# New to me Bridgeport Mill



## Susquatch (Jun 6, 2021)

Just acquired a new to me Bridgeport Mill. I do not have access to 3ph power - only 110/220 so I can't actually run the machine yet.

Here is a quick link to the original thread about finding a good mill.

https://canadianhobbymetalworkers.com/threads/where-to-get-good-used-mill.3372/

Here is a link to the Hartford mill I acquired at the same time.

https://canadianhobbymetalworkers.com/threads/new-to-me-hartford-mill.3490/

Here is a quick survey of the mill and its condition as received:

Bridgeport Textron
Series I  - 2Hp
US Electric Motors 575 
     Rewound by Morrish
     (morrishemco.com) to 430V
Serial Number J221566
Drive Serial Number 2J 88733/2
Gross weight approximately 2000 pounds

Bed is rusty and badly hen pecked
      Needs to be scraped
90 thou x-axis over length
105 thou y-axis over length
Oil pump plunger sticks when pulled up
Y slides good condition ways and Gibbs good
X slides good condition ways and gibbs good
Z slides good condition

Left Side
 Head too far forward. 
 Broken left side handle
 Missing pull knob
 What is cam lock left of speed
         adjust for? 
         Spindle brake? Won't lock
 Speed adjust seems
         WAY too loose

Right side
 Missing original Quill arm
      (has homemade one) 
 Missing Base Pillar lock arm
 Power Quill Feed seems ok
 Speed Range
       can't keep it in neutral 

Front
 Quill manual wheel missing
 Table Lift lever ok
 Table lift lock arm broken off
 No way to clamp R8 tools
     to tighten draw bar

Spindle
 Rotates freely and smoothly
 R8 key pin Missing
 Can't lock Spindle
   to tighten drawbar


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## Dabbler (Jun 6, 2021)

Certainly a fixer' upper. You got it at the right price.


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## Susquatch (Jun 6, 2021)

Here is the Bridgeport after lifting it a few inches and then driving my flatbed out from under it.

My little loader tractor that can!!!

She is a beast of a tractor and always has been from the day I got it. Outpulls and outlifts many tractors two sizes bigger.

I admit that she even surprised me on this one. She squatted a bit as she took up the load and nothing happened. I thought it was over. Then just as quickly, the mill just lifted up off the flatbed as though it was made of foam.






OH ya, in case you are wondering, the rear tires have liquid ballast in them. If that had been too little, I would have filled the sprayer tank with water.


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## PeterT (Jun 6, 2021)

Keith Fenner is doing a video series on a Bridgeport rebuild he calls 'Buffy' just for interest sake. Likely different model, but sometimes helps to see the innards from different peoples perspective.


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## Susquatch (Jun 6, 2021)

PeterT said:


> Keith Fenner is doing a video series on a Bridgeport rebuild he calls 'Buffy' just for interest sake. Likely different model, but sometimes helps to see the innards from different peoples perspective.



Thank you!

I don't know who Keith Fenner is, but I do enjoy watching videos about stuff like that and I confess I've learned a lot that way! 

I'll see if I can find them.


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## PeterT (Jun 6, 2021)

home channel
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDmxnPem-pPfJQATIkfgY2Q

Buffy series just started


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## PeterT (Jun 6, 2021)

really good Bridgeport stuff
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiqCbERb5VG_G34vkx7j-zg


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## Brent H (Jun 6, 2021)

@Susquatch : the top of that Bridgeport is not correct for a variable speed machine - that is the brake and lock assembly for a step drive Bridgeport.

I am thinking that the machine has been adapted from the variable drive to the step drive and then the owner would speed control with a VFD.  Not a deal breaker by any means.


Both your Harford and the Bridge ports all have the same features - same mills, different names as near as I can tell - parts should be interchangeable


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## Susquatch (Jun 6, 2021)

Brent H said:


> @Susquatch : the top of that Bridgeport is not correct for a variable speed machine - that is the brake and lock assembly for a step drive Bridgeport.
> 
> I am thinking that the machine has been adapted from the variable drive to the step drive and then the owner would speed control with a VFD.  Not a deal breaker by any means.
> 
> ...



My mistake. Good catch. That top of the drive photo is the Hartford. That's what I get for bulk photo inserts. 

I deleted that photo here and will add it to the Hartford shortly. 

Here is the top of the Bridgeport.


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## Brent H (Jun 6, 2021)

That is better


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## Susquatch (Jun 6, 2021)

PeterT said:


> really good Bridgeport stuff
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiqCbERb5VG_G34vkx7j-zg



Great stuff to watch tonight before lights out!

Thank you!


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## Brent H (Jun 6, 2021)

@Susquatch : I attached the parts section for the variable speed head.

What can happen is that if someone dials up and down the speed without the spindle turning, the pulley plates come apart and pinch the belt such that is gets stuck at speed.  You can then dial up and down the speed control as it is doing nothing.

You can try putting the spindle in high and rotating it clock wise - if the belt follows the pulleys it will gradually get stiffer to turn - not overly stiff though and the speed lever will tighten up as the belt comes into the position it should be at.   You can check on things through the front if you remove the speed adjust - it should stay connected by the chain to the swash plate- see where the belt is positioned.  The odd time the pulley plates will stick if the key ways are worn - these are teflon material coated and replaceable - helps the pulley move up and down.  

Usually I have my mill repair book on board but it is home...alas...or I could send you some scans


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## Susquatch (Jun 6, 2021)

Brent H said:


> @Susquatch : I attached the parts section for the variable speed head.
> 
> What can happen is that if someone dials up and down the speed without the spindle turning, the pulley plates come apart and pinch the belt such that is gets stuck at speed.  You can then dial up and down the speed control as it is doing nothing.
> 
> ...



Thanks again for the parts pages for this one too! 

I tried turning the Spindle like you described. I assume clockwise is looking at the collet end. Anyway, it's way too difficult to turn. I'll have to fix the collet keyway pin first so I can put a crank or something in a collet to turn the Spindle with.


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## Brent H (Jun 6, 2021)

This will set you up - all the repair video you may require on this site


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## Susquatch (Jun 6, 2021)

Too





Brent H said:


> This will set you up - all the repair video you may require on this site


 
Too funny. My bride and I figured it out on our own. Glad I didn't watch the YouTube video first. No need to tap that Spindle in and out like that. You can get at both Screws with it right where it is with a ball end Allen.

I got the lock screw out easily. But I didn't know the pin was part of yet another screw so we spent quite a bit of time trying to push what we thought was the broken off tip out of the hole. Then my 5ft bride saw the Allen hole in the second screw from down under it.

The 6'3" hairy guy had to get on his knees to see it. But the rest was easy.

On the flip side, it is too bad I didn't see the video first. I never thought to index the Spindle collar.... But it has a recess to take the lock screw so it will be easy to get it right. 

I'll have to buy or make one of those pins. 

I subscribed to the channel.

Thanks Brent!


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## RobinHood (Jun 6, 2021)

430V is a good thing: take a VFD connect it to 220V and a 3 phase 1:2 step-up transformer to the motor - done.

What makes you think you need to re-scrape the table? I bet if you use some rust remover, some WD-40 with a fine scotchbrite pad and a bunch of elbow grease, that table will be just fine.

The pecker tracks: stone off the ridges to make sure there is nothing above the table surface and be done with them. If you don’t like the looks of them, put table covers on either side of the vise and no one will know they are there. (You should probably have some sort of table protection anyway to reduce/prevent dings in the surface when laying tools on it). I would be worried about peck marks if they were so deep and wide that they compromise the structural integrity of the table - from the pictures they don’t seem to.

The missing handles/wheels can all be made/purchased. You have another mill to help with any required repairs on this one - huge advantage.

Rebuild the one shot oiler. Probably just a bad o-ring jamming up.

The speed selector plate is considered a wear item. Make a new one using the other mill if you can’t do it on this one.

Not sure what ”cam lock left of speed selector” you are referring to. The pull pin is to locate the head vertically. The adjusting screw is on the opposite side. Only turn it after backing off the 4 locking bolts on the front face of the head.

The ram can be moved back after backing off the locking bolts on either side of the ram moving handle (it is broken off on your machine - as you have seen). The four turret bolts are locks. Back them off and you can swivel the whole turret through 360*.

There are 3 locks for the nod feature on the RH side of the ram behind the head. The nod adjusting bolt is on top of the ram.

The spindle brake issue needs to be investigated - could be as simple as a broken pin inside with the friction material still in good condition.

The ways look beautiful on your mill. 

I have a 1968 Series I with the 2 J head, 1.5 hp. Took the whole thing apart (other than the spindle cartridge) for inspection & cleaning after I got it. Removed all the grease out of the oil passages and replaced all the zerks with a one-shot oiler system.

If you have questions, ask, I’ll try to help you out.


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## Dabbler (Jun 6, 2021)

I think the BP mill has great bones.  Every fix you've outlined is simple and inexpensive, ant the ways are great for a used machine.  You really have a diamond there, all it needs is a little TLC.


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## Susquatch (Jun 7, 2021)

RobinHood said:


> 430V is a good thing: take a VFD connect it to 220V and a 3 phase 1:2 step-up transformer to the motor - done.
> 
> What makes you think you need to re-scrape the table? I bet if you use some rust remover, some WD-40 with a fine scotchbrite pad and a bunch of elbow grease, that table will be just fine.
> 
> ...



Great post @RobinHood!

I'll try to address your questions and suggestions in order:

VFD - I really didn't think it could be that simple. I'll have to do some research on how it works and how much it will cost. It might be a better solution that swapping the motor out. 

Scrapeing the table - I wasn't planning anything major. And I probably don't even understand what Scrapeing really is. I assumed you used a really sharp and really flat edge of a piece of HSS to find any high spots and carve them off. I think your idea of stoning them is probably better. All I really want to do is remove the high spots. 

Cloth to hide the pecker marks - I Really bust my gut laughing at this one! Talk about being practical! But, it's just not my style. If I can't improve them, I'll showcase them. I'm old and not very perfect. I'm also a bit stubborn from time-to-time. I have it in my head that I can use some devcon plastic steel to clean it up almost good as new. I think a devcon plug will look way better than those giant drill pecks.

Missing parts - That's the plan. It will be fun doing all that. 

One shot oiler - Hmmm...... Is that really needed or is it just Hydraulic pressure holding it up? In other words is it supposed to work like that? I've left it sticking up for now. 

Speed Selector - ya, I took the cover off. All the speeds are rubbed off. I'll get a new plate. A bigger concern is why does it turn so easy. Is it broken inside? I have to try @Brent H suggestion when I figure out how to turn the Spindle or motor. 

Can lock left of speed selector - hmmmm. This one. What does it do?






Good info of all the movements. "Nod" - what a great name for what I called front/back tilt.

Spindle Brake - ya, that's what I was afraid of...... I'll investigate.

Thanks for all that. I really appreciate the thorough reply, the advice, and the help!


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## Susquatch (Jun 7, 2021)

Dabbler said:


> I think the BP mill has great bones.  Every fix you've outlined is simple and inexpensive, ant the ways are great for a used machine.  You really have a diamond there, all it needs is a little TLC.



It will be a tough decision......


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## RobinHood (Jun 7, 2021)

The arrow in the picture above points to the spindle brake lever. You pull it out from the head to engage and lock the brake - the handle stays put. If you rotate the lever, the brake also engages as long as you hold the lever - you can feel the pressure you apply. If you let it go, the brake disengages. IIRC, it threads into the brake band mechanism. If that gets backed out too far, the lever will not do anything.

L to R, T to B: brake off; brake on & locked; brake engaged (it normally returns to neutral when let go - I just pulled a little harder to make it stay, brake is not locked); brake engaged - lever will return to neutral - had to hold it for the picture (normal).




