# Parker Majestic refurb



## David_R8 (Dec 6, 2020)

I thought I’d start a thread to document the general clean up of the Parker Majestic. 
I wrestled it into place this morning. 
I don’t have any in progress pics as I was too busy trying to keep it blocked amd level. 
Edit: I used my 2-ton engine hoist to lift and position the machine.

All in all it went well. I used two 10’ long straps each rated for 2600lbs in cradle configuration (12 footers would have been better) and ran a chain rated for 5 tons through the loops of the straps and connected the ends with a 2 ton connector. 

The hook was just above the spindle so I had clearance to the beam in my shop. 
Once the hoist was bearing the weight I pushed and turned it into place. 
Went well actually. 








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## YYCHM (Dec 6, 2020)

Not following.... what did you hoist it with?


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## David_R8 (Dec 6, 2020)

I used my 2-ton engine hoist 


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## David_R8 (Dec 8, 2020)

Took some time tonight to start cleaning up the P-M. 
Pulled the chuck so I could see the condition of the bed. It looks awful but it’s just dried oil.








The chuck has a funky actuation shaft so I wanted to investigate that and take pictures for the Walker folks so they can ID what’s required for a proper handle.




The chuck came apart very easily. The inside is coated in petrified grease. 
There’s virtually no wear on the internals or the lever, the fit on the stub on the chuck and the pin on the shaft is nice and snug. Just need to figure out how to remove the heaps of goo.
















Also pulled the table stops and middle limit thing (no idea what it’s actual name is), gave it a good wire brushing and vacuuming.
I don't plan on repainting it but this top surface will get painted so it's easier to clean.


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## PeterT (Dec 8, 2020)

This is going to be fun to watch. Do you have any parts/manual documentation to reference as you dismantle?


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## David_R8 (Dec 8, 2020)

PeterT said:


> This is going to be fun to watch. Do you have any parts/manual documentation to reference as you dismantle?


Parker Majestic sent me a copy of the service and parts manual. It's not a huge benefit as there are no disassembly instructions just some random cross section line drawings. For example, I have no idea how to remove the table. I know that it's a controlled by steel tapes but no idea how it's arranged.


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## francist (Dec 9, 2020)

David_R8 said:


> know that it's a controlled by steel tapes but no idea how it's arranged.



Must be like one of the old-style cable drafting machines that uses a continuous loop to pull the one side as you push on the other. It will be interesting to see the guts.


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## David_R8 (Dec 9, 2020)

francist said:


> Must be like one of the old-style cable drafting machines that uses a continuous loop to pull the one side as you push on the other. It will be interesting to see the guts.


Indeed. I expect it is something like that.
There's precious little information about these machines. B & S, and Harig seem to be the most common even though Parker Majestic is hailed as a 'Cadillac' of grinders.


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## David_R8 (Dec 9, 2020)

I heard from the Walker chuck folks today. 
The chuck has somewhat mysterious provenance. The block on the side must be a shop-made addition as is the square actuation drive. 
Advice is to clean all the goo out of the inside but to not separate the magnetic pack due to the risk of injury and damage to the components.
.25" of 90w gear oil is to be added to the base.
I'll have to either make a handle or re-make the square drive because it's a wobble-fest now. 
One minor question...how do I measure a hole to size a roll pin?


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## YYCHM (Dec 9, 2020)

David_R8 said:


> One minor question...how do I measure a hole to size a roll pin?



Use drill bit shanks or source a pin gauge set.


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## YotaBota (Dec 9, 2020)

Another option is to use transfer punches for sizing holes. 
Is the holed tapered? Something else to check.


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## RobinHood (Dec 9, 2020)

Perhaps the original folding handle interfered with the table edges - so they took it off and made an extension and just used a square drive handle they had kicking around?






the folding handle on my mag chuck is a really tight fit with the table.


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## David_R8 (Dec 9, 2020)

RobinHood said:


> Perhaps the original folding handle interfered with the table edges - so they took it off and made an extension and just used a square drive handle they had kicking around?
> 
> View attachment 12119
> 
> the folding handle on my mag chuck is a really tight fit with the table.


That's a possibility. The odd thing is that the handle in the middle of the chuck. I've not seen another like it.


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## RobinHood (Dec 10, 2020)

The handle location does look factory, no? Ah, so Walker is not entirely sure about the location of the handle.... I wonder if someone just used a Walker label on a “no-name” chuck?

Once it is all clean and functioning, then it really does not matter.


