# New Milling Machine - Craftex CX-601



## SomeGuy (Jul 1, 2022)

Probably time to start a thread on this rather than continuing in my WTB thread as my adventures in milling begin.

I picked up a used CX-601 with stand for $3000 in quite good condition a couple weeks ago:






I haven't really done much on it yet, other than a couple test cuts with a 1/2" end mill in aluminum, can be seen here:






Seems to work pretty well. I am going to do a full walkthrough video on bringing it home and through the features, so watch for that coming soon.

I've picked up a bunch of the usual accessories for it already, a 5" vise, collets, end mills, parallels, v blocks, edge finder, keyless drill chuck, clamp down kit, etc. but am sure I'll pick up more as I do new things.

I do want a couple other big upgrades though, namely a power feed for the X axis and probably more importantly a DRO. Anyone have suggestions on what to get for each of those?


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## YYCHM (Jul 1, 2022)

Got my DRO from AliExpress, and my PF from Vivor.ca


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## SomeGuy (Jul 1, 2022)

YYCHM said:


> Got my DRO from AliExpress, and my PF from Vivor.ca



Any links to specific ones that would work?


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## YYCHM (Jul 1, 2022)

SomeGuy said:


> Any links to specific ones that would work?



For the PF, no, I retrofitted a BP PF to a RF30 clone.  DROs are generic in nature and can be fitted to any machine.


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## phaxtris (Jul 1, 2022)

I also got my dro and powerfeed from ali, do some shopping around, most of them are the same but the prices vary widely (mainly in the shipping)


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## Susquatch (Jul 2, 2022)

@SomeGuy - Go to "www.dropros.com" in the USA and read some of their material and watch a few install videos. They want to sell you one and they are very compelling but they are $. I just can't afford their ask. You may feel differently. After reviewing what they have, come back here and ask more questions. I'd be happy to explain my thinking. 

Then decide what you want. Optical vs magnetic, resolution, rpm, etc. I decided to get a Ditron magnetic 1 micron 4 axis Slim Scales with rpm direct from the Ditron store on Ali. Lots of other members have a Ditron and they like it. Got it for the same price as 3 Axis Optical no rpm with free shipping. Just have to haggle with them. They are based out of Shenzhen (the haggle capital of China) so they are well practiced at haggling. Take your time, be patient, and ask a lot of questions. Good prices will come. The more patient and less urgent you are, the sharper their pencil will get. I am thrilled with what I got. Much happier than I ever imagined I would be.

If you watch Ali and do frequent searches (eg "3 Axis DRO" ), the system seems to recognize your interest and then at some point starts sending you deals. If you are patient those deals get REALLY attractive. When you finally reach out, the sellers seem to know that you are fickle so they offer even better deals. I started out with a chat on a 3-axis system which morphed into a 4 axis 1 micron magnetic scale "slim" system with rpm for the same low price. I just kept asking questions like "what's the difference between 3 and 4 axis", "does the Readout box support more axis than the 3 axis", "does the Readout support different scale technologies", "how big are the different scales", etc etc. Sooner or later they get tired of answering questions and start trying to sell you. Be prepared to "chat" for a few weeks because of the time and language difference. You will be called "dear, sweetheart, love, handsome, etc.". I think they all attend an internet sales course. I received what I expected with free Purolator shipping in a very short time.

Here is a link to my install:

Thread 'Installing a DRO on a Hartford Bridgeport Clone.' https://canadianhobbymetalworkers.com/threads/installing-a-dro-on-a-hartford-bridgeport-clone.4852/


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## Degen (Jul 2, 2022)

Considering DRO, consider CNC.

DRO

Gives accurate location even if your machine has significant backlash
Considering the set up can be very cost effective or expensive.
Disadvantage all you movements are still manual controlled even if you have some power feeds (extra costs)

CNC

Gives accurate location, but backlash must be considered in movements
Can be cost effect and match some DRO costs, but general consider spending more.
Movements are power controlled (hence CNC) yet manually control can be over ridden with various methods so you still cN do manual functions.

Each has their place, this is what I considered in doing my upgrades.  Putting comparisons on an equal footing in rough numbers.

