# Anyone tried the Accusize 5C collet chuck?



## Upnorth (Dec 17, 2022)

Like the title says has anyone tried it? The price is pretty good  but is it a decent chuck? What sort of runout did you get?

I'll pay 4 times the price for a bison one if I have to but I really don't want to. I'm only interested in 5C options because I just picked up a set of Lyndex 5C collets. 1/16" to 1 1/8" in 1/16" steps.


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## combustable herbage (Dec 17, 2022)

This thread may help









						Collet Chuck information
					

My lathe is a Craftex B2227L 10"x18", with a spindle bore of 27mm/1" and #4 Morse taper. Been thinking on getting a Collet chuck for my lathe although never used one before. Looking at the collet chuck listings on KBC I become totally confused from their data. CNC simply does NOT fit my wants or...




					canadianhobbymetalworkers.com


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## thestelster (Dec 17, 2022)

Thread '5C Collet Chuck' https://canadianhobbymetalworkers.com/threads/5c-collet-chuck.5317/


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## Susquatch (Dec 17, 2022)

Upnorth said:


> Like the title says has anyone tried it? The price is pretty good  but is it a decent chuck? What sort of runout did you get?
> 
> I'll pay 4 times the price for a bison one if I have to but I really don't want to. I'm only interested in 5C options because I just picked up a set of Lyndex 5C collets. 1/16" to 1 1/8" in 1/16" steps.



Normally, I would vote for the accusize. But maybe not this time.

Unlike other chucks that can be trued, there isn't a great deal the average user could do to true a 5C Collet Chuck short of using a toolpost grinder very carefully. The chuck is the center of the universe. 

I have a bison 5c that I absolutely love. It lives on my lathe more than all the other chucks I have combined. 

If it ever died, I'd go get another one in a heart beat. 

Without ever trying the accusize, I'd still vote to save your looneys and toonies to buy the Bison. 

If you do get the accusize, get it on amazon. That way it is zero pain to return it. It's easy to check it.


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## gerritv (Dec 17, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Unlike other chucks that can be trued, there isn't a great deal the average user could do to true a 5C Collet Chuck short of using a toolpost grinder very carefully. The chuck is the center of the universe.


You true it by moving the chuck on the backplate, just like any other plate mounted chuck. Leave a bit of wiggle room on the locating boss on the mounting plate. Tippy-tap into submission and tighten the bolts. Of course the backplate is trued first.
I bought mine from All Industrial in excited states because it came with the correct backplate for my King 1022. Stopped fiddling when I got to 0.0002 runout.


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## Susquatch (Dec 17, 2022)

gerritv said:


> You true it by moving the chuck on the backplate, just like any other plate mounted chuck. Leave a bit of wiggle room on the locating boss on the mounting plate. Tippy-tap into submission and tighten the bolts. Of course the backplate is trued first.
> I bought mine from All Industrial in excited states because it came with the correct backplate for my King 1022. Stopped fiddling when I got to 0.0002 runout.



Hmmmm...... I don't believe my bison has a backplate. I could easily be mistaken but looking at the Accusize 5C on line and zooming in on the photos does not "appear" to show one either.  There are no screws on the back and although there are a few holes in the front, they don't appear to be for a backplate. Accusize also describes the chuck as being an integrated design. But I guess it's a question that @Upnorth could ask of Accusize. Or maybe if someone who has one could chime in as per Upnorth's original request.

If it does have a backplate and if the register isn't too solid, that would certainly work.

My Bison was only a few tenths right out of the box. I have loved it since the day I first installed it.


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## gerritv (Dec 17, 2022)

I forgot that some of you have these fancy machines  with DI style spindles.
Personally I have been pleased with Accusize, but I realize some ppl are more risk averse. Buying from Amazon for me doesn't inspire any additional confidence except perhaps ease of return.

Given that the lathe is a 13x40, it should have a spindle bore big enough to take a MT->5C adapter and skip the chuck altogether.


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## PeterT (Dec 17, 2022)

Do a forum search here on 5C, the topic comes up a lot. Clough42 also did a recent review of his Asian import. Some have been satisfied, others not so. Also depends on what you are trying to achieve & condition of your machine. Accusize imports/distributes Chinese tooling but whether they are selective to various Chinese manufacturers I cant say. It may or may mot be any better than others, its difficult to compare. The consensus seems to be that their return policy seems to be OK, shipping back at your expense wouldn't be horrible, they are in Canada, so there's that.

FWIW my direct mount D1-4 new Bison 5C ~15 years ago had ~0.0015" runout. I sold it when a good deal presented on a Set-Tru model which can be dialed in. But Bison prices have gone through the roof. There are import versions of Set-Tru now which might be worth considering, but no personal experience. Gator line is dimensionally the same as Bison but ~80% quality IMO based on scroll chucks I have & price wise are more than regular Chinese, not as commonly distributed

strangely, better Bison prices than in Kanuckistan all fees & expenses in


			Manual Collet Chucks
		


based on my R8 collet experience. I would consider these guys for collets (mentioning this to others, your Lyndex are top shelf keepers)





						Products - Tool Holding - Collets, Closers & Accessories - Collets - 5C Collets - Page 1 - All Industrial Tool Supply
					






					allindustrial.com


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## Degen (Dec 17, 2022)

I have one, haven't checked it yet, I know that they did an upgrade recently.  Their after sales service is good.


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## David_R8 (Dec 17, 2022)

I bought one of the eBay specials5C chucks that Clough42 bought. With care in making the backplate and some dialling in afterward I was able to get .0005 runout. Plenty good enough for me.


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## PeterT (Dec 17, 2022)

Stefan did a video on his Chinese 5C teardown inspect. Note its 6 years old already so things change. His old lathe had backplate style where chuck is front bolted, so allows adjusting (as long as it stays put). Some guys have made their own Set-Tru-ish plates for D spindle using a semi-finished chuck adapter plate (finished spindle taper turned & D-pins installed). They turn this in-situ with a slightly larger ID relief pocket for a front mount style 5C chuck & then drill tap their own set screws.





Clough42 follow-up video FWIW (of course the question is will Chinese chuck A be the same as Chinese chuck B)


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## robert million (Dec 17, 2022)

precision matthews sells a set tru type 5c


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## Susquatch (Dec 17, 2022)

gerritv said:


> Personally I have been pleased with Accusize, but I realize some ppl are more risk averse. Buying from Amazon for me doesn't inspire any additional confidence except perhaps ease of return.



