# Milling vice



## Tomc938 (May 17, 2021)

I am looking to add a milling vice To my new milling machine.

I was looking at the Craftex 4 inch milling vase on sale for 135 or the 5 inch for 145.

If I went with the 5 inch I would take it off the rotating base and bolted directly to the table.

Just wondering if anyone has any experience with either of these devices. They’re currently offering free shipping, which is a nice bonus!

As far as level of accuracy I am looking for 0.002 over 5”.

Oh wait, I see that I put the decimal in the wrong place.  As a newbi I am looking for 0.2 over 5”. Shoot, if I’m honest, I’m hoping to get all the features on the piece they belong on.


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## Dabbler (May 17, 2021)

With the inexpensive vises, get the biggest you can afford - the littler ones flex, (perhaps a lot) and that leads to all kinds of work holding problems.  I just sold my BB 6", from the time when they were getinng them only from Taiwan.  Not a s good as Kurt, but works well.

After 40 years doing this i spurged on a 6" Kurt 633 clone Taiwanese, and a real Kurt DX6.  Thye are a joy to use.  If you can afford it, buy a European vise or a Kurt.  you won't regret it (but once, at purchase).


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## David_R8 (May 17, 2021)

I went with a 4" Glacern for my RF30 clone. It's the perfect size for me. Not too much overhang off the front of the table and excellent quality.


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## YYCHM (May 17, 2021)

Dabbler said:


> With the inexpensive vises, get the biggest you can afford - the littler ones flex, (perhaps a lot) and that leads to all kinds of work holding problems.  I just sold my BB 6", from the time when they were getinng them only from Taiwan.  Not a s good as Kurt, but works well.
> 
> After 40 years doing this i spurged on a 6" Kurt 633 clone Taiwanese, and a real Kurt DX6.  Thye are a joy to use.  If you can afford it, buy a European vise or a Kurt.  you won't regret it (but once, at purchase).



And that would be this one...






Probably a little over kill for my RF30 and the swivel base was a no-go.

@David_R8 are you sure you went 4" and not 5"?


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## Tomc938 (May 17, 2021)

Would you suggest 

https://vevor.ca/products/4-super-l...nodular-cast-iron?_pos=3&_sid=326324821&_ss=r

or

https://vevor.ca/products/6-accu-lo...MImP25_-7R8AIVSR6tBh0zFAE1EAQYAiABEgIf1PD_BwE

The pricing isn't as bad as I was expecting, and for the extra $50.00...  might be well spent up front.  Just want to make sure I don't go too big.  And Canadian supplier a plus.


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## Tomc938 (May 17, 2021)

I would just like to thank everyone again for the information!  It is awesome to have such a great group of people to help navigate the tooling up process so I don't make (hopefully) too many expensive mistaken purchases.

I REALLY appreciate the help!


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## David_R8 (May 17, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> And that would be this one...
> 
> View attachment 14799
> 
> ...



Yup, pretty sure.


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## YYCHM (May 17, 2021)

When the time is right and the price is right jump on it


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## YYCHM (May 17, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> Yup, pretty sure.



Ooooowwww... I like your vise stop. Where did that come from?


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## David_R8 (May 17, 2021)

I just want to offer perspective here on inexpensive vises. 
I was very tempted to got with a sub-$200 vise. I did a bunch of research and found they can be really hit and miss on quality. 
This Old Tony did a video recently where here examined an inexpensive angle lock vise and it was much less than accurate. 
My Glacern was some dollars to be sure but the jaws are dead on parallel, the bottom is parallel to the top and there’s imperceptible jaw lift. 
I know that I’m not making rocket parts but I do want something that doesn’t add inaccuracies. I’ve got that part well in hand.


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## Tomc938 (May 17, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> View attachment 14800
> 
> When the time is right and the price is right jump on it


My purchase came with a 10" Grizzly!


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## David_R8 (May 17, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> Ooooowwww... I like your vice stop. Where did that come from?



That from Edge Technologies. 
Got it for $5 with a bunch of used tooling.


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## Tomc938 (May 17, 2021)

Interesting. I did a search for the brand of your voice and that's where it pointed me. Guess you really do have to read the fine print.

I could see exchange, shipping and duty could certainly make this
 a lot more expensive.

The search goes on.


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## David_R8 (May 17, 2021)

Tomc938 said:


> Interesting. I did a search for the brand of your voice and that's where it pointed me. Guess you really do have to read the fine print.
> 
> I could see exchange, shipping and duty could certainly make there's a lot more expensive.
> 
> The search goes on.



