# What kind of welding machines you guys have ? Anyone got a Miller multimatic 220?



## MW/MC (Mar 6, 2021)

Hey guys what kind of welding machines you guys got ?
Anyone have a multi process machine ?
I’m thinking of getting rid of my tig/stick and mig machines to get one multi process unit !
Thanks guys


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## Canadium (Mar 6, 2021)

Personally I have a couple of Lincoln machines. The 180 MIG and the tombstone stick. Not my preferred choices but what I happen to have landed at the moment. My theory about multi-process units is something like "jack of all trades master of none".


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## Brent H (Mar 6, 2021)

Everlast 211 MTS - works great at mig and stick.  Haven’t done the TIG part as much as I should.


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## David_R8 (Mar 6, 2021)

I have a Primeweld 225 and a Millermatic 130.


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## kevin.decelles (Mar 7, 2021)

Millermatic 211 MVP mug
Longevity WeldAll 250pi (tig stick plasma )
Lincoln tombstone 225ac stick

I use them all, but could survive with a single multiprocess

I view it like vehicles and tools ..... if I have the room and the money, why not


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Tom O (Mar 7, 2021)

Miller 351 with cooler and a Millermatic 135 with spot/stitching as well as the original scratch start 100A  dc tig I got from PA for body repair.
one day I’ll find a good 250A mig.


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## Lincoln (Mar 7, 2021)

Lincoln square wave 200


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## CalgaryPT (Mar 7, 2021)

Miller 252 MIG and Miller Syncrowave 200 TIG.


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## Dabbler (Mar 7, 2021)

I have a Millermatic 250 and a separate Miller EconoTig.


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## YYCHM (Mar 7, 2021)

I'm puzzling over all of these model numbers.  Do they basically represent input voltage?


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## CalgaryPT (Mar 7, 2021)

Often the output amps.


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## Dabbler (Mar 7, 2021)

The Millermatic 250 is a welder that was manufactured in the early 80s and will go to 300 amps max.  for 100% duty cycle, you have to limit it to 200 amps.  it is almost entirely non-automated.  the only electronics are for voltage control.  It is powered by a massive transformer.


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## Tom O (Mar 8, 2021)

On my Miller there are two styles but same machine the 350 is 3 phase and the 351 is 220


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## swunderlick (Mar 8, 2021)

I have nothing right now as I recently closed shop, but was using primarily a small Lincoln 140 with spool gun and an old Century for the bigger jobs.

Not just with welders, but in general I've always been against multi use machines.  Even if they do the job equally as well as the stand alone units, when one is down for repairs or service they all are and you are left with nothing.


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## Tom Kitta (Mar 8, 2021)

Everlast 200 DX and Lincoln invertec 350.


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## historicalarms (Mar 8, 2021)

Century 125 amp mig....useless

  Lincoln 235 amp AC/DC stick decent small job welder that will stick 2 pieces of steel together if you don't have rely on it for anything safety oriented 

    I was raised and taught welding using a 450 amp DC Hobart...anything after that is a "toy"...I sure do miss that machine sometimes.


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## Dabbler (Mar 8, 2021)

historicalarms said:


> anything after that is a "toy"



You and John Nielsen have much in common!


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## Tom Kitta (Mar 8, 2021)

I never welded above 300 amps - I need to find somewhere these 1/4 inch electrodes cheap to try it out. But I bet I blow breaker on my regular line so I need to setup special power station just for going over 300.


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## historicalarms (Mar 9, 2021)

That 450 amp Hobart ( It was bought from a WWll surplus auction) would lay 1/4" rod out in  a 1/2" wide bead all day, when burning big rod like that you need two five gallon pails of water beside you to drop the stinger into between rods, they get so hot you cant hold on to them. When welding new grouser bars onto the cat tracks. there were 3 men required and two separate cables from the welder. One guy on one side would weld a rod and dunk his stinger while the guy on the other side welded one pass...the third guy was to keep hauling gas to the welder, when welding big rod it run on the governor all day.
    It would take 3 full days to install new grousers on one cat, one "stick pass" on one side with 1/8 rod (7018) then a "filler [pass on both sides of the pad with 1/4" rod.
    The other thing about burning big rod was that every bit of skin facing the flash needed to be covered...."weld burn" can be more severe than any sunburn you can imagine.


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## Chicken lights (Mar 13, 2021)

Can anyone tell me if a Miller Maxstar 150 STL is worth fixing?
I don’t know what’s wrong with it. All I want is a 110v stick welder and I’m sure I could get this Miller cheap


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## phaxtris (Mar 13, 2021)

Chicken lights said:


> Can anyone tell me if a Miller Maxstar 150 STL is worth fixing?
> I don’t know what’s wrong with it. All I want is a 110v stick welder and I’m sure I could get this Miller cheap




i have seen those little guys dropped from scaffold, used in sauna like environments, rain, you name it, they are tough little units, ive never seen one broken.....that being said, the whole board is encapsulated in some kind of expoxy from what i recall, and thats really all that is inside the case, so unless its just a loose connection to the board repair is going to be the whole board...$$ so if your going to get it, get it cheap, like 100$ kinda cheap

i have had one of those little guys for almost 17 years, 6010 is a no go, it will burn 6011 decently, 7018 burns ok, getting it started is a little tricky and takes some practice compared to a larger machine, and can be frustrating to less experience stick welders, but it can lay a nice bead, and will run 1/8 7018 all day on 220, it has just enough duty cycle for it to never be a problem

as for running it on 110 with stick......3/32 7018 is the limit, short beads, take breaks, it will blow a 15 and even a 20a breaker in short order, if you are going to do any decent amount of welding on 110v you would probably be stuck with 3/32 6011 (as you will be probabaly down in the 50a range)

now tig on 110v, no problem, you can run it full out at 150a and it wont blow the breaker, they are great for that


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## Chicken lights (Mar 13, 2021)

The positive lead is loose (won’t tighten up). I’m guessing that’s an easy fix? I’ll mess with it later


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## phaxtris (Mar 13, 2021)

Chicken lights said:


> The positive lead is loose (won’t tighten up). I’m guessing that’s an easy fix? I’ll mess with it later



hey right on, i hope its an easy fix 

the one of the leads doesnt tighten, it will just spin, i do believe its the positive (wich ever one doesnt have the o-ring inside the connection), i dont know if thats the design of a 10mm dinse connection, or if its just the ones that miller decided to use

when you plug it in and turn it on does that little blue light even come on? if it doesnt thats where i would start, work your way back from the wall plug to the power connections inside the machine