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## David_R8 (Dec 10, 2020)

It’s definitely factory. I did manage to find one by searching for the model “AXM-4854”
And you are absolutely correct that it doesn’t matter once it’s back together and functioning. 

https://www.shoppok.com/allentown/a,41,269075,Walker-AXM-6x18-magnetic-chuck----225--Quakertown-.htm


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## RobinHood (Dec 10, 2020)

That handle attachment looks even bigger that the newer, flex handle ones. Maybe it came off (and the extension built) as soon as the chuck was installed as it never really fit the table properly.


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## David_R8 (Dec 10, 2020)

RobinHood said:


> That handle attachment looks even bigger that the newer, flex handle ones. Maybe it came off (and the extension built) as soon as the chuck was installed as it never really fit the table properly.



That’s a very good assumption I think. 
I may just make a new one and use a wrench. Seems like a pretty easy solution. 


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## YYCHM (Dec 10, 2020)

Are you guys talking about this?


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## David_R8 (Dec 10, 2020)

Yup. 
The rectangular block and the square drive thing are not original. 
Underneath the square drive there is this round shaft and similar circular wear pattern which I suspect is from the original lever. 







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## RobinHood (Dec 10, 2020)

That is good detective work @David_R8. I bet it got sloppy over time and they improved it by adding the rectangular bushing bolted to the outside. I would agree with you that making a new, better fitting bushing and using a square drive will work just fine.


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## YYCHM (Dec 10, 2020)

David_R8 said:


> Yup.
> The rectangular block and the square drive thing are not original.
> Underneath the square drive there is this round shaft and similar circular wear pattern which I suspect is from the original lever.



Is that what takes the roll pin you were trying to size?


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## David_R8 (Dec 10, 2020)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> Is that what takes the roll pin you were trying to size?



Yup. 
The hole in the round shaft is larger than the hole in the square drive thing so it kinda flops around because it’s not held securely. Plus it’s a loose fit on the shaft. 


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## David_R8 (Dec 10, 2020)

RobinHood said:


> That is good detective work @David_R8. I bet it got sloppy over time and they improved it by adding the rectangular bushing bolted to the outside. I would agree with you that making a new, better fitting bushing and using a square drive will work just fine.



Surprisingly the fit of the shaft in the chuck housing is good, maybe a thousand or two of wiggle. 

Whatever grease/oil that was put in there in 1963 has given up the ghost and is no long providing any lubrication. 

I think when I clean and properly lubricate everything less force will be required to actuate the chuck. 


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## David_R8 (Dec 11, 2020)

I reassembled the chuck this morning.
Cleaned out the dried grease.







I was all set to fill it with 90w oil as directed by the Walker rep when I spied a hole in a corner.






Wanting to follow their advice and put oil in the base, I enlarged the hole to take a 10-32 set screw. I dipped the set screw in Permatex and screwed it in snug.
Filled it with a quarter inch of 90w oil, applied more Permatex to the edge of the base and popped on the mag plates.
Other than the plates being about 30 lbs and very hard to hold, it was a dead easy job.
The actuation shaft is still lousy but that's a job for another day.

I then turned my attention to cleaning the bed. I stuck a rag in the coolant outlet and liberally brushed the bed with paint thinner. Like some kind of archaeology dig, layer, upon layer of grinding grit slowly came loose. I scooped it out the muck and eventually got it grit free.
About a half dozen rags later, it's pretty clean.
On the other hand I am less clean.


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## David_R8 (Dec 11, 2020)

I lifted the table to inspect the ways.









They are in excellent condition with scraping marks fully visible and consistent along the length.
Unfortunately one of the steel tapes that moves the table was cracked almost all the way through.
So I need new drive tapes.


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## YYCHM (Dec 11, 2020)

David_R8 said:


> Unfortunately one of the steel tapes that moves the table was cracked almost all the way through.
> So I need new drive tapes.



What's a drive tape and is it in your images?


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## David_R8 (Dec 11, 2020)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> What's a drive tape and is it in your images?


Sorry no pics as I was completely covered in way oil and muck.

The table is moved by steel bands that look like the bands used to hold crates together.
There are two drums on a shaft connected to the table hand wheel. 
The inboard ends of the bands are connected to the drums and the other ends connected to each end of the table.
To move the table to the right, the hand wheel is turned clockwise, winding up the tape connected to the left end of the table and pulling the table to the right.
At the same time, tape connected to the right end is unwound from it's drum.


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## David_R8 (Dec 12, 2020)

Here are some pics of the parts for the table drive. 
This is the hub end of the band. 






This is the end that attaches to the table. 





This is the hub taken from the front of the machine. 
The hub closest to the camera is for the left side of the table, the other is for the right side.





This is taken from the back of the machine. 






These are the clamps that secure the band to the hub. 







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## francist (Dec 12, 2020)

Simple yet elegant.


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## David_R8 (Dec 12, 2020)

francist said:


> Simple yet elegant.



