# Wheeled RC Tank Build



## SomeGuy (Jan 15, 2022)

So I started the first project I'm going to use my lathe for, a wheeled RC tank. I started with putting together the electronics, though ran into an issue where the PWM used by the radio receiver and the motor drivers doesn't match. So looks like I need different motor drivers...but otherwise, pretty neat to get it running.






I'll be also doing this on the YouTube channel I started that I mention in the other thread. If you want to see me put this stuff together and a few more details, it's here:


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## Everett (Jan 15, 2022)

I like the idea of using a standardized swappable battery like you are. Means your tools and toys use the same standard, lol.  This is going to be cool.


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## SomeGuy (Jan 15, 2022)

Everett said:


> I like the idea of using a standardized swappable battery like you are. Means your tools and toys use the same standard, lol.  This is going to be cool.



Yup, I've got a pile of them and technically it's equivalent to a 5S RC battery and uses 18650 cells and you can draw something like 50 amps from them peak (though I expect to be around 10 amps). We'll see how it goes, since the motor is peak efficiency at 24v and could take as high as 36v if you want, so they'll run a bit slower.


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## PeterT (Jan 16, 2022)

Interesting, I'll have to start following along. I've been in RC a long time but my knowledge ends at the fringe of regular RC equipment. And when it comes to PWM & signal processing my eyes glaze over LOL.
@CalgaryPT probably has a handle on this stuff. All I can say is that even amongst the branded mainstream RC radio manufacturers, its to a point that none of them are on speaking terms with one another, meaning the receiver protocols. JR used to talk Spectrum, but different that Futaba, Jeti, Taranis... Reason I mention is if you have to program specific channels to drive the wheel motors or other features in the future, the TX choice would have a trickle effect to RX features/suitability. By this I mean mixing, end points, rates etc. A more basic TX will be limited as to what it can do. I'm sure this stuff is RobotClub 101 but outside my scope. Most of the robot war stuff I see looks like they have a typical RC 8+ch radio. I don't fly Taranus but if you are into programming, that seems to be popular with RC/hobbyist folks who want to define every button & stick movement to do whatever (vs being more constrained by how a typical RC TX is laid out).

I'm curious about the 20v 5 A-hr packs. I'm guessing maybe 10 cells, bank of 5 in series to get 5*4=20v nominal? And you are putting 2 packs in parallel to get 20v x 10 A-hr? 
So 50A max draw / 10 A-hr = 5C equivalent. Is that what 18650 cells can do? I tried Googling specs but they seem to vary all over the map.


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## SomeGuy (Jan 16, 2022)

PeterT said:


> Interesting, I'll have to start following along. I've been in RC a long time but my knowledge ends at the fringe of regular RC equipment. And when it comes to PWM & signal processing my eyes glaze over LOL.
> @CalgaryPT probably has a handle on this stuff. All I can say is that even amongst the branded mainstream RC radio manufacturers, its to a point that none of them are on speaking terms with one another, meaning the receiver protocols. JR used to talk Spectrum, but different that Futaba, Jeti, Taranis... Reason I mention is if you have to program specific channels to drive the wheel motors or other features in the future, the TX choice would have a trickle effect to RX features/suitability. By this I mean mixing, end points, rates etc. A more basic TX will be limited as to what it can do. I'm sure this stuff is RobotClub 101 but outside my scope. Most of the robot war stuff I see looks like they have a typical RC 8+ch radio. I don't fly Taranus but if you are into programming, that seems to be popular with RC/hobbyist folks who want to define every button & stick movement to do whatever (vs being more constrained by how a typical RC TX is laid out).
> 
> I'm curious about the 20v 5 A-hr packs. I'm guessing maybe 10 cells, bank of 5 in series to get 5*4=20v nominal? And you are putting 2 packs in parallel to get 20v x 10 A-hr?
> So 50A max draw / 10 A-hr = 5C equivalent. Is that what 18650 cells can do? I tried Googling specs but they seem to vary all over the map.



The problem I have is between the receiver and the motor driver...not the transmitter and receiver. I'm not about to start mucking with different TX/RX combos, the one I got has 6 channels so I have a few optional hookups if I need them (I might put a little snow plow on the front of this lol).

