# The Move is on - Stairs and 3 tons



## Dabbler (Feb 8, 2020)

I'm starting the big move from Bert's shop to my garage.  I'll be starting on the 3400 (3700?) pound lathe  -I'll know the weight soon!  Then the Mill will be disassembled, and all the small bits will be moved.

This has been months in preparation, as the stairs and the turns created some serious obstacles, and the professionals wanted ten thousand dollars just to move the lathe.

The first project was to build a traveling  'joist hoist' along with carriage. heavy parts will be hoisted and placed on the wooden cradle, prior to being hauled out the window. I used the JH to help assemble the  gantry crane, then disaster happened!  I missed taking one dimension: the lowest point in the basement is the beam that separates the machines to the way out:  my crane was 5" too tall!

So a week of modifying the crane, and the crane is in operation.  I've now got about a third of the tear down of the lathe done.

Here are pictures of the joist hoist and modified gantry crane.  the video of part 1 of the disassembly will take about a week to edit and process...


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## Johnwa (Feb 8, 2020)

If you need some help or someone to supervise[emoji848] give me a call.


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## John Conroy (Feb 8, 2020)

Looks like a massive project John. I hope it goes well. That lathe looks like a monster.


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## PeterT (Feb 8, 2020)

That's going to be one for the resume, John. Good luck. Be safe.


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## CalgaryPT (Feb 8, 2020)

You're amazing @Dabbler. You've got the tenacity of a badger on these lifts. Keep us all posted. I'm tired just imagining the work going into this.


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## Perry (Feb 8, 2020)

To add to Johnwa's offer, if you need help I'm also available.


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## Hruul (Feb 9, 2020)

Wow.  Looks like great work so far.  Looking forward to seeing how it goes.


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## Chicken lights (Feb 9, 2020)

Same here


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## Bofobo (Feb 10, 2020)

Looks just like My basement ceiling....  at least my lathe move is straight up the hole and out the door (kinda) .... my guess is that lathe went in vertical, like moving 3seat a couch around a small corner


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## Dabbler (Feb 11, 2020)

The movie footage isn't edited yet, my bad, but I'm just learning these tools.  

What is left is the headstock and the lathe bed on the stands.  The rest is off the lathe,but I encountered a problem, well I knew it on the last post, but now I have a way to fix it.... When I measured the old 4X8 beam for the new 4X4 beam, I forgot that changing the triangle's height would change the hypotenuse length.  In sort, the legs no longer stand at 90 degrees, and essential thing for the crane to be strong.

So I will be drilling new holes in the diagonal members before taking the headstock off the lathe.  

For a teaser, here are a few shots of the progress:


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## Tom Kitta (Feb 11, 2020)

Bridge  crane is the way to go to move these machines. It is so much easier then any other method except maybe forklift if tool is on a pallet. Let me know if you need some help.


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## David_R8 (Feb 11, 2020)

Amazing work!
How did all of this machinery get down there?


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## YYCHM (Feb 11, 2020)

David_R8 said:


> How did all of this machinery get down there?



That was discussed in this thread.

https://canadianhobbymetalworkers.com/threads/sale-of-tool-and-die-shop.1664/


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## David_R8 (Feb 11, 2020)

Thanks @YYCHobbyMachinist.
What an ordeal.


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## Dabbler (Feb 11, 2020)

@Tom Kitta I have a gantry crane and that seems just perfect for disassembly...  Solving how to lift each piece out of the basement needed some creative thinking, however.  That phase is coming soon!

_*The lathe is now disassembled.*_ @RobinHood was available, and we spent 7 hours getting the headstock off the ways, and the lathe bed off the stands.  One oopsie - a missed bolt during the bed lift, but no harm done.  No big surprises, but a nice thing was that each piece was a lot lighter than we expected.  Headstock 475 lbs, Lathe bed 690 lbs, Headstock  end lathe stand 500 lbs.  A good news story is that the 400 lb small moving dolly from Princess Auto holds the 475 lb heasdstock very well, and we managed to even roll it around overloaded!

Pretty soon there will be a Window Lift Party, where the lathe bed, the mill ram and the mill ring will all be extricated from Bert's basement and put on a borrowed trailer...  I think in about a week.
the Go Pro malfunctioned and there are no shots of the final disassembly (except all black ones)!  arrg!

sorry about the no photos thing.


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## CalgaryPT (Feb 11, 2020)

Dabbler said:


> @Tom Kitta I have a gantry crane and that seems just perfect for disassembly...  Solving how to lift each piece out of the basement needed some creative thinking, however.  That phase is coming soon!
> 
> _*The lathe is now disassembled.*_ @RobinHood was available, and we spent 7 hours getting the headstock off the ways, and the lathe bed off the stands.  One oopsie - a missed bolt during the bed lift, but no harm done.  No big surprises, but a nice thing was that each piece was a lot lighter than we expected.  Headstock 475 lbs, Lathe bed 690 lbs, Headstock  end lathe stand 500 lbs.  A good news story is that the 400 lb small moving dolly from Princess Auto holds the 475 lb heasdstock very well, and we managed to even roll it around overloaded!
> 
> ...


What @Dabbler's not saying is that he built the crane. I've seen it and it's a BEAUTY. Until of course you have to move it, I expect.


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## Dabbler (Feb 12, 2020)

CalgaryPT said:


> Until of course you have to move it,



I MAY have overbuilt it a little!


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## Dabbler (Feb 15, 2020)

News update...  The Mill is now disassembled.  1/2 day of prep and 1/2 day of disassembly has it down to all its bits.  (Thanks again @RobinHood)  Here is a few teasers about the result.  (I forgot to bring my camera in until it was more than half done)

This Saturday the 22nd, there will be a lathe bed move out the window and a few of the essentials going with as well.  A bunch of people have offered to help, and I'd appreciate 3 people to come and help that day.  Let's PM about it for those interested.  Soon thereafter will be a winching event where all the really heavy stuff is being winched up the stairs.

FYI the mill base weighs 900 lbs, the ram is 220 lbs, the knee is 220lbs.  The table, Y axis and yoke were not weighed as they are too light to worry about.


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## David_R8 (Feb 15, 2020)

One word, three letters: Wow!


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## YYCHM (Feb 15, 2020)

What are you using to weigh this stuff?