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## Chicken lights (Mar 13, 2021)

phaxtris said:


> hey right on, i hope its an easy fix
> 
> the one of the leads doesnt tighten, it will just spin, i do believe its the positive (wich ever one doesnt have the o-ring inside the connection), i dont know if thats the design of a 10mm dinse connection, or if its just the ones that miller decided to use
> 
> when you plug it in and turn it on does that little blue light even come on? if it doesnt thats where i would start, work your way back from the wall plug to the power connections inside the machine


If I plug it in and turn it on the blue light comes on, and I can move the green light for the 3 different processes. If I had a lead and a ground I’d try it out. All that’s with it is the tig torch and cable


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## phaxtris (Mar 13, 2021)

Chicken lights said:


> If I plug it in and turn it on the blue light comes on, and I can move the green light for the 3 different processes. If I had a lead and a ground I’d try it out. All that’s with it is the tig torch and cable



those dinse connectors are really expensive at the welding stores, sounds like you need to put some cables together, those connectors are cheapest on amazon, if you dont get an arc i would start looking at the connection form the dinse connector to the board....like i said those little machines are really tough


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## Chicken lights (Mar 13, 2021)

phaxtris said:


> those dinse connectors are really expensive at the welding stores, sounds like you need to put some cables together, those connectors are cheapest on amazon, if you dont get an arc i would start looking at the connection form the dinse connector to the board....like i said those little machines are really tough


4 gauge heavy enough for cables? 
I do have some heavier cable here too but it’s mystery gauge

Thanks for the help


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## phaxtris (Mar 13, 2021)

Chicken lights said:


> 4 gauge heavy enough for cables?
> I do have some heavier cable here too but it’s mystery gauge
> 
> Thanks for the help



if its actual welding cable (high strand count) 4 would work, it might be a trick to get it to clamp into a stinger as it is pretty small...but if you already have it.... 

youre welcome


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## Swharfin' (Mar 13, 2021)

Millar 252 mig


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## ryanthemillwright0919 (Mar 31, 2021)

I have a Forney 110v multi process. It's invaluable. I'm building my trailer with, currently running.030 flux core (Lincoln inner shield). Haven't tig welded with it but have used the other process. Welds 3/32 7018 no problem


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## ShawnR (Nov 5, 2021)

Chicken lights said:


> If I plug it in and turn it on the blue light comes on, and I can move the green light for the 3 different processes. If I had a lead and a ground I’d try it out. All that’s with it is the tig torch and cable



@Chicken lights Did you ever get this welder working? One came across my bench last year but the owner took it back to the dealer. He had had it for years though and I don't think anything happened after that. I forget what the blue light means now but at the time, it sounded like an issue with the PC Board that required replacement, although I did not pursue it as he thought the dealer might look after him. iirc, the blue light issue was common.

Just curious if I should try to get it back on the bench to troubleshoot some more. I suspect all surface mount technology though so probably a board replacement only repair.


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## Mcgyver (Nov 6, 2021)

old lincoln buzzbox, Invetec Tig (needed the small size) and a Lincoln Mig pack and O/A.  I've got a fabrication business if I need something heavier but that rarely happens.  Biggest constraint is space, except for small bench top things, welding now all but impossible in my shop


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## CalgaryPT (Nov 6, 2021)

Mcgyver said:


> ....Biggest constraint is space, except for small bench top things, welding now all but impossible in my shop


Same issue. Boy do I know that feeling.


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## Everett (Nov 6, 2021)

I've got a Lincoln Square Wave Tig 200 machine, does AC/DC TIG and DC stick.  I still suck at TIG, especially aluminum, but got this over a MIG as I wanted to learn to weld aluminum and the fact that TIG doesn't throw sparks, slag and crap all over the shop that is attached to my house.  If I need to nail together larger fabrications I go out into the driveway to stick weld but smaller parts just get TIG'ed in the shop.  Hopefully I can shake less as time goes on and that will give my tungstens a longer expected life span, lol.


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## Susquatch (Nov 7, 2021)

Everett said:


> Hopefully I can shake less as time goes on and that will give my tungstens a longer expected life span, lol.



Shake less as time goes on? You are dreaming in Technicolor my friend.....

That's the bad news. The good news is that your eyes will get worse to the point that you can't see the shake anymore.....

Amazing what kind of weld bead you can lay down with shaky hands and fuzzy eyes. My bride of 50 years calls it "ART".


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## Brent H (Nov 7, 2021)

I was just exploring the Everlast Welder site and they are coming out with a Mig/Stick/Plasma






						MultiProcess MIG, Stick & Plasma | Everlast Welders Canada
					

Get MultiProcess Mig Stick Plasma Welder Online at Everlast Welders Canada. These MIG welder / Stick welder/ Plasma cut muti-function units were designed to give excellent performance and convenience using any of the three processes.




					www.everlastwelders.ca
				




For most of my stuff that would be pretty neat!


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## Susquatch (Nov 7, 2021)

Brent H said:


> I was just exploring the Everlast Welder site and they are coming out with a Mig/Stick/Plasma
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I appreciate the redundancy point made by someone earlier, but for me an all in one would be great. I'm not worried about a machine crapping out. I'm almost never in a rush and I have neighbours that can weld better than I do with their eyes closed.

I like some of the new features of this machine. Anything to help me lay a better bead would be appreciated.

A plasma cutter too..... 

OH yes, I almost forgot, the subject of the thread:

Lincoln Tombstone AC/DC 225
Lincoln EasyMIG 180
OxyAcetylene

Ya, sometimes I still like to weld with gas.....

I'm no welder though. My beads are nothing more than embarrassing. Still waiting for the day I lay a good one by accident.

Never tried TIG. Maybe someday.

I doubt buying a fancier all-in-one would actually improve my welding. But a fellow is allowed to dream.


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## crittermutt (Nov 7, 2021)

I have a Miller Dynasty 200 Dx tig,
Migmatic 200 mig, Lincoln ranger 250 portable and a couple of plasma cutters to round it out.


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## CalgaryPT (Nov 7, 2021)

Everett said:


> ...Hopefully I can shake less as time goes on and that will give my tungstens a longer expected life span, lol.


Here's a thread about a devoted TIG table I built. I'm getting ready to make some modes to it, but the idea I got from a fellow who teaches TIG is solid. Basically you need to be sitting down with your arms resting on the table. It makes a huge improvement I found. Seriously. My shaking almost went away. I built mine off the side of my main workbench, but will be changing it so it is larger and hinged I think. That way it is easier to set up.

