# Let there be Light



## John Conroy (Mar 18, 2019)

The older I get the more light I need to see anything. I was looking for a lighting solution for the dark area of the garage where my new lathe lives and found these on Amazon. I bought 2 and they work great and are cheap, my favorite kind of product. The difference is like night and day (pun intended). Before and after pics below.

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07M5SQSF7/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## DPittman (Mar 18, 2019)

Yup it's hard to get things too well lit in a shop.  I went to led lighting in my garage from incandescent bulbs and for the most part like them.  The power consumption of the led's is a fraction of the incandescent and I like the colour of the light of led's a bit better but they are much more directional lighting than the bulbs.  The old bulbs reflected off the ceiling and walls and lit all corners pretty well but the led's leave dark shadows in top 2ft of the walls and ceilings.


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## PeterT (Mar 18, 2019)

Good score. I'm finding I actually prefer the broader indirect light.I have a converted study lamp with LED bulb closer to the chuck but I find the glare kind of distracting. Do the LED bulbs vary in those class of lights by manufacturer or are they pretty generic? They sure have come down in price, glad I waited.

btw was the Halogen looking spot lamp included with the lathe? Is it a halogen bulb or something cooler like LED?


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## Tom O (Mar 18, 2019)

I went to leds also getting the flush mount type at Home Depot and have no complaints about them.


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## John Conroy (Mar 18, 2019)

My whole garage is now lit with LED lighting. So much better than the old T12 fluorescent bulbs. The lamp that came with the lathe is 24 volt halogen and  not nearly bright enough for me.


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## YYCHM (Mar 18, 2019)

Man I never seem to have enough light when I'm working with my machines.  Forever in a shadow.






I'm almost to the point of doubling up on the IKEA goose neck LED lamps.


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## Bofobo (Mar 18, 2019)

I went full LED 2 years ago, my house and shop have never been brighter!


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## DPittman (Mar 18, 2019)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> Man I never seem to have enough light when I'm working with my machines.  Forever in a shadow.
> 
> View attachment 4771
> 
> I'm almost to the point of doubling up on the IKEA goose neck LED lamps.


Well the nice thing about most of the surface mount led fixtures is that you can easily just plug in another unit in the end if you find you need more light (and you always do)


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## CalgaryPT (Mar 18, 2019)

A few years ago I bought one of those dual LED worklights and tripod thinking I could move it around my shop as needed. It worked great for a year, but tipped over and shattered the plastic parts of the tripod. The lights themselves work fine and are on a bracket that I hang from points in my ceiling as needed. Eventually I will make a metal tripod for it. LEDS are great.

I also have a portable battery powered Milwaukee LED worklight that is great for when working on mowers or snowblowers in the shop. A least one portable light source is great to move around and get under things with--not a flashlight, but something that you can stand and position. 

It's funny, as I age I need more light for some things (like in the shop). But other things are way too bright for me--like movies and big screen TVs. Ahhh, who am I kidding? I stopped going to movies years ago because they were too loud. And I couldn't bear paying $7 for a bottle of water and $25 for a bag of popcorn.


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## PeterT (Mar 18, 2019)

CalgaryPT said:


> And I couldn't bear paying $7 for a bottle of water and $25 for a bag of popcorn.



Do you have a link/pic for the Milwaukee? I'm kind of growing onto their tools because the battery is so common

Oh & btw water & popcorn is now $11 and $27 LOL


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## CalgaryPT (Mar 18, 2019)

The Milwaukee is 2361-20 and it's an M18. Super bright, but has a half power setting. I like it because you can position it at almost any angle. Great for under vehicles as well. Almost too bright at times. The other pic is the King LEDs that use to be on a tripod but I now hang from my ceiling.

I was at Calgary Fasteners today and their new tool section has a shelf devoted just to Milwaukee lighting. But they are pricey...Amazon has better deals especially if you have the batteries and charger already, and have Prime.

$27 for popcorn? Are they operating in some kind of exclusive economic zone I was unaware of?


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## Chicken lights (Mar 19, 2019)

I have this little guy for working on stuff. Magnetic base, straight or on a 45 degree angle, it’s handy. 

