What inserts do you like and why?

[trlvn]

@Susquatch : I have plans coming from England to build this:

View attachment 24753

I will be taking the left hand unit you show and chopping it up for use as the mounting arrangement and re-purposing the wheels for the unit itself. I also have a couple sets of straight wheels that will go into play. I will, of course, be posting the results of this build.

It is a Hemingway Kits model. - I just ordered the plans - not the materials

Hi Brent:

I'm curious if you looked at Doug Gray's plans/kit:

Heavy Duty Knurling Tool Drawings Only

Heavy Duty Knurling Tool Kit Drawings Only The drawings only version of this product is a pdf digital download of the complete 16 page drawing package that include building notes and full scale templates of the plates. An immediate digital download so no waiting or postage. Fantastic...

d-gray-drafting-and-design.myshopify.com

If you compared them, what led you to choose the Hemingway?

Craig

 

[Susquatch]

@Susquatch I wonder if you had a parting tool holder like this it would make parting with HSS blades more fun? I've used them on several machines and even on my light Myford it gives good results unless I try to do something dumb.

The holders you show don't look like they provide as secure/rigid/support on the parting blade letting it or the holder flex and nothing good comes from that, just ask me....

View attachment 24774

Yes, I have one just like that. I just didn't show it. And yes, it cuts a bit better than most. But not as good as upside down.

I will be honest. Much as I like HSS, I don't think I will ever part with anything but a Carbide Insert again. That one I showed first up in my list is just amazing. I am not afraid to take the good where I find it even if it is different than what I always used to do.

That said, one of my future projects is to make a parting tool holder that Bolts right to my compound just like the tool post. I need something that will part 6" diameter stock and carbide ain't gunna cut it. The alternative is a band saw of course but I have not figured out how to do the sequence. Anyway, that's a project for the future

 

[Brent H]

@trlvn and @Susquatch: I chose the Hemingway (which is a copy of the Marlco brand). The original was capable of knurling up to 4 or 6" depending how large you wanted to go. The New version is scaled back to about 2-5/16" max diameter.

You will note the lever on the side - this was part of my decision. The lever operates a cam that engages or disengages the tool. Basically use the lever to start and stop the knurl and also to increase the cut. I have two of the Shite "press into the work ones" and therefore I have a couple sets of knurling wheels. I also have wheels for making straight knurls so I am hoping to adapt that into the works - maybe even make 2 knurlers?

The Hemingway one also represents more of a challenge to machine and that adds a bit more interest to making it. There is an 8 part video series on a gentleman making his. (youtube) You can buy the kit with the steel all included - Like 45 Pounds ish plus shipping. The drawings were 16.5 pounds and 10 to ship - not cheap, but I figured it was worth a go - they mail you the drawings, I guess to keep it all on the up and up.

 

[Susquatch]

Susquatch Adventures Page 5 - Boring bars.

So this is another area where I have come to love Carbide Inserts. In fact, with very few exceptions I seldom use HSS boring bars. One exception is the one above in HSS Turning. There are a few others.

The other thing about boring bars that breaks the pattern is that I actually do like the kits they sell.

Here is my favorite. Note how well used the bars all are as well as the fact that I use them enough to dedicate a tool holder to them. One is missing because I loaned it to a friend.



I have two other bars I really like. Both are tiny little things for boring small holes. This one is for 1/4 inch. I have an even smaller one for 0.2160 inch but like so many teeny tiny things, I couldn't find it for this post. It is solid carbide with no insert.

Edit - found it - photo added below.






So ya, carbide insert boring bars are wonderful things AND in the case of boring bars, IMHO buying a set is a good economical way to get them. For boring bars, a set makes sense for lots of practical reasons IMHO.

 

[Susquatch]

Susquatch Adventures Page 6 - threading.

First a confession, I LOVE THREADING. I don't even mind change gears to do it.

Second, another confession. I like using the 29.5 degree method.

Third, I have not yet tried a modern triangular insert to do it. I'd especially like to try one with a chip breaker.

I do use Carbide Inserts in the form of a Mesa Tool. It has both outside and inside threading inserts. Its a great tool, but not my favorite.