The thread is here: https://canadianhobbymetalworkers.com/threads/tig-table-from-scrap.1989/#post-21799


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## John Conroy (Nov 7, 2021)

I have had my Millermatic 180 mig welder for about 20 years and it's been bullet proof. I bought an Everlast Powertig 200 DV about 5 years ago and it is a great machine but my tig welding is still pretty bad. I also have a cheap 40 amp plasma cutter that works well for thin metals.


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## CalgaryPT (Nov 7, 2021)

That's a very neat and clean setup John.


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## John Conroy (Nov 7, 2021)

Thanks Pete, I always do what I can to save space and this vertical stacking seems to be the most efficient solution I could could come up with.


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## thriller007 (Nov 9, 2021)

I run a Lincoln 180 wire feed and I Everlast 205 stick AC tig plasma combo


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## Susquatch (Nov 9, 2021)

Got the bride's car fixed up at a body shop 45 minutes away after hitting a deer. The fellow there invited me over for a sheet metal welding lesson....... 

Be still my heart.......


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## kevin.decelles (Nov 9, 2021)

Lincoln Tombstone AC 225 stick
Miller Millermatic 211 mig (110/220v)
Longevity Weldall 250pi (200 amp AC/DC stick, 250 amp AC/DC tig, 40 amp plasma cutter)

My instructions are for all 3 machines to be buried with me.


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## Snocrusher (Nov 25, 2021)

I have a ESAB Multimaster 260 and a TD Cutmaster 50
And a myriad of corded, cordless and pneumatic grinders to dress up my efforts with the above.


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## Degen (Dec 23, 2021)

I had a PrincessAuto mig welder and it served me well.  This year bought a Primeweld TIG 225x and got rid of the Mig lets me do more things.  If I need something for dirty stuff, the 225x does stick as well, though I don't think I'll need it.


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## LRSbm146 (Jan 8, 2022)

Picking out a welding machine is a pretty difficult task these days. All the different colours and features vs. the prices. 
When I picked out my machine I knew the parameters I wanted and it still wasn’t easy. My budget was pretty flexible to a point. 
I wanted a DC inverter for stick and tig only (I avoid all things wirefeed like the plague) 
Stick 50-130 amps
Tig 10-130 amps 
110-220v
Didn’t want a bunch of features that nobody knows how to use... no foot pedal, no solenoids. 
Went with an ESAB 161LTS and paid just under $600 from a local shop. For tig it’s lift arc only and I use a weldcraft/Miller 9 series torch with a gas valve on the handle and a flow meter on the bottle. 
I usually run it on 220v but done lots of low amp tig on 110v. The tig arc is as smooth as any Miller I’ve used but haven’t tried putting in a root with it. 
It’s burned mostly 3/32” stick and some 1/8”.... 7018, 309, 308, 316 and inco with no problems. It even seems to restart stubs better than the millers we use at work.


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## DPittman (Jan 8, 2022)

So I have a small 115volt Deca mig welder and think I want to upgrade to something that has more Amps for heavier material.  I do have a good AC/DC stick machine for my heaviest welding but I like the ease and convenience of a mig for alot of stuff.  
I haven't TIG welded before nor welded aluminum and don't suspect I will need to do much of either in the future either.   

I think the Hobart 210MVP looks like a suitable fit for me but I'm wondering if I should be considering the multiprocess machine out there instead.  Is there any benefit to them for just mig welding?  

Any suggestions? I think the $1400-1500 price tag of the Hobart 210 MVP is about all I can/should spend.


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## Tom O (Jan 8, 2022)

My first tig was like that but only a 100 amps Princess Auto Special still it was good for the body repair I was doing at the time.


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## Tom O (Jan 8, 2022)

That’s the rub you never know what you’ll work on or material I’d go for AC/DC just to cover the bases, pulse is nice but not needed always.


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## Dan Dubeau (Jan 8, 2022)

Here's my setup.  Lincoln 180c Mig and spool gun, Lincoln Squarewave 175 tig, and a herocut 55 plasma.  All run off a 40amp breaker (biggest I can get for my panel) and I haven't run into any projects they've let me down on.  I've also got an ac225 buzz box but after stick welding with the tig on DC I relegated it to barn duty for use with the generator if I ever need it.  I've only got 80cf bottles from TSC and will be looking into getting some bigger ones shortly if anybody has any recommendations in the east gta (peterborough-oshawa-porthope) area?  







I used to have a hobart 135 but gave it away to a buddy starting out.  He promptly sold it, and If I would have know that I would have kept it lol.  Was a handy machine for sheet metal/body work stuff and I've missed it a few times since.


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## Degen (Jan 8, 2022)

When I went looking beginning of last year, I considered my options in terms of the application/$$$ spent.  As Multi-purpose as possible, affordable, features to expand, good warranty.

What I came up with was the Primeweld TIG 225X for the following reasons:

AC/DC Tig (Allows for Aluminum).
High Frequency Start
Peddle and Trigger
Pulse and Pulse Duty

Second it had Stick DC only, but thats ok,

Dual Voltage 120/240

Max power with reduced duty Cycle 225amps TIG, never exceed 155amps yet (and thats 100%)

Max Power Stick 155amps and thats 100%

Finally uses Quality Stinger CK Worldwide and can be water cooled Tig (need water cooler and stinger) which increase TIG time (Stinger stays cool so I've read).

Got rid of my MIG, truefully, while its faster and costs less to run, TIG is easier, cleaner and more precise.  If I need down and dirty, Stick.....which it does.

@LRSbm146 

True be told, all the knobs seem intimidating at first, but follow the manual (and a couple of YouTubers), I general set about 4 knobs, and play with power a bit (set it to the highest I need, not more, advise from a few welding YouTubes). 

Peddle and Solenoid, are important as follows:

Solenoid safes GAS, reduces operating cost,

Peddle, takes a little to get use to (because you need to control distance for the stinger, feed wire and control power), doesn't take long to get the hang of it, and the quality of the welds are so controlable.

One other thing is the Tungsten, I use 2% Lanthenated, not the best for particular applications but does everything well (or extremely well) again some of the YouTube advise.  So far can't complain one less item to get used too. Second was I stick to a #5 Cup and the thinner Tungsten until I finally need to Upgrade.