I don’t like the glare from LEDs, the old work lights were a much more pleasant soft light to work with. 

I agree with others, my shop is all LED light bulbs now, they are a much brighter light, but strangely they cast more shadows. What I did was painted all the walls white, then doubled up every light bulb at every socket. That helped a lot, but I still feel like one half of the shop needs a few more lights run


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## Bofobo (Mar 19, 2019)

Being a younger man of the forum but with some experience with “older” and hand tools, I question who still owns a classic touble light? How many light bulbs have died from being jostled in the slightest way? 

Well i still own one, and i would buy another! Because  now we have LED bulbs that fit these archaic devices and now it seems indestructible!


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## DPittman (Mar 19, 2019)

Bofobo said:


> Being a younger man of the forum but with some experience with “older” and hand tools, I question who still owns a classic touble light? How many light bulbs have died from being jostled in the slightest way?
> 
> Well i still own one, and i would buy another! Because  now we have LED bulbs that fit these archaic devices and now it seems indestructible!


Hey I own and like my traditional trouble light too!  You've got to use "rough service" bulbs in them if you use incandescent bulbs. However I too find the new led bulbs much superior, they seem just as tough and don't get as smokin' hot.  I was always burning/melting myself or something with the old bulbs.   And I exploded more than one when working under a vehicle and a water drop would hit the hot bulb.  I know there are stories of terrible mishaps/fires with the old trouble lights especially in the days of mechanic pits.


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## Chicken lights (Mar 19, 2019)

Bofobo said:


> Being a younger man of the forum but with some experience with “older” and hand tools, I question who still owns a classic touble light? How many light bulbs have died from being jostled in the slightest way?
> 
> Well i still own one, and i would buy another! Because  now we have LED bulbs that fit these archaic devices and now it seems indestructible!


I’d have to look, there was one hanging up in the shop not that long ago. My biggest thing is I hate having too many cords out at once, they have a tendency to get tangled. Typically if I’m working on something I’ll have an air line for air tools and cutting torch hoses strewn about. Add in a trouble light cord and they quickly create a trip hazard


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## CalgaryPT (Mar 19, 2019)

DPittman said:


> Hey I own and like my traditional trouble light too!  You've got to use "rough service" bulbs in them if you use incandescent bulbs. However I too find the new led bulbs much superior, they seem just as tough and don't get as smokin' hot.  I was always burning/melting myself or something with the old bulbs.   And I exploded more than one when working under a vehicle and a water drop would hit the hot bulb.  I know there are stories of terrible mishaps/fires with the old trouble lights especially in the days of mechanic pits.


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## PeterT (Mar 19, 2019)

My work light over the scroll saw & lathe is a cheapo repurposed student lamp with mag base. But I removed the incandescent or halogen or whatever was in there & replaced with LED. Like what you guys were saying, one little drop of coolant or spatter & the old hot bulbs went bang. Not what you want to startle you over a rotating chuck. So far so good. But the overhead big LED fixture would provide a lot more ambient light over the machine & if you are spraying that high, well go easy on the coolant LOL. 

The old school trouble light with coated lens seems to just mostly hang the glass shrapnel together, but it will still go bang with liquid. I still use it but should either get a different bulb or just cut the lamp off & harvest the 20 mile long cord.


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## DPittman (Mar 19, 2019)

PeterT said:


> My work light over the scroll saw & lathe is a cheapo repurposed student lamp with mag base. But I removed the incandescent or halogen or whatever was in there & replaced with LED. Like what you guys were saying, one little drop of coolant or spatter & the old hot bulbs went bang. Not what you want to startle you over a rotating chuck. So far so good. But the overhead big LED fixture would provide a lot more ambient light over the machine & if you are spraying that high, well go easy on the coolant LOL.
> 
> The old school trouble light with coated lens seems to just mostly hang the glass shrapnel together, but it will still go bang with liquid. I still use it but should either get a different bulb or just cut the lamp off & harvest the 20 mile long cord.


If the old school trouble light was one that had outlets in it you could plug in additional tools, that would be worthwhile saving.  I like mine because of that feature although corded power tools are also almost a thing of the past.


