# Taper Turning Attachment for Standard Modern



## thestelster (Jan 14, 2022)

I recently finished up a taper turning attachment for my Standard Modern 16" Utilathe.  And it works!!  I utilized several different designs which I Googled.  Most of the material was from stuff laying around the shop, which means, cold rolled, hot rolled, O1, A2, aluminium.


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## Brent H (Jan 14, 2022)

@thestelster : nice job!

What is your wee wheel for on the flip up door for?  Visible in pic 1, 5, 6


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## thestelster (Jan 14, 2022)

Brent H said:


> @thestelster : nice job!
> 
> What is your wee wheel for on the flip up door for?  Visible in pic 1, 5, 6


Thanks Brent.  The small caster:  Originally, the lathe had a flimsy sheet metal back splash panel which only went down half the length of the lathe bed.  I decided to remove the sheet metal panel get a sheet of 3/4" plywood and bolt it on.  Which worked well.  I was able to bolt things right onto it, it was taller and longer it worked fine.  Until one day, I had to advance the cross slide past a certain point.  But wouldn't you know it, the chip guard on the cross slide came into contact with the new back splash panel.  I was not about the cut the chip guard, and I didn't want to cut a slot in the plywood, so I attached that caster to the chip guard.  So now when I advance the cross slide past a certain point, the caster makes contact with the plywood and and goes up the wall lifting the the chip guard with it.  It traverses lengthwise easily as well.  It's not perfect but works well enough.


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## ducdon (Jan 14, 2022)

Nice


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## Tomc938 (Jan 14, 2022)

Well done!  Nice work.


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## PeterT (Jan 14, 2022)

Nice, how does the cross slide leadscrew disengage on that model lathe?


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## RobinHood (Jan 14, 2022)

Nicely done. Beautiful grinding wheel balancer btw!

You had the advantage that your lathe bed was already designed (and machined) for the taper attachment. It probably came with one from factory but was lost at some point.


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## thestelster (Jan 14, 2022)

PeterT said:


> Nice, how does the cross slide leadscrew disengage on that model lathe?


Hi Peter, if you look at a couple of those photos, on the cross slide there is a flat magnet with a number 6 on it.  It covers up the hole that a bolt with an oil cup goes into which engages the lead screw nut of the cross slide.  The magnet is just there to prevent swarf from getting in.  So taking that bolt out allows the cross slide to run freely with the taper turning attachment.  I then turn the compound rest which allows me to move in the y axis.  Attached to the forward section of the cross slide I made that piece which has 3 holes spaced so that I can accommodate varying diameter round bar.


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## thestelster (Jan 14, 2022)

RobinHood said:


> Nicely done. Beautiful grinding wheel balancer btw!
> 
> You had the advantage that your lathe bed was already designed (and machined) for the taper attachment. It probably came with one from factory but was lost at some point.


Thank you RobinHood.    This is how I did the balancing of the grinding wheel.  I don't have a surface plate yet, so used the flattest/levelest surface I had, which is the milling machine table.  Even then, I had to shim the rear sections of the 2-4-6 blocks with 0.006" shims to get it perfect.  The balancing plate is on the other side, and I didn't take a picture unfortunately.

Yes, very fortunate for the rear t-slot.  The factory taper turning attachment was an accessory, and would have cost a pretty penny even in those days.


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## darrin1200 (Jan 15, 2022)

Nice design.
I have, I believe, an original taper attachment for my 10” Utilathe. I am starting to play around with it. Two questions.
1. You mention a bolt with an oil cup engaging the crossfeed lead screw nut. Is an oil cup there standard? My lathe uses the same bolt type connection in the same location, but it doesn’t have an oil cup. {note: I use a magnet to cover the hole as well}

2. What is the purpose of the spindle taper wipers. (My newbiness is showing through).


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## thestelster (Jan 15, 2022)

darrin1200 said:


> Nice design.
> I have, I believe, an original taper attachment for my 10” Utilathe. I am starting to play around with it. Two questions.
> 1. You mention a bolt with an oil cup engaging the crossfeed lead screw nut. Is an oil cup there standard? My lathe uses the same bolt type connection in the same location, but it doesn’t have an oil cup. {note: I use a magnet to cover the hole as well}
> 
> 2. What is the purpose of the spindle taper wipers. (My newbiness is showing through).


Hi Darrin, thank you.  That bolt had an oil cup, which dripped oil right on the crossfeed lead screw/nut.  But the tiny spring for the cup was broken, and the lid wouldn't keep closed, so I removed it and capped it with that blue tube end.  This way I can apply oil directly through the hole.  I'm not sure if the oil cup was factory installed, or if it was put in by the previous owner of the lathe.  I will eventually get new oil cups from McMaster/Carr.

