# KC 1236ML Lathe Thoughts?



## JohnnyTK (Jan 12, 2021)

I have been using my Taig and though I said to myself I would never go bigger, well now I think I might have to pull the plug and upgrade. Reason for going new is that it is shipped to my house. Hard to arrange pick up and delivery here in Toronto or find a group of friends willing to move a lathe during these times. I have looked at the Busy Bee 701/709 and reached out to Modern Tools in Newmarket Ontario but with no response and a previous post about the limited bore size of the spindle might be an issue MODERN 11" Swing, 26" between centers.(As I have only used Taig/Sherline not sure if this will be an issue for me).  PM Matthews lathes are nice but then you have to factor exchange, shipping and import duties, that is how I end up with KC1236ML?
Current Options:
Busy Bee 701 12"X 28" 
Busy Bee  70912"X 24"
Modern Tool CQ6128X660  11"X26"
King KC 1236ML


----------



## Tom Kitta (Jan 12, 2021)

It is a standard well featured gear head lathe. It is not some ultra high quality lathe AFAIK but also AFAIK not a junk. Its price of $5000 is very expensive through. 

Busy Bee 701  is smaller and has build in VFD - the VFD is nice as long as it does not break down. 

I used to have CX709 - new 5 years ago was running at 2400 CAD. Its much less full featured lathe then the one you are considering from King - CX709 has no QCGB and as you can see power feeding is through main screw. It is cheaper lathe. It will do the job but it is of basic Chinese quality with stuff cut off to make it cheaper. 

I would rather pay $3000 for quality used lathe and even pay riggers for full delivery. Even in AB I can get lathes for 2000-3000 range that will be used far better then new. And get a turn key rigging if you are afraid to move such rather small lathe (also a negative - these lathes are small).

The CX709 was dragged out of the shop with two people and then loaded onto a pickup with two people. It was not even close to hard. I would not even worry about getting these into basement or apartment. For reference we are talking about machines that are around 250kg with everything.


----------



## JohnnyTK (Jan 12, 2021)

Tom Kitta said:


> It is a standard well featured gear head lathe. It is not some ultra high quality lathe AFAIK but also AFAIK not a junk. Its price of $5000 is very expensive through.
> 
> Busy Bee 701  is smaller and has build in VFD - the VFD is nice as long as it does not break down.
> 
> ...


I will explore cost of riggers to see what it would cost to move from GTA to my place. Always concerned that I will get a used lemon instead of new lemon. Always appreciate everyone's input.


----------



## Tom Kitta (Jan 12, 2021)

For a small lathe you need guy with a truck.

Of much bigger concern is getting a lemon or a machine that is not worth what you are paying for it. If you don't know much about lathes try to convince someone that does know about them.


----------



## JohnnyTK (Jan 12, 2021)

Thanks for the input Tom. Got do a little thought on what I really require and not just use the "go big and you will grow into method" of purchasing.


----------



## David_R8 (Jan 12, 2021)

JohnnyTK said:


> Thanks for the input Tom. Got do a little thought on what I really require and not just use the "go big and you will grow into method" of purchasing.



Wait, there’s an alternative to that? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Tom Kitta (Jan 12, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> Wait, there’s an alternative to that?



He just did not realize yet that this is the path! At least the one we are all on


----------



## kevin.decelles (Jan 13, 2021)

We all could have saved 5-100k and simply had the two shafts we’ve machined for real sent out and done properly .......

But...... hey, I feel the presence of an antique shaper among us...... gotta run


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dabbler (Jan 13, 2021)

@JohnnyTK - it does matter if you are targeting your garage for the lathe or your basement.  Assuming you are a typical suburban house witha  garage, and you choose that, 'tail gate delivery' is reasonable for you.  2 mover's dollies for cheap from PA and you can get it into your garage nor problem...

A basement is different matter, however.

For used machines....  We have several quite knowledgeable members that can help you vet a lathe purchase, particularly by phone and picture.  There are also a few in the GTA that might be able to help in person.

If you are pre-sorting a used machine, and don't mind missing a few real gems, look for a clean machine that doesn't have rust on it, or chips left to rust in the tray.  Check the ways for damage, and ensure that the thing turns in all headstock gears.  Don't worry too much about the QCGB, unless it needs change gears:  for a beginner, you need all the manufacturer's gears.  The QCGB is seldom damaged on a lathe, and I haven't seen one worn out ever.  You want both 4 jaw and 3 jaw chucks.  A tail stock is not optional, either.

I was in a guys house today, and he had all the original manuals for a mill, and it was in showroom condition.  This is common for well kept machines by the original buyers, for instance.