 







 




Cover material should be a bit more substantial than just a cloth: 1/4” plywood, OSB ( when it was still affordable is what I use with shop towels on top to soak up oil), old UHMW cutting board, rubber mat, etc., would be my choice. I have also seen aluminum sheeting. I like your idea of the liquid metal fill and contouring - will certainly stop dirt from getting in the holes. Yes, my table has some pecker marks (one is visible - there are a few more under the vise) which have zero impact on the accuracy of my machine - which is still very, very good by the way. I can totally trust my dials, I don’t have a DRO on it. For super accurate work I will install a dial indicator or a DTI.




 




The one-shot oiler system does have a spring in it that applies pressure to the plunger pump to slowly distribute the oil. Pull up on the handle, spring pressure slowly forces it back down while the oil lubricates all the parts.

Scraping the table does normally mean that you are going to remove tiny amounts with a HSS (carbide preferred) scraper. Then check for flatness and geometry using a known standard (like a large camel back straight edge). Better would be to take the table off the machine and compare the flatness on a big surface plate. It is most likely not necessary to go to that extent (at least not initially). Stoning off all high spots should get you very close.


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## Johnwa (Jun 7, 2021)

Re: missing R8 drive pin.  My mill is missing it as well.  There is a spot for it but I doubt one was ever installed  While researching it, I found some debate on whether it is even desirable to have one.    I don’t have any problem running mine without one, but it’s a smaller mill so likely less horsepower.


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## Tom Kitta (Jun 7, 2021)

A lot of items can be got cheap and looking professional from places like Aliexpress and eBay. 

Most of the stuff outline is easy fix. You can even look into simply converting machine to 1ph 240V See the frame of the motor it has now & I am sure for under $300 you can get a brand new 1ph 3hp motor to fit. Machine does not have a lot of other "connections" so it should not be a big deal.


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## Susquatch (Jun 11, 2021)

Johnwa said:


> Re: missing R8 drive pin.  My mill is missing it as well.  There is a spot for it but I doubt one was ever installed  While researching it, I found some debate on whether it is even desirable to have one.    I don’t have any problem running mine without one, but it’s a smaller mill so likely less horsepower.



I got the old broken pin out easily thanks to my wife. Yes, I can see why some people might not like it. But it is factory and R8 standard, so for the time being I'd rather get a small box of spare pins......


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## Susquatch (Jun 11, 2021)

Tom Kitta said:


> A lot of items can be got cheap and looking professional from places like Aliexpress and eBay.
> 
> Most of the stuff outline is easy fix. You can even look into simply converting machine to 1ph 240V See the frame of the motor it has now & I am sure for under $300 you can get a brand new 1ph 3hp motor to fit. Machine does not have a lot of other "connections" so it should not be a big deal.



Agreed. I'm in the process of pricing and sourcing parts now.

Replacing the motor is tbd. I think for now I'm gunna get a VFD and run it as is to evaluate the health of the mill. The right VFD can be moved to the other mill, but I don't want to sink a ton of money into fixing a machine I decide not to keep and then can't recoup the investment. Some stuff is a no-brainer though.


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## Susquatch (Jun 11, 2021)

So I got the "motor certificate" from the seller......

Turns out its a receipt not a certificate. But the receipt clearly shows it was re-wired to 240V. So that mystery is behind me.

The receipt was for $1650 with no tax. That included re-wiring and new bearings. But it's still a small fortune for something they turned around and sold to me for $1800.


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## Tom Kitta (Jun 11, 2021)

Susquatch said:


> So I got the "motor certificate" from the seller......
> 
> Turns out its a receipt not a certificate. But the receipt clearly shows it was re-wired to 240V. So that mystery is behind me.
> 
> The receipt was for $1650 with no tax. That included re-wiring and new bearings. But it's still a small fortune for something they turned around and sold to me for $1800.



Wow, they ... paid ... 1650 to have a motor re-wired? For half that I could just send the motor to India, have it re-wired and sent back. I actually saw motors being re-wired in India when I was there - its a popular thing for locals. 

For quarter of the price one could just get a brand new motor. Its not like its some special two speed motor or something. 

If its 240v just run it off VFD. You can get a rotary converter later on. I would not change the motor to 1ph, not worth the Hussle. None of my large machines are 1ph.


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## Susquatch (Jun 11, 2021)

Tom Kitta said:


> Wow, they ... paid ... 1650 to have a motor re-wired? For half that I could just send the motor to India, have it re-wired and sent back. I actually saw motors being re-wired in India when I was there - its a popular thing for locals.
> 
> For quarter of the price one could just get a brand new motor. Its not like its some special two speed motor or something.
> 
> If its 240v just run it off VFD. You can get a rotary converter later on. I would not change the motor to 1ph, not worth the Hussle. None of my large machines are 1ph.



Yup, my view too.

You pretty much summed up where I'm at right now too. Shopping right now for a good VFD. Prolly end up spending a bit more than I should cuz I want to maintain maximum flexibility for down the road. But I won't go crazy.......


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## Susquatch (Jun 11, 2021)

Anybody know what the standard motor shaft size is on a 2HP J2 Bridgeport?


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## Susquatch (Jun 11, 2021)

Btw, the receipt for the motor rewind was fall of 2018. So it was done very recently. I'm guessing it was never even used after that.......


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## YYCHM (Jun 11, 2021)

Susquatch said:


> Anybody know what the standard motor shaft size is on a 2HP J2 Bridgeport?



https://www.practicalmachinist.com/.../bridgeport-2hp-motor-shaft-dimension-177497/


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## Susquatch (Jun 11, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> https://www.practicalmachinist.com/.../bridgeport-2hp-motor-shaft-dimension-177497/



Thanks. On that forum, they say that 1.179 is the correct size for a 2hp BP.  My Hartford is 0.988. Maybe a scooch smaller - couldn't get a vernier in there perfectly square. Soooooo...... they are not the same.

There goes yet another swapping opportunity. (insert sad face here)


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## Brent H (Jun 11, 2021)

Holy smokes!  $1650 - that is nuts!!! A new - brand new - motor is about 1200 if you buy it from a middle man - yikes!!!

A 575 volt motor does not easily rewire to 240 volts - sort of a pain due to the way the windings need to sort out.  - probably why the Cost - but - I agree with Tom, you could probably send the thing away and have it done much cheaper.   

The motor for the Bridgeport variable speed is unique as it has a long shaft - the pulley on it moves with the change in speed to keep the belt aligned.  I think it is like 7/8” diameter but 4 inches long.


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## YYCHM (Jun 11, 2021)

Susquatch said:


> Thanks. On that forum, they say that 1.179 is the correct size for a 2hp BP.  My Hartford is 0.988. Maybe a scooch smaller - couldn't get a vernier in there perfectly square. Soooooo...... they are not the same.
> 
> There goes yet another swapping opportunity. (insert sad face here)



Were you thinking of swapping motors? 

When I converted my mill to 3 phase the motor shaft on my $50 Kijiji find was a smidge to large to fit the drive pulley. Was a metric vs imperial thing.  Not wanting to muck with the pulley I turned the motor shaft down on my lathe.


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## Brent H (Jun 11, 2021)

@Susquatch - yes the 1.179” diameter makes sense but the two mills have different characteristics- check the parts explosion I put on the page - the Hartford you can adapt pretty easy because it does not need the extra long shaft.


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## Susquatch (Jun 11, 2021)

Brent H said:


> @Susquatch - yes the 1.179” diameter makes sense but the two mills have different characteristics- check the parts explosion I put on the page - the Hartford you can adapt pretty easy because it does not need the extra long shaft.



This might be ok. I may not be able to swap motors, but if I can get a 220V 3Ph for the Hartford, I could use the same VFD for both.

I had also hoped that it could be used on my single phase 220Lathe, but it looks like that isn't gunna happen. On the plus side, it looks like TECO does make a unit for single phase motors.


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## YYCHM (Jun 11, 2021)

Susquatch said:


> On the plus side, it looks like TECO does make a unit for single phase motors.



Post a link please.


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## Susquatch (Jun 11, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> Post a link please.



Sorry, it's ATO, not TECO. Here is a link. Price seems reasonable given very few if anyone else does this. Can't vouch for quality yet and have not evaluated limitations. 

https://www.ato.com/2hp-vfd-single-phase-input-output

Other hp units are listed on the same page too. 

I'm considering a TECO single phase input three phase output L510 for both mills. That will allow me to evaluate the Bridgeport as is, but I'll have to get a 220 3 phase motor for the Hartford so I can evaluate it. Either way, the VFD will be needed.


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## Susquatch (Jun 11, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> Were you thinking of swapping motors?
> 
> When I converted my mill to 3 phase the motor shaft on my $50 Kijiji find was a smidge to large to fit the drive pully. Was a metric vs imperial thing.  Not wanting to muck with the pully I turned the motor shaft down on my lathe.



Yes, I was thinking about swapping motors. I'm trying to evaluate both units without spending money on parts I won't end up keeping.

I would have probably trued up the pulley and bored it out instead of turning the motor shaft but there is almost always more than one way to skin a rat.


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## YYCHM (Jun 11, 2021)

Susquatch said:


> I would have probably trued up the pulley and bored it out instead of turning the motor shaft



But then the perfectly good (almost new) 2 HP 220v single phase motor with drum switch the mill came with wouldn't fit the pulley.

When I got my mill, I didn't have a 220V circuit and the motor was wired for 220V, but could be wired for 120V.  After exploring wiring the motor for 120V it was concluded that putting a 220V circuit in was just plain easier.  220V single phase lead to.... hey I could go single phase 220V to 3 phase 220V with a VFD and have variable RPM for like $80...well that and a $50 used motor.  Regrets... None.  Haven't changed a belt since.

A single phase to single phase VFD was not an option when I was looking?  Maybe @David_R8 can comment.


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## Dabbler (Jun 11, 2021)

OK, Mr Susquatch, you got me off my butt...  My motor shaft is .875 on both my First mill and my Hartford mill of the same vintage as yours...  (I measured mine on the shaft instead of the ID of the pulley... )



Susquatch said:


> My Hartford is 0.988



-- Perhaps a little measurement error?  I've seen 3/4 shafts and 7/8 shafts and 1" shafts, but not .988... - 25mm maybe?

Try to remeasure on the shaft between the pulley and the motor, and look out for the keyway!


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## Susquatch (Jun 12, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> But then the perfectly good (almost new) 2 HP 220v single phase motor with drum switch the mill came with wouldn't fit the pulley.
> 
> When I got my mill, I didn't have a 220V circuit and the motor was wired for 220V, but could be wired for 120V.  After exploring wiring the motor for 120V it was concluded that putting a 220V circuit in was just plain easier.  220V single phase lead to.... hey I could go single phase 220V to 3 phase 220V with a VFD and have variable RPM for like $80...well that and a $50 used motor.  Regrets... None.  Haven't changed a belt since.
> 
> A single phase to single phase VFD was not an option when I was looking?  Maybe @David_R8 can comment.



OK, I understand now. I was thinking keep the motor original, you were thinking the same thing but your motor was gunna be on the shelf. I was also thinking about how much easier it would be to bore the pulley instead. I can only imagine what it would be like to turn the motor shaft! Kudos to you for taking that job on!


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## Susquatch (Jun 12, 2021)

Dabbler said:


> OK, Mr Susquatch, you got me off my butt...  My motor shaft is .875 on both my First mill and my Hartford mill of the same vintage as yours...  (I measured mine on the shaft instead of the ID of the pulley... )
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I did qualify that I couldn't get the Vernier perfectly square. It was very hard to get in there between the bottom of the motor and the pulley. And yes, 0.988 is an oddball size so I was suspicious. 

I deliberately turned the pulley so the keyway slot wouldn't affect the measurement. But I never saw a keyway! Altogether I took five measurements and discarded two slightly bigger numbers that were not in the cluster. I couldn't get my fingers in there to tighten the caliper lock so I think it moved on me getting it out. 

25mm (0.9843) seems like a totally reasonable size given a canted caliper. Who knows, maybe 0.988 is even correct if the shaft isn't finished where I measured it. 