I've welded Cast Iron, Stainless Steel, Hot Rolled, Colded Rolled and Aluminum (Aluminum still needs a little more practice to get right), total time on machine maybe 2-3hrs.  Wasted a lot of gas (tank) first 2 hrs getting the set up right.

So for US$825 (less a discount of $10.00 and free shipping to my US Address, commercial import no cost for me) this is CDN$1100.00.

DOn't forget whatever you buy, Tank and consummables add to this cost.


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## LRSbm146 (Jan 8, 2022)

@Degen welding machines are a real Ford vs Chevy conversation. Hahaha

I think a lot of people over machine themselves because of something they saw on YouTube. Tig welding aluminum is an art in itself. Depending on a persons needs, they would probably have more success and satisfaction from a spool gun for aluminum.
Probably started about 5 years ago, we stopped bringing out diesel welders on field jobs and started using the little Miller maxstar dc stick/tig inverters. I’ve seen things done to those machines that should never be done to any machine and they don’t die. Can be wired up to just about anything.
Couple of maxstar action shots.


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## Degen (Jan 8, 2022)

Have to say my 3rd weld (about 15mins after starting the welder) was on poorly prepped Al, not a bad weld actually considering.

I've welded with a flux core mig for about 20 yrs (if you call what I did as welding  it held together is what counted).

For me, the learning curve was vastly quicker on the tig.  I can see all the benefits of the extra features and will make use of them as needed.

I have learned in life under buying is way more costly than over buying if you can afford it.


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## MW/MC (Jan 9, 2022)

crittermutt said:


> I have a Miller Dynasty 200 Dx tig,
> Migmatic 200 mig, Lincoln ranger 250 portable and a couple of plasma cutters to round it out.


I have the same one I’m thinking of selling it and my Miller 211 mig and get the multimatic 200
The dx200 is To much machine for me


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## MW/MC (Jan 9, 2022)

LRSbm146 said:


> @Degen welding machines are a real Ford vs Chevy conversation. Hahaha
> 
> I think a lot of people over machine themselves because of something they saw on YouTube. Tig welding aluminum is an art in itself. Depending on a persons needs, they would probably have more success and satisfaction from a spool gun for aluminum.
> Probably started about 5 years ago, we stopped bringing out diesel welders on field jobs and started using the little Miller maxstar dc stick/tig inverters. I’ve seen things done to those machines that should never be done to any machine and they don’t die. Can be wired up to just about anything.
> Couple of maxstar action shots.


Looks like some 146 action there !! Welcome


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## Gearhead88 (Feb 14, 2022)

Right out of high school I was a welder for several years off & on . I've done a great deal of production welding , Stick & Mig  , later on some Tig . I never mastered Tig , some days I rocked , some days I sucked . I still own a mig and can still lay it down with that .
I have not Tig welded in 20 years .
I bought a Miller Syncrowave 180 SD on Saturday , I need a bit of time to gather everything I need for this and be up n' running .

Maybe gonna buy a fancy auto darkening helmet , looking around revealed , man they don't give those away .


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## ShawnR (Feb 14, 2022)

Gearhead88 said:


> Right out of high school I was a welder for several years off & on . I've done a great deal of production welding , Stick & Mig  , later on some Tig . I never mastered Tig , some days I rocked , some days I sucked . I still own a mig and can still lay it down with that .
> I have not Tig welded in 20 years .
> I bought a Miller Syncrowave 180 SD on Saturday , I need a bit of time to gather everything I need for this and be up n' running .


That is funny....I just sold a Syncrowave 180 SD on Saturday!    Nice machine. You will like it. The manual is available on line but I just downloaded it for the buyer of mine and I wanted to check the points gap. PM me and I can email it to you if you want it.

Cheers,


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## Chicken lights (Feb 14, 2022)

Gearhead88 said:


> Right out of high school I was a welder for several years off & on . I've done a great deal of production welding , Stick & Mig  , later on some Tig . I never mastered Tig , some days I rocked , some days I sucked . I still own a mig and can still lay it down with that .
> I have not Tig welded in 20 years .
> I bought a Miller Syncrowave 180 SD on Saturday , I need a bit of time to gather everything I need for this and be up n' running .
> 
> Maybe gonna buy a fancy auto darkening helmet , looking around revealed , man they don't give those away .View attachment 21080


Depends how fancy you want, I picked up an auto darkening lid from crappy tire for around $90, on sale


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## YYCHM (Feb 14, 2022)

Chicken lights said:


> Depends how fancy you want, I picked up an auto darkening lid from crappy tire for around $90, on sale



$32 on sale at PA.  Has a grinding/welding setting


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## Degen (Feb 14, 2022)

I have 2 auto darkening ones.  One is true colour, love it.  But it does cost.

When I first started welding, I used a regular helmet, it did make welding difficult, when I switched, my first one was a cheap one (still have it) but my welding improved...I could see!

The true colour lens is the next level in clarity.

I would say, aside from a good welder, this is the most important item, makes welding easy and most importantly protects your eyes.

One other thing some of the newer cheap auto versions do not filter correctly and do not provide protection, so be careful when you buy.


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## Dan Dubeau (Feb 14, 2022)

The best money I ever spent on welding gear was my Lincoln Viking autodark helmet.  I had a couple fixed shades and a cheap PA autodark, that always served me well for mig and stick, but once I got the tig, my autodark flashed me a couple times at lower amperages.  Looking around online, it was a common problem of the older import autodarks.  I figured it was time to treat myself, so I splurged and bought the viking because it had a bigger lense than the others in it's category.  It's been a few years, so there might be better deals and values out there, but I don't regret spending the money for a good quality hood.   I only use it for mig and tig.  I still prefer my gold lense for stick.


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## CalgaryPT (Feb 14, 2022)

Auto darkening helmets are to welding what soldering irons are to electronics. You can find other ways to do it, but the right tool makes it a joy. 

(Pipeline welders not withstanding, but—well…they are pipeline welders after all and not subject to normal rules or physical laws of nature.)


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## Degen (Feb 14, 2022)

Speaking of soldering electronics I do a lot with lead free.  Secret is not only a good (digital) temp controlled iron with power (80w my other is 150w and both are pencils) but the solder itself, makes the biggest difference between this is just as easy as leaded or ARGH! Hate this stuff.

BTW I go through about 3 to 8lbs of lead free a year.


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## ShawnR (Feb 14, 2022)

Degen said:


> Speaking of soldering electronics I do a lot with lead free.  Secret is not only a good (digital) temp controlled iron with power (80w my other is 150w and both are pencils) but the solder itself, makes the biggest difference between this is just as easy as leaded or ARGH! Hate this stuff.
> 
> BTW I go through about 3 to 8lbs of lead free a year.


