# Is it another technology?  Yes?  Good!



## PaulL (Mar 22, 2022)

Hi from Victoria, BC.
I've stumbled into machining recently, from a background that includes cabinet making, blacksmithing, weaving, and a career in computer science/engineering.
Seem that if it's technology it interests me.
I just got my first lathe as a byproduct of wanting to drill out and machine late-17thC lock-and-key reproductions, which I'm *really bad* at, but I'm having a blast!
I'm hoping that I'll be able to make a thing soon, rather than just more lathe accessories, but let's not get ahead of ourselves!


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## YYCHM (Mar 22, 2022)

Welcome from Calgary.


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## crittermutt (Mar 22, 2022)

Welcome from Sherwood park.


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## trlvn (Mar 22, 2022)

Welcome from Oakville, ON.  That's two blacksmiths this week!?!  I hope you're not going to be 'upsetting' the rest of us with your jargon!

Craig


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## StevSmar (Mar 22, 2022)

Welcome from Winnipeg. I have absolutely no idea what I’m doing with my lathe but I’m having a great time!


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## Janger (Mar 22, 2022)

plalonde said:


> Hi from Victoria, BC.
> I've stumbled into machining recently, from a background that includes cabinet making, blacksmithing, weaving, and a career in computer science/engineering.
> Seem that if it's technology it interests me.
> I just got my first lathe as a byproduct of wanting to drill out and machine late-17thC lock-and-key reproductions, which I'm *really bad* at, but I'm having a blast!
> I'm hoping that I'll be able to make a thing soon, rather than just more lathe accessories, but let's not get ahead of ourselves!


Tools for tools! As usual.


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## whydontu (Mar 22, 2022)

welcome from Richmond


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## DPittman (Mar 22, 2022)

Welcome.  That's quite a repertoire of talents/hobbies.  No time to get bored I'm sure.


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## CalgaryPT (Mar 22, 2022)

Welcome from Calgary. Weaving?  Now that sounds interesting. I knew a guy that made a loom once. Now that was cool


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## 140mower (Mar 22, 2022)

Welcome from Lillooet BC. I think making tools for your tools is the best way to learn to use them. And!!!! You get new tools to boot!


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## David_R8 (Mar 22, 2022)

plalonde said:


> Hi from Victoria, BC.
> I've stumbled into machining recently, from a background that includes cabinet making, blacksmithing, weaving, and a career in computer science/engineering.
> Seem that if it's technology it interests me.
> I just got my first lathe as a byproduct of wanting to drill out and machine late-17thC lock-and-key reproductions, which I'm *really bad* at, but I'm having a blast!
> I'm hoping that I'll be able to make a thing soon, rather than just more lathe accessories, but let's not get ahead of ourselves!


Welcome from just down the street! Well maybe depending on where you live in Victoria


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## PaulL (Mar 22, 2022)

I think everything in Victoria is effectively just down the street.  Including the tool shops...


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## 6.5 Fan (Mar 23, 2022)

Welcome from SK.


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## trials20 (Mar 23, 2022)

Welcome from Cobble Hill, just up the street.


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## Hruul (Mar 23, 2022)

Welcome from SK.


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## Everett (Mar 23, 2022)

Welcome here, cool that you do weaving too. My Mom is part of her local weaving guild and I made her a couple shuttles from wood and metal a couple years ago. There is a LOT to weaving, looks interesting but I've already fallen down a couple rabbit holes and lack the time for another one, lol!


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## SomeGuy (Mar 23, 2022)

Welcome...my day job is computer science (software architecture) as well.


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## PaulL (Mar 23, 2022)

Everett said:


> Welcome here, cool that you do weaving too. My Mom is part of her local weaving guild and I made her a couple shuttles from wood and metal a couple years ago. There is a LOT to weaving, looks interesting but I've already fallen down a couple rabbit holes and lack the time for another one, lol!


It's certainly a rabbit hole.  My wife is the patient one who can set up a wide warp and throw the shuttle for hours.  I'm the technical one who does setup and debugging, with the occasional bit of loom- making though they are generally nasty jobs with insufficiently precise parts.  I suspect being able to turn wheels and shafts and such might improve these efforts.


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## PaulL (Mar 23, 2022)

SomeGuy said:


> Welcome...my day job is computer science (software architecture) as well.


The bootstrapping/yak shaving aspect certainly tickles the same pleasure centers!