It is that. If only I could put it back together 


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## Brent H (Dec 12, 2020)

What is the trouble David? Need Drive tape?  what size are you needing?


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## David_R8 (Dec 12, 2020)

Brent H said:


> What is the trouble David? Need Drive tape? what size are you needing?



Yes the drives tapes are end of life. 
The one for the left side of the table broke at the hub end and the other has a crack in the same location. 

Thé band is .01” thick and .75” wide. 
I can find .01” x .50” wide shim tape but not .75”. 
I’m also considering turning a new hub amd using a cable as another Parker Majestic owner has done on two machines. 
Friday afternoon I sent an email to Parker Majestic to see if they can still supply them. Will see what happens Monday. 
Do you know of a source?


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## Tom O (Dec 12, 2020)

https://www.mscdirect.com/industrialtools/spring-steel-stock.html


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## David_R8 (Dec 12, 2020)

Tom O said:


> https://www.mscdirect.com/industrialtools/spring-steel-stock.html



I wonder if I could buy a six inch wide roll and saw off a 3/4” wide slice. 


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## PeterT (Dec 12, 2020)

https://www.kbctools.ca/itemdetail/?itemCode=1-955-A10

I imagine the trick would be how to accurately cut it. The stuff I have like that cut with scissors no problem, but might take some finesse to make a nice edge on one side. Spray adhesive on a sacrificial piece of wood comes to mind. How long are they?


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## David_R8 (Dec 12, 2020)

PeterT said:


> https://www.kbctools.ca/itemdetail/?itemCode=1-955-A10
> 
> I imagine the trick would be how to accurately cut it. The stuff I have like that cut with scissors no problem, but might take some finesse to make a nice edge on one side. Spray adhesive on a sacrificial piece of wood comes to mind. How long are they?




Thanks Peter, the left side is about three ft and the right side about 4 ft maybe. 
Maybe sandwich it between two pieces of plywood and run it through my table saw. 
The other option I thought about was to wrap it around a piece of 4” pvc and slice it off with my horizontal bandsaw. 
For $14 it’s worth a try.


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## Brent H (Dec 12, 2020)

How long is the tape?  Does it coil up like a return spring?
Like this: 
https://www.mcmaster.com/steel-coils/spring-type~strip/width~3-4/thickness~0-01/


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## francist (Dec 12, 2020)

I once “narrowed” (okay, channeled for any car guys) a tape measure spring to use as a clock mainspring. I turned a circular recess into a block of maple (wood lathe, standard tools) the width of the coiled spring and to the final depth that I wanted to achieve. I then wound the spring into the recess and proceeded to grind off the excess width which was of course sticking up proud of the maple block. I used the top surface of the block as the point to stop grinding, much like a file stop or filing block.

It was ugly, painful, and messy, but I got the job done and with a pretty good edge too. I used an angle grinder (did I mention ugly?) but there might be other ways with more finesse. Surface grinder jumps to mind.... 

Seems to me I may still have that stupid block around still complete with steel grinding water stains all over it 

—frank


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## Brent H (Dec 12, 2020)

Another source:

https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/02018513


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## David_R8 (Dec 12, 2020)

Brent H said:


> How long is the tape?  Does it coil up like a return spring?
> Like this:
> https://www.mcmaster.com/steel-coils/spring-type~strip/width~3-4/thickness~0-01/


It doesn't coil up now but given that it's 57 years old I'm not surprised. It may have been changed once but I doubt it.


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## PeterT (Dec 12, 2020)

Seeing the links provided by others for constant force springs makes me think maybe the alloy / heat treat is important. The shim stock is stainless I believe but I didn't check much more.
Maybe with some searching you can find exactly what you need in proper width.


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## David_R8 (Dec 12, 2020)

KBC has .010 shim stock in 25' rolls though it's only 1/2' wide. I think that could actually work as its secured on a pin and clamped really well at both ends


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## PeterT (Dec 12, 2020)

Does it have to coil like the Mcmaster link Brent included? If so I have a feeling shim stock might be hardened & too stiff? I think I have some .005" thick & its in a ~ 6x6" box with some tension. When you unwind a section it really wants to be flat.


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## David_R8 (Dec 12, 2020)

PeterT said:


> Does it have to coil like the Mcmaster link Brent included? If so I have a feeling shim stock might be hardened & too stiff? I think I have some .005" thick & its in a ~ 6x6" box with some tension. When you unwind a section it really wants to be flat.


Right now they don't coil, they are just laying out flat. It's actually a problem because they want to unwind from the hub leading to a big snarl when I'm trying to put it together. I spent a bunch of Friday afternoon wrestling with them.
Something that  coiled around the hub would actually be helpful I think.


