# You guys are a bad influence



## Chicken lights (Oct 25, 2019)

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-power-tool/city-of-toronto/pending-south-bend-9-metal-lathe/1464719138

Trying to arrange pickup on Sunday.

I sent a deposit, sight unseen. @trlvn said I should be able to part it out if I get it home and recoup my money, if nothing else. If it turns out to be junk, that is 

This went from “oh it’s at a storage unit” to “it’s on the second floor, but there’s an elevator” to “yes, you should probably bring a moving cart and a ramp”....

So, I think I’ll grab the little trailer, a moving dolly, a fridge  cart, some plywood, tools, pry bars and maybe double check there’s still a chain in the little truck. 

What can go wrong?


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## YYCHM (Oct 25, 2019)

LOL..... another covert lathe operation!!!  Gotta send pics on this one.   The Kijiji link just hangs when I try to view it.

Craig


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## Chicken lights (Oct 25, 2019)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> LOL..... another covert lathe operation!!!  Gotta send pics on this one.   The Kijiji link just hangs when I try to view it.
> 
> Craig












Lathe quest, number two


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## YYCHM (Oct 25, 2019)

Mother of mercy, that's quite the gear train!!!  I don't see a motor, steady rest, tail stock or chuck?


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## Chicken lights (Oct 25, 2019)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> Mother of mercy, that's quite the gear train!!!  I don't see a motor, steady rest or tail stock?






It comes with three chucks, a bunch of parts, and apparently everything is there to mount the motor

But no motor.

There’s a sucker born every minute, but hey, $400 isn’t THAT much money


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## YYCHM (Oct 25, 2019)

Vises?  Do you mean chucks?  Three?

Got 220 3 phase in your shop?  The Utilathe motor is available and Brent has some other motors to part with.


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## Chicken lights (Oct 25, 2019)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> Vises?  Do you mean chucks?  Three?
> 
> Got 220 3 phase in your shop?  The Utilathe motor is available and Brent has some other motors to part with.


Chucks, yes chucks what was I thinking. Yes, three chucks

No, I don’t have three phase, I figured the motor was easy, as long as the seller is right all the pieces are there


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## YYCHM (Oct 25, 2019)

If it turns by hand ok, you're probably good to go.  Just needs to be cleaned up.  Did you snag the table as well?

So we are talking 9" swing by what?

I'm thinking you did really well.

Jeepers, how come we can't find this kind of stuff in Alberta!!!!


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## Chicken lights (Oct 25, 2019)

I have no idea at this point. I’m like an old woman (Jesus I hope that’s ok to still say) 

I was kind of on the lookout for a small lathe, my main machinist kind of talked me out of it, @trlvn found a couple cheap ones I turned down, then @Brent H showed me what his small lathe could do, so when I was sitting waiting to get loaded this week I was browsing kijiji and here we are

I blame @trlvn and @Brent H for this


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## YYCHM (Oct 25, 2019)

Does it have a model number on it?


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## Chicken lights (Oct 25, 2019)

I don’t know if you can read that or not?


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## YYCHM (Oct 25, 2019)

Nope, can't read it.  Just measure from the spindle nose to the end of the bed, that will give us a pretty good indication.  What do you figure it weighed?


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## Janger (Oct 25, 2019)

Uh huh. And so it begins.


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## Chicken lights (Oct 25, 2019)

The seller figures it’s about 250 pounds 

The internet’s says fully dressed it’s about 350 pounds at its working weight


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## Chicken lights (Oct 25, 2019)

Janger said:


> Uh huh. And so it begins.


Notice the title of the thread?


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## YYCHM (Oct 25, 2019)

Chicken lights said:


> The seller figures it’s about 250 pounds
> 
> The internet’s says fully dressed it’s about 350 pounds at its working weight



The internet says it's 350# for what?  What size lathe is it?

My 9" X 22" weighs in at 400# or there abouts.


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## trlvn (Oct 25, 2019)

Chicken lights said:


> ... I was kind of on the lookout for a small lathe, my main machinist kind of talked me out of it, @trlvn found a couple cheap ones I turned down, then @Brent H showed me what his small lathe could do, so when I was sitting waiting to get loaded this week I was browsing kijiji and here we are
> 
> I blame @trlvn and @Brent H for this


It's a slippery slope...and we're happy to drag others in whenever we can!

It is really hard from Kijiji pictures to say whether this lathe is a gem or dog or somewhere in between.  Hopefully it isn't totally sway-backed; the gear teeth are all where they should be, etc. But with 3 chucks, change gears, etc, I think you could recoup your money by selling parts if the worst came to the worst.  Hopefully it just needs a little TLC to be put back into service.

Craig


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## Brent H (Oct 25, 2019)

Hey Dave - Lathes are fun - don’t be blaming - hahaha I will send you a motor - 1/2 hp ok?  I think I have a 3/4  as well  - reversable.  Let me know what you need - pulleys etc


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## Tom O (Oct 26, 2019)

Chicken lights said:


> https://www.kijiji.ca/v-power-tool/city-of-toronto/pending-south-bend-9-metal-lathe/1464719138
> 
> Trying to arrange pickup on Sunday.
> 
> ...



You just need two pieces of 2x4’s with casters on each end then screw the lathe to them it works a treat.


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## Johnwa (Oct 26, 2019)

When I first got my Southbend, without the motor and tailstock I managed to lift it onto a bench.  I wouldn’t do that again though.

It looks  like a 9” model C.  No gear box and no power crossfeed.


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## Brent H (Oct 26, 2019)

Hey Dave - that lathe would probably fit on the stand that came with the 9” utilathe.  Maybe YYC wouldn’t mind donating to the lathe cause - i have a 3/4 horse power or maybe its a 1 that came with my reno’d 10” Utilathe that has reversing and is 240/110 if wanted one stop shopping?


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## Chicken lights (Oct 26, 2019)

Brent H said:


> Hey Dave - that lathe would probably fit on the stand that came with the 9” utilathe.  Maybe YYC wouldn’t mind donating to the lathe cause - i have a 3/4 horse power or maybe its a 1 that came with my reno’d 10” Utilathe that has reversing and is 240/110 if wanted one stop shopping?


That did cross my mind, about the stand. 
Do you know what size motor should be on here, or does it matter that much? 
Let me see if we can get it home, and see what shape she is in. 
I appreciate the kind offer, we’ll see how tomorrow goes


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## Brent H (Oct 26, 2019)

Hi Dave,

check this http://www.vintagemachinery.org/pubs/1617/22090.pdf

the information there suggests that a 1/4 Hp would be the size required.  This is a 1/4 Hp in 1935.  I would think 1/2 Hp in todays motors would be fine - maybe 1/3 Hp


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## Brent H (Oct 26, 2019)

Further down in the reading it suggests the lathe is good for up to 1/2 Hp when you will be machining heavier loads.


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## YYCHM (Oct 26, 2019)

Brent H said:


> Hey Dave - that lathe would probably fit on the stand that came with the 9” utilathe.  Maybe YYC wouldn’t mind donating to the lathe cause



Donate away,  David can have it if he can use it.  You said it was a pretty solid unit.   The motor as well, but I don't think he has 220 available.


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## Johnwa (Oct 26, 2019)

I have a 1/2 hp on mine. I run the flat belt tension so it will slip before the motor will stall.


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## YYCHM (Oct 26, 2019)

Johnwa said:


> I have a 1/2 hp on mine. I run the flat belt tension so it will slip before the motor will stall.



Which lathe was that one?  Seems to me you had three crammed into your garage when I visited LOL.  I didn't think all three were running though.


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## Johnwa (Oct 26, 2019)

It’s on my Southbend 9” model A.
only two of them are running, although my Standard Modern could use a few parts replaced.


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## YYCHM (Oct 26, 2019)

Johnwa said:


> It’s on my Southbend 9” model A.
> only two of them are running, although my Standard Modern could use a few parts replaced.



