# Son of a biscuit eater it's cold.



## 6.5 Fan (Dec 28, 2021)

Damn it's a cool breeze out in the open today, -47 or so wind chill. The girls didn't really want to leave their bedding area to eat. Didn't even try the tractor that is plugged in and in an open shed, just fired up the smaller chore tractor that is in a heated shop. Think i will just stay indoors the rest of the day and spend time in the reloading room.


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## YotaBota (Dec 28, 2021)

I can tell I'm not getting any sympathy with -7 and 3" of snow,lol
Stay safe people.


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## David_R8 (Dec 28, 2021)

I definitely do not miss those severe winter temps!


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## CalgaryPT (Dec 28, 2021)

YotaBota said:


> I can tell I'm not getting any sympathy with -7 and 3" of snow,lol
> Stay safe people.


Well, at least your perception is working great  LOL


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## YYCHM (Dec 28, 2021)

The Prairies are so cold, you can see the frigid air from space
					

The intense cold snap gripping the Prairies continues to make the region one of the coldest spots on Earth. The cold will relent a bit in Alberta, but intensify in Saskatchewan and Manitoba into the weekend.



					www.theweathernetwork.com


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## CalgaryPT (Dec 28, 2021)

Not that I want to restart the electric car discussion yet again, but just I wonder how well those Teslas are recharging outside in this weather with just their inverters and no fast charge stations? Does anyone here have one outside in Calgary or Edmonton?


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## SparWeb (Dec 28, 2021)

I don't have an EV (Yet!) but I do keep track of their capabilities.

The Norwegians seem to enjoy test-driving EV's.  Here are two articles that may interest you:
2020: https://insideevs.com/news/404632/winter-range-test-best-evs-cold-weather/
2018: https://elbil.no/the-biggest-electric-car-test-in-winter-wonderland-ever/

The answer shouldn't be a surprise.  All have reduced range and reduced recharge rate in winter.  This varies from model to model.


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## 6.5 Fan (Dec 28, 2021)

Don't think EV's will do well in these temps the prairies are experiencing. They are talking about installing a kick start lever on my butt to get me moving in the morning.


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## PeterT (Dec 28, 2021)

Sustained minus 40 is our house pain threshold. Having some freezing off issues on some water pipes in our crawl space area as we speak. Thought we had the issue licked with a furnace duct entering the space a few years back but apparently not. Anyone have any pro/con experience with retrofitted heat trace lines like this?


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## Dusty (Dec 28, 2021)

6.5 Fan said:


> Don't think EV's will do well in these temps the prairies are experiencing. They are talking about installing a kick start lever on my butt to get me moving in the morning.



Never been kicked by a frozen Mukluk before, how are the ladies fairing extra rations one would hope?

We've had to rescue our small pooch a couple of times now would hate to see her injure her wee pads even though she wears a warm coat.

So we go out with her and gather her up quickly then dash for the warmth of the house dragging my trusty cane.


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## Tomc938 (Dec 28, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> I definitely do not miss those severe winter temps!


But it's a damp cold here on the Island!


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## David_R8 (Dec 28, 2021)

Tomc938 said:


> But it's a damp cold here on the Island!


Indeed it is! Goes right through a person!


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## Dusty (Dec 28, 2021)

Tomc938 said:


> But it's a damp cold here on the Island!



Remember a few times growing up in Stoney Creek, (Hamilton area) when temperatures dipped well below zero plus a strong wind off of Lake Ontario. Cut right through you. Long john's hung on the clothes line frozen stiff, we kids laughed. Thank goodness for grandma's hand knit took, scarves, mittens and heavy wool socks.


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## Tomc938 (Dec 28, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> Indeed it is! Goes right through a person!


YEah, those people on the Prairies don't realize how good they have it, -40 but a dry cold.


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## Dusty (Dec 28, 2021)

Tomc938 said:


> YEah, those people on the Prairies don't realize how good they have it, -40 but a dry cold.



Take a close look at post#13 and you'll see where I reside.  When your my age minus 40 degrees Celsius is cold.


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## YYCHM (Dec 28, 2021)

Every time it gets like this, I start thinking sell everything and move to Mexico.  I hate this weather


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## Perry (Dec 28, 2021)

This cold has me wondering.   The garage has no insulation yet.  Still working on the wiring in the small fleeting moments that I get.     With the furnace on things start to warm up and a bit of moisture is picked up in the air.  This moisture instantly freezes on the walls.    

I'm thinking this might not be a good thing.   Once the wiring is finished and signed off, the plan was to move to the insulating and vapor barrier.  Before I do this one would think it would be ideal to have those walls dry.  

Thoughts?


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## YYCHM (Dec 28, 2021)

When I worked on the Arctic drilling rigs, on one flight north (on an Electra no less) they had removed some of the interior trim and insulation.  I swear that plane had a inch of ice on the interior of it's skin.  I've always wondered how they came up with a weight and balance to accommodate that phenomenon


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## Perry (Dec 28, 2021)

That is a big problem.  I hope this doesn't affect the weight and balance of my garage.  