My favorite is actually a HSS insert tool by A R Warner. Yes, you read that correctly. It is a HSS Insert. It's sort of like the Mesa in that it is double ended. But the magic is that the inserts are HSS. Apparently, AR Warner is hard to reach right now. I don't know why. It's a small family business so who knows what tragedy has befallen them. I bought my first one from Brownells sold under their own Brownells brand, but it's an Arthur Warner. You can get replacement inserts from Brownells too. Like the Mesa, the Warner is double ended for inside and outside threading. But its a bit longer and fits a tool holder better. It's also a trigon style insert with three usable points. And because it is HSS, it can be sharpened - albeit very carefully.




I left this tool for the very last for a reason. It is my all-time most favorite turning tool of all. If something has happened to AR Warner and the tool disappears, I will feel like I lost a good friend.

 

[Susquatch]

@Susquatch : I have plans coming from England to build this:

View attachment 24753

I will be taking the left hand unit you show and chopping it up for use as the mounting arrangement and re-purposing the wheels for the unit itself. I also have a couple sets of straight wheels that will go into play. I will, of course, be posting the results of this build.

It is a Hemingway Kits model. - I just ordered the plans - not the materials

I LOVE the idea of turning my expensive piece of junk into something gorgeous, useful, and functional like this.

 

[thestelster]

A carbide insert for cutting steel with a minimum depth of cut of .015 or .025" isn't much use to me. So there's no way around that 'info' problem, other than asking other folks with low power and non-rigid machines (I won't use 'hobbyist' around here any more... ) what works for them in cutting a variety of materials.

Hi @VicHobbyGuy you might not have to take that large of a cut. If you look at the photo below, the blue area of the graph represents the working parameters of that insert. So you could, theoretically take a .005" depth of cut at .006 in/rev feed.

 

[Susquatch]

Hi @VicHobbyGuy you might not have to take that large of a cut. If you look at the photo below, the blue area of the graph represents the working parameters of that insert. So you could, theoretically take a .005" depth of cut at .006 in/rev feed.

This is interesting to me @thestelster . I had not noticed any inserts that could run that shallow. I especially noticed that they actually call this insert a finishing insert.

I wonder if this insert will fit the two (left & right) CCMT holders in that useless kit of mine? If so, I'd be willing to give them a try. Not sure I feel inclined to buy new holders though......

I confess I still don't like the fact that they are not designed to take a smaller cut than 2 thou. I never did like taking a finishing pass over a thou. I like to sneak up on the desired dimension. That said, maybe @Dabbler s trick of honing inserts might make that possible.

As always, I am not too old to learn new tricks.

 

[Hacker]

My approach is to use a consistent seller on Aliexpress, and look up the grades (of which there are usually only 3-5) for what they are suitable for. That is why I linked to https://www.machiningdoctor.com/grades/.

My tool holders are all 12x12, and are either CCMT06 or VCMT with some MGN200 for grooving/parting. By focusing on a few, I can afford to buy inserts for different materials, label the package and will soon add a SFM chart to each.

My threading inserts are all ER/IR11 A at present, with some AG 16's on the way (with new holders to match).
This is for a 1022 lathe, solid toolpost.

I take deep cuts with carbide but not production level hogging. But I will admit to tripping the current overload on the input contactor at times.

For special jobs I regrind the relief for sharper edges and to shrink the tip radius. Working with <1mm diameter items requires a few diversions from standard.

My present fav source for the inserts is https://www.aliexpress.com/store/911783152, very predictable quality and brand name.

gerrit

I use mostly carbide inserts and for profiles carbide brazed tools. My lathe came with a set of indexable tools and I was given a big box of use brazed inserts so I have stuck with that.
I find that I don't go through a lot inserts in the lathe but I manage to bugger up inserts on the mill as I am not very proficient with it yet. Part of the learning curve and the cost of education.
I was buying my inserts from a supplier on Alibaba but they disappeared this winter so I have been looking around and will definitely check out your link. I am assuming they are real Sandvik/Mitsubishi and not knockoffs that many resellers seem to sell?
I do agree with Brent on how difficult it is trying to sort out carbide inserts. If I hadn't already had the tooling I would have gone with tool steel and brazed carbide.

