# Need a tool and die maker



## Robzee (Jan 7, 2021)

Hjj in hi, I am looking for a local Calgary connection to make me some stamps and dies.  I pour silver bars and rounds etc but need some stamps made such as a “999fs” and a “ozt”.  I am also starting work on a line of coins and I’d need dies for each side to be used in a press.  Anyone able to offer up some pricing to me.  Thanks in advance.


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## Chip Maker (Jan 7, 2021)

https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/sho...MI3uW_oKmK7gIVA77ACh1skwXSEAQYASABEgLq_vD_BwE

Would these work. Cheaper than having a die shop make you something.


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## Robzee (Jan 7, 2021)

Chip Maker said:


> https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/sho...MI3uW_oKmK7gIVA77ACh1skwXSEAQYASABEgLq_vD_BwE
> 
> Would these work. Cheaper than having a die shop make you something.


Thanks for the reply however I do have a few sets of these.  I’m looking to reduce the time taken to stamp by having one tool made to stamp 999fs and one to stamp ozt.  Also the dies I need for the coin are fairly specific.  Here’s a pic of the coin.


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## Chip Maker (Jan 7, 2021)

http://argontool.com/

I'm not seeing the image. Are the letters in a straight line or radial? Check out this website. Argon supplies off the shelf letter stamps and holders for the metal stamping industry.


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## Robzee (Jan 7, 2021)

Images here


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## PeterT (Jan 7, 2021)

I'm  just a hobbyist, not qualified on tool & die matters so just treat this as an idea. Maybe if the tool is confined to embossing on softer alloys like silver or copper, maybe you could get the designs laser etched so for example the black area etched 0.020" lower than the remaining white. If this was done in common O1 tool steel, its small enough that you could use ordinary torch to heat to red, quench in oil & temper in your oven to achieve typical tool steel RN hardness. What I don't know is if lasering can remove a specific thickness over an area like this, or if lasering has any heat effect on the part itself that ight adversely affect heat treating. But they could answer those questions. 

Are you pressing these into the coin blanks with a press or something?


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## Robzee (Jan 7, 2021)

PeterT said:


> I'm  just a hobbyist, not qualified on tool & die matters so just treat this as an idea. Maybe if the tool is confined to embossing on softer alloys like silver or copper, maybe you could get the designs laser etched so for example the black area etched 0.020" lower than the remaining white. If this was done in common O1 tool steel, its small enough that you could use ordinary torch to heat to red, quench in oil & temper in your oven to achieve typical tool steel RN hardness. What I don't know is if lasering can remove a specific thickness over an area like this, or if lasering has any heat effect on the part itself that ight adversely affect heat treating. But they could answer those questions.
> 
> Are you pressing these into the coin blanks with a press or something?


That is the plan Peter, press into blanks.  I hadn’t thought of making my own tools that’s for sure.  That’s much above my pay grade but you make it sound simple.  I’ll check into lazer and see if I can get to a solution.  Thanks.


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## PeterT (Jan 7, 2021)

Just as example I grabbed your image, brought into background, did a rough click trace (just the perimeter & the teepee), extruded area... just to show the kind of end result that maybe a laser etcher could do from a cad file. So if this was the chunk of tool steel you received, 'just' a matter of hardening it.


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## PeterT (Jan 7, 2021)

I just don't know how deep they can go, but this was the basic concept. (Google laser etching, laser engraving etc)


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## Robzee (Jan 7, 2021)

I think you put in the legwork I wish I could have today!  Thank you!  I think I may have to try this method out my friend.  Much appreciated.


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## PeterT (Jan 7, 2021)

No problem. What you might want to get a handle on, if you haven't already, is how much 'step' the raised part should be in order to impart the impression you are after. If there is a way to simulate it with something simple like with a range of feeler gages or something. But it may well vary on your specific design too because (I'm guessing here) you have X amount of downforce from your press, but it gets applied to whatever the the embossing area is. If embossing area is small area, die should penetrate deeper, if its large area may only go shallow & max out. Maybe err on the deeper etch depth as you could always shave some raised portion off, but not the other way around.

Just a weird coincidence I was looking at rolling mills like what jewelers use to curve shapes (and also apparently emboss patterns). Not that I want to buy one but just curious the principles of of how the rollers are set up & how the squeeze is applied. They look pretty beefy to me so forces are probably not small.


