# Ramps



## Chicken lights (Nov 21, 2020)

I want to change out the ramps that are on my new truck. The ones on there are ridiculous and also ridiculously heavy. Found these at a wrecking yard on Friday. 




They just are a bit thin in a couple spots.


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## Chicken lights (Nov 21, 2020)

I like to use a 7” zip disc on a 5” grinder for cutting. That way there’s absolutely no way to use a guard on the grinder. Just watch those fingers don’t get too close 

Also in the middle picture I broke out my needle scaler. I’ve never used one before, that’s a useful tool. 

Saved the old piece to use as a template


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## Chicken lights (Nov 21, 2020)

Made one hell of a mess on the floor too


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## Chicken lights (Nov 21, 2020)

And now I’m pondering how to cut that reasonably straight like @CalgaryPT was telling me in the other thread yesterday. But my back is starting to tell me it’s quitting time. Plus, I’d rather not use the cutting torches right before trying to shut down the shop for the night. 

I think I’ll try a piece of angle iron clamped to the face of it as a guide


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## YYCHM (Nov 21, 2020)

What are these ramps on your truck used for?


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## Chicken lights (Nov 21, 2020)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> What are these ramps on your truck used for?


When you’re backing up to a trailer, they help pick up the front of the trailer so it’s not as much of an angle when it meets the 5th wheel 

The 5th wheel tilts but if the angle is too steep it won’t tilt to pick up the trailer 

I dunno how better to explain that


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## YYCHM (Nov 21, 2020)

I think you need one of these.....

https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/hmt-forum/gasoline_powered_impact_wrench_removing_lug_nuts.mp4


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## YYCHM (Nov 21, 2020)

Chicken lights said:


> When you’re backing up to a trailer, they help pick up the front of the trailer so it’s not as much of an angle when it meets the 5th wheel
> 
> The 5th wheel tilts but if the angle is too steep it won’t tilt to pick up the trailer
> 
> I dunno how better to explain that



Why is weight a factor?  Are they something you install/remove on a regular basis?


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## Chicken lights (Nov 21, 2020)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> Why is weight a factor?  Are they something you install/remove on a regular basis?


Eummm couple things there. No, you generally don’t install/remove often. On my other truck they are welded on likely from the factory. 

Other issue is they should be “sacrificial”, if they’re gonna get hooked I’d rather trash the ramps and not the frame rails 

For weight- legally 80,000 pounds is considered max in most of North America. If the truck is really heavy then I can’t legally scale some loads 

That one trombone load to Texas I grabbed a load of steel that weighed 39,000 pounds roughly. The truck and trailer empty weighed 39,000 pounds. Sure that’s still 78,000 so it worked it’s just an example of why if I have the chance to drop 400 pounds, I’m gonna take it. 

You can run half tanks too to shed weight, fuel is roughly 7 pounds a gallon I think


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## CalgaryPT (Nov 21, 2020)

Chicken lights said:


> Eummm couple things there. No, you generally don’t install/remove often. On my other truck they are welded on likely from the factory.
> 
> Other issue is they should be “sacrificial”, if they’re gonna get hooked I’d rather trash the ramps and not the frame rails
> 
> ...


Between posts like this and "Highway Through Hell," I'm learning more about the trucking industry everyday.


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## CalgaryPT (Nov 21, 2020)

Chicken lights said:


> Also in the middle picture I broke out my needle scaler. I’ve never used one before, that’s a useful tool.


Perfect job for a needle scaler...you can do some cool artistic stuff with them too. Kinda loud, but fun to use. Nice work.


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## 6.5 Fan (Nov 22, 2020)

Looks like a good project. Don't envy your job though, i have 1A license but no bloody way i would long haul.


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## YYCHM (Dec 1, 2020)

Where are we at with this ramp project?


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## Chicken lights (Dec 1, 2020)

Well, I’m in Wisconsin currently. The grey trucks safetied and I had guys move it to another shop to pick away at some wiring. I’m “assuming” it’ll get moved to my shop this weekend. 

