# Peerless Shaper Basement Install



## YYCHM (Apr 15, 2021)

Well.... the Gingery shaper just wet my appetite for something a little better so...






Monday, I acquired this 8" Peerless shaper from @RobinHood (Thanks Rudy).  Looks innocent enough doesn't it.  It's NOT, it's heavier than all get out.  This is the conclusion after offloading it from the truck and moving it into the basement with the help of a neighbour.  Bumping it down the basement stairwell on a hand cart was rather unnerving.






The table, motor, drive pulley and belt guard.  Almost everything is CI as far as I can tell.  Maybe not the belt guard.






This is the motor mount that is cantilevered off the back of the machine.  With this installed the whole thing is 40" long.  It's not wide but it's long.






I was hoping to mount the machine on this tool stand with the stand sitting on tri-castors so that I could push it out of the way when not in use.  I'm having my doubts about that arrangement now.  Thoughts?

I'm thinking now, I'll have to arrange to get a engine hoist into the basement in order to spot the machine onto any stand.  A dead lift would require at least 4 people I'm sure.


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## David_R8 (Apr 15, 2021)

Well done. You’re clearly afflicted with the rare infectious disease called anothershaperitis.


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## YotaBota (Apr 15, 2021)

Nice find, or did it find you?. What stand did RobinHood have it mounted on? It looks like it will need something more substantial than what you're showing.


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## YYCHM (Apr 15, 2021)

YotaBota said:


> Nice find, or did it find you?. What stand did RobinHood have it mounted on? It looks like it will need something more substantial than what you're showing.








Heavy Heavy wooden cabinet 10" wide X 39" long X 3' tall.  Rudy had it on 4"(?) castors so that he could move it around his shop.  That arrangement was too tall for me, but I need to have it on castors as well.  Can't decide if I should use this cabinet or not, maybe.

I still need to rescue that magic switch.  The whole cabinet would appear to have been built around the switch LOL.  I think I'm going to have to cut it out if it comes to that.


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## YotaBota (Apr 15, 2021)

How much would you need to cut it down? A circular saw and a straight edge should do the trick.


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## YYCHM (Apr 15, 2021)

YotaBota said:


> How much would you need to cut it down? A circular saw and a straight edge should do the trick.



Tomorrow I'll take a pic of the bottom, it's not like anything you have seen before!  A circular saw won't do it, it's solid and 10" wide.  A chainsaw perhaps but that would be pretty nasty.

Hmmmm….. Just dawned on me...…  Maybe castors mounted on out riggers attached to the front and back would allow for the cabinet to be as low as possible and provide lateral stability.  Lockable castors would be a bonus.  These tri-castors don't lock.


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## Hruul (Apr 15, 2021)

Nice shaper Craig.  Maybe you already know but, some of the castors at princess auto have a double lock.   When you lock them, they lock the wheel rolling and also turning.  They have a toothed ring inside near the mount.  I use them on all my woodworking tools and I had 5" ones on a wood cart that I had.


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## Mcgyver (Apr 16, 2021)

Thats a solid looking shaper and great size.  Just my opinion but I'd want a more substantial stand sans casters.....there's a fair bit of weight being tossed back and forth.  Did the casters work ok at the previous installation?


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## DPittman (Apr 16, 2021)

Good for you. Your basement must be getting full. LOL


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## YYCHM (Apr 16, 2021)

Mcgyver said:


> Thats a solid looking shaper and great size.  Just my opinion but I'd want a more substantial stand sans casters.....there's a fair bit of weight being tossed back and forth.  Did the casters work ok at the previous installation?



Will need for @RobinHood to comment as to how long it's been on castors.  When we ran it on Monday, it seemed quite stable and I didn't notice any walking or rocking.  The castors on it weren't the locking type.  I'd go with the arrangement if it hadn't been so tall.  Not being able to swing the machine in and out of it's niche is not an option for me, I'm right out of room in my tiny basement shop area.


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## RobinHood (Apr 16, 2021)

Yes, it worked very well with the casters on. It seemed to “absorb” the inertia of the ram by moving axially just a bit at the end of the stroke in both directions.

I would never leave it unattended in that configuration, however, as it was a very tall, potentially unstable arrangement. Especially if it were to tip sideways.

The only reason for me having it on casters was the requirement for mobility - things were very tight in my old garage shop.


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## YYCHM (Apr 16, 2021)

YotaBota said:


> How much would you need to cut it down? A circular saw and a straight edge should do the trick.



Here is a pic of the bottom of the cabinet...






You might be able to cut it down an inch or two with a skill saw and finish with a hand saw.  That thing is crazy heavy for some reason.  A real struggle to move around.


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## YYCHM (Apr 16, 2021)

RobinHood said:


> Yes, it worked very well with the casters on. It seemed to “absorb” the inertia of the ram by moving axially just a bit at the end of the stroke in both directions.
> 
> I would never leave it unattended in that configuration, however, as it was a very tall, potentially unstable arrangement. Especially if it were to tip sideways.
> 
> The only reason for me having it on casters was the requirement for mobility - things were very tight in my old garage shop.



Rudy, how much height did that castor set you had on it raise it?  Are they 4" wheels?


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## Hruul (Apr 16, 2021)

Well you were not kidding when you said it was solid.  Someone went to extra work to do all those joints so it would not come apart easy.


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## RobinHood (Apr 16, 2021)

Yes, 4” swivelling castor wheels, rated for 250# each, mounted onto 2x6s. Total height gain was 6.625”.


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## Dusty (Apr 16, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> Here is a pic of the bottom of the cabinet...
> 
> View attachment 14234
> 
> You might be able to cut it down an inch or two with a skill saw and finish with a hand saw.  That thing is crazy heavy for some reason.  A real struggle to move around.



Craig, simply remove several of your gold bricks and it won't be as heavy.  LOL

Removing a couple of inches appears doable from your photo and as Robinhood mentions one remains close to the machine while operating.  All of my shop gear is on castors so I can put the car in our single garage. As @Hruul mentioned PA locking castors work for me. Good luck!


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## YYCHM (Apr 16, 2021)

RobinHood said:


> Yes, 4” swivelling castor wheels, rated for 250# each, mounted onto 2x6s. Total height gain was 6.625”.



That doesn't sound right?  They seemed to be mounted on aluminium L brackets and screwed to the cabinet with three screws.