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## Dabbler (Feb 15, 2020)

I purchased a one ton crane scale from Amazon.ca.  Each item was raised on the gantry with it to determine weight.


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## YotaBota (Feb 15, 2020)

That's almost like building the boat in the basement and then trying to get it out.


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## Dabbler (Feb 15, 2020)

Gravity is *not* your friend!


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## trlvn (Feb 16, 2020)

YotaBota said:


> That's almost like building the boat in the basement and then trying to get it out.





Dabbler said:


> Gravity is *not* your friend!



Are you sure the house won't float away when you remove all this ballast!



Craig


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## TOBARApprentice (Feb 17, 2020)

And to think the wives have the nerve to call us crazy!!! Anyone can pick up a sewing machine, or some stamps and some craft paper...... It takes a profound group of idiots to get thousands of pounds of oversized, nearly unmanageable chunks of steel into the basement for the expressed purpose of making little chips of metal; one of which always seems to find its way into her slipper. I will add however that said group of idiots is a group I dare say I am proud to be a part of!! Well done lads!! Thanks to your pics, my basement shop is getting a Bridgeport!!


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## CalgaryPT (Feb 17, 2020)

TOBARApprentice said:


> And to think the wives have the nerve to call us crazy!!! Anyone can pick up a sewing machine, or some stamps and some craft paper...... It takes a profound group of idiots to get thousands of pounds of oversized, nearly unmanageable chunks of steel into the basement for the expressed purpose of making little chips of metal; one of which always seems to find its way into her slipper. I will add however that said group of idiots is a group I dare say I am proud to be a part of!! Well done lads!! Thanks to your pics, my basement shop is getting a Bridgeport!!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Best laugh I've had all week. 

Oh, by the way...we're all dead men if our wives see this.


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## Tom O (Feb 17, 2020)

I’m not opening the freezer!


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## Dabbler (Feb 19, 2020)

It's been a big week.  Both the lathe and mill are ready for moving - completely disassembled.  Everything over 100lbs has been weighed and marked, ready for various forms of egress...  Today was a really long one - lots of little things to prep, taking down the gantry crane, and reassembling the A frames outside.  Taking the heat treat furnace off the stand, and putting it on a flat dolly.  Lots more.  I filled my truck with all the bits under 75 lbs, and there was a lot of it.

So tomorrow there will be  a short removal of more stuff, prepping for Saturday (moving the 700 lb lathe bed and 250 lb mill ram).  Hopefully it won't take too long to get the main beam on the gantry this time!

... and some time later, perhaps 2 weeks will be the really heavy stuff, including the 900 lb base of the mill.  I can't wait!  We will be looking for good weather, because we don't want any ice in the way for people to fall.

(700 lb heat treat furnace, 1400 lb surface grinder, 900 lb Bridgeport base, 500 lb headstock, and 500 lb headstock base)  After weighing all the stuff it is closer to 4 tons total!


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## CalgaryPT (Feb 20, 2020)




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## Dabbler (Feb 22, 2020)

Saturday update:  we all converged around 10 AM.  A really REALLY big shoutout and thanks to @kevin.decelles @Johnwa, @Janger and RickJ for all their help today!  This was the window winchin' part of the lathe move.  There were originally only 2 pieces to move, but we ended up with 3:  The lathe bed, the Bridgeport ram, and one of the two lathe stands.

The test piece was the mill ram, and it taught us a little about heights and transferring the weight out through the window:





Then we prepped the lathe bed and winched it out the window in 3 or 4 steps:














to be continued...


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## Dabbler (Feb 22, 2020)

We the had lunch and then converged at my garage and unloaded.  around 5 and a half hours, including our nearly 1 hour lunch.


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## YYCHM (Feb 22, 2020)

Well done!!!!  What's left to move now?  I see a bandsaw in one of the images.


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## PeterT (Feb 22, 2020)

Mind boggling what you've accomplished.


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## John Conroy (Feb 22, 2020)

Nice work guys!!


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## CalgaryPT (Feb 22, 2020)

My rotator cuffs hurt just looking at the pics. Great teamwork guys.


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## Dabbler (Feb 23, 2020)

I was too terse yesterday, but I'll blame being tired.  The optimistic tone of the last move post is a little deceiving.  The really big and dangerous part of the move is yet to be done!

To directly answer @YYCHobbyMachinist the next move will include the heat treat furnace (675lbs), the headstock (475lbs), the mill base (900 lbs) and the surface grinder (est. 1300 lbs)  Only the surface grinder can be broken down any further, and that is to take the table off at about 110lbs.

So we now have to make a hole in his outside wall to accommodate a winch cable, build some rollers to direct the winch cables, and a deck outside his back door.  The step from his landing to the outside slab is over 11 inches.  The actual move will involve removing both back door and screen door, along with his 9 foot wide fence gate. (of course all has to be put back after all is done).

The logistics of moving the items off the back deck to a trailer deck have not yet been solved. I'm exploring several options at the moment.


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## Chicken lights (Feb 23, 2020)

Dabbler said:


> I was too terse yesterday, but I'll blame being tired.  The optimistic tone of the last move post is a little deceiving.  The really big and dangerous part of the move is yet to be done!
> 
> To directly answer @YYCHobbyMachinist the next move will include the heat treat furnace (675lbs), the headstock (475lbs), the mill base (900 lbs) and the surface grinder (est. 1300 lbs)  Only the surface grinder can be broken down any further, and that is to take the table off at about 110lbs.
> 
> ...


Could you winch it straight out and onto a tilt n load tow truck?
One where the flatbed moves back and angles down


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## Brent H (Feb 23, 2020)

Could you use a "stinger truck" like the ones the guys use for putting roof trusses up onto a house?  Probably expensive though.....but they have a pretty good reach.

Would be very interesting to be the "fly on the wall" when the equipment was originally moved in.  Sounds like it was dropped into the foundation and the house built on top....

I must applaud your great efforts to move this equipment!  wow!


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## David_R8 (Feb 23, 2020)

Brent H said:


> Would be very interesting to be the "fly on the wall" when the equipment was originally moved in. Sounds like it was dropped into the foundation and the house built on top....



I was just thinking the same thing!