All in it was 400 USD.


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## Dabbler (May 17, 2021)

My 6" X 8" opening clone vise made in Taiwan was 500$ - Janger bought one as well.  We have both found it to be a superb vise, if a little big.  My problem with my little 8X32 mill was that my 6" X 5 3/4 opening was always a little too small for the work I do.

I went with a much larger opening size.  with externally mounted jaws, I can hold over 14" wide.  That is now big enough...


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## YYCHM (May 17, 2021)

Tomc938 said:


> My purchase came with a 10" Grizzly!



Ya, mine was a 8" that morphed into a 10" when I went to view it LOL....

https://canadianhobbymetalworkers.com/threads/rotary-table-for-milling-machine.2422/

So.... you got a 10" RT with that PDM deal?


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## RobinHood (May 17, 2021)

Don’t buy a “cheap” vise for a milling machine. Get the best you can afford. A quality 4” is way better than a cheap 5”.
You will never regret a quality vise as you will have peace of mind in that you can trust it.

Other brands to keep an eye out for are GS (SOWA house brand), Gerardi, Almatic, HOMGE, etc, & plus the ones that have already been mentioned.

You will be able to make good parts with quality tools on your mill. If/when you grow out of that machine, you can keep the tooling and just get a better mill - should that ever even become a topic...


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## Dusty (May 17, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> Yup, pretty sure.



David I assume you're satisfied with your 4" Glacern vise? My 4" GMT is an over kill for my mill but just love it.


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## David_R8 (May 17, 2021)

Dusty said:


> David I assume you're satisfied with your 4" Glacern vise? My 4" GMT is an over kill for my mill but just love it.View attachment 14803


Yup, it's an awesome piece of tooling.


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## YYCHM (May 17, 2021)

@Dusty You have to post a pic of that machine with some chips on it LOL  It's just too clean for the rest of us to get our heads around....


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## Dusty (May 17, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> @Dusty You have to a pic of that machine with some chips on it LOL  It's too clean for the rest of us....



Hi Craig actually I don't, just gave my mill a good cleaning and wipe down with way oil after finishing a project that's been on my mind for years even. Shall take some photos and post them to the forum, I'm sure you'll like the project. Your post on fishing tackle prompted me to check my hoard in our storage room, thankfully all is well with that. Thank you!


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## Dabbler (May 17, 2021)

I'll check out the price for the 4 or 5" version of the Kurt clone that Janger and I have and get back to you.


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## Dabbler (May 18, 2021)

So the prices have gone exorbitant, so this avenue is not really desirable.


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## Tomc938 (May 18, 2021)

Thanks for checking.

So I can get a 6" GS for $469 USD all in from Ajax Industries, or the 4" Glacern for $472 all in from Glacern Machine Tools.  SOWA tools is $650 USD for the 6" GS, but I don't know what the shipping would be.  Quite the price difference from US to CA suppliers on the same vise!

My concern is with it coming out of US, if it comes by one of the couriers, they change an additional up to $100 for processing and duty.  Will have to make sure that's not the case.


Any Canadian suppliers you can suggest for something decent in this price range?

Is a 6" overkill for an RF30 clone?


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## YYCHM (May 18, 2021)

Tomc938 said:


> Thanks for checking.
> 
> So I can get a 6" GS for $469 USD all in from Ajax Industries, or the 4" Glacern for $472 all in from Glacern Machine Tools.  SOWA tools is $650 USD for the 6" GS, but I don't know what the shipping would be.  Quite the price difference from US to CA suppliers on the same vise!
> 
> ...



Have a look here https://www.kbctools.ca/products/pg/1?Keyword=milling%20machine%20vise&v=j&facet=%5B%5B%22catname%22%2C%22catname%22%2C%22Milling%20Machine%20Vises%22%5D%5D  Lots of choices.

Ya, I think a 6" on a RF30 is a little too big.


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## David_R8 (May 18, 2021)

I would not want a 6" vise on my mill. There's too much overhang off the front of the table for my liking.
If you push it forward on the table it to reduce the overhang then it uses up Y-axis travel.
Accusize has good tooling in my experience
https://accusizetools.com/collectio...-milling-machine-vises?variant=35246390476954
KBC also does for a bit more of a premium.
https://www.kbctools.ca/CatSearch/352/milling-machine-vises


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## Tom Kitta (May 18, 2021)

No 6" is not overkill for RF30 - I have old RF30 I am converting to CNC and I will use 6". The table on mine is only 0.5" narrower then on a large BP clone. Thus 6" is perfect size for it. I could also install large double station CNC vise on it. 

