# Grinder for sharpening metalworking and woodworking tools- low speed or normal speed?



## StevSmar (Feb 5, 2022)

Along with my clamp and ruler fetish, I appear to be developing a grinder fetish… I mean I have two 6” grinders already…

Anyway, I’m looking for an 8” grinder that has dust collection ports and which I’ll also to set up nice grinding rest on (I’ve purchased the eccentric engineering one). 

If it’s feasible, I’ll likely use it for sharpening both metalworking tools and for regrinding the primary bevel on woodworking tools. (Regularly dipping woodworking tools in water to cool them down doesn’t seem like a big hassle for me).
I’d probably set it up with an Aluminum Oxide wheel for HSS tool bits and a Silicon Cabride wheel for Tungsten Carbide tool bits.

If you were making a similar purchase, would you look at a low speed grinder, or stick with regular speed?

Thanks in advance for your advice.


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## whydontu (Feb 5, 2022)

I have a 6” cheapo bench grinder, 8” slow wet grinder Grizzly T10097 as well as a 1x30 belt sander. 6” for rough stuff. 8” slow for fine stuff and kitchen knives where I want to be able to slice paper, belt sander for metal lathe tools. You can never have enough power tools.

If I only had room for one, the wet grinder would be my choice.

(last week there was a 24” old-style treadle sharpening rig on Craigslist in Vancouver. $200. The type you’d see 50 years ago, going door to door sharpening knives. Unfortunately, no room in my shop or I would have bought it.)


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## Degen (Feb 5, 2022)

There are a lots of ways to go.  The primary reason you need cooling is being too aggressive in cutting no matter what you do. The latest trend is low speed grinders.

I have just upgraded to a Deckel clone. RPM is high well over 3000 but the big thing is amount of cut, only a 0.001" or 2 at a time so heating is minimal.

I have a 6" grinder I rarely use any more, be cause I built a 2x72 belt grinder.  Its faster and transfers less heat with aggressive cuts.

Knowing what I know now (and had I had this wisdom 40 years ago) my first purchase (or build) would be a 2x72 belt grinder (dyi built during Covid for a product line) for all purpose (and wood tool) grinding. Second would be a Deckel clone for metal working bits and drill bits.

Skip the Drill Doctor (yes I have 2 model 750's, which I will be selling, since I now have the Deckel clone) they do work extremely well but have limitations that can cause serious frustrations when you hit them.  Yes I've used them for years, but have exceeded their limitations, unfortunately this is where I need the now.  If you have the budget upgrade to the Deckel but it is not for the thin walleted as an all in investment is around $2K if you get a good deal.

If you only need it for drill bits a
https://www.kbctools.ca/itemdetail/1-805-825 and a belt grinder (or 6 or 8" grinder), no split points (the 750 does that really well), the Deckel doesn't, but it does do 4 facet grinds flawlessly.  If you need a split point a sharp wheel and good hands/eye and you can free hand it (old school).

Wet wheel while nice (and relatively cost effective) I would pick a belt grinder first.

Carbide tooling, diamond only is my recommendation.

BTW while you can get the Deckel clone from a few sources in Canada, get it from SHARS in the USA (they don't ship Canada with this product thats your solution), is it is one of the few that has a 5C collet, most use a U2 system (good luck in getting those) or an R8 which is better (Accusize), still limits application because of collets.


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## LenVW (Feb 5, 2022)

I did get good at sharpening machine tools on a belt sander
. . . back in the 1980s !!
The backing plate served as a good flat reference. So I thought I would get a ‘desktop belt sander‘ for my growing home shop.
I will have to let you know, after I get it in 3 weeks.
It is coming from HongKong.


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## PeterT (Feb 5, 2022)

Degen said:


> BTW while you can get the Deckel clone from a few sources in Canada, get it from SHARS in the USA (they don't ship Canada with this product thats your solution), is it is one of the few that has a 5C collet, most use a U2 system (good luck in getting those) or an R8 which is better (Accusize), still limits application because of collets.



Coincidental that you mention this. I was just about to send Shars an email to see if/how much the 5C block assembly would cost. The idea being to swap it for the R8 assuming it fits. Over the phone they weren't opposed to it, but I wont know for sure until I post the PN details. Now whether it fits & whether the cost warrants is another consideration. I have full set of 5C collets but, limited R8. Didn't really bother me too much at the time (due to the Shars shipping). But when I eventually get my butt in gear & start using it, might be something to ponder. I wish they just made collet type a selectable item when you order, but maybe there are other considerations. OTOH it might be a matter of replicating the collet holder barrel but I haven't dug into that aspect yet.

I'd like to see some of the things you've done on your TCG.





__





						Universal End Mill Cutter Drill Bit Grinder Sharpener
					

Shars Tool




					www.shars.com


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## Degen (Feb 5, 2022)

@PeterT you want me to post some pics of the belt grinder?


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## Susquatch (Feb 5, 2022)

whydontu said:


> The type you’d see 50 years ago, going door to door sharpening knives.



The SHEENIE man! 

And don't forget the snake oil man!


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## PeterT (Feb 5, 2022)

Degen said:


> @PeterT you want me to post some pics of the belt grinder?



I'm more interested in the Deckel clone = TCG = Tool Cutter Grinder


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## deleted_user (Feb 5, 2022)

StevSmar said:


> Along with my clamp and ruler fetish, I appear to be developing a grinder fetish… I mean I have two 6” grinders already…
> 
> Anyway, I’m looking for an 8” grinder that has dust collection ports and which I’ll also to set up nice grinding rest on (I’ve purchased the eccentric engineering one).
> 
> ...


I use two 6" CBN wheels I use exclusively for woodworking tools. And bunch of different grinder options for metal grinding.. and a tool and cutter grinder. Yet I feel compelled to make a 2x72 belt grinder as well. 

So what I think I am saying is that options are nice to have


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## Degen (Feb 5, 2022)

Sorry misunderstood.  Currently have started getting used to how it is grinding and the motion is.  The biggest thing I have done is relief cut a 10mm carbide endmill to allow deeper boring, specialized application as the unground shank would drag and create issues.  Couple of 0.001 was all that was needed.  Second was a standard drill grind, good works well.  Then did a few 4 facet bits 1/2" and 3/16" was really impressed with the cutting action. Here I use 7 and 20 for the angles.

As to sharpening endmills, working on that....there seems to be two schools of thought here, cut outside in or inside out.  For 2 flutes it dies matter, for more I feel that outside in is the only method (don't accidentally drag a edge into the stone).

Still have to make an arbor take off tool.

Considering I've only had it for about a month and have a lot of other project on the go, it becomes a learn and use as needed.  Its definitely a worth while investment for any shop, but it does have a longer ROI.

