# Who here has bought KBC branded tooling?



## YYCHM (Aug 23, 2020)

In particular I'm wondering if KBC branded drill bits and adjustable reamers are worth looking at.

Thanks,

Craig


----------



## francist (Aug 23, 2020)

I haven’t used those specific tools but I do buy their end mills, taps, and regular reamers. I’m happy enough with them. A lot of their in-house branded stuff is or was TMX out of Poland. Lately I see some of their products have a “KBC” or “KBC USA” choice as well. Not all of them, but I have run across some. I use KBC almost exclusively.

-frank


----------



## Dusty (Aug 23, 2020)

Hi Craig, for what it's worth I use KBC brand chucking reamers all being below 3/4" dia. Like -frank mentions they appear to come out of Poland, more than satisfied with same. Was looking at KBC's latest flyer and their adjustable reamer set. Interesting reduction from $201.81 to just $121.09 in their pricing! Wonder where they are manufactured?  Bill


----------



## Brent H (Aug 23, 2020)

@YYCHobbyMachinist : I have a bunch of the KBC stuff - off the top of my head  - I bought the stubby drills and just use them for the mill and they cut very well and accurate.  I have a few reamers and a few taps....a few other items but not home to take some pics for you....alas


----------



## YYCHM (Aug 23, 2020)

Brent H said:


> @YYCHobbyMachinist : I have a bunch of the KBC stuff - off the top of my head  - I bought the stubby drills and just use them for the mill and they cut very well and accurate.  I have a few reamers and a few taps....a few other items but not home to take some pics for you....alas



That's what I needed to know thanks!  Looking at getting some stubby drill bits to use on the mill and lathe.  Any experience with adjustable reamers in general?

Craig


----------



## francist (Aug 23, 2020)

My one experience with a Groz was not pleasant and I have shied away from them ever since. Could easily have been me at fault though — I know people who are not fools that use them so they must work.

-frank


----------



## PeterT (Aug 23, 2020)

The KBC stub length drills I bought were quite good. Made in Europe. Mine happened to be black oxide. The supplied case was not great I ended up getting a Huot when it came on sale. I'm pretty sure the drills are 135-deg point if that's an issue for you. I would have preferred to match my 120-deg center spot drills but you don't see that as often & 135-deg center drills are even harder to find. I bought a regular set of HSS KBC 118-deg drills a while back on sale with the expressed purpose to dub them for use on brass/bronze etc. They seemed pretty decent too. Not as good as Precision Twist or USA brands, but quite a bit less cost.

Don't have any adjustable reamers. What I do on question mark stuff is just call KBC, they have a way of looking up country of origin. If they are Chinese, well, then at least you know that going into it the deal. Might be ok or maybe not. Travers & other vendors do the same thing with their house brand, it can mean darn near anything depending on the tool.

Anything TMX/Poland is usually very decent quality IMO. I'm seeing some new euro countries on labels now, Serbia for example. Not much actual purchasing history though.


----------



## YYCHM (Aug 23, 2020)

Well, I went to order a stubby drill bit set.  Website indicates 26 in stock yet when I went to checkout I got a warning that the order could not be fulfilled immediately as the item would be back ordered?  Guess I'll wait for a bit before ordering.


----------



## Brent H (Aug 23, 2020)

I got the stub drills on @PeterT 's recommendation that they worked well - they do and thanks Peter for the heads up. 

 Adjustable reamers are great in certain applications for sneaking up on a bore size, however, they are adjustable and only as good as the operator.  We have a very expensive ones at work here and I would not say they are the "oh la la" of fit and finish, but they do work well.

The adjustable reamers will be sized from a max to a min diameter and they ramp up to the max diameter by loosening the backing nut and tightening the advance nut to push the reamer blades up a slope as it were.  Most reamers (sized ones) are good for 2 to 6 thou reaming (roughly)  I would put the adjustable ones at 1 to 3 thou and you run them by hand.  Most come with a tap handle square end.  Perhaps other have run them on a spinning machine?

The good thing about the adjustable ones is that they run fine in both metric and imperial ....hahahahaha


----------



## YYCHM (Aug 23, 2020)

francist said:


> My one experience with a Groz was not pleasant and I have shied away from them ever since. Could easily have been me at fault though — I know people who are not fools that use them so they must work.
> 
> -frank



The last Groz item I purchased, a grease gun, was a total fail.  I have some other Groz stuff that's not to bad though.


----------



## YYCHM (Aug 23, 2020)

Brent H said:


> I got the stub drills on @PeterT 's recommendation that they worked well - they do and thanks Peter for the heads up.



Which set did you get?