DRO PRO's

Kit $800.00
Power feeds two axis $500.00
Misc Costs $150.00
Converted to CDN$1,900.00

ACORN CNC from CNC4PC
Kit $900.00
Clearpath SDSK (3 axis) $1,500.00
Misc Costs 900.00
Converted to CDN$4,300.00

In both cases shipping is not included.

For me the latter was the choice as the pay back is considerably faster and more easily justified.


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## Tecnico (Jul 2, 2022)

@SomeGuy  Congratulations on your shiny new milling machine!  And the fun begins,  I know this group is ready and willing to help spend your hard earned $ on tooling!


Hope I'm not side tracking your thread too much with this but since you mentioned DROs I'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts on Yuri's TouchDRO as an option?

The pluses I see include: it can be used with various types/sources of scales and you are not limited to a proprietary manufacturer's display hardware.  The display hardware point is important if there is concern that the mechanical membrane snap switches of the proprietary hardware will have a limited life since they have moving parts.  My dishwasher is a case in point of this (%^$& Sears).  The Android tablet hardware with touch screen would be easily interchangeable.

Other concerns would be long term support by Yuri in case his priorities change at some point.

Does anyone have experience with this system and have any comments positive or negative?

Tecnico


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## Susquatch (Jul 2, 2022)

@SomeGuy & @Degen

Everyone puts different values on things. Especially on their time. As a hobbiest, and an old man, time doesn't mean much to me anymore. Time spent doing things I love is a journey of enjoyment.

Years ago, someone asked me how I justified building a bigger garage than needed to fit our cars. I replied by asking him to first justify his boat. The discussion ended there.

I didn't get a DRO to save time or to do things I couldn't do without it. I got it because it's an amazing piece of technology, I like it, and because it makes measurements and what not easy. I have no regrets.

Another member visiting my shop told me he would go crazy cranking my mill table back and forth. I love cranking my mill table back and forth to make a piece of art.

Every member needs to consider their own wants and needs and decide their own priorities.

Edit - my 4 axis one micron w rpm was under $500 all in.


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## Susquatch (Jul 2, 2022)

Tecnico said:


> @SomeGuy  Congratulations on your shiny new milling machine!  And the fun begins,  I know this group is ready and willing to help spend your hard earned $ on tooling!
> 
> 
> Hope I'm not side tracking your thread too much with this but since you mentioned DROs I'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts on Yuri's TouchDRO as an option?
> ...



Sorry, can't help. I do know that my magnetic scales are compatible with many different Readouts. It seems that the DB9 connectors are pretty standard.


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## Tecnico (Jul 2, 2022)

@Susquatch, you've helped already, thanks!  I was wondering what you paid on Ali for your DRO setup,  If I go that way I have a ballpark to aim for.

WRT the scales, TouchDRO seems to ba able to handle about any scales that conform to normal industry I/O standards.


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## CWret (Jul 2, 2022)

Congrats on the new mill. I look forward to seeing where you go from here with your milling adventure. 

To others on this thread:
I saw SomeGuys garage and new mill when I borrowed his engine hoist (I was expecting to use it when bringing home my own CX601 from the Owen Sound area on Tuesday. That 601 was not as advertised and I left it there. So the engine hoist was returned unused.) His garage space is extremely well utilized and very well organized - this makes his home shop/garage area seem much larger than it is.


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## David_R8 (Jul 2, 2022)

Tecnico said:


> @Susquatch, you've helped already, thanks!  I was wondering what you paid on Ali for your DRO setup,  If I go that way I have a ballpark to aim for.
> 
> WRT the scales, TouchDRO seems to ba able to handle about any scales that conform to normal industry I/O standards.


The TouchDRO developer Yuri is active on the Hobby Machinist forum with a dedicated thread. He's super helpful.


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## Tecnico (Jul 2, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> The TouchDRO developer Yuri is active on the Hobby Machinist forum with a dedicated thread. He's super helpful.


Now that I think about it I did see that forum, good to see that he's active in the community.  I think I recognized a few other names too. 

I'm hoping to hear from some users and their experiences vs. popular solutions like Ditron too, we'll see!