New toolmex with all duties and taxes and shipping is just touch under 600 USD - https://www.ebay.com/itm/313343030824?epid=24031744770&hash=item48f4b33628:g:2AQAAMXQUY1Q-olj&LH_ItemCondition=3

Above is at least 200+ cheaper then same vise at KBC.

Accusize vise (their non CNC vise) is same as the one you get at Busy Bee etc. 

You can usually pick up quality vise on auction in Calgary for around 300 CAD used.


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## Tomc938 (May 18, 2021)

The Accusize has a 4" at a reasonable middle ground and free Prime shipping. (model FA20-4204)

Decent vices?


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## Tomc938 (May 18, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> I would not want a 6" vise on my mill. There's too much overhang off the front of the table for my liking.
> If you push it forward on the table it to reduce the overhang then it uses up Y-axis travel.
> Accusize has good tooling in my experience
> https://accusizetools.com/collectio...-milling-machine-vises?variant=35246390476954
> ...


Thanks for the comment.  $300 seems like a decent price and probably middle of the road quality, which is what I am looking for. 

As they say, not building parts for the space program.  So far not building anything...  ;o)


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## David_R8 (May 18, 2021)

And if it's awful, send it back. Accusize are good to deal with. Busy Bee is horrible.


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## Tomc938 (May 18, 2021)

Done!

Thanks everyone for the input.  SO MANY possibilities, so little knowledge. (on my part)


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## YYCHM (May 18, 2021)

What size is the tilting vise that came with your mill?


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## Tomc938 (May 18, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> Ya, mine was a 8" that morphed into a 10" when I went to view it LOL....
> 
> https://canadianhobbymetalworkers.com/threads/rotary-table-for-milling-machine.2422/
> 
> So.... you got a 10" RT with that PDM deal?


Yep!


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## Tomc938 (May 18, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> What size is the tilting vise that came with your mill?


3.5" tilting


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## Tom Kitta (May 18, 2021)

Here are reviews of the 6" accusize version on amazon - seem to be very similar to your average Chinese vise - https://www.amazon.ca/Accusize-Prec...se+4"&qid=1621384325&sr=8-246#customerReviews

In the worst case these things make excellent drill press vise & sometimes they can be sold off to someone needing a drill press vise - I sold my 4" for 100 some time ago.


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## johnnielsen (May 18, 2021)

No one mentioned a 2 piece vise clamped to the mill table. If you want low profile and maximum gripping capacity, that is the way to go. Also, it is not that difficult to make your own by creating one fixed jaw and a second 2 piece jaw using slightly angled jack screws to provide the clamping action by pushing on the second plate.


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## Tom Kitta (May 18, 2021)

I never yet used a vise like that. Judging by the RF30 I have there is little need for low profile vise on it - there is LOTs of room in the Z axis. I did not measure it but I recon there is more Z on RF-30 then on a smaller BP clone. 

The cheap price point of RF30 is due to the round column and belt drive. The RF45 has a square column & gear head speed control and is far more rare to be found. I am guessing RF45 is same table and main casting, different column and head. Interesting is that they both weight about the same. Price is a whopping 2x. 

Of interest is the fact that you can run RF30 (but not RF45 due to gearhead) at a whopping 5000 rpm - same as a regular drill press. 

I can see why some people are OK with RF30 vs. small BP.


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## John Conroy (May 18, 2021)

I've heard good things about the "ultra high precision" vises from Precision Matthews.

https://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/5-inch-homge-ultra-high-precision-milling-vise-wswivel-base/

https://www.precisionmatthews.com/s...tra-high-precision-milling-vise-wswivel-base/


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## PeterT (May 18, 2021)

Tomc938 said:


> So I can get a 6" GS for $469 USD all in from Ajax Industries, or the 4" Glacern for $472 all in from Glacern Machine Tools.  SOWA tools is $650 USD for the 6" GS, but I don't know what the shipping would be.



Sowa is kind of a middle distributer but you can get any of their offerings through CDN tool suppliers. Thomas Skinner & DMH in Calgary. I like their low profile precision vise, its like the (no longer made) Bison. But its spendy.
https://www.sowatool.com/
Vertex makes a similar one but equally spendy. Glacern is Taiwan I believe, seems like everybody likes them. It wouldn't surprise me if the PM John mentioned is same/similar supplier. The PM keyless drill chuck I bought was exact same as one I got from Glacern previously. Another consideration is replacement or different configuration of jaws. such as horizontal/vertical Vee or step.  Kurt is hands down standard for popularity but other manufacturers match their bolt pattern. If the vise has a dedicated pattern, consider getting an extra set tossed in for the incremental weight & cost. I wish I did that on my Bison, now they are unobtanium.

