# Bridgeport Alberta pricing?



## Overkill19 (Jan 8, 2020)

Saw this on kijiji 
Is this what one can expect to pay for a similar Bridgeport in Alberta?

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-other-busin...p_ios&utm_medium=social&utm_source=ios_social



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## Janger (Jan 8, 2020)

It's nice and has a lot of included accessories. Price seems high to me.


https://www.kijiji.ca/v-tool-other/edmonton/summit-mill-and-microcut-lathe/1476886382?undefined

$4500 summit mill. Add a DRO from china $300, a vise $800, collets & tooling $500. ... ?

Get the lathe too!


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## John Conroy (Jan 8, 2020)

You don't often see a Bridgeport for sale in AB but they do bring premium prices.  If I was going to spend 12K I would buy a new Taiwanese machine, not an old Bridgeport I think.


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## Brent H (Jan 8, 2020)

That price seems very high.  I bought my Bridgeport with a few bits of tooling and DRO for 2800 - added a vise for another $300, rotary table for $375, more tooling and cutters ...$1000...some machine repairs $300....

Not even close to 12K

My machine is from the early 80's.......

I am not in Alberta but I cannot see an 8K mark up .....Yikes!


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## Everett (Jan 8, 2020)

I'm with John Conroy on this one.  6, maybe 7, depending on the tooling included, but 12 is not reasonable.


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## Dabbler (Jan 8, 2020)

Both of those mills are in the 4k+ range.  the expensive one is speculatively priced.  A used BP, in pristine condition, should go for 5-6K max.  You can buy a really good one in Vancouver and have it shipped for about 800$ (I did)  (mine cost 4500$ shipping included to my garage, tailgate delivery).


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## Tom Kitta (Jan 8, 2020)

I sold a Kent (Taiwan) mill of 1995 vintage in AB with one working X axis power feed and power draw bar as well as larger table, R8 and 3hp motor for $4000 CAD just over 2 months ago. Buyer paid shipping to Vancouver. 

Mill at the very top has about 1300 - 1500 CAD more in accessories (depending on what they mean by multiple cutters - if what  is on the pic then value is minimal, say 30 cad). However, it is older and may not be in great condition. (400 vise, 300 DRO, 200 extra power feed, 100 extra collets and chuck, $300 VFD, $300 for all extras minus luck of power draw bar -300)

If in excellent shape a fair price would be around $5500 - $6000 in Alberta based on real sale values. This is very subjective as we don't know for example the variable frequency drive make.

As for the cost of a vise one has to remember its not a NEW Kurt but a used old Kurt that is not model 688 but something much older - thus $400 seems reasonable for it. DRO is OLD - so giving it a value of $300 is a lot. Both power feeds are OLD as well - at least 30 years old or more. Clamping set $50. Extra R8 $50 (if in excellent condition). Chucks - $50 each - you can buy them easily fro that much. Not sure about that LFA chuck - maybe its more like $200? Milling cutters $30 (generous price).

Overall price asked is at least double its value.

You can get a brand new milling machine imported to Canada with all NEW accessories quoted for about $12000. Made in Taiwan.

Regarding the $4500 mill - this is similar to what I sold except it has smaller motor, is probably older and has no power draw bar. I would offer max $4000 if you really want it or less if you are looking for a deal.


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## Tom Kitta (Jan 8, 2020)

Dabbler said:


> Both of those mills are in the 4k+ range.  the expensive one is speculatively priced.  A used BP, in pristine condition, should go for 5-6K max.  You can buy a really good one in Vancouver and have it shipped for about 800$ (I did)  (mine cost 4500$ shipping included to my garage, tailgate delivery).



If you did not have any power features on yours or just one power thingy then your price would match exactly what I sold mine for - verifying now twice market value.


