# Horizontal band saws, do you use coolant or run dry?



## John Conroy (May 17, 2020)

I bought my 7 X 12 band saw a couple of years ago as a step up in size from a 4 X 6. The old saw had no provision for coolant and I ran it dry for years. When I got the larger saw, which is set up for coolant, I decided to run it dry also to reduce the mess. Recently I used a friends saw at his shop. It's pretty much the same saw as mine but he uses coolant. The difference was amazing, it was so much faster çutting and much more quiet. So I ordered some Sawzit 2000 coolant (that's what my buddy uses) with my last KBC order to try it on my saw. I had no idea what ratio of water to mix with it. The product says it will work from 5-1 to 30-1 so I started at 5-1. I've been using it with a small trickle of coolant for a couple of weeks now. I have not changed blades but it is cutting  much faster and is very quiet now compared to when it ran dry. I'm sure blade life will be extended as well. 
I'm curious as to what other's are using and what mixing ratios. I haven't had a problem with spillage as the drip tray on the saw seems to work well. I'd  like to hear your thoughts on this subject.

https://www.kbctools.ca/itemdetail/1-123-205


----------



## DPittman (May 17, 2020)

I've got a 7x12 saw also and when I got the saw I had read what other were doing about coolant.   I read many times (on various forums) about guys insisting that they ran their saws dry and had for years and got excellent blade life. 
I have always used collant with mine and although I believe those fellows that claim excellent life with their dry running blade, I can not see how using coolant can't be better and certainly not an ounce worse.
However....
I do have coolant splash and drip on my floor but in my shop thats manageable and OK.  I've also had the coolant tank get disgusting stinking slime globs and the dead moths and flies that collect in it just make it that much worse. I've used a pinch of bleach in the mixture and I think that helped but probably is not recommended. 

I have used the princess auto cutting fluid but now using some Texaco cutting fluid that is not as stinky.  I suspect that there big differences in the quality of cutting fluids and believe some of them have antibacterial/ fungal properties to help with tank life.

I think your observance of a quieter and faster cut is enough reason alone to use fluid.


----------



## DPittman (May 17, 2020)

DPittman said:


> I've got a 7x12 saw also and when I got the saw I had read what other were doing about coolant.   I read many times (on various forums) about guys insisting that they ran their saws dry and had for years and got excellent blade life.
> I have always used collant with mine and although I believe those fellows that claim excellent life with their dry running blade, I can not see how using coolant can't be better and certainly not an ounce worse.
> However....
> I do have coolant splash and drip on my floor but in my shop thats manageable and OK.  I've also had the coolant tank get disgusting stinking slime globs and the dead moths and flies that collect in it just make it that much worse. I've used a pinch of bleach in the mixture and I think that helped but probably is not recommended.
> ...



As far as ratios, mine is a wild ass guess to begin with but never as watery as they say you can use it at as I am afraid of rust.  The water also does evaporate over time so I have added water to a mixture after a year or so of using.


----------



## PeterT (May 17, 2020)

If you are doing bigger jobs & more often, flood might make perfect sense. Mine came with a rudimentary pump & tupperware tank so its a mostly closed loop. I tried it once a long time ago but I must have had 'stink' brand & I noticed rust in some nooks & crannies. So getting the proper juice is a step in the right direction. I have a squirt bottle I use for steel, contains has some kind of water soluble synthetic cutting fluid I'm basically using up because I don't trust it on the lathe. As the cut proceeds I just manually squirt the kerf. Its lame & less effective than flood but it works on small jobs. For aluminum I use WD40 with the straw tube & give it a shot in the cut every 30 secs or so. It helps a lot with tooth clogging. Sometimes fluid will cause chip buildup in weird places under the sheave cover so check there once in a while.


----------



## John Conroy (May 17, 2020)

I cut some aluminum and was impressed there was no tooth clogging on the fine tooth blade I use.


----------



## John Conroy (May 17, 2020)

I am keeping my eye on it for signs of rust but none has appeared yet


----------



## Tom Kitta (May 17, 2020)

I always used coolant on my 7 x 12 and now on a bigger one I always do as well. There is no mess like with a milling machine or even lathe and I know heat is generated as I can see steam rising from the area of the cut. Also any harder cut on harder metal without coolant will see blue chips - certainly no good for blade life. 

Anecdotes about blade life without coolant could be related to cutting lightly soft stuff - like aluminium. 

I just don't see any reason not too use coolant - in Calgary zone it does not even get hot enough to have things grow in your coolant so main loss is due to evaporation and to soaked chips. 

There can be some occasional spill of coolant when cutting longer stuff or pipe - but nothing major. 

I save squirt bottle for the vertical band saw - that is the one that has no flood coolant and current compressor is more or less dead with tiny air flow - I may replace it with something better in the future. Even here some coolant works great. I tend to use coolant whenever anything HSS touches work.