Another one that most people do not take into account is that an aircraft can be in a totally different environment hours later where the ice will melt and get into all the little crevices.   A few hours later it's back to the cold temperature where it freezes again.   Slowly pushing the skin right off the stringers.


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## Tomc938 (Dec 28, 2021)

Dusty said:


> Take a close look at post#13 and you'll see where I reside.  When your my age minus 40 degrees Celsius is cold.


Moose Jaw - ah, those southern climes!  Don't worry, I feel your pain.  Grew up in Saskatoon, Winnipeg, and a wee bit in Regina. Been to Moose Jaw - but in the summer.


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## Dabbler (Dec 29, 2021)

@Dusty I grew up not too far from you, in Burlington.  

Were you there for the great deep snows of '64?  (or was it '63?)  we had over 8 feet of snow on our front yard!  shoveling the roof that year was a weekly occurrence... And cold!  -27F and the cold Lake Ontario breeze to walk to school with... and few snow days  that year...


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## Dabbler (Dec 29, 2021)

Right now we are hunkering down and going out only for necessities.  I'm turning into a wimp in my dotage.


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## 6.5 Fan (Dec 29, 2021)

I can live with the cold but the wind chill is nasty. Best Feb i ever had was in Arizona 3 years ago.  We even had frost 2 mornings while i was there.


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## historicalarms (Dec 29, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> When I worked on the Arctic drilling rigs, on one flight north (on an Electra no less) they had removed some of the interior trim and insulation.  I swear that plane had a inch of ice on the interior of it's skin.  I've always wondered how they came up with a weight and balance to accommodate that phenomenon


  Ahh the old PWA (please wait awhile) airlines Electra. I actually flew with a pilot that his name tag was "Hartwell" but don't know if he was "the one"'....I drank a lot of whiskey on that one!! 
     On one of the flights in an Electra I asked the pilot why "those wings flexed & bounced so much"....his reply "start worrying when they quit flexing....means their maxed out".


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## SparWeb (Jan 1, 2022)

> PeterT: Sustained minus 40 is our house pain threshold. Having some freezing off issues on some water pipes in our crawl space area as we speak. Thought we had the issue licked with a furnace duct entering the space a few years back but apparently not. Anyone have any pro/con experience with retrofitted heat trace lines like this?



That would be great if your lines are copper.  I think you also want to wrap them in an insulated jacket, and do it neatly with a sealed wrap around it.  Making sure the insulation won't have any disagreement with the temperature of the heat-tape, of course.  If you aren't working with copper pipes, then I don't think it will help.

You could say the same about my house's pain threshold, but in my case it's the waste lines, not the supply from the well.  I guess if I had to choose drains to fail first, but I'd rather not have either giving me trouble.  You may remember the 2019 February deep-freeze we had for 3 weeks.  Heat tape wouldn't have helped my drains against that.


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## CalgaryPT (Jan 1, 2022)

6.5 Fan said:


> ....They are talking about installing a kick start lever on my butt to get me moving in the morning.


Here's hoping the plan doesn't backfire.


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## CalgaryPT (Jan 1, 2022)

SparWeb said:


> I don't have an EV (Yet!) but I do keep track of their capabilities.
> 
> The Norwegians seem to enjoy test-driving EV's.  Here are two articles that may interest you:
> 2020: https://insideevs.com/news/404632/winter-range-test-best-evs-cold-weather/
> ...


I checked the articles linked and watched the videos as suggested. Very informative. Thanks for posting. What jumped out at me in the first link was that they initially charged the cars _indoors_, but sadly did not specify if this was with onboard inverters or $40K fast charging stations. As a side note, I could never do this because:

1) My garage is full of tools and I'd have to get rid of all them to put a car in there. That ain't happening.
2) My panel can't support an 80 Amp Fast Charge Station. Last time I enquired as to cost for the upgrade to 200 Amps it was $25K— and that was in 2001.

The second example appears to mostly use fast charging (and starts in a hi tech parking/charging facility) but on one occasion uses standard charging (Schuko) which looks to be regular household current (albeit on fully charged batteries overnight I think).

A couple of other observations...firstly, that country is bloody beautiful. The scenery is amazing and I lost concentration on more than one occasion.

Secondly, I take some solace in the fact that I always sound negative when talking about EVs. Historically speaking, whenever I thumbs down an idea involving battery technology I'm proven wrong within 10 years. So I feel good that my skepticism on this forum is playing a pivotal role in advancing the technology to the point where it will work in Canada soon enough.

You're all welcome.


