# Cambridge - machinist newb



## ThirtyOneDriver (Jan 11, 2022)

While looking for information, I've come across this forum a number of times and thought it was time to become a member.

Growing up I wanted to build racing cars because that's what Dad's hobby was - I joined the Army soon after high school as a Materials Technician (Army's "jack of all trades"/millwright, but diluted experience because of soldiering, training, etc.) and recently retired due to a back injury (nothing cool; a guy lost his temper playing ball hockey and cross checked me).  I'm still trying to pursue my dream/passion of building racing cars but learning that my body limits me in time and strength/capabilities.  I have a CX709("x", the one w/ the motor issues) lathe, a CX611 milling machine, a CR-6 MAX 3d printer, and an Ender 3 Pro 3d printer (plus a bunch of welding and fabrication stuff); most of this stuff is recently "new" so I'm learning.

Researching a DRO for the lathe and a DRO + power feed vs. a CNC retrofit for the milling machine is what brought me here; I got the CR-6 3D printer unboxed and working around Christmas and LOVE setting it up to work on something in the morning and letting it work.  My back tends to last for about 90 minute cycles so designing items on SolidWorks and then having a machine make them instead of me being bent over a machine or a welding/cutting bench has been very rewarding... it makes it so that during those "good" cycles, I can do something like weld, or clean my shop, or whatever.

I have some tooling, I'm trouble shooting some stuff and may have made some unorthodox decisions on stuff due to a lack of experience/knowledge and an abundance of impatience, I could use SOME guidance (overall) but I do have a "go to guy" that I trust (lessons could be a useful thing, but I don't want to sit at a computer and watch someone else work, I'd prefer to have the "hands on" experience)... I figure that (like the last ~20 ish years of "adulthood") I'll figure things out as I attempt to do things... that I'll break some $h!t, wear some cr@p out, need stitches at some point, need saving at some point, but generally do a little better job tomorrow than I did yesterday.

Nice to meet everyone.

- Johnathan (goes by John)


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## YYCHM (Jan 11, 2022)

Welcome from Calgary.


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## justindavidow (Jan 11, 2022)

ThirtyOneDriver said:


> may have made some unorthodox decisions on stuff due to a lack of experience/knowledge and an abundance of impatience



I feel this one @ThirtyOneDriver !

Nothing wrong with learning and nothing wrong with "getting it wrong":   I come from a heavy IT background where we preach "fail fast":  you can learn the most when you know what doesn't work and why it doesn't. 

Welcome from Manitoba!


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## David_R8 (Jan 11, 2022)

Welcome from Vancouver Island!


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## 6.5 Fan (Jan 12, 2022)

Welcome from SK.


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## trlvn (Jan 12, 2022)

Welcome from Oakville.

Craig


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## darrin1200 (Jan 12, 2022)

Welcome aboard John

I’m a retired Gun Plumber. 26 years, and like you, left for back problems. Unfortunately, I couldn’t convince VAC, that it was job related.
 When were you in, I taught regimental from 2004-2008.
These are a great bunch of patient guys around here.


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## ThirtyOneDriver (Jan 12, 2022)

@darrin1200 - 2002-2018; field portion of my 3's regimental would have been ~ Feb '03 and 5's ~ Jan '06/'07 (we were still using Cherokee's as MRTs for our RRR, I recall really enjoying being the "driver" because of the snow) - Dom was my best ANCIL supervisor throughout my career.  I won the lottery w/ my back - happened while in KAF, super well documented even before an MO believed me (2010 injury, got to see medical attention for it ~'15/'16) and once believed I was referred to a civi-surgeon who essentially came back w/ a "you're ducked" assessment.  I have family ties to your trade if you were in before '85 (I doubt it, math is close but not likely).


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## deleted_user (Jan 12, 2022)

ThirtyOneDriver said:


> While looking for information, I've come across this forum a number of times and thought it was time to become a member.
> 
> Growing up I wanted to build racing cars because that's what Dad's hobby was - I joined the Army soon after high school as a Materials Technician (Army's "jack of all trades"/millwright, but diluted experience because of soldiering, training, etc.) and recently retired due to a back injury (nothing cool; a guy lost his temper playing ball hockey and cross checked me).  I'm still trying to pursue my dream/passion of building racing cars but learning that my body limits me in time and strength/capabilities.  I have a CX709("x", the one w/ the motor issues) lathe, a CX611 milling machine, a CR-6 MAX 3d printer, and an Ender 3 Pro 3d printer (plus a bunch of welding and fabrication stuff); most of this stuff is recently "new" so I'm learning.
> 
> ...


Welcome from another John in Toronto.


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## ThirtyOneDriver (Jan 12, 2022)

Here's some pics of my Black Friday "shopping spree" -  because I bought this stuff before really "knowing" what I didn't know, I've created a project (or two) for myself.









The QCTP that I bought is too (big?/tall?... I can't lower the tools low enough using the adjustments to have them hit the c/l of the lathe chuck) for my lathe (BXA, 13" x 24" CX709"x" lathe).  
I've assembled some additional tooling and material (a block of 1018) to remake the 'tool slide'(?) (RED ARROW in photo) so that, when I mess "improve" it up, that I still have the original to fall back on. 
The BXA wedge style QCTP that I bought has the 'American' style(?) custom t-slot and using my highly inaccurate eagle eye, I think I should be able to machine said slot into the tool slide(?) while not affecting the compound rest(?).






Before I actually attempt to remake the tool slide, I'm going to spend some time using the mill to gain experience/knowledge...   Not shown in any pictures yet is a 5" vise that I like, some indicators that I have but don't have experience w/ and some other stuff that will help me.  I used the edge finder the first time to square the fixed edge of the vise but now believe that I should be using the indicator in the future.


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## YYCHM (Jan 12, 2022)

ThirtyOneDriver said:


> Here's some pics of my Black Friday "shopping spree" -  because I bought this stuff before really "knowing" what I didn't know, I've created a project (or two) for myself.
> 
> View attachment 19683View attachment 19684
> 
> ...



How much do you have to lower the QCTP in order to make it work?  Post an image of the TP mounted on the compound.  A simple solution might be to mill a little ofF the bottom on the TP.  Another option is remove the compound and replace it with a slide riser block.


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## MrHermit (Jan 12, 2022)

ThirtyOneDriver said:


> Here's some pics of my Black Friday "shopping spree" -  because I bought this stuff before really "knowing" what I didn't know, I've created a project (or two) for myself.
> 
> View attachment 19683View attachment 19684
> 
> ...


Hello welcome! I turned a custom tool post for my 709 that was longer/larger diameter for the qctp that I bought then turned the bore on the stock tool holder so it would also fit. Opened up and rethreaded the ... Um silver tightener handle thing that holds it down so I could continue to use it as well.


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## MrHermit (Jan 12, 2022)

MrHermit said:


> Hello welcome! I turned a custom tool post for my 709 that was longer/larger diameter for the qctp that I bought then turned the bore on the stock tool holder so it would also fit. Opened up and rethreaded the ... Um silver tightener handle thing that holds it down so I could continue to use it as well.


Idk if I have the same qctp you bought or not


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## Six O Two (Jan 12, 2022)

Welcome to the forum!

Your black friday haul is impressive! I love new tool day.

I think you'll find a BXA tool post too big for that lathe. I had it's predecessor (ct089) and i felt the AXA was the perfect size, given the lathe's capabilities. Might be easier to take the hit on return shipping to swap it out. Remaking your compound slide would be a pretty epic beginner project. I think often times the dovetails and gibs are hand scraped for a precision fit. Also, you kind of want a big chunk of metal there to add rigidity at the point where the tool is held. Although I guess you could create a solid post and remove the compound altogether to get a bit more height as YYCHM suggested (See also the solid toolpost thread). You can also machine the bottom of the tool slot in the holder so it goes lower.


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## Six O Two (Jan 12, 2022)

MrHermit said:


> Idk if I have the same qctp you bought or not


That's an AXA QCTP (250-*1*00 series), the smaller one. ThirtyOneDriver's are BXA, and marked 250-*2*XX.

As I recall, I had to turn an adapter to fit the AXA on my ct089 as well, which stepped up the existing M8 stud to M12 for the qctp (numbers approximate, it was a while ago). As I was pretty green (still am...), I scrapped about half a dozen tries before I had a (admittedly very simple) part I was happy with.


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## ThirtyOneDriver (Jan 12, 2022)

YYCHM said:


> How much do you have to lower the QCTP in order to make it work?  Post an image of the TP mounted on the compound.  A simple solution might be to mill a little of the bottom on the TP.  Another option is remove the compound and replace it with a slide riser block.


Getting pictures ready for you may have opened a new avenue to pursue... I threw this together and think I could (without investigation) maybe make an adapter to mount the QCTP in the same position w/o using the t-slot mount.  "They" say something about getting your 'laziest' friend to weigh in on projects because that friend likely sees a much easier solution to whatever rabbit hole you got going on... well; out in the shop in shorts and slippers to take a picture works as well.

Here's the photos:



 


 


 
Don't judge on how I put it together... it was an efficiency thing.

@MrHermit is correct about the AXA and BXA.

I think I could machine something that fits the bore of the BXA QCTP, fits the factory tool slide, etc.

I'll check that thread out @Six O Two


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## Six O Two (Jan 12, 2022)

ThirtyOneDriver said:


> Getting pictures ready for you may have opened a new avenue to pursue... I threw this together and think I could (without investigation) maybe make an adapter to mount the QCTP in the same position w/o using the t-slot mount.



Yep, totally... Like this:




or this:








						Fitting a Quick Change Tool Post to your Lathe [QCTP]
					

Fitting a Quick Change Tool Post to your Lathe What is a QCTP? Quick Change Toolposts (abbreviated QCTP) are a beautiful thing. My Lathemaster 9x30 came




					www.cnccookbook.com
				




Looks like you'll still need to mill maybe an 1/8" off the bottom of either your toolholders, or the tools themselves (or use smaller tools) to give you enough clearance to center the tool properly. But you're actually closer than I expected.


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## Susquatch (Jan 12, 2022)

Welcome from SE Ontario. 

I'd suggest that you slow down a bit, but I'm old so my version of slow would probably look like reverse to you. So don't listen to me. Just enjoy!


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## YYCHM (Jan 12, 2022)

This image seems to indicate the tool is too low???








Is it too high or too low?


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## YotaBota (Jan 12, 2022)

Six O Two said:


> Might be easier to take the hit on return shipping to swap it out


That's my feeling as well, get the tooling that fits the machine especially if you plan on keeping the lathe for a while. Talk to Accusize and explain that you bought the QCTP based on the swing of the lathe and see what they will do about exchanging for a AXA tool post. With the BXA you little to no wiggle room as to what size tooling you can use. You could go down to .375 tooling then you would be giving up some rigidity, boring bars may be an issue as well. The 13 inch swing would normally dictate the BXA but different machines have different needs.
Oh,,,, and another welcome from Vancouver Island.


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## ThirtyOneDriver (Jan 12, 2022)

YYCHM said:


> This image seems to indicate the tool is too low???
> 
> Is it too high or too low?



It's actually too low in that picture... I didn't expect to see that before I threw it together for the photo, hence I think your push for the photo may have opened up a better solution than I originally had planned.


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## deleted_user (Jan 12, 2022)

YotaBota said:


> That's my feeling as well, get the tooling that fits the machine especially if you plan on keeping the lathe for a while. Talk to Accusize and explain that you bought the QCTP based on the swing of the lathe and see what they will do about exchanging for a AXA tool post. With the BXA you little to no wiggle room as to what size tooling you can use. You could go down to .375 tooling then you would be giving up some rigidity, boring bars may be an issue as well. The 13 inch swing would normally dictate the BXA but different machines have different needs.
> Oh,,,, and another welcome from Vancouver Island.



I bought my QCTP from accusize as well as a lot of other tooling. I have found accusize to be good to deal with, but then I've always dealt with them in person. I too would ask them to exchange the tool post.


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## YotaBota (Jan 12, 2022)

The parting tool is another piece to look at, I checked mine and it's contact point can be quite a bit higher than cutting tool depending on how far the blade is sticking out.
I have bought three Accusize QCTP's, OXA, AXA and now the BXA and have nothing but good things to say for them.


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## ThirtyOneDriver (Jan 12, 2022)

Six O Two said:


> Yep, totally... Like this:


This is "genius" - I can take what he did there and run w/ it... as I learn more I can go back and help myself out by performing the small detail operations (slots in the bottom of the QCTP that matches up w/ the 'springed' locator pin, etc.).

Thanks a ton guys for paying attention, remembering what reference material that could help me, and then sharing it - extremely more helpful than I ever imagined I would get from a 'forum'.

I haven't used the t-slot cutter or the dove tail cutter that I picked up to for the mod... I think those were >$200 at a local supplier so that's appreciated.  

