What inserts do you like and why?

[little ol' e]

@PeterT,

IMO, these companies that produce these catalogues with a high degree of technical references regarding " Optimal cutting conditions", with emphasis on tool life in many different types of materials both soft and hard, is just ridiculous.

Some, well most of what is printed, really doesn't make sense in my experience with indexable tooling, and the way I would machine something.
Having said that, this is only my opinion along with others that I have trained over the years... Hmmm, that could be a bad thing eh!

Like I mentioned before, you can get technical to a high degree on paper and with images, but in reality, it just doesn't make sense to me.
For the machining I do, I can always make something work as most of us can and do.

If you have good luck with machining .001 with indexable inserts with your machines and tooling, then that's great its working for you.
For me, that is grinding/skating as some would say at that point, wearing an insert quickly for no reason, it isn't machining.

Respectfully,
Eric

 

[Former Member]

@PeterT,

IMO, these companies that produce these catalogues with a high degree of technical references regarding " Optimal cutting conditions", with emphasis on tool life in many different types of materials both soft and hard, is just ridiculous.

Some, well most of what is printed, really doesn't make sense in my experience with indexable tooling, and the way I would machine something.
Having said that, this is only my opinion along with others that I have trained over the years... Hmmm, that could be a bad thing eh!

Like I mentioned before, you can get technical to a high degree on paper and with images, but in reality, it just doesn't make sense to me.
For the machining I do, I can always make something work as most of us can and do.

If you have good luck with machining .001 with indexable inserts with your machines and tooling, then that's great its working for you.
For me, that is grinding/skating as some would say at that point, wearing an insert quickly for no reason, it isn't machining.

Respectfully,
Eric

The companies produce these guides so their products perform if someone follows them.

However what they don't tell you is how to maximize performance. This takes experimentation to achieve the best results.

Good example is watching some of Titan of CNC on how he pushes tooling well beyond the published limits while maintain results and life of tooling.

Think of the publications as the starting point, the rest is up to you on how far you can take it.

 

[Susquatch]

@DPittman - I think you were right.

A farming neighbour dropped these off this morning for me. I've done a few repairs for him so it's a bit of a thank you. They would have hit the scrap yard for peanuts otherwise.

Very typical of the majority of my stock. This haul is all 7/8ths and 3/4. Most are fine thread which suggests harder steel. I like the long shanks cuz I can do more with them.

Lots of really cool projects hiding inside those old bolts!

But ya, gunna be hard on cheap inserts.

 

[little ol' e]

The companies produce these guides so their products perform if someone follows them.

Ok, fair nuff;

If a tool guy comes into your shop, says he has the latest and greatest inserts for what your machining. The conversation leads to him viewing your 4 sided indexable inserts both roughing and finishing. ( forget milling or turning here, just talking inserts)
Then he suggests an 8 sided insert for just a few dollars more, explaining the 4x more cutting edges saving you money in the long run for just a few dollars more each... Adding about $30 to a box of 10... along with the possibility of a new holder as well.
Would you buy them?

How about a finishing insert,
Capable of machining a pass at .001 in mutliple grades for multiple applications... Lets just throw Korloy, Seco and Kyocera brands into the mix here since it appears most are looking in that direction here. Heck, lets throw all the Aliexpress offerings into the mix as well.
Would you buy those inserts given your machining experience and background of using indexable inserts as often as you do ?

1 final question,
With what I mentioned above, even if the inserts do perform as they say out of the box... do you feel as thou these descriptions are geared for CNC machinists, manual machinists or both alike?

Too all the experienced machinists here,
PLEASE, add your comments if you have been holding back in this thread to help others just getting started using indexable tooling with manual machines.

Thanks,
Eric

 

[PeterT]

@PeterT,
If you have good luck with machining .001 with indexable inserts with your machines and tooling, then that's great its working for you.
For me, that is grinding/skating as some would say at that point, wearing an insert quickly for no reason, it isn't machining.

I got thinking about my radial engine project. I used a HSS (for turning) exactly twice - a boring bar tool to recess the crankcase ID & parting blade outside the range of my carbide. My lathe is a '97 Taiwan 14x40, nothing special. Most turning tolerances are within a thou, many tighter. I literally could count months before an insert was swapped due to wear or chip. Other hobbyist hobby projects may be a completely different combination of materials & machines, so their results may well vary. I also recognize some mind blowing model engineer projects & tooling were done entirely with HSS back in the day. However, that was when HSS was ubiquitous, abundant, cheap, higher quality and generally corresponded with the toolholders of the era. Anyway, time for me to bow out of this discussion. I think it ran its course.

 

[little ol' e]

Anyway, time for me to bow out of this discussion. I think it ran its course.

X2
All the best guys !

