# 20 ton jewelry press



## Janger (Dec 21, 2019)

Todo


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## Janger (Dec 21, 2019)

I'm working on a 20 ton press for my spouse. She makes jewelry and needs a press to do shape forming. In this book there is a published plan to make one from a bottle jack, some ready rod, and some 1" plate. I traded another forum member for some 1" plate scrap. Then John N. and John C. helped me cut it up. John N. has the coolest little mechanical torch trolley. Makes a very smooth cut much better than by hand even with a guide. More to come...


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## Alexander (Dec 21, 2019)

Looks great


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## Janger (Dec 22, 2019)

Plate models.


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## PeterT (Dec 22, 2019)

Cool. Do you have a link or picture of what the end result looks like?


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## Janger (Dec 22, 2019)

I don’t think I should post the plan. Copyright and such.


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## Tom O (Dec 22, 2019)

Are you going to form it with rubber or male/female die?


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## Tom Kitta (Dec 23, 2019)

I made 50t press some time ago by looking at PA one and scaling it up a bit. I should have scaled it a LOT up. If you make 20t press just copy the idea from the 50t at PA. On the other hand I discovered that all I need is around 20t for all the pressing needs I have. Press is such a useful tool - never imagined it will be one. Once you have it you find use for it.


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## Janger (Dec 23, 2019)

Tom O said:


> Are you going to form it with rubber or male/female die?


There are rubber mats and something about cutting out shapes in plexi. ... not sure exactly.


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## Janger (Dec 28, 2019)

Drilling plate. That’s a 1” drill bit. Still mucking with feeds speeds and pecking amount. This was 0.15” per peck. The chips were too big. I’d have to pause the machine and pull the chips off. Trying again next time with 0.075 pecking depth.

This was fun.


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## PeterT (Dec 28, 2019)

Some big boy slabs you have there! 

I'm no big drill expert but unless the drill is having trouble re-starting with each peck, I think you can peck at whatever frequency works for you. Even a momentary pause is enough to stop the chip. I don't like screwing around pecking on the first part of the hole until the axis is established, but after that my experience has been pecking actually improves straightness, especially in gummy materials. Shorter chips & an opportunity for cutting fluid to migrate down is bonus points. 

Just curious if you have tried annulur cutters (aka rotabroach)? I've mostly drilled aluminum in that thickness & they performed quite well vs drills. Faster & seemed like less down feed pressure. Kind of makes sense, they are removing much less material & have tooth clearance. They have their happy rpm too but I kind of like using them.


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## PeterT (Dec 28, 2019)

Just happened to be on this website looking at goodies & noticed this press. Not sure if its similar to what you are building but they are cool. 
https://www.riogrande.com/product/bonny-doon-classic-20-ton-manual-press-and-ram/110501


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## historicalarms (Dec 29, 2019)

PeterT said:


> Just happened to be on this website looking at goodies & noticed this press. Not sure if its similar to what you are building but they are cool.
> https://www.riogrande.com/product/bonny-doon-classic-20-ton-manual-press-and-ram/110501



   Ohh wow  $999 for a $40 bottle jack & $25 dollars worth of iron  !!!


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## PeterT (Dec 29, 2019)

And that's USD, fob United States. I wanted Janger to feel good about his effort. Only takes a few projects like this & the shop machines have paid for themselves right? LOL.


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## Janger (Dec 29, 2019)

Oh yes we priced the Bonny doon press and was aghast! In fairness though they are well made and 100 pounds of material. If you had to hire somebody to make this though it would also be expensive. The one we are making is more crude.


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## historicalarms (Dec 30, 2019)

Tom Kitta said:


> I made 50t press some time ago by looking at PA one and scaling it up a bit. I should have scaled it a LOT up. If you make 20t press just copy the idea from the 50t at PA. On the other hand I discovered that all I need is around 20t for all the pressing needs I have. Press is such a useful tool - never imagined it will be one. Once you have it you find use for it.



    I have a 20 T hyd press purchased at KMS tools ( the "floor model", under $400 on sale at the time) that I also use a LOT, more than I thought I would. Metal bending /shaping mainly with a bit of broaching thrown in. the only complaint I have over it is that the return spring (internal, inside the ram) became very weak in a short time so retraction of the ram is painfully slow without the help of a pry bar. I have purchased new "outside springs, just haven't built a "mount" for them yet.