----------



## Brent H (Aug 23, 2020)

I got the Item# 1-050-000

web site says 26 in stock


----------



## kevin.decelles (Aug 23, 2020)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> Well, I went to order a stubby drill bit set. Website indicates 26 in stock yet when I went to checkout I got a warning that the order could not be fulfilled immediately as the item would be back ordered? Guess I'll wait for a bit before ordering.



I usually order it regardless, they’ll ship it quickly. Sometimes it is a stocking issue between stores.

The kbc branded stuff is ok, better than busy bee imho, but not premium by any stretch


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## PeterT (Aug 23, 2020)

here is my old post if its the same PN

https://canadianhobbymetalworkers.com/threads/kbc-stub-length-drill-set.1736/


----------



## YYCHM (Aug 23, 2020)

Brent H said:


> I got the Item# 1-050-000
> 
> web site says 26 in stock



Yup.  That's what I attempted to order.  Guess I'll just go ahead and order a set regardless of the back order warning.


----------



## YYCHM (Aug 23, 2020)

PeterT said:


> here is my old post if its the same PN
> 
> https://canadianhobbymetalworkers.com/threads/kbc-stub-length-drill-set.1736/



Daaaa.  How did I miss this one.  I searched for KBC related threads.


----------



## Crankit (Aug 23, 2020)

First time I ordered from KBC I got some of their branded HSS lathe tooling and it was marked China so I presumed a lot of their stuff was Chinese so now i know much of it is Polish I will give their branded stuff another look


----------



## francist (Aug 23, 2020)

I think you’ll find there may be some variance. The majority of end mills I’ve got from them in their KBC brand are marked Korea; taps are frequently Bosnia / Herzegovina, and many of the reamers have been TMX from Poland. That said, they all perform well for me but if origin is a primary concern the safe bet would be to ask them first.


----------



## PeterT (Aug 23, 2020)

Crankit said:


> ... so now i know much of it is Polish I will give their branded stuff another look...



Frank beat me to it. I was just typing essentially the same...

Well, I'm not quite sure one could count on that. We were talking about specific drills here that happen to be from Europe, but I can think of lots of things under the KBC/house brand label that are typical Chinese you would find anywhere else. That's why I was suggesting if it was something where it mattered to you, maybe best to call them. With a lot of tooling they will specifically say the brand so I'm not entirely clear on why the house brand for certain items (but all the retailers do the same thing).


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 23, 2020)

The only bad KBC experience I’ve had was with a set of drill bits. Sharp but really brittle. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Crankit (Aug 23, 2020)

Great replies! It's good to see then that they do source manufacturers other than Chinese. I would like to add some larger reamers to my collection soon.


----------



## YYCHM (Aug 24, 2020)

Rats!  You can't add to an order after you have placed it.  Darn.


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 24, 2020)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> Rats!  You can't add to an order after you have placed it.  Darn.


Give them a call. I've done that before.


----------



## YYCHM (Aug 24, 2020)

Oh Oh.  KBC shipped my drill bits out of MI via FedEx International Ground.  Was supposed to be $11 flat rate shipping and I have been charged tax already.  I wonder if I'm going to get hit with an importation and brokerage fee?

So much for the back order warning at checkout eh.


----------



## Crankit (Aug 24, 2020)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> Oh Oh.  KBC shipped my drill bits out of MI via FedEx International Ground.  Was supposed to be $11 flat rate shipping and I have been charged tax already.  I wonder if I'm going to get hit with an importation and brokerage fee?
> 
> So much for the back order warning at checkout eh.



You ordered from KBC.ca?  They may have drop shipped from MI...if so? they are the importer not you


----------



## YYCHM (Aug 24, 2020)

Crankit said:


> You ordered from KBC.ca?  They may have drop shipped from MI...if so? they are the importer not you



Yup, KBC.ca.  My CC was charged the website amount in CDN including flat rate shipping and tax.


----------



## Brian Ross (Aug 24, 2020)

I think the country of origin for Groz tools is India. They are generally low quality.


----------



## PeterT (Aug 24, 2020)

Anything you ordered through the dot CA website, no worries. Items may originate from all over the place based on inventory - Delta BC, eastern Canada, KBC USA...  Thats for them to sort out, not you. In fact its normal to have partial orders arrive at different times just for this reason because they do their best to get as much as they can as quick as they can. The flat fee still applies & there is no duty implications. Its a Canadian order as far as you are concerned. KBC used to ship UPS but I think they are migrating over to Fedex. The odd time some small package will show up Canada Post but I wasn't sure if that was COVID related or what can happen the odd time - you order 10 items, they ship 8 and are now out, so 2 remaining come dribbling in a short while later.  

Get in the habit of looking at your packing slip when you get an order. They will show whats included, anything unexpectedly back ordered etc. I find them pretty good to deal with overall.

Return items requires a phone call beforehand. They ask you a series of questions. Obviously is it broken or defective they make it right. But I'm pretty sure you have to return (to Delta) at your expense.