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## RobinHood (Apr 16, 2021)

The L-brackets were sitting atop of the 2x6s to hold the whole castor assembly to the cabinet front and back walls at the base. I took advantage of the massive joinery you can see in your picture for stability and strength.


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## kevin.decelles (Apr 16, 2021)

Hruul said:


> Well you were not kidding when you said it was solid. Someone went to extra work to do all those joints so it would not come apart easy.



LOL, might have been simpler to make it solid by gluing 2x4s together and carving out the slot for the wire!   I like the attention to detail.


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## Mcgyver (Apr 16, 2021)

RobinHood said:


> Yes, it worked very well with the casters on. It seemed to “absorb” the inertia of the ram by .



good stuff.  My remark was more a 'thought' than practical experience, I've not had one go for dance on casters .  I did have a little Atlas7 for awhile but never tried it on casters.  I do really like that shaper, being 8" its going to be I'd think a little beefer and capable than the Atlas I had but still managemable in a crowded shop (I'm in that boat as well.....crowded enought that that shaper wouldn't fit at the moment)


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## Rotaxxx (Apr 16, 2021)

Is that the original stand for the shaper? I cant imagine it would be, but I have heard weirder things too lol. If it is I would be leary of cutting it down, I am weird like that and like to keep stuff original! If its not cut cut cut lol.


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## YYCHM (Apr 16, 2021)

Rotaxxx said:


> Is that the original stand for the shaper? I cant imagine it would be, but I have heard weirder things too lol. If it is I would be leary of cutting it down, I am weird like that and like to keep stuff original! If its not cut cut cut lol.



I highly doubt it's original.


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## YYCHM (Apr 16, 2021)

RobinHood said:


> Yes, 4” swivelling castor wheels, rated for 250# each, mounted onto 2x6s. Total height gain was 6.625”.



Could you please post an image, I totally don't recollect the 2X6 part.  If it raised the cabinet 6" then no wonder I found it too high.  I felt like I was looking up to the machine LOL.


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## RobinHood (Apr 16, 2021)

Here is a picture of how I had the casters mounted to 2x6s and they in turn were mounted to the cabinet via the aluminum angle brackets.

Besides the need for mobility, the 2x6s gave me the chance to widen the stance of the cabinet to reduce the sideways tipping-over possibility.


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## YYCHM (Apr 16, 2021)

RobinHood said:


> Here is a picture of how I had the casters mounted to 2x6s and they in turn were mounted to the cabinet via the aluminum angle brackets.
> 
> Besides the need for mobility, the 2x6s gave me the chance to widen the stance of the cabinet to reduce the sideways tipping-over possibility.
> 
> View attachment 14238



That's what I envisioned when I said out riggers.  Man my brain must have been somewhere else when I took that off not to remember the 2X6's.

This wood cabinet has me scratching my head.  How can something made of wood, essentially hollow (sort of), 10" wide X 39" long X 36" high weigh in at 140lbs


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## YYCHM (Apr 16, 2021)

I think I'll go have a look at this tomorrow.....

https://www.homedepot.ca/product/hu...h-with-solid-wood-top-in-all-black/1001586701

It's the perfect size for my niche, rated for 1500#, is on castors, and has storage below (which I desperately need).  I'd prefer shelves rather than drawers but....

I'm thinking this is not the project to skimp on.  Jury rigging the wood cabinet could be iffy and I'm convinced now my tool stand isn't up to the task.

A bench failure would be a real PITA...


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## YYCHM (Apr 16, 2021)

@kevin.decelles Could you please post some images of the bench you got with your Southbend shaper?

@CalgaryPT may be willing to take on a project on for me.

Thanks,

Craig


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## Dusty (Apr 16, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> @kevin.decelles Could you please post some images of the bench you got with your Southbend shaper?
> 
> @CalgaryPT may be willing to take on a project on for me.
> 
> ...



Wise move Craig shop safety must be paramount at all times. Adding out riggers is smart that's what I've done and it works well with locking castors.


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## YotaBota (Apr 16, 2021)

I've got the 9 drawer version under my SM9" and it has worked out very well. You will love the storage for tooling, everything can be right at you finger tips. 
You could quite easily replace a couple of drawers with plywood shelves and use the drawer slides as well The slides save having to crawl inside the cabinet for stuff at the back.
The only thing I didn't like was the wheels are mounted to the thin sheet metal bottom, that introduced a lot of flex and made the cabinet a bit wobbly. Not dangerously wobbly just annoyingly (for me) wobbly. I made a new base frame with 1.5 x 3 tubing and that made a big difference. I drilled and tapped new holes to mount the wheels and the tubing also let me mount leveling feet.


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## YotaBota (Apr 16, 2021)

I found a picture of what appears to be a stand for your machine.


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## Mcgyver (Apr 17, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> I'm thinking this is not the project to skimp on.  Jury rigging the wood cabinet could be iffy and I'm convinced now my tool stand isn't up to the task.
> 
> A bench failure would be a real PITA...



for sure.  If you're idea hunting, have you welding equipment?   Steel is relative cheap and rather strong.  You could also use wheels for moving - put two on back and use something like this (https://www.northerntool.com/images/product/2000x2000/524/52423_2000x2000.jpg) on the front ....but make so it has a mating pin and plate so it stays put when moving it


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## francist (Apr 17, 2021)

YotaBota said:


> found a picture of what appears to be a stand for your machine.


Yes, it is. That’s my stand on the sidewalk when I brought home the machine.


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## YotaBota (Apr 17, 2021)

francist said:


> Yes, it is. That’s my stand on the sidewalk when I brought home the machine.


I was wondering if it was yours. How is it working out for you?


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## YYCHM (Apr 17, 2021)

francist said:


> Yes, it is. That’s my stand on the sidewalk when I brought home the machine.










Sweet arrangement.   The motor is buried in the stand, and Frank has belted the ram strokes per min down even further and added a front dashboard to house a strokes per minute indicator and clutch lever.


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## YotaBota (Apr 17, 2021)

YYC - did you get to HD and have a look at the cabinet?


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## YYCHM (Apr 17, 2021)

YotaBota said:


> YYC - did you get to HD and have a look at the cabinet?



Ya, wasn't all that impressed.  Seemed a little wobbly but that may have been the floor?  That wobble will probably diminish significantly once you punk a 200+ lb machine on it.  They had a $600 version there and you could really tell the difference.  Mind you it weighted 3 times as much empty.