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## Degen (Jul 2, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> @SomeGuy & @Degen
> 
> Everyone puts different values on things. Especially on their time. As a hobbiest, and an old man, time doesn't mean much to me anymore. Time spent doing things I love is a journey of enjoyment.
> 
> ...


I agree, I just used the example for
numbers to compare apples to apples and similar levels of equipment.

Hobbiest and professionals (while I might fall into a that category because I use it as such, I don't think I am).

All need to understand the need and application as well as the costs involved.  A few hundred or several thousands (or more) it is still an expense that requires proper evaluation to determine what is best.

I would say DRO makes things easier and requires less effort to achieve results over manual dials as technology does the work for you.

CNC just does the work beyond the DRO.


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## Susquatch (Jul 2, 2022)

Tecnico said:


> @Susquatch, you've helped already, thanks!  I was wondering what you paid on Ali for your DRO setup,  If I go that way I have a ballpark to aim for.
> 
> WRT the scales, TouchDRO seems to ba able to handle about any scales that conform to normal industry I/O standards.



The 500 I mentioned included duty. The border guys opened the package and dinged me. They didn't close it back up right either so I'm lucky not to have lost anything major - just a few clips that I didn't need anyway. I "think" what I gave Ali was just under 400. I also think they were desperate for a sale. Prolly needed it to make their month end numbers........


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## SomeGuy (Jul 2, 2022)

Thanks guys...I've got some reading/searching/haggling to do it would seem. I'd love specific links to some things on Ali, to at least know I'm in the right ballpark. That site is a mess!!

As for CNC vs DRO...the idea of CNC is fun, but might be a bit much to tackle right now. Should learn how to walk (manual milling) before I run (CNC).


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## Degen (Jul 2, 2022)

SomeGuy said:


> Thanks guys...I've got some reading/searching/haggling to do it would seem. I'd love specific links to some things on Ali, to at least know I'm in the right ballpark. That site is a mess!!
> 
> As for CNC vs DRO...the idea of CNC is fun, but might be a bit much to tackle right now. Should learn how to walk (manual milling) before I run (CNC).


I dithered about CNC for years, like it or not learning the manual concepts will happen just a lot quicker if you go the CNC route, the second is you won't have to un learn some nasty manual habits.

My feeling on your post is that you'll do very well with it.


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## David_R8 (Jul 2, 2022)

The only DRO recommendation that I'll make is to get an LCD display as compared to LED or segmented display.


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## Susquatch (Jul 2, 2022)

SomeGuy said:


> Thanks guys...I've got some reading/searching/haggling to do it would seem. I'd love specific links to some things on Ali, to at least know I'm in the right ballpark. That site is a mess!!
> 
> As for CNC vs DRO...the idea of CNC is fun, but might be a bit much to tackle right now. Should learn how to walk (manual milling) before I run (CNC).



I think this is what I started watching and then waited for a sale and then started chatting to add 1 micron, magnetic slim scales, 4th axis, and rpm. 

C$ 454.64  5%OFF | Ditron SINO DRO D80 3 Axis /2 Axis LCD Digital Readout Display RPM  and 50-1000mm 3pcs / 2pcs Optical Linear Glass Scale








						503.15C$ |Ditron Sino Dro D80 3 Axis /2 Axis Lcd Digital Readout Display Rpm And 50-1000mm 3pcs / 2pcs Optical Linear Glass Scale - Level Measuring Instruments - AliExpress
					

Smarter Shopping, Better Living!  Aliexpress.com




					a.aliexpress.com


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## Tom O (Jul 2, 2022)

If you want to put a scale on the quill so it works with the z axis here’s how I did it On the 601. The cover I made has been extended for mounting the scale.


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## Susquatch (Jul 3, 2022)

@SomeGuy - A couple of things about DROs that I learned in my quest. 

Many will suggest that 1 micron is not necessary. 5 or even 10 is fine. I agree with that. However, if you can get it thrown in, then why not? It's just a different magnet or different etching in the scales and basically zero cost to the seller. On the Ditron you can turn off the digits in the display which then rounds off the extra digits in the background. No, it does not truncate, it averages - I checked. Even if you don't use it, the fact that it exists in the background gives me MUCH more confidence in the numbers I do see. 