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## YYCHM (Jan 1, 2022)

CalgaryPT said:


> I checked the articles linked and watched the videos as suggested. Very informative. Thanks for posting. What jumped out at me in the first link was that they initially charged the cars _indoors_, but sadly did not specify if this was with onboard inverters or $40K fast charging stations. As a side note, I could never do this because:
> 
> 1) My garage is full of tools and I'd have to get rid of all them to put a car in there. That ain't happening.
> 2) My panel can't support an 80 Amp Fast Charge Station. Last time I enquired as to cost for the upgrade to 200 Amps it was $25K— and that was in 2001.
> ...



@RobinHood Told me that Europe supplies higher voltages to house holds than NA?  Maybe he can comment.....


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## RobinHood (Jan 1, 2022)

Yes, Switzerland for sure (I think Germany & Austria as well), regular household power is 380V, 3 phase. Usually about 100A.


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## Dabbler (Jan 2, 2022)

RobinHood said:


> household power is 380V, 3 phase. Usually about 100A


now THAT is power


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## 6.5 Fan (Jan 2, 2022)

We had no power yesterday for 3.5 hrs, no idea how long to fix so dig out the kerosene heater and start covering water bowls. The only good thing was there was no wind. Sask Power guy was back and forth a lot and fixed the problem. Nobody like a power failure at -35.


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## RobinHood (Jan 2, 2022)

Dabbler said:


> now THAT is power



Sure is.

Most folks get their table saws, jointers, mills, lathes, drill presses, etc in 380V, 3ph. It is very economical to wire them up as the cross sectional area of the wires required is seldom more than #10 or #12 AWG equivalent, even for the bigger motors. And now with the VFDs you have full control over the motor speed.

“We had no power yesterday for 3.5 hrs,”

Parents had to use their generator (behind their Kubota tractor) a few weeks back when their power was out for just under a day. Good thing it was not all that cold then. Area power lines came down during a big windstorm. They are south of Ottawa.


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## CalgaryPT (Jan 2, 2022)

6.5 Fan said:


> We had no power yesterday for 3.5 hrs, no idea how long to fix so dig out the kerosene heater and start covering water bowls. The only good thing was there was no wind. Sask Power guy was back and forth a lot and fixed the problem. Nobody like a power failure at -35.


Ouch. Farm life is more complicated because animals and outbuildings are involved, but surprisingly the worst power issues I ever had were in our old wartime house in inner city Calgary decades ago (Kensington). Newspaper insulation, cracks and heat loss everywhere. Heat tape on the soft copper supply line to the house. The power always went out when it got cold, as I think the pole transformer was scabbed from the Diefenbunker. The line splices failed a lot and the jellybeans on the comms line routinely shattered in cold weather— showering plastic onto our garage roof, and shutting down internet and phone service for the neighbourhood. I bought a Honda inverter and wired in a DPDT switch to the furnace fan. When power went out I flipped the switch, fired up the generator on the porch and ran our taps at half throttle. At least we had heat.

I still have a inverter generator (now a EU2000i) and always intended to wire a similar switch to our existing furnace in our new house (now 20+) years old. But we have never had a power failure here that didn't correct itself in under a minute. When visiting a friend's house on an expensive acreage some years back, he said it was standard practice now to have switches like that in the country (well, at least in expensive areas such as his). Now of course the switches are actually relays that toggle over the supply source while simultaneously starting up the generator in a protected and heated shed outside. Must be nice.


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## David_R8 (Jan 2, 2022)

Perry said:


> This cold has me wondering.   The garage has no insulation yet.  Still working on the wiring in the small fleeting moments that I get.     With the furnace on things start to warm up and a bit of moisture is picked up in the air.  This moisture instantly freezes on the walls.
> 
> I'm thinking this might not be a good thing.   Once the wiring is finished and signed off, the plan was to move to the insulating and vapor barrier.  Before I do this one would think it would be ideal to have those walls dry.
> 
> Thoughts?


You definitely don’t want to enclose the walls while they are damp. And use Roxul insulation not fibreglass as it does not absorb water.


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## Dusty (Jan 2, 2022)

YYCHM said:


> When I worked on the Arctic drilling rigs, on one flight north (on an Electra no less) they had removed some of the interior trim and insulation.  I swear that plane had a inch of ice on the interior of it's skin.  I've always wondered how they came up with a weight and balance to accommodate that phenomenon



Hey Craig, there are old pilots and bold pilots but there are NO old bold pilots. Its called flying by the seat of your pants, and by the grace of God.

Take a wild guess as to where the center of 'G' was because the pilot didn't know either.


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## YYCHM (Jan 2, 2022)

Dusty said:


> Hey Craig, there are old pilots and bold pilots but there are NO old bold pilots. Its called flying by the seat of your pants, and by the grace of God.



Kind of like, any landing you can walk away from is a good landing LOL....


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## Susquatch (Jan 2, 2022)

Dusty said:


> Its called flying by the seat of your pants, and by the grace of God.





YYCHM said:


> Kind of like, any landing you can walk away from is a good landing LOL....



Please remind me never to go flying with either of you two guys.....


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## Dusty (Jan 2, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Please remind me never to go flying with either of you two guys.....