That is a lot of soldering! I bought a 1 lb roll of solder about 28 years ago and still have some. And I ran a business doing repairs....and other nerdy stuff. But my iron is only 27 watt......I guess I am a small fish....


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## CalgaryPT (Feb 14, 2022)

Everyone thinks I’m nuts for this BUT I love the smell of lead solder and have for almost 50 years. I’m sure I’ll be drooling into a small cup at the old folks’ home while the rest of you are playing three dimensional chess and solving differential equations.


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## YYCHM (Feb 14, 2022)

CalgaryPT said:


> Everyone thinks I’m nuts for this BUT I love the smell of lead solder and have for almost 50 years. I’m sure I’ll be drooling into a small cup at the old folks’ home while the rest of you are playing three dimensional chess and solving differential equations.



You sure it was the lead and not the flux


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## CalgaryPT (Feb 14, 2022)

YYCHM said:


> You sure it was the lead and not the flux


Sadly I'm sure.


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## Tom O (Feb 14, 2022)

That’s like the bottle of mercury in the basement I have.


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## Degen (Feb 15, 2022)

CalgaryPT said:


> Everyone thinks I’m nuts for this BUT I love the smell of lead solder and have for almost 50 years. I’m sure I’ll be drooling into a small cup at the old folks’ home while the rest of you are playing three dimensional chess and solving differential equations.


I started soldering because I loved the smell of flux (sad I know), The new fluxes they use now in solder is as bad as the lead if not worse in other ways, I use an air filter (big one designed for this stuff).


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## LRSbm146 (Feb 15, 2022)

My old roll of kester finally ran out and started using that MGchemicals no clean. It seems to be pretty good. I got the lead but don’t solder that much. 
For welding helmets, I have a Miller titanium that was pretty good. It came with the power air filter belt pack and I think the fan was a bit of a let down. There might be more options now but the filters were pretty much the same as a dust mask.  The 3m half mask or similar with the filter selection they offer is a pretty safe setup. Someone should 3D print an adapter.... 
Another thing with welding as we get older is our eyes and I wear a pretty strong prescription. I keep a cheap PA helmet around with a clear glass lens upfront, regular old glass #10 and a magnifier lens on the helmet side. I like it for tig welding, it’s a clearer picture through the glass and try to limit how many layers I’m looking through. Then switch to a grinding face shield to save my welding lenses. 
Sometimes these auto darkening will flicker with lower amps or corners. Cheap backup is good anyway.


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## Susquatch (Feb 15, 2022)

CalgaryPT said:


> Auto darkening helmets are to welding what soldering irons are to electronics. You can find other ways to do it, but the right tool makes it a joy.



You are a sick man. First, by your own admission, you sound like a real sicko playing a musical instrument and now you claim that soldering can be a real joy with the right tools..... 

I can solder with the best of them and I have some great soldering tools. But I still hate soldering. It's right up there with using the best tools to pick up dog poop. 

Just yesterday I repaired some sprayer electronics for a neighbour who had pulled a male blade out of the circuit board. It's a 12 handed job. My wife helped hold the parts I couldn't hold with clips while I replaced the blade. Her telling observation was: "I think I'd rather be poked in the eye with a sharp stick than do that."


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## jcdammeyer (Feb 15, 2022)

NDS Electronics in Coquitlam does the surface mounts but I still solder on the connectors.  But on the DMX2LED prototypes I soldered all the parts. The quad flat packs aren't that hard with a bit of practice.  I use a flip down magnifier to help.  Hot air to remove.

For welding I now have a nice Lincoln Helmet to replace the erratic one I think I bought at PA many decades ago.


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## Susquatch (Feb 15, 2022)

jcdammeyer said:


> Hot air to remove.



Huh? That's a new one on me! 

I will have to look into how that is done! I've been using braid for years now.


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## Degen (Feb 15, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Huh? That's a new one on me!
> 
> I will have to look into how that is done! I've been using braid for years now.


????? Been around for at least 15 years.   Where have you been hiding??


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## jcdammeyer (Feb 15, 2022)




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## Susquatch (Feb 15, 2022)

Degen said:


> ????? Been around for at least 15 years.   Where have you been hiding??



I've heard of low melt solder, but never knew you could do it with hot air!


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## Susquatch (Feb 15, 2022)

Degen said:


> ????? Been around for at least 15 years.   Where have you been hiding??



Actually, now that I think about it, I retired a bit over 15 years ago....... Not sure I'd call that hiding though.......

Amazing how fast time flies. Seems like just yesterday I was playing with my oldest son. I have a great grandson to play with now!


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## jcdammeyer (Feb 15, 2022)

The nozzles I have for mine can redirect the hot air so it only hits the pins.  I've removed devices and reused them with that approach. 
The easy way to solder if you don't have paste and all is to tack one corner pin of the device until the quad pins all line up properly.  Then tack the other corner.  Once you have it well lined up apply lots of flux and drag the iron and solder along all the pins.  You don't care if they short.

Then use solder wick and again lots of flux to remove the bridges.  You end up with the pads shorted and nothing between.  If there is a bit, it's easier to apply more solder first and then remove it with lots of flux and wick.

These in the attached picture are a bitch to solder.  That's because under the device is a large copper pad which serves also as the Ground connection.  If it doesn't solder well then the chip releases magic smoke.  Removing them requires 3 hands and the desire to be more like an octopus with 8 arms.

Essentially if it's toast the easiest way to remove it is to use a bade to slice through both rows of pins to separate them from the body of the device. 
Then lots of solder on the pins and wick to remove the cut pins without lifting the pads.  Now hot air from the top and a larger soldering iron with a solder blob on it from the other side conducting heat through the feed through and melting the solder under the pad.


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## Degen (Feb 15, 2022)

Personally never used hot air, just a hot iron, fine tip and good hand eye coordination.  Smallest form factor I've used and designed for is 0602


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## Doggggboy (Feb 15, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> You are a sick man. First, by your own admission, you sound like a real sicko playing a musical instrument and now you claim that soldering can be a real joy with the right tools.....
> 
> I can solder with the best of them and I have some great soldering tools. But I still hate soldering. It's right up there with using the best tools to pick up dog poop.
> 
> Just yesterday I repaired some sprayer electronics for a neighbour who had pulled a male blade out of the circuit board. It's a 12 handed job. My wife helped hold the parts I couldn't hold with clips while I replaced the blade. Her telling observation was: "I think I'd rather be poked in the eye with a sharp stick than do that."


