# Nuts!



## trlvn (Nov 27, 2021)

Well, really, just one nut!  Can anybody in the west GTA lend my something to get a 2-3/16" nut off the top of my mill/drill's spindle?

Boring back story...

So I'm finally closing in on moving my mill/drill down to the basement.  @Canadium lent me his engine hoist.  I've pulled off the power feed, DRO, X and Y tables and the motor.  I finally realized that the only reasonable way to pick up the head with the hoist is to remove the belt cover.  That means the spindle pulley must come off.  The 2-3/16 nut securing the pulley is far bigger than any wrench or socket I have.  Even bigger than my slip-joint pliers.  I even tried latching onto it with a 6" C clamp but the flats on the nut are too small to get a solid grip.

Canadian Tire had nothing.  Home Depot has a 15 inch adjustable that MIGHT be big enough.  Is says 2 inch capacity but appears to open slightly wider.  Maybe enough but I'm probably going to take a trip to Princess Auto tomorrow.  Their web site shows both an 18" adjustable and a socket (1 inch drive) that might work.  Of course, I don't have any other 1" socket stuff--they ought to have a simple L bar, right?  Couldn't find that on their web site.

BTW, I'm worried about how hard it is going to be to get this pulley off.  A lot of stuff on this machine has been torqued WAY tighter than needed.  The screws in the retainers at the end of the X and Y lead screws were so tight I though the Allen wrench was going to break.  Total overkill.  

Craig
PS Some people might use a chisel to walk the nut off.  That's a hard no from me.  No.  H@ll no.


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## YYCHM (Nov 27, 2021)

Post some pictures please, I'm not following

Got a pipe wrench?

How did you get it out of basement in the first place?


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## trlvn (Nov 27, 2021)

Too dark for pictures right now.

This one was not in a basement.  I brought it home with a lift gate truck and parked it temporarily in the garage.  "Temporarily" has been over 2 years now!  For the sake of marital harmony, it would be a good thing if "we" could get that parking space back!!

Craig


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## YYCHM (Nov 27, 2021)

trlvn said:


> Too dark for pictures right now.
> 
> This one was not in a basement.  I brought it home with a lift gate truck and parked it temporarily in the garage.  "Temporarily" has been over 2 years now!  For the sake of marital harmony, it would be a good thing if "we" could get that parking space back!!
> 
> Craig



Two years


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## Chicken lights (Nov 27, 2021)

trlvn said:


> Well, really, just one nut!  Can anybody in the west GTA lend my something to get a 2-3/16" nut off the top of my mill/drill's spindle?
> 
> Boring back story...
> 
> ...


Measure it and I might have the right socket. I’m pretty sure I’m good up to 2-1/2” for sockets


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## YYCHM (Nov 27, 2021)

trlvn said:


> Too dark for pictures right now.
> 
> This one was not in a basement.  I brought it home with a lift gate truck and parked it temporarily in the garage.  "Temporarily" has been over 2 years now!  For the sake of marital harmony, it would be a good thing if "we" could get that parking space back!!
> 
> Craig



This one?  https://canadianhobbymetalworkers.com/threads/craftex-milling-machine.1553/


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## trlvn (Nov 27, 2021)

Actually, the Busy Bee manual has a parts diagram that shows the nut.  Number "2" below with the arrow.


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## trlvn (Nov 27, 2021)

Chicken lights said:


> Measure it and I might have the right socket. I’m pretty sure I’m good up to 2-1/2” for sockets


It measures 2.150 which I believe is in the tolerance for 2-3/16 (aka 2.188).  OTOH, you are near Elmira*, right.  That's over a 3 hour round trip.  I appreciate the offer but that's a bit far.

Thanks,  I still owe you for helping get it loaded when i bought it!

Craig

* I did a project at Martin Feed Mills in the early 1980's!


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## trlvn (Nov 27, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> This one?  https://canadianhobbymetalworkers.com/threads/craftex-milling-machine.1553/


Yup


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## YYCHM (Nov 27, 2021)

That's the same thing as my machine.  Have you removed the head from the column, what are you trying to lift?


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## Susquatch (Nov 27, 2021)

I could ship one to you by o/N courier on Monday and then you return it regular post.......

Nice thing about the big sizes is that bigger than ideal still works. 

All farm stuff has big nuts......

LOL


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## trlvn (Nov 27, 2021)

Susquatch said:


> I could ship one to you by o/N courier on Monday and then you return it regular post.......


I appreciate the offer but the shipping costs would be more than the price of a tool at Princess Auto.  And I really want to get this done ASAP.  

Craig


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## Susquatch (Nov 27, 2021)

No problem. If it turns out they don't have what you need, the offer still stands. The alternative is a drive down to Chatham or I could even meet you half way..... 

Love to help if I can. I certainly have equipment big enough for it.