Don't know what to do now.  Have something fabricated perhaps?


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## Dusty (Apr 17, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> Ya, wasn't all that impressed.  Seemed a little wobbly but that may have been the floor?  That wobble will probably diminish significantly once you punk a 200+ lb machine on it.  They had a $600 version there and you could really tell the difference.  Mind you it weighted 3 times as much empty.
> 
> Don't know what to do now.  Have something fabricated perhaps?



Yes Craig have the stand fabricated from steel to your liking with locking castors, you won't regret doing that.


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## francist (Apr 17, 2021)

YotaBota said:


> I was wondering if it was yours. How is it working out for you?


It’s working well. When I first got it (2014 ish) I had no milling capabilities so it was my go-to machine for lots of things. I have since acquired a small miller and they are usually quicker for generic operations so the shaper doesn’t get used as much anymore. But, I still turn to it for large area surfacing and stuff like that. It’s also really nice for indexing operations like dial graduations, etc. Cutters are cheap too, and they last a long time.


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## YYCHM (Apr 17, 2021)

YotaBota said:


> I made a new base frame with 1.5 x 3 tubing and that made a big difference. I drilled and tapped new holes to mount the wheels and the tubing also let me mount leveling feet.



Can you explain this in more detail please?  I can't picture what 1.5 X 3 tubing is.  How does the tubing interface to the cabinet?

Thanks,

Craig


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## YotaBota (Apr 17, 2021)

The tubing is 1.5  inches high by 3 inches wide (see picture)
I turned the cabinet upside down and cut/welded the tubing into a rectangular frame to fit inside the edges of the cabinet. Then drilled and tapped the holes to mount the 3" cast wheels and added 1.250 tubing cross bars to mount the leveling legs. The frame and wheels added extra cost but for me it was worth it.


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## YYCHM (Apr 18, 2021)

Well.... using PA prices for channel and angle which are probably outrageous a 40" long X 20" wide X 30" high stand with one shelf could be fabricated for less than $200.  Just not sure bolting it together would suffice.  Also, attaching casters to the ends of c-channel has me scratching my head.

I got a mig welder just for making these kinds of projects it's too bad I don't trust my welds.  Maybe bolt it together and attempt to weld the seams?


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## Chicken lights (Apr 18, 2021)

Thats one design and eliminates needing to make a bracket for casters. If you don’t trust your welds you could make an outside gusset and add a couple bolts at each union


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## Dusty (Apr 18, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> Well.... using PA prices for channel and angle which are probably outrageous a 40" long X 20" wide X 30" high stand with one shelf could be fabricated for less than $200.  Just not sure bolting it together would suffice.  Also, attaching casters to the ends of c-channel has me scratching my head.
> 
> I got a mig welder just for making these kinds of projects it's too bad I don't trust my welds.  Maybe bolt it together and attempt to weld the seams?



Craig there are many members in the Calgary area some being very good welders, surly one of them would step forward and help out. 

If members in Ontario can do it so can others else ware. Come on guys step up to the plate, offer a hand to a fellow member and a good one at that.


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## YYCHM (Apr 18, 2021)

Dusty said:


> Craig there are many members in the Calgary area some being very good welders, surly one of them would step forward and help out.
> 
> If members in Ontario can do it so can others else ware. Come on guys step up to the plate, offer a hand to a fellow member and a good one at that.



Thanks Dusty...….  Still examining options at this point.

This might be the solution for using the bench that the shaper was on.

https://www.banggood.com/4-Pcs-Set-...mmds=detail-left-hotproducts&cur_warehouse=CN


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## Dusty (Apr 18, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> Thanks Dusty...….  Still examining options at this point.
> 
> This might be the solution for using the bench that the shaper was on.
> 
> https://www.banggood.com/4-Pcs-Set-...mmds=detail-left-hotproducts&cur_warehouse=CN





YYCHM said:


> Thanks Dusty...….  Still examining options at this point.
> 
> For what its worth, you will want to use lag bolts to hold those babies on to carry the shaper weight and movement. Most reliable and safest place to fasten locking castors is from the bottom. Just saying!


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## YYCHM (Apr 18, 2021)

Here is another one.  https://www.banggood.com/Workbench-...mmds=detail-left-hotproducts&cur_warehouse=CN

These would allow moving the bench out of it's niche and then setting it down on the floor eliminating any caster movement issues when in operation.


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## Dusty (Apr 18, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> Here is another one.  https://www.banggood.com/Workbench-...mmds=detail-left-hotproducts&cur_warehouse=CN



Pricey beasties. I'm convinced you can do much better with a PA sale item using bottom locking castors with welded stand on top. With out riggers if you must.


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## YYCHM (Apr 18, 2021)

Dusty said:


> Pricey beasties. I'm convinced you can do much better with a PA sale item using bottom locking castors with welded stand on top. With out riggers if you must.



Ya, I'm leaning towards fabricating something.  Will get the shelves I need and width for stability and the stand really doesn't need to be all that tall.  That 10" wide bench it was on makes me kind of nervous, it would need out riggers for sure.


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## YYCHM (Apr 18, 2021)

@francist What are the dimensions of your shaper stand?


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## Dusty (Apr 18, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> @francist What are the dimensions of your shaper stand?



Smart move Craig, start at the beginning using original measurements then like you say decide on out riggers or not. Watch PA sales for locking castors to carry the weight. I'm sure a skilled welder member will step forward and help. Perhaps there's some decent size square tubing out there looking for a new home. Hang in there, good luck with this project!


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## francist (Apr 18, 2021)

Thought that might be coming 
The chip pan is essentially 20” x 36” (ok, 20.5 x 35.5) and it’s roughly an inch deep, so the actual base of the shaper would be close to 35” from the floor (if I measure from floor to top the chip pan lip it’s 36” even)
The base is cast aluminum ends and then a sheet metal back panel in between. I added the shorter front dash panel for instrumentation and controls. As you might see in the pics, the actual contact points on the floor are in from the two edges a bit, so the actual four-point contact on the floor is 12” wide by 36” long centre to centre on the mounting holes in the feet.


