# Vertex Dividing Head Use



## Tecnico (Apr 19, 2022)

Hi

The mill I'm getting came with a Vertex dividing head (BS-1) and I'm wondering if it would be good practice to use it like a rotary table.  It doesn't have a chuck mounted but has provision for a threaded mount and I see plenty of photos with chucks mounted.

I guess my question comes down to whether I should be keeping my eye open for a rotary table or should the Vertex DH serve that purpose as well.  It just looks a little light compared to a rotary table.

Thanks,

D


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## 140mower (Apr 19, 2022)

Fasten your seatbelt my friend, the tooling up is about to begin. You might get away using as a light duty rotary table for a while, but, you'll want to keep your eyes open for a real rotary table and let the dividing head do what it does best, divide.


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## Tecnico (Apr 19, 2022)

LOL! I'm already eyeing a DRO and any other interesting things that fall into my lap or just have to be bought to accomplish something will follow!

6 point harness cinched up, it's going to be a fun ride!

D


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## Darren (Apr 19, 2022)

Here's my advice, buy what you need after you've needed it. You'll go broke in a hurry with this hobby otherwise.  There's also a few different ways of skinning cats, so don't watch a YT vid and think you need that tool. A lot can be done with a sharpie, a sharp nail and a square


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## 140mower (Apr 19, 2022)

I suggest in the beginning that you make some of your first projects be new tools for your new mill. This will both cut your tool up costs and give you some valuable experience and a better idea of what you want to purchase first....... Although, if a rotary table fell on your lap....


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## Susquatch (Apr 19, 2022)

140mower said:


> I suggest in the beginning that you make some of your first projects be new tools for your new mill. This will both cut your tool up costs and give you some valuable experience and a better idea of what you want to purchase first....... Although, if a rotary table fell on your lap....



And so begins our common journey...... Making tools for our tools! 

It's a journey well worth taking.


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## Everett (Apr 19, 2022)

Having a rotary table fall into one's lap, especially one of the male persuasion, could be a very serious injury, lol . . .

That being said, it's amazing what sometimes comes up on Kijiji or Craigslist.  I got my 8" rotary table, basically new old stock, for $200.  Still had the price tag on it after it had sat in storage for almost 10 years (originally came from House of Tools, which had been defunct for 10 years at that point).

I do admit to being a bit of a tool nut though, like pretty much all of us.  Some tools can be made at home, many of which are on my to-do list as well, and as has been said above it can both save a few bucks and bring a lot of satisfaction in using homemade tooling.

That being said, I only have a rotary table and now a tail stock for it, so can't speak to the rigidity of using a dividing head like a rotary table.  Would be interesting to hear what others who have set one up as such would have to say about it.


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## Susquatch (Apr 20, 2022)

Tecnico said:


> Hi
> 
> The mill I'm getting came with a Vertex dividing head (BS-1) and I'm wondering if it would be good practice to use it like a rotary table.  It doesn't have a chuck mounted but has provision for a threaded mount and I see plenty of photos with chucks mounted.
> 
> ...



Looks like nobody wants to take a shot at answering your question. Sometimes I think the more experienced and knowledgeable members would rather tell you why you are wrong. So I'll take a shot at it just to provoke them into setting me straight - to your benefit. 

Both the rotary table and a spin Indexer are used to rotate parts for machining. Both will set very precise angles and can be indexed for machining. 

A dividing head almost always comes with a chuck or jaws of some sort to hold work on their central axis. A table of sorts can be added but it's hard to make it very rigid. And it's usually hard to hold big parts - it's more suited to holding small parts and usually on the axis of the Indexer. 

A rotary table almost never comes with a chuck but always comes with a table with T-slots on it. A rotary table easily accomodates big parts and its hard to use it for small parts. 

A dividing head is usually set up with a horizontal axis of rotation but can be set up for vertical. 

A rotary table is usually set up for a vertical axis of rotation but can be setup for horizontal. Some even come with a mounting plate for horizontal operation - mine did not. 

In summary, a rotary table is best for big parts that are clamped to the T Slots of a table and  rotated about the Z-Axis. 