As for the packs, I think you're spot on...should be 10 x 18650 cells, 5 each in series than parallel together from what I've seen/read. As I wired in the vid, packs are independent, one for left one for right. So effectively getting 10ah but not using them in parallel. We'll see how they end up working, worst case I have to get real lipo packs but I have tons of these batteries on hand so if they work I'm ahead.


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## PeterT (Jan 16, 2022)

I guess I was suggesting (guessing really) that the output protocols might vary by RX brand too & what your driver might be expecting maybe not be what your RX is delivering. Only reason I say this is the configuration & wiring can vary with ESC's & other do-dads like the heli & drone guys plug into.








						RC radio control protocols explained: PWM, PPM, PCM, SBUS, IBUS DSMX, DSM2
					

This guide will explain the various radio control receiver protocols that you are likely to come across in this drone hobby.  So next time it comes to buying some new R/C receiver, or setting up your R/C receiver with your flight controller you will know exactly what all the acronyms mean and...




					www.dronetrest.com
				







__





						Home - MULTI-Module Documentation
					






					www.multi-module.org
				




I didn't think 18650 C-rating was that high, but as mentioned, internet specs are all over the map. This link suggests Continuous = ~1  (2750/2850). Burst/high = ~ 3 (8250/2850) . 



			https://components101.com/sites/default/files/component_datasheet/18650%20Lithium%20Cell%20Datasheet.pdf


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## SomeGuy (Jan 16, 2022)

PeterT said:


> I guess I was suggesting (guessing really) that the output protocols might vary by RX brand too & what your driver might be expecting maybe not be what your RX is delivering. Only reason I say this is the configuration & wiring can vary with ESC's & other do-dads like the heli & drone guys plug into.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah, I've seen all those other protocols. Both of the things I bought said "PWM" so that's why I figured they'd work together...but I guess RC PWM is different than regular PWM, and the motor driver does regular PWM, the RC does a special one where it uses 1.5ms, 1.0ms, and 2.0ms pulses for "middle" "low" and "high". At least from what I've read.

We'll see how the batteries do, I know in my grinder or leaf blower I can drain the entire battery in 15 minutes of use. So based on that, I should be safely able to draw 20 amps? 4C?


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## PeterT (Jan 16, 2022)

Maybe, maybe not. The pre-built tool packs probably have current and/or temperature sensing smarts on the circuit board thingy to protect the cells & shut it down. It might allow what it deems as 'danger zone' current level for short X amount of time, but my guess is it would be programmed conservative to protect the pack. You could test it of course monitoring current. I've never seen a reset button any cordless tool so I think the net result is on=acceptable load, off=nope, not gunna do it LOL. I've heard of people with fried boards but that could be any number of things. Also heard of people gutting the cells out divorcing it from the tool case/board, but now you've lost all your well intentioned functionality.  A crap grade 5S RC lipo is 25C cont 50C burst, but you know all that I'm guessing.


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## LRSbm146 (Jan 16, 2022)

@SomeGuy what esc’s are you using? They look pretty similar to what I’ve seen go into electric skateboards. There has to be more information on the protocol....  some kind of a code. PPM and PWM are a little bit generic. 
All my drones and Helis fly on ppm but like @PeterT mentioned each brand does there own versions. 
All of my drones are on taranis, as they brought a lot of new features to the table that previous brands didn’t have. The first being open source software to program the remote called openTX. 
A simple solution to your communication issue might be switching to a “multi protocol” transmitter. Can probably find something for around $100 with 12-16 channels and most run OPENTX. OpenTX also makes programming a little more streamlined compared to doing it on the Tx screen.... things like mixing channels together. Might have some good features for a guy building a tank.


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## CalgaryPT (Jan 16, 2022)

SomeGuy said:


> So I started the first project I'm going to use my lathe for, a wheeled RC tank. I started with putting together the electronics, though ran into an issue where the PWM used by the radio receiver and the motor drivers doesn't match. So looks like I need different motor drivers...but otherwise, pretty neat to get it running.
> 
> View attachment 19848
> 
> I'll be also doing this on the YouTube channel I started that I mention in the other thread. If you want to see me put this stuff together and a few more details, it's here:


Looks like a great project. I'm curious why you went with a car transmitter as opposed to an air model for a robot?