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## TheLocalDrunk (Mar 27, 2019)

I was lucky. They demo'd half the warehouse beside me and I was able to grab a bunch of 4lamp 4ft fixtures and wired those up.
I WISH they were LED though.


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## PeterT (Mar 27, 2019)

I'm still running old school fluorescent's. I keep saying I'll upgrade when the last of my bulbs burn out, but they refuse to die. They have survived how many expensive & now redundant fads that have come & gone already with questionable net improvement but a whole lot more money. I think LED is here to stay & the price seems to be dropping every year. The main thing is the light is better.


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## CalgaryPT (Mar 27, 2019)

PeterT said:


> They have survived how many expensive & now redundant fads that have come & gone already with questionable net improvement but a whole lot more money.



If you find a therapy group for this same observation I am having, I will car pool with you.


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## Colten Edwards (Apr 2, 2019)

PeterT said:


> I'm still running old school fluorescent's. I keep saying I'll upgrade when the last of my bulbs burn out, but they refuse to die. They have survived how many expensive & now redundant fads that have come & gone already with questionable net improvement but a whole lot more money. I think LED is here to stay & the price seems to be dropping every year. The main thing is the light is better.




goto homedepot and pick up a couple of 6500k T8/T12(depending on what you have) bulbs and replace just one set of bulbs. 6500k are ALOT brighter than all the others. it's a very sharp light unlike the 3000k bulbs which are closer to the flourescant's you already own. You'll go back to get a case pretty damn quick. The differance is like night and day. I still need to replace 8 more tubes in my shop and then I'm completely LED. A little expensive but worth it. BTW, I did nothing to my fixtures. The old ballasts are still in place. The LED T12's plugged in and worked out of the box. So far it's been a year since I started replacing the bulbs and nothing has broken.


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## PeterT (Apr 2, 2019)

Hmmm didnt know that. I thought the old gen florescent ballasts were not suitable for LED retrofits. That's the problem, technology changes rather quickly. Sheesh, I'm starting to sound like Statler & Waldorf


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## DPittman (Apr 2, 2019)

PeterT said:


> Hmmm didnt know that. I thought the old gen florescent ballasts were not suitable for LED retrofits. That's the problem, technology changes rather quickly. Sheesh, I'm starting to sound like Statler & Waldorf


Ya and they keep on changing on us...just a few years ago (Maybe 5) I bought a bathroom light fixture from Home Depot and I asked about the weird bulb base/socket...."that's the new style they are going to" the sales person told me.  Now I have a odd ball fixture thats hard to find bulbs for.  Grrrrr.


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## PeterT (Apr 2, 2019)

oh ya. Got one of those too circa 2008. The ever so popular double pin & twirly bulb. Aren't those landfill unfriendly too? Another donation to the Betamax museum. 
Like herding cattle to the McDonald's 'this way for a good time' door - the solution is to buy a brand new Chinese fixture for 49$ using 'current' light bulbs.


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## John Conroy (Apr 2, 2019)

PeterT said:


> Hmmm didnt know that. I thought the old gen florescent ballasts were not suitable for LED retrofits. That's the problem, technology changes rather quickly. Sheesh, I'm starting to sound like Statler & Waldorf



I bought a bunch (12 in my garage) of the Costco LED replacement tubes for my old school T12 fluorescent fixtures in my garage. The instructions say they are plug and play with T8 ballasts. T12 ballasts have a higher starting voltage than T8 ones but it's been 2 years and the LED tubes are still going strong and I use them a lot. They use 18 watts per tube instead of 40 that the T12's used. They cost about $19 each.  Side benefits (beside half the power consumption) are they are way brighter and work no matter how cold it is.


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## CalgaryPT (Apr 2, 2019)

PeterT said:


> Hmmm didnt know that. I thought the old gen florescent ballasts were not suitable for LED retrofits. That's the problem, technology changes rather quickly. Sheesh, I'm starting to sound like Statler & Waldorf


News to me as well but will look into these when mine go. By then we'll probably be looking at laser retrofits though.


