# End Mill Reconditioning In Calgary



## YYCHM (Feb 21, 2019)

Is there any place in Calgary that reconditions (sharpens) end mills?


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## ducdon (Feb 21, 2019)

I've wondered that too. Would have to be big ones to make it cost effective. Just cheaper to toss and buy new. I have some over 1 inch that could use a touch up.

P.S. Maybe you could buy a tool and cutter grinder and help out your friends on the forum? hint hint!


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## John Conroy (Feb 21, 2019)

I had some end mills re-sharpened at European Cutters in Edmonton. I DO NOT recommend them. When I dropped them off I was quoted a price per end mill. When I went to pick them up the bill was more than double what I was quoted. Some unpleasant words were exchanged and the owner reduced the bill but it was still more than I was quoted with no reasonable explanation as to why.
I now buy carbide end mills on Ali Express and when they dull I scrap them. They cost less new than it would cost to sharpen them.

My neighbor is a licensed machinist and the company he works for sends their end mills to someone in Red Deer for sharpening. He says it's quite reasonable and told me he would send mine with theirs when they do their next order but I haven't taken him up on that yet.


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## Bofobo (Feb 21, 2019)

We have a carbide sharpening shop in bowness (NW calgary) .... its an older gentleman and as i inderstand it, he does it for something to do. Shop local 

Keeping in mind I've never been inside, I have no idea what his limitations are. That being said, perhaps its time I investigated


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## PeterT (Feb 21, 2019)

They have been there since I grew up in the hood. I recall my dad used to take some of his woodworking blades there but never occurred to me he might be set up to sharpen other things. 
Keep us posted, that could come in handy.
https://www.yellowpages.ca/bus/Alberta/Calgary/Carbide-Saw-Service-Calgary/2160603.html


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## YYCHM (Feb 21, 2019)

Bofobo said:


> We have a carbide sharpening shop in bowness (NW calgary) .... its an older gentleman and as i inderstand it, he does it for something to do. Shop local
> 
> Keeping in mind I've never been inside, I have no idea what his limitations are. That being said, perhaps its time I investigated



I have HSS end mills that need attention.  Would be interested to know if the Bowness guy does those as well.


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## Janger (Feb 21, 2019)

Me too. Mike you have a task now to investigate!


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## Dabbler (Feb 21, 2019)

I have a a tool and Die grinder that is supposed to be able to do it.  Trouble is, I need another year to recondition it. (I've had it 18 months - I need a round tuit right away!) Second, it does take some  skill to use it well.

If anyone has donor broken or really dull HSS end mills that I can buy cheap, then let me know!


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## YYCHM (Feb 21, 2019)

Dabbler said:


> If anyone has donor broken or really dull HSS end mills that I can buy cheap, then let me know!



You're willing to pay for broken end mills?  What are you planning to do with them?


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## Dabbler (Feb 22, 2019)

yychobbymachinist - teach myself sharpening, rather than chew up $100 Cleveland cutters that I currently own.

I could use chinesium HSS new-bought cutters, but why buy cutters just to resharpen?
- I'd love to also get all the carbide broken cutters I can find.


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## John Conroy (Feb 22, 2019)

I'd be happy to donate a few if you return some of them sharpened!


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## Dabbler (Feb 22, 2019)

deal!


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## historicalarms (Feb 22, 2019)

I think it was in the Guy Lautard "Bedside Machinist" series of books that offered a couple of in-depth descriptions on how to "home shop build" an endmill sharpening jig to pair up with a tool-post grinder.

   I wish I lived closer to Calgary (on very rare instances if the truth comes out), I have a small drawer very well populated with endmills suitable for your "learning curve" and know a couple of shops in Red Deer that I could get pails of used endmills & carbide inserts.


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## RobinHood (Feb 23, 2019)

All Blades Canada Inc in Calgary / Edmonton will sharpen endmills. I spoke with them about it 3 weeks ago when I got my new bandsaw blades. They used to do it in-house. Now they farm it out. It used to be x$ per endmill, depending on size ( iirc they said $25 for small ones). Now they get charged depending on time required (set-up time); they said it would likely be more than $40 per.

This is the problem: even though I have a fully tooled Clarkson T&G, I have not used it yet to sharpen small endmills. It takes quite some time to set all the angles and reliefs. And they are different for each size / each type.  So I just use my stash of EMs until I have no sharp ones left. Only then will I set-up and re-sharpen them. I am doing the same with the drill bits. Should be good for another 5-10 years at the present rate...


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## RobinHood (Feb 23, 2019)

The Peter Stanton from Edge Precision on YouTube shows how he grinds a carbide endmill in this videos using a high precision 5 axis CNC grinder: 




It might give you more of an appreciation why regrinding small, relatively inexpensive HSS or Carbide EMs is not economical for a job shop when you can make new ones much faster once you are programmed...