Any advice or skills you might add.


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## PeterT (Feb 5, 2022)

Degen said:


> Any advice or skills you might add.


In this particular regard I am a sheepish underachiever, you are already ahead by a distance! LOL. I bought it some time ago because I had plans/requirements to make specific cutters. But one by one I solved those issues in other ways, so it always took a back seat to other priorities. I need to locate it to a proper work area but even that is a rather lame excuse. I'm going to make a concerted effort to start working with it in the near future.


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## Degen (Feb 6, 2022)

PeterT said:


> In this particular regard I am a sheepish underachiever, you are already ahead by a distance! LOL. I bought it some time ago because I had plans/requirements to make specific cutters. But one by one I solved those issues in other ways, so it always took a back seat to other priorities. I need to locate it to a proper work area but even that is a rather lame excuse. I'm going to make a concerted effort to start working with it in the near future.


I think you and I are going to have to share some notes to progress faster


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## combustable herbage (Feb 6, 2022)

I came across this one on kijiji in Calgary looks like a nice setup.









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Visit Kijiji Classifieds to buy, sell, or trade almost anything! New and used items, cars, real estate, jobs, services, vacation rentals and more virtually anywhere.




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## StevSmar (Feb 6, 2022)

Thankyou @whydontu , @Degen , @LenVW , @PeterT , @TorontoBuilder and @combustable herbage for the suggestions!!

Thankyou too to @Susquatch for introducing me to the SHEENIE man.

Since I don’t have a vey large shop, to grind tools I’ll either have to go to the garage to do it, or have dust collection to try to minimize grinding dust getting on the lathe’s ways. That’s probably how I’m trying to justify getting yet another grinder (plus the others will then have permanently mounted wheels: scotchbrite, wire, general fine grinding, general coarse grinding)

That’s interesting the number of suggestions for a grinding belt, I‘ve heard they are great for sharpening tools. I could have four grinders then…
(Actually, I’m a bit wary of the belt grinder option because it seems like it might be tough to do adequate dust collection?).
I’ve been following a 2x72(?) grinder build on HobbyMachinist, it’s definitely intriguing though I don’t have the room for one of those.

I’d love to have a Quorn or D-bit grinder, but either of those are “future tools” for me once I’ve got more experience under my belt.


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## LenVW (Feb 6, 2022)

Steven,
Dust collection is just some properly shaped metal ducts and enough air flow to handle the volume of material. I was a Technical Sales Rep for a large dust collector company and it is not rocket science. 
Since we are working with metal particles you do have to be careful with sparks and hot dust. That is why I said metal ducts  in the introduction above. 
Alternatively, I have been using a ‘Cool & Collect’ version of clean-up for my milling and grinding.
If an operation generates ’hot’ cuttings, I simply use ducts or barriers to guide the material to a non-flammable steel container and leave them to cool before disposal. 
No chance of igniting a shop vac bag or hi volume filter.


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## Susquatch (Feb 6, 2022)

StevSmar said:


> Thankyou too to @Susquatch for introducing me to the SHEENIE man.



Don't forget the milk man, the bread man, the coal man, and..... The snake oil man!


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## deleted_user (Feb 6, 2022)

StevSmar said:


> Thankyou @whydontu , @Degen , @LenVW , @PeterT , @TorontoBuilder and @combustable herbage for the suggestions!!
> 
> Thankyou too to @Susquatch for introducing me to the SHEENIE man.
> 
> ...


For raw power and versatility you can't beat a good 2x72 belt grinder. Adequate dust collection would require high static pressure fan ergo a dust collector system.  A wide tapering air collection box will assure wide capture area and adequate velocity to the air movement. 

You want to design in a spark arrestor trap that catches the metal and abrasives, you empty the sludge every once in a while

A Quorn is on my list of tools I'd love to build... casting kits are available but costly. I am going to make my own one day,  I think using investment casting process. The fellow I bought my old barnes lathe from had a quorn he'd made, he was asking more for it than the lathe... I had to pass at the time. I regret that decision


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## deleted_user (Feb 6, 2022)

BTW, martin model has casting sets for the Mk1 for $445 USD available Feb 15th... and the Mk2 for $495 USD.

Tom Blough has great info and plans on his site and a build log that is worth a look

QUORN TOOL AND CUTTER GRINDER

Hemingway has the Mk3 kits for £700 and the plans alone for £61.25


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## Degen (Feb 6, 2022)

I missed buying a Journey Man  grinder for about $1500.00 they list currently for about US$8,000.00

Exceeds the Deckels (and the Quorn) by a long shot.

BTW thanks TB for bringing the Quorn to my attention, more info to process.


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## PeterT (Feb 6, 2022)

Wow, that is quite the machine. And price <gulp>





						Advanced End Mill Sharpener / Tool Grinder – Journeyman Tower - Cuttermasters
					






					cuttermasters.com


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## 140mower (Feb 6, 2022)

Degen said:


> I think you and I are going to have to share some notes to progress faster


I think I make three....
I have an old Alexander cutter grinder with the unobtainable 16mm? collets.


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## Susquatch (Feb 7, 2022)

140mower said:


> I think I make three....
> I have an old Alexander cutter grinder with the unobtainable 16mm? collets.
> View attachment 20772



Did you mean "take" or "make"? 

That grinder is beautiful!

So is that old wooden chest next to it!


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## Blouin55 (Feb 7, 2022)

whydontu said:


> I have a 6” cheapo bench grinder, 8” slow wet grinder Grizzly T10097 as well as a 1x30 belt sander. 6” for rough stuff. 8” slow for fine stuff and kitchen knives where I want to be able to slice paper, belt sander for metal lathe tools. You can never have enough power tools.
> 
> If I only had room for one, the wet grinder would be my choice.
> 
> (last week there was a 24” old-style treadle sharpening rig on Craigslist in Vancouver. $200. The type you’d see 50 years ago, going door to door sharpening knives. Unfortunately, no room in my shop or I would have bought what size of paper donu use for grinding your hss lathe tools on your belt grinder...i woukd like to try.


Do you go had free or with a jig?


whydontu said:


> I have a 6” cheapo bench grinder, 8” slow wet grinder Grizzly T10097 as well as a 1x30 belt sander. 6” for rough stuff. 8” slow for fine stuff and kitchen knives where I want to be able to slice paper, belt sander for metal lathe tools. You can never have enough power tools.
> 
> If I only had room for one, the wet grinder would be my choice.
> 
> (last week there was a 24” old-style treadle sharpening rig on Craigslist in Vancouver. $200. The type you’d see 50 years ago, going door to door sharpening knives. Unfortunately, no room in my shop or I would have bought it.)


What size of paper do you use for hss tool grinding on the belt grinder...
You do it free hand or with a jig?


