# Craig's Craftex CX706 Comes Clean



## trlvn (May 15, 2022)

Some of you may remember that I started searching seriously for a new lathe in the 10-11" swing range a couple of months ago:









						10-11 inch lathes -- Precision Matthews, Modern Tool
					

Hi:  I'm edging toward upgrading from my tiny, beat-up Atlas 618 lathe and I thought I'd ask for input about new lathes.  Whatever I choose has to go down the basement stairs, including a 90 degree corner, and into the available space which is ideally 51 inches or maximally about 60 inches...




					canadianhobbymetalworkers.com
				




I'm happy to report that my new Craftex CX706 10 X 22 lathe arrived safely this week.  At Busybee in Mississauga, they forklifted it into the van I'd rented.  My son and I slide it down some 2X6's into the garage.  They say the gross weight is 160 kg (352 pounds) but it sure felt like more.  In the garaage, I opened up the crate and pulled out the parts that could be carried separately--2 chucks, face plate, tailstock, tools, etc.  

I planned to use a 2-wheel cart to move the machine to the basement.  In hindsight, renting a proper appliance dolly would have made it slightly easier.  I decided to leave the machine bolted to the base of the crate for the move since it was otherwise going to be very difficult to strap it to the cart.  In any event, my son, my daughter and I got it down the stairs (including a right-angle turn) and into the basement.  Only my son got his fingers pinched when we lifted it off the crate base and onto the bench*.   

Not that I also took the backsplash and gear train covers off for the move.  The gear train cover is just held in place by a couple of small studs--no where near strong enough to be a lifting point.  I was concerned the backsplash was going to make it more difficult to maneuver down the stairs and again it is not strong enough to be a lifting point.

I've spent a fair bit of time cleaning and lubing my new toys.  Disassembled both chucks; the 4-jaw had a large metal chip fouling one of the screws.  In the picture below, you can see some of the grit and dirty oil that was on the machine.  I disassembled, cleaned and lubed both the compound and the cross slide.  After adjusting the gibs, I think the operation is pretty smooth.

I wanted to take the gears off the banjo to clean and lube but I've put that off for now.  There was a Blondihacks video where she noted that the gears on her Precision Matthews lathe were and extremely tight to the studs to begin with.  I believe she used a reamer to ensure the hole in each gear was a good fit.  That would require a 14mm reamer (ideally spiral) which I don't have.  May need to buy one.

I'm also debating about changing the oil in the headstock and apron.  Now or wait until I've used it for a few months?

The next step is to retrieve the QCTP I ordered.  I had it delivered to a service just across the border in New York.  This will be my first crossing since the pandemic started.  Fingers crossed that it goes OK.  BTW, I'm 90% certain that I'll have to modify the compound slightly to fit the QCTP.  The tool post that comes with it sits on a boss that sticks up too high.  Should be no big deal to mill it down.

I also want to try taking some measurements.  I've ordered a test bar from India and the tracking says it will be here in 3 days.

Or course, I've played with the controls a bit.  All the basic functions seem to work OK.  The two knobs on the front (left-right travel and A-B-C feed speeds) don't give good feedback that they're engaged.  Also, the lever is quite stiff going from longitudinal to crossfeed modes.  I know you don't want to do by accident but it seems pretty sticky.

Craig

* No fingers were permanently harmed in the moving of the lathe.


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## gerritv (May 15, 2022)

Congratulations!


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## Chicken lights (May 15, 2022)

trlvn said:


> Some of you may remember that I started searching seriously for a new lathe in the 10-11" swing range a couple of months ago:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


From what I hear, (second hand rumour mill heard from a friend of a friend), the USA side doesn’t care about vaccination status nor do they ask about it 
Coming home, it depends on the border agent if they ask you to quarantine 

The confusing part, is I personally know a vaccinated person who returned to Canada, the border agent asked him to quarantine until a negative PCR test was obtained 

So, good luck, you probably won’t get hassled either direction, but I’m curious to hear your experience


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## YYCHM (May 15, 2022)

No tailstock


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## trlvn (May 15, 2022)

YYCHM said:


> No tailstock


I KNOW it was there just a minute ago!  

Craig


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## Gordie (May 15, 2022)

Sounds like you're having fun Craig. There's a Monarch 10EE near me, also a Shaublin 135. Now deciding to upgrade significantly from my planned Standard Modern. I may have to move to the country. I hope to have fun soon.


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## Degen (May 16, 2022)

trlvn said:


> Some of you may remember that I started searching seriously for a new lathe in the 10-11" swing range a couple of months ago:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Interesting about the tool post, on the cx707 it also uses the indexing pin for the tool post, but the bolt slides in a slot the cross slide.

I would suggest instead of machining your bolt, make a new one so you can always return to the old one in the event you upgrade, again.


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## 6.5 Fan (May 16, 2022)

Have fun, you are ahead of me on delivery, I got a call from BB in Calgary on Sat. saying they had my CX706 and were going to ship it soon. Small issue with delivery as i'm on a farm and truckers are scared to leave the highway, going to get it delivered to the local Co-op.


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## Susquatch (May 16, 2022)

trlvn said:


> Some of you may remember that I started searching seriously for a new lathe in the 10-11" swing range a couple of months ago:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You sound like a very HAPPY OLD MAN to me! 

Congrats! 

I can't wait to see your first project!!!


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## trlvn (May 16, 2022)

Thanks everybody.  BTW, I noticed the following on the back side of the bed when I was uncrating the lathe:






My guess is that the same castings for the combo lathe/mill and the machined mounting points would be for the mill portion.  Seems like a waste for them to machine flats, and drill & tap the mounting holes before they know what the castings will be used for.

Craig


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## gerritv (May 16, 2022)

Likely doesn't add much to machining time, plus it means there is only 1 sets of setups and one set of castings in the plant.


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## Rauce (May 16, 2022)

Looks like a great place to put a taper attachment to me


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## trlvn (May 16, 2022)

So I made the picked up my purchases from the border today.  As a bonus, the alignment bar from India was waiting at my door when I arrived home.  The haul:






The AXA QCTP set is from Precision Matthews as well as the live centre.  What I liked about their QCTP set is that it DOESN'T include a useless bump knuler and a next-to-useless angled parting tool.  It does come with 4 tool holders:  2 with and 2 without the bottom groove for boring bars.  I added another 4 tool holders to the purchase.  Per usable tool holder, I think the PM price compares quite favourably with other sources.

The alignment bar is from India via Amazon.ca:



			https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07NVKKXR2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1
		


Looks and feels nicely finished to me.  More on it later, I guess.

Crossing the borders -- this was my first jaunt across the US border since before the pandemic started.  I crossed at the Queeston-Lewiston bridge.  Going into the US, I told the agent that I was picking up a package at UPS in Lewistown.  He was obviously well familar with the routine because he asked me if it was an eBay purchase!  In addition to a couple of other quick questions, he did ask me for proof of vaccination.  I had printed this out earlier and held it up.  He didn't scan the QR code or even examine the page in any detail before he waved me through.

Before my trip, I downloaded the ArriveCAN app for my phone and filled out/uploaded my passport and vaccine information.  On crossing the border back into Canada, the agent took my passport but never asked about ArriveCAN.  I declared the stuff I was bringing back and he gave me the usual instructions on where to go to pay the HST.  There was no wait inside at the counters and I paid the amount owed and was on my way in a few minutes.  No questions about Covid whatsoever.  Just wanted to relate my experience.  Who knows what might happen at another pair of border stations!

Craig


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## trlvn (May 16, 2022)

Pictured below is my Precision Matthews AXA QCTP sitting beside the 4-way tool post that came with the lathe.






You know, you do the measurements and check what other people bought for the same lathe but it just reassuring to see that they are roughly the same size sitting side-by-side!

My current plan--subject to change--is to mount my parting/cutoff tool in the 4-way.  I think it should be just slightly more rigid than the QCTP and that a smaller lathe like this needs all the help it can get in that respect.  I might put the scissor knurler in the 4-way as well.  More because it is a pretty low-use tool.