Based on your findings, I think I'll try to pull the motor this afternoon after my bride heads out to do some sewing on my son's boat cover. It doesn't look hard to pull the Hartford motor at all. Getting the motor out of the Bridgeport is a whole nuther matter!


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## Susquatch (Jun 12, 2021)

Dabbler said:


> OK, Mr Susquatch, you got me off my butt...



Mr Susquatch eh!!  Now that made me laugh right out loud! I've been called lots of things in my life, but never Mr Anything! Too big, too hairy, and too ugly for "Mr" Anything!


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## Dabbler (Jun 12, 2021)

Yeah, pulling the motor on a Reeves drive is, well - there's a Joe Piecyzinski video for that.....


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## Crankit (Jun 12, 2021)

Dabbler said:


> Yeah, pulling the motor on a Reeves drive is, well - there's a Joe Piecyzinski video for that.....



Yeah...seen that video Joe Pie did. I'm sure half way through a tear down a mere mortal would be wish they had a mill with change belts and a VFD


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## Brent H (Jun 12, 2021)

We will pull @architect ‘s mill head apart after we pick it up.  He will do some filming.  - Hopefully we can set a new time record.


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## Susquatch (Jun 13, 2021)

Brent H said:


> We will pull @architect ‘s mill head apart after we pick it up.  He will do some filming.  - Hopefully we can set a new time record.



Hey Brent, I watched the Joe Pie video that @Dabbler referenced. It was enough to cause me to think "screw that, I'll keep the Hartford". But I found a total gem down in the comments on that video that changed my mind.

It went like this: "Extend Ram, Rotate Head 180 degrees, raise table to touch motor, remove motor mount bolts, lower table, motor is sitting upside down on table."

After having lifted the motor out of my Hartford the regular way, I LOVED THIS COMMENT. Solid gold - if it works. @Mcgyver would be jealous!



The obvious elephant in the room is: Will the BP Head Rotate 180?

Hope it helps you if you try it.

Edit - At 90 degrees, it might also improve access to other parts! Working on a stepladder sucks!


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## RobinHood (Jun 13, 2021)

Susquatch said:


> The obvious elephant in the room is: Will the BP Head Rotate 180?



Yes, it will.

Yours has a pin on the side that needs pulling out once the head swivels past a certain point, 25* or 30* I think. Just go slow and leave some drag on the rotation lock bolts so that you can control the movement.

Good luck.


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## Brent H (Jun 13, 2021)

@Susquatch the Bridgeport head will turn all over the place - you can even detach it from the quill housing:

https://canadianhobbymetalworkers.c...-a-day-ugh-but-happy-results.2432/#post-29537


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## Brent H (Jun 13, 2021)

@Susquatch : https://canadianhobbymetalworkers.c...s-spindle-and-nuts-bridgeport-type-mill.2292/


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## Susquatch (Jun 13, 2021)

Brent H said:


> @Susquatch the Bridgeport head will turn all over the place - you can even detach it from the quill housing:
> 
> https://canadianhobbymetalworkers.c...-a-day-ugh-but-happy-results.2432/#post-29537



Good stuff. Glad you already knew. I didn't and learning about it was awesome!

Ps - I edited my first post on this issue to discuss the 90 degree opportunity before I saw your post. I had not refreshed yet and didn't even know you had replied. Sorry if it looks odd.


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## Susquatch (Jun 16, 2021)

The Bridgeport saga continues.

I took the cover off the speed control indicator housing as @Brent H suggested. I discovered that the bottom cover screws were too short and not even engaged in the threads. No idea how they managed to stay there! 

I can't access the motor shaft, so I chucked a collet to fit the outside of a 1/2" socket and turned the system from the Spindle with a socket wrench. All that happens when I do this is the belt slips on the Spindle sheeve. Gunna have to fire up the motor to get this part working. But I confess that the screw error has me worried.


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## Brent H (Jun 16, 2021)

When you took off the face cover (2 slotted screws) there are 4 Allen head screws that hold the speed selector in place - you say the bottom 2 were not long enough - interesting- you probably have a couple screws somewhere that are too long perhaps?  

when you pulled off the speed selection plate was the chain attached to the speed plate at the top and the chain attached to the selector spool at the bottom - such that moving the speed knob would wind up or pay out the chain- thereby pulling down on the speed plate or letting it lift?


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## Susquatch (Jun 28, 2021)

Brent H said:


> When you took off the face cover (2 slotted screws) there are 4 Allen head screws that hold the speed selector in place - you say the bottom 2 were not long enough - interesting- you probably have a couple screws somewhere that are too long perhaps?
> 
> when you pulled off the speed selection plate was the chain attached to the speed plate at the top and the chain attached to the selector spool at the bottom - such that moving the speed knob would wind up or pay out the chain- thereby pulling down on the speed plate or letting it lift?



Sorry Brent. Somehow I missed your post.

It turned out that whoever had that plate off last simply reversed the screws. The two bottom and two top screws are different lengths. It was an easy fix. Amazing how dumb some people can be. 

However, I remain concerned about why they were taken off in the first place.

The chain was attached correctly, but I don't know if it's working yet.

Soon. Very soon.


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## Susquatch (Jun 28, 2021)

Guess what arrived today?

My VFD!






I'll be wiring it up shortly and then we will see what we will see!

I've found a few other things in the meantime. I took the high/Low quill feed Lever off to see what is up with it and found out that the internal shifter fork is broken. Looks like somebody forced it rather than wait for the gears to align to slip it in. So I'll have to jury rig that somehow to make sure nothing more serious breaks when I fire it up.


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## Susquatch (Jun 28, 2021)

Maybe I can install some short bushings to hold the shift fork in place at one end or the other or the middle.


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## YYCHM (Jun 28, 2021)

Susquatch said:


> Maybe I can install some short bushings to hold the shift fork in place at one end or the other or the middle.



I think we need a picture here.....


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## Susquatch (Jun 28, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> I think we need a picture here.....



I can't find a suitable photo in the books I have so I'll try to take a few photos of the real deal tomorrow.


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## Susquatch (Jun 29, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> I think we need a picture here.....



OK, here is the inside of the feed speed selector gear box with a screwdriver bit holding it in the middle position. 






I was thinking I could put a sleeve on the right side shaft to hold it into position to solidly engage one of the feed speeds. The following photo shows it held in place at the top position using a screwdriver bit. Obviously, that's only for the photo. 






But the sleeve approach sucks cuz I'd have to take the head apart to install it. 

However, I noticed that the follower pin for the fork is fully captured in the non-damaged portion of the follower slot when the forks are in the top or the bottom position. It is not retained in the center position. 






So I will make a small shouldered pin to hold the broken selector lever in place in the top or bottom position - prolly the top one so gravity is my friend.


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## Brent H (Jun 29, 2021)




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## Susquatch (Jun 29, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> I think we need a picture here.....



Here is the jury rigged quill speed handle...... LOL! It's a #10 machine screw with a piece of paper on it to allow the screw to bite the ID of the setting hole to retain the screw. A #10 nut provided the perfect shoulder. @Mcgyver might be proud of it!


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## Susquatch (Jun 29, 2021)

Brent H said:


> deleted photos



Thanks @Brent H

In the first photo you provided, I noticed an assembly. Do you think that would include all the parts you mention above? If so, it might be more economical to do it that way.


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## Susquatch (Jun 29, 2021)

Well, I jury rigged the quill feed speed selector system as described above and I hooked up the VFD.

NO GO on the first try. No errors on the VFD though. I just guessed that the motor didn't like the 5hz default speed setting, so I bumped that to 60 and tried again.

Motor spun up nicely, but there was the faint smell of rubber and the spindle wasn't moving. So I shut it down asap.

I can turn the motor by hand, and I can turn the spindle with a socket wrench and a socket clamped into a collet the right size. The spindle does not turn easily though. 

I'm still suspicious that the vari-speed spools are messed up. So I removed the speed setting cover and had another look in there. The spindle Spool pulley is set very small which should translate to a high speed, but the window on the dial says low speed.

But hey, the VFD works. I'm running a 3phase motor on single phase power!

Gotta ponder the next step......


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## Susquatch (Jun 29, 2021)

Ok, I followed the instructions AGAIN that @Brent H provided earlier to try and sync the pulleys with the speed control system. The belt on the front (spindle) pulley didn't move at all, but I believe the rear (motor) pulley must have tightened up somewhat because........ The spindle turns now......

Its not too noisy. Nothing is rattling around or growling. But it's not whisper quiet either. I guess I don't really know what is normal.

I think I will let it run a while. Who knows how long it's been sitting unused. That may loosen things up or it all might go to hell in a hurry. At any rate, I won't leave it run unattended. In the meantime, I'll try to rough tune the VFD a bit more.


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## Susquatch (Jun 29, 2021)

Still running good......

So I tried low speed too.  Also runs good. Seems to like 65 rpm and 550 rpm. Doesn't like increasing either of those speeds. Thinking maybe one of the two spools is stuck. No other good reason I can think of......

I'll prolly play with the VFD  a bit before doing anything else.  

After that, maybe I should put a tachometer on the spindle to see what it really is. Pretty sure I have two of them around here someplace - one electronic and one mechanical. Neither one has been used in several decades.


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## Susquatch (Jun 29, 2021)

No tach. Both are gone. I'm guessing one of my three sons has them. It's a definite downside of having a handy family. 

Dad's tool supply shop is always short on tools.

But I'm thinking I ought to be able to see 60 rpm with my naked eye.......


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## Susquatch (Jun 29, 2021)

Brent H said:


> This will set you up - all the repair video you may require on this site



When I was working on the mills today, I made a little discovery. My Hartford has a small channel  ground into the end of the quill shaft. I believe that it was put there by someone to make it easier to access the R8 indexing pin. It works great. No need to pound down the spindle, and no need for ball end Allen wrenches. Just remove the quill cap and then turn the spindle until the pin is visible through the channel. If I end up keeping the Bridgeport, I'll be grinding one of those access channels into the end of the quill shaft.

I doubt dirt would ever be a problem, but if it was then one could always stuff the channel with a wad of Kleenex. The klennex will fall out when the cap is removed and will keep the gap clean when the cap is installed.


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## Susquatch (Jun 30, 2021)

Another update:

I did a stop watch measurement of rpm. Seems the sheeves will deliver about 40rpm to 70 rpm. No more than that at low speed and the equivalent at high speed. 

I tried taking videos with sound but the forum won't accept them. 

I can peek in above the speed readout and can plainly watch the front sheeves moving together and apart. But it will only go so fast without complaining. I cannot see what is happening to the rear sheeves, but I suspect that they are stuck. Obviously, something is amiss. 

I might try manually compressing and releasing them before I try disassembling the drive system.


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## Susquatch (Jun 30, 2021)

No wonder some people prefer to buy new....... 

I took the bottom cover off to try to tighten and loosen the sheeves and figured it was as good a time as any to have a look to see if I could watch them moving like the front ones. Guess what I found?

The belt isn't even engaged in the sheeves! It's riding on the sheeve compression spring!!! I'm surprised that it ran so quietly. 

Now I know why the screws on the front speed indicator cover were reversed. 

I guess I gotta take the motor out after all.........

At least the spindle sounds good.


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## Susquatch (Jun 30, 2021)

That wasn't so bad after all.

It was easy to remove the motor because the belt was off the sheeves.

Getting it back in was not so easy. I had to put a puller on the sheeve to compress the spring. It was obvious that the screws would not reach and even if they did, they don't have enough working length.

After it was compressed, I installed the screws, but working length was still a problem.

We have full range of speed control now, but it is kinda noisy. There are a few speeds where it's really quiet. So maybe I am just being too critical. I really don't know what the system is supposed to sound like. 

Anyway, the mill works now. Unless other members have suggestions or recommendations, I don't plan any more fixes until I can get the Hartford working for comparison.


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## RobinHood (Jun 30, 2021)

I’ll see if I can take a short video of my BP varidrive later today and upload it here (if I can).