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## LenVW (Feb 7, 2022)

Yeah, I don’t think I will be ‘investing‘ in one of those !!


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## 140mower (Feb 7, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Did you mean "take" or "make"?
> 
> That grinder is beautiful!
> 
> So is that old wooden chest next to it!


I think "make", as I have a lot of learning to do to be able to use it.... Trying to make a fixture for grinding lathe and shaper tools....
Yes, it's a nice old chest, still not sure what is going to live in it though.....


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## Blouin55 (Feb 7, 2022)

Blouin55 said:


> Do you go had free or with a jig?
> 
> What size of paper do you use for hss tool grinding on the belt grinder...
> You do it free hand or with a jig?


What grid


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## cuslog (Feb 7, 2022)

Makita makes a nice planer blade sharpener with Japanese water stone. Relative slow speed (~500 rpm), water reservoir over the stone dribbles water over it - can get "mirror" finishes and never burn anything. I've sharpened up to 15" planer blades on it. I actually have 2 of them, one with the water stone for conventional knives, chisels etc., the other has a diamond wheel mounted for carbide.


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## cuslog (Feb 7, 2022)

Makita 9820-2


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## whydontu (Feb 7, 2022)

Blouin55 said:


> Do you go had free or with a jig?
> 
> What size of paper do you use for hss tool grinding on the belt grinder...
> You do it free hand or with a jig?


free hand, messed up many tool bits until I got the hang of it.  I mostly use carbide inserts for lathe work, so most tool sharpening is done for drill bits, HSS parting tools, and HSS boring bits. I tend to go 80 or 120 grit belts, and if I need super-sharp I rough on the belt sander, finish on an oil stone, and diamond bonding stick.


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## Blouin55 (Feb 7, 2022)

Thanks


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## StevSmar (Feb 8, 2022)

LenVW said:


> Steven,
> Dust collection is just some properly shaped metal ducts and enough air flow to handle the volume of material…


Thanks for your suggestions @LenVW , my tentative plan is:
- dust collection for wood dust.
- exhaust for smoke from metalworking and objectionable other smells I make (personally and as a result of my actions…LOL) (I’m wondering if the dust collector can do this too?)
- metal shavings I’ll sweep up.
- shop vac for catching dust from using grinders. Yes there is a risk there, but I hope by the time any sparks travel along the 10’ shop vac hose that they are extinguished.


TorontoBuilder said:


> …You want to design in a spark arrestor trap that catches the metal and abrasives, you empty the sludge every once in a while…


That sound’s like a good suggestion. I think I should also consider getting a dedicated workshop fire extinguisher, our’s is a bit far away to be retrieved in an emergency.


TorontoBuilder said:


> … Quorn is on my list of tools I'd love to build...


I’m fascinated by the Quorns, I think because they have so many controls…


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## StevSmar (Feb 8, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Don't forget the milk man, the bread man, the coal man, and..... The snake oil man!


And the honey wagon… (is that the same as the snake oil man…?)


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## Susquatch (Feb 8, 2022)

StevSmar said:


> And the honey wagon… (is that the same as the snake oil man…?)



I don't think so. The honey wagon guy literally sold honey, maple syrup, and other farm goods like sugar salt etc. Most people bought that at the general store but the odd guy did deliveries.

The snake oil guy literally sold snake oil to idiots. He also sold ointments, salves, extracts, boiled mushrooms, hair grease and all the stuff you would get at a naturpath joint today. None of it worked worth a crap but your old spinster aunt loved it and had to have some to help with her bunions, arthritis, and pendulous boobs.

If you live in the country, I assume you know what a honey wagon means today..... Those guys pump out your septic tank


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## YYCHM (Feb 8, 2022)

Honey wagon is a common term for the septic tank drainage truck.


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## cuslog (Feb 8, 2022)

YYCHM said:


> Honey wagon is a common term for the septic tank drainage truck.


"Sewer sucker".


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## whydontu (Feb 8, 2022)

don’t forget the Fuller Brush man.

When I was much younger, I said my retirement goal was to become one of those insane elderly Englishman who whittles steam engines out of blocks of metal. I have achieved most of these goals, as I suspect many of you have as well.


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## deleted_user (Feb 8, 2022)

whydontu said:


> don’t forget the Fuller Brush man.
> 
> When I was much younger, I said my retirement goal was to become one of those insane elderly Englishman who whittles steam engines out of blocks of metal. I have achieved most of these goals, as I suspect many of you have as well.


I did that before I became an old man, because I didn't want to risk dying first


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## Dabbler (Feb 8, 2022)

whydontu said:


> don’t forget the Fuller Brush man.


My grandpa was a Milkman, witha team of horses, delivering milk daily to over 400 homes in Hamilton, Ontario


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## deleted_user (Feb 8, 2022)

Dabbler said:


> My grandpa was a Milkman, witha team of horses, delivering milk daily to over 400 homes in Hamilton, Ontario


When I first moved to Canada we had a milk man for the first few years. Borden's dairy was IIRC the last to deliver milk in Toronto's suburbs. 

Our neighbourhood built in the early 1960s was one of the suburbs to have homes featuring milk boxes... or as we viewed them "emergency entrances"

A noble profession.


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## Doggggboy (Feb 8, 2022)

Dabbler said:


> My grandpa was a Milkman, witha team of horses, delivering milk daily to over 400 homes in Hamilton, Ontario


I was a door to door milkman with CO-OP dairy in Regina and Indian Head for 17 years starting in 85.
17 of us with CO-OP and 7 with Palm when I started.
The year after I left in 2002 there was 1 left for the whole city.


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## Doggggboy (Feb 8, 2022)

TorontoBuilder said:


> When I first moved to Canada we had a milk man for the first few years. Borden's dairy was IIRC the last to deliver milk in Toronto's suburbs.
> 
> Our neighbourhood built in the early 1960s was one of the suburbs to have homes featuring milk boxes... or as we viewed them "emergency entrances"
> 
> A noble profession.


Noble may be a bit of an upsell


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## StevSmar (Feb 8, 2022)

It is interesting that the milkman was the last of the door to door deliveries (in Australia where I grew up). It never occurred to me that since we drove to the store for everything else I was seeing the end of an era…

(I seem to always think of Benny Hill when I think of milk delivery: “…Would you like it pasteurized because pasteurized is best. Earnie I’ll be happy if it comes up to my chest. And that tickled old Earnie…”)


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## 6.5 Fan (Feb 8, 2022)

Well i guess i was the milk man as well, walk to the barn and milk the damn cow. Jeeeeez i hated that job


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## deleted_user (Feb 8, 2022)

6.5 Fan said:


> Well i guess i was the milk man as well, walk to the barn and milk the damn cow. Jeeeeez i hated that job


man my dream is to own a cow, a few goats and sheep to be able to have raw milk to make cheese... toss in a few chickens for eggs and you're eating well no matter what


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## LenVW (Feb 8, 2022)

Dabbler said:


> My grandpa was a Milkman, witha team of horses, delivering milk daily to over 400 homes in Hamilton, Ontario


Last Fall we were hiking the escarpment trail near Mohawk Road in Hamilton.
The trail overlooks the 403 Highway and Dundas, Ontario.
There is a plaque there that tells of the Brantford to Hamilton ‘electric’ railroad that operated from 1905 to 1940.
Who knew ?


