# Hi from Kitchener, ON



## LenVW (Oct 25, 2021)

Machinist + Designer looking for 3/4 hp mini mill to rebuild.
Semi-Retirement leaves me with time to revisit home builds.
My shop is small but I have a lot of 2D design experience In industrial process machinery.
-Len VanWonderen


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## CalgaryPT (Oct 25, 2021)

Welcome aboard from Calgary.


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## Tomc938 (Oct 25, 2021)

Welcome from Vancouver Island!


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## Canadium (Oct 25, 2021)

Hi from Hamilton ON!


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## gerritv (Oct 25, 2021)

Hi from St Catharines.
I will have a small horizontal (unkonwn brand) mill for sale soon. 1/2hp motor, ER32 collet chuck.

Gerrit


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## trlvn (Oct 25, 2021)

Welcome from Oakville.

Craig


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## 6.5 Fan (Oct 25, 2021)

Welcome from SK.


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## gmihovics (Oct 25, 2021)

Welcome from London ON.


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## Oldarm (Oct 25, 2021)

LenVW said:


> Machinist + Designer looking for 3/4 hp mini mill to rebuild.
> Semi-Retirement leaves me with time to revisit home builds.
> My shop is small but I have a lot of 2D design experience In industrial process machinery.
> -Len VanWonderen


And welcome from Brampton Ontario! John.


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## Susquatch (Oct 26, 2021)

Welcome from Ontario farmland! (South of Chatham). 

I get to KW fairly often. My wife's mom is in an old-age complex there. I usually have to wait in the parking lot. I'd love an excuse to go with her but visit elsewhere. Let me know if you ever need help.


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## gmihovics (Oct 26, 2021)

Susquatch said:


> I get to KW fairly often. My wife's mom is in an old-age complex there. I usually have to wait in the parking lot. I'd love an excuse to go with her but visit elsewhere. Let me know if you ever need help.



I work in Waterloo and drive in twice a week so always willing to meet up for help too.


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## LenVW (Oct 26, 2021)

Susquatch said:


> Welcome from Ontario farmland! (South of Chatham).
> 
> I get to KW fairly often. My wife's mom is in an old-age complex there. I usually have to wait in the parking lot. I'd love an excuse to go with her but visit elsewhere. Let me know if you ever need help.


I am still helping an automotive/machinery supplier so I work every morning and some afternoons. I can remember being in Chatham when BUNGE had grain milling operations there.
Where is your mother-in-law ? We live near HomerWatson Blvd and Strasburg Road in Kitchener.


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## LenVW (Oct 26, 2021)

gmihovics said:


> I work in Waterloo and drive in twice a week so always willing to meet up for help too.


Thanks for the offer, I still have to purchase a mill or lathe. But if you know of a used mini-mill for sale let me know. So far I have combined a Drill Press with an X-Y mill table to layout and position dowels and guide bushings holes in templates.


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## Susquatch (Oct 26, 2021)

LenVW said:


> I am still helping an automotive/machinery supplier so I work every morning and some afternoons. I can remember being in Chatham when BUNGE had grain milling operations there.
> Where is your mother-in-law ? We live near HomerWatson Blvd and Strasburg Road in Kitchener.



She is at the north west end near the university. 

No biggie, just wanting to help if you need any.


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## Susquatch (Oct 26, 2021)

LenVW said:


> Thanks for the offer, I still have to purchase a mill or lathe. But if you know of a used mini-mill for sale let me know. So far I have combined a Drill Press with an X-Y mill table to layout and position dowels and guide bushings holes in templates.



Sounds like my history. Been there done that. You will enjoy a nice mill (big or small) way more.


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## gmihovics (Oct 26, 2021)

LenVW said:


> Thanks for the offer, I still have to purchase a mill or lathe. But if you know of a used mini-mill for sale let me know. So far I have combined a Drill Press with an X-Y mill table to layout and position dowels and guide bushings holes in templates.


I came across this in facebook marketplace. It's a little bit of a drive for you but not too far.






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@Susquatch might have some input on this mill for you.

For $150 more there is a bridgeport closer to you in Stratford






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## Dabbler (Oct 27, 2021)

@LenVW Welcome to the forum

You are off to a good start.  It took 5+ years for me to find my first mill, and then machines seemd to jump out of the woodwork....

Sometimes one of the members will sell their pervious machine at a good price to another member - and you live in a great place for deals.  Something will come up.