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## RobinHood (Jun 30, 2021)

I took two videos (one low range FWD and one high range FWD), but I can’t upload them. Seems I need to have one of the permitted media accounts - I don’t have any of them.

Maybe there is a work-around?


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## YYCHM (Jun 30, 2021)

RobinHood said:


> I took two videos (one low range FWD and one high range FWD), but I can’t upload them. Seems I need to have one of the permitted media accounts - I don’t have any of them.
> 
> Maybe there is a work-around?



Send them to me.  PM sent.


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## Susquatch (Jun 30, 2021)

RobinHood said:


> I took two videos (one low range FWD and one high range FWD), but I can’t upload them. Seems I need to have one of the permitted media accounts - I don’t have any of them.
> 
> Maybe there is a work-around?



Ya, I tried numerous approaches. I assumed the files were simply too big. But I repeated at lower resolution and even tried resizing them - all to no avail.  I didn't realize there were any permissions required.


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## Tom O (Jun 30, 2021)

Hmm maybe the forum could get a you tube account where it could get uploaded to along with other builds if people are willing to share their projects with enough followers it could be a form of income for the group.


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## Susquatch (Jul 1, 2021)

Tom O said:


> Hmm maybe the forum could get a you tube account where it could get uploaded to along with other builds if people are willing to share their projects with enough followers it could be a form of income for the group.



I dunno if youtube would generate any income based on videos like these. But who knows, stranger things are possible. My youngest son and his partner paid their bills during the pandemic with streaming income. So I'll never say never.

I have setup, programmed, and maintained several forums and websites in my day. I'm not familiar with this particular forum, but usually they involve buying a domain (hobbymetalworkers.com in this case), and a hosting package of some kind that runs on a server. It is usually possible to create a file sharing service on the server. That may be what others here have called a "permitted media account". Other services like stores, blogs, databases, etc are also possible. Many hosting companies provide canned packages for implementing such features. They are an obvious way to do what we have been discussing here.

The problem is finding someone the admins trust who knows how to do this and is also willing to donate their time to managing such a service on a timely basis. Speaking as someone who has done this in the past, this no small undertaking and it is also something totally underappreciated by others. A lose-lose so to speak.

I noticed that @architect used a service called "streamable" to post and share a video of his "Bridgeport Project" at the time of purchase. I gave them a once over. They have a free basic service as well as pro and business versions. I'd use them to post a video, but the only videos that I have right now are ones I made before I discovered that the belt was not engaged in the motor spools. I'll try and take a video of the way she runs right now (with VFD) as soon as I get the chance. That may take a while because my bride volunteered me for gaurd duty - my middle son's three boys are here at the farm for a few days......


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## Susquatch (Jul 1, 2021)

Ok, so I opened an account on the "Streamable" video sharing system that @architect found.

Here are links to three short Videos that I compressed after saving - so they are not huge files. Only the first video used VFD speed control to ramp up the motor. I was cranking the speed dial in the 2nd & 3rd videos. Not so easy to do holding a camera in the other hand. 

Low Spd VFD Startup
https://streamable.com/99uzsp

Low speed spooldown
https://streamable.com/t2c0qy

High speed spoolup
https://streamable.com/sho9fk

If they don't work, wait a while. They are taking forever to upload using my slow farm internet access. But I got a link right away to use to share them.

Let me know what you think...... No need to be kind. Adjectives like "total garbage" work just fine for me! I bought these two mills with my eyes wide open: prepared for the worst - hoping for the best.

My own impression goes like this: the spindle feels, looks, and sounds reasonable. The back gear is a bit clattery at times - it also seems very speed sensitive. Some speeds sound like a sewing machine, others sound like big huge gear teeth touching off-the-tooth-ramp a bit. 

Also, although I was told (and saw the receipt) that the motor was recently re-wound and had new bearings installed, it sounds a bit noisy too. Thinking it's that nylon key thingy allowing the Spool to move around a bit.


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## RobinHood (Jul 1, 2021)

Try this:

BP Vari-Drive low range (60 to 500 rpm)
https://streamable.com/p504tv

and this one:

BP Vari-Drive high range (500 to 4200 to 1000 rpm)
https://streamable.com/pv2rnq


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## Susquatch (Jul 1, 2021)

Brent H said:


> View attachment 15826



I noticed an assembly at the bottom of your first photo. 

Here it is. 






Not sure if it's really a cost savings though. Also not sure if it includes the ball.


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## Susquatch (Jul 1, 2021)

RobinHood said:


> Try this:
> 
> BP Vari-Drive low range (60 to 500 rpm)
> https://streamable.com/p504tv
> ...




Boy, you are quite the camera wizard! I particularly enjoyed watching your speed dial change. 

Yours sounds pretty darn good.

Nice clean machine too!

What I hear in mine that I don't hear in yours is what I think sounds like some gear tooth clatter. But again, I have zero experience.

What did you think of mine?


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## Susquatch (Jul 1, 2021)

RobinHood said:


> Try this:
> 
> BP Vari-Drive low range (60 to 500 rpm)
> https://streamable.com/p504tv
> ...




I also like your open speed dial too. Mine would be more readable if it were open like that. I think it got destroyed rubbing on the inside of the cover.

My casting has the pointer, but it gets covered by the cover. I'd also need a different dial since mine has two windows on opposite sides for high and low speed.


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## RobinHood (Jul 1, 2021)

My first attempt at a video - so beginner’s luck I guess.

I think what I am hearing in your machine is possibly worn reeves drive bushings and / or top head bearings. It is really hard to say. Might have to tear it all apart and inspect it in detail.

I took my mill apart and cleaned everything when I got it (except for the spindle bearing cartridge - which I left alone). It had been lubed with grease just about everywhere they could get it in. Big mess and difficult to clean all that stuff out. Once it was reassembled and lube with the proper products, it ran much better and the sliding surfaces are buttery smooth.

My mill was built in 1967. So a bit older than yours. Also do not have the chromed ways.


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## Susquatch (Jul 1, 2021)

RobinHood said:


> My first attempt at a video - so beginner’s luck I guess.
> 
> I think what I am hearing in your machine is possibly worn reeves drive bushings and / or top head bearings. It is really hard to say. Might have to tear it all apart and inspect it in detail.
> 
> ...



I would not disagree with you. And mine might be newer, but yours has been looked after.

I noticed a few other things that could be contributing to the clatter. For one thing, the sheeve belt seems to flap around a fair bit even though the sheeves themselves "SEEM" rock solid. The visible amount of flapping seems to be proportional to the clattering noise. I'm guessing that the belt took quite a beating running against the motor sheeve spring instead of being engaged in the sheeves. I may have done that myself with the testing I did before I found that problem. But I'll also bet big bucks the previous owner's partner beat the hell out of it. Physically, the belt looks good - almost new. Might have even been replaced with the motor. But there is a lot of fresh rubber in there, so it can't be perfect.

I'll change the belt if I tear it down. But for now I just want to decide which mill to keep. 

I befriended a fellow at Teco Westinghouse who said he would try to find a good used motor for me for the Hartford. I already know that it needs the back gear bearings changed but hopefully little else. Time will tell. 

The other thing I noticed is that the Drawbar seems to bang around a fair bit when it's tight or loose. There is a washer (or something) down inside the spindle that isn't centered. Removing the Drawbar improves the overall clatter too.

Does your neutral work on your right speed selector? Mine won't stay in neutral. It slips into high-speed the first chance it gets.


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## PeterT (Jul 1, 2021)

RobinHood said:


> My mill was built in 1967. So a bit older than yours. Also do not have the chromed ways.



Your '67 mill sounds pretty darn smooth in both low & high gear modes. Remind me again what is the motor situation on this machine - stock, 1P?, 3P?, VFD?... etc


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## RobinHood (Jul 1, 2021)

PeterT said:


> Remind me again what is the motor situation on this machine - stock, 1P?, 3P?, VFD?... etc



It is the original dual voltage 220/440V, 1.5hp, 3 phase motor. I run it off a VFD.
In both videos I only used the vari-drive to adjust spindle speed.
The motor always runs at 60 Hz. Never gets hot - even when using it for hours on end (like gear cutting).


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## Brent H (Jul 1, 2021)

@RobinHood : my mill sounds much like yours throughout the speed changes (1981).  The only “ knock” sound I get is at the very top end speeds and I know it is the draw bar as it has a slight bend.


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## Susquatch (Jul 2, 2021)

Brent H said:


> @RobinHood : my mill sounds much like yours throughout the speed changes (1981).  The only “ knock” sound I get is at the very top end speeds and I know it is the draw bar as it has a slight bend.



Well that's two that sound the same. That makes them a great reference for me to use to assess mine. 

I may go ahead and try using the machine a bit while I wait for a motor for the Hartford.

I may also order or make some of the missing or broken parts that affect the usability if the machine.

Again, thanks for that!


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## Susquatch (Jul 2, 2021)

Can anyone describe how the high low neutral Lever on the right side of a J2 vari-head Bridgeport works? Mine will not stay in neutral. I can hold it there, but there is no detent. If I leave it in neutral, it switches to high as soon as the spindle starts to move. I can't tell if that's by design or not and I can't find anything that tells me how it should work.


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## Brent H (Jul 2, 2021)

@Susquatch : there should be a detent that stops the handle from popping up into high gear - a pin in the lever arm sets into the detent.




In the books you recently received there is a section on how to adjust that specific lever for proper operation.


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## RobinHood (Jul 2, 2021)

Further to what @Brent H said, the detent plate is considered a “consumable” as the locating holes wear out - especially if operators let the pin drag while they move from one position to the other.

Have a look and see if you have a “ramp” worn out of the neutral hole towards the HI range detent. This will cause the lever to slip to HI as it is spring loaded in that direction.

You can make a new strike plate, buy one, or repair the one you have to solve the problem.


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## Susquatch (Jul 2, 2021)

Brent H said:


> @Susquatch : there should be a detent that stops the handle from popping up into high gear - a pin in the lever arm sets into the detent.





RobinHood said:


> Have a look and see if you have a “ramp” worn out of the neutral hole towards the HI range detent. This will cause the lever to slip to HI as it is spring loaded in that direction.
> 
> You can make a new strike plate, buy one, or repair the one you have to solve the problem.




So it seems apparent to me that my "strike plate" is totally missing.






I looked at the parts book and it does not appear to be shown! 






Yet, it does show up in the drawing that you provided. I highlighted it in with a blue arrow:






So I'm not sure how to handle this one. I could probably make something if I knew what the part is supposed to look like. I can clearly see that it should be a simple block that slides in the gear selector and is locked in place (adjusted) with an Allen set screw. In fact, the set screw is still there. But how and where does the selector engage the block? 

Further, it looks like the Hi gear detent is also part of the sliding block. So without knowing what the original looks like or how it works, it's probably something I should buy instead of make. If I can find it. As I indicated above, I couldn't find it on machinery parts. 

It also seems a bit odd for it to be a consumable but yet not be shown in the parts breakout. 

Maybe it's yet another one of things for me to ignore for the time being till I decide which mill to keep.


----------



## Brent H (Jul 2, 2021)




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## RobinHood (Jul 2, 2021)

“Consumable” was perhaps a little too strong a word to describe the plate. It does last a long time if treated properly. I have seen them in poor condition or missing (broken?) like yours on mills much newer than mine.






That’s what the plate by itself looks like.


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## Susquatch (Jul 2, 2021)

Brent H said:


> View attachment 15890
> View attachment 15891



Cool. I can make that pretty easy I think.

The high speed hole looks centered, and the neutral slot/hole looks like it might be reversable to get it a little further away if needed. Am I imagining that?


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## Susquatch (Jul 2, 2021)

RobinHood said:


> “Consumable” was perhaps a little too strong a word to describe the plate. It does last a long time if treated properly. I have seen them in poor condition or missing (broken?) like yours on mills much newer than mine.
> 
> View attachment 15893
> 
> That’s what the plate by itself looks like.