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## David_R8 (Mar 23, 2022)

plalonde said:


> The bootstrapping/yak shaving aspect certainly tickles the same pleasure centers!


I only just learned the term "yak shaving" in a Blondihacks vid today....


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## YYCHM (Mar 23, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> I only just learned the term "yak shaving" in a Blondihacks vid today....



And..... what does it mean?


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## David_R8 (Mar 23, 2022)

__





						LMGTFY - Let Me Google That For You
					

For all those people who find it more convenient to bother you with their question rather than to Google it for themselves.




					lmgtfy.app


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## Tomc938 (Mar 23, 2022)

Welcome from Campbell River!

We're starting to get a few of us on the Island now.  Perhaps we'll have to get together for coffee down there some time.


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## Everett (Mar 23, 2022)

I have to admit, when I first heard the term 'yak shaving' the first thoughts that ran through my mind were relating to Ren & Stimpy, from when I was a teenager, lol


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## DPittman (Mar 23, 2022)

Everett said:


> I have to admit, when I first heard the term 'yak shaving' the first thoughts that ran through my mind were relating to Ren & Stimpy, from when I was a teenager, lol


Ha ha, today was the first time I've heard of the term.  My first thought was "what the heck does personal grooming have to do with metal working".  So I had to Google it and found that in fact I HAVE shaved a yak, many of times.  
I should have known that Blondihacks would have kept her script relevant and meaningful.  Now had there been a reference to "Ave" using the term, I would have just moved on.


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## 6.5 Fan (Mar 24, 2022)

Before yak shaving became a thing we just called it "screwing around".


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## PaulL (Mar 24, 2022)

6.5 Fan said:


> Before yak shaving became a thing we just called it "screwing around".


But with intent!


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## Marc Moreau (Mar 31, 2022)

Welcome from Gatineau Quebec


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## mickeyf (Jul 16, 2022)

Yes, I find that if any technology interests you, then _any_ technology will also interest you. I tinkered with electronics as a pre-teen, as a young adult did guitar repair until I thought about how my tools came to be, took machinist training and was an apprentice for a couple of years, working at the turret lathe thought about how I could hook this thing up to one of those newly invented micro-processors, shifted careers into software development, managed a small electronics development company for a little while... and after finally going back to software for many years  finally retired as the hobby machinist/electronics tinkerer I am today.

Oh, and if she doesn't already have an electric bobbin winder, a good lathe project might be to make your wife one by mating a long tapered shaft to a sewing machine motor. (I also had a weaving business with my wife for a few years in between some of those other activities, and have made a number bobbin winders for other weavers.)


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## Brent H (Jul 16, 2022)

Not sure I would ever use the term “yak shaving” for anything unless I had a yak mounted in my lathe or running one through a saw for some reason?


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## LenVW (Jul 16, 2022)

PaulL said:


> But with intent!


Hi Paul,
What discipline of technology do you practice ?
I have gained skills and credentials thru machining, mechanical equipment design, process improvements and then business operations. This group has let me ‘revisit‘ the world of precision machining and design for manufacturing.


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## PaulL (Jul 16, 2022)

LenVW said:


> Hi Paul,
> What discipline of technology do you practice ?
> I have gained skills and credentials thru machining, mechanical equipment design, process improvements and then business operations. This group has let me ‘revisit‘ the world of precision machining and design for manufacturing.


Professionally I'm software engineer who does datacenter and large-scale systems design, usually in the computer graphics application space. Fitness-to-purpose keeps me very active in the business side as well.
But after moving electrons all day I like to get the rest of the atom going.  And that was woodworking for many years, and blacksmithing to support the woodworking - tools and furniture hardware, and a bit of traditional inuit qajaq construction, and small boats.  With a dose of timber framing and other construction work.


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## LenVW (Jul 16, 2022)

You are the 3rd software engineer that I have ran across on this CHMWs.
There must be a common need to produce a ‘touch-able’ product in the ‘coding’ challenges you guys see everyday.

I stated as a machinist, moved into product design, developed numerous industrial processes and managed sales for application engineering.
Now, I work PT dealing with the chaos we are seeing in vendor supply chains.

In the last year I have acquired a mini-mill, drill press, porta-band and opened my machinist toolbox from 30 years ago to use my dial indicator for squareness and try vise-cutter setups.

I am reacquainting myself with the skills required to manufacture items.


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## Janger (Jul 16, 2022)

There are way more than 3 IT guys on the forum. Metalwork seems to draw us in. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was 50% of the members.