It isn't just the returns. Amazon also makes the delivery FAST, painless, and free if you have prime. Sometimes they even sell Accusize products at lower cost than Accusize.

What I like best about the Accusize Amazon partnership (if you can call it that) is that you can order from Amazon and then call Accusize directly if something isn't right. They have ALWAYS looked after me.



gerritv said:


> Given that the lathe is a 13x40, it should have a spindle bore big enough to take a MT->5C adapter and skip the chuck altogether.



I've never tried this option for any collet system yet, but I do think about it often since I have ER 32, 24, & 11 collet systems for my mill.

The nice thing about the 5C Collet Chuck is that it doesn't need a draw bar and can handle long stock that extends into the spindle. But not everyone needs or wants that.


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## PeterT (Dec 17, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> It isn't just the returns. Amazon also makes the delivery FAST, painless, and free if you have prime. Sometimes they even sell Accusize products at lower cost than Accusize.
> What I like best about the Accusize Amazon partnership (if you can call it that) is that you can order from Amazon and then call Accusize directly if something isn't right. They have ALWAYS looked after me.


Turns out that Amazon returns, both Prime & otherwise, is kind of a fluid situation lately & often region specific. A few months back a return involved printing a label. Option 1: pickup from yor home via Intelcom or whomever your normal delivery mode is. The catch: you must be there in person to sign it over and (the crappy part) be available within a 12 hour window or however they word it. Not great for people who work. Option 2) print a label to return ship. This used to be Canada Post of which there are typically many outlets. But Amazon fired CP & now uses Purolator. Of which there are fewer & less convenient drop locations & business hours. In other regions of Canada, maybe where couriers are more sparse, I've heard its still CP. So maybe depends.

Turns out in Calgary the Staples locations that have a shipping desk are now the Amazon courier return depots of choice. Still a personal drive though. I just did it the other day & it was relatively painless. It cost me $6.85 return fee because mistake was mine, ordered wrong item. Weight/size it was a pair of pliers essentially to give you a reference & destination was Amazon center in Calgary. If it was something real heavy, I wonder if it would be a lot more.

Accusize I believe has an Amazon 'store' which (I think) is a bit different than normal fulfillment sellers & why some of these Accusize-specific advantages work. Also costs of returns may well be a function of defective or missing parts or shipping damage from the drop down, vs 'I don't like it'.


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## Susquatch (Dec 17, 2022)

PeterT said:


> Accusize I believe has an Amazon 'store' which (I think) is a bit different than normal fulfillment sellers & why some of these Accusize-specific advantages work.



Yes, they do. And you might be right about that affecting the outcomes and choices. 

FWIW, I call accusize themselves. For all I know that might be same folks as the ones at the amazon store. But my sense is that they are different. For whatever reason, it works fine for me.


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## Degen (Dec 18, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Yes, they do. And you might be right about that affecting the outcomes and choices.
> 
> FWIW, I call accusize themselves. For all I know that might be same folks as the ones at the amazon store. But my sense is that they are different. For whatever reason, it works fine for me.


It is the same store.  I bought one from Amazon, free shipping of course, ordered the wrong lathe mount on it, call them directly and they did and exchange at there office no problem.  Have to say I enjoy dealing with them, and their is approx Leslie and Hwy 7 so its within east driving distance being in the GTA myself.

Just be aware that some of the stuff they sell as final sale may be a second, but then again if you can fix its a bargain.


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## Tom Kitta (Dec 19, 2022)

I have a 5C chuck. It needs to be ground to be true - I think from factory its off by around 1.5 thou runout.

I do not like using the "floating backplate" technique as the register should fit the chuck very well so it does not move. Holding the chuck "zero" on the bolts was never intended.

Grinding seems to be a better way to go.

I paid like 160 CAD or so for mine. So not a bad deal. Like 2 years ago.


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## YotaBota (Dec 19, 2022)

Your machine takes a D1-4 mount doesn't it? 

Are you in a hurry or do you have time to wait ( within reason) for the used market to cough one up?


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## Upnorth (Dec 19, 2022)

Thanks for all the responses. Looks like this place is going to be a good source of information. I was surprised to get so many responses.

I'm still tempted to give one of the Accusize chucks a try. Price is less than the back plate for a bison. One of the above post's had a link to a place with great prices on a Bison. If that place will take paypal I'm going to order a Bison. Probably the set-tru version. I have some funds in there I need to use on something.

In my search for information I did run across something interesting. I mentioned that I had recently run across a set of Lyndex collets. Some people who ordered them got collets marked "Made in India". I have had issues with Indian made machining products that were absolute garbage. The exception to this for me was my Indian made parting blade. It was sold by KBC and works excellent. The set of Lyndex collets I have are made in Japan so I was happy about that.


YotaBota said:


> Your machine takes a D1-4 mount doesn't it?
> 
> Are you in a hurry or do you have time to wait ( within reason) for the used market to cough one up?


Yes it's a D1-4. One of the earlier posted links was to a place that has the Bison plain back collet chuck for $500 US. I'm ok with that price. The set-tru version is only $50 more. A direct mount one from Accusize is about $370 CDN. I expect that the collet chuck will be getting a lot of use in the shop. There is a product I make that a collet chuck will make a lot easier. 

I'm currently waiting on a phone call for work in the new year. If it comes though I wont be in a hurry at all because I'll be away for a few months. If not I expect to order a chuck shortly. At this point I'm tempted to give the accusize chuck a try. The issue with that is if I want to be around to try it right away and see if it is accurate enough. By the time I get home it won't be returnable. If I do go away I'll probably order the bison so it will be here when I get home.


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## YotaBota (Dec 19, 2022)

All you can do is try the Accusize, if it works for you then it's money in the bank, if not then send it back.


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## PeterT (Dec 19, 2022)

I read somewhere that Lyndex outsourced some of its products including some collets, but I thought to somewhere in Asia. Maybe not necessarily bad but its all about QC behind the name. I would be shocked if they were made in India. You could call KBC or one of the Lyndex distributers & they could probably tell you country of origin. Now are there knockoff Lyndex on Ebay using the name, the price but not the quality? It would not surprise me.


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## PeterT (Dec 19, 2022)

Upnorth said:


> Yes it's a D1-4. One of the earlier posted links was to a place that has the Bison plain back collet chuck for $500 US. I'm ok with that price. The set-tru version is only $50 more.



