# Hello from Saskatoon!



## Lanis3333 (Jul 18, 2022)

Hi Everyone !

I am so very happy I have found this forum.  I've been doing some lurking and felt its time for a little introduction.

Back when I was a young impressionable 16 year old, I met a gunsmith that made rifles for full bore target shooting.  I would hang out at his shop for hours watching him work on his LeBlonde lathe turning down rifle barrels and cutting chambers.  This was my first introduction to precision and I learned a lot in those few years.  Fast forward a few more years and I have a degree in Engineering, and was working at an Ag-Equipment manufacturing facility with every tool imaginable.  My career then took a left turn and I ended up in the broadcasting industry, which I still do (and absolutely love) today.  However, my desire to own my own tooling never left.

Back when Covid was a new thing, I was working in the UK and had to come home in fear of being stuck in London.  Work dried up completely and found myself with a lot of time on my hands.  Time to build my dream garage!!!!  My father and I spend 2 months building a perfect 26'x28' (the biggest I could fit on my property) garage with 2x6 walls, R-60 insulation in the 10' ceiling and 100 amp service.  Now, time to start filling it with tools!!!! 

A few years back, I bought a RF-30 drill mill but it really sucked as the only place I could put it was a really hot mezzanine at a friends shop.  It was really uncomfortable to work there, so It didn't get much use (also no DRO, crap vice, and limited tooling, no power feed).  I also had a crap Princess Auto 7x14" lathe that was pretty much useless except for cutting aluminum or brass.

Now that the 2 motorcycle projects are out of my garage, and the walls are finished, it's time to spend some money!!!  I had some $$$$ earmarked for a new, big boy lathe.  After a lot of sober and non-sober contemplation over what to buy, I finally ordered a Grizzly 0824 (14"x40").  I found this forum looking for advice on how to level said lathe with it arrives.

BAD NEWS:Grizzly 0824 was enroute to Sweetgrass, MT today to my shipping drop point.  Very exciting until I see the photos that the shipping agent sent of the damaged lathe.  It looks like it tipped over and smashed its way out of the crate.  The shipment was refused, and the damaged lathe is on its way back to Grizzly.  

In the mean time, I am going to bring the RF-30 to the garage.  I have some exciting projects for it that I'd like to share with the forum.  First project is installing my Touch DRO (Tablet based DRO from Yuriy's Toys), and next is installing a Precision Matthews power feed.

I am probably going to ask a lot of stupid questions on this forum.  I apologize in advance for that!  As one of my profs said "There are no stupid questions, just stupid people !"  I don't have a single day of formal education in machining.  My teachers have been You-tubers This Old Tony, Quinn, and James from Clough42 (and a bit from Abomb...)

First stupid question:Where do you buy tool steel that doesn't cost an arm and a leg in Canada ???  I have some things I'd like to build but the material costs are out of control !!!!  Maybe tool steel just costs that much ??!?!!

Anyone from the Greater Metropolitan Saskatoon area willing to come help level a new lathe when it arrives?  Much beer and steak will be supplied in exchange for using your machinist level and your knowledge.  Any advice on what leveling feet to buy?  Are the KBC tools rubber vibration isolation feet worth the $$$ ?

I am looking forward to the knowledge I can gain from you grizzled veterans on this forum. I have a list of projects 10' long, but my technical ability has to catch up to my imagination.

Lanny


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## David_R8 (Jul 18, 2022)

Welcome to the forum, there's a few of us with RF style mills, myself included. Happy to share knowledge!


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## YYCHM (Jul 18, 2022)

Welcome from Calgary.  I'm another RF30 user.


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## whydontu (Jul 18, 2022)

Welcome from Vancouver! And I’m sure that if you’ve been lurking here you’ll know just how much we‘ll all assist you in spending your money on machinery & tools…


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## jcdammeyer (Jul 18, 2022)

Welcome from Victoria.  No such thing as a stupid question.


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## Lanis3333 (Jul 18, 2022)

whydontu said:


> Welcome from Vancouver! And I’m sure that if you’ve been lurking here you’ll know just how much we‘ll all assist you in spending your money on machinery & tools…


Thanks for all who help me spend some $$$  !!!!!  I just ordered a D1-5 5C collet chuck for a lathe I don't have yet....  Also, I think I REALLY NEED a ER40 D1-5 collet chuck.  I already have all the ER40 collets in Mertic and inch.  Do I need both???  I think I do...


