# I'm a mill beginner



## Blouin55 (Jan 26, 2022)

Just order a PDM30 from King Canada.
It is a round column machine.
What are the must tooling and accessories to get for me as a beginner...i bought mill vise, collet set, hold on set, 123 blocks.
I bought square tubing to build my own base.
I have a micrometer, a digital caliper ...
My next purchase will be a 2 inches face cutter, already have 1/8 to 1/2 in cutters.


----------



## Chip Maker (Jan 26, 2022)

Welcome from Peterborough ONT.! Drill chuck, drill index(s), center drills, parallel set and a dial indicator. To name a few.


----------



## David_R8 (Jan 26, 2022)

Congrats and welcome!
Does it have a collet chuck?


----------



## combustable herbage (Jan 26, 2022)

Welcome from Ottawa I have the same mill, I'm just starting out too, don't forget lubrication way oil cutting oil.
Your spindle is r8 for collet chucks drill chucks etc, you'll probably need a drawbar as well.
I ordered my parallels through of all place home depot.








						WEN 1/8 in. Precision-Ground Parallel Gauge Sets with Case (20-Piece) | The Home Depot Canada
					

Remember when you had maximum precision. The WEN 10-Pair Precision-Ground 1/8 in. Parallel Gauge Block Set provides machined accuracy and reliability all in the palm of your hand. Each steel block has been machined exactly to its claimed dimensions to within two 10000 in., making these the...




					www.homedepot.ca
				



I am very happy with mine so far I still need to go over it a bit more with the gauges but everything cuts nice.


----------



## YYCHM (Jan 26, 2022)

combustable herbage said:


> you'll probably need a drawbar as well.



You didn't get a draw bar with your mill????


----------



## combustable herbage (Jan 26, 2022)

YYCHM said:


> You didn't get a draw bar with your mill????


I did but not sure they come with new ones??  I don't remember seeing in the list of items but Ive been wrong before.


----------



## YYCHM (Jan 26, 2022)

@Tomc938 has the same mill as you and has added a DRO I believe.

Welcome from Calgary


----------



## Blouin55 (Jan 26, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> Congrats and welcome!
> Does it have a collet chuck?


Ibought the collet set with the chuck...thanks


----------



## Blouin55 (Jan 26, 2022)

combustable herbage said:


> Welcome from Ottawa I have the same mill, I'm just starting out too, don't forget lubrication way oil cutting oil.
> Your spindle is r8 for collet chucks drill chucks etc, you'll probably need a drawbar as well.
> I ordered my parallels through of all place home depot.
> 
> ...


Will look for the draw bar... thanks


----------



## deleted_user (Jan 26, 2022)

Welcome from Toronto.

I use a slitting saw and gear cutters pretty often, so I would recommend arbors and some saws as being handy to have for the mill


----------



## Blouin55 (Jan 26, 2022)

Chip Maker said:


> Welcome from Peterborough ONT.! Drill chuck, drill index(s), center drills, parallel set and a dial indicator. To name a few.





Blouin55 said:


> Will look for the draw bar... thanks


After looking on the web, i'm not sure about the drawbar needed for the machine. R8 er32 collets.
Have a model number or ...??


----------



## Blouin55 (Jan 26, 2022)

TorontoBuilder said:


> Welcome from Toronto.
> 
> I use a slitting saw and gear cutters pretty often, so I would recommend arbors and some saws as being handy to have for the mill


On the list !


----------



## Blouin55 (Jan 26, 2022)

Blouin55 said:


> Will look for the draw bar... thanks





combustable herbage said:


> Welcome from Ottawa I have the same mill, I'm just starting out too, don't forget lubrication way oil cutting oil.
> Your spindle is r8 for collet chucks drill chucks etc, you'll probably need a drawbar as well.
> I ordered my parallels through of all place home depot.
> 
> ...


Just looking on the web but not sure what type of drawbar needed, have  a model number?