Silly sissy boy! LOL


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## YotaBota (Jan 2, 2022)

Real airplanes have control "sticks", tailwheels, heel brakes and are "flip" start. LOL


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## Susquatch (Jan 2, 2022)

Dusty said:


> Silly sissy boy! LOL



I burst right out loud laughing at that. My wife is the only other person I know who has ever called me a sissy! 

It was also fun to put an angry emoticon on that comment. It was my very first one! 

I still ain't goin flyin with ya....


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## Perry (Jan 4, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> You definitely don’t want to enclose the walls while they are damp. And use Roxul insulation not fibreglass as it does not absorb water.


Dave, I've used the RockWool in my basement.  Just too expensive for the garage.  Approx $1.76 a sq. ft. compared to $0.98 a sq.ft. .

We had a couple nice  (nicer) days here in Calgary over the weekend.   I cranked up the furnace.  Dried everything out.   Resisted on parking the vehicle inside. This was the source of a lot of the moisture in the air.

I finally got a little chance to work on the electrical again and everything was going good with no frost at all on the walls.  (Saturday, Sunday and Monday.) It dropped back down to -27c here tonight.  With no insulation at all the furnace is struggling (running full time) to maintain 8C in the garage.  I can only guess what my gas bill will be this month.     So I shut down the furnace and will wait for the next chinook to roll in for the next stage.  Vehicle is back inside.  Nice blizzard going on with the -27c.  


Any of you gents see the difference in these two?



			https://www.homedepot.ca/product/owens-corning-r-20-ecotouch-pink-fiberglas-insulation-15-inch-x-47-inch-x-6-inch-78-3-sq-ft-/1000181137
		


and 



			https://www.homedepot.ca/product/owens-corning-r-22-ecotouch-pink-fiberglas-insulation-15-inch-x-47-inch-x-5-5-inch-49-sq-ft-/1000525606
		


I can not see the R22 costing that much more then the R20. Am I missing something else?   The R22 appears to be 5.5"inches thick and the R20 is 6" thick. That seems backwards.


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## Doggggboy (Jan 4, 2022)

Perry said:


> Dave, I've used the RockWool in my basement.  Just too expensive for the garage.  Approx $1.76 a sq. ft. compared to $0.98 a sq.ft. .
> 
> We had a couple nice  (nicer) days here in Calgary over the weekend.   I cranked up the furnace.  Dried everything out.   Resisted on parking the vehicle inside. This was the source of a lot of the moisture in the air.
> 
> ...


It looks like the 6 inch gives you 78 sq ft vs 49 sq ft for the 5.5 inch. 50% more.


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## Perry (Jan 4, 2022)

Doggggboy said:


> It looks like the 6 inch gives you 78 sq ft vs 49 sq ft for the 5.5 inch. 50% more.


  Thinner, less coverage , more expensive......but R22 rating.     R22 $1.31 Sq Ft vs R20 $0.98 Sq. Ft.


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## Susquatch (Jan 4, 2022)

It could be that home depots website doesn't reflect the newer product technology. But that's just a guess. 

Please humour me with some basics about insulation. Ie ignore me or stop reading if this is all obvious stuff. 

The R value is just a rating for the heat conductivity of a given material. It is the denominator in a simple equation. An R value of 10 means that 1/10 of a watt of heat is passed through the insulation for each degree Celsius between the inside and outside per square meter. An R value of 20 means 1/20th of a watt per square meter per degree difference. 

You can do some interesting calculations using this knowledge. Let's say it is 20C inside and - 20C outside. That's a 40C difference. If you have a 10 sq meter wall with R20 insulation, then 1/20 x 10 is 1/2 watt per degree x 40 C = 20 Watts of heat. In other words, a 20 watt light bulb will balance the heat lost through that 10m2 wall. Of course, there is also other walls windows and doors, a ceiling, and a floor to account for. These can all be added separately to determine the heating or cooling needs for the space. 

It doesn't matter how thick the material is or what it is made of. The higher the r value, the better the insulation. Thin materials can be a better insulator than thick materials. Think aluminium frying pan handle VS wood. Wood is a good insulator compared to aluminium. 

You can also stack the r values if you use several layers of insulation. Just be aware that insulation like the pink bats require a certain thickness to achieve their rating (usually based on the stud size - 2x4s or 2x6 or 2x8,etc) If you compress them to add another layer, you reduce their R value. Generally speaking, stacking is most useful in an attic where you can simply throw another layer on top or on a wall where you can add a foam insulation layer outside. 

Hope that helps. Again, I apologize for the boring post if it was all obvious stuff.


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## RobinHood (Jan 4, 2022)

@Perry , perhaps something to consider: would you be interested in a commercial insulation product vs the prosumer type you get at the big box stores?