Which SM parts are you in need of?


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## Brent H (Oct 27, 2019)

Johnwa is in need if a 14Dp  16 tooth gear, the gears in the 9 inch Utilathe are all 16Dp so far.  
I might find one in the apron or head stock when those come apart next month.


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## trlvn (Oct 27, 2019)

Brent H said:


> Hi Dave,
> 
> check this http://www.vintagemachinery.org/pubs/1617/22090.pdf
> 
> the information there suggests that a 1/4 Hp would be the size required.  This is a 1/4 Hp in 1935.  I would think 1/2 Hp in todays motors would be fine - maybe 1/3 Hp


@Chicken lights There is a boatload of South Bend publications on the Vintage Machinery site:

http://www.vintagemachinery.org/mfgIndex/detail.aspx?id=1617&tab=3

In addition to the one Brent linked to, there are documents on installing and levelling the lathe, oiling and lubrication, and even a US Army technical manual which may include a relevant parts list.

BTW, we're assuming the seller has correctly identified the machine as a South Bend.  There were a lot of SB clones over the years, however.  Kijiji sellers are, to put it mildly, not always well informed!

Craig


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## Chicken lights (Oct 27, 2019)

The little trailer is ex-DND Canadian. I have no idea what “with disposal kit explosive devices” means....


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## Johnwa (Oct 27, 2019)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> Which SM parts are you in need of?



Besides the gear that Brent mentions I also want to replace the eccentric studs in the D1-4 mount. Grizzly tools carry them but are out of stock. For some reason they won’t ship these to Canada and aren’t scheduled to get any before we’re headed back home.[emoji3525]


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## Chicken lights (Oct 27, 2019)




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## Chicken lights (Oct 27, 2019)

I have more questions than I know where to start. 

Thanks again @trlvn for the help loading this!!


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## Chicken lights (Oct 27, 2019)

Brent H said:


> Hi Dave,
> 
> check this http://www.vintagemachinery.org/pubs/1617/22090.pdf
> 
> the information there suggests that a 1/4 Hp would be the size required.  This is a 1/4 Hp in 1935.  I would think 1/2 Hp in todays motors would be fine - maybe 1/3 Hp







It came with a motor! I’m slightly skeptical about wiring a plug on there

Ok. Where’s the “ON” switch?


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## Brent H (Oct 27, 2019)

Oh man Dave, that looks like a fun project!!
It says it has a 3-1/2 foot bed.  I think the stand here will fit it perfectly!   Here is a rough sketch.  The attachment points for the lathe base are just welded on nuts and can easily be placed where your lathe feet will line up.


You would need to make a pan for under the lathe - not too difficult


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## Chicken lights (Oct 27, 2019)

Brent H said:


> Oh man Dave, that looks like a fun project!!
> It says it has a 3-1/2 foot bed.  I think the stand here will fit it perfectly!   Here is a rough sketch.  The attachment points for the lathe base are just welded on nuts and can easily be placed where your lathe feet will line up.
> 
> 
> ...












Middle of one foot to the centre of the second foot is 33.5”
Edge of the plywood to 44” is shown, so that stand is long enough
The plywood is 24” wide, I’m not 100% sure that’s how it goes together but it’s gotta be close 
The pan could be made wider to mount the counterdrive too 

The motor just smokes, doesn’t matter which way it’s wired up


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## Johnwa (Oct 27, 2019)

if I remember, the motor to countershaft belt is supposed to be a 5L v belt.  SB used a unique v to flat pulley drive.  You can move the belt without having to loosen the motor mounts.


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## Brent H (Oct 27, 2019)

The stand will fit great.  Distance between the bolt centres is 32-3/4” - only 3/4” off.  
You know the weight of the stand so it will hold a lot.  Should be easy to extend a base pan and add some stiffeners to support the drive.  That sucks motor is smoking but looks like it has a regular base mount.  Should be able to replace with a 1/2 HP.  
You can probably reduce the length of the flat belt as well to make things more compact.  

did you find a model number ?


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## Chicken lights (Oct 27, 2019)

You mean it didn’t come with a Honda timing belt from the factory? 

I didn’t see a model number or serial number on it anywhere. 

It’s a 1/4 hp motor now, I’m sure a 1/2 hp would be perfect 

If you went to a shorter belt you’d have to change the adjustment arm as well, or do something different there anyway


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## Johnwa (Oct 27, 2019)

With the right belt you just slip it off the flat pulley, put it in the v you want and then slip it back on the flats easy peasy!

The serial number of the lathe is on the top of the bed, right end, about where you have the tailstock sitting.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## trlvn (Oct 27, 2019)

I didn't get a chance to look at wear on the bed.  Any obvious signs?  Also the feed screw--near the headstock and tailstock.  The acme threads will appear thinner if they're worn.

That's an open motor right?  Might just have debris inside.  Does it turn freely when the belt is off?  They are generally pretty easy to take apart.  Keep an eye out for shim washers if you do.  

You got a great haul of parts and accessories but I'm not seeing too many cutters.  Are there HSS cutter bits in the two tool holders?  I have 3 lifetimes supply here--I should have thought to bring some along.  Your lathe would be hard-pressed to work with carbide tooling.  I don't think the RPM's go high enough and borderline rigidity.

Darn cool!  With a bit of cleaning and fresh oil she'll look worlds better.

Craig
PS  I got an awesome deal on a 6 inch milling vise from this same seller!


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## Chicken lights (Oct 27, 2019)

Johnwa said:


> With the right belt you just slip it off the flat pulley, put it in the v you want and then slip it back on the flats easy peasy!
> 
> The serial number of the lathe is on the top of the bed, right end, about where you have the tailstock sitting.
> 
> ...






Well that would be why I didn’t see them, thanks!


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## Johnwa (Oct 27, 2019)

Here’s a link to a manual.  It’s for the 10” gearbox version.  It includes a drawing showing where to drill all the mounting holes.  Double check them because they didn’t work for me.
http://www.wswells.com/data/9_workshop/CL670Z_army.pdf

somewhere on the web there’s a spreadsheet that cross references serial numbers and manufacturing dates.
Alternatively, Grizzly bought SB when it closed down.  They will sell you the card for your lathe.


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## trlvn (Oct 27, 2019)

Wow, see this page:

http://www.wswells.com/sn/sn_db.html

70677 may date to 1936!  

Craig


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## Chicken lights (Oct 27, 2019)

trlvn said:


> I didn't get a chance to look at wear on the bed.  Any obvious signs?  Also the feed screw--near the headstock and tailstock.  The acme threads will appear thinner if they're worn.
> 
> That's an open motor right?  Might just have debris inside.  Does it turn freely when the belt is off?  They are generally pretty easy to take apart.  Keep an eye out for shim washers if you do.
> 
> ...


Everything spins freely, motor, pulleys, lathe, gears. I didn’t see any obvious missing teeth or signs of abuse. The only thing that’s hard to turn is the wheel to go left to right. 

I’m impressed with how complete it is, I thought for sure it’d be missing parts. 

No, I only saw a couple cutters, and both tool holders have had a hard life. 

Any idea what oil this thing takes?


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## trlvn (Oct 27, 2019)

Chicken lights said:


> Everything spins freely, motor, pulleys, lathe, gears. I didn’t see any obvious missing teeth or signs of abuse. The only thing that’s hard to turn is the wheel to go left to right.
> 
> I’m impressed with how complete it is, I thought for sure it’d be missing parts.
> 
> ...


Re tool holding, you'll have to decide which way you want to go.  Quick change tool holding system, 4-way tool post or stick with the lantern style.  QCTP is the most convenient and the most costly.  Might depend on whether you see yourself using this machine for a long time or if you'll flip it for a bigger machine in a year or two.