----------



## Tomc938 (Jan 26, 2022)

Welcome!  I have that mill (as Craig mentioned) and am very happy with it.  Of course I am still learning myself.  So far I haven't run into the round column mill bane of having to raise/lower the head and losing location.  Always set for longest tool. (and the room needed to insert it into the chuck/collet) There is lots of travel on the quill.  We'll see as I go deeper into things. (pun intended)

I have explored a DRO, but have not taken the plunge yet.  I want to get a handle on manual milling before I get all digital and crazy like that.  A large number of my projects still don't require a high level of precision.  Getting a feel for the machine, but looking to go to the next level here soon as I get more comfortable with everything.

I am starting to wish I had a slitting saw or two, so I'll second John's recommendation on that one.


----------



## combustable herbage (Jan 26, 2022)

Blouin55 said:


> Just looking on the web but not sure what type of drawbar needed, have  a model number?


I must be mistaken from the kbc website it shows its included but I don't see it on the kingcanada site.


----------



## Blouin55 (Jan 26, 2022)

combustable herbage said:


> I must be mistaken from the kbc website it shows its included but I don't see it on the kingcanada site.


Could depend of the price to pay....should be a special pack.


----------



## Susquatch (Jan 26, 2022)

Blouin55 said:


> Will look for the draw bar... thanks



I think many of us want to know if it did or not. 

In my view, it would be enough for me to tell them to keep the mill if it didn't come with a draw bar! A draw bar is an essential part of the machine just like a motor, a spindle, and a table.


----------



## YYCHM (Jan 26, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> I think many of us want to know if it did or not.
> 
> In my view, it would be enough for me to tell them to keep the mill if it didn't come with a draw bar! A draw bar is an essential part of the machine just like a motor, a spindle, and a table.



I'd be royally p.ssed if it didn't come with a draw bar.  Those PDMs are something like $2500+ new.


----------



## 6.5 Fan (Jan 27, 2022)

Welcome from SK. I would not be a happy camper if the draw bar wasn't included,


----------



## LenVW (Jan 27, 2022)

Welcome to the group !!

Busy Bee has R8 Collets from 1/4 - 3/4” for $12.00ea.
Parallels are always handy or made your own of CRS Bar.


----------



## neer724 (Jan 27, 2022)

Welcome to the club!!!  You will have hours of fun making things!  In terms of tooling, buy what you need when you need it.  Many years ago when I got into this, I bought all kinds of cool tooling that I thought I would need that just sat in the box.  Granted, I did end up using them but could have spread that initial investment over months\years....

Its an addictive hobby for sure....


----------



## trlvn (Jan 27, 2022)

Blouin55 said:


> What are the must tooling and accessories to get for me as a beginner.


As you can see from the replies so far, there is a LONG list of stuff you will probably want.  But a lot depends on what you want to make with the mill.  You might want to choose a project and then figure out what tooling you really need to get it done.  And so on.

Take slitting saws, for instance.  There are itty-bitty 1" blades that are only 0.012" thick up to (at least) 6" diameter and 3/8" thick.  Obviously, they do very different jobs.  

Craig
My wife used to tease me that every wood-working project required at least one new router bit!


----------



## Crosche (Jan 27, 2022)

Greetings from Calgary and welcome to the forum. 

One thing that I would suggest is that if you are going to buy a drill chuck for your mill then get one that has an integral R8 shank. You can buy drill chucks and R8 shanks w/ Jacob tapers separately, but I believe that they are slightly longer once assembled.....or at least mine is and sometimes the extra 1/2" or so makes all of the difference.  

See example below:



			Amazon.ca


----------



## Blouin55 (Jan 27, 2022)

Like you guys said above, i would like to buy all of those accessories...
I prefer begin by receiving the machine first and look after for the must need tooling.
Thanks to all f you.


