# Plasma cutters



## historicalarms (May 10, 2019)

When I first looked at acquiring on of these a couple years ago pretty much everything was in the $1500-2000 range, just a bit too much for the amount of use I would get from one. Now I have an opportunity to get a small job that will make it a reality to justify one.
    Now when I look at Amazon there is page after page of machines in the $400-600 range that are advertised to clean -cut 1/2" material ( this little job requires a bunch of 3/8 cutting but I do have occasion to cut 1/2 a bit). 

     My question to the board is "does anybody have experience" with these, what I would call budget priced machines from Amazon. I am a bit leery of them as the Brand name ones such as Hobart & Miller etc. are still up in the $2000 range.


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## CalgaryPT (May 10, 2019)

I suspect the same principle applies to plasma cutters as other cheaper tools in that the non-big name brands tend to rate performance liberally, and the big boys rate theirs more conservatively. I own a Hypertherm PowerMax 45 and it exceeds what the specs say. I briefly owned a PowerMax 65 and it exceeded its specs too.

Plasma has come a long way and I’m sure there are many no-name brands that perform very well now. I remember it wasn’t too long ago that Lincoln and Millers were looked down on compared to Hypertherm and Theromo Dynamics. A lot has changed. Lincoln acquired Torchmate for example, and their cutters have since improved.

Assuming the model you are looking at is rated well with good reviews I would research consumable availability. Also, some units do poorly at gorging if that is a consideration to you.

Lastly, if automation and CNC is a future requirement make sure it has plugs for send/receive of these signals, or you can at least tap into the board if needed. Even my older Hypertherm 45 lacked these, but luckily there were vids on how to modify the motherboard. You’ll also want a machine torch if you CNC.

Best of luck.


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## Janger (May 10, 2019)

I think Mike @Bofobo bought a smaller one a while back from kms I believe. Mike? How’d it turn out?


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## Janger (May 10, 2019)

Janger said:


> I think Mike @Bofobo bought a smaller one a while back from kms I believe. Mike? How’d it turn out?


I have an Everlast tig/plasma combo. It’s worked well for me. A few hiccups. It’s More money than you’re discussing.

Another point not mentioned you have to have dry clean air. The line needs a dryer - desiccant - radiator - something. Even a tiny bit of water blows up the consumable.


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## Tom Kitta (May 10, 2019)

I have cut50. Works great. Got it few years back. Cheap from eBay. I doubt its 50 through - I think more in line with 35. But for the money it works. It eats consumables through faster then brand name models. Make sure air is dry.


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## Dr.Fiero (May 11, 2019)

Whichever you get, make SURE that you can easily get the consumables.  If you can use an expensive Miller (etc etc) tip right off the shelf, it'll beat the hell out of having to wait 3 months to order one from the MFG (just to find out they discontinued it, or they went out of business).

Also, look for one that brags about using high quality Japanese FET's from Panasonic (etc). These are what do the switching, and take the brunt of the abuse in the power supply. The cheap chinesium ones are a sure bet for failure.


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## historicalarms (May 11, 2019)

Thanks a bunch guys, this gives me a baseline for more research. 

    One thing that is mentioned in the adds is Non-pilot arc or "pilot arc". is there a benefit to either one?


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## Dr.Fiero (May 11, 2019)

Pilot arc - it essentially shoots high frequency, lower amperage power from the tip to the surface.  It's ionizes the air, and lets the main arc light off easier. Similar to in TIG welding, you might hear the terms "scratch start" and "high freq start".
  That's *my* understanding of it anyhow!


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## CalgaryPT (May 11, 2019)

historicalarms said:


> Thanks a bunch guys, this gives me a baseline for more research.



A great resource is Jim Colt - he worked for Hypertherm and is considered the God of plasma cutting. He has a great website: https://www.thefabricator.com/author/jim-colt and is actually very approachable. He answers emails personally still I believe. He was a major contributor to Torchmate's success before they sold to Lincoln and made plasma understandable to many of us.

