# Must have hand tools?



## Chicken lights (Dec 17, 2018)

What are some hand tools every hobbyist or pro needs? 

Scribe?
Transfer punches?
Quality caliper?
Are there machinist squares?

I always find myself wishing for a regular sized caliper that’s in inches. So I can measure a part without having to do the conversion from fraction to inches. 

As an example, I had some stainless already had precut holes for lights, with a caliper it would be faster and more accurate to measure 6” 3/8”.


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## kevin.decelles (Dec 17, 2018)

swarf brushes
telescoping pen magnet
throw away screw drivers - flat 
variety of hammers (brass, dead blow, rubber etc.)
T-handle hex keys (metric and imperial)

I usually keep a duplicate set of the required wrenches at each machine to handle any adjustments


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## PeterT (Dec 17, 2018)

Re calipers, are you wanting something like this with fractions display? All digital calipers will do decimal inch/metric with a button press, that's considered standard
http://www.leevalley.com/us/Hardware/page.aspx?p=66892&cat=1,43513,49782&ap=1

Yes there are machinist squares. Worth having because they are more accurate (or at least should be). Not just for layout work but for setting things up in the machines & checking squareness. There are all kinds, some with a raised block edge to reference off a surface, some are flat, T, square edge, beveled edge, sliding assembly, protractor head. How much money do you have? I bet I could put a good dent in it! LOL


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## Chicken lights (Dec 17, 2018)

PeterT said:


> Re calipers, are you wanting something like this with fractions display? All digital calipers will do decimal inch/metric with a button press, that's considered standard
> http://www.leevalley.com/us/Hardware/page.aspx?p=66892&cat=1,43513,49782&ap=1
> 
> Yes there are machinist squares. Worth having because they are more accurate (or at least should be). Not just for layout work but for setting things up in the machines & checking squareness. There are all kinds, some with a raised block edge to reference off a surface, some are flat, T, square edge, beveled edge, sliding assembly, protractor head. How much money do you have? I bet I could put a good dent in it! LOL


That’s a great price, considering it’s lee valley. Umm it doesn’t have to be digital, but for that price, why wouldn’t you get digital?

I figured $1-200 should get me a few things to step up a notch. 

A lot of my stuff is Snap On, I don’t really get into any Starret or more “machinist” type brands 

Thinking scribe, square, better center punch, calipers and transfer punches are in my future. Possibly some of the blue stuff machinists use 

Found a sweet deal on a drill press but I’m hoping no-one else sees it before I can get there


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## Janger (Dec 17, 2018)

scribe, center punch, felt marker (layout fluid substitute- it’s reallly nasty stuff solvents) that digital caliper is the iGaging one. I have one and it’s a good tool. The fraction display is handy. Ruler in 1/10ths and 1/50. Machinist squares. Decent drill bits.


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## YYCHM (Dec 17, 2018)

"that digital caliper is the iGaging one....The fraction display is handy"   iGaging eh.....Seriously have to get me one of those.

 Machinist squares. Decent drill bits. Are a must have.

I find a felt marker superior to machinist ink.  Cheaper to boot.


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## Janger (Dec 18, 2018)

A machinist combination set is a good tool too. I think again the iGaging set is good value (kms). The busy bee one I bought though is utter crap - all three pieces are way out of square. A carpenters square is much better. These aren’t even good enough for wood working. That’s something else don’t buy bad tools.


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## Downwindtracker2 (Dec 18, 2018)

The carbide pencil type scribers are great. While Lee Valley has nice ones, I've also seen them at discount tool stores, rock and gem shows ,and gun shows cheap. You will also need one of the classic scribers with an L shaped end. Electric motor bases are where I use it.  I have one of those large print 3-way electronic calipers, a KMS special. I've found that I have to keep a pack of batteries beside it. I bought some dollar store ones, they were one use only. opps.  The three way is handy when you have a" what size is it?" question, metric , imperial, or a common fraction size. But when it comes to measuring something, I seem to get better readings with a dial caliper. That too was a KMS special, but 27 years ago. The Chinese can do good stuff, I like them better than my Starrett dial calipers. Also on my bench is BB veriner  calipers, a real cheap one I use for scribing lines.


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## Dabbler (Dec 19, 2018)

OK I'll suggest some of the things that I think are missing.  

1-Keep an eye out for a good name brand vernier caliper - yes non-digital-read the lines variety.  Useful when your battery wears out and nearly impossible to put out of calibration.  Mine's a Mit bought new, but people are dumping them these days.
2-buy a cheap set of inside, outside and Hermaphrodite calipers.  they will get you a measurement when everything else fails.  And a scribing protractor (one or both ends is hardened)
3-ditto on the machinist's ruler -this is NOT a LeeValley or BusyBee or KMS but a REAL Mitutoye,B&S or Starret ruler that has deep etchings and proper satin finish.  a 6" is all you will need for hobby work.  Longer distances can be measured with your protractor ruler.  Until you are really close (like .030) you can use your ruler to make most of your measurements - then you break out the Vernier, and after you get closer, the Micrometer.
4-You can buy a 3 or 4 inch offshore machinist square that will meet most of your needs for along time for about 8 bucks - 5 on sale.
5 I bought a Mitutoyo combination square set when I first started out - my first purchase after my lathe.  I have never regretted it.  Quality and accuracy. (too bad not 'affordability'.  A starret will cost you just over half and will serve well) -- don't repeat Janger's error.  they all look the same but the off brand ones are ALL junk. If you have to economize just buy the combo head and ruler.  the Protractor head and the centering heads don't get used much.
6-a good offshore 0-1" micrometer.  They seem to work as well as the big 3, but will wear out faster.  Gives you time to buy a top of the line one.  Make sure it has a standard with it.


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## gsg9.ca (Dec 19, 2018)

Safety glasses and ear plugs.   Those should be number 2 on your list.   Number one is a case for each.    I can testify that tinnitus is horribly annoying and you don't want to get it.   I got a wicked deal on a pair of Wiley's 3 years back.   They're still impeccable and crystal clear. The instant they come off my face they're straight into the protective bag. 

I'd suggest a good quality hack saw.  Sooner or later your going to need to cut something and the wood saw wont do.  Then get a good selection of blades and a case or box for them so they don't get lost trashed ( the Lennox stuff is quite nice )

A few good files will make your life easier.   

Next on my shopping list is a real deburing tool.    I'm fed up of slashing myself to ribbons with makeshift substitutes.


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## Chicken lights (Dec 21, 2018)

Dabbler said:


> OK I'll suggest some of the things that I think are missing.
> 
> 1-Keep an eye out for a good name brand vernier caliper - yes non-digital-read the lines variety.  Useful when your battery wears out and nearly impossible to put out of calibration.  Mine's a Mit bought new, but people are dumping them these days.
> 2-buy a cheap set of inside, outside and Hermaphrodite calipers.  they will get you a measurement when everything else fails.  And a scribing protractor (one or both ends is hardened)
> ...