----------



## Blouin55 (Jan 27, 2022)

Crosche said:


> Greetings from Calgary and welcome to the forum.
> 
> One thing that I would suggest is that if you are going to buy a drill chuck for your mill then get one that has an integral R8 shank. You can buy drill chucks and R8 shanks w/ Jacob tapers separately, but I believe that they are slightly longer once assembled.....or at least mine is and sometimes the extra 1/2" or so makes all of the difference.
> 
> ...


There is one in the kit i bought...
Thanks


----------



## Blouin55 (Jan 27, 2022)

For the drawbar, i let a message on the King Canada site asking if the drawbar included...i'll let you know when i 'll have the answer


----------



## Blouin55 (Jan 27, 2022)

Blouin55 said:


> For the drawbar, i let a message on the King Canada site asking if the drawbar included...i'll let you know when i 'll have the answer


I received the answer from King Canada...the drawbar is included in the kit.


----------



## LenVW (Jan 27, 2022)

Take some time to get you mill setup on a sturdy and secure support.
. . . Then add as much ballast as you have available, anything heavy in your shop.
Weight will dampen the vibration that is generated during machining . . . That is why industrial mills are setup on cast iron columns and bases.
Only buy cutters & tools when you need them, unless you find a deal, it is too easy to spend a lot on thing you will rarely use.
Get to know some other ‘hobby’ machinists that will share tooling with you.


----------



## Blouin55 (Jan 27, 2022)

LenVW said:


> Take some time to get you mill setup on a sturdy and secure support.
> . . . Then add as much ballast as you have available, anything heavy in your shop.
> Weight will dampen the vibration that is generated during machining . . . That is why industrial mills are setup on cast iron columns and bases.
> Only buy cutters & tools when you need them, unless you find a deal, it is too easy to spend a lot on thing you will rarely use.
> Get to know some other ‘hobby’ machinists that will share tooling with you.


I'll keep that in mind!


----------



## LenVW (Jan 27, 2022)

Blouin55 said:


> I'll keep that in mind!


@Blouin55  where are you ?
I am trying to keep track of those local to KW-Cambridge.


----------



## Blouin55 (Jan 27, 2022)

LenVW said:


> @Blouin55  where are you ?
> I am trying to keep track of those local to KW-Cambridge.


A bit too far...in Gaspe, Qc


----------



## LenVW (Jan 27, 2022)

Gaspe is a beautiful part of Quebec.
I really enjoy Quebec City and the Eastern Townships.
My golfing buddy goes there every summer for the dart tourneys.

Are there a few CHMWs in that area ?


----------



## Blouin55 (Jan 27, 2022)

LenVW said:


> Gaspe is a beautiful part of Quebec.
> I really enjoy Quebec City and the Eastern Townships.
> My golfing buddy goes there every summer for the dart tourneys.
> 
> Are there a few CHMWs in that area ?


I dont know anybody around here on CHMW...woul like.
Would like to see if there is bodies from province of Quebec on that forum.


----------



## LenVW (Jan 27, 2022)

There are many helpful fellows in this club.
You will see many ‘West of Winnipeg’ because the CHMW was started in the Western Provinces. The numbers are growing where I am, in Ontario, and in the Maritimes.

Are you familiar with plastic drain tile ? Big O Pipe ? Soleno ?
I worked for Big O in the 1990’s.


----------



## Blouin55 (Jan 27, 2022)

LenVW said:


> There are many helpful fellows in this club.
> You will see many ‘West of Winnipeg’ because the CHMW was started in the Western Provinces. The numbers are growing where I am, in Ontario, and in the Maritimes.
> 
> Are you familiar with plastic drain tile ? Big O Pipe ? Soleno ?
> I worked for Big O in the 1990’s.


I know those plastic goods...where working in Quebec or Ontario?


----------



## LenVW (Jan 27, 2022)

The 4” plastic tile rolls went into farm drainage.
Big O Inc had plants in Boucherville & Cote de Lac in Quebec.