    A buddy of mine built a "homebuilt" 150 tonner for his industrial machine shop. He had to attach a 20 ft cord so he could stand a bit aways from "squirting" chuncks , ended up building a movable shield from 1/4 " steel plate along with a big mirror to see the work in progress... "so I could see the eruption when it happened" he said.


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## Janger (Dec 30, 2019)

Interesting I didn’t know there was a spring inside bottle jacks? Are they all like that? I thought the weight of the ram and thing you were lifting pushed the fluid back down. I was going to skip the external return springs as the jack will have a big heavy plate resting on top. I wondered why the springs were needed.


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## PeterT (Dec 30, 2019)

historicalarms said:


> He had to attach a 20 ft cord so he could stand a bit aways from "squirting" chuncks , ended up building a movable shield from 1/4 " steel plate along with a big mirror to see the work in progress... "so I could see the eruption when it happened" he said.



Do you mean parts that are being squeezed suddenly shoot out because of distortion or misalignment? Scary if so. I don't get the cord, what does that do?

I can see the value in a press. Do you bend with attachments like this?
https://www.kmstools.com/magnum-press-brake-attachment-172060


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## Tom Kitta (Dec 30, 2019)

You can get a very large presses used in need of renovation quite cheap - like a 100t for few hundred bucks - just touch above scrap price. They are build ... heavy... and take lots of space. Problem is ... why would you need so much in home shop setting unless you use it also as a punch. 

Air jacks have external springs. Without a spring somewhere why would the press ram go against gravity? Heck, even air jack (which moves upwards) would not easily move back down without help of springs. Regular jacks don't usually have springs and to fully retract them you have to stand on them. 

Large presses should have shields - or at least operator should hide somewhere behind a plexi glass. There is utube channel where they use large press to destroy stuff. It shatters - imagine all the energy released from all that pressure - with 100t it is a LOT of energy. That energy is transferred into motion of shattered pieces (and heat).


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## Janger (Dec 30, 2019)

I see most presses have the jack mounted above the work so there is a need for springs. That makes sense to me.




  What about this kind? What makes the ram retract? would this have an internal spring?  







The one I'm working on looks similar to this one and the jack is mounted below. 
https://wildprairiesilver.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/press-122.jpg 

So I guess the springs are still necessary? it will have something like 20 lbs pressing down on the ram. I'll have to test this.


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## Tom O (Dec 30, 2019)

Janger said:


> Drilling plate. That’s a 1” drill bit. Still mucking with feeds speeds and pecking amount. This was 0.15” per peck. The chips were too big. I’d have to pause the machine and pull the chips off. Trying again next time with 0.075 pecking depth.
> 
> This was fun.


Haas tips and tricks has a video that drills and retracts then spins in the opposite way to clear the nest before continuing drilling.


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## Tom O (Dec 31, 2019)

Here’s the video


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## Tom Kitta (Dec 31, 2019)

Well, I try it and see how it works on manual machine - but it is a bit more then 2 sec operation - it takes a bit more to stop the spindle, change speed, change direction, spun it up, watch chips fly away after 2 sec, turn off, stop it, reverse, set new speed. I think it may be just easier to brush the chips away with a brush.


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## historicalarms (Jan 1, 2020)

The one I am referencing has a hyd ram & porta-power type oil pump. the spring is inside the ram.


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## Janger (Jan 1, 2020)

Milling down I beam remnant. This is plate 3.


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## Janger (Jan 4, 2020)

First assembly. Rods need to be shorter.


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## Dabbler (Jan 4, 2020)

Won't the nuts get in the way?


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## CalgaryPT (Jan 4, 2020)

When I built my devoted 20T brake (non-adjustable) I couldn't source the right springs for the longest time cheaply. Then I found a trampoline company in Calgary (Manchester) that had a great assortment. They worked like a charm.

Presses are great tools. If you use an air over hydraulic jack like I do, remove the trigger lock that comes with many of them. Guys crush their arms off due to those stupid things. Big safety hazard.


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## CalgaryPT (Jan 4, 2020)

Janger said:


> First assembly. Rods need to be shorter.


John you have far too much unused floor space in that garage of yours. It's disgraceful


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## PeterT (Jan 4, 2020)

That's looking good.