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## PeterT (Jan 8, 2020)

I'm not up to speed on latest prices but a brand new Taiwan 9x35 BP clone goes for about 9K$ FOB your door in Calgary +GST +/- exchange. Next size up 9x49, probably +2K$? its typically same head but some brands increase the motor HP. Depending on your available shop amp duty, 'electrics' are important decision makers. Align/Taiwan brand power feeds are in the 500 range for table, 575 for knee; about 30% less for Chinese versions. DRO's vary but lots of happy customers with Chinese brands. Sometimes mills are sold as packages & accessories bundled at lower cost and pre-installed. Kurt DX6 crossover is ~$635, the 6" versatile ~$965.
https://www.kbctools.com/catsearch/352/milling-machine-vises

Guys on the forum know better than me but usually if everything is in nice shape your should be able to apply a factor like say 60% times new. If its old, outdated, issues... price goes down. But there are always exceptions.

Calgary / Edmonton reference
http://www.moderntool.com/products/category/milling-machines-new/

BC reference
https://www.kbctools.com/CatSearch/1540/manual-knee-mills


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## Dabbler (Jan 8, 2020)

I'm having to sell one of my mills before spring.  I have 4 in a small garage - well 3, actually, my new-to-me 7X42 BP clone is coming Very Soon Now.  I'll have no room!

[I just can't figure what mill to sell!]


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## Overkill19 (Jan 9, 2020)

Dabbler said:


> I'm having to sell one of my mills before spring. I have 4 in a small garage - well 3, actually, my new-to-me 7X42 BP clone is coming Very Soon Now. I'll have no room!
> 
> [I just can't figure what mill to sell!]



Nice! I still have a bag of goodies for ya! I haven’t forgot just haven’t made it to yyc yet! 


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## Tom Kitta (Jan 9, 2020)

PeterT said:


> I'm not up to speed on latest prices but a brand new Taiwan 9x35 BP clone goes for about 9K$ FOB your door in Calgary +GST +/- exchange. Next size up 9x49, probably +2K$? its typically same head but some brands increase the motor HP. Depending on your available shop amp duty, 'electrics' are important decision makers. Align/Taiwan brand power feeds are in the 500 range for table, 575 for knee; about 30% less for Chinese versions. DRO's vary but lots of happy customers with Chinese brands. Sometimes mills are sold as packages & accessories bundled at lower cost and pre-installed. Kurt DX6 crossover is ~$635, the 6" versatile ~$965.
> https://www.kbctools.com/catsearch/352/milling-machine-vises
> 
> Guys on the forum know better than me but usually if everything is in nice shape your should be able to apply a factor like say 60% times new. If its old, outdated, issues... price goes down. But there are always exceptions.
> ...



You are way over pricing it. AL-501S for the knee I got as a present for myself for Christmas. It came in at 267 USD which is 350 CAD including shipping. This is premium power feed. I am still waiting for tax on it which will add 5% plus 15 for brokerage. So Under 400 CAD all in. They are all over aliexpress / eBay. 

As for the mill you do the import it is far less then if you buy from say modern tool - but you have to deal with warranty by Chinese company if anything is broken. You can see the clones on alibaba are no more then 4k USD in size you specified. Then you need to ship it to Canada which will add extra 2k (or more). See here - https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/knee-milling.html Some in 5k range include power feeds and DRO all installed. Obviously you need to do work to actually GET that lower price but its not impossible. 

Prices quoted on alibaba are almost always with delivery to port included. Then you need to hire company to do paperwork and shipping company (it is a bit more to ship less then container load) then you either pick it up in Vancouver or add extra for shipping it to your door in Calgary. If you were to sell it commercially you also need a little sticker saying it is approved electrical appliance in Canada. 

BTW DX6 Kurt price of 1055 CAD is regular price - I got my a bit older model D688 for just over 600 CAD three years ago. Travers tool has them on sale for just 710 CAD - https://www.traverscanada.com/dx6-crossover-precision-machine-vise/p/61-421-171/ 

I go now and post above in deals - as I think 710 CAD for that vise is a deal. Free shipping.


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## Dabbler (Jan 9, 2020)

710CAD is a smokin' price for a real 6"  Kurt.  My Kurt clone 688 style, came in a 500 CAD _on sale_!

Most of us don't want to be shipping something so big or costly as a first experience from Asia.  In many cases, it justifies the markup of a retailer.

I had a look at Travers, and they said they would 'call me with a quote for shipping'.  That seems ominous, and they want you to pay for it first!  I'll call them tomorrow and verify the shipping,  just in case anyone wants one.


