# Hendey T&G Lathe



## Rauce (Apr 8, 2022)

Just got home about an hour ago after a long day driving to kemptville from Hamilton to pick up this lathe.

It came with many many extras including several 3 jaw chucks, spare spindle, spindle bearings and an assortment of gears, sheaves and other odds and ends. I have the cover that is missing from the machine in the photo as well.

Stopped at Cardon Tools in Perth on the way home and ended up with a rough machined 4ft Busch dovetail straight edge along with some other small stuff.


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## Brent H (Apr 8, 2022)

Wow!   Where is that candy store- Cardon Tools in Perth - that is a long drive…. That is a nice lathe too!! Way to go!!


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## Rauce (Apr 8, 2022)

Brent H said:


> Wow!   Where is that candy store- Cardon Tools in Perth - that is a long drive…. That is a nice lathe too!! Way to go!!


I was familiar with the shop from their eBay store “jrwoodca”. The physical store did not disappoint. I could have spent a whole day and every dollar I have if I had the time.


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## Susquatch (Apr 9, 2022)

That lathe looks like a beauty. Can't wait for the full inspection report, more pictures, and first chips! Nice! I bet you are a very happy camper right now! 

I showed my bride those photos and she asked why my shop couldn't be as neat and tidy as yours! She thought that was your shop! 

I'll be putting that place on my bucket list of places to go visit when I get old......


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## ShawnR (Apr 9, 2022)

__





						Cardon Tools – Buy or Sell Tools in Ottawa, Ontario
					






					cardontools.com


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## Whiskers31 (Apr 9, 2022)

Lots of iron on that machine won’t be too much chatter


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## Rauce (Apr 9, 2022)

Just getting set up for removal from the trailer. The non-removable ramp on the trailer makes it impossible to use the engine hoist I borrowed from work. 

I removed the straps and the haggard tarp from yesterday and liberally sprayed down all the exposed surfaces with WD-40. Retarped for now since it’s raining a bit. 

Got the ramp assembled. This is the same method we used to load the machine.

I used the tongue jack to get the trailer to slope slightly and put some weight on two jack stands at the back end to keep the trailer stable as the machine slides towards the back. Chocked wheels for good measure. 

I’ll put it on pipes and use a 1ton hoist and a recovery strap to control its roll to the back and down the ramp. 

Now to wait for the rain to go away!


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## Rauce (Apr 9, 2022)

As I set up I thought I may need another person but it became clear I could do it on my own but just go slower. 

I had a couple friends available later this afternoon but wanted to get the trailer back to uhaul to avoid a late fee. 

Took a little over an hour to get it down the ramp going a few inches at a time and going around to adjust pipes etc. No muscle needed.

Maybe later today or tomorrow once things dry out I’ll get the tarp off and do some inspection before getting into partial disassembly.


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## Susquatch (Apr 9, 2022)

Rauce said:


> I removed the straps and the haggard tarp from yesterday and liberally sprayed down all the exposed surfaces with WD-40. Retarped for now since it’s raining a bit.



Great job @Rauce !

Just a note of Caution. WD-40 is a poor rust preventer but works great on stuff that got wet. WD stands for Water Displacing. I forget what the 40 meant but I have a faint recollection that it just stands for the 40th formulation they tested.

Although others will argue and perhaps even have other experiences, my own personal experience is that WD-40 is a lousy rust preventer. It evaporates way too fast and doesnt leave enough protectant behind. I can't begin to list all the things I thought I was protecting with WD-40 only to find them rusted like crazy later on. I've seen tests and reports that say otherwise. But there is nothing like personal experience to test their credibility.

The same company does make a special rust preventer though - It is called wd-40 Rust Specialist. I bought some but have not tried it yet.

My goto volume rust preventer is "Fluid Film". For my really good stuff I use Remington Gun Oil *with VCI. * The VCI part is essential. Not all Remington Oil has it. Stands for Volatile Corrosion Inhibitor. The stuff vaporizers and finds its way into every crack and crevice in the metal. Still wishing I could find some bulk VCI.

All the above is just my own experience based on living in Canada's worst Rust Zone (high humidity & high temp). All of Southern Ontario is bad but Windsor area is the worst.

So ya, by all means spray it down with WD-40 when it's raining, but follow up as soon as you can with proper rust protection.


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## phaxtris (Apr 9, 2022)

sweet new lathe!

I agree with @Susquatch, wd40 is pretty crap for rust prevention, if its going to sit out there for a while i would use something better, i like ad3000 or fluid film, seems to stick around, and not to terrible to clean up


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## Rauce (Apr 9, 2022)

Yeah I chose WD-40 since it was already a wet under the tarp this morning. I wiped most of the WD-40 off this afternoon and put some way oil on the exposed surfaces. 

I’ve never used fluid film but I can get some LPS from work if needed. It’s a rust inhibitor that dries as a waxy film. 

I’m mulling over my plan of attack right now. 

The chip pan is bent and I originally wasn’t going to bother with fixing it. I’m now realizing that I can do a much better job of cleaning up the base for paint if I remove the bed, headstock etc. at which point the chip pan would be off and I might as well straighten it then. 

So I think I’ll remove the bed and headstock and repurpose my ramp material to make a dolly to put that on and wheel it into the shop. The base I can keep under a tarp outside until I have an opportunity to bring it in to work to bead blast and paint it.


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## phaxtris (Apr 9, 2022)

tear down, blast, paint, its going to look like a million bucks when your done!


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## Tom O (Apr 9, 2022)

Rauce said:


> Just got home about an hour ago after a long day driving to kemptville from Hamilton to pick up this lathe.
> 
> It came with many many extras including several 3 jaw chucks, spare spindle, spindle bearings and an assortment of gears, sheaves and other odds and ends. I have the cover that is missing from the machine in the photo as well.
> 
> Stopped at Cardon Tools in Perth on the way home and ended up with a rough machined 4ft Busch dovetail straight edge along with some other small stuff.