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## Dabbler (Feb 23, 2020)

'how it got in there" is a cool story, so here's the summary.  Each machine was brought in separately, but all were purchased during the 1982, 1986, and the early '90s recessions.  Bert had NO money at all to do anything fancy.  The mill, which came first, was slid down plywood in parts on the stairs by out-of-work piano movers.  The entire move cost, from back deck to basement floor: 75 bucks.  The lathe was next in early '85.  that was done by an independent moving company, again low on work.  total cost for 5 guys and 3 hours? 225 bucks.  

Even the surface grinder was slid down plywood over the stairs.  Gravity sucks!

Very helpful suggestions, but there is a wee problem:  The back door is only accessible via a 9 foot gate, which is impeded by a big concrete block about 24" wide.  So there is only 7 feet of available width to get a truck in back.  We had to haul the lathe bed almost 20 feet to the trailer...  I think it would be butt-puckering and expensive to crane lift the bridgeport base over top the house!

i'm currently leaning on a multipart move:  1) up the stairs and out on the deck.  2) hoist them off the deck and onto moving dollies, on the wrong side of the deck (not enough room on the 'good' side).  3) disassemble the deck, and move them into crane position in front of the gate opening.  4) hire the headstone guys to take the parts onto their flat-deck and away!

So a multi day affair, as it would be very expensive to have the crane guy waiting on all the movements.  FYI every part of this move has been planned in excrutiating detail like this.  Months of work.


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## Hruul (Feb 23, 2020)

Wow!!  Amazing work guys.


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## Brent H (Feb 23, 2020)

Hey Dabbler, 

What about a pallet jack - set the gear on a pallet, jack it up and roll across the deck on plywood sheet?  Not sure of the set up?  Some moving trucks have the lift on the back - roll pallet onto the lift and up ya go?

That is insane the work to get that gear into the basement....

I got lucky and my neighbour bought a fork truck the same week I bought my mill - LOL - worked out quite well.


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## Dabbler (Feb 23, 2020)

Once I disassemble the temporary deck, I can use the sheets to move stuff around, sort of.  I don't want to think about trying to get the 900 lb mill base up a 3/4" 'step' - a pry bar is my friend!

I have a hand operated fork truck on site right now.  It doesn't roll well on the broken concrete slab.


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## Dabbler (Feb 28, 2020)

So we are now waiting on the contractor to make a hole in his house for a winch cable.  In the mean time, I am restoring disturbed electrical and setting up for the first part B moves.

Today we un-wired the headstock wiring - this lathe has servo motor shifting, so we documented 22 wires/locations, along with removing the conduits from the parts so they can be moved independently.  Almost ready for a lathe rebuild thread!


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## Brent H (Feb 28, 2020)

> So we are now waiting on the contractor to make a hole in his house for a winch cable.



This sounds like one expensive tool removal!  holy smokes - Value in the move verses the tools?  I guess they have to come out at some point  -I guess my question is - Was there a good deal on the tool to make the demo/repairs worth while? - beyond the  "ya baby gotta mill ....woo hoo dance and all that...."


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## YYCHM (Feb 28, 2020)

We need a sketch or photos as to why you need to put a hole in the house for the winch cable?  It's all going out a door correct?  Why can't the winch cable feed through the door?

We're rooting for you.  Go Dabbler Go.


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## Dabbler (Feb 28, 2020)

Here's a picture of the basement and winch path:


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## Dabbler (Feb 29, 2020)

Another solution has come up...  The carpenter that was doing the cutting of the siding/drywall has access to a tilt bed truck with a 6000 crane on it, and a stinger head (a head that rotates +-90 degrees).  With that, we can obviate the need for rollers, and hoist everything onto the flatbed.  Might make it a lot easier! 

He and I will have a look on Tuesday to see if it will work!


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## Brent H (Feb 29, 2020)

Woo Hoo!!

That would be great and so less taxing on the back!!


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## YYCHM (Feb 29, 2020)

Dabbler said:


> Another solution has come up...  The carpenter that was doing the cutting of the siding/drywall has access to a tilt bed truck with a 6000 crane on it, and a stinger head (a head that rotates +-90 degrees).  With that, we can obviate the need for rollers, and hoist everything onto the flatbed.  Might make it a lot easier!
> 
> He and I will have a look on Tuesday to see if it will work!



Do you still have to cut a hole in the house for a winch cable now?


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## CalgaryPT (Feb 29, 2020)

Whenever I read the progress here I am ashamed that I ever referred to the loading issues into my garage as a PIA.


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## Perry (Feb 29, 2020)

I'm taking a guess here, but I think Dabbler may have been present when the pyramids were built.


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## kevin.decelles (Mar 1, 2020)

Thinking out of the box.......... was the house for sale? 


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## Dabbler (Mar 1, 2020)

Bert originally offered the house and shop to a young guy who was aspiring to be a millwright.  He wanted 50K$ for the shop part.  Ryan declined and bought a modern house.

Bert feels he will be in this house for quite a while yet (he's almost 87)...

ANyway, taking the weekend off, and then restarting next week!  75% done and no roadblocks yet!


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## CalgaryPT (Mar 1, 2020)

Dabbler said:


> ANyway, taking the weekend off, and then restarting next week!  75% done and no roadblocks yet!


Rest your back.


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## Hruul (Mar 1, 2020)

Good luck, sounds like you have had it so far. (likely do to the immense planning) Hope it holds up.


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## Dabbler (Mar 3, 2020)

So some good news!  the carpenter is bringing a car hauler with a 6000lb winch and we are using that to winch up the stairs:  will save a LOT of work.  Still going out the back door, and doing the gantry crane dance.

So  we made the hole in the wall, and have a plan to extract everything.Here are the inside and outside photos of the hole.  The pictures of the surface grinder will have to wait until I go back - the pictures were blurry.


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## Dabbler (Mar 7, 2020)

Yesterday was a long day, even if it wasn't planned that way!  Below is a picture of Bert, doing his last job on his last machine in the shop.  Shortly after,  the electrics were disconnected.






I drained the hydraulic sump and prepped for raising.  after 3 hours of raising, we were only 4" off the floor.  Bert was very sheepish about using the lifting jacks for more than an inch at a time.  His worry was toppling the machine over and ruining it.  So went very slow and steady...

A problem is that the machine makes a tripod, with two feet in the front and one in the back.  A 3/4" plywood deck can't handle nearly 1000lbs point load in the middle of the long side of the dolly, so some rethinking was needed.  More time!

