# How Loud is My Lathe?



## YotaBota (Apr 11, 2022)

On a different thread I was asked by @140mower how loud my lathe is and at the time I said it wasn't that loud compared to a belt drive. So now being as how I am sorta deaf in one ear I went in search of a more definitive answer. I downloaded a noise app called NIOSH SLM and went thru the speeds on the lathe and the belt drive milling machine. Then for comparison I checked the Shop-Vac, table saw, compressor and wood dust sucker. I took all the readings from where I would normally stand and at about ear level and here is what I found:



*SM1120 Lathe**KBC830 Milling Machine**RPM**DB**RPM**DB*366627063.5507142064.572704906310076.5 (gear noise)7006514472950652007611106731570142067.545075172068.563075.3206069.590090 (high pitch whine)320075120078180081


Shop-Vac 10 gallon 4.5pk hp - 90dbdb

Compressor - CH 25 gallon 5hp twin cylinder - 86.5db

Table saw - General Int 10" contractor saw - 85db

Dust Vac - General Int 1hp - 75db

I wear Peltor ear defenders for the shop-vacs, table saw and the tractor but haven't found them needed for the lathe, yet. Most of my work with the lathe is under 900 rpm so the whine isn't an issue and I don't spend hours at a time on the machine.
@140mower - there are some numbers for you to work with for comparison to your lathe, I hope it helps in your decision making.


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## YYCHM (Apr 11, 2022)

Did you check the lathe with or without the lead screw powered?


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## David_R8 (Apr 11, 2022)

Pardon? I can't hear you over the noise of my router!


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## YotaBota (Apr 11, 2022)

YYCHM said:


> Did you check the lathe with or without the lead screw powered?


There was no noticeable difference with the lead screw running.


David_R8 said:


> Pardon? I can't hear you over the noise of my router!


That's on I didn't try, I'll let you know tomorrow.


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## David_R8 (Apr 11, 2022)

YotaBota said:


> There was no noticeable difference with the lead screw running.
> 
> That's on I didn't try, I'll let you know tomorrow.


Pretty much guarantee that baby will be 90+ db


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## Susquatch (Apr 12, 2022)

YotaBota said:


> On a different thread I was asked by @140mower how loud my lathe is and at the time I said it wasn't that loud compared to a belt drive. So now being as how I am sorta deaf in one ear I went in search of a more definitive answer. I downloaded a noise app called NIOSH SLM and went thru the speeds on the lathe and the belt drive milling machine. Then for comparison I checked the Shop-Vac, table saw, compressor and wood dust sucker. I took all the readings from where I would normally stand and at about ear level and here is what I found:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wow...... Now that's what a call a reply! 

Easiest way to control machine noise in my shop is to leave my hearing aides in the house.


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## thestelster (Apr 12, 2022)

I have a Bluetooth device which wirelessly connects to my hearing aids and controlled by an app on my phone, which will mute almost all surrounding noise.  And get this, all while still streaming music or notified if a call is coming in.  Blissfully listening to jazz while the lathe is screeching away.

I have found that as I have become deaf, noise bothers me more so than before.


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## Chip Maker (Apr 12, 2022)

I have tinnitus and have become quite sensitive to shop noise. I always wear ear protection, even when using the shop vac. I'm not sure if it's coincidence or not, but it seems to get worse when my mother in law comes to visit. Easter is going to be a challenge!


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## Susquatch (Apr 12, 2022)

thestelster said:


> I have a Bluetooth device which wirelessly connects to my hearing aids and controlled by an app on my phone, which will mute almost all surrounding noise.  And get this, all while still streaming music or notified if a call is coming in.  Blissfully listening to jazz while the lathe is screeching away.
> 
> I have found that as I have become deaf, noise bothers me more so than before.



Actually, I was just trying to be funny. 

My hearing aides are similar. I LOVE THEM. I connect to my phone by Bluetooth, get the music I like no matter what others are listening to, can talk on the phone while it sits in my pocket, and can make out a private conversation the other side of a restaurant! Apparently, I can also use my phone to translate another language while someone else speaks! No idea how to do that and never tried it so I can't comment on how well it works.

@Chip Maker - They can be set to deal with Tinnitus too!

Never tried to silence my machinery though. That sounds worth trying to do! What settings do you use for that?


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## thestelster (Apr 12, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Actually, I was just trying to be funny.
> 
> My hearing aides are similar. I LOVE THEM. I connect to my phone by Bluetooth, get the music I like no matter what others are listening to, can talk on the phone while it sits in my pocket, and can make out a private conversation the other side of a restaurant! Apparently, I can also use my phone to translate another language while someone else speaks! No idea how to do that and never tried it so I can't comment on how well it works.
> 
> ...