BTW, I note that the screw for the 4-way is much lighter than one for the AXA QCTP.  The 4-way has an 8mm threaded portion while the QCTP uses a 9/16 inch screw (need to verify).  That's about 14.3 mm.  My initial thought is to modify things such that I can use the same screw for either tool holder.  I can open up the hole through the 4-way to the same diameter as the QCTP.  I think I'm going to have to make some slight modifications to the compound to capture the end of the hold down.  Need to do some 'ciphering!

Craig


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## gerritv (May 16, 2022)

Good news then. You could have dropped in on your way past St C 
I learned from many trips to CBI-USA to cross at the Rainbow bridge, more tourist oriented, many more lanes and can't recall ever paying HST on declared items. YMMV of course.

I persoanlly doubt the 4 way will be anything more than a paper weight, I'm not even sure where mine is 

Gerrit


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## Chicken lights (May 16, 2022)

trlvn said:


> So I made the picked up my purchases from the border today.  As a bonus, the alignment bar from India was waiting at my door when I arrived home.  The haul:
> 
> View attachment 23919
> 
> ...


They were pushing the ArriveCan app about a year ago, maybe 18 months ago? Used it 3-4 trips then nothing was ever mentioned about it, nobody at the booths ever cared 

Good to hear it was a clean trip, with no surprises


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## Dusty (May 16, 2022)

Chicken lights said:


> They were pushing the ArriveCan app about a year ago, maybe 18 months ago? Used it 3-4 trips then nothing was ever mentioned about it, nobody at the booths ever cared
> 
> Good to hear it was a clean trip, with no surprises



You mean to say one can drive from Oakville cross the border at Niagara Falls/Buffalo and haul back whatever duty free?

Here in Saskatchewan you can't bring a lollypop back duty free, you know the one in your kids mouth. LOL


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## Chicken lights (May 17, 2022)

Dusty said:


> You mean to say one can drive from Oakville cross the border at Niagara Falls/Buffalo and haul back whatever duty free?
> 
> Here in Saskatchewan you can't bring a lollypop back duty free, you know the one in your kids mouth. LOL


Depends on the time spent over there, I believe after 7 days it’s up to $800 duty free. 24/48 hours has their own rules 

But I was commenting about the ArriveCan app, I was surprised it was still in play, I haven’t used it in a really long time


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## combustable herbage (May 17, 2022)

trlvn said:


> Pictured below is my Precision Matthews AXA QCTP sitting beside the 4-way tool post that came with the lathe.
> 
> View attachment 23920
> 
> ...


Craig I had the same situation with my qctp in the end I put the bottom of the tool post in the lathe and turned a boss on it to retain the most threads, I opened up the hole in the compound to match the boss and I also milled out more area of the bottom of the compound to allow more meat on that part too.  I can take some pictures after work if you want after work.


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## trlvn (May 17, 2022)

combustable herbage said:


> Craig I had the same situation with my qctp in the end I put the bottom of the tool post in the lathe and turned a boss on it to retain the most threads, I opened up the hole in the compound to match the boss and I also milled out more area of the bottom of the compound to allow more meat on that part too. I can take some pictures after work if you want after work.



I'd love to see a few pictures.  I'm pretty sure I saw a Youtube video on the same topic but I can't locate it now.  I need to take the compound off my lathe and really see what I'm working with.  Seeing another solution would certainly help.

Craig


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## gerritv (May 17, 2022)

Just leave the compound off and make a solid one. You'll want that eventually anyway, might as well do it now


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## Six O Two (May 17, 2022)

Chicken lights said:


> But I was commenting about the ArriveCan app, I was surprised it was still in play, I haven’t used it in a really long time



I crossed a few weeks ago, and where I crossed here in BC ArriveCan was very much still in play. YMMV


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## Degen (May 17, 2022)

trlvn said:


> So I made the picked up my purchases from the border today.  As a bonus, the alignment bar from India was waiting at my door when I arrived home.  The haul:
> 
> View attachment 23919
> 
> ...


I have to smile as this looks like all the other AXA hardware.  I think they all come from the same source branded accordingly.

Good thing is the holders are interchangable.


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## combustable herbage (May 17, 2022)

Here is mine its 9/16 as well. I used the old tool post to make smaller temp post then built this one, lots of on and off with the compound but a fun project happy with the end result.


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## 6.5 Fan (May 19, 2022)

Got my CX706 uncrated yesterday, first impression on the crate was....oh crap. It is very generous to call this stuff plywood. Once i got the crap off i wanted to check the voltage requirement, states 220 only, look at the plug they supply and it is a standard 110 plug. What bull crap is that, had to go to city today so i picked up some 220 plugs. No point in wrecking something trying to run the motor with improper voltage.
 Didn't take my daughter and myself long to wrangle the crate downstairs, used 2x8's on the stairs and the winch on the polaris to lower it down. Pallet forks on the skid steer were great to set crate on the deck.  Machine looks ok so far, now to get it up on a bench and start cleaning.


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## trlvn (May 19, 2022)

6.5 Fan said:


> i wanted to check the voltage requirement, states 220 only


Sorry, where are you seeing a 220V requirement?  Mine runs fine on 110V.  The plate on the belt/gear cover says 110V, 10A.

Craig


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## Susquatch (May 19, 2022)

6.5 Fan said:


> Once i got the crap off i wanted to check the voltage requirement, states 220 only, look at the plug they supply and it is a standard 110 plug. What bull crap is that, had to go to city today so i picked up some 220 plugs. No point in wrecking something trying to run the motor with improper voltage.



I'd be real careful about that if I were you. It might well be 110. If you hook 110 to 220, you could easily fry the motor. I'd check the wiring really carefully first.

To be honest, failing that, if it has a 110 plug on it now, I'd try that first. It's much less likely to fry if it's incorrectly hooked to 110 than to 220.

It may have been built with 220, and rewired to 110 by the previous owner who didn't remove the tag.

Many lathes that size can be wired either way but usually come pre-wired one way or the other.

There is usually a wiring diagram right on the motor someplace.


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## DHHok (May 19, 2022)

6.5 Fan said:


> Got my CX706 uncrated yesterday, first impression on the crate was....oh crap. It is very generous to call this stuff plywood. Once i got the crap off i wanted to check the voltage requirement, states 220 only, look at the plug they supply and it is a standard 110 plug. What bull crap is that, had to go to city today so i picked up some 220 plugs. No point in wrecking something trying to run the motor with improper voltage.


My 709 said the same thing.  220v.  Trust me, it's 120v.  Don't rewire for 220.


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## Degen (May 20, 2022)

6.5 Fan said:


> Got my CX706 uncrated yesterday, first impression on the crate was....oh crap. It is very generous to call this stuff plywood. Once i got the crap off i wanted to check the voltage requirement, states 220 only, look at the plug they supply and it is a standard 110 plug. What bull crap is that, had to go to city today so i picked up some 220 plugs. No point in wrecking something trying to run the motor with improper voltage.
> Didn't take my daughter and myself long to wrangle the crate downstairs, used 2x8's on the stairs and the winch on the polaris to lower it down. Pallet forks on the skid steer were great to set crate on the deck.  Machine looks ok so far, now to get it up on a bench and start cleaning.


I just checked on the BB site and it says 110V 11amps, if you got it new in the crate the plug and wiring are tested at BB for the CSA electrical inspection (little red sticker near the motor controller at the rear of the machine as they approved here under an exception approval).









						LATHE 10IN. X22IN. METAL WITH DIGITAL READOUT CX706
					

Busy Bee Tools is Canada's largest Woodworking & Metalworking retailer. Find power tools, woodworking tools & metalworking tools at factory direct prices.




					www.busybeetools.com


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## 6.5 Fan (May 20, 2022)

On page 20 of the manual it says "the lathe is rated at 750w, 1ph, 230v only." also on BB web site under description for the machine it says 230v as well. Hence my confusion over the 110v plug. I am very sure 110volts is plenty adequate for a 750 watt motor, 230 isn't needed. I haven't got the machine up off the floor to check the motor plate, today it will happen. 
 Much easier for me if i don't have to wire in a 220v plug, my breaker box is just about full now. 110v it will be.