Here's the pictures of the blocking.  Only 2.5" higher to go!  Sorry about the blurry.  Tired.


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## Dabbler (Mar 7, 2020)

Today went well, but was about 5 hours - time flies when you are concentrating...

Here's the grinder on its custom dolly just before all the scaffolding was removed:


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## PeterT (Mar 8, 2020)

Step by step, way to go!
I keep looking at those machines & how they got down there to begin with. Any polaroids stuffed away in shoe boxes? That must have been an equally Herculean effort. Or did the machines get spotted in by crane after the foundation was poured & house built around them? LOL


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## Dabbler (Mar 8, 2020)

really, the way down was very easy compared.  Just a plywood covering on the stairs and elbow grease to get them down.  The piano movers used a pry bar to make the bottom of the stairs.  Once down, a small pallet jack and presto!

The way in was not exiting at all.


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## Bofobo (Mar 9, 2020)

Well I’m good to make about 259lbs move a couple inches at a time up 8%grade for at least 100m in 20 lbs of gear on a hot day, so just a few more young man power might be all you need.


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## Tom Kitta (Mar 9, 2020)

I think it is clear that unless you have rather small machines having your workshop in a garage is a better idea. You can always have a house attached garage. Also no need to worry about caring metal swarf all over the house or cutting oil fumes. For model making through with smaller machines you can reserve a room in the house - I seen few setups and they are laboratory clean - would also work in a basement. 

It is already a pain to move in and out machines from a garage. From a basement ... large machines & you get yourself weeks or months or work.


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## David_R8 (Mar 10, 2020)

I cannot imagine having to orchestrate this kind of move. 
Amazing work by all!


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## CalgaryPT (Mar 10, 2020)

Tom Kitta said:


> I think it is clear that unless you have rather small machines having your workshop in a garage is a better idea. You can always have a house attached garage. Also no need to worry about caring metal swarf all over the house or cutting oil fumes. For model making through with smaller machines you can reserve a room in the house - I seen few setups and they are laboratory clean - would also work in a basement.
> 
> It is already a pain to move in and out machines from a garage. From a basement ... large machines & you get yourself weeks or months or work.


You should open a consulting service that (for a fee) convinces wives of this perspective. Mine for years was under the erroneous impression that a garage is for cars. I eventually got her to come around by explaining that cars already have roofs—and therefore a garage is redundant.

But I would have paid for your services 25 years ago and saved a lot of nights on the couch.


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## Dabbler (Mar 10, 2020)

sorry no pictures today - I forgot the camera, and it was supposed to be a quick clean up day.  Well, 5 hours later there was cleaning, but also the mill is now on it's custom dolly, and all the machines are tied down to their dollies.  A lot of stuff, like tools, and bits for the mill, were slung into my truck.  About 1/2 of the blocking is now in my shop.  There's over 50 pcs of blocking - it takes a lot of bits to do blocking correctly!

Tomorrow is prepping the surface grinder for hauling, and building a deck off his back door.


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## CalgaryPT (Mar 10, 2020)

Dabbler said:


> sorry no pictures today - I forgot the camera, and it was supposed to be a quick clean up day.  Well, 5 hours later there was cleaning, but also the mill is now on it's custom dolly, and all the machines are tied down to their dollies.  A lot of stuff, like tools, and bits for the mill, were slung into my truck.  About 1/2 of the blocking is now in my shop.  There's over 50 pcs of blocking - it takes a lot of bits to do blocking correctly!
> 
> Tomorrow is prepping the surface grinder for hauling, and building a deck off his back door.


John, if you ever offer a Lunch and Learn session on how to lift machinery, I want to be there.


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## Dabbler (Mar 11, 2020)

CalgaryPT said:


> John, if you ever offer a Lunch and Learn session



I'll think about it, when there's time!


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## Dabbler (Mar 19, 2020)

Sooooo, about time for an update, for those interested...  The SG is on its dolly, but not de-wired from the breaker, yet.  The mill base is on its own dolly, ready to go.  

Due to Covid19, Bert is self isolating (he's 88 yrs old) and so all progress is stopped until the worst is over.

I can build the back deck and do the outside prep without interacting with Bert, so next week will be outside prep, and then wait for an 'all clear' on the Covid thing.


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## Dabbler (May 8, 2020)

Today's the day!

During the COVID19 shut down, I've finished the electrical, and finished all the prep work.

Bert insisted that we go ASAP, so we put protocols in place to protect him (and each other) from easily spreading the malaise.
6 items to winch up the stairs, and everything is out!!!

(there will be pictures, I promise)!


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## TOBARApprentice (May 8, 2020)

Go like hell man!! We’re all rooting for you. 


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## Chicken lights (May 8, 2020)

Good luck!!


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## kevin.decelles (May 8, 2020)

Measure twice, move once


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## Hruul (May 8, 2020)

Good luck, hope all goes well.


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## Dabbler (May 9, 2020)

Yesterday was a long day, and I have to thank @johnnielsen,  @Johnwa, Rick J, and Doug L for fantastic help!

Things went as expected with a bunch of little changes to the plan as we discovered balance points and problems in rigging and process...

I measured incorrectly and the mill base wouldn't fit up the stairs, an so we had to let it back down the stairs, and change things, but ultimately it came up just fine.

Everything got up except for the surface grinder, which will take a rethink.


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## David_R8 (May 9, 2020)

Impressive stuff everyone!


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## PeterT (May 9, 2020)

Way to go guys. 
What was on the 'pulling' end of that cable moving the machine up the stair skids?


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## JohnnyTK (May 9, 2020)

Very impressive!


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## CalgaryPT (May 9, 2020)

I'm in awe. Great work.


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## Dabbler (May 9, 2020)

That was a large auto hauler with a 10,000 lb winch.  A redirect was set up on the corner of the bed and the cable went straight through the wall and down the stairs.


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## YotaBota (May 9, 2020)

Agree with all the accolades, it's the type of project would like to have been able to help with. I've been following from the start and enjoying the engineering solutions and pictures.
What machines are you keeping?


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## Dabbler (May 9, 2020)

I've purchased a lathe, a Bridgeport mill clone, a belt sander, a sandblast cabinet, wash tank, compressor, and several pedestal grinders.

Somehow, to make room, I'll have to sell one of my mills and one of my lathes.  Down the road, probably another lathe.