Start streaming your music, go into your app, and mute the volume.  The surrounding audio is muted, but streaming music is still present.


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## Hacker (Apr 12, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Actually, I was just trying to be funny.
> 
> My hearing aides are similar. I LOVE THEM. I connect to my phone by Bluetooth, get the music I like no matter what others are listening to, can talk on the phone while it sits in my pocket, and can make out a private conversation the other side of a restaurant! Apparently, I can also use my phone to translate another language while someone else speaks! No idea how to do that and never tried it so I can't comment on how well it works.
> 
> ...


This is great, my hearing has been declining over the last couple of years and I have been thinking about getting my hearing checked again. Will definitely look into the Bluetooth for noise dampening and listening to music.


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## Susquatch (Apr 12, 2022)

Hacker said:


> This is great, my hearing has been declining over the last couple of years and I have been thinking about getting my hearing checked again. Will definitely look into the Bluetooth for noise dampening and listening to music.



Other than the cost, I do not understand why anyone would resist good hearing aides. 

FWIW, mine are also virtually invisible. Then again, I still have all my fur.


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## YotaBota (Apr 12, 2022)

For me everything in my one ear is muted and sounds buzzy, I tried a hearing aid but all it did was amplify the distorted sound. On the plus side it did help with my tinnitus but not enough to justify the cost.


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## YYCHM (Apr 12, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Other than the cost, I do not understand why anyone would resist good hearing aides.
> 
> FWIW, mine are also virtually invisible. Then again, I still have all my fur.



How much did you pay for your hearing aids and from where?


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## kevin.decelles (Apr 12, 2022)

I also have hearing aids.  Changed my life.   The first week was mind blowing.  Did you know that water from the tap made that noise?  On the drive home I didn't know that the signal lights made a ticking sound, or that my keys were tapping against the steering column......

I went with Philips brand, purchased from Costco.  Bluetooth, rechargeable batteries etc.  Flawless.   I can stream music, background noise etc.  Can also do handsfree easy on the phone.  All it took was one conversation with my dad after I got mine and he finally went in to get some.  Changed his life too.

I had tenitis pretty bad before (still have it, never goes away) but I only notice it now when I'm not wearing my hearing aids.

Hearing aids can be anywhere from 1500 - 5000 from what I saw.  I think I paid 3200 or something like that (benefits covered it from work).


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## Tom Kitta (Apr 12, 2022)

kevin.decelles said:


> I also have hearing aids.  Changed my life.   The first week was mind blowing.  Did you know that water from the tap made that noise?  On the drive home I didn't know that the signal lights made a ticking sound, or that my keys were tapping against the steering column......
> 
> I went with Philips brand, purchased from Costco.  Bluetooth, rechargeable batteries etc.  Flawless.   I can stream music, background noise etc.  Can also do handsfree easy on the phone.  All it took was one conversation with my dad after I got mine and he finally went in to get some.  Changed his life too.
> 
> ...



To be honest a lot of people want to hear less sometimes. It would be a nice feature to have variable hearing - like be able to make it very sensitive or turn it to low sensitivity.


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## kevin.decelles (Apr 12, 2022)

I agree Tom.  I can turn it up/down manually or with the phone.....  I found I have to do this whenever my wife is talking.  After 30 years together, her voice was one of the most frequent things I heard and something my brain trained itself to hear (must obey!).  Now, with everything else amplified, her voice is so loud I have to mute her.  I wish this was a joke.... it's not 

About one weekend a month I pull out the hearing aids and go about 10 hours without them..... like putting in ear plugs.


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## Susquatch (Apr 12, 2022)

YYCHM said:


> How much did you pay for your hearing aids and from where?



I believe they were around 3500 for the pair. 

I have programmable volume range. I can increase or decrease the volume using buttons on the hearing aides as well as answer or hang up the phone from there. I can also increase or decrease the volume in either aide independently or simultaneously or change modes (meeting, TV, music, outdoors, theater, restaurant, etc) from an app on my phone. The range of authority can be changed by the audiologist. Apparently I am not allowed to change that myself.......


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## YYCHM (Apr 12, 2022)

Back to lathes......

After downloading a DB meter to my IPad I measured these levels for my 9" Utilathe.

RPM    DB1   DB2
50       55      55
100     55      58
180     60      60
250     55      57
300     65      67
500     58      60
900     62      67
1500   70      71

DB1 = DB lead screw not powered
DB2 =  DB lead screw powered


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## whydontu (Apr 12, 2022)

Using the NIOSH app:

Background noise from heater & fan: 47 dB

BB CT129 mill
350 RPM 72 dB
700 / 81
900 / 85
1300 /78
1800 / 86

Above 1100 RPM is using the high range gearing. Very high pitch.