Caution. The Bison Set-Tru 5C chuck may cost slightly more than regular/Di-direct mount 5C, but you need to include the D1-4/Set-Tru ADAPTER in order to mount the ST chuck. They are specific parts & adds to total cost, I did see some Ebay deals on ST chucks (only) but the numbers didn't go round to buy adapter separately, more shipping etc. It was cheaper to buy the combo set.



			Manual Collet Chucks


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## YotaBota (Dec 19, 2022)

Are you looking for a 5C chuck because you already have the collets?

Just going to throw this to you, have you thought about going ER40 for the lathe? I have a PM TruTurn style ER40 chuck and collets and am very happy with them.





						ER-40 Adjustable Collet Chuck, D1-4 Mount – Precision Matthews Machinery Co.
					






					www.precisionmatthews.com
				








						ER-40 Adjustable Collet Chuck, D1-4 Mount – Precision Matthews Machinery Co.
					






					www.precisionmatthews.com
				




Matt has an Ebay site (can't find it right now) that does away with all the shipping nonsense., not sure about this, I thought it was .ca.

Edit - here is the Ebay site for Matt,
https://www.ebay.com/str/qualitymachinetools


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## Upnorth (Dec 19, 2022)

PeterT said:


> Caution. The Bison Set-Tru 5C chuck may cost slightly more than regular/Di-direct mount 5C, but you need to include the D1-4/Set-Tru ADAPTER in order to mount the ST chuck. They are specific parts & adds to total cost, I did see some Ebay deals on ST chucks (only) but the numbers didn't go round to buy adapter separately, more shipping etc. It was cheaper to buy the combo set.
> 
> 
> 
> Manual Collet Chucks


Yeah I'm aware that the set-tru model needs a special adaptor. I think (but have not confirmed) that Shar's has a suitable back plate for about $100 USD. I did recently see a few of the correct Bison back plates on Ebay that were cheap and in Canada. That was before I decided to get a 5C chuck though.


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## PeterT (Dec 19, 2022)

I thought Shars had a system too. Strange, when you type in 5c it shows in drop down but never really comes up. And the regular chucks all out of stock.






						shars.com - Lathe Chucks
					

Shop Shars Tool today and see why customers choose our high quality lathe chucks at a great value, same-day shipping, and dedicated customer support.




					www.shars.com


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## Upnorth (Dec 19, 2022)

YotaBota said:


> Are you looking for a 5C chuck because you already have the collets?
> 
> Just going to throw this to you, have you thought about going ER40 for the lathe? I have a PM TruTurn style ER40 chuck and collets and am very happy with them.
> 
> ...


I did consider getting an ER style collet chuck. I already have a few collets around that I use on one of my milling machines. ER-32. I am going with 5C because I already have the collets. I recently picked up a set of 1/16" to 1 1/8" by 16ths Lyndex 5C collets for $100. That made the 5C chuck my choice. The Bison 5C is for my manual lathe.

I may still go with one of the ER type chucks for the CNC lathe when I get that going. The mini Bison 5C that would be suitable for the CNC lathe is the 4" one which is pricey.


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## Upnorth (Dec 19, 2022)

PeterT said:


> I thought Shars had a system too. Strange, when you type in 5c it shows in drop down but never really comes up. And the regular chucks all out of stock.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Here is a link to the back plate I was looking at.






						5" D1-4 Threaded Black Plate for ER40 Zero Set Adjustment Collet Chuck
					

Shars Tool




					www.shars.com


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## PeterT (Dec 19, 2022)

The Bison PN is 7-875-054 to compare dimensions



			5" BISON D1-4  Back Plate for SET-TRU Bison Chucks 7-875-054


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## Susquatch (Dec 19, 2022)

@Upnorth - Just a small reminder that my bison only has a few tenths runout WITHOUT the set true backplate right out of the box. Because of the precision nose, the D1 spindle series are totally capable of that. My D1-5 is awesome. If I were you, I'd be giving the non-set-tru version a try before I plunked down more cash than necessary.


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## PeterT (Dec 19, 2022)

My D1-4 spindle nose is ~ 0.0001" TIR & my D1-4 integrated Bison direct mount 5C collet chuck was ~ 0.0015" on its best pin orientation. Maybe a day after the Euro soccer match model, LOL. Sometimes mating runouts can serve to cancel against one another to a reduced net amount. But by the same probability they could also oppose one another & therefore exaggerate TIR. With a direct mount, you get what you get, that's the end of the trail. With a SetTru type system you have the ability to decrease. Bison rates all their 5C chucks 0.0004" TIR btw (including the SetTru) so my guess is the reference means repeatability of the collet seat as opposed to a mounted assembly like integrated spindle nose seat? Otherwise how could they similarly define TIR of a plain back or integrated screw back 5C for example which has higher potential mounting runout allowance? Its been a while since I looked but one of the other big name 5C chuck manufacturers had a different way of stating TIR but my memory is fading. 

Of course, collets & everything else fore & aft of the chuck body within the lathe assembly can affect the bottom line outcome. What is necessary or affordable is a personal choice IMO.


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## PeterT (Dec 19, 2022)

Bison Toolmex link



			https://www.toolmex.com/customer/docs/MegaCatalog/BisWorkRotaryCatalogRev.pdf


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## Darren (Dec 19, 2022)

Here's my 5" Bison Set Tru when it was on my Emco V10p. Was able to dial it in pretty close. If I was needing collets, I'd definitely want a set Tru type. 

I made the set true backplate from an old pulley. When I transferred it to my new V13, i bought and modified a D1-4 backplate.


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## PeterT (Dec 19, 2022)

I've seen different ideas for how folks have made their own adjustable fixtures for various chucks & work holder devices. Generally its a variation of:
- back end that fits the spindle
- some kind of slightly oversized recess pocket that encapsulates the chuck, or undersize boss that fits within the chuck recess 
- 4 opposing set screws to dial it in radially, like a 4J chuck essentially
- provisions to laterally secure the chuck parallel to spindle axis

ER40 collet plate married to a beefy D1-4 adapter









						ER40 Adjust True Lathe Chuck D1-4 Camlock
					

Click on the photos for descriptions




					www.flickr.com


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## PeterT (Dec 19, 2022)

Darren said:


> Here's my 5" Bison Set Tru when it was on my Emco V10p.



Do you recall your spindle runout of your 2 EMCO spindles? Is the V10p a thread nose?


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## Darren (Dec 19, 2022)

I was not able to measure the spindle runout. I don't have anything precise enough, to be honest. The V10p was a threaded spindle with a locking collar. The V13 is a D1-4.  The V13 results are similar. The threaded spindle of the V10p was remarkably repeatable, where the D1-4 actually takes a bit of care .