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## SomeGuy (Jan 16, 2022)

PeterT said:


> Maybe, maybe not. The pre-built tool packs probably have current and/or temperature sensing smarts on the circuit board thingy to protect the cells & shut it down. It might allow what it deems as 'danger zone' current level for short X amount of time, but my guess is it would be programmed conservative to protect the pack. You could test it of course monitoring current. I've never seen a reset button any cordless tool so I think the net result is on=acceptable load, off=nope, not gunna do it LOL. I've heard of people with fried boards but that could be any number of things. Also heard of people gutting the cells out divorcing it from the tool case/board, but now you've lost all your well intentioned functionality.  A crap grade 5S RC lipo is 25C cont 50C burst, but you know all that I'm guessing.



I didn't know that...25C sounds like a lot of current. Honestly, given the motors are 250 watts rated (continuous), even if I draw 20 amps (roughly 500 watts on these packs) peak, I should be ok. We'll see how it goes and like I said, I can always switch.



LRSbm146 said:


> @SomeGuy what esc’s are you using? They look pretty similar to what I’ve seen go into electric skateboards. There has to be more information on the protocol....  some kind of a code. PPM and PWM are a little bit generic.
> All my drones and Helis fly on ppm but like @PeterT mentioned each brand does there own versions.
> All of my drones are on taranis, as they brought a lot of new features to the table that previous brands didn’t have. The first being open source software to program the remote called openTX.
> A simple solution to your communication issue might be switching to a “multi protocol” transmitter. Can probably find something for around $100 with 12-16 channels and most run OPENTX. OpenTX also makes programming a little more streamlined compared to doing it on the Tx screen.... things like mixing channels together. Might have some good features for a guy building a tank.


I have these ones, they didn't work:








						Cytron 30A 5-30V Single Brushed DC Motor Driver
					

Bi-directional control for 1 brushed DC motor Maximum current: 80A peak (1 second), 30A continuously Motor voltage: 5V - 30V 3.3V and 5V logic level input The 30A 5-30V Single Brushed DC Motor Driver is designed to drive medium to high power brushed DC motor with current capacity up to 80A peak...




					www.robotshop.com
				




Thinking of switching to these ones:








						Cytron Single 10- 45V, 40A Brushed DC Motor Controller
					

Bi-directional control for a single brushed DC motor Support motor from 10V to 45V Maximum current up to 80A peak Reduce to 40A gradually according to temperature The Cytron Single 10- 45V, 40A Brushed DC Motor Controller is designed to drive a brushed DC motor, ranging from medium to high power...




					www.robotshop.com
				




Like I mentioned, it's between the receiver and ESC...not the transmitter and receiver (they came together). RC PWM is just not the same...



CalgaryPT said:


> Looks like a great project. I'm curious why you went with a car transmitter as opposed to an air model for a robot?



It was cheap and has a mixing mode that can be programmed on the controller itself rather than using clunky software that might not work on windows 10...that's about it. This one was $80 with the transmitter and receiver....versus around double that for any two stick one with onboard programming.


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## CalgaryPT (Jan 16, 2022)

SomeGuy said:


> I didn't know that...25C sounds like a lot of current. Honestly, given the motors are 250 watts rated (continuous), even if I draw 20 amps (roughly 500 watts on these packs) peak, I should be ok. We'll see how it goes and like I said, I can always switch.
> 
> 
> I have these ones, they didn't work:
> ...


Gottcha. Please post your build. Great project with lots of fabrication, electronics, etc.

Are you adding any auxiliary control functions such as turret, gun, etc?


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## LRSbm146 (Jan 16, 2022)

@SomeGuy that second esc definitely sounds a little more plug and play


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## SomeGuy (Jan 16, 2022)

CalgaryPT said:


> Gottcha. Please post your build. Great project with lots of fabrication, electronics, etc.
> 
> Are you adding any auxiliary control functions such as turret, gun, etc?



I'm thinking snow plow  I am very much a functional over aesthetic type of person, so there will be little to no decoration. At most some flat black paint lol

Will post as I go, probably going to order new motor drivers this evening.


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## Tom O (Jan 16, 2022)

Paul has a hell of a lot of videos on robotics , AI, and programming amongst other things.


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## SomeGuy (Jan 16, 2022)

Tom O said:


> Paul has a hell of a lot of videos on robotics , AI, and programming amongst other things.



I skimmed the video, some neat stuff there.