Hey now!
Dog poop is one of the best ways to tell if your dog is healthy.
No poop for more than a day....go to the vet. Possible blockage
Tarry poop...go to the vet. Possible internal bleeding.
Runny poop... give some canned pumpkin. The wonder drug for gastro issues.
Bloody poop...... cooked rice or pumpkin and wait for a change.
Poop with a Barbie head in it....call the owner and tell them to make the kids put away the toys.
Poop with a tiny green g-string... St Patrick's day.
Poop with a Wunderbar wrapper in it... Hallowe'en
After 20 years of running a kennel, my Google photos album is quite appalling,


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## graig (Feb 18, 2022)

I have Everlast TIG and Plasma cutter. They are great. I'd like to get one of their MIG units to replace my entry level Lincoln.


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## CWret (Apr 18, 2022)

I'm a bit late to the party here as a new member but I am adding a couple of comments:
- *Multi-process welder comparison* 
In early 2019 I did a lot of research before upgrading my trusty old Thermal Arc 180 to an AC/DC multi-process machine (I wanted to be able to do TIG aluminum). I compared the Miller Multimatic 220AC/DC (first choice), ESAB Rebel EMP205ic AC/DC (2nd place) and the Everlast 221STi AC/DC (3rd place). There is no bad choices here! Miller has excellent service, reputation and customer satisfaction and is super easy to use/learn. ESAB is very close behind the Miller with more flexability but not as easy to use/learn. The Everlast was first to offer an AC/DC unit, it has a very good reputation and a great price point but the cost of entry was not my focus. As an aside, I also considered the Fronius TranSteel 2200 - it's an awesome machine, built in Austria with no China parts (like the others have). I tried out both the Miller and Fronius at their respective Mississauga head offices (both were very helpful and willing to let me strike an arc for an hour or so at their training facilities). The TranSteel jumped to first place but without AC/DC it got put out by the Miller. After 3+ years I'm very happy with my choice.
FYI - Using the Miller (and lots of youtube) I taught myself TIG aluminum before buying their Spoolmate150 spoolgun. The TIG aluminum learning curve is long, tough, and expensive, but I'm glad I can do both (not that well, but acceptable).
- *Welding hoods*
I had a couple of cheapies then a fairly good Miller Classic. Then I upgraded to an Optrel e684 which was later upgraded to an Optrel Panoramaxx. It is expensive, yes (very expensive) - but so are my eyes. It is an absolutely awesome hood (for TIG it is terrific). A couple of weeks ago I tried out their new Panoramaxx CLT for an afternoon. It's even better! 
- *Plasma cutter*
I saw other posts from a while ago about cutters so I'm adding my 2 cents here. A year ago I got a Hypertherm 45XP. I'm very happy with my choice. Arguably the best there is and also the most expensive but I think it is worth the extra coin. I had considered the 30XP but now realize the extra $s for the 45XP was the right way to go.

Really enjoying this forum
Thanks guys
Craig


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## Chris Cramer (Aug 12, 2022)

I used to have a miller multimatic 215, that was my first welder but it just recently stopped working again. I had to get the control board replaced about 3 years ago, and it just so happens that that is what they say must be done again. My uncle was the lead engineer at Shaw for many years so I'm beginning to wonder if the control board could be repaired rather than replaced, because a new board costs $1300. If that cant be done then I'll continue saving up for a new multimatic 220. I could already afford a new 215, but I also think that it would be worth it to save for the 220 by how many processes it has.


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## Chris Cramer (Aug 12, 2022)

I also replaced my everlast power plasma 50s with the Hypertherm 45xp. I'm also happy with my choice, especially when you have a CNC plasma table to use it with.


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## Degen (Aug 13, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> You are a sick man. First, by your own admission, you sound like a real sicko playing a musical instrument and now you claim that soldering can be a real joy with the right tools.....
> 
> I can solder with the best of them and I have some great soldering tools. But I still hate soldering. It's right up there with using the best tools to pick up dog poop.
> 
> Just yesterday I repaired some sprayer electronics for a neighbour who had pulled a male blade out of the circuit board. It's a 12 handed job. My wife helped hold the parts I couldn't hold with clips while I replaced the blade. Her telling observation was: "I think I'd rather be poked in the eye with a sharp stick than do that."


Just read this post, what you need is paste flux,  basically a flux that holds the parts in place as you apply heat and solder, that and a few alligator clips.

Sorry I solder way too much in the range if several lbs of solder per year all electronic related by hand.


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## Susquatch (Aug 13, 2022)

Degen said:


> Just read this post, what you need is paste flux,  basically a flux that holds the parts in place as you apply heat and solder, that and a few alligator clips.
> 
> Sorry I solder way too much in the range if several lbs of solder per year all electronic related by hand.



I used to solder way more than that. I don't anymore. I avoid it if possible.

Solder flux (including paste flux) is not a temporary adhesive. It's function is to chemically prepare the surface of the target metal, remove surface oxidation, prevent new heat related surface oxidation, and improve wetting - spreading the liquid solder across the metal surface to allow the molecules of the solder to bond to the molecules of the target metals.

If you read the earlier parts of that thread you will see that this particular comment of mine was also mostly an attempt at humour.


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## Degen (Aug 13, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> I used to solder way more than that. I don't anymore. I avoid it if possible.
> 
> Solder flux (including paste flux) is not a temporary adhesive. It's function is to chemically prepare the surface of the target metal, remove surface oxidation, prevent new heat related surface oxidation, and improve wetting - spreading the liquid solder across the metal surface to allow the molecules of the solder to bond to the molecules of the target metals.
> 
> If you read the earlier parts of that thread you will see that this particular comment of mine was also mostly an attempt at humour.


I assumed humuor was intended.

That said,  some of the newer fluxes are actually a combination of both, flux properties and all that it entails and temporary adhesive prior to soldering.  My source for flux and solder is distrubutor for one of the best Leadfree solders out there.  Been using it for about 18 years when I got into surface mount builds and serious production.

While Rohs has changed the industry some of its replacements products have added even more danger.


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## jcdammeyer (Aug 13, 2022)

There's something (not sure what) rewarding when hand assembling a surface mount board and having it work first time.  This is a photo from 2009.  Nowadays I find I shake a bit for the first one until the muscle memory kicks back in.