A dividing head is best for little parts held in a chuck and rotated about a horizontal axis (usually the X axis) 

In other words, very similar and very different. The great news is that ya, you need a rotary table too.....


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## David_R8 (Apr 20, 2022)

My rotary table has provisions for horizontal or vertical mounting and three dividing plates so it does double-duty as a dividing head.


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## Brent H (Apr 20, 2022)

Well……it can be complicated 

Rotary table: robust construction and is used to rotate parts during the milling or machining process.  They can have provision for vertical or horizontal use, can accept chucks and some can be fitted with index plates for dividing up the milling process. Range in size and can get quite large diameters. Also tend to be a flat as possible to avoid taking up valuable tool height - “usually” will have a very accurate scale for angle adjustment. 

Spindexer: or perhaps a collet chuck indexing head is more light duty and works smaller stock that can fit in the 5C collet range.  Usually a horizontal affair and are not intended for super high tolerance work. 

Indexing head: a really good one will have a face plate and chuck. Typically  4 to 8” and work horizontal But have provisions for rotating through angles so you can achieve vertical.  Some have extra gearing and can be driven off the mill feed or separate motors for making helical cuts. They have indexing plates for precision rotation and may or may not have high precision angle divisions.  

I have a rotary table modified for function as an indexing head.  Would I want an indexing head - YES!! Dang auction ….. $10 bucks more - always …. Ugh - bitter …. LOL.  

Get the biggest rotary table your lathe can handle and still have good tool height and a indexing head in a decent size for the work you want to do and then…….


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## David_R8 (Apr 20, 2022)

Here we are spending @Tecnico's money like it's water through our hands


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## Dabbler (Apr 20, 2022)

Brent H said:


> Get the biggest rotary table your lathe can handle


I'm not sure how big my *lathe *can handle


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## Dabbler (Apr 20, 2022)

If another member lives nearby you could always share.


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## David_R8 (Apr 20, 2022)

Dabbler said:


> I'm not sure how big my *lathe *can handle


Yeah when I put my 6" rotary table on my 10" lathe the handle for the table fouled on the ways


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## Susquatch (Apr 20, 2022)

Brent H said:


> Well……it can be complicated
> 
> Rotary table: robust construction and is used to rotate parts during the milling or machining process.  They can have provision for vertical or horizontal use, can accept chucks and some can be fitted with index plates for dividing up the milling process. Range in size and can get quite large diameters. Also tend to be a flat as possible to avoid taking up valuable tool height - “usually” will have a very accurate scale for angle adjustment.
> 
> ...



See that @Technico.... All ya gotta do is get a newbie to say what he knows and then the good stuff flies all over the joint. Those experienced old goats just need sumthin to shoot at! 

Not only that but look what happens when poor @Brent H does double duty and puts it all out there but does a mind flip and puts the biggest table on his lathe. We ALL get to laugh! Bet even Brent is laughing!

Great stuff! You happy now? Or just broke......


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## Brent H (Apr 20, 2022)

Yep - I am laughing here pretty good - but if you think about it - isn’t your lathe just a powered horizontal rotary table    Hahahahaha - I better start proof reading future posts


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## Tecnico (Apr 20, 2022)

This is just too good a thread!  You guys are a riot, good to see nobody takes themselves too seriously.  And, yes, great fun to see all of you try and come up with ways to break my piggy bank.  

So, yes, pretty much as I figured, the dividing head is a more versatile/flexible and lighter rotary table with cross-over up to a certain physical/loading point.  In my case the unit has some pretty beefy bearings on the shaft and it's threaded for a chuck so it's pretty robust.

In some ways I don't yet appreciate the dividing head because in some ways it's not much different from the big rotary table I use on the mill I've been borrowing.  It has a big chuck on it and I used it on some slices of 6" bar stock to make some bolt pattern adapters.  (See what you can do if you have toys!)  Really, the ability to index defined steps is the big difference even if the RT can be adjusted down to minutes/seconds of rotation.  

I see a rotary table in the future but for now the dividing head is going to earn its keep!

Hey @Dabbler I think I saw that there's actually one other member in the area, we haven't crossed paths yet though let alone borrowing tools.