When in doubt, look for articles by Jim on the web. The guy knows his stuff and is a great teacher.


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## Tom Kitta (May 11, 2019)

I have the one with pilot - this is the one to get. The tig description is accurate. Also with pilot you will use the consumables less.


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## Bofobo (May 11, 2019)

I used my cut30 all but once. And only on 110v, it Worked great but i needed both my small compressors to get enough CFM. For the 1/8” plate and would quickly trip the breaker with long cuts or extended periods of use, again on 110v it is dual voltage I just could not use it in my kitchen  they’re the only 30 amp plug in my house resides


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## historicalarms (May 11, 2019)

I have both 30 amp 110 & 220 ( not sure of the amps.) available in the shop but no mater which way I go, I will need to add an extension cord as I don't like cutting sparks inside the building ( 50 yr old wood structure).  My acetylene torch is on wheels and goes outside for even a small "snip" LOL.

    Thanks for the links Calg.

    Spent most of the morning reading "user quality reports" on Amazon on several machines. They all give a PSI requirement for different cut thickness's but not one of them give the flow volume requirement . I think my compressor is 10 cfm. so hope that will be sufficient ( two 50 gal tanks hooked in succession), I filled a lot of 11-24 truck tires with it for a # of yrs.


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## Tom Kitta (May 12, 2019)

I used it with my smaller compressor 11cfm @ 90 without it overworking itself.


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## Dr.Fiero (May 12, 2019)

historicalarms said:


> They all give a PSI requirement for different cut thickness's but not one of them give the flow volume requirement . I think my compressor is 10 cfm. so hope that will be sufficient .



Another thing to remember...  you can have an awesome 50cfm pump, attached to a 1000 gallon tank.
But then you run your lines into a 3/8" regulator, that goes down to 1/4" ID hose at the reel....  you've got nothing.  

Point is - you're pretty much only as strong (CFM) as your weakest link (hose).

If you're using couplers at any point (and who doesn't?), make sure to get rid of all those "M" couplers (that show up on almost anything bought in the last 20 years), and switch over to the Milton "V" ones. They flow almost double what an "M" does. And the nice thing is, a female "V" will still let you plug an "M" into it (with the resultant lower flow).


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## Tom Kitta (May 12, 2019)

Thin cable does indeed cause issues at high cfm flows but not even close to these encounterd by small plasma cutter unless your cable is ultra long and has many kinks or connectors.

It is similar to running electrical cable that is small gauge - you are having voltage drop when drawing lots of power through it. With long thin air cable you have PSI drop. Same PSI drop occurs when using air dryers of different types. 

The 3/8 cable of 100ft length creates enough drop that operating say 1" impact is an issue. 

There are calculators available online for all of this.


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## Dr.Fiero (May 12, 2019)

All I'm saying, is that if you've got 1/4" hose/pipe in the system, you've choked the whole thing off.
You can only flow about 4cfm (at 120) through it.  So your 10cfm compressor becomes a moot point.


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## Chicken lights (May 12, 2019)

Dr.Fiero said:


> Another thing to remember...  you can have an awesome 50cfm pump, attached to a 1000 gallon tank.
> But then you run your lines into a 3/8" regulator, that goes down to 1/4" ID hose at the reel....  you've got nothing.
> 
> Point is - you're pretty much only as strong (CFM) as your weakest link (hose).
> ...


That’s really good info. Is there a chart online that shows the comparisons? 