Before I start cutting I think I want to mock them up when at my shop, get one side to fit then try to replace the thin pieces 

They are roughly 1/4” higher than the ramps on the white truck. So I need to try to drop them 1/4”-1/2” also 

I also need to measure the 5th wheel risers, compare both trucks, I need to back the grey truck under a trailer to see if that meets legal height.....

The grey truck 5th wheel is roughly 50 1/2” from the ground and the white truck is roughly 48” 

So lots of progress just not necessarily shop time been devoted to them


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## YYCHM (Dec 5, 2020)

Truck make it to your shop now?


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## Chicken lights (Dec 6, 2020)

Yep. 

Delivered yesterday morning. Dropped the empty trailer off. Grabbed another empty trailer for Monday’s rodeo. Fired up the grey truck on the way through to let it warm up. Hitched a ride back into town to drive that one home. Hitched a ride to go grab the white one. All three trucks are home in one spot goal is to grab a pic of the “fleet” today as well as mock up those ramps to keep plugging away on them 

I have a “plan” for the ramps


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## YYCHM (Dec 6, 2020)

All three trucks???


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## Chicken lights (Dec 6, 2020)

Yep, white truck, grey truck and my little crewcab longbox F350 grocery getter


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## YYCHM (Dec 6, 2020)

Chicken lights said:


> Yep, white truck, grey truck and my little crewcab longbox F350 grocery getter



Well you'll have to include the tractor/loader thingy in your group photo as well


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## Chicken lights (Dec 6, 2020)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> Well you'll have to include the tractor/loader thingy in your group photo as well


But not the trailer or the Uhaul??


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## Chicken lights (Dec 6, 2020)

Christmas card photo 2020?


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## Chicken lights (Dec 6, 2020)

What I’m trying to duplicate 

What I’m starting with


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## YYCHM (Dec 6, 2020)

Has the original heavy ramp been removed in the second image or am I missing something here?


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## Chicken lights (Dec 6, 2020)

Yup, those the old ones, the side plate and top rail is all 1/2” plate.


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## Dusty (Dec 6, 2020)

Hey Chicken lights that's a sweet lineup of vehicles, Santa's been good to you!


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## Chicken lights (Dec 6, 2020)

They fit, mostly. In that spot it sits flat on the frame rail and is exactly the same length as the other ones 

Thanks Dusty


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## Dusty (Dec 6, 2020)

Hey heavy hauler, is the concept of the ramps to protect the back end of the tractor when backing into a trailer or does it function to raise the trailer to match the fifth wheel without having to raise the trailer jacks? Likely a little of both and a lot more although I'm guessing.

The one you set on the frame looks solid, nice job.


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## Chicken lights (Dec 6, 2020)

Couple reasons why I want them- like you pointed out they help pick up the trailer so you don’t have to raise the trailer jacks. Most trucks in most regular flatbed company’s will run 11R22.5 tires whereas I run 11R24.5. So pretty much any trailer that someone else has dropped is already low for me. “Most” drivers when they drop a trailer leave the trailer jack feet an inch or two off the ground, drop the air in the truck then walk out from underneath it. So an inch in tire height, plus an inch or two for dropping it....starts to add up 

I can do the opposite, with a low trailer, drop my air out of the suspension, back under, air up, then hit the pin to lock the fifth wheel but it’s annoying. 

Then to really over explain this some trailers don’t have trailer jacks at all and the truck has to pick them up all by itself


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## historicalarms (Dec 7, 2020)

That last sentence of yours Chicken is the reason the ramps on your Ab. truck are probably heavier than you are used to seeing. Crank-up dollies were very rare in our heavy haul operations back in time, they just weren't built heavy enough to stand the abuse and we didn't have any air bag height adjustments to use. All our suspensions were rubber block or almost solid ride springs.
   Our "oil field float, 16 wheel" trailers had solid "swing up & pin" legs that were a B!tch for two men to raise or lower let alone someone by themselves. For this reason, if we had a winch tractor the legs remained up all the time & the trailers were pulled up, from the ground, over the live roll with cable assist. However sometimes these trailers were dropped by a high-way hauler without a winch and the legs had to be used. These legs are purposely short so that when the trailer was on the 5th wheel we had clearance to pull it without bottoming out unless the terrain got real uneaven (we didn't want to have to lift those damn legs unless we absolutely had to).
       This is why your ramps are so heavy built, some of those trailers were front-loaded to well over 100 thousand pounds weight on the horse-cock, so, because we had no  air bag lowering capability available, a very violent "hit & lift" action was proper procedure for a hook up...line up...and about 5 feet rom the trailer nose...pin the throttle!