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## LenVW (Oct 27, 2021)

A full size knee mill is too big To get into my basement workspace.
Looking at used Craftex or New King Canada.
Let me know if you. Know of one.
Thanks.  M.519-320-0384


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## LenVW (Oct 27, 2021)

Susquatch said:


> Sounds like my history. Been there done that. You will enjoy a nice mill (big or small) way more.


I have not been in Chatham for years. When my Dad had a tobacco farm in 1970, we were there for an auction sale and bought a 3020 John Deere tractor. Wow time really does fly !!
Where did you get your machining experience ?


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## LenVW (Oct 27, 2021)

trlvn said:


> Welcome from Oakville.
> 
> Craig


Craig
I am thru Oakville on the 403 every few days.

Do you have experience on a XLO 602 or Bridgeport ?
What do you use the Craftex B1977 for ?
What size of endmill will it handle in 1018 steel ?
What do You like about the mill ?


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## trlvn (Oct 27, 2021)

LenVW said:


> Craig
> I am thru Oakville on the 403 every few days.
> 
> Do you have experience on a XLO 602 or Bridgeport ?
> ...


I'm new to machining and I have no experience with a Bridgeport or clone.  So far, my Craftex mill/drill has primarily been an obstacle preventing my wife from parking out of the weather!  I'm currently working on redoing my basement shop to have a metalworking end.  In fact, the electrician was here today putting in the 220 circuit that the mill needs.  Now I just have to finish the walls and move a ton of stuff back into the basement...including disassembling the mill/drill into manageable chunks to take down the stairs.

That said, I think the Craftex is pretty capable.  It will take a healthy cut in steel.  It doesn't have back gears so the lowest spindle speed is 120 rpm.  But top speed is a pretty reasonable 2500 rpm.  Hopefully this winter I'll be doing a lot more with it.

Craig


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## Susquatch (Oct 27, 2021)

Ya, I'm surrounded by tobacco farms. But I only grow row crops - corn, soybeans, wheat, etc. 

It would be a mistake to call me an experienced machinist. Most good machinists have forgotten more than I ever knew. However, I have reached that magic point in my life where I actually do know enough to know how much I don't know! 

I am what most people would call a hobbiest. Basically a fellow who loves machining but never really got paid any serious money to do it. 

I did have a great career though and spent a lot of time rubbing shoulders with the machinists. As far as I know, I was the only front office fellow who was allowed to use their shop machines. I got an old lathe when I was about 40 or so and converted an old drill press into a mill of sorts by adding an X-Y table. I used them to support my hobbies and to make or repair things for myself, my family, and my friends. When I retired from industry, I decided to buy a farm and that got me into fabricating and repairing used machinery cuz I couldn't afford new stuff. I also upgraded my mill to a column mill/drill and bought a much better lathe. I'm quite popular with the neighbours cuz I can fix and fabricate things that they can't. 10 years later, I am just finished buying and repairing a really nice old knee mill that I have fallen in love with.


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## LenVW (Oct 27, 2021)

trlvn said:


> I'm new to machining and I have no experience with a Bridgeport or clone.  So far, my Craftex mill/drill has primarily been an obstacle preventing my wife from parking out of the weather!  I'm currently working on redoing my basement shop to have a metalworking end.  In fact, the electrician was here today putting in the 220 circuit that the mill needs.  Now I just have to finish the walls and move a ton of stuff back into the basement...including disassembling the mill/drill into manageable chunks to take down the stairs.
> 
> That said, I think the Craftex is pretty capable.  It will take a healthy cut in steel.  It doesn't have back gears so the lowest spindle speed is 120 rpm.  But top speed is a pretty reasonable 2500 rpm.  Hopefully this winter I'll be doing a lot more with it.
> 
> Craig


Thanks for the info.
I apprenticed as a machinist with ExCellO Canada back in the 80s. 
I spent four years milling boring bars and carbide cartridges for GM Diesel, Hitachi, Ford and Willeys Tooling.
I am particularly interested in the B1977 size, due to the size of my basement shop. 
See the attached photos.
I do have access to a FIRST 9x36 vertical mill, close by.


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## YYCHM (Oct 27, 2021)

LenVW said:


> See the attached photos.



No images?


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## LenVW (Oct 27, 2021)

Susquatch said:


> Ya, I'm surrounded by tobacco farms. But I only grow row crops - corn, soybeans, wheat, etc.
> 
> It would be a mistake to call me an experienced machinist. Most good machinists have forgotten more than I ever knew. However, I have reached that magic point in my life where I actually do know enough to know how much I don't know!
> 
> ...