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## Dusty (Apr 18, 2021)

francist said:


> Thought that might be coming
> The chip pan is essentially 20” x 36” (ok, 20.5 x 35.5) and it’s roughly an inch deep, so the actual base of the shaper would be close to 35” from the floor (if I measure from floor to top the chip pan lip it’s 36” even)
> The base is cast aluminum ends and then a sheet metal back panel in between. I added the shorter front dash panel for instrumentation and controls. As you might see in the pics, the actual contact points on the floor are in from the two edges a bit, so the actual four-point contact on the floor is 12” wide by 36” long centre to centre on the mounting holes in the feet.
> 
> View attachment 14281View attachment 14282View attachment 14283



Right on francist your photos and measurements make sense. Like the pattern of your floor mats did your wife choose them. LOL


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## francist (Apr 18, 2021)

Here’s a better shot of the mounting pads. They’re part of the end castings but instead of bolts through the holes I turned ABS levelling pads to go underneath.


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## francist (Apr 18, 2021)

Dusty said:


> Right on francist your photos and measurements make sense. Like the pattern of your floor mats did your wife choose them. LOL


Nah, no wife — no strife.


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## YYCHM (Apr 18, 2021)

francist said:


> Thought that might be coming
> The chip pan is essentially 20” x 36” (ok, 20.5 x 35.5) and it’s roughly an inch deep, so the actual base of the shaper would be close to 35” from the floor (if I measure from floor to top the chip pan lip it’s 36” even)
> The base is cast aluminum ends and then a sheet metal back panel in between. I added the shorter front dash panel for instrumentation and controls. As you might see in the pics, the actual contact points on the floor are in from the two edges a bit, so the actual four-point contact on the floor is 12” wide by 36” long centre to centre on the mounting holes in the feet.



That's interesting...  narrower and taller than I thought it would be.


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## Dusty (Apr 18, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> That's interesting...  narrower and taller than I thought it would be.



Get yourself a sturdy stool to stand on, problem solved! LOL


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## francist (Apr 18, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> That's interesting...  narrower and taller than I thought it would be.


Perhaps, but keep in mind it is a fairly small machine and if it sits any lower a person would always be hunched over trying to set things up. You can do your own math, but with a 35” tall stand it puts the cranks at just above elbow height and let’s you sight along the top of a workpiece really nicely too.


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## 6.5 Fan (Apr 19, 2021)

Craig i'm thinking you need to move to a bigger shop/house. Something with a large garage would be nice, lots of room for new toys and large tool supports.


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## YYCHM (Apr 19, 2021)

Yesterday I spotted this....

https://www.busybeetools.com/products/iron-man-universal-workshop-table.html

Went over to BB this morning to have a look and was impressed.  It's pretty beefy, and has HD castors that lock the wheels from turning as well as swivelling.

Then I went back to HD while I was thinking it over to look at the Husky tool chest a second time.  At HD I realized the Husky wouldn't work for me.  It has fixed castors on the wrong end to swing it in and out of it's niche and it wasn't obvious if the castors could be swapped end for end.

So went back to BB and picked up the Iron Man.






Here it is tucked in it's niche.






And here it is swung out for action.

It's only 36" long, so I may plank it out to 39" before spotting the shaper on it.  Besides who wants all those holes exposed for thing to drop through.

Getting there...….


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## David_R8 (Apr 19, 2021)

I think I'd be attaching some bracing to the sides so that it doesn't rack.


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## YYCHM (Apr 19, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> I think I'd be attaching some bracing to the sides so that it doesn't rack.



Bracing which way?


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## David_R8 (Apr 19, 2021)

Either cross bracing like this or plywood (or metal) panels to connect the uprights together.


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## YYCHM (Apr 19, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> Either cross bracing like this or plywood (or metal) panels to connect the uprights together.
> View attachment 14299



So sheet it in on three sides?  What thickness of plywood would suffice?


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## David_R8 (Apr 19, 2021)

1/2 would be sufficient. 1/4” would probably work but it’s rarely flat. 
Whatever you have on hand really.


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## YYCHM (Apr 19, 2021)

1/2" plywood  If I drill holes in this thing I'm committed to keeping it


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## Dusty (Apr 19, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> 1/2" plywood  If I drill holes in this thing I'm committed to keeping it



Do you mean your not convinced this workshop table is the correct choice for the shaper?


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## YYCHM (Apr 19, 2021)

Dusty said:


> Do you mean your not convinced this workshop table is the correct choice for the shaper?



I don't think we will know if it's totally suitable until the machine is running is on it.  It's the best option that suits me (has shelf) that I have found so far.

I think the next order of business is to get the shaper on the table, racking stiffeners can wait.  I would want another shelf added anyways so perhaps the stiffeners would be the shelf support.  Next up is planking the table top and arranging to get an engine hoist into the basement.  Still need to liberate the on/off switch from original wood cabinet as well.


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## YYCHM (Apr 21, 2021)

Sweet!!!!  @Tom O 's 1 Ton chain fall made loading the shaper onto the stand easy peasy……..






And I didn't pull the house down in the process


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## francist (Apr 21, 2021)

Yeah, I bought a 1-ton for exactly the same reason. They’re heavy little critters and kind of tough to get a handle on.


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## Tom O (Apr 21, 2021)

Hmm looks like you pulled a hat down and hung it on the nail. Lol


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## YYCHM (Apr 21, 2021)

Tom O said:


> Hmm looks like you pulled a hat down and hung it on the nail. Lol



No LOL.  I pulled the nail, and hung the chain fall using 2 ratchet straps and a rope wrapped around the beam.


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## YYCHM (Apr 21, 2021)

Looks like this is a go......






I just ran her up with a fairly long stroke at a pretty good clip and the stand is staying put.  What ever motion I'm seeing appears to be originating from the casters.

Next up is to get it put back together and add some racking stiffeners to the stand.


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## RobinHood (Apr 22, 2021)

Looks like that worked perfectly. Good job.


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## Hruul (Apr 22, 2021)

@YYCHM would it be helpful to move the motor to below to reduce how top heavy it is?  Is it stable that way now as well with the new cart?


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## YYCHM (Apr 22, 2021)

Hruul said:


> @YYCHM would it be helpful to move the motor to below to reduce how top heavy it is?  Is it stable that way now as well with the new cart?



Seems ok.  The stand it was on was just as tall but only 10" wide.  This stand is 18" wide.  There is no perceived side rocking when the machine is running, so I'm feeling confident it's good enough.  For now anyways.