Re lubrication, there are about 4 different publications on the Vintage Machinery site:

http://www.vintagemachinery.org/mfgIndex/detail.aspx?id=1617&tab=3

The lubrication chart has nice diagrams showing each of the lube points and the recommended servicing frequency.

http://www.vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=4574

Note that these old machines want non-detergent oil.  Engine oil for your truck really isn't the right thing!  There is an online site in the US that has a good summary of the currently-available oils that match up well with what South Bend originally recommended:

http://bluechipmachineshop.com/bc_blog/product/sbl-a-b-and-c-oils/

I'm not saying you have to buy from them; just that they have a nice single page summary.  I know that KBC in Canada has way oil available in the recommended weight.  I'm using ISO 32 compressor oil (from Canadian Tire) for my spindle oil.  I think they may also have ISO 68.

OTOH, any oil is better than none.  If you have some light machine oil in a pump can, it won't hurt to squirt some on right now.  Then switch to the "right" stuff when you can get it.

Craig


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## Chicken lights (Oct 27, 2019)

trlvn said:


> Re tool holding, you'll have to decide which way you want to go.  Quick change tool holding system, 4-way tool post or stick with the lantern style.  QCTP is the most convenient and the most costly.  Might depend on whether you see yourself using this machine for a long time or if you'll flip it for a bigger machine in a year or two.
> 
> Re lubrication, there are about 4 different publications on the Vintage Machinery site:
> 
> ...






There’s three holes in the tailstock, the third ones kind of hidden closer to the wheel. I’m guessing, as an example, all three need to be oiled? 

There are oil points with little flip caps in other areas, I’m guessing those need more frequent oiling? 

I didn’t see any drain plugs or fill plugs near the headstock, so I’m not sure if there is really a headstock oil to change and refill the oil


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## Johnwa (Oct 27, 2019)

The headstock needs oil every time the lathe is used. There is no reservoir or seals so the oil leaks out fairly quickly.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## YYCHM (Oct 27, 2019)

9 X 42  Nice snag!!!!!  I wish I had the room for that much lathe.

Please Please Please tell me you didn't hoist it using it's drive belts as slings!


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## Chicken lights (Oct 27, 2019)

Johnwa said:


> The headstock needs oil every time the lathe is used. There is no reservoir or seals so the oil leaks out fairly quickly.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Any recommendations on oil?


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## Chicken lights (Oct 27, 2019)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> 9 X 42  Nice snag!!!!!  I wish I had the room for that much lathe.
> 
> Please Please Please tell me you didn't hoist it using it's drive belts as slings!


Why would using the drive belts as slings be a bad thing?
I doubt they’re the correct ones and are probably one of the first things I should replace 

Well, motor, base, belts, tooling..... there’s a short list of things to don


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## Brent H (Oct 27, 2019)

Hahahahaha!

true that Dave!!!  
I am leaving in a couple days. If you want the stand I can arrange it with my son to help you load it up.

the motor that came with my lathe should suit you well - change the bearings.  This is the motor:


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## Brent H (Oct 27, 2019)

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-tool-other/...p_ios&utm_medium=social&utm_source=ios_social


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## YYCHM (Oct 27, 2019)

Well.... If a professional trucker and a ships chief engineer both agree using drive belts as slings is A-OK, who am I to argue.  Just seems a little risky to me and if those belts didn't need replacing before they probably do now LOL.

Beyond the getting off the ground stuff, like a motor, belts, bench, and tooling etc  Lathes spawn other things like bench grinders (got to keep your tools sharp), bandsaws (hacksawing 2" RS gets stale real fast), drill presses (stuff you can't drill on the lathe), dial indicators, faceplates, lathe dogs, live centers, clamping kits.... *MILL* and the list goes on.

You're on a slippery slope my friend.  Welcome to the fold.

Craig


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## Hruul (Oct 27, 2019)

Congrats on the "new to you" lathe.  Hope it works well for you.


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## Johnwa (Oct 27, 2019)

The RIGHT oils or the oils I use?
I use automatic tranny fluid for the spindle and a 30 weight non detergent from Canada Tire every where else.
Most people are now using serpentine belts between the flat pulleys.  You have to disassemble the headstock to get them on, but they run quite and will last a lifetime.

I’d look for a 4 way or quick change toolpost.  The rocker style aren’t very stiff.


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## RobinHood (Oct 27, 2019)

Johnwa said:


> Besides the gear that Brent mentions I also want to replace the eccentric studs in the D1-4 mount. Grizzly tools carry them but are out of stock. For some reason they won’t ship these to Canada and aren’t scheduled to get any before we’re headed back home.[emoji3525]
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


MSC show them in their selection:
https://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tn/?searchterm=Camlock+studs&hdrsrh=true
They might be able to help you out


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## Johnwa (Oct 27, 2019)

Rudy
I need the eccentric that locks those pins.
https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/56451388
$38 a piece at MSC.

Grizzly has them for $7 each, 


John


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## trlvn (Oct 28, 2019)

Chicken lights said:


> View attachment 6310
> There’s three holes in the tailstock, the third ones kind of hidden closer to the wheel. I’m guessing, as an example, all three need to be oiled?
> 
> There are oil points with little flip caps in other areas, I’m guessing those need more frequent oiling?
> ...


In your picture, the hole at the bottom appears to be the oil hole for the tailstock ram.  Check one of the parts lists though.  I'm surprised there isn't a Gits oiler to prevent debris getting in there.

On the upper right, the lock for the tailstock will only need a drop of oil very infrequently.

On the upper left, that hole is from when there was no such thing as a ball-bearing live centre!  Old timers filled that with white lead or some other grease and there was a little dauber that fit in to cover the hole.  A little grease would be applied to the dead centre before engaging it with the work.  I don't think I saw a ball-bearing live centre in your pile of goodies so that is something else that you'll want sooner or later.

Craig


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## RobinHood (Oct 28, 2019)

Johnwa said:


> Rudy
> I need the eccentric that locks those pins.
> https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/56451388
> $38 a piece at MSC.
> ...


Sorry John, misread your post...

Huge difference in price between Grizzly and MSC, wow. When Grizzly has them back in stock, PM me and we can work something out as far as getting them for you.


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## Tom Kitta (Oct 28, 2019)

You can place a single phase 1hp or 1.5hp motor on her for next to nothing. For 3ph motors are almost free in that size range used. Expect to pay around $10 CAD for 3ph. 

You can go with a smaller motor but I don't see a problem with just putting something bigger on her - are you worried about damaging gears under heavier load? I would expect the belt to slip first unless you make it tight.


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## Chicken lights (Oct 28, 2019)

Brent H said:


> Hahahahaha!
> 
> true that Dave!!!
> I am leaving in a couple days. If you want the stand I can arrange it with my son to help you load it up.
> ...


I’ll be in touch about the base and motor, as always, thanks for the kind offer. Maybe I’ll have time to slip up there before winter sets in


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## Chicken lights (Oct 28, 2019)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> Well.... If a professional trucker and a ships chief engineer both agree using drive belts as slings is A-OK, who am I to argue.  Just seems a little risky to me and if those belts didn't need replacing before they probably do now LOL.
> 
> Beyond the getting off the ground stuff, like a motor, belts, bench, and tooling etc  Lathes spawn other things like bench grinders (got to keep your tools sharp), bandsaws (hacksawing 2" RS gets stale real fast), drill presses (stuff you can't drill on the lathe), dial indicators, faceplates, lathe dogs, live centers, clamping kits.... *MILL* and the list goes on.
> 
> ...