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## Susquatch (May 20, 2022)

6.5 Fan said:


> On page 20 of the manual it says "the lathe is rated at 750w, 1ph, 230v only." also on BB web site under description for the machine it says 230v as well. Hence my confusion over the 110v plug. I am very sure 110volts is plenty adequate for a 750 watt motor, 230 isn't needed. I haven't got the machine up off the floor to check the motor plate, today it will happen.
> Much easier for me if i don't have to wire in a 220v plug, my breaker box is just about full now. 110v it will be.



750 Watts is only 6-1/4 amps at 120V.  Won't be an issue at all. I sure as heck wouldn't bother running 220 for that. 

In fact, if it turned out that it really is wired for 230, I'd prolly reconfigure it for 120 just for the convenience assuming that is possible.


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## 6.5 Fan (May 20, 2022)

I need to get it up off the floor so i can get a good look at things. My knees do not react well to being on hard surfaces, or soft surfaces, plus i need something to help me get upright again.


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## Susquatch (May 20, 2022)

6.5 Fan said:


> I need something to help me get upright again.



A photo of my bride who is a great grandma would look after that little problem.......


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## trlvn (May 20, 2022)

6.5 Fan said:


> On page 20 of the manual it says "the lathe is rated at 750w, 1ph, 230v only." also on BB web site under description for the machine it says 230v as well.


You're right that both the printed manual and the pdf from Busybee's website do say 230V.  I don't see it on the web site, though.  On the CX706 page, it says:

SPECIFICATIONS

Motor: 1 HP, 110V









						LATHE 10IN. X22IN. METAL WITH DIGITAL READOUT CX706
					

Busy Bee Tools is Canada's largest Woodworking & Metalworking retailer. Find power tools, woodworking tools & metalworking tools at factory direct prices.




					www.busybeetools.com
				




BTW, there was a packing list stapled to the crate that mine came in.  The "Remark" line also specifies 110V:






This same basic machine gets sold in various markets around the world.  In a bunch of those places, 230V (mostly 50Hz) is the standard wall outlet voltage.  My guess is that Busybee hasn't done a good job of correcting the details of the manual*.  Precision Matthews supplies a better manual with their 10 inch machines that shows the source as "110Vac".  

Finally, there is a mini wiring diagram label on the back of my headstock that also says "AC110V".

Craig
* I'm sure that if you point out the discrepancy to Busybee, they'll leap into action to get it fixed!


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## Degen (May 20, 2022)

See my comments on the CX707 and downloading manuals from other sources for near similar products. PM actual shows the cost (retail) for some of the upgrades.  While BB is Canadian there are days I'd wish they get their act together in terms of manuals and product options.


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## Dusty (May 20, 2022)

Degen said:


> See my comments on the CX707 and downloading manuals from other sources for near similar products. PM actual shows the cost (retail) for some of the upgrades.  While BB is Canadian there are days I'd wish they get their act together in terms of manuals and product options.



I couldn't agree more, BB sucks big time.


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## 6.5 Fan (May 20, 2022)

Got the lathe up where i can work on things and clean, motor says 110v. it runs!!! May have to upgrade my toolbox/stand it's on. Got it where i want it now to get the casters off and solidly on the floor. That wee little chuck sure looks small compared to the big one on my shop lathe.


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## trlvn (May 22, 2022)

Chips, we have chips!

I finally got lathe pretty well cleaned up and lubricated, bolted to the bench and it was time to have at it.  The first thing I want to do is get the quick change tool post mounted.  I need a bigger, longer bolt for that so I decided to start with 5 inch 9/16-18.  The idea is to turn the head down to fit in through the compound like the original:







All I could get was a Grade 8 bolt and the interrupted cut seems to have knocked the cutting edge off my tool bit.  And what a pain finding shims to get it close to centre height.  Now I need to dig out the grinder and refresh the cutter.  Then finish reducing the head thickness and turn it to the right diameter.  

Still...CHIPS!!

Craig


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## StevSmar (May 22, 2022)

trlvn said:


> …I'm also debating about changing the oil in the headstock and apron.  Now or wait until I've used it for a few months?…


I changed the oil in my PM-1224T when I got it:
- to move it into the basement.
- it stunk and I didn’t want to antagonize my wife any further.
- there were some metal particles in the bottom of the headstock
- a friend said he’d done that with his new lathes.

After I did the run-in (10 minutes on each of the gears) there were very little metal particles on the magnets I’d put at the bottom of the headstock. I’ve run it for a few hours now, playing, so it probably will be ready for an oil change before winter.

Glad you got it successfully into the basement. Getting a 700lb lathe into the basement was a treat…


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## StevSmar (May 22, 2022)

trlvn said:


> The AXA QCTP set is from Precision Matthews as well as the live centre.  What I liked about their QCTP set is that it DOESN'T include a useless bump knuler and a next-to-useless angled parting tool.


My PM BXA set came with the useless bump knurler and the parting blade holder.

The bump knurler is a total piece of garbage, my lathe was not happy at all when I tried it. I wonder if I can modify it to hold a graving rest?

The parting blade holder seems to work ok though.


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## Susquatch (May 22, 2022)

trlvn said:


> Chips, we have chips!
> 
> I finally got lathe pretty well cleaned up and lubricated, bolted to the bench and it was time to have at it.  The first thing I want to do is get the quick change tool post mounted.  I need a bigger, longer bolt for that so I decided to start with 5 inch 9/16-18.  The idea is to turn the head down to fit in through the compound like the original:
> 
> ...



You sound just like the VERY HAPPY CAMPER that I would be if I were you! There is something about those first chips...... Oh ya! 

Congrats to you! 

I made the same part for another member who also has a new BB Lathe. 

It turns out that the bolt wasn't imperial.  It was really metric m16-1.5. I'd be checking that carefully if I were you. The nut that goes on that bolt is kinda special and I wouldn't be wanting to use anything else. 

Especially if you want to add a hand tightener arm later. 

I know you said that all you could find was Grade 8.  But why did you choose a Grade anything bolt? There is no need for grade anything on that bolt. The application is extremely low torque compared to what a bolt like that needs to handle. I ended up getting a standard 3/4" bolt and making a new one out of that. As a farmer, I can get bolts cheaper than stock so that's what I usually use anyway.


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## trlvn (May 22, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> It turns out that the bolt wasn't imperial. It was really metric m16-1.5. I'd be checking that carefully if I were you. The nut that goes on that bolt is kinda special and I wouldn't be wanting to use anything else.
> 
> Especially if you want to add a hand tightener arm later.
> 
> I know you said that all you could find was Grade 8. But why did you choose a Grade anything bolt? There is no need for grade anything on that bolt. The application is extremely low torque compared to what a bolt like that needs to handle. I ended up getting a standard 3/4" bolt and making a new one out of that. As a farmer, I can get bolts cheaper than stock so that's what I usually use anyway.


Argh, it really is a metric bolt!  The unthreaded portion of the bolt is/was a little bit over 14 mm (14.12).  And the 18 tpi gauge fit the threads really well. I didn't have any other 9/16-18 stuff around to check with.  It is so close that nut supplied with the QCTP threads onto the 9/16-18 bolt almost the full depth of the nut.  And then jams.  It must have 1.4 mm thread spacing--which I believe is completely non-standard!

The supplied nut is nothing special, though.  Just a hex nut with a flange.  (19mm wrench size but of course that's almost identical to 3/4 inch!)  I think I'm just going to use a 9/16-18 nut and bolt for this.  