----------



## CalgaryPT (May 17, 2020)

This is another great debate that's showed up on many forums over the years. I too have a 7x12 (King Swivel Base). I did a lot of research when I bought it, including talking to an Ellis rep., because Ellis too sells swivel base models. Their "American" made saws cut dry, and rumour has it (see link below) the warranty is void if you add coolant. I seriously question this; it sounds like a convenient marketing invention to me. Supposedly their blades are optimized for dry cutting." Oh, guess what? Ellis blades are about 3X the cost of everyone else, so as I always say..._If something doesn't make sense, it's because somebody's making money.  And it ain't you. _

I have an Ellis belt sander I love, but I just question this logic.

Some recommended ratios: https://www.detroitbandsaw.com/resource-library/coolants-cutting-fluids/
Some ratio insight: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=288040
No recommendations, but good theory on coolants: http://www.zebraskimmers.com/oil_skimmer_products/metalworking_coolant_mixology.html
Ellis dry saw insights on a forum:  https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/bandsaw-cutting-without-coolant-214780/

Lots of guys swear coolant prolongs blade life, but I can't find any empirical data to back this up that isn't tied to a proprietary agenda (such as blades, coolant, saws, etc.) Personally, I use the PA coolant as well, but stopped fussing over ratios years ago. Firstly, no matter the ratio I've used, it never rusts. Economically you're wasting money on 5:1 ratios for bandsaws, especially as I've used 50:1 and see no difference. What I do know is that if your coolant is too concentrated it will foam. Like any coolant/oil this means it's not doing its job. I've used the same stuff on my lathe for steel with no issues.

More on the convenience side of things, I find coolant is messier at the tray to clean up, but less dangerous on the floor. By this I mean the chips tend to glue up in the tray rather than shoot all over the shop (a real issue if you have a dog who occasionally runs through). Anecdotally I've heard people say they get fewer broken teeth with coolant, but again no proof.

I'll continue to use coolant. Any ratio within manufacturer's spec seems to work fine for me. After 20+ years, I would have remembered if this was a big issue.


----------



## Tom Kitta (May 19, 2020)

I agree with everything CalgaryPT said.

If there is dry running only blade out there maybe they should work on coolant free drill bits next - that drill better when dry. Killer application would be lube free threading - would put out of business all these specialty threading lubricant makers.


----------



## Janger (May 19, 2020)

I use both with and without coolant. I generally run without as it's less of a mess. When cutting big stuff I turn it on. Your choice I think generally. I can't see I've noticed much difference in performance or noise. I'll try to pay more attention.


----------



## Dabbler (May 19, 2020)

@CalgaryPT has the right of it.  A few items to add:  the Ellis bandsaw uses non-sealed bearings for some reason.  If you use coolant, all the bearings bet buggered pretty quickly.  One of my correspondents bought an Ellis bandsaw that was messed up that way.

On my experience for what it's worth:  Bert never used coolant in a professional machine shop, and Roger, another friend with a  machine shop, used coolant on everything.  I've watched their operations for 40 years.  

When using coolant bandsaws seems to cut a little faster, chip clearing happens better on some materials like high carbon steels, but on tool steels they clump more using coolant.  I think blade life is a little longer, but not a lot more.  Where coolant shines is using very coarse carbide blades.  Then they cut a LOT faster (because you can run the blade speed up with coolant) and because of the big gullets, the chip evacuation is greatly improved by coolant.  Anyone for a 200$+ bandsaw blade?

A last comparison, nobody uses coolant on their vertical metal cutting bandsaws, and no one complains about blade life or cutting speed.

Therefore I don't use coolant on my horiz bandsaw.  If I use 10 or 20 more blades in my lifetime, it saves all that cleaning up, mixing and replacing coolant, and dealing with rust issues.  Too much trouble for too little (probable) gain.


----------



## PeterT (May 19, 2020)

That's a good comment on the bearings, hadn't thought of that. Mine look like plain vanilla conventional grease filled urethane shielded. They are usually covered in swarf crud but I don't think they get wet enough from carryover cutting fluid by my light spritzing to migrate in & cause issues. But maybe flood drip could possibly see potential for fluid to migrate in depending on the bearing & fluid orientation.


----------



## Tom Kitta (May 19, 2020)

My vertical needs a new blade ;( Maybe I use same blade I use on horizontal and see whatever there is a difference. Through I want to have more fine tooth blade on one machine then the other as cutting thing stuff with 7TPI is no fun and leads to broken teeth or stuff flying.


----------



## CalgaryPT (May 19, 2020)

I have some Ellis machinery (not bandsaw) with sealed bearings. The conspiracy theorist in me is the same person who wonders why companies warranty LED bulbs for 14 yrs. but the caps in them fail a few months after I throw the receipt away. 

I’ll assume it’s simply ignorance on Ellis’ side: they just didn’t know anyone is allowed to source the sealed ones for their expensive blades.


----------