I'm hoping the BXA will still work fine - @YotaBota you have a great suggestion... I was able to get 15% off that order so I'd really like to avoid having that conversation if possible.  Remember that your first order from Accusize is 10% off if you sign up for their newsletter or whatever the ad is... I'm glad I contacted them by phone before my order; they volunteered the info on how to go about getting the discount.


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## ThirtyOneDriver (Jan 12, 2022)

@YotaBota - agreed on the parting tool - I've already run into that w/ the current setup.  With the kits/tools I bought I have three different versions... I think the one w/ the large blade (see pic) will work.






I did also end up w/ 3/8" tooling when I bought the machine, so I still do have that versatility that you're talking about (pg. 1).


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## YotaBota (Jan 12, 2022)

That's the same parting tool as mine, I'm using a 3/32 x 11/16 x 5" blade.
Have you tried the boring bars to see how well or if they center?
If you stay with the BXA all your tooling will be lower limit of adjustment, there will be no wiggle room. 
Just my .02 cents but I think you would be better off with the AXA for that machine.


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## YYCHM (Jan 12, 2022)

@YotaBota are all of his tool holders compatible if he just exchanges the tool post?


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## deleted_user (Jan 12, 2022)

YYCHM said:


> @YotaBota are all of his tool holders compatible if he just exchanges the tool post?


IIRC when I was shopping for a QCTP and tool holders the dovetail is different.  I accidentally got one holder that did not fit my post and had to exchange it


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## YYCHM (Jan 12, 2022)

TorontoBuilder said:


> IIRC when I was shopping for a QCTP and tool holders the dovetail is different.  I accidentally got one holder that did not fit my post and had to exchange it



Ya, I seem to remember @Dabbler telling me that AXA, BXA, CXA etc refers to the dovetail angle. So he would have to exchange the tool post and all of the tool holders he has accumulated


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## PeterT (Jan 12, 2022)

Yup, this situation happens quite often unfortunately. The issue is that some sellers / catalogs suggest toolpost size based on lathe swing. But the more critical sizing parameter is distance between top of compound & lathe axis. And on some offshore machines, compound resides noticeably higher than other lathes of similar swings. The Shars sketch shows this. Maybe it will help affirm what you need.

Personally I would bite the bullet & remedy the toolpost. I say that because its net easier. Hopefully they will be amenable even if you have to eat shipping/restock or flog it. Chewing away at your holders & shanks is doable but not fun. It can be pretty tough stuff if they did their job right. If you are like most of us, you will collect more & more toolholders. Its inevitable. Don't fight it. Just drink the KoolAide LOL. Try not to let that parting bladeholder tip the decision scale, there are plenty of straight shanked insert parting holders that work well & inexpensive.

Lately it seems like people have been saying holders from offshore A don't fit with offshore B (of the same model). Just a guess but I think this more to do with perpetually varying quality than adopting some new or modified standard. At least I've never seen published specs that deviate from the standard 60-deg & dovetail length. Once upon a time their whole mission was to clone N-Am holders, first poorly, then eventually pretty good. Now it seems like some bad apples again which makes this a bit of crap shoot sometimes. Try & stick with one supplier based on reputation if for no other reason is you stand some chance of refund/exchange if you already bought the same system. Even the crappy screws are borderline acceptable now.





__





						Quick Change Tool Post Set Wedge Type #222 BXA
					

Shars Tool




					www.shars.com
				








__





						shars.com - Quick Change Tooling & Toolholders
					

Shop Shars Tool today and experience our high quality quick change tool posts at a great value, same-day shipping, and dedicated customer support.




					www.shars.com


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## PeterT (Jan 12, 2022)

Just a side note. I like this style of general toolholder with a Vee in the base. They seem to grip rectangular tools no different than flat bottomed holders. But sometimes you have to grip cylindrical tooling & this is more secure than rolly-polly or yet another holder within a holder. A lot of insert type boring bars are already flattened & others are intended to reside in a socket block. That's different again. I just mean cylindrical things in general. I wouldn't make this a predominant set, but just saying a good one to try & have at your disposal..


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## Dabbler (Jan 12, 2022)

@YYCHM I actually was trying to tell you the dovetail angle remains the same but the distance between and the depth of the dovetails varies in an AXA, BXA and CXA.  I have one of all 3 tool posts in my shop now.


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## Dabbler (Jan 12, 2022)

PeterT said:


> a Vee in the base


I have a few of those but I also use the flat bottom ones, and the vee ones from offshore seem to be a little weaker when  taking really agressive cuts.  I suppose I have 2/3 flat bottom, and 1/3 vee bottom.

The real Aloris tool holder conquers this by making the vee type a little thicker at the base, something like .080 thicker.


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## PeterT (Jan 12, 2022)

Geez, maybe I will be eating my own words. Every dovetail spec I've seen has the 60-deg and some combination of the 3 dimensions: long dovetail length, short dovetail length, dovetail depth. Any 2 would fully define. From that you could work out dowel distances tangent to the dovetail if you made your own. It would be best if fillet radius was also stated, maybe let that pass because the toolpost wedge is usually generously chamferred.

Anyhoo, now I see this Shars picture up close. Short dovetail dimensioning from the crest of an undefined semi chamfer? Long dovetail dimensioning to the beginning of the radius? I hope this sketch is just intending to be helpful. Unfortunately confusing matters. You would be a brave person to send this to the shop machinist.


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## Dabbler (Jan 12, 2022)

Even the offshore makers of tool holders don't have this nailed.  @Tom Kitta has mentioned that he's had some fitting problems.  I, fortunately, have not had any problems with fit.

I am moving away from the Aloris system on my big lathe and going Dickson.  Dickson seems a lot more rigid, and suits the lathe better.  I'll move my real Aloris to my smaller lathe, and probably sell my offshore BXA tool post sometime in the distant future.


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## Susquatch (Jan 13, 2022)

TorontoBuilder said:


> I bought my QCTP from accusize as well as a lot of other tooling. I have found accusize to be good to deal with, but then I've always dealt with them in person. I too would ask them to exchange the tool post.



I have NEVER had a problem with Accusize returning or exchanging a product - even those I bought on Amazon. And I am too far to deal with them in person. Sometimes, they even upgrade me free of charge.


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## Susquatch (Jan 13, 2022)

ThirtyOneDriver said:


> This is "genius" - I can take what he did there and run w/ it... as I learn more I can go back and help myself out by performing the small detail operations (slots in the bottom of the QCTP that matches up w/ the 'springed' locator pin, etc.).
> 
> Thanks a ton guys for paying attention, remembering what reference material that could help me, and then sharing it - extremely more helpful than I ever imagined I would get from a 'forum'.
> 
> ...



I wouldn't be afraid of the discount conversation. They buy in volume and even get custom maker names on their stuff. They make good money. They will honour the original discount and it won't be a difficult conversation.

If you modify the BXA, it's yours forever.

Even though it can be done, I'd recommend against it. Parting tools will probably be a problem. Also, the tool holders themselves will be a problem. I have probably got 20 or more holders. I wouldn't really want to be cutting all of them down for a custom fit.

Edit - I see others have already covered most of this. But I didn't see anything to change my mind. I still recommend that you bite the bullet now and downsize the tool post to AXA. Don't underestimate how many tool holders you will end up with. 

Having said that, another option is to have both....... Costs more but might give you flexibility.


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## darrin1200 (Jan 13, 2022)

ThirtyOneDriver said:


> @darrin1200 - 2002-2018; field portion of my 3's regimental would have been ~ Feb '03 and 5's ~ Jan '06/'07 (we were still using Cherokee's as MRTs for our RRR, I recall really enjoying being the "driver" because of the snow) - Dom was my best ANCIL supervisor throughout my career.  I won the lottery w/ my back - happened while in KAF, super well documented even before an MO believed me (2010 injury, got to see medical attention for it ~'15/'16) and once believed I was referred to a civi-surgeon who essentially came back w/ a "you're ducked" assessment.  I have family ties to your trade if you were in before '85 (I doubt it, math is close but not likely).


I can pretty well guarantee I was one of your instructors on your 5’s. if not a direct instructor, I was one of the assessors. I wish I could say I remembered you, but over almost 5 years in regimental, I essentially taught an entire generation of techs. Those were good times. I actually joined in 85. Did my 3’s in the spring of 86. It’s nice to find another REME RAT.


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## ThirtyOneDriver (Jan 13, 2022)

I'm reading and processing everything - the BXA and AXA tool holders don't interchange with each other without modification (see pic - reference is in the file name - it's been posted somewhere in the forum before).





That being said - if I change the tool post to the AXA, all of the BXA tool holders will be too big.  Hopefully, someone else is learning a bunch while researching whether to put a BXA or and AXA QCTP on their Craftex CX709.  

On that note - I am hitting PAUSE until I can provide the 'hive mind' the best information - I'll spend some time in the shop/on SW, walk through my thoughts and the puzzle pieces so that I'm not being an askhole (soliciting for advice but not using it because I left out vital information/taking advice from too many spots that contradicts the best applicable options).

I do have a bias against returns - it's a personal mental block that I have; so, although it may be easiest solution in many, many ways, the mental block creates an obstacle that doesn't need to be there (no one's without their faults, right?).  There may actually be less effort to fabricate a whole new lathe than identify and repair whatever the psychology that's creating that particular challenge.

Hopefully, I'll have something posted late this afternoon that walks through my variables, the tools that I have on hand, the materials, what the measurements are, what info/options/paths/solutions I see from the advice given and enough GOOD information that I can take advantage of the experience and knowledge that the community has available.

Thanks


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## YotaBota (Jan 13, 2022)

Here's another option, you could always buy the AXA set for this lathe and put the BXA on a shelf for "when" (not if) you buy a lathe the BXA will fit. 



YYCHM said:


> @YotaBota are all of his tool holders compatible if he just exchanges the tool post?


I was gone when you posted the question but it looks like you were given the answer.


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## deleted_user (Jan 13, 2022)

Dabbler said:


> @YYCHM I actually was trying to tell you the dovetail angle remains the same but the distance between and the depth of the dovetails varies in an AXA, BXA and CXA.  I have one of all 3 tool posts in my shop now.



Thanks for clarifying how the posts are different. I should have been more specific in my post, I am usually more pedantic and specific.


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## Susquatch (Jan 13, 2022)

I understand the mental block. I don't have that particular block but I have plenty of my own. 

@Chicken lights was here over the weekend & pointed out one of mine. "Whether you think you can or think you can't, you are right.". I think I can't weld so I can't. But he thinks I can if I just lose the bad mindset. 

Not to worry about being an Askhole. Within limits, a wise man changes his mind often. Plus, I think we all get info and then take the time needed to process it. On top of that the process of collecting sufficient quantities the darn required monetary pieces of paper has a nasty way of adding more delays. 

And here is another option: 

Keep the BXA tool post for someday or even to play with. 

I'll buy all (or at least some) of your tool holders provided the price is competitive - therefore no returns required. I am expecting my high speed spindle motor (aka future tool post grinder) some time today and I plan to modify a BXA tool holder to hold it. That plus I never have enough tool holders......


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## PeterT (Jan 13, 2022)

@ThirtyOneDriver can you post the link corresponding to pic in post #39. They show a methodology to measure toolholders in order to pick the correct catalog part. But I'm hoping to extract the 'official' dovetail dimensions from that, which they don't show in the jpeg


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## ThirtyOneDriver (Jan 13, 2022)

Warning: this is going to be long and detailed w/ many pictures - there are notes on the majority of pictures but I will try to caption them so less reading is required.

I will do a second post immediately following this one w/ QCTP measurements... this is mainly an inventory of tool holders and tools.

250-201 holders w/ 5/8" tools




250-201 holders w/ 3/8" tools




Other 250 holders (250-202T w/ 3/4" parting tool, 250-207 parting tool that I need to order the insert for - bar(?) style?, 250-204 boring bar tool holder for 3/4 and 1" dia along w/ the boring bar set I got to go w/ it)








5/8" tool height = ~ 1 3/32" (27mm)











3/8" tool height = ~ 15/16" (~24mm)








Parting blades varied in height (see 5/8" tools for one) - the 3/4" version w/ the "tall" tool holder is show here





Boring bar tool height (I have NO experience w/ these, so this is VERY rough... I eyeball levelled the milled face, and the tool is clamped in the end of the tool holder {see first set of photos w/ boring bar inventory if needed}) - it looks like the height comes out to around 1" which is w/in the area everything else is - common sense check says that's a good thing and what I should expect.





Conclusion: for these tools to work as I have them setup, I need to be able to mount the QCTP base a minimum of 1 3/32" from the chuck axis (assumptions being made here, I'm a rocket appliance, not a rocket scientist).


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## ThirtyOneDriver (Jan 13, 2022)

BXA (wedge style) QCTP dimensions:





What really matters... OEM tool post height in relation to chuck axis (I know for a fact that the tool is not in the chuck square - I didn't expect the dimensions to be this close to one another so I felt I was w/in a tolerable amount of precision when I did the setup).