If yes, contact Cory Reynolds at Total-R here in Calgary (no affiliation, I paid 100% for my insulation from them). You can mention my name if they ask you how you found out about them. 
Here is how they operate: determine how much insulation and what type you need for your whole project (take the drawings in and they can help you determine how much of what you need). Decide on the product and place one order for the whole thing. You can pick it up yourself or they can deliver. They get so many stock deliveries per year (I think it is 4 times from Rockwool). If they have sufficient product in stock, you get it right away, otherwise you pre-order and have to wait.

What’s the advantage? Price. I put one layer of fireproof R12 in my big garage on all walls. It cost ~1/2 what the big box stores wanted for the stuff. Plus I got 3” thick material vs the 2” thick the BBS sell.

What’s the disadvantage? The insulation comes in big rolls. You cut it onsite to fit your studs. That is more work and less convenient. For example: I specified my second layer of R30 glass insulation at 5 feet wide, 9“ thick, 50’ per roll. I will now have to cut it into 24” wide strips before I can install it between the studs. Above the knee wall & ceiling, we used single faced, R30 blanket insulation. Those rolls were specified at 5 feet wide, 9” thick, 52 feet long. One blanket spans from one side up and over the ceiling down onto the other side. Was a bear to install, but is very efficient once in place.

Speaking of prices: they are all over the place these days and generally higher than even 2 years ago...


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## Susquatch (Jan 4, 2022)

Moisture control is a whole other matter and a bit more difficult to explain.

For those who already understand it or who just don't care about the details, please skip this post. 

At its core, moisture control is a relative humidity issue. Warm air holds more water than cold air. Relative humidity is a term that means *the amount of water that is actually in the air* VS the maximum amount of water that *could be held in the air*. Setting precise amounts and temperatures aside for just a moment, if a room at a given temperature is capable of holding a bucket of water, but is actually only holding a quarter of a bucket of water, then the relative humidity is 25%.  Hot air can hold a crap load of water. Cold air can't hold much at all. The numbers are not linear so one cannot simply write a an easy formula to calculate them. HVAC people use what is called a psychometric chart to look up the actual numbers.

For those who are interested, Here is a photo of such a chart. The top left curve is the dew point line. The bottom line (x axis) is dry air at 0% humidity.






Not really a very easy graph to use. But feel free to print it out and play with it.......

Back to our room with a quarter bucket of water in it.

If you start cooling the room, without adding or removing any water, the relative humidity starts climbing because the maximum amount of water that the colder air can hold is diving. At some point in that dive, 100% relative humidity is reached. This point for that air is called "the dew point" because that is the temperature, for that air, with that amount of water in it, starts to condense and form droplets of water on the surfaces in the room. If the temp drops fast enough, fog will form. Even faster and it will start raining or snowing.

The problem with an insulated wall is that insulation usually entraps air to achieve a good insulating value. (Air that is trapped and not circulating is an excellent insulator). If that air contains any water vapour in it (as it usually does), the temperature drop will cause the water to condense inside the insulation and on the surface. In addition to causing mold, water is a poor insulator. So the R value deteriorates with water content. All bad stuff.

This is the reason for a moisture barrier. Warm inside air usually (but not always) holds more water in it than cold outside air - not just because it can, but also because we add more water to it from our own, sweat, boiling water, burning fuel, drying things, etc. We don't want that water to get inside the insulation or to reach the outside walls where it could condense due to the lower temperatures, so we install a plastic or metal vapour barrier on the inside wall to stop air from carrying that moisture into the wall where it could condense if the air was cooled down to its dew point.

With the exception of humidity controlled wall spaces, you only want the moisture barrier on the inside wall. Basically, you want the insulation to be able to "breathe" so that it always has the same moisture content as the cold outside air. 

Closed cell foam insulation is ok because it works in both directions - the gas trapped inside it is dry and it is also a natural vapour barrier.

The obvious issue that arises with an inside vapour barrier hapoens when the inside air is cooler than the outside air. That's why air conditioning and/or dehumidifying is so important. The both keep the dew point below the actual temperature. It isn't practical to refrigerate or dehumidify the outside air. Mother nature does that for us - or not.

As with insulation, I provide this basic explanation only for the benefit of those who are interested.


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## Dusty (Jan 4, 2022)

Dabbler said:


> @Dusty I grew up not too far from you, in Burlington.
> 
> Were you there for the great deep snows of '64?  (or was it '63?)  we had over 8 feet of snow on our front yard!  shoveling the roof that year was a weekly occurrence... And cold!  -27F and the cold Lake Ontario breeze to walk to school with... and few snow days  that year...



@Dabler, just read this post not usually that far behind the curve. LOL

I was born 1938 (yes I'm 84 as of yesterday). Enlisted in the RCAF in 1955, wife and I and two young children were in France for the winters of 1963/1964. No snow, just overcast with dark sullen skies, almost constant rain and drizzle and our aircrew flew day and night. After all this was during the cold war years and Ivan (Russia) tried to play tricks. 