@Darren It's always the way, after you've made something with what you have on hand you swear never again and go out and buy the right tool!

Lots of great comments here, thanks!

D


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## Susquatch (Apr 20, 2022)

Tecnico said:


> Really, the ability to index defined steps is the big difference even if the RT can be adjusted down to minutes/seconds of rotation.



Actually, quite a few members have indexing wheels on their rotary tables. And many dividers don't, so even that isn't really a difference!


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## Darren (Apr 20, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Actually, quite a few members have indexing wheels on their rotary tables. And many dividers don't, so even that isn't really a difference!


I have Vertex plates and sector meant for a BS1 on my 12" Yuasa. Fit right out of the box.


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## Tecnico (Jul 16, 2022)

Just throwing this out there in case.....before I go and buy new or make.  The chuck mounting plate of my DH seems to have gone missing along the way and I'm wondering if anyone out there has one gathering dust.

Lacking that, I'm seeing them being manufactured from cast iron vs steel and I'm wondering if that's a question of economy for mass production or there's a good reason for it to be CI?

My DH is a Vertex BS-1 with 1-1/2-8 thread.

Tks, 

D


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## David_R8 (Jul 16, 2022)

Tecnico said:


> Just throwing this out there in case.....before I go and buy new or make.  The chuck mounting plate of my DH seems to have gone missing along the way and I'm wondering if anyone out there has one gathering dust.
> 
> Lacking that, I'm seeing them being manufactured from cast iron vs steel and I'm wondering if that's a question of economy for mass production or there's a good reason for it to be CI?
> 
> ...


Can you post a pic of your dividing head?


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## Tecnico (Jul 16, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> Can you post a pic of your dividing head?



It looks like this:  

Vertex BS-1

D


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## Darren (Jul 16, 2022)

A 2lb cast iron barbell weight might be a good start.


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## historicalarms (Jul 16, 2022)

Darren said:


> Here's my advice, buy what you need after you've needed it. You'll go broke in a hurry with this hobby otherwise.  There's also a few different ways of skinning cats, so don't watch a YT vid and think you need that tool. A lot can be done with a sharpie, a sharp nail and a square





yup I've bought rotary tables, broaching kits and a myriad of other assorted after reading about them in magazines "just knowing I'll need one sometime"...in some cases "sometime has been years down the road.
    I bet I'm not the only shooting enthusiast on this forum that has bought shells or dies or brass or all the above for a caliber/rifle I don't even own at the time, but just know that I will sometime.


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## 140mower (Jul 16, 2022)

Tecnico said:


> Just throwing this out there in case.....before I go and buy new or make.  The chuck mounting plate of my DH seems to have gone missing along the way and I'm wondering if anyone out there has one gathering dust.
> 
> Lacking that, I'm seeing them being manufactured from cast iron vs steel and I'm wondering if that's a question of economy for mass production or there's a good reason for it to be CI?
> 
> ...


I might have one, I will check when I get home. On day three of my drive to pickup my new to me t&c grinder. It's on the deck and I am on the final 8hrs of the drive..... I'm a sucker for punishment it seems.


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## Tecnico (Jul 16, 2022)

140mower said:


> I might have one, I will check when I get home. On day three of my drive to pickup my new to me t&c grinder. It's on the deck and I am on the final 8hrs of the drive..... I'm a sucker for punishment it seems.


Road Trip!  Even better when picking up new toys tools!

I'll look forward to your follow up.

D


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## 140mower (Jul 16, 2022)

Just got in the door..... A quick look didn't turn one up.   I am not convinced that one might not show up yet, just probably not in a timely manner.


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## Tecnico (Jul 16, 2022)

Thanks for looking, I'm not in a panic but eventually I want to mount a chuck I have that came with the machine.

Hope digging around didn't get in the way of unpacking your new machine!

D


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## 140mower (Jul 16, 2022)

Too tired to deal with it today. 1900 km's in an old Ford that is happiest at 70 kmh makes for a long drive


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## Susquatch (Jul 17, 2022)

Tecnico said:


> I'm wondering if that's a question of economy for mass production or there's a good reason for it to be CI?