I apprenticed as a machinist with ExCellO Canada back in the 80s. The company had a huge plant in London and a smaller one in Clinton, where I went to high school and received the placement from the plant in town.
I spent four years milling boring bars and carbide cartridges for GM Diesel, Hitachi, Ford and Willeys Tooling. Then the recession hit and layoffs were everywhere. 
I went back to school to study mechanical design and business.
I recently bought an old King Canada drill press and bolted an X-Y table to its base.
Letting the chips fly brought back memories even though my career has been spent designing machinery and developing processes, every company I worked for had some form of machine or fabricating shop (Not much CNC).
If you hear of a used mini mill in Ontario for sale, give me a call.
The field close to our house in Kitchener is for hi moisture corn.
Len - M.519-320-0384


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## Brent H (Oct 27, 2021)

Hey @LenVW - Welcome from just North of Barrie!

Hope you are having some fun on the site!

@Susquatch : I Lived in Windsor, Merlin and Chatham - moved out East and then back to Barrie, then out of Barrie.....lots of time in my teens out at Lake Erie on the beach 

@trlvn : Craig - if you need a hand moving stuff - let me know - I will bring in the troops and gett'er done for you


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## LenVW (Oct 27, 2021)

gmihovics said:


> I came across this in facebook marketplace. It's a little bit of a drive for you but not too far.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks Garret, but I cannot get a full size ‘knee mill’ into my basement shop.
I do have access to a FIRST 9x36 which is a couple of miles away.
A used Craftex or other desktop mill would be nice.
Thanks
Len in Kitchener (M. 519-320-0384)


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## Susquatch (Oct 27, 2021)

Brent H said:


> I Lived in Windsor, Merlin and Chatham - moved out East and then back to Barrie, then out of Barrie.....lots of time in my teens out at Lake Erie on the beach



I worked in Windsor my whole career. We lived in Windsor for a while and then further south near Amherstburg. 

Merlin is actually the closest place to my farm with a post office. You didn't by any chance swim at Burns Beach did you? Or was that at Erieau?


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## trlvn (Oct 27, 2021)

Brent H said:


> @trlvn : Craig - if you need a hand moving stuff - let me know - I will bring in the troops and gett'er done for you


Thanks for the offer Brent but I think we're under control.  I've got a self-imposed deadline of next week.  I rented one of those storage cubes dropped on my driveway.  If I keep it past next Wednesday, I'll have to pay another month's rent.  SWMBO is not in favour of that!  Besides, it is a good excuse to put my 2 freeloading kids to work.

Craig


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## trlvn (Oct 27, 2021)

LenVW said:


> A used Craftex or other desktop mill would be nice.


I don't know why, but it is often 'feast or famine' on these.  There were a couple of similar machines at (online) auction a couple of months ago.  They also pop up on Kijiji from time to time.  Note that prices seemed to go 20-30% when Covid started.  My theory is that more people were looking for a hobby during the pandemic.  The actual price will depend on condition and accessories (DRO, power feed, nice vise, tooling).  If you see one on Kijiji at a reasonable price, you have to pounce on it or it will be gone.

Good luck and I'll keep an eye out.

Craig


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## Brent H (Oct 27, 2021)

Roger that Craig!

@Susquatch : Erieau - yep! and Rondeau?  I know we we all over there as kids.  I know people in Lemington as well


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## gmihovics (Oct 27, 2021)

LenVW said:


> A full size knee mill is too big To get into my basement workspace.
> Looking at used Craftex or New King Canada.
> Let me know if you. Know of one.
> Thanks.  M.519-320-0384


if you're willing to drive to Oshawa there are two craftex mills being sold together.





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## darrin1200 (Oct 28, 2021)

Welcome Len, from a little village called Lyn in Eastern Ontario.
I used to live in Guelph/Kitchener. I actually enlisted at the Kitchener recruiting office. Most of my family still lives there, I just don’t get back often enough.

I’ve got my eyes peeled for a craftex mini milldrill. Seems like a good fit between budget and shop space. But they are few and far between at a decent price. Most of the ones I see are asking a couple of bucks under new price.

While out of my budget, that pair in Oshawa looks like a good deal.


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## Susquatch (Oct 28, 2021)

darrin1200 said:


> While out of my budget, that pair in Oshawa looks like a good deal.