I’m slightly confused why my dial indicator is wonky. It’s a Snap On base with a Fowler head. But the Fowler head doesn’t tighten down well on the Snap on arm

The annoying part is I ordered the head from Snap On, as my base was missing the head in the case when I got it. I assumed they would’ve ordered me a Snap On head


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## Chicken lights (Oct 28, 2019)

Johnwa said:


> The RIGHT oils or the oils I use?
> I use automatic tranny fluid for the spindle and a 30 weight non detergent from Canada Tire every where else.
> Most people are now using serpentine belts between the flat pulleys.  You have to disassemble the headstock to get them on, but they run quite and will last a lifetime.
> 
> I’d look for a 4 way or quick change toolpost.  The rocker style aren’t very stiff.


Alright, I’ll see if I can get some non-detergent oil ordered in


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## Chicken lights (Oct 28, 2019)

trlvn said:


> In your picture, the hole at the bottom appears to be the oil hole for the tailstock ram.  Check one of the parts lists though.  I'm surprised there isn't a Gits oiler to prevent debris getting in there.
> 
> On the upper right, the lock for the tailstock will only need a drop of oil very infrequently.
> 
> ...







I’m confused by the ball bearing live centre being tapered, but the drill chuck is not. It’s a Jacobs #2 chuck

Are one or both incorrect to use in the tailstock?


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## Johnwa (Oct 28, 2019)

They both look to be #2 MT and will work in the tailstock.


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## Tom Kitta (Oct 28, 2019)

It seems it is normal for live centers not to have the drive tongues. It sometimes makes it difficult to take them out.


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## Johnwa (Oct 28, 2019)

RobinHood said:


> Sorry John, misread your post...
> 
> Huge difference in price between Grizzly and MSC, wow. When Grizzly has them back in stock, PM me and we can work something out as far as getting them for you.



will do.

thanks
John


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## trlvn (Oct 28, 2019)

There is an immense amount of information on South Bend lathes at the following site:

http://www.wswells.com

From that site, there is a detailed brochure on what I believe is your model:

*Pdf*

Tonnes of information of the various configurations and accessories that were available.  

Craig


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## trlvn (Oct 28, 2019)

Chicken lights said:


> View attachment 6297
> 
> It came with a motor! I’m slightly skeptical about wiring a plug on there
> 
> Ok. Where’s the “ON” switch?



I'd recommend getting a switch with an emergency stop paddle:







Busy Bee sells them for less than $20:

https://www.busybeetools.com/products/switch-large-stop-button-2hp-cul.html

A standard light switch isn't designed for use with a motor.  When a motor starts up, it draws well over the rated amps until it comes up to speed.  Cheap light switches may eventually weld themselves closed--in the ON position!

Craig


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## Tom Kitta (Oct 28, 2019)

trlvn said:


> I'd recommend getting a switch with an emergency stop paddle:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You can get them cheaper from Amazon or Aliexpress. $20 is a lot for a switch. For around $30 you can get actual motor starter from China for 2hp that has protected relay and magnetic switch!


----------



## trlvn (Oct 28, 2019)

Tom Kitta said:


> You can get them cheaper from Amazon or Aliexpress. $20 is a lot for a switch. For around $30 you can get actual motor starter from China for 2hp that has protected relay and magnetic switch!


Links, please?


----------



## Chicken lights (Oct 28, 2019)

I noticed one of the chucks was smaller than the other two, where it would thread on the lathe. 

Without an adapter the small one is worthless to me? 

Man, there’s some SMART people on here, and HELPFUL!


----------



## trlvn (Oct 28, 2019)

The small one is a 3-jaw chuck, right?  And you have another larger 3-jaw?  You don't have the outside jaws for either, do you?

Probably you just want to sell the non-fitting one.  My experience was that if you spend a little time and clean it up, somebody will jump on it.  Personally I would not buy a used 3-jaw.  Over time, the jaws will distort a little bit--usually into a 'bell mouth' shape.  Then you can't count on them to hold a part coaxial with the spindle rotation.  On YouTube, lots of people try to grind the jaws true again but it is just as easy to make things worse as better!

If you really want the small one, you may be able to fit a new backing plate to it so that it fits your lathe.  You can either machine the plate from a raw round slug or buy a piece that already has the mounting threads machined.  The following chart suggests 10 inch South Bend lathes have a spindle threaded 2-1/4"-8 tpi:

https://littlemachineshop.com/info/spindles.php

What does your 9 inch have?

Craig


----------



## Johnwa (Oct 28, 2019)

The 9” SBs spindles have 1 ½ x 8 threads


----------



## YYCHM (Oct 28, 2019)

trlvn said:


> I'd recommend getting a switch with an emergency stop paddle:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This is something I should install on my machine as well.  Thanks for reminding me.

What's the distance between centers on Dave's machine 22", 24"?  3.5' bed must refer to the entire bed length.


----------



## Brent H (Nov 1, 2019)

Hey Dave, 

Here are some links to some youtube videos that may give you some information you can use - even seeing a lathe like yours all restored can be helpful.


























https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oz9pZfGE-U0

so much more info - hope things are going well for you!!  the stand and the lathe bed for the Utilathe are now outside my shop (lack of space and my wife deserves the garage for her car -LOL) - Should not affect the stand much at all.


----------



## Chicken lights (Nov 11, 2019)

Brent H said:


> Hey Dave,
> 
> Here are some links to some youtube videos that may give you some information you can use - even seeing a lathe like yours all restored can be helpful.
> 
> ...


I’d say she deserves the space to park as well haha 

I’ll watch the videos when I have some time, thanks!


----------



## YYCHM (Nov 13, 2019)

Hey David,

Where are you at with regard to getting her up and running?

Craig


----------



## Chicken lights (Nov 14, 2019)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> Hey David,
> 
> Where are you at with regard to getting her up and running?
> 
> Craig


I need to figure out a power supply, switch, and motor, as well as a base or chip tray so the belts could be adjusted. Also finding the proper belts 

Basically, nowhere close to even turning the lathe on


----------



## Brent H (Nov 14, 2019)

How wide would you think the chip tray would need to be?   I have a motor for you and the base - we can add a chip tray easy and slap on a few support welds for a motor mount.  - might not be until the new year though- LOL.


----------



## Chicken lights (Nov 14, 2019)

Brent H said:


> How wide would you think the chip tray would need to be?   I have a motor for you and the base - we can add a chip tray easy and slap on a few support welds for a motor mount.  - might not be until the new year though- LOL.


I think I measured the plywood it’s on at 24”? Although we could shorten up the adjuster to narrow it up 
It’s hard to tell which one of us is home less than the other guy, I’m just getting back from a Texas run, I haven’t seen the shop in two weeks lol 
Sounds like I should throw the whole mess in the truck and book a hotel room for a couple days in the new year


----------



## Brent H (Nov 14, 2019)

Hahaha!  I am sure we can set a build project up!   Maybe a couple other folks for a meet up/ lathe intervention convention!

i will ask my buddy if he has any sheet stainless that would be 24” or better wide - you may end up with the prettiest chip tray on the planet!!


----------



## YYCHM (Nov 14, 2019)

Brent H said:


> you may end up with the prettiest chip tray on the planet!!



Ha, It'll be so shiny he'll need to wear sunglasses to do any turning LOL.


----------



## Brent H (Dec 29, 2019)

Hey Dave,

How are you making out with this project?


----------



## Chicken lights (Dec 30, 2019)

Brent H said:


> Hey Dave,
> 
> How are you making out with this project?


Kinda got put on the back burner. 

Any luck finding a piece of stainless for a chip tray/belly pan? If not I’ll start looking this week


----------



## Brent H (Dec 30, 2019)

I think I can cover you on that! 

I am home on the 22 nd and will be getting a few jobs cleaned up.  Send me the exact centers for the feet on your lathe.  I have some welding projects for a few folks when I am back so I can modify the stand for you and have it set for you to bolt your lathe on.  If you have a location for the belt drive assembly I am sure I can rig something for that as well.  I believe that David_R8 just received a similar lathe - maybe he can add some foot print dimensions you can work from?