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## PeterT (Apr 2, 2019)

_JC> old school T12 fluorescent fixtures in my garage. The instructions say they are plug and play with T8 ballasts. _

Just so I have my terminology straight, if I have 2-tube x 48" fluorescent fixture now - those are T12?
And you're saying you just replaced tubes with LED T8 without the ballast swap & that worked ok? 
I always assume you had to get a matching ballast & then you may as well get a new LED fixture.


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## John Conroy (Apr 2, 2019)

Yes 48" T12 tubes. You can tell T12 from T8 by the diameter of the tubes. T12 are 12/8ths or 1.5" and T8 are 8/8 or 1". There are also T5 bulbs available. Anyway I wasn't sure they would work with the T12 ballasts so I only bought 2 a first. If they had failed my plan was to just return them to Costco. They didn't fail and I bought 10 more and installed them directly where the T12 tubes were and they work perfectly. 2 years later and still no failures. A couple of my buddies have done the same for a total of about 36 tubes, none have failed.


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## Colten Edwards (Apr 2, 2019)

That's all I did. Replace the T12 bulbs I had with T12 LED's from Home Depot. I bought 6500k 2100lumen tubes which are super white and bright. 3000k is soft, whereas 5000k is natural I believe. Pic's of the box I used to replace the tubes next to them. close up of the bulb box.  I don't know how old the ballasts are in my fixtures. I purchased them used for $25 from someone upgrading there basement.  I've had them for 10 years.


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## PeterT (Apr 2, 2019)

I'm glad you guys mentioned this, I had a convoluted notion of what was involved. Home Depot here I come.


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## Dabbler (Apr 3, 2019)

*Wait - wait!* 

There are both kinds of LED retrofit kits available!  You can get the ballast types, and till lose energy in the ballast.  for a dual 40 watt ballast they consume about 8-10 watts of power.  When using the LEDs at 19 watts they still use 10 watts of power, meaning almost 30% energy loss  (even with net light gain).  

The other kind of retrofit uses 120 volts directly to the tube, so you emiminate the ballast.  these are actually slightly brighter on average than the ballasted LED tubes, and don't waste almost 10 watts per ballast.  These tubes are often cheaper than the ones that jsut plug in, but require rewiring the fixture.  Not a terrible burden, but still work.

I'm running 55W flat panels and 16W unballasted retrofit tubes in my shop.  both work very well.


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## DPittman (Apr 4, 2019)

For those that might be interested. ...I was in Costco this morning


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## Tom Kitta (Apr 25, 2019)

I got mine at amazon.ca - https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B015PCTXMI...m/images/I/91dK41VuOLL.jpg&sb-ci-a=B015PCTXMI

I got 34 tubes at 2320 lumens each buring 18w each. It is bright but not too bright. Had it for almost 2 years. Work great. Power usage is a bit high but manageable at over 600w. Total power per sq ft is around 100 - which is not bad - about average. You still need point/ task light.

Some people go 2x as much some 1/2 that. I guess its personal preference.


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## Chicken lights (May 12, 2019)

I just got done wiring up four 4’ LED light fixtures yesterday. I’m aiming to add 3 more when I get a chance. You guys weren’t kidding on the improvement they make. 

Home Depot had a box of 10 LED bulbs for $52 I think.


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## thestelster (May 7, 2022)

According _EN 12464 Light and lighting - Lighting of workplaces -Indoor work places,_ the minimum illuminance is 50 lx for walls and 30 lx for ceilings. Earlier it was common with light levels in the range _100 - 300 lux_ for normal activities. Today the light level is more common in the range _500 - 1000 lux_ - depending on activity. For precision and detailed works the light level may even approach _1500 - 2000 lux_.  

In my shop, 20'x20', I have 14 fluorescent fixtures (28 bulbs), and I have an average light intensity of 1400 lux, (without task lights switched on.)  I wish I had more light!!


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## Susquatch (May 7, 2022)

YYCHM said:


> Forever in a shadow.



It's not the lighting...... 

Sorry, Devil made me say that!


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## 6.5 Fan (May 7, 2022)

I've been switching over all the lighting to LED's, made a huge difference in the barn and shop using big corn cob style of lights.


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