BB B2227L lathe, leadscrew spinning but carriage feed not engaged
115 RPM 73dB
210 / 74
350 / 76
550 / 74
970 / 76
1620 / 84
and then 1620 dropped to 35dB when it tripped the breaker and shut off everything in my garage. Some day I'll get proper outlets installed on a separate breaker.

I generally don't wear hearing protection when in the shop, but it's obvious now that I should.


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## Susquatch (Apr 12, 2022)

whydontu said:


> Using the NIOSH app



My NIOSH App does not measure sound. It only lists safe levels. 

Regardless of which app you used, how did you calibrate it. I wouldn't trust any phone microphone to provide reliable  sound level measurements without calibration. Even then I'd still be suspicious because of gain factors and frequency response. .


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## Degen (Apr 12, 2022)

@Susquatch I read some of your posts and all I can think of is a a grump old man waving his cane at new young machinists yelling "keep your new fancy gadgets out of my shop!"

:roflmao:


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## YotaBota (Apr 12, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> Pardon? I can't hear you over the noise of my router!


95db, and that's without any wood going thru it.



Degen said:


> a grump old man


I didn't think he was grump.
@Susquatch - see how I defend you!lol
As to the tools for the test, you use what you have and that's close enough for a hobby guy.


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## David_R8 (Apr 12, 2022)

YotaBota said:


> 95db, and that's without any wood going thru it.
> 
> 
> I didn't think he was grump.
> ...


That's about what I figured it would be. Shockingly loud!


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## Susquatch (Apr 12, 2022)

Degen said:


> @Susquatch I read some of your posts and all I can think of is a a grump old man waving his cane at new young machinists yelling "keep your new fancy gadgets out of my shop!"
> 
> :roflmao:



You forgot to add "crappy" and "useless" to the list of adjectives before gadgets. And I may be in my 70s but I don't need a cane to make the young machinists scatter with their fancy crappy useless junk. 

Want another good laugh? My kids, and all their friends think of me as a guy who loves gadgets. It's a bit of a joke around here. "He won't like it - not complicated enough. Needs more dials and settings."


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## whydontu (Apr 12, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> My NIOSH App does not measure sound. It only lists safe levels.
> 
> Regardless of which app you used, how did you calibrate it. I wouldn't trust any phone microphone to provide reliable  sound level measurements without calibration. Even then I'd still be suspicious because of gain factors and frequency response. .


Good points. 

Calibrated ears? 50+ years as a musician, 20 years in a welding shop, 35 years riding motorcycles, at one time when living on my own between ex wife and current wife I had a church organ and Leslie speaker in my living room.

But I digress. When all else fails, cheat. Compare the NIOSH SLM app reading against known available source, and against another dB app. Now that I’ve checked, NIOSH reads high, out of the box it’s maybe 10dB high. I should have done my research before posting.

My lathe is in my garage, next to my little motorcycle that has the factory stock exhaust that meets EPA 80dB, so I should be able to get a go/no go. Also give me an excuse to take the bike out for a ride - “Dear, I can’t go to the mall today because I have to do some noise level calibrations“

I also held the iPhone about .5m away from the lathe, it really should be at a standard 1m to get a proper value.





__





						Common Noise Levels - Noise Awareness Day
					

While noise-induced hearing loss is permanent, it is completely preventable by taking simple steps to avoid noise exposure and protect your hearing.




					noiseawareness.org


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## Susquatch (Apr 13, 2022)

whydontu said:


> Good points.
> 
> Calibrated ears? 50+ years as a musician, 20 years in a welding shop, 35 years riding motorcycles, at one time when living on my own between ex wife and current wife I had a church organ and Leslie speaker in my living room.
> 
> ...



All makes great sense now. What caught my eye was the high numbers on your lathe. Looked unreasonable. Sounds like you are well on your way now. 

Answers my question about the app too. I have an Android. 

I have an app I use for measuring sound but I keep in mind that it's all only relative. The app I use also acts as a poor mans frequency analyser so I can at least see what I can't hear. Works great for tuning the guitar that I can't play anymore.


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## Degen (Apr 13, 2022)

On a more serious note, I use a both my iPhone and Apple Watch to warn of sounds. Do I use it as a definitive measuring device, hell no. But as a warning device yes.

My watch buzzes when it exceeds 90dB for a short period as a reminder that there is exposure.

Surprisingly, because of this I wear ear protection more as some sounds and exposures are considered normal yet exceed what is considered good for you.

Basically it is a tool to help you stay safe.

For better readings I use Decibel X as it spectral breakdown on how the readings are distributed.

Sensors in modern devices have come a long way in consistent performance, not lab grade but close enough for what we do.

