# 4x6 Horizontal Bandsaws



## architect (Dec 21, 2020)

I'm looking to get one of these machines and I understand they are all just the same from China customized for different companies. However, it seems like like the  King KC-129C provides 2 year warranty compared to 3 year by Busy Bee CX122. Is that indicative of anything or even useful? I can get the King for $100 less right now on sale so that may just be the deciding factor. Busy Bee also has this similar CX109 model that's priced higher and from Taiwan. It's noticeably different design and 40lb heavier compared to all the other typical models. Does anyone have experience and thought with it or whehter it's worth going for with the higher price tag?

EDIT: It appears the CX109 has a rotating head instead of vise. I assume this is better can't don't understand how if someone has insight.


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## David_R8 (Dec 21, 2020)

I have no experience with either but I have have excellent service from my local KMS tools who sells KIng. I've heard stories of less than great products and service from Busy Bee.


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## Johnwa (Dec 21, 2020)

I bought the cheapest busybee version about 15 years ago.  I had to replace the motor a couple of years ago.  I think the bearings seized up.  One thing to note is that on mine the idler wheel runs on a hardened steel bushing rather than a bearing.  As long as I give it a bit of oil occasionally it works fine.  
It’s one of those tools that once you have it you wonder how you ever did without it!


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## PeterT (Dec 21, 2020)

Do a forum search, this has been discussed quite a bit, pros & cons of different models & sizes. I personally value the option to have a table attached in upright mode (vs just swing down chop off mode) but that's a function of work I do. The table mounting is typically cheesy but better than nothing.


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## Tom Kitta (Dec 21, 2020)

I owned King version few years ago. The saw itself is good, the table is extra flimsy made out of sheet metal that falls apart but so are all other clones. 

You can usually get a used clone for around $200 or even less. 

The one I had was K-129 like you posted a link to - I think like 5 years ago it set me back around 300-350 new. Used for a year. 

Since there is close to zero difference between different clones of 4x6 get the cheapest one. Parts do interchange, however the design is quite solid. Same for 7x10 models - these also interchange with ease - even ones that are 30 years old.

The rotating head is to cut at an angle. 

Get bi-metal blade online and have a saw blade that will last a very, very long time for home use. 

KMS in Calgary area is not much better then BB, through do not expect to ever need any service or warranty for that type of saw unless you ride them extra hard or get a lemon that will be obvious in the first week or so.


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## architect (Dec 21, 2020)

Tom Kitta said:


> I owned King version few years ago. The saw itself is good, the table is extra flimsy made out of sheet metal that falls apart but so are all other clones.
> 
> You can usually get a used clone for around $200 or even less.
> 
> ...


I've been been waiting for a used 4x6 one for almost two months here and nothing. Anything that comes up are bigger industrial ones. These 4x6 can cut at an angle as well by rotating the vise right? The Taiwanese model that weights 40lbs appear to be able to swivel the head instead?


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## kevin.decelles (Dec 21, 2020)

I converted my 4x6 to a permanent vertical model after I picked up a 7x12.  I use the vertical twice as much as the horizontal now.  I purchased it from Princess Auto for ~200 bucks 20 years ago.  Everyone is correct, the parts are pretty much exchangeable on all of the various models.    The 'tables' they send with these are throwaway, and the stand isn't anything to write home about.  

As for blades, I can destroy a $50 dollar blade equally as fast as a $10 blade.  Run it cool (wax/lubricant) and don't force it and you can get a lot of mileage out of a single blade.


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## Tom Kitta (Dec 21, 2020)

I saw a used 4x6 sell about a week ago. It was not in show room condition. Used 4x6 or 7x10 come up at least once a month (well not now its Christmas). expect to pay around 500 for used 7x10. Lots of them for sale used - very popular. During season I see them twice a month or so used for sale.


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## architect (Dec 21, 2020)

Tom Kitta said:


> I saw a used 4x6 sell about a week ago. It was not in show room condition. Used 4x6 or 7x10 come up at least once a month (well not now its Christmas). expect to pay around 500 for used 7x10. Lots of them for sale used - very popular. During season I see them twice a month or so used for sale.