The spindle wipers are MT5, MT4, and NMTB 40.  It was always a pain to get my fingers and cloths into the swindles when cleaning them out before installing new tools holders, centers, etc.  So I made these out of wood, then I wrap a single sheet of paper towel around the them, insert rotate a couple of times, repeat.  KBC sells them made out of plastic for about $45.00 each.


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## Brent H (Jan 15, 2022)

@darrin1200 : The 9, 10 and 12 inch Utilathe just has the bolt that retains the cross feed nut - no additional oil cup.  If you back up the cross feed it is pretty easy to apply lube to the cross feed threads just by opening up the cover door.  You could do it by taking out the bolt as well if you really wanted to.  The cross feed also gets lubed up by the oiler on the compound feed and things drip down through the works.


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## YYCHM (Jan 15, 2022)

The 9" Utilathe doesn't use a bolt to retain the cross feed nut...







It uses a 5/16-18 X 1 flat head socket cap screw and a countersunk washer.  An oil passage through the screw has me thinking though.


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## PeterT (Jan 15, 2022)

@YYCHM so when the flathead bolt is removed & table is now under taper guidance, I assume the table can now freely pass over the nut unobstructed? What does the circular boss engage if not a hole in the table?

That's kind of the mod I was thinking about for my 14x40 but its a bit more involved. My nut has a step which engages a recess on casting underside. It's meant to be permanent. The taper cutting lathe model has some different parts, so its not just about the rear mount taper attachment. At one point I had it drawn out but chicken to try because likely involves mods to the table too. That's why we are going to try it on @LRSbm146 lathe first HaHa.


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## Brent H (Jan 15, 2022)

Pictures should say it all....I should think?


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## YYCHM (Jan 15, 2022)

@PeterT 







You remove the screw and button (as I call it) from the x-slide and use it to attach the x-slide extension to the taper attachment shoe.  The x-slide is now detached from the x-slide nut.


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## darrin1200 (Jan 16, 2022)

Thanks @thestelster @Brent H 
I assumed there were channels to the screw from the oil points on the cross slide. It probably wouldn’t hurt to direct oil occasionally.

Taper Wipers {insert head smack here}. I actually have a green plastic mt2 wiper for wood lathe. It never dawned on me to make one out of wood. New shop project on the list, I need an MT4. Also a good way to practice with the taper attachment.


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## thestelster (Jan 16, 2022)

I'm working on a rifle barrel for a customer.  He purchased it but was not the contour that he wanted.  It's a Krieger barrel 30cal.  in a straight taper, not sure which taper.  I have to machine it to a Light Palma contour.  So I figure since I just finished making the taper turning attachment, lets use it.   I've attached a video, but not sure if it will work.


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## darrin1200 (Jan 16, 2022)

cool video. I had to save and unzip to watch it.

What is the purpose of the block of metal. does that help to mitigate deflection?


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## Tom O (Jan 16, 2022)

Something I found on Facebook for rifling Kentucky barrels.


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## thestelster (Jan 16, 2022)

darrin1200 said:


> cool video. I had to save and unzip to watch it.
> 
> What is the purpose of the block of metal. does that help to mitigate deflection?


Hi Darren, that is exactly right.  Because I'm turning a taper, you can't use a follow rest, so that is what that chuck of steel is for.   Without it, it was chattering like crazy.  You have to experiment with feeds, speeds, depth of cut, tool bit lead, etc.  But this works quite well most of the time.


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## thestelster (Jan 16, 2022)

Tom O said:


> Something I found on Facebook for rifling Kentucky barrels.
> 
> View attachment 19958
> View attachment 19959


Now that is cool!!


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## thestelster (Jan 17, 2022)

Well the taper turning is done!  Now to file and sand while still on the lathe, under power.  Then thread, chamber, cut to length and crown, bead blast, and install.

Overall I am extremely happy the way taper turning attachment worked.  Absolutely no issues, other than I had to move it a total of three positions to be able to taper the whole barrel.  Maybe I should make a taper turning attachment that is 28" in length...(no!!)  And by using the sine bar, it gave me perfect dimensions.  Two different tapers, 26" of tapered section.


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## Capnkel (Sep 23, 2022)

thestelster said:


> I recently finished up a taper turning attachment for my Standard Modern 16" Utilathe.  And it works!!  I utilized several different designs which I Googled.  Most of the material was from stuff laying around the shop, which means, cold rolled, hot rolled, O1, A2, aluminium.


I happen to have the same lathe,also without the taper attatchment.Do you have drawings of what you made that you could share?


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## thestelster (Sep 24, 2022)

Capnkel said:


> I happen to have the same lathe,also without the taper attatchment.Do you have drawings of what you made that you could share?