Taking into consideration the tooling heights from my previous post - IF I maintain this height, my 5/8" tooling will be right at/very close to lathe c/l (<---- that's the term you guys use, right?) - the 3/8" tooling should be ~ 1/10" BELOW lather c/l.   That's not a tonne but in my non-educated mind, I'm "under" which I think is the important part.

Here's photos of the tool slide for familiarization (Ali* website has ones very similar that are "AT320 76mm Center Height Metal Lathe Tool Rest" for $150).

Note that the dovetail is very imprecise and relies on (please name that chunk of metal for me, gib?) and screws to tighten it up.














The 1018 block that I bought previously to machine a new tool slide from beside the stripped tool slide.





The 60° dovetail is slightly off the OEM angle that was (scrapped?) into the tool slide - I have the t-slot tool that's just slightly undersize of what the slot would need to be (a second pass I guess).








This is the tooling that I have for the milling machine (CX611) so that you can guys have an understanding of capabilities (not mine of course  )




I took all of the information I'm currently presenting and duplicated the OEM tool slide in SolidWorks (not shown, less some details) before "adjusting" it as a hypothetical part. I AM GOING TO PRINT THIS PART on the 3D printer overnight as a cheap prototype (<$5). As a hypothetical part, it gave me something to create the blueprint from so I could share dimensions in an easy to follow manner.





The dimensions... all of the information... culminates here... remember, the 5/8" tooling on the BXA tool holders had a height of 1.09375", the 3/8" tools were at about 15/16"...





Thanks for sticking w/ me this far - I haven't decided whether or not to make this part yet - I'm soliciting for your thoughts on the dimensions (is there enough material in this hypothetical part?) and what kind of impact on my lathe capabilities would it create if I decided to make this part (like negatively).

Right now, my lathe work goals mostly revolve around being able to create bushings for different applications involved w/ the stock car stuff... bushings for the spherical bearings, pucks/bushings for welding fixtures, weldable inserts for round tubing, etc.  In the future I would like to create external and internal threads, bore, create internal grooves for snap rings, etc.

Everyone's help is appreciated - the effort I placed in this is a reflection of the respect I have for it.


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## ThirtyOneDriver (Jan 13, 2022)

PeterT said:


> @ThirtyOneDriver can you post the link corresponding to pic in post #39. They show a methodology to measure toolholders in order to pick the correct catalog part. But I'm hoping to extract the 'official' dovetail dimensions from that, which they don't show in the jpeg


Yes sir!  - it's a Dorian tool catalogue; https://www.doriantool.com/wp-content/uploads/dorian_tool_lathe_accessories_catalog.pdf


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## Susquatch (Jan 13, 2022)

ThirtyOneDriver said:


> Note that the dovetail is very imprecise and relies on (please name that chunk of metal for me, gib?) and screws to tighten it up.



Yes, that chunk of metal is called a Gibb. 

That is an incredible post. It's a lot to digest and a lot to comment on. You have put a lot of effort into it and that deserves a good response. 

It appears as though you got a 5/8 & a 3/8 indexable tool kit and bought a tool holder for each tool. Although I like to put my commonly used tools into a permanent tool holder of their own, I probably would not have done what you did. You probably won't use all the tools and it will be a waste of tool holders. That said, you will probably find and buy a plethora of individual tools that you will want a home for. When that time comes, it will be easy to take the ones you find that you don't use that much and put them back in the box to free up a tool holder. 

I bought a tool set like that a while back too. But I found that I only use one or two of the tools in it. They are simply not the best tools and I wish I had bought individual tools instead. But my needs are quite specific and perhaps others might have a different perspective on that. 

The majority of the tools you have look to be ok as far as tool height is concerned. My main concerns would relate to boring bars, cutoff tools, specialty tools, and in particular those one-off tools that you will acquire one at a time in the future. It is unlikely that they will all be like the ones in the tool sets that you have. 

Although the boring bar set that you have there will work, I believe they are intended to be used in a boring head on a mill - not on a lathe. I think that you will find that boring bars designed to be used on a lathe will perform a bit better than those will - especially for small holes or deep holes.

It is difficult to assess your new cross-slide design. Without a detailed side-by-side comparison. On first blush, it looks fine. How are you going to make that? And don't forget to take oil galleries into account. Lastly, if you are going to make something like that, why not put t-bolt slots into it for the future? That's a feature I wish my lathe had. 

Ill re-read your post and maybe comment more in the morning.


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## ThirtyOneDriver (Jan 13, 2022)

@Susquatch
- I fluked into having a tool holder per tool - I bought a "set" because of the pricing and added on a number of the standard tool holders
- there was a crappier (the 3/8" tools) that I bought from BB when I bought the machines; I trusted the 'knowledgeable' staff and then bought the 5/8" when I bought the BXA - the 5/8" tools seemed like the right heft
- the boring bar set was a "didn't know what I didn't know" deal - I wanted boring bars for a part that I plan on making soon and was doing the whole Zoolander "how did they get that into the computer" deal - open to suggestions on how to choose what I should look at for boring bars - I'm not afraid to buy a boring head for the mill later... I just don't know enough about them at this point
- mock-up of the tool slide is being printed on the 3D printer right now so that I can place the items side-by-side for comparison at some point in the morning

Thanks for your input (like seriously, not factiously).


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## PeterT (Jan 13, 2022)

Not sure if this would work for you dimensionally, but could the existing part be taken down something like so, or a bit deeper for that matter & end up with the correct datum height for the tool post? 
There is nothing special about the Tee-plate that is typically used on these TP's. Ultimately its a threaded hole for the center stud to engage. That's pretty much what your existing one accomplishes, just anchored differently. Actually I'd go a step further & suggest milling the big Tee slot would result in a weaker part vs. leaving it more solid-ish. The post may have to be modded to suite, but that's easy turning.

To play safe & if the price of replacement slide is reasonable $, you could sacrifice that. I can't imagine the material is hardened. Then the slot, dovetails, gib screws... all that already done.


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## ThirtyOneDriver (Jan 14, 2022)

@PeterT - I'm also thinking that if I put the t-slot in that I'm removing too much material (part of drawing it was to be able to see/imagine/measure what material I would have... I love SolidWorks in that respect). - another compound slide from (near duplicate) from AliExpress is $150 CAD... it's not a bad idea...

^ *From here forward*, despite pictures etc. I am *not* planning on having the *t-slot*

Here's how the mock-up went w/ the 3D printed part *'Tool Slide v2'* (there's issues w/ the print, I threw this into parameters for a production run of smaller parts that's been working flawlessly for about a week)... ... just in case anyone isn't following... the 3D part is a sacrificial piece of material in this case as I figure out what I want/need.



 




The tool points are on the same x and y coordinates for their close up.  The tooling is the 5/8" that I've been using as my preferred/desired baseline.

There'll be a follow-up with adjustments once I get my morning going... I can't express the gratitude I have to be able to share and get feedback.


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## ThirtyOneDriver (Jan 14, 2022)

Refined idea/design *'Tool Slide v3'*... reminder that the dimension from yesterday's measurement of the 5/8" tools in the BXA tool holder was 1.09375" - this tool slide increases that dimension by 0.05" but there is "room" to increase that (tool slide v4) (someone smart could help me determine how much material to maintain between the dove tail slot on the underside and the QCTP and I can alter 3D model to that).




 




'Tool Slide v3' and 'Tool Slide v2' share the same 1.14" dimension from Lathe C/L to QCTP base/tool slide top surface.


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## ThirtyOneDriver (Jan 14, 2022)

*'Tool Slide v4' *increases the critical tool slide surface to lathe C/L by an additional 0.20" (now 1.29" - OEM was 1.09").





There looks like there's enough meat between the dovetail cut and the top surface.  @PeterT - this is what the tool slide would look like if I did exactly what you described with the diagram you made... which is the same as a bunch of other, smarter (than I), individuals have also described.

My apologies for needing to work through the problem to catch up to you guys.

This is where Tool Slide v4 puts me visually... (v4 is the same height as the unused end of the tool slide)



 




My 'tallest' tool





Consensus... I'm leaning towards machining the v4 tool slide from the chunk of 1018 I have (pictured in one of the earlier, longer threads).


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## PeterT (Jan 14, 2022)

So just eyeballing your picture, your cutting tool tip is residing below lathe center axis with toolholder bottomed out. So you seem to be well positioned once the toolholder is jacked up into position. That looks to be about the same distance if you were to plane off the stair bump. That looks to be about the nominal fattest toolholder shank you can accommodate. Maybe other than the bump knurler, which are not very kind to smaller lathes anyway & would be better replaced with scissor style. So what am I missing, why cant you modify the existing slide? Imean if you want to make one, I get that. But is there a dimensional reason the existing cannot be modded?

Depending on your 1018 stock size, be prepared that it might stress relieve a little bit. Best to take equal amounts off. There may be better material choices but I get that's what you have & want to try.

Re Solidworks, I'm guessing by your intro you are getting discount for military service? (bravo btw). Just curious have you heard any news that they are swapping that out for the 99$ Maker version? I've heard that's the case for EAA discount full version, will go bye-bye if it hasn't been implemented already.


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## ThirtyOneDriver (Jan 14, 2022)

@PeterT - no dimensional reasoning, more a confidence (or lack there of) issue - if I don't cut into the original, my lathe stays functional despite how long it takes me to work on it in the mill, etc.  I admit bias towards machining a part and that exists because one way or another, I need to gain experience - going in straight lines seems like easy(ier) experience... ? possibly?  If there's a better material to use (could make one version out of aluminum/whatever material to gain experience and have a 'back-up' plan; AND THEN machine the OEM version to match as you suggest) that would be better than 1018 I can use this somewhere else/for another project.  I was in a hurry before Christmas and scrounging for supplies because I thought I'd be working on this when all the stores were closed.  Wasted material/broken tooling (of course, try to avoid that) won't affect the food on my table and I see them similar to paying tuition to learn at a school... although metal costs have sky-rocketed, I still think the material cost is cheap relative to the value of the knowledge/experience (in short, I'll pay more/again to get better experience).

You're correct that I have SW through the Veteran program - I paid for the maker version for a year because COVID had jammed up my ability to meet the "proof" requirements for the Vet program; I'm not sure what the differences were of what I had and what I have now.  Doubtful that SW would get rid of the Veteran program as I've been told the owner(?) is a Vet but as I re-read what you posted, it's possible they roll it back to a more basic version.  I don't think I bothered registering all of the modules.


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## ThirtyOneDriver (Jan 14, 2022)

You guys challenge me with great questions/comments.  @PeterT, I'm confident that I have a "full" version... I've just been using what I need to use and haven't done any exploring since I installed the 2021 version.  I was surprised when I did some more digging... here's a screen shot of the add-ins.


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## PeterT (Jan 14, 2022)

Re the slide, that's where I was wondering out loud how much a replacement part slide would cost. If it were cheap & readily available, just do the dirty deed on that. I won't speculate on either cheapness or availabiliy though. Guessing its may not be something they inventory but some of the other forums I frequent have indicated good turnaround. Maybe they have perpetual parts shipments coming & its just a matter of specifying what you want. Worth an inquiry. You may need to know that for another part in the future anyways.

Aluminum would not be a great choice IMO. I guess we've come full circle, look out 1018 here we come LOL. Not sure on your stock size but if it can be a bit wider & assist with providing more TP footprint contact, that would be a good thing. Right now with the bigger TP & compound at an angle, looks like you have unsupported overhang. Not the end of the world but if you have a clean sheet of paper, bigger is better.

Re SW, I think before the Maker version came out mid/late-2021? EAA was like the Military service promo. It was a full version no different than a paid seat, registered & installed on your machine, files stayed on your machine etc. But of course awesome price. Now they have been rolling out 99USD Maker. I believe first as a standalone offering, but also stated it will replace the EAA. I cant seem to find where I read that Military & Education as well. ie. anything other than a full license seat will only get Maker. What might be confusing matters is what you paid for full might just be matching the Maker price & renewal/reset is forthcoming. Functionally there will be some operating differences. Sorry for the tangent, this got chatted a bit in another SW/CAD post. I was just curious.


			https://www.solidworks.com/support/community-download#no-back
		



__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/SolidWorks/comments/rvwbl4



			https://www.solidworks.com/solution/company-type/makers


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## ThirtyOneDriver (Jan 15, 2022)

So a flier came in the mail last night that reaffirmed my desire to keep the OEM tool slide unmodified... it had bigger lathes in it.  There were at least three members who mentioned that I'd have the desire to upgrade - it won't happen right away, but they were correct.  Keeping the original tool slide unmodified will enable me to sell the lathe "complete".