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## YYCHM (Nov 27, 2021)

RF30 Basement Install
					

Darn it Craig I wish I would have thought of this before you started to tear her down...you could have driven to my place again and using all my lifting capabilities here, in an hour we could have had that thing in 6 manageable pieces and back in your truck...I think I have an old warehouse hand...




					canadianhobbymetalworkers.com
				




What are you trying to lift?  A chain passed through the column should suffice.


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## trlvn (Nov 27, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> RF30 Basement Install
> 
> 
> Darn it Craig I wish I would have thought of this before you started to tear her down...you could have driven to my place again and using all my lifting capabilities here, in an hour we could have had that thing in 6 manageable pieces and back in your truck...I think I have an old warehouse hand...
> ...


Appears to be the same nut as shown in your thread:








Craig


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## trlvn (Nov 27, 2021)

Do you remember if the nut is left or right hand threaded?


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## YYCHM (Nov 27, 2021)

Ya, I used a pipe wrench to get the the nut off, it was the pulley that gave me grief.


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## trlvn (Nov 27, 2021)

I only have a small pipe wrench.


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## YYCHM (Nov 27, 2021)

trlvn said:


> Do you remember if the nut is left or right hand threaded?



I think it was standard RH, but it didn't take much to get it loose with a pipe wrench.

@David_R8 might remember, he pulled his as well.


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## Susquatch (Nov 27, 2021)

Photo *looks* right handed.


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## trlvn (Nov 27, 2021)

Susquatch said:


> Photo *looks* right handed.


Maybe I'm paranoid but I just watched the last few Vintage Machinery videos where Keith Rucker nearly stripped a massive nut by trying to go the wrong direction.  He then had to drill out the threaded shaft because he'd forced the taper so tight that it refused to be pressed.  I can't afford that kind of mistake!

Craig


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## trlvn (Nov 27, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> What are you trying to lift? A chain passed through the column should suffice.



Mine may be a little different.  I'm trying to separate the head and column where it bolts to the base casting at the line shown below:





Otherwise, I think it is too much weight for my son and I (well OK, me mainly) to get down the basement stairs.

I can picture a chain going down the column...but what did you secure it to in order to lift the head?

Craig


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## YYCHM (Nov 27, 2021)

trlvn said:


> Maybe I'm paranoid but I just watched the last few Vintage Machinery videos where Keith Rucker nearly stripped a massive nut by trying to go the wrong direction.  He then had to drill out the threaded shaft because he'd forced the taper so tight that it refused to be pressed.  I can't afford that kind of mistake!
> 
> Craig



Well Ya, don't get silly with it.  You're going to find that keeping the spindle from rotating while you torque the nut is a challenge as well.  I think I used a crescent wrench on the spindle plines as it torqued the nut loose with the pipe wrench?


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## YYCHM (Nov 27, 2021)

trlvn said:


> Mine may be a little different.  I'm trying to separate the head and column where it bolts to the base casting at the line shown below:
> View attachment 18576
> 
> Otherwise, I think it is too much weight for my son and I (well OK, me mainly) to get down the basement stairs.
> ...



That assy is going to be close to 200 lbs.


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## DPittman (Nov 27, 2021)

trlvn said:


> Do you remember if the nut is left or right hand threaded?


 On my DRILL press spindle it is left hand


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## trlvn (Nov 27, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> That assy is going to be close to 200 lbs.


So you recommend...what?


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## YYCHM (Nov 27, 2021)

trlvn said:


> So you recommend...what?



Got stairs to go down?









						RF30 Basement Install
					

Some thing is not adding up here.  I've been weighing everything I strip off this mill with a bathroom scale and came up with this so far.  Motor and mount               60 lbs Table, screw and gib           83 lbs Column                               98 lbs Head (sans belt cover)        90 lbs...




					canadianhobbymetalworkers.com


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## historicalarms (Nov 27, 2021)

A couple feet of common 1/2" fine tread ready rod dropped through the center of the spline shaft and a couple flat washers that fit flat to the spindle nose and a couple nuts threaded on the ready rod to keep it from pulling back through and then a chain/cable eye threaded onto the top end and lift the head free of the column....lightest you can make it I think. 
     Then do the chain dropped down through the column trick Craig mentioned (all you need is to hook the chain hook to the chain creating a small loop, now just run a rod through the loop so it catches across the tube opening) to move the base and column as a single piece ( you don't have to remove the column & chance changing the "plumb" of the machine).

     I have moved my entire mill without removing the head, using the chain drop down the column trick for at least 4 moves.


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## Susquatch (Nov 27, 2021)

trlvn said:


> So you recommend...what?


I have done the chain trick on my mill/drill which is massive by comparison. Just put an eye ring on the end of the chain, drop it down the column and then slip a bar through the eye. Then I lifted my entire mill/drill with my overhead. Worked just fine.

A smaller subset should work for you too.

An appliance dolly works wonders for moving big stuff up and down stairs.


