# Looking at a lathe.



## Murdoch (May 1, 2018)

So I found this for $600.00 , everything you see is included. Any thoughts guys, I want to get it...


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## kevin.decelles (May 1, 2018)

I'd buy it just to look at it, but I like old machinery 

I wouldn't buy it as my primary machine with dreams of turning out precision parts day one though, older machines take time to setup and true-in and this can require new parts, scraping etc

At 600 bucks, as i said, that would be on my workbench being admired

Do it!




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## Murdoch (May 1, 2018)

Well my intent is to use it. That being said, I have no experience in this area. We have the big 12' grinding and polishing lathes at work here, but I haven't defected from electroplating yet lol.
I'm told that it runs well and can get a demo before the purchase. It also comes with a bunch of tooling and a 3, 4 jaw Chuck. The seller is up in years and finds he is no longer able to use it.
He says it's an Atlas but doesn't know if it's a 618. 
I thought for a first lathe for a noob like myself that this was a good buy.
Is it too much trouble for a first lathe?


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## Bofobo (May 1, 2018)

Buy it! I would


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## Murdoch (May 1, 2018)

Hey Kevin, not trying to be a smart ass but I have to ask. 
Isn't having a lathe for the purpose of turning out precision parts.
I am building an exoskeletal armour and having a lathe would help me in a big way.


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## kevin.decelles (May 1, 2018)

Ill give some context -- it comes down to expectations

I spent 10 years making the gingery lathe, and learned a lot about casting, scraping, mild making etc, to realize that the lathe was 'lite' for my Intentions 

I then bought a vintage Von wyck circa 1903 ( 16 x 50) . Gorgeous to look at, but 115 years of wear have left its mark on it. Still very much salvageable but I need a better machine to produce some of the parts that need higher tolerances etc

So I recently bought a new 14x40 and am in lathe heaven. Best of all worlds!

The older latkes also come with limitations such as max spindle speed etc which will determine your tooling choices

I've since also bought a Sebastian lathe circus 1908 for the same reason I'd buy the one you're looking at -- because I love old equipment


There are those that would not buy it and advocate for saving money for the ultimate one time purchase, some would scoff at manual lathes in favour of cnc, some would say 'American only'

I say buy it! And plan where the next one will go 



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## Tom O (May 1, 2018)

It is like my Grandfathers it has all the atachments and change gears.


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## Murdoch (May 1, 2018)

Well crap I was hoping to liquidate some watches and the buyer backed out. 
I had to call my guy and back out as well. I now that this will haunt me. DAMIT!!!


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## Dabbler (May 1, 2018)

for 600 it is a steal.  at least you can learn a lot of good stuff on it.  If you do some little fixes, etc it will never be worth less than 600.


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## Janger (May 2, 2018)

Trade watches for lathe?


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## Alexander (May 2, 2018)

Vintage machines like this are not very good. The newer machines are much easier to use. Most of them are more powerful and more ridgid. That being said $600 might only get you a used 7x12 lathe. If your looking to get into metal turning you will want something bigger pretty quickly. Small 10x20 machines can be found for about $2000 and they are god for small parts.


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## Murdoch (May 2, 2018)

It would seem that somebof you feel that the older equipment is obsolete.
So for future reference, what would you recommend?
Now bare in mind I am only looking for a small metal hobby lathe. 
Approx 7×12


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## kylemp (May 2, 2018)

Don't go for the 7 x 12 unless you really don't have expectations of turning anything quickly or to any decent tolerance. I'd think a minimum 10x20 or 12x36 for a newer machine would be decent. They're still not massively powerful or sturdy but if your patient you can produce good results. In my experience the heavier the machine the better the accuracy and general power but there's a point where it's not reasonable for someone to own one at home. 
If I had to go in order of options I'd say quick change gearbox would be 1, gear head 2, camlock spindle 3. You'll get sick of change gears fast.