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## David_R8 (Jul 18, 2022)

Lanis3333 said:


> First stupid question:Where do you buy tool steel that doesn't cost an arm and a leg in Canada ???  I have some things I'd like to build but the material costs are out of control !!!!  Maybe tool steel just costs that much ??!?!!


Tool steel can be a bit spendy. Curious what your making...


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## YotaBota (Jul 18, 2022)

Another Vancouver Island welcome.
Has Grizzly shipped a new machine for you? Grizzly website shows the 0824 as being back ordered, maybe they'll upgrade your order.


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## Dusty (Jul 19, 2022)

Welcome aboard from Saskatchewan, enjoy your time spent on the forum.


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## Doggggboy (Jul 19, 2022)

Lanis3333 said:


> Hi Everyone !
> 
> I am so very happy I have found this forum.  I've been doing some lurking and felt its time for a little introduction.
> 
> ...


Welcome  from Saskatchewan


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## Lanis3333 (Jul 19, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> Tool steel can be a bit spendy. Curious what your making...


Like many Machinist apprentices, making a few basic tools is a really good education on what to do and what not to do.  I'd like to start with a surface gauge with a bumper.  I believe This Old Tony made a really useful one.  Next up would be a proper sine bar.  I am not so good with angles yet !!!!  I also need a really fine knurler, this would be a chance to try to heat treat something (never done that before!!!)


YotaBota said:


> Another Vancouver Island welcome.
> Has Grizzly shipped a new machine for you? Grizzly website shows the 0824 as being back ordered, maybe they'll upgrade your order.


Funny you mention that.  When I placed the order about a month ago, expected delivery was October 28, 2022.  No biggie, all good things come to those who wait.  Then, a few days later, I get an email saying my order was ready to ship.  I called customer service shocked that there was one in stock, he confirmed that there was one in their Seattle warehouse, and it would be on its way.  I wondered if I was getting a lathe that was damaged.  With my very limited experience with proper lathes, I sure it would be months of always turning tapers before I would notice that the bed is not true.  In this case, I am glad the damage is obvious, and can make a clear case for refusing delivery.  I looked yesterday and noticed that the new stock date is Aug 16, not Oct 28.  The boat from asia must have found second gear !


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## Susquatch (Jul 19, 2022)

Lanis3333 said:


> Thanks for all who help me spend some $$$  !!!!!  I just ordered a D1-5 5C collet chuck for a lathe I don't have yet....  Also, I think I REALLY NEED a ER40 D1-5 collet chuck.  I already have all the ER40 collets in Mertic and inch.  Do I need both???  I think I do...



First of all, welcome here from a Saskatchewan born farm boy. Unfortunately, I am now virtually family caged in Ontario farming south of Chatham. Love to go home to the Prairies, but love my wife, kids, grandkids, and one great grandkid even more. 

I have virtually the same lathe. My 5C chuck practically lives on my lathe - prolly a factor of 10x more than any one of my 5 other chucks. You won't regret that. 

I don't think you will find an ER40 collet chuck very useful on the lathe. It won't do hardly anything a 5C won't do. 

On the other hand, an ER40 or preferably a 33 is perfect for your mill. 

The simplest way to express this is to point out that lathe chucks usually spin parts with tools held in a tool holder. Mills are the other way around. The 5C is optimized to hold parts, and the ERs are optimized to hold tools. Ya, the reverse is quite frequently done, but that kinda sets the stage for what you really need and why. 

I'd stick with the 5C for your lathe for now and save your coin for the things you find you need later on. If you buy stuff like an ER40 chuck and collets now before you know you need it, it will prolly gather a lot of dust and take up a lot of useful space doing nothing. 

My own sense is that er32 is more popular for the mill and especially so for your RF30 and smaller.


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## Lanis3333 (Jul 19, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> First of all, welcome here from a Saskatchewan born farm boy. Unfortunately, I am now virtually family caged in Ontario farming south of Chatham. Love to go home to the Prairies, but love my wife, kids, grandkids, and one great grandkid even more.
> 
> I have virtually the same lathe. My 5C chuck practically lives on my lathe - prolly a factor of 10x more than any one of my 5 other chucks. You won't regret that.
> 
> ...


Sage advice.  I'll move that money over to get a bigger surface plate! 

Speaking of collets, is the 100 piece set (in increments of 1/64th) necessary for the work you do?  Are the hex and square 5C useful?


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## Susquatch (Jul 19, 2022)

Lanis3333 said:


> Like many Machinist apprentices, making a few basic tools is a really good education on what to do and what not to do.



Many of us here spend a huge chunk of our time making tools for our tools...... It's not just for beginners. You are gunna end up doing a lot of that no matter where your machining future leads you. 