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## Tom Kitta (May 10, 2020)

Huge expedition - I am not surprised professionals wanted more to move it out then it was worth.


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## Dabbler (May 10, 2020)

The professional movers, to a one, refused to take the job at any price: too dangerous to do.


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## CalgaryPT (May 10, 2020)

Dabbler said:


> The professional movers, to a one, refused to take the job at any price: too dangerous to do.


_If you have a lift_, if no one else _can_ help, and _if you can_ find him, maybe you _can_ hire... the @Dabbler.


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## Hruul (May 11, 2020)

Thank you @Dabbler for all the pictures and taking the time to write this move out for us.


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## Dabbler (May 11, 2020)

Well, there is moving 2 more things from his back yard to my shop and one more lift outta the basement.  

--This last lift is the most complex and dangerous lift of them all - the surface grinder is too tall to go up the stairs without laying it down... once it is at the top of the stairs, it has to be righted before it goes on the landing.

I'm pretty sure how to do it, but it will take some fabrication and setup.


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## johnnielsen (May 14, 2020)

We loaded the LEBLONDE lathe headstock this morning and took it to John C.'s garage.


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## YYCHM (May 14, 2020)

Wowa…….  That image really gives some scale to what was actually pulled out of that basement


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## Alexander (May 14, 2020)

That is some big iron to haul up the stairs. Pretty impressive


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## Dabbler (May 14, 2020)

So all of the lathe and tooling is in my garage.  Just one 'little' piece of the mill to bring over, the mill base (900 lbs by itself) 

However, I promised Bert I'd get his surface grinder out of his basement as well.  It needs more prep and disassembly, and more building is needed...  (the pictures will be fab - wait and see!!!)

-- So the reassembly process of the lathe begins.  I'll start a separate thread for that one, assuming people would like to see how it goes.

... anyone interested in how much it costs to move a bunch of machines up stairs and relocate them 27 Km away?


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## YYCHM (May 14, 2020)

Where is the mill base?  Still in the basement?

Of course we want to see how the lathe reassembly goes and are interested in the final cost of removal.

What's the plan for the surface grinder?  Can you break it down into manageable pieces?


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## Dabbler (May 14, 2020)

The mill base is in Bert's back yard, and I'll move it as soon as I have room for it.  That will prob be in 3 weeks.

We have to lay the SG down on it's back onto a cradle, as the back of the machine is rounded.  It will come up the 45 degree slope of the stairs on its back.  However we have to remove the hydraulic table piston, and we need to drain the hydraulic tank, as we didn't drain it.  It wouldn't have been necessary if Plan A would have worked.

There will be a neat trick at the top of the stairs as the SG is 73" tall and the landing is 39" wide.  You will see how we solved that one when we move it, by pictures.....

The SG cannot be disassembled, as it would take a factory technician to reassemble it due to critical alignment requirements.  The spec is to allow only 5 micron per 100mm out of square.


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## trlvn (May 15, 2020)

Is this basically the concept you're going to use?








(That's a grand piano on the dolly if the picture isn't clear.)

Craig


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## Dabbler (May 15, 2020)

I don't see the picture.  A simple plywood cradle with 2X4s cut out to fit...


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## trlvn (May 15, 2020)

Dabbler said:


> I don't see the picture.  A simple plywood cradle with 2X4s cut out to fit...


Trying again...





Craig
(Anybody else have problems seeing the first one?)


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## PeterT (May 15, 2020)

I can see both post pics just fine


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## Dabbler (May 16, 2020)

I can see the picture now.  Still can't see the first one, but no biggie.

The stairs are covered with 2X8 on flat and we have  a wheeled platform for dragging it up.  So the cradle will be just 3/4 plywood with 2 X 4s cut to match the contour of the spine of the machine.


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## trlvn (May 17, 2020)

Dabbler said:


> The stairs are covered with 2X8 on flat and we have  a wheeled platform for dragging it up.  So the cradle will be just 3/4 plywood with 2 X 4s cut to match the contour of the spine of the machine.


That's basically how the piano cradle works.  The key is that the wheels at the corner are in contact whether the item is laid down or stood up.  That makes it "easier" to manipulate.  Not easy but somewhat less difficult.  The frame doesn't even have to be super-strong since it is securely strapped to the item being moved.  

Craig


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## Dabbler (Jul 6, 2020)

So Bert hired out the surface grinder lift (what a relief!) so my moving of stuff is over, except for the mill base, which will happen late next week, and is very easy.

I wish that were all, but I have to repair all the wiring that had to be cut.  And deinstall the rotary phase converter.  So not quite done, yet - but soon!


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## YYCHM (Jul 6, 2020)

What did the surface grinder removal cost?


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## Dabbler (Jul 6, 2020)

It is not my place to ask.


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## Dabbler (Jul 25, 2020)

OK so everything is moved, but I am storing the compressor and sand blast cabinet off site for a while.  Here is the mill base being lowered onto its dolly for moving into my garage:


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## YYCHM (Jul 25, 2020)

Where did the surface grinder end up?


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## RobinHood (Jul 25, 2020)

Dabbler said:


> OK so everything is moved



You must be happy about that. What a huge amount of work. Well done John.


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## Dabbler (Jul 25, 2020)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> Where did the surface grinder end up?



It is in his back yard with a tarp on it.

I'd be seriously remiss if I didn't thank John Nielsen for his extraordinary patience and incredible help he provided.  Also Rick J for helping so much with such a positive attitude.  And a special kudos to Janger for helping in a pinch and being there when we needed him!  And thanks also to JohnWa for coming in and helping at the drop of a hat, and making super suggestions when I was running out of ideas.  I couldn't have done it without you guys.

... Now to begin selling a bunch of my extra stuff to make room!


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## Chicken lights (Jul 26, 2020)

Dabbler said:


> It is in his back yard with a tarp on it.
> 
> I'd be seriously remiss if I didn't thank John Nielsen for his extraordinary patience and incredible help he provided.  Also Rick J for helping so much with such a positive attitude.  And a special kudos to Janger for helping in a pinch and being there when we needed him!  And thanks also to JohnWa for coming in and helping at the drop of a hat, and making super suggestions when I was running out of ideas.  I couldn't have done it without you guys.
> 
> ... Now to begin selling a bunch of my extra stuff to make room!