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## Bofobo (May 2, 2018)

7x12 is fine but you need to spend A LOT of time to set it right, mine was great had it for 3 years, if you look at one pm me ill help you out, i got a 13x24 now and after a month or so im still setting the gib's after increasingly heavy cuts seem to settle things out. i started out not wanting to save for 5 years to get started, by taking the risk and going for what i could afford first, It was worth the gamble, I got hooked! not everyone can afford things of the latest and greatest variety as some others seem to, if you can great! If not start small and build the skills in an inexpensive and size Conscious way, you can always sell and upgrade. In the mean time you develop skills that tranfer to all machines anyway .... and patients, lots of that


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## Alexander (May 3, 2018)

Kyle is on the right track. I bought a nice used 12x40 for about 2k$ and 3 years later when it was time to upgrade i sold it for 2k in about one day. It didn't  cost me a dime because the right machine will always be in demand. The vintage machines are cool but maching is hard enough with a good machine.


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## Murdoch (May 3, 2018)

These are really great points guys and I appreciate this. 
I guess that I need to be more specific. But first a question for you. 
If I buy a machine that I am happy with, now keep in mind when I buy I won't be buying for the right now. But I would expect to be buying for the right now and after. Then why would I need to upgrade?
Now the specifics: I am building an exoskeletal armour made of steel, aluminum and titanium. I am going to cast, form and machine for this. I live in a small apartment with limited space. I have found that now I have to get a storage locker for my tools lol. Welders, casting furnace, jewelry tools and metal.
So suggesting a 7×12 was just a guess bases off what I see from kijiji. I need something that is 110v, 4' overall length, a bench top to be on the mark. If at all I can upgrade later with a milling attachment that would be just great also. My apartment is just over 700sqr ft shared with my wife and daughter. Yep it's small.


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## Dabbler (May 3, 2018)

I see both sides of this.  As I said before, a 600 lathe that is still working won't be worth less than 600 if you keep it maintained.  The wisest notion is to buy as big  as you can afford,or even bigger,but you can't put a a 16" lathe in an apartment.  

 A recent experience: my wife and I were looking for a piano upgrade.  We looked at pianos over a wide range of prices, including quite expensive ones. Many of them were concert quality and very touchy.  Th last place we went, she was playing this very modestly priced offbrand piano that I had to extract her to go home.  Of course we bought it.  Moral?  buy the lathe that you will use.  This includes all your circumstances.

Consider renting a heated garage instead of a storage locker. There's a lot more flexibility and a lot of experience here in the forum on renting garages for machining, etc. (And you have room for a bigger lathe)


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## Murdoch (May 3, 2018)

Dabbler said:


> I see both sides of this.  As I said before, a 600 lathe that is still working won't be worth less than 600 if you keep it maintained.  The wisest notion is to buy as big  as you can afford,or even bigger,but you can't put a a 16" lathe in an apartment.
> 
> A recent experience: my wife and I were looking for a piano upgrade.  We looked at pianos over a wide range of prices, including quite expensive ones. Many of them were concert quality and very touchy.  Th last place we went, she was playing this very modestly priced offbrand piano that I had to extract her to go home.  Of course we bought it.  Moral?  buy the lathe that you will use.  This includes all your circumstances.
> 
> Consider renting a heated garage instead of a storage locker. There's a lot more flexibility and a lot of experience here in the forum on renting garages for machining, etc. (And you have room for a bigger lathe)


Renting a garage? What do I even look for?


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## Janger (May 3, 2018)

Is there a maker space in your area @Murdoch ? with a lathe? That might be a lot more affordable for now and you could get experience with the tools. Some practice and experience with the lathes will make you far more informed about what you actually need and want. They usually have some orientation or light training to get you going too...


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## Murdoch (May 3, 2018)

A storage locker is $150.00
Maker spaces in Toronto is double at least but I'm going to look into that option. Thanks Janger


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## Janger (May 3, 2018)

The Calgary Protospace organization is $55/month...


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## Murdoch (May 3, 2018)

Janger said:


> The Calgary Protospace organization is $55/month...


1st one I found is $350.
Still looking


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## Dabbler (May 3, 2018)

I rent a single garage (no heat) for 100 per month.   Some of the guys here have rented a double with heat.  |Most storage places have restricted access and no available power, and other restrictions.  You might get a private garage for less than double the price with power included,


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## PeterT (May 3, 2018)

I think many of us have been in your position (money, space....mostly lack thereof LOL). The other thing for you to be aware of is tooling. The lathe purchase is one chunk, but your intended work will dictate some other necessary hardware. These purchases can be spread out over time but still add up. And to a certain degree, this can be lathe specific. Spend some 'catalog time' spot checking how much chucks cost (3-jaw, 4-jaw, collet) & vs. maybe comes packaged with the lathe. They can be anywhere from a couple hundred bucks to much more. The lathe you are looking at may be a screw on spindle or specific back plate adapter. Nothing wrong with that, but you may or may not be able to utilize that stuff if you upgrade one day.