There are apps for determining vibrations and they can even identify the axis.

Remember the true limits we need, leverage technology and benefit, avoid the grumpy old man syndrome .


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## Susquatch (Apr 13, 2022)

Degen said:


> On a more serious note, I use a both my iPhone and Apple Watch to warn of sounds. Do I use it as a definitive measuring device, hell no. But as a warning device yes.
> 
> My watch buzzes when it exceeds 90dB for a short period as a reminder that there is exposure.
> 
> ...



Sounds like a cool app. If a similar app exists on the android platform, I have not found it. I have to use all separate apps to do all that. 

You are not that far away from me. If you ever get down past London, give me a shout and drop by. I think you will be surprised to find how much we actually think alike. Although I am old, I'm not nearly as grumpy as you might think! You would enjoy your visit - especially after a few beers......


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## thestelster (Apr 13, 2022)

My tests:

Using a CheckMate CM-130 SPL Meter taken where my head would be in front of the machine.
Settings:  dBA, slow

Ambient noise:  24dBA
w/Furnace running: 61dBA 

Lathe:  Standard Modern Utilathe 1656
VFD fan running:  46dBA
*RPM     dBA*
240       71.0
390       75.0
600       80.0
960       81.0

*40        67.0*
60        67.5
100      70.0
160      72.0

By using the potentiometer to adjust VFD output frequency to vary the rpm:
*RPM     dBA*
(Gearbox set to High/240)
*50         50.0*
100       57.0
150       61.5

(Gearbox set to High/600)
220       62.5
330       68.0
560       75.0                

Have a look at the red hi-lighted lines!  Needless to say, that when I have to do reaming operations, I set the gear box to High, select the 240rpm speed, and adjust the VFD potentiometer to the speed that I want.  In this manner it reduces the noise which might affect the surface finish of the reaming process.

Other SPL's:
-Excello 602 milling machine:  69.5-85.0
-Shop-vac:  79.5
-Surface Grinder:  74.0
-Sandblaster:  81.0
-14" wood bandsaw:  at idle (72.0)  cutting a piece of 2x4 (80-84dBA)
-compressed air nozzle:  83-88
-5HP compressor:  85

And of course the machine numbers are all at idle.  What are they when actually machining metal?  Look at the wood bandsaw numbers:  an increase of 10dB.

No wonder we all need hearing aids


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## Susquatch (Apr 13, 2022)

Sound? Your machines make sound? 

Check out the tool tray on top of the lathe head! Talk about push up devices! I love it! 

Mine has a nice recess built right into the top of the head for that, but I'd like something deeper and more organized. Don't want too much up there but what is there should be well secured and appropriate. I love your wooden tool tray!


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## phaxtris (Apr 13, 2022)

I might be one of the few who trys to always wear ear plugs, riding motorcycles, snowmobiling, working in the shop, you name it, I find long exposure to loud-ish noises fatiguing and it puts me in a very irritable mood. I'm not sure how guys run grinders or table saws all day without ear plugs, I couldn't do it

Now that's not without conciquence.....the current cat likes to eat the stray ones...and ended up costing me 2600$ to have one removed....stray ear plugs  are a big deal now


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## Susquatch (Apr 13, 2022)

phaxtris said:


> Now that's not without conciquence.....the current cat likes to eat the stray ones...and ended up costing me 2600$ to have one removed....stray ear plugs are a big deal now



OK, I confess I don't get it..... 

Sounds like a very interesting story though....


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## DPittman (Apr 13, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> OK, I confess I don't get it.....
> 
> Sounds like a very interesting story though....


I had to think about it also but then I figured it out cuz I have a dog that does the same .  Never saw her actually eat one but when I pick up after her in th yard it has been obvious more than once she eats earplugs.


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## Susquatch (Apr 13, 2022)

DPittman said:


> I had to think about it also but then I figured it out cuz I have a dog that does the same .  Never saw her actually eat one but when I pick up after her in th yard it has been obvious more than once she eats earplugs.



I should have guessed it would be a crappy subject. 

I prolly got thrown off thinking his cat was a cat killer. (His cat likes to eat stray cats.) I thought my God, I've heard of Tom's killing kittens, but full grown strays? Must be one very big cat! Too funny! But I bet the vet bill wasn't funny at all.