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## ducdon (Feb 23, 2019)

Just looked on line at KBC Tools. Their everyday price on a 1/2 inch 2 flute HSS end mill is $14.20 Cdn.  4 flute of the same size at Busy Bee is $12.99. Better prices when on sale or in packages. What price point would you want to see to justify re-conditioning? Also if reconditioning requires grinding the flutes the mill will cut under size.


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## Janger (Feb 23, 2019)

RobinHood said:


> The Peter Stanton from Edge Precision on YouTube shows how he grinds a carbide endmill in this videos using a high precision 5 axis CNC grinder:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for posting this @RobinHood - interesting video. 20 minutes on going through all the details and then 15 minutes machine time on that 5 axis. I can see why end mills, decent ones, are pretty expensive.

How much is the Numroto software? I could find a price googling. and how much is a 5 axis tool grinder?

I read the comments for the video, the author says:

Edge Precision
4 months ago
I bought this machine used. A new one depending on the options and tooling you get with the machine. It would be in the range of 500-650 thousand dollars.

Who is the manufacture of the machine ?
Edge Precision
8 months ago
The manufacturer is Star Grinder. They also make the Star gun drills. They are located in the state of Michigan in the USA. Not the same company that makes the screw machines.


The economics of his business are not clear to me. He says he does not make tooling commercially because he can't compete with the commercial manufacturers. So he is just grinding tools for his internal use - because he can get them faster and for somewhat less than ordering them made for him. Say he bought that machine for $200K - Straight line depreciation of 200K over 10 years (!) is $1666 a month. So he would need to be making at least that much in tooling each month for his jobs, not counting materials or his time. I'll have to watch more of his videos - maybe this makes more sense based on what he does.


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## RobinHood (Feb 23, 2019)

@Janger : I have followed him for quite some time. There is a video where he explains his relationship with the place he has access to the “fancy machines”. It used to be his company. He sold it, but they call him in for all the special, intricate, limited production run stuff. He mostly runs a big MAZAK for them. He has a small private shop where he has a HAAS lathe and also does some blacksmithing.

The main purpose of me citing his video was to show what is involved to make an EM.
If you want to recondition a used one, about 75% of the set-up steps still need to be followed initially for each size and model of EM to be redone. Hence the rather high price for regrinding. All Blade Inc. basically said that for anything less than a ~$50-75 tool, it is not economical. They will probably still do it for you if you insist and decide to sharpen a $10 endmill, but why would you?

As stated earlier, I am collecting my dull EM and drills. At some point I will set up my manual T&C and sharpen them. Mostly for my own practise and learning process. If I can get them back to a functioning state and get some more miles out of them, great. If not, we’ll so be it.


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## Dabbler (Feb 23, 2019)

That's why I want to collect old dull end mills - to practice with, and if successful, end up with a few sharp ones for my labour.


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## John Conroy (Feb 24, 2019)

Dabbler, I'll  drop some off with you next time I'm  in Cow Town.


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## Dabbler (Feb 24, 2019)

I'll pour the coffee!  Thanks!


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## ducdon (Feb 24, 2019)

Dabbler said:


> I have a a tool and Die grinder that is supposed to be able to do it.  Trouble is, I need another year to recondition it. (I've had it 18 months - I need a round tuit right away!) Second, it does take some  skill to use it well.
> 
> If anyone has donor broken or really dull HSS end mills that I can buy cheap, then let me know!



I have 3 I could donate to the cause. I try to be gentle with my cutting tools. I have to pay for them. Sometimes I think a light stone or hone would do the trick instead of a regrind. A honing fixture ....hmmm, sounds like a project!


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## Tom O (Feb 24, 2019)

I was thinking about sharpening endmills a few years ago and bought these.






The shaft is suppose to float on a air cushion and needs the pin that rides in the flute for positioning ( sticking out the front ) then it rocks forward for one of the cuts. I still need to find some collets for it though.



This is the backside of the grinder with one tray and table off looking at the height-adaptability for a possible marriage of the two. The rotation is reversible.


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## YYCHM (Feb 24, 2019)

Sooooo….. I take it... there is no such thing as a magical electric pencil sharpener (expensive) out there for end mills. Something some one would invest in and recover the cost for over time eventually turning a profit.

Still, I would like to have my 1", 3/4", 1/2" and 3/8" end mills tuned up.  I don't consider the larger ones to be disposable.

Dabbler,

I have some small stuff to donate to your cause.  Pretty messed up though.  Got a drop box setup somewhere?


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## Dabbler (Feb 24, 2019)

We can meet anywhere you like.  My shop is in the NW, near McNight and 4th. Meet up via PM?


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## RobinHood (Feb 25, 2019)

Tom O said:


> I was thinking about sharpening endmills a few years ago and bought these.


Hi Tom O that’s a nice piece of kit you have there. It looks like an air spindle that could be used on a Clarkson Tool & Cutter grinder. It for sure is used to sharpen the flutes of cutters.


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## Dabbler (Feb 25, 2019)

Tom O said:


> I was thinking about sharpening endmills a few years ago and bought these.