Hi @Capnkel I do not have any drawings or plans.  I basically winged it and used a wood mock up.  If you have a look at the pictures in this post, you will see all the items I used.  If there are any specific dimensions you want I can measure it for you.  Or if there is a specific detail you need, I can take some close up pictures.  I have used it quite a few times and I'm very happy with the way it turned out, it is accurate and works wonderfully well.  I was going to suggest you drop by and have a closer look if you were in the area, but I see you're in Maine.  Welcome.  I guess it would be a long drive


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## Capnkel (Sep 24, 2022)

If i was closer i would certainly swing by,its only about 11 hours drive,lol.I,m originally from Yarmouth Nova Scotia.You made reference to a couple plans you found online to help make yours,where might i find those ?


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## thestelster (Sep 24, 2022)

Capnkel said:


> If i was closer i would certainly swing by,its only about 11 hours drive,lol.I,m originally from Yarmouth Nova Scotia.You made reference to a couple plans you found online to help make yours,where might i find those ?


Well, if you're ever in the Toronto area, please feel free to drop by.

I found a few articles, but mostly pictures from Hardinge, Standard Modern, and several others, and incorporated some aspects of each.


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## Brent H (Sep 24, 2022)

@Capnkel  : the standard modern used a very similar taper attachment - all through the lines.  I have posted drawings for the original 9, 10 and 12 machines.  For the larger machines the theme stayed the same.  I will try and post the link to the drawings and some pics of the attachment on your type machine.


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## Brent H (Sep 24, 2022)

This is what the original would look like fitted to a 16” Utilathe. 

I will check on the drawings.


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## Susquatch (Sep 25, 2022)

Brent H said:


> This is what the original would look like fitted to a 16” Utilathe.



It looks to me like that taper attachment is only good for 12 inches or so. How difficult would it be to modify it to work over say 30 inches?


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## PeterT (Sep 25, 2022)

thestelster said:


> Well the taper turning is done!


Good job. I like the design features you incorporated. So does your particular lathe already have the type of leadscrew that detaches from the main cross slide nut, or did you have to modify that too?

BTW, what is the caster wheel for?


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## jcdammeyer (Sep 25, 2022)

PeterT said:


> Good job. I like the design features you incorporated. So does your particular lathe already have the type of leadscrew that detaches from the main cross slide nut, or did you have to modify that too?


I'm curious about that too.  How do you move the carriage with the taper?


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## thestelster (Sep 25, 2022)

This is what the caster is for.










						20220925_131710.mp4
					

Shared with Dropbox




					www.dropbox.com


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## jcdammeyer (Sep 25, 2022)

thestelster said:


> This is what the caster is for.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry.  I don't get it.  On a regular lathe:

The cross slide is moved in and out with a lead screw turning inside a nut that is fastened to the cross slide.  The handle and thrust bearing are part of the carriage.

That way you can push and pull on the cross slide and it won't move because the cross slide nut is anchored to the cross slide.  

Are you saying the back tray is lifted up un-pinning the cross slide from the nut mechanism?


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## thestelster (Sep 25, 2022)

jcdammeyer said:


> Sorry.  I don't get it.  On a regular lathe:
> 
> The cross slide is moved in and out with a lead screw turning inside a nut that is fastened to the cross slide.  The handle and thrust bearing are part of the carriage.
> 
> ...


Hi @jcdammeyer

I'm sorry, I've confused you  and others for sure.  Please go to post #3 of this thread, and it will give you a description of what that casters purpose is.


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## PeterT (Sep 25, 2022)

I think 2 separate things here but @thestelster can confirm. I think the caster is allowing the flap cover to ride up his back splash board & allow for full cross travel, otherwise it could dead end's obliquely. 
The disengage-able lead screw is a different issue. Some lathes have this capability but just no taper bar. Others (like mine, grrr..) you have to buy the entire assembly up front. That's why I'm curious if he did a mod. 

I have an idea that is would leave my leadscrew intact. It occurred to me when I was mulling a solid tool post. I'm going to mock it up with wood this winter before committing to metal.


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## PeterT (Sep 25, 2022)

...and post#8 answers my redundant question, sorry about that. I should have scrolled up


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## jcdammeyer (Sep 25, 2022)

thestelster said:


> Hi Peter, if you look at a couple of those photos, on the cross slide there is a flat magnet with a number 6 on it.  It covers up the hole that a bolt with an oil cup goes into which engages the lead screw nut of the cross slide.  The magnet is just there to prevent swarf from getting in.  So taking that bolt out allows the cross slide to run freely with the taper turning attachment.  I then turn the compound rest which allows me to move in the y axis.  Attached to the forward section of the cross slide I made that piece which has 3 holes spaced so that I can accommodate varying diameter round bar.


Ah.  I get it now.


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