 

[Former Member]

Ok, fair nuff;

If a tool guy comes into your shop, says he has the latest and greatest inserts for what your machining. The conversation leads to him viewing your 4 sided indexable inserts both roughing and finishing. ( forget milling or turning here, just talking inserts)
Then he suggests an 8 sided insert for just a few dollars more, explaining the 4x more cutting edges saving you money in the long run for just a few dollars more each... Adding about $30 to a box of 10... along with the possibility of a new holder as well.
Would you buy them?

How about a finishing insert,
Capable of machining a pass at .001 in mutliple grades for multiple applications... Lets just throw Korloy, Seco and Kyocera brands into the mix here since it appears most are looking in that direction here. Heck, lets throw all the Aliexpress offerings into the mix as well.
Would you buy those inserts given your machining experience and background of using indexable inserts as often as you do ?

1 final question,
With what I mentioned above, even if the inserts do perform as they say out of the box... do you feel as thou these descriptions are geared for CNC machinists, manual machinists or both alike?

Too all the experienced machinists here,
PLEASE, add your comments if you have been holding back in this thread to help others just getting started using indexable tooling with manual machines.

Thanks,
Eric

All of these valid questions, I change and experiment to get the results I need. I tend to stick to reputable sources, as I have a repeatability if it works factor.

Difference between manual vs CNC is CNC shows up the faults and benefits faster, but the suggestions that apply to one apply to the other. So in short if it works stick with it, if it does start experimenting to get the results you desire, follow a methodology that works for you.

This isn't rocket science that you are making it out to be.

 

[little ol' e]

This isn't rocket science that you are making it out to be.

You are absolutely correct with this statement.
That is why I suggested a mid grade substrate with a decent coating, without making things complicated. Due diligence plays a roll in any that are interested, taking in information along with misinformation to reach a decision, then ask questions.

PeterT for example, needs more concrete facts as to why things look and appear the way they do in catalogues... Not enough hours in the day to even begin a conversation like that unless you have a good start point.

HSS, carbide blanks and cheap inserts certainly are a good start point, but no where near the advanced coatings and substrates used today.
The inserts of " Yesterday " with TIALN coatings and such are a good alternative to a 1 up head start into machining quicker, with instant results rather than grinding cutters that just don't really perform that well these days due to the lower percentages of cobalt added, especially with the cheaper stuff as I mentioned earlier in this thread.
What cobalt content does Aliexpress HSS cutters have? Maybe 2%... I dunno, I never used bought or tried it. But it works so that's great news.

But I spoke prematurely on many things I posted, I really need to learn more about coatings and substrates with inserts as someone suggested in an earlier post, perhaps ?

Certainly not rocket science, but, I may have to learn/know how to index and set a tool properly to make this happen as you suggested earlier in a post.

Point blank ;
Im not a payed member like many here, my considerations for that have not been established yet....

Now having said that, I don't plan on dragging a bag behind my tool cart here, picking up all the ruffled feathers on the floor after posting. I'm not here to sugar coat things either,,,, nor spew uninformative information, waisting my time and others here.
I could find much better things to do with the limited time I do have.

I can say... Hey guys " Just keep doing what you been doing since its been working. Cool,

Now if I wanted to ask if anyone here would be accepting any RFQ's in the new year for smaller parts, up to say between 2- 50 parts per run, I'm not sure that your KISS approach would hit the numbers I'd be looking for.

Is their money in this type of work, I dunno, I haven't reached that level yet... obviously
Do I know what I'm talking about?
Perhaps someday you will figure it out....

All the best Degen!
Eric

 

[little ol' e]

My last post here,

I use mainly OSG carbide coated drills.
When I send them out for regrind ,
I request TIAlN coating upon return.

Why, I dunno... but it says it on the packaging when I receive them back.

Oh, haha, you know the best part... I think my wife loves these drills too.
Cuz, she can walk around the place in some pretty nice clothing packin' an nice bag with the matching heals...

 

[johnnielsen]

Perfect John! Exactly what I have been after! Especially the versatility of turn, face, and plunge. I've liked off shore Trigons for turning and facing, but they won't plunge - at least not on my machine. If I could find a good tool and inserts that would be versatile, last long enough to be cost effective, forgiving of my many mistakes, and leave a decent finish behind that isn't embarrassing, I'd be a very happy camper. In fact, I'd even settle for a bad finish that needs cleaning up with another tool.

I don't suppose you have a recommended tool part number for them? Or do you think that is important?

Finally feeling well enough so went to the shop to identify my DNMG toolholder. Here are a couple of pics.

 

[Susquatch]

Finally feeling well enough so went shop to identify my DNMG toolholder. Here are a couple of pics.

Thanks John.