# Gravel Scoop for Icy Sidewalks



## CalgaryPT (Nov 29, 2020)

Just a small one day project. 

I use a Princess Auto Feed Scoop to distribute gravel on the sidewalks I maintain in the winter as a snow angel. I leave a bucket of gravel at a few houses along my route. I like the PA design, but it needs a couple of improvements for my purposes.

Firstly, it is just a tad too large for a typical 5 gallon bucket. In the winter the gravel mix freezes solid so you have to chip away at it with the scoop. The scoop is too large for this, and you can’t get a good angle of attack to break up the gravel inside the bucket. Instead I usually end up having to grab a shovel from my truck, or I scrape it with my gloves—which wears them out pretty fast.  A second improvement is needed because the PA model is intended for feeding animals and not chipping ice-bound gravel (or scooping it for that matter)...so the metal is a tad too flimsy.

This is the new version I made. It’s 18 gauge instead of 22 gauge, and slightly smaller so I can fit it in the 5 gallon bucket better to chip with. I also used bulkier ¼” rivets instead of the 5/32” ones on the PA model. The handle and cross brace are more robust as well. The nice thing about 18 gauge (which I use a lot of) is that it’s about as thin as you can go without needing to put a safety edge/hem on the metal, but super easy to weld without blowing through it. That was part of the plan because the PA one is a rolled lip that is just press fit on. It comes off a lot because of the weight of the gravel, so I wanted a welded lid on the new one.

In one of the pics you can see how little working space I have left on the welding table. Next to the Beverley sheer is a Craftex straight sheer. In order to use the Beverley I remove a couple of bolts from the Craftex and pivot that tool to the rear of the table. This gives me lots of room to use the Beverley for almost all of my projects except anything really big. In those cases I just remove the Craftex completely, but that’s a rare event.

Someday I need to make a die for the press in the shape of a finger so I can put indents into round handles (like on bicycle handle grips), but that will be for a future project. It’s one of those “nice to haves” that seems a great idea, but a lot of work for marginal gain.

I haven’t decided if I will paint it or not. We’ll see if I make a couple of more or not first.


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## Janger (Nov 29, 2020)

Good project Pete. I see you have a JET air riveter. How do you like it? How do those compare to the hand powered kind? 

What are you going to do about rust? I note the PA scoop is rusting I imagine the galvanizing is scraped off digging in the pail. Painting is probably pointless. The only thing I can think of is to use stainless sheet metal to begin with.


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## Janger (Nov 29, 2020)

I printed a plastic scoop for digging swarf but it wouldn't be tough enough to bust through frozen gravel & salt. 
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4422253 
I'm sure I posted about it somewhere.


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## CalgaryPT (Nov 29, 2020)

Janger said:


> Good project Pete. I see you have a JET air riveter. How do you like it? How do those compare to the hand powered kind?
> 
> What are you going to do about rust? I note the PA scoop is rusting I imagine the galvanizing is scraped off digging in the pail. Painting is probably pointless. The only thing I can think of is to use stainless sheet metal to begin with.


I like the JET. I've done hundreds of rivets with it and I prefer it now to a hand riveter even if I only need to do one or two. It's just easier to position than a hand riveter I find. I really should order a spare set of jaws just in case.

You're right about finishing it. Any paint won't last long and stainless would have been the best choice. But I didn't have any stainless laying around. I've read that LocTite Cold Galvanizing Spray (which I do have laying around) bonds differently than paint and is a good choice for stuff like this. But I don't know...that sounds like marketing hype to me a bit.


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## CalgaryPT (Nov 29, 2020)

Janger said:


> I printed a plastic scoop for digging swarf but it wouldn't be tough enough to bust through frozen gravel & salt.
> https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4422253
> I'm sure I posted about it somewhere.


That's pretty nice. I like the handle design.


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## YYCHM (Nov 29, 2020)

Powder coat it


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## CalgaryPT (Nov 29, 2020)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> Powder coat it


But it would look too nice to use then....


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## PeterT (Nov 29, 2020)

I've always been fond of this metal styling. Snow Slayer! LOL


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## CalgaryPT (Nov 29, 2020)

I'm seeing a problem...

I've entered my stretchy pants days, so...there's that.


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## PeterT (Nov 29, 2020)

And here I was talking the Scooper. But now that we've gone there.... LOL


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## YYCHM (Nov 29, 2020)

CalgaryPT said:


> But it would look too nice to use then....



Powder coat it and then beat the cr.p out if it with a ball peen hammer.  Done, ugly enough to use but pervious to the elements


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## YYCHM (Nov 29, 2020)

I'm serious here.  Powder coating is the solution.


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## CalgaryPT (Nov 29, 2020)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> I'm serious here.  Powder coating is the solution.


It can be pretty tough, you're dead right. There's even an immersive process now to rustproof that you can powder coat over, but not every shop has it. For some stuff you can't beat it.