@PeterT - I have 'Tool Slide v4' printed and mocked up - the QCTP and the tool slide dimensions "match"










Help me follow - what's the benefit of a wider (let's say y-axis referring to the picture above/depth) tool slide? - I did notice on the mock-up that the tool holder tail hangs off of the tool slide and is unsupported (I don't think this would be an issue, but I'm open to input).


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## ThirtyOneDriver (Jan 15, 2022)

Another possible solution based off earlier suggestions (like the YouTube video posted); an adapter to change the OEM tool post hardware to one that will work w/ the BXA QCTP.

Seems like an easier and quicker interim solution (probably could have had it made w/ all of the work put into posting... my shop is uncomfortably cold and needs the propane reconnected and I've been getting over the virus this week) and I could break it down into smaller portions (spacer bushings instead of bore) to make it even easier.




... I'm still processing one solution at a time ... it's not the most efficient method but I'm still growing


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## PeterT (Jan 15, 2022)

This is an exaggerated sketch but just trying to depict the narrower top slide body just visually eyeing your stock relative to existing top slide. Maybe its more of a photo thing that makes it look smaller. I didn't read through all your dimensions. But anyways the unsupported remaining (white triangle) area is what I was saying ideally should be minimized. What dictates the TP block angle is you may want to have your compound set at a certain preferred angle, but your TP still needs to be close to square to the work, so the rotation is the byproduct. Hope this makes sense. If I'm way off base on the size, just ignore. Thats all I was trying to say. Ya see how all these issues kind of stack up & just getting a smaller TP kind of isn't too crazy huh? LOL


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## Susquatch (Jan 15, 2022)

ThirtyOneDriver said:


> ..... and I've been getting over the virus this week) and....... I'm still processing one solution at a time ... it's not the most efficient method but I'm still growing



One of the symptoms of the new Omicron varient is Brain Fog. It happened to me. I could actually feel my IQ drop off the proverbial Cliff. Prolly not the best time to be analysing tool post alternatives......


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## Susquatch (Jan 15, 2022)

PeterT said:


> This is an exaggerated sketch but just trying to depict the narrower top slide body just visually eyeing your stock relative to existing top slide. Maybe its more of a photo thing that makes it look smaller. I didn't read through all your dimensions. But anyways the unsupported remaining (white triangle) area is what I was saying ideally should be minimized. What dictates the TP block angle is you may want to have your compound set at a certain preferred angle, but your TP still needs to be close to square to the work, so the rotation is the byproduct. Hope this makes sense. If I'm way off base on the size, just ignore. Thats all I was trying to say. Ya see how all these issues kind of stack up & just getting a smaller TP kind of isn't too crazy huh? LOL



That's too funny. I noticed the same thing but decided it was an illusion so I said nothing. I'm glad that you did.

And ya, the more support the better. It might be a huge block of steel, but even the biggest block bends. It is not if, it's only how much.

Ive been noodling a stand alone tool post dedicated to parting. Basically the tool post is also the tool holder. I don't want any unsupported space under the post assembly at all. I want all the rigidity I can get. It would be great if I didn't have to resort to parting upside down in reverse when the going gets tough.


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## ThirtyOneDriver (Jan 15, 2022)

You are correct @PeterT, stuff does stack and the suggestion of going to a smaller QCTP does make sense.  I'm very lucky in the sense that my time is 'free', i.e. if I spend more time on this, it hasn't hurt my ability to make an income, etc. (pension) - if I placed a value on time then the most sensible course of action would have been to do exactly as you guys encouraged (smaller QCTP).

@Susquatch; between O-virus and attention span/memory issues (dropped on my head too many times) I've noticed that some of my writing is difficult to follow at best... I'm trying.  The "edit" tool is great so no-one quote my crap so I can go back and tweak it in the future!  

White space - I'm following - *IF *I cut myself a new 'Tool Slide v4' I can move the tapped hole for the QCTP bolt/securing hardware away from the nose(?) of the tool post (far left in your attachment, QCTP could potentially be mounted more to the right).
Dimensions on the depth of the OEM tool slide and any modified/manufactured versions (or the block of 1018 I have) only differ by 0.062"... as pointed out, it's an illusion if the OEM tool slide appears different in depth (y axis) than any mock-up/the 1018 block.


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## PeterT (Jan 15, 2022)

Ya, I've kind of come full circle on parting, but maybe that's just me. Smaller diameters & friendlier alloys, sure, go for it. I have a band saw & it's purpose in life is to lop off material quickly & efficiently on a pretty inexpensive & long life blade. Why beaver through a log on a lathe. Grooving, recessing & parting to a dimension is a different matter of course. But every opportunity to remove the part & saw it, I do. Often times parting is rough sizing & has to be machined again on that end anyways, which means the part is removed. Not always but many times. If its a big diameter piece like say 3-5" it is outside parting range stick-out so I'll often leave it chucked, clamp the chuck+part assembly in the saw vise & lop it off that way. Everything held securely & square.  Just beware chips migrating into jaw works but have an easy fix for that


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## ThirtyOneDriver (Jan 15, 2022)

I'm fully committed to the BXA tooling now... I spent $6 on filament to make these holder holders. (jokes)

They're the same as one of the members posted about somewhere else on this forum: source was Thingiverse





*'Tool Slide v4'* mock-up - addressing the "white space"







Look okay?


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## YYCHM (Jan 15, 2022)

I wouldn't trust this to provide an indication of your spindle CL lol  Put your dead center in the tailstock and use that for reference.


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## ThirtyOneDriver (Jan 15, 2022)

*More newb questions: *cutting coolant/spray?
I haven't run across this yet on the forum and I'm sure it's been addressed... I burnt up an annular cutter a couple of weeks ago because (I'm me) I was impatient, used the wrong cutting speed because I was impatient and didn't have things locked down properly, failed to look up info on the cutter that would have told me to use a cooling spray (because I was impatient, of course), and when it started turning blue and sparking I figured it was related to where/what I was using it on and impatiently pushed through (good thing I'm not employed by anyone here, eh?).  So; back to cooling spray... I've made the assumption that the spec sheet refers to using more coolant than just a can of WD-40.  

Fuch's Lubricants (local to Cambridge) sponsored a regional racing series last year so I looked at their products first and spec'd an all purpose cutting fluid (EcoCool 711 C) that is "water miscible". (10-20:1 mix ratio)

I've Amazon'd a cheap coolant pump and intended on making/buying (I need some pan and brake and TIG practice) a coolant tank (see photos).



 




My horizontal bandsaw would likely use the cutting coolant the most unless I upgrade the CX611 to CNC - I assume the possibility of retrofitting the milling machine to a CNC is a variable that should be shared for best advice.
I hate tripping on shit... the milling machine and bandsaw are in the middle of the floor right now but I have intent to move the mill against a wall soon - air supply to the mill or lathe shouldn't be an issue once I set them up in their permanent locations - it would be preferable to go to an electric pump that I could piggy back my 110v band saw off of so I have one chord but that "improvement" realistically isn't worth the time/effort and would be a couple years off in a best case scenario... the bandsaw is an interim piece of equipment and hopefully will be replaced in 5 to 10 yrs (if it lasts that long) - bandsaw is a CX116 (https://www.busybeetools.com/products/metal-bandsaw-5in-with-swivel-csa-cx116.html) - the cabinet below it is hollow but difficult to access.

Input/ideas/suggestions welcome encouraged.


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## ThirtyOneDriver (Jan 15, 2022)

@YYCHM - Craig, that would be soo much easier.  D'oh!


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## Dabbler (Jan 15, 2022)

An *accurate* way to measure your centre height is to turn (in any chuck) any known diameter as measured by a micrometer.  It only need be circular, not any particular dimension.  You measure down to your second datum point and subtract half of the diameter. 

You will always know how far UP to go from that datum point.  This is how a lathe standard is made.  If your datum is a flat surface, you can use gauge blocks to build up to the bottom of the turned piece and you can get a sub-tenths measurement, but that is piffling about.


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## Dabbler (Jan 15, 2022)

ThirtyOneDriver said:


> I burnt up an annular cutter a couple of weeks ago


Sorry to hear that.  I use annular cutters all the time now, but I mix up some soluable cutting oil into a Zep sprayer (a decent quality sprayer that is cheap) and squirt the heck out of it.  To make it harder to freeze, instead of using 40:1 i use about 10:1 and it works very well for annular cutters, and it doesn't freeze at -5 which is what my shop gets to in the winter sometimes...


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## ThirtyOneDriver (Jan 15, 2022)

I have never taken so many pictures in my life as this week.

@Dabbler - a zep spraying makes soo much sense, thanks.

@YYCHM - I "fixed" the mistake you pointed out and am now using the tail stock to measure C/L w/





Dabbler - so in my case, (I 100% fluked into this btw, I just grabbed the nearest piece of stock not even thinking that it could potentially be too big and lucky for me, it wasn't) the diameter of my piece is 2.261" and I was able to fit 0.005" worth of feeler gauges in (I may have been able to get the 0.006" if I had deburred the edge, practicing theory here) (don't judge the feeler gauges... they've been in my toolbox for over 20 years to gap sparkplugs and are the only imperial ones I own)...



 


 


 


 



Therefore my Lathe Center Height is 1 7/64" from the top of my... from my... (the tool slide is only a component of this) cross slide(?)... right?... which also means my inaccurate way of measuring got close to the right number, again, pure fluke because I'm learning pretty hard here.


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## ThirtyOneDriver (Jan 15, 2022)

I've also been trying to do my own homework here... I've made it partially through this book and I'm trying to read as many of the forums as possible.




Everyone's help and advice is really appreciated.


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## Susquatch (Jan 15, 2022)

ThirtyOneDriver said:


> Fuch's Lubricants (local to Cambridge) sponsored a regional racing series last year so I looked at their products first and spec'd an all purpose cutting fluid (EcoCool 711 C) that is "water miscible". (10-20:1 mix ratio)



Some use a spray, or a mister. I use a dropper bottle. It's actually a vegetable oil dispenser my wife got. When it was almost empty (I got impatient), I went and got her a new bottle of oil, dumped the old one, and filled it with my favorite cutting oil. "Vipers Venom" available on Amazon. This stuff is great for all ferrous metals. It's sticky and doesn't drop off easily. I love it. It's a high sulphur oil so it smells great too..... 

I use WD40 with the straw that comes with it for aluminium. 

I prefer the dropper and fine straw cuz it gets the fluid where I want it.


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## ThirtyOneDriver (Jan 16, 2022)

Went looking for the Viper's Venom on amazon.ca w/ no luck - I saw it on some other sites and have the window still open to revisit later.


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## ThirtyOneDriver (Jan 16, 2022)

This being buried on the fourth/fifth page of an intro is convenient for me - there could be other places to post it, but I'd rather not start any new threads.

Again, so very thankful to have found this group of people - I've needed someone(s) to bounce ideas off of, to share my success and share my fails with.  If you haven't caught on yet - staying focused is a challenge for me, I'm either struggling or super super engaged to the point where I'm forgetting to eat and the back injury makes it really hard to get in the state of 'hyper focus'.
I've been planning on building a shop to build racecars in for at least 24 years and am finally getting to do it - that also means I have 24 years of ideas/plans/goals to work through.  I've written all of these out for myself previously and it's been cool to see how accurate some of the accomplishments have been a few years later having completely forgotten that I had previously planned/researched (the lathe an milling machine I bought were the same ones I hypothetically decided on in 2017).

So here's a list of SOME of the stuff I'm currently pursuing; I'll post pictures of the shop, equipment, toys, etc. and continue to ask silly questions.