It looks like part of a scraping straight edge in the 3rd picture (left side middle) if anyone is looking for one.


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## Rauce (Apr 9, 2022)

Tom O said:


> It looks like part of a scraping straight edge in the 3rd picture (left side middle) if anyone is looking for one.


That was the last one… and it belongs to me now! Haha 

It’s an unfinished Busch 6748 dovetail straight edge. Paid $250 for it.


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## Rauce (Apr 9, 2022)

phaxtris said:


> tear down, blast, paint, its going to look like a million bucks when your done!


I’m really hoping I don’t get burnt out on this project. 

Disassemble, clean, dimensionally inspect, repair, paint and reassemble is what I do all day at work lol.


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## Tom O (Apr 9, 2022)

Rauce said:


> That was the last one… and it belongs to me now! Haha
> 
> It’s an unfinished Busch 6748 dovetail straight edge. Paid $250 for it.


Doh! So what else are’nt you telling us? There is definitely tools to drool over there.


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## Rauce (Apr 9, 2022)

Tom O said:


> Doh! So what else are’nt you telling us? There is definitely tools to drool over there.


I was originally going to buy one of the angle blocks also in that same photo but went with the straight edge instead. Other than that I got a small tap wrench, a couple slitting saws and a couple countersinks. That was rest of the cash I brought with me so I left it at that.


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## Rauce (Apr 10, 2022)

Last night before it got too dark to see what I was doing I took all the covers off the base and removed the motor, motor mount and levelling screws. 

This morning I consolidated the spare parts into two bins and set up a little temporary work bench where my old lathe used to be. 

The lathe came with three chucks, each with shortcomings. The largest is an 8” SCA steel 3 jaw that is missing the hard top jaws but came with aluminum soft jaws. I started in on it and it is grimy but in good condition with minimal rust. I’ll have look into hard top jaws for it, hopefully not too expensive. 8” is a bit big for this lathe but it would still be a useful chuck to have. 

The other two are both cushman 3 jaw chucks. One is a very clean 5” chuck that only has the reverse type one piece jaws. Not sure if the regular one piece jaws can be easily sourced. 

The least desirable chuck of the three is a pretty grimy 6” cushman that is a direct mount for a 2-1/4” (I think) threaded spindle and has been fitted to a home brew adapter of some sort. I’ll probably seperate the adapter and sell this one later. 

I also realized last night that this lathe has an MT2 tailstock. Many of my centres, drill chucks etc. are that size from use on my old bench top Logan but quite a few things I bought for my last lathe will no longer be useful. I’ve offered them for sale to the guy that bought my Churchill lathe but if he doesn’t take anything I will post them in the classifieds here.


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## Susquatch (Apr 10, 2022)

@Rauce and others. 

News Flash! Wd40 Specialist Corrosion Inhibitor contains a VCI!!! That makes it an outstanding long term corrosion protection coating. 

After checking the details, I'll prolly be ordering a case of it.


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## Rauce (Apr 10, 2022)

Into the thick of it now! 

With the carriage off I have a much better view of the ways. 

The carriage rides on the V on both sides. There is enough wear that you can see and feel it since the wear leaves a small ledge towards the bottom of the V. 

The flat ways and inside angle that the tailstock rides on don’t show any visible wear other than some nicks and staining. 

I’m going to try to quantify the wear soon using a precision V block and indicating to it from the flat way. If I had to put a guess on it I’d say maybe .004” in the most worn area.


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## Canadium (Apr 10, 2022)

Rauce said:


> Disassemble, clean, dimensionally inspect, repair, paint and reassemble is what I do all day at work lol.


You're a pro at this then! I really hope you will tell us all the details of how you do this project!!!


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## trlvn (Apr 10, 2022)

There seems to be a lot of tags and labels on the back of the headstock.  Does this give you a bit of the machine's history?

Craig


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## Rauce (Apr 10, 2022)

So here’s the check I was talking about earlier to look at wear on the carriage ways.

This is the only V block I have the sits on the ways without bottoming out on the flat. I initially checked to the narrow flat edge on the top and then I thought it may be more accurate to put a dowel in the top V to check height at the center.

On the back V way I see about .004” total variation. On the front I can’t get at the whole length yet because the apron is in the way but I suspect the total will be .005-.006”.

To check the reference surface here (the flat ways) I put a 36” Starrett straight edge on them and shined a flashlight on one side and looked for light. I saw nothing, so for good measure I put a .001” feeler under one end of the straight edge and checked again and could see a bit of light so I’m confident the flat ways are near factory spec.

The next check I want to do is with a test bar. I have a ground 3MT test bar I bought off eBay for my last lathe but I’ll need a reducer to put it in the larger spindle bore on this lathe.

I did take a look at tailstock alignment while it was still on and found it was sitting .007” low. I suspect this may be because this lathe had the headstock replaced with one off another machine.


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## Rauce (Apr 10, 2022)

trlvn said:


> There seems to be a lot of tags and labels on the back of the headstock.  Does this give you a bit of the machine's history?
> 
> Craig


Yes it does! Even tells me the original purchase price haha


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## Darren (Apr 10, 2022)

I have a couple items with the brass US Navy tags, same as yours.


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## Rauce (Apr 10, 2022)

It was definitely originally sold to the navy but it has other stickers on it for I think the USDA. 

It was bought from a government auction in WA about 10 years ago by a guy in Montana. He had it stored in someone’s barn for years and when he finally went to see it he found the headstock was cracked like something had fallen on it in storage. 