Ah, I see. No sweat. I understand the nuance. 

In your photo, it looks like the plate and the adjusting block come as one assembly. That explains why I couldn't find the small block by itself. 

The truth is, that even looks like it's one piece. But I think I can just barely make out the lines between the block and the plate. Or am I just imagining that?


----------



## YYCHM (Jul 2, 2021)

Part # 54?


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## Susquatch (Jul 2, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> Part # 54?



That's what I called the plate in my discussion above. The slider block is what I couldn't find. 

But that's probably it if @RobinHood's photo is correct. If so, the plate and block both come together in one part.


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## RobinHood (Jul 2, 2021)

Just looked at your picture again. Looks like there are in fact two parts to this: the HI position and Neutral are determined by an adjustable, hardened plate. The adjusting / retaining screw is indicated by the red arrow.






Here is what the hardened plate looks like.






The hole is tapered from the top 0.300“ to 0.265”. The plate is 0.687” wide (to fit the mounting slot), 0.760” tall and 0.190” thick. The cut-outs are 1/2 the plate thickness deep, diameter of 0.500” (r = 0.250”). Have not yet determined where the circle centers are located (they are off the edge of the part for sure).

So no need to make the whole plate, just the missing insert will do.

Hope that info helps.


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## Susquatch (Jul 2, 2021)

RobinHood said:


> Just looked at your picture again. Looks like there are in fact two parts to this: the HI position and Neutral are determined by an adjustable, hardened plate. The adjusting / retaining screw is indicated by the red arrow.
> 
> View attachment 15894
> 
> ...




Yes, that's exactly what I was thinking. Why make more than needed.

The Adjusting screw you highlighted is the one I referred to in my earlier post.

I would never have guessed the hole depth was only 1/2 the thickness.

Not sure what you mean by tapered.

No need to do a lot of measuring. What you have done already by removing the block and making me a photo is more than I could have asked for. I'll print it out and turn it into a template that I can use to machine something from.

Thanks ever so much!


----------



## RobinHood (Jul 2, 2021)

Susquatch said:


> I would never have guessed the hole depth was only 1/2 the thickness.



That hole goes all the way through. It is not cylindrical. The diameter on the upper surface (facing us) is larger than the diameter where it comes through the plate at the back. Only reason I can think of this would be for is to center the lever pin in the hole without play.

The little cut-outs you see on the edges are only 1/2 the plate thickness.

Sorry for not being clear enough. It’s always easier to “see things” when the part is right in front of you…


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## Susquatch (Jul 3, 2021)

Perfect @RobinHood!

I think that explains everything for me. Maybe that will be the first part I make on the new mill!


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## Susquatch (Jul 11, 2021)

I finished configuring my VFD for the existing motor on my Bridgeport. As per advice from members I set the minimum speed at 1/4 (15 Hz) and the max at 75 Hz.

The motor seems to run just fine like that. There is no detectable vibration or noise at 75Hz and at 15Hz the big built in fan pushes a lot of air and runs very cool

https://streamable.com/ysfzez

At this point, I'm almost certain that the vast majority of the noise my Bridgeport makes is from the sheeve belt. You can watch it flopping around when it's noisy and see it smooth out when it's quiet. Too bad it was run against the springs for a while. I'll replace it if I end up deciding to keep the Bridgeport.

Still don't have the new motor for the Hartford. Looking like Tuesday right now.


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## Susquatch (Jul 15, 2021)

Just measured the actual spindle speed on my Bridgeport. When the sheeves are set as slow as they can go, it's running about 84 rpm about 40% faster than the claimed 60 rpm. The same is true at all extremes - ie min/max in both low and high gears. So it's not just an offset on the speed dial. It really is running a lot faster than it should. 

To confirm this, I also did a manual count at low speed with a stop watch. Got exactly the same result at 84 rpm. 

Wondering if that could be a function of the belt that was damaged running it against the spring on the drive sheeve....

Or is this just normal? 

As per my posts on @architect's thread https://canadianhobbymetalworkers.com/threads/bridgeport-project.3521/post-48818, I also made a really nice tool to remove and install the quill cap. Worked like a charm!


----------



## Brent H (Jul 15, 2021)

I run my mill at 50 Hz , 240 volts. Speed is bang on. At 60 Hz it runs about as fast as yours.


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## Susquatch (Jul 15, 2021)

Brent H said:


> I run my mill at 50 Hz , 240 volts. Speed is bang on. At 60 Hz it runs about as fast as yours.



I see. I guess I just assumed that since the BP was designed and built in the USA before the advent of VFD's, the ratings would all be based on the 60Hz system.

But no biggie, if that's the way it is then I won't get my nickers in a knot over it. If I end up keeping the BP, I'll prolly run mine at 50Hz too.


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## Susquatch (Jul 24, 2021)

I decided to use the BP the way it is to make a custom pulley key for my Hartford.

That meant checking the bed surface and tramming it.

What a surprise awaited me. Despite how badly hen pecked the bed was, it was flat! I couldn't find any high spots at all. On inspection, it was obvious that it had been regularly stoned.

Also, I found it was only out 2.5 thou left to right and 4 thou on the Nod over a 5" span. Not bad at all considering how much travel it has endured, but easy to fix, so I did.


----------



## Susquatch (Jul 26, 2021)

In preparation for milling a motor key for my Hartford Mill, I asked a bunch of questions about approaches for doing it. @RobinHood recommended a 1/2" end mill at 1200 rpm.

So I dialed that in on my Bridgeport using a combination of belt positioning and VFD frequency setting. In the process, I discovered something quite informative.

I began by looking for a nice smooth quiet speed on the pulley setting. There are several. I had already noted that they seemed to correspond with reduced belt flopping around.

Then I tried dialing in a VFD setting to hit 1200 rpm. That's when it hit me. The mill stayed quiet no matter what speed the motor ran at.

After that observation, I am even more convinced that all the noise the BP makes are the result of belt flopping around in the sheeves. After all, that is the only thing that changing speeds did not change.

Its too bad it was run with the belt against the springs for so long. But I think that's a pretty straight forward repair.

Anyone see any flaws in that rationale?


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## RobinHood (Jul 27, 2021)

Susquatch said:


> Its too bad it was run with the belt against the springs for so long



I forget, did you have this belt out for inspection? Perhaps just a new belt will solve the problem?


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## Susquatch (Jul 27, 2021)

RobinHood said:


> I forget, did you have this belt out for inspection? Perhaps just a new belt will solve the problem?



I never actually removed it. I discovered that it was running on the sheeve spring, removed the motor, compressed the springs the way they are supposed to be done, changed the front pulley to largest separation, and reinstalled the motor.

It was a night and day difference at the time - as one should expect.

Although it was much quieter, as time passed, I became more and more aware of the minor noise I recorded and posted earlier.

A while after that I was watching the belt through the slot above the speed dial and noticed that the belt flopped around a lot more at certain speeds. That's what led to the observation later on that it really didn't flop at certain speeds, it flopped at certain sheeve spacings - or more accurately DIDN'T flop around at certain spacings.

So yes, I hold out VERY HIGH HOPES that merely changing the belt will totally clobber what noise there is left there. But I'm in no hurry to do it. It's actually very good as is. If I decide to sell the BP, it will get sold with the belt as is. If I decide to keep it, I'll order a new belt for it then.

That decision looms closer ever day. My first parts shipment arrived today......

There are essential parts for both mills in that order. For the BP,  it includes the feed speed selector components, the table locks, the turret pinion handle, and one turret bolt. I only bought what I considered essential parts to facilitate a decision.

Once I have decided, then I will complete the machine I keep and also decide how much to fix on the other one before selling it.


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## Susquatch (Aug 7, 2021)

I encountered a new Bridgeport problem today. I was going to drill some motor bolt holes in my adapter plate when the quill handle suddenly stopped moving the quill. 

It seems the quill handle key is all screwed up. I took it apart and found a little wee teeny tiny woodruf key that had moved into the center shaft and no longer engaged the clock spring bushing and the shaft.

Obviously that was like that when I bought it but I couldn't know until it moved enough to get disconnected.

I believe it is the wrong size key. But I don't know what is correct. The H&W website is in a bit of a mess right now. It looks like they are in the middle of changing it. 

Anybody know what that is all supposed to look like?


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## RobinHood (Aug 7, 2021)

I believe the woodruff key you need is item 171 on the parts drawing. The BP part # is ST66, or a standard #3 woodruff key.


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## Susquatch (Aug 7, 2021)

RobinHood said:


> I believe the woodruff key you need is item 171 on the parts drawing. The BP part # is ST66, or a standard #3 woodruff key.



I did a quick search to find a #3 key and stumbled on the charts below. Perhaps they will be useful to others. 

That key looks a bit big compared to mine. But I will measure it in the morning. In any event, a bigger one than mine is definitely needed. 

I'll give Fastenal a call in the morning to see if they have one.


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## Susquatch (Aug 8, 2021)

RobinHood said:


> I believe the woodruff key you need is item 171 on the parts drawing. The BP part # is ST66, or a standard #3 woodruff key.



When I removed the clock spring, another key (or a lengthwise piece of one), fell out from behind the spring itself. This one was square like a regular key, not semi-circular like a woodruff. It also has a small burr at one end of it that looks a bit like an unfinished broach stroke.

My first guess is that it is half of the regular woodruff key after it sheared. However, the shear surface is well polished which I would not have expected.

What is #11 in your attachment?


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## RobinHood (Aug 8, 2021)

Part 11 is labelled as a #7 woodruff key, BP part no ST68.


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## Susquatch (Aug 8, 2021)

RobinHood said:


> Part 11 is labelled as a #7 woodruff key, BP part no ST68.



I had a chance to make some measurements and poke around a bit this morning. In my opinion, the small woodruff key is indeed a #3. All of its dimensions are a bit short of the minimums, but then again it is worn a bit.

The longer square key is not and never was part of that particular woodruff key. 

The dimensions are as follows:

Woodruff Key:
     0.473L x 0.190D x 0.124 thick
Straight Key:
     0.770L x 0.116D x 0.115 thick
Shaft slot is 0.75 long

Here are a few photos:











If the woodruff is placed in the shaft slot, it literally drops below the surface of the shaft.

However, it does create a surface that a square key can sit on. Here is a photo of the slot, the woodruff inserted, and the resulting "stacked keys".













The sleeve will install on the stack, but it is a bit loose. I don't really see how the square key ended up behind the clock spring, but it isn't tight so Murphy may have put his hand to it. I'm much more inclined to think that the previous owner lost the square key and glued the woodruff in place so he could sell it. Perhaps the mill is the root of the way he treated his previous partners. He knew he would get caught sooner or later so he quit beforehand. 

I see no point in replacing the #3 key or the square key as is. Although silver soldering them together is an option, I'm more inclined to try and make a custom key that combines both keys into one. 

If I keep the Bridgeport, perhaps I'll get a new shaft for it some day. 

So....... Anyone know what the proper procedure is for preloading the clock spring?


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## John Conroy (Aug 8, 2021)

It looks like someone put the 2 keys together to try and replicate the correct key that maybe got lost. A #7 woodruff key would likely be correct as it is 1/4" taller than a #3 woodruff key. 

Instructions to install the clock spring from my manual.


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## Susquatch (Aug 8, 2021)

John Conroy said:


> It looks like someone put the 2 keys together to try and replicate the correct key that maybe got lost. A #7 woodruff key would likely be correct as it is 1/4" taller than a #3 woodruff key.
> 
> Instructions to install the clock spring from my manual.



This stack is only about 1/8" taller than the #3 alone. But I have to start somewhere and that seems as good as any.

I admit that I am surprised to learn that the clock spring is not supposed to lift the quill - just balance the weight. I would never have guessed that.

Thank you for the manual photos.


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## PeterT (Aug 8, 2021)

Susquatch said:


> I admit that I am surprised to learn that the clock spring is not supposed to lift the quill - just balance the weight. I would never have guessed that.