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## deleted_user (Feb 8, 2022)

LenVW said:


> Last Fall we were hiking the escarpment trail near Mohawk Road in Hamilton.
> The trail overlooks the 403 Highway and Dundas, Ontario.
> There is a plaque there that tells of the Brantford to Hamilton ‘electric’ railroad that operated from 1905 to 1940.
> Who knew ?


die hard rail enthusiasts like me. 

I used to be member of halton country radial RR and learned to drive the street cars...


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## cuslog (Feb 8, 2022)

Grand Parents on my Father's side owned "Wheat city Dairy" in Brandon, MB until it was bought out in the 1950's. My Parents moved to Regina 1957 or so, stayed in the Dairy business. Silverwoods Dairy. My parents "adopted" one of the old Milkmen from work, gave him a room in our basement. IIRC, he was the last in the City operating a horse drawn milk wagon. Took me out on his route one day, big blocks of ice in the wagon to keep the milk, cream etc. cold.


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## chip4charlie (Feb 9, 2022)

StevSmar said:


> Along with my clamp and ruler fetish, I appear to be developing a grinder fetish… I mean I have two 6” grinders already…
> 
> Anyway, I’m looking for an 8” grinder that has dust collection ports and which I’ll also to set up nice grinding rest on (I’ve purchased the eccentric engineering one).
> 
> ...


I just posted over at "Belt Sander - Which Belts To Get?" pictures of my Viel S5 1" x 42" belt sander modified with a PSI Industries VFD motor. I run a sharpening business. My mentor, Vadim of KniferGrinders.com.au in Australia (who just suddenly passed away at age 57), did a series of 10 YouTube videos on measuring and then controlling overheating from grinding. :






He used heat-triggering temperature lacquers for the measuring temperatures (Video 2 of 10)

Some interesting findings:

1) Lower grit belts heat up the edge less, because of the air space between the belt and the ground surface.
2) That's why the Work Sharp Ken Onion overheats with their 1,000 grit belt:  



3) Heat can be controlled using a honing coolant.
4) If heat is not controlled, Rockwell C hardness can easily drop by 5 units.

I'm currently modifying a Toycen Tradesman T8 grinder (which is how/why I got into light machining). The Tradesman has a VFD. So far, running at 600 rpm, I do not have to use any honing coolant.


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## Blouin55 (Feb 9, 2022)

chip4charlie said:


> I just posted over at "Belt Sander - Which Belts To Get?" pictures of my Viel S5 1" x 42" belt sander modified with a PSI Industries VFD motor. I run a sharpening business. My mentor, Vadim of KniferGrinders.com.au in Australia (who just suddenly passed away at age 57), did a series of 10 YouTube videos on measuring and then controlling overheating from grinding. :
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Very interesting, thanks for reply.


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## deleted_user (Feb 9, 2022)

whydontu said:


> free hand, messed up many tool bits until I got the hang of it.  I mostly use carbide inserts for lathe work, so most tool sharpening is done for drill bits, HSS parting tools, and HSS boring bits. I tend to go 80 or 120 grit belts, and if I need super-sharp I rough on the belt sander, finish on an oil stone, and diamond bonding stick.


@Blouin55 and anyone else interested in freehand grinding should look at Harold Hall's website.  Not only did Harold make some simple jigs for offhand grinding end mills he designed more complex tools you can built to make a 6" grinding wheel very useful

Sharpening an End Mill using an off hand grinder, Harold Hall

You know Harold, he wrote the workshop practice series book on tool and cutter sharpening


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## Brent H (Feb 9, 2022)

@StevSmar : how crazy do you want to get with your Dust collection?  I made mine using a 3HP busy bee and concept plans from the internet:





It was a great project and works extremely well.  I have the plans for the cyclone if you are interested.


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## PeterT (Feb 9, 2022)

chip4charlie said:


> 1) Lower grit belts heat up the edge less, because of the air space between the belt and the ground surface.
> 2) That's why the Work Sharp Ken Onion overheats with their 1,000 grit belt:
> 3) Heat can be controlled using a honing coolant.
> 4) If heat is not controlled, Rockwell C hardness can easily drop by 5 units.


@chip4charlie I see you have a soft spot for Tormek's LOL. Just curious since you appear to be heavy into this subject. With a Tormek, is there any reason to have a belt sander specifically for sharpening? Maybe I should qualify - for knife sharpening? I can see larger shears etc. would benefit from belt. After many hours of Tormek internet grazing, I've seen some nice work done restoring completely worn/bad/damaged blade geometry up to surgery sharp. From my understanding the slow sped & water cool is supposed to be a big part of it, but my point is it doesn't seem to take a back seat to basic angle forming (with the right wheel).
_3 - Tormek T7 Wet Sharpeners
1 - Tormek T8 Wet Sharpener_


BTW, was this the same fellow you mentioned who recently passed away?



			https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrs9DEOG9tHbxAH50CKINqA/videos


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## StevSmar (Feb 10, 2022)

Brent H said:


> …how crazy do you want to get with your Dust collection?  I made mine using a 3HP busy bee and concept plans from the internet..


That looks great!!! I’ve been thinking about it more seriously since I got complaints from my wife about using linseed oil for finishing wood…

I think I should look at two separate systems:
- dust collection for woodworking tools (just as noisy as woodworking tools….)
- a dedicated ventilation fan to remove smoke from cutting tools and stinky things… Likely just a good quality exhaust fan with ducts to above my workbench, lathe and future(?) mill.


Brent H said:


> It was a great project and works extremely well.  I have the plans for the cyclone if you are interested.


That’s great it works well.
My current top choice for dust collection is the Rikon:
Rikon 1 hp Wall-Mount Dust Collector (Model 60-101)
I don’t think I have room for a cyclone and I’m not using things like a planer or jointer so am not making huge amounts of chips.


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## LenVW (Feb 10, 2022)

Brent H said:


> @StevSmar : how crazy do you want to get with your Dust collection?  I made mine using a 3HP busy bee and concept plans from the internet:
> View attachment 20892
> 
> It was a great project and works extremely well.  I have the plans for the cyclone if you are interested.