 

[Susquatch]

So there's no way around that 'info' problem, other than asking other folks with low power and non-rigid machines (I won't use 'hobbyist' around here any more... ) what works for them in cutting a variety of materials.

@VicHobbyGuy - I did a very informal assessment on my own of the members of the forum based on their usage of the forum and my impression of them as hobbiests or practicing machinists. There is a lot of water between those two bridges. But anyway, IMHO we really are mostly hobbiests. Even if you put a few members with other related professions in the pro group (which they might not agree with), I think it's a slam dunk that hobbiests dominate by a wide margin.

Of course, the definition of hobbiest could easily change that.

Looking in the mirror, I am retired but farming now. I got into machining to support my hobbies before I retired. But I didn't machine for a living then and don't now. Today, I do less machining to repair and modify farm machinery than I do to have pure fun in my shop, but even if not, nobody pays me to do that. And besides, even farming and machine repair is really about making my life richer and keeping me busy. There are a few members on here who are older than me, but I am mid-seventies so I'm old by any measure you want to use. I don't want to sit on a couch, watch tv, and die. So I fiddleFk with my machines, make tools for my tools, pursue my curiosity, help other members on the forum and get helped in return, and repair and modify farm machinery too.

So, in my heart of hearts, I am a hobbiest. What would you call me? Be careful how you answer that! LMAO!

Nonetheless, it's still a very good question. What do you think about starting a special thread with a survey and ask the active membership to self designate themselves?

Here is a screenshot of a proposed survey. What do you think? Is it worth doing? If so, can you suggest any improvements?

 

[VicHobbyGuy]

Nonetheless, it's still a very good question. What do you think about starting a special thread with a survey and ask the active membership to self designate themselves?

Here is a screenshot of a proposed survey. What do you think? Is it worth doing? If so, can you suggest any improvements?

Well, Jay Leno would call collecting cars a hobby, too.
Perhaps a poll asking what it would cost to replace one's current shop equipment items (mills, shapers, lathes, drill presses, welding gear and all the tooling and supplies including meaasuring tools and materials and fasteners inventory) that support the 'hobby' would produce interesting reaults. From what I read here, $50k and up would be typical. That said, I'm in the 'burn that receipt before the CFO finds it' group, so don't expect an honest answer from me!

 

[VicHobbyGuy]

I confess I still don't like the fact that they are not designed to take a smaller cut than 2 thou. I never did like taking a finishing pass over a thou. I like to sneak up on the desired dimension. That said, maybe @Dabbler s trick of honing inserts might make that possible.

As always, I am not too old to learn new tricks.

Me, too. I liked @Dabbler's suggestion. But for me the whole point of insert tooling is to not bother with sharpening. Taking off enough carbide to get rid of that rounded cutting edge, by hand on my diamond plate, just seems like work.

 

[Dabbler]

Taking off enough carbide to get rid of that rounded cutting edge, by hand on my diamond plate, just seems like work.

My thought is when the carbide tooling has done some time and the cutting pressure increases a little, One or 2 swipes with a diamond hone and they are like new again. The trick is to not take much off, and make it as effortless as possible. My hone is in a drawer right by the headstock of my 12X37 just for this purpose.

I'm not advocating buying a cheap insert and rejigging them. That is not worth the effort.

 

[Susquatch]

Well, Jay Leno would call collecting cars a hobby, too.
Perhaps a poll asking what it would cost to replace one's current shop equipment items (mills, shapers, lathes, drill presses, welding gear and all the tooling and supplies including meaasuring tools and materials and fasteners inventory) that support the 'hobby' would produce interesting reaults. From what I read here, $50k and up would be typical. That said, I'm in the 'burn that receipt before the CFO finds it' group, so don't expect an honest answer from me!

Thank you for that comment. It helped me see the flaw in my thinking. I don't think how much money one has invested in their hobby is a meaningful qualification. In fact, I even think Jay Leno is indeed a hobbyist.

I found this dictionary definition (the same across many dictionaries) to be most compelling: A hobbyist, is “a person engaged in activities, in their spare time, that bring them pleasure.” No place did any definition I found speak to money or even being paid.

I also found this rather elegant and comprehensive on-line discussion about the difference between pros and hobbyists. It seems that you and I are not the only people interested in the issue.