Forget the spindle though, that chuck is dead nuts on when you consider i was measuring 4-5"? out from the jaws.  For that reason, for myself, I don't do enough multiple parts to really warrant a collet setup but if i did, I'd want a set tru for sure, no doubt.


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## Susquatch (Dec 20, 2022)

FWIW, I agree that the set tru approach is the more certain one. It is also the more expensive one. 

If I could potentially save a few hundred by evaluating one or three D1-3 integrated collet chucks to find one that met my needs, I'd prolly go that way. 

Hence my suggestion to buy via Amazon. The worst that can happen is that none of the ones you try work out. So you give up, they all get returned, and you end up having to spend the coin to go the set-tru route. 

In the absence of cost concerns and/or with business time constraints, I'd go set tru right up front.


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## PeterT (Dec 20, 2022)

@Susquatch are you sure everything on Amazon is free returns? That doesn't seem consistent with vendor/Amazon policy or experiences I have encountered or read about, particularly when they originate from China (which is by & large the remainder I see available outside of Accusize). Even where people have submitted pictures/video of issues the sellers often play the stall game or maybe offer to send a replacement at some token discount because shipping is expensive. The economics of holding a boat anchor don't go around, but that's just my opinion.

Sounds like Accusize will do this, although I'm not sure they will absorb cost of 3 in a row until you are satisfied.







						About Our Returns Policies - Amazon Customer Service
					

Amazon.ca and most sellers on Amazon.ca offer returns for items within 30 days of receipt of shipment.



					www.amazon.ca


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## TorontoBuilder (Dec 20, 2022)

PeterT said:


> @Susquatch are you sure everything on Amazon is free returns? That doesn't seem consistent with vendor/Amazon policy or experiences I have encountered or read about, particularly when they originate from China (which is by & large the remainder I see available outside of Accusize). Even where people have submitted pictures/video of issues the sellers often play the stall game or maybe offer to send a replacement at some token discount because shipping is expensive. The economics of holding a boat anchor don't go around, but that's just my opinion.
> 
> Sounds like Accusize will do this, although I'm not sure they will absorb cost of 3 in a row until you are satisfied.
> 
> ...


something to be mindful of, Amazon sometimes bans customers who have a high return rate. So be sure to not try this in short order with consecutive purchases.


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## Susquatch (Dec 20, 2022)

PeterT said:


> @Susquatch are you sure everything on Amazon is free returns? That doesn't seem consistent with vendor/Amazon policy or experiences I have encountered or read about, particularly when they originate from China (which is by & large the remainder I see available outside of Accusize).
> 
> Sounds like Accusize will do this, although I'm not sure they will absorb cost of 3 in a row until you are satisfied.



Yes, that's an issue I had intended to address in my post and then forgot. I'm always trying to find ways to shorten my posts cuz they are usually far too long.

I have a prime membership. Living on a farm makes Amazon attractive. The prime membership saves a ton on shipping and also improves the return experience. Amazon has NEVER given me a problem on anything I bought through prime. But this is also why I prefer to buy from Amazon and then call Accusize to get a replacement or deal with an issue. It is important to deal with the real issue, not some baked up reason to return something. In this case, Accusize gives a precision rating on the collet chuck. So if it doesn't meet that claim Accusize actually prefers to deal with you direct. I think it saves them from getting a black mark from Amazon. In those few times when it happened, I have returned the same item to accusize multiple times. Usually, I give them the reason and they will check their inventory to find me a good one. On one occasion they even provided me with copies of their correspondence with their supplier and I pointed out how the supplier was screwing them. Accusize was exceptionally grateful for my help. I got good parts the next time.

I also understand that Amazon has toughened up their return policy just recently. Hence my earlier comment - no bullshite. If you are guilty of screwing up, fess up and bear the consequences. I believe Amazon respects that and it builds your reputation. On the other hand if you are constantly returning everything you buy, I'd fully expect to be building a bad reputation and eventually get the boot as @TorontoBuilder suggests.


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## David_R8 (Dec 20, 2022)

I have bought a huge amount of products from Amazon for my CNC router build and general shop stuff and returned a bunch as well. I have never been charged for a return and never had any issues because of high return rate.
I've also opened a number of tickets with them because something got delayed or mis-delivered. Basically I don't give them an inch of latitude since they have one of the largest (if not the largest) logistics chains in the world and have had years to sort out issues.


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## thestelster (Dec 20, 2022)

But before you decry that a lathe chuck is unacceptable, whether it's a 3-jaw, 4-jaw, or collet, you better measure your spindle nose first.  

Below is what Accusize requires for you to achieve their stated TIR.  (those numbers are metric.  The equivalent conversion is  0.00016"  &    0.0002")

And Bison wants 0.0001" accuracy on those surfaces.
​The method of measuring 0269-5C Collet Chucks​1. CHECK THE RUNOUT OF THE LATHE SPINDLE FIRST. ADJUST THE RUNOUT VALUE OF THE NOSE WITHIN 0.004MM; OF CYLINDER OR TAPER WITHIN 0.004MM SHOWN BELOW.​






And, though you might say, well, I'll get a Set-Tru, or Adjust Tru, or just use a 4-jaw and indicate it in.  And yes, that will work, but only at that spot where you are indicating.  If there is any run out at your spindle nose, no matter what you do, you will have run out further out on your work piece.

But does it really matter?  It depends.  If you are machining a part on the lathe, and you do all the work while it is in the chuck, it will come out perfectly fine.  

But if you have to take that part out, and then you determine you forgot to machine feature on it, and then you go to re-chuck it, it will not run true for the whole length of the part, even if you re-adjust the set screws, it would only have zero run-out at that spot you are indicating.

So before you decide on anything, measure your spindle nose, and then determine whether a Set-True feature is useful.


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## Susquatch (Dec 20, 2022)

thestelster said:


> But before you decry that a lathe chuck is unacceptable, whether it's a 3-jaw, 4-jaw, or collet, you better measure your spindle nose first.
> 
> Below is what Accusize requires for you to achieve their stated TIR.  (those numbers are metric.  The equivalent conversion is  0.00016"  &    0.0002")
> 
> ...



Great advice @thestelster, I always forget that not everyone knows that. But you did more than that by also looking up the numbers and referencing them! That should make the whole process a lot easier! 