Very nice condition!  Sort of the Porshe of spinners!


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## Tom O (Feb 25, 2019)

It is a start I’d still have to mount it height wise and it would be nice to have it rotational so marked of in degrees with a feed system.
I’ll try to make a collet on the mill.


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## Tom Kitta (Feb 27, 2019)

I just lost a bid for a tool cutter grinder (without accessories) - it went for $1300 plus fees (I thought that $1400 or more for it plus fees is too much given that some people get these for like few hundred $ as they are mostly obsolete machine nowadays). It was British made, smaller model about 1000lbs.

On the other hand I only tried to sharpen an end-mill once in a fixture - so maybe spending under $2000 for a TCG was indeed a bad idea & I dodged a bullet. 

They sell on kajiji in Ontario for between $1000 - $1500.


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## Dabbler (Mar 2, 2019)

thanks!


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## ducdon (Mar 3, 2019)

Interesting DIY end mill sharpening fixture. He uses it on a horizontal mill but it could probably be adapted to a vertical mill (angle plate, or). And it only does the end and not the flutes. But for me a touch up on the flutes would probably extend the life of an end mill quite nicely.


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## Tom Kitta (Mar 4, 2019)

I have the same thing - it costs like 30 bucks and uses 5C collets. I used it once on the surface grinder. It takes time to do the end properly. I guess its better then nothing. I think these have been around for a while - well known guys on youtube show their use as well.


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## kylemp (Mar 4, 2019)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> Sooooo….. I take it... there is no such thing as a magical electric pencil sharpener (expensive) out there for end mills. Something some one would invest in and recover the cost for over time eventually turning a profit.
> 
> Still, I would like to have my 1", 3/4", 1/2" and 3/8" end mills tuned up.  I don't consider the larger ones to be disposable.
> 
> ...


There is.. Darex makes them.. I have one, but I've never used it.

This is the one I have, but they make other models


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## Tom Kitta (Mar 5, 2019)

I also have an air bearing end mill sharpening fixture... also never used it. This is why I didn't want to spend arm and a leg on tool cutter grinder - I mean if you have some fixtures you never used in years probably you can live without them. 

I think we are spoiled with carbide. Tool cutter grinder in the 1980s cost 20k for smallest one - now outside of some enthusiast need in a garage its mostly obsolete - CNC can cut any shape and HSS is rarely used for any production work. 

I almost never use my HSS endmills. Why would I if carbide is available? Not only carbide stuff lasts forever it can be abused more - i.e. you can "force" somewhat dull carbide end mill to cut but you cannot do it with HSS - AFAIK. 

The only use for TCG would be sharpening slab mills for the horizontal mill I have - they go hand in hand - blast from the past. This was my main impetus into trying to get one and fighting well over $1000 to get it.


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## ducdon (Mar 5, 2019)

Tom O said:


> I was thinking about sharpening endmills a few years ago and bought these.View attachment 4482View attachment 4483
> The shaft is suppose to float on a air cushion and needs the pin that rides in the flute for positioning ( sticking out the front ) then it rocks forward for one of the cuts. I still need to find some collets for it though.View attachment 4484
> This is the backside of the grinder with one tray and table off looking at the height-adaptability for a possible marriage of the two. The rotation is reversible.


I have a book titled MetalWorking from village press. It's a collection of articles from Home Shop Machinist I think. One of the articles is a DIY Tool and Cutter grinder. Major components of the project are the air spindle and the grinder. Since you already have those it might be a very do-able project. I'd loan the book if your interested?


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## Janger (Mar 6, 2019)

Th


kylemp said:


> There is.. Darex makes them.. I have one, but I've never used it.
> 
> This is the one I have, but they make other models



thats an interesting tool @kylemp  Kyle. Fancy stuff. An auction purchase? Never used it?


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## Dabbler (Mar 6, 2019)

Thanks for the package from Falchurch!  the 3/8 shank is a handy size to practice with!


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## YYCHM (Mar 6, 2019)

Dabbler said:


> Thanks for the package from Falchurch!  the 3/8 shank is a handy size to practice with!



If you can restore those wounded soldiers you are well on your way to becoming a candidate for sainthood LOL.

Have fun with them.

Cheers


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## Alexander (Mar 7, 2019)

Look up Taylor tool works. He is local, apparently his work is the best you can get.


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## PeterT (Mar 7, 2019)

Here is the website. Looks interesting. Not a lot of details on the website itself & I couldn't determine any info was downloadable quite yet. 
http://www.taylortoolworks.com/


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## Dabbler (Mar 7, 2019)

looks good.  If they sell new Carbide end mills, I'll give them a try.


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## Alexander (Mar 7, 2019)

They make new carbide endmills that get rebranded by some of the big companies. He has the  best equipment and is the only shop set up to cut varriable flute geometry in western canada. My coworkers say his shop is amazing. Hopefully i get to see it some time


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