Funny enough, I do software for a living, so that side of things including AI (I run an R&D group) I'm quite decently versed in.


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## YYCHM (Jan 16, 2022)

SomeGuy said:


> Funny enough, I do software for a living, so that side of things including AI (I run an R&D group) I'm quite decently versed in.



Yet another bit shifter joins us......  30 years of SCADA sw for me.


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## SomeGuy (Jan 16, 2022)

YYCHM said:


> Yet another bit shifter joins us......  30 years of SCADA sw for me.



I mostly play in the Microsoft tools....Visual Studio with c# and .net, SQL Server, Xamarin, Azure, etc. doing software for enterprise applications. Almost everyone here will have been impacted by software I helped design and build several times in their life, it's pretty cool 

Total OT though lol


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## PeterT (Jan 16, 2022)

SomeGuy said:


> I didn't know that...25C sounds like a lot of current. Honestly, given the motors are 250 watts rated (continuous), even if I draw 20 amps (roughly 500 watts on these packs) peak, I should be ok. We'll see how it goes and like I said, I can always switch.


 25C continuous is old news (lithium polymer not lithium ion) heap these days. Lets see, what's the current state of the day? Oh, there ya go 100C continuous, 200C burst. Yowza.








						2S 7.4V 8000mAh 100C-200C LiPo Battery w/ XT60 Plug + Traxxas
					

2S 7.4V 8000mAh 100C-200C LiPo Battery w/ XT60 Plug + Traxxas




					www.canadahobbies.ca
				




But I agree, match your packs to the motor requirements. Depending on the application, the battery price / capacity / other characteristics can sometimes dictate motor selection especially if the motor price is similar across different KV flavors.

ps I just realized something, those are brushed motors right? I was just starting to hunt around for a 'gadget' motor something like this. Is Ampflow a decent name?





						AmpFlow E30-150 Brushed Electric Motor, 12V, 24V or 36 VDC, 5600 RPM : Amazon.ca: Tools & Home Improvement
					

AmpFlow E30-150 Brushed Electric Motor, 12V, 24V or 36 VDC, 5600 RPM : Amazon.ca: Tools & Home Improvement



					www.amazon.ca


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## SomeGuy (Jan 16, 2022)

PeterT said:


> 25C continuous is old news (lithium polymer not lithium ion) heap these days. Lets see, what's the current state of the day? Oh, there ya go 100C continuous, 200C burst. Yowza.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Also being a budget build, it's kinda trying to not go overboard with the best of everything...especially when I clearly don't know what I'm doing. I'd rather burn up a Dewalt pack that is easily replaced than a few hundred of lipos.

Yeah they're brushed motors, seems decent for the price although I haven't gotten them under any load yet. I have the P40-250's.


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## darrin1200 (Jan 17, 2022)

This looks like a really cool build. While not an RC guy, I never heard, nor thought, of using tool batteries. Are you going to put some form of “projectile launcher” on it.

On a clarification note, tanks aren’t wheeled, they are tracked. If it’s armoured and has wheels, it is generally called an Armoured Fighting Vehicle (AFV) or an Armoured Car.

I spent 8 years working on Leopard Tanks, as well as a few years on Cougers (wheeled with a 76mm gun). While the Cougar was purchased as a tank trainer, it was never referred to as a tank. Doing so in the mess, after a few wobbly pops, could get you into some trouble depending on the company you were keeping. LOL

I’m looking forward to seeing this build.


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## Susquatch (Jan 17, 2022)

darrin1200 said:


> This looks like a really cool build. While not an RC guy, I never heard, nor thought, of using tool batteries. Are you going to put some form of “projectile launcher” on it.
> 
> On a clarification note, tanks aren’t wheeled, they are tracked. If it’s armoured and has wheels, it is generally called an Armoured Fighting Vehicle (AFV) or an Armoured Car.
> 
> ...



I use tool batteries for lots of things. Telescope, remote power, etc etc. You can even buy power taps for most brands. My fav is the dewalt 20V. Used to use the Makita 18. 

I fly RC helicopters right now. I could definitely get into a tracked RC...... Be a riot driving that around the farm with FPV..... To sneak up on critters with......