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## RobinHood (Dec 12, 2020)

This is getting closer: 3/4” x 0.015 SS strapping

https://www.indmetalstrap.com/stainless-steel-strapping/


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## David_R8 (Dec 12, 2020)

I just measured the straps. One is 34" long the other is 54" long.
The ends that attach to the table have never been wound around the hub and are completely flat. So that leads me to think that they start out flat.
It can also be bent somewhat easily unlike blue steel such as this
Either this shim stock on a roll or the SS strapping (thanks @RobinHood) are the closest matches I've seen so far.|
This strapping might also work.


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## Brent H (Dec 13, 2020)

@David_R8 :  this may seem too Captain Obvious to work but what about a tape measure?  you can get stainless ones or even quality steel surveyor tape measures 3/4" wide.  Not sure on the thickness, but they are designed for many cycles of roll up, roll out, etc?  Just a thought?


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## David_R8 (Dec 13, 2020)

Brent H said:


> @David_R8 : this may seem too Captain Obvious to work but what about a tape measure? you can get stainless ones or even quality steel surveyor tape measures 3/4" wide. Not sure on the thickness, but they are designed for many cycles of roll up, roll out, etc? Just a thought?



Definitely not too Captain Obvious as it’s something I thought of once I saw those coiled springs. 

I have a junk 25 ft tape measure that I might disassemble and try. 

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## Brent H (Dec 13, 2020)

@David_R8 :  You have this already I take it? http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/10622/23422.pdf


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## Brent H (Dec 13, 2020)

@David_R8 :  looking at the Parker Majestic website they say they will rebuild old machines to OEM spec.  They should be able to supply you with the tape?

There is this at McMaster : https://www.mcmaster.com/2416K54/

Not that it helps if you cannot buy it - but "Steel Foil" seems to be another buzz word in the search


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## David_R8 (Dec 13, 2020)

Brent H said:


> @David_R8 : You have this already I take it? http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/10622/23422.pdf



I do. It’s not terribly useful though. 


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## David_R8 (Dec 13, 2020)

Brent H said:


> @David_R8 :  looking at the Parker Majestic website they say they will rebuild old machines to OEM spec.  They should be able to supply you with the tape?
> 
> There is this at McMaster : https://www.mcmaster.com/2416K54/
> 
> Not that it helps if you cannot buy it - but "Steel Foil" seems to be another buzz word in the search


I sent P-M an email on Friday afternoon, after business hours down East. Hopefully I will get a repky tomorrow. They have been very responsive so far.
I was awake at 0500 hrs today so was thinking that I'm going to try drilling new holes in the existing bands and see how that goes. 
I also thought about using heavy clamps on the table ends of the bands to put tension on them so they don't unwind. On the right side I might add a bungee cord to the wall for additional tension and out to the drill press stand on the left.
Working alone, a guy's got to be creative!


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## PeterT (Dec 13, 2020)

Drilling holes in thin, semi hardened metal like that can be fun. I'd suggest a smaller size to start just in case you get the wonky oblong effect & have to dress it round with a Dremel stone. Sometimes those graduated step drills help.


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## francist (Dec 13, 2020)

What size hole is required? I have an Atkins #5 butcher’s saw punch that might work as well.


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## David_R8 (Dec 13, 2020)

francist said:


> What size hole is required? I have an Atkins #5 butcher’s saw punch that might work as well.



I haven’t measured it but I’d estimate it to be 3/16”?


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## francist (Dec 13, 2020)

That’s what it looked like to me as well. My punch will make a 0.175” hole, so just under 3/16” ( 0.1875 ). At least that is the size of the slug that comes out — I’ll see if the actual hole is a shade larger. I’m in the shop anyway.


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## David_R8 (Dec 13, 2020)

francist said:


> That’s what it looked like to me as well. My punch will make a 0.175” hole, so just under 3/16” ( 0.1875 ). At least that is the size of the slug that comes out — I’ll see if the actual hole is a shade larger. I’m in the shop anyway.
> 
> View attachment 12176



Gosh that’s kind Frank. 


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## francist (Dec 13, 2020)

Hmm, hole is 0.172” or 11/64”
I can’t get a #17 bit through and a #18 is slack, but an 11/64” is juuust right.


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## David_R8 (Dec 13, 2020)

The pins are spot on 3/16”








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## francist (Dec 13, 2020)

Darn! Oh well, if you still wanted to use it to punch an undersize hole and open up from that, it’s here and I’d happily let you try it if you wanted. Otherwise I’ll leave you to your own devices


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## David_R8 (Dec 13, 2020)

I had a few minutes this afternoon and so I completely removed the table so I could figure out how to approach the problem. 
I installed the right side band and weighted the end with a C clamp so it wouldn’t unroll. 