The guy I bought it from picked it up mainly for the taper attachment and replaced the headstock with one from his other parts machine. 

Except for the taper attachment it’s complete and fully functional, I saw it run when I picked it up. The replacement headstock casting doesn’t line up with the other castings perfectly though. 

The previous owner actually has original drawings for the taper attachment so if I’m feeling ambitious I could make one eventually.


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## trlvn (Apr 11, 2022)

Maybe you already know, but there are some Hendey publications available for free from the Vintage Machinery site:





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						Hendey Machine Co. - Publication Reprints | VintageMachinery.org
					





					www.vintagemachinery.org
				




Might pick up a nugget or two there.

As well, a member there submitted photos of a 1953 9X24 that looks in showroom condition:











__





						Photo Index - Hendey Machine Co. - Tool and Gage Makers lathe | VintageMachinery.org
					





					www.vintagemachinery.org
				




Craig


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## Six O Two (Apr 11, 2022)

Amazing work, @Rauce. Speaking as a guy who has plans to refurb/clean some machines, and said machines have already been sitting in my shop for years, I'm particularly impressed with how quick you're getting into the nitty gritty!

Definitely putting Cardon Tools down as a must-visit next time I visit my folks in Ottawa.


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## Rauce (Apr 11, 2022)

Six O Two said:


> Amazing work, @Rauce. Speaking as a guy who has plans to refurb/clean some machines, and said machines have already been sitting in my shop for years, I'm particularly impressed with how quick you're getting into the nitty gritty!
> 
> Definitely putting Cardon Tools down as a must-visit next time I visit my folks in Ottawa.


I think the best time to do it is right when you get it!

The last few machines I’ve acquired I disassembled and gave them a good clean/minor mechanical repairs but no paint or any refinishing of precision surfaces.

This time I want to do it all the way since I know full well I won’t take it completely apart for many years.


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## Rauce (Apr 11, 2022)

Progress will slow now that the big weekend is done and I’m back to work and have other projects to wrap up. 

I took the tarp off this evening, put some tools away and gave everything another coating of fluidfilm. 

I did pull out the carriage, gave it a quick cleaning and got it on the surface plate for some inspection. 

I sat it on dowel pins on top of 1-2-3 blocks to get the necessary clearance. No rocking even though it’s on 4 points. 

I swept the flat part of the cross slide ways and there was no variation detectable from end to end in the direction of travel with a .0005” indicator. There was a .004” difference in height between the two but that’s somewhat irrelevant provided the upper component matches. 

I measured across the dovetails with small dowel pins and a Micrometer. There was .0014” total variation but not trending in any particular variation. If you look at the image I marked up the two red lines are the smallest measurements and the rest are within .0005”. 

Pretty happy with this, I don’t think
I’ll have to do any scraping on the cross slide, just a good cleaning and a light stoning.


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## Susquatch (Apr 11, 2022)

Rauce said:


> I took the tarp off this evening, put some tools away and gave everything another coating of fluidfilm.



That fluid film is good for a solid 6 months. I first heard about it from the City Maintenance Crew. They coat all their snow removal equipment with it to stop it from rusting outside over the summer. I figured if it worked for their salt laden equipment it would work for my farm equipment. And it has. 

Nice to see your baby showing its lineage.


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## Shapeaholic (Apr 11, 2022)

*Hello Rauce*
I thought I'd drop by and see what you can do with the wreck I sold you LOL
I have lots of Hendey info if you need it.
Peter


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## YotaBota (Apr 11, 2022)

Good to see the trip went well. If you're looking for a 5" 3 jaw, HH Roberts has NOS Bison with a screw on backing plate. Remove the screw on backing plate and fit a D1-4 backing plate and away you go.





						3 and 4 jaw chucks for bench lathes
					

6" Atlas original 4 jaw lathe chucks and Bison 5" 3 jaw chucks with 1 1/2 x 8 integral mounts



					www.hhrobertsmachinery.com
				



Can't go wrong for $190 cdn if the 5" will do you.


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## David_R8 (Apr 11, 2022)

YotaBota said:


> Good to see the trip went well. If you're looking for a 5" 3 jaw, HH Roberts has NOS Bison with a screw on backing plate. Remove the screw on backing plate and fit a D1-4 backing plate and away you go.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I can't believe they still have stock.


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## Rauce (Apr 11, 2022)

YotaBota said:


> Good to see the trip went well. If you're looking for a 5" 3 jaw, HH Roberts has NOS Bison with a screw on backing plate. Remove the screw on backing plate and fit a D1-4 backing plate and away you go.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow, do you know if the 6” Atlas 4 jaw they have can also be swapped for D1-4? 

I tend to use a 4 jaw more often so I think that should be by first chuck purchase.


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## YYCHM (Apr 11, 2022)

Rauce said:


> Wow, do you know if the 6” Atlas 4 jaw they have can also be swapped for D1-4?
> 
> I tend to use a 4 jaw more often so I think that should be by first chuck purchase.



I'll take the threaded backplate off your hands


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## Darren (Apr 11, 2022)

Its funny, I pulled the saddle off my 10ee today and did the same thing. Mine has similar wear, nothing serious.


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## David_R8 (Apr 12, 2022)

Rauce said:


> Wow, do you know if the 6” Atlas 4 jaw they have can also be swapped for D1-4?
> 
> I tend to use a 4 jaw more often so I think that should be by first chuck purchase.


If it's the same 4-jaw as the one @YotaBota showed me I believe the spindle is integral to the chuck.


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## YotaBota (Apr 12, 2022)

@Rauce - unfortunately for you the 4 jaw has the casting threaded, no backing plate. This picture is just one off the net, the Atlas is finished much nicer.


