# And now I have a mill!



## David_R8 (Feb 16, 2020)

So a thing happened today.
I bought the Long Chang LC-30A mill 
Here's some pics of the event.

The seller, Larry had a Toro walk-behind bobcat type loader. When I arrived he was in the middle of fabricating a platform to stand on behind the machine because it was a leeetle precarious.





We bolted the mill to a pair of 2x6s so that it couldn't tip forward.





I don't have a lift but I did have a plan 
In an attempt to lighten the load, I removed the motor and the countershaft assembly. I could then pick it up off the base and sit it on the box.





Shims under the column





And the column and head are on the ground. Honestly this was a bit terrifying. I lifted the column off the base and onto the truck bed. I positioned 2x6s so I could walk it down the ramp but it was really unbalanced toward the spindle end. I almost lost it at one point. Thankfully the column gave me lots of leverage.





I pulled my truck forward and wedged the 2x6s between the box and the edge of my garage floor pad. I had to raise the base high enough to clear the bolts that were coming up from the bottom of the 2x6s. Then I levered the base slowly onto the ramp.





And voila! On the floor of my garage.





I left the seller's house at 1:30, drove home about 25 mins, ate lunch, and had the mill all in my garage by 5:30. All in all it went far better than I expected. Maybe because I had thought about the unloading for about 24 hrs straight!


----------



## YYCHM (Feb 16, 2020)

What did it set you back, if you don't mind sharing?


----------



## CalgaryPT (Feb 16, 2020)

Good for you David.


----------



## David_R8 (Feb 16, 2020)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> What did it set you back, if you don't mind sharing?



I paid 1,000. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dusty (Feb 17, 2020)

Congratulations David, glad everything went safely which is a huge plus with moving heavy gear. Looking good keep the pictures coming.

Now for some TLC, careful assembly, leveling the beast, then checking out the operation. Enjoy your new toy and play safe my friend. 

Bill


----------



## Dabbler (Feb 17, 2020)

Congrats David!  It will be a great addition to your shop!  I'm happy it went well!


----------



## David_R8 (Feb 17, 2020)

Dabbler said:


> Congrats David! It will be a great addition to your shop! I'm happy it went well!



Thanks! I had visions of your gantry in my mind the whole time I was moving it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Brent H (Feb 17, 2020)

Oh boy!! Way to go!!  Now the fun of accessories!!  
You are going to have lots of fun now!!


----------



## Marc Moreau (Feb 17, 2020)

Nice machine and good job . Many factor to check first is Safety when manipulate heavy equipment you won't be able to retain if it fall off, most guy's will try to hold it if something go wrong the result will be injure so be safe. next put all the part's back together ,clean it ,and last get the best place to place it. Last enjoy.


----------



## historicalarms (Feb 17, 2020)

Now I am assuming you need to get er up on a bench or table of some height. I have lifted my mill all in one piece a few times. I am luck to have an engine hoist available all the time but it seems you don't, one can be rented from tool rental places for a few dollars a day and will make your life much easier. 

     To lift my mill (pretty much the same model as yours is), I run a chain down thru the column and loop the end around a common 1/2 drive extension at the bottom of the column. The mill will lift almost straight up and absolutely cannot "over-center"...a danger of any "underneath sling lifting " apparatus, the top of the thing always wants to tip out of its harness it seems. Lifting through the center with a suitable rated engine hoist just eliminates all the dangers...and you can do it yourself. My-ownself, I hate lifting stuff with "help around" unless absolutely nessesary...the less hands-fingers-feet targets around the better.


----------



## YotaBota (Feb 17, 2020)

Congrats - you'll know every nut and bolt in the machine once back together.
What Marc said - watch your back, I over stressed mine a few years ago and I hear about it every day.


----------



## David_R8 (Feb 17, 2020)

historicalarms said:


> Now I am assuming you need to get er up on a bench or table of some height. I have lifted my mill all in one piece a few times. I am luck to have an engine hoist available all the time but it seems you don't, one can be rented from tool rental places for a few dollars a day and will make your life much easier.
> 
> To lift my mill (pretty much the same model as yours is), I run a chain down thru the column and loop the end around a common 1/2 drive extension at the bottom of the column. The mill will lift almost straight up and absolutely cannot "over-center"...a danger of any "underneath sling lifting " apparatus, the top of the thing always wants to tip out of its harness it seems. Lifting through the center with a suitable rated engine hoist just eliminates all the dangers...and you can do it yourself. My-ownself, I hate lifting stuff with "help around" unless absolutely nessesary...the less hands-fingers-feet targets around the better.