OK dumbass question time. According to this, 1" threaded rod can hold 4,900 pounds tension. So 4 of them = 19,600 pounds. 20 tons on the jack is 40,000 pounds (so it exceeds rod rating)
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/loads-hanging-rods-d_1341.html

This link says 36,350 pounds for 1" so 145,400 pounds for 4 rods, so 72 tons capability
http://www.barnhillbolt.com/page/specs/ATR.pdf

Do the alloys vary that much or what am I missing? What grade are you using?


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## Brian Ross (Jan 4, 2020)

I'm not sure about the first reference. Regular 1018 steel has a tensile strength of about 60000 psi. So the second reference seems to be right on and it looks like it is plenty strong for the press. Grade 8 threaded rod has a tensile strength of about 150000 psi - much stronger than mild steel.


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## RobinHood (Jan 5, 2020)

Here is what the little app I’ve been using for years shows for the 1“-14 UNF, Grade 8 bolt:


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## historicalarms (Jan 5, 2020)

the content of this thread at the moment is sort of apropos, last week I bought a couple grade 8 bolts for a specific project in mind . I had a couple of lesser hardness bolts on the bench at the same time, one of these I wanted to cut a "measurement mark into with a file but by mistake I picked up one of the grade 8 bolts and hit it with the file and the file bit in quite readily . Not what I expected, to say the least, so I dug up an old grade 8 bolt from a Caterpillar D8 from mid 60's era...that file slid like glass over the "old bolt" of supposed same grade.


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## PeterT (Jan 5, 2020)

That looks like a useful app Rudy, can you share the link?

The max tensile value of the first link I referenced is very low by comparison, that's what made me wonder. Maybe 'threaded hangar rod' means something different? It looks like a somewhat encompassing engineering site but I notice no reference to specifying Grade/SAE number, hence the question. Sorry for the tangent, figured it would be useful discussion since we are buying this stuff to deal with relatively heavy forces & ideally don't want things to go sideways.


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## Dabbler (Jan 5, 2020)

*Threaded hanger rod* is non-graded rod that for purposes of discussion should be considered SAE grade 2 (although it is probably less).  When figuring out tensile on any threaded rod, use the numbers for a bolt of the same diameter.

Note that in almost every case, UNF rods are stronger than UNC threads, as it is the minimum cross section that fails, and seldom the threads.  UNF threads leave more cross section after threading.

For rule of thumb, I use 120K psi multiplied by the surface area for grade 8 and 80K for grade 5.  These de-rated values allow for the thread form, and give reasonable results.  For Grade 2, most manufacturers don't give good quality control in grade 2 fasteners, I use 30K instead of 60K.  Grade 2 might as well be ungraded.  

On a side note.  Most metric fasteners are Grade 7 or better.  (7 is sort of an orphan designation)  I use 100K times the surface area for all metric fasteners, regardless of declared grade. (unless it is chinesuim, then I use 30K again)

It is silly that we are all still using lbs-force instead of Newtons.  I trained in Newtons, but just feel more comfortable describing thing in the _now-defunct_ units lbs-force.


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## Chicken lights (Jan 5, 2020)

Dabbler said:


> It is silly that we are all still using lbs-force instead of Newtons.  I trained in Newtons, but just feel more comfortable describing thing in the _now-defunct_ units lbs-force.


Why do you say that? 
Inch pounds and foot pounds make more sense to me then a Newton metre. 
I’ve got a Newton metre torque wrench that’s just a paper weight, more or less.


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## Janger (Jan 5, 2020)

This is a good discussion. I appreciate the thoughts on safety. I bought the rods and nuts from a reputable supplier ($80 ish) and the rods are rated B7. That is apparently better than Grade 5 but not as good as Grade 8. The rods are stamped on the end B7 and are 1" NC. Definitely not the cheapie stuff from Princess with no rating or grade at all. I would assume material like that is not even grade 2.

