# Shop fluorescent to LED strategy



## PeterT (Jan 15, 2020)

I presently have 6 fluorescent fixtures with 48" tubes flush mounted on my ceiling which is fully drywalled. They are kind of centrally positioned & over electrical boxes/wire outlet that goes into attic area wiring. All lights activated with single wall switch.

If I understand correctly, I can buy replacement LED tubes like these, remove the ballast, perform some kind of (allegedly easy) internal bypass wiring, mount the LED tubes on the same tombstone pin ends & thus convert the fixture to LED. Is this generally correct? 
https://www.amazon.ca/Hyperikon-Flu...+T8+daylight+4000k&qid=1579152817&sr=8-9&th=1

I haven't been around too many installs to fully judge yet but I'm leaning towards daylight 4000K. I've done some single light bulb LED conversions in the house & 5000K just seems a bit too surgery room white for me. I like the brightness but not the color if that makes sense. So my thinking is if I change my mind or a tube goes, I can replace a bulb easily vs an all-in-one type fixture. 

So the brighter LED conversion to existing 12 bulbs may be sufficient & home free. But I want better localized light over my machines on a far wall because my crappy mag base spot lights are driving me batty. They are cheapo study lamps essentially converted with LED bulb. So now if I want to add a couple more LED fixtures to aforementioned LED conversion, now what? Do I need to buy a fluorescent fixture, wire it externally to the neighbor fixture through those knockout plugs on the end & do a similar LED conversion?
https://www.amazon.ca/Lithonia-Ligh...lourescent+fixture+48"&qid=1579152967&sr=8-12

I've seen dedicated LED fixtures that can be daisy chained between one another. They are designed to do that with nice end plugs & cord kits. But I don't get the impression it works the same trying to come off a converted fixture? So maybe an alternate strategy is replace all fluorescent fixtures up front, skip the ballast conversion & that gives me ability to add on where I need to? Maybe I'm looking at the wrong ones but they seem kind of spendy in dual tube 48"


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## Dabbler (Jan 16, 2020)

I bought some tubes for 12$ each at ecolighting.ca.  (these were overstock bulbs, and 'last generation' so they were a little dimmer than the current ones) They aren't the only ones doing this.   I get good advice from them on how to convert and which way is cheaper, etc.


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## John Conroy (Jan 16, 2020)

I bought the led tubes at Costco. They are a direct replacement for the flourescent tubes. They say direct replacement for T8 flourescent but my fixtures were all T12 and I used them anyway. It's been more than 2 years now and not a single failure. Leaving the ballast in causes about 10 watts more consumption than removing the ballast and  converting the fixture but it is so simple to just plug in new tubes with no wiring.

They are much brighter than the old tubes and start no matter how cold it is. I am very happy with them.

https://www.costco.ca/luminus-1.21-...led-tube-light,-6-pack.product.100471294.html


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## trlvn (Jan 16, 2020)

I need to replace a few old fluorescent fixtures and noticed a promotion from Lee Valley just the other day:

https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/home/lighting/worklights/76395-slimlight-led-fixture

Is $56 a good deal for a replacement fixture?  I would probably buy 4 or 5 of them and reposition a couple lights given how I'm using the shop space now.

Craig


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## Hruul (Jan 16, 2020)

I haven't tried the replacement LED lamps for fluorescent fixtures yet.  I have some LED strip fixtures from Costco in my garage to supplement the flourescent fixtures that I have.   I have been thinking about getting the Costco replacement lamps for the fluorescent ones.  I would definitely go with 4000K color temp max.  You likely will get slightly more light output from the 5000K but the color rendering of reds will be worse if that is a concern.

PeterT you could wire between the existing fixture and the new fixture through the knockout.  If it was a dedicated LED fixture it would have to be 120V at the end of the cord.  Some of the daisy chain LED fixtures have an external power supply that drop the voltage from 120V to 24V.  If your worried about having it electrically correct you would have to run the wire in conduit or armoured cable (AC90) between fixtures.  A standard 4' T8 lamp gives off 3050 lumens at the start. A standard T12 lamp gives off 3200 lumens.  

If you want more light than the fluorescent lamps make sure the lumen output of the lamps is rated higher than the current lamps.  If it is a replacement fixture that might not need to be as high, it depends on how the light is coming out of the fixture.

Also good idea to clean the reflector when you re-lamp the existing fixtures since that will help get more of the light to where it is useful.


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## Tom Kitta (Jan 16, 2020)

If anyone needs some T8 lamps LED I have bunch I can get rid of. They can be used in fixtures that were originally fluorescent - that is what I did and have 32 of them in my garage (by my last count).