----------



## Chicken lights (Jan 3, 2020)

Brent H said:


> I think I can cover you on that!
> 
> I am home on the 22 nd and will be getting a few jobs cleaned up.  Send me the exact centers for the feet on your lathe.  I have some welding projects for a few folks when I am back so I can modify the stand for you and have it set for you to bolt your lathe on.  If you have a location for the belt drive assembly I am sure I can rig something for that as well.  I believe that David_R8 just received a similar lathe - maybe he can add some foot print dimensions you can work from?







Does that make sense? 

The plywood it’s on now measures 24” wide, and it’s taking up 48” of length. 

The lathe sits on two main pads, that measure 5”x7”. The holes are spaced 6” apart centre to centre. 

The front holes can be 1-2” to the centre from the edge of the plywood, they are roughly 1” now and the handles all have plenty of room. 

They measure 33 1/4” centre to centre apart. If you centred the first one 4” in from the RH side it would fit the footprint well. Then the second one 37 1/4” from the right 

The motor and countershaft only takes up 14” of length, so the pan could be made in an L shape, or it could be a rectangle too, I think either way would be fine 

Let me know if any of that is confusing


----------



## Chicken lights (Jan 3, 2020)

It looks like you could likely shrink this up to 4”. The turnbuckle would have to be shortened and shorter belts too. 

So before I measure up a bunch on where it is now- should I/we try to make this a little more compact?


----------



## Brent H (Jan 3, 2020)

Hey Dave, 

Looks like we can make a pan that is a bit smaller or like an L.  I will see if I can find a foot print drawing of the original set up.  It may be advantageous to shrink up the belt distance, although, the turnbuckle, if original, might not be something you want/need to modify.   

Your drawing sheet is perfectly fine - I will chuck it into cad and post it back for your approval


----------



## Chicken lights (Jan 3, 2020)

I even tried to use one grid as 2”... until I got to the 5”x7” part...
So it’s somewhat a scale drawing


----------



## johnnielsen (Jan 4, 2020)

I have some 20/22 ga stainless sheet for a chip pan if you haven't found a source yet?


----------



## Brent H (Jan 4, 2020)

I should have enough to make the pan for Dave ......but....where are you located in case we have a failure


----------



## YotaBota (Jan 30, 2020)

For the tail stock - I don't know if you can source them locally but Amazon has 0522 Gits oilers for $4.56 each. The oil hole looks pretty gummed up, this would be a good add on.


----------



## Brent H (Feb 21, 2020)

Hey Dave, Check this out:

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-tool-storage-bench/st-catharines/lathe-stand/1488782221?undefined


----------



## Chicken lights (Feb 21, 2020)

Brent H said:


> Hey Dave, Check this out:
> 
> https://www.kijiji.ca/v-tool-storage-bench/st-catharines/lathe-stand/1488782221?undefined


Dang that’s cheap!!


----------



## YYCHM (Feb 21, 2020)

Brent H said:


> Hey Dave, Check this out:
> 
> https://www.kijiji.ca/v-tool-storage-bench/st-catharines/lathe-stand/1488782221?undefined



Hey Brent..... Is this a better option for David than that Utilathe cabinet?  I'll give the guy $25 to hold it until someone can retrieve it.

Craig


----------



## Brent H (Feb 21, 2020)

Hey Craig, 

It would be up to Dave - not sure on his space restrictions.  Seems like a nice simple stand.  I am on the Ship until Mid March and it sounds like Dave may never get home - hahahaha

I just can't believe the guy is pitching it if not sold - looks like more than $20 worth of steel!  If anyone on the forum was close to St. Catherines and Dave wanted it - might be an option???


----------



## YYCHM (Feb 21, 2020)

Hmmmmm….. My thoughts were that the guy would have to sit on it for a couple months.  Looks like it's more than 6 hrs one way from you guys. Probably not worth the time and gas.  Sure looks like the correct configuration for David's lathe with that hang over?

Craig


----------



## trlvn (Feb 22, 2020)

That bench is less than an hour away from me but I don't think it would fit in my Venza.  Not sure I want to strap it to the roof rack, either!  

Pretty cool design with the splayed back legs.  The only quibble I would have is that the shape and front bracing limits the amount of storage that could be added under the bench.  Still, it is a screaming bargain and I'd be willing to get creative if I needed a bench.

Craig


----------



## Chicken lights (Apr 5, 2020)

Went up to see the master fabricator @Brent H today. We got a bunch done making a South Bend fit a Unilathe base with a custom stainless steel chip tray. Brent had a 1/2 hp motor that should fit and work good, plus a smooth pulley to run a flat belt. Great day, good weather and good company!!

Thanks @YYCHobbyMachinist for the base!


----------



## David_R8 (Apr 5, 2020)

Nice work!
Is that @Brent H's Everlast in the background? What model?


----------



## Chicken lights (Apr 5, 2020)

David_R8 said:


> Nice work!
> Is that @Brent H's Everlast in the background? What model?


I didn’t catch the model, sorry!
Brent will be along I’m sure to chime in


----------



## YYCHM (Apr 5, 2020)

NICE!!!  You'll be making chips in no time now  Man, that $300 parts machine went the mile helping a lot of folks out, as did Brent tearing it down.  Thanks Brent!

I don't see any snow on the ground?  How come you guys are so lucky?  Can't seem to make up it's mind here


----------



## Brent H (Apr 6, 2020)

@Chicken lights - what a great afternoon of playing!  I hope you were able to get it all unloaded ok?!
The little south bend is in great condition and everything moves on it.  Lots of clean up but it does not appear to have been a highly used machine!

@David_R8  the welder is an Everlast MTS 211si.   https://www.everlastwelders.ca/prod...mts-211si-with-tig-package-gmaw-gtaw-smaw.php
It will not TIG aluminium (no AC function) but I have a spool gun it will fun with great success on Aluminium.  I have had it for four years I think and it works quite well in all functions.  It is better with gas over flux core mig.  I bought it at the dealer and got a better deal than the advertised price.
Great to see you again David - be sure to post the final set up!!


----------



## David_R8 (Apr 6, 2020)

Thanks @Brent H, I'm looking to supplement my Millermatic 130 which is a 110v machine. It works well, obviously doesn't have the 'oomph' for thicker gauge material and aluminum is a non-starter for it.

So trying to figure out if I go AC/DC TIG or just DC TIG. I've never needed to weld aluminum but I suppose there's always a possibility.
Currently thinking about a PowerTIG 185DV.


----------



## Brent H (Apr 6, 2020)

@David_R8  - depending on your needs - the Millermatic 130 will get you quite far if it is running well (my feed motor went for a crap and the cost to replace is next to Utilathe parts).  

everlast makes some nice tig/stick - Plasma cutters  as combo machines.  Perhaps see if they have an AC wave form one of those.  - you could probably also sell off your millermatic and buy most of a new “inverter type” welder.   Perhaps even see about a mig/stick and separate plasma with the CNC option - it just keeps going!! LOL


----------



## Chicken lights (Apr 6, 2020)

@Brent H asked if I had a half moon key for the lantern post, and a spanner key. Looks like I do. 

Anyone identify the other jaws or tools?


----------



## Chicken lights (Apr 6, 2020)

Also Brent pointed out there’s an adapter on the spindle to mount the larger chucks, that explains the one smaller chuck


----------



## David_R8 (Apr 6, 2020)

Chicken lights said:


> View attachment 8479View attachment 8480View attachment 8481View attachment 8482
> @Brent H asked if I had a half moon key for the lantern post, and a spanner key. Looks like I do.
> 
> Anyone identify the other jaws or tools?


Looks like a set of three lathe dogs in the last pic.


----------



## Chicken lights (Apr 6, 2020)

David_R8 said:


> Looks like a set of three lathe dogs in the last pic.


What’s a lathe dog? Or, what does it do?