I found a chart https://www.almabolt.com/pages/catalog/bolts/proofloadtensile.htm

Comparing relative strengths on the chart - grade five 1"-8 has a proof load of 51500 lbs. I think this means 4 rods * 51500 lbs = 206,000 lbs. The jack can provide 20 tons * 2000 lbs/ton = 40,000 lbs. I believe this means the rods would fail at 100 tons and that is 80 tons more than the jack can provide. I don't know where safety factors come in and I'm not an engineer so I'm just making some assumptions. This is a tested and published plan - my spouses teacher made one of these as well and has been using it for years. I hope this is adequate. I'm going to add a safety curtain too. One point in the plan they put two nuts on the load taking sides of the rod. I assume this is a locking type of arrangement not adding much to the strength.

The same chart says grade 2 is 20,000 lbs per 1" rod. Quite a bit less.

@historicalarms - Do those Grade 8 bolts you think are weak have the right markings on the head? Where did you buy them? What are the markings on the old bolts?


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## Janger (Jan 5, 2020)

RobinHood said:


> Here is what the little app I’ve been using for years shows for the 1“-14 UNF, Grade 8 bolt:
> 
> View attachment 7073



That does look handy. It seems to be called iEngineer on the apple iOS app store. It's even Free! EDIT-> Metric screw tables are $2.79


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## RobinHood (Jan 5, 2020)

Janger said:


> That does look handy. It seems to be called iEngineer on the apple iOS app store. It's even Free! EDIT-> Metric screw tables are $2.79



that is exactly what the app is called. I have not paid the $2.79, thus only have access to the SAE side...

John, here is what the app says for a 1”-8 UNC Grade 5 bolt






seems a bit of a variance for sure, no idea why (maybe different testing standards?)

regardless, I think you are safe in any case with 4 of them and a 20ton jack.


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## historicalarms (Jan 6, 2020)

Janger said:


> This is a good discussion. I appreciate the thoughts on safety. I bought the rods and nuts from a reputable supplier ($80 ish) and the rods are rated B7. That is apparently better than Grade 5 but not as good as Grade 8. The rods are stamped on the end B7 and are 1" NC. Definitely not the cheapie stuff from Princess with no rating or grade at all. I would assume material like that is not even grade 2.
> 
> I found a chart https://www.almabolt.com/pages/catalog/bolts/proofloadtensile.htm
> 
> ...



    Both the old cat bolt & the new bolt had the same 5 head ridges and both are fine tread. The new bolt came in a twofer package from a local hardware store , packaged with a "SAE fine tread Grade Eight label." I have grade 2 & 5 bolts in my bolt bin and the new bots seem to be a bit harder than the gr 5 but nowhere near as hard as the old gr 8 .


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## Brent H (Jan 6, 2020)

Hey guys,   I have that app and paid for the metric.   Works great - use it for getting the cut depth when making threads etc.


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## Janger (Jan 6, 2020)

Anybody have a or access to a bolt testing machine? Maybe we could test historic alarms bolts?


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## YYCHM (Jan 6, 2020)

Janger said:


> Anybody have a or access to a bolt testing machine? Maybe we could test historic alarms bolts?



Actually.... I believe he goes by "historical arms" 

The UofC Mech Eng Dep would break the bolts for you, if you asked nicely.

I'm betting that there are a lot of substandard bolts out there with fraudulent markings.


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## kevin.decelles (Jan 6, 2020)

historic alarms.  just change your handle now.  that's gold baby.  lol


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## Janger (Jan 6, 2020)

That’s me making stuff up! Historic alarms oh man sorry... I’ve been reading it that way since you joined.


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## YYCHM (Jan 6, 2020)

Janger said:


> That’s me making stuff up! Historic alarms oh man sorry... I’ve been reading it that way since you joined.



Don't feel bad.... That's how I read it to

eotrfish straightened me out about that.  I guess they had a good chat about Gatling guns at the last meet up.


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## Perry (Jan 6, 2020)

Me too.    Sorry.       lol


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## historicalarms (Jan 7, 2020)

LOL...I guess an appropriate  space or hyphen would sure have been appropriate there wouldn't it... but never thought of it at the time as some forums won't allow anything but lettering in titles or usernames...and no worries on the entirely plausible reading of the name...in my professional career I was a heavy construction supervisor so am quite used to being referred to in substantially less flattering terms than Historical Alarms.

   now back to the bolt thingy...I'm not concerned about the bolt strength as I would have bought a softer one if I could have, I just needed a fine tread bolt with perfect threads. I was just surprised that the file cut into a bolt that I thought it would just skate over.