I should add that SOMETIMES as @PeterT has pointed out, you can rotate the chuck to different mounting studs and cancel out or reduce runout. It isn't something you can count on though.


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## PeterT (Dec 20, 2022)

Actually I am somewhat confused by the Accusize D1-4 direct mount 0269-0014 instructions. The video pertains to ER collets & nothing to do with 5C chucks, but set that aside. I understand the requirement to validate the spindle nose because any runout there just takes the chuck along for the ride. Now if one discovers spindle runout/geometry issues I'm guessing its re-grind or re-dress time, but anyway, I agree, its not the chuck's fault on that basis.



			https://www.amazon.ca/Accusize-Integral-CAMLOCK-Mounting-0269-0014/dp/B00U31M6EO/ref=sr_1_5?crid=1CFF51WQABGWO&keywords=5c+collet+chuck&qid=1671577418&sprefix=5c+collet+chuc%2Caps%2C636&sr=8-5
		


their step-1. What is this picture of? A lathe spindle removed from lathe & held in a test devise, or? (It doesn't look like a lathe headstock). The runout values along the lateral cross plane & nose runout & nose seem reasonable. I can understand if the nose is worn, curved, eccentric, deviated taper angle... any combination of dimensional issues where it is not a geometric cone section axial with the spindle shaft & perpendicular to the vertical face, then the chuck will probably not mount correctly & runout issues will ensue. So far so good.






I don't understand this step as it pertains to a direct mount integrated chuck. Screw lock? Cam lock? Multiple strokes crossly? What is he pointing at behind the chuck?
a/p cross section sketch below, if the rear chuck body element has the spindle nose profile factory ground & boss accurately fits the chuck front body recess, what is there remaining to adjust?










I think they are saying now chuck a reference bar & measure runout at both inboard & outboard position relative to collet nose? Makes sense. A cocked chuck may have low runout near the collet nose but be exaggerated at some distance (example 51mm = 2") away? I guess that is where the 0.0006" comes from. Presumably collet must have now entered the picture (no stated runout)? But this assembly is still not in the lathe?


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## PeterT (Dec 20, 2022)

thestelster said:


> And, though you might say, well, I'll get a Set-Tru, or Adjust Tru, or just use a 4-jaw and indicate it in.  And yes, that will work, but only at that spot where you are indicating.  If there is any run out at your spindle nose, no matter what you do, you will have run out further out on your work piece.
> 
> But if you have to take that part out, and then you determine you forgot to machine feature on it, and then you go to re-chuck it, it will not run true for the whole length of the part, even if you re-adjust the set screws, it would only have zero run-out at that spot you are indicating.



I think I agree but the devil is in the details

Here we have runout of the spindle face. Blue line shows deviation to red zero datum. Could be wear, trapped debris or maybe the whole spindle is bent. If the chuck is engaged to the spindle via cam locks like this it will yaw the chuck nose down. Runout will be worse outboard than close to the collet as the Accusize picture shows,





SetTru principle (blue) spindle nose profile has runout or eccentricity or undersize wear relative to (red) rotation axis. But the vertical face is accurate. A direct mount chuck would either be influenced by the spindle nose or allowed to float up the face depending on actual condition. A direct mount could deviate to runout (green line) whereas SetTru adjustment screws (green arrows) adjust chuck body axis back to rotation axis like a 4J independent chuck. Unlike jaws of a 4J independent chuck, the collet/chuck position is preserved, so if the collet repeats & D-mount repeats, supposedly the part should repeat. Now I'm not sure how realistic or common or plausible this form of deviation is but I think its the adjustment principle they are trying to solve. Recognizing the SetTru backplate is yet another intermediary plate, it cannot correct gross spindle distortion like above sketch. But OTOH there is no bolt solution that can compensate for a bent spindle condition, floating bearings, things like that.


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## TorontoBuilder (Dec 20, 2022)

PeterT said:


> Actually I am somewhat confused by the Accusize D1-4 direct mount 0269-0014 instructions. The video pertains to ER collets & nothing to do with 5C chucks, but set that aside. I understand the requirement to validate the spindle nose because any runout there just takes the chuck along for the ride. Now if one discovers spindle runout/geometry issues I'm guessing its re-grind or re-dress time, but anyway, I agree, its not the chuck's fault on that basis.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Here is the correct video


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## Susquatch (Dec 20, 2022)

@PeterT - you are giving me a headache. Lol! 

I didn't dig into it nearly as much as you did. I just looked at what @thestelster quoted and said "ya, he is right. I should have suggested that too". 

But taking a closer look at the photos provided by Amazon, I have no clue what I am looking at either! The only photo that matters is the squareness and concentricity runout. That makes sense. The other photo prolly doesn't belong. 

I have often wondered about your question regarding chuck tilt. I don't have enough info about the interface to know how that is handled or how it works. Perhaps @Dabbler or @RobinHood or @Mcgyver knows. I just picked 3 guys who might know - there are others too but I'd have thought you and I would know too so.......

I did get a tiny chip in the flat nose recess of my 4 jaw once that made a tiny impression. So it's a very tight fit, and I have always assumed it's a contact fit. But if so, how do you ensure concentricity? About all I can say (with considerable shame) is that it works and I have never taken the time to look into it enough to understand how it works. It just does! Sad statement to have to make..... LOL


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## Degen (Dec 20, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Yes, that's an issue I had intended to address in my post and then forgot. I'm always trying to find ways to shorten my posts cuz they are usually far too long.
> 
> I have a prime membership. Living on a farm makes Amazon attractive. The prime membership saves a ton on shipping and also improves the return experience. Amazon has NEVER given me a problem on anything I bought through prime. But this is also why I prefer to buy from Amazon and then call Accusize to get a replacement or deal with an issue. It is important to deal with the real issue, not some baked up reason to return something. In this case, Accusize gives a precision rating on the collet chuck. So if it doesn't meet that claim Accusize actually prefers to deal with you direct. I think it saves them from getting a black mark from Amazon. In those few times when it happened, I have returned the same item to accusize multiple times. Usually, I give them the reason and they will check their inventory to find me a good one. On one occasion they even provided me with copies of their correspondence with their supplier and I pointed out how the supplier was screwing them. Accusize was exceptionally grateful for my help. I got good parts the next time.
> 
> I also understand that Amazon has toughened up their return policy just recently. Hence my earlier comment - no bullshite. If you are guilty of screwing up, fess up and bear the consequences. I believe Amazon respects that and it builds your reputation. On the other hand if you are constantly returning everything you buy, I'd fully expect to be building a bad reputation and eventually get the boot as @TorontoBuilder suggests.