*Shop build:*
Bathroom install
    - trench water and new electrical into shop (100 amp shop panel has already been upgraded) (new electrical includes separate conduit for low voltage wiring)
Complete protective framing and paneling (plastic/vinyl diaper style insulation on a steel beam building; paneling to protect from sparks/heat but has other advantages)
Build barrier wall to help contain machining mess/create a "clean" assembly area for automotive parts (differential assy, calipers, master cylinders, other components)
Install racking on wall for tube lengths
Propane tank reinstallation
   - add leveling material, level, compact
   - propane tank installation
   - gas line extension and hook-up
Future: organize and customize 40' sea container that was recently installed (created the propane tank project)

*Shop equipment:*
48" high scale/load cell pads (future capability of compressing the suspension against itself by placing beams under the load cell pads and drawing the beams up to the frame creating force but not weight - may or may not use load cells in the process... higher capacity racing scale systems, or at least high enough to pull against, are about $5k and there's other things that I'd like to prioritize)
    - assists in alignment... we're trying to align the car to create the most amount of grip in the corners; if we align it (kind of like measuring using a base plate) how it's going to run down the straightaways we're not being very accurate
    - identifies binds/flexes (we have a better chance of identifying chassis flex and the inherent inaccuracy created by it)
    - these have been built and used, but not finished or prepared for the "pull-down" aspect
48" box and pan brake (needs mobile base fabricated)
CX 611 milling machine (needs mobile base fabricated)
    - DRO
    - power feed
    - coolant system?
    - CNC retrofit?
    - learn to maintain and operate it
    - quill mechanism broken/never operated properly - determine if it's needed and repair if necessary (something to do w/ the fine feed, wouldn't disengage)
CX 709x lathe (needs mobile base fabricated)
    - install QCTP tool post
    - DRO
    - learn to maintain and operate
    - replace motor to enable more spindle speeds/RPMs?
CX 116
    - coolant system?
    - maintain

*by mobile bases I mean something like a 2"x2" tube frame w/ levelling feet that I can attach the equipment to and move if it's necessary; they don't need to have casters on them because they likely won't be moved very often... (exception the box and pan brake) ability to move them is an "in case"... raising them to more appropriate working heights, providing the equipment w/ stable bases and the ability to level are the necessary tasks

Lincoln 225 TIG/Stick
   - repair gas solenoid (ordered)
   - fab mobile cart
   - distant future upgrade (Aspect/inverter ~300amp AC/DC TIG)
Lincoln 180 MIG
   - replace it's version of a mother board
   - send it to Dad so he has a welder
   - distant future upgrade to (ideally) an LE 260 a 256 may be another option
Lincoln 275 Plasma
   - cart/add to 225 cart
Lincoln 180 MIG (#2)
   - fabricate cart
oxy acy bottles/torch
   - fabricate cart
*I like things on wheels... many, many carts apparently
JD2 Model 3 bender
   - mod stand
   - have 1.75" x 6.5 clr dies
   - 1" dies have been ordered and shipped
   - design organization for air/hydraulic pump and hydraulic ram (if needed)
12 ton hydraulic shop press
   - machine adapter for press brake finger and mate
   - fabricate mobile base?
Hoist
   - machine internal threaded adapter to replace bent one
Chassis table/frame jig/surface plate (7'x16', 6"channel topped w/ 5/16" plate)
   - fab/install leveling feet/legs (machine jacks? - needs enough height for hoist legs to go under - risk of breaking/bending leveling legs if they protrude below bottom plane when moving w/ tractor)
   - fab/install attachments to facilitate moving w/ tractor (weighs 2700#)
   - score/grind/cut/some method permanent center line
   - score/grind/cut/some method permanent front and rear axle lines (needs to be square, I'd like to avoid protrusion from surface)
Rearend fabricating fixture (fab mobile base)
Spindle fabricating/measuring fixture
   - design and fabricate
Control arm fabrication fixture
   - design and fabricate
Other misc. shop stuff as needed (brackets, hangers, etc.)

*Car builds:*
'96 Harley - repair/rebuild carb
'71 C10 - retromod build for wife; complete body, move firewall, 6.0L LS swap, build frame, tubular upper and lower control arms, Ford 9"... $15k for parts set aside, most parts in shop/sea can
'69 C20 - power steering box rebuild, rear brakes rebuild - sold
Street Stock - '88 Monte Carlo based stock car build for friend's 11 yr old son - may/may not happen - responsible for frame, cage and body fabrication
Late Model - brand new (built in 2018, still bare) NASCAR Pinty's Series chassis from reputable builder (great deal... bought at cost of material essentially) - build for self
   - I have majority of components to assemble but this is just a cage/frame and needs a lot of fabrication
   - engine I have/willing to spend $ for is underpowered but has 150# weight advantage (minimum weight of the car is only 2850# instead of 3000#) ... considerable effort must be made to take advantage of the weight savings and make the smaller engine package competitive (meaning lightening parts where possible by machining)
   - can make molds for vacuum forming composite parts using big 3D printer (recently purchased)  (friend makes composite windmill blades & components for luxury yachts)
   - creating data logging Arduino to replace gauges w/ LEDs (engineer friend assisting when he's in country) (race car drivers don't read gauges... different coloured idiot lights work better; green=good, red=bad, orange=concern, blue=cold)  lighter and 1/10th the cost of gauges  - data logging capability may be limited to practice use only, would provide data to establish chassis heights, etc. for pull down system described above
   - build rearend in previously fabricated fixture
   - build own lower and upper control arms, possibly own center link, idler arm and pinion arm
   - modify/build other parts that I can't be specific about (welding, plasma CNC cutting, machining, 3D printing, vacuum forming - necessary equipment may need fabricated for these)
Crew Cab dually - replace/repair (San Diego trip for wedding in future best opportunity for replace)
Open car trailer - purchase/modify for racing (had commissioned one 2 years ago, fabricator kept deposit and flaked)
Enclosed car trailer - empty into sea can - have reskinned, re-axled (connection teaches trailer repairs, needs work for demo/practical)
Dirt bike(s) - mine's at friend's shop for engine enhancements, wife's (same model) needs seasonal maintenance
Track car project - back burner'd while life happens - project w/ friend... crazy ideas using cheap, readily available, reliable components - a "f" you to another friend type of project "can't be done" he says

Plus, plus, plus


----------



## ThirtyOneDriver (Jan 16, 2022)

Shop pics:

2018 when we bought it - completely stripped it afterwards - took a month of scrubbing, etc. to get all the oil out of the floor



 




Progression (in orderish)


----------



## ThirtyOneDriver (Jan 16, 2022)

C20 - Harley (bed of truck and background of Petty tribute car; I wrapped and decaled the tribute car)


----------



## ThirtyOneDriver (Jan 16, 2022)

C10, stock car repairs (front and rear frame sections [clips]), Ford 9" repairs/builds


----------



## ThirtyOneDriver (Jan 16, 2022)

Recent stockcar cosmetic jobs (design and apply graphics, both cars came black)


----------



## ThirtyOneDriver (Jan 16, 2022)

Redesign and build of a Street Stock this past summer for a friend... tried expanding my sheet metal skill sets by using a bead roller to form the RF fender.  Forgot to take pictures as it got finished up... thing looked bad@$$... the unsquareness of the nose, roof, etc. was intentional for aerodynamics (always turning left).


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## ThirtyOneDriver (Jan 16, 2022)

My 2022/23 car








The remainder are other random projects/toys that I've been working on - a friend's tailgate was rotted out so I did a repair... never doing autobody/painting in my shop again... hated how dusty everything got.  There's anti-seize in the tool cart to prove that I know what a lubricant is.


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## ThirtyOneDriver (Jan 16, 2022)

Apologies for the multiple posts; I'm waiting on an assistant to arrive so I can work on things in the cold.

Tomorrow, I want to remount my vise to the milling machine - this week, I've learned that I don't necessarily need to mount the swivel base (which is cool).  Last time I mounted it, I used an edge finder to ensure the fixed jaw was (relatively, it's only an edge finder) parallel w/ the y-axis - I'd like to do the same BUT I want to improve how I determined (squareness?) the accuracy - my goal this week is to get some milling practice by making a square block from material (chunk already cut off the end of the 1018 I've been eyeing up for the tool slide project).
I'm sure there's videos, but I have a hard time staying focused when on YouTube... 

My idea right now is to place one of my long levels in the vise (I haven't decided if this is a good idea yet, the thought of clamping makes me slightly nervous) so that I have a "true" edge to measure off of and by running the table out to the ends of it's travel, it'll give me a (I think you guys refer to it as accuracy) broader baseline to measure from.

Is there a better way (well there is) - could someone recommend a better way to do this, or somewhere to read up on it?  I don't really have any "material" that i would consider true outside of the level.


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## Six O Two (Jan 17, 2022)

I think you're asking about a process called 'tramming' your vise. It's a pretty simple procedure once you get used to it, but you'll need a dial indicator and a way to hold it. No need for the level, just use the back side of your vise jaw as a reference against the travel of your ways and get them to run parallel.
Surely there's hours and hours of youtube and forum posts on how to do it, but here's the first one that came in my results.


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## Susquatch (Jan 17, 2022)

Tramming the vise is easy - lots of videos on line as @Six O Two says.  BUT....... Tramming the vise is useless if the mill itself is not trammed. You need to do that first.

I am actually working on what I will call an invention right now for tramming a mill. I won't be patenting it so I don't care who copies the idea or if they do. It's just plain old fun for me.

You can currently buy a two gauge tram tool to tram the the bed. They work well. But you have to tram the axis separately. I want to tram the bed in both x and y (nod) with three gauges simultaneously.

Lots of discussion and debate already. I really should start a new thread on it but you can follow along here:









						Spindle square
					

Speaking of milling heads that are difficult to tram: the Huron style ones are apparently the worst because it is hard (impossible?) to isolate the X and Y directions from one another because of the oblique mounting flange. This is where a calibrated tramming tool shines.     I'd be willing to...




					canadianhobbymetalworkers.com
				












						trlvn's terrific travelling RF30 tale
					

I'm wondering if those bolts were originally metric? My LC-30 has metric fasteners.   I suppose that is possible. But mine are 1/2-13 the same as Craig's. So between you and I we are batting 50/50.   It would be interesting to see the measurements of the bolts using the wire system just to see...




					canadianhobbymetalworkers.com
				












						Bridgeport Mill Tachometer
					

Here's one for you guys (@CalgaryPT will appreciate this as well) LOL.  CO calls me and tells me the Regiment is refreshing their IMP supply (He knows I like to use them for my mountain sheep hunting trips).  I beetled down to HQ and sure as heck there were stacks and stacks of unexpired IMPs...




					canadianhobbymetalworkers.com
				




The first one is prolly the most discussion (and debate).


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## SomeGuy (Jan 17, 2022)

Wow, I love your garage, I wish I had that much space to work!

Also, some really cool stuff you've worked on in the past.


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## ThirtyOneDriver (Jan 17, 2022)

Thanks @SomeGuy, I've worked hard/been lucky - those are all projects since the start of 2019 and I've slowed down quite a bit since 2015ish - I'd like to do more and with the advice from this group of guys I think that's possible.









						Spindle square
					

Speaking of milling heads that are difficult to tram: the Huron style ones are apparently the worst because it is hard (impossible?) to isolate the X and Y directions from one another because of the oblique mounting flange. This is where a calibrated tramming tool shines.     I'd be willing to...




					canadianhobbymetalworkers.com
				




@Susquatch  - trying to visualize your simultaneous triple triangle tram tango - I think I understand what I need to do to ensure spindle square to the x and y; I just need to look through what pieces I have w/ the indicators that have followed me home... I have gathered some stuff so I could assemble 9" rearends and then a buddy volunteered to do that specific portion when I had fitment issues (supplied chinese made parts that weren't machined enough).

I'm still working out how to ensure the table travel is square to the head(?)/spindle(?) but think if I can get that first task completed it'll give me enough experience to lean on that I could figure it out.

Between clearing snow this morning for the neighbourhood (John Deere loader tractor that's been in some of the pics, winning hearts and minds of the neighbours) and learning more about this stuff, I haven't gotten started on machining that material - obviously now that I know I should (and kind of how) square the head/table, etc. there's been a couple of steps added.

@Six O Two  - I appreciate you sharing the video... YouTube is a place I avoid because I don't know who to trust on there and I can waste a ton of time looking/getting sidetracked


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## ThirtyOneDriver (Jan 17, 2022)

You guys trying to convince me to downsize to AXA should have been sharing this with me!








						AXA Tool Holders....  What do you think?  Worth a try?
					

there does see a big spread on prices....just order this https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B09MQYTTYQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1  $35 for post and holders...granted next size down (OXA), but still.   I was going to buy from Aliexpress until I saw that.  I never cared much...




					canadianhobbymetalworkers.com
				




I'm good though    lol


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## ThirtyOneDriver (Jan 17, 2022)

@Six O Two - I'm watching YT now... "This Old Tony" is okay?  Seems good, but I don't know what I don't know...

He time travels so I figure he has to be pretty smart.


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## Susquatch (Jan 17, 2022)

ThirtyOneDriver said:


> @Six O Two - I'm watching YT now... "This Old Tony" is okay?  Seems good, but I don't know what I don't know...
> 
> He time travels so I figure he has to be pretty smart.



I'm not really a fan of You Tube either. But sometimes they are ok. It's just that sifting through the crap takes more time than I want to spend. Ive never been particularly thrilled with this old Tony or with Keith Rucker - both of whom are pretty popular. 

I do like a lot of Joe Pieczynski's stuff but not everything. He did do a few alignment videos but I don't think he did one on vice tramming.


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## SomeGuy (Jan 17, 2022)

ThirtyOneDriver said:


> @Six O Two - I'm watching YT now... "This Old Tony" is okay?  Seems good, but I don't know what I don't know...
> 
> He time travels so I figure he has to be pretty smart.



This Old Tony is fantastic entertainment...some of his earlier videos were actually good to learn machining stuff but lately he's been too CNC and weird projects.

Abom79, AvE, Clickspring, NYC CNC, Mr. Pete 222 are some of the other popular ones I know of.


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## Six O Two (Jan 17, 2022)

If you can master This Old Tony's metal cutting technique, my hat's off to you... I've been trying, but all I seem to end up with is bloody knuckles.