There’s a 6” Mitutoyo ruler on amazon for $25, seem like the quality you recommend?
https://www.amazon.ca/Mitutoyo-182-...ocphy=9000995&hvtargid=pla-479255122284&psc=1


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## Dabbler (Dec 21, 2018)

it would do - but - you are way better off with a tenths ruler... They can be ordered for around that price from ACT.

[edit]
This one sill serve you better
https://www.amazon.ca/Mitutoyo-182-...P4E68B4ZCC9&psc=1&refRID=WFABQ4MY5P4E68B4ZCC9


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## turner (Dec 21, 2018)

OK I usually don't chime in but I can't help myself, an optical center punch. Once you use one you will always go for it before the standard punch. I think mine was just over   $100 some yrs back. A small 1" x 2" machinist Square is another of my favorites. Ussually using it after I make something to check Square. It keeps me humble.


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## YYCHM (Dec 21, 2018)

turner said:


> OK I usually don't chime in but I can't help myself, an optical center punch. Once you use one you will always go for it before the standard punch. I think mine was just over   $100 some yrs back. A small 1" x 2" machinist Square is another of my favorites. Ussually using it after I make something to check Square. It keeps me humble.



Please chime in more often and help us less experienced make better purchasing decisions.

" optical center punch"??

Can you post a link to such a device please..


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## Dabbler (Dec 22, 2018)

cool.  I've always wanted one!


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## John Conroy (Dec 22, 2018)

I have found KBC Tools to be a great source. Free shipping on orders over $375. Ask them for a free copy of their giant paper catalog, it can keep me entertained for hours. They carry the Mitutoyo rules in 1/2" wide tempered steel and 3/4" wide, more rigid, stainless. And in all the different combinations of graduations. Most of us of a certain age, who still think in inches prefer the type Dabbler mentioned with 10th and 100ths of an inch. Mitutoyo does one better, the model Dabbler linked to on Amazon also shows 1mm and .5mm graduations on the opposite side of the ruler. And they are cheaper at KBC.

https://www.kbctools.ca/default.asp...emcode=1-808-182207&catlist=12750&parent=8901

https://www.kbctools.ca/default.aspx?page=item+detail&itemcode=1-808-182107


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## John Conroy (Dec 22, 2018)

" optical center punch"??

Can you post a link to such a device please..[/QUOTE]

https://www.kbctools.ca/products/HAND TOOLS/PUNCHES @@26 CHISELS/CENTER PUNCHES/1353.aspx

And speaking of punches, a set of trasfer punches is a "must have" item as well.


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## Janger (Dec 22, 2018)

Another one. http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=45502&cat=42311
not too expensive. Be a good little project to make but I'm not certain about the optical shaft. How make the lens and very careful polishing?


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## Johnwa (Dec 22, 2018)

I’ve seen an optical cp project.  He roughly shaped the lens on the lathe, then a quick pass with a propane torch to get it smooth.


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## historicalarms (Dec 22, 2018)

gsg9.ca said:


> Safety glasses and ear plugs.   Those should be number 2 on your list.   Number one is a case for each.    I can testify that tinnitus is horribly annoying and you don't want to get it.   I got a wicked deal on a pair of Wiley's 3 years back.   They're still impeccable and crystal clear. The instant they come off my face they're straight into the protective bag.
> 
> I'd suggest a good quality hack saw.  Sooner or later your going to need to cut something and the wood saw wont do.  Then get a good selection of blades and a case or box for them so they don't get lost trashed ( the Lennox stuff is quite nice )
> 
> ...



   I concur with the eye protection being first on the list. I lost an eye some years ago at the start of my hobby machining era (not from machining tho) and with only one left I became very cognizant of the importance of that one eye...I  have at least a 1/2 dozen of the full face shield hoods in my shop, almost within arms length at any time and I don't even pick up a hammer without putting a shield on first. If you still have two eyes...keep it that way because if you ever go down to a single one there is no "second chance".


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## DPittman (Dec 22, 2018)

Johnwa said:


> then a quick pass with a propane torch to get it smooth


Now that's smart! I've been hoeing and humming about making one of these myself but the optical component has me scared a bit.


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## Chicken lights (Dec 22, 2018)

Stopped and got a couple things. At the bottom is a Starett scribe. I’m not sure on the made in China transfer punches 

Thanks for the advice fellas


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## Brian H (Dec 23, 2018)

That looks like a very handy square set.


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## Dabbler (Dec 23, 2018)

You will like the Soba tools.  they are very well made, as a rule. I have 2 of those Igauging calipers, and they have served me very well.

Just a note - between projects, save the clear plastic packaging from your battery, and make a disk to store the caliper with the disc disconnecting the battery.  If not, you batteries will die in under a half of a year, with it, I get a couple of years out of each CR2032 battery


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## Tom O (Dec 23, 2018)

I just go to princess auto and buy a pack of them, a few years supply!


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## Dabbler (Dec 23, 2018)

I find that discount batteries usually come pre-discharged.  Very convenient!


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## PeterT (Dec 24, 2018)

Always check the expiry date on discount batteries. I've gotten some killer deals on good brand names via Ebay but they might be say 4 years into a 5 year shelf life. So read the fine print. Or if there is no fine print, that might explain the price. Having said that I have gone beyond the date by a long shot. Batteries are just like tools, sometimes you get what you pay for. And sometimes not. I have the discharging equipment from RC to be able to quantify this stuff & I've concluded basically anything goes. Sometimes store bought cells with zippy names are marginally better than generics. Or more the case, 20% better maH capacity but 200% the price, so you do the math. 

I wont buy crappy digital calipers anymore. I figure its better to starve them so they eventually go back to the drawing board & make better ones LOL. Having said that they seem to be improving. A while back most every knock off had this same problem. Now many are decent. Not Mitutoyo decent but better. The trick is how to know beforehand. Its virtually impossible.


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## DPittman (Dec 24, 2018)

PeterT said:


> I wont buy crappy digital calipers anymore.


Can you suggest any brand names that are decent in your opinion that are between Mitutoyo and crappy?  I bought a Crappy Tire caliper (I think for $24) and then dropped it and was glad I didn't have an expensive one.  So I bought another.  Maybe I don't know what I'm missing!?


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## John Conroy (Dec 24, 2018)

I ordered a Mitutoyo digital caliper (haven't received it yet) on Amazon. I have bought some cheap ones and they are a disappointment as Peter said.  I use Mitutoyo  calipers at work and there is no comparison to the Accusize (cheap) ones I have at home. There are lots of counterfeit ones around but the reviews here say it is a genuine Mit. Of course I can always send it back if it's a fake. Not much more money than a cheap caliper.

https://www.amazon.ca/FidgetGear-Mi...1545671549&sr=8-1&keywords=fidgetgear+caliper


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## PeterT (Dec 24, 2018)

Asimeto might fit that bill. I don't have the 6" conventional but I bought a hook caliper that looked to be closely resembling a Mitutoyo design wise. It seems to be 'in-between' quality, not Mitutoyo silky smooth, but not junk. And from what I have found thus far, didn't eat batteries. Watch for sales & shop around if you are not in a hurry. Some of the machinist tooling places carry the line but as below, prices vary. They also make a big digit display in some calipers which is nice.

https://www.amazon.ca/Asimeto-73070...1545671544&sr=1-1&keywords=asimeto+6"+caliper

https://www.traverscanada.com/6-cal...er/p/57-020-704/?catalog=170101&target=bottom


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## Downwindtracker2 (Dec 24, 2018)

With the reviews, it seems to be Mitutoyo or Mitutoyo,  for electronic calipers . Even the Starretts are come in a distant  second place. As I said ,I just keep a pack of batteries handy, it's simple to remember 357


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## Johnwa (Dec 24, 2018)

Other than the battery issue how are the Mits better than the cheap ones?