Vaguely remember a storm sometime between 1945-1950, took days to shovel out,  most everything came to a shuddering halt. Our family lived in Stoney Creek approximately eight miles from the center of Hamilton as you drive #8 Highway to Niagara Falls. First vehicle up our street was an old model 'A' with high axles and narrow wheels. The driver tied toboggans onto his rear bumper hauling us up and down the street very carefully of course. By that time most homeowners had shoveled their drives, started vehicles and our community finally came to life. It was several days before Dad was able to get back to work at Stanley Steel almost right next to the Steel Plant in Hamilton.

@Dabler, do you remember the old lift bridge near Burlington with the huge cement weighted ends that swung the bridge up that crossed the channel in and out of Hamilton harbor? Perhaps before your time.


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## Tom O (Jan 4, 2022)

Happy belated Birthday Dusty!


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## Dusty (Jan 4, 2022)

Tom O said:


> Happy belated Birthday Dusty!



Thanks @Tom O, now if I could just get my lame knee mobile again then life would be great. My mind says I'm 18, my body says something else.   
It's been 5 full months post surgery and I'm still struggling, to see my therapist at our hospital this coming Thursday.


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## Tom O (Jan 4, 2022)

I hear you about the 18 bit lol. 
Never give up Never Surrender!


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## Susquatch (Jan 4, 2022)

Dusty said:


> My mind says I'm 18, my body says something else.



I think you are my new hero @Dusty. You have me beat by a decade, yet you are still fighting, and still enjoying your hobbies and still looking forward to many more good years to come. I'm impressed and hopeful to be the same.


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## RobinHood (Jan 4, 2022)

Happy belated birthday Bill. May there be many more.


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## David_R8 (Jan 4, 2022)

Happy birthday Bill!


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## Dabbler (Jan 4, 2022)

Happy birthday Bill - and yes the lift bridge with teh cement counterweights was there whan I was growing up.  Is it no longer there?

My dad was a millwright at Stelco from 1940-1980... My sister moved to Millen Rd in Stoney Creek around '63, and lived there until 2 years ago. (My sister is 79 in a few days)


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## Dusty (Jan 4, 2022)

Dabbler said:


> Happy birthday Bill - and yes the lift bridge with teh cement counterweights was there whan I was growing up.  Is it no longer there?
> 
> My dad was a millwright at Stelco from 1940-1980... My sister moved to Millen Rd in Stoney Creek around '63, and lived there until 2 years ago. (My sister is 79 in a few days)



@Dabbler, our old home is located at 205 Margaret Avenue one block east of Millen Road. Small world.

One of those counter weights broke free sending it into the pavement which closed down the access across the canal. Vehicles had to mooch around through Hamilton, Dundas, etc., to get to Toronto or in reverse back to Niagara Falls/Buffalo. Tough times back then for truckers,
prompting the Skyway bridge on the QE.









						Burlington Canal Lift Bridge - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				












						UPDATE: Engineers may raise broken lift bridge to allow ships into harbour
					

<p>Burlington lift bridge strands ships in lake, forces detours on land</p>




					www.thespec.com
				












						Burlington Bay James N. Allan Skyway - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


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## Dabbler (Jan 4, 2022)

When I arrived in '62 then Skyway was under construction and the old lift bridge was sorta still there.  I saw it and used Lakeshore  a couple of years before that, when I lived in Brantford.  My uncle had his house on the Stoney Creek side of the bridge, on the Hamilton side of the road, (when there were still houses on that side).

In those days, the houses and businesses on the lake side were a going thing, There was an arcade there and a place where you drove electric bumper cars.  Very like Wasaga beach.

Very small word -- she owned 191 Millen Road - just around the corner!


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## Dusty (Jan 4, 2022)

There were two cuties growing up in that area when I was in high school.


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## Brent H (Jan 4, 2022)

Happy Birthday Bill,  very cool !!!!


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## Perry (Jan 4, 2022)

Happy birthday Bill.  Congratulations on the 84.

All the best to you!


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## combustable herbage (Jan 5, 2022)

Happy birthday Bill wishing you many more.
My travels to Stoney Creek take me to Millen Road as well, We would go to "Chuggy's" at Barton and Millen for a pint or two.
@Dusty I see a link from one of your posts shows the old clock in Mj, they could use a hand from you although I can't see you climbing those stairs with a bum knee.  Hopefully they get it going once it warms up a bit.









						[PHOTO GALLERY] Running On Time: Man Looking to Fix CPR Clock
					

A Moose Jaw man is on a mission to save one of the city’s oldest landmarks.  The Canadian Pacific Railway clock is over 99 years old and one of the first electric clocks in North America when it was built. It sits on top of the old railway station at the bottom of Main Street North. It was...




					www.discovermoosejaw.com


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## YYCHM (Jan 5, 2022)

Happy birthday Bill, here's to wishing you many more.