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## phaxtris (Apr 13, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> I should have guessed it would be a crappy subject.
> 
> I prolly got thrown off thinking his cat was a cat killer. (His cat likes to eat stray cats.) I thought my God, I've heard of Tom's killing kittens, but full grown strays? Must be one very big cat! Too funny! But I bet the vet bill wasn't funny at all.



ha now that would be funny

no my cat is very tiny (3lbs ish), with very tiny intestines, and had definitely eaten them before....but for what ever reason this one became lodged causing an obstruction.....vomited everything she ate....the vet was unsure, took 3 visits, x rays (which showed something...they didn't know what, or were sure that was the problem) and finally exploratory surgery which revealed a very orange, and very swollen ear plug

adding it up with all the visits, the various medications, etc, was somewhere in the 2600$ range

so that's my story of why you don't leave stray earplugs laying around if you have tiny pets

bonus was that my wife and i got to watch our cat stumble around the house like a drunkard for an evening...pretty entertaining


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## Susquatch (Apr 13, 2022)

phaxtris said:


> ha now that would be funny
> 
> no my cat is very tiny (3lbs ish), with very tiny intestines, and had definitely eaten them before....but for what ever reason this one became lodged causing an obstruction.....vomited everything she ate....the vet was unsure, took 3 visits, x rays (which showed something...they didn't know what, or were sure that was the problem) and finally exploratory surgery which revealed a very orange, and very swollen ear plug
> 
> ...



Nice story. Thank you!


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## StevSmar (Apr 13, 2022)

YotaBota said:


> …Shop-Vac 10 gallon 4.5pk hp - 90db…


Those bloody shop vacs!
I used to have a “Quiet Shop Vac” brand and I’m sure there was a salesperson in heaven who laughed every time someone bought one, thinking it would actually be quiet.

I hated using my shop vac, so much that last year I spent an insane amount of money on a Festool shop vac. It sure hurt financially for a while but after a very short time I wished I’d had it years ago. So nice not to have to use hearing protection when it’s running. Make sure you’re sitting down if you look at their prices out of curiosity…


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## 6.5 Fan (Apr 13, 2022)

Jeeeeez $2600 for a cat, i have 30 in the barn with more popping out every day. I will send you 15 or so.


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## phaxtris (Apr 13, 2022)

6.5 Fan said:


> Jeeeeez $2600 for a cat, i have 30 in the barn with more popping out every day. I will send you 15 or so.



I know I know, but what would I do with out my safety advisor

As you can see she is always on top of it, making sure I have the vests and such


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## 140mower (Apr 13, 2022)

Wow, when I asked if they were loud, I expected a nah, not particularly, or ya, a little bit, but you get used to it...... 
I don't think United underwriters puts this much effort into their reports, you guys rock! Sounds like it won't be much different than my belt driven 10k. The 13" is another matter, with the drive mounted on the wall as it is, I find it quite tolerable in the shop, unfortunately it sounds like a herd of Buffalo charging by everywhere else in the house.....


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## YYCHM (Apr 13, 2022)

140mower said:


> The 13" is another matter, with the drive mounted on the wall as it is, I find it quite tolerable in the shop, unfortunately it sounds like a herd of Buffalo charging by everywhere else in the house.....



I screwed a shaper bench to a stairwell wall that did the same thing.  Wasn't tolerated for very long


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## 140mower (Apr 13, 2022)

YYCHM said:


> I screwed a shaper bench to a stairwell wall that did the same thing.  Wasn't tolerated for very long


Lol, yup, firmly mounted to a load bearing sounding board.....


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## YYCHM (Apr 13, 2022)

140mower said:


> Lol, yup, firmly mounted to a load bearing sounding board.....



Amplifier


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## 140mower (Apr 13, 2022)

Ohhh, you have no idea how efficient that amplifier is.....
 Perpetual motion has nothing on this.


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## StevSmar (Apr 15, 2022)

I’ve been doing a bit of investigating on and off about soundproofing my basement workshop… The latest thing I’ve looked at is ”mass loaded vinyl”. At about $5-$10 per square foot it’s not a cheap product (I didn’t look exhaustively)

I’m hoping that when I come to soundproofing the ducts, I can put foam insulation around them that’s not touching them. I suspect that I’ll not be very successful.


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## David_R8 (Apr 15, 2022)

StevSmar said:


> I’ve been doing a bit of investigating on and off about soundproofing my basement workshop… The latest thing I’ve looked at is ”mass loaded vinyl”. At about $5-$10 per square foot it’s not a cheap product (I didn’t look exhaustively)
> 
> I’m hoping that when I come to soundproofing the ducts, I can put foam insulation around them that’s not touching them. I suspect that I’ll not be very successful.


I used a mass loaded vinyl foam tile to attenuate the engine noise on my sailboat. Worked by basically changing the frequency of the sound. Was darn spendy as each sq ft was about $12. 
No idea how you basement ceiling is finished but I'd look at insulating the floor joist bays, use resilent channel to decouple the drywall.
The ductwork is basically a tube for sound transmission so foam around them won't have a lot of positive effect.


