# Hello from Ontario



## Aliva (Nov 27, 2021)

I just found this site and am looking forward to participating in discussions and maybe able to offer some insights on various machining issues, and certainly learn more about the world of hobby machining 
I'm not a machinist by trade but have worked with many in the course of my career as a millwright and HDEM .I do it for the fun of it. I'm a member of other machinist forums  mostly US based, so it's  nice to have found this  forum geared to the Canadian perspective. 
I presently have a 12x36 lathe and a 9x42 knee mill, (Bridgeport clone) along with a good variety of tooling for each.


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## DPittman (Nov 27, 2021)

Welcome nice to have you along.
I've always sort of thought a millright and a machinists were almost the same thing.  Can you tell me the differences.


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## Aliva (Nov 27, 2021)

Machinist's normally work in a shop environment with various machinery types from lathes mills surface grinders broches and more. Millwrights mostly work in the field environment maintaining and installing industrial machinery. Although the millwright has some training in using lathes and mills, the depth of the training is very shallow. Where I used to work we had a dedicated machine shop of about 30 machinists, were as the millwrights also known as industrial mechanics, numbered in the 200 range. Few machinists go into the field for equipment repairs and installation. Millwrights will install, and or troubleshoot ,lets say, a large conveyor , ventilation, piping or hydraulic, pneumatic system or  other components. Where i worked we have called machinists in to do coupling alignments as we didn't have the proper tools to do it. My department later  purchased a $15,000.00 laser alignment tool. We never called a machinist in again. In fact they borrowed our tool several times as it was  much better than what they had. 
Hope this explains the basic differences.


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## DPittman (Nov 27, 2021)

Aliva said:


> Machinist's normally work in a shop environment with various machinery types from lathes mills surface grinders broches and more. Millwrights mostly work in the field environment maintaining and installing industrial machinery. Although the millwright has some training in using lathes and mills, the depth of the training is very shallow. Where I used to work we had a dedicated machine shop of about 30 machinists, were as the millwrights also known as industrial mechanics, numbered in the 200 range. Few machinists go into the field for equipment repairs and installation. Millwrights will install, and or troubleshoot ,lets say, a large conveyor , ventilation, piping or hydraulic, pneumatic system or  other components. Where i worked we have called machinists in to do coupling alignments as we didn't have the proper tools to do it. My department later  purchased a $15,000.00 laser alignment tool. We never called a machinist in again. In fact they borrowed our tool several times as it was  much better than what they had.
> Hope this explains the basic differences.


Oh very good now I know.  That must of been quite the business/industry you worked in.  I'd love the opportunity to go work for free for 3-6 months in various work situation like that just for the experience.


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## Aliva (Nov 27, 2021)

I worked for INCO Ltd for 271/2 years. They were bought out by Vale Canada ( Brazilian owned)  in 2006 There are about 4,000 employees here in Sudbury operating 6  mines one smelter and one nickel refinery. Vale world wide has about 70,000 employees


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## Chip Maker (Nov 27, 2021)

Hello from Peterborough! My in-laws are from Capreol. Mostly a railroad town but quite a few work in the mines.


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## 6.5 Fan (Nov 27, 2021)

Welcome from SK. I always wondered what the difference was between millwright  and a machinist. thanks


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## Canadium (Nov 27, 2021)

Hello from Hamilton!


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## Susquatch (Nov 27, 2021)

Hello from Farm country south of Chatham Ontario. My employer for 37 years had people from every corner of the skilled trades spectrum including millwrights. You will fit right in.


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## Dusty (Nov 27, 2021)

Welcome aboard from Saskatchewan, thanks for sharing the difference between machinist and millwrights.  Never to old to learn they say.


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## CalgaryPT (Nov 27, 2021)

Welcome from Calgary.


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## Mcgyver (Nov 28, 2021)

welcome to the forum


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## LenVW (Nov 28, 2021)

Welcome to the group.
I was a manual machinist 30 years ago and spent the last 20 years designing and building industrial process machinery along with many Millwrights and Engineers, all in the Kitchener area of SW Ontario.


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## darrin1200 (Nov 28, 2021)

Welcome from Eastern Ontario
Technically, my Weapons Tech trade, in the military, translates over to millwright. We cover all the same basic skills, but we just don the get to use them as much any more.


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## Aliva (Nov 29, 2021)

darrin1200 said:


> Welcome from Eastern Ontario
> Technically, my Weapons Tech trade, in the military, translates over to millwright. We cover all the same basic skills, but we just don the get to use them as much any more.


My son in law is stationed at CFB Edmonton. He was servicing tanks in Oromucto then took a promotion to Edmonton, where he runs a shop.


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## darrin1200 (Nov 30, 2021)

Aliva said:


> My son in law is stationed at CFB Edmonton. He was servicing tanks in Oromucto then took a promotion to Edmonton, where he runs a shop.


He must be a RCEME tech. I worked on Tank maintenance there for 4 years, repairing the guns.