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## SomeGuy (Jan 17, 2022)

darrin1200 said:


> This looks like a really cool build. While not an RC guy, I never heard, nor thought, of using tool batteries. Are you going to put some form of “projectile launcher” on it.
> 
> On a clarification note, tanks aren’t wheeled, they are tracked. If it’s armoured and has wheels, it is generally called an Armoured Fighting Vehicle (AFV) or an Armoured Car.
> 
> ...



I guess in the RC world they call anything that "skid steers" a tank, hence using that term. Tracked would be cool, maybe for v2 but wheels are much easier to source and build around. Although I'll keep my eye out for a used snowblower with tracks, seems like they're a good source for them.


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## Susquatch (Jan 17, 2022)

SomeGuy said:


> Although I'll keep my eye out for a used snowblower with tracks, seems like they're a good source for them.



Wow. That's a bit bigger than what I was thinking..... 

But still great fun!


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## SomeGuy (Jan 23, 2022)

Part 2 of the build is up, new motor drivers and finished up the electronics:





Next time we should have some machining  going to start on the drivetrain.


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## PeterT (Jan 23, 2022)

That's cool.  One thing I don't quite get in your demo re the motor direction. You have full fwd & full reverse mode where motor direction is synched accordingly. And pivot mode (motors spin opposite). But for general left & right steering on a vehicle like that, don't the motors have to progressively add in mix/direction/amount depending on how much the turn radius is by the TX steering knob? Maybe you're heading there or I've missed it, sorry in advance. Was just curious


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## SomeGuy (Jan 23, 2022)

PeterT said:


> That's cool.  One thing I don't quite get in your demo re the motor direction. You have full fwd & full reverse mode where motor direction is synched accordingly. And pivot mode (motors spin opposite). But for general left & right steering on a vehicle like that, don't the motors have to progressively add in mix/direction/amount depending on how much the turn radius is by the TX steering knob? Maybe you're heading there or I've missed it, sorry in advance. Was just curious



You're spot on....I was just doing the controls at full but they proportion each other, so if you're full forward and start to turn, it pulls back throttle on the one side. Once you get to full turn on the steering, it's just one side driven and if you then let off on the throttle and still steer they start to go opposite.


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## SomeGuy (Feb 11, 2022)

Picked up some metal today  Part 3 coming soon!


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## SomeGuy (Mar 3, 2022)

Part 3 is finally up, has taken a while getting parts and learning how to use the lathe, but none the less it's here:


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## SomeGuy (Apr 1, 2022)

Part 4 of the build is up...it's actually starting to take shape


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## SomeGuy (Apr 2, 2022)

Will post a short video later but just got in from working on this project....it might be a little over powered lol I got one side of the sprocket drive in and figured out how I wanted to do wheel mounts, so one wheel on....it's, a little scary at full speed.

The other problem I think I'm going to run into is wheel balance. These wheels aren't exactly meant to do 40km/h and it shows.


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## SomeGuy (Apr 2, 2022)

Don't mind the over dramaticized music....the wheel speed this thing generates and how violently it brakes is nuts:


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## Susquatch (Apr 2, 2022)

SomeGuy said:


> Don't mind the over dramaticized music....the wheel speed this thing generates and how violently it brakes is nuts:



I'm surprised it didn't rip the frame off the bench......


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## SomeGuy (Apr 2, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> I'm surprised it didn't rip the frame off the bench......



LoL and that's only one of the two motors...if I can keep it from tearing itself apart, this thing is going to be ridiculous. I have a feeling I'm going to be fighting with parts breaking though.


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## YotaBota (Apr 2, 2022)

You may end up with gokart tires for balance, you're right the speed is wild.
Did you have a drawing of what the finished product might look like? Sherman? Panzer? Barstool? lol


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## SomeGuy (Apr 2, 2022)

YotaBota said:


> You may end up with gokart tires for balance, you're right the speed is wild.
> Did you have a drawing of what the finished product might look like? Sherman? Panzer? Barstool? lol



Yea, might have to...I was able to shift the split rim around to make it a smidge better, but it's definitely not great. I can also add some ramping through the controller and knock down the top end if need be, but I'd rather it go faster 

It will look like a box on wheels..."tank" refers to the skid steering style in the RC world apparently, so I rolled with that name. Although it will be a steel shelled tank of a thing lol


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## PeterT (Apr 2, 2022)

You're doing a great job. Its gunna rip! 
ps - I foresee a milling machine in your future LOL


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## SomeGuy (Apr 2, 2022)

PeterT said:


> You're doing a great job. Its gunna rip!
> ps - I foresee a milling machine in your future LOL



Yup, I would be surprised if I make it through this summer without getting one. If anyone sees a smallish 1-2hp benchtop mill for $2-3k in southern Ontario, let me know


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## SomeGuy (Apr 10, 2022)

No video yet, but sneak peak...I have wheels on!