The I marked and drilled the left side band and installed it. It was absolutely easy to drill. I was about to roll it in when I realized that it had to be wound on by hand so that it was at the length it would be with the table centred. So I snaked it under the other band till it was the right length. 
Attached another clamp to that end. 
Here they are both installed. 







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## YYCHM (Dec 13, 2020)

What's all that brown yuck in there?


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## Brent H (Dec 13, 2020)

@David_R8 : Is there enough tape to reconnect?


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## David_R8 (Dec 13, 2020)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> What's all that brown yuck in there?



The inside of the cross slide is painted red. There’s also some way oil in there. 
So it just looks bad but the oil is clean. 


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## David_R8 (Dec 13, 2020)

Brent H said:


> @David_R8 : Is there enough tape to reconnect?



There was enough. I haven’t put the table back on yet so that will be the acid test to see if I get full travel. I suspect I will but time will tell. 


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## Brent H (Dec 13, 2020)

@David_R8 : Sweet!!! Way to go.  Worst case is you loose a bit of full travel until you get some full length bands- and you will be able to hook them up because you have practice!!  Way to go David!!


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## David_R8 (Dec 13, 2020)

Brent H said:


> @David_R8 : Sweet!!! Way to go. Worst case is you loose a bit of full travel until you get some full length bands- and you will be able to hook them up because you have practice!! Way to go David!!



Thanks [mention]Brent H [/mention] 
I’ve been thinking about it for days, trying to figure out how to put it back together. 
While it’s apart I’m going to paint the top of the cross slide and the table. 
I can only think it will make it easier to keep clean with a coat or two of enamel. 


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## RobinHood (Dec 14, 2020)

This Stefan Gotteswinter video shows how the drill hardened spring steel...


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## David_R8 (Dec 14, 2020)

RobinHood said:


> This Stefan Gotteswinter video shows how the drill hardened spring steel...


Thanks, I discovered that the bands are actually not hardened spring steel. I was actually able to trim off the ragged, broken end using a pair of Klein 4" scissors. Drilling new holes was a bit of a trick because of the challenges of drilling thin material.


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## YotaBota (Dec 14, 2020)

I'm a bit late to the party but you could have clamped the band between two pieces of hardwood and then drilled the holes.


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## David_R8 (Dec 14, 2020)

YotaBota said:


> I'm a bit late to the party but you could have clamped the band between two pieces of hardwood and then drilled the holes.


After I drilled the first hole that's exactly what I did.


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## David_R8 (Dec 14, 2020)

Tried calling Parker Majestic today...no answer...


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## David_R8 (Dec 15, 2020)

Parker Majestic got back to me this morning. 
The bands are available. $60 for a pair including hardware. 
Done!


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## RobinHood (Dec 15, 2020)

Now that is customer service / product support! Hats off to P-M.


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## Brent H (Dec 15, 2020)

@David_R8 : Ya Baby!!   that is great! and OEM to boot!


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## David_R8 (Dec 15, 2020)

Just ordered them. 
Russ at P-M was super helpful. 
Told me the bands come with complete instructions on how to replace them. 
Also said they have 200 machines similar to mine that they refurbish including conversion to automatic feed using ball screws. 


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## Johnwa (Dec 15, 2020)

Their pricing is certainly better than LeBlonds!


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## historicalarms (Dec 15, 2020)

Just a suggestion for anybody trying to drill small holes into hardened material.
    I used to build home built rifles using WW 1  P14 or P17 actions. The front ring of these actions is very hard and drilling & tapping for scope mounts  was an exercise in broken drills & taps until I learned how to anneal the small spot used for the screw locations and leave the rest of the ring unchanged. This was passed on to me by an old gunsmith of international renown, Its easy.
      Take an ordinary 3 1/2" framing nail & cut the head off with sidecutter and chuck the nail shank into a drill press. Now clamp your hard workpiece to the press table ( clamp so it doesn't "skate around". turn your drill press on and drop the nail point to the spot you want annealed and hold it there, keeping pressure on it. The nail & the spot will shortly turn red and continue to hold until the nail fails ( the sharp end of the nail will fail very early in the process but just continue to press the nail shank). By the time the nail completely fails, the spot  on the workpiece will also be red...now, immediately after letting the nail retract, dump a hand full of an insulating material on the spot so it cools as slow as possible ( common baking flour or bag cement powder work excellent). 
     After cooling to room temp, you can easily center punch & drill& tap that spot while the rest of that ring will retain its hardness & easily withstand 50,000 lb cartridge pressures...at least I've never heard of one coming apart.