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## ThirtyOneDriver (Jan 18, 2022)

@Six O Two - he's made references to his technique/shenanigans but other than slipping on a banana, I haven't seem them yet - I went back to the start/his oldest and have it playing in the back ground in order... I skipped over a few...

This 10 second piece where he's aligning his "reference rail" to the machining head(?)  (<---- the brackets and question mark mean I'm unsure about the terminology) seems similar in theory to aligning the x and y travel to the head (at least, how I'm perceiving it, not necessarily how it's being done). 




What I currently own for dial indicator related items.





The smallest seems like it could be mounted to the spindle in a collet/chuck.

I may have royalty visiting later today so I have a bunch of things that I need to get done - I'll get to play with this stuff later.


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## Susquatch (Jan 18, 2022)

ThirtyOneDriver said:


> The smallest seems like it could be mounted to the spindle in a collet/chuck.



Not really. You could put it in a chuck on the tailstock but it's hard to use that way for much other than dialing in the bore of a part in a 4jaw chuck. In a moving spindle it would be subjected to way too much centrifugal force and you couldn't read it anyway. In a manually rotated spindle it might be used to square up a vise. But mounted to an arm on a spindle it becomes much more useful. 

All those different attachment systems on the indicators are really just different ways to hold them in an adjustable framework like your indicator holders. For some reason there are multiple standards for that. For example either of the two indicator holders you have can be used with either of the indicators you have in multiple ways. 

I know that you have already invested a small fortune in your equipment, but I was recently pointed to a NOGA holder that I LOVE by other forum members. It is a two way holder with both a base and end fine tune. If I had my life to live over, one of these would have been my first and perhaps my only indicator holder. They come in three sizes. Best to watch for sales. 






						Articulated Holders FAT & FAB
					






					www.noga.com
				




The short version of the indicators goes like this:  The plunger type indicator has more range but exerts a little force on the part that can disturb the part you are measuring. The needle indicator has less range but exerts neglidgeable force on the part. Both have their uses.


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## SomeGuy (Jan 18, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Not really. You could put it in a chuck on the tailstock but it's hard to use that way for much other than dialing in the bore of a part in a 4jaw chuck. In a moving spindle it would be subjected to way too much centrifugal force and you couldn't read it anyway. In a manually rotated spindle it might be used to square up a vise. But mounted to an arm on a spindle it becomes much more useful.
> 
> All those different attachment systems on the indicators are really just different ways to hold them in an adjustable framework like your indicator holders. For some reason there are multiple standards for that. For example either of the two indicator holders you have can be used with either of the indicators you have in multiple ways.
> 
> ...



110% agreed on the Noga holder...it's worth the money over the cheap stuff. Easy to adjust and stays put. I have this one specifically:




__





						NOGA,NOGA DG61003 UNIVERSAL MAGNETIC BASE,1-457-909,KBC Tools & Machinery
					

NOGA,NOGA DG61003 UNIVERSAL MAGNETIC BASE,1-457-909,KBC Tools & Machinery




					www.kbctools.ca


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## Susquatch (Jan 18, 2022)

SomeGuy said:


> I have this one specifically:



Apparently there are guys who prefer tip fine tune like yours, and guys who prefer the fine tune at the base. I splurged and got one with both. *NO Regrets! *It was worth every penny!


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## ThirtyOneDriver (Jan 18, 2022)

I'll consider that an essential item on my "near" future shopping list.  The 20 or so items that @Susquatch listed on another thread as being items that should be close/on hand (they were discussing shop organization for someone specifically, I recognize his handle but can't recall who it is right now) are also on that list (except for the butt pincher).

Other things that I think I should have (at some point, maybe not right now) are a sine bar, a boring bar or set of (but not the chinese soldered on ones that I do have), a boring head, a live center (options on this are something I still need to learn about and then figure out what's best for me)... and then everything gets "big" and unrealistic (for right now) again (4'x4' cnc plasma table, personal cnc mill, hookers and blow, a mother-in-law that I get along with, etc.)  

I'll attempt to be patient w/ ordering the things on the list until I can get a better feel of what I should/shouldn't spend money on... when I first ordered stuff I thought I was going to be all on my own and I'd need to figure out everything through the school of hard knocks.


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## Six O Two (Jan 18, 2022)

ThirtyOneDriver said:


> What I currently own for dial indicator related items.



I have both those types of indicator holders as well, the 'bars' type (not actually its technical name, probably) and the articulated one. They can both be tedious and infuriating, for different reasons -- But having said that, they're also capable of getting you where you need to go.

Sasquatch and SomeGuy have linked to a really nice Noga unit. I don't have that kind of money, but I did buy smaller offshore knock-offs (with fine adjustment at the tip only). I hear the Noga one is really nice and works really well. The offshore ones I have... look pretty. Naw, they're not that bad and are definitely a step up from the two other types I have (like in your picture). At some point though, you kind of just have to 'run what you brung' and start making chips. 

You can sort of set it up like this for tramming a vise. Yes, there's cosign error, but you're not actually measuring anything absolutely, just a relative measure, so what does it matter...


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## Susquatch (Jan 18, 2022)

Six O Two said:


> I have both those types of indicator holders as well, the 'bars' type (not actually its technical name, probably) and the articulated one. They can both be tedious and infuriating, for different reasons -- But having said that, they're also capable of getting you where you need to go.
> 
> Sasquatch and SomeGuy have linked to a really nice Noga unit. I don't have that kind of money, but I did buy smaller offshore knock-offs (with fine adjustment at the tip only). I hear the Noga one is really nice and works really well. The offshore ones I have... look pretty. Naw, they're not that bad and are definitely a step up from the two other types I have (like in your picture). At some point though, you kind of just have to 'run what you brung' and start making chips.
> 
> You can sort of set it up like this for tramming a vise. Yes, there's cosign error, but you're not actually measuring anything absolutely, just a relative measure, so what does it matter...



You are right IMO. What you are really doing when you tram a vice is aligning the rear jaw with the x axis of the bed. So it really doesn't matter squatt how you measure it. That said, am indicator on an angle reduces the effectiveness (call it magnitude of measure) by the normal result of that angle. So you are always better off with an indicator system that is normal (perpendicular) to the axis of movement to maximize the amount of movement you get on the dial readout as a result of any misalignment.

In this respect the last photo is better than the first two. 

I like your "use what you got" advice.


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## Susquatch (Jan 18, 2022)

ThirtyOneDriver said:


> except for the butt pincher)



Really? With a bad back you don't want a butt pincher?

In case you missed it, that's really just a pair of hand actuated jaws on a long stick that can be used to pick stuff up off the floor that you dropped. I usually keep a magnet on an extension handle for the same purpose.

The wife likes to put it out of reach when she is in the shop......


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## Susquatch (Jan 18, 2022)

ThirtyOneDriver said:


> I'll consider that an essential item on my "near" future shopping list.



Ive always considered either making or finding such a list for both the mill and for the lathe. You are correct, the list you referred to is just what I want close at hand and convenient. Not necessarily what I consider essential - although if it's on that list it is essential. But there are lots of other things that I consider essential that are not on that list.

Btw, I was thinking about first lathe projects for you. I highly recommend a lathe tool height fixture. Joe Piezinsky makes one for his lathe here. You can make one out almost any kind of bar stock. I used a big old farm bolt. There is lots of content in that video that is useful for lots of other things.






Joe is hands down my favorite you tube fellow. He has a bit of an ego but he earned it the hard way. I like his teaching style and I like the rich content. You will learn much more than whatever he is featuring.

PS don't get enamoured by that indicator holder of his. The Noga is WAY BETTER. And if you really end up wanting one just like that, look at the Erick Holders. They are better than the General one that Joe likes. Ask me how I know!


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## Brent H (Jan 18, 2022)

@ThirtyOneDriver :

For tramming your vise you have a test indicator so just chuck the end of it in a collet (red straight Arrow) and turn it so you can read the dial.  I put my mill in the back gear so the spindle cannot move easily or you can put the brake on or lock on...what ever you have.  The pointer end can be adjusted so it is in better position to touch the face of the vise.  Move the indicator onto the vise so you get a little reading, tram away.


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## ThirtyOneDriver (Jan 18, 2022)

I'm following - what you're describing @Brent H is where my head was at when I took those parts out of the box the first time.

@Susquatch - I should have a "butt pincher" but we have a saying in this shop... once something hits the floor or goes behind something it's "gone forever" (realistically, that means at some point I'm going to lay on the floor to recover it, but it might not be right away)

Thanks for the reminder @Six O Two, sometimes you have what you have... speaking of which... ...

I think I need to make that adapter bar/rod/piece of hardware so that I can put the BXA QCTP on the tool slide for a couple of hours... I have something that I need ready for Thursday morning (start of day) that I don't think I have any tools (except the cheap boring bars(?)) here capable of doing it.  I have 4 automotive hub adapters that fit a set of rims but don't fit the hubs on the vehicle those rims are for (hub bore needs enlarged) - they're aluminum and 1.5" thick (~2 1/2" center bore, 6 or 7" outer diameter) - I may be able to get away w/ one of the lathe cutting tools I have; the first attempt I only had the cheap 3/8" ones and there wasn't enough clearance... also, I may not need to go that deep to relieve(?) them for the lip of the hub.

I think I have all of the tooling necessary to make (adapter render)





After the hub adapters, I'll get back to setting up the mill (and doing the lathe project, etc.)  I have made a couple of parts here and there, mainly bushing type stuff, on the lathe, but I do need a good starter project or two.

Also, essential tools - I think I need a boring head in the future (maybe the lathe and the boring bar will work for the basic ideas) - a main component that I would like to stop paying someone else to make is a threaded bung that we use in the jack-bolt system of the racecar (basically levelling feet for the suspension - I'd like to use the same size for the levelling feet for my lathe and milling machine stands because it's easy for me to get the bolt side of it) - they're 1 1/8"  NFT (already have the tap).

Thanks for the support - I'll check the thread later - there's some snow that needs moved so the propane guy can relocate the shop's propane tanks... hopefully I can get the shop warmed up a little in the near future.


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## SomeGuy (Jan 18, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Ive always considered either making or finding such a list for both the mill and for the lathe. You are correct, the list you referred to is just what I want close at hand and convenient. Not necessarily what I consider essential - although if it's on that list it is essential. But there are lots of other things that I consider essential that are not on that list.



I've always thought "essential" depends on exactly what you're trying to do...there's no generic list. I mean you could say a dial indicator and a caliper...but even then, if you're planning on turning artsy stuff by eye for example, there's no need for any precision measuring instruments anyway.

The other way is listing what is common to have, though that list tends to get out of hand and makes people think that they can't do any machining until they have all those tools.


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## Susquatch (Jan 18, 2022)

SomeGuy said:


> I've always thought "essential" depends on exactly what you're trying to do...there's no generic list. I mean you could say a dial indicator and a caliper...but even then, if you're planning on turning artsy stuff by eye for example, there's no need for any precision measuring instruments anyway.
> 
> The other way is listing what is common to have, though that list tends to get out of hand and makes people think that they can't do any machining until they have all those tools.



You are prolly right on both counts. 

Maybe essential isn't the right word. 

I dunno, I guess I'm just interested in what tools other users find useful and why. Nobody knows what they don't know and nobody knows what tools exist that they have never heard of. 

I regularly run across all kinds of very useful things I have never heard of, take one look at it, ask a few questions and then say "crap! I just wasted 6 days trying to xxxxxx when for 5 bucks or 5 minutes work I could have xxxxxx.... 

A few recent examples include:

Sensitive micro drill chuck
NOGA Indicator Holder
Morse Taper Wedge
Lathe File

That's just a short list of things I discovered just recently. There are many others. Just imagine how many drill bits I broke or needed to extract before somebody here mentioned a sensitive drill chuck..... It cost me $65 but it was worth every penny, and to me, for my usage, I wish I had one 10 years ago! 

The things I listed above are all pretty basic and using my own definition and my own usage, I'd call them essential. But I didn't even know they existed. 

I'm sure there are many other things I've never heard of before but wish someone would tell me about them. 

Hence my comment.


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## ThirtyOneDriver (Jan 18, 2022)

I love the conversations being had - I'm absorbing as much as I can and every post is teaching/inspiring me.

I get to make my adapter a second time - I made a critical error.  




The finish isn't the greatest, actually, I'd consider it pretty horrible, but I'm using the tools I have.  When I looked up the RPM through an app (instead of going in the house and grabbing the bible) it suggested somewhere around 3000... the CX 709 can go to 1650... I have the CX 709"x" w/ the faulty/undersized motor... I can only turn 850... w/ the cheap BB 3/8" tooling... 

I stopped to check the fitment when I was getting ready to turn down the other end and cut (w/ a die... threading using the machine is beyond my skill level right now) the 5/8" UNF threads when something didn't work quite right.  I don't remember how/where I got the M10x1.5 number from; IIRC a 3/8"-16 nut didn't thread on so I assumed the chinese/taiwan made machine was likely metric - I should have invested more time into confirming.  Oh well, I get more practice.