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## trlvn (Nov 28, 2021)

I found the following write-up ages ago and have been using it to guide my planning:





__





						Moving An Enco RF-30 Mill/Drill
					





					rick.sparber.org
				




@historicalarms That's an approach I haven't seen mentioned elsewhere.  The only quibble I have is that my spindle is R8 with a 3/8" drawbar.  That would be the max I could pass through, no?  Still might be workable.  

Also, to clarify, I don't have _any_ chains.  I do have a heavy lifting strap.  

My plan for lifting was to pass the strap down through the head casting at the point shown with the arrow below, around a chunk of 2X4 and back up.  






Very easy to secure, pretty close to balanced, and I could either lift the head free of the column or remove both the column and head from the base this way.  Sparber's write-up estimates the head at 110, the column at 85 and the base at 100 pounds.  I was planning to strap the head and column to a 2-wheel cart as the head by itself is the most awkward piece to hold onto.  Strapped securely to the cart, I think my son and I could get it down the stairs safely.  Two guys, one step at a time.

Re column alignment, I haven't mentioned before but 'Bubba' stripped one of the 4 bolts securing the column to the base casting.  The previous owner welded up a bracket for the DRO display and used 2 of these bolts to attach it to the machine.  I presume he was the one to strip the threads in the casting.  I'm planning to buy a 7/16 helicoil to patch it up.  Going to a bigger bolt size won't work as there is no room for a bigger bolt head.

Craig
(Hope this posts OK.  The site has been acting up this morning.)


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## Susquatch (Nov 28, 2021)

Easy she goes. You will be fine.


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## terry_g (Nov 28, 2021)

Those bolts that hold the column to the base are very important as far as rigidity are concerned.
Is there enough material to go to a bigger bolt with an allen head or a twelve point head?
I would not reuse the original bolts as they may not be the grade that s stamped on the head.


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## YYCHM (Nov 28, 2021)

Susquatch said:


> An appliance dolly works wonders for moving big stuff up and down stairs.



To a point... we just about lost it moving my 400 lb shaper down the stairs.


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## trlvn (Nov 28, 2021)

terry_g said:


> Those bolts that hold the column to the base are very important as far as rigidity are concerned.
> Is there enough material to go to a bigger bolt with an allen head or a twelve point head?
> I would not reuse the original bolts as they may not be the grade that s stamped on the head.


I don't have any experience with helicoils but I understand they're used on engine blocks and whatnot.  They must make a pretty solid repair, no?  

Good suggestion on going to larger size allen head bolts.  I hadn't considered that route.  I'll inspect the casting after I get it apart and decide which way to go at that point.

I got a wide-opening adjustable wrench at Princess Auto this morning so I'm about to see what the nut wants to do this afternoon.  

Craig


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## terry_g (Nov 28, 2021)

Helicoils are a good permanent fix. Tap the hole far enough and put two in.
Lube the threads and put the bolts in and torque them to the correct Spec.
for that size and grade of bolt.


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## Tom O (Nov 28, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> To a point... we just about lost it moving my 400 lb shaper down the stairs.


That’s why I made this it fits in the doorway (when it’s open) supported by both ends in the door jams and the winch hooks in the middle. When in use there is a plywood base (full length) almost as wide as the stairs this sits on the landing and extends over the stairs (3 1/2‘, 4’) that is supported by a 2x6 box keeping it level. To use it first the plywood is put in place that gives you about 4’ overhang over the stairs supported by the 2x6 box to keep it level now the machine can be rolled in place onto the landing when it is in place the frame is put in position and hooked up to the winch then remove the 2x6 box and it can be tipped to slide down the stairs. We used straps so it wouldn’t just slide on the plywood.


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## trlvn (Nov 28, 2021)

The right wrenches make all the difference.  Got the nut off with no problem...Bubba left this one alone!  Is IS a left-handed thread, though.  Here is what I used:






I have a user-made spindle wrench that came with a box lot of milling cutters and whatnot some time ago.  Totally paid for itself today.  

After that, all it took was a little bit more than hand torque with the gear puller to pop the pulley off the top of spindle.

Since there has been more interest than I expected, I'm going to start a new thread with some more photos of the move.

Craig


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## Susquatch (Nov 28, 2021)

trlvn said:


> The right wrenches make all the difference.  Got the nut off with no problem...Bubba left this one alone!  Is IS a left-handed thread, though.  Here is what I used:
> 
> View attachment 18605
> 
> ...



I have several of those adjustable wrenches from small to large. I LOVE them. They stay nice and square and adjust easily too. The small nose even acts a bit like a socket at times. GREAT choice!


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## Susquatch (May 21, 2022)

fadouacommitment said:


> Can you post some pictures in order to be more clear?



I am not home right now but you can see the wrench at the top right of the photo in this thread above. Here is a link. 









						Nuts!
					

Photo looks right handed.  Maybe I'm paranoid but I just watched the last few Vintage Machinery videos where Keith Rucker nearly stripped a massive nut by trying to go the wrong direction.  He then had to drill out the threaded shaft because he'd forced the taper so tight that it refused to be...




					canadianhobbymetalworkers.com


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