----------



## YYCHM (Apr 6, 2020)

Chicken lights said:


> What’s a lathe dog? Or, what does it do?



This explains it better than I could.  Pictures help to.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lathe_dog


----------



## Chicken lights (Apr 7, 2020)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> This explains it better than I could.  Pictures help to.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lathe_dog


Gotcha!


----------



## RobinHood (Apr 7, 2020)

1) look like outside jaws for your 3J scroll chuck. You replace the inside jaws with them to hold larger pieces safely

2) is a left hand turning tool holder. You undo the square head bolt and insert an appropriate size HSS cutter. Then tighten down on the HSS bit.

3) the wedge goes under your tool holder and allows rake angle adjustment. It sit in a convex washer of the lantern tool post. See pic below.

Here is picture of the full lantern style tool post with all components and a tool holder with a HSS cutting tool.


----------



## Chicken lights (Apr 7, 2020)

RobinHood said:


> View attachment 8504
> 
> 1) look like outside jaws for your 3J scroll chuck. You replace the inside jaws with them to hold larger pieces safely
> 
> ...


Thank you!


----------



## Chicken lights (Apr 11, 2020)

How a redneck moves heavy junk by himself 
Made up some studs quick to line things up by myself


----------



## Chicken lights (Apr 11, 2020)

My South Bend Unilathe 

Nothing was open today to scrounge a power cord for the motor. Still need to trim the chip tray to clearance the motor, so I can adjust the belt tension. 
But it’s SO CLOSE to being a working lathe again!!


----------



## YYCHM (Apr 11, 2020)

Nice!  What do you figure that stand weighs?

What?  Don't have a retired power cord you could donate to the project?  Like the one I have that the wife ran over 4 times with the electric lawn mower LOL.  I'd be itching to get her rotating.

Craig


----------



## Chicken lights (Apr 11, 2020)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> Nice!  What do you figure that stand weighs?
> 
> What?  Don't have a retired power cord you could donate to the project?  Like the one I have that the wife ran over 4 times with the electric lawn mower LOL.  I'd be itching to get her rotating.
> 
> Craig


Gotta be in the 2-300 pound range. For the base. 2 full grown men struggle to lift it. 

I got nothing at the shop to sacrifice for a power cord


----------



## Dabbler (Apr 11, 2020)

too bad we aren't closer I have  dozens of NEMA power cords scrounged from old computer equipment.


----------



## YYCHM (Apr 11, 2020)

Dabbler said:


> too bad we aren't closer I have  dozens of NEMA power cords scrounged from old computer equipment.



Me too


----------



## Chicken lights (Apr 12, 2020)

Anyone know how to wire up a Leeson 1/2 hp motor? A buddy dropped off a 3 wire extension cord for me to use. There’s a wiring diagram on the plate of sorts, but it’s greek to me


----------



## YYCHM (Apr 12, 2020)

An image of the motor and plate diagram might help.  I'm sure @Brent H will know how to wire it.


----------



## Chicken lights (Apr 12, 2020)

T1 is crimped together
T2 and T3 are maretted together. 
T4, 5 and 8 are all single wires 
P1 and P2 go to the thermal reset switch


----------



## YYCHM (Apr 12, 2020)

I have a Leeson 3/4 HP on my PHS.  I'll pull the wiring box cover off and see If I can make sense of things.  My motor plate has the same pin out info as yours.

Are you trying wire 110 or 220 in?

I'm running 110 and as far as I can tell.

Ground just gets grounded to the box.

Line (W) joins with T2, T4, and T5

Line (B) joins with P1 as it comes off the reset button.  T1 and P2 are also attached to the reset button (not sure what's going on here).

P2, T8, and T3 are joined together.

So the plate info makes sense for 110.

When I took the cover plate off the box one of those twist on wire joining thingies rolled out of the box onto the floor LOL.


----------



## YYCHM (Apr 12, 2020)

Did you get her wired up?

Craig


----------



## Chicken lights (Apr 12, 2020)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> Did you get her wired up?
> 
> Craig


That sort of worked. I had to spin the pulley by hand to get it to spin. Then after 30 seconds of running it tripped the motors breaker and quit.


----------



## YYCHM (Apr 12, 2020)

Chicken lights said:


> That sort of worked. I had to spin the pulley by hand to get it to spin. Then after 30 seconds of running it tripped the motors breaker and quit.



Where's @Johnwa when you need him?

How many and what wires are connected to your reset switch/breaker?  You're wiring for 110 correct?

No smoke I hope.....

Craig


----------



## Chicken lights (Apr 12, 2020)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> Where's @Johnwa when you need him?
> 
> How many and what wires are connected to your reset switch/breaker?  You're wiring for 110 correct?
> 
> Craig


Yes, 110v. I followed what you posted. 
I’m pretty sure I’ll need a switch of some kind. 

I think 3 wires go to the reset breaker


----------



## YYCHM (Apr 12, 2020)

Chicken lights said:


> Yes, 110v. I followed what you posted.
> I’m pretty sure I’ll need a switch of some kind.
> 
> I think 3 wires go to the reset breaker



There's a start/stop switch on your stand?

3 wires are what I saw connected to my reset breaker.  P1, P2, and T1.


----------



## Chicken lights (Apr 12, 2020)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> There's a start/stop switch on your stand?
> 
> 3 wires are what I saw connected to my reset breaker.  P1, P2, and T1.


I’m not even gonna try to figure out the wiring on the base just yet.


----------



## YYCHM (Apr 12, 2020)

I pulled the cover off my start capacitor.  The lines supplying it are labeled T5 and T6.

You're having to jump start the motor manually sounds like the start capacitor isn't in the loop.

Where did this motor come from?

Craig


----------



## Brent H (Apr 12, 2020)

@Chicken lights - should wire up like this for 110v:





@YYCHobbyMachinist - motor was on my Utilathe when purchased.  - Inpit original 3 phase back on.  Motor might have been set up for 220 so Dave you need to make sure things are wired correctly for 110v.
You can put the black on the P1 and the white on the T2, T4, T5  if you want the hot on the overload.


----------



## Marc Moreau (Apr 12, 2020)

Chicken lights said:


> View attachment 8621
> My South Bend Unilathe
> 
> Nothing was open today to scrounge a power cord for the motor. Still need to trim the chip tray to clearance the motor, so I can adjust the belt tension.
> But it’s SO CLOSE to being a working lathe again!!


Nice lathe simple to understand  nice mechanic.


----------



## Marc Moreau (Apr 12, 2020)

Chicken lights said:


> View attachment 8622
> T1 is crimped together
> T2 and T3 are maretted together.
> T4, 5 and 8 are all single wires
> P1 and P2 go to the thermal reset switch


My first motor on my Ultilathe was like this one .


----------



## trlvn (Apr 13, 2020)

Chicken lights said:


> View attachment 8622
> T1 is crimped together
> T2 and T3 are maretted together.
> T4, 5 and 8 are all single wires
> P1 and P2 go to the thermal reset switch


@Brent H has given you the correct wiring to get the motor running counter clockwise.  It appears this motor was being used with a reversing switch previously, probably on 220 volt supply.  Note that the motor will run the other direction by interchanging which group of wires T5 and T8 are connected to.  A drum switch is commonly used to control forward/reverse operation.

Re switching, a simple light switch is 'OK' for a 1/2 HP motor.  Motors are different from a light circuit as there is a big inrush of current as the motor comes up to full RPM.  If you have a heavy piece of stock chucked up, that inrush may last a pretty long time and will eventually burn out the contacts on a light switch.  A "motor rated" switch is just that--the contacts are much beefier.  Busy Bee sells a couple of options for less than $20 each.  I like the one with the emergency-off paddle.  OTOH, you may want to be able to run the lathe in reverse.  Unfortunately, I don't know of a source for a drum switch for less than about $80 USD. 