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## DPittman (Dec 24, 2018)

John Conroy said:


> I ordered a Mitutoyo digital caliper (haven't received it yet) on Amazon. I have bought some cheap ones and they are a disappointment as Peter said.  I use Mitutoyo  calipers at work and there is no comparison to the Accusize (cheap) ones I have at home. There are lots of counterfeit ones around but the reviews here say it is a genuine Mit. Of course I can always send it back if it's a fake. Not much more money than a cheap caliper.
> 
> https://www.amazon.ca/FidgetGear-Mi...1545671549&sr=8-1&keywords=fidgetgear+caliper


I hope you let us know what you think of it.  I think even I could splurge for that.


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## kevin.decelles (Dec 24, 2018)

John Conroy said:


> I ordered a Mitutoyo digital caliper (haven't received it yet) on Amazon. I have bought some cheap ones and they are a disappointment as Peter said. I use Mitutoyo calipers at work and there is no comparison to the Accusize (cheap) ones I have at home. There are lots of counterfeit ones around but the reviews here say it is a genuine Mit. Of course I can always send it back if it's a fake. Not much more money than a cheap caliper.
> 
> https://www.amazon.ca/FidgetGear-Mi...1545671549&sr=8-1&keywords=fidgetgear+caliper



That looks like the set I have but I know I paid more. I'll compare when I get home today

I like my mitutoyo set fine, especially the absolute feature 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Janger (Dec 24, 2018)

Like Dabbler In general I’ve found the iGaging stuff to be pretty good. It’s less money but not junk. I have a digital caliper, a depth gauge, and dro from them. Busy bee carries the brand. It’s not as nice as the mitutoyo but money needs to stretch.


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## Janger (Dec 24, 2018)

John Conroy said:


> I ordered a Mitutoyo digital caliper (haven't received it yet) on Amazon. I have bought some cheap ones and they are a disappointment as Peter said.  I use Mitutoyo  calipers at work and there is no comparison to the Accusize (cheap) ones I have at home. There are lots of counterfeit ones around but the reviews here say it is a genuine Mit. Of course I can always send it back if it's a fake. Not much more money than a cheap caliper.
> 
> https://www.amazon.ca/FidgetGear-Mi...1545671549&sr=8-1&keywords=fidgetgear+caliper



This is half or less of the typical price for a mitutoyo. Given the seller I’m skeptical it’s genuine. Let us know if it’s good when you get it John.


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## DPittman (Dec 24, 2018)

Y





Janger said:


> This is half or less of the typical price for a mitutoyo. Given the seller I’m skeptical it’s genuine. Let us know if it’s good when you get it John.


Ya I was a bit skeptical too but I figured if it's good enough for John AND I can afford it....I had better jump at it!  So I ordered one too!  We will see.


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## YYCHM (Dec 24, 2018)

How is the SOBA branded stuff?  I seem to be bringing a lot of that stuff home from BB these days. 
Machinist squares, 1-2-3 blocks (I think), boring head, rotary table etc etc.


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## kevin.decelles (Dec 24, 2018)

Soba has done well by me so far. I have some smaller items but recently bought the 6" (actually 5.92" ) rotary table and it is a soba and was a pleasant surprise 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dabbler (Dec 24, 2018)

Soba is a cut above the typical offshore stuff.  Don't expect name brand performance out of it, the metals are usually softer than they should be, but they will serve well, and are accurate.  

I just won't try to push the limits on a Soba tool.  for a square and similar tools, a home machinist won't see any difference.


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## Downwindtracker2 (Dec 24, 2018)

I picked up an 2" angle machinist vise at BB. The display was Groz, but the packaged one was Soba. They said they were the same. I think if it's got a brand name, the quality might be better.


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## Dabbler (Dec 25, 2018)

The Soba one won't be too far out.  Groz is okay, but not quite as good as Soba.


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## John Conroy (Dec 25, 2018)

I'll definitely post here when I receive the caliper.

Meanwhile Santa put this under the tree for me this year.(my wife checked my wish list at KBC)


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## Downwindtracker2 (Dec 25, 2018)

I use to highlight things in the Lee Valley catalogue.


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## Chicken lights (Jan 2, 2019)

Dabbler said:


> 6-a good offshore 0-1" micrometer.  They seem to work as well as the big 3, but will wear out faster.  Gives you time to buy a top of the line one.  Make sure it has a standard with it.






I have this little guy, Crowne and Sharp?

What’s a standard?


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## PeterT (Jan 2, 2019)

More than likely Brown & Sharp. A good name. 

A standard is a precision length of rod that you calibrate your micrometer to. It would be 1.000" +/- some accurate tolerance for a 0-1 micrometer. So after careful cleaning, if your mic was reading under like 0.9995 or over 1.0005 you adjust it to read 1.0000" Some guys feel its important to calibrate to a mid range, but that's another discussion.


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## Downwindtracker2 (Jan 2, 2019)

It's Brown and Sharp , better than Starrett,. Early ones were made in Rhode Island ,later ones in Switzerland .


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## John Conroy (Jan 2, 2019)

Janger said:


> This is half or less of the typical price for a mitutoyo. Given the seller I’m skeptical it’s genuine. Let us know if it’s good when you get it John.




You were right John, I received the "Mitutoyo" caliper and using information in the 2 links below as well as a genuine one from work I have determined it is a counterfeit. I have submitted a return request to Amazon, we'll see what happens.







__
		https://orcinus24x5.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F85895171143

It is a pretty good fake, the only thing that prevents me from keeping it is the play in the jaws as shown in the Isik's Tech video.

This is a list things that confirm it is a fake.
-the label on the back of the head says "Serlal No instead of "Serial No"
-The label on the back says "U.S. PAt" instead of "U.S Pat."
-The locking knob can be removed on the fake, this is not true of a genuine one.
-the least significant digit is half the size of the others where it the same size as the others on a genuine one.
-the serial number on the caliper is different than the one on the inspection document.
-there is about 1 mm of slop between the jaws like Isak's video shows, the genuine one has no play.
-the access holes on the plastic cover do not line up correctly with the adjustment screws on the caliper head
-the instructions on the label on the back say you need to hold the "zero/abs" button for 2 seconds to switch from "inc" to "abs" modes. this one switches instantly. The genuine one at work functions the way the label describes.