Regarding the grade, I went to Bolts Plus because they almost always have fasteners in stock when I need something a bit different.  The guy there told me that 9/16-18 (aka UNF) is pretty uncommon.  The only ones they had in stock were Grade 8.  I had been thinking about starting with a socket head cap screw but he said they would have to special order something in that length and threading.  So rather than drive all over town, I took what he had.

I agree that the size and threading is utterly overkill for the application.  I thought about using an smaller bolt but then the QCTP wouldn't register well.  Would probably need to add a sleeve to keep it centred.  

Craig


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## Susquatch (May 22, 2022)

trlvn said:


> Argh, it really is a metric bolt!  The unthreaded portion of the bolt is/was a little bit over 14 mm (14.12).  And the 18 tpi gauge fit the threads really well. I didn't have any other 9/16-18 stuff around to check with.  It is so close that nut supplied with the QCTP threads onto the 9/16-18 bolt almost the full depth of the nut.  And then jams.  It must have 1.4 mm thread spacing--which I believe is completely non-standard!
> 
> The supplied nut is nothing special, though.  Just a hex nut with a flange.  (19mm wrench size but of course that's almost identical to 3/4 inch!)  I think I'm just going to use a 9/16-18 nut and bolt for this.
> 
> ...



I see. And I believe in my heart of hearts that I really do. This would be the third time I've hit this issue.

That thread is not very common. I think they do that on purpose. &#@$

A different diameter and thread creates other problems inside the tool post. Other members have tried that and didn't fare well. 

Basically, I would get a bigger bolt and use that to make a smaller one. You have a lathe right? So make a part that is easily made on a lathe! In this case, for itself. Just do a downtown job of measuring the original and duplicate it for the length and size you want. 

The difficulty of course is that you have to use the old tool post to do it. And that means a cycle of assembly / disassembly / PIA. 

But it really is a perfect little lathe project. 

Alternatively, you can measure it up, send the dimensions and info to me, and I'll make one for you shipping included. (Insert big happy susquatch smile here). 

That said, you really should just do it yourself! Make it a personal challenge to do it on the first crack.


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## Chicken lights (May 22, 2022)

trlvn said:


> Argh, it really is a metric bolt!  The unthreaded portion of the bolt is/was a little bit over 14 mm (14.12).  And the 18 tpi gauge fit the threads really well. I didn't have any other 9/16-18 stuff around to check with.  It is so close that nut supplied with the QCTP threads onto the 9/16-18 bolt almost the full depth of the nut.  And then jams.  It must have 1.4 mm thread spacing--which I believe is completely non-standard!
> 
> The supplied nut is nothing special, though.  Just a hex nut with a flange.  (19mm wrench size but of course that's almost identical to 3/4 inch!)  I think I'm just going to use a 9/16-18 nut and bolt for this.
> 
> ...


I didn’t know they made a UNF for 9/16? 9/16 is a fairly common bolt size I never gave that any thought. You’re right though on the tap chart they list it. 

In my non-engineering experience once you get to 1/2” you can tighten the snot out of it, to the point it won’t loosen. So the UNF argument of holding more torque is moot. 

Now I want to look at what I have at the shop, someone needed to borrow a 9/16 thread chaser and whatever I had to lend him worked 

The things you learn around here


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## trlvn (Jun 2, 2022)

I finally got enough time in the shop to get my QCTP mounted to the new lathe.  The following are the relevant parts:






At the top is the compound as it comes from the factory (ie with the boss and 10mm hole). Below that is the new 9/16" mounting 'bolt' that I turned. I had previously disassembled the factory components and carefully measured the head of the supplied bolt. It was a light press fit in the compound and I think it was secured with some LockTite. After a bit of heat, the arbor press convinced it to come out. Note that there is a small index pin (just visible at the bottom of the old part) that prevents it from rotating when you tighten the tool post down..  

To locate the existing hole, I used a short 10mm rod held in the drill chuck. BTW, I'd planned to do this drilling operation on the mill. But the 9/16" drill (shown above) is too big for the chucks I have on the mill which max out at 1/2". Only my drill press had a big enough chuck.  






The actual drilling went easily--cast iron is so sweet! I had expected the hole to be a little oversize bit it was a very snug fit on my new bolt.  

Now, I moved to the mill to remove the boss:






I did plunging cuts to remove the bulk of the boss. Only the final clean up cut was made using the rotary table.  This is the first time I've used my little rotary table 'in anger'!

I didn't want to use a large diameter end mill to remove the boss all in one cut since such cutters have a little relief in the centre and might leave a slightly higher surface towards the centre.  

All went well and a trial fit of the new parts is shown below:






Craig


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## trlvn (Jun 2, 2022)

There was just one more step:






I used LockTite to secure the new bolt in place and then drilled and tapped for a set screw to prevent it from turning or falling out. I used a fine thread set screw since the 'head' of the bolt is only about 0.150" thick and I wanted a few threads to engage. LockTite might have been enough by itself but I figured why not go all the way and provide a mechanical lock between the parts.

Here is the new quick change tool post in place:






Yes, I made the bolt a bit long and then forgot to cut it down before assembling everything with LockTite. I may still do that and modify the handle that came with the 4-way tool post to fit the new bolt.

Seems to work well.  You can see that I'm done a couple of test cuts without running into any problems.

Craig
(Apologies if you saw a version of this post on another site.)


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## Proxule (Jun 2, 2022)

Lovely thread, thanks for sharing


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## 6.5 Fan (Jun 3, 2022)

I may have to get one of these QCTP in the future. Still moving my CX706 around to decide where i want it.


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## Susquatch (Jun 3, 2022)

trlvn said:


> There was just one more step:
> 
> View attachment 24279
> 
> ...



I've never seen a compound with a locating post on top of it like that. Usually, they are flat or have a t-slot. The difficulty of making a compound with that feature on it makes me wonder what the post was for. This makes me wonder if it wouldn't have been better to bore out the tool post to accommodate the post on the compound......

It's also interesting to me that so many BB users are making this modification in various ways. I've done it myself for two other people now and several members have done it too. You have to wonder why BB doesn't smarten up and make the cross slide adaptable to either kind of tool post. Then they could sell the better tool post as an optional upgrade. 

Anyways, very nicely done and nicely documented too.


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## Rauce (Jun 3, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> I've never seen a compound with a locating post on top of it like that. Usually, they are flat or have a t-slot. The difficulty of making a compound with that feature on it makes me wonder what the post was for. This makes me wonder if it wouldn't have been better to bore out the tool post to accommodate the post on the compound......
> 
> It's also interesting to me that so many BB users are making this modification in various ways. I've done it myself for two other people now and several members have done it too. You have to wonder why BB doesn't smarten up and make the cross slide adaptable to either kind of tool post. Then they could sell the better tool post as an optional upgrade.
> 
> Anyways, very nicely done and nicely documented too.


My last lathe, a Churchill Cub III from the 50's had a boss system like that for the original 4 way tool post. Though the boss fit in a bore and could be removed. So in that case modifying the compound for a QCTP didn't require permanent metal removal. 

I think the T slot type compound is a remnant of the old lantern tool posts that were standard way back and that also happen to work quite well with QCTPs


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## trlvn (Jun 3, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> I've never seen a compound with a locating post on top of it like that. Usually, they are flat or have a t-slot. The difficulty of making a compound with that feature on it makes me wonder what the post was for. This makes me wonder if it wouldn't have been better to bore out the tool post to accommodate the post on the compound......
> 
> It's also interesting to me that so many BB users are making this modification in various ways. I've done it myself for two other people now and several members have done it too. You have to wonder why BB doesn't smarten up and make the cross slide adaptable to either kind of tool post. Then they could sell the better tool post as an optional upgrade.
> 
> Anyways, very nicely done and nicely documented too.



It wasn't feasible to bore out the QCTP as that would have removed a threaded section that holds the whole thing together!  (Boring it out had been my first plan.)

I believe Busybee sells a QCTP as an upgrade for this lathe.  I haven't examined one to see how they deal with the problem of the boss.  