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## PeterT (Jan 19, 2022)

ThirtyOneDriver said:


> The finish isn't the greatest, actually, I'd consider it pretty horrible, but I'm using the tools I have.



Maybe. I do experiment with different inserts, but tend to keep the same ones in my holders so that's a relative constant. But I can sure tell the difference between some crap grade mystery metal & other alloys. 12L14 is very nice to turn if you haven't tried. Doesn't lend itself to welding because of tiny lead% but its very nice for many general applications, especially threading. I'm getting the hang of stainless after figuring out the scrap bin alloys were more challenging. (tough stuff & work hardening issues). But a few sticks of 303 improved my attitude & I wondered what all the fuss was about. Even made my little valves from it. I'm trying to consciously try different alloys now, like I've not turned 4140 type much. Another I stumbled on is 1144SP (stressproof). Nice to turn & finish & very little distortion. For some reason 1018 seems to be the variable. I bought some new locally & it just turns like sh*t. Bought the same alloy as part of USA order & its just plain different (better), I can't explain.


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## Susquatch (Jan 19, 2022)

ThirtyOneDriver said:


> The finish isn't the greatest, actually, I'd consider it pretty horrible



If the finish is important to you, try a round BIT, or HSS, or a HSS shear tool. But I doubt it really matters for your application. 

Call me an idiot if you want, but I'm not really clear on what that thing is that you are trying to make or how it works. I might be able to help more if I did. And what is the OD? 



ThirtyOneDriver said:


> threading using the machine is beyond my skill level right now



Ya, wise decision. I'd learn basic turning first too. 

And if it makes you feel any better, I used to look for opportunities to thread on the lathe. Anymore now, the first thing I do is check to see if the target thread pitch is supported by the change gear I have installed. If it isn't, and the application doesn't require a perfect thread, then I often set up to thread with a die or a tap instead. Basically, I don't like changing gears because I don't have a lot of room over on the left side of my lathe. It's a tight fit to begin with, but I also keep my steel and aluminium swarf barrels there. Stainless, Brass, and Copper swarf are put in small trash baskets located elsewhere. 

@PeterT - those are some pretty nifty looking valves! Great work!


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## ShawnR (Jan 19, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Ya, wise decision. I'd learn basic turning first too.
> 
> And if it makes you feel any better, I used to look for opportunities to thread on the lathe. Anymore now, the first thing I do is check to see if the target thread pitch is supported by the change gear I have installed. If it isn't, and the application doesn't require a perfect thread, then I often set up to thread with a die or a tap instead. Basically, I don't like changing gears because I don't have a lot of room over on the left side of my lathe.



I agree with @Susquatch , both on learning basic turning first and gear changes. On my old lathe, Craftex B2227,every carriage feed was a change of gears, usually at least 2. I always avoided it, hence never learned to cut threads. The gear changes also took minimum 4 tools! I finally decided to commit to it. I combined 3 tools together and put a thumbscrew on the panel door (yes, even opening the door needed a tool) I kept the tool in the compartment. I then just started changing gears more and cursing less. Eventually, it got much easier. The next good decision I made was to buy a threading tool. Insert type. Sure beats the heck out of squinting at a threading guide to see if the ground angle is correct (but you lose the excuse of blaming the tool for a poor thread...

I have never mastered a great finish but they are improving. I do have one piece of material in the shop that looks beautiful almost always (so I never use it cause I am saving it for.......?? ) Most of my stock is cold rolled so when the members here use metal designations, mine is rusty x10 .

I will be a hundred and still feel like I am the new guy. Enjoy the learning curve. It can be more rewarding than the finished project.

My 2 cents.
Cheers.


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## Susquatch (Jan 19, 2022)

ShawnR said:


> The next good decision I made was to buy a threading tool. Insert type.



I did buy a few carbide insert tools but never learned to like them. A few years ago I ran across this kit.









						Kit #18 1/2 inch Threader NV
					





					www.arwarnerco.com
				




I never looked back. This tool cuts the best threads I know how to make. It uses hss inserts instead of carbide. So you can cut slower and still get a fantastic finish.

I also have one of these from Mesa tool. It is almost as good as the Warner but uses carbide inserts. I use it for most of the threading I do and I save the Warner for those times when I need the best thread I can make.









						1/2" Thread & Grooving Tool ID/OD | mesatool
					

1/2"″ Thread & Groove ToolThread ID/OD forwards, backwards, upside down.Cutting edge of insert is on centerline!Actual size: ..498 dia X 4.5″ long, flats on 4 sides.Min bore is .650.Heat treated tool steel with black oxide coating.Threading inserts are .093 wide, good for 11 TPI & up.Comes with...




					www.mesatool.com


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## ShawnR (Jan 19, 2022)

Lots out there. This is the one I got here

As I said, it is good, but it is large. Sometimes that makes it a bit of a hindrance. I like the ones @Susquatch got. They look good.


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## ThirtyOneDriver (Jan 19, 2022)

Post 45, 58 and 70 on this thread have pictures/information on what I'm making @Susquatch - I don't know what to call it - an adapter pin perhaps?

The OEM Tool Post (TP) has that smaller bolt(ish) type thing that the TP is held down by (along w/ the handle) - I know that just throwing the BXA QCTP on the Tool Slide that I did so many measurements for isn't ideal - the slide top is too close to the lathe center - but I don't have a way to mount the boring bars that I have w/o mounting the BXA QCTP.  The adapter pin will thread onto the OEM pin and fit the bore of the BXA QCTP and be long enough that I can use the handle included w/ the BXA QCTP to anchor it.

I'm very limited on materials for lathe work right now... my shop is more of a welding shop than a machining shop so the materials I have laying around are cold-rolled (less scale) 1018 and I'm using 7/8" round stock.

I think I left enough of an end on the adapter I was making that I could cut the end with the inner thread off and re-drill and tap that end to fit - other than turning down the outer dia (5/8"), the only thing after that I would need to do is cut the 5/8" NFT threads w/ the die.

The speed that the power feed is going seems too aggressive as well.  Again, for what I'm making (and I'm hoping it's temporary) it doesn't matter.

When I have the adapter finished and the QCTP on, I'll be able to use the boring bars that I for the hub job - it wasn't something I expected to do right now, but this is how the stars are lining up.  The boring bar cutting edge won't be in line w/ the lathe center... unless perhaps I flip it over and on the far side as the work travels up?? ??... but sometimes you gotta get'r'dun.  I may also be able to use a RH tool... I think I mixed myself up and the reason it hadn't worked earlier for me was (different job) the radius was too tight so the work was hitting the bottom of the tool (under the cutter).

Can't tell you guys enough how much I appreciate you following me along and sharing experiences/solutions/ideas.


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## ThirtyOneDriver (Jan 19, 2022)

@PeterT beautiful valves - what are they for?  What's the diameter of the head?


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## Susquatch (Jan 19, 2022)

ThirtyOneDriver said:


> Post 45, 58 and 70 on this thread have pictures/information on what I'm making @Susquatch - I don't know what to call it - an adapter pin perhaps?



OK, somehow or another I stopped following the details of the thread when you started adapting the BXA to the AXA base. It wasn't something I thought I could help with nor learn from. 

Silly question - Most of those through Bolts just screw into the t-base. Why don't you just remove the small one and replace it with the big one instead of screwing them together?  You could do this several ways:

One would be to bore out and tap your existing base to fit the bigger shaft. But that is a one way trip. 

I'd much sooner see you either make a new big shaft like you have but as a one shot replacement with a small male thread on one end and the bigger male thread on the other. 

That or cut down the new base to fit your old T-slot. This would be my preferred approach.



ThirtyOneDriver said:


> The speed that the power feed is going seems too aggressive as well. Again, for what I'm making (and I'm hoping it's temporary) it doesn't matter.



That's a bit hard to believe. I'm guessing you have not figured out how to use the chart and the levers that came with your lathe. I've yet to see a lathe that would not feed slower than a snails grandmother...  



ThirtyOneDriver said:


> When I have the adapter finished and the QCTP on, I'll be able to use the boring bars that I for the hub job -



OK, this is where I differ greatly. Put those boring bars of yours away until you get a mill and a boring head and go get yourself a nice proper lathe boring bar sized for the job. Unlike mill boring bars, lathe bars are specified for the size of hole you are boring and have rakes  for that size that will not rub in the hole. You will never regret it. 99% of lathe boring bars allow you to choke up on the length for stiffness too and the flat is designed to index correctly in a regular lathe tool holder. Although I've never done it, I'd bet that the indexing flat on a milling bar is not properly located for use in a lathe.


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## Susquatch (Jan 19, 2022)

ThirtyOneDriver said:


> When I have the adapter finished and the QCTP on, I'll be able to use the boring bars that I for the hub job



I was correct. I I went out to my shop just now and I looked more closely at the two kinds of boring bars. The indexing flats on the boring bars that are used with a boring head on a mill ARE NOT indexed properly for use in a lathe tool holder. It might be possible to use them in a round clamp, but that seems totally backward to me. 

Take a run out your nearest tooling shop and get one of these the right size for the job you need to do and for the holders you have. Make sure to get one with an indexing flat. 

Here is very inexpensive set that will get to your place by Friday if you do it now. They will work just fine with your existing AXA tool post and will work with your BXA when you finish that too. 



			Amazon.ca


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## ThirtyOneDriver (Jan 19, 2022)

Yeah... I haven't figured out the chart and levers yet.  https://manualzz.com/doc/53356446/craftex-cx-series-cx709-13in.-x-24in.-metal-lathe-owner-m...

I'll keep plugging away and see what I can do w/ the advice, etc.  I'll look to see if there's a simpler solution "for now" so that I can get this task done and then concentrate on setting up the mill to create a new tool slide/machine down the one I have a 1/4".  I'm trying to avoid going down one way streets for right now.


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## Susquatch (Jan 19, 2022)

ThirtyOneDriver said:


> I'll look to see if there's a simpler solution "for now" so that I can get this task done




You can prolly turn that base down on your lathe just as easily as milling it...... Just chuck it in the four jaw with a backing system of some kind so it sits proud of the jaws and then turn it to the desired thickness to fit your T-slot. That would not be a one-way street.


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## ThirtyOneDriver (Jan 19, 2022)

I got the hub adapter/spacer issue resolved and can go back to properly setting up the tool post for the lathe. 

Therefore, back to tramming the head of the mill, etc.


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## ThirtyOneDriver (Jan 19, 2022)

The deck of the tool slide is too high - are you thinking that I could cut down the base of the BXA post?

I think @PeterT summed up what I'm thinking that I need to do the best w/ this photo/edit.





I'm reluctant to cut the top off of the tool slide so am still contemplating making another to fit the parts of the BXA QCTP.


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## Susquatch (Jan 19, 2022)

I am with you. Lopping off that compound is a one way trip I would not really want to take. Yes, I'd rather take a bit off the bottom of the tool post and those holders that need it to buy the room you need to be able to center your tools.

Similarly, even though it would require removing the compound to do it, I'd be making a new through bolt rather than making an adapter bolt.

The bottom line is that you are relatively young. In time you may want to buy a bigger lathe. I'd want to keep everything original to maximize resale. But that is a flaw in my character. Peter's solution is a better one if you don't care about resale. 

Of course, you could always take off half and maybe both posts would work. Who the heck would ever know or care  if it still looked and worked like factory?


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## Susquatch (Jan 19, 2022)

I know where there is a shop a few hours West down the 401 where you could do whatever you want to do and the owner will even let you use his machines while he watches and yaks yours ears off.


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## Tom Kitta (Jan 19, 2022)

ThirtyOneDriver said:


> The deck of the tool slide is too high - are you thinking that I could cut down the base of the BXA post?
> 
> I think @PeterT summed up what I'm thinking that I need to do the best w/ this photo/edit.
> View attachment 20056
> ...



I had same thing on two lathes. No issues, just turned a new bolt to fit the QCTP. One of them was BXA. No issues at all. 

If deck is too high as in your example for unknown reason just cut it down. I would be only reluctant to do so if there was not enough meat over there. Otherwise, what is the problem? Its not going to affect negatively your machine at all.


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## Susquatch (Jan 19, 2022)

Another thing I missed dropping off the thread like I did....... There is no T-slot. Gunna have to re-read the whole thread I think.


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## Tom Kitta (Jan 19, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Another thing I missed dropping off the thread like I did....... There is no T-slot. Gunna have to re-read the whole thread I think.



Yes, the thing is held with a bolt. There is not enough, imho to cut a real T-lot in there / it would make things a bit too flexible - at least on designs I seen.


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## PeterT (Jan 19, 2022)

I don't know how much you can remove from bottom of TP without adversely affecting the action. You probably said but is it wedge or plunger?