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## David_R8 (Jul 16, 2022)

I’m not a programmer but work in the IT field in privacy and security. 
Making stuff keeps me sane.


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## LenVW (Jul 16, 2022)

I guess there is an attraction that brings electronic chips to machining chips.
LOL

Eventually I have designed and developed machines on CAD and moved towards project and department management.


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## SomeGuy (Jul 16, 2022)

It's mostly just the mindset of people in the software/IT/tech fields, we like understanding things from the very foundation to final application, and so it fits well with learning to make stuff.

I also mentioned to you @LenVW that the last thing I want to do after work is be in front of a screen, so getting out in the garage is nice.


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## PaulL (Jul 16, 2022)

LenVW said:


> I guess there is an attraction that brings electronic chips to machining chips.
> LOL
> 
> Eventually I have designed and developed machines on CAD and moved towards project and department management.


For me it's the tool-making.  So much software development work involves building the tools to make the software.  That those tools are software themselves...
It fits well with metalwork, where so much of the time is in tool and jig making.


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## Susquatch (Jul 17, 2022)

LenVW said:


> You are the 3rd software engineer that I have ran across on this CHMWs



I see your posts everywhere! I think you are blind @LenVW .

There are at least 3000 of those seedy characters on here. And depending on how big your "programming" brush is, maybe 3 million! CHMW is infested with them.

Ya, with the right brush, I'm one too! Done a lot of programming in my day!


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## jcdammeyer (Jul 17, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> I see your posts everywhere! I think you are blind @LenVW .
> 
> There are at least 3000 of those seedy characters on here. And depending on how big your "programming" brush is, maybe 3 million! CHMW is infested with them.
> 
> Ya, with the right brush, I'm one too! Done a lot of programming in my day!


Hmmmm.  I'm a seedy infestation now....  <GRIN>.
I'm Comp.Sci. with minor in EE.  However I come from an age where Grade 8 still had a shop class that included wood working, metal working, printing, pottery and plastics.  Still have the meat tenderizing hammer made using lathe, shaper, drill press and even hand tapping and die threading. But then it was a novel Jr. High School built as a round building with the Gym in the center.


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## Aarknoid (Jul 18, 2022)

Although I know of yak shaving from ren and stimpy I have read it was coined at MIT

*








						Yak Shaving Defined - I'll get that done, as soon as I shave this yak.
					

I've used the term Yak Shaving for years. You're probably shaving yaks at work ...




					www.hanselman.com
				



*


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## LenVW (Jul 19, 2022)

jcdammeyer said:


> Hmmmm.  I'm a seedy infestation now....  <GRIN>.
> I'm Comp.Sci. with minor in EE.  However I come from an age where Grade 8 still had a shop class that included wood working, metal working, printing, pottery and plastics.  Still have the meat tenderizing hammer made using lathe, shaper, drill press and even hand tapping and die threading. But then it was a novel Jr. High School built as a round building with the Gym in the center.


Hey @jcdammeyer,
We made that exact ‘meat tenderizer’ in ‘my‘ high school shop class.
Did you bore out the handle to use as a blood tank ?
Our machine shop instructor was a bit of a character.


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## jcdammeyer (Jul 19, 2022)

LenVW said:


> Hey @jcdammeyer,
> We made that exact ‘meat tenderizer’ in ‘my‘ high school shop class.
> Did you bore out the handle to use as a blood tank ?
> Our machine shop instructor was a bit of a character.


Nothing too fancy for grade 8 class.  But it was that experience that had me buy my little Unimat DB-200 decades later and then build the foundry and the Gingery Lathe (along with the slip roll, power hack saw).  A friend took my Sears Drill press spindle and bored a hole through it so I could attach a draw bar to the MT3 tooling.  An XY vise served quite well for a lot of the first projects.  The key thing about the drill press is it was possible to clamp and also adjust the clearance on the quill.


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## Susquatch (Jul 19, 2022)

jcdammeyer said:


> An XY vise served quite well for a lot of the first projects. The key thing about the drill press is it was possible to clamp and also adjust the clearance on the quill.



That's exactly what I did to make my first basic milling machine out of a drill press. No boring or R8 though. Just a screw collar retainer on a Jacobs chuck. Served me well for many many many years.


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## LenVW (Jul 20, 2022)

We have to be creative to modify units. My KING Mini-Mill does have a drawbar and a 3/4 hp motor.