Hey Brent,
Is that a garage door guide ?
I guess you can blow the snow off your car with the exhaust air !!


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## chip4charlie (Feb 10, 2022)

PeterT said:


> @chip4charlie I see you have a soft spot for Tormek's LOL. Just curious since you appear to be heavy into this subject. With a Tormek, is there any reason to have a belt sander specifically for sharpening? Maybe I should qualify - for knife sharpening? I can see larger shears etc. would benefit from belt. After many hours of Tormek internet grazing, I've seen some nice work done restoring completely worn/bad/damaged blade geometry up to surgery sharp. From my understanding the slow sped & water cool is supposed to be a big part of it, but my point is it doesn't seem to take a back seat to basic angle forming (with the right wheel).
> _3 - Tormek T7 Wet Sharpeners
> 1 - Tormek T8 Wet Sharpener_
> 
> ...


Not a soft spot, it's just that it's the best machine available, with a challenger only recently available (the Toycen Tradesman Edge sharpeners workstation).

However, a belt sander does a few things better than a Tormek:
1) straighten out a knife edge that has a dip ("swale") from overuse. The Viel S5 can be placed flat on a table and the knife edge then is placed on the (now horizontal) belt backing plate.
2)Re-bevelling the now-straightened edge. Official Tormek stones only go down to 220 grit - too slow for commercial sharpening. I usually use a 120 grit belt.
3) Grinding down the safety bolsters on German style knifes - Henckels, Wusthof, etc.
4) Garden pruners and loppers on the back of the S5, where there is no support for the belt
5) Garden shears and kitchen scissors with the Viel scissors jig. The Tormek scissors jig does NOT work well at all. (If you get a S5, get this and sharpen your spouse's scissors. This considerably increases the WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor) of the S5...)
6) Straight lawnmower blades - because of large material removal, can use 40 and 80 grit belts.

The Tormek is great, but for most things it's too slow. The grinding wheel rotates at 110 rpm. I've mechanically sped up three of my machines to run at 154 rpm. I have 80 and 160 grit CBN stones from KnifeGrinders in Australia (yes, that's the fellow who recently passed away). But, still too slow.

IMHO, the two leading sharpening authorities are:

1) Knives: Vadim from KnifeGrinders dot com dot au. He figured out how to sharpen a kitchen knife to sharper than a double edge razor blade (BESS = 50), then generously shared his methodology and protocols. I highly recommend his book, "Knife Deburring - Science Behind the Lasting Razor Edge". It's $9 to download the PDF from his website: http://knifegrinders.com.au/11Shop.htm

Or, you can order a printed copy from Amazon Canada for $25.37 (printed in Coburn, Ontario!) Vadim's research is now used by over 700 commercial sharpeners in 66 countries.

2) Jeff Toycen of Cuttermasters in Ottawa. For sharpening drill, end mill, and tool cutters Jeff's machines are unmatched. In the 1970's he landed a contract to sharpen 100,000 + bits for Boeing Canada. Not satisfied with what was then available, he designed his own machine and wheels. I'm now modifying a Tradesman T8 to work with Vadim's grinding software - essentially marrying the best with the best : )


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## Brent H (Feb 10, 2022)

@LenVW : yep that is a door, it has only opened about 20 times in its 15 year life.  It is “there” in case a big move is necessary- like when the fork truck parked my mill or when I had cabinets to big to go out the regular door.   You couldn’t fit a car in the shop - maybe the nose - LOL.   Insulated door and pressed shut by tools pushed up to it and then c-clamped to prevent anyone opening it.  It would be sweet if I could use the blower to clear the snow though - winter sucks….(pun intended) LOL


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## Brent H (Feb 10, 2022)

On the subject of sharpening- ugh- the stuff ….. two bench grinders, a wet wheel (tormac knock off), a 4” belt sander with side disk and a 1” belt sander, the Lee valley wet stone system, lots of hand stones of different grades and a No. 2 Cincinnati tool grinder/sharpener with a cylindrical grinding attachment, gear sharpening attachments etc and “should” set it up to do up to 16” planer knives.  

One bench grinder, belt sander and the Cincinnati in one shop area and the other belt sander, bench grinder and wet sharpening stuff in the wood working shop area. 

The objective is to get the Cincinnati set up and then do all my router bits, end mills, gear cutters, etc etc and then just have it set for doing lathe tools in general.  Once or twice a year do another big sharpening.


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## Mcgyver (Feb 11, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> The snake oil guy literally sold snake oil to idiots. He also sold ointments, salves, extracts, boiled mushrooms, hair grease and all the stuff you would get at a naturpath joint today.



That's not what they were really selling...its like Charles Revson's (founder of Revlon) famous line ,"In the factory, we make cosmetics. In the drugstore, we sell hope".  :"D


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## deleted_user (Feb 11, 2022)

Mcgyver said:


> That's not what they were really selling...its like Charles Revson's (founder of Revlon) famous line ,"In the factory, we make cosmetics. In the drugstore, we sell hope".  :"D



Hope aka botulism toxin

I deliberately picked a spouse who never wears cosmetics, because beauty is a state of mind, not a spackled and deadened face


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## Susquatch (Feb 11, 2022)

TorontoBuilder said:


> Hope aka botulism toxin
> 
> I deliberately picked a spouse who never wears cosmetics, because beauty is a state of mind, not a spackled and deadened face



I like a little makeup. Especially bright red lipstick and high heels. 

Sometimes my wife wears that too..... ........


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## StevSmar (Feb 14, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> I like a little makeup. Especially bright red lipstick and high heels.
> 
> Sometimes my wife wears that too..... ........


I think photographic proof is probably required now… not of your wife


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## YYCHM (Feb 14, 2022)

StevSmar said:


> I think photographic proof is probably required now… not of your wife



Be careful what you ask for, some things cannot be unseen


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## Susquatch (Feb 14, 2022)

StevSmar said:


> I think photographic proof is probably required now… not of your wife



You want pictures of my GF? That could get me in a whole lot of trouble....... 

Surely you knew I had a plan B response up my sleeve......


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## Mcgyver (Feb 14, 2022)

TorontoBuilder said:


> man my dream is to own a cow, a few goats and sheep to be able to have raw milk to make cheese... toss in a few chickens for eggs and you're eating well no matter what



I grew up on small farm.  My dream was to live near a store.


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## StevSmar (Feb 14, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Surely you knew I had a plan B response up my sleeve......


LOL, that definitely is an option based on the initial statement. Hope we don’t have to go to plan C…


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## Degen (Feb 14, 2022)

TorontoBuilder said:


> My uncle lived in the country... but had a store and gas station within walking distance.
> 
> Alternatively have a stockpile of things you'd want to visit the store for


Wine cellar, couple of whiskey, brand, rum barrels, and definitely some beer and couple of boxes of Cuban cigars.  All just for emergencies.