Next is toolpost & cutting tools. Again, nothing wrong with old school lantern or tool blocks, but some old school HSS shanks are actually hard to get and/or more money (like the lathe in your picture). You will be grinding bits (need a grinder) & just  bit more fiddly to set up. The reality is there is SO much Asian insert tooling out there now at very reasonable prices, its actually more cost effective IMO. Again, do some internet research to see what guys are running on a specific machine of interest. The tailpost comes into play with whatever MT taper & therefore arbor/chuck size, but not a biggy.

If medium/small/lightweight lathe is just what you have to do, then so be it. back in the 60's & 70's when Myfords were all the rage in England & maybe similar sized Emco's in Germanic countries, hobbyists made incredible works of art because they were resourceful & found a way. The problem is, that era is gone. Even the guys that own the machines have given up on parts because donor machines are clapped out & replacement parts are unobtanium to expensive. The 'new norm' is Asian machines. Unfortunately the quality varies so you have to evaluate carefully. Look carefully into threading & speed changing capability. This is #1 & #2 source of buyers regret, but it all depends on what kind of work. If you haven't visited Stefans YouTube channel already do so. he has done some upgrades over the years but has also done some nice work in stock mode on a lathe this size. http://gtwr.de/shop/pro_mykrodreh/index.html

I would also venture an opinion that milling attachments (on lathes) are do-able but are a PITA, moreso on small lathes. You are better off getting a tabletop mini mill. (I know, more money). If you're patient, used deals come along. Someone has likely bought the exact same package you are considering but when the dust settles, probably selling for 60 cents on the dollar if it hasn't been abused. The more that comes packaged, the less you have to spend. Also be aware of 'apartment machining'. A buddy of mine experienced some (essentially eviction) issues with the vibration transmitting through the floors & lights dimming on start & background humming noise etc.

Hope this helps


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## Murdoch (May 3, 2018)

Well Peter that was a mouthful. 
I appreciate your help with this. I live in an apartment with a garage underneath. Yes I've already inquired about the garage. I was told that it was a fire hazard. Yes molten lathe metal lol. 
But seriously though I will take in all this valued information that everyone has given me and will apply it to my impending purchase. I will take a look at the YouTube video's also. 
Thanks guys...


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## Johnwa (May 3, 2018)

That looks like a 10” atlas.  It’s way bigger than the 618. http://www.lathes.co.uk/atlas/
As long as the spindle bearings aren’t worn out, old lathes like that can work to 0.001”.  Bed wear isn’t a problem unless you’re turning something long and slender.  

I have a 9” Southbend which I assume is quite similar.  I picked up a 10x20 once as a possible replacement.  It was like a wet noodle compared to the Southbend.

That lathe would lgo upwards of $1000 here in Calgary, mainly because there aren’t that many hobby sized lathes around here. Your profile indicates you’re from Toronto so price and availability is likely different.


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## Johnwa (May 3, 2018)

Here’s a page on why even a worn out lathe is still useful.  There’s also a link to a page on what you should look at when looking at an old lathe.

http://www.mermac.com/klunker2.html


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## Murdoch (May 4, 2018)

Any thoughts on Craftex mini lathes, seller says he moved to a condo and has no space.


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## Janger (May 4, 2018)

Murdoch said:


> Any thoughts on Craftex mini lathes, seller says he moved to a condo and has no space. View attachment 3120


@Jwest7788 Josh has one. Decent I would say. Good price! 

Limitations are gear swaps required for threading and the power feed is on the x only. I think that would work for you and you could certainly sell it again for that price.


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## Bofobo (May 4, 2018)

I dont mind gear swaps myself, i looked very seriously at this lathe here in calgary at busy bee, it was the runner up, i went bigger only because i got tax money back at the right time. Its a good size but i cannot remember if an alternative motor could be fitted later for more power, its a thing you may want to look at.