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## 6.5 Fan (Apr 11, 2022)

You could add some nasty cutters on to the ends of the axels, like the Roman chariots in the old movies.


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## SomeGuy (Apr 11, 2022)

6.5 Fan said:


> You could add some nasty cutters on to the ends of the axels, like the Roman chariots in the old movies.


I believe those are called boudica wheel spikes


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## Susquatch (Apr 11, 2022)

SomeGuy said:


> I believe those are called boudica wheel spikes



Sort of sounds sexy. Like Boudoir. But it prolly wasn't!


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## SomeGuy (Apr 29, 2022)

Part 5 is up folks!






Getting so close


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## SomeGuy (Apr 29, 2022)

I completely posted the wrong link there, edit with the update lol


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## YYCHM (Apr 29, 2022)

SomeGuy said:


> I completely posted the wrong link there, edit with the update lol



I was wondering about that


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## SomeGuy (May 4, 2022)

DONUTS!!!! lol


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## SomeGuy (May 5, 2022)

LoL well I found the next weak point...seems 1/2" solid aluminum rod isn't quite enough to handle the bouncing around on rough terrain.


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## Susquatch (May 5, 2022)

SomeGuy said:


> LoL well I found the next weak point...seems 1/2" solid aluminum rod isn't quite enough to handle the bouncing around on rough terrain.



What was the bar for?


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## SomeGuy (May 5, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> What was the bar for?


That was one of the drive axles holding a wheel.


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## YotaBota (May 5, 2022)

When it comes to "tank turns" you've put Rivian to shame.


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## Susquatch (May 5, 2022)

SomeGuy said:


> That was one of the drive axles holding a wheel.



Wow. Looks like you could use some suspension improvements. Maybe tubular steel? Or axle dampening?


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## SomeGuy (May 5, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Wow. Looks like you could use some suspension improvements. Maybe tubular steel? Or axle dampening?


I've got some 1/2" steel rod on hand that I'll try first.

The suspension amounts to the rubber in the tires, there's nothing else. I'd have to do a completely new design to add suspension, though maybe version 2.


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## Susquatch (May 5, 2022)

SomeGuy said:


> I've got some 1/2" steel rod on hand that I'll try first.
> 
> The suspension amounts to the rubber in the tires, there's nothing else. I'd have to do a completely new design to add suspension, though maybe version 2.



I actually suspected that, but didn't want to jump in with that foot first. 

Basically that means the load on the axle can go to infinity minus a tire whenever the thing tries to fly........


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## SomeGuy (Oct 5, 2022)

Here's the finale...or failnale...I needed to wrap this up and it's been months, but at least some conclusion to this build and hints about what is to come:


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## CWret (Oct 5, 2022)

I just watched the tank build from the start - well done! - It was an ambitious/creative undertaking and it ended up being a good learning experience. Thanks for sharing that with us.


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## SomeGuy (Oct 5, 2022)

CWret said:


> I just watched the tank build from the start - well done! - It was an ambitious/creative undertaking and it ended up being a good learning experience. Thanks for sharing that with us.


Thanks for watching it...it was, something. I have a lot of ideas on how to improve it for a version 2.

Get your mill yet?


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## Susquatch (Oct 6, 2022)

SomeGuy said:


> Here's the finale...or failnale...I needed to wrap this up and it's been months, but at least some conclusion to this build and hints about what is to come:



Looks to me like you had a riot making and failing that nale.....

Love your Tupperware Nale garage too..... 

Although I know now that it will never happen, I always wanted to build a tracked tank. In fact, we drive past the old armory every so often and they have a tracked tank on display. I think sometimes about buying one and using it to work dirt on my farm. How cool would that be! 

Prolly not cool at all. In fact, I bet it's an oven inside one of those! But hey, there is a little boy hiding inside every old man someplace.


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## 6.5 Fan (Oct 6, 2022)

It was fun following the build. 2 thumbs up.