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## Susquatch (Apr 15, 2022)

StevSmar said:


> I’ve been doing a bit of investigating on and off about soundproofing my basement workshop… The latest thing I’ve looked at is ”mass loaded vinyl”. At about $5-$10 per square foot it’s not a cheap product (I didn’t look exhaustively)
> 
> I’m hoping that when I come to soundproofing the ducts, I can put foam insulation around them that’s not touching them. I suspect that I’ll not be very successful.



I dunno about what is the very best, but I do know a few things that work. We built a few bedrooms in the basement and moved one of my boys into the room below our room. 

My wife makes a lot of noise at night....  

So I did my best at the time to make sure we didn't keep him awake. I put regular insulation attic R18 batting between the joists and then added a drop ceiling with sound absorbing panels I also insulated the walls thinking that there might be some noise transmitted through the structure. 

He never complained or made any snide remarks.


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## historicalarms (Apr 15, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> I used a mass loaded vinyl foam tile to attenuate the engine noise on my sailboat. Worked by basically changing the frequency of the sound. Was darn spendy as each sq ft was about $12.
> No idea how you basement ceiling is finished but I'd look at insulating the floor joist bays, use resilent channel to decouple the drywall.
> The ductwork is basically a tube for sound transmission so foam around them won't have a lot of positive effect.


  Hmmm...Chicken...next thing you know R8 will be after you to deliver a load of sailboat fuel to him next time west.


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## YYCHM (Apr 15, 2022)

historicalarms said:


> Hmmm...Chicken...next thing you know R8 will be after you to deliver a load of sailboat fuel to him next time west.



Hmmm..... I was thinking lead keel coming west


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## David_R8 (Apr 15, 2022)

historicalarms said:


> Hmmm...Chicken...next thing you know R8 will be after you to deliver a load of sailboat fuel to him next time west.


Naw I sold that money pit. No more boats in my life!


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## David_R8 (Apr 15, 2022)

YYCHM said:


> Hmmm..... I was thinking lead keel coming west


Would have been 3800 lbs of lead.


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## David_R8 (Apr 15, 2022)

@YYCHM the whole boat displaced 10,500 lbs empty. Add fuel, water, etc and it was north of 11,000 lbs.
My memory failed me, the keel was 4,800 lbs.




__





						Crown 34 - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


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## YYCHM (Apr 15, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> @YYCHM the whole boat displaced 10,500 lbs empty. Add fuel, water, etc and it was north of 11,000 lbs.
> My memory failed me, the keel was 4,800 lbs.
> 
> 
> ...



Picture time


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## Tom O (Apr 15, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> I dunno about what is the very best, but I do know a few things that work. We built a few bedrooms in the basement and moved one of my boys into the room below our room.
> 
> My wife makes a lot of noise at night....
> 
> ...


Dam you! Now I want to watch Porkeys ( why do they call her Lassie? ) lol


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## Chicken lights (Apr 15, 2022)

Tom O said:


> Dam you! Now I want to watch Porkeys ( why do they call her Lassie? ) lol


Take her upstairs to the equipment room and you’ll find out whyyyyyy! Awooo!


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## Hacker (Apr 16, 2022)

StevSmar said:


> I’ve been doing a bit of investigating on and off about soundproofing my basement workshop… The latest thing I’ve looked at is ”mass loaded vinyl”. At about $5-$10 per square foot it’s not a cheap product (I didn’t look exhaustively)
> 
> I’m hoping that when I come to soundproofing the ducts, I can put foam insulation around them that’s not touching them. I suspect that I’ll not be very successful.


There is a product called SONOpan that is available at Home Depot. You use it in combination with drywall and it is less then a buck a square foot and it does work well. https://sonopan.com/


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## Susquatch (Apr 16, 2022)

Hacker said:


> There is a product called SONOpan that is available at Home Depot. You use it in combination with drywall and it is less then a buck a square foot and it does work well. https://sonopan.com/



This is VERY interesting.... It looks like an inexpensive improvement that is worth doing.

I get a little nervous when they use words like "can double the soundproofing of any wall or ceiling assembly". What does that mean? Sound is one of those energy sources that is a lot more complicated than it seems. Different frequencies act totally different. High frequencies are directional and would probably be stopped in their tracks by a sound deadening layer like that. Low frequencies that travel through structure might also be affected. The examples show it applied over top of the framing with drywall over that so perhaps it addresses low frequencies too.

But what does "double" mean anyway? The Decibel system was developed because our ears are not linear devices. 3db is a perceptible difference. 10db is like doubling the apparent volume. Maybe that's what they meant but I wish they had chosen their words a bit better.

Anyone who has ever been inside an anechoic chamber knows what silence really is. That surface is absorbative but also cone shaped to reflect sound into the absorbtion material. But it's usually two feet thick and not very shop friendly.