What's the Difference Between a Hobbyist and a Professional? | Developer.com

In the Indianapolis market, I'm involved in a number of user groups, both formally and informally. Occasionally, we enter into discussions about what the

www.developer.com

When the dust in my mind settled (lots of that in there), I decided to delete my proposed survey and move on. I think doing the survey would be divisive (us & them) and personally, I would rather be inclusive (all of us). If someone enjoys our hobby and is willing to give their time to help others, then I am simply grateful - I really don't care what their resources are. So I have no problem calling the vast majority of us hobbyists on here. But that doesn't mean I'm gunna run out and buy $200 inserts. In my dusty old mind, we can and do all have different value propositions that each of us needs to decide on our own based on our individual needs, budgets, and enjoyment. I guess I would also add that I think it's really great to get a wide range of advice to help me make those decisions - especially if it might be expensive!

 

[Brent H]

@Susquatch : I wouldn't consider anyone a true "professional" at anything but rather a student of whatever passion they are pursuing. You could argue that: say your "profession" is that of a Doctor. Do you know all about being a doctor - no, so you are in a medical "practice". Same with any other type of work, sport etc. Some folks focus in on particular aspects of a profession and would be considered "Experts" by their peers in those particular aspects of the profession.

I would say the same for anyone on here that is working with various types of metal working. Considering all the ways you can shape and form and bond things - crazy! We are delving into the "profession of metal working" as students and perhaps experts in some areas. You can call it a hobby, a passion, an interest or in some cases a need or desire, an aspiration, a goal, an investment, a money pit -- LOL

 

[VicHobbyGuy]

I didn't express my thoughts very clearly, sorry about that.
Anyway, back on topic..sorry about that sidetrack....

Yesterday I was boring a small hole in a bronze workpiece on the lathe and thought I would use one of the 'aluminum' inserts in the boring bar in place of the 'steel' type. I couldn't get the boring bar to fit the hole with the aluminum insert attached. With the cutting tip on center, the bottom of the bar was hitting the work. The aluminum inserts have an 'upsweep' at the tip which means that their effective thickness is greater. So that's something to consider, for me. I'll get some insert codes and perhaps a pic later to show what I mean.

 

[Dabbler]

@VicHobbyGuy When I machine soft materials that can gaul, such as soft brass or some bronzes, I modify the twist drill or lathe tool to provide neutral rake. A positive rake tool will 'bite' into the work. This will cause problems hitting my dimension, poor finish and other unpleasant things.

Most aluminum inserts have a positive rake, but for brass and copper I'd use a cheap braze-on, HSS, or hone an aluminum insert tip to be neutral or slightly negative rake.

 

[Susquatch]

Yesterday I was boring a small hole in a bronze workpiece on the lathe and thought I would use one of the 'aluminum' inserts in the boring bar in place of the 'steel' type. I couldn't get the boring bar to fit the hole with the aluminum insert attached. With the cutting tip on center, the bottom of the bar was hitting the work. The aluminum inserts have an 'upsweep' at the tip which means that their effective thickness is greater. So that's something to consider, for me. I'll get some insert codes and perhaps a pic later to show what I mean.

Most boring bars have a minimum ID Dimension for holes they can bore. And yes, some inserts increase that minimum dimension.

I have often ground away the bottom of a bar to get the required clearance. For a home ground bar it's no big deal. But it hurts a bit when you paid good money for the the bar.

 

[Susquatch]

anyone a true "professional" at anything but rather a student of whatever passion they are pursuing. You could argue that: say your "profession" is that of a Doctor. Do you know all about being a doctor - no, so you are in a medical "practice". Same with any other type of work, sport etc. Some folks focus in on particular aspects of a profession and would be considered "Experts" by their peers in those particular aspects of the profession.

I always used to think that professionals were those who were licensed to practice in their profession.

But the older I get the wider that definition gets...... Today, I think most people think anyone paid to do whatever they do is a professional.

Sheesh.

 

[DPittman]

Today, I think most people think anyone paid to do whatever they do is a professional.

In my world and experience, the fact that one gets paid for the "work" they do definitely does not make one a "professional. Just saying.