I'm not so sure. The add says he kept the spare around to keep repairing the working unit. That doesn't say much about the reliabity of the units themselves. Maybe I'm wrong to think that way, but it would make me nervous. 

I was actually looking at a busy bee mill until I talked to one of their employees who told me to forget it. He said they work good until the plastic gears strip - apparently they cannot hold a good load for long. 

When the sales guy steers you away......


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## Susquatch (Oct 28, 2021)

@darrin1200 , @LenVW , @gmihovics (hope I didn't leave anyone out - please forward if I did.) 

Here is a small mill on Kijiji in Paris. I'm not vouching for it, just pointing it out. I know zero about the model.









						Kijiji - Buy, Sell & Save with Canada's #1 Local Classifieds
					

Visit Kijiji Classifieds to buy, sell, or trade almost anything! New and used items, cars, real estate, jobs, services, vacation rentals and more virtually anywhere.




					www.kijiji.ca


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## gmihovics (Oct 28, 2021)

Susquatch said:


> I'm not so sure. The add says he kept the spare around to keep repairing the working unit. That doesn't say much about the reliabity of the units themselves. Maybe I'm wrong to think that way, but it would make me nervous.
> 
> I was actually looking at a busy bee mill until I talked to one of their employees who told me to forget it. He said they work good until the plastic gears strip - apparently they cannot hold a good load for long.
> 
> When the sales guy steers you away......


@LenVW seemed pretty sold on the craftex mills so I thought I would pass it along. You are right though, needing a part donor doesn't make owning own sound promising.

if a sales guy is warning you, you should just run away, he's either going to upsell you or their products are that bad. Either way you are probably going to regret listening to them later.


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## LenVW (Oct 28, 2021)

I will try again.
See the attached.


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## Susquatch (Oct 28, 2021)

LenVW said:


> I will try again.
> See the attached.


No attachment Len.


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## LenVW (Oct 28, 2021)

Susquatch said:


> Sounds like my history. Been there done that. You will enjoy a nice mill (big or small) way more.


I am using the ‘Attach files’ button in the message screen ?
Here are two photos.


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## LenVW (Oct 28, 2021)

LenVW said:


> I will try again.
> See the attached.


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## LenVW (Oct 28, 2021)

gmihovics said:


> @LenVW seemed pretty sold on the craftex mills so I thought I would pass it along. You are right though, needing a part donor doesn't make owning own sound promising.
> 
> if a sales guy is warning you, you should just run away, he's either going to upsell you or their products are that bad. Either way you are probably going to regret listening to them later.


I do not have any first hand experience with the Craftex line of mills.
I was hoping that someone had experience to add. 
I have been to the store in Mississauga and looked over a few 1/2hp models.
The King Canada KC-15VS is a basic desktop unit but it is 3/4hp.

I worked on Ex-Cell-O #604s knee mills and can assure you that they are the most robust vertical mills I have seen. I liked the Ex-Cell-O better then Bridgeports. They are full size mills and meant for full time production shops.  We utilized them to produce many boring heads and tool holders as well as carbide cartridges. Unfortunately, I do not have room for a full size mill.

Does anybody have a SEIG ? . . . Or Harbor Freight ?
Any horror stories about these models ?


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## gmihovics (Oct 28, 2021)

LenVW said:


> I do not have any first hand experience with the Craftex line of mills.
> I was hoping that someone had experience to add.
> I have been to the store in Mississauga and looked over a few 1/2hp models.
> The King Canada KC-15VS is a basic desktop unit but it is 3/4hp.
> ...


I don't have any first hand experience with the SIEG line but I have heard really good things. The machine listed by @Susquatch is actually a SIEG X2 from the looks of it. They are a very reputable machine in the mini mill market. the main complaint from what I've seen is the z column has a tilt adjustment for milling on an angle. some people say that makes it less rigid. 

http://littlemachineshop.com has all kinds of replacement and upgrade kits for this machine and they are relatively inexpensive.

here is the Kijiji link again










						Kijiji - Buy, Sell & Save with Canada's #1 Local Classifieds
					

Visit Kijiji Classifieds to buy, sell, or trade almost anything! New and used items, cars, real estate, jobs, services, vacation rentals and more virtually anywhere.




					www.kijiji.ca


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## darrin1200 (Oct 28, 2021)

Susquatch said:


> @darrin1200 , @LenVW , @gmihovics (hope I didn't leave anyone out - please forward if I did.)
> 
> Here is a small mill on Kijiji in Paris. I'm not vouching for it, just pointing it out. I know zero about the model.
> 
> ...