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## Chicken lights (Jan 16, 2020)

I’ve bought about ten fixtures from Home Depot recently for about $40 each, then bought a couple 12 packs of led bulbs 

For whatever reason led bulbs work in non-led fixtures that are half or more the price for an LED fixture 

Works great and is cheap


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## CalgaryPT (Jan 16, 2020)

John Conroy said:


> Leaving the ballast in causes about 10 watts more consumption than removing the ballast and  converting the fixture but it is so simple to just plug in new tubes with no wiring.
> 
> They are much brighter than the old tubes and start no matter how cold it is. I am very happy with them.


I have four older fixtures in my shop. One ballast failed 6 mns. ago and a replacement cost more than a new fixture. So I tried an LED one from PA for the first time—the whole new fixture that is. I'm so happy with the brightness I almost went back and both three more. But I decided instead to replace them as they fail. Huge improvement. The tube only is a great option too; 10 watts is nothing. Remember the old days when we all had 150 watt incandescents? You could almost heat your garage with those.

I still struggle with task lightening, or at least I did until recently. I waited for a sale and bought one of those Milwaukee Rocket Lights. Super bright and portable. I use it for everything from turning to welding and in-between. I love LED lighting now.


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## PeterT (Jan 16, 2020)

Kind of drawn out vid, but another issue to be aware of re tubes vs fixture compatibility.


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## Crosche (Jan 17, 2020)

I installed one of these fixtures in my parent's laundry room and I can vouch that it is super bright and well built. The nice thing is that it just screws into a standard light socket. 

Garage Light, Garage Lighting 6000LM LED Garage Lights Ceiling Deformable Work Lights for Garage, Led Basement Lights, CRI 80 LED Shop Lights with 3 Adjustable Panels(No Motion Activated) https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B07WL7J9K9/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_gZDiEbZD0TJRP


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## PeterT (Jan 17, 2020)

In my case no sockets, just electrical boxes flush with ceiling drywall. But good to know those lights exit. Thanks


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## Johnwa (Jan 17, 2020)

I have a bit of a mix of LED tubes.  The first ones I picked up at Uncle Willys for <$10 a piece.  IIRC they were double ended.  120v across the ends.  
Since then I’ve bought of amazon 
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B075VK5MK9/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

When I bought they were selling 6 packs.  They are single ended, 120V across the 2 pins on one end and no connection at the other end.

Either way it’s a simple wiring change and the noisy ballasts are now gone.

I actually prefer the 5000k for shop lighting. They are supposed to be more light daylight so I don’t know why color rendering would be a problem.


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## Janger (Jan 17, 2020)

I was reading about these conversions by taking out the ballast and putting in new led tubes. By removing the ballast there would be 120V on the tombstone wiring connectors that hold the bulb. Typically these are not rated for 120V apparently. So just putting new bulbs like that would not be code. The author suggested changing the tombstone or keeping the ballast.


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## Dabbler (Jan 17, 2020)

PeterT said:


> Kind of drawn out vid, but another issue to be aware of re tubes vs fixture compatibility.



It complicates things, but they are starting to standardize - most tubes are single ended now - the 'old technology' was the double ended tube...



Janger said:


> So just putting new bulbs like that would not be code.



Sort of right and wrong.  My electrician tells me that when you rewire a florescent fixture from T12 to T9, it is the same: in invalidates your certification. 

 I rechecked with Westburne, and all fixtures sold in Canada have to have a 600V insulation rating, including the tombstones.   - was the commentator you quoted in the US?

As far as fire rating for these fixtures, it is all in the metal.

The guy at eco lighting that does 1000s of tube replacements each year says they are just fine and will pass inspection.  Eco lighting gets Intertec in to inspect and recertify all fixtures on a big job  - that recert cost about 400$ minimum.

So like anything, it depends.  I had this discussion with the guys at Westburne and they were only worried about current rating.  Apparently the 120V LEDs take about 100ma.  the connectors have to be rated at 2 amps, and they felt they were safe.  

The current cost is about 20$ per tube for refit, and 70$ for a top-shelf fixture.  I paid 38$ form PA on sale for some fixtures last year to try them out.  The 30 watt (single line of LEDs) are about twice as bright as a normal 2-tube 55 watt florescent fixture. if you replace the tubes in a double, youi get about 4 times the light of a florescent at 1/2 the power.

So it is kind of a wash.  If you want a specific colour temperature, you have to be very selective about what fixture you buy, which can cost more.  You can assure colour temperature cheaper by just buying the tubes and rewiring, but they aren't CSA certified any more, but can be for $$$.  If you aren't picky about colour, the cheapest certified fixture will do.


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## Janger (Jan 17, 2020)

Thanks John good info as usual. I believe it was some USA article I was reading.