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## Rauce (Apr 13, 2022)

Next thing I want to do aside from continuing with disassembly is check the headstock alignment. 

I have a MT3 test bar I bought on eBay a couple years ago when I set up my last lathe. I couldn’t remember how good it was so I reinspected it tonight. No more than a tenth anywhere I checked it. Incredible for something that I don’t think cost me more than $50. 

I ordered a mt5-3 sleeve on Amazon so I can put this in the spindle and popped it on the test bar to check runout. I was getting 5-9 tenths depending on the orientation I installed the sleeve. I think this will do for now but I might invest in a MT5 test bar as well. A bit more expensive but if it’s just as good as this one I already have then it will be worth it.


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## Rauce (Apr 17, 2022)

The results of my headstock check was that, at least in one plane the headstock is as aligned as I could measure relative to the flat ways (which it’s mounted on). 

Thanks to a phone call with @Shapeaholic about order of disassembly I got the apron off along with the feed shaft and leadscrew. The gear box was fairly easy to come off next. 

Wear in the feed shaft keyway isn’t too bad, so I don’t think that will need to be replaced. 

I was warned that this machine is full of taper pins and that’s definitely the case. Luckily steam turbines are also full of taper pins! So I have plenty of experience there. Thinking to bring my taper pin puller home from my toolbox at work would have helped but I managed.


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## Rauce (Apr 20, 2022)

Headless hendey!

Did some more checks with my straight edge now that head is off and ways are totally clear.

The flat ways don’t seem to have much wear at all. Some light through the straight edge in spots but I can’t get a .001” feeler through anywhere with the straight edge across where the headstock mounts. The v ways are worn on the outsides mainly, the front of the front and the back of the back. Both about .005”.

I will definitely need new belts for the spindle. Back gear belts I don’t know for sure yet. Motor belts are nearly new.

I’m planning to get over to the grinding shop next week to talk about getting it ground. As much as I’d like to have all the surfaces redone just for looks, lowering the flat ways could cause some issues with the back gear mechanism. So I may just have the V ways cleaned up, scrape the carriage to suit, and then have to account for the change in height where the apron attaches somehow.


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## Darren (Apr 20, 2022)

you're going to town on that machine!

It will be interesting to hear the price of grinding the bed.


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## Shapeaholic (Apr 21, 2022)

Rauce said:


> So I may just have the V ways cleaned up, scrape the carriage to suit, and then have to account for the change in height where the apron


The best way to do this is to align the carriage on the bed with adjustable screw blocks and then mold the carriage to the correct height with Moglice. That's what I did with my Hendey T&G and I couldn't be happier with the result.
Messing around with aligning the gearboxes is a whole lot less fun.
Peter


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## Mcgyver (Apr 22, 2022)

Hi Peter, good to see you here
Mike


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## Rauce (Apr 24, 2022)

Shapeaholic said:


> The best way to do this is to align the carriage on the bed with adjustable screw blocks and then mold the carriage to the correct height with Moglice. That's what I did with my Hendey T&G and I couldn't be happier with the result.
> Messing around with aligning the gearboxes is a whole lot less fun.
> Peter


I’m going to take some measurements with the carriage at the back where the wear is minimal so I have a reference. What route I go to get it back into that position later might depend on how much comes off the bed when I get it ground. I found the manual for the moglice product, so I have a good idea what’s required to use that product. 

Today I got the last few pieces of the power transmission out of the bed and the base. Then I started in on stripping paint from the easily accessed surfaces on the bed casting. I decided to do this now since the chip pan catches most of the paint as it gets scraped off and it’s at a convenient height. Some of the paint may have to get stripped later when I take the bed off.


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## Rauce (May 3, 2022)

Not a whole lot of progress lately. I bead blasted the covers for the base last week and dropped them off to get painted with a friend. 

Took the bed off this morning and built a pallet for it. Hoping to get the base bead blasted in the next week or two. 

The chip pan needs to be straightened. Not sure yet how to attempt this, any advice would be appreciated.


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## YotaBota (May 3, 2022)

Rauce said:


> The chip pan needs to be straightened.


Can you clamp a 2x4 (you may need something a bit stiffer) on edge across the bent area and then use a clamp to pull the bend back straight? I'm guessing the chip tray is sheet metal.
Edit - is that a rolled edge on the tray?


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## Susquatch (May 3, 2022)

Rauce said:


> The chip pan needs to be straightened. Not sure yet how to attempt this, any advice would be appreciated.



If the 2x4 or stiffer idea doesn't work out, it sounds like a trip to my farm might be in order. Nothing beats the weight and hydraulic ooomph of a tractor to straighten stuff out. 

Typically, I'll use the front cutting edge of the loader bucket against an appropriate form to bend almost anything to almost any shape. The biggest problem I ever encounter is "whoops - I guess that was too much..."


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## Rauce (May 3, 2022)

YotaBota said:


> Can you clamp a 2x4 (you may need something a bit stiffer) on edge across the bent area and then use a clamp to pull the bend back straight? I'm guessing the chip tray is sheet metal.
> Edit - is that a rolled edge on the tray?


Yeah it’s a rolled edge. Not all my pictures showed up in the last post for some reason. You can see someone’s been at it with heat already.


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## Susquatch (May 3, 2022)

Rauce said:


> Yeah it’s a rolled edge. Not all my pictures showed up in the last post for some reason. You can see someone’s been at it with heat already.



Ya, the tractor would fix that for you easy peasy.


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## YotaBota (May 3, 2022)

Ya,,,, a 2x4 for isn't going to cut it, that thing looks 3/32 or better plate. I'd use the same principle but maybe try using the leg from the engine stand instead of the 2x4. Make the inside straight and then replace the crushed edge by welding in a piece of pipe or barstock of the same diameter. Grind smooth and paint, good as new.