 Yes that is interesting. I always thought my BP clone was sluggish on the return up. It doesn't stay in equilibrium, it does raise on its own (slowly). I guess its supposed to be this way for some reason. My only prior data point was my prior RF-45 mill which retracted quicker, more like a drill press.


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## Susquatch (Aug 9, 2021)

Couldn't find a woodruff key today. Nobody in my part of the world had any stock. So I made my own on the lathe and then cut it in half and ground it to fit better than a purchased one would have. It was fun! 

Installed the clock spring as per the instructions. 1.5 turns worked about perfect as a counterweight.

Back to making my first vise stop tomorrow and then 4 custom vise clamps for my Gerardi Vise after that!


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## trlvn (Aug 10, 2021)

Susquatch said:


> Couldn't find a woodruff key today. Nobody in my part of the world had any stock.


For next time, I've got a stash of various size woodruff keys.  Not all sizes but quite a few.  They came from an auction lot a couple of years ago.

Craig


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## Susquatch (Aug 10, 2021)

trlvn said:


> For next time, I've got a stash of various size woodruff keys.  Not all sizes but quite a few.  They came from an auction lot a couple of years ago.



Will do! And much appreciated.

Maybe if I decide the keep the BP instead of the Hartford, I'll replace the home made key with a proper one. If I do that, I'll be in touch.

Thanks!

Anybody know if there are any special metal requirements for woodruff keys? Hardness, metal type, etc? In other words, is my home made key doomed to fail because it's made from plain cold rolled 1/4" plate?


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## RobinHood (Aug 10, 2021)

Susquatch said:


> Anybody know if there are any special metal requirements for woodruff keys? Hardness, metal type, etc? In other words, is my home made key doomed to fail because it's made from plain cold rolled 1/4" plate?



Like in so many things - it depends on the situation. I think a well fitting key made out of A36 is superior to a sloppy alloy steel (SAE 1035) one.

Here is a little blurb on woodruff keys:
https://www.huyett.com/blog/woodruff-keys


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## 6.5 Fan (Aug 10, 2021)

Good on you making your own woodruff key. I have a kit from PA of various sizes.


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## Susquatch (Aug 10, 2021)

RobinHood said:


> Like in so many things - it depends on the situation. I think a well fitting key made out of A36 is superior to a sloppy alloy steel (SAE 1035) one.
> 
> Here is a little blurb on woodruff keys:
> https://www.huyett.com/blog/woodruff-keys



Great stuff.

One quibble with the article. It indicates that they are normally regular grade steel but designed to shear. But in my experience, shear pins/bolts/keys are normally hardened. Grade 5 is common. That prejudices them to fail in shear as intended (hence the name) instead of bending deformation which often ruins the mating parts.

I repair a lot of farm equipment. The three main causes of damage that I see are improper fastener torque, failure to follow the greasing schedule, and using regular grade bolts as shear bolts when grade 5 Bolts are specified.


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## RobinHood (Aug 10, 2021)

Great point about shear fasteners @Susquatch. Couldn’t agree more about using the correct ones.


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## Susquatch (Aug 21, 2021)

After breaking an end mill, and getting member advice on the cause, I decided to adjust the Gibbs and backlash.

I got the X backlash down to 75 thou at the ends and 85 in the middle. Thats 25 thou less than before. But that's where the screw bottomed out. So I assume that's all there is without replacing or modifying the nut. 

Oddly, I got the Y Axis down to the same 75 & 85 thou and then also ran out of adjustment screw travel. I assume both lead screw assemblies are just equally well worn. 

I also tightened the X Y and Z Gibbs as much as I could without fear of breaking the Gibb screws. It's still not tight because it's still easy to move the table on both axis. Locking any of the Gibbs makes it very difficult to move them so I assume I have simply run out of adjustment on the Gibb screws too. I don't plan to do any more Gibb or leade screw tightening until I decide which mill to keep. If I keep the Bridgeport, I'll probably replace the leade screw assemblies and gibbs

I also discovered that the y axis lock was out of sync with the table  and while I thought it was working, in reality it wasn't locking anything. It now locks the Y Axis solid as a rock.


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## Susquatch (Aug 26, 2021)

RobinHood said:


> That hole goes all the way through. It is not cylindrical. The diameter on the upper surface (facing us) is larger than the diameter where it comes through the plate at the back. Only reason I can think of this would be for is to center the lever pin in the hole without play.
> 
> The little cut-outs you see on the edges are only 1/2 the plate thickness.
> 
> Sorry for not being clear enough. It’s always easier to “see things” when the part is right in front of you…



@Brent H, @Dabbler, @RobinHood @YYCHM, and anyone else who contributed to the resolution of this issue.

I made my first mill repair part this morning using the Bridgeport the part is for. The plate is machined out of a small piece of 1/2" plate left over from torching out the motor adapter plate for my Hartford. It's too bad I didn't take a before picture. It looked a lot like this......






First I ground one side flat and then worked my way around adding referenced sides one at a time and then milling it down to a flat plate 0.185 thick, 0.700 wide, and 0.600 long to fit the slot. Then I used some black grease to mark the plunger path, and then milled a slot to match the path.

Here is the result. It works great!






Another problem resolved.

Still waiting on the belt for the Hartford so I can get that mill working too and then make a final decision.


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## Susquatch (Aug 28, 2021)

I noticed that the sector mesh on the knee crank is a bit mashed up. Probably from loosely engaging it before using it.

I also noticed that most of the photos I see show the crank reversed as though in storage.

I'm thinking about drilling and tapping the end of the shaft for a 10-24 screw and installing a washer stack or a custom keeper made on my lathe to hold the crank on firmly so it cannot wear any further.

Is that a bad idea for some reason that I can't yet appreciate?


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## Brent H (Aug 28, 2021)

@Susquatch, depending on your inseam  and the handle position, you may find you speak an octave or two higher if you leave the crank out while you are moving around the mill.  

I leave mine out when I am in operation but store it when I am fussing about.


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## Susquatch (Aug 28, 2021)

Brent H said:


> @Susquatch, depending on your inseam  and the handle position, you may find you speak an octave or two higher if you leave the crank out while you are moving around the mill.
> 
> I leave mine out when I am in operation but store it when I am fussing about.



Wow, for serious! I've always wanted to sing tenor.... 

I'm quite tall but I suppose walking into it is a potential issue. Actually, I'd be more worried about my wife. She might leave me for a machine.....

OK, so I need to rethink the screw and washer block a LOT more. Needs to be a quick release system of some kind.......


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## Tom O (Aug 28, 2021)

Everyone knows “ Daddy sings bass Momma sings Tenor “


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## RobinHood (Aug 28, 2021)

As Bent says: you want it removable after use. It may be worn on the castellations and have engagement issues with the Z-axis screw, but boy howdy, will it ever engage your lower body parts. I left it hanging out once thinking since I am careful around machines, it’ll be fine. Not.


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## Susquatch (Aug 28, 2021)

Tom O said:


> Everyone knows “ Daddy sings bass Momma sings Tenor “ View attachment 16832



That's too funny! I sing that all the time. But I always add "me and little sister sing along". The grandkids LOVE it. Thx for that.

Thinking one of those mechanisms that you push button to release would work.


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## Susquatch (Aug 28, 2021)

RobinHood said:


> As Bent says: you want it removable after use. It may be worn on the castellations and have engagement issues with the Z-axis screw, but boy howdy, will it ever engage your lower body parts. I left it hanging out once thinking since I am careful around machines, it’ll be fine. Not.



OK, I'm convinced. Noodling a quick release now.

"Castellations" eh..... Way better word than my "sector mesh". Thanks for that.


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## RobinHood (Aug 28, 2021)

Just what I always called them - only because they look like a castellated nut. There probably is a proper milling machine term for it.


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## Susquatch (Sep 2, 2021)

Just discovered another Bridgeport Problem that needs to be fixed asap. 

I was doing just regular maintenance and discovered that one of the big 1/2 Bolts holding the Turret to the base is stripped. It would not take the specified torque. Usually the bolt strips before the nut so I hoped that was the case this time too. No such luck. 

I guess the previous owner over torqued it. Why do so many people hate torque wrenches? 

Obviously, it needs to be fixed. I'll probably thread it oversize or shave down the old nut and weld on a new one. 

But first I need to take the ram off. I'm thinking of strapping up the motor so it doesn't try to flip, and then using a chain fall on an eye bolt in the top of the ram.  That eye bolt is strong enough to hold the entire mill so it should be easily strong enough to to hold the ram and motor. I'm really only worried about the ram flipping. 

I suppose I could remove the whole head before removing the ram, but it seems a bit overkill. 

Any advice on this one?


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## Dabbler (Sep 2, 2021)

In all the very old BP manuals, it shows a big red X about lifting the entire machine by that eye bolt.  The ram is about 1/2 - 5/8 " thick at the eye bolt, so it is a iffy lift at best.  I usually lift using a pair of staps on both sides of the ram when lifting a whole machine. - and even that has it's pucker factor.

lifting the an with the motor on can be done, but here's a much easier, safer, and quicher way, especially when considering reassembly:

If you know how, take the head assembly off the ram.  (more on that if you like)
Position the eye bolt over the centre of the column, and then take the ram, dovetails and the roating assembly off in one go.  It is simpler, easier, and quicker to reassemble.

It is done by accessing the spider through the access door, and removing the bolt.  (and then you'll see why it is dodgy to lift a 2400 lb machine by the eye).  The rotating assembly will come free, and the lift is easy and balanced.


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## John Conroy (Sep 2, 2021)

The PM manual shows lifting the entire mill by the eye bolt, it says the eye bolt is 3/4 10tpi. It also shows lifting the Dabbler describes.  As Dabbler said It is scary lifting that much weight no matter how you do it. If you are just removing the head and ram to access the spider I found it easiest to invert the head 180 degrees and put a 1/2" eyebolt with the threaded part cut off in a collet. This allowed the bulk of the weight to be carried by the ram eye bolt and I was able to keep the ram level with the right length of chain to the spindle eye bolt. I think I would repair the spider with  thread insert like a Heli-Coil or Time-Sert






The "spider" that the ram bolts thread into looks like this.


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## Susquatch (Sep 2, 2021)

Thanks @Dabbler & @John Conroy.

I have turned down the throttle on this subproject considerably. I'm always Leary of lifting big heavy things and doubly so if they are mine! I don't need any accidents.

Ive read both your posts over several times. Most of what you say makes sense. Some doesn't. 

I think I will start by watching the H&W video on disassembling the turret and base, and re-reading the turret section of the re-conditioning manual. I think it also makes sense to fabricate myself  a post fixture to remove the head assembly with. 

My apologies for getting the parts and process so wrong. That's what I get for jumping to conclusions. There is a door in the side of my Hartford Mill that provides access to a storage area inside the mill base. I opened the door and then took a picture of the turret mounting system from below. Here is the photo. 






My first mistake was to assume that the Hartford and the Bridgeport were the same. 

To my eye, It looks like there are four tiny ledges in there whose only job is to hold the red bracket (spider) in place until the four turret bolts are threaded into it. Thereafter, the spider turns with the turret. But should be put back into the ledges for removal. 

I do not see a threaded rod to hold things together. But tben again, it's a Hartford, not a Bridgeport. I will figure it out.

But before I do anything like that, I'll remove the motor and head. That way balance on the ram is not an issue. But regardless, I do have a leveler for my engine hoist that I can use to keep the ram level for removal and reassembly. 

In regards to repairing the spider, I had assumed that it was a forging. It's a little hard to believe that they would use a casting for that. But then again...... If mine is cast iron, I may simply make an all new spider out of steel and weld on four new nuts. But that's just a thought. First I have to get it out and then take a good long hard look at it.


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## Dabbler (Sep 2, 2021)

The only difference between the Hartford and the BP was that in the old BPs I took apart there was a central bolt/nut - but my Hartford looks exactly like the ferro that @John Conroy owns.