Personally I think it’s awesome when people help others out, regardless if they’re friends or strangers. What’s even better is how zany this was. 

“Hey John’s wanna give me a hand moving 100 tons from a basement to my place?”

“Yeah gimme 10 minutes I’m on my way”


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## PeterT (Jul 26, 2020)

I'm in awe that you guys moved machines of that size/weight/shape from a challenging location. Bravo. Once the dust settles I hope they bring many hours of happy machining.


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## Dabbler (Oct 26, 2020)

@YYCHobbyMachinist the answers to your questions:

1) the move cost $4,280, including all materials and expenses.

2) the surface grinder is under a tarp in his back yard.  


All parts, except a 200lb knee are all moved, into my shop or someone else's.

*thus endeth the thread*


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## deleted_user (Jan 10, 2022)

Well done and no one got killed or seriously injured. 

This is always a huge worry for me. I worked my way thru university installing hvac equipment and had a guy carrying the upper end of an old oil furnace we were carrying up the basement stairs drop it on me. Thank god it was not a cast iron boiler.

Risks like these are why almost all professional movers refuse such jobs. Even those who haul machine tools. They hate basements. as much as I do

I've moved some heavy cast iron in my time, mostly salvaging large antique cast iron radiators that were going to be trashed, but also more than a few pieces of machinery. Almost always by sliding the objects on custom made wood ramps using a power winch fastened to some structure. I favour 1" thick x 36" wide plywood because the lip is lower and easier to push a 4" diameter wheel over. 

I have also learned that the very best resource is a flat bed tow truck operator. They should be your goto moving help. Once you get the items out onto dollies at grade tow operators will haul cheaper than anyone else, and they typically know how to fasten a load. 

Aside from an antique Barnes lathe too cool to pass up I've passed on every lathe and knee mill I went to look at in a basement because I don't want to take the risk.  I applaud the massive effort you and your friends made to move this equipment. Very very impressive.


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## deleted_user (Jan 10, 2022)

Dabbler said:


> @YYCHobbyMachinist the answers to your questions:
> 
> 1) the move cost $4,280, including all materials and expenses.
> 
> ...



It is not the cost of the equipment that hurts, it's the removal fees. 

"Under a tarp" breaks my heart because it is so often synonymous with under a shroud


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## Dabbler (Jan 10, 2022)

TorontoBuilder said:


> synonymous with under a shroud


The dials and handles are already rusted, and some other non-critical areas are pitted by rust.  It has been under tarp for 16 or 17 months now.  It is ready for another 4 months of winter.  By the time he tries to sell it, the thing will be worthless.


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## deleted_user (Jan 10, 2022)

Dabbler said:


> The dials and handles are already rusted, and some other non-critical areas are pitted by rust.  It has been under tarp for 16 or 17 months now.  It is ready for another 4 months of winter.  By the time he tries to sell it, the thing will be worthless.



That is so sad. I have been to look at a number of surface grinders that I was assured by the owner that they remained in good condition despite their storage conditions and they were all invariably unsalvageable.  As soon as equipment is outdoors it is always better to just give it away to anyone willing to remove it for free. Otherwise in many cases you pay to have it removed.

I know a gentleman who kept a 30 sloop in his driveway for decades until it rotted. Fiscal loss of 100K. Lucky he wasn't paying storage fees.


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## Tom Kitta (Jan 10, 2022)

2 years under a tarp is a long time - unless he oiled the thing every month or something to prevent it from rusting. I had lathes under a tarp for just over a month and some other things like a mill for 2, but I poured a lot of oil over them. Like oil was dripping from them and table was slick with oil. Event then handles started to rust or some areas where water got somehow to and washed oil off.


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## Susquatch (Jan 10, 2022)

Fluid Film is good on farm equipment for at least a half year without a tarp, and there is a black paint type rust protector that you can buy for farm equipment that will last around one year - although not necessarily easy to remove but a lot easier than rust


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## Tom Kitta (Jan 10, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Fluid Film is good on farm equipment for at least a half year without a tarp, and there is a black paint type rust protector that you can buy for farm equipment that will last around one year - although not necessarily easy to remove but a lot easier than rust



Yes, some people would just paint their whole equipment if in extended storage, for a lathe they would paint the ways etc. Then use paint stripper to clean it up... I do think it is a bit extreme.

The more permanent and better rust protector the more work removing such protector.


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## YYCHM (Jan 10, 2022)

Cosmoline....  I wonder where you get that stuff from?


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## DPittman (Jan 10, 2022)

Tom Kitta said:


> Yes, some people would just paint their whole equipment if in extended storage, for a lathe they would paint the ways etc. Then use paint stripper to clean it up... I do think it is a bit extreme.
> 
> The more permanent and better rust protector the more work removing such protector.


Yes but I would be afraid water would run in areas that paint could not.  At least regular oil dousings would make a fellow check on it once in a while and see how it's keeping.

I know an old widow lady that put her husbands' lathe in a leaky old shed almost 20 years ago and I can't imagine it its worth much more than scrap now.  I guess she was unsure what it was worth back then or how to sell it. I could tell her what's it worth and how to get rid of it now!  Maybe she plans on  taking it with her to give it back to her husband?

Lots of instances of people hanging onto something that had value but were afraid of not getting the top dollar and now the stuff is rusted and rotted away.


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## Dabbler (Jan 10, 2022)

Cosmoline was available on amazon.com , at least until last year.


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## Susquatch (Jan 10, 2022)

Tom Kitta said:


> Yes, some people would just paint their whole equipment if in extended storage, for a lathe they would paint the ways etc. Then use paint stripper to clean it up... I do think it is a bit extreme.
> 
> The more permanent and better rust protector the more work removing such protector.



Agreed.

I wasn't advocating. Just saying it's an option. I don't paint.

I do use fluid Film. It works way better than oil.



DPittman said:


> Yes but I would be afraid water would run in areas that paint could not. At least regular oil dousings would make a fellow check on it once in a while and see how it's keeping.



Too much farm equipment has to be stored outside. It's just the way it is. Water has a way of reaching where oil doesn't go either.

My practice is to use old engine oil first, let it sit a week or so, then spray or brush on Fluid Film. It's not perfect, but when you have no other choice you do what you can and accept the consequences.



DPittman said:


> Lots of instances of people hanging onto something that had value but were afraid of not getting the top dollar and now the stuff is rusted and rotted away.