HTH

Craig
(BTW, I am not an electrician and I'm just barely smart enough to know not to lick the bare wires coming out of the wall socket!)


----------



## YYCHM (Apr 13, 2020)

Any luck getting her turning?

Is that start/stop switch on the cabinet mechanical?  IE when you push one in the other pops out (with no power applied).


----------



## Brent H (Apr 13, 2020)

Hey @YYCHobbyMachinist  the start/stop is intermittent contact and there is a relay box inside the cabinet.  Push start and the relay is to energize.  I think the overload and such are in there as well.

For @Chicken lights, you could wire up so that the motor overload is not in the picture and the relay cabinet overload is the overload.  

I cannot really say how well the buttons or relay (motor starter) cabinet is as it was outside......


----------



## YYCHM (Apr 13, 2020)

This may actually make sense then.






Apart from the fact his cabinet doesn't have the fwd/rev switch.

Craig


----------



## Chicken lights (Apr 13, 2020)

Thanks everyone for your help!! I’m back on the road, this will have to wait until I’m home again


----------



## YYCHM (May 10, 2020)

Where are we at with this?  Still not running?


----------



## Chicken lights (May 10, 2020)

Nope. 
I’ve had other things to focus on, unfortunately


----------



## Brent H (May 10, 2020)

Dave is building the suspense.......


----------



## YYCHM (Jun 20, 2020)

Lost interest in this?  Load it up and take it to Brent when you go for dinner.

Daaaaa…..  I suppose you could just take the motor with you...


----------



## Brent H (Jun 20, 2020)

@YYCHobbyMachinist - Dave has to be the busiest trucker I have ever met - probably because he is dang good, He is home less than me!  LOL  (Although I guess that really funny (haha)) when we met up last time it was at the truck inspection station - crazy busy!

I have a few things for him so I hope to see him my next time off - and @Chicken lights :  Bring the motor and we will get it going!!!


----------



## Chicken lights (Jun 20, 2020)

No, haven’t given up on it 

It’s a sob story nobody wants to hear I’m just insanely busy. Even when I try to book time off something comes up. I have tomorrow off, I’m trying to see a couple friends and fix my junk then leaving Monday again


----------



## trlvn (Jun 21, 2020)

Chicken lights said:


> No, haven’t given up on it
> 
> It’s a sob story nobody wants to hear I’m just insanely busy. Even when I try to book time off something comes up. I have tomorrow off, I’m trying to see a couple friends and fix my junk then leaving Monday again


Yikes.  I hate it when my junk needs fixing!

Craig


----------



## YYCHM (Nov 1, 2021)

Hmm...... Three years later and still not making chips.....  Sad, Sad, Sad...


----------



## Chicken lights (Nov 1, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> Hmm...... Three years later and still not making chips.....  Sad, Sad, Sad...


Yeah, that’s pretty bad, even for me 

But at least you learned some special rigging techniques.....


----------



## ShawnR (Nov 2, 2021)

Well...this makes sense now. When we met @Chicken lights I recall you saying you had an old lathe you were working on (as if I knew) but I had not seen this thread. Then when I found the thread in new posts, I thought, hey Dave got a lathe!....and now I see that they are one and the same. 

Unfortunate that work gets in the way so much! Good luck Dave. Looks like a great lathe and fun to get so many members involved in it's resurrection!

Cheers,


----------



## Canadium (Nov 2, 2021)

Chicken lights said:


> But at least you learned some special rigging techniques.....



I wish there was more on this forum about rigging and moving techniques. There was a great thread about @Dabbler 's homemade crane but that covers just a fraction of whats needed in a heavy machine move. How do you get a full sized vertical mill or a one ton lathe home and into your shop without either killing yourself, someone else, or destroying the machine? I think I have most of the tools I would need; a 2 ton gantry, 2 and 3 ton chain hoists, several 2 inch tie down straps, a couple of transport chains, load binders etc. But I still feel like I wouldn't know what I was doing. No experience, no knowledge, no know how!


----------



## historicalarms (Nov 2, 2021)

Canadium said:


> I wish there was more on this forum about rigging and moving techniques. There was a great thread about @Dabbler 's homemade crane but that covers just a fraction of whats needed in a heavy machine move. How do you get a full sized vertical mill or a one ton lathe home and into your shop without either killing yourself, someone else, or destroying the machine? I think I have most of the tools I would need; a 2 ton gantry, 2 and 3 ton chain hoists, several 2 inch tie down straps, a couple of transport chains, load binders etc. But I still feel like I wouldn't know what I was doing. No experience, no knowledge, no know how!


  Two rules that i adhere to when when lifting heavy stuff....remove every piece that comes off that doesn't require a laser level to get back in place...and lift on places that don't bend....cant go wrong.


----------



## RobinHood (Nov 2, 2021)

The “problem” with rigging is that every move is different.

What works to move a lathe two feet from out of a corner into the middle of a shop/garage for better access during the move, may not work at all to further move the machine all the way out of the garage/shop and then onto the chosen mode of transport.

In an ideal world, everything would be accessible with a 50T crane and you grab the machine with 20T slings and be done with it. That is almost never the case.

Few things that I have learned over the years:

- only lift as much as needed - if you can move the item when it’s a 1/4” above a solid surface, do it; no need to lift it 2’ into the air.

- if at all possible, lift so that the c of g is below the lifting point; much more stable.

- remember: “steel on steel => no deal”; unless you want to slide the item along the solid surface - then it is a great way to move the machine without lifting it.

- it takes time to move stuff; estimate a reasonable amount of time, then double it.

- your rigging equipment is never “too strong”; however, the machine can easily be too heavy. In other words, there is nothing wrong with using a 6500lbs sling on a 100lb anvil, but there is everything wrong with trying to move the same 100lb anvil with a 75lb sling (ie, you are using the sling “in its safety zone” - assuming it uses a 150% safety factor - most are higher than that).

- rolling friction is less than static friction; if you can get rollers under the item, it might help.

- look for three points of contact; best way to move across uneven surfaces when you can’t lift the item clear off the floor with a crane.

- if the machine is going to fall, let it; better to have a bruised ego, than none at all (see next points).

- stay out of the danger zone; it may be larger and in a different spot than you think.

- have another set of eyes with you; they have the most important job of all the workers: they don’t necessarily actively help, but they observe and make sure that all the above steps/practices are followed.

- everybody has the right to call STOP. No harm no foul if you stop to re-evaluate one too many times.

- it’s usually never just a single item that causes a failure; it’s a series of problems - look up Swiss Cheese Model on how to break the error chain.

- etc, etc…

These are just some of be things that I can think of right now.


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## Chicken lights (Nov 2, 2021)

@RobinHood hit most of the important things 

As he mentioned it’s tricky because it’s always dependant on so many factors. The Switzerland surface grinder I moved recently had its own dedicated 3 chain lifting basket for that machine only. But the trailer was 6” too high so we switched to a 4 chain basket that had the extra grab hooks to be able to adjust chain length

Couple years ago had a 2000 pound piece of glass shatter because they had the wrong slings and couldn’t get the safety latch to close on the crane hook 

I agree with Robin on the letting it fall if it’s gonna go, however I’ll point out that you need to leave an exit. If you are in a pinch point stop everything and move. General rule of thumb is have something solid between you and what’s being moved 

Also on that line is if you’re working with machinery setup basic hand signals with who you’re working with. There’s no right or wrong as long as everyone knows what they are. I’d say tilt back/forward, up/down, stop, kill the machine, turn the machine and back/forward are the most important ones 

Stop was always the hardest one to teach, for some reason. 