Not the case in Ontario unfortunately


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## PeterT (Dec 21, 2020)

My (circa late 90's) House of Tools, Taiwan, 7x11-ish has a decent steel table maybe 3mm thick. Making a better table is the easy part. The inherent issue is the table is bolted to a teeny footprint block of steel which doubles as the lower bearing block. Its bolted to something else & the whole affair is kind of loosey-goosey alignment to the blade until tightened. The block can't really be redesigned to be much larger or it wont clear features on the vise & casting base in swing down chop mode. I just live with it.


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## architect (Dec 21, 2020)

Thanks everyone. KBC has $100 off so I can get a new King for $420 fee shipping which seems like the best value right now. Been waiting two see if any holiday sales come up.


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## architect (Dec 22, 2020)

Okay, so after giving further thought and wanting repeatability on mitered cut I'm now considering the King 129DS with a swivel head and hydraulic downfeed.  However, it lacks the vertical cutting that many seem to like. What is everyone doing with their vertical setup? This King model looks simialar to the popular American Baileigh BS-128M that comes with a table adapter. I hoping it can be adapted or even make my own for the King and it's just not advertised as such. The Busy Bee CSA CX116 is exactly like the Baileigh except for the base but again, no mention of vertical option and no table include. I'm leaning towards the King as KBC is giving $100 off right now.


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## David_R8 (Dec 22, 2020)

For vertical I use my 14” metal cutting bandsaw.


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## PeterT (Dec 23, 2020)

Weird, the Busy Bee has the same what looks like lower bearing block / table adapter bolt pattern. One page in manual even talks about upright mode. But I don't see the actual table in parts diagram. Maybe its there I'm not good at Where is Waldo sometimes. Not advocating the BB but usually these machines are quite similar, if not the same.


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## John Conroy (Dec 23, 2020)

Just so you know the Baileigh is made in China just like the rest of them according to the only review.


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## architect (Dec 23, 2020)

Yeah it seems like all of them should then in theory support the vertical cutting. It seems like King and Busy Bee decided to simply exclude mentioning this and not offer the simple table adapter. Perhaps they want to avoid cannibalizing their other models by offer this feature. This make both King and Busy Bee models more attractive for me with very limited space.


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## John Conroy (Dec 23, 2020)

My 7 X 12 saw from KMS did not come with the plate for vertical use. I had to make one,


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## kevin.decelles (Dec 23, 2020)

Mine came with one , I threw it I the scrap pile and scavenged one from an atlas wood bandsaw





























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## architect (Dec 23, 2020)

PeterT said:


> Weird, the Busy Bee has the same what looks like lower bearing block / table adapter bolt pattern. One page in manual even talks about upright mode. But I don't see the actual table in parts diagram. Maybe its there I'm not good at Where is Waldo sometimes. Not advocating the BB but usually these machines are quite similar, if not the same.


The manual is sorely lacking on the King but I don't see a reason it also won't be able to lock upright in vertical considering it looks almost identical to all the other Chinese swing heads. King lacks images but the other key is having two threaded holes at the block to to bolt a table onto.


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## architect (Dec 23, 2020)

PeterT said:


> Weird, the Busy Bee has the same what looks like lower bearing block / table adapter bolt pattern. One page in manual even talks about upright mode. But I don't see the actual table in parts diagram. Maybe its there I'm not good at Where is Waldo sometimes. Not advocating the BB but usually these machines are quite similar, if not the same.



The King service manual shows identical lower bearing block with the threads.






Baileigh model:


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## Janger (Jan 2, 2021)

I reworked this saw horse roller stand for the bandsaw - adding the roller and welding handles on the locking adjustment nut. It is much nicer to use now. The old version just spun around and was awkward. Don't look at those horrible welds though  I suppose it needs paint. I scrounged all the parts just lying around which is always nice.


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## Dabbler (Jan 2, 2021)

It looks like the busy bee bandsaw can be adapted to vertical use quite easily.  a bit of work, but not hard.


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## Janger (Jan 3, 2021)

Janger said:


> I reworked this saw horse roller stand for the bandsaw - adding the roller and welding handles on the locking adjustment nut. It is much nicer to use now. The old version just spun around and was awkward. Don't look at those horrible welds though  I suppose it needs paint. I scrounged all the parts just lying around which is always nice.
> 
> View attachment 12493



What do other people do? The commercial versions of these things don't go down low enough to work with metal horizontal band saws. Let's see some pictures?