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## PeterT (Jan 7, 2021)

I'm trying to think back the last time I saw one of those machines like at carnivals. You put in a coin & it rolls a design on it. Or did they just flatten them into an ellipse? I don't even remember anymore. We used the train tracks when I was a kid haha


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## Janger (Jan 8, 2021)

Those machines are still pretty common at tourist traps in the states. My spouse likes collecting them.


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## Janger (Jan 8, 2021)

https://www.coinnews.net/2014/01/06/how-the-denver-mint-makes-dies-to-produce-coins/

Coin die manufacturing article at the US mint. Lots of good pictures and detailed description. Careful you'll end up wanting new equipment.


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## Janger (Jan 8, 2021)

How long till the only coins left are the ones for collectors? In Canada I think that will be soon.


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## PeterT (Jan 8, 2021)

That's a great link, John. I'm going to have to read & watch in bite size pieces. Its kind of like taking Lego molds for granted.
I keep hearing the metal in coins is low value. That might be true, but judging by the process, the labor must be a chunk of the intrinsic cost.


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## Janger (Jan 8, 2021)

Robzee how will you make coins? In the article they talk about having a 160 ton press to make the bigger coins. What steel type do you want to use for the dies? Can 4140 be used for coin dies with heat treat hardening? The article suggests die steels are: "either A9, 52-100 or L6 steel is used"


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## Dabbler (Jan 9, 2021)

If you are pressing hundreds to low thousands 4140 is just fine.  To press millions, they use A6 and D2 or even longer wearing steels.


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## laurencern (Mar 3, 2021)

go find a local engraving shop that has cnc engraver, they can take a steel bar and engrave the outside away to leave lettering proud, use a decent steel and if needed you can harden it


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## Robzee (Oct 15, 2021)

Janger said:


> Robzee how will you make coins? In the article they talk about having a 160 ton press to make the bigger coins. What steel type do you want to use for the dies? Can 4140 be used for coin dies with heat treat hardening? The article suggests die steels are: "either A9, 52-100 or L6 steel is used"





Man I lost access to this whole place for months!! !  Thank you for all the responses, could we discuss on the phone?  I am not, I repeat not, knowledgeable about tool steels and the rest of it.  I'm here looking for your expertise.  I just posted another thread about a rolling mill I need to get my hands on, or trying to find silver sheet in 20 guage.  I'm still planning to do these coins, but right now I need sheet bad!!


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## Robzee (Oct 15, 2021)

Making a ton of these these days.  A hydraulic rolling mill is now a necessity.


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## Robzee (Oct 15, 2021)

Dabbler said:


> If you are pressing hundreds to low thousands 4140 is just fine.  To press millions, they use A6 and D2 or even longer wearing steels.


Thank you for that.  Noted!   Hundreds to low thousands here, millions, now that's a lofty goal but one day


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## Robzee (Oct 15, 2021)

Dabbler said:


> If you are pressing hundreds to low thousands 4140 is just fine.  To press millions, they use A6 and D2 or even longer wearing steels.


Could you, or anyone else, advise me on what press and pressure would be needed to press say a 10 oz silver bar?  I'd pour a 10oz bar like the bottom left in the attached image here, and press the design into it with a set of made dies, that ill need made if anyone knows anyone.


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## Dabbler (Oct 15, 2021)

My experience with silver sheet is that you want to get the lowest nickle content possible.  The silver I used to use had high enough nickle to cause it to be very hard - the cutting with a jewelers' saw was very slow going. 

Even pure silver requires pretty high pressures to be ductile.  For any diameter of coin, the press requirement goes up with the square, naturally, but for hardness of material the press requirement goes up exponentially as well.

Now to answer your question.  If you are just stamping the letters, then the pressure required is the Volume of the indent, with a factor for the square area of that image, times a constant.  So if you have a logo like the one pictured, then it gets very high quickly.

Have you considered a striking die to be used just after is sets up, say at 800 F?  This does not require a press or even a fancy alloy, even cold rolled will do...


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## Janger (Oct 16, 2021)

I think you could investigate cnc engraving the silver. Like this in aluminum.


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## Janger (Oct 16, 2021)

Robzee said:


> Making a ton of these these days.  A hydraulic rolling mill is now a necessity.



Cool items! You asked about steels - Dabbler knows more. Rio grande online is where my spouse gets her silver sheet. Good prices and pristine sheet.  They also have Pepe tools rolling mills if you know them. They are nice but not hydraulic. 

Look for a book in homemade jewellery press 20 ton. I can’t remember the title but it’s a good project and is a useful tool might be good for you.


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