I'm also curious if the boss is present on other import lathes.  The Precision Matthews 10 inch, King Canada, Grizzly, Harbour Freight and others are very clearly manufactured from the same set of castings as my Craftex.  I know PM supplies a QCTP with their version of the lathe as well as the 4-way toolpost.  I asked on the PM forum on HobbyMachinist about this issue but didn't get an answer.  I suspect that PM does a similar modification to each of the lathes that they sell but I don't know for sure.  Incidentally, if the 4-way toolpost that PM includes is to be useful, I believe they would have to drill it out to the same size as the QCTP.  

Craig


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## YotaBota (Jun 3, 2022)

trlvn said:


> But the 9/16" drill (shown above) is too big for the chucks I have on the mill which max out at 1/2".


Most drill bits have soft shanks that can be turned down in the lathe, I've done this a few times to clean off the burrs from spun chucks and have turned 1/2" shank down to 3/8"shank. I know, a little late but this project but there will be others.
Is there enough meat to bore and tap the original handle to fit the new bolt?


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## trlvn (Jun 3, 2022)

YotaBota said:


> Is there enough meat to bore and tap the original handle to fit the new bolt?


Yes, there seems to be lots of meat in the hub of the old handle to be able to convert it to the new threads (1/2-13).  Yet another little side project!

Craig


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## trlvn (Jun 7, 2022)

@Canadium posted about a push-style oiler in another thread which reminded me that I had gotten a similar one in an auction box lot.  I cleaned it up today and I'm actually very pleased with the way it works with the ball oilers on my CX706.

       #26     

My oiler, a Umeta 43, had been used for grease so I used mineral spirits and brake cleaner to clean up the innards. 






The tip of my oiler was too big to fit the oil ports on the lathe.  I was surprised to find that the tip is hardened steel.  Files wouldn't cut it at all.  Eventually, I put a little grinding stone in my Dremel and successfully 'sharpened' the tip to the necessary size.  What size is that, you ask?  Just about 2.6 mm.  I poked a 2.6 mm hole through a scrap of aluminum and used that to test the fit of the tip so I wouldn't have to keep moving it in and out of the lathe chuck.






And here it is:






It delivers a nice size shot of oil with a single push stroke.  There is just the slightest amount of weepage were the piston goes into the body of the oiler. 

But alas...there are 2 oil ports that are in the bottom of the T-slots on the cross-slide.  The tip of the oiler is too big get down into the T-slot so I can't reach them.  Argh.  For now, I'm going to use the oil can that came with the lathe for those 2 ports and wipe up the mess that results.

Craig


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## Susquatch (Jun 7, 2022)

trlvn said:


> @Canadium posted about a push-style oiler in another thread which reminded me that I had gotten a similar one in an auction box lot.  I cleaned it up today and I'm actually very pleased with the way it works with the ball oilers on my CX706.
> 
> #26
> 
> ...



I saw something similar to that at @Brent H s place when I was there before the meet n greet. I don't believe he modified the tip like you did though.

I liked his and I like yours too.

For anyone else who is interested, these little greasers are available at most places that sell chain saws. They are used the grease the top rail guide.

Like you, one like that wouldn't fit all the oilers on my lathe either. Especially not the one that lubricates my cross-slide handle. It's under another part and it can only be accessed from an angle and won't depress the ball stop if approached head on. I'm stumped.

We need a collective solution for this problem that will work for all of us and all the whacky places we have to get oil to. If happily spend a little coin to get something that worked better than what I have.


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## GlenG (Jun 7, 2022)

combustable herbage said:


> Craig I had the same situation with my qctp in the end I put the bottom of the tool post in the lathe and turned a boss on it to retain the most threads, I opened up the hole in the compound to match the boss and I also milled out more area of the bottom of the compound to allow more meat on that part too.  I can take some pictures after work if you want





trlvn said:


> It wasn't feasible to bore out the QCTP as that would have removed a threaded section that holds the whole thing together!  (Boring it out had been my first plan.)
> 
> I believe Busybee sells a QCTP as an upgrade for this lathe.  I haven't examined one to see how they deal with the problem of the boss.
> 
> ...


I was able to bore out my QCTP by 1/4" and then reduced the boss on my CX706, then drill and tap for the stud.  I can still use the original tool post if I want with a custom stud.


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## Degen (Jun 7, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> I saw something similar to that at @Brent H s place when I was there before the meet n greet. I don't believe he modified the tip like you did though.
> 
> I liked his and I like yours too.
> 
> ...


Sorry correction here they are used to grease the from sprocket on the bar along with the bearings in the clutch (repaired chainsaws and built log cabins during
My UNIV days).


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## trlvn (Jun 7, 2022)

GlenG said:


> I was able to bore out my QCTP by 1/4" and then reduced the boss on my CX706, then drill and tap for the stud.  I can still use the original tool post if I want with a custom stud.


It seems that piston-style QCTPs can be modified the way you did.  My wedge-style would have very little holding it together if I did that.  

Craig


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## Susquatch (Jun 8, 2022)

trlvn said:


> It seems that piston-style QCTPs can be modified the way you did.  My wedge-style would have very little holding it together if I did that.
> 
> Craig



Makes sense. All the ones I worked on were piston style.


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## Susquatch (Jun 8, 2022)

Degen said:


> Sorry correction here they are used to grease the from sprocket on the bar along with the bearings in the clutch (repaired chainsaws and built log cabins during
> My UNIV days).



Ya, I know how it works. My terminology just wasn't perfect. What I called the top rail guide is actually a sprocket at the end of the bar. But that quibble doesn't matter - the point I was making is that you can get one of these little greasers at most places that sell and service chainsaws.


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## Chicken lights (Jun 8, 2022)

Degen said:


> Sorry correction here they are used to grease the from sprocket on the bar along with the bearings in the clutch (repaired chainsaws and built log cabins during
> My UNIV days).


I know the tool you’re talking about, nobody ever greases bar tips. Run ‘em till they blow and replace the tip 

Grease attracts/holds dirt, arguably greasing bar tips shortens life so arguably no grease is better


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## Degen (Jun 8, 2022)

Never blew a tip, but have worn out a bar or 2,  grease when I fill gas and chain oil.

Its part of maintenance for best performance, just like oil for lathes and mills, lubing your ways is the same.

BTW When that sprocket blows it can tear the chain, I've seen the injuries when that happens, I'll pass on the injuries.  Lube it is.


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## Chicken lights (Jun 8, 2022)

At most they burr up a few teeth, I’ve never seen a chain get wrecked blowing a bar tip. We used to get 20-30 minutes of run time on one tank of gas, nobody is carrying a grease gun to lube a bar tip that often, doesn’t matter if you’re in the bush or up a tree all day, it’s not practical


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## Susquatch (Jun 8, 2022)

Chicken lights said:


> At most they burr up a few teeth, I’ve never seen a chain get wrecked blowing a bar tip. We used to get 20-30 minutes of run time on one tank of gas, nobody is carrying a grease gun to lube a bar tip that often, doesn’t matter if you’re in the bush or up a tree all day, it’s not practical



Holy Crap! It's amazing to me what kinds of discussions we get into on here sometimes.

Ive always held the view that the bar should get lubed before every use - one squirt on each side, rotate the chain manually a bit and another squirt on each side.

I used my saws for days on end through many many many tanks of fuel and never greased them more than that once before use each day. So no, I don't take the grease with me.

Frankly, I'm prolly much more likely to be guilty of running my saw without chain oil. That flipping tank is just too small and there is no warning that its empty. And it doesn't seem to matter if I use summer, fall, or winter oil. Winter oil seems to disappear way too fast so I rarely use it. I think it's designed for the north pole. I wish they sold Jungle oil. And before everyone goes ape on me for buying cheap saws, I've had my share of cheap saws, but have switched to Industrial  grade Husquavarna or Jonsored saws for the last 40 years or so.

I'm no full time lumber jack, but I use a chain saw a LOT. Enough so that I own a chain sharpener (looks a lot like a chop saw with a grinding wheel).