This material may not be perfect but it does do the one thing that is probably more important than any other. It separates the structure from the surface soundboard which should reduce transmission effects. Flat board insulation does the same thing.

Frankly, I'd love to try it, but my construction days are over. However, I do know a fellow who is building a brand new shop. I think I'll put a little bug in his ear.

For this thread, I think it's worth trying. But I'd still put insulation between all the wall joists. And if noise is a really big concern, I'd install an acoustic tile drop ceiling too. They are called acoustic tile for a reason.

As a side tip, all those accidental divits you get in an acoustic tile ceiling from broom handles and the kids light sabres can be easily fixed with a spray can of Dr Shoal's foot powder. It has the perfect texture and colour to patch those marks up almost as good as new!


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## PeterT (Apr 16, 2022)

There's a little bit more info on the website




__





						Blog - SONOpan
					

The latest discussion on soundproofing and sound dampening strategies. We discuss what works in different scenarios and choosing the best strategy.




					sonopan.com


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## Susquatch (Apr 16, 2022)

PeterT said:


> There's a little bit more info on the website
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Excellent Peter. Funny how the blog sounds so much more credible than the marketing hype. Blog was prolly done by technical staff. Advertizing done by the sales staff. 

Anyway, I certainly agree that it's worth a shot. Sounds very promising!


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## Janger (Apr 16, 2022)

I decided a while back to always wear ear defenders whenever I have anything to do with air tools, connecting or disconnecting tools, fooling with air lines, turning on and off compressors, bleeding air lines, blowing off chips or cleaning anything with air. Anything at all air wear those defenders. I think air noise is very harmful and worse than you think. KMS carries the 3M ones - they are most comfortable ones I've tried.


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## Susquatch (Apr 16, 2022)

Janger said:


> I decided a while back to always wear ear defenders whenever I have anything to do with air tools, connecting or disconnecting tools, fooling with air lines, turning on and off compressors, bleeding air lines, blowing off chips or cleaning anything with air. Anything at all air wear those defenders. I think air noise is very harmful and worse than you think. KMS carries the 3M ones - they are most comfortable ones I've tried.



I think you are right about that John. 

I think it's good to remember that all sounds regardless of their source are basically vibrating (rapidly moving back and forth) air. Our ears are keenly sensitive to those vibrations. But air doesn't need to move back and forth at audible frequencies to damage our ears. It just needs to move in a way thar creates a potentially very damaging pressure wave. 

So ya, I think you are right to be careful around compressed air.


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## Degen (Apr 16, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Sounds like a cool app. If a similar app exists on the android platform, I have not found it. I have to use all separate apps to do all that.
> 
> You are not that far away from me. If you ever get down past London, give me a shout and drop by. I think you will be surprised to find how much we actually think alike. Although I am old, I'm not nearly as grumpy as you might think! You would enjoy your visit - especially after a few beers......


Sounds like a plan.


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## Gearhead88 (Apr 17, 2022)

I had no idea I was living & working  such a noise saturated existance !! 

I have a Db meter app on my phone now , it displays as a bar graph , perfect for a neanderthol like me ,even my hot rodded unit heater in the shop is approaching the orange zone of danger. The furnace and compressor running at the same time has the bar graph creeping even further into the hazard level.

The wife has the vacuum running now , on this meter it is displaying over 90Db , the hell with that , I'm going out to the shop for some peace and quiet.


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## 6.5 Fan (Apr 17, 2022)

You want noise, try being in a metal covered barn with a bunch of momma cows that want their babies back. Daughter and i have to use sign language. Hmm, i don't see an emoji that explains what i mean.


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## Gearhead88 (Apr 17, 2022)

6.5 Fan said:


> You want noise, try being in a metal covered barn with a bunch of momma cows that want their babies back. Daughter and i have to use sign language. Hmm, i don't see an emoji that explains what i mean.


We're down to one cat now , he's getting on in years but at 5 AM , he makes sure we know he needs to be fed. I'll be checking the Db on that tomorrow.


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## Gearhead88 (Apr 17, 2022)

To get this topic back on track ……… I just checked my Craptex CT 043 lathe , @640 rpm , fluttering around 100 Db . I though it might be lower than the vacuum cleaner in the house , close though.


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## Susquatch (Apr 17, 2022)

Gearhead88 said:


> I had no idea I was living & working  such a noise saturated existance !!
> 
> I have a Db meter app on my phone now , it displays as a bar graph , perfect for a neanderthol like me ,even my hot rodded unit heater in the shop is approaching the orange zone of danger. The furnace and compressor running at the same time has the bar graph creeping even further into the hazard level.
> 
> The wife has the vacuum running now , on this meter it is displaying over 90Db , the hell with that , I'm going out to the shop for some peace and quiet.