@jcdammeyer 
My DP should have the spindle bored to allow for a drawbar, the Jacobs chuck has popped out with even small amounts of drill chatter.

@Susquatch can you post a photo of your collar retainer ?
I may take that route.


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## Susquatch (Jul 20, 2022)

LenVW said:


> @Susquatch can you post a photo of your collar retainer ?
> I may take that route.



Here you are Len. I think your ability to do this depends on your quill dimensions more than anything else. Even if you can find a 33C Taper Chuck, you still need to thread the quill to accept the collar. The number on the chuck is "633", but I remember it being called a 33C. My memory is fading though.   

Note the C-Clip down inside the collar to hold it to the chuck. Also note the downright horrible threading job on the inside of the chuck......

If your quill accomodates it, maybe you can modify an existing chuck to take a collar...... 

One HUGE advantage of the chuck collar besides being a way to retain it, is that the collar can be used to easily remove and or install the chuck too.

The reflector tape on the chuck is for measuring RPM.


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## LenVW (Jul 20, 2022)

Thanks @Susquatch .
I will work on measuring the spindle and mating components.


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## jcdammeyer (Jul 20, 2022)

LenVW said:


> Thanks @Susquatch .
> I will work on measuring the spindle and mating components.


The only down side I can think of is that you'd have to do that to each piece of tooling right?  I had a bunch of MT3 mill holders etc that I bought at Busy Bee.

This was the way the Sears Drill Press clamped the quill.


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## LenVW (Jul 20, 2022)

Thanks John,
I am going to look into it and maybe design a QC arbour.
I did design industrial drivetrains for process equipment about 20 years ago.
There maybe a few ways to achieve the retainer.


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## Susquatch (Jul 20, 2022)

jcdammeyer said:


> The only down side I can think of is that you'd have to do that to each piece of tooling right?  I had a bunch of MT3 mill holders etc that I bought at Busy Bee.
> 
> This was the way the Sears Drill Press clamped the quill.
> View attachment 25089



Maybe I misunderstood. I thought @LenVW was concerned about keeping the drill chuck in the quill not clamping the quill. 

But I've been out in the sun and humidity all day so I'm not sure what I think about anything right now!


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## jcdammeyer (Jul 20, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Maybe I misunderstood. I thought @LenVW was concerned about keeping the drill chuck in the quill not clamping the quill.
> 
> But I've been out in the sun and humidity all day so I'm not sure what I think about anything right now!


Both I think...  Or maybe I mentioned clamping the quill.    The issue is more to do with milling with a drill press.  Can't use MT tooling because it falls out and could really hurt someone.  Unless you have a drawbar.  Similarly, if you can't tightly hold the Z the tool can pull into the work, jam or even break and that could be shrapnel also dangerous.

But then I've been mowing the lawn and after 45 minutes, half done, dripping wet and can barely breath.  So my head is also not on straight...


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## Susquatch (Jul 20, 2022)

jcdammeyer said:


> Both I think...  Or maybe I mentioned clamping the quill.    The issue is more to do with milling with a drill press.  Can't use MT tooling because it falls out and could really hurt someone.  Unless you have a drawbar.  Similarly, if you can't tightly hold the Z the tool can pull into the work, jam or even break and that could be shrapnel also dangerous.
> 
> But then I've been mowing the lawn and after 45 minutes, half done, dripping wet and can barely breath.  So my head is also not on straight...



Gotcha. Ya, I used my Beaver Drill press to do light duty milling for something like 30 years before I got my round column drill/mill about 10 years ago. Last year I finally got a BP clone. Its been a very long journey. 

The collar stops the chuck from coming off when you are milling and I have exactly the same Z-lock with a beefier handle to stop the cutter from pulling into the work. 

What we didn't talk about though is the bearings. My beaver also had side thrust bearings to hold the quill under high milling side loads. I'm sure I would have destroyed it 30 years ago without those bearings. If you don't have those side thrust bearings in your drill press, you might want to rethink the whole idea.


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## jcdammeyer (Jul 20, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> What we didn't talk about though is the bearings. My beaver also had side thrust bearings to hold the quill under high milling side loads. I'm sure I would have destroyed it 30 years ago without those bearings. If you don't have those side thrust bearings in your drill press, you might want to rethink the whole idea.