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## Rauce (May 4, 2022)

Yeah I think making some strategic cuts through the rolled edge and then straightening against some square tube with clamps will be my approach. If needed I have a couple bottle jacks I can use with some kind of fabricobbled fixturing. 

Then once I get it straightened out I can weld up the cuts and grind smooth.


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## Darren (May 4, 2022)

weld threaded studs to the rolled edge,make a bridge out of heavy steel angle/channel to span the damaged area, use nuts to pull damage out and a BFH to convince it..


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## Susquatch (May 4, 2022)

Darren said:


> weld threaded studs to the rolled edge,make a bridge out of heavy steel angle/channel to span the damaged area, use nuts to pull damage out and a BFH to convince it..



Or come and visit the farm @Rauce . No BFH required. Just feed the monster a little diesel and she will straighten you out lickity split! YaaaaHoooo!


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## Rauce (May 4, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Or come and visit the farm @Rauce . No BFH required. Just feed the monster a little diesel and she will straighten you out lickity split! YaaaaHoooo!


We’ll see how I make out with what I have lying around, if I don’t succeed I’ll make the trip!


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## Susquatch (May 4, 2022)

Rauce said:


> We’ll see how I make out with what I have lying around, if I don’t succeed I’ll make the trip!



This is one of those things where many prolly think I'm kidding, but I'm not. My loader will lift its entire own weight with the front loader bucket. It's 84" wide with a straight lip made of 3/4" plate. All I'd do for a big pan like that is support it properly and then put the bucket on it with appropriate back structure to bend it how you want. Think of it a bit like a 5 ton press but with an 8 ft wide straight edge made of 3/4" plate. You can shorten the edge however much is needed by adding another shorter plate.


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## Rauce (May 6, 2022)

I have no doubt the tractor would do it! It’s not a short drive though… 

I gave it a shot today, still a bit of work to do but it’s much better. 

First thing I did was make two cuts through the rolled edge with a recip saw on either side of the worst part. Tweaked the outside bits mostly straight with a steel block and a big crescent wrench. 






Then I used a piece of square tube, wooden blocks and pretty much all my clamps to bend the dented rolled edge back to being straightish. 











At that point the two remaining issues were a dent just inside the curve under that section and the back right corner lifting up when the pan is bolted to the base. 











I tried to undo the dent by taking the pan off, flipping it over and jumping on it/hitting with a BFH. Helped a bit but not totally fixed. Decided to move on. 

To tweak the base of the pan flat again I used long bolts and pieces of 2x4 to bolt the pan to base with space to push down on that corner. Used a calibrated weight of 225lbs to push down on it. Seemed to work, I’ll see tomorrow when I take the wood out and bolt it straight to the base. 






Once I’m done I’ll weld up the cuts I made and grind smooth. Since it’s the back side I’m not too worried about perfection but I want it to not be noticeable unless you’re really looking.


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## Susquatch (May 7, 2022)

Rauce said:


> I have no doubt the tractor would do it! It’s not a short drive though…
> 
> I gave it a shot today, still a bit of work to do but it’s much better.
> 
> ...



Awesome @Rauce !

Calibrated weight eh? LMAO!


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## Rauce (May 7, 2022)

Not sitting 100% flat when bolted down but I’m happy with it. 

Tig welded the cuts and ground down. After I blast it I’ll smooth out the wonky areas with some filler.


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## Rauce (May 13, 2022)

I flipped the bed over every which way to finish cleaning as much of the paint off as possible the other night. The bed is now done and ready to go for grinding whenever that happens. 






Then I got into the headstock. The spindle has to come out to put new belts in and removing all that stuff for now will also make cleaning and painting easier. It was a a bit of puzzle but didn’t take me too long. 











I loaded up the base, chip pan and headstock last night to bring in to work today. The base and chip pan are getting bead blasted. The headstock will go in the big ultrasonic cleaner to get the grime off and hopefully some of the paint (caustic solution). 






On another note, does anyone know how to turn images right side up? They’re in the correct orientation on my phone before uploading and I can’t seem to find a way to change it on the forum once they’re uploaded…


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## Rauce (May 15, 2022)

Got it blasted on Friday and did a bit of filling and sanding yesterday.

I was originally going to do a mix of brush and rattlecan with tremclad and when I told my painter friend that plan he was adamant I should let him handle it lol

He came by today with a spray gun to lay down some high fill primer on the base. Other than my mastercrap compressor tripping the thermal overload in the heat today all went well. I’m going to do some more sanding and filling if necessary this afternoon and he may come back to do a seal coat of primer tonight.


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## Canadium (May 15, 2022)

Rauce said:


> I was originally going to do a mix of brush and rattlecan with tremclad and when I told my painter friend that plan he was adamant I should let him handle it lol


I hate brush coats. No matter how hard I try it never looks acceptable to me. A roller on flat surfaces can be acceptable. I started experimenting with HVLP last year and totally loved it.


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## Rauce (May 15, 2022)

Canadium said:


> I hate brush coats. No matter how hard I try it never looks acceptable to me. A roller on flat surfaces can be acceptable. I started experimenting with HVLP last year and totally loved it.



I had planned to use some combination of brush and roller on the base and then spray the smaller pieces with cans. We brush paint most stuff at work and it usually looks okay, I think the inconsistent surface of castings and the brush pattern sort of blend together to look okay... 

I don't much about paint chemistry but my friends main issue with my plan was using enamel paint. He explained that enamel paints are not very resistant to oils or temperature changes over time so if I wanted the paint on my machine to hold up in the long term a two part finish would be superior.