I've had the same experience with Accusize.  Actually really easy to deal with.


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## Degen (Dec 20, 2022)

If I want real accuracy i would use a 3 jaw chuck and grind the jaws in place at the desired diameter one a running lathe.  Basically it negates run out and such at that specific diameter because the errors get cancelled in doing this setup.


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## RobinHood (Dec 20, 2022)

The thing with D1-X cam lock systems is that both the nose taper (angle AND amount of protrusion from the reference plane) AND the face of the spindle are critical surfaces. Consequently anything mounted to it must also have these three attributes: angle must be correct, taper must be deep enough and the back face concentric and square to the taper.

If the taper is too deep in the chuck, it will mount fine but won’t repeat.

If the taper in the chuck is too shallow, it will mount crooked to the spindle depending in which sequence you tighten the cam locks. It will also not repeat.

A properly machined chuck will bottom out on the taper, with just a little bit of light shining through between the back face and the spindle face. The cams will then pull the faces together. That is why you do not reef on the locking lugs in one go. I usually snug them up in two go arounds and then a third to tighten them all the way. After two cycles, I tap the chuck with a soft blow hammer. Using a torque wrench while tightening is a good idea as well.

A properly fitting D1-X chuck will not normally fall off under its own weight when all cams are loosened. The taper holds it onto the spindle nose. It takes a light tap with a soft blow to get it to come off. A loose fitting one just falls off.

The mounting instructions for the 5C collet chuck are basically saying the same thing - translated poorly from the original language into English.


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## PeterT (Dec 20, 2022)

TorontoBuilder said:


> Here is the correct video


Thanks for this. My guess is the video is a factory test rig. And Step 1,2,3.. are presumably factory rig calibration, not end user lathe setup instructions. The chuck gets mounted to the spin rig, the test bar gets drawn into mate against the collet taper seat, then indicator shows radial runout and/or angular yaw runout. Maybe that's where the 0.0006" TIR within 2" comes from? I just hope they didn't buy their 5C test bar from the same India outfit I bought my MT3 bar from LOL.


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## PaulL (Dec 20, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> and then call Accusize directly if something isn't right


This is the key.  I suspect that even with Amazon's take Accusize come out ahead by shipping to Amazon in bulk - individual orders handling is expensive!  Worse if you don't move enough goods to keep a full-time shipping person busy.


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## thestelster (Dec 20, 2022)

The Set-Thru design is only meant to adjust for radial discrepancies.  If you want a chuck to compensate for angular errors, (like a "bent spindle nose" , large run-out), then you would need a backing plate that is hemispherical and mated with the chuck body.  And if you needed to correct for run-out as well, then you would need a Set-Tru feature incorporated into the chuck design.  But all these "gizmos" is just treating the symptoms.  If you want the cure, you have to address the cause, I.e. "bent spindle nose", run-out error.

Of course if we want our parts held perfect, radially  and angularly then, as @Degen  mentioned, grinding the jaws, or soft jaws, or spiders.


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## PeterT (Dec 20, 2022)

RobinHood said:


> The thing with D1-X cam lock systems is that both the nose taper (angle AND amount of protrusion from the reference plane) AND the face of the spindle are critical surfaces. Consequently anything mounted to it must also have these three attributes: angle must be correct, taper must be deep enough and the back face concentric and square to the taper.


100% agree.

Here is a question: lets say you acquire a sub-standard backplate or chuck. The nose taper recess is slightly oblong , incorrect taper, vertical offset or whatever. If you mount & dismount to the spindle repeatedly, is there a chance you are slowly but surely distorting your lathe spindle nose? I always assumed the nose surface was hardened for this reason. I think this even came up in discussion before & opinion was that most are not. @Dabbler kept blocking the path to his lathe & changing the subject when I had my file LOL


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## Susquatch (Dec 20, 2022)

RobinHood said:


> The thing with D1-X cam lock systems is that both the nose taper (angle AND amount of protrusion from the reference plane) AND the face of the spindle are critical surfaces. Consequently anything mounted to it must also have these three attributes: angle must be correct, taper must be deep enough and the back face concentric and square to the taper.
> 
> If the taper is too deep in the chuck, it will mount fine but won’t repeat.
> 
> ...



Perfect @RobinHood. Even though I've been using a lathe for 40 years and had a D1-5 for 10, I didn't know some of that. 

I don't generally like making work for myself, and it's never been a problem (that I know of), but I like the idea of using a torque wrench on the cam locks. Besides, I hate that dumb T-Wrench anyway..... Seems to me that a click style ratcheting  torque wrench would never be a problem other than taking a slight set because it wouldnt get relaxed after each use. Once I know what I want, maybe I'd get a torque limiting extention bar instead.


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## RobinHood (Dec 20, 2022)

PeterT said:


> If you mount & dismount to the spindle repeatedly, is there a chance you are slowly but surely distorting your lathe spindle nose? I always assumed the nose surface was hardened for this reason. I think this even came up in discussion before & opinion was that most are not.


Well, being the owner of three “previously enjoyed” lathes, i have physical evidence that the taper face can be damaged by careless operators as the larger two machines had embedded chips. They were removed and the faces stoned. The dings remain, however. I don’t know how hard the spindle noses are, but they are hardened and ground.

I don’t think the spindle nose gets worn out if one is careful and keeps things clean. Any distortion while tightening chucks should only be in the plastic range and no permanent distortion should result.

I would attempt to replace a worn out (damaged beyond usefulness) taper ring on a spindle if it came to that. One would have nothing to lose as the spindle is toast without a good taper. Other choice would be to replace the whole spindle.


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## DPittman (Dec 20, 2022)

PeterT said:


> Thanks for this. My guess is the video is a factory test rig. And Step 1,2,3.. are presumably factory rig calibration, not end user lathe setup instructions. The chuck gets mounted to the spin rig, the test bar gets drawn into mate against the collet taper seat, then indicator shows radial runout and/or angular yaw runout. Maybe that's where the 0.0006" TIR within 2" comes from? I just hope they didn't buy their 5C test bar from the same India outfit I bought my MT3 bar from LOL.





PeterT said:


> India outfit I bought my MT3 bar from LOL


Hee hee I've got one of those too from likely the same outfit. Dang!


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## PeterT (Dec 20, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> I like the idea of using a torque wrench on the cam locks. Besides, I hate that dumb T-Wrench anyway.....