I’ve got most of my shop switched over to Milton “P” series fittings


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## Bofobo (May 12, 2019)

I feed several lines to the cutter with this, air in the splitter and connects to the cutter at the elbow.


to reduce my overall pressure losses, and yes as you can see my shop floor is hardwood


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## Alexander (May 12, 2019)

I have been curious about the really cheap plasma cutters on Ebay. Like this one.
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Digital-ICU...ree-Shipping/273724093162?hash=item3fbb3a32ea


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## Alexander (May 12, 2019)

@Bofobo  you could get an extension cord from princess auto and run it outside  from your kitchen


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## Bofobo (May 12, 2019)

Alexander said:


> @Bofobo  you could get an extension cord from princess auto and run it outside  from your kitchen


I actually made one already, it worked out as my arc welder can run off the same plug, its a bit weaker on the dryer 40A but i have not needed it lately


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## Tom Kitta (May 12, 2019)

Alexander said:


> I have been curious about the really cheap plasma cutters on Ebay. Like this one.
> https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Digital-ICU...ree-Shipping/273724093162?hash=item3fbb3a32ea



That is the same one I have but the cut50 - even same color. Note that 60 probably is just 40 in performance world.


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## Tom O (May 13, 2019)

Alexander said:


> I have been curious about the really cheap plasma cutters on Ebay. Like this one.
> https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Digital-ICU...ree-Shipping/273724093162?hash=item3fbb3a32ea


Alexander If you need one I’m a stones throw away!


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## Chris Cramer (Dec 16, 2019)

How much money are you willing to spend? When I was looking for an affordable plasma cutter the best option I found under $1000 was the everlast power plasma 50s. According to all the reviews I read online it's one of the most popular hobbyist plasma cutters with surprising capabilities. For myself it's been working great, my problems cutting aluminum were most likely because I was using air instead of Argon Helium, or Nitrogen. I haven't tested its capability with the plasma table I ordered, but its features of pilot arc and the CNC port make it capable of CNC control as well.


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## Janger (Dec 17, 2019)

Chris Jenson had one of those everlast plasma 50s with the CNC integration on his CNC table. It seemed to work well. He cut quite a few stanchion bases for me with lettering cutouts and they turned out nice.


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## Alexander (Dec 17, 2019)

I got to see that machine chris had too. He cut out some letters for me out of 1/8th plate.


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## Colten Edwards (Dec 28, 2019)

I'm about to embark on building a plasma table. I have a multi-process Everlast 256SI which has plasma capabilities. Hoping that it will get me started so I can eventually upgrade to a dedicated plasma cutter.

so far, I have my electronics, motors and rails/blocks. Just need some 14guage 2" square tubing and some welding experience.


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## Tom O (Dec 28, 2019)

I’ve been at that point for probably 2 years now it comes down to how much space available to how much you’d use it. I’m thinking about one that would be able to be pulled out or folded for storage.


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## Chris Cramer (Jun 13, 2020)

I'm having a lot of trouble with my everlast power plasma 50s. It can't seem to maintain the cutting arc as I continue cutting, especially when it is run by my machine. I have the ground clamp directly on the metal, and I've tried replacing all consumables including the swirl ring and the fuse. I'm trying to cut 3/16' mild steel with my compressor set to 90 - 120 psi and my plasma cutter to 70 with 30 - 40 amps. The only way it cuts is when it moves at a very slow travel speed around 30 ipm; but of course that only leaves a lot of slag on the bottom of the metal. If it travels faster, even when starting on the side, or piercing all the way through, it only gouges the surface.
 The machine itself is working fine,because all the movement is correct, and it fires the torch correctly, but it can't seem to cut the metal unless I use it by hand.


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## Bofobo (Jun 14, 2020)

Are you experiencing air-line lag? Moisture separator clogged? Kinked/ loose air line or punctured/ burn?


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## kylemp (Jun 14, 2020)

Chris Cramer said:


> I'm having a lot of trouble with my everlast power plasma 50s. It can't seem to maintain the cutting arc as I continue cutting, especially when it is run by my machine. I have the ground clamp directly on the metal, and I've tried replacing all consumables including the swirl ring and the fuse. I'm trying to cut 3/16' mild steel with my compressor set to 90 - 120 psi and my plasma cutter to 70 with 30 - 40 amps. The only way it cuts is when it moves at a very slow travel speed around 30 ipm; but of course that only leaves a lot of slag on the bottom of the metal. If it travels faster, even when starting on the side, or piercing all the way through, it only gouges the surface.
> The machine itself is working fine,because all the movement is correct, and it fires the torch correctly, but it can't seem to cut the metal unless I use it by hand.