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## David_R8 (Dec 15, 2020)

historicalarms said:


> Just a suggestion for anybody trying to drill small holes into hardened material.
> I used to build home built rifles using WW 1 P14 or P17 actions. The front ring of these actions is very hard and drilling & tapping for scope mounts was an exercise in broken drills & taps until I learned how to anneal the small spot used for the screw locations and leave the rest of the ring unchanged. This was passed on to me by an old gunsmith of international renown, Its easy.
> Take an ordinary 3 1/2" framing nail & cut the head off with sidecutter and chuck the nail shank into a drill press. Now clamp your hard workpiece to the press table ( clamp so it doesn't "skate around". turn your drill press on and drop the nail point to the spot you want annealed and hold it there, keeping pressure on it. The nail & the spot will shortly turn red and continue to hold until the nail fails ( the sharp end of the nail will fail very early in the process but just continue to press the nail shank). By the time the nail completely fails, the spot on the workpiece will also be red...now, immediately after letting the nail retract, dump a hand full of an insulating material on the spot so it cools as slow as possible ( common baking flour or bag cement powder work excellent).
> After cooling to room temp, you can easily center punch & drill& tap that spot while the rest of that ring will retain its hardness & easily withstand 50,000 lb cartridge pressures...at least I've never heard of one coming apart.



That’s a great tip! 
Really appreciate it 


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## Hruul (Dec 15, 2020)

That is great information. Thanks.


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## David_R8 (Dec 15, 2020)

Update: the VFD for the grinder arrived today! 
Teco L510-101 from emotorsdirect.ca


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## David_R8 (Dec 15, 2020)

Also got this cool line drawing for the coolant pump.
It's a 3-phase pump so if I go the flood coolant route I have to get another VFD or setup a standalone system.
I'm thinking maybe a Fogbuster is a good route. Not keen on a mist system as I don't want the vapours hanging about... Happy to hear other perspectives.


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## PeterT (Dec 15, 2020)

David_R8 said:


> Update: the VFD for the grinder arrived today



I'm kind of curious about VFD retrofit motors for grinders for a project that wont leave my brain alone. Using your link, if I filter on approximate HP + 3-phase + general purpose, lots of candidates but all in the 1800 rpm range.
https://www.emotorsdirect.ca/search...al-Purpose&product-subsubcategory=Three~phase

When I click on any generic bench grinder, rpm is usually ~3500. I suspect related to target grinding SFPM at that wheel diameter
https://www.amazon.ca/King-Canada-K...d-search-10&pf_rd_t=BROWSE&pf_rd_i=7205691011

I know your application is probably different. Or maybe not, is it pulleyed up to achieve grinding rpm or is there some parameter I'm missing like KV?
Also for grinding applications, is there some parameter about the enclosure/breathing that makes it suitable for this kind of (potentially dirtier) duty?


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## David_R8 (Dec 15, 2020)

PeterT said:


> I'm kind of curious about VFD retrofit motors for grinders for a project that wont leave my brain alone. Using your link, if I filter on approximate HP + 3-phase + general purpose, lots of candidates but all in the 1800 rpm range.
> https://www.emotorsdirect.ca/search...al-Purpose&product-subsubcategory=Three~phase
> 
> When I click on any generic bench grinder, rpm is usually ~3500. I suspect related to target grinding SFPM at that wheel diameter
> ...


There's no pulleys, it's direct drive.
I've been told that a 1700 rpm motor can be run at 3400 rpm without issue.
For a grinding application I would only buy a TEFC - Totally Enclosed Fan Cooled motor.
That said, their filters don't seem to work 100% correctly. Send an email to them to ask. They are super helpful.


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## David_R8 (Dec 18, 2020)

Fired up the P-M today. Definitely exciting because I hadn't seen it run because there was no power in the warehouse. Running off a Teco VFD.
There's more noise from the fan on the VFD than from the spindle. 
Huge sigh of relief!


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## Dabbler (Dec 18, 2020)

very nice!  great to see it working!


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## David_R8 (Dec 18, 2020)

Dabbler said:


> very nice! great to see it working!



Thanks!
It’s a huge relief that it’s smooth and noise free.


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## David_R8 (Dec 21, 2020)

Had a few moments today to work on the grinder.
There was a pretty good buildup of crud on the table handwheel so I took it off for cleaning. I knew the hub that rotated the table worked off a gear from the handwheel shaft but I wasn't expecting this arrangement. The handwheel connects to a short axle with a small gear which drives this larger ring gear (I'm sure I don't have the terms right) which is attached to the hub shaft.
Quite an elegant arrangement.


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## historicalarms (Dec 22, 2020)

sounds like a sort of single gear planetary reduction set-up...they didn't spare "quality" when they built that thing.


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## David_R8 (Dec 22, 2020)

Bands are on! 