This is the type of pricing I was talking about. The equivalent of this mill new, is $999 right now with a warranty. The only thing extra is a few collets. To me a good price on this would be more down around $600-700. Or am I to unreasonable?









						MILLING MACHINE MINI CRAFTEX CSA CX605
					

Milling Machine Mini Craftex The CX605 is a small, high accuracy and affordable milling and drilling machine. It features a 1/2 HP motor and has a maximum milling capacity of 5/8" and drilling capacity of 1/2".




					www.busybeetools.com


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## YYCHM (Oct 28, 2021)

CX605 Down Feed Tune Up
					

Finally got fed up with the sloppy down feed and head drop issues on my CX605 and decided to do something about it.    Apparently the head drop issue has to do with the poor mesh between the column rack and up/down feed gear as well as the sprung head support system.  I tackled the mesh issue by...




					canadianhobbymetalworkers.com


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## Susquatch (Oct 28, 2021)

Actually, yes I think you are being unreasonable. The craftex has a plastic gear drive. That's part of what makes it so inexpensive. 

I'm NOT saying that the one in the ad is any better. For all I know it make have plastic gears too. 

What I do know is the the Craftex has lots of complaints. Google it for yourself. I decided totally against buying a new one. But I understand the ok'd ones are better made. So I might have considered a used unit. 

Basically, I would pay more for a solid reliable machine that is used than a new one that is fragile with a reputation for problems.


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## gmihovics (Oct 28, 2021)

darrin1200 said:


> This is the type of pricing I was talking about. The equivalent of this mill new, is $999 right now with a warranty. The only thing extra is a few collets. To me a good price on this would be more down around $600-700. Or am I to unreasonable?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm kind of with you, I would want to see if I could get it for 700-750 but what do I know lol I'm a newbie. I just know that this model has the smaller table compared to the x2d and does indeed have plastic gears on the headstock and drive. I can get metal gears and a belt drive kit from little machine shop and I can even get the larger table with fixed z column if I wanted to to basically upgrade it to the x2d.

if I factor in the price of the gears, assuming they have seen abused which I think is likely, I would want to try and offset that repair cost.

I'm actually trying to find a way to bypass the spending embargo  and see if I can't snap it up if @LenVW isn't interested.


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## Susquatch (Oct 28, 2021)

I wonder how much the tooling would cost to make steel gears for it yourself. I made a small gear for my mill drill and it's still hanging in there.


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## LenVW (Oct 28, 2021)

gmihovics said:


> @LenVW seemed pretty sold on the craftex mills so I thought I would pass it along. You are right though, needing a part donor doesn't make owning own sound promising.
> 
> if a sales guy is warning you, you should just run away, he's either going to upsell you or their products are that bad. Either way you are probably going to regret listening to them later.


If you check the history of LMS Mills in the USA they are supplying a ‘belt drive’ conversion kit for their mini mills. It replaces the plastic gears and reduces the noise generated by the meshing teeth in the drive train.


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## Susquatch (Oct 28, 2021)

LenVW said:


> If you check the history of LMS Mills in the USA they are supplying a ‘belt drive’ conversion kit for their mini mills. It replaces the plastic gears and reduces the noise generated by the meshing teeth in the drive train.



Sounds like a plan!


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## gmihovics (Oct 28, 2021)

Susquatch said:


> Sounds like a plan!


they even have an upgraded 500W brushless motor on their higher end model.


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## Susquatch (Oct 28, 2021)

Oooooo...... VFD capable then..... Starting to sound like a hell of a machine!


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## YYCHM (Oct 28, 2021)

LenVW said:


> If you check the history of LMS Mills in the USA they are supplying a ‘belt drive’ conversion kit for their mini mills. It replaces the plastic gears and reduces the noise generated by the meshing teeth in the drive train.



See my post above.  After spending $300 upgrading my CX605 I was still left with a down feed that's wasn't all that great.  The belt drive conversion bypasses the two plastic gears.


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## Susquatch (Oct 28, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> The belt drive conversion only replaces one plastic gear, there are two.



Ya, all these upgrades are starting to add up. 

But near as I can tell, you love your machine and don't mind improving it. So there is a message there for everyone. 

Heck, my wife married me thinking she could turn me into something she could be proud of. That didn't work out like she planned but we are still married and we even had kids. Surely a mill can't be a bigger challenge! 

What do these gears look like? Why not make steel (or even brass) ones?