I understand your interest in tool steel. But my advice is to never let perfection get in the way of the good. Most tools don't really need tool steel. You can make amazing things with mystery steel. As you have already realized, tool steel is expensive. I don't buy tool steel unless it is absolutely totally necessary. 

Those YouTube characters you mentioned don't have normal budgets. You don't really need to use what they use. 

FWIW, Sine Bars can be found on Kijiji and marketplace a lot easier than making them. Making them isn't that hard......... until it comes time to make the gauge blocks.........


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## Susquatch (Jul 19, 2022)

Lanis3333 said:


> Sage advice.  I'll move that money over to get a bigger surface plate!
> 
> Speaking of collets, is the 100 piece set (in increments of 1/64th) necessary for the work you do?  Are the hex and square 5C useful?




I have a select few 64ths, but I think 32nds is adequate. I often use a home made pop can shim to deal with loose fits. It's never failed me. Again, 100 collets takes up a huge amount of valuable space. 30 collets is manageable. 

Yes, a *FEW* hex collets is nice to have - especially 1/4. Square collets are also awesome. Just buy them individually as you find you need them.


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## Susquatch (Jul 19, 2022)

Lanis3333 said:


> Are the hex and square 5C useful?



Sounds like you have money to burn......

If I had to start over buying stuff like that, I'd get the biggest rotary table my mill could handle. I'm guessing 8" for an RF30. (Lots of RF30 users on here could give you better advice on size - gotta, watch out you don't lose too much headroom) I'd also get a 5C Spin Indexer with a tailstock and maybe two hex and two square 5C collet blocks.

For your lathe, I'd focus on the tool post. I don't know what your lathe comes with these days. It may or may not be a good one. If it is a good one, you will need LOTS of tool holders. If it isn't a good one, get a good one! 

You should also read some of the posts on here about buying tools. Don't get trapped into buying one of those fancy sets. Since you are starting, I cannot over emphasize the need to learn how to grind and use HSS tools. A good grinder is a big plus. Not necessarily a tool grinder - just a good grinder.

BTW, a great first project in my mind is a height standard for your lathe. WAY BETTER than using rulers, cutting a tiny tip, or using a center in the tailstock. You don't need tool steel for that little project...... LOL


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## PaulL (Jul 19, 2022)

Welcome from Victoria!
Sorry to hear about the shipping grief - that's a nice lathe!  
I've found huge variance in the "retail" price of steels.  Convenience is very expensive.  So if I go to Metal Supermarkets I frequently see 3x the price than I see at Hardcore Metals few blocks away.  But HC seem happy to handle my small volume, let me pick their shorts pile, and will cut/punch/weld at a fair price.  You want to find that similar place near you!


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## David_R8 (Jul 19, 2022)

PaulL said:


> Welcome from Victoria!
> Sorry to hear about the shipping grief - that's a nice lathe!
> I've found huge variance in the "retail" price of steels.  Convenience is very expensive.  So if I go to Metal Supermarkets I frequently see 3x the price than I see at Hardcore Metals few blocks away.  But HC seem happy to handle my small volume, let me pick their shorts pile, and will cut/punch/weld at a fair price.  You want to find that similar place near you!


Thanks for the positive words about Hardcore. I've not been but have been meaning to go. It's the place that looks like an auto recycle yard right?


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## Lanis3333 (Jul 19, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Sounds like you have money to burn......
> 
> If I had to start over buying stuff like that, I'd get the biggest rotary table my mill could handle. I'm guessing 8" for an RF30. (Lots of RF30 users on here could give you better advice on size - gotta, watch out you don't lose too much headroom) I'd also get a 5C Spin Indexer with a tailstock and maybe two hex and two square 5C collet blocks.
> 
> ...


Hahahaa  !!!  Money to burn !!!  I wish   I am still taking applications for the position of Sugar Momma if you know any extremely rich ladies !!!!  Maybe then I can actually support this addiction... errr hobby I mean !!!


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## PaulL (Jul 19, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> Thanks for the positive words about Hardcore. I've not been but have been meaning to go. It's the place that looks like an auto recycle yard right?


It's next door to a scrapyard, and looks like part of the same business, but isn't.  Always a bunch of rough trucks in the driveway getting various welding work done.  Wear boots, bring gloves, know you'll get messy.  
Last week I went looking for 3x7' of 3" schedule 40 steel pipe (mouting poles for my new solar installation).  MSM wanted $780 for it.  HC set me up, including punching holes in some 1/4" flange plates, *and welding them on* for just over $500. Oh, with same day service.  I'm really happy to give them my business.