I worked at the Machinery Division in Exeter, Ontario.
We designed and built corrugated plastic pipe formers that made pipe up to 
48” outside diameter. The larger sizes of pipe (18, 21, 24, 30 and 36”) are used in road construction and large rainwater control systems.

After my name you see that I am in Kitchener, Ontario.
What is the name of a town near you ?


----------



## Chicken lights (Jan 27, 2022)

LenVW said:


> The 4” plastic tile rolls went into farm drainage.
> Big O Inc had plants in Boucherville & Cote de Lac in Quebec.
> 
> I worked at the Machinery Division in Exeter, Ontario.
> ...


I’ve pulled enough of that junk to suit me. There’s another place by Lancaster On that makes it, I believe, or at least they distribute it. There’s a plant in Pennsylvania I’ve hauled out of too. Actually the larger pipe isn’t bad to haul, the 4” coils are a pain in the keister.


----------



## LenVW (Jan 27, 2022)

Chicken lights said:


> I’ve pulled enough of that junk to suit me. There’s another place by Lancaster On that makes it, I believe, or at least they distribute it. There’s a plant in Pennsylvania I’ve hauled out of too. Actually the larger pipe isn’t bad to haul, the 4” coils are a pain in the keister.


Eventually we had to build our own trailers to haul the plastic pipe because we needed to ‘nest’ the smaller diameter pipes in the large pipes (which were sold in 4m lengths) otherwise there was little gross weight and lots of ’air’ in a load.
I had designed custom trailers for transporting the Coils of 4” tubing.

That tubing ‘junk’ has a 100 year lifecycle and the initial production run of 18” dual wall pipe of 4m lengths is buried under the dividing wall of the 401, from Windsor to Cornwall, Ontario.
That MTO job paid for the prototype former that I invented back in 1993.


----------



## Susquatch (Jan 27, 2022)

LenVW said:


> That tubing ‘junk’ has a 100 year lifecycle



All very interesting but I dunno if 100 years is really a good thing or a bad thing. 

I have about $100k of big O drainage tiling in my farm dirt. After about 10 years it is all plugged up from clay fines and has to be redone. As you prolly know, they use a tile plough now to install new tile. Although my wife and I have probably laid a few miles of Big O by hand, the days of laying clay tile by hand are gone. Basically, new tile is laid by ripping right through the old tile runs to lay the new ones. So if it really lasts 100 years, then 90 of those years are just wasted. It might be better if it didn't last so long. If I lived long enough, I'd prolly end up with a foot deep layer of plastic big O soil down there and the ministry will be adding a new soil type called Oh Dirt. It will be perfect for growing rice cuz nothing will drain by then. 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against BigO drainage pipe, it's easier to work with than clay tile. But I'm thinking maybe 100 years is not an ideal life span. For farming applications, it would probably be better if it disintegrated in 20 years or so. Unless they can figure out how to stop it from plugging up.


----------



## deleted_user (Jan 27, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> All very interesting but I dunno if 100 years is really a good thing or a bad thing.
> 
> I have about $100k of big O drainage tiling in my farm dirt. After about 10 years it is all plugged up from clay fines and has to be redone. As you prolly know, they use a tile plough now to install new tile. Although my wife and I have probably laid a few miles of Big O by hand, the days of laying clay tile by hand are gone. Basically, new tile is laid by ripping right through the old tile runs to lay the new ones. So if it really lasts 100 years, then 90 of those years are just wasted. It might be better if it didn't last so long. If I lived long enough, I'd prolly end up with a foot deep layer of plastic big O soil down there and the ministry will be adding a new soil type called Oh Dirt. It will be perfect for growing rice cuz nothing will drain by then.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I'm not against BigO drainage pipe, it's easier to work with than clay tile. But I'm thinking maybe 100 years is not an ideal life span. For farming applications, it would probably be better if it disintegrated in 20 years or so. Unless they can figure out how to stop it from plugging up.


we know how to stop it blocking up. farmers can't afford the installation to do it properly


----------



## LenVW (Jan 27, 2022)

The corrugated tile is supposed to have a polyester sock filter if installed in fine clay or silty loam soils as far as I can remember.
I designed production lines and machinery, contractors installed the product.