Some other observations: The outer cardboard sleeve on this one has very faded looking graphics like is described Isik's video. There is no battery with the caliper. It does not have silky smooth movement like the genuine one at work.

Here you can see
-the label on the back of the head says "Serlal No instead of "Serial No"





Here you can see
-the least significant digit is half the size of the others where it the same size as the others on a genuine one.





Here you can see
-the access holes on the plastic cover do not line up correctly with the adjustment screws on the caliper head





Here you can see
-the serial number on the caliper is different than the one on the inspection document.





I think this is actually the best cheap caliper I have ever seen. If they quit trying to sell them as counterfeits I might actually buy one and pay $65 for it. but I hate liars so I'm going to return it.


*I know, I know, you only get what you pay for, right?*


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## DPittman (Jan 2, 2019)

John Conroy said:


> You were right John, I received the "Mitutoyo" caliper and using information in the 2 links below as well as a genuine one from work I have determined it is a counterfeit. I have submitted a return request to Amazon, we'll see what happens.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Damn liars!  Ooo that makes me mad!  I'm not surprised of course but I'm always hoping for honesty.  I ordered one also but haven't received mine yet.  I guess all I really am hoping for is an improvement over my Canadian Tire calipers.  But just on principle I should return them as soon as I get them.

I have a dial test indicator that I ordered through Amazon and it took some time to arrive (slow boat from China). Pictured is what I received. It's a "MitutDgD". That part is maybe forgiveable but what is not is " Made in Japan". Liars!  
However, the good news is it seems pretty good.  I compared mine


 to a borrowed top quality one and although my counterfeit did not seem quite as smooth, I consistently got the same readings as the quality instrument. LOL!  Mine was also dirt cheap.

Don


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## Chicken lights (Jan 2, 2019)

Is there a standard size to buy?

Do you measure in the middle or end to end?


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## Dabbler (Jan 2, 2019)

Don, "ThisOldTony" did a really good video on the "MitutDyD" test indicator.  worth watching, even if you are happy with it.

Chicken, any standard will do.  they are just a precise rod (at 23 degrees C mind you) - similar to a Jo block, but much cheaper.  As long as your caliper matches the stated size, you are good.  Note if you have a 13" Mic, you need a 13" standard.  - the bigger ones wander more easily than a 0-1".


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## PeterT (Jan 2, 2019)

There is a Mitutoyo sale on at Thomas Skinner right now. Not sure how that is stacking up to other dealers but I know for a fact they carry legit Mitutoyo. Sometimes its a general Mitutoyo sale that extends to other machinery suppliers so check around, FOB vs. shipping etc. 
http://www.thomasskinner.com/contentonly.aspx?file=specials/Top Picks FALL WINTER 2018 Thomas Skinner.pdf


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## PeterT (Jan 2, 2019)

The battery covers are noticeably different. 
Note where the A of Absolute starts relative to the swirl & other graphics anomalies. I'm kind of amazed by this actually because fakers must have access to digital scanning hardware, so it must be the width of their computer screen at magnification, so how do you screw this up? I mean if you are going to deceive, at least take some pride in your work man! LOL


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## DPittman (Jan 2, 2019)

PeterT said:


> I mean if you are going to deceive, at least take some pride in your work man! LOL


Deceivers have no pride, they just do whatever it takes to deceive.  
 I gotta say tho they "look" like purty good replicas, at least on the surface.


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## DPittman (Jan 2, 2019)

Dabbler said:


> Don, "ThisOldTony" did a really good video on the "MitutDyD" test indicator. worth watching, even if you are happy with it.


 I will go watch that video now thanks, but I'm sensing I won't be so happy with my fake dti afterwards!


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## John Conroy (Jan 2, 2019)

At KBC they are on sale now for $150 with another $20 off for spending over $150. So the price is $130 plus $8.95 shipping. I might just go for that.

https://www.kbctools.ca/default.asp...emcode=1-808-500196&catlist=10199&parent=9154


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## John Conroy (Jan 2, 2019)

Same price at KMS as at Thomas Skinner

https://m.kmstools.com/mitutoyo-6-absolute-digimatic-caliper-93067


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## PeterT (Jan 2, 2019)

DPittman said:


> I will go watch that video now thanks!


post the link, I couldn't find it


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## PeterT (Jan 2, 2019)

Dabbler said:


> any standard will do.  they are just a precise rod (at 23 degrees C mind you) - similar to a Jo block, but much cheaper.  As long as your caliper matches the stated size, you are good.  Note if you have a 13" Mic, you need a 13" standard.  - the bigger ones wander more easily than a 0-1".



So this is another route to consider. If you are ever contemplating setting up angles one day like with a sine bar, accurately measuring slots, keyways, granite plate layout / height comparisons & many other applications... then a gage block set is nice to have. I might be wrong but I think you could use that just as well to calibrate your measurement devices & it would span a larger range. A lot of times standards come with mics so this issue doesn't arise, but if you have to buy one anyways....?  I'm not advocating these guys, just showing a typical offshore set.
https://www.accusizetools.com/81-pc-set-steel-gage-block-set/

I read an opinion somewhere that there is nothing magical about using a 1" standard on a 1" mic, particularly if you are looking for accurate measurements at say 0.2" or 20% of its travel. The screw may be deviated or worn such that it may well be dialed in at its near max range extremity but not necessarily in the mid range range where you commonly use it. They were saying you could just as easily put a 0.2500" gage block in the jaws & adjust the barrel on that basis so its reading 0.2500". Makes sense to me but I'm not really that up to speed on metrology. Or maybe that was a diagnostic check that maybe the mic was no longer to be trusted?


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## Dabbler (Jan 3, 2019)

My aging brain!  First this was a video on a MituDyD_* test indicator*_... oops second, it was Dudley Toolwright... - must be getting really old!






So I remember that AvE did a review on the Mitutoyo clone that is very entertaining...


----------



## DPittman (Jan 3, 2019)

PeterT said:


> post the link, I couldn't find it


I haven't been able to find it yet either.


----------



## historicalarms (Jan 3, 2019)

I am wondering if the fake Mit's are coolant fluid usable/repellant like the "real ones claim, probably not.

    All of the "good things being said about the "real ones" reminded me of the only one I ever owned...I dropped it once on the cement floor...never to work again...and I have several CT/BB models that have served me well for a # of yrs, one of the CT models has been dropped more than a couple of times and shows no loss of accuracy at all. I had one CT specimen that was out .0005 from the rest continually so it is regulated to "outside rough service " work that requires "less than optimal accuracy.


----------



## Dabbler (Jan 3, 2019)

as I said in #60 i misremembered Dudley Toolwright's video...  

However AVE does a very good analysis of the MitutDyD clone - despite his down  home language...


----------



## DPittman (Jan 3, 2019)

So when trying to equip your shop with the "must have" basic tools and equipment,  price is always a consideration.  Here is an example of how value priced items are occasionally just fine for some of us.