You could make a shorter version of this extension key - square end for camlock, hex end to match a wrench socket.


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## Mcgyver (Dec 21, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> I have often wondered about your question regarding chuck tilt. I don't have enough info about the interface to know how that is handled or how it works. Perhaps @Dabbler or @RobinHood or @Mcgyver knows. I just picked 3 guys who might know - there are others too but I'd have thought you and I would know too so.......



Robinhood gave an excellent account.  I recall hearing or reading that with the tapers engaged, you want a thou clearance on the flat.  when the cams are engage is pulls it in tight.

I've machined this sort of geometry and it worked out well using feeler gauges.  The rotary lap shown below (used mostly for sharpening scrapers), out of a crappy tire grinder, has the cast iron disks mounted using similar geometry.  Its needs repeatability (to take the wheels off for charging) very concentric and without wobble for safety and very very concentric without wobble to keep vibration to a minimum.  The AL mounts for the wheels where glued to the shaft and turned in situ.

Its challenging work as .001" DOC of the taper moves the faces .008" closer.

The face and taper mating is a challenge, but the next level up on the challenge scale imo is getting two adjacent tapers to mate; the ie. 3 & 45 degree standard instrument/watch makers double taper lathe bearing.  Unlike taper and face, there is no visibility or chance to use feeler gauges.and mates to both must be extremely close tolerances.

I haven't done so, but on a cam lock, i would consider grinding the taper and face in situ and using all new backing plates, as part of a reconditioning.  Some of taper mounts, victims of the ham fisted, are less  pristine than I'd like.  Still quite accurate though....there must be some law of averages for the bruises and warts.




thestelster said:


> And, though you might say, well, I'll get a Set-Tru, or Adjust Tru, or just use a 4-jaw and indicate it in.  And yes, that will work, but only at that spot where you are indicating.  If there is any run out at your spindle nose, no matter what you do, you will have run out further out on your work piece.



I agreed with all you wrote, but add, that even with the spindle perfect, indicating the 4 jaw or adjust true in only spot only  guarantees concentricity at the one point.  For really fussy work you have to adjust in two planes and tap it in.  Doing so to any degree of accuracy is a tedious miserable very consuming task, but nessary to make sure the work is aligned with the axis.


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## Susquatch (Dec 21, 2022)

DPittman said:


> Hee hee I've got one of those too from likely the same outfit. Dang!



I think a bunch of us bought one. I was lucky in the sense that I only bought it for the learning experience. So I had no great expectations and wasn't disappointed. Mine was just total junk. So was the shipping and delivery experience. 



PeterT said:


> You could make a shorter version of this extension key - square end for camlock, hex end to match a wrench socket.



I think it's better to just grind the end of a 1/2 extension bar to fit the chuck and skip the socket. 



Mcgyver said:


> Robinhood gave an excellent account. I recall hearing or reading that with the tapers engaged, you want a thou clearance on the flat. when the cams are engage is pulls it in tight.



What you guys are teaching me is that I have a horse shoe up my butt. All of my chucks and my back plates (I think I have 8 altogether) fit perfectly. Except for my Bison collet chuck they are all Chinese or Taiwanese. Mind you, my spider chucks are machined after mounting and indexing so who really knows about them.


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## thestelster (Dec 21, 2022)

Mcgyver said:


> I haven't done so, but on a cam lock, i would consider grinding the taper and face in situ and using all new backing plates, as part of a reconditioning. Some of taper mounts, victims of the ham fisted, are less pristine than I'd like. Still quite accurate though....there must be some law of averages for the bruises and warts.




Here is a Youtube video of that procedure by Mr. Crispin, he's a machinist working for Rolls Royce:


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## Susquatch (Dec 21, 2022)

thestelster said:


> Here is a Youtube video of that procedure by Mr. Crispin, he's a machinist working for Rolls Royce:



You guys are testing my patience. Holy crap I hate you tube. But I watched it. 

To my eye, he isn't traversing the full rear face with the grinder, just the inside portion. I must be imagining that. 

I also wonder why he paid zero attention to the front nose face. On my lathe that face is just like the rear face making contact after a thou or so of tightening. Recall that this face is where that teeny tiny chip was that I mentioned earlier.  Is this face not important too? Or does it just go along for the ride?


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## thestelster (Dec 21, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> You guys are testing my patience. Holy crap I hate you tube. But I watched it.
> 
> To my eye, he isn't traversing the full rear face with the grinder, just the inside portion. I must be imagining that.
> 
> I also wonder why he paid zero attention to the front nose face. On my lathe that face is just like the rear face making contact after a thou or so of tightening. Recall that this face is where that teeny tiny chip was that I mentioned earlier.  Is this face not important too? Or does it just go along for the ride?


The front face of the D1-xx spindle nose is not a bearing surface.


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## Susquatch (Dec 21, 2022)

thestelster said:


> The front face of the D1-xx spindle nose is not a bearing surface.



All these years, and I didn't know that!

So prolly, that tiny chip did no harm!

Thank you! 

Might make a torque adapter today. Seems like a good project for a few days before Christmas!


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## thestelster (Dec 21, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> All these years, and I didn't know that!
> 
> So prolly, that tiny chip did no harm!
> 
> ...


But do you know what torque value is required?  I don't.  I guess it doesn't really matter that much, as long as they're all even.  

I also tighten mine in a wheel bolt pattern.  1-4-2-5-3-6.  Twice.

Also the torque requirements for tightening your 3 or 4 jaw chucks are?  I have it listed in the owners manual that came with my 3-jaw.


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## Dabbler (Dec 21, 2022)

thestelster said:


> The front face of the D1-xx spindle nose is not a bearing surface.


What @RobinHood aluded to and what I have heard is quite different.  For me it is not a hill to die on.  But here goes:  when correctly positioned, the backplate must make intimate contact with the D1-x face.,  From what I understand, this prevents chuck tilt, and resists axial forces incurred when making large diameter cuts.  On my D1-6 Pratt Bernard chucks, there is full contact on my LeBlond lathe, for instance.


thestelster said:


> I also tighten mine in a wheel bolt pattern. 1-4-2-5-3-6. Twice.


Exactly how I was taught too!

--one last  tidbit...  Any D1-x chuck must be 'stuck' when releasing the cams, and needs a sharp wrap from a soft hammer to release.  Several used lathes I have examined, the owner stoned the taper so it would 'fit right' and the chuck could fall off by itself.  Needless to say I ran away from those disfigured lathes.