    That is how it is supposed to be done...now for one of my "old trucking stories on how there is an exception to every rule...
    Bunch of us were in the Airliner hotel enjoying the company of some of the local lovelies one evening (mid-winter) when one of us suggested we better go out to the lay-down yard beside the hotel and hook under our trailers before their company became more important that delivering those loads the next day...good idea. 
     One of the guys had to hook under a trailer with standing legs as I described earlier...now remember we just came out of a bar full of "lovelies" that didn't like to drink alone so regular driving skills had been "altered"... a bit...
     Dude with the legs-down trailer lined er up and give it the 5 or maybe 8 ft run at er...and missed the pin guide of the 5th wheel totally...that pin hit the wheel plate as far to one side as it could have, slide up the plate until it leveled off then slid over the front of the plate...dude was pined to his trailer but sure not inside the jaws. Now he's got well over a hundred thousand pounds of weight anchoring that pin to the front of the fifth wheel. 
      After a very short discussion by all of us on the amount of work to assemble a few 40 ton bottle jacks & blocking to lift that trailer about 8 inches...it was decided to find the drivers inside the bar of a couple of 400" bed trucks with "Texas Rigging" gin pole set-ups in the parking lot and bribe them with pre-paid bar tabs of a significant amount...to lift that trailer, one on each side.
     Bribing the one driver was easy, he was still in the bar...however the other had "sort-of-paired-up" and was already in one of the rooms...considerable bartering was needed to roust him from that room...I think a phone call to his wife even entered the conversation at one time...we were desperate to get that horse-cock were it was supposed to be...so we could get on with....the final monetary figure was $150 pre paid bar tab for each of them, a lot of money when hi-balls were $0.85 each at the time.


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## Chicken lights (Dec 7, 2020)

The guy I got the truck from had the old ones made up out in AB, he was not happy how overkill they were. Probably like @historicalarms is explaining, that’s just what the shop was used to building. It was also pointed out to me that having them curved like that, if you get under the trailer only so far and don’t hit the pin, the curve will spit you right back out 
Dropped them off at a welding shop this morning to fix the overhang and tack it all together for me. See what happens


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## Chicken lights (Dec 8, 2020)

Swing and a miss. They did a nice job but none of the holes line up and they’re too tall how they had them mocked up. 
Even though I told them the truck is a 1/2 mile up the road if they needed to mock anything up, and drove the one guy to show him where it was and to take measurements Monday morning 
So I drove the grey truck over, I was hoping to avoid that. They were kind enough to let me hang onto the side of a tractor for a ride home.


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## Brent H (Dec 8, 2020)

WHAT!!!   dude -- food, lov'in  - that is nasty!


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## CalgaryPT (Dec 9, 2020)

Dusty said:


> Hey Chicken lights that's a sweet lineup of vehicles, Santa's been good to you!


Ditto. I was thinking the same thing. What is it about guys and our trucks????


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## CalgaryPT (Dec 9, 2020)

Chicken lights said:


> View attachment 12075View attachment 12076
> 
> They fit, mostly. In that spot it sits flat on the frame rail and is exactly the same length as the other ones
> 
> Thanks Dusty


These pics finally drive home the concept for me. Thanks.


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## YYCHM (Dec 10, 2020)

Is this sorted out yet?


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## Chicken lights (Dec 11, 2020)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> Is this sorted out yet?


I assume so? There was various phone calls the other morning asking about priming before welding and what final colour should be. I should know more this aft. 