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## Dusty (Apr 22, 2021)

Hruul said:


> @YYCHM would it be helpful to move the motor to below to reduce how top heavy it is?  Is it stable that way now as well with the new cart?



I would think the motor becomes a balancing act keeping the center of 'G' well positioned on the stand while operating or moving it around. Just saying!


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## YYCHM (Apr 22, 2021)

Dusty said:


> I would think the motor becomes a balancing act keeping the center of 'G' well positioned on the stand while operating or moving it around. Just saying!



As in a problem or a benefit?


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## Dusty (Apr 22, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> As in a problem or a benefit?



Most definitely a huge plus where it sits. Shaper vibration at the business end is likely dampened somewhat by the weight of the motor as it sits. At least that's the way I view it.


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## YYCHM (Apr 23, 2021)

Question for @francist ….






Should changing the direction of this gear pawl(?) change the table power feed direction from left to right or right to left?  So far I have only been able to power feed left to right when viewed from the front.


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## francist (Apr 23, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> Question for @francist ….
> 
> View attachment 14347
> 
> Should changing the direction of this gear pawl(?) change the table power feed direction from left to right or right to left?  So far I have only been able to power feed left to right when viewed from the front.


Correct. Mine is a little older but the same arrow thing — I lift and turn 90 degrees to engage the table feed. Depending on which way you turn the arrow to point will govern which direction the table moves (or should move). When the arrow is pointing either straight forward or straight backwards (towards your motor, say) the table should not be under power and you can advance the feed using the crank. When the arrow points left or right (as you’re staring at the end of the ram) it should be under feed. Did that make sense?

FYI - you need to make sure your table feed is set properly to coordinate with the ram stroke, it’s easy to get it backwards and it takes a bit to get your head around this sometimes. The table feed (step over, in shaper talk) needs to be timed to the stroke so that the table advances as the cutter is returning. You don’t want the table to be advancing as the ram is on the forward stroke. Easiest way I know is to run the ram slowly by hand and watch closely as your table advances in relation to the cutter. A dial indicator set against the side of the table can be your friend here to show when it moves.


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## francist (Apr 23, 2021)

If you’re having trouble getting the pawl to engage reliably, try putting a bit more drag on the nut on the end of the lead screw. This is a very common thing that gets folks confused -  the pawl just rocks back and forth without engaging or advancing the gear. What’s often happening is not enough drag on the nut and the screw is just rocking back and forth, a tweak of the nut just a hair will usually get you back in business.


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## YYCHM (Apr 23, 2021)

francist said:


> The table feed (step over, in shaper talk) needs to be timed to the stroke so that the table advances as the cutter is returning.








The step over direction is controlled by which side of center this crank is set, it that correct?


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## RobinHood (Apr 23, 2021)

Correct.

There is some backlash on the table feed gear (the woodruff key is a bit sloppy). If the stroke length is not long enough to catch 2 teeth  (IIRC), it will not start to feed by itself. Take out the backlash by hand with the crank first, then engage the power feed. Seemed to work for me that way.


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## francist (Apr 23, 2021)

Yes and no, it works in tandem with the pawl knob. If the arm is fixed on one side of the eccentric the table motion will be synced with ram stroke, ie advance table on return stroke. Now if you flip the pawl so the arrow is the other way, the table will feed in the opposite direction but it will no longer be in sync with the ram and will advance at the same time as the cuttter is moving forward. You need to adjust both, you can’t cut on both table directions without changing which side of the eccentric the arm is fixed at. Regardless of which side the arm is fixed, the further it is from centre will increase the step over, the closer to centre will decrease your step over.


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## YYCHM (Apr 23, 2021)

francist said:


> If you’re having trouble getting the pawl to engage reliably, try putting a bit more drag on the nut on the end of the lead screw. This is a very common thing that gets folks confused -  the pawl just rocks back and forth without engaging or advancing the gear. What’s often happening is not enough drag on the nut and the screw is just rocking back and forth, a tweak of the nut just a hair will usually get you back in business.



Bingo!  That solved the problem.  It now power feeds in both directions reliably.

THANKS!


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## YYCHM (Apr 23, 2021)

francist said:


> Yes and no, it works in tandem with the pawl knob. If the arm is fixed on one side of the eccentric the table motion will be synced with ram stroke, ie advance table on return stroke. Now if you flip the pawl so the arrow is the other way, the table will feed in the opposite direction but it will no longer be in sync with the ram and will advance at the same time as the cuttter is moving forward. You need to adjust both, you can’t cut on both table directions without changing which side of the eccentric the arm is fixed at. Regardless of which side the arm is fixed, the further it is from centre will increase the step over, the closer to centre will decrease your step over.



Yes, that was my understanding as well thanks.


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## francist (Apr 23, 2021)

Yay! Just think, now you’ve got this figured getting your outdoor motion lights to come on and go off when you want is gonna be a cinch!


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## YYCHM (Apr 23, 2021)

RobinHood said:


> Correct.
> 
> There is some backlash on the table feed gear (the woodruff key is a bit sloppy). If the stroke length is not long enough to catch 2 teeth  (IIRC), it will not start to feed by itself. Take out the backlash by hand with the crank first, then engage the power feed. Seemed to work for me that way.



I figured out the take the backlash out with the hand crank trick but that only appeared to work for one direction. 

I'll take a look at that table feed gear issue thanks.


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## YYCHM (Apr 23, 2021)

francist said:


> Yay! Just think, now you’ve got this figured getting your outdoor motion lights to come on and go off when you want is gonna be a cinch!



Not quite there yet LOL. 

Is there an order for setting start of stroke and length of stroke?  I had to chase that around a bit to get it where I wanted it.  One seemed to affect the other.


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## francist (Apr 23, 2021)

I usually set length of stroke first and then adjust the position of the ram (where the stroke begins and ends) second but I don’t know there’s a hard and fast rule. It just seems easier to me that way. Typically I’ll aim for at least half an inch longer on each end of the part.


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## YYCHM (Apr 24, 2021)

Today I added the second shelf  I wanted to the shaper stand....






Geeze Home Depot seems expensive.  $42 for 2 - 36" long perforated 1-1/4" angle, 4 - 5/16" nuts, bolts and washers and 2 - 3/8" X 3-1/2" bolts?

Next up will be the racking braces.