I have  4 Chinese micrometers bought from either Princess Auto or Amazon.  My brother offered giving me a 0-1" Mitutoyo Mic that he had doubles of.  While I already had my Chinese version, I quickly jumped at the offer as it would be the only real piece of Mitutoyo I had! 
  They both seem to measure exactly the same and both operate smoothly.  I actually prefer the style of graduations on the Chinese Mic over the Mitutoyo, but that may be just cuz I'm more used to it.


----------



## Chicken lights (Jan 3, 2019)

John Conroy said:


> " optical center punch"??
> 
> Can you post a link to such a device please..


And speaking of punches, a set of trasfer punches is a "must have" item as well.[/QUOTE]
Do you whack a transfer punch like a regular center punch? Or just hard enough to mark it, then use a center punch to dimple it after?


----------



## DPittman (Jan 3, 2019)

Chicken lights said:


> And speaking of punches, a set of trasfer punches is a "must have" item as well.


Do you whack a transfer punch like a regular center punch? Or just hard enough to mark it, then use a center punch to dimple it after?[/QUOTE]


----------



## DPittman (Jan 3, 2019)

I just tap it enough to mark it then as you say centre punch afterwards.  My transfer punches are not particularly hard and I don't want to distort the centre marking point.


----------



## Tom O (Jan 3, 2019)

I bought some transfer punches from Princess Auto and found them not tempered that good that was putting a  dro on my mill ( cast iron ) but they seem good for softer material though I still think they are a must have.


----------



## Downwindtracker2 (Jan 3, 2019)

I've read that the Chinese mics are a copies of the Swiss Etalon. I gave my Chinese set to my son before I ever even used them when I bought a Polish VIS set. And the Swiss Etalon are way beyond my budget. So I can't say one way or another. 

That Mituyoyo mic looks like a friction thimble instead of the much more common and less expensive ratchet.  NICE ! My VIS ones are friction thimbles , and after I cleaned and adjusted them, I really like them. That's likely why I was able to get them for a good price at a pawn shop. 

As much as I've always used Mituyoyo mics at work, there are many other brands as good. We've seen a Brown and Sharp on this thread.  I have an old Starrett, and  a nice Japanese Kanon, the VIS ones, and a Lufkin set. Lufkins were liked better than Starretts.


----------



## Chicken lights (Jan 4, 2019)

Are these considered “decent”? They came with a box of tools I bought

I can’t tell if M42 is HSS or cobalt? 

They say made in the USA anyway


----------



## DPittman (Jan 4, 2019)

Chicken lights said:


> View attachment 3948View attachment 3949
> Are these considered “decent”? They came with a box of tools I bought
> 
> I can’t tell if M42 is HSS or cobalt?
> ...


The fact that they are made in the USA just about assures that they are of decent quality.  Snap On brand is usually always good quality (but terribly overpriced in my opinion).  M42 is HSS


----------



## Chicken lights (Jan 4, 2019)

DPittman said:


> The fact that they are made in the USA just about assures that they are of decent quality.  Snap On brand is usually always good quality (but terribly overpriced in my opinion).  M42 is HSS


I agree, but (usually!) Snap On is leaps and bounds ahead of their competition. And their warranty is great. I’ve easily had 20 of the same pin punch warrantied over the years. I had an old 1/2” ratchet from the ‘60s, the dealer gave me $25 off when I traded it in on a new one. 

I look at it that I’m paying for the warranty up front. As in, that $35 socket probably cost them $10 (if that). But I’ll break it 10 times over the life of me owning it 

Anything like a welder or a hoist is just gonna be rebranded stuff, heck even those drill bits are probably identical to another brand, but stamped to say Snap On instead


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## Downwindtracker2 (Jan 4, 2019)

Drill index boxes seem to come in two patterns, the Huot and the one like your Snap-on. I have some like your Snap-On with  Union -Butterfield , their competitor Cleveland, and Canadian Tire tabs on them. The Canadian Tire one, it was just the box, I filled it with Butterfield cobalt .  Who knows what manufacturer made yours. When they are that colour, they are usually a step up.

Starrett and Proto sell really nice pin punches.


----------



## RobinHood (Jan 4, 2019)

Downwindtracker2 said:


> I've read that the Chinese mics are a copies of the Swiss Etalon.


That sure looks to be the case...






The Etalon has a friction thimble whereas the Chinese one has a ratchet. Both screw threads seem to run very smooth.


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## RobinHood (Jan 4, 2019)

For years i used 6” Canadian Tire Calipers - they were very reliable. Then i came across a set of Fowler 6” ones: what a difference. Battery lasts much longer than in the CT one and it is much smoother.

I was looking for an 8” one and found this...





$65 on sale at Princess Auto of all places. They are even smoother than the Fowlers. PA seems to have different lines of calipers. The cheapest ones are pretty crusty. Pro.Point seems way better.

This opinion is based on the fact that i have never owned a set of Mitutoyos. Perhaps if i had, i would give all three away...

Some day.


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## John Conroy (Jan 5, 2019)

I have found the Pro Point line of tools at PA to be of pretty good quality, certainly much better than the Powerfist stuff. But of course that comes with a higher price. Time will tell if people can stop thinking of every tool from PA as junk.


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## kevin.decelles (Jan 5, 2019)

Ive found that the quality of Canadian tire tools went down as princess auto went up (pro point)

I've abused some pro point sockets on larger work and have always walked away amazed they held up

I'll take 40 year old barn-find auction wrenches any day though...... dame they made good stuff back then


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## DPittman (Jan 5, 2019)

kevin.decelles said:


> I'll take 40 year old barn-find auction wrenches any day though...... dame they made good stuff back then


Yes I'm often surprised at the excellent quality tools that were available to the average man way back then.  Nowadays it seems the "average" man can only afford poor quality tools.  My farming brothers have a few hand tools inherited from our father from eons ago and I'm sure I could not afford to buy similar quality today if I could find them!  One example is a set of ancient old adjustable reamers, man are they beautiful!  My father was just a poor farmer but tools then we're of top quality, not cheap I'm sure but they were affordable for the person that needed them!


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## Downwindtracker2 (Jan 5, 2019)

No, they weren't. I'm old enough to remember when buying a socket set hurt. In the early '80s, a screaming deal at McLeods (sp) $49.99 for a 3/8" drive S-K  set.  In fact buying good tools was a carefully considered decision.


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## kevin.decelles (Jan 5, 2019)

I remember a McLeods in my home town......


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## Johnwa (Jan 5, 2019)

When I was at PA the other day I saw that one of their calipers had a solar cell. Small solar cells seem to work on calculators so it might be the answer to the battery problem.


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## John Conroy (Jan 8, 2019)

kevin.decelles said:


> Ive found that the quality of Canadian tire tools went down as princess auto went up (pro point)
> 
> I've abused some pro point sockets on larger work and have always walked away amazed they held up
> 
> ...



I still have my Dad's old wrenches that he bought in the 1940's. Made by Gray Tools in Canada with a couple of Craftsman wrenches thrown in (made in the USA). They are not pretty but are great quality compared the ones you buy from China today. Of course there are no metric wrenches in this set. LOL


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## Downwindtracker2 (Jan 8, 2019)

I find deep offsets to be very handy, much more so than the standard combinations. I pick them up at the fleamarket when I see them.