But it gets interesting. I actually think @Chicken lights might be on to something. The very first thing to go on each and every chain saw I ever owned is the bar itself. It wears thin and then starts warping till the saw won't cut straight anymore. And that's despite a crap load of chain oil in there and daily greasing.

Why is that? Is it normal or is that dirt and grit getting trapped in grease? I have no idea. But I can see arguments both ways. Glad I didn't design chain saws for a living......

Edit - I have a Husqy bar on my big saw right now that needs to be replaced. When I do that, I'll take the old bar apart and see if I can figure out what it's cause of death was.


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## Chicken lights (Jun 8, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Holy Crap! It's amazing to me what kinds of discussions we get into on here sometimes.
> 
> Ive always held the view that the bar should get lubed before every use - one squirt on each side, rotate the chain manually a bit and another squirt on each side.
> 
> ...


Couple things- the replaceable tip bars are considered the “pro” bars, the non-replaceable are “homeowner” grade bars. Is there that much difference in the bar rail quality? I don’t know for sure, but my experience is more with “pro” saws

Cutting crooked- your drive sprocket, chain, bar rails and bar tip work together, once your bar rails get a little loose and your chain gets a little thinner it introduces slop from side to side that a new bar/chain won’t give you, however you can generally still cut straight with worn gear. 

Sharpening- you have hook, drags and cutter angle. Hook is how shallow or deep you’re filing (grinding), drags is the funny piece ahead of the cutter for depth of cut (think wood plane), cutter angle is exactly that. I’m a fan of the Oregon file guides, I never caught on to filing free hand. If your hook drag and cutter angle are even it shouldn’t matter if you have a new link next to a half worn link it “should” cut the same 

If you really wanted to be geeky they sell different gauge chain drive links, so in theory an 0.053 bar that’s sloppy you switch to an 0.058 chain (numbers from memory) but again nobody that I know of does that 

Bar oil- most saws are designed to get two gas fills for one oil fill (roughly), but anytime the saw was empty we filled both as habit, I agree in summer it seems to eat it and it’s a PITA but we never ran them dry, even hydraulic oil or used engine oil was better than nothing. They smoke like a chimney running hydraulic oil 

I guess also cutter angle should be straight across, some guys cheat and file a duck bill which sorta works but it’s more work to fix once you hit steel or a rock


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## Susquatch (Jun 8, 2022)

I just skimmed a few logging forums for info on greasing chain saws. 

I have no idea how knowledgeable the members there are. My review is just a cruise of what is there. 

First of all, it seems there are three types of bars. I did NOT KNOW THAT! Solid bars with no chain gear, replaceable gear ends, and non replaceable gear spot welded bars. Lots of different opinions of treatments for each. 

Seems to be a mixed bag of sentiments. 

Some say never grease - just use till it wears out. Some say grease occasionally. Some say grease religiously. 

Some who switched methods say they started greasing and failed bars and others say the opposite. I found zero technical advice at all. All purely anecdotal. Im sure the OEM's all say to grease regularly. 

Regarding dirt in the gear most seem to suggest the grease sort of pushes it out and away. Sort of the same way farm equipment bushing grease works. I dunno - plunge cutting can't do that I don't think. 

Can't wait to hear what our own membership thinks.....


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## Susquatch (Jun 8, 2022)

Chicken lights said:


> Couple things- the replaceable tip bars are considered the “pro” bars, the non-replaceable are “homeowner” grade bars. Is there that much difference in the bar rail quality? I don’t know for sure, but my experience is more with “pro” saws
> 
> Cutting crooked- your drive sprocket, chain, bar rails and bar tip work together, once your bar rails get a little loose and your chain gets a little thinner it introduces slop from side to side that a new bar/chain won’t give you, however you can generally still cut straight with worn gear.
> 
> ...



Good stuff @Chicken lights . I read similar things on the logging forums.

I think I'll just continue to replace bars when they get loose or thin.

To be honest, I can't complain about my chain saw experiences. At least not since I stopped buying cheap saws. The good ones are worth the coin. They start, they run, and they cut trees. The cheap department store ones don't start, don't run, and don't cut many trees. I think they are deliberately designed to do nothing more than improve my swearing skills.

I don't think any of my bars have had replaceable noses. I will have to look into that. Who knows, it might even improve my bar life!


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## Chicken lights (Jun 8, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> I just skimmed a few logging forums for info on greasing chain saws.
> 
> I have no idea how knowledgeable the members there are. My review is just a cruise of what is there.
> 
> ...


Most saws also (or at least the “pro” lines) also have an adjustment for the bar oiler, to increase or decrease the flow 

Proper chain tension is key, too, while we’re talking chain


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## Susquatch (Jun 8, 2022)

Chicken lights said:


> Most saws also (or at least the “pro” lines) also have an adjustment for the bar oiler, to increase or decrease the flow
> 
> Proper chain tension is key, too, while we’re talking chain



Ya, both mine have an oil adjustment. Both are set to minimum. It's still too much. 

I religiously keep my tension adjusted for a small gap but not enough to let the chain clear the guide. That means an adjustment after a few minutes of use. 

Hey, I should take a second here to promote my favorite chain saw of all! It's a 20V Dewalt Rechargeable Saw. It's amazing. It's always ready to go on a moments notice. Electric start...... LOL! And it's more than enough saw for the odd small job. I love it! You would never use it to saw up a big tree for firewood, but for sawing the odd branch or cutting a tree that fell into a farm field into moveable chunks, it's the cat's ass! I use mine so much that I've worn it out in two years. But I'm not complaining. I'm just gunna go buy a new one! It was worth every penny I paid for it on sale, price matched, at TSC (now Peavy Mart).


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## Degen (Jun 8, 2022)

For about 4 years I worked for a friend of mine servicing tree service saws and selling them (Jonsered and Huskies mostly) as a student.

There is a special tool to pinch bars back into shape (as the slots wear or the users pry's with them and causes them to spread).  The second biggest issue is bar wearing unvenely than this causes spread (both wear induced and actual physical spreading).  The solution is check and grind it square as required and most spread or wear spread can be avoided.

I all my years I have never had to replace a tip (personal tip) , chains and a few bars yes, but no tips.

My saw of choice is a Jonsered 920 (90cc) with an 18" bar balance, little vibration 18-19lbs (not an up the tree saw).  Had it since new, cuts like a beast which it is.

Trick to setting tension is know which side you cut on (top or bottom) and apply pressure to that side as you set the tension.  If you are cutting both sides (tree service) adjust the best you can and don't bais the tension either way.

BTW the chain oil greatly reducess bar wear, even if it seems excessive.


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## trlvn (Jun 14, 2022)

Little update.  I'd mentioned much earlier that I wanted to be able to use the 4-way tool post that came with the machine.  The QCTP is taller overall than the 4-way and so I sized the threaded stud for that.  To use the 4-way, I needed a "washer" a little over an inch thick!  Super simple job but it gave me an excuse to try blackening. 

I found that a store 20 minutes from me carries Jax "Iron, Steel & Nickel Blackener" for a reasonable price:









						Jax Iron Steel Nickel Blackener
					

Produces an antique metallic black finish on iron, steel and nickel. Color: BlackenerProperties APPLICATION INSTRUCTIONS Metal surface must be cleaned of all lacquer, oil, wax, and grease. Gloves should be worn to prevent surface contamination. JAX Iron, Steel and Nickel Blackener should be...



					sculpturesupply.com
				




Before and after pictures below:









Very pleased with the result.  I'll be doing this a lot in the future!

And the parting tool works really well in the 4-way tool post.

Craig


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## DPittman (Jun 14, 2022)

trlvn said:


> Little update.  I'd mentioned much earlier that I wanted to be able to use the 4-way tool post that came with the machine.  The QCTP is taller overall than the 4-way and so I sized the threaded stud for that.  To use the 4-way, I needed a "washer" a little over an inch thick!  Super simple job but it gave me an excuse to try blackening.
> 
> I found that a store 20 minutes from me carries Jax "Iron, Steel & Nickel Blackener" for a reasonable price:
> 
> ...