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## YYCHM (Apr 24, 2021)

@francist could you please post an image or two of the tooling you use.  I'm kind of at a loss as to what shape to grind.


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## francist (Apr 24, 2021)

Okay, here you go. I regularly use 3/8” square HSS tool bits directly in the lantern post for most of my cutting. Those are the tools on the left. The smaller ones on the right are 1/4” square HSS and I use them for specialty profiles or of course tighter spots. They get used in the three Armstrong-style tool holders you see above them. These are not the regular angled holders you typically see with lathes, these hold the cutter at zero rake and have a “T” designation. They were made for tungsten carbide bits (hence the T) and are really hard to find.

Most of these profiles are from the copious pages in that Shaper Work publication I linked to you earlier. Really great info in there. Others I design myself or have copied from someone else. My go-to rougher is the square nose tool I’m holding, and a nice finisher is the shear tool I’m holding in the other pic although getting your head into how the angles work can be challenging. One thing to remember about shaper tooling is that cutters like a bit of positive back rake, often in a kind of “scoop” or spoon shape, and require very little clearance angle because of the way they approach the work. Otherwise they’re a lot like lathe tools in my opinion anyways.


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## YYCHM (Apr 27, 2021)

Spent the last two days adding stiffening panels to the shaper stand.....
















A big THANK YOU to @kevin.decelles for letting me have these panels (back).  They were the perfect size and 20 gauge at least.

I don't think I need to worry about the stand racking now.

Craig


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## YYCHM (Apr 28, 2021)

Today I remounted the belt guard....






All of the mounting brackets were badly twisted and bend out of shape.






Ended up straightening them out as best I could with the bench vise.  This is the rear bottom bracket.






This is the front bottom bracket.






The front top bracket I had to replace....






It broke while attempting to straighten it out.  There isn't much room under that belt guard.  Getting things to stop rubbing ended up being an exercise in tweaking the mounting brackets screws until everything was clear.  Hopefully she stays put.






And I finally tweaked this hatch cover latch so the hatch stays in place now.


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## Dusty (Apr 28, 2021)

Well done Craig you should have been a knee surgeon, I could use one!

Patient laying in surgery when the surgeon walks in. Hi doc can I ask you a question, well yes he says! Will this procedure prevent me from playing the piano? Doc replies no don't believe it would! Patient says that's great because I've never played the piano before. Groaner!


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## Brent H (Apr 28, 2021)

Haha @Dusty!   I am sure that when @David_R8 finishes the CNC plasma, @YYCHM gets the shaper going and @ShawnR gets the new lathe and 72x2 up to 100% we can start on your bionic knee!   You will be able to kick a$$ across country!!


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## Dusty (Apr 28, 2021)

Brent H said:


> Haha @Dusty!   I am sure that when @David_R8 finishes the CNC plasma, @YYCHM gets the shaper going and @ShawnR gets the new lathe and 72x2 up to 100% we can start on your bionic knee!   You will be able to kick a$$ across country!!



I'll do most anything to walk properly, play a piano, drive my vehicle or sip one of grandpa's pops. Not necessarily in that order. LOL

Forget about the piano, shop work, doing what I love best.


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## francist (Apr 28, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> And I finally tweaked this hatch cover latch so the hatch stays in place now.


Haha, those hatches are goofy. I have to give mine a good yank to open it up but then if I don’t get it juuust right when I put it back on it pops off halfway through a cut!

Your belt cover is interesting — mine is a different shape to go with the under mount drive system. Never really thought about that before.

-frank


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## YYCHM (Apr 28, 2021)

Got curious as to how well the table trammed...






Left hand side fore and aft 0.0005"
Right hand side fore and aft 0.0025"
Rear left to right 0.0"
Front left to right 0.0025"

Hmmmm….. these numbers would seem to indicate that the table isn't flat as opposed to tipped?  Any one else agree with that statement?

Looks like it rising (or dropping?) towards the front right hand corner.

I suppose that this may change depending upon how high or low the table is as well?

I don't think there is really anything that can be done about it though?

Also checked to see how the down feed dial was calibrated.  Looks to be 0.001" per division.

Craig


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## kevin.decelles (Apr 28, 2021)

How to tram a shaper

I haven't watched this yet, but I want to.  Let me know if its interesting.


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## YYCHM (Apr 29, 2021)

WOW.... The finish a shaper leaves behind is truly awesome!  And.... I wasn't using a "finishing" tool or small DOC.






That's as square if not squarer than anything I've managed to do on the mill.


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## RobinHood (Apr 30, 2021)

Nicely done!

Next you’ll be making spur gears with pure involute tooth forms.

Nothing stopping you now...


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## Hacker (Apr 30, 2021)

Nice work!!


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## Hruul (Apr 30, 2021)

Looks great Craig.


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## Dusty (Apr 30, 2021)

Really nice Craig, you have a winer! LOL


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## Tom O (Apr 30, 2021)

Looks great


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## YYCHM (Apr 30, 2021)

Todays sojourn into Shaper Land....






I setup the shaper to power feed the table z-axis and squared off the ends of my sample.  Not near as nice finish but I used a different tool and probably a different feed rate.  Found a few glitchy things with the power feed gear train that I need to attend to.


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## YYCHM (May 5, 2021)

What do you guys think of this idea as a means of lifting the shaper stand off it's casters when in use?






A coupling nut welded to 1" square stock bolted to the leg in two places, of course we would do this to all 4 legs. In order to clear the casters the bottom of the nut has to remain 4" above the floor.  What I mocked up in the image represents a 1/2" bolt and I'm thinking that's not good enough or would it be if I placed a block under it to reduce the 4" exposure?

Thoughts?


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## Tom O (May 5, 2021)

You could lift it off the wheels using a cam system


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## YYCHM (May 5, 2021)

Tom O said:


> You could lift it off the wheels using a cam system



We are talking 500+ lbs here?  How would a cam lock once it's raised?  Got an example?


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## David_R8 (May 5, 2021)

What's the problem you're trying to solve Craig? Stability?


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## YYCHM (May 5, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> What's the problem you're trying to solve Craig? Stability?



Not so much stability but the fact that the casters flex a little where the mounting stud interfaces with the caster swivel bearings so even with the wheels locked there is a little motion.  I think floor locks would solve this but those silly things are quite expensive for what they are.