As far as I know, it's really just cost. The better ones out there are all machined from steel. If I were making one, I'd start with a slab of steel plate.

But whatever you can find free is always good. I'm an old scrounger. As someone posted, an old barbell weight might be perfect


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## Tecnico (Jul 17, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> But whatever you can find free is always good. I'm an old scrounger. As someone posted, an old barbell weight might be perfect



Scrounge/repurposing is sooo satisfying.  No barbells laying around so I'll have to be patient and see what falls in my lap until I'm not.

D


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## historicalarms (Jul 17, 2022)

Scrounging/repurposing is synonymous with "poverty" ...and I do a lot of both


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## Tecnico (Jul 17, 2022)

historicalarms said:


> Scrounging/repurposing is synonymous with "poverty" ...and I do a lot of both


LOL!  I like to call it frugality (which is another way of saying conserving cash for more toys) or in these times it's also synonymous with being green!

D


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## Susquatch (Jul 17, 2022)

Tecnico said:


> LOL!  I like to call it frugality (which is another way of saying conserving cash for more toys) or in these times it's also synonymous with being green!
> 
> D



Not me, I call it Gyvering and/or farmbricating.


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## Tecnico (Jul 17, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Not me, I call it Gyvering and/or farmbricating.



LOL!  I'm a big fan of McGuyvering.  More to come when I show my updates to my mill dolly.....

D


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## garageguy (Jul 21, 2022)

Sometimes you just need to use your imagination (one of my shortcomings). I was looking for some plate AL to make a mounting plate for a lathe chuck. Spent days searching for the stuff. couldn't find anything, then saw a steel plate that was an adaptor for a brake lathe sitting in my storage shed. It was already machined flat and parallel so all I had to do was change the contour a bit and drill the necessary holes. Often the solution to the problem is not that far away.


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## Tecnico (Jul 21, 2022)

garageguy said:


> Sometimes you just need to use your imagination (one of my shortcomings). I was looking for some plate AL to make a mounting plate for a lathe chuck. Spent days searching for the stuff. couldn't find anything, then saw a steel plate that was an adaptor for a brake lathe sitting in my storage shed. It was already machined flat and parallel so all I had to do was change the contour a bit and drill the necessary holes. Often the solution to the problem is not that far away.


You know, I have a chunk of Al plate that measures .390" laying around, I should put it on the list of candidates as at least a for now solution.

D


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## mickeyf (Jul 21, 2022)

Darren said:


> A 2lb cast iron barbell weight might be a good start.


Very often barbell weights are not suitable for machining - sand inclusion and other defects. They only need to be the right weight and approximate size for their intended purpose, and the material itself is very poor quality for further working. You might get lucky if you go this route, but manage your expectations.


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## Susquatch (Jul 22, 2022)

mickeyf said:


> Very often barbell weights are not suitable for machining - sand inclusion and other defects. They only need to be the right weight and approximate size for their intended purpose, and the material itself is very poor quality for further working. You might get lucky if you go this route, but manage your expectations.



Excellent point! 

I just moved exercise weights down the priority on my dumpster diving list.


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## Darren (Jul 22, 2022)

mickeyf said:


> Very often barbell weights are not suitable for machining - sand inclusion and other defects. They only need to be the right weight and approximate size for their intended purpose, and the material itself is very poor quality for further working. You might get lucky if you go this route, but manage your expectations.


I have had very good luck then. Our local Play It Again Sports has weights pretty cheap and i've made a few things with them and they machined like any other cast iron. No sand or pockets.


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## Susquatch (Jul 22, 2022)

Darren said:


> I have had very good luck then. Our local Play It Again Sports has weights pretty cheap and i've made a few things with them and they machined like any other cast iron. No sand or pockets.



Crap, here we go on another roller coaster ride! Then again, I kinda enjoy dumpster diving....


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## Johnwa (Jul 23, 2022)

Tecnico said:


> My DH is a Vertex BS-1 with 1-1/2-8 thread.
> 
> Tks,
> 
> D


That’s the same thread as my 9” Southbend lathe.  It’s also used on some of the Standard Modern lathes.


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