That does look good.  I've only had used gun "blue" (copper sulfate?) and it sort of works but doesn't come out that black and rich.


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## trlvn (Jun 20, 2022)

Meandering tale of woe follows...

A little backstory...I had a 0XA-size QCTP on my old Atlas 618.  One of the first things I did back then was get a 3d-printed dial indicator holder.  I really liked it.  It made it a breeze to dial in parts in the 4-jaw chuck and check how far off centre a part was both near the chuck and at the free end.  Quick and simple.  The 3D model came from Thingiverse (free) and I printed it at a local library (about $10 for the use of the printer).  The only drawback was that printing took hours and the library didn't want the user to wander off while the print was in progress.

With that experience in hand, I looked for an AXA-size dial indicator holder for this lathe.  There weren't a lot of models on Thingiverse but I eventually settled on one.  Through Kijiji, I found a guy 20 minutes away that offered to print it for $14.  Great, I thought.  That beats a full day hanging around the library.  After a few days, he had the part done and I picked it up.  That's when the devil started popping out of the details.

First, the indicator was supposed to be secured to the holder via a screw through the lug on the bottom.  On all my indicators, that hole in the lug is offset from the back of the indicator by the same amount.  And none of them fit the printed holder.  The difference was about 0.1 inches, give or take.  Also, the indicator holder had a curved relief area that was supposed to clear the round dial.  Not enough.  To get around these problems with fit, I actually did a little offset turning (picture one section of a crankshaft) that accounted for the misalignment and spaced the indicator out enough so that the dial would fit.

But that wasn't the only problem.  When I got the indicator into the holder and onto the QCTP, I found that: a) the indicator was held too high such that the plunger was above the center line of my lathe, and b) that the indicator was held too close to the centre such that the tip of the indicator was past center even with the cross slide fully wound out.  

So I decided to give up on the printed holder and try again.  I selected another model that was based on one that Blondihacks had created.  Her Precision Matthew's machine is almost identical to my Craftex.  On Thingiverse, they call it a "remix" when someone creates a new model that is just a minor modification of another model.  I chose a remix of her model as it seemed to incorporate a couple of minor tweaks that would improve on the original.  Visually, it seemed to place the indicator further away from center so I hoped that would alleviate the one problem.

My guy (in Milton) printed the second indicator holder for me.  It's better...but still far from perfect.  It too holds the indicator too high above center and while it is slightly better than the first one, the tip of the indicator's plunger is still just past center even with the compound fully wound out:






To work around the height problem, I milled away a corner of the indicator holder:






If I put a bigger part in the lathe (like a flywheel casting or whatnot) this setup isn't going to work.  I won't be able to easily get the indicator in position to check for runout.

Eventually, I think I'll make my own indicator holder out of aluminum.  One of my auction box lots included a dovetail cutter that, I think, is sharp enough for aluminum.  Then I too can waste a bunch of stock trying to cut an appropriate size dovetail!  (That's my takeaway from another thread on this site!)

Craig


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## trlvn (Jun 20, 2022)

BTW, not all 3D-printed parts are a problem.  I also had my guy print a tray to hold my lathe's change gears.  That worked out really well:






The empty slots are for the gears that are currently on the lathe.  Beneath each slot the print shows the number of teeth on the gear.  If I had really steady hands, I might be able to use something like nail polish to make the lettering stand out better.  Nonetheless, I'm quite happy with the tray.

Craig


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## Susquatch (Jun 20, 2022)

trlvn said:


> Then I too can waste a bunch of stock trying to cut an appropriate size dovetail! (That's my takeaway from another thread on this site!)



I totally love your change gear holder. I'd really like one like that for mine. 

May or may not be my post that you refer to. Here is the wasted stock from my Toolpost Grinder Tool Holder. I prefer to think of all that waste as future parts hiding inside the scrap. LOL! 






I freely confess that part of designing the fixture was developing a process (with help from other members) that maximized the useful "scrap" at the end of the project. 

Here is the final part too. 






I like the concept for your indicator holder too. I usually prefer to use a dial test indicator on a NOGA magnetic holder attached to the tool post or cross-slide.


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## Rauce (Jun 20, 2022)

trlvn said:


> Meandering tale of woe follows...
> 
> A little backstory...I had a 0XA-size QCTP on my old Atlas 618.  One of the first things I did back then was get a 3d-printed dial indicator holder.  I really liked it.  It made it a breeze to dial in parts in the 4-jaw chuck and check how far off centre a part was both near the chuck and at the free end.  Quick and simple.  The 3D model came from Thingiverse (free) and I printed it at a local library (about $10 for the use of the printer).  The only drawback was that printing took hours and the library didn't want the user to wander off while the print was in progress.
> 
> ...


An indicator with less travel, like 0.5”or 0.25” might give you a bit more room. 

I know when I had one printed for my AXA toolpost some of the models were designed around a smaller indicator (both in travel and dial size).


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## Canadium (Jun 20, 2022)

trlvn said:


> I found that a store 20 minutes from me carries Jax "Iron, Steel & Nickel Blackener" for a reasonable price:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Has anyone ever tried using some old dark evaporust as a steel blackener??? I was really impressed recently at how black it made my shiny steel parts!!!


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## trlvn (Jun 20, 2022)

Rauce said:


> An indicator with less travel, like 0.5”or 0.25” might give you a bit more room.
> 
> I know when I had one printed for my AXA toolpost some of the models were designed around a smaller indicator (both in travel and dial size).


You are right about the shorter travel dial indicators leaving more room.  I have one that would fit (a "Baker" with 1/2 inch travel) except that the little lock knob for the dial is on the opposite side from my other indicators and fouls against the body of the indicator holder.  I don't _really_ need the lock gizmo.  I just know that if I take it off, it will be lost forever.  That might end up being a worthwhile tradeoff.

One of the 3D models that I looked at referred to some specific model of Shars indicator that would apparently fit...and no others.  The comments seemed to indicate that Shars appears to have discontinued that model.

Craig


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## 6.5 Fan (Jun 20, 2022)

Made a big mess of my 706 today, decided to totally drain the gearbox oil, that means taking off the front panel as the drain plug is 3/4"above the bottom. A lot of paper towels later to soak up the oil that i didn't catch and i got to examine the gear box internals. Lots of black gunk in the bottom. I may put in a lower drain hole for the future. The apron drain is on the bottom so no issue there except getting small dish to catch the oil. Plan on picking up a QCTP in the near future.


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## Susquatch (Jun 20, 2022)

6.5 Fan said:


> Made a big mess of my 706 today, decided to totally drain the gearbox oil, that means taking off the front panel as the drain plug is 3/4"above the bottom. A lot of paper towels later to soak up the oil that i didn't catch and i got to examine the gear box internals. Lots of black gunk in the bottom. I may put in a lower drain hole for the future. The apron drain is on the bottom so no issue there except getting small dish to catch the oil. Plan on picking up a QCTP in the near future.



I do not understand why drain holes, sight holes, and fill holes are not a better deliberate part of the plan for all machinery. 

It could always be worse though. My Bush-Hog ( brush cutter / stalk chopper) has no drain at all. Gotta turn that sucker upside down to drain it. Worse, the fricking thing accumulates condensation all summer / winter long and when that freezes, there goes the bottom bearing! And worse still, the gearbox has dual chambers (top and bottom) so you can't even suck the fricking thing out. I just want to scream!


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## Susquatch (Jun 20, 2022)

6.5 Fan said:


> Plan on picking up a QCTP in the near future.



What's on there now? You gunna be another member making a post to retrofit an AXA or BXA Tool Post? Need some tips?