Indeed, while it was relatively easy to get it off my truck, there's no way I can deadlift it even in pieces onto its bench. So I will have to rig up a hoist or rent one. Thanks for the tip on running a chain through the column, getting the colun and head off the truck was the most precarious because of how front heavy it was. I read Chris Sparber's piece on moving his mill and by his calculations the head and column weigh 195 lbs!


----------



## David_R8 (Feb 17, 2020)

YotaBota said:


> Congrats - you'll know every nut and bolt in the machine once back together.
> What Marc said - watch your back, I over stressed mine a few years ago and I hear about it every day.


Ouch! 
I was very conscious about lifting yesterday. I definitely don't want injury to hound me for years to come.


----------



## historicalarms (Feb 17, 2020)

I think "shipping weight" on the crate for my mill was 330 lbs.


----------



## Dabbler (Feb 17, 2020)

Now David will have to make a gantry crane!


----------



## David_R8 (Feb 17, 2020)

Dabbler said:


> Now David will have to make a gantry crane!


When I worked in the US I had a super slick gantry crane that was rated for 1200 lbs. and broke down into manageable bits. It was all aluminum so it didn't take two people to carry the components. I wish I had it now!


----------



## David_R8 (Feb 17, 2020)

historicalarms said:


> I think "shipping weight" on the crate for my mill was 330 lbs.


For an RF30 mill?


----------



## francist (Feb 17, 2020)

David_R8 said:


> I wish I had it now!



Probably wouldn't take that much to build one, a man of your versatility you know. Just some aluminum channel and a few bolts and doo-dads.... of course it would go faster if you had a little horizontal bandsaw to do all the cutting with.....


----------



## David_R8 (Feb 17, 2020)

Oh sure @francist, just when my bank account was sighing in relief!


----------



## francist (Feb 17, 2020)

Just looking out for your interests....


----------



## RobinHood (Feb 17, 2020)

Once “the monster“ gets a hold of you, there is no turning back....

Great score, btw.


----------



## David_R8 (Feb 17, 2020)

RobinHood said:


> Once “the monster“ gets a hold of you, there is no turning back....
> 
> Great score, btw.


Methinks that some members who shall go unnamed are getting a take from the monster ;D


----------



## Janger (Feb 17, 2020)

Nice mill. What accessories did you get? Vise? Tooling? Collets?


----------



## Dabbler (Feb 17, 2020)

Ever since I built mine, I've been tweaking it, so it isn't 'finished' yet, so no project description for public view!  But hopefully soon. Okay, may maybe the summer


----------



## trlvn (Feb 17, 2020)

What is the spindle taper?  R8 to go along with your handle?!?

Craig


----------



## Tom O (Feb 17, 2020)

If your in Calgary I have two engine hoists.


----------



## David_R8 (Feb 17, 2020)

@Janger 
Unfortunately no tooling to speak of as the seller only used it as a drill press. 
So I need a vise etc. 

@trlvn it has an MT3 taper so sadly it doesn’t match my handle 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## David_R8 (Feb 17, 2020)

Tom O said:


> If your in Calgary I have two engine hoists.



Rats! I’m on Vancouver Island otherwise I’d be all over that. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Brent H (Feb 17, 2020)

@David_R8 - will keep an eye out for tooling for you


----------



## David_R8 (Feb 17, 2020)

Thanks @Brent H, that would be great!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Janger (Feb 17, 2020)

historicalarms said:


> To lift my mill (pretty much the same model as yours is), I run a chain down thru the column and loop the end around a common 1/2 drive extension at the bottom of the column. The mill will lift almost straight up and absolutely cannot "over-center"...a danger of any "underneath sling lifting " apparatus, the top of the thing always wants to tip out of its harness it seems. Lifting through the center with a suitable rated engine hoist just eliminates all the dangers...and you can do it yourself. My-ownself, I hate lifting stuff with "help around" unless absolutely nessesary...the less hands-fingers-feet targets around the better.



That is a great idea! I think that might work with some of the bigger square column machines too.


----------



## David_R8 (Feb 17, 2020)

The mill came with this stand. 
The photo is from the back of the stand. 








Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dabbler (Feb 17, 2020)

nice stand!


----------



## David_R8 (Feb 17, 2020)

The stand alone probably weighs 40 pounds!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## YYCHM (Feb 17, 2020)

What is the motor rated at?
What are the table dimensions?
What is the table range of motion?
What is the spindle range of motion?