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## Tom O (Jan 8, 2019)

I’d like to increase the parallels I have to include adjustable and wavy.


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## Chicken lights (Jan 8, 2019)

If we talking wrenches, those are most of my imperial ones. The metric ones are in other drawers


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## Chicken lights (Jan 13, 2019)

PeterT said:


> Re calipers, are you wanting something like this with fractions display? All digital calipers will do decimal inch/metric with a button press, that's considered standard
> http://www.leevalley.com/us/Hardware/page.aspx?p=66892&cat=1,43513,49782&ap=1


Not to complain....but can these be calibrated to only measure down to 1/16”s? I really don’t need to measure in 1/64s or 1/128s, even 1/32 is too precise 

I’m back on the road and nowhere near the instructions they came with


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## Janger (Jan 13, 2019)

I think really cheap calipers might only show 1/16 or 1/32. Try princess. Or you could go for a mechanical caliper -vernier- with a coarse scale. I have one from the hardware store like that.


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## Janger (Jan 13, 2019)

Janger said:


> I think really cheap calipers might only show 1/16 or 1/32. Try princess. Or you could go for a mechanical caliper -vernier- with a coarse scale. I have one from the hardware store like that.


 Are you in Calgary? If you want you could have this one. I don’t use it or need it.


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## Chicken lights (Jan 13, 2019)

Janger said:


> Are you in Calgary? If you want you could have this one. I don’t use it or need it.


Thank you very much, but no I’m based in Ontario

That’s a generous offer!


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## Crankit (Jan 22, 2019)

Travers Canada has a PEC brand forged 4-piece combination square set on sale for $196 and a bunch of dial indicators on sale too

......Cheers Wayne


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## YYCHM (Jan 22, 2019)

Some one please point me in the direction of a decent tap and die set.  The one I have sucks big time.


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## PeterT (Jan 22, 2019)

Crankit said:


> Travers Canada has a PEC brand forged 4-piece combination square set on sale for $196 and a bunch of dial indicators on sale too
> 
> ......Cheers Wayne



Check against KBC & others. I shop Travers occasionally but generally find typically higher priced except when they have a 'great' sale. Another weird thing is you might actually see it on Amazon (fulfilled by Travers) but sometimes better shipping terms/cost if on Prime.


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## Crankit (Jan 22, 2019)

PeterT said:


> Check against KBC & others. I shop Travers occasionally but generally find typically higher priced except when they have a 'great' sale. Another weird thing is you might actually see it on Amazon (fulfilled by Travers) but sometimes better shipping terms/cost if on Prime.



I goofed the price...$260 for the hardened set.....$196 for cast version. KBC wants $306 for hardened set. I got a Starrett setup off Ebay for a decent price and if I was looking again for a set I would definitely look at the PEC brand


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## John Conroy (Jan 23, 2019)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> Some one please point me in the direction of a decent tap and die set.  The one I have sucks big time.



I find that a set is a waste of money as I've only ever used less than half the taps and dies in the Imperial set I've owned for 40 years. I've been collecting metric taps and dies over the years and i just order the common sizes fron KBC Tools. The KBC brand  one are usually made by TMX in Poland and very high quality. They come on sale quite often. Don't bother with Irwin or other chain store brand stuff, they are mostly "high carbon steel" and pretty much only good for chasing threads, not making new ones. You only want to buy  high speed steel if you want taps that work well. For dies I only buy round dies, the hex shaped ones are only meant for thread chasing..


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## Tom O (Jan 23, 2019)

I’ve started to buy them in sets of 3 so you can bottom tap a hole.


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## Janger (Jan 23, 2019)

https://www.acklandsgrainger.com/en/product/TAP-DIE-SET,16-PIECES/p/WSW1PZ34

HSS set. $100. Westward set good quality. I have one. I agree some sizes you don't use but at $20/die separately it adds up quick. They have other sized sets too. (Thanks @johnnielsen )


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## DPittman (Jan 23, 2019)

Janger said:


> https://www.acklandsgrainger.com/en/product/TAP-DIE-SET,16-PIECES/p/WSW1PZ34
> 
> HSS set. $100. Westward set good quality. I have one. I agree some sizes you don't use but at $20/die separately it adds up quick. They have other sized sets too. (Thanks @johnnielsen )


That's good to hear personal experience with the set and $100 for a hss set doesn't seem to bad.  My experience with Ackland's is that they are almost always overpriced and sometimes ridiculously so.


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## John Conroy (Jan 23, 2019)

That is a great deal if they really are HSS (I'm a born skeptic). Compare that to $540 for a HSS set from KBC.

https://www.kbctools.ca/itemdetail/5-314-9544

Even the HCS set is $192 at KBC

https://www.kbctools.ca/itemdetail/5-314-9644

Of course those kits contain a lot more taps and dies.


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## DPittman (Jan 23, 2019)

Y





John Conroy said:


> That is a great deal if they really are HSS (I'm a born skeptic). Compare that to $540 for a HSS set from KBC.
> 
> https://www.kbctools.ca/itemdetail/5-314-9544
> 
> ...


Yes but the Acklands set is only a 16 piece set (7 taps and 7 dies)


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## Chicken lights (Feb 10, 2019)

Ok I’ll admit I was questioning the ruler advice. But I think that’s next on the list, I can see how they would help with layout now. 

There’s a certain “feel” to get the centre punch IN the scribe line, and not beside it. 

But, so much nicer so far. Measure over 2”, use the square to scribe a line, measure where you want it and centre punch it. I still use a regular centre punch after, the first one I only used the Starett automatic punch the drill wandered a bit. 

Baby steps


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## Janger (Feb 10, 2019)

Centre drill the hole and you get a chamfer to keep the drill bit from wandering.


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## Chicken lights (Feb 10, 2019)

Janger said:


> Centre drill the hole and you get a chamfer to keep the drill bit from wandering.


I’ve used those before in a mill, you can do that with a drill press or cordless drill?


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## Janger (Feb 10, 2019)

Drill press definitely - cordless I have done that - it’s easy to snap off the tip though especially with the smaller sizes. And then you have a nightmare. It Has to go in very straight.


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## ducdon (Feb 10, 2019)




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## kevin.decelles (Feb 10, 2019)

I was making a exhaust shroud for my sand muller today and pulled out my set of Cleco pins.  Very handy.  Basically lets you drill/align two pieces of metal before you rivet/attach them together.

See video here:  Youtube - video on Cleco


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## Johnwa (Feb 10, 2019)

Sand muller?!  Pictures please.


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## ducdon (Feb 10, 2019)

Yes please. Pcs.


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## kevin.decelles (Feb 11, 2019)

I'll start a new post soon


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## Tom O (Feb 11, 2019)

That would be nice, I pour out the sand on a tarp wet it and shuffle it around until it is mixed  a muller is definitely in the cards, ironman on YouTube has a good video on his he used a microwave timer to set his.