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## WarrenB (Nov 30, 2021)

Hello from Vancouver. I just joined the forum and am amazed by the depth of experience everyone has.


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## Susquatch (Nov 30, 2021)

WarrenB said:


> Hello from Vancouver. I just joined the forum and am amazed by the depth of experience everyone has.



Hello Warren, Welcome from Ontario.


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## Aliva (Nov 30, 2021)

darrin1200 said:


> He must be a RCEME tech. I worked on Tank maintenance there for 4 years, repairing the guns.


What a coincidence , he also worked on the guns, the sighting electronics and optics, I think. i believe he said he was RCEME, too many acronyms for me to remember.


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## historicalarms (Nov 30, 2021)

I once had a Millwright explain machinist/millwright difference to me as " a machinist takes the work to his machines and a millwright takes his files, hammers & chisels to the work.


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## Susquatch (Nov 30, 2021)

historicalarms said:


> I once had a Millwright explain machinist/millwright difference to me as " a machinist takes the work to his machines and a millwright takes his files, hammers & chisels to the work.



I heard the same ditty slightly different. 

A machinist takes the work to his tools, and a millright takes his tools to the work. 

The other ditty I used to hear was that machinists make stuff and millwrights fix and move stuff. In that sense, we are all the same in retirement.


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## Aliva (Nov 30, 2021)

Engineers design stuff, millwrights make it work.


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## Susquatch (Nov 30, 2021)

Aliva said:


> Engineers design stuff, millwrights make it work.



I heard that one the other way around too!

An engineers job is to make it strong enough so the millright can't break it. That way they know it's safe in the customers hands.


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## Dusty (Nov 30, 2021)

Aliva said:


> What a coincidence , he also worked on the guns, the sighting electronics and optics, I think. i believe he said he was RCEME, too many acronyms for me to remember.



RCEME acronyms meaning: Corps of Royal Canadian Electrical and Mechanical Engineers  

Check them out:   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corps_of_Royal_Canadian_Electrical_and_Mechanical_Engineers


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## LenVW (Nov 30, 2021)

In my experiences as a mechanical designer and project manager:

A machinist turns and mills material into parts that are specified on component drawings.
They have extensive knowledge about the capabilities of machining workcenters and the accuracy achievable with various processes.

A millwright builds machinery to suit the application using skill and experience. They have vast experience with part interaction and suitable material characteristics. They have more skill related to forming and fusion of materials to produce components.

On development projects, I had hoped for both of these people to be on the build team. The machinist to produce parts and the millwright to assemble and fit them together.


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## Susquatch (Nov 30, 2021)

LenVW said:


> In my experiences as a mechanical designer and project manager:
> 
> A machinist turns and mills material into parts that are specified on component drawings.
> They have extensive knowledge about the capabilities of machining workcenters and the accuracy achievable with various processes.
> ...



That's very interesting. It wasn't quite like that in my career.

That's a pretty good description of a machinist, but millwrights didn't touch parts - just machines and process equipment. 

Highly union environment though. 

Funny how such things can vary. I would not have guessed that. 

I like my new world. I get to do everything from end to end. No rules about who does what anymore.


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## LenVW (Dec 1, 2021)

I might add that depending on the company and it’s resources, the work is distributed to the group that needs the job and show that they are capable of success.

One company may have machinists dedicated to completing customer orders while the mechanics and millwrights are better suited to the task of fitting and trialing machinery.

Believe me, there is much more satisfaction in seeing the machinery come together and operate versus making the initial components on a mill & lathe. 
It was the reason that I went on to Machinery Design and Project Management after I worked as a manual machinist with Ex-Cell-O Corp.


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## darrin1200 (Dec 1, 2021)

Aliva said:


> What a coincidence , he also worked on the guns, the sighting electronics and optics, I think. i believe he said he was RCEME, too many acronyms for me to remember.


Yeah, it is a small world. I was a Weapon Tech and he is an EO Tech. We worked hand in hand in the turrets.


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## LenVW (Dec 1, 2021)

It comes down to the company culture.

I worked at a company for a couple years on improving existing tooling sets. With the help of maintenance and production managers we altered the existing production equipment to improve products and efficiency.
Then I was handed the job of designing an entirely new production process along with 5 sets of size tooling.
We were awarded a PCT patent for our efforts.

We were machinists and college technologists.
There was no P.Eng in the group and because we were designing ‘in-plant’ equipment there was no need for an Engineer’s STAMP on the design drawings.
I did all the stress analysis calculations and material specs for the structural frame and aluminum alloys used in the tooling castings.

The company and their executives decide who is going to come up with NEW ideas and improve operations.


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## Aliva (Dec 1, 2021)

LenVW said:


> It comes down to the company culture.
> 
> I worked at a company for a couple years on improving existing tooling sets. With the help of maintenance and production managers we altered the existing production equipment to improve products and efficiency.
> Then I was handed the job of designing an entirely new production process along with 5 sets of size tooling.
> ...