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## gmihovics (Oct 28, 2021)

Susquatch said:


> Ya, all these upgrades are starting to add up.
> 
> But near as I can tell, you love your machine and don't mind improving it. So there is a message there for everyone.
> 
> ...


here are the original plastic ones









						Spare Parts Kit, R8, Mini Mill 1703
					

Spare Parts Kits 1703 R8 Mini Mill Spindle Gears; 5 GMA-5 Fuses; 1 Motor Gear; 2 Spindle Gears; 2 Intermediate Shaft Gears; This kit contains the part...




					littlemachineshop.com
				




here are the metal versions









						Transmission Gear Kit | Steel Gear Kit
					

Never break expensive or hard-to-replace gears again! Once installed on your mini mill, this kit replaces plastic transmission gears with metal ones. Order for your workshop today.




					littlemachineshop.com


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## Susquatch (Oct 28, 2021)

gmihovics said:


> here are the original plastic ones
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Beautiful!

Those look like cast gears but so what. Still better than plastic. It looks pretty doable to make them out of steel or brass. The double gear will have to be made in two pieces that are then either pressed or welded or screwed together.

So the question is:

1. Do you want to buy a new one and use it to make the new gears or

2. Buy and new one and wait till December for new gears or

3. Find a decent used one and fix it instead?

Edit - for 100US you get metal gears. You can't buy a gear hob and arbour for less than that. I'd just wait for the metal gears to be available.

Again, @YYCHM (and others) really like their machines. It seems to me that metal gears and a few other changes are not a huge obstacle.


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## gmihovics (Oct 28, 2021)

Susquatch said:


> Beautiful!
> 
> Those look like cast gears but so what. Still better than plastic. It looks pretty doable to make them out of steel or brass. The double gear will have to be made in two pieces that are then either pressed or welded or screwed together.
> 
> ...


completely agree.


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## YYCHM (Oct 28, 2021)

Susquatch said:


> Again, @YYCHM (and others) really like their machines. It seems to me that metal gears and a few other changes are not a huge obstacle.



I'm not sure "really like" is an accurate statement.  I was trying to make do with what I had.  I ditched it the first chance I got to upgrade to a RF30 that I could afford.


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## Susquatch (Oct 28, 2021)

Just thinking out loud. 

For those of you with a lathe, you could make your own arbour and gear blanks and then grind a single tooth highspeed steel cutting bit to cut the gear teeth with. It would take a while, but I bet the result would be something to be very proud of!


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## Susquatch (Oct 28, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> I'm not sure "really like" is an accurate statement.  I was trying to make do with what I had.  I ditched it the first chance I got to upgrade to a RF30 that I could afford.



Ouch. Ok then. I never got that impression. 

So tell us then. What would you do if you were given the chance to do the whole thing over again?


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## trlvn (Oct 28, 2021)

My impression was that @LenVW is interested in an RF30 class (round column, circa 1.5 HP) whereas the machines with the failing plastic gears are RF45-type (mini mill with square column and .75 HP or less).  I don't think BusyBee even offers an RF30-class machine at this time.  Mine is a 2008 vintage.

King Canada's PDM-30 is an RF30 style machine, $2,700 at KBC:











						KING INDUSTRIAL,KING BENCH MILL/DRILL MACHINE 1.5HP 220V,6-125-030,KBC Tools & Machinery
					

KING INDUSTRIAL,KING BENCH MILL/DRILL MACHINE 1.5HP 220V,6-125-030,KBC Tools & Machinery




					www.kbctools.ca
				




Craig


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## YYCHM (Oct 28, 2021)

gmihovics said:


> completely agree.



@Susquatch  It has been suggested that upgrading the plastic gears with metal gears is just asking for the next weakest link in the drive train to fail causing even worse damage. The drive belt upgrade will slip before that happens.


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## YYCHM (Oct 28, 2021)

Susquatch said:


> Ouch. Ok then. I never got that impression.
> 
> So tell us then. What would you do if you were given the chance to do the whole thing over again?



Build a garage and plunk a Bridgeport in it  The mini was a compromise due to me being stuck working in my limited space basement shop.  It also started out as the companion to my mini-lathe, but I soon realized I wanted something bigger and better.  Both machines have since been upgraded.


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## Susquatch (Oct 28, 2021)

trlvn said:


> My impression was that @LenVW is interested in an RF30 class (round column, circa 1.5 HP) whereas the machines with the failing plastic gears are RF45-type (mini mill with square column and .75 HP or less).  I don't think BusyBee even offers an RF30-class machine at this time.  Mine is a 2008 vintage.
> 
> King Canada's PDM-30 is an RF30 style machine, $2,700 at KBC:
> 
> ...