----------



## RobinHood (Aug 24, 2020)

I don’t think it even possible to order from KBC.com here in Canada. The system knows where you are (at least I can’t with my devices). When I am in the States (before this virus), I could compare prices because I could get both KBC.ca and KBC.com. Whichever had the best price all in, I would order from.


----------



## PeterT (Aug 24, 2020)

Vendors know a lot about you just by attempting to place an order - CDN IP address, CDN credit card, probably rustle through your PC cookies & Contacts for good measure LOL. Some sites will allow you to proceed on the order if delivery is to USA address because you are dealing with customs & Nafta forms, not them. I believe Travers is similar but for a while at least, they weren't checking as rigorously & people had some unwelcome surprises. They recommend ordering through the cdn website & that also takes care of CDN prices. You are right though, there are price discrepancies. Whether that's tariff related or inventory or other issues who knows. I just ordered something off amazon dot com that was cheaper than identical item via dot ca shipping delivered to my door all fees in. But amazon is an odd duck with resellers & fulfillment.


----------



## YYCHM (Aug 24, 2020)

Brian Ross said:


> I think the country of origin for Groz tools is India. They are generally low quality.



Not sure about Groz but Soba is.  The Soba RT I had was pretty sad.


----------



## Chicken lights (Aug 25, 2020)

PeterT said:


> Anything you ordered through the dot CA website, no worries. Items may originate from all over the place based on inventory - Delta BC, eastern Canada, KBC USA...  Thats for them to sort out, not you. In fact its normal to have partial orders arrive at different times just for this reason because they do their best to get as much as they can as quick as they can. The flat fee still applies & there is no duty implications. Its a Canadian order as far as you are concerned. KBC used to ship UPS but I think they are migrating over to Fedex. The odd time some small package will show up Canada Post but I wasn't sure if that was COVID related or what can happen the odd time - you order 10 items, they ship 8 and are now out, so 2 remaining come dribbling in a short while later.
> 
> Get in the habit of looking at your packing slip when you get an order. They will show whats included, anything unexpectedly back ordered etc. I find them pretty good to deal with overall.
> 
> Return items requires a phone call beforehand. They ask you a series of questions. Obviously is it broken or defective they make it right. But I'm pretty sure you have to return (to Delta) at your expense.


I ordered a few things from Snap On.ca and found out Purolator doesn’t deliver to a PO box
Then, like you’re mentioning, one piece didn’t ship with the main shipment. They said it was being held at the Calgary warehouse. So, since I was going through Calgary I just stopped in to pick it up 

But I wish there was a way to have things shipped to a PO box, it’s annoying that they can’t


----------



## CalgaryPT (Aug 25, 2020)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> In particular I'm wondering if KBC branded drill bits and adjustable reamers are worth looking at.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Craig


I've bought a few tools, bits and reamers. The bits were just rebranded stuff and OK. But I did buy a larger reamer set that arrived damaged. They took the return happily, and then I found the same set on Amazon cheaper.


----------



## DPittman (Aug 25, 2020)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> Oh Oh.  KBC shipped my drill bits out of MI via FedEx International Ground.  Was supposed to be $11 flat rate shipping and I have been charged tax already.  I wonder if I'm going to get hit with an importation and brokerage fee?
> 
> So much for the back order warning at checkout eh.


----------



## YYCHM (Aug 25, 2020)

CalgaryPT said:


> I've bought a few tools, bits and reamers. The bits were just rebranded stuff and OK. But I did buy a larger reamer set that arrived damaged. They took the return happily, and then I found the same set on Amazon cheaper.



Inch or metric reamers?  All's I'm seeing on Amazon.ca are metric reamers.


----------



## PeterT (Aug 25, 2020)

I find KBC is not the best place to buy obvious Asian clone stuff. Its usually the same or very similar items you can find elsewhere at lower cost. Same goes for Travers, usually even moreso. But, sourcing from AliExpress or whatever takes more shipping time & the uncertainty factor is higher. But if you are after a specific tooling brand or size, they are pretty good at getting it to you. I've also found KBC to always be more expensive on Mitutoyo stuff compared to Thomas Skinner. Even when a sale comes on (because typically Mitutoyo extends the sale to all retailers). So just get in the habit of plugging in the PN into various sites to see who has what for how much & factor the all in shipping of course.


----------



## CalgaryPT (Aug 25, 2020)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> Inch or metric reamers?  All's I'm seeing on Amazon.ca are metric reamers.


Mine were chucking reamers: https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00HQMXL38/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## DPittman (Aug 25, 2020)

CalgaryPT said:


> Mine were chucking reamers: https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00HQMXL38/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


I've got the same set as those but from another retailer and have been happy with mine.


----------