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## Chicken lights (Feb 11, 2019)

Is one better than the other? They suggested the one circled in green, I’m used to using the one circled in red for spotting holes


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## Dabbler (Feb 11, 2019)

center (re) drills work well if you only drill the little hole, but tnot the 60 degree part.  Even professional machinists get that wrong.  A centre (er) drill is primarily meant for drilling for a 60 degree center...  when you use it for a 118 degree drill, your contact area is on an edge, and if your flutes are a little out, it will pull the drill out of line.  Sometimw waaay out of line.  Using a 118 degree spotter drill for a 118 degree drill is ideal.


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## ducdon (Feb 11, 2019)

Center drills work fine.  If I remember my schooling correctly the spotting hole should only be slightly larger in diameter than the chisel tip on the drill bit you intend to use.  That way it traps the drill point just enough to get the lips cutting. As noted a proper spotting drill would be ideal but then again the budget comes into play! The center drill can do double duty.


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## kevin.decelles (Feb 11, 2019)

Cleco at work 

Pinning together exhaust shoot 










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## Chicken lights (Feb 12, 2019)

Picked this guy up today at a local machine shop. $10 cash, we were both happy. 

No idea on the brand, it’s got WTC #4 
HSS USA 
written on it. More than good enough for me


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## Chicken lights (Feb 12, 2019)

I borrowed a buddies drill press to drill a bunch of holes in aluminum angle. I don’t have a drill press vise or fancy riser blocks, so I made up a couple pairs of riser blocks from what I could find in the shop


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## Alexander (Feb 14, 2019)

Whats measuring tools does a pro need?  This is the basics. Not including guages and big stuff


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## Alexander (Feb 14, 2019)

Not strictly relevant but this is a big mic. there is a 0-1 mic in the picture for scale


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## Tom O (Feb 15, 2019)

Alexander said:


> Not strictly relevant but this is a big mic. there is a 0-1 mic in the picture for scale
> View attachment 4384


Definitely a big ass Mike!


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## ducdon (Feb 15, 2019)

Tom O said:


> Definitely a big ass Mike!


Good for measuring things in your Sherline.


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## Tom O (Feb 15, 2019)

ducdon said:


> Good for measuring things in your Sherline.


Yep I’d have to use a length of string!


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## Alexander (Feb 15, 2019)

That mic is a tool my work has. I think it is a mitutoyo 30 inch with anvils to meashure as small as 25"


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## Tom Kitta (Feb 19, 2019)

Chicken lights said:


> View attachment 4371
> Picked this guy up today at a local machine shop. $10 cash, we were both happy.
> 
> No idea on the brand, it’s got WTC #4
> ...



If you want I can sell you few used ones - HSS USA #4 #5 #6 I sell for $5 each. Let me know what do you need. Up to #6 - I think that is 0.5 inch if memory serves me well.


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## CalgaryPT (Feb 25, 2019)

historicalarms said:


> I concur with the eye protection being first on the list. I lost an eye some years ago at the start of my hobby machining era (not from machining tho) and with only one left I became very cognizant of the importance of that one eye...I  have at least a 1/2 dozen of the full face shield hoods in my shop, almost within arms length at any time and I don't even pick up a hammer without putting a shield on first. If you still have two eyes...keep it that way because if you ever go down to a single one there is no "second chance".



Just saw this now. Sorry about your accident. Great advice you have. I do the same as you--in just a double car garage I have 3 full face shields that I hang from the ceiling within reach of most of my machines, as well as a #5 full face shield by my plasma cutter. I also have two welding helmets in case a friend comes over. I have multiple googles that fit over standard progressives as well, but use these now for small hand work mostly. Full face shields are the way to go and I'm proud to say I have done this so long I've had to replace them all due to scratches, especially the one the hangs over my grinder and wire wheel. Every time I even think of not putting it on I remember a phrase a co-worker taught me:

*Policies only work if they are followed.*

Sadly I am not as careful with my hearing, but I will try to improve on that.


----------



## Chicken lights (Mar 31, 2019)

I used my transfer punches and spotting bit for the first time today. Took less than ten minutes to locate and drill those three holes. No measuring, no fussing with a tape measure, no sharpie lines guessing at centre punching. Went right from the spotting drill to a 5/16” bit, all three bolts were dead on. 

(We don’t need to bring up the runout in my still borrowed job mate drill press lol)

Next step is a tool to cut that off straight.


----------



## CalgaryPT (Mar 31, 2019)

I love transfer punches. Cheap, but they are the right tool for the job.

This weekend Chucking Reamers are my best friend. I was so happy when I discovered these things a long time ago. Instead of enlarging a undersize hole with a drill bit, or a tapered reamer, these fractional ones go up by 1/64" and save my butt every time. Mine are just straight flute HSS, but you can get really fancy ones, as well as spiral ones for keyways, etc. Used to buy them individually, but you can get whole sets for $200 - $300 now on Amazon.

90% of the time I use them in a hand drill.


----------



## historicalarms (Apr 1, 2019)

Has anyone used/tried to use reamers as shown in Calgary's post for slotting a hole (material will be alum.) that a decimal end mill isn't available for? I can get a fractional end mill that is within 10 thou of the size I need but every bit of "slop" I can get away from would be a help.


----------



## Tom Kitta (Apr 1, 2019)

historicalarms said:


> Has anyone used/tried to use reamers as shown in Calgary's post for slotting a hole (material will be alum.) that a decimal end mill isn't available for? I can get a fractional end mill that is within 10 thou of the size I need but every bit of "slop" I can get away from would be a help.



You mean you want to use a reamer as an end mill cutter to enlarge a bit a slot? This depends on how big things are - 0.010 bigger for a small 1/8th end mill and 0.135 reamer over say 5 inches in 1inch thick aluminium seems like a lot.

A 0.5 end mill and 0.510 reamer over 1 inch in 1/8th thick aluminium should not pose a problem at all.


----------



## Tom O (Apr 1, 2019)

That’s a nice set of reamers.


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## Brian H (Apr 1, 2019)

CalgaryPT said:


> I love transfer punches. Cheap, but they are the right tool for the job.
> 
> This weekend Chucking Reamers are my best friend. I was so happy when I discovered these things a long time ago. Instead of enlarging a undersize hole with a drill bit, or a tapered reamer, these fractional ones go up by 1/64" and save my butt every time. Mine are just straight flute HSS, but you can get really fancy ones, as well as spiral ones for keyways, etc. Used to buy them individually, but you can get whole sets for $200 - $300 now on Amazon.
> 
> ...


That is a thing of beauty. A bit out of my current budget, but, is now on my "want" list. Kids are going to get a shock when they see my Christmas list this year...LOL


----------



## PeterT (Apr 1, 2019)

Reamers are used to size holes very accurately & there are rules of thumb as to the appropriate size of pilot hole they follow. An end mill is kind of analogous to a drill - they are 'roughing devices' not really meant for finished hole sizes. But its all about what kind of tolerance you are striving to achieve. +/- 0.002 is in the range of drills. If you want another decimal place or even +./- .0005" you are wanting a reamer. Reamers 'follow' holes, so a bad starter hole will be a slightly better reamed hole.