You were fortunate, everything at my former employer had to be stamped by and engineer for liability reasons. The company had a raft of engineers in all disciplines. They just very slow.


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## LenVW (Dec 1, 2021)

Aliva said:


> You were fortunate, everything at my former employer had to be stamped by and engineer for liability reasons. The company had a raft of engineers in all disciplines. They just very slow.


Luckily we were building machinery for ‘in-plant’ use. In-plant process machinery is not open to public access and falls under the Ministry of Labour as requiring safety enclosures to limit human access. The machinery was patented and only used in company facilities.
Years later, the corrugators that we built were reviewed for structural integrity and they were found to have 4 to 5 FOS. 
The company, ‘Big O Inc‘ had 14 plastic extrusion plants across Canada In the 1990s.
I was in one of the plants a few weeks ago and saw the machine still running.


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## Aliva (Dec 2, 2021)

LenVW said:


> Luckily we were building machinery for ‘in-plant’ use. In-plant process machinery is not open to public access and falls under the Ministry of Labour as requiring safety enclosures to limit human access. The machinery was patented and only used in company facilities.
> Years later, the corrugators that we built were reviewed for structural integrity and they were found to have 4 to 5 FOS.
> The company, ‘Big O Inc‘ had 14 plastic extrusion plants across Canada In the 1990s.
> I was in one of the plants a few weeks ago and saw the machine still running.


When I referred to liability , this was for employees safety not public. All safety provision were required as I'm sure in all industries. The company sure didn't want any compensation claims. Since the company fell under the OHSA for a mining plant, some of the regs are different than for a manufacturer, but I'm sure most are pretty close.
Glad to see your design is still functioning.


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## LenVW (Dec 2, 2021)

All of the line employees were extensively versed in the functions of the production machinery.
From the bulk resin handling to extruders, preforming dies, corrugator cycles, spray bath coolers and automated perforators. The extrusion lines would be classified as ‘hot work areas’ with dies operating over 250 degrees C.

What did you do at the company you worked for ?


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## Aliva (Dec 2, 2021)

I was hired as a Millwright ( industrial mechanic) I have a Millwright and HDEM ticket along with CWB certification in all positions including  high pressure  pipe. My last position was materials procurement and distribution coordinator for the utilities dept. which included power house, O2 plant. acid plant and SO2 plant


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## LenVW (Dec 2, 2021)

Sounds like a big facility in Sudbury.
The last time I worked for a company that big was Kellogg’s in London (1986-90).

Most of my employment was with smaller enterprises, where your job description changed depending on what you were working on that month. Interesting work that took me to the US, Australia and Europe for ‘Big O’ projects.


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## ShawnR (Dec 3, 2021)

Hi from Thunder Bay


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## Aliva (Dec 3, 2021)

LenVW said:


> Sounds like a big facility in Sudbury.
> The last time I worked for a company that big was Kellogg’s in London (1986-90).
> 
> Most of my employment was with smaller enterprises, where your job description changed depending on what you were working on that month. Interesting work that took me to the US, Australia and Europe for ‘Big O’ projects.


It's a fair size operation, there's around 4000 employees here, 2500 hourly 1500 staff. World wide I believe Vale has approximately 70,000 employees


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## LenVW (Dec 3, 2021)

Thanks for the information.
20 years ago Central Ontario Metal built some ‘mine shaft bracing‘ for Sifto Salt in Goderich.
I remember hearing about the miles of shafts under Lake Huron.

Does Sudbury still have a huge nickel deposit ?


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## Aliva (Dec 4, 2021)

There still is a massive amount of nickel in the area, it's  just getting deeper and more expensive to get to. #9 shaft at Creighton, has a shaft depth of 7200 feet to the loading pocket. A ramp then goes down to I believe 8800 feet. At that depth ventilation becomes more of an issue along with ground heat . I think Creighton 9 shaft is one of  the deepest in North American, but not sure. South African gold mines have some deeper shafts at around 13000 feet.


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## LenVW (Dec 4, 2021)

The mine operations are on a unbelievable scale. There are still HITACHI Dump Trucks being built near here in Guelph, but I think they are changing to a refitting & repair shop.
I think VALE has some operations here for material processing and telescopic belt conveyors.
I have setup training programs with the CWB in Milton. Our millwrights at Central Ontario Metal were multi-position welders and very creative metal formers.


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## MW/MC (Dec 18, 2021)

Aliva said:


> Engineers design stuff, millwrights make it work.


Welcome to the forum ! And engineers need hero’s to hey !!

Also a millwright/ machinist here !
sounds like a cool
Place with lots of great work !we used to have a cabin in field Ontario! 
Are you retired now ?


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## Aliva (Dec 18, 2021)

Yes been retired for 6 years next April. I've been to Field a few times, have a couple of friends in Sturgeon Falls


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