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## PeterT (Dec 21, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> All these years, and I didn't know that!



Example D1-4 has about .074" clearance


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## PeterT (Dec 21, 2022)

I've heard that the tommy bar T-handle chuck key design is partially intended to limit excessive Gronk torque. The chuck specs seem to support that.

Example Gator (Bison clone).














example Bison torque specs





links


			http://www.gts-tools.com/assets/docs/gator-chucks-manual.pdf
		



			https://www.amtc.eu/files/downloads/CAT/648-1.0.1.pdf


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## Dabbler (Dec 21, 2022)

@thestelster I'm sure I misunderstood your comment!  The outermost surface is not critical - I *agree* with you.  I thought you meant the flat surface closest to the headstock bearings.  *I'm sorry!*


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## Susquatch (Dec 21, 2022)

Before doing anything, I took the time to measure my spindle runout. The shop is not warmed up yet but approximately 1 micron on the taper and 1.5 or so on the flat at the outside surface using my Mahr millimess 1 micron test indicator. My cam lock holes intersect the inside relief so I could not take a reliable measurement there. I don't think I'll be touching it. 

I then mounted my Bison 5C Collet Chuck and measured its taper runout at about 1 micron. At first I thought that can't be right so I applied a tiny force on the Noga holder and sure enough, very smooth and predictable movement so it isn't sticking. A good example of how I set it up to index on the lowest runout. Still holding great about 9 years after I bought the chuck. 

Next I installed a hardinge 1/4" collet with one of my better endmills. Same runout at the base of the endmill but a bit over 3 out near the flutes 1 inch away. Perhaps that would get better with deeper engagement in the collet but then I wouldn't be able to measure at that length. I have no precision rods I would trust for this test. They are on my Kijiji/marketplace search list. 

I confess that I can't get the indicator into position for a 90 degree measurement so the results might be very slightly worse. But given the very small measurement, I doubt I could see the difference. 

Those results are all turning the spindle by hand using the rear spider. 

Of course, the acid test is the concentricity and consistency across length of the parts I turn on it. 

All in all, a whole lot better than I remembered. Another reason I love my collet chuck.


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## Susquatch (Dec 21, 2022)

thestelster said:


> But do you know what torque value is required?  I don't.  I guess it doesn't really matter that much, as long as they're all even.



Actually, no I don't. I've always assumed the small t-handle was deliberately sized to prevent overtorquing the cam bolts. Being a big fellow, I've always been gentle with them. 

I have not assessed the info @PeterT has provided above yet. This will help me decide what size of torque limiter to acquire. 


thestelster said:


> I also tighten mine in a wheel bolt pattern.  1-4-2-5-3-6.  Twice.



I do the same thing but 3x instead. Once to just get them started, again to get them up to 50% or so, and then again to tighten them up. 


thestelster said:


> Also the torque requirements for tightening your 3 or 4 jaw chucks are?  I have it listed in the owners manual that came with my 3-jaw.



Oh oh....... I didn't know they are different! I'm not immediately able to see why that would be. If the base of the chuck is at least as big as the base of the spindle, shouldn't they all be the same?


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## TorontoBuilder (Dec 21, 2022)

thestelster said:


> Here is a Youtube video of that procedure by Mr. Crispin, he's a machinist working for Rolls Royce:



I watched this series from when he started posting it about a month ago...  very informative stuff. In the series on grinding theory he specifically tackles alignment with the spindle on two planes.  Between these and a few other videos on grinding I think I'm ready to tackle regrinding my spindle nose taper and face if necessary


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## PeterT (Dec 21, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> The shop is not warmed up yet but approximately 1 micron on the taper and 1.5 or so on the flat at the outside surface using my Mahr millimess
> All in all, a whole lot better than I remembered. Another reason I love my collet chuck.



Bison references their 5C chucks TIR at 0.0004". I think a Hardinge precision collet is 0.0002". End mill shanks, I dunno, maybe 0.0002-0.0005"? So you have 3 potentially cumulative tolerance variation sources downstream of the spindle & you get the same runout of 1 micron (0.000039") at the base of the EM? The chuck is rated 10X more runout than your headstock assembly. You should be thanking the Gods of Probability, or the Asian lathe builders LOL.


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## Susquatch (Dec 21, 2022)

PeterT said:


> You should be thanking the Gods of Probability, or the Asian lathe builders LOL.



I certainly agree! You should have seen my face when I saw the numbers. Needle wasn't moving. Had my milliness gone south? Did I adjust it wrong? Was something binding?

Nope nope nope. I even reached over and pushed manually on the nose to see if the needle would move. Yup, it did! So nothing obvious wrong. Can't wait to turn and test a part per @Dabblers suggestion. Not touching anything till then!


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## Degen (Dec 21, 2022)

Interesting that you all forget one simple thing on your mounts.  If the lathe mount is worn or damaged, turn it or grind it to spec.  No matter what happens it will be true to your machine in that set up.

Scared of turning or grinding, don't be as you are likely only taking of 1/10's of Thousands (maybe up to 0.001) just to clean things up.  If you are taking 0.005 you have serious issues that need to be address on your machine and the mount is likely the least of your issues.

Finally, precision and some of the values being chased are not within the realm that most can achieve with the equipment and tooling that we have.  This is one of those pet peaves that that gets me upset.

On for those with OCD that work to those levels (and some have posted their projects and work) hats off, you truly understand that you precision is the craftsmanship of your work and skill to get it there and not that of the machine and don;t waste you time chasing something on the mahine that is beyond its limits, but instead work around it to achieve the results.


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## whydontu (Dec 23, 2022)

Had a minute while I was swapping from 3-jaw to 5C on my BB B2227L lathe. The 5C is from CDCO Tool about 6 years ago, cheapest one I could find.

Runout on the backplate register:






Runout on the 5C nose:






Perfectly acceptable for the meatball machining I do.


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## Susquatch (Dec 23, 2022)

PeterT said:


> I've heard that the tommy bar T-handle chuck key design is partially intended to limit excessive Gronk torque. The chuck specs seem to support that.



It's not easy to get the really important stuff done this time if year. Too many honey do's.

I can't really make heads or tails of this info Peter. I think these charts are all referring to the torque on the collet tightening mechanism - not the CamLock Studs. The other chart you copied from GTS is similarly suspect.

On a related topic, I looked at the bison catalog you linked to and could not find all the different d1-x mount choices for collet chucks. Have they dropped those?


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