Need to call a bolt store and see if I can get some 5/8” NC grade 2 or weaker bolts too


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## YYCHM (Dec 11, 2020)

Chicken lights said:


> I assume so? There was various phone calls the other morning asking about priming before welding and what final colour should be. I should know more this aft.
> 
> Need to call a bolt store and see if I can get some 5/8” NC grade 2 or weaker bolts too



I'm lost again.  What was the welding shop supposed to do? 








This image made it look like they were getting welded on.  Sounds like you're bolting them on now?


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## Dusty (Dec 11, 2020)

Hey heavy hauler with me not being a trucker I find it hard to follow your remarks sometimes after viewing posted photos. That said some of us are very interested in what you are trying to achieve and the reasoning behind same. Help us understand because we definitely appreciate your insight.

Safe trucking!


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## historicalarms (Dec 11, 2020)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> I'm lost again.  What was the welding shop supposed to do?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



   I have seen them installed both ways, welding or "bolt-on's" .

    I also am curious as to if these wanted bolts are for mounting the ramps. If so, I am curious why you would spec a shear-pin quality of bolt to mount something that may be required to withstand a beating sometime during its life where failure isn't an option I would want at all.


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## Chicken lights (Dec 11, 2020)

Ok- one at a time- 

The white truck ramp measures 32” from front to back. Middle picture might be sideways but it picks up that crossmember at the rear frame. 
New ramps on the grey truck at 32” that back flange is 3” too far back, they cut it off and welded on a 1/4” plate. 

That leaves 3” between the front of the ramps and the fifth wheel


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## Chicken lights (Dec 11, 2020)

In theory when you’re using the ramps all the force is straight down from the top of the ramp through this squared off part onto the frame rail. Straight line backing in straight line pulling out 

IF you happen to hook the ramps in a twisted up turn the hope is to break a weak bolt instead of tweaking the frame. Sure, breaking off a ramp isn’t gonna be a good day but it beats a tweaked frame


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## Chicken lights (Jan 17, 2021)

They’re on, finally


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## David_R8 (Jan 17, 2021)

Look like factory parts!


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## Chicken lights (Jan 17, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> Look like factory parts!


Thanks!
I have more money in them than I’ll admit to but in my eyes they are a necessity. I’ve been a nervous Nancy the past week or so hooking to trailers without them


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## Brent H (Jan 17, 2021)

Peace of mind is always worth the price - great job @Chicken lights


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## Chicken lights (Apr 26, 2021)

You guys were curious about the need for these. You can see the rollers @historicalarms was mentioning. There’s no landing gear (dollys or trailer jack, whichever name makes more sense)


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## David_R8 (Apr 26, 2021)

Interesting, do the trailers have something to prevent them from rolling backwards when trying to hitch up?


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## YYCHM (Apr 26, 2021)

The pics make no sense to me.  Don't know what I'm looking at.  Is the toothy looking thing part of the truck or the trailer?


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## David_R8 (Apr 26, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> The pics make no sense to me.  Don't know what I'm looking at.  Is the toothy looking thing part of the truck or the trailer?


I'll take a stab at this. The first pic is looking under the gooseneck of a lowboy trailer. The second pic is the front of the gooseneck, sitting on the hitch, the rollers roll up the ramps that @Chicken lights built.


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## Chicken lights (Apr 26, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> Interesting, do the trailers have something to prevent them from rolling backwards when trying to hitch up?


Most trailers now have a parking brake. I heard years ago it was an issue without them, you’d go to unhook and the trailer would take off on you. Or worse if it was icy you’d spend all afternoon chasing the trailer around the yard, trying to pin up to it


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## Chicken lights (Apr 26, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> The pics make no sense to me.  Don't know what I'm looking at.  Is the toothy looking thing part of the truck or the trailer?


The “toothy thing” is my fifth wheel riser. I can slide my fifth wheel and the teeth are where it would lock, in different positions


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## YYCHM (Apr 26, 2021)

Chicken lights said:


> The “toothy thing” is my fifth wheel riser. I can slide my fifth wheel and the teeth are where it would lock, in different positions



So the fifth wheel is the thing that captures the trailer and you have to move it forwards or backwards on the truck sometimes?


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## Chicken lights (Apr 26, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> So the fifth wheel is the thing that captures the trailer and you have to move it forwards or backwards on the truck sometimes?