In my experience that is a grounding issue but I didn't have that model of plasma, and it sounds like you've checked it..


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## Bofobo (Jun 14, 2020)

My mastcraft welders ground wire frayed under the shrink wrap.... possibly!?


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## Janger (Jun 14, 2020)

Chris do you have a CNC plasma table now? Very cool. What kind? pics? 

What are you doing to remove water from the lines? I had endless trouble with the plasma until I bought a desiccant air dryer. Especially lately with the high humidity you will get water in the lines unless you are taking specific steps. You may have gotten away with nothing during the winter I found I did but not now. I have one of these: https://www.kmstools.com/campbell-hausfeld-3-8-desiccant-coalescing-filter-1546  The water filter on the plasma cutter is not adequate. 

I find I need to change the beads every single DAY! But it's no big deal, I put the used beads in a tin can and then cook it in the toaster oven for about 20 minutes at 300F to dry them out. (I've also used the BBQ). The beads change colour from blue to pink and back when they are wet and then back to dry. I've got two sets so one is being used while the other is drying. Use an air tight container to store them in. I use plastic gelato containers.

Also I think you may have the air pressure set too high - try turning it down to 60 and also turning it up to 80. What size air line do you have? It may be too small if you're using 1/4". I think the manual says 3/8. I also think 30 ipm is pretty fast maybe too fast. I would slow it down to 10 and adjust upwards. First get it cutting reliably and then try to work on reducing the slag. I think some slag is pretty typical at the price point of a home plasma system. 

If none of this goes anywhere I would contact the seller - they've helped me out a couple times. 

One last thing - what capacity of compressor (volume and CFM?) do you have? a little one won't work for very long before it falls behind. 

@CalgaryPT Peter can you advise on feeds and speeds here for Chris?


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## Janger (Jun 14, 2020)

What kind of ground clamp? are you grinding off the mill scale? The everlast ground clamps aren't very good. I bought a much stiffer one at Princess and it helps. 

One of the welding you tubers also suggested making a birds nest or a ball of small gauge copper wire and putting that in between the jaws and the material to improve the ground. I've done that too and it does help. 

Be sure to let us know how you are making out.


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## Janger (Jun 14, 2020)

This guy demos the bird nest grounding.


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## Chris Cramer (Jun 14, 2020)

Here is a picture of my table  and one of the cuts, it is the new crossfire pro from langmuir systems. I use an 80 gallon air compressor connected to a motor guard air dryer, I tried changing the filter, and I just purchased another water trap for the side of the compressor, but I haven't tried installing it yet. I cut a piece using  a speed of 10 IPM but I could tell that it was cut by the pilot arc, because the sides were very messy with lots of slag. When I cut it by hand I can travel faster than the machine, and at the same height or higher, and still make a clean cut. I have read some settings online using 45 - 50 amps at 20 - 30 ipm but when I have gone that high and slow by hand it creates a lot of slag, because of the excessive heat. I'll try the birds nest, and clean the clamp, I'm thinking it is a grounding issue,  because when I have it in my vise I can cut the metal no problem, but not when it is on the table.


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## Janger (Jun 14, 2020)

What’s a motor guard air dryer?


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## Chris Cramer (Jun 14, 2020)

It's a filter that air runs through to remove  moisture and oils, you can find them at kms tools.


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## Janger (Jun 15, 2020)

https://www.kmstools.com/search/results?inc_subcat=1&search_in_description=&keyword=motor+guard

Ah I see. So how do you know when the filter is saturated and needs replacing? Can you cook these filters dry and reuse them? Not that the people selling them want to tell you that...

I'm interested in your plasma table Chris. I've got some possible projects - are you open to doing some side jobs?