Similarly, glass scales are fine, but I believe magnetic is actually easier to manufacture and should be cheaper, but isn't. Again, if you can get it thrown in, why not? It is the newer technology. Plus, magnetic is super easy to shorten if you need to. Glass is easy too but it does have a certain "pucker factor". Most users cut it just fine. Is so they are golden. But if not...... It cannot be fixed - only replaced. That's how I looked at it anyway. DROPros pretty much convinced me to go magnetic. 

I also followed their directions for measuring. Watching a video for that was painful, but it did give me confidence. And I am happy with the results. 

I don't personally like the kit brackets. So I made my own that you can see in my install thread. The most difficult one was the X axis. Not because my table was made of undrilobillium, but because I had no X-Axis dro yet! Once the X-Axis was done and turned on, I used it to make the rest of the brackets. I must say that the first working axis was like a cold drink of water after a hot day in the desert. OMG, I couldn't believe how much easier things became. Just locating the tiny screw holes for the read head alone was an amazing experience. So was switching back and forth between metric and imperial. Put the conversion calculator away - you don't need it anymore. 

Lastly, I did what @Tom O suggests above, and added a 4th axis for my Quill. You can leave the quill and Z as separate Readouts, or the unit can be programmed to combine them into one reading for both. Again, the additional cost for Ditron is peanuts. So if you can get it thrown in, why not? 

I do confess my RPM is not working yet. I have to take my mill head apart to install the sensor so it has to wait a while. I had to think long and hard about what I really wanted. An rpm/sfm Readout ala @whydontu or just rpm. I decided that both was feasible so why not? There is something to be said for all the Readouts in one place. But there is also something to be said for programmable rpm functionality. When I take my head apart, I plan to install several sensors so I can use both systems. It's overkill, but..... Why not? 

Life is GREAT!


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## PaulL (Jul 3, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Years ago, someone asked me how I justified building a bigger garage than needed to fit our cars. I replied by asking him to first justify his boat. The discussion ended there.


But I also have a boat!  Oh oh.
OBMetal: first fire in the new workshop/forge yesterday.  And the reminder that rebar can be terrible - twisting a little utility handle square a little too cold and it just snapped - the grain was at least 0.25mm without having quenched it. I'm guessing there are a lot of "interesting" toyota parts in that piece of scrap bar.  And I have a lot of it lying around after the build. 
I'll snap some new shop pictures and add them to my thread later today.


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## YotaBota (Jul 3, 2022)

PaulL said:


> I'm guessing there are a lot of "interesting" toyota parts in that piece of scrap bar.


Hey, watch the dissing of Yota's! LOL
In your defense, some yota's don't have a lot of metal left to scrap.


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## PaulL (Jul 3, 2022)

YotaBota said:


> Hey, watch the dissing of Yota's! LOL
> In your defense, some yota's don't have a lot of metal left to scrap.
> View attachment 24787


That's rather shocking.  This the one you're looking for a donor frame for?


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## YotaBota (Jul 3, 2022)

Found a frame, just cleaning and painting.
@SomeGuy - sorry for the tangent, sometimes it's hard to resist.


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## CWret (Jul 3, 2022)

DRO/CNC??? - I’m about to plunge into milling- I’ve never cut a chip on a mill before.  I’m confused. Like SomeGuy - I’ll have to do some more learning/research/thinking. 
I thought a mill with a DRO would be a great start. Then I’d learn the  basic and maybe (?) upgrade to CNC. But I don’t have any plans to go CNC. Starting with a CNC mill seems like jumping into the deep end and hoping you can learn to swim. 
FYI: I’ve had a couple of bad experiences with looking for a used mill in the size range of a cx601. I’m leaning towards getting a new Precision Mathews PM30mv which comes with an installed DRO (700us$ option)


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## DPittman (Jul 3, 2022)

Boy if you can swing a pm30mv with a dro installed think that would be a very sweet way to start!
I'm not into cnc, nor likely to ever be   so my opinion on that may not be particularly relevant but.....I think you need to make some chips and projects for quite some time on a manual machine before being able to determine if cnc is right for you.