The instructions from Parker Majestic say to fill the oil wells halfway so I’m waiting on a delivery of way oil from KBC before I reset the table.


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## David_R8 (Dec 22, 2020)

It lives!
Undressed wheel because KBC is sold out of the diamond dresser I ordered. 
But the table went back on just fine. 
Table is silky smooth. 
Definitely takes some coordination to grind smoothly though I can see it being a bit of a zen activity.


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## PeterT (Dec 22, 2020)

Precision objects, here we come! LOL
Are you going to use the default coolant system or you have something else in mind?


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## David_R8 (Dec 22, 2020)

PeterT said:


> Precision objects, here we come! LOL
> Are you going to use the default coolant system or you have something else in mind?


The pump is 3-phase so I'll need to get another VFD or I could just buy a complete system. The tank is a real brute. It's made from 3/16" plate and probably weighs 100 lbs empty. Other than the tank and pump there are no other coolant parts. So all of that will also need to be sorted out.
One advantage of using the existing system is that the tank fits neatly under the grinder though I'd have to pull it forward to get it back in. 

So for about the same money as a VFD I could get a full system but I haven't done a lot of research yet.


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## Dabbler (Dec 23, 2020)

you can use a static phase converter for the small pump...


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## PeterT (Dec 23, 2020)

I'm not a pump expert but maybe its constant flow & more/less fluid at the nozzle might just be diverting more/less to bypass with the valve?. ie. maybe you just need a matching watt/rpm 110v motor vs variable rpm capability?


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## David_R8 (Dec 23, 2020)

PeterT said:


> I'm not a pump expert but maybe its constant flow & more/less fluid at the nozzle might just be diverting more/less to bypass with the valve?. ie. maybe you just need a matching watt/rpm 110v motor vs variable rpm capability?



Indeed. 
Coolant flow is likely best controlled by a valve and not by lowering the speed of the motor. 
The hesitation I have with the existing pump and tank is its weight. I have to use a hand truck to move it so trying to wrestle it out when it’s in the base against the wall would be a nightmare. It also requires the machine be a full 18” -24” away from the wall and I can’t afford to give away the floor space. 

I will likely clean it out, take the pump off the tank, put it in the tank and either put it back in place or store it and put a plastic tank system in it’s place.


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## historicalarms (Dec 23, 2020)

I have another "cheap bastard-farmer fix" for you. My lathe didn't come with a coolant system of any kind so, after reading all the old "how too" books on machining, I decided the only way I was going to get any satisfactory turning results was to purchase an add-on spray system...but holly damn they were "spencif" from the store-bought place.
     So the "what would I do if still farming" brain mater slooowly started to turn, and kicked into high gear the day I had to pick the wife up from the Greenhouse supply store she worked at. Just inside the door they had a display of garden/fish pond submersible pumpsso I picked out a mid priced one (around $40 but I cant remember the GPM rating). wish I could remember because it was twice what I needed. 
    She was a little late getting home from work that day as I needed to make a stop at CT for some feet of plastic tubing(1/4") and an assortment of brass hose couplers& a couple of valves. 
     I originally cobbled the pump & hose direct together with a nozzle at the end and plunked the pump into my reservoir with a couple gallons of cutting oil solution...a surplus five gallon plastic pail, and let er rip...this is when I discovered I had waaaay more GPM than I needed...that $hit was like red hot sauce...it went everywhere. 
    So back to the drawing board and installed a needle control valve in-line with a return line plumbed in just before it (between needle valve & pump). Now I could control the flow & pressure at the nozzle easily and the excess just flows back thru the return.
   runs on 110V & Total cost was probably under 60 bucks, 250 less than store-bought at the time. 
    I did "store bought " one of those $8 flex nozzles that BB sells later on for the system but that's about the only change I've made in the more than 20 yrs I've used it.


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## David_R8 (Dec 23, 2020)

historicalarms said:


> I have another "cheap bastard-farmer fix" for you. My lathe didn't come with a coolant system of any kind so, after reading all the old "how too" books on machining, I decided the only way I was going to get any satisfactory turning results was to purchase an add-on spray system...but holly damn they were "spencif" from the store-bought place.
> So the "what would I do if still farming" brain mater slooowly started to turn, and kicked into high gear the day I had to pick the wife up from the Greenhouse supply store she worked at. Just inside the door they had a display of garden/fish pond submersible pumpsso I picked out a mid priced one (around $40 but I cant remember the GPM rating). wish I could remember because it was twice what I needed.
> She was a little late getting home from work that day as I needed to make a stop at CT for some feet of plastic tubing(1/4") and an assortment of brass hose couplers& a couple of valves.
> I originally cobbled the pump & hose direct together with a nozzle at the end and plunked the pump into my reservoir with a couple gallons of cutting oil solution...a surplus five gallon plastic pail, and let er rip...this is when I discovered I had waaaay more GPM than I needed...that $hit was like red hot sauce...it went everywhere.
> ...