You used the word 'slotting' a hole which is kind of misnomer. An end mill can cut a slot. A center cutting end mill can make a round hole (ideally again with a slightly undersized pilot hole). A drill can only make a round hole. A reamer can only ream a round hole they aren't intended to finish a slot if that's what you meant.


----------



## CalgaryPT (Apr 1, 2019)

Brian H said:


> That is a thing of beauty. A bit out of my current budget, but, is now on my "want" list. Kids are going to get a shock when they see my Christmas list this year...LOL



When you do get some Brian, make sure you get a case for them. Unlike drill bits, chucking reamers have a lot of exposed cutting edges and can chip and dull if kept next to each other. You want to separate them so them don't bang into each other. The set I show is off Amazon is rebranded by a bunch of companies. A big complaint is that the box is cheap and often arrives shattered. Metal boxed sets are available but are more expensive. You can buy smaller sets and individual ones too...which is how I started out.

Years ago I forgot to allow for the added thickness of powder coat on some parts, and a chucking reamer saved me. Tubalcain has a great 3 part intro to reamers. Here's the link to Part 1 (I'll let you find the others if interested).


----------



## DPittman (Apr 2, 2019)

CalgaryPT said:


> When you do get some Brian, make sure you get a case for them. Unlike drill bits, chucking reamers have a lot of exposed cutting edges and can chip and dull if kept next to each other. You want to separate them so them don't bang into each other. The set I show is off Amazon is rebranded by a bunch of companies. A big complaint is that the box is cheap and often arrives shattered. Metal boxed sets are available but are more expensive. You can buy smaller sets and individual ones too...which is how I started out.
> 
> Years ago I forgot to allow for the added thickness of powder coat on some parts, and a chucking reamer saved me. Tubalcain has a great 3 part intro to reamers. Here's the link to Part 1 (I'll let you find the others if interested).


The missing link


----------



## Tom Kitta (Apr 2, 2019)

Overall a good introduction. He didn't mention that you halve the speed for machine reaming vs. drilling - i.e. you ream at half speed of drilling of the same size for same material.

Also you can sharpen reamers - you can sharpen just the top part without effecting their size - after all the most dull part is at the start.

I have lots of them but only used so far few times - when you just need precise size - I may use one in few weeks - a precise fit for a bearing.


----------



## Chicken lights (May 12, 2019)

Is a cheap Accusize metal gauge wheel “good enough”? 

The local fab shop when I asked them said “I didn’t even bother looking for anything other than a Mitutoyo”

I’m guessing for $20 the Accusize one will be fine


----------



## CalgaryPT (May 12, 2019)

If we all waited until we had enough money to buy the very best for every tool, we'd never start a hobby. Or own a house. Or car. Or engagement ring for a wife, etc.

Get what you can afford, make the best of it, and upgrade when you can. No shame in that.


----------



## Tom Kitta (May 12, 2019)

Chicken lights said:


> Is a cheap Accusize metal gauge wheel “good enough”?
> 
> The local fab shop when I asked them said “I didn’t even bother looking for anything other than a Mitutoyo”
> 
> I’m guessing for $20 the Accusize one will be fine



I am sure there is a reason why a lot of shops go under 

My cheap $10 Chinese calipers don't feel like x10 more expensive ones but they are almost as accurate as 10x as expensive ones. Now occasionaly calipers get abused. I rather trash cheap ones then expensive ones. Expensive stuff is well protected and used when its accuracy is needed. Otherwise cheap stuff gets used almost all the time.

The problem is that the cheap tool sometimes is garbage - cheap calipers are not. But there are plenty of say tap and die sets etc. That are simply scrap metal.


----------



## CalgaryPT (May 12, 2019)

Good points. 

I'm a hot sauce fanatic. You can buy super expensive colour meters to tell when peppers are at the perfect time to pick, but companies like Tabasco still use a little red painted stick ("le petite bâton rouge") to gauge colour in the field. Simple, effective, and practically disposable in terms of cost—the right tool for the job.

I don't carry a Bosch electronic measuring device on my trips to scrap yards or metal suppliers, buy I do have cheap tape measures in my truck if needed.


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## Downwindtracker2 (May 21, 2019)

A sheet metal guage wheel is more of a ballpark instrument , not a precision go no-go . So even the ones at a PA would work fine.


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## Chicken lights (Jun 18, 2019)

Started off looking at these on Amazon. About $20 roughly like I posted above, plus shipping. 

Amazon won’t ship these to a post office box apparently 

Called a local machine shop that had offered to order me stuff from Sowa before. They said yup usually $20-30 they’ll order me one. 

They called me back a few days later said they’re about $40, I said okay order it please. 

I was expecting a house brand or knockoff from Sowa and got handed this today. 

So, looks like I own a Mitutoyo brand after all. I guess I could ask them to send it back but I don’t like doing that to guys. I mean $40 to $60 isn’t the end of the world I can live with it. 

Such is life I guess


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## PeterT (Jun 18, 2019)

This one is showing out of stock right now but I have seen those free shipping with Prime. Cant speak to PO box but kind of makes sense. I usually get an email notificationits being delivered in 3 hours, then a pic of it on my doorstep. https://www.amazon.ca/Mitutoyo-950-203-U-S-Standard-Ferrous/dp/B002SG7R2I

KBC same price but add shipping  https://www.kbctools.ca/products/search/950-203

Thomas Skinner is $42 and change, FOB Calgary pickup

Sowa is pretty reputable & exact. If it says Mitutoyo, it means Mitutoyo because hey are a dealer. Same for KBC, Travers, Skinner... If its a clone they typically have their own zippy name.
You need to check around because prices fluctuate with both currency & stock. Not a big dif on this item but adds up on more expensive accessories.


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## Chicken lights (Aug 18, 2019)

I guess I’m looking for a large tap handle, and a quality smaller tap handle. 

Anyone got any suggestions?

I’ll probably also be looking for a decent tap set someday but for right now I can borrow what I need


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## Crankit (Aug 18, 2019)

I got my large #7 Greenfield off ebay and my middle sized one #5 from a tap and die set for sale on a fb posting close to me... Guy could have sold that included tap handle for the same price I paid for the whole kit. So keep an eye out for sets that have a good handle in it.

Cheers 

Wayne


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## PeterT (Aug 18, 2019)

Starretts are super nice but will set you back $ unless you can find used.
https://www.starrett.com/metrology/product-detail/91A

I've had a couple crap ones over the years & are basically a waste of money. Look for these typical issues
- Skinny, flexible handles. Typically too long for small tap range. Bigger tap handles aren't as much an issue as they have a predictable bite but for teeny taps use the right sized handle
- Poor fitting jaws. Too much slop in the clamping mechanism, usually loose QC. Screw clamp mechanism loosens up on tap after a few fwd/rev turns. Soup can steel jaws not up to task.
- Unbalanced which is typically non-centered head and or mass of handle screw-in clamping mechanism. It just feels wrong in your hand & makes starting the tap less joy than a well designed tool
Respectfully Yours, Tool Snob


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