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## Canadium (May 16, 2022)

Rauce said:


> I don't much about paint chemistry but my friends main issue with my plan was using enamel paint. He explained that enamel paints are not very resistant to oils or temperature changes over time so if I wanted the paint on my machine to hold up in the long term a two part finish would be superior.



Thats interesting! I wonder if he's using hardener? Other types of paints are either very hazardous to use, expensive or just hard to find.


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## Susquatch (May 16, 2022)

Canadium said:


> I started experimenting with HVLP last year and totally loved it.



Which one did you get?


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## Rauce (May 16, 2022)

Canadium said:


> Thats interesting! I wonder if he's using hardener? Other types of paints are either very hazardous to use, expensive or just hard to find.


I believe the top coat will be a polyurethane type paint. Not sure what the primer is. 

He paints motorcycles, bicycle frames, custom signage etc. for a living. The covers for the base and any other small stuff will be done in his booth.


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## Canadium (May 16, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Which one did you get?



I just started with a bunch of Princess Auto sale specials ( I never pay full price for anything unless its really really unavoidable). Nothing expensive but they worked beautifully. I did loads of research on the subject before redoing my lathes last year but in the end still feel like I don't know much about it. This was my Youtube inspiration,





The whole field of old machinery repainting/restoration is a study unto itself. As far as I know there is no modern authoritative treatise on the subject. Just a shite load of personal opinions on the net. So any time I see an experienced pro repainting old machinery my ears are wide open to hearing all the details of how they did it.


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## PeterT (May 16, 2022)

If I was painting a machine, I would consider Endura & use their dedicated catalyzed primer/sealer. The system is used extensively in harsh mechanical/chemical environments but can be bought in reasonable volumes. But (like most tough finishes) it contains isocyanates & requires using respirator. Mostly I have sprayed it as its prescribed with reducer but on some projects I didn't really care about finish (example engine test stand), I just used roller & brush. Its viscosity isn't quite as thick as say Tremclad, but I think it could work on a machine. Another option is their 2K spray bombs but you are committed to using the can basically in a session because the catalyst is activated. I have a buddy that does this on is race car components & just cant be bothered to get the gun & compressor out. His finish on panels, roll bars.. stuff like that, looks better than any metalworking machine I've seen. Paint is getting really spendy these days so choose wisely. Don't put good paint on crappy primer because you just don't have the proper adhesion base. 









						Endura Paint - Leading manufacturer of epoxy and polyurethane
					

Endura is a manufacturer of high performance polyurethane and epoxy industrial coatings. Product lines include, industrial paint systems, easy clean anti-graffiti coatings and environmentally friendly primers and topcoats.




					www.endurapaint.com


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## Canadium (May 16, 2022)

PeterT said:


> If I was painting a machine, I would consider Endura & use their dedicated catalyzed primer/sealer. The system is used extensively in harsh mechanical/chemical environments but can be bought in reasonable volumes. But (like most tough finishes) it contains isocyanates & requires using respirator. ......
> 
> 
> 
> ...



A case in point. By all accounts I have read many of the nice durable automotive paints use isocyanates. Also have read that some people have poisoned themselves with these evn though they wore respirators and were experienced painters. Not clear to me how I would get this stuff in Ontario?


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## PeterT (May 16, 2022)

I Googled 'Endura & Ontario' & it came back with a few hits. Sorry I assumed it was a bit more wide spread, but maybe a bit more niche to our local industries. Its been around Calgary & Edmonton for decades but that doesn't do you much good. Kind of weird because I know its used in FS aviation quite a bit too. I can't comment on the isocyanates stories anymore than obvious wisdom: always read the SDS, cross reference to appropriate PPG. If you still don't feel safe, don't use it. That goes for any chemical or substances. 





__





						Directory - Endura Paint
					






					www.endurapaint.com
				







__





						Endura Paint
					

High performance polyurethane and epoxy coatings. Product lines include, industrial paint systems, easy clean anti-graffiti coatings and environmentally friendly primers and topcoats.



					www.rayplex.ca


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## Canadium (May 17, 2022)

If not the exact same product then similar ones must also be available in Ontario. Not as easily accessible though to the home consumer as the ubiquitous Tremclad. Probably with good reason because they are very expensive and very dangerous to use. Isocyanates can be absorbed through the skin and since a respirator only covers a small fraction of a persons total skin area it won't prevent poisoning even if the respirator is perfect which it probably isn't. You would need a full body covering and a very well ventilated application area.


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## Mcgyver (May 17, 2022)

I don't bother painting most machines, scrape and get them performing like new, but paint?  They end up looking like crap after couple of years of coolant and chips anyway.

....but

If I was going to, I think POR-15 is the stuff to use.  Anything else that tough, i.e. two part urethane full of isocyanates are potentially deadly.    No joke, some people have an extreme intolerance to them, for others the intolerance accumulates over time.  To spray professionally, we'd need to provide a positive pressure suit and have the painter get regular medical checks ups.  That's the law.  A respirator is not enough, you need a suit to avoid skin contact as its just as absorbed that way - OHSA as readily as if breathing it.









						Why Are Isocyanates so Dangerous? | Global Finishing Solutions
					

Paint booths are not capable of protecting painters faces and bodies from exposure to hazardous chemicals and fumes while spraying.




					globalfinishing.com
				




Here's a handy little guide - How to prevent death when spraying it



			https://www.votechsafety.net/techs/sites/default/files/inline-files/WA_LNI_TruckLinersGuide2004.pdf
		


This is not safety nazi stuff.  You might use it and be fine, but its seriously bad stuff not to be trifled with.