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## johnnielsen (Jan 7, 2020)

Your press looks great.

We used to cut B7 studs for gas plants etc (60s and 70s) and they were considered the best threaded fasteners they could use. Interestingly, B7 threaded rod stayed with 8TPI on diameters over 1" up to 7" dia. We made equivalents from 4140 steel.


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## TheLocalDrunk (Jan 15, 2020)

No one commented on the pink fingernails?
Nothing wrong with them. Just not expected.


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## Tom O (Jan 15, 2020)

Blue at the last meeting.


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## YYCHM (Jan 15, 2020)

TheLocalDrunk said:


> No one commented on the pink fingernails?
> Nothing wrong with them. Just not expected.



What the heck are you talking about???


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## TheLocalDrunk (Jan 15, 2020)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> What the heck are you talking about???


Look closely at the first post pictures and check their hands.


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## TheLocalDrunk (Jan 15, 2020)

Tom O said:


> Blue at the last meeting.


My daughter sometimes does it to me. I wear it with pride.


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## Dabbler (Jan 15, 2020)

Those are mine.  and yes I wore blue at the last meeting.


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## Tom O (Jan 16, 2020)

Should be that colour now it’s cold enough!!!!!


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## Dabbler (Jan 17, 2020)

Surprisingly to me I didn't wear any colour at all this Christmas.  Anyhoo we're getting off topic for the thread. 

 Suffice it to say, it can be fun, and when the mood hits, I indulge.


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## DianaPowell (Dec 2, 2020)

I wonder if it's possible to make a nice jewelry on this press


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## DianaPowell (Dec 2, 2020)

I wonder if it's possible to make nice jewelry on this press? My mother loves different necklaces and earrings, and I thought that handmade jewelry would be a great Christmas present idea. My husband and I could do it together, and make something for his mother as well. Probably we could rent a piece of equipment or borrow it from someone. But what kind of machinery is suitable for this type of work? Do we need this 20-ton press or some other equipment? I was thinking of designing a pendant and buy a chain for it separately. I am considering making a butterfly heart-shaped pendant without any complicated traceries.


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## CalgaryPT (Dec 2, 2020)

DianaPowell said:


> I wonder if it's possible to make nice jewelry on this press? My mother loves different necklaces and earrings, and I thought that handmade jewelry would be a great Christmas present idea. My husband and I could do it together, and make something for his mother as well. Probably we could rent a piece of equipment or borrow it from someone. But what kind of machinery is suitable for this type of work? Do we need this 20-ton press or some other equipment? I was thinking of designing a pendant and buy a chain for it separately. I am considering making a butterfly heart-shaped pendant without any complicated traceries.


Welcome from Calgary @DianaPowell. Perhaps @Chris Cramer can answer this question for you; he does this kind of work I believe.


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## Janger (Dec 2, 2020)

@DianaPowell we don't get too many members signing up from Kansas and posting at 3AM. Welcome to the forum. You can make jewelry on a press like this but this isn't just a casual craft. There is a book referenced in my very first post on jewelry presses - I would start with that book. There are quite a few different approaches to making jewelry. A you tuber called Nancy Hamilton has a good channel on making jewelry too. Classes at your local technical college would go a long way to making a good start.


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## Chris Cramer (Dec 2, 2020)

20 tons is a good mass for use of jewelry. You could make great pendants with the use of a press by pressing shapes like hearts, butterflies, stars, etc. into a silver sheet before cutting it out. I don't have a press, so I usually use a dapping block to manualy shape the inside of an object after it is cut out. Another thing you can use a press for is to press a design etched into a piece of paper into your metal instead of hand engraving it.


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## Chris Cramer (Dec 30, 2020)

a good ring doesn't need a press, a ring mandrel can work just fine to shape a straight ring shank with some square wire, or half round wire. presses are mostly used for pendants, bracelets, or other larger pieces of jewelry. Even  in that case with enough practice, use of different sized dapping blocks can deliver just as good results as a press. It definitely takes more time and effort, but it can be done. All those prong settings, bezel settings, and chanel settings on those rings can be done with basic jewelry equipment, like soldering equipment, stone setting burrs, beading tools, and plenty of practice.


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## Janger (Dec 30, 2020)

That sean guy was a spammer


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