If the ram is retracted, the spider can be removed by taking out the 4 bolts.  (I wish some told me that the first time I took apart a BP mill!)


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## John Conroy (Sep 2, 2021)

Good point. You don't even need to remove the ram to get the spider out. Throw in a heli coil and back together in a flash.


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## Susquatch (Sep 3, 2021)

Hey @RobinHood & @Brent H , a, question for you on the Z-axis crank issue again. I think you are both best able to give a good answer since you both seem to have vulnerable body parts.... 

I've been noodling this quick release idea and have not really come up with anything really fast. Just wondering if you would use a short lever (similar to the axis locks) that screwed into a threaded hole in the shaft to hold the crank handle tight while in use and then reversed for storage. 

Or would you use it once or twice and then shelf it. Making such a system is more trouble than it's worth if it doesn't get used.


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## Susquatch (Sep 3, 2021)

John Conroy said:


> Good point. You don't even need to remove the ram to get the spider out. Throw in a heli coil and back together in a flash.



OK, you guys. I have no idea what you and @Dabbler are talking about. But it sounds awesome! How does retracting the ram make that possible?


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## Susquatch (Sep 3, 2021)

Maybe I can answer my own question. If I nod the head back, I think that you guys are suggesting I can crank the ram far enough backward to get access down into the Turret from the front of the ram. 

If this works, the best aspect is that the stripped hole is at the front left corner. 

Assuming this is correct, how far back can you crank it? Does it hit a stop or could you accidentally overdo it? And how big is the resulting opening. Will it fit an XXL arm or will I have to bribe my bride to do this?


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## Brent H (Sep 3, 2021)

Hey @Susquatch, 

Regarding the z axis crank handle:  you want to be able to disengage it and turn it to your desired position for best use - like if I am running up the table in a plunge in with a milling cutter I will typically operate the z- crank between 10 o’clock and 5 o’clock so I am not bending over all the time to crank the handle a full 360°.   This would require a spring type back to keep the handle engaged but also allows you to pull the handle back to relocate it- this would be important if cranking the table to your desired height left the handle in a position that was annoying.  
Another option could be to make the handle you grab become a folding handle - like some ratchet handles - this would help keep the handle away from being a hazard.  
You could also modify a ratchet so that you could use it at whatever position you liked and then rotate it out of the way?  Or you could combine all ideas.  
Some guys make or buy a  splined drill attachment to power assist raising and lowering the table.


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## Susquatch (Nov 25, 2021)

Update - I finally got around to attempting a fix on the Turret Bolt Thread on the BP. 

@Dabbler - Accessing the interior by tilting the head back and moving the ram back didn't work. My hand is way too big and I couldn't see the bolt mount. Turns out it wouldn't have mattered. 

I removed all the Bolts, lifted the Turret assembly off, and had a good look........ 

@John Conroy - a helicoil isn't gunna work on this one. The ear is actually broken right off. 







Judging by the rust on the fracture surface, it's been like that for a very long time. 

Just need to decide whether I make a replacement or buy one online. 

Gives me the willies to realize that it was like that when it was lifted onto my flatbed with the sellers overhead crane and off with my forks.


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## John Conroy (Nov 25, 2021)

This is the best deal I've seen for a new one.









						BRIDGEPORT MILL milling machine WARNING PLATE FOR COLUMN Safety Label  | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for BRIDGEPORT MILL milling machine WARNING PLATE FOR COLUMN Safety Label at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.ca


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## Susquatch (Nov 25, 2021)

John Conroy said:


> This is the best deal I've seen for a new one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Icar has one for $60 us + 50 shipping. H&W is 75 +40.

If I was keeping the BP, I'd make a steel version. But I really just need to be able to load it onto a trailer for a buyer with a clear conscience. So I'll prolly order from Icar. 

Thanks @John Conroy


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## Susquatch (Nov 27, 2021)

I have not added up the bill yet. I'm afraid to. I suspect that what I have into this mill by now, not including my free newbie labour, is adding up to a mill I cannot sell. I might be ending up with two mills....... 

And a very expensive divorce.....


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## gmihovics (Nov 27, 2021)

you just have to explain that you bought a his and hers mill set


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## 6.5 Fan (Nov 27, 2021)

There is a saying "better to beg for forgivness than ask for permission"


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## Susquatch (Nov 27, 2021)

That will never work. She will want the Hartford and I'll be gone for years hunting the Pacific rim for new lead screws and new gibbs.


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## gmihovics (Nov 27, 2021)

Susquatch said:


> That will never work. She will want the Hartford and I'll be gone for years hunting the Pacific rim for new lead screws and new gibbs.


all I hear is couples vacation around the Pacific rim


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## Susquatch (Nov 27, 2021)

6.5 Fan said:


> There is a saying "better to beg for forgivness than ask for permission"


I've tried that many times over the years. I even tried the "I thought you already agreed to this route". The trouble with women (especially the cute ones) is that they are so unpredictable.


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## Tom O (Nov 27, 2021)

No problem, if you line them up you will have a 8’ table.


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## Susquatch (Nov 27, 2021)

I ordered the spider and a few other small parts today. It's adding up.


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## gmihovics (Nov 28, 2021)

Susquatch said:


> I ordered the spider and a few other small parts today. It's adding up.


I'm sure you can find some sucker willing to buy it still


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## Susquatch (Nov 28, 2021)

I prolly won't sell it to a sucker. I'll tell whoever buys it exactly what I know is wrong with it, show them that it works as is, remind them that it's a genuine Bridgeport, and even give them suggestions on how to deal with its two problems. I'll also want a small profit. 

If that doesn't work out, I'll prolly fix it myself as a rebuilt machine and then either sell it for a bigger premium or keep it. I *THINK* the bride would accept that scenario.


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## gmihovics (Nov 28, 2021)

when I say sucker, I mean someone like all of us, someone who is going to be hopelessly addicted to using it.


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## Susquatch (Nov 28, 2021)

gmihovics said:


> when I say sucker, I mean someone like all of us, someone who is going to be hopelessly addicted to using it.



Thanks for that clarification. I misread your comment totally. English sucks at times. 

Ya, poor soul!


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## gmihovics (Nov 29, 2021)

Susquatch said:


> Thanks for that clarification. I misread your comment totally. English sucks at times.
> 
> Ya, poor soul!


that's my fault should have been way more clear, been running in too little sleep these days.


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## Susquatch (Nov 29, 2021)

No sweat. Been there done that.


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## Susquatch (Dec 1, 2021)

ICAI Online order is due early next week.

Trying to decide between an inexpensive VFD and another TECO (100 VS 300) for the Bridgeport. I'd like to be able to demo the machine when I sell it this spring. If I were buying it, I'd pay the extra 200 for the TECO. But I don't think the average buyer out there would do that. 200 bucks is 200 bucks. The mill repairs are already adding up. It might already be past the breakeven point.

I have a few inputs already. What do the rest of you think?


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## Dabbler (Dec 1, 2021)

I always wire the output of my VFD to a plug anyway, so:

To demo the BP, I'd make a point of disconnecting the Hartford and connecting up the BP, explaining that the 'box' is dedicated to the Hartford, but this is for demo only.

after all, the guy may just change the motor.  not your problem.


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## Susquatch (Dec 1, 2021)

Dabbler said:


> I always wire the output of my VFD to a plug anyway, so:
> 
> To demo the BP, I'd make a point of disconnecting the Hartford and connecting up the BP, explaining that the 'box' is dedicated to the Hartford, but this is for demo only.
> 
> after all, the guy may just change the motor.  not your problem.



So the problem is all the custom tuned settings on the Hartford VFD ready motor VS a plain Jane rewound non-vfd motor on the BP. Once or twice won't kill me, but more than 3 times isn't a good idea - plus the potential for screwing something up. Plus maybe the desire to use the BP once in a while before I sell it.

Edit - AND I am in the process of making a control box with switches, readouts, etc for the Hartford & the VFD.


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## 140mower (Dec 1, 2021)

Dabbler said:


> I always wire the output of my VFD to a plug anyway, so:
> 
> To demo the BP, I'd make a point of disconnecting the Hartford and connecting up the BP, explaining that the 'box' is dedicated to the Hartford, but this is for demo only.
> 
> after all, the guy may just change the motor.  not your problem.


Or be running the shop on a phase converter..... A home built one at that.  I agree, keep your cost down and let the buyer decide which option he takes.


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## 140mower (Dec 1, 2021)

> I'm a slow typer...... In light of that, I would be inclined to purchase which ever vfd I would be happy being stuck with, and plan for that, if the buyer wants it, so be it, otherwise having a spare in waiting isn't a bad thing, you can always make a belt grinder.


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## Dabbler (Dec 1, 2021)

Susquatch said:


> custom tuned settings on the Hartford VFD ready motor VS a plain Jane


The TECO support guys tell me that the VFD will accomodate based on back EMf as long as the 2 motors have similar current ratings...


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## Susquatch (Dec 1, 2021)

I do that all the time too. 

Ya, a spare VFD for other equipment isn't a bad idea at all. In fact, I've been eying that motor on my lathe ever since I fired up the VFD on the mill. I think maybe you have the answer. I'll mull it over tonight.


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## Susquatch (Dec 1, 2021)

Dabbler said:


> The TECO support guys tell me that the VFD will accomodate based on back EMf as long as the 2 motors have similar current ratings...



Good point. And I don't have to use the full Hartford Motor speed range.


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## 140mower (Dec 1, 2021)

Susquatch said:


> I do that all the time too.
> 
> Ya, a spare VFD for other equipment isn't a bad idea at all. In fact, I've been eying that motor on my lathe ever since I fired up the VFD on the mill. I think maybe you have the answer. I'll mull it over tonight.


I recently got this one for next to nothing, I figured it was better to have and not need, than to need and not have. It's just a cheap offshore one, and one day I will attempt to wire it up to the lathe. It's way too big at 10 hp and the lathe is two, but I have read that I should be okay, and if not it cost me little more than a couple packs of cigarettes, and I quit them years ago, so it was free... In fact, as I describe it to my wife the whole machine shop was free. Because I bought everything in it with the money I saved, when I buy another truck, I remind her of when I quit drinking.


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## Susquatch (Dec 1, 2021)

140mower said:


> I recently got this one for next to nothing, I figured it was better to have and not need, than to need and not have. It's just a cheap offshore one, and one day I will attempt to wire it up to the lathe. It's way too big at 10 hp and the lathe is two, but I have read that I should be okay, and if not it cost me little more than a couple packs of cigarettes, and I quit them years ago, so it was free... In fact, as I describe it to my wife the whole machine shop was free. Because I bought everything in it with the money I saved, when I buy another truck, I remind her of when I quit drinking. View attachment 18657


This is all GREAT info. 

I just wish I could remember all that when I'm being attacked....


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## 140mower (Dec 1, 2021)

...... well, I make no promises of smooth sailing.


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## Susquatch (Dec 1, 2021)

Dabbler said:


> The TECO support guys tell me that the VFD will accomodate based on back EMf as long as the 2 motors have similar current ratings...



But still, reprogramming all the set points and switch settings, speeds, and break points is a royal PIA. I  really like @140mower idea of just buying another VFD for myself. I will be needing one soon enough for my lathe anyway and I'd prefer to get one the same as the one I have now. 

So I think I will just get the good Teco VFD and install it on the BP. If whoever buys the BP wants the VFD, I'll just add the price, if not they can buy their own or get another motor or whatever they want.


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## Dabbler (Dec 1, 2021)

I mentioned it because I use my VFD on 3 machines, all with a 6.2 - 6.5Amp rating.


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## Susquatch (Dec 2, 2021)

Dabbler said:


> I mentioned it because I use my VFD on 3 machines, all with a 6.2 - 6.5Amp rating.



Yes. That is good info. 

FWIW, mine has already worked on both machines. Their current ratings are similar at 60hz, but using the VFD on them was two different experiences.  