----------



## Susquatch (Jan 27, 2022)

TorontoBuilder said:


> we know how to stop it blocking up. farmers can't afford the installation to do it properly



Ya, it's already way too expensive. I can't really see paying more than I have already.


----------



## Susquatch (Jan 27, 2022)

LenVW said:


> The corrugated tile is supposed to have a polyester sock filter if installed in fine clay or silty loam soils as far as I can remember.
> I designed production lines and machinery, contractors installed the product.



Mine has the sock already. It works for sand but not clay. Clay is uber fine and goes right through the sock


----------



## Chicken lights (Jan 27, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Mine has the sock already. It works for sand but not clay. Clay is uber fine and goes right through the sock


sounds like a typical case of engineers not knowing Jack squat about actual real world conditions 

those that drive a desk know not about real life, from what I’ve experienced 

and of course the engineer blames the contractors 

moving on


----------



## LenVW (Jan 28, 2022)

Farm drainage is an expensive proposition and the application must be done properly to overcome variations in soil composition and traffic effects of the large agricultural machinery being used these days.
My father’s first tractor was a IH Super C that was the size of a present day large lawn mower.
Present day, the farm tractors are the size of military tanks and easily costs $400k +.

My brother was a company farm supervisor the last 5 years and they operated 20,000 acres of crop land while travelling 20 miles a day to get to the fields they had to plant and harvest.

Farming has changed to match the scale of feasible operations.


----------



## Susquatch (Jan 28, 2022)

LenVW said:


> My brother was a company farm supervisor the last 5 years and they operated 20,000 acres of crop land while travelling 20 miles a day to get to the fields they had to plant and harvest.



This reality makes me sad. It seems to be the way of the future though. 

Small family farms are slowly disappearing. Large corporations are slowly taking over. Government laws are favouring the big corporations, and so are the supply chains. The big guys get HEAVY discounts on supplies like seed, fertilizer, chemicals, and even machinery. Me? I gotta pay full pop for everything. Word on the farm laneway is that fertilizer is gunna double this year. If that happens, it will put me out of business. Used to be that you could join a coop to get volume discounts for members. Now the coops are their own corporations that rape you just as much. 

What is the point of a family farm if they have a board room in an office tower and they need to hire a farm supervisor to manage field operations? 

Ya, IMHO, it's all very very sad.


----------



## ducdon (Jan 29, 2022)

LenVW said:


> Take some time to get you mill setup on a sturdy and secure support.
> . . . Then add as much ballast as you have available, anything heavy in your shop.
> Weight will dampen the vibration that is generated during machining . . . That is why industrial mills are setup on cast iron columns and bases.
> Only buy cutters & tools when you need them, unless you find a deal, it is too easy to spend a lot on thing you will rarely use.
> Get to know some other ‘hobby’ machinists that will share tooling with you.


I agree, buy cutters and tools as you need them. Avoid the cheap kits from Busy Bee and Amazon. My experience is their quality ranges from mediocre to garbage. I have sets and find I use the same 2 or 3 of the kit and the rest never get used. I do quite a bit of motorcycle work and 6 and 8 mm tap drills and taps do 80 percent of the work. Get to know your local industrial supply or open a online KBC account. Their stuff isn't cheap but your level of frustration will be lower. Have fun.


----------



## Degen (Jan 29, 2022)

Get to know your tools and tooling, the same suppliers that supply KBC supply Busy Bee and Amazon.  So yes shop by price at start.  FYI while KBC staff knows me by name, they are not the cheapest or the best supplier out there, they are a good beginner source and a good have it stock source.

As a new machinist, start slow, get only what you need as you need it.  You'll invest less to start.

One other thing learn one word Carbide, cost more short term costs less long term unless break constantly.


----------