I'm trying to compare your find with what you get from BB for a K.  At 350# assembled that's something I could get into my basement.

Thanks,

Craig


----------



## David_R8 (Feb 17, 2020)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> What is the motor rated at?
> What are the table dimensions?
> What is the table range of motion?
> What is the spindle range of motion?



It’s a 1hp motor 110/220v
I know that there’s 6” of Y axis travel
I don’t know the x axis travel at the moment
There's just a bit over 5” of spindle travel



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## YYCHM (Feb 17, 2020)

So far.

2 1/2 X heavier
2 X more HP
2" more y travel
2" less spindle travel

A way stiffer column I would imagine.

What are the table dimensions?

That manual Dusty posted doesn't have any specs in it.


----------



## David_R8 (Feb 17, 2020)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> So far.
> 
> 2 1/2 X heavier
> 2 X more HP
> ...


It’s a seriously hefty machine, all in it weighs about 600 lbs. 
The column wall thickness is about  1/4” or so. 
What are you comparing it to?

The table is 9x27.75
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## YYCHM (Feb 17, 2020)

https://www.busybeetools.com/products/milling-machine-mini-craftex-csa-cx605.html

Time to find me a bigger mill.  Yours looks doable and is probably 5 times or more the machine I have now.  Every time I see a Bridgeport I think.... Nope... ain't gonna get that into the basement and I really don't have the room anyways.


----------



## David_R8 (Feb 17, 2020)

I completely understand where you’re at @YYCHobbyMachinist as that’s where I was too. 

I wanted to get the most machine for less than $2000. A King KC-20VS is $1999 at KMS, a new RF30 clone is about $2300. 

I looked at an RF40 but the seller was asking more than I was willing to pay. And it wasn’t as nice as what I bought. 

I haven’t even plugged it in yet but I did see it running at the seller’s shop and I was impressed by its mass and stability. 

I can’t offer an objective opinion but I read a lot about them to understand their advantages and peculiarities. 

The basic advice I got was to get the biggest, heaviest mill I could afford or accommodate. 

Where I live there are basically no Bridgeport’s to be found or any one that is available is priced way out of my range. 

I have a bunch of elbow grease to get this machine cleaned up but I expect it will do what I need for a long time. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## historicalarms (Feb 18, 2020)

David_R8 said:


> For an RF30 mill?


  I think mine is a model 35. The only difference that I can remember seeing at the store between the two models when I bought mine was that the column on the 35 was a bit heavier & rigid. The head & base/table were identical.  Not more than a few lbs difference that I could see.


----------



## historicalarms (Feb 18, 2020)

Craig I have used my mii-drill for many hours and quite frankly if I had to make a choice between keeping my lathe or my mill, the mill would win hands down...but there are a couple draw backs to a solid head mill-drill that most gear driven heads beat hands down.

    The first being the belt driven thing. It is a royal pain having to climb up a ladder and loosen everything and then pry them back tight again to change belt speeds every time you change a cutter or the metal you are going to work on.  On  gear-head...change speeds in 30 seconds...on a belt machine, 30 minutes by the time you find all the whenches & proper pry bars to do the job so to speak.

    The second drawback is that the heads don't swivel 90 deg right or left, you only have vertical movement of the quill. Many's the time I have wished for the ability to turn the head to a usable angle.  I do notice that the newer variable speed mill-drills with the angle option do have a very short quill movement (2.something " to 5.5 " for mine) compared to mine but I think I could live with that as I could angle the head and then use the table travel if a deeper cut/hole was required than the short quill would do.


----------



## YYCHM (Feb 18, 2020)

historicalarms said:


> I think "shipping weight" on the crate for my mill was 330 lbs.



You sure it wasn't 330 kg?  Where did you find these at a store?


----------



## Tom Kitta (Feb 18, 2020)

I may have some tapered end mills you may want. Otherwise I suggest you get rather cheap MT3 to ER32 adapter - I have one for the mill. It will eat about 2" of Z but otherwise works great. 

For a $1000 if all works on it you got a good deal. The 1hp motor may be small by today's standards but I would be surprised if you could overpower it in that small mill - older BP machines had tiny 1hp motors.


----------



## Hruul (Feb 18, 2020)

Congrats David,  As I was looking at the pictures, I was thinking to myself, man this looks familiar.  That was when I realized you posted this to one of the machining groups on facebook that I am in.  Hope to get a similar mill at some point.  Lots of videos on these mills and add-ons to them.