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## Johnwa (Jan 3, 2021)

Janger said:


> What do other people do? The commercial versions of these things don't go down low enough to work with metal horizontal band saws. Let's see some pictures?



I built one out of a 2x4.  It’s isn’t adjustable and doesn’t look good enough for pictures.


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## kevin.decelles (Jan 3, 2021)

Janger said:


> What do other people do? The commercial versions of these things don't go down low enough to work with metal horizontal band saws. Let's see some pictures?



I’m using this (you wanted to see bad welding!)

Old brake rotors, tele-posts, ready rod ....








And I use the magnet/gantry to move larger materials








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## francist (Jan 3, 2021)

I made these quite a few years ago. They work okay but can be a little fussy. Three point adjustability to correct for notoriously uneven concrete floor is handy and I used to have bigger Nylatron rollers but I scavenged them for reuse already so the brass tubes are a half-baked substitute. Although not clearly shown in the photo, the vertical columns are biased about five degrees toward the long leg so they’re not quite as tippy as they look.

Vertical height adjustment on the column in increments of about half an inch using staggered holes and hitch pins. The wire basket is nice for catching off cuts if I’m doing a lot of multiples but in reality doesn’t get used much. I think I’ll phase these out and go with a ballasted monolithic base but for now they still do the job and nest into a fairly small footprint when not in use.


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## Janger (Jan 3, 2021)

francist said:


> I made these quite a few years ago. They work okay but can be a little fussy. Three point adjustability to correct for notoriously uneven concrete floor is handy and I used to have bigger Nylatron rollers but I scavenged them for reuse already so the brass tubes are a half-baked substitute. Although not clearly shown in the photo, the vertical columns are biased about five degrees toward the long leg so they’re not quite as tippy as they look.
> 
> Vertical height adjustment on the column in increments of about half an inch using staggered holes and hitch pins. The wire basket is nice for catching off cuts if I’m doing a lot of multiples but in reality doesn’t get used much. I think I’ll phase these out and go with a ballasted monolithic base but for now they still do the job and nest into a fairly small footprint when not in use.
> 
> ...


Nicely executed and nice paint too.


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## Janger (Jan 3, 2021)

Busy bee sells this roller stand $400 on sale $259. Goes down to 24.5". clever design the top stays level even as you expand it.


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## Janger (Jan 3, 2021)

@David_R8 @Crosche @Dabbler @historicalarms @Brent H What have you guys got?


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## Dabbler (Jan 3, 2021)

I use Record woodworking roller stands, one on each side of the saw.  My saw is a little taller than a 4X6.


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## DPittman (Jan 3, 2021)

I used some oddball t-bar from a garage door opener and made a fairly heavy duty stand. I used carriage bolts for leg adjustments as my shop floor is far from even.


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## RobinHood (Jan 3, 2021)

Nice stands, Gents.

I really need to make some...


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## kevin.decelles (Jan 3, 2021)

I’m not a huge fan of the roller . It’s handy but has caused me more grief than not. 

Personal preference I guess . Also a good clue that I don’t cut production runs of steel every day [emoji3]


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## David_R8 (Jan 3, 2021)

I have one of these. 
It was too low before I built my new saw stand but now it works great. 
I have Sharpie lines drawn on centre tube to mark the heights needed for the band saw and table saw.


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## DPittman (Jan 3, 2021)

kevin.decelles said:


> I’m not a huge fan of the roller . It’s handy but has caused me more grief than not.
> 
> Personal preference I guess . Also a good clue that I don’t cut production runs of steel every day
> 
> ...


Yup the roller isn't perfect for all times that's why I made the roller easy to unbolt and attach a non moving bar that I was going to make...... but haven't yet cuz thats what I made first and haven't got around to making the second part yet.   I seem to make do and likely won't get to the second part in this life.


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## YYCHM (Jan 3, 2021)

My pathetic excuse for a stand..... LOL







How did this thread morph into a stand thread???


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## Janger (Jan 3, 2021)

This is a good topic! Anybody else got
Pictures? Post!


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## Tom Kitta (Jan 4, 2021)

I use what Kevin uses. I see you have not changed ultra heavy duty wheels on my old saw.