I just don't want to be constantly reconfiguring them for all the switches, the external pot, and the settings. 

And since I'm gunna want another one for my lathe at some point anyway. It just makes sense to get it now. At least that's my thinking on it. 

I dunno if I ever thanked you as much as you deserve to be thanked. Your advice on motors, VFDs, and so much more when I first started down this path was absolutely priceless! Lord only knows how much trouble I would have gotten myself into if you had not coached me as you did.


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## Susquatch (Dec 2, 2021)

Teco VFD Ordered. ETA Monday.

Base to Turret Spider has cleared customs and arrives Monday too.

Edit - Think I'll remove all those industrial switches and breakers and set them aside in case a buyer wants them. Nice place to mount a VFD. 

Let the "Spit and Polish" begin!

Should be a nice looking machine when we are all done!


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## Susquatch (Dec 14, 2021)

My BP needs new Gibb locks. I saw this on Ali. But I dunno about that thread....... 









						15.53C$ 7% OFF|1x Milling Machine Part Table Lock Handle And Bolt Cnc M1/2 Thread Fit Bridgeport - Milling Machine - AliExpress
					

Smarter Shopping, Better Living!  Aliexpress.com




					a.aliexpress.com
				




It's probably not that funny to everyone else but I'm still laughing........


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## PeterT (Dec 14, 2021)

The great thing is they converted M1/2 fastener to 4 significant figures of mm length so you can be assured of accurate dimensions. 
Must be an oversight, but I wonder if that's M1/2x 1.934mm coarse pitch or 1.270mm fine pitch? LOL


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## DPittman (Dec 14, 2021)

I'm going to guess it should say 12mm thread as the major diameter of that would be about 11.7mm.  I believe 1.00mm pitch is considered fine 12mm thread while 1.25mm and 1.75mm are most common, but there can be 1.5mm 12mm threads also. ???????


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## PeterT (Dec 14, 2021)

Maybe the joke is on me. I thought they were 'metricating' a common 1/2" thread, hence my attempt at ha-ha.


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## DPittman (Dec 14, 2021)

PeterT said:


> Maybe the joke is on me. I thought they were 'metricating' a common 1/2" thread, hence my attempt at ha-ha.


Oh no the joke is on me cuz I was too thick to catch the humor.  Sorry it was an impulse response.


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## PeterT (Dec 14, 2021)

The far away suppliers try to be helpful so it's probably not fair for me to snicker. If it wasn't for them I probably couldn't afford hobby machining. 

Sheesh, now that I clicked on that link, all kinds of Bridgeport parts are beckoning LOL





__





						bridgeport - Buy bridgeport with free shipping on AliExpress
					

Quality bridgeport with free worldwide shipping on AliExpress




					www.aliexpress.com


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## Susquatch (Dec 15, 2021)

It was definitely funny as heck to me. But I can laugh easily at all the dumb things I do myself so I feel like that entitles me to laugh at everyone else too!  

In my minds eye, I see this Chinese web guy posting the add on the Ali website, sees the 1/2 for the stud size, and says to himself, "Wow those engineers can be dumb sometimes - they forgot the M in front of the stud size. No biggie, I'll fix it for them." 

Nonetheless, I'd like some locks like that for my mills and the price is right.

Do you think it's actually an imperial half inch lock stud that they figured needed an M in front of it or do you think it really is a metric version of a 1/2" lock with oddball pitch and diameter?


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## PeterT (Dec 15, 2021)

Sometimes they are receptive to answering questions , might save you a desk ornament if it's truly metric and only 'close to' 1/2".
And actually - is a real Bridgeport fine or coarse threads 1/2"? 

This picture kind of appears making a distinction to 'British'?, OD = 12.78mm = 0.491"


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## Susquatch (Dec 15, 2021)

PeterT said:


> Sometimes they are receptive to answering questions , might save you a desk ornament if it's truly metric and only 'close to' 1/2".
> And actually - is a real Bridgeport fine or coarse threads 1/2"?
> 
> This picture kind of appears making a distinction to 'British'?, OD = 12.78mm = 0.491"



Good point. I'll check my BP and then see if they can help.


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## deleted_user (Feb 3, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> I don't know who Keith Fenner is, but




haha I should not be making fun of you


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## Tomc938 (Feb 3, 2022)

I know from experience that you can run at 1/2" - 13 tap through what I assume was a M12 x 1.75 nut and end up with a nut that works quite well on either 1/2" or 12mm.  Don't ask. (It was late at night and cold in the garage)


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## deleted_user (Feb 3, 2022)

RobinHood said:


> 430V is a good thing: take a VFD connect it to 220V and a 3 phase 1:2 step-up transformer to the motor - done.



Jesus, that appears to be a very elegant solution. 

Sometimes you just don't connect the dots... Just like the commutator in a DC motor chops DC current into AC current, the 3 phase pwm output of the VFD does as well.

So I have a few issues... what would be the best carrier frequency to program our VFD for if we wanted to use a step up transformer? Also am I correct in assuming that as the magnetic flux travels thru the iron core of the transformer that it may alter the choppy pwm waveform, and if so might that create issues with the output voltage? I'd think potentially the digital signal just may become more sinusoidal and not affect the output voltage... IDK.

Finally would you know where to get a transformer of an appropriate size for less than a new motor cost?


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## Susquatch (Feb 3, 2022)

TorontoBuilder said:


> Jesus, that appears to be a very elegant solution.
> 
> Sometimes you just don't connect the dots... Just like the commutator in a DC motor chops DC current into AC current, the 3 phase pwm output of the VFD does as well.
> 
> ...



Those are good questions. 

I'd call the VFD manufacturer tech support line to ask that question.

FWIW, I would reverse the process and feed a higher voltage VFD with the transformer rather than feeding the transformer from the VFD. It all gets a lot easier that way and you won't lose so much of the variable speed benefits of the VFD. Just my opinion.


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## YYCHM (Feb 3, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Those are good questions.
> 
> I'd call the VFD manufacturer tech support line to ask that question.
> 
> FWIW, I would reverse the process and feed a higher voltage VFD with the transformer rather than feeding the transformer from the VFD. It all gets a lot easier that way and you won't lose so much of the variable speed benefits of the VFD. Just my opinion.



Apparently putting a transformer between the VFD and motor will not work.  The VFD won't see the voltage/current feed back it needs.


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## deleted_user (Feb 3, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Those are good questions.
> 
> I'd call the VFD manufacturer tech support line to ask that question.
> 
> FWIW, I would reverse the process and feed a higher voltage VFD with the transformer rather than feeding the transformer from the VFD. It all gets a lot easier that way and you won't lose so much of the variable speed benefits of the VFD. Just my opinion.



wont work when I dont have 3 phase power... have to create the 3 phase signal to step up in my case


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## deleted_user (Feb 3, 2022)

YYCHM said:


> Apparently putting a transformer between the VFD and motor will not work.  The VFD won't see the voltage/current feed back it needs.



Thanks for the answer craig. I had never heard that was a possibility so had never looked into such a thing


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## YYCHM (Feb 3, 2022)

TorontoBuilder said:


> wont work when I dont have 3 phase power... have to create the 3 phase signal to step up in my case



Step up the single phase then feed the VFD at the target voltage.


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## Dabbler (Feb 3, 2022)

A transformer after the VFD does 2 things that are unforgivable:  it changes the inductance of the system, and it changes the apparent inrush current - it is the effective inductance and the inrush current that the vfd uses to produce proper motor response when running at low speeds.  At higher speeds, say 30 Hz to 100Hz, your solution would work, but not at peak efficiency.

At alberta prices, it is cheaper to find a 1.5 or 3HP 3ph 220V motor to replace the 575 one instead of the transformer.

[edit] once again - we posted at the same time! oops.


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## Darren (Feb 3, 2022)

a


YYCHM said:


> Step up the single phase then feed the VFD at the target voltage.



thats the preferred way, and besides, 600v vfd's are way cheaper on the used market...nobody wants em.

every vfd will accept single phase input, its whether they will trip on phase loss thats the issue. read the manual, see if phase loss can be ignored. That said, theres ways around that usually.


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## Susquatch (Feb 3, 2022)

TorontoBuilder said:


> wont work when I dont have 3 phase power... have to create the 3 phase signal to step up in my case


If course it will. Step up the single phase to single phase higher voltage. Then run it through the VFD to get 3 phase to run the motor.


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## Susquatch (Feb 3, 2022)

Dabbler said:


> once again - we posted at the same time! oops.



So many posted at the same time I got lost! LMAO! 

I even deleted a post because it somehow got pieces that I didn't put there! 

Oh well, looks like all the right answers are there now.


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## deleted_user (Feb 3, 2022)

YYCHM said:


> Step up the single phase then feed the VFD at the target voltage.


ah! I see now. so I'd need a vfd that accepts a higher input. I have only seen a 380v in the ones i'm used to


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## deleted_user (Feb 3, 2022)

Dabbler said:


> A transformer after the VFD does 2 things that are unforgivable:  it changes the inductance of the system, and it changes the apparent inrush current - it is the effective inductance and the inrush current that the vfd uses to produce proper motor response when running at low speeds.  At higher speeds, say 30 Hz to 100Hz, your solution would work, but not at peak efficiency.
> 
> At alberta prices, it is cheaper to find a 1.5 or 3HP 3ph 220V motor to replace the 575 one instead of the transformer.
> 
> [edit] once again - we posted at the same time! oops.


got it.


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## Susquatch (May 2, 2022)

It was a sad day this past Friday. Much to tell. I sold my Bridgeport this past winter but had to hold onto it till the spring melt was over (too muddy outside the barn doors). Friday was the day we said goodbye.

Very mixed emotions. I have learned to like it even more as I used both mills. No need to stop one job to do another. But I promised my wife that I would develop a monogamous relationship with only one girl before summer. So she had to go. The mill that is...... So I loaded her up and off we went down the 401 to Toronto. This is her leaving me for another machinist.






All safely cribbed and securely tied down so she couldnt jump off the trailer and run back home.

She taught me so much in just a few short months. She will be missed.

On the flip side, the wife never said I couldnt get something else while I was there.

And just like that this stray surface grinder jumped up onto my trailer and followed me home!

Thread 'Another stray machine followed me home.' https://canadianhobbymetalworkers.com/threads/another-stray-machine-followed-me-home.5211/


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## 140mower (May 2, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> It was a sad day this past Friday. Much to tell. I sold my Bridgeport this past winter but had to hold onto it till the spring melt was over (too muddy outside the barn doors). Friday was the day we said goodbye.
> 
> Very mixed emotions. I have learned to like it even more as I used both mills. No need to stop one job to do another. But I promised my wife that I would develop a monogamous relationship with only one girl before summer. So she had to go. The mill that is...... So I loaded her up and off we went down the 401 to Toronto. This is her leaving me for another machinist.
> 
> ...


Well done ol' boy........ Slipped the new machine into the spot the last one occupied before you even had to sweep the dust off the floor. 
And most importantly, with all our newbies of recent, you sir have set an excellent example of how to expand the shop before before swmbo even knew what happened..... Bravo Sir!!!!


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## 140mower (May 2, 2022)

140mower said:


> Well done ol' boy........ Slipped the new machine into the spot the last one occupied before you even had to sweep the dust off the floor.
> And most importantly, with all our newbies of recent, you sir have set an excellent example of how to expand the shop before before swmbo even knew what happened..... Bravo Sir!!!!


Ok, I just went and read your adventure. Yes sir, a medal you deserve, sounds like the family jewels survived, although, perhaps un-needed for the foreseeable future.


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## Susquatch (May 3, 2022)

140mower said:


> Ok, I just went and read your adventure. Yes sir, a medal you deserve, sounds like the family jewels survived, although, perhaps un-needed for the foreseeable future.



Prolly not quite the way that's gunna go....... They are doing triple duty. She views that as required performance to relieve the stress I caused her. And of course, she is wanting that right about the same time I wanna go out to the shop!


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