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## YYCHM (Jan 19, 2022)

PeterT said:


> I don't know how much you can remove from bottom of TP without adversely affecting the action. You probably said but is it wedge or plunger?



Wedge


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## PeterT (Jan 19, 2022)

Hmm...  so how is that going to work?


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## ThirtyOneDriver (Jan 19, 2022)

I'm avoiding cutting the tool post - I'd prefer to cut the tool SLIDE but because I want to be able to resell and keep my BXA stuff I'm leaning heavily towards making a new tool slide.


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## Susquatch (Jan 19, 2022)

Ok, I've read this thread from beginning to end. It's been around the proverbial horn (of Africa) more than once.

Yes, it's a bolt. No T-slot. Thanks @Tom Kitta .  I agree with you. I don't think cutting a T-slot would be easy or advisable for @ThirtyOneDriver. I assume the divot on the side of the base of the bolt is for a dowel or lock screw to keep it aligned and stop it from turning. 

After giving this some real good thought based on all the info here I've arrived at the view that:

Adapting to the old pin is mostly an attempt to be able to use the old tool post without removing the compound and also to solve the size difference between the old and new post bolts.

I don't think cutting the old compound down is a good idea because of the reduced stiffness and strength.

I don't think making a new compound is a good idea either because of the required precision associated with the way compounds are normally used. That's a project for a few years down the road.

It is my opinion that it's better to use the new tool post as is with a new bolt to make it fit the existing system. The new bolt would be the same size as the old bolt except longer. A custom sleeve would adapt the old diameter to the bigger bore of the BXA tool post. Both the new bolt and the sleeve are great projects for a new machinist.

This does not solve the tool height problem. But not all the tool holders are too high. To solve that issue, I'd simply machine whatever is needed off the bottom of the ones that are too high and be done with the issue for a few years. Might also have to use smaller tools in those few cases where it's needed (eg 3/8 instead of 1/2).

Keep in mind that adapting a bigger bolt to the smaller one does not increase its strength. In fact it is probably much weaker than the original because the cross sectional area of the remaining steel in the threaded tube is smaller than the cross section of the original bolt. Also, any part is only as strong as its weakest link - which is either the original bolt or the tubular section of the new one. A sleeve at least maintains the full strength of the original bolt.

Last but not least, you could drill out the compound to take a bigger bolt and skip the sleeve without losing the ability to use the old one because the bolt end would still serve as a centering locator in the bottom of the compound.

If you REALLY REALLY feel it's necessary, you could cut a little (AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE TO MAKE IT WORK) off the top of the compound. Nobody ever said it had to be all or nothing. Try to do it in a way that preserves the ability to use the old tool post. 

That's my thinking for whatever it's worth. Oh ya, and HAVE FUN!


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## Susquatch (Jan 19, 2022)

ThirtyOneDriver said:


> I'm avoiding cutting the tool post



Cutting anything off the bottom of the tool post accomplishes nothing anyway. Cutting a little off the top of the compound does help but that's a far worse solution in terms of resale. However, if you keep what you cut off of the compound to a minimum, nobody will notice or care.

What is your worst case tool holder?


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## ThirtyOneDriver (Jan 19, 2022)

Worst case/the highest from base to cutting edge is the silver parting tool w/ the insert.  It measures out to 1.195" using the micrometer - it's in a 250-202*T* tool meaning that the slot in the tool holder has been cut larger - that material comes off of the bottom (where you can read ACCUSIZE).




If I followed @Dabbler's instructions properly (my method of measurement is post #70), there currently is 1.1355" of gap from the top of the tool slide (compound) to the lathe center height.

Milling 0.060" off the top of the OEM tool slide (compound) is becoming pretty attractive @Susquatch.


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## Susquatch (Jan 19, 2022)

ThirtyOneDriver said:


> If I followed @Dabbler's instructions properly (my method of measurement is post #70), there currently is 1.1355" of gap from the top of the tool slide (compound) to the lathe center height.
> 
> Milling 0.060" off the top of the OEM tool slide (compound) is becoming pretty attractive @Susquatch.



First off, @Dabbler doesn't give bad advice - just the best anyone can do with whatever info he is given. If you gave him good info, I'd follow his advice if I were you. I'm not going to waste any of my time checking what he said. He will be right. 

Second, 60 thou is nothing. Like I said before, nobody else will notice or care. 

Third is more of an opinion.... That's a pretty beefy cutoff tool for your lathe. Too big if you ask me. I'd be seriously thinking about dumping that one and getting a smaller one if I were you. But if you really want to keep it, I'd wager a coffee or a beer that you will eventually end up turning it upside down and parting in reverse...... Which will eliminate your height constraint. As an added incentive, I'll even give you whatever you paid for it (and the holder).

Regardless, go ahead and take 60 thou off. Easy peasy to do, and seems like a no-brainer to me too!


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## Tecnico (Jan 19, 2022)

ThirtyOneDriver said:


> I love the conversations being had - I'm absorbing as much as I can and every post is teaching/inspiring me.
> 
> The finish isn't the greatest, actually, I'd consider it pretty horrible, but I'm using the tools I have.  When I looked up the RPM through an app (instead of going in the house and grabbing the bible) it suggested somewhere around 3000... the CX 709 can go to 1650... I have the CX 709"x" w/ the faulty/undersized motor... I can only turn 850... w/ the cheap BB 3/8" tooling...
> 
> I stopped to check the fitment when I was getting ready to turn down the other end and cut (w/ a die... threading using the machine is beyond my skill level right now) the 5/8" UNF threads when something didn't work quite right.  I don't remember how/where I got the M10x1.5 number from; IIRC a 3/8"-16 nut didn't thread on so I assumed the chinese/taiwan made machine was likely metric - I should have invested more time into confirming.  Oh well, I get more practice.



I can't claim to be particularly skilled as a machinist but I think I might be able to offer some advice from my experience on your CRS part finish.  What I see in the discussion forums says that insert tooling isn't the best thing to use to get a good (or decent for me, LOL!) finish on CRS (but does fantastic on aluminum!) and that nicely prepared HSS will do better.  Actually, I only recently got into insert tooling, I spent years working with with HSS and brazed carbide tooling and I'm still climbing the steep learning curve. 

Anyhow, after seeing the advice to use HSS I looked a little closer at what I was doing and experimented a bit and my finish improved.  In the machining books there are recommended rake angles etc, but the thing that caught my eye was the recommendation to make the cutting edge as sharp and smooth as possible - and have more than a small rad on the end of the tool (when looking down on it).  I've ground the tool then and as a finish, smooth/polish the ground faces of the tool so the material slides across the surface and at the cutting edge and doesn't give it as much of a chance to stick & gum up the faces and ruin the part finish.  As I see it described, CRS is a rather gummy material that tends to, well, be gummy and draw the tool in and not cut nicely like aluminum so a sharp, smooth tool is a good tactic.  I also use a cutting fluid, my favorite for this & hard materials is called Jokish HDS400.

I've just recently gotten up the courage to try and cut some threads and once you've decided to do it, it's not especially hard but still requires standard technique which you'll find in many references and thinking through what you're doing before hand.  In my case I came at it cautiously and actually did the cutting by hand using a hand crank in the headstock of the Myford.  That meant I had full control of how far I traveled with the cutter before withdrawing to make another pass.  It has worked out great so far.  It also helps that I have a quick change gearbox on my Super 7 to get the pitch set up and I have acquired "cheater" change gears that let me do (almost) perfect metric pitch with my imperial QC box.  Bottom line, try it by hand first then graduate to powered threading.

BTW, I'm enjoying looking through the photos, especially the race cars....

D


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## ThirtyOneDriver (Jan 20, 2022)

@Susquatch - I do have smaller parting tools, but I may take you up on your offer - we'll work something out.

@Tecnico - I think I need to give HSS more consideration because of the speeds I'm limited to... it's not like I don't have enough tool holders and using the HSS seems like it would develop more understanding of the effects of cutting edges.  I have a ton more pics of racecars; I worked on CASCAR Sportsman/Super Series, NASCAR Canadian Tire Series and NASCAR Pintys Series cars (at least one car per season, most of the time for part-time outfits) for 18 seasons continuously and have worked on a variety of chassis ranging from "pure stock" four cylinders through to limited late models - I've really been focused on improving the tooling/equipment in the shop so that I can build/setup cars at a higher standard.  I've been avoiding pictures that fully identify me so that I don't need to be embarrassed about my mistakes (and therefore more transparent).


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## ThirtyOneDriver (Jan 22, 2022)

I was able to get a hand from a forum member yesterday to modify my OEM compound/tool slide - this is just a mock-up and I still need to make a threaded pin to secure the QCTP and some other small details.

As seen in the photos, I now have enough clearance for my tooling and will be able to adjust most easily using the BXA tool holders.

Thank you everyone for helping me throughout the brainstorming and planning stages of this project and thank you directly to the member that provided the assistance.


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## Brent H (Jan 22, 2022)

Looking great!!  Way to go!!


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## YYCHM (Jan 22, 2022)

ThirtyOneDriver said:


> I was able to get a hand from a forum member yesterday to modify my OEM compound/tool slide



Not going to share which forum member came to the rescue?


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## ThirtyOneDriver (Jan 22, 2022)

They can identify themselves if they want to Craig - I'll give them the opportunity.  @YYCHM, I don't think you'd need to make three guesses to have it figured out.


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## Susquatch (Jan 22, 2022)

YYCHM said:


> Not going to share which forum member came to the rescue?



Bet he was big hairy and ugly....... 



ThirtyOneDriver said:


> As seen in the photos, I now have enough clearance for my tooling and will be able to adjust most easily using the BXA tool holders



Looks great assembled like that even if it is still only a mockup. That's a great way to show how much clearance you have now too. Can't wait till you turn your first part!


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## ThirtyOneDriver (Jan 22, 2022)

I came across an idea that should be added to the list of things to do - it's a tubing notcher setup using the lathe instead of the milling machine like I've been using.



It appears that it's a vise setup on the cross slide(?) - the items in red are the accessories that are being sold by the company... I think they make a dedicated motor/collet/machine but IIRC it's about $2500 and I think I could get my lathe (maybe not mine, but a lathe) to work similarly.

I was exposed to the magic of VFDs yesterday and that's something I'd like to explore more - an oil change for my CX 709"x" is on the horizon and if that doesn't help it spin up to 1650 I'll explore a motor/VFD setup for the future.


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## Susquatch (Jan 23, 2022)

ThirtyOneDriver said:


> I came across an idea that should be added to the list of things to do - it's a tubing notcher setup using the lathe instead of the milling machine like I've been using.View attachment 20176
> It appears that it's a vise setup on the cross slide(?) - the items in red are the accessories that are being sold by the company... I think they make a dedicated motor/collet/machine but IIRC it's about $2500 and I think I could get my lathe (maybe not mine, but a lathe) to work similarly.
> 
> I was exposed to the magic of VFDs yesterday and that's something I'd like to explore more - an oil change for my CX 709"x" is on the horizon and if that doesn't help it spin up to 1650 I'll explore a motor/VFD setup for the future.



The two parts in the photo look like a vise stop and a cross slide stop. Therefore I'm guessing that the setup is designed to do repetitive notching of parts for something like a fence or railing or whatever....

To me, that looks like a really nifty way to machine the side of some tubing stock in a lathe for someone who doesn't have a mill. But I can't immediately see why someone who has a mill would want to do that on a lathe.

Can you post a few photos or drawings of what you are trying to notch and what the notches would look like?


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## ThirtyOneDriver (Jan 23, 2022)

@Susquatch - roll cage tubing; every joint has different angles, some are really close to bends, some have compound angles (airplane speak, pitch, yaw and roll) and some have a second or more tubes that intersect together that need taken into consideration when fish mouthing/notching the tubes.  It's easier to explain visually/with several examples.

I have done it a variety of ways as I built tooling and experience - the main tubing size I use is 1 3/4" so toilet roll tubing has worked (may have needed slit open and taped, long time ago) - cut the tubing as a mock-up joint and transfer to steel tubing and use whatever is available to cut away material to match... that's the basic idea however one needs to go about it.

Here's what I've been using recently - it worked well for any straight tube as I'm still getting comfortable with clamping things to t-slot table.





Some tools built on the 3D printer to make things easier.



 


 


 




An example of what's been notched that I happen to have - I don't take many pics when I'm working.


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## ThirtyOneDriver (Jan 23, 2022)

I'm moving the continuation of this thread out of the "Intro" topic and into the "Projects" so I'm not bumping new member's threads.  Thanks for understanding.









						ThirtyOne Driver's projects
					

Posts to the "Intros" forum and my 7 page thread keep bumping other new member's posts and I'd like to stop doing that.  My intent is to continue that thread here and keep my projects and the related questions in one spot.  Of course, I'm still a "Cambridge - machinist newb" so feel free to jump...




					canadianhobbymetalworkers.com


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