----------



## David_R8 (Feb 18, 2020)

Tom Kitta said:


> I may have some tapered end mills you may want. Otherwise I suggest you get rather cheap MT3 to ER32 adapter - I have one for the mill. It will eat about 2" of Z but otherwise works great.
> 
> For a $1000 if all works on it you got a good deal. The 1hp motor may be small by today's standards but I would be surprised if you could overpower it in that small mill - older BP machines had tiny 1hp motors.


Thanks @Tom Kitta, I might take you up on that. I'm trying to sort out tooling needs now...


----------



## David_R8 (Feb 18, 2020)

Hruul said:


> Congrats David,  As I was looking at the pictures, I was thinking to myself, man this looks familiar.  That was when I realized you posted this to one of the machining groups on facebook that I am in.  Hope to get a similar mill at some point.  Lots of videos on these mills and add-ons to them.


The amount of support for these mills was actually a factor in my purchasing decision.
Funny how worlds collide 
Was it the Benchtop group?


----------



## Hruul (Feb 18, 2020)

Had to go back and check, but yup that was the one.


----------



## historicalarms (Feb 19, 2020)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> You sure it wasn't 330 kg?  Where did you find these at a store?



  It may very well have been in KG's Craig. it was at least 20 yrs ago LOL. and they were always on display at the now long defunct House Of Tools both Ed. and Cal.


----------



## YotaBota (Mar 4, 2020)

Are you making chips yet?


----------



## David_R8 (Mar 5, 2020)

YotaBota said:


> Are you making chips yet?



Sure am. 
Just fooling around here. 








Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## trlvn (Mar 5, 2020)

Is this using the MT3 collets?

Craig


----------



## David_R8 (Mar 5, 2020)

trlvn said:


> Is this using the MT3 collets?
> 
> Craig



No, ER-32 collet chuck. I need to make a spindle wrench to use the MT3 collets. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## YotaBota (Mar 5, 2020)

I'm doing the same, just playin around. My first project is going to be building a sharpener jig for end mills cause I know I'm going to need it.
http://www.homews.co.uk/page121.html
I bought a Harold Hall book "The Milling Machine" and it showed the sharpening jig and he has a bunch of goodies on the web site. The book is best for someone who can't spell "milling machine", it shows a lot of setups and describes what the machine is and what it can do. I think it will be good for reference.


----------



## David_R8 (Mar 5, 2020)

YotaBota said:


> I'm doing the same, just playin around. My first project is going to be building a sharpener jig for end mills cause I know I'm going to need it.
> http://www.homews.co.uk/page121.html
> I bought a Harold Hall book "The Milling Machine" and it showed the sharpening jig and he has a bunch of goodies on the web site. The book is best for someone who can't spell "milling machine", it shows a lot of setups and describes what the machine is and what it can do. I think it will be good for reference.


Thanks for the link, I didn't know that Harold Hall had a website. I might pick up that book.


----------



## kevin.decelles (Mar 5, 2020)

I have most of his books and I’m starting on his advanced grinder rest project

We should start an “ode to Harold hall” Thread



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## YYCHM (Apr 12, 2020)

Hey David,

Could you please post an image of the entire machine as it sits on it's stand so that I can get a feel for it's size.
Maybe put a yard stick in the image if you have one.

Thanks,

Craig


----------



## Everett (Apr 12, 2020)

Nice!  No one got hurt and no damaged components, that's a win for sure.  When I got my shaper I just borrowed a folding engine crane from my buddy's shop (ironically, I now work for that buddy a year later) and he was happy for just doughnuts in return.  Depending on your connections, like a your local mechanic's shop, you might be able to horse trade some doughnuts and coffee for use of the crane for a day if they're not in the middle of an engine job.  I agree with the others though, not worth wrecking one's back for stuff like this.  We have hydraulics and leverage for a reason, lol!
You're going to have a lot of fun with that machine, have you got much tooling put together for it yet?


----------



## David_R8 (Apr 12, 2020)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> Hey David,
> 
> Could you please post an image of the entire machine as it sits on it's stand so that I can get a feel for it's size.
> Maybe put a yard stick in the image if you have one.
> ...


Does this mean you bought that mill???

I’m standing in the line at Home Depot so here’s a teaser. 






With the head raised to the top and the cover installed it would be about 7 feet tall. 

This manual says it’s 43.5” tall. That sounds about right to me. 

http://blog.penntoolco.com/munics_files/webshare/RF-30-manual.pdf

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Janger (Apr 12, 2020)

I've had good success with MZG carbide cutters on ali express.


----------