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## Degen (Feb 15, 2022)

TorontoBuilder said:


> just two boxes of cubans?


I don't smoke so one or two cigars a year keeps me happy.


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## Susquatch (Feb 15, 2022)

Degen said:


> I don't smoke so one or two cigars a year keeps me happy.



I don't smoke either so one or two Cubans would kill me!


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## Susquatch (Feb 15, 2022)

TorontoBuilder said:


> I don't smoke any more... but cigars used to be my one vice. I had to give them up because they would cause flare ups with my immune system



Are those flare-ups sort of like coughing too much? LOL!


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## LenVW (Feb 15, 2022)

Is this the “Tool Sharpening” discussion ?
        You guys can talk about anything - LOL !!

My Band Sander showed up from Hong Kong . . . 2 weeks early !!

This little unit sharpened a dozen drill bits in minutes. It really spins the belt.
SS frame, variable speed, spring loaded tightener and rubber feet to stop any wandering on the work surface.  It came with 10 belts as well.

I put a ‘pen‘ in the photo for size comparison.


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## deleted_user (Feb 15, 2022)

LenVW said:


> Is this the “Tool Sharpening” discussion ?
> You guys can talk about anything - LOL !!
> 
> My Band Sander showed up from Hong Kong . . . 2 weeks early !!
> ...



That's all you really need. You can make this even more functional with one of the many grinder rest designs out there. Mind if I ask where you got this? I can fit this puppy in my home shop and increase my productivity


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## TOBARApprentice (Feb 15, 2022)

I have the Toycen Journeyman from Cuttermasters.  It is incredible and worth every penny, although I picked it up very reasonably on Kijiji.  I also have a Tormek T2000 from years ago. It does a great job and will certainly accomplish a great deal of what you are trying to achieve.  That said, buy some beer and make the drive to Ancaster......  You can try the two out and see if either is worth making the investment.   Cheers. 

Derek


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## LenVW (Feb 15, 2022)

John,
This is the site I used to get the little band sander.
http://Banggood.com
It was $75 + tax.
$3.50 for shipping
I had mine within 2 weeks of ordering.


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## LenVW (Feb 15, 2022)

They seem to have other models now available.
This one is now shown for $85.00





































































Mini Electric Belt Sander Grinder DIY Metal Wood Polishing Grinding Machine Sanding Belt Sharpener 330MM - 20mm​Questions & Answers

ID: 1918500


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## PeterT (Feb 15, 2022)

TOBARApprentice said:


> I have the Toycen Journeyman from Cuttermasters.  It is incredible and worth every penny, although I picked it up very reasonably on Kijiji.  I also have a Tormek T2000 from years ago. It does a great job and will certainly accomplish a great deal of what you are trying to achieve.


Oooh. Nice tools. Coincidentally I was just gazing upon the Cuttermasters channel. Some very innovative machines. Out of my $ league 


			https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr0JIEITDK8tFis8tBmU3tQ


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## LenVW (Feb 15, 2022)

You can do a nice job with simple tools and a GOOD steady rest.


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## Canadium (Feb 16, 2022)

TorontoBuilder said:


> doesn't appear to be available right now...


This looks like the one.








						3 IN 1 Mini Electric Belt Sander Multi-functional Polishing Grinding Machine
					

Only US$58.99, buy best 3 in 1 mini electric belt sander multi-functional polishing grinding machine sale online store at wholesale price.




					www.banggood.com


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## Degen (Feb 16, 2022)

PeterT said:


> Oooh. Nice tools. Coincidentally I was just gazing upon the Cuttermasters channel. Some very innovative machines. Out of my $ league
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr0JIEITDK8tFis8tBmU3tQ


Consider a Deckel Clone https://www.shars.com/products/mach...l-end-mill-cutter-drill-bit-grinder-sharpener, lot less money.


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## Mcgyver (Feb 16, 2022)

TOBARApprentice said:


> I have the Toycen Journeyman from Cuttermasters.  It is incredible and worth every penny, although I picked it up very reasonably on Kijiji.  I also have a Tormek T2000 from years ago. It does a great job and will certainly accomplish a great deal of what you are trying to achieve.  That said, buy some beer and make the drive to Ancaster......  You can try the two out and see if either is worth making the investment.   Cheers.



thats a strong endorsement, glad its working well for you.

Cuttermasters, seems some sort of incarnation of Cuttermaster, no "s".  The Cuttermaster was available in two styles, with a column and without.  imo the column drastically improves its functionality.   It was made in the US was a good quality machine.  Looking at the CuttermasterS, I do not like the column, doesn't seem very substantial.  I also am shocked at the price, 9600?  Wow.  I assume its made in China as Accusize also sells it, but their web site claims made in Canada and US.

There is some weirdness around the name/brand.  Knowing the original machine was definitely "Cuttermaster" (manual page below), I kind of became the proverbial dog with a bone trying to figure it out.  Cuttermaster belonged to Conquest Industries Inc, Santa Fe.  The cuttermaster.com url sits unused and and Conquest Industries no longer lists them as a product.

Accusize's web site notes "Cuttermasters with an S is a multinational company. It has* offices and factories across Canada* and the U.S. Its products include Drill Sharpeners, End Mill Sharpeners, Annular Cutter Sharpeners, Neck Relief, Weldon Flat Grinding, Corner Radius, Carbide Cut Off, etc. *All the Cuttermasters products are made in Canada or made in the U.S.". * It looks like there is lone Canadian office and "factory" is a bungalow in Ottawa, 2353 Ridgecrest Pl. The US web site claims made there (US), seems surprising and I'm doubtful. Furthermore, Cuttermasters's US website gives the address 808 Proctor Ave, Ogdensburg, NY, which appears to be a freestanding building with NAS Logistics, a drop ship/forward as the occupant.

Toycen Industries of Ottawa claims to have designed the Cuttermaster Professional.  Jeff Toycen is listed as the President of Cuttermasters, and his web site says they are active in Business Analytics, Construction Planning, Energy Infrastructure, Global Markets, Startup Funding and Wealth Management.  The empire's HQ is 2353 Ridgecrest Pl, Ottawa.  A 411 search says there is a J Toycen living at 2353 Ridgecrest Pl.

It's possible they could still have NA manufacturing, but they try very hard to hide it.  They claim a amazing list of customers (Gucci, Rolls Royce, Amazon, Google, NASA and Pauls Tool and Die...scroll down here https://cuttermasters.com/about-us-2/?currency=CAD) and that they usually fix the machines for free:  https://cuttermasters.com/about-us-2/. The whole thing just seems way off.