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## jcdammeyer (Jul 3, 2022)

I have a Shumatech DRO-350 on my mill and it uses the caliper type scales with the strange protocol.  I replaced the scale batteries with brass tube fabrications that looked like batteries but had capacitors.  I have a spare un-assembled DRO-350.  I intended to upgrade or add a DRO to the lathe so I bought and assembled a DRO-550 kit but other than testing haven't used it.  A spare set of parts for that one too.

Although the web site is alive I don't think he sells them anymore.  https://www.shumatech.com/web/products
Chinese products effectively killed that market.

I like having a separate DRO on my CNC conversion.  It showed me that one of my DC servo motors was missing steps and didn't return to the starting position.  As it turns out that motor had twice the inductance and winding resistance as the other 'identical' motor.  I switched over to AC servos and haven't looked back.

My mill also came with power feed on the X so it was handy that way too.  And with one of the battery touch probes, although I never connected it, I did use the find center feature that let me touch off between to edges of a circle or square and the DRO function would set the DRO zero to the middle.  Very handy.


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## YotaBota (Jul 4, 2022)

The PF's prices are all over the place and most are the same unit, WEN DING. This is the one I bought and it is working well so far. I like the long handle for direction change rather than the rotary switch on some other models.


			https://www.amazon.ca/BestEquip-Al-310S-Traverse-Bridgeport-Machines/dp/B076DF241M/ref=sr_1_5?crid=WZMLK0DPT4DK&keywords=power%2Bfeed%2Bfor%2Bmilling%2Bmachine&qid=1656952039&sprefix=power%2Bfeed%2Caps%2C137&sr=8-5&th=1
		

Some people have needed to make shims or bushings or mountings for non-BP machines (myself included) but that hasn't been a big issue for most. There are a few threads on installs here if you do a search.


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## Degen (Jul 4, 2022)

My power feed lasted about a year and a half, mind you it got USED, I suspect that my use matched most for at least 10-15 years equivalent.

Over all they work well, but it was the final step that got me to go CNC.


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## jcdammeyer (Jul 4, 2022)

Mine was working fine when I took it off.  It's in a box and will go with the mill if someone doesn't want the CNC.  But that's a long time in the future.


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## Susquatch (Jul 5, 2022)

CWret said:


> DRO/CNC??? - I’m about to plunge into milling- I’ve never cut a chip on a mill before.  I’m confused. Like SomeGuy - I’ll have to do some more learning/research/thinking.
> I thought a mill with a DRO would be a great start. Then I’d learn the  basic and maybe (?) upgrade to CNC. But I don’t have any plans to go CNC. Starting with a CNC mill seems like jumping into the deep end and hoping you can learn to swim.
> FYI: I’ve had a couple of bad experiences with looking for a used mill in the size range of a cx601. I’m leaning towards getting a new Precision Mathews PM30mv which comes with an installed DRO (700us$ option)



I'm sorry @CWret , I missed your post somehow. I see you didn't get a response.

If you have the coin and the Precision Mathews meets your size needs, I'd almost always recommend buying new like that.

Personally, I'm too much of a penny pincher and almost always buy used and then repair/recondition. My approach usually wins and I end up $ ahead, but once in a while it doesn't and I end up in the hole. If I put a $ value on my time, I would almost always buy new.

The nice thing about new is that you are up and running right away. The nice thing about used is that you come to know your machine inside out.

Of course, I have my own view on the issue of plain vanilla vs DRO vs CNC. Others will no doubt disagree. I am a very firm believer in walking before you run. Some say you automatically learn to walk if you try to run first. Well...., that's their opinion not mine. I will always advocate a plain vanilla machine first. Learn to use it and learn to use it well. If you want cnc after that, either add it or trade your manual machine in and get a cnc machine to replace it. I don't have, and don't ever plan to have, cnc. It's not even on my list of wants. But that doesn't mean I look down my nose at CNC. I was part of the generation that brought CNC to industry. CAD/CAM was my whole life for a while. But fundamentally, I am a journey guy, not a destination guy. My joy is in making the part with my hands, not holding the finished part in my hands. I spent what seems like a lifetime as part of a CAD world. Now, I want to smell the roses and enjoy the journey of machining a block of metal into something beautiful.