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## Janger (Jun 15, 2020)

I just thought of something else. On my plasma it’s easy to not tighten up the positive lead at the Everlast machine properly because a protrusion gets in the way. When that happens it does not work right. It seems tight but it isn’t.


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## RobinHood (Jun 15, 2020)

Janger said:


> On my plasma it’s easy to not tighten up the positive lead at the Everlast machine properly because a protrusion gets in the way.



Not an Everlast Plasma machine, but it was the same on their TIG welder: the power lead lugs are a poor fit - I machined them so that they are fitting correctly (and not just feel tight) and make good contact at the same time.


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## Chris Cramer (Jun 17, 2020)

I finally got the torch working with my machine. The electrode probably had poor connection to the rest of the torch, I cleaned the threads in the blow back spring so the electrode screwed in better. The ground clamp probably had poor conductivity as well, cause it cut better when I swapped the everlast clamp with my Miller clamp for my welder.
I got asked to cut some labels for Wilco landscaping.


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## Janger (Jun 17, 2020)

oh that reminds me there is another little gotcha with my plasma torch, if you tighten it up too much when changing the consumables the internal contacts seem to get distorted and then it runs intermittent. Perhaps you have the same kind? Glad you've got it working better. Sign looks good!


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## Chris Cramer (Aug 5, 2020)

The hypertherm powermax 45xp and the duramax machine torch with the crossfire pro cuts far cleaner and faster than the everlast power plasma 50s. I finished cutting 105 signs out of a 3'x 4' 3/16 plate of mild steel. The settings from the cut charts in the hypertherm manual are fairly accurate and leave behind very little slag, and with some finer tuning it can still do even better. The only shortcoming I come across is how much more air the powermax 45xp takes to operate which reduces the time you can keep the machine running; but even that is a pretty long time.


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## Janger (Aug 6, 2020)

Hey look at them all that’s fantastic! Glad it’s working better for you Chris.


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## Janger (Aug 6, 2020)

Janger said:


> Hey look at them all that’s fantastic! Glad it’s working better for you Chris.


I suspect you will want a 240V compressor. With this hot weather I’m noticing way more water in the system - the auto drain is letting out a lot of water and my desiccant only lasts a day before I need to recharge them.


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## Colten Edwards (Aug 16, 2020)

I happen to have one for sale  60 gallon hi-flow 3 head compressor. I think the motor is a 3hp on it.


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## Chris Cramer (Aug 17, 2020)

The compressor I use is almost double the required cfm for the hypertherm powermax 45xp; so any application that uses compressed air would work  fine. However I just learned that the machine could be well used for marking as well, and I'd rather use argon than air for that purpose to leave a cleaner, and more narrow mark. I have an argon cylinder that I use for tig welding, but the flow meter on the regulator only goes to 50 scfh when the required cut flow of the plasma cutter is 255 scfh. Is a whole different cylinder needed to go that high or could I find a different regulator that will bring it to that flow?


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## Janger (Aug 18, 2020)

255 scfh is a very high rate - you'll empty the tank very quickly.


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## Tom O (Aug 18, 2020)

doesn’t the Hypertherm automatically regulate the pressure I would think that is way too high and would call to inquire.


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## Chris Cramer (Aug 18, 2020)

The hypertherm regulates the pressure but not the flow rate. According to the manual it should be 255 scfh at 90psi. The same is for compressed air, so I'm thinking of imply trying it at 90 psi and max flow with a 3/8 hose just like air. It's the flow rate that confuses me.


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## Colten Edwards (Aug 25, 2020)

that looks alot more reasonable. had me worried for a moment. My new to me compressor is supposed to be 17cfm at 120psi and I was thinking it wouldn't be enough


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## Chris Cramer (Oct 5, 2020)

After purchasing the powermax 45xp, I'm now offering to sell my everlast pp 50s with the torch and all my remaining extra consumables. The price of a brand new power plasma 50s is $1200 and mine is only about 1.5 years old so I would be offering it for $700.


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