Sad really. Just plain sad. But I see it all the time too. It's one thing when it's a farm impliment. But it's a whole nuther level when it's a precision machine.


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## PeterT (Jan 10, 2022)

I want the stuff they use for oceanic transport of brand new vehicles LOL


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## RobinHood (Jan 10, 2022)

Somebody should have closed the windows….


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## Brent H (Jan 11, 2022)

@PeterT :  I can help you with that - just need _your_ car for our transit across Superior


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## Susquatch (Jan 11, 2022)

Those photos are hilarious!

Actually, there is a sticky plastic film that is used in transport @PeterT . But it is mostly a protectant for scratches not for corrosion protection. Automobiles are designed with very high levels of corrosion protection built right in. They can easily handle a transoceanic voyage or three.

Again, I'm not advocating it but that shrink wrap they use on pleasure boats for the winter might be a consideration when there are no other options and when used with other products. And thinkinf about this reminds me of the potential to use a VCI protectant like that found in parts containers where corrosion has been a problem. The VCI is soaked into cardboard and even paper and put in the box with the parts. The VCI slowly volatalizes and finds its way into the microscopic cracks in the grain structure of the metal to prevent corrosion from starting. It's very effective. I'm still looking for a bulk supply of the liquid.

And that reminds me that WD40 is selling a new (to me anyway) product called Corrosion Inhibitor. The label says it contains a VCI and is good for 1 to 2 years indoors. I bought a can of it to try but have not done so yet. Not sure what they claim outdoors. 





__





						Corrosion Inhibitors for Metal | WD-40 Corrosion Inhibitor | WD-40
					

The WD-40 Specialist Long-Term Corrosion Inhibitor protect metal parts from rust and corrosion for up to one year or two years indoors. Employ preventative maintenance with corrosion inhibitors for steel, metal, tools, engines and other parts.




					www.wd40.com


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## Susquatch (Jan 11, 2022)

Speaking of ice & snow problems......


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## LRSbm146 (Jan 12, 2022)

I see this is an older thread.... those basement moves are terrible. We moved these 2 machines out of a Calgary basement around the Same time, January 2020


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## Dabbler (Jan 12, 2022)

@LRSbm146 they both look like very nice machines!  How much did you disassemble them?


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## PeterT (Jan 12, 2022)

Let me rotate the mill upright so the oil stays in. There we go. Nice machine! They make a lovely couple.


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## PeterT (Jan 12, 2022)

Is the mill single phase 220v? What year is it?


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## YYCHM (Jan 12, 2022)

LRSbm146 said:


> I see this is an older thread.... those basement moves are terrible. We moved these 2 machines out of a Calgary basement around the Same time, January 2020



How about a write up on how you accomplished the move?  Pics would be nice


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## LRSbm146 (Jan 12, 2022)

@Dabbler I bought the lathe and it was getting moved to Leduc. The mill went to a friends house in Calgary. I was having trouble getting help lined up from Edmonton so hired movers off Kijiji. I showed up early and drained the oil, pulled the tailstock, carriage, chuck and had it off the stand and on the floor. The previous owner strongly recommended not going any further. Movers came, we stood it on end on a heavy duty dolly and out it went. Couple of tense moments on the stairs when the dolly gave out otherwise pretty smooth. The movers agreed to $600 delivered, I gave them $700 and a case of beer. They refused to have anything to do with the milling machine. Hahaha 
The mill was moved in small as possible pcs over a couple weeks, 2 guys and a new dolly until it was just the base. New movers were hired, I think 6 guys showed up. It was not good. Pretty sure the stairs and back landing of the house need major repairs and the back door frame was damaged pretty bad.


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## LRSbm146 (Jan 12, 2022)

@PeterT both machines were bought new in 1984, delivered and set up by the vendor. Never moved since. 
The mill is definitely 3phase and I believe 220v


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## Dabbler (Jan 12, 2022)

LRSbm146 said:


> I think 6 guys showed up. It was not good.



Fortunately our move went a little more smoothly....

We protected the stairs by making a track using 2 - 2X8s on their side, and everything was strapped down to a custom dolly.  We used the hotshot winch on a car hauler that I hired for 600$ to do the lifting.  No one was in the fall line as things went up.  Well the previous owner kept walking into it and needed shooing away.

The bull noses on the stairs got a few nicks, and we put a tiny ding in the drywall that took 5 minutes to fix. 

The lathe bed was too dangerous to lift that way, as it was too long to negotiate the turn at the top of the stairs.  I make a custom crane cradle between the floor joists and moved it out the window with that.  It weighed 975 lbs, about the same weight as the milling machine base.


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## Dabbler (Jan 12, 2022)

I had to buy and/or make 7 or 8 dollies, a dozen or more heavy winch straps, lumber for the cradle,  and the metal makings of the joist crane,  a new main beam for my gantry crane, a 1 ton scale, tarps, some tools, cribbing, plywood to protect the landing, and the wood to make a deck outside his back door to recieve all the machine tools.  We did 16 lifts that day, and moved the lathe bed later.

FWIW  we called Prime movers, and they wouldn't move a bridegport type mill out of the basement.  It was too dangerous for their crew.  tHEY wanted just under 10K$ to move the lathe out of the basement.  _That_ was the incentive for doing it 'homebrew'.


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## LRSbm146 (Jan 12, 2022)

@Dabbler the movers for the lathe were really good, the guys for the mill were pretty sketchy and didn’t want help. 
Sean, the old timer that We bought the machines from was really good about everything. He sat, drank his tea and didn’t say much. 
The house everything was in was being sold as well and the new owner  was there, he informed us the house was getting a full reno. So all was good in the end.


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## Degen (Jan 13, 2022)

Here is something you wish you had, I've used one in the early 90's. Makes you look like superman.  They work extemely well just don't mix up the sequence of operation or you loss the load.





__





						Stair Climbing Hand Truck | PowerMate Stair Climber
					

The PowerMate stair climber hand truck is the world's finest two wheel dolly with stair climbing capability. Interior vehicle Lift Gates and Lift tables




					www.powermate.info


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## Dabbler (Jan 13, 2022)

We tried to rent one - but the only one taht we could get wouldn't make the turn at the top of the stairs (and it would have cost double what we paid for the truck/winch)


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## Susquatch (Jan 13, 2022)

Dabbler said:


> We tried to rent one - but the only one taht we could get wouldn't make the turn at the top of the stairs (and it would have cost double what we paid for the truck/winch)



I think it's amazing that the stairs didn't collapse. Most of those stairway stringers end up being a 2x4 by the time the steps are cut into them. I've even seen pre-cut stringers made from 2x4s with step risers tacked to them. Two 2x4s don't carry a lot of weight. 