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## David_R8 (May 5, 2021)

I think it would be fine, the only issue would be the need to crank the all-thread up and down so far. But you could loctite/weld a nut on the end and use a cordless drill to spin it up and down.


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## YYCHM (May 5, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> I think it would be fine, the only issue would be the need to crank the all-thread up and down so far. But you could loctite/weld a nut on the end and use a cordless drill to spin it up and down.



I'd be using bolts not ready rod LOL.


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## Chicken lights (May 5, 2021)

See if you can follow me- cut or make a steel foot, 1-2” diameter maybe 1/4” thick or more. Drill the center out to 5/8”. Weld a G8 bolt from the bottom all inside that 5/8” hole. That leaves you all 6 flats for a wrench.
You may need to cut the threads longer on the bolt but thread on a regular nut then thread the bolt into the coupling nut 
Now you can use a wrench to Jack the shaper off the floor and level it how you want it. Then tighten up the jam nut and it should never move


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## Tom O (May 5, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> We are talking 500+ lbs here?  How would a cam lock once it's raised?  Got an example?



You could use a piece of round with a flat spot milled in it, the flat spot would be the wheels down position so as you rotate it 180* it extends rising off the flat to the major diameter Raising the wheels. The depth of the flat controls how much it lifts.  It wouldn’t be a 500 lb lift as one side is lifting  and you probably only need a 1/4” of movement


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## Brent H (May 5, 2021)

I have looked at these before:

Theia Technical Heavy Duty Industry Levelling Caster Wheels Swivel Plate Mounted Stem Castors Retractable |Vertical Adjust| Footmaster FML-80F 4 Pack https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B08R7RPYK6/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_ZBABPDEXY2CA9E7G5X95


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## YYCHM (May 5, 2021)

Brent H said:


> I have looked at these before:
> 
> Theia Technical Heavy Duty Industry Levelling Caster Wheels Swivel Plate Mounted Stem Castors Retractable |Vertical Adjust| Footmaster FML-80F 4 Pack https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B08R7RPYK6/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_ZBABPDEXY2CA9E7G5X95



Been looking at these and floor locks.  Trying to avoid a $100 upgrade to the stand LOL.


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## YYCHM (May 5, 2021)

Chicken lights said:


> View attachment 14572See if you can follow me- cut or make a steel foot, 1-2” diameter maybe 1/4” thick or more. Drill the center out to 5/8”. Weld a G8 bolt from the bottom all inside that 5/8” hole. That leaves you all 6 flats for a wrench.
> You may need to cut the threads longer on the bolt but thread on a regular nut then thread the bolt into the coupling nut
> Now you can use a wrench to Jack the shaper off the floor and level it how you want it. Then tighten up the jam nut and it should never move



You lost me with this one LOL......


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## Chicken lights (May 5, 2021)

Like a mill levelling foot but made with a bolt


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## YYCHM (May 5, 2021)

Tom O said:


> You could use a piece of round with a flat spot milled in it, the flat spot would be the wheels down position so as you rotate it 180* it extends rising off the flat to the major diameter Raising the wheels. The depth of the flat controls how much it lifts.  It wouldn’t be a 500 lb lift as one side is lifting  and you probably only need a 1/4” of movement



Is this round piece with flat fixed to something or between something or what?  I don't think I'm totally  following but I'm liking the sound of this approach.  I only need to raise the stand a smidge.


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## Tom O (May 6, 2021)

Like this. It could be make out of a larger bolt.


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## YYCHM (May 6, 2021)

Tom O said:


> Like this. It could be make out of a larger bolt.
> View attachment 14590



Interesting concept.....


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## Tom O (May 6, 2021)

True one drawback is it would need a spring or a thumbscrew to stop it from lowering when the casters are being used. We used this method on our English wheels to raise/lower the lower anvil during fittings it is quite accurate. It could be possible to have it go through both with a longer shaft lowering both legs at the same time or have the rocker plate similar to the caster locks.


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## kevin.decelles (May 6, 2021)

Or do you jack it up and shim it with a 2x4 block to get it off the wheels.  How often will this move from its current position?  I took most of my tooling 'off' casters, opting for level-able feet.  A toe-jack and a dolly to move it when you need to may be your simplest option?


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## YYCHM (May 6, 2021)

kevin.decelles said:


> Or do you jack it up and shim it with a 2x4 block to get it off the wheels.  How often will this move from its current position?  I took most of my tooling 'off' casters, opting for level-able feet.  A toe-jack and a dolly to move it when you need to may be your simplest option?



I've been playing with that idea as well.  Jack it up with a hydraulic bottle jack and put it on blocks.  Some what time consuming but probably the cheapest solution.  The machine needs to be pushed out of the way after every shaper project so some what frequently.

One thing that concerns me with this approach is that every time you jack up a corner you'll probably be twisting the stand somewhat and what effect that will have over time.


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## YYCHM (May 6, 2021)

So I'll soon be needing to cut an internal keyway.  To that end I decided to setup the shaper and give it a try....











I made up this centering jig so that I could align the work piece in the vise.






Here work piece is in the vise.






This is the keyway tool.  1/2" round stock slotted for a 1/8" HSS cutting tool held in place with a set screw.






After much fooling around and reconfiguring I finally got this.  Unfortunately with all the messing around I lost track of how deep I had cut the keyway.

Things that went sideways were...

Twice I had to re-adjust the length of stroke and start of stroke.  I'm not sure why.

At one point the 1/8" HSS tool started climbing in it's slot.  Maybe it needs a bigger setscrew?

And in one incident, the 1/2" horizontal tool holder moved in the lantern tool holder.

Guess I need to try it all again and work the bugs out.


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## Hruul (May 6, 2021)

Great idea on how to centre the part in the vise.


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## YYCHM (May 6, 2021)

Ok..... I think I've got this keyway cutting issue sorted out..






The top back rake I ground on the tool was causing it to dig in and dig it with enough force to throw things out of wack.  I re-ground the tool with no top back rake and away she went.  Feeding at a slow rate helps as well.


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## DPittman (May 6, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> Ok..... I think I've got this keyway cutting issue sorted out..
> 
> View attachment 14600
> 
> The top back rake I ground on the tool was causing it to dig in and dig it with enough force to throw things out of wack.  I re-ground the tool with no top back rake and away she went.  Feeding at a slow rate helps as well.