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## Dusty (Jan 5, 2022)

combustable herbage said:


> Happy birthday Bill wishing you many more.
> My travels to Stoney Creek take me to Millen Road as well, We would go to "Chuggy's" at Barton and Millen for a pint or two.
> @Dusty I see a link from one of your posts shows the old clock in Mj, they could use a hand from you although I can't see you climbing those stairs with a bum knee.  Hopefully they get it going once it warms up a bit.
> 
> ...



Back when I lived at 205 Margaret Avenue 'Chuggy's at Barton' didn't exist it was all farmland. As I recall facing Lake Ontario that corner was hay fields, apple orchard, and grape rows over the railway tracks and all the way to the QE Highway. From the north side (lake side) of the QE Highway to the lake were huge strawberry and tomato fields. Fact is Margaret Avenue never went all the way to Barton as it does now. So as kids when we wanted to go swimming at the lake we simply crossed over to Millen Road on our bikes.

Fully aware of the ongoing restoration of the CPR clock in Moose Jaw although climbing the stairs is out of the question. Flip side wouldn't I love to do just that. LOL


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## Dusty (Jan 5, 2022)

Brent H said:


> Happy Birthday Bill,  very cool !!!!



Thank you, been told before I'm a cool dude for aged 18. LOL


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## Tom O (Jan 5, 2022)

I’m surprised that there was only two Cuties there!


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## DPittman (Jan 5, 2022)

Dusty said:


> Thank you, been told before I'm a cool dude for aged 18. LOL


Hey happy birthday Dusty. Is today the day?  It's my birthday today too! I'm not 18 either anymore.


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## Dusty (Jan 5, 2022)

DPittman said:


> Hey happy birthday Dusty. Is today the day?  It's my birthday today too! I'm not 18 either anymore.



Yesterday January 3rd.


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## DPittman (Jan 5, 2022)

Dusty said:


> Yesterday January 3rd.


Oh I guess we are a couple of days apart....or 1 day depending if your birthday was on the 3rd or yesterday.


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## Tom O (Jan 5, 2022)

DPittman said:


> Hey happy birthday Dusty. Is today the day?  It's my birthday today too! I'm not 18 either anymore.


Happy Birthday!
They are coming out of the woodwork now!


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## Dusty (Jan 6, 2022)

CLARIFICATION:  I was born Monday, January 3, 1938 in Hamilton, ON. My 84th birthday this year also fell on Monday January 3rd 2022.

3pm, Thursday, January 6th, 2022, just back from hospital and my therapist informs me there has been minimal increase (almost unnoticeable) right knee movement over the last five week period. So she gave me an Interferential Current (IFC) treatment meaning electrical current which increases blood flow, improves healing by reducing swelling (extra circulation takes it away), and removes damaged tissue. Stimulation of local nerve cells and may elicit mild muscle contraction. Water retention is a huge concern although I'm on pee pills for that. 

Shall have a better idea where I'm at overnight or up to 24 hours later. She also mentioned me seeing my surgeon again, oh no not that!


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## Tom O (Jan 6, 2022)

So you talking range of motion then, it can take quite a while when swollen. I had a ACL replaced years ago and they used that hand held DR. HO type of machine on me he kept changing the batteries because I’d have it cranked up. A stationary bike was was main therapy rocking it back and forth till i could rotate it around 360*.


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## DPittman (Jan 6, 2022)

Dusty said:


> CLARIFICATION:  I was born Monday, January 3, 1938 in Hamilton, ON. My 84th birthday this year also fell on Monday January 3rd 2022.
> 
> 3pm, Thursday, January 6th, 2022, just back from hospital and my therapist informs me there has been minimal increase (almost unnoticeable) right knee movement over the last five week period. So she gave me an Interferential Current (IFC) treatment meaning electrical current which increases blood flow, improves healing by reducing swelling (extra circulation takes it away), and removes damaged tissue. Stimulation of local nerve cells and may elicit mild muscle contraction. Water retention is a huge concern although I'm on pee pills for that.
> 
> Shall have a better idea where I'm at overnight or up to 24 hours later. She also mentioned me seeing my surgeon again, oh no not that!


Well here's to to hoping that 2022 will bring you healing and comfort.


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## Dusty (Jan 6, 2022)

Tom O said:


> So you talking range of motion then, it can take quite a while when swollen. I had a ACL replaced years ago and they used that hand held DR. HO type of machine on me he kept changing the batteries because I’d have it cranked up. A stationary bike was was main therapy rocking it back and forth till i could rotate it around 360*.



Swollen after four knee replacement surgeries over 33 months along with water retention. If there's a light at the end of the tunnel I don't see it yet.

I count my blessings in baby steps.


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## combustable herbage (Jan 7, 2022)

Dusty said:


> Back when I lived at 205 Margaret Avenue 'Chuggy's at Barton' didn't exist it was all farmland. As I recall facing Lake Ontario that corner was hay fields, apple orchard, and grape rows over the railway tracks and all the way to the QE Highway. From the north side (lake side) of the QE Highway to the lake were huge strawberry and tomato fields. Fact is Margaret Avenue never went all the way to Barton as it does now. So as kids when we wanted to go swimming at the lake we simply crossed over to Millen Road on our bikes.
> 
> Fully aware of the ongoing restoration of the CPR clock in Moose Jaw although climbing the stairs is out of the question. Flip side wouldn't I love to do just that. LOL


Sounds like a great time and great place to grow up, seems now there is a lot of wartime house in the area but with the way "progress" has taken over hard to believe there ever was fields out there.