I guess eye contact too. Even if I’ve given the stop hand signal I don’t move from the safe spot until the operator acknowledges with a head nod or something, stop means machine in neutral hands off gear shifts and steering wheels feet off pedals 

Last, don’t be afraid to move. Couple weeks ago delivering job boxes to a worksite, trailer facing downhill, forklift operator bumped the trailer. One job box that was pinned to the wall bumped loose and headed towards another one held in place by a strap we had anchored it with. I saw the forklift bump the wall, turned and saw the box start moving and I was gone. No idea if that strap was gonna hold two plus the speed of the crash. Forklift operator got a chuckle out of it and I don’t care. 

I guess the other thing about working with guys is reading them. Are they morons or are they competent. Are they day drinkers or sober. Are they used to the machine they’re running. 

I moved an oversize combine head couple years ago, used to backhoes to load it, then used a crappy forklift/tractor conversion and a 35 ton worn out hoe to unload it. The new owners asked me if they were paying me to haul it or to coordinate the unloading


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## Canadium (Nov 2, 2021)

RobinHood said:


> - remember: “steel on steel => no deal”; unless you want to slide the item along the solid surface - then it is a great way to move the machine without lifting it.
> 
> ....



I've often wondered about this very point. My go to rental place is U-Haul. Their best trailer is all galvanized steel construction. Putting a heavy machine directly on such a deck never seemed like a good idea to me. Would simply putting a rubber mat in between the machine and the deck be a sufficient solution? Anyone know of a better trailer rental in the Hamilton area. I've looked around and never found anything conveniently close.


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## Chicken lights (Nov 2, 2021)

Canadium said:


> I've often wondered about this very point. My go to rental place is U-Haul. Their best trailer is all galvanized steel construction. Putting a heavy machine directly on such a deck never seemed like a good idea to me. Would simply putting a rubber mat in between the machine and the deck be a sufficient solution? Anyone know of a better trailer rental in the Hamilton area. I've looked around and never found anything conveniently close.


Depending on who is loading/unloading, a couple 4x4’s would work better. Allows the forks to slide in and out. Unless it’s on a skid then the wood would be redundant. But to answer the question rubber mats (highway truck mud flaps, free in most truck stop parking lots) or even cardboard is good for friction

Some machines you can’t throw straps over the top and you have to strap the skid down instead of the machine. Other machines you can run chains through the base to secure them.


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## Susquatch (Nov 2, 2021)

These last few posts were great reading guys. I may cut and paste all that into a dedicated document. 

Thank you all.


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## Brent H (Nov 2, 2021)

Here are a few more tid bits:

If you are going for the big distance move:

-Ensure the machine is fully disconnected from all power.
-Lock or seal shut any doors that can fly open
-be sure all loose items are removed from the machine and put into manageable containers
-Drain all fluids  and wipe off grease and oils that can cause grip issues or get you and your lifting arrangements all slippy
-Make sure the exit path is clear and measure the route to make sure you can fit the machine out the doors
-If you have the machine on a cart or other rolling carrier - secure the machine to the carrier, make sure the carrier cannot free roll away or           towards you - into a wall, down the stairs etc
-be sure to balance the load for a lift - pick it up so it stays level - use a spreader if required
-don't over sling the lifting hook - use rated shackles, cables, slings chain falls etc
-protect the stairs, exit pathway, floors etc from damage
-properly secure top heavy equipment - always best to take it apart if possible .  - like take the base off the lathe or fold a mill into the proper head position for moving.
-if possible take the machine apart into manageable sizes
-watch sharp edges and protect the lifting straps - watch chains on equipment - things like cast iron can shatter if reefed down to secure them
- remember that if the lift is on an angle your arrangement may be de-rated given the severity of the angle - like a chain fall that lifts 1 ton does it straight up and down - not hauling a lathe up the stairs where the connection point is at an angle
- lathes roll really well on cement floors with a couple steel pipes - as do mills
-Try and look up the weight of your machine - heavy stuff is typically listed in the manual - make sure your gear is good to go for that.
-avoid using pulleys or ropes that you are just physically holding and pulling on to lift the machine - best to have something that locks the position with each advancement of motion.
-if you are craning things - use a tag line to help control the load
-DO NOT WALK OR GO UNDER THE LOAD
-discuss signals and hand gestures or have a line of communication if you do not have direct site of the person operating the winch or chain falls
- try and establish rest areas in the move where you can get the object to and then take a safe break if required.
-Beer etc best served AFTER the move
-make sure your trailer can take the load - secure the trailer from tipping if it is off the truck ball - never hurts to throw a couple jack stands under the back end for support.

There is lots more but I gotta go see some contractors...

But the biggest one of all - if you need a heavy lathe moved out of a basement- don't call me  (just kidding @Canadium - we rocked that move!)


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## Dabbler (Nov 2, 2021)

There's a lot of great content above.

Here's a few things that will help you get from "I'm not sure' to 'I can do this':

Always look for the ways thing can move, even if you think they can't.
Make every move segment planned, with safety of 1) people 2) the facilities and other equipment present 3) the item to be moved
The result is to have zero unplanned movements.

It is better to have 1" of progress than 1' of danger.

 all suspended loads can fall.
all loads on rollers can move on their own.
keep checking that the load or lifting equipment  cannot fall over

how I got started:  I had a 1700 lb milling machine that was on a trailer, 12" above a gravel lane, 30 feet from my garage.  the lane was on an 8 degree slope and it  was above the garage.  I used a pry bar, 2X10 lumber, wooden wedges, pipe rollers and plywood to move it by myself into the garage.  It took 6 hours.
-------------------

Finally - if you don't have patience you aren't right to move heavy stuff.


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## CalgaryPT (Nov 2, 2021)

trlvn said:


> It's a slippery slope...


More of a Sarlacc Pit really.


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## Susquatch (Nov 3, 2021)

@Brent H - you forgot to mention your wench Bertha! 

You guys must have all been biting your tongues back a few months ago when I posted a picture of my little loader tractor taking my Bridgeport off of my flatbed......


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## RobinHood (Nov 3, 2021)

Whatever works and gets the job done safely. All that maters.


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## Susquatch (Nov 3, 2021)

RobinHood said:


> Whatever works and gets the job done safely. All that maters.



It worked, but at the time I figured it was only a few more pounds before the rear wheels came off the ground or the hydraulics maxed out. 

In hind sight, prolly the worst thing I did wrong was doing it alone without a second pair of eyes. Should have called a neighbour over.


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## Canadium (Nov 3, 2021)

Brent H said:


> But the biggest one of all - if you need a heavy lathe moved out of a basement- don't call me  (just kidding @Canadium - we rocked that move!)


Brent and his boys are my heroes for that lathe move. They saved my skin. If it wasn't for their help I would have been in deep doodoo! Thanks again Brent and thanks again to your great boys!


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## Chicken lights (Nov 3, 2021)

See? Always keep something between you and the piece that can bite you!

(Totally just a joke please do NOT do this)


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## Chicken lights (Mar 31, 2022)

While gently disassembling this the part where the taper pin fits fell off. A year or two ago I talked to my local machine shop about moving the pin spot 90 degrees. He said sure bring the drive wheel back with the shaft. I took the part where the shaft rides too, so hopefully he can make all 3 pieces work together

I have one contact on the motor to solder but I had an electrician look at it in the early spring of 2021 (I think) so I know the motor works. 

Fingers crossed @YYCHM I have a good feeling 2022 (2023 for sure) I’ll have this back together


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## historicalarms (Mar 31, 2022)

Chicken lights said:


> View attachment 18053See? Always keep something between you and the piece that can bite you!
> 
> (Totally just a joke please do NOT do this)


Ha Ha Ha did you ever read the "do not disassemble" warning on a brake pot....and then say to yourself "aww, cant be that bad"...You know "the rest of the story"


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## Marc Moreau (Mar 31, 2022)

Chicken lights said:


> View attachment 18053See? Always keep something between you and the piece that can bite you!
> 
> (Totally just a joke please do NOT do this)


No safety glass.


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