(afaik) that not the case with POR-15, ....but its supposed to be as tough as the fleet paints like Imron.  Its got a short life once you open the can, is expensive and only comes in limited colours and a few other fussy things ......but afaik it is the only paint that would give you an Imron like toughness and is feasible to apply at home.   I think you'd want to suit up to spray it, but many get good results with a good brush.  Anything less tough, I don't think it will last.


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## Canadium (May 17, 2022)

Mcgyver said:


> I don't bother painting most machines, scrape and get them performing like new, but paint?  They end up looking like crap after couple of years of coolant and chips anyway.
> 
> ....but
> 
> If I was going to, I think POR-15 is the stuff to use.



Firstly I was a bit taken aback a little while ago when I found a really good YouTube video relevant to my South Bend where the guy had completely stripped all the paint from his lathe and left it naked!  It just violated all my preconceived notions about machinery. The more I thought about it though the more I thought it wasn't such a bad idea and wondered if I shouldn't do the same with my lathe!

Secondly regarding POR 15 I'm wondering what the best source would be? Amazon?


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## David_R8 (May 17, 2022)

Canadium said:


> Firstly I was a bit taken aback a little while ago when I found a really good YouTube video relevant to my South Bend where the guy had completely stripped all the paint from his lathe and left it naked!  It just violated all my preconceived notions about machinery. The more I thought about it though the more I thought it wasn't such a bad idea and wondered if I shouldn't do the same with my lathe!
> 
> Secondly regarding POR 15 I'm wondering what the best source would be? Amazon?


I used to be able to get POR-15 at Napa. That was years ago mind you so maybe not now.


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## Mcgyver (May 17, 2022)

"The Naked Lathe"

sounds like a youtube channel.

If I remember, on the POR-15,  there is a distributor in Montreal, but it might be more widely available.  I should emphasize I haven't used it, but did a lot of looking at one point for the ultimate machine paint and that was it.  I was that or lug everything to some place that would spray Imron.


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## Susquatch (May 17, 2022)

Mcgyver said:


> "The Naked Lathe"
> 
> sounds like a youtube channel.
> 
> If I remember, on the POR-15,  there is a distributor in Montreal, but it might be more widely available.  I should emphasize I haven't I haven't used it, but did a lot looking at one point for the ultimate machine paint and that was it.  I was that or lug everything to some place that would spray Imron.



I like it..... "The Naked Lathe"...... I like it a LOT!


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## Rauce (May 17, 2022)

There's must be a POR-15 distributor in Canada, you can buy the POR-15 rust convertor at crappy tire. It's not cheap but supposed to be the best for that application. I bought some to do the frame on my tacoma (I bought it second hand outside of the frame recall/warranty period) but ended up selling the truck before I could get around to it. The frame was sound but I had wanted to be sure it would last. If anyone needs a can at a discount let me know! haha

I do agree that repainting a machine is often more trouble than it's worth. In this case I decided to do it because the last time it was painted it was done very badly. There was paint flaking off all over and the large components were very grimy. Bead blasting the base and the chip pan dealt with the grime and the peeling paint. I found that the original paint underneath was very well adhered, they must have used a quality product. Similarly the original finish on the inside of the bed and gearboxes is in good condition and I won't be touching it. The only place where the original finish had been worn through was on parts of the bed and the pan that see a lot of chips.


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## David_R8 (May 17, 2022)

Rauce said:


> There's must be a POR-15 distributor in Canada, you can buy the POR-15 rust convertor at crappy tire. It's not cheap but supposed to be the best for that application. I bought some to do the frame on my tacoma (I bought it second hand outside of the frame recall/warranty period) but ended up selling the truck before I could get around to it. The frame was sound but I had wanted to be sure it would last. If anyone needs a can at a discount let me know! haha
> 
> I do agree that repainting a machine is often more trouble than it's worth. In this case I decided to do it because the last time it was painted it was done very badly. There was paint flaking off all over and the large components were very grimy. Bead blasting the base and the chip pan dealt with the grime and the peeling paint. I found that the original paint underneath was very well adhered, they must have used a quality product. Similarly the original finish on the inside of the bed and gearboxes is in good condition and I won't be touching it. The only place where the original finish had been worn through was on parts of the bed and the pan that see a lot of chips.







__





						Home Page POR 15
					






					por15canada.ca


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## Rauce (May 30, 2022)

The base is painted, bed goes for grinding tomorrow. 






Been working on the headstock, cleaning, filling and priming. 






Once the bed is back it’s next up for paint and I can move the lathe into its position in the garage.


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## Brent H (May 30, 2022)

Great job so far!!!  Nice work !!


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## Susquatch (May 30, 2022)

Rauce said:


> bed goes for grinding tomorrow.



Great work @Rauce !

Looking very good

Where on earth did you find someone to grind the bed? And what is the extent of their work?


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## PeterT (May 30, 2022)

What paint system did you end up going with?


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## Rauce (May 30, 2022)

PeterT said:


> What paint system did you end up going with?


Single stage urethane from a paint shop my painter friend deals with. I don’t think it’s anything special but since it’s a urethane it will at least be more durable than enamel.


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## Rauce (May 30, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Great work @Rauce !
> 
> Looking very good
> 
> Where on earth did you find someone to grind the bed? And what is the extent of their work?


Mississauga, DiPaolo Machine Tools.

As far as I can tell they’re the only place around with a dedicated way grinding machine. Next closest I could find was Detroit and they never got back to me. 

it’s not cheap but I’ve come this far and I didn’t pay that much up front for the machine so I’m making it happen. I have an original dimensioned drawing of the way profile for them to work off of. They’re pros and provide a full inspection report with how much they took off each surface.


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## Susquatch (May 31, 2022)

Rauce said:


> Mississauga, DiPaolo Machine Tools.



Lathe Way Grinding - DiPaolo Machine Tools 

This needs to be documented by someone who can actually find it down the road. @YYCHM???