A good used machine is about one half retail price, and usually has extra tooling thrown in for free.  Even a few extra tool holders and a few tools can amount to 200 bucks.  

One last thing.  You  might have noticed that the tooling for your Taig cost a big chunk of your lathe purchase.  It scales.  I spent over 2000$ on tooling my 12" lathe.  It took a few years to reach 1000$, but is still costs.  (I'm not including money spent on carbide or HSS)

I have bought 1 new lathe and 2 used ones.  1 new mill and 3 used ones.  After all is said and done, I'd go with patience and used.  There are risks that you can mitigate about buying a dud, but you are in Toronto - you can hire a millwright to check out a lathe if someone isn't close enough to help you out...


----------



## JohnnyTK (Jan 13, 2021)

Dabbler said:


> @JohnnyTK - it does matter if you are targeting your garage for the lathe or your basement.  Assuming you are a typical suburban house witha  garage, and you choose that, 'tail gate delivery' is reasonable for you.  2 mover's dollies for cheap from PA and you can get it into your garage nor problem...
> 
> A basement is different matter, however.
> 
> ...


Thanks for input and I will leave all options open and I will have to practice patience and push my Sherline and Taig to the max. So much to learn still and master, realized I have to walk before I run. But if I see the deal, I might sprint to it.


----------



## Brent H (Jan 13, 2021)

Where are you located @JohnnyTK ?   I just helped @architect move a nice lathe.  He should be posting details ...


----------



## Desab (Jan 13, 2021)

Well i bought a 13x24 sold it bought a 1440 sold it now i have a 16x40 i love it
there is a youtuber Everetts Workshop he has the same lathe your thinking of getting shoot him an email


----------



## Dabbler (Jan 13, 2021)

@Desab I did much the same thing 12X37 to start, a 14X40, then I got lucky and found a perfect 15X60.


----------



## Everett (Jan 14, 2021)

Johnny, I've had my KC1236ML for about 5 years now. It's ok, I'm thankful to even just have a lathe, but it is certainly far from perfect.  

It has an odd set of speed selection spread, the cross slide isn't the most rigid for a machine of its swing, and they didn't even put a set screw on the motor pulley overtop the key. The pulley kept wanting to walk off the shaft and wear inside the fiberglass belt cover.  Added my own set screw and problem solved. 

I got mine new for $3800, which was ok I guess, but it is rather surprising to see their $5k price tags now. I would think 5 grand to be a bit spendy for what the King machine really is but it is also sometimes a bit of a waiting game for a good used machine.


----------



## JohnnyTK (Jan 14, 2021)

JohnnyTK said:


> Thanks for input and I will leave all options open and I will have to practice patience and push my Sherline and Taig to the max. So much to learn still and master, realized I have to walk before I run. But if I see the deal, I might sprint to it.





Brent H said:


> Where are you located @JohnnyTK ?   I just helped @architect move a nice lathe.  He should be posting details ...


Collingwood Ontario


----------



## Brent H (Jan 14, 2021)

You are not far at all- I am just in Oro.  What lathe would you like - 10 x 20 up to 12 x 30 ish?  Do you have a price ceiling- typically I was looking at lathes $2500 and below.  
Also, you have to be ready to pounce if it is a good deal.  The Lathe we scored for @architect was on Kijiji for 23 minutes and I sent him the warning beacon to contact the seller.   Got a response just in the nick of time and there were a lot of looks.  The lathe could have been crap and we would have walked but it is a pretty decent machine.  
My work schedule is quite crazy but if I am home and have some time we can try and hook you up.   I brought my 2 ton roll crane to help move the lathe, worked out quite well.


----------



## JohnnyTK (Jan 14, 2021)

Brent H said:


> You are not far at all- I am just in Oro.  What lathe would you like - 10 x 20 up to 12 x 30 ish?  Do you have a price ceiling- typically I was looking at lathes $2500 and below.
> Also, you have to be ready to pounce if it is a good deal.  The Lathe we scored for @architect was on Kijiji for 23 minutes and I sent him the warning beacon to contact the seller.   Got a response just in the nick of time and there were a lot of looks.  The lathe could have been crap and we would have walked but it is a pretty decent machine.
> My work schedule is quite crazy but if I am home and have some time we can try and hook you up.   I brought my 2 ton roll crane to help move the lathe, worked out quite well.


I think 9 x up to 12x30 as I plan to use it for custom fittings and replacement parts for 2 captive customers that I'm currently involved with in for my job.  
I'm glad that I found this community as it's members have been great in helping me and providing guidance on my journey.


----------



## architect (Jan 14, 2021)

I don't know why the site keeps rotating my pictures but here is one of the engine stand for your reference.


----------