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## PeterT (Jan 10, 2020)

Tom Kitta said:


> You are way over pricing it. AL-501S for the knee I got as a present for myself for Christmas. It came in at 267 USD which is 350 CAD including shipping. This is premium power feed. I am still waiting for tax on it which will add 5% plus 15 for brokerage. So Under 400 CAD all in. They are all over aliexpress / eBay.



I was just using round numbers for overall mill package discussion. But my guesstimate 575 CDN (for Taiwan Align FOB Calgary) less my guesstimate ~30% less for Chinese equivalent = 402$ CDN. Not much different than your ~$400 apples to apples. For sure everyone should check around, prices vary over time, often by the same distributors. 

Reading some posts ~5 years ago, lots of guys were having issues with Chinese powerfeeds, mainly electronics. The electrical savvy guys showed where they cut corners on components. Then they couldn't find Lucky Lucy's Purses & Mill Accessories Ebay storefront for warranty or parts. (That was a joke). But like many things, they have generally improved over time...although you never really know whats inside unless that's your forte. I had an Ebay  Chinese PF on my RF-45, worked fine for the several years I had it, no issues.


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## PeterT (Jan 10, 2020)

Tom Kitta said:


> BTW DX6 Kurt price of 1055 CAD is regular price - I got my a bit older model D688 for just over 600 CAD three years ago. Travers tool has them on sale for just 710 CAD - https://www.traverscanada.com/dx6-crossover-precision-machine-vise/p/61-421-171/



Isn't that link the 'DX6 crossover'? KBC has it for about same price, actually 30$ less
https://www.kbctools.com/itemdetail/1-5721-DX6

I think the 688 is no longer made, but a great vise, especially for 600. Sometimes they blow them out when new models come in. I got my Bison vise that way.
https://www.traverscanada.com/d688-precision-machine-vise/p/61-421-170/


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## PeterT (Jan 10, 2020)

Nobody ever talks about this TMX 6", currently 562 CDN.  ** edit, sorry that's USD on the dot com website*** 
My experience with the brand name (Bison essentially) has always been very high quality.
https://www.kbctools.com/itemdetail/3-220-0068
KBC always has some kind of 10-15% discount promo usually once every month or so, so another ~70 off that.
The problem with vises is if you guess wrong, its an 80 pound return trip home. Worth the gamble if inside Canada, not so much fun international.


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## PeterT (Jan 10, 2020)

Dabbler said:


> I had a look at Travers, and they said they would 'call me with a quote for shipping'.  That seems ominous, and they want you to pay for it first!  I'll call them tomorrow and verify the shipping,  just in case anyone wants one.



Same deal with KBC, John. Their 10.95 flat fee is for under 50 pounds. I got one heavy thing a long time ago. Shipping wasn't killer though. I think it came by truck, Canpar or Lewis. Best to compare all in quotes. I think KBC switched to Fedex recently, used to be the brown truck. Same delivery though, no issues.


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## Dabbler (Jan 10, 2020)

PeterT said:


> Isn't that link the 'DX6 crossover'? KBC has it for about same price, actually 30$ less
> https://www.kbctools.com/itemdetail/1-5721-DX6



Sorry Peter:  that's the US price to US customers only.  Tthe _Canadian _price is $1055.86
https://www.kbctools.ca/products/search/dx6


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## PeterT (Jan 10, 2020)

Ah sorry dot com, wrong link. That will teach me to google vs going into CDN website directly. My internet dark presence tactics are working lol


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## Dabbler (Jan 10, 2020)

So Thomas Skinner will match the Travers price, and no shipping.   I have a quote for 710.00 FOB calgary.


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## PeterT (Jan 10, 2020)

That’s a good technique to keep in mind, thanks for sharing.


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## Tom Kitta (Jan 10, 2020)

PeterT said:


> Nobody ever talks about this TMX 6", currently 562 CDN. My experience with the brand name (Bison essentially) has always been very high quality.
> https://www.kbctools.com/itemdetail/3-220-0068
> KBC always has some kind of 10-15% discount promo usually once every month or so, so another ~70 off that.
> The problem with vises is if you guess wrong, its an 80 pound return trip home. Worth the gamble if inside Canada, not so much fun international.