I assume you sent them your bed stripped.


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## Rauce (May 31, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Lathe Way Grinding - DiPaolo Machine Tools
> 
> This needs to be documented by someone who can actually find it down the road. @YYCHM???
> 
> I assume you sent them your bed stripped.


The bed is going on its own but they told me I could have actually brought it on the base if I wanted. Their machine is big (2m x 3m x 12m work envelope)


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## YotaBota (May 31, 2022)

Mcgyver said:


> If I was going to, I think POR-15 is the stuff to use


IIRC POR-15 is a "rust converter" and does nothing to protect bar metal. I'm working on a rusty truck frame and from the reviews of POR-15 and like products they need rust work properly and just peel off bare or painted metal.
@Rauce - base looks good, the pan repair doesn't show.


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## Susquatch (May 31, 2022)

Rauce said:


> The bed is going on its own but they told me I could have actually brought it on the base if I wanted. Their machine is big (2m x 3m x 12m work envelope)



Good news is that whatever they take off will move the head, saddle, steadrest, and tailstock equally.


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## Rauce (May 31, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Good news is that whatever they take off will move the head, saddle, steadrest, and tailstock equally.


Yes on this machine the head and tailstock sit on the same surfaces which works out great since those have the least wear and can get a minimal clean up pass.

The change in height will need to be accounted for at the connection between the carriage and apron and where the back gears (mounted inside the bed) engage on the spindle. The back gears were shimmed at the factory so that's easy enough to just surface grind the shims to suit (they're around .125 or so thick right now). The carriage to apron is a little trickier and I'm waiting to see how much they take off to decide how to approach that one.

I got a little tour of the place, very cool facility. They do a lot of big machine rebuilds and cnc retrofits. I saw a big horizontal boring mill rebuild in progress and a big vertical turret lathe rebuild in progress. The VTL had a 200" chuck.

One of the other employees asked the manager half joking why they were taking on my piddly little job and he replied that "it was for the love of the trade" haha!


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## Susquatch (May 31, 2022)

Rauce said:


> Yes on this machine the head and tailstock sit on the same surfaces which works out great since those have the least wear and can get a minimal clean up pass.



All good stuff @Rauce . Glad they took on your job for you. Nice that there are big shops that care about the trade!

But I don't understand your comment above. Don't they have to grind everything down to whatever the most wear is so it's all perfectly flat and even?

If so, that actually means taking the most off at the head and tailstock where it won't be worn at all.

In my view, this is no big deal because both ends get lowered by the same amount when they are grinded.

Now, if they are building up your ways before grinding, then that's a whole nuther matter!


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## Rauce (May 31, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> But I don't understand your comment above. Don't they have to grind everything down to whatever the most wear is so it's all perfectly flat and even?


I see what you’re getting at, I didn’t explain what I meant all that well…

Each surface that gets ground gets ground to lowest point along the whole length. On this machine the carriage rides on a set of double V ways that are only used for the carriage. Those have almost all of the wear. The surfaces the the headstock and tailstock are on have very little wear and so they don’t have to have as much taken off. Since the two are seperate pairs of surfaces the amounts taken off don’t have to match, they just need to be parallel etc. 

Here are photos of the exposed length of the bed. The carriage sits on the Vs and the headstock and tailstock on the flats and inside angles.


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## Susquatch (Jun 1, 2022)

Rauce said:


> I see what you’re getting at, I didn’t explain what I meant all that well…
> 
> Each surface that gets ground gets ground to lowest point along the whole length. On this machine the carriage rides on a set of double V ways that are only used for the carriage. Those have almost all of the wear. The surfaces the the headstock and tailstock are on have very little wear and so they don’t have to have as much taken off. Since the two are seperate pairs of surfaces the amounts taken off don’t have to match, they just need to be parallel etc.
> 
> ...



Gotcha. That makes sense as you explain. And yes, as long as they are parallel, and as long as the head and tailstock are on the same ways, that will be just fine. 

Can't wait to see the final results!


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## PeterT (Jun 1, 2022)

YotaBota said:


> IIRC POR-15 is a "rust converter" and does nothing to protect bar metal. I'm working on a rusty truck frame and from the reviews of POR-15 and like products they need rust work properly and just peel off bare or painted metal.



Not wanting to detract from post, but interested in where you got this info? I looked at this system a long time ago, but not in much detail. They use a lot of words likes 'stops rust' or 'prevents rust from spreading' which once could say about many coating systems. But I haven't come across anything that says it requires metal oxide to work. Maybe we should start a painting post - or maybe one already exists in which case I will move this


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## Rauce (Jun 1, 2022)

PeterT said:


> Not wanting to detract from post, but interested in where you got this info? I looked at this system a long time ago, but not in much detail. They use a lot of words likes 'stops rust' or 'prevents rust from spreading' which once could say about many coating systems. But I haven't come across anything that says it requires metal oxide to work. Maybe we should start a painting post - or maybe one already exists in which case I will move this


POR15 is the brand, the rust converter “rust preventative coating” product that they sell is I think what they are best known for but they have a whole range of products including paint systems, primers, fillers etc.


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## Rauce (Oct 29, 2022)

I figured I would post an update for anyone wondering, though it's not much of an update.

The base and chip pan are painted and the motor and intermediate pulley shaft are installed in the base. I've wrapped it up in skid wrap with a bunch of silica gel packs and VCI paper inside with a tarp over top. Should keep it in good shape for now. 

The bed is still at the grinders. Right now they are saying February. They seem to be busy and it's a small time project for them so not much I can do when there's no other options in the province. 

I've also been busy so I haven't done a whole lot on the remaining pieces, though I should have the repainted headstock back together soon.


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