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## David_R8 (Jul 19, 2022)

PaulL said:


> It's next door to a scrapyard, and looks like part of the same business, but isn't.  Always a bunch of rough trucks in the driveway getting various welding work done.  Wear boots, bring gloves, know you'll get messy.
> Last week I went looking for 3x7' of 3" schedule 40 steel pipe (mouting poles for my new solar installation).  MSM wanted $780 for it.  HC set me up, including punching holes in some 1/4" flange plates, *and welding them on* for just over $500. Oh, with same day service.  I'm really happy to give them my business.


That's a decent price!
I think I'll be switching especially since MSM is not open on Saturdays any longer.


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## YYCHM (Jul 19, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> especially since MSM is not open on Saturdays any longer.



Since when?  The Calgary store website still states 9am-2pm Saturdays.


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## Susquatch (Jul 19, 2022)

Hey @Lanis3333 , I just looked at your lathe on the Grizzly Website. *VERY NICE!!! *

I had wanted to see what toolpost it comes with. But the photos don't show it. Looks like a BXA or CXA, but can't tell if it's wedge or piston. I have a pistom style and am looking to get a wedge, but not a cheap one. I'll prolly wait for a brand name (like Aloris) sale and splurge. 

I may have to download the manual to get the details. 

2" spindle bore eh...... Drooling with envy. Mine is *ONLY* 1.5...... LOL! 

The only downside of your lathe in my opinion is the 70rpm minimum. That's my minimum too. I wish it was 40..... But even 50 would be great. My plan is to swap my 220V 2hp motor out for a 3HP and VFD. I have the VFD already but the right motor is evading me. 

I see your unit also comes with a 2-axis DRO. *NICE*! That's also in my future plans - still have not decided about the compound though. 

Yup, love your lathe.


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## David_R8 (Jul 19, 2022)

YYCHM said:


> Since when?


They are suffering from a staff shortage so don't have the people to open on Saturdays. No idea when it started.
Edit: this is the store here. no idea if it's more widespread.


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## YotaBota (Jul 19, 2022)

With both metric and inch collets you probably won't need any other round ones. I suggest waiting until you need a specific size collet, otherwise you could end up as a tool "collector" rather than a tool "user".
My collet chuck spends a lot of time on the lathe, collets are great with standard size material and no need for soft jaws.


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## PaulL (Jul 19, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> They are suffering from a staff shortage so don't have the people to open on Saturdays. No idea when it started.
> Edit: this is the store here. no idea if it's more widespread.


Yeah, I found out the hard way a few weeks ago.  Drove out and came home empty-handed.


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## Lanis3333 (Jul 19, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Hey @Lanis3333 , I just looked at your lathe on the Grizzly Website. *VERY NICE!!! *
> 
> I had wanted to see what toolpost it comes with. But the photos don't show it. Looks like a BXA or CXA, but can't tell if it's wedge or piston. I have a pistom style and am looking to get a wedge, but not a cheap one. I'll prolly wait for a brand name (like Aloris) sale and splurge.
> 
> ...


I think its a BXA....  The specs say is a 200 series, but that's Grizzly speak.  I was planning on 5/8" tooling for it.

The 2.01" spindle bore is what sold me.  I happen to have 8 old hydraulic cylinders that have 2" rams in them.  A plethora of usable material that'll actually fit through the spindle bore.

The VFD upgrade is definitely on the to do list.  Which VFD did you buy?  I see loads of cheap ones on amazon and were wondering if they actually do what they say they do.  I'd really like an electronic lead screw as well, but we'll see if that's actually necessary.

Take a look at TouchDRO.  I bought a used Amazon Fire tablet to run it for $35.  I don't have it installed on my RF-30 yet, that's a side project I am really looking forward to.  I've 3d printed a tablet case for it and will mount it on the side of the mill.  Then it's bluetooth to the little box that the glass scales connect to.

www.touchdro.com/store/diy-dro-glass-scale-adapter-v2.html

The app is a free download from the android store.  I also have a tach sensor that I'll install so I can see RPM on the display.  I've asked Yuriy to add a start/stop button and For/Rev in the app with headers on the board to also control the VFD from the App.  I'll post my progress on this project once I start.


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## 6.5 Fan (Jul 19, 2022)

Welcome from SK. I'm 1.5 hrs south of "toon town.


