# Right to Repair



## jcdammeyer (Oct 21, 2022)

In this particular case I'm the designer of the boards that were returned to me instead of tossed into scrap.   My client asked if I wanted them for spare parts otherwise they were going to be recycled as scrap.  The world is so used to trashing electronics that doesn't work they don't even think about potential repair or repurpose.

In this case the reason the 22 units were returned is because they accidentally wired 24V into a 0-10V output pin.  By the time they'd figured it out a bunch were trash.

I keep running into electronics devices that do not have schematics or are even designed not to be serviced.   Especially the new modern vehicles.  Replace for huge amounts of money or junk the car.  When I think about my lane change avoidance system which has over the last week or so been flickering the red arrow in the right mirror and on occasions beeping that I'm about to change lanes into someone it's annoying.  

When I'm driving along and it does the same thing but thinks I'm actually changing lanes and hits the brakes to help me avoid the 'nothing' then it's dangerous.  (I've disabled it for now).   It's this sort of thing that has me totally against self driving cars.  Yes.   They work when they leave the factory.  But what about when they are 8 years old like my vehicle which is now doing false alarms.

My two cents...


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## Susquatch (Oct 21, 2022)

@jcdammeyer 

I am totally against self driving cars too. Never liked that idea and still don't. 

The argument proponents make is that even with errors, it's way better than a poor driver. I think they should both get off the road.


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## Degen (Oct 21, 2022)

Repair...means investing in instructions and details.

Self driving cars, there are exceptions  as an example our son will likely never have a license because of seizure disorder, a self driving car could give the same access that the rest of us take for granted.


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## PeterT (Oct 21, 2022)

I'd rather see self-driving tech applied to other applications of interest: self-reducing taxes/premiums/fees, self-exploding politicians, AI lie detector lenses, self responding ear piercing dial tone to telemarketer calls.... I'm here all night folks, lots more where that came from.


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## 6.5 Fan (Oct 22, 2022)

Peter T i like the way you think.


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## little ol' e (Oct 22, 2022)

Oh no, I like 6.5 fans reply^^^ . I can see the rabbit holes from here. I like the way you both think. I will just stay put and keep quiet on this 1 haha.


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## Susquatch (Oct 22, 2022)

PeterT said:


> I'd rather see self-driving tech applied to other applications of interest: self-reducing taxes/premiums/fees, self-exploding politicians, AI lie detector lenses, self responding ear piercing dial tone to telemarketer calls.... I'm here all night folks, lots more where that came from.



Can I join your fan club too?


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## Tom O (Oct 22, 2022)

How many times have you heard you don’t have $1000,000 liability insurance so you can’t help out your friend/ neighbour but letting your car drive all over hells half acre is the cats ass. I’ll never use one, The last thing I want to hear at my future accident is (Cop) “ Did you try unplugging and plugging it back in!


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## Degen (Oct 24, 2022)

To be honest, since COVID the quality of drivers has gotten substantially worse, an automated car would better, not great but definitely better than those drivers.

At the least we would expect no brains.


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## ShawnR (Oct 24, 2022)

jcdammeyer said:


> In this particular case I'm the designer of the boards that were returned to me instead of tossed into scrap.   My client asked if I wanted them for spare parts otherwise they were going to be recycled as scrap.  The world is so used to trashing electronics that doesn't work they don't even think about potential repair or repurpose.
> 
> In this case the reason the 22 units were returned is because they accidentally wired 24V into a 0-10V output pin.  By the time they'd figured it out a bunch were trash.


Nice repair @jcdammeyer 

A friend (electrician) asked me, recently, to repair a board for him. His daughter's dryer. Small switch on PC board failed so he decided that he should unsolder and resolder. His first question to me was asking if the copper is glued on or something cause it seems to be gone....Yep used too large an iron, foil is gone at switch. He then asked if the board is coated in something, so he did not remove that first....bit of a mess in there.

I am going to confiscate his soldering iron.....


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## Degen (Oct 24, 2022)

ShawnR said:


> Nice repair @jcdammeyer
> 
> A friend (electrician) asked me, recently, to repair a board for him. His daughter's dryer. Small switch on PC board failed so he decided that he should unsolder and resolder. His first question to me was asking if the copper is glued on or something cause it seems to be gone....Yep used too large an iron, foil is gone at switch. He then asked if the board is coated in something, so he did not remove that first....bit of a mess in there.
> 
> I am going to confiscate his soldering iron.....