Good point.  No idea what is in my Sears Drill Press.  I don't use it for milling anymore as I have my House of Tools mill equivalent to the Grizzly G3616.  In hindsight I wish I'd bought the slightly larger G3617 version with the horizontal milling feature, longer table and longer head.  But space and money was an issue.
This photo was taken when I bought it and got it into the carport.  http://www.autoartisans.com/milton.htm
Now is fully CNC.


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## Susquatch (Jul 20, 2022)

N


jcdammeyer said:


> Good point.  No idea what is in my Sears Drill Press.  I don't use it for milling anymore as I have my House of Tools mill equivalent to the Grizzly G3616.  In hindsight I wish I'd bought the slightly larger G3617 version with the horizontal milling feature, longer table and longer head.  But space and money was an issue.
> This photo was taken when I bought it and got it into the carport.  http://www.autoartisans.com/milton.htm
> Now is fully CNC.



Nice machine! 

But I'm lost again. Why are you beefing up a drill press to mill with if you have a mill already?


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## jcdammeyer (Jul 20, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> N
> 
> 
> Nice machine!
> ...


Travel back in time to around 2000 to 2005.  Building the Gingery Hacksaw, Slip Roll and Gas Fired Foundry all to build the Gingery Lathe.  I converted the drill press to be what I called my mill-press.  Also used it to make things for my sailboat like an alternator and pulley bracket and dual belt pulley.  These two are from 2003.









So the mill-press got a lot of use.  But once I could afford it I bought a real mill.  But the mill-press still has a draw bar and I have occasionally used it when there's something set up on the mill that I don't want to change.


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## Tecnico (Jul 20, 2022)

PaulL said:


> Professionally I'm software engineer ..............
> But after moving electrons all day I like to get the rest of the atom going.



I was going through the earlier parts of this thread and had some thoughts....

I think you (@PaulL ) hit the bullseye there and it doesn't just apply to the software/electronics discipline.  I think it is the contrast from what the day job is, usually in front of a glowing screen or in a meeting room vs. hands on creating something tangible & useful, sometimes even using skills of the day job. Putting the creative side together with the hands on is satisfying/relaxing after a day's work!

In my case the machine tools are yak shaving for the end product which has been race cars, airplanes, motorcycles or just fixing things (better than new) after they break.  My day job has been Mechanical Engineer on things like military ocean sensing/automotive electronics/hand held electronics/food service equipment/oil patch slip rings etc. etc. etc.

From young, I always had the interest in making things which probably led me in the direction of the day job.  Growing up I always had the influence from people doing hands on things so it was natural.

/<ramble>

D


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## jcdammeyer (Jul 20, 2022)

Tecnico said:


> I was going through the earlier parts of this thread and had some thoughts....
> 
> I think you (@PaulL ) hit the bullseye there and it doesn't just apply to the software/electronics discipline.  I think it is the contrast from what the day job is, usually in front of a glowing screen or in a meeting room vs. hands on creating something tangible & useful, sometimes even using skills of the day job. Putting the creative side together with the hands on is satisfying/relaxing after a day's work!
> 
> ...


<ramble>
It is possible to use more than just the software tools even if the normal day is a lot of software.  For example this project used Protel 99SE for the schematic and PC board design.  

The first prototype was done with ALibre CAD sheet metal and I used my sheet metal tools to make the holder.  These LEDs and been done with a single strip alignment jig and hand soldered.





We decided we wanted more LEDs.  The chip design was changed to run more LED and run off 110VAC.  Again Protel 99SE to design and lay out the boards.
 The LEDs are dropped into the holes.




It used Alibre CAD for this mechanical design too.   A friend took the drawing and on his manual mill cut a plate with the angled slots.  This is laid on top of the rows of LEDs so they all angle out rather than sit straight.




These are then run through the wave solder tank and come out the other end perfectly aligned.

After the metal one,  the first three prototype holders for the longer strips were done by me on my mill in plastic each fixture about 15W.  The case on the left is the target enclosure donated by Seagrams during Expo86 originally holding Mercury Vapour lamps.




The final fixture used all SMD parts, machine assembled with pick and place and then the LEDs inserted and wave soldered with the alignment jig.




There are six strips covering 180 degrees.  Each of the columns is 15 degrees off center with a beam angle of 20 degrees so the light from the LEDs covers the entire 190 degrees .    These were installed summer of 2009.  No software written.  No microprocessor used.  Which was odd for me.y
To my knowledge, they have not yet been replaced.




/<ramble>


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