That looks like it has a lot in common with my own round column mill/drill. But mega dollars. I didn't have the impression anybody wanted to spend that kind of coin. A *good* used one would probably still be 2 grand. My BP Clone is looking better by the minute.


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## gmihovics (Oct 28, 2021)

trlvn said:


> My impression was that @LenVW is interested in an RF30 class (round column, circa 1.5 HP) whereas the machines with the failing plastic gears are RF45-type (mini mill with square column and .75 HP or less).  I don't think BusyBee even offers an RF30-class machine at this time.  Mine is a 2008 vintage.
> 
> King Canada's PDM-30 is an RF30 style machine, $2,700 at KBC:
> 
> ...


if that's the case, there is a craftex rf30 clone up on Facebook marketplace near me, about an hour from @LenVW 



			https://m.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1108001080010372/


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## YYCHM (Oct 28, 2021)

RF30s can be had for less than a K.


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## Susquatch (Oct 28, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> RF30s can be had for less that a K.



As Carl Segan once said "Where are they"? 

I'm sort of glad I never found one though. I love my BP Clone.


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## LenVW (Oct 28, 2021)

trlvn said:


> My impression was that @LenVW is interested in an RF30 class (round column, circa 1.5 HP) whereas the machines with the failing plastic gears are RF45-type (mini mill with square column and .75 HP or less).  I don't think BusyBee even offers an RF30-class machine at this time.  Mine is a 2008 vintage.
> 
> King Canada's PDM-30 is an RF30 style machine, $2,700 at KBC:
> 
> ...


I am still deciding on what might work well for me. The 3/4hp King Canada KC-15VS looks the more favourable choice right now, but, I still have time to check other sources of NEW and USED machines.


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## LenVW (Oct 29, 2021)

gmihovics said:


> I'm kind of with you, I would want to see if I could get it for 700-750 but what do I know lol I'm a newbie. I just know that this model has the smaller table compared to the x2d and does indeed have plastic gears on the headstock and drive. I can get metal gears and a belt drive kit from little machine shop and I can even get the larger table with fixed z column if I wanted to to basically upgrade it to the x2d.
> 
> if I factor in the price of the gears, assuming they have seen abused which I think is likely, I would want to try and offset that repair cost.
> 
> I'm actually trying to find a way to bypass the spending embargo  and see if I can't snap it up if @LenVW isn't interested.


Go for it.
I do not want to start a bidding war with a fellow member.
I would find out how long he has had it and why he selling it.
It looks to be fairly new.


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## gmihovics (Oct 29, 2021)

LenVW said:


> Go for it.
> I do not want to start a bidding war with a fellow member.
> I would find out how long he has had it and why he selling it.
> It looks to be fairly new.


I'm going to have to pass so it's all yours.


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## LenVW (Nov 8, 2021)

The mini mill is a Princess Auto unit (less than 1/2hp).
The owner seems to want more then the original price.

I may go look at it this weekend because it is a short drive away, but, I think it is kind of tiny.


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## gmihovics (Nov 8, 2021)

I actually heard from the seller he sold it this morning


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## LenVW (Nov 9, 2021)

Ok, he was not going to move from the $875.
And said he bought it ‘used’ three years ago.
Princess Auto had them on sale in 2015 for $690.
It is only a little mill ?!?


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## gmihovics (Nov 9, 2021)

glad I didn't end up driving out to see it, I wouldn't pay the 875 after researching the issue with that mill. 



LenVW said:


> It is only a little mill ?!?



yes, those mills are very small, they only have like 5 inches of y travel. you can upgrade the table and z column to make it more rigid and have more x/y travel but then you are paying several hundred plus shipping to do so. all the upgrades to make it a decent little mill add up to the same cost of a used full-size mill in the end.


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## LenVW (Nov 9, 2021)

I talked to the seller today, it turns out he is retiring up to Northern Ontario. He said he got lucky and a guy came up with the $875 yesterday, no questions. We had similar career experiences and were both in Stratford thru the 1980s and 1990s.
I guess my search for a nice desktop mill continues.


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## LenVW (Jan 8, 2022)

Oldarm said:


> And welcome from Brampton Ontario! John.