Smart move traces don't like excessive heat.


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## jcdammeyer (Oct 24, 2022)

ShawnR said:


> Nice repair @jcdammeyer
> 
> A friend (electrician) asked me, recently, to repair a board for him. His daughter's dryer. Small switch on PC board failed so he decided that he should unsolder and resolder. His first question to me was asking if the copper is glued on or something cause it seems to be gone....Yep used too large an iron, foil is gone at switch. He then asked if the board is coated in something, so he did not remove that first....bit of a mess in there.
> 
> I am going to confiscate his soldering iron.....


So were you able to repair it?


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## Tom O (Oct 24, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> @jcdammeyer
> 
> I am totally against self driving cars too. Never liked that idea and still don't.
> 
> The argument proponents make is that even with errors, it's way better than a poor driver. I think they should both get off the road.


I went to Victoria BC one time and was using the gps after arriving I looked at the stats and found the top speed achieved was 400 some odd mph so I’d like to see a self driving car drive through the mountains and tunnels!


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## jcdammeyer (Oct 24, 2022)

We've drifted off a little bit from my original idea which was about the right to repair things that are considered throw-away.  My son's girlfriend bought a used Mercedes B200.  It seemed like a good deal.  Sold by a doctor who's daughter had moved and it had sat parked for a while.

Anyway, seems the the Engine Control Unit has a problem.  I suspect it's a faulty transistor or capacitor.  With no schematics it's a very expensive throw away part.  So you think, why not pick up a used one at a wrecker for a couple of hundred or so.  Well it seems that the engine serial # is programmed into the processor in such a way that you need a special programmer to update that.  ie. Pull it apart, clean up some programming pads, press the spring loaded programming pins onto those pads and pull the information, then change the serial # and then reprogram it.

Without that it won't talk to the rest of the car and the car won't start.    The dealer will provide a new one ordered from the factory with the correct serial #.  For about $2K.

Or it might just be the ignition key.  They only have one so they can't try the other one.  And again a new key to try, again matched to the vehicle serial #, is expensive.  To try and have it not fix the issue they won't do.  Although I think having a spare key is a good idea.

The thing is repairing instead of replacing is how I started my career.   I'm still repairing things.  But I'll also buy new...


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## Doggggboy (Oct 24, 2022)

Still slightly off topic but i heard that a couple of the car manufacturers, (Toyota or BMW I think} will be using a subscription service to enable the seat heaters. Next car I buy will have been made in the 1960s, I swear. Toolkit will be vice grips and a book of matches for the points.


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## jcdammeyer (Oct 24, 2022)

Doggggboy said:


> Still slightly off topic but i heard that a couple of the car manufacturers, (Toyota or BMW I think} will be using a subscription service to enable the seat heaters. Next car I buy will have been made in the 1960s, I swear. Toolkit will be vice grips and a book of matches for the points.


BMW but others are looking at the concept too.


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## Chicken lights (Oct 24, 2022)

Doggggboy said:


> and a book of matches for the points.


Not many people are going to get that reference, anymore


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## ShawnR (Oct 24, 2022)

jcdammeyer said:


> So were you able to repair it?


Don't know yet. I think I will be able to. I am into a house reno and part of it involves my room where my workbench is so it is chaos right now. I will report back. Thanks for asking.


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## ShawnR (Oct 24, 2022)

jcdammeyer said:


> We've drifted off a little bit from my original idea which was about the right to repair things that are considered throw-away.  My son's girlfriend bought a used Mercedes B200.  It seemed like a good deal.  Sold by a doctor who's daughter had moved and it had sat parked for a while.
> 
> Anyway, seems the the Engine Control Unit has a problem.  I suspect it's a faulty transistor or capacitor.  With no schematics it's a very expensive throw away part.  So you think, why not pick up a used one at a wrecker for a couple of hundred or so.  Well it seems that the engine serial # is programmed into the processor in such a way that you need a special programmer to update that.  ie. Pull it apart, clean up some programming pads, press the spring loaded programming pins onto those pads and pull the information, then change the serial # and then reprogram it.
> 
> ...