Dusty said:


> CLARIFICATION:  I was born Monday, January 3, 1938 in Hamilton, ON. My 84th birthday this year also fell on Monday January 3rd 2022.
> 
> 3pm, Thursday, January 6th, 2022, just back from hospital and my therapist informs me there has been minimal increase (almost unnoticeable) right knee movement over the last five week period. So she gave me an Interferential Current (IFC) treatment meaning electrical current which increases blood flow, improves healing by reducing swelling (extra circulation takes it away), and removes damaged tissue. Stimulation of local nerve cells and may elicit mild muscle contraction. Water retention is a huge concern although I'm on pee pills for that.
> 
> Shall have a better idea where I'm at overniIght or up to 24 hours later. She also mentioned me seeing my surgeon again, oh no not that!



I have used the interferential in the past for my back and it helped, in the end I bought one and a handheld ultra sound unit that I have used for flare ups with good success, hopefully it will help you get back going, that's too long for you to be hobbled up.
I hope you had a good birthday.


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## Chicken lights (Jan 7, 2022)

Hey, do you guys think you could shut the windows next week? Maybe throw a log on the fire? Dispatch is making noise about wagons west again. ‘Preciated if it wasn’t -45 when I’m there


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## Dusty (Jan 7, 2022)

combustable herbage said:


> Sounds like a great time and great place to grow up, seems now there is a lot of wartime house in the area but with the way "progress" has taken over hard to believe there ever was fields out there.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



@combustable herbage - when I was ready to retire from the air force in 1977 my older brother tried to talk me into settling back home. Looking to the future our parents bought two empty lots right next to our home so one was left for the asking. When I enlisted with the RCAF in 1955 there were no more than 25 homes both sides of Margaret Avenue starting from #8 highway to 205 Margaret Avenue heading towards the lake. Simply loads of vacant lots all around ours.

Where does one obtain a reliable IFC without spend hundreds of dollars like hospital therapy units must do? Would like to take a look at some.


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## YYCHM (Jan 7, 2022)

Chicken lights said:


> Hey, do you guys think you could shut the windows next week? Maybe throw a log on the fire? Dispatch is making noise about wagons west again. ‘Preciated if it wasn’t -45 when I’m there



Quite mild in Calgary for the next two weeks FINALLY.  -10C stuff.


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## Dusty (Jan 7, 2022)

YYCHM said:


> Quite mild in Calgary for the next two weeks FINALLY.  -10C stuff.


 
And heading east one would assume.


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## 6.5 Fan (Jan 7, 2022)

Somebody throw a few more tires on the fire please. That east wind this morning was brutal.


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## YotaBota (Jan 7, 2022)

Dusty - belated birthday wishes young feller and hoping for a speedier recovery, may the (air) force be with you.


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## combustable herbage (Jan 8, 2022)

Dusty said:


> Where does one obtain a reliable IFC without spend hundreds of dollars like hospital therapy units must do? Would like to take a look at some.


I ordered from these guys it was gulp probably 20 years ago but everything arrived safely then and both units I bought are in service with limited use in say the last 5 years.   They still have the same ultrasound that I have but looks like the interferential is a bit different, if you didn't already know there is a difference between the tens and the interferential as the interferential goes deeper.
Check them out might be something for you.



			Ultrasound Unit, Ultrasound Machine, Portable Home Ultrasound Unit,


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## historicalarms (Jan 8, 2022)

unfortunately Dave, the forecast for our frigid temps is for them to move eastward over the next couple days so you will probably have to drive thru them but as for Ab. the forecast is quite mild (at least compared to what we've been getting) into the foreseeable future


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## YYCHM (Jan 9, 2022)

Chicken lights said:


> Hey, do you guys think you could shut the windows next week? Maybe throw a log on the fire? Dispatch is making noise about wagons west again. ‘Preciated if it wasn’t -45 when I’m there



Anything more on this?  Wagons west... yes, no or don't know yet?


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## Chicken lights (Jan 9, 2022)

YYCHM said:


> Anything more on this?  Wagons west... yes, no or don't know yet?


I’ll know more tomorrow, the plan last week was to head out Tuesday. These loads are usually a go, tho


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## YYCHM (Jan 9, 2022)

Chicken lights said:


> I’ll know more tomorrow, the plan last week was to head out Tuesday. These loads are usually a go, tho



What is it?  Pipe again?


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## Chicken lights (Jan 9, 2022)

YYCHM said:


> What is it?  Pipe again?


That’s my guess 

Dispatch mumbled something about a trombone


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