I did add a 4-Axis DRO to my mill, and I am very glad that I did. But I don't always use it. I didn't even turn it on for the last two jobs I did. I may add Power Feed to my mill someday, but I'm in no rush even for that. I have no plans in my lifetime to add CNC.


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## CWret (Jul 5, 2022)

Thanks for your insight @Susquatch - very much appreciated. If I end up with a mill without a DRO then I'll take your advise and get comfortable with it before looking for a DRO. By the way --- Ali is now offering a Ditron SINO 3 axis LCD @ 500.80 Ca$ with free shipping and that's without any haggling.
In a previous career I knew rock drilling inside out and I had no issues with buying a used (or abused) rock drill because new or used it would spend months in the shop to be torn apart/rebuilt and modified to suit our specialize purposes (see my Avatar).
I have no milling experience - so that is why I'm looking for a used mill in nearly new condition or I'll  just bit the bullet & get new. Finding a used mill in excellent condition is a bit of a challenge. Milling for me is like sailing into unchartered waters - so I don't need added complications that a used mill might present. Also - I'm good at fixing things - but things I understand.
If I do go with the PM 30MV with a DRO, again I will take your advise and just leave the DRO turned off until I learn the basics of milling & the new machine.

Enjoy the hobby:
  - I like to make things, it's great satisfaction but I don't want to waste time fixing stuff that should be making my goal easier.
  - If I break it, then fixing it is usually fun.

Added plus for getting a PM mill with a DRO - Blondihacks has a good video explaining how the PM DRO works.

Also - I too have no intentions of ever going CNC. 

Thanks again
Craig


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## Susquatch (Jul 5, 2022)

CWret said:


> By the way --- Ali is now offering a Ditron SINO 3 axis LCD @ 500.80 Ca$ with free shipping



Assuming that is a sale price, which I doubt, then here is what you do. 

You open a chat and ask what that price includes. Next you ask how much it will be for a 4 axis magnetic scale unit. If they are hot for a deal, they will say we will give you same price. At which time you ask about 1 micron. If they say same price, you ask about rpm. 

If at any time they say too much more money, you say thank you but you cant afford that. If they don't come down you just stop haggling and wait a week, then chat them again the same way. And so forth and so on. Might be good to try at month end too when they need to make their quotas. 

For big stuff like this they keep a log of your chats so they will know they need to give you a deal or you won't buy. It's really all about who blinks first and who has the biggest need.


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## CWret (Jul 5, 2022)

In the end - you both win. They make a sale and you get a better deal. Life should be so simple!

Great way to shop. Thanks for the advice.


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## Hruul (Jul 6, 2022)

Congrats on the new mill!!


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## SomeGuy (Jul 12, 2022)

The highly anticipated (lol well I can pretend that's the case anyway) video on getting the lathe, setting it up, and first cuts:


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## trlvn (Jul 12, 2022)

Woohoo, chips!

The only suggestion I'd offer is to separate the vise from the swivel base to increase rigidity and get back a little Z height.  

Craig


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## SomeGuy (Jul 12, 2022)

trlvn said:


> Woohoo, chips!
> 
> The only suggestion I'd offer is to separate the vise from the swivel base to increase rigidity and get back a little Z height.
> 
> Craig



Yeah, guess that makes sense, unless I need the swivel for a cut, no point in having it there.

Thanks!


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## CWret (Jul 12, 2022)

CHIPS!!
Great - well done.
Nice engine hoist


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## SomeGuy (Jul 12, 2022)

CWret said:


> CHIPS!!
> Great - well done.
> Nice engine hoist



Thanks!

Perhaps you can borrow it again someday soon


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## 6.5 Fan (Jul 12, 2022)

I also removed my base from the vise, gives a little more room.


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## LenVW (Jul 13, 2022)

Throw those chips !!
Work with that mill and get to know its capabilities.

To ensure rigidity use all your axis locks, even in the plane you are cutting.
The locks will minimize any chatter that the cutters will produce.

Try to mill towards your ‘fixed’ vise jaw. 
If you are squaring stock, some machinists even use a round pin between the moving vise jaw and the stock piece to ensure that the part is held to the ’fixed’ jaw. Just make sure that the vise is trammed square.


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