Problem is that TMX / Bison recently moved production from Poland to Taiwan. They claim that the quality is the same. Not sure what stock is for 562 CAD - made in Poland or made in Taiwan. 

This is probably why the price is so attractive.

Not sure about the claim of quality.


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## Tom Kitta (Jan 10, 2020)

PeterT said:


> I was just using round numbers for overall mill package discussion. But my guesstimate 575 CDN (for Taiwan Align FOB Calgary) less my guesstimate ~30% less for Chinese equivalent = 402$ CDN. Not much different than your ~$400 apples to apples. For sure everyone should check around, prices vary over time, often by the same distributors.
> 
> Reading some posts ~5 years ago, lots of guys were having issues with Chinese powerfeeds, mainly electronics. The electrical savvy guys showed where they cut corners on components. Then they couldn't find Lucky Lucy's Purses & Mill Accessories Ebay storefront for warranty or parts. (That was a joke). But like many things, they have generally improved over time...although you never really know whats inside unless that's your forte. I had an Ebay  Chinese PF on my RF-45, worked fine for the several years I had it, no issues.



Align and ALSGS use same parts - you can interchange. They even use same control board. 

If you want to go cheap Chinese there was a thread on here (this website) about sub $200 CAD power feeds on eBay. I would not be surprised if a lot of corners were cut on such cheap power feeds. Certainly most of us, including me, would pay more for Taiwan, but not 50% more - at least not me - when both power feeds are more or less the same.

Not sure if anyone got the sub $200 power feed and tested it out.


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## PeterT (Jan 10, 2020)

Tom Kitta said:


> Problem is that TMX / Bison recently moved production from Poland to Taiwan.



Hadn't heard that, good to know, All product lines or just some? I know the chuck I got was made in Poland date stamped ~ a year ago. Not that I really care either way as long as the quality is decent. Bison prices getting crazy out of control.


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## Tom Kitta (Jan 14, 2020)

I just heard about vises production that was moved. Not sure about other items. Move was recent - like a year or two ago. Not sure whatever it is only some models or all vises.


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## Dabbler (Jan 14, 2020)

I'm cautiously optimistic about the move to Taiwan...  My Taiwanese Kurt 688 clone is superb.  Now they could cheap out by moving, but I hope it is as good as mine.


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## Overkill19 (Jan 26, 2020)

Anyone have good or bad to say about XLO Mills?


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## Dabbler (Jan 27, 2020)

I've seen them in shops.  They seem to stand up to normal machine shop wear. Didn't hear the fateful words "them there are lemons" so they must be at least okay.


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## John Conroy (Jan 27, 2020)

If it's an Excello XLO machine it is Canadian made and a very good machine. They were manufactured in Ontario up to 1985. After that there were XLO mills that were made in Taiwan that are generic Bridgeport clones. The Excello mills were alot beefier than the B-port clones and nice examples are hard to find. A friend of mine had an Excello and it has a cool feature. The ram is machined flat on both  ends so 2 heads can be mounted.

http://www.lathes.co.uk/excello/


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## Overkill19 (Jan 27, 2020)

Thx it was a Excello, but about a hour after I posted the question ... it sold. I’m too old and slow I guess. But I’m more informed for the next one! Thx guys


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## Overkill19 (Jan 27, 2020)

Tapatalk double post! Delete
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## Overkill19 (Jan 27, 2020)

Nice but a long drive!


https://www.kijiji.ca/v-power-tool/...p_ios&utm_medium=social&utm_source=ios_social


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## John Conroy (Jan 27, 2020)

That looks like a great deal for someone in eastern ON.


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## Overkill19 (Jan 29, 2020)

So let me ask ya this... which is a better buy? 
A XLO or Bridgeport in good shape or a new Precision Matthews knee mill? 
Granted that xlo was $3500 vs a PM I’d guess would be $5-$7000

I like the size of the PM being a little smaller than the BP


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## Dabbler (Jan 29, 2020)

XLO by a very large margin.  I bought a First 9X49 for over 4000.  Still happy with it.  The xlo is a far better machine.


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