Conquest (Cuttermaster) is still in business, has a 40,000 sq ft with 11 CNC machines (according to the website) but does not list tool grinders as a product.

Anyway,I ended up with a Chevlair bench top grinder, a clone of the real (orginal US) Cuttermaster with the column.  It's a substantial and well balanced machine.  It was 1500 used from a dealer 10 years ago and if you see one come up, I'd recommend it.  They do on kijiji and at auction occasionally.  Hienman in Miss, a good sized distributor sold a lot of them (according to the old boy Hienman himself when I asked him).

Chevelair are made in Tiawan and somewhere between ok and good imo.  That view is mostly from working on/with the floor model I reconditioned (ok), and I would say benchtop is better made (good).  The floor model, has received a ground reconditioning (scraping), really performs well now, but there were a few things about that make you shake your head.  If I hold my tongue just so, I can grind a cylinder to less than tenth error, as measured with an indicating mic

In the age of the insert,  its tough to be in the tool and cutter grinder business.  It looks like Cuttermaster is gone, and Chevalier has dropped the the T&CGs.  Sign of the times I guess.


*original Cuttermaster manual - note url, no "s"*






*Accusize's claim*






*current Cuttermasters*








*my little Chevalair FCG-610*







larger floor model chevalier...used a lot for cylindrical grinding - basically a knock off of a K O Less T&CG
















]


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## PeterT (Feb 16, 2022)

Degen said:


> Consider a Deckel Clone https://www.shars.com/products/mach...l-end-mill-cutter-drill-bit-grinder-sharpener, lot less money.



I mentioned in post #5 I have an Accusize R8 version of the Shars 5C. Yes, closer to my target needs. The only thing lacking is getting butt in gear. 
I was just YouTube surfing cutter-grinders in general & came upon Cuttermaster video channel.


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## DPittman (Feb 16, 2022)

Mcgyver said:


> thats a strong endorsement, glad its working well for you.
> 
> Cuttermasters, seems some sort of incarnation of Cuttermaster, no "s".  The Cuttermaster was available in two styles, with a column and without.  imo the column drastically improves its functionality.   It was made in the US was a good quality machine.  Looking at the CuttermasterS, I do not like the column, doesn't seem very substantial.  I also am shocked at the price, 9600?  Wow.  I assume its made in China as Accusize also sells it, but their web site claims made in Canada and US.
> 
> ...


Nice detective work and Intel.  Cool sharpening machines also.


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## Mcgyver (Feb 16, 2022)

Degen said:


> Consider a Deckel Clone https://www.shars.com/products/mach...l-end-mill-cutter-drill-bit-grinder-sharpener, lot less money.



Its not impossible to sharpen an end mill with one, but its night and day using an air bearing.  I suppose one could adapt an air bearing to it, the sizes/configuration wouldn't seem to promote it.  Just saying, if the goal is to sharpen endmills imo you'd want to pursue a solution with an air bearing


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## Mcgyver (Feb 16, 2022)

DPittman said:


> Nice detective work and Intel.  Cool sharpening machines also.


lol, yeah, I felt like a bit of an internet nut doing so but I was bored this morning


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## Degen (Feb 16, 2022)

Mcgyver said:


> Its not impossible to sharpen an end mill with one, but its night and day using an air bearing.  I suppose one could adapt an air bearing to it, the sizes/configuration wouldn't seem to promote it.  Just saying, if the goal is to sharpen endmills imo you'd want to pursue a solution with an air bearing


The Journeyman was my first choice,  missed getting a good used one, the rest of  used was in poor condition.  As to the air bearing yes it helps, but my unit is actually extremely smooth. The biggest difference is the range of motion and adjustment, the JM has more and lets you do more.  Given the cost difference of these two units these are easily overcome with a little ingenuity.


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## TOBARApprentice (Feb 18, 2022)

There is an old exact copy of the Toycen Journeyman on Kijiji right now. He’s asking $1500 for it, with the air bearing, radius attachment and a bunch of pieces.  Search in Winnipeg for End Mill Grinder FCG-30. Worth every penny and it will do SO much more.  Check out Cuttermasters on Youtube.


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## YYCHM (Feb 18, 2022)

Kijiji - Buy, Sell & Save with Canada's #1 Local Classifieds
					

Visit Kijiji Classifieds to buy, sell, or trade almost anything! New and used items, cars, real estate, jobs, services, vacation rentals and more virtually anywhere.




					www.kijiji.ca


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## StevSmar (Feb 18, 2022)

TOBARApprentice said:


> ….$1500 for it… Search in Winnipeg for End Mill Grinder FCG-30….


Wow, something interesting showing up in Winnipeg where I live. I need a mill first though…


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## TOBARApprentice (Feb 19, 2022)

StevSmar said:


> Wow, something interesting showing up in Winnipeg where I live. I need a mill first though…


I would guess that you’d be able to get this for between $1000 and $1300.  A ridiculous deal imo.  Look at the cost of end mills and then think of the money you’ll save being able to sharpen the north American made milling cutters that you can pick up for $2 each (dull).  And you’ll be able to sell it for every penny you spend on it……   I know that the air bearing OR the radius attachment cost more than $1200 each, not to mention the grinding wheels that appear to be with it…..   I use mine for everything inbthe shop, including drill bits and lathe cutters.  With a diamond wheel you can even sharpen carbide….   Like me, when I bought mine I wondered is it was worth the money…..  It’s one of those thing that you don’t realize that you need it until you have it….. and then you wonder how you managed without it. Good luck!!  

Cheers. 

Derek


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## 140mower (Feb 19, 2022)

StevSmar said:


> Wow, something interesting showing up in Winnipeg where I live. I need a mill first though…


Ahhh, but without a sharp end mill, do you really need a milling machine?
It's the age old chicken and egg thing. I mean really, which one did come first?


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## chip4charlie (Mar 2, 2022)

Mcgyver said:


> Cuttermasters, seems some sort of incarnation of Cuttermaster, no "s".  The Cuttermaster was available in two styles, with a column and without.  imo the column drastically improves its functionality.   It was made in the US was a good quality machine.  Looking at the CuttermasterS, I do not like the column, doesn't seem very substantial.  I also am shocked at the price, 9600?  Wow.  I assume its made in China as Accusize also sells it, but their web site claims made in Canada and US.



From https://cuttermasters.com/why-tradesman-dc/ :

_We needed a reversing variable speed motor for a new tool grinder.
Jeff was going to redesign the venerable old CUTTERMASTER The world had changed since 1972 and it needed some help. *In 2010 the Cuttermaster Professional was born using a Bodine Motor and control*.

We bought one of every motor we could find and arrived at DC being the only thing that would work because of its smooth quiet yet powerful variable speed characteristics.