I think a few of us on here have a similar background ie electronics repair. Being able to repair stuff is rewarding.....and addicting. I hate the disposable society we are in. I would like to know more about this ECU issue. You can do it through PM's if you like rather than boring others here. Any photos?  I am surprised the module is serviceable... SMT or through hole components?


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## jcdammeyer (Oct 24, 2022)

ShawnR said:


> I think a few of us on here have a similar background ie electronics repair. Being able to repair stuff is rewarding.....and addicting. I hate the disposable society we are in. I would like to know more about this ECU issue. You can do it through PM's if you like rather than boring others here. Any photos?  I am surprised the module is serviceable... SMT or through hole components?


I haven't had personal access.  Just what I've read on the internet.  They can get the car to start if they turn on the ignition and let it sit for a few minutes.  Then OFF and ON and START and away it goes.  We'll see what winter brings.  They've spent enough on it now that it would be money in the toilet to junk it.  Better to replace the ECU I think.

It's a sealed module.  Needs to be taken apart.  My understanding is it's programmed at the factory in the manner outlined below.  Or something like that.

Here's a photo of a simple project I did many years ago.   Only needed to be programmed once but with a unique code for each.  The programming assembly was on an XYZ gantry system I built but with 20 TPI 1/4" threaded rod lead screws and cheap PA stepper motors it was way too slow to automatically program them.  I ended up just inserting the programmer and pressing the spring pins against the board.

The brass hex alignment pins were done on my Gingery Lathe.


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## jcdammeyer (Oct 26, 2022)

No one has asked what the little modules are so I thought I'd post the PDF describing them.


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## Susquatch (Oct 26, 2022)

Just couldn't resist could you....

Now I won't be able sleep for months wondering how many fingers you have left.....


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## jcdammeyer (Oct 26, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Just couldn't resist could you....
> 
> Now I won't be able sleep for months wondering how many fingers you have left.....


I always thought they'd be great for paint ball courses.  You wear a receiver on your vest with a loud beeper.  If you step on a land mine it trips and sends out the message that it went BOOM!  Your vest receives this and starts making a noise like something screaming.  At this point your mates have to give up fighting and help you back to a specific station where the screaming is cancelled (field hospital) by a special transmitter.

Remember the whole point of anti-personal land mines is to injure, not kill so it takes 3 out of the battle.  One injured and two for helping the injured back out of the front lines.

Unlike the Yagi antennas that were used to receive, the vest antenna would have a range of about 5' so people near you wouldn't have their screamer tripped.

I also built 10 that had a large coil inside that could detect an ultra low frequency signal like the type used on the exit of stores to thwart shoplifters.  You passed the transmitting coil over the ground and the WORM would trip as if you pressed the button without actually stepping on it.  Designed for long term burial to see if they still worked months or even a year later after plants grew back over top.


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## Dabbler (Oct 27, 2022)

Reminds me of the military contracts I did for General Dynamics...


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## jcdammeyer (Oct 27, 2022)

Dabbler said:


> Reminds me of the military contracts I did for General Dynamics...


Ah yes.  General Dynamics.  Me too...  General Dynamics UK


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## Degen (Oct 28, 2022)

One of my antenna designs is on a 1-1/2" dia pc board for 450 & 900mhz  range tested to a 1000ft mounted flush to the ground on ultra low power.  Sorry can't tell you the application.

Other builds include security systems, wild life tracking, video/audio distribution at major sporting events.

This is just the commercial side of the business.


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## jcdammeyer (Oct 28, 2022)

Degen said:


> One of my antenna designs is on a 1-1/2" dia pc board for 450 & 900mhz  range tested to a 1000ft mounted flush to the ground on ultra low power.  Sorry can't tell you the application.
> 
> Other builds include security systems, wild life tracking, video/audio distribution at major sporting events.
> 
> This is just the commercial side of the business.


Never did check the range on the WORMs above ground.  They were normally buried up to 24" deep and apparently even in  wet soil along the Cambodia Thailand border were detected when the demining equipment thrashed over them.  Mine are also about 1.5" diameter and in the two lower ISM bands.


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