In London there are (or used to be) millions of stretchers left over from WWII. They were purposely made from metal so they could be cleaned easily in case the Germans deployed poisonous gas during the Blitz. After the war they repurposed them into fences and railings but over the decades they weathered and chipped. I have seen pics of ones they restored. They were powder coated to preserve them because of their history. But for some reason they lost their charm after that.

I'm kind odd when it comes to a lot of metal projects. I like patinas, rust, and things that get banged up and look weathered. There's just something about imperfection I find soothing.


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## francist (Nov 30, 2020)

Nice fence.

I have mixed feelings about powder coating. At first I thought it was the greatest thing but after discussions with a custom metalworker down here he’s turned me otherwise. I contracted him to build two extensive and very heavy decorative iron gates with elaborate forged and riveted components. When I wanted him to do a powder coat he said no, better  use a good quality prep and paint system on multi-piece assemblies like we were doing. His experience was that careful prep and paint would get into all the nooks and crannies where water (and rust) like to hide, whereas a powder coat could have a tendency to bridge those crevices and create pockets under the coating. And going in after to remediate a powder coat was harder to do than with a good paint system.

The gates have been up in the weather for eight years now, no signs of any problems, so I think about that all the time when considering finishes.

-frank


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## CalgaryPT (Nov 30, 2020)

I agree with that completely. Right now I have a project at powder coat that has some nooks and crannies that I expect will be problematic down the road. I knew this going into it and had originally thought I would just prep and paint it myself. But down the road is 5-10 yrs., and I can live with this because it is on a truck, I was trying to match OEM, and I probably won't have it or care 10 yrs. later anyways. You have to pick your battles.

Surprisingly the best weatherproof coating I've ever seen was simple Tremclad paint. If you prep it well, and use the Red Oxide primer, you get 20 years easy. A bonus to it is that you can spot patch yourself w/o sandblasting the whole item.


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## CalgaryPT (Nov 30, 2020)

Janger said:


> Pete I could powder coat it to try if you want.


That's a really nice offer John. I appreciate that. I think I'm going to do the natural thing and let it look used and eventually rust though. 

But just out of curiosity, how big is your oven?


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## francist (Nov 30, 2020)

CalgaryPT said:


> best weatherproof coating I've ever seen was simple Tremclad paint


Coincidentally that’s exactly what we used


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## Janger (Nov 30, 2020)

CalgaryPT said:


> That's a really nice offer John. I appreciate that. I think I'm going to do the natural thing and let it look used and eventually rust though.
> 
> But just out of curiosity, how big is your oven?



it's a big toaster oven. more than 12" wide, about 8 deep and 8" high or so.


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## Janger (Nov 30, 2020)

francist said:


> Coincidentally that’s exactly what we used



Sometimes we over worry stuff don't we. Just paint it. Tremclad. Best answer amazing.


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## Janger (Nov 30, 2020)

francist said:


> Nice fence.
> 
> I have mixed feelings about powder coating. At first I thought it was the greatest thing but after discussions with a custom metalworker down here he’s turned me otherwise. I contracted him to build two extensive and very heavy decorative iron gates with elaborate forged and riveted components. When I wanted him to do a powder coat he said no, better  use a good quality prep and paint system on multi-piece assemblies like we were doing. His experience was that careful prep and paint would get into all the nooks and crannies where water (and rust) like to hide, whereas a powder coat could have a tendency to bridge those crevices and create pockets under the coating. And going in after to remediate a powder coat was harder to do than with a good paint system.
> 
> ...



Let's see these gates Frank? They sound interesting.


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## CalgaryPT (Nov 30, 2020)

Janger said:


> Let's see these gates Frank? They sound interesting.


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## francist (Nov 30, 2020)

Yeah, there’s the rub. They’re not mine, I just facilitate in various degrees the implementation. The end product isn’t secret by any stretch but I am hesitant (perhaps overly so) to present the work outside of the official channels, as it were. Some things would be pretty recognizable and I don’t want to make it seem like I’m presenting the projects or opening them for discussion outside of the proper purview.

Sorry, I don’t mean to clandestine about it, it’s just I don’t want to get anyone in hot water. Including me


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## 6.5 Fan (Dec 1, 2020)

Nice build. I wonder if mixing some salt in with your gravel would help with it freezing solid.


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## CalgaryPT (Dec 1, 2020)

6.5 Fan said:


> Nice build. I wonder if mixing some salt in with your gravel would help with it freezing solid.


You're probably right. I started doing all this snow removal stuff years ago because my wife slipped and injured herself walking our dog along this route. But the salt causes issues with our dog's feet. It did with our first dog as well. Even the "enviro-friendly / pet friendly" brands cause a rash on his feet so bad he limps for days. We have to wash his feet every time we come back from a walk as is, so I don't want to add to the problem. Plus, the salt deteriorates the concrete. For those reasons I don't use it.

I'm not wackadoodle about it. Unlike some people I don't run around telling people not to use it—but I just prefer not to. Late in the winter before the firehalls put away their salt and gravel bins and you can get it for free I usually load up. Then I wash out the salt from the mix and save the sand and gravel for snow blower season. Free is good. I like free.


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