The control: *We designed our own board*, but realized that we needed support and big shoulders if we got busy , we landed correctly on KB electronics KBw16 and KBws25  (KB became very expensive and had a high failure rate)

The Wheels:  This is a good story *we landed a contract to sharpen 100000 plus tools for Boeing Canada  in 2007* (this started the Toolgrinder design project, I bought 2 Darex M5 drill sharpeners and soon was wearing out super abrasive wheels, so *we designed our own in 2008* we now have 50 or so wheels that have been designed to be better than the ancient designs that were available._



Mcgyver said:


> There is some weirdness around the name/brand.  Knowing the original machine was definitely "Cuttermaster" (manual page below), I kind of became the proverbial dog with a bone trying to figure it out.  Cuttermaster belonged to Conquest Industries Inc, Santa Fe.  The cuttermaster.com url sits unused and and Conquest Industries no longer lists them as a product.



From https://cuttermasters.com/about-us-2/:

_January 2020, Cuttermasters acquired the Trademark CUTTERMASTER Professional. In June of 2020 Cuttermasters purchased all of the CUTTERMASTER inventory from its US rival._



Mcgyver said:


> Accusize's web site notes "Cuttermasters with an S is a multinational company. It has* offices and factories across Canada* and the U.S. Its products include Drill Sharpeners, End Mill Sharpeners, Annular Cutter Sharpeners, Neck Relief, Weldon Flat Grinding, Corner Radius, Carbide Cut Off, etc. *All the Cuttermasters products are made in Canada or made in the U.S.". * It looks like there is lone Canadian office and "factory" is a bungalow in Ottawa, 2353 Ridgecrest Pl. The US web site claims made there (US), seems surprising and I'm doubtful.


Why doubtful?


Mcgyver said:


> Furthermore, Cuttermasters's US website gives the address 808 Proctor Ave, Ogdensburg, NY, which appears to be a freestanding building with NAS Logistics, a drop ship/forward as the occupant.



From https://tradesmangrinder.com/about-us-2/https://tradesmangrinder.com/about-us-2/ : 

_The Toycen Group of companies has facilities in Ottawa (Engineering and Rapid Prototyping), Smiths Falls (Ontario-Distribution), and Ogdensburg, NY (Manufacturing and Distribution)._

and also

_Cuttermasters operates as a debt-free company. Cuttermasters has an engineering model shop and three warehouses in Canada, a US Office warehouse in New York, and the best warranty in the business; If it’s broken, we fix it. Machines are generally repaired for free as part of our research and life cycle test program.  We maintain a large finished-goods inventory.  Every prototype and product is designed by Jeff Toycen and then built by hand in our shop.   Over the last decade, the company has developed a world-class crew of talented young men who are now experienced machine tool builders._


Mcgyver said:


> Toycen Industries of Ottawa claims to have designed the Cuttermaster Professional.



Jeff Toycen has been granted three patents by the United States Patent and Trademark Office: https://patents.justia.com/inventor/jeff-toycen

So, yeah, I guess it's probably true.



Mcgyver said:


> Jeff Toycen is listed as the President of Cuttermasters, and his web site says they are active in Business Analytics, Construction Planning, Energy Infrastructure, Global Markets, Startup Funding and Wealth Management.



He also designed explosive handling robots: https://cuttermasters.com/digital-x-or-y-axis-indicator-kit-fit-on-all-cuttermaster-machines/



Mcgyver said:


> They claim a amazing list of customers (Gucci, Rolls Royce, Amazon, Google, NASA and Pauls Tool and Die...scroll down here https://cuttermasters.com/about-us-2/?currency=CAD) and that they usually fix the machines for free:  https://cuttermasters.com/about-us-2/. The whole thing just seems way off.



Why does it seem way off? I sincerely doubt someone that holds three registered U.S. patents would lie on his web site.  

As per my signature, I have a Toycen Tradesman T8 grinder. It is, IMHO, the finest 8" bench grinder on Earth. Jeff's favourite demo is balancing a Loonie on top of the machine, then turns it on at low speed. The Loonie doesn't fall over. He then turns the speed to maximum, and the Loonie still doesn't fall over: 




The grinder shaft concentricity is 2 tenths (.0002"), In comparison, my Rikon is 5 thou; my Princess Auto (now sold) was 30 thou. Something tells me the Toycen Tradesman shaft bearings are not from AliExpress.

Yes, it's bloody expensive. But it's one of those tools that you'll have to pry from my cold, dead hands.

We need more Canadian success stories, and Cuttermasters is one. Accusize is merely an authorized distributor of a fine Canadian-designed and Canadian-made product.


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## Mcgyver (Mar 3, 2022)

Glad to hear the positive account of the machine and that is working well for you.

Why doubtful?  Tell me where do you think its made - whats the plant address?  Not in Ottawa or NY according to what I found unless they are keeping it hidden.  I've been a commercial guy for a long time and while I tried to be clear I can't be certain anything is amiss, the presentation and info strikes me as odd.  If you don't see it, peace.



> I sincerely doubt someone that holds three registered U.S. patents would lie on his web site.



Not particular to this company (its not my intent to outright accuse, I have a view from hints not absolutes), but why do you say this?  It seems a non sequitur.  That a person holds US patents really doesn't provide any information on whether they lie or not.


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## Susquatch (Mar 3, 2022)

Mcgyver said:


> Not particular to this company (its not my intent to outright accuse, I have a view from hints not absolutes), but why do you say this? It seems a non sequitur. That a person holds US patents really doesn't provide any information on whether they lie or not.



I second this. I just didn't know how to say it without incriminating myself. 

I hold way more patents than 3. And I know lots of other people who hold lots of patents too. In my opinion, those who hold multiple patents are not any more likely to be honest people than any other cross-section of the rest of the population. I don't believe that holding a patent is a predictor of honesty. In fact, the one fellow I know who holds more patents than anyone else I know has to be the least honest person I have ever met in my whole life. 

Caveat - My view of the patent/honesty aspect of the comments posted here is not intended as a criticism or a support of any other aspect of the discussion/debate.


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## Degen (Mar 5, 2022)

You can look up the patent and it ownership and life left.  How do I know I acquired and pay the maintenance fees on several patents.  No they are not cheap to maintain.


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## Susquatch (Mar 5, 2022)

Degen said:


> You can look up the patent and it ownership and life left.  How do I know I acquired and pay the maintenance fees on several patents.  No they are not cheap to maintain.



I consider myself VERY LUCKY  that way. The legal department at my employer handled all that for me with the added benefit that nobody can look me up and/or hassle me. I just get nice royalty cheques ever so often.


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## Degen (Mar 5, 2022)

Unfortunately I am the company, so...........but I get all the profits.


----------