I MUCH prefer @Dabbler s approach to custom carriers that spread the weight out. 

Still a risky operation no matter what you do.


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## Darren (Jan 13, 2022)

If I was faced with moving a basement full of heavy machines, I would have considered excavating and opening up a basement wall, and booming the equipment out.  I know its not practical in every case, but putting a basement wall back together and backfilling a hole is quick and easy compared to tearing down multiple precision machines with hundreds of parts.  Just offering a different approach.


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## Susquatch (Jan 13, 2022)

dfloen said:


> If I was faced with moving a basement full of heavy machines, I would have considered excavating and opening up a basement wall, and booming the equipment out.  I know its not practical in every case, but putting a basement wall back together and backfilling a hole is quick and easy compared to tearing down multiple precision machines with hundreds of parts.  Just offering a different approach.



I agree totally. It was my first thought actually. But unfortunately, very few sellers would allow that. 

If I had to put my own shop in the basement, I would put in an enclosed oversized grade entrance with a removeable wall. It would be relatively low cost compared to the flexibility it would give me in the years to come for upgrades, additions, and sales.


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## Degen (Jan 13, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> I think it's amazing that the stairs didn't collapse. Most of those stairway stringers end up being a 2x4 by the time the steps are cut into them. I've even seen pre-cut stringers made from 2x4s with step risers tacked to them. Two 2x4s don't carry a lot of weight.
> 
> I MUCH prefer @Dabbler s approach to custom carriers that spread the weight out.
> 
> Still a risky operation no matter what you do.


Sometimes not knowing makes them stronger.


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## Susquatch (Jan 13, 2022)

Degen said:


> Sometimes not knowing makes them stronger.



Ain't that the truth! 

I love sayings. Here is one that applies:  Many an impossible thing has been done by someone who didn't know it. 

Besides, lumber specifications are very conservative because there is HUGE piece to piece variations.


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## Degen (Jan 13, 2022)

The best lumber I've seen in a long time was about 4 months ago, haven't seen anyrhing that good in years, now its back to same old garbage we've been getting (doing reno on house).


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## Dabbler (Jan 13, 2022)

dfloen said:


> I would have considered excavating


You guys are on to something - Prime Movers wanted to do just that.  They said if we had made the hole, and took out the wall 5 feet wide, the'd take all the machinery out of the basement for 15K$... A Bargain!

These stairs were 2X10 stringers, doubled on both sides, with a 2X6 under support half the way up the stairs.  I know this because before we slid the lathe and mill down them (on plywood)  I reinforced the stairs myself.  We just left the reinforcements in forever.


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## LRSbm146 (Jan 13, 2022)

I’m blown away by the quotes to move this stuff.... might be in the wrong business. Hahaha


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## Darren (Jan 13, 2022)

Dabbler said:


> You guys are on to something - Prime Movers wanted to do just that.  They said if we had made the hole, and took out the wall 5 feet wide, the'd take all the machinery out of the basement for 15K$... A Bargain!


I think you did it the right way, just offering an alternative.

I own a Cat mini excavator so i'm already biased towards this, but one can be rented for 300 a day or so. A 8x12 or 10x10 or whatever hole, 4-6 feet deep can be dug in about 2 hours with a small machine. Gotta be mindful that the dirt has to go somewhere till backfill time.  Shoring up the joists and cutting a 4-6 foot wide hole in the foundation is a few hours for a couple guys and a demo saw. So a day for that, a day or maybe two for the boom truck, but if youre paying 250 an hour you'll have everything ready to get everything out in an hour or three, and a day or two to fix up the mess after. Easy as pie.


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## Susquatch (Jan 14, 2022)

Dabbler said:


> You guys are on to something - Prime Movers wanted to do just that.  They said if we had made the hole, and took out the wall 5 feet wide, the'd take all the machinery out of the basement for 15K$... A Bargain!
> 
> These stairs were 2X10 stringers, doubled on both sides, with a 2X6 under support half the way up the stairs.  I know this because before we slid the lathe and mill down them (on plywood)  I reinforced the stairs myself.  We just left the reinforcements in forever.



Oh, I'm not saying I would have dug the hole..... I would have done what you did. Glad to hear you reinforced the stairs. I think most people assume the stairs are stronger than they are. 

But if it was *MY* house, I'd dig the hole. And in fact that's what I did at my previous home. I added on a garage with room for a small shop and put in a grade entrance to the basement at the same time. One the best things I ever did.


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## Susquatch (Jan 14, 2022)

I'm just remembering another trick we pulled off years ago when I was helping a friend move a huge steel safe into his basement. We put concrete blocks under each step of the stairway with a few shims to take up the clearance. It was really easy to do and rock solid.


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## Susquatch (Jan 14, 2022)

Holy Crap @Dabbler !  I just read the entire thread. My apologies for what must have appeared to be trivializing the issues. This was one massive move and I'm VERY impressed!

Please forgive me for my stupid comments about digging holes and reinforcing the stairway. I had NO IDEA what was all covered in this post. Simply amazing. 

I particularly loved the photo of your friend Bert working on his last job. It brought warm tears to my old eyes. The circle of life..... 

I trust everything is now all moved. And I assume that you are taking your time now putting everything all back together. Some very cool machinery there. 

Kudos to you and to everyone who helped you. 

Stay warm my friend.


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## Dabbler (Jan 14, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Bert working on his last job.


I had been his friend at that moment for 41 years 2 months, and it was 'happysad' to watch him do that last work.



Susquatch said:


> I trust everything is now all moved.


It is all in my tiny garage, and almost no room to walk.  In order to actually rebuild the mill with (literally) no room, I am installing a bridge crane to lift the joint and ram onto the mill to make 5 or 6 precious square feet of room (!!)



Susquatch said:


> Kudos to you and to everyone who helped you.


Everyone was so generous with their time, and I'll always be grateful for the help they all gave.  I am in debt to everyone who helped.


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