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## Murdoch (May 4, 2018)

I was the runner up and he just sold it...


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## Dabbler (May 4, 2018)

In your area there will always be another show up - be patient, and the right one will  turn up!!


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## Jwest7788 (May 4, 2018)

@Janger is spot on. One axis feeds only, and swapping gears sucks.

Yeah, that is my exact lathe, little newer it look though. I'm super happy with mine, but it has it's limitations.


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## Tom Kitta (May 10, 2018)

On one hand when I was in Toronto getting machinery was not an issue. On the other hand getting a place to put it was.

For the old lathe $600 would be super cheap in Calgary and it would be gone within days. This is within the price range of a slightly used 7x12 mini lathe. Also look at all the extra tooling you are getting. Yes its not a "super" lathe etc. etc. and you will out grow it if you do more work etc. etc. BUT for $600??? Also once you out grow it if you happen to paint it in the mean time you probably would have no issues selling it back for $600 without any tools... or bring it to Alberta and off load it for $1000. 

Regarding the Craftex the price of $600 is also very good. Capabilities wise its a step up from mini-lathe of the 7x12 / 7x14 range. Unless badly worn or abused you should be easily able to sell it back for $600. Heck, in Alberta probably over $1000. I had its bigger brother and it had low capabilities. I would personally look for a general purpose lathe as Alex suggested in 12x30 range something a bit more "heavy duty" than Craftex - maybe even 14x40 range.

But that all depends on what you want to do - for just starting out and playing the old one or newer Craftex for just $600 look perfect!


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## Tom Kitta (May 10, 2018)

Johnwa said:


> Here’s a page on why even a worn out lathe is still useful.  There’s also a link to a page on what you should look at when looking at an old lathe.
> 
> http://www.mermac.com/klunker2.html



I re-read that link each time I "enjoy" using my large old and worn (beaten to be more exact) lathe.


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## Murdoch (May 22, 2018)

I found this today on kijiji $400.00 No motor. Any thoughts...


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## Tom Kitta (May 22, 2018)

Hmm, here is a video about it: 




Its an old lathe similar in capabilities to say mini lathe from China - aka 7x12. 

If all you need is *mini lathe* and the one above is in *excellent* condition $400 is not bad. I bet through unless you only do model work you quickly outgrow a mini lathe and this is not in *excellent* condition. Thus, if its in say "good" condition I would ask for a motor or discount it at least $50 for a motor. 

You can get a mini lathe new at say princess auto for around $800 on sale. Its new. With motor.

Remember above lathe is very old. Its most likely a restoration project. You could "score" a motor for it for cheap but you need to look around. 

http://users.frii.com/katana/618.html 

I probably would stay away from 1930s as I have a feeling you are not looking for restoration project. 

As usual intended use is they key.


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## Dabbler (May 22, 2018)

soooo  if your budget limits you to a 400 dollar lathe, then it is a good start.  in the used market you can get a much more permanent lathe in the 1000$ range.  Remember to account for several hundred dollars for tooling to start no matte what lathe you buy.


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## Murdoch (May 22, 2018)

$400. Is not my budget, just my Scottish nature to look at a bargain lol.


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## Dabbler (May 23, 2018)

The best bargain is a machine that will do most all you want to - without selling and buying anther one;  I bought a 12X 36 as my first lathe, and after 38 years, am finally considering upgrading it.  The size and its capabilities are fine.  I really want to upgrade to modern features.  These are preferences and time savers only. ALINCOCHRANE has an identical machine to mine and he is fine with it, and has had it over 30 years.

FWIW the original lathe was 2000$ new and i initially put over 250$ in tooling and nearly 2000$ in tooling since then..*7--  I still want to add one more chuck to it for about $700... it never ends!


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## Bofobo (May 23, 2018)

I was quite happy with my 7x12 and would only have upgraded the motor if it was as convenient to do as this model would be. I see tools laid out presumably included,? Id have jumped on it, given the choice between my new 7x12 or this one for much less than half price. But by jump on it i mean to rush out and quickly inspect. Looking for; stiff movements, "clicky" bearings, and lubrication.