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## CalgaryPT (Jan 4, 2021)

I've owned several brands over the years. There is one advantage of the King in that they have a massive parts warehouse in Quebec, and it is pretty easy to get parts as needed. My experience has been good at least.

As I am on the fabrication side of the hobby here is a consideration I learned when it comes to horizontal band saws: if you have limited shop space AND do a lot of angle cuts to long lengths of tubing like I do, consider a saw that swivels instead of a saw whose vice swivels. This is because if you have to pivot a 12' length of tubing you are cutting at a 45 degree angle, you need lots of sweep space in your shop for the cut. With a swivel saw, the whole saw pivots, so you only need space to run the length of tubing straight in your shop.

Pulling out a typical swivel vice saw into the driveway just so you can make a cut in the middle of a Canadian winter cuts into the fun factor as you get older.


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## John Conroy (Jan 4, 2021)

Mine started out as a King brand from KMS. It had a roller on the top but I didn't like that so I replaced it with a piece of tubing. It's height adjustable with a pinch bolt. The best thing about it is that it takes up no space when not in use. I had to cut about 2 inches off the uprights so it is short enough for my horizontal saw.

https://www.kmstools.com/king-canada-adjustable-roller-stand-106197









Strong enough for some pretty beefy stuff. This a 10 foot length of 1/2" X 7" steel.


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## historicalarms (Jan 4, 2021)

Janger said:


> @David_R8 @Crosche @Dabbler @historicalarms @Brent H What have you guys got?


   I use the same roller as you modified except mine is mounted on a A-frame stand. The stand is sturdy enough for what it is meant for (lighter stuff) but my roller is as yours originaly was, still swivels around and easily comes off the mounting bar.
      While I have that roller for lighter stuff, for heavier stuff I use my engine hoist...just sling a loop of chain from the hanger hook, line er up with the saw table both height-wise and angle wise. I have cut a lot of  8 or 10 inch heavy pipe in my little 4" band saw using this set-up. I make the first cut then roll the pipe 1/3 turn, line up the saw blade with the already cut slot and cut again and again until done. Its suprising how even and square cut you can easily get if you have an accurately cutting blade . If I end up with a jagged cut and need it super square I just face off in the lathe. 8" is easily done but 10" requires a bit of jury rigging of tool post & cutter sometimes.


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## CalgaryPT (Jan 4, 2021)

Janger said:


> What do other people do? The commercial versions of these things don't go down low enough to work with metal horizontal band saws. Let's see some pictures?


The Busy Bee Craftex CX910 HD model will go down to 24". I moved to this model after some of my heavier projects starting sinking the cheaper stands and throwing my cuts off. This one weighs almost 40 lbs. and will support up to 270 lbs. It's very beefy.






Hey John—I see you've repurposed one of those old FIRST stands you and I worked on years ago. Good for you


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## Brent H (Jan 4, 2021)

@Janger - I do not have a large bandsaw - I cry a lot about that fact and I actively seeking one but for now, I use my small band saw that I can support the steel on my welding table or I plasma cut or oxy/acet cut the bigger stuff.   On the ship we have a large horizontal King bandsaw and the stand for that is :





I have a few projects coming up where a larger bandsaw will be necessary


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## CalgaryPT (Jan 4, 2021)

How do you micro adjust inbetween holes Brent, or did you custom build the base to be level with the saw?


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## Brent H (Jan 4, 2021)

@CalgaryPT - the base was made and the one pin drilled at the exact height.  The saw is not very “portable” so the base only really supports the in feed end.  The out feed is behind the main engine coolers so you have to be pretty quick to keep your parts out of the bilge. LOL


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## architect (Jan 4, 2021)

John Conroy said:


> Mine started out as a King brand from KMS. It had a roller on the top but I didn't like that so I replaced it with a piece of tubing. It's height adjustable with a pinch bolt. The best thing about it is that it takes up no space when not in use. I had to cut about 2 inches off the uprights so it is short enough for my horizontal saw.
> 
> https://www.kmstools.com/king-canada-adjustable-roller-stand-106197
> 
> ...


Waiting for my saw still but I bought one of these stands from PA for $15 on sale for its foldability in my tiny garage.


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## Dabbler (Jan 4, 2021)

aside from the 'Record' woodworking ones, I use this heavy duty stand for larger work items...