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## trlvn (Jun 20, 2022)

6.5 Fan said:


> Made a big mess of my 706 today, decided to totally drain the gearbox oil, that means taking off the front panel as the drain plug is 3/4"above the bottom. A lot of paper towels later to soak up the oil that i didn't catch and i got to examine the gear box internals. Lots of black gunk in the bottom. I may put in a lower drain hole for the future. The apron drain is on the bottom so no issue there except getting small dish to catch the oil. Plan on picking up a QCTP in the near future.


What did you get for gear oil?  Are there actually yellow-metal gears in the headstock?  

From the earlier discussion on gear oil, I went into Commercial Oil in Hamilton last week and got 4 litres of Lubriko-Gear EP 100 in preparation to change the oil on mine:






$28 all in.  But the guy had me quite confused.  I asked about Mobilgear 627 and he talked non-stop for a good 10 minutes about fully synthetic and this and that.  To me, this is a pretty low-stress environment for gear oil.  As long as it isn't going to attack the metal in my gears, I would think that almost any oil would do a decent job.  The web page for this oil says "non-corrosive to steel, brass, bronze and other common bearing materials".  A fully synthetic oil was going to be 4X the price!

Incidentally, as I was about the leave I noticed that they have 4L jugs of cutting and tapping fluid.  The guy said they are about $30.  They also had jugs that included "Way" in the name.  I didn't ask (because I was afraid of another 10 minute spiel!) but I'm guessing this might be way oil.  And I already have a lifetime supply of way oil.  

Craig


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## trlvn (Jun 20, 2022)

To be clear, the guy at Commercial Oil wasn't trying to up-sell me.  He just seemed to like to talk about oil.  He also seemed to be able to talk without ever having to pause to breathe! 

Enthusiastic, not predatory.

Craig


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## 6.5 Fan (Jun 21, 2022)

Gears are shiny silver color, didn't see any sign of brass gears or bearing bronze bushings. Without tearing it apart i couldn't tell what was used for bearings. I have many different oils on the farm, will likely go with Precision Matthews 75w80 recommendation. The gears could use a deburring, in fact a lot of parts on these machines need a going over to smooth things up.


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## 6.5 Fan (Jun 21, 2022)

Went and looked at the Precision Matthews manual i printed off, well worth it, it shows the bearing/bushings in the gear box but doesn't say what material they are made of.


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## trlvn (Jun 28, 2022)

@gmihovics was kind enough to help me out with a couple more 3D-printed parts.  I was looking for something to help organize the drill chucks and centres for the lathe.  I'd found a holder on Thingiverse that was almost right except that it didn't actually have a MT2 tapered hole.  @gmihovics modified the design and produced the following for me:






I'd also found a design for a holder so you don't have to have 3 hands when measuring an awkward part with a micrometer.  You can just barely make out that there is a screw at the back that clamps the micrometer in the holder.  Works well for the style of micrometer shown but wouldn't be able to clamp on a classic Starrett or Moore and Wright mic that has a cast metal frame.  The picture also shows a couple of the MT2 holders before they were mounted on the wall.






Many thanks to @gmihovics.  It was great to meet him briefly today.  

Craig


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## gmihovics (Jun 28, 2022)

oh the micrometer stand looks really good! I'm glad it ended up fitting.

It was great to meet you too Craig. I'm looking forward to meeting more of the members.


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## Canadium (Jun 29, 2022)

Very cool! Does tooling ever fit so tight in these holders they get stuck? Is it possible to get stl files for this design or for that matter an MT3 version? What is the infil %?


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## trlvn (Jun 29, 2022)

Canadium said:


> Very cool! Does tooling ever fit so tight in these holders they get stuck? Is it possible to get stl files for this design or for that matter an MT3 version? What is the infil %?


As a matter of fact, the tools do stick.  If I just pull up, it is not easy to dislodge them.  Weirdly, I find that if I press up on the portion sticking out the bottom, the tool comes out pretty easily.  

@gmihovics would there be any problem with wiping a bit of oil in the holders?  Oil won't dissolve this material, right?

Craig


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## gmihovics (Jun 29, 2022)

trlvn said:


> @gmihovics would there be any problem with wiping a bit of oil in the holders? Oil won't dissolve this material, right?


That's a good question actually, I have never thought about that. Oil shouldn't be a problem along as long as it doesn't have any detergents in it I would think.


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## gmihovics (Jun 29, 2022)

Canadium said:


> Is it possible to get stl files for this design or for that matter an MT3 version?


I'll post the stl file today and then post the link here in the thread. I'll take a stab at an MT3 design really quickly too.



Canadium said:


> What is the infil %?


I just used 15%, I did increase the perimeters to 4 though. it's also just printed in PLA.


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## Susquatch (Jun 29, 2022)

trlvn said:


> Weirdly, I find that if I press up on the portion sticking out the bottom, the tool comes out pretty easily.



Prolly the same reason you can push screw driver bits out of their plastic holder but it's harder than a frozen tree stump to pull them out. Just guessing it's all in the way you deform the holder when you hold it.....???


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## DPittman (Jun 29, 2022)

trlvn said:


> As a matter of fact, the tools do stick.  If I just pull up, it is not easy to dislodge them.  Weirdly, I find that if I press up on the portion sticking out the bottom, the tool comes out pretty easily.
> 
> @gmihovics would there be any problem with wiping a bit of oil in the holders?  Oil won't dissolve this material, right?
> 
> Craig


Just remember to ipe off oil residues from Mt taper before using.


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## Canadium (Jun 29, 2022)

trlvn said:


> As a matter of fact, the tools do stick.  If I just pull up, it is not easy to dislodge them.  Weirdly, I find that if I press up on the portion sticking out the bottom, the tool comes out pretty easily.
> 
> ....
> 
> Craig



Can't help wondering if internal ridges were in the design maybe that would reduce the sticking by reducing the surface area in contact? A design improvement?


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## trlvn (Jun 29, 2022)

Canadium said:


> Very cool! Does tooling ever fit so tight in these holders they get stuck? Is it possible to get stl files for this design or for that matter an MT3 version? What is the infil %?


I haven't looked at them closely but there are a bunch of MT3 designs on Thingiverse for free:









						Search Thingiverse - Thingiverse
					

Download files and build them with your 3D printer, laser cutter, or CNC. Thingiverse is a universe of things.




					www.thingiverse.com
				




Craig


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## gmihovics (Jun 29, 2022)

ok, here are the STL and STEP files for MT2 and MT3 holders.






						Printables
					






					www.printables.com
				




thank you to @trlvn for letting me butcher his photos


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## trlvn (Jul 4, 2022)

So, I couldn't leave 'well enough alone'!  The 3D printed indicator holders worked OK-ish.  Bu I wanted to check the run out on the perimeter of my 3-jaw chuck and found that I could get the tip of the indicator far enough away from the center line to get on the chuck.  After a little head scratching, it came to me that basically a "T" shaped holder in a spare quick change tool holder would let me position the indicator pretty much where I wanted.  With a 0.5 inch thickness, it would fit in the holder and be thick enough for the 3/8" stem of a standard indicator.  I found I'm lacking 1/2 inch aluminum, which was my first choice, but then remembered that I have a box of 'plastic' cutoffs from an auction a few years ago.

This is what I threw together:






I think the material is a nylon (?).  It is aggravating to work with.  It cuts not that badly but the swarf is partially melted and forms large burrs on the edge of the piece.  Same problem whether cutting on the table saw, band saw or milling machine.  Easy enough to remove with a razor knife but it makes it hard to see what you're doing while working.  

The following is a super-brief video of it in action:

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AgYZqfsw641WgSpFhxsER6Csxh-j?e=2787JG

Craig
(Could we allow embedding videos from Microsoft OneDrive?)


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## Susquatch (Jul 4, 2022)

@trlvn - simple but very effective. It is hard to tell from the photo. Is the indicator end split horizontally and then clamped over the indicator shaft with that small screw?


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## trlvn (Jul 4, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> @trlvn - simple but very effective. It is hard to tell from the photo. Is the indicator end split horizontally and then clamped over the indicator shaft with that small screw?


Yes, there is a wing nut on the bottom.

Craig


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