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## Murdoch (May 24, 2018)

That was a great vjdeo



I found this not far from me. $450.00. If all checks out, I'll be getting it. I understand that most of you say get the bigger machine. I totally get that and understand the concept of out growing a tool. But given the space available to me right now, this is the right fit I hope lol. If my living situation changes then an upgrade can be made at that time. I'll keep you posted...


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## Janger (May 24, 2018)

It’s the first lathe. Not the last! One guy on the forum has 12 lathes at last count I think. I’m sure you will enjoy it. On you tube watch toms machining and tubalcain videos to get started.


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## Dabbler (May 24, 2018)

Once you do a lot of work on it, you will know if t is all you need, or f you need more.  It looks like a bargain, and worth it.


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## Tom O (May 24, 2018)

looks like a nice find!


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## Murdoch (May 24, 2018)

Yeah you know I messaged this guy 3 times and have yet to hear anything.


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## Bofobo (May 24, 2018)

I see it is like new, the shipping grease is still all over it. Umm The center is worn flat! So perhaps not!?look into the wear on the gears, and drive belt (remove side panel to see). should have a steady with it as well. And i see (washers?) to support the tool post? Beat him down in price a bit but do it while holding $350 cash in hand


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## Murdoch (May 24, 2018)

Bofobo said:


> I see it is like new, the shipping grease is still all over it. Umm The center is worn flat! So perhaps not!?look into the wear on the gears, and drive belt (remove side panel to see). should have a steady with it as well. And i see (washers?) to support the tool post? Beat him down in price a bit but do it while holding $350 cash in hand


That's a great eye you got there. Thanks for this


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## Murdoch (May 28, 2018)

I found this just now for $1700. Too rich for my blood. 
I tried to look up the retail price of this to confirm the sellers price, funny thing I can't find one.
A nice looking machine,  just out of my range. DAMIT


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## Tom Kitta (May 28, 2018)

Given that this machine is around $100 CAD more than new (including shipping) http://www.grizzly.com/products/8-x-16-Variable-Speed-Lathe/G0768 I think its a pass unless maybe it comes with a lot of tooling. Mind you these things do go on sale on Grizzly site.

If without too much extra tooling in like new condition I think $1200 would be a good price on an ad for it. Its few hundred $ less than new price.

Besides this is in Ontario - I sold my like new lathe for few hundred less than new with some tooling in Alberta. In Ontario used prices are far more suppressed for machinery.

Yeah, seller should be happy with $1200 in Ontario -> this should be starting price on the ad from which people could give lower offers. Otherwise he / she can keep it or wait for someone that doesn't know their stuff.

If you like it and $1000 is in your budget you can offer that.... unless extra tooling is amazing that is a fair price.


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## Bofobo (May 28, 2018)

I looked thru kijiji and found this ad, he has a whole set for the QCTP including knurler, machine looks clean, has all the steadys with virtually no wear apparent, my 7x12 did not come with a 4 jaw or follow rest or a pair of centers to center the tailstock, if it is dialed in as claimed and really ready to go you save a lot of monkey time. Price is high though, his view is like new, better than out of the box, super pricey tool holders added (i counted 8 including boaring bar, knurler and parting) he priced high to get beaten down to fair, not fair to get beaten down to total loss. ask questions like what he used it for, why selling, ask about other tooling, ask about a lower price, bacically try to figure the guy for a know nothing or knowledgable individual, the later is the seller you want to buy from. 1200 i think is good but i just sold my 7x12 to someone whos son has the same machine and wanted the same, (mine set up diffrently) here in calgary for list price, accesories included. Whats a QCTP of this calaber worth? $1000 on its own all tallied? You stand a better chance talking him down in price (situation, budget, small talk) than low balling his price off the hop.


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## Tom Kitta (May 28, 2018)

Well, the lathe comes in in a box with extra chuck, face plate etc. So its not extra tooling.

QCTP unless its Aloris or similar with AXA size and 8 holders is max $200 - that is new price.

I sold my lathe 2 years old like new with QCTP and some tooling with 10 tool holders for $400 under sticker price in Calgary. Maybe I should have waited for someone to pay more.

That $400 for above lathe works out to be $1200. 

I sold my mini-mill for sticker price but the price at Busy Bee was already $150 more than what I paid for it and I included extra tooling as well.


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