Ajax is a good seller I bought by Bison lathe chuck through them at lower cost landed than any CDN dealer. I've used DYK shipping service on several items because its a USA address & then they truck to their CDN location for you to pick up. Some items it pays to go that way, other times not. Just depends on weight & options. Vises are heavy. Just avoid UPS/Fedex if you can because of dinger fees. Lots of info on this forum just do a keyword search.


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## Dabbler (May 19, 2021)

The SOWA STM 4" vise is the same price as the Kurt 4" vise -- 800 dollars.


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## Mcgyver (May 19, 2021)

I never saw Sowa as a manufacuturer; they were distributor who started rebranding made in China tools and charging more.   Initially the house brand of a Kitchener tool/industrial supply place irrc.  No issue with buying low cost offshore if that's what people want, but it always seemed quite the rub having to pay a premium for it.  As a distributor vs manufacturer that imo casts doubt on quality...I mean QA, design etc are not normally a core competency of a distributor .  I'm stunned that a Sowa would price themselves the same as a Kurt.

All this stuff seems to have rocketed up in price the last couple of years.  I found there are lot of little tool dealers who wouldn't stock things like the Kurt but will bring them in when ordered.  I bought a couple of Kurts 5 or 6 years ago and sent an RFQ around to a bunch of them.  I think I ended up getting them for about 55% of kbc's price at the time.

The markups on this stuff can be astounding.  Trick is to find the guy will take 10% instead of 50%+ margin.

Story illustrating markups.....  Years ago I need jaws for a Rohm chuck.  Called the number at rohm.com and got a quote for $190 (turns out I was calling the US and that was US$).  As they took my address down for the order they said we can't sell to you, you must call the CDN distributor, who is Sowa or whatever the parent company is in Ktchener.   Called them, price is $440.  I say "what!!!  I just got a quote for $190!"  without missing a beat he says "we'll match that"  and they did, irrc at 190 CDN.  They wouldn't sell direct but would through kbc.

Thats why this stuff costs so much.....they came off their list price of 440 to 190 and still had enough juice in it to cut KBC in.   Thats better margins that the pharmaceutical industry......heck maybe even better than the recreational pharmaceutical industry lol.  I think I'm in the wrong business


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## Dabbler (May 19, 2021)

I got my Kurt DX6 on a similar deal.  

I had just sold my 6" Busy Bee vise to Craig, and I wanted something very much like my Kurt clone to replace it.  I kept an eye on Kurt sales in Canada and the US for months, until I found a great deal in the US.  This distributor had Canadian outlets, so I called them and they said they would price match in Canadian dollars. However, the shipping was out of Vancouver for a whopping 250$.  So I assembled all the data and called Thomas Skinner, and the guy said after a slight hesitation that they would price match and they had stock in Calgary.  I got an order number and picked it up an hour later.


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## Tom Kitta (May 19, 2021)

Wow - great idea Dabbler - get them to match on price but NOT on shipping. 

Once you use a quality vise you never want to go back. 

Margins in general in a lot of areas are huge. How do you think these guys get rich?


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## kevin.decelles (May 19, 2021)

The worst is clothing. Ask anyone with family that works for forzani group (sportcheck cDN tire marks). You can buy for your family for cost plus say 10%.

Find a 150 pair of hiking boots, go to the til, 30 bucks

250 Columbia winter jacket, ..... 48 bucks

Brutal markup. I have a tough time buying clothes since I understood how much money there is added. 

And there was still profit in there.......


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Tom Kitta (May 19, 2021)

There are "last year mode" online retailers - especially in the US which sell for 1/3 of new price sports clothing. Note free shipping and obviously profit. So hiking boots for $50 are still loaded with profit.

What do you expect - that it really costs close to $100 today to make a pair of boots? Or a jacket? 

Also some items can be had cheap of aliexpress - my mother got a tent of aliexpress for I think 350 with shipping. It is a large tent - for car camping. She was the first one to order it. Quality is *amazing* it is way, way better then say MEC. Not to mention garbage from crappy tire. And it was like 1/2 the cost of MEC. 

Back to machining,

Sometimes I feel markup is not that much IF the tools have a huge popularity & there is ton of competition - like say carbide end mills - it feels everyone is making these & only few pp nowadays would consider totally over priced and under performing US made carbide stuff.


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