Now that I've stopped laughing at the mental images of coolant going everywhere at high pressure.... Thanks for the grins 
This is exactly the kind of setup I'm thinking about, but I think I hear you saying to go conservative on the GPH rating


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## RobinHood (Dec 23, 2020)

I agree with @historicalarms : you don’t need much. As a matter of fact, my Carolina Industrial bandsaw comes with a Little Giant pond pump for coolant from factory. Plenty of flow through a little 1/4” plastic tube. I even turn the needle valve all the way down so I just have a trickle.

My SM 1340 has the “submersible-pump-in-5 gallon-bucket” coolant system (designed by the previous owner). The tubing is 1/2”. I have only used it once - way too much flow. Coolant goes everywhere. So I just put the coolant in a spritzer bottle and use it that way (if I need coolant).

I prefer cutting oil for lubrication as I just don’t like the idea of water-based fluids on clean metal surfaces. Probably just paranoid that it would rust.

I know all modern CNC machines use coolant (water based for the most part) without any problems - maybe some day my old brain will be ok with it and i will switch.


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## kevin.decelles (Dec 23, 2020)

I went with this pump from the home depot.  It is made for a tile saw.  I have this in my parts washer barrel, very subtle flow.  $35

Home Depot Pump


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## kevin.decelles (Dec 23, 2020)

RobinHood said:


> Probably just paranoid that it would rust.



I won't machine until 1am and leave the shop without cleaning up any liquid either -- same paranoia.  

I use a soluble oil solution, as well as the 'kool-mist' stuff.  I have had very very minor rust but suspect it was not mixed sufficiently strong.


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## David_R8 (Dec 23, 2020)

kevin.decelles said:


> I went with this pump from the home depot. It is made for a tile saw. I have this in my parts washer barrel, very subtle flow. $35
> 
> Home Depot Pump



A parts washer pump would be ideal!


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## Dabbler (Dec 23, 2020)

I'm a fan of the spritzer technique.  Doesn't work for a SG...  Low flow pump with a nozzle directed at the work.  the lower the flow, the better....


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## francist (Dec 23, 2020)

David_R8 said:


> A parts washer pump would be ideal!


It may, but you might want to pay attention to what they’re rated for pumping — either aqueous or solvent-based solutions. Some may work with both but not all, and I’ll always remember my old burner mechanic pal warning me to never use an oil-rated pump for water (or biodiesel) solutions. He said the seals weren’t compatible and it’d kill the pump right quick.

-frank


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## David_R8 (Dec 23, 2020)

francist said:


> It may, but you might want to pay attention to what they’re rated for pumping — either aqueous or solvent-based solutions. Some may work with both but not all, and I’ll always remember my old burner mechanic pal warning me to never use an oil-rated pump for water (or biodiesel) solutions. He said the seals weren’t compatible and it’d kill the pump right quick.
> 
> -frank



Thanks Frank, that’s sage advice. If I go the synthetic route I wonder if that qualifies as aqueous?


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## francist (Dec 23, 2020)

Good question, I don’t know. Some of the mixes and combinations that are around now can be quite interesting though and just because it’s water borne doesn’t necessarily mean it’s water based. Hybrid floor finish is one example that comes to mind — easy water cleanup but it’ll shrivel a foam paint roller down to the size of a peanut in a matter of minutes. Pretty impressive, really.


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## David_R8 (Dec 23, 2020)

francist said:


> Good question, I don’t know. Some of the mixes and combinations that are around now can be quite interesting though and just because it’s water borne doesn’t necessarily mean it’s water based. Hybrid floor finish is one example that comes to mind — easy water cleanup but it’ll shrivel a foam paint roller down to the size of a peanut in a matter of minutes. Pretty impressive, really.



Nope, never happened to me. Not once.


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## YotaBota (Dec 23, 2020)

Me either,,,,,I'd never do anything silly,,, lol.
I was thinking the same about the pump innards being affected by the the different fluids. Even the pump on my tile saw would probably be to much. The pump out of one of those little zen water fountains would could be enough if compatible with the coolant fluid.


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## David_R8 (Dec 23, 2020)

Tried grinding the same piece again.
Slower feed and lighter cut.
Made a difference.


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## David_R8 (Jan 23, 2021)

Dressed the wheel with my new diamond dresser. 
Slowish passes, .050 step over. 
Big difference! This one is glass smooth. 





This is with an undressed wheel. I can feel the ridges on this one.


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