Pretty much. I generally don’t move mine but that’s besides the point


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## historicalarms (Apr 27, 2021)

Chicken lights said:


> Most trailers now have a parking brake. I heard years ago it was an issue without them, you’d go to unhook and the trailer would take off on you. Or worse if it was icy you’d spend all afternoon chasing the trailer around the yard, trying to pin up to it


  Just to add....When you unhook the air lines, All modern trailer air brake pots(since the early 70's) dynamite the trailer brakes automatically.   I had my tractor leased to another trucking company, pulling their trailers, The trailer repairs were up to them to keep them roadworthy....they became very lax in this and I was constantly complaining and doing my own repairs to remain safe on the road....until one time I watched the boss unhook his trailer and it rolled away from the tractor on its own, there was not a whisper of brakes left on that trailer. I filed an official report to the peat moss company ( the same company, by the way, that hired the truck that hit the hockey team many years later) but that was ignored so I had to go to the Provincial Highway patrol next...all the trailers were seized within 24 hrs.


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## historicalarms (Apr 27, 2021)

Chicken lights said:


> Pretty much. I generally don’t move mine but that’s besides the point




    One time I had to move my 5th wheel plate one of those cogs to avoid a $5700  "bridge distance" fine. Bridge distance is  the measurement from center of rear drive axle to center of front trailer axle and I was snubbed up 1" too short for the weight I was carrying per axle. I was loaded with 32 tonnes of asphalt and that isn't easy skidding that plate even 1/2 " ....but to save $5700 I'd of pried it back with a screw driver if I had too. 
     if the trailer is empty you just kick the air lock dogs out from those teeth, lock the trailer brakes and move the tractor the desired amount.

   Curious Chicken, what were you hauling on the "double drop"....usually we see you pulling flat deck?


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## Chicken lights (Apr 27, 2021)

historicalarms said:


> Curious Chicken, what were you hauling on the "double drop"....usually we see you pulling flat deck?


You’ll never believe me.....

A seaweed harvester


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## Darren (Apr 27, 2021)

Chicken lights said:


> You’ll never believe me.....
> 
> A seaweed harvester



Do you ever travel betweem Toronto area and Thunder Bay? I often see stuff there that i'd like to have here...


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## Chicken lights (Apr 27, 2021)

dfloen said:


> Do you ever travel betweem Toronto area and Thunder Bay? I often see stuff there that i'd like to have here...


Where are you located again? I’m probably up to Thunder Bay area  once a month on average.


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## Darren (Apr 27, 2021)

Chicken lights said:


> Where are you located again? I’m probably up to Thunder Bay area  once a month on average.



I'm 10 minutes West of Thunder Bay off hwy 102.


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## Chicken lights (Apr 27, 2021)

dfloen said:


> I'm 10 minutes West of Thunder Bay off hwy 102.


Next time you find something you want drop me a line, if I can help I will


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## Darren (Apr 27, 2021)

Chicken lights said:


> Next time you find something you want drop me a line, if I can help I will



Thanks, and if you're ever in the area and need help, give me a holler


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## historicalarms (Apr 29, 2021)

Chicken lights said:


> You’ll never believe me.....
> 
> A seaweed harvester


  Those double drop's are an awesome trailer for heavy equipment...take it from someone that rode a Komatsu 155 dozer off the side of a conventional low-boy...it ain't fun. I was just a kid, first job out of high-school and probably only 2nd or thrd time loading a cat. Me and that 80,000 lb cat hit the ground on our side with only the ROPS frame holding that machine from crushing me. I walked out of er with a small bruise on my arm and an extremely black face from the summers topsoil dust that fell out of the belly pan into the fan blast...I was a steadfast BLM supporter for that short period in my life. LOL.


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## Chicken lights (Apr 30, 2021)

One last time for @YYCHM 
Maybe that’s a better shot to give you a clearer picture


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## YYCHM (Apr 30, 2021)

Chicken lights said:


> One last time for @YYCHM
> Maybe that’s a better shot to give you a clearer picture



All makes sense now. THANKS!


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