I'm guessing that app of yours needs calibrating. I doubt very much that your wife's vaccuum is over 90db.


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## Gearhead88 (Apr 17, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> I'm guessing that app of yours needs calibrating. I doubt very much that your wife's vaccuum is over 90db.


It’s a really cheap one , she bought it when our central vac packed it in . There’s very little carpet in our house , she mostly uses it for dust n pet hair control. It’s loud & annoying for sure


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## Hacker (Apr 18, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> This is VERY interesting.... It looks like an inexpensive improvement that is worth doing.
> 
> I get a little nervous when they use words like "can double the soundproofing of any wall or ceiling assembly". What does that mean? Sound is one of those energy sources that is a lot more complicated than it seems. Different frequencies act totally different. High frequencies are directional and would probably be stopped in their tracks by a sound deadening layer like that. Low frequencies that travel through structure might also be affected. The examples show it applied over top of the framing with drywall over that so perhaps it addresses low frequencies too.
> 
> ...


They had a demonstration set up at a Home Depot awhile back where they had a box built with Sonopan and drywall with a boombox inside and turned up to a very annoying level. With the lid open it was very loud but when you closed the lid you could just hear the music. It convinced me that the stuff works.
I am going to use it to build a enclosure for our parasitic pump in our mechanical room as that thing is very noisy when it runs.


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## Brent H (Apr 18, 2022)

Well, I will make some noise in this thread just for fun.

We are currently “light” ice breaking so it is not that noisy- just a lot of vibrations so here are the meter readings:

My cabin:





Sorry it is blurry as we are vibrating like crazy but it reading about 65 db

The engine room:






We are rocking about 110 db in the high meter range.  In heavy ice we will get up around 120 plus….

In the shop:





We are about 80 and peaking 85-90 db when hitting some of the larger chunks. 

Everyone wears the -32 db ear protection and we are supposed to also wear the molded ear plugs under the muffs during heavy ice.  

By next week I should be finished forever with this great vibration and noise.  

When you are testing be sure you are testing up where you would be hearing.  Close into the machines it may be high levels but quickly dropping around your actual hearing area.  For example, if I stuff the meter in between the turbos when we are cranking up the reading is about 115 to 120, but drops to under 110 as soon as the meter is about a foot away.  

Anyway, there you have Brent’s 2 cents


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## Susquatch (Apr 18, 2022)

Brent H said:


> When you are testing be sure you are testing up where you would be hearing. Close into the machines it may be high levels but quickly dropping around your actual hearing area. For example, if I stuff the meter in between the turbos when we are cranking up the reading is about 115 to 120, but drops to under 110 as soon as the meter is about a foot away.



Terrific real world examples Brent. Love it! 

Also your measuring point is excellent. I tried to say that earlier but failed miserably. In most mediums, sound intensity is inversely proportional to the cubed power of the distance.


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## Gearhead88 (Apr 18, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Terrific real world examples Brent. Love it!
> 
> Also your measuring point is excellent. I tried to say that earlier but failed miserably. In most mediums, sound intensity is inversely proportional to the cubed power of the distance.


Some times you type like Mr Spock talks


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## Dabbler (Jul 4, 2022)

I did a lot of construction with my Dad when I was a teen,  And between contracts I did quite a few renovations, including some soundproofing.  We did use sound deadening drywall on some (with mixed results)  but that was 15 years ago and more. The products might have improved.

What we found to be a serious deadener was to mount the drywall onto sill gasket in one orientation (but not too tight, but quite firm), and then redrywall with the sheets turned 90 degrees, with PL between.  This creates a serious deadening mass (now that lead sheeting is deprecated) that can absorb the energy without transferring it all to the studs.  I did a drum practice room and a room beside a music studio in this way.  It worked the best of all our options we tried over the years.  It was (at the time)  cheaper than specialized sound deadening drywall.


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## DPittman (Jul 4, 2022)

"I did a lot of construction with my Dad when I was a teen...We did use sound deadening drywall on some (with mixed results) but that was 15 years ago and more."  
Here I had you pegged at a bit more than 30-35 years old Dabbler!  

Your method of sound insulating makes sense to me and is worth considering.  My old house does not have a finished basement ceiling in much of the area and it sounds like elephants walking among land mines in the basement when the kids are upstairs playing with the dog. If I ever built a house for myself sound dealing between rooms would be high priority.


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## Dabbler (Jul 4, 2022)

DPittman said:


> bit more than 30-35 years old Dabbler!


I was lax with my tenses.  I moved away from Ontario (and working with Dad) in the late 70s

My own personal experience with soundproofing ended when I stopped contracting 15 years ago, when i retired.


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