John,
I just looked at the photo closer, did you machine an AVRO Arrow from a chunk of metal ?
I was up to the Carquest on Rutherford Road in Brampton on Tuesday.


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## YYCHM (Jan 8, 2022)

LenVW said:


> John,
> I just looked at the photo closer, did you machine an AVRO Arrow from a chunk of metal ?
> I was up to the Carquest on Rutherford Road in Brampton on Tuesday.



He casts them https://canadianhobbymetalworkers.com/threads/a-new-member-from-brampton-ontario.2504/


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## LenVW (Jan 8, 2022)

YYCHM said:


> He casts them https://canadianhobbymetalworkers.com/threads/a-new-member-from-brampton-ontario.2504/


Thanks Craig.
Is John a little tied up ?


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## YYCHM (Jan 8, 2022)

LenVW said:


> Thanks Craig.
> Is John a little tied up ?



He doesn't visit or post very often.....


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## LenVW (Jan 8, 2022)

Ok, I was just trying to reach out to a member that I travel close to on my business trips during the week. I work PT for a Carquest affiliate in Cambridge and I am into Brampton on Tuesdays and Friday to solve supply issues.


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## Oldarm (Jan 8, 2022)

LenVW said:


> John,
> I just looked at the photo closer, did you machine an AVRO Arrow from a chunk of metal ?
> I was up to the Carquest on Rutherford Road in Brampton on Tuesday.


Hello Len,
                The Arrows, like my other work are diecastings (PM). They start life as a "soft" model or pattern then a sand casting, then an aluminum die built from that. The final castings are in aluminum or one of the zinc/aluminum alloys. The dies are cast to size and never see a mill or machine tool (drill press excepted!) Yes, I'm still active! We just like to hide I guess. I'll attach a couple of snaps to show a bit of what I am up to currently.
If you were on Rutherford road the other day you were just two or three minutes away from my little workshop!


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## LenVW (Jan 8, 2022)

Cool stuff - John.
I looked after a lot of casting and machining when I was a project manager at Big O Machinery.
They were acquired by ARMTEC back in 1997.

I have not flown for 25 years, but I run across quite a few owner-pilots in the Kitchener Waterloo Recreational Aircraft Association.
Send me you Cell #.
The next time I am nearby, I will call and try to stop in.


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## Oldarm (Jan 8, 2022)

LenVW said:


> Cool stuff - John.
> I looked after a lot of casting and machining when I was a project manager at Big O Machinery.
> They were acquired by ARMTEC back in 1997.
> 
> ...


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## Oldarm (Jan 8, 2022)

My Cell is 905-783-4769.  Ordinarily, if you can remember that far back, it would have been a pleasure to welcome you into my shell hole for a natter. However as things stand right now and having a rather poorly and vulnerable wife too, I am erring on the side of caution as far as interactions. Once this thing is behind us it will be a pleasure to meet up with you. I have no schedules so the playbook is completely open.
It may be that you are familiar with a very close friend and pilot of mine from Kitchener, Ed Das? I'm not too sure where he flies from though.
John.


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## LenVW (Jan 8, 2022)

Yes, I must respect Covid-19 rules, so, it may be a couple months until I get back to you.
I understand you concern, my mother is in her 90’s.
Thanks for the Cell #.

I used to work with Brampton Engineering, which is at Dixie Road and Steeles Ave, on several process lines and product extrusion dies.

I do not know Ed Das, but we are having another on-line meeting this Thursday night.
I will ask around.      If I hear of anything, I will let you know !!


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## Oldarm (Jan 8, 2022)

LenVW said:


> Yes, I must respect Covid-19 rules, so, it may be a couple months until I get back to you.
> I understand you concern, my mother is in her 90’s.
> Thanks for the Cell #.
> 
> ...


Looking forward to the new "Normal". John.


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## LenVW (Jan 8, 2022)

YYCHM said:


> He doesn't visit or post very often.....


John has already contacted me.
I am within minutes of his place when I go into Brampton.
He has passed on his Cell# for when it is safe to meet.


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## ThirtyOneDriver (Jan 11, 2022)

Just joined to jump in on this thread - I have a Craftex CX611 (Seig SX3, Shop Fox M1111) in the south end of Cambridge (Dundas & Franklin ish) if you want to check out a Craftex before you buy.

... honestly, I could really use some "adult" guidance.

- Johnathan; "retired" military "fabricator"


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## Brent H (Jan 11, 2022)

> ... honestly, I could really use some "adult" guidance.



What seems to be the trouble son, we are listening.........


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