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## jcdammeyer (Aug 13, 2022)

And for welding I used to use a cheap auto darkening with solar charging but found it was getting slow at switching on the first spark.  So I splurged and bought a good one.  Not that I weld that often.


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## CWret (Aug 13, 2022)

Chris Cramer said:


> I used to have a miller multimatic 215, that was my first welder but it just recently stopped working again. I had to get the control board replaced about 2 years ago, and it just so happens is what they say must be done again. My uncle was the lead engineer at Shaw for many years so I'm beginning to wonder if the control board could be repaired rather than replaced, because a new board costs $1300. If that cant be done then I'll continue saving up for a new multimatic 220. I could already afford a new 215, but I also think that it would be worth it to save for the 220 by how many processes it has.


That is somewhat disturbing to hear about your problems with your 215. One of the main reasons I went with Miller was their (better-than-average) reputation for good reliability. I'd be very disappointed if my 220 had a similar system failure. I attended Fabtech in Toronto a couple of months ago and I spent considerable time at the Fronius booth. Their TranSteel (as I said above) is an awesome machine that gives lots of versatility for a multi-process machine - but no AC TIG. Again, as I said above, Fronius was very willing to show off their machine and you may want to give them a visit (by the way, the TransSteel is less expensive than a Miller 220)  Although my 220 has been problem free and I am happy with it - I sometimes think that a good MIG machine and a good TIG machine might have been a better way to go. Two machines are more expensive than one multi-process but there are many advantages. Multi-process machines come with compromises and less versatility. Multi-process machines are well suited to hobby guys (like me) and are not intended for professional welders. I've been on the hunt for a milling machine. When I first started looking I thought a combo lathe/mill would be a great choice for my small shop (Smithy Granite, King KC 1620CLM, Craftex CX615, etc). I now see them as having too many compromises and don't do either operation very well. The multi-process welder, on the other hand, is a much better marriage.

Craig


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## Tom O (Aug 13, 2022)

I have the Millermatic 130 (.023 wire) I bought for $50 it was’nt working and I had to replace the capacitor bank upgrading the capacitors to ones fo a 210 or something around there.










I have this for anything else it’s a Miller 351 so it runs on 220 volts


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## CWret (Aug 13, 2022)

@Chris Cramer  - back to your original question. The Miller220 is an awesome multi-purpose machine. Really easy to learn and very easy to use. It make beginners look good and it has lots of flexibility/settings/adjustments to help you tackle more difficult situations as your skill level improves. I particularly like the pro-set. It is so easy to get you started when changing types of welds. It’s great for MIG. My TIG ability is still a learning experience and the 220 is a big help.
I also really like the way it will switch between processes. TIG to MIG to TIG to MIG. The TIG torch can be connected at the same time as the MIG gun. Example: You tack a piece with TIG and then pick up the MIG gun. Just pull the trigger and it immediately switches to your last MIG setting and you’re doing MIG. No changing gas lines. No polarity concerns. No nothing. Awesome!

I am very happy with my Miller 220. It’s been a joy to use and certainly helped me become a better welder. I smile whenever i fire it up. So to answer your original question: Should you save up to get the 220 vs the 215? In my opinion  - YES! 

Oh yea - i wish it came with a longer MIG gun. It’s only 10ft (really Miller !! just 10 ft). I’m about to up grade to a 15 ft CM. I also plan to up grade the TIG torch to a CWS Flexloc but Miller’s is just ok - so no big hurry.


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## Chris Cramer (Aug 13, 2022)

My 215 did last for more than 5 years, and it was pretty reliable. Even if the control board could be repaired or replaced for a cheaper price, I'm thinking it would still be better to get a new machine because of how old it is. I did some research on other multiprocess machines like the ESAB 205.ic. At first I thought about purchasing that instead of the 220 because of its higher flexibility and higher duty cycle; however, Miller's pro set feature would be far more beneficial to me when I get back into AC TIG. The feature you mentioned about how it can run MIG or TIG with both set up and plugged in would also be very handy, and the lower duty cycle only comes when stick welding, which I don't use often. In my opinion the 220 is much more suitable for a smaller shop or hobbyist, the ESAB 205.ic is simply a more industrial welder.


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## Chris Cramer (Aug 13, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> I used to solder way more than that. I don't anymore. I avoid it if possible.


I technically only use solder wen making jewelry which is done with a torch, or when fabricating/ repairing electronics with an iron. Soldering jewelry is closer to brazing depending on how hard the solder is, because you are pretty much melting filler metal onto the surface of heated metal. Ever since I lost my welder I've been using my oxy fuel torch to torch weld or braze my projects. Torch welding and brazing are pretty similar to tig welding without a foot pedal, only it is much more difficult to prevent porosity without a wider curtain of shielding gas. The outer flame/ combusted gas is what shields the weld, but it is much smaller.


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## CWret (Aug 14, 2022)

These are comparisons of the ESAB205 and M220 by Baker's Gas






This one is a 6 minute sales pitch by Miller - it's well done.


fun but tough choices @Chris Cramer. For me there isn't enough room or $ for everything!!  

Either the ESAB or Miller would be great choices. The 220 is on sale at KMS Tools $500 off list. Their sales flyer this month for the 205 is really a great price with $1380 off list (but KMS is in Alberta). I mostly deal with Air Liquide & they usually can come very close to price matching but then I have bought quite a bit from them.
When I did my comparison I almost went with the ESAB - but the Miller is much more common with parts and consumables available everywhere. Consumables and parts for the ESAB are more expensive but the ESAB has a wider range for frequency, DC pulse and AC balance. They both have 2 gas ports so switching processes is easy (Miller is very easy & quick). IMO the ESAB is a great TIG machine that is also good at MIG and the Miller is a great MIG machine that can also do TIG. (80% of my welding is MIG which is why I really liked the Fronius TranSteel - oooops another choice). My trip to Miller's training center in Mississauga was the deciding factor and why I have the 220. They (there was only 3 of us there, 2 tech reps and myself) gave me a demo and instructions. I used the 220 for over an hour with them giving me pointers along the way. I was doing mostly TIG because that was the first time I'd held a TIG torch. They were awesome. 
Not sure where you are located - I'm in Burlington. You can come try my 220 if you'd like.

Craig


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## Chris Cramer (Aug 14, 2022)

I do live in Alberta, in Calgary, kms is where I buy most of my tools, and I am looking between their deal on the 220, and Kristian electric's offer for the 220. I do more tig than mig because I like the slower paced flexible control you have over the weld pool, and I work with fairly thin metal. In comparison to the ESAB how well does the 220 do DC TIG? I have a good idea of proper settings for DC TIG (non pulse) but I haven't used pulse, or AC for about 6 years since I graduated.