The centre rod is solid 2 1/2" steel shafting and the outside tube is from a discarded hydraulic cylinder.  
It will reach up to 62" high, and can hold a lot... I've put 600 lbs on it and it didn't budge...

I have some improvements do do, perhaps in the summer...


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## Janger (Jan 5, 2021)

Did Burt make that John? looks like his green.


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## Dabbler (Jan 5, 2021)

I did all the welding, and he did the machining.  The mods are to make it easier to use, and fixing little things the didn't go well.  He never used it, so he never experienced the problems.  Yes it is painted in Bert Green...


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## Crosche (Jan 10, 2021)

Janger said:


> @David_R8 @Crosche @Dabbler @historicalarms @Brent H What have you guys got?



Sorry about the late reply; here is a stand that I constructed a few years ago. It doesn't see much use, but sure comes in handy when I need it.


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## Janger (Jan 10, 2021)

Does the top come out of the post when you move / lift it? I found that really annoying.

@Dabbler your fancy home built one - does the handle adjust the height? Or is that to lock the threads so it does not spin? Not sure how yours works.


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## Crosche (Jan 10, 2021)

Janger said:


> Does the top come out of the post when you move / lift it? I found that really annoying.
> 
> @Dabbler your fancy home built one - does the handle adjust the height? Or is that to lock the threads so it does not spin? Not sure how yours works.



Yes, the top on mine does come out of the tube when lifted. It can be a bit annoying at times and probably not too hard to remedy. I could weld the nut to the tube to prevent the stem from pulling out or something like that.


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## Dabbler (Jan 10, 2021)

It raises the roller.  Unfortunately it spins freely.  That's one of the things that I indend to address this summer - when I have room to machine!

THe other thing to address is that if you try to lift it by the roller, the screw just pulls out.  By summer it will be captive, I swear!


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## Janger (Jan 10, 2021)

Yeah my latest version here has a welded nut to the stand and the lock nut with handles. It stays together and does not spin loose when you move the stand. So good that way. Better but It’s still not quite right. to adjust the height you have  loosen the nut and spin the roller to move up down then tighten the nut. The problem with that is you want to change the height when there is material sitting on it so then you have to hold the material in the air in order to adjust the height. Awkward. 

I think spinning the nut should raise lower the material and a separate handle should lock the shaft. And when you spin the nut the roller should not spin on the jack axis.  Needs a redesign.


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## historicalarms (Jan 11, 2021)

Janger said:


> Yeah my latest version here has a welded nut to the stand and the lock nut with handles. It stays together and does not spin loose when you move the stand. So good that way. Better but It’s still not quite right. to adjust the height you have  loosen the nut and spin the roller to move up down then tighten the nut. The problem with that is you want to change the height when there is material sitting on it so then you have to hold the material in the air in order to adjust the height. Awkward.
> 
> I think spinning the nut should raise lower the material and a separate handle should lock the shaft. And when you spin the nut the roller should not spin on the jack axis.  Needs a redesign. View attachment 12647



    Your 'awkward" problem is why I prefer the engine hoist to any stationary stand. with the hoist, with no manhandling of the material at all, I have an infinite height adjustment available with just a little stroke of the handle


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## kevin.decelles (Jan 11, 2021)

Janger said:


> I think spinning the nut should raise lower the material and a separate handle should lock the shaft.


All my stands have the 'run-loose-in-the-tube' design (turning the nut raises the load),  but my larger set has a tube with tighter tolerances and has a nut welded on the side with an 'L' shaped rod thread in to lock the shaft.

I like the the run-loose version but that's because I can move the gantry to 'hold the load' as I adjust.


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## Janger (Jan 11, 2021)

kevin.decelles said:


> All my stands have the 'run-loose-in-the-tube' design (turning the nut raises the load),  but my larger set has a tube with tighter tolerances and has a nut welded on the side with an 'L' shaped rod thread in to lock the shaft.
> 
> I like the the run-loose version but that's because I can move the gantry to 'hold the load' as I adjust.



Does the locking rod press into the shaft threads? Is there wear? Would a softer wedge on the locking rod be a good idea?

I saw a couple commercial versions use either a chair type gas cylinder or a hydraulic lift cylinder to allow for height adjustment. They had foot pedals.