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## PeterT (Jan 18, 2020)

John, I called EcoLighting & had a great conversation. I'm going to pop by their shop so I can get a better 'real life mode' feel for the light output/color/fixtures & add-on connectivity. They had an answer for every one of my questions so will be a good starting point. Thus far, tube conversion seems to be the preferred option (on my particular fixtures) but the possibility of a few add-on fixtures adds a few (minor) considerations to the mix. Another factor apparently is the vintage of fluorescent fixtures themselves, some are more and less amenable to conversion vs swapping in an LED fixture. So the 'answer' seems to kind of vary by each individuals needs.


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## Johnwa (Jan 18, 2020)

After Janger raised the concerns I did a bit of internet research.  I did find a few comments that the Leviton tombstones are not rated for 120V. The 600v rating seems to be from contact to ground.  It isn’t the contact to contact rating.  In a fluorescent fixture there shouldn’t be 120v contact to contact but there is when rewired for single ended LEDs.  One of the safety issues raised was that while inserting an LED tube it may be possible to short out the contacts.
I did find some tombstones on amazon that are said to be rated for LEDs.  They look a bit different from the ones in my fixtures.  The ad says they are approved by CE(Europe) and UL (US) but nothing about Canada.  I wasn’t prepared to buy a copy of the Canadian EC to see what it has to say.

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07CTLTPTF/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3UENWQOYWIPH9&psc=1


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## PeterT (Aug 24, 2021)

Seriously? Its been over a year since I posted? Well we happened to be doing some low level house reno's so I asked the electrician about my LED conversion. I bought a single power end LED kit from ECO to try a long time ago. It was definitely brighter, maybe a bit stark if you stared at it directly but running one within a bank of fluorescents is maybe not the best test. Anyways, when I called ECO about doing the rest, they were temporarily low on that model but mentioned the world has changed a bit since then. Double end power seems to be gaining momentum & possibly more LED bulbs to choose from in the future. Very similar wiring, remove the ballast etc. I bought his recommended 4000K, 6 fixtures (2 tubes each). Conversion is done and I'm just thrilled. Very pleasing, bright ambient light. Its like fluorescents on 3X steroids. I have better light visibility over my lathe than with my portable light off the headstock. Cost worked out to ~38$ each.


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## Tom O (Aug 24, 2021)

You can’t beat Led lighting


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## RobinHood (Aug 24, 2021)

Just hung 12 fixtures (6 per side) in the new machine shop area (about 36‘ by 20’ with 9’ ceiling). Pulled the ballasts in the used fixtures and went with 5K LED tubes. Best thing for lighting I have ever done - in the absence of natural sunlight.

Here are a couple of pictures:










Need to pull more electrical, then final insulation and wall covering with white paint. Should keep the place nice and bright.


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## George (Aug 25, 2021)

I watched a YouTube  video about how to switch to led tubes there’s lots of them, i then ordered a 10 pack for around $60 from eBay and replaced 2 x 3 tubes light enclosures, very very easy pull all the old wires and the ballast then hook up all of one end with + - and used quick couplers to link them all, straight in with 110v, much brighter instant on, no more flickering or buzzing, now I think I need sunglasses  there well worth it.
I also purchased 5 meters of 12v led tape lights off AliExpress for about $5 which I will use to make small lighting fixtures to use for closer lighting powered by old DC adaptors.


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## kevin.decelles (Aug 25, 2021)

I went with 5k (maybe higher) led (frosted) and I may dial it back (too bright almost , to the point it feels almost unnatural). Once you’re in and acclimatized it is ok (no sense of time though) but coming in through the overhead door on a sunny day really highlights how much “whiter” the led spectrum is.

That said, you can throw a 1/4” nut over your shoulder and turn around and find it 99/100 times. [emoji51]. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## kevin.decelles (Aug 25, 2021)

And [mention]RobinHood [/mention] , thank you, I showed the missus pictures of your shop and said “see……now leave me alone “

A visit this fall is on the agenda


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## RobinHood (Aug 25, 2021)

@George , those fixtures look nice as well. Could have been an option for us if we did not have 22 two tube fixtures from an auction…

So that’s the secret then @kevin.decelles : show pictures of other peoples’ shops to the better half to convince them that you need more stuff. Actually did this to my wife - showed her the video of the Conestoga College Shop tour - she was quite impressed (so was I of course)

For those of you who have not seen it, here it is:


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## PeterT (Aug 25, 2021)

I had to Google it - Kitchener! Wow what a nice facility.


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## RobinHood (Aug 25, 2021)

Yes, sorry, should have been more specific where Conestoga College is located. Thanks Peter.

…. and they are expanding to an additional 1/4 million sqft facility by next month; must be nice.


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## RobinHood (Aug 25, 2021)

kevin.decelles said:


> A visit this fall is on the agenda



Any time welcome.


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## Dabbler (Aug 26, 2021)

really nice light!


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