I'd love to see a picture of the successful shape of the tool.


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## YYCHM (May 6, 2021)

DPittman said:


> I'd love to see a picture of the successful shape of the tool.



It's nothing special, just a square piece with about 10-15 deg of end relief. Think of it as a lathe turning tool pointing down. This is 1/8" square HSS, so kind of hard to get fancy with it and maintain a 1/8" wide cut.


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## Dusty (May 7, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> What do you guys think of this idea as a means of lifting the shaper stand off it's casters when in use?
> 
> View attachment 14561
> 
> ...



Hi Craig, also keep in mind you wouldn't want your adjustable steady leg supports modification to interfere with the 360 degree castor swivel. Having watched your abilities I'm confident you will come up with something special. Good luck!


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## 88hillman (May 7, 2021)

YYCHM,

One simple and cheap-ish option is to purchase workbench retracting casters, often associated with woodworking benches. These may have been mentioned already and I missed it. These are 4 individual units placed at 4 corners with swivel casters built in and a lever per unit that you step on or flip up with your toe. Available on eBay, Amazon or Lee Valley.

Another option is to use similar principles like the above in a slightly different way. Years ago I had a heavy machine by home woodworking shop standards, not so much by metal machining standards (< 1000 lbs). This machine needed to move frequently but absolutely needed to be rock solid when in use so we built a lifting mechanism for each end of the machine that bolted to the cabinet side which happened to be 1/4" plate.

I've sketched the idea so hopefully it makes sense from the drawing. It's not shown, but these were non-locking swivel castors. In my case we used some cheap units from Princess Auto but rated at about 500 lbs a piece. That meant the unit would start to roll when you thought it was perfectly still on a pretty flat floor. Easy to move, but the tool needed to be dropped to the floor for sure when you weren't moving it.

I'm sure this wasn't a new idea, but I had never seen it before we built the units for my machine.

Cheers,
Kirk
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






Sent from my SM-N960W using Tapatalk


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## 88hillman (May 7, 2021)

I forgot to mention, the cam (bearing in this case) needs to go slightly over center when the machine is lifted so you don't need another method to lock the lever in place.

Cheers,
Kirk

Sent from my SM-N960W using Tapatalk


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## Tom O (May 7, 2021)

Did you lock off the clapper? I couldn’t see in the pic.


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## YYCHM (May 7, 2021)

Tom O said:


> Did you lock off the clapper? I couldn’t see in the pic.



Not following?


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## kevin.decelles (May 7, 2021)

Force the clapper to “not clap”. In a key way cut , the clapper can cause problems by catching the bar/cutter on the bore

I removed my clapper with a solid mount for doing key ways


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## YYCHM (May 7, 2021)

kevin.decelles said:


> Force the clapper to “not clap”. In a key way cut , the clapper can cause problems by catching the bar/cutter on the bore
> 
> I removed my clapper with a solid mount for doing key ways



How do you bypass the clapper?


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## kevin.decelles (May 7, 2021)

On some shapers there is a bolt/screw to keep it closed, I’ve seen broken castings more often than not inthat setup

I just removed the hinged clapper and used an new block of steel

I’ll send pics after dinner as this is one of the 6 days we can bbq with no wind in Alberta this year


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## kevin.decelles (May 7, 2021)

Some pics from the southbend, I have replaced the clapper box








Here is the clapper







And on the big shaper, the boring bars I got with it were all homemade, and welded solid







The clapper on the big shaper had a hole for a locking bolt on the clapper but the casting was blown out on the clapper box







Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## kevin.decelles (May 7, 2021)

I don’t like my south end setup, I’ll be making solid (welded) boring blocks for it too for rigidity


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## YYCHM (May 10, 2021)

Added an ESD to the shaper today...…






Could no longer use this NC switch for the mill so I repurposed it on the shaper.


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## YYCHM (May 19, 2021)

Changed out the casters on my shaper stand with HD industrial leveling casters today......






Man these chain falls are the cats a.s for lifting stuff.  I was so impressed with the one @Tom O lent me that I picked up a 1 ton at PA on sale for $50.  They are in the current flyer.






This is what the new casters look like.  Way way better than what was on it.  Put the levelers down and she's rock solid now.






These are what I replaced.  They have some play in the swivel bearing so even with the swivel and wheels locked there was some rocking.


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## Hruul (May 19, 2021)

Hey @YYCHM how are you connecting the chain fall to the joist?


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## YYCHM (May 19, 2021)

Hruul said:


> Hey @YYCHM how are you connecting the chain fall to the joist?



It was not hung on a joist.  I wrapped a sling around the main floor support beam.  3 - 2X10s layered together.


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## Hruul (May 19, 2021)

Ok.  I have a beam in my garage that supports the exterior wall of the house above.  I want to talk to a structural engineer about if I can attach something to it, at some point.  Was just wondering how you had done it.

Thanks.


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## Dusty (May 19, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> Changed out the casters on my shaper stand with HD industrial leveling casters today......
> 
> View attachment 14843
> 
> ...



Smart move Craig really great add on!


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## kevin.decelles (May 19, 2021)

Hruul said:


> Ok. I have a beam in my garage that supports the exterior wall of the house above. I want to talk to a structural engineer about if I can attach something to it, at some point. Was just wondering how you had done it.
> 
> Thanks.



If u watch enough YouTube you’ll realize we have a safety factor of 50 built into our North American thinking.

Just watch videos from Taiwan or Vietnam , those guys will suspend 3 ton from anything that can support the rope

Seriously though, beams are one thing , roof trusses are another. I used to throw 2x6s across trusses in the attic until I measured the deflection...... I no longer do so


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## YYCHM (May 19, 2021)

kevin.decelles said:


> I used to throw 2x6s across trusses in the attic until I measured the deflection...... I no longer do so



You put 2X6s across the attic trusses for what reason?


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## kevin.decelles (May 20, 2021)

To make a beam to lift things vs lifting on the trusses alone (span multiple trusses)


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## Dabbler (May 21, 2021)

@kevin.decelles I am about to do something similar, but my load spreading is being carefully engineered.  I only want 450 lbs max load anyway, and I am only allowing .067 deflection anywhere in the  system...

My initial test with my 475 lb compressor on 2 trusses yielded less than .080 deflection, so I'm sure I'm on the right track.

-- built up beams are way better!


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