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## CWret (Oct 6, 2022)

@Susquatch  said "I bet it's an oven inside one of those! But hey, there is a little boy hiding inside every old man someplace."

True story:
My Dad was a tank Commander during WWII. He didn't say a lot about the War until his later years. He did say that inside the tank was not the most comfortable place to be but better than a muddy ditch. The worst part was the stale air + the fumes from firing their gun (gunpowder smoke trapped inside). A Canadian tank Commander (Commander or Platoon Leader) was in charge of 4 tanks. Four Canadian tanks were considered to be a fair fight against one German tank. During battle, the Commander would usually have his head sticking out of the turret so he could direct the other 3 tanks that would be all closed up. Near the end of the War, his tank was hit and he was blown out of the turret like a champagne cork. They were retreating at the time. They couldn't carry out the bodies and only saved the wounded. He was left for dead with a broken back and was paralyzed. The next day when the Germans were collecting their wounded they pushed his body off the road and into a muddy ditch. He couldn't move but could hear & see them and he knew a bit of German. One German said, "he isn't stiff" (no rigor mortis). The other German said "so shoot him" and the guy shot my Dad twice (he apparently wasn't a very good shot). The next day the Germans retreated and the battle lines changed again. The Canadians were collecting bodies on a wagon. They noticed he wasn't stiff so they threw him in the back of the Jeep instead of onto the wagon. They still didn't think he was alive. 
Anyhow - after being patched up and sent home, he spent many months recovering at Sunnybrook (Toronto). He always had a sore back but that never stopped him from leading a normal life and a successful career. Throughout his life, it was a regular occurrence for a piece of shrapnel to work its way out and break through his skin like a large sliver. I was visiting when my Mother pulled a piece out of his back when he was 90 and still living at home. He passed peacefully at 92.

CW


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## SomeGuy (Oct 6, 2022)

CWret said:


> @Susquatch  said "I bet it's an oven inside one of those! But hey, there is a little boy hiding inside every old man someplace."
> 
> True story:
> My Dad was a tank Commander during WWII. He didn't say a lot about the War until his later years. He did say that inside the tank was not the most comfortable place to be but better than a muddy ditch. The worst part was the stale air + the fumes from firing their gun (gunpowder smoke trapped inside). A Canadian tank Commander (Commander or Platoon Leader) was in charge of 4 tanks. Four Canadian tanks were considered to be a fair fight against one German tank. During battle, the Commander would usually have his head sticking out of the turret so he could direct the other 3 tanks that would be all closed up. Near the end of the War, his tank was hit and he was blown out of the turret like a champagne cork. They were retreating at the time. They couldn't carry out the bodies and only saved the wounded. He was left for dead with a broken back and was paralyzed. The next day when the Germans were collecting their wounded they pushed his body off the road and into a muddy ditch. He couldn't move but could hear & see them and he knew a bit of German. One German said, "he isn't stiff" (no rigor mortis). The other German said "so shoot him" and the guy shot my Dad twice (he apparently wasn't a very good shot). The next day the Germans retreated and the battle lines changed again. The Canadians were collecting bodies on a wagon. They noticed he wasn't stiff so they threw him in the back of the Jeep instead of onto the wagon. They still didn't think he was alive.
> ...



That is absolutely incredible and truly a testimate of sheer human will to survive.


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## historicalarms (Oct 6, 2022)

SomeGuy said:


> That is absolutely incredible and truly a testimate of sheer human will to survive.


Those boys&girls will have my undying admiration forever, truly a tougher breed than we are or have now.

    But....getting back to that "tank thing" ...when are you going to get to the real interesting stuff...the artillery!! I am almost finished building a miniature (21" barrel to be Can legal) "interuped thread " breech loading repro of a WW11 artillery piece. Muzzle break & recoil dampener up next then the carriage.


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## SomeGuy (Oct 6, 2022)

historicalarms said:


> Those boys&girls will have my undying admiration forever, truly a tougher breed than we are or have now.
> 
> But....getting back to that "tank thing" ...when are you going to get to the real interesting stuff...the artillery!! I am almost finished building a miniature (21" barrel to be Can legal) "interuped thread " breech loading repro of a WW11 artillery piece. Muzzle break & recoil dampener up next then the carriage.


Please start a thread on that, would be really interesting!!


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