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## Chicken lights (Jan 11, 2021)

Janger said:


> Does the locking rod press into the shaft threads? Is there wear? Would a softer wedge on the locking rod be a good idea?
> 
> I saw a couple commercial versions use either a chair type gas cylinder or a hydraulic lift cylinder to allow for height adjustment. They had foot pedals.


Tranny jacks have both a hand pump with a rod, and a pedal at the bottom for your foot. If you stole that idea you could comfortably hold the work piece and use your foot to raise it to the right height


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## John Conroy (Jan 21, 2021)

I saw this post on Homemadetools.net for a split nut to allow quick adjustment of long threaded rods.
https://www.homemadetools.net/homemade-split-nut

Today I copied his idea and welded the piece I made to the jaw extension on my saw. It works great, holds solid when it should and adjusts quickly just by lifting the end of the threaded rod.


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## YYCHM (Jan 21, 2021)

Now I know what to do with the puck I found behind my car


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## Hruul (Jan 22, 2021)

Thanks John.  I saw that post, but did not think to use it for that application, going to have to make this.


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## architect (Jan 27, 2021)

So bringing this thread back to bandsaws 

I finally decided and pulled the trigger on the King 129DS swivel head. The decision was based on: small footprint; tiny packed garage and not able to swing my material around; repeatability of different miter cuts by not having to remeasure and adjust the vise each time; hydraulic arm for a bit more "automatic" cutting.

To my surprise, the unit came with the cheap metal vertical tables that comes with all vertical/horizontal bandsaws and I was hoping this would a feature even though it wasn't advertised. But I also realize the unit won't swing up to full vertical position. I suspect the hydraulic arm is too short on this model because the Baleigh 128M which allows vertical has a much longer arm.

Any idea how I can hack the King? I thought about removing the hydraulic arm for when I want to bring it vertical; it also probably needs to removed to clear the on/off buttons which double as auto shut off.  However, there's no way of locking it up into the position either. I thinking about building a bracket as there is a pin and hole system that I assume helps you lock it at 45 degrees.

Edit: I looked back at my previous post and research and it looks like that is how Busy Bee's model is applying their "vertical" feature. The difference is their rear bracket includes a hole to pin lock into vertical position which was what I was thinking as well by adding a bracket!


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## architect (Jan 28, 2021)

Posting this for anyone else that may be researching band saws. The King 129DS sits pretty sturdy in vertical position by just disconnecting the bolt on the hydraulic arm (this thing is 180lbs). I dont even think I need to worry about making a bracket and pin as the cutting action will be pushing away from it's closing action. I can't believe King nor KBC bother advertising that it is a vertical saw when it comes with the vertical table!

(No idea why my images get rotated when uploaded)


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## kevin.decelles (Jan 29, 2021)

I’d pin it regardless. If you snag the blade during a vertical cut and if it is pinned the blade will either stall or chip. If u don’t have it pinned I’ve had the saw lurch and buck (energy followed path of least resistance) and this was worse. 

Rigidity is everything IMHO


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## Chicken lights (Mar 15, 2021)

What’s a good price on a King bandsaw? Does King sell a support roller separate from the machine?


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## CalgaryPT (Mar 15, 2021)

I think the Kings run about $500 now. Personally I like their tools because they have a huge warehouse in Quebec you can get parts from. Not sure if KMS sells their stand, but they are here: https://www.kingcanada.com/en/products/accessories/roller-stands-omni-directional-stands/

Update, they do: https://www.kmstools.com/search/results?inc_subcat=1&search_in_description=&keyword=roller+stands


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## Chicken lights (Mar 15, 2021)

CalgaryPT said:


> I think the Kings run about $500 now. Personally I like their tools because they have a huge warehouse in Quebec you can get parts from. Not sure if KMS sells their stand, but they are here: https://www.kingcanada.com/en/products/accessories/roller-stands-omni-directional-stands/
> 
> Update, they do: https://www.kmstools.com/search/results?inc_subcat=1&search_in_description=&keyword=roller+stands


There’s a place in Ottawa advertising a King 5x6 for $550, so not out of line. They showed the extension table but not just a stand. I’ll look more tomorrow during business hours, there’s a local place I got parts for my King belt sander from before


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