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## mickeyf (Jul 19, 2022)

PaulL said:


> Last week I went looking for 3x7' of 3" schedule 40 steel pipe


Not to make you feel bad for missing things, but I have a large collection of used pipe in various sizes just because I'm a pack rat, and things come to me. I probably should not take it all with me when I move, but should pass on what I have to good causes. Don't know if I had exactly what you were after, but...


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## Hruul (Jul 19, 2022)

Welcome from Regina.


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## PaulL (Jul 19, 2022)

mickeyf said:


> Not to make you feel bad for missing things, but I have a large collection of used pipe in various sizes just because I'm a pack rat, and things come to me. I probably should not take it all with me when I move, but should pass on what I have to good causes. Don't know if I had exactly what you were after, but...


Let us know when a good time to come by for a scrouge/ends sale would be!


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## mickeyf (Jul 19, 2022)

I have rarely bought new steel, but made things out of scraps, junkyard stuff, etc. Even rusty shafting that's not much oversize (1/8") to what you need generally cleans up nicely - the rust is not very deep. For people here on the Island, DEMEXX in Coombs is worth a look. What they have comes and goes, but in the past I have found lengths of 6" diameter shafting from decommissioned sawmills, sprockets, structural steel, at a fraction of what you'd pay at a place like Metal Supermarket.


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## mickeyf (Jul 19, 2022)

PaulL said:


> Let us know when a good time to come by for a scrouge/ends sale would be!


I just checked and what I have is 2" and smaller, all salvaged pipe from reno's I've done, much of it galvanized. Some has cast iron fittings still on the ends. I've found this cast iron also to be useful for small things sometimes. If anyone was planning to weld it they'd want to grind off the galvanizing first - metal fume fever is no fun, got that as an apprentice machinist boring a run of galvanized fittings on a turret lathe.

If any of this sounds useful to anyone, I'm home more often that not. Gorge-Tillicum area.


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## Susquatch (Jul 19, 2022)

@Lanis3333 & @PaulL 

I've written here many times before that farm supply places, farm equipment junk yards, and farm auctions are GREAT PLACES to get scrap metal for much less than scrap prices. 

Old Bolts are also a great source of good quality steel in short lengths. Many an old bolt has taken on a new life as something else after reconstructive surgery on my lathe.


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## whydontu (Jul 19, 2022)

Lanis3333 said:


> Sage advice.  I'll move that money over to get a bigger surface plate!
> 
> Speaking of collets, is the 100 piece set (in increments of 1/64th) necessary for the work you do?  Are the hex and square 5C useful?


Hex collets - 1/4”, 3/8”, 7/16”, 1/2”, 9/16”. The last three are crazy useful for modifying hex bolts and nuts. For square, 1/4”, 3/8”, and 1/2” is all I’ve ever used. Anything bigger it’s better just to use a four-jaw chuck.


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## Tecnico (Jul 19, 2022)

Welcome from the east coast, somewhere near Halifax!  

I think you've already found how helpful members of this group are for sharing info and advice and for spending your hard earned cash!  I've found the same, good group and no attitudes, enthusiastic spenders.



Lanis3333 said:


> Take a look at TouchDRO. I bought a used Amazon Fire tablet to run it for $35. I don't have it installed on my RF-30 yet, that's a side project I am really looking forward to. I've 3d printed a tablet case for it and will mount it on the side of the mill. Then it's bluetooth to the little box that the glass scales connect to.



As you get into your DRO project I would like to ask if you would share some of your experience as you get it up and running.  It's an option I'm considering for my First mill which I acquired a few months ago.  I've written elsewhere in the forums about some of my PRO/CON thoughts and I'm interested in some first hand comments.  I have seen but not digested the forum Yuriy participates in over at Hobby Machinist.

D


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## 6.5 Fan (Jul 20, 2022)

Not sure what metal they still carry but in Saskatoon if i need small amounts i go to Steelmet Supply, they used to have a cutoff bin you could rumage thru. I don't buy much as i have a good assortment on the farm that usually works for my purpose.


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## Lanis3333 (Jul 20, 2022)

@Tecnico , I am planning a post in "My Current Projects" about the Touch DRO build.  I'll probably get the Mill to my garage early next week.  It'll be a mash up of 3d printed parts (I can finally print ABS) and milled aluminum for attachment of the glass scales.  Stay Tuned !

@6.5 Fan , I remember in Regina, just off Broad street was a place called CMS Metals.  I've bought cut offs from them in the past, but it was over 10 years ago now!  I have resorted to Steelmet, but their $16 cutting fee was a little much.  I remember them having some 2"x2" internal, flash removed for a hitch I was building for my brothers Volvo.


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