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## CWret (Aug 14, 2022)

My knowledge of the ESAB is limited to what i leaned on the www so i can’t be much help there.


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## Chris Cramer (Sep 13, 2022)

I ended up purchasing the multimatic 220 ac dc for the long run. I've tested the dc mig and tig including the pulse. The tig with high frequency start holds a very stable arc, and the mig on mild steel goes very fast. I just received it on Saturday, so I haven't worked with the settings very much, or used the ac tig at all. I'm definitely more satisfied with this welder than my oxy acetylene torch for welding, maybe even for welding brass or copper.


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## jcdammeyer (Sep 13, 2022)

This is what I have: The Lincoln SP-175 Plus.


			https://www.lincolnelectric.com/assets/servicenavigator-public/lincoln3/IM790.pdf
		

I also have oxy-acet with single stage regulators.  Really wish I'd had the funds at the time to buy the dual stage.  I took the NAIT night school gas welding course many decades ago.  At that time the thickest coupons we learned to weld together were 1/4" flat plate.  And for 1/4" we had to be able to weld it both vertically and horizontally.


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## Dabbler (Sep 13, 2022)

CWret said:


> i wish it came with a longer MIG gun. It’s only 10ft


I wish my Mig cable was only 6 feet- then I wouldn't need a spool gun for aluminum.  (really)


Chris Cramer said:


> tig than mig because I like the slower paced flexible control


I use my Miller at a lower voltage and slower feeds and weld at about TIG speeds.  It is what works for me.  I use a lot more gas that way, but I like my welds when done.


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## phaxtris (Sep 13, 2022)

I'll add to this

Current;
Maxstar 150
Thermal arc fabricator 211
Thermal arc 186 Ac/DC
Vantage 300
Hypertherm 45

Gone;
Deca 140
MillerMatic 210
Fabricator 141 (?)
60's model sa200
Vantage 300 (at one time I had two of these)
Thermal dynamics cutmaster 52
Thermal dynamics cutmaster 42
Edit: almost forgot Lincoln 180 mig

I've thought about adding either a cst280 or a maxstar 200 to the list to have an inverter capable of 5/32...but it's always worked out that I could borrow one when needed


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## CWret (Sep 14, 2022)

@Chris Cramer  - Great, I think you'll be very happy with your choice. IMO: The Miller 220 is the perfect machine for a home hobbyist. 

I've been a self-taught MIG welder for 20 + years but I wanted to learn TIG aluminum so thanks to the Miller 220 & youtube + lots of hood time I got OK at TIG aluminum. I resisted getting a spool gun because I wanted to force myself to learn TIG first. Then I got a spool gun. It is terrific - so easy it's almost like cheating. Aluminum welding with either a spool gun or TIG both have their place. Glad I can do either and have the choice. The Miller 150 Spoolmate spool gun is nearly $900 now - just a couple of years ago I got mine on sale for $600. Big dollars but I would still recommend getting it.
I attached a couple of pics of my M220 setup. I have it on a 27" tool chest - I think this is way better than the welding carts that also hold the gas cylinders. This gives me lots of storage for all my welding accessories and consumables. I got a pair of 25 ft gas hoses so the bottles stay put (anchored to the wall)- much easier (lighter) than having them on the same mobile cart with the welder. You might notice in the pic that the hoses are marked with red & white tape (both ends) so that I know which is which when reconnecting bottles.
The welder sits beside my fab table - to protect it from grinding spray (and other nasty stuff) I have a piece of plywood on a metal base (red sheet in the pic) that is easy to relocate as necessary. I attached a bent rod to the top of the welder which acts as a hook to hold the welding cables. The TIG foot peddle is neatly stored behind the welder. My spool gun is coiled up on top of the welder. This is my setup -- have fun setting up your welder so that everything is convieniet for you.


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## Susquatch (Sep 14, 2022)

You welding guys all suck. 

Wish I could weld half as well as all of you do.


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## Chris Cramer (Sep 14, 2022)

Nice setup, I like how you have your plasma cutter mounted on the wall. That could be a better way to position my evenheat kiln if I added some support. Currently I have both my welder and my plasma cutter placed on a metal welding cart that I built when I first setup my shop, and my kiln had to go under a small table I use for a mitter saw. There are definitely some arrangements I should carry out to save space. My plasma table needs to be close to my plasma cutter, and I would want my welder to be fairly close to my work bench.


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## Chris Cramer (Sep 14, 2022)

I still haven't tried the ac aluminum tig, but I'm still familiar with aluminum mig with the spoolmate 150. I purchased that about 2-3 years ago for my multimatic 215. Aluminium mig is easy enough on thicker aluminum, but it's difficult on thin aluminum even at lower settings, because the purpose of a spool gun is to provide higher wire feed speeds required to weld aluminum as well as high travel speed.


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## CWret (Sep 14, 2022)

Fun story:
When I was at university, my roommate was in 1st-year mechanical engineering. They had to take a night course lab during their first semester -"Introduction to welding and machining" (3 hours a week for 4 months).
The first 2 months was machine shop - second 2 months was welding.
Each night there was an hour (or so) of demonstration/instruction followed by hands-on fun stuff. 
50% of the marks for the course were based on attendance.
For each lab, my roommate would tell me who was absent and at roll call, I'd be that person. Double win - the absent guy got credit for being there & I got to learn some cool stuff.
So for 2 months, I learned how to use a lathe.
With 60 students in the class, I thought i hide.
Start of the second half  - welding - I showed up as John Doe (or whoever) - before roll call the lab tech saw me and said "who are you tonight?" That ended my free classes and the closest I ever got to formal welding instruction.


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## phaxtris (Sep 14, 2022)

i just looked up the price on one of those mm220's , i cant believe how expensive name brand machines have gotten! 2 years ago you could buy a ranger 305 for that kinda money!

My thoughts on mig aluminum.....its easy until you try to get a cwb ticket for it....over 50% fail rate....the weld looks good but then inside there is always some little inclusion, gas coverage issue, or lack of fusion at a stop/start, plus the fumes are horrible for you...terrible, terrible process

i think i might have the laziest plasma cutter mounting setup, i have mine literally hanging from the ceiling in the middle of the garage on 2 ladder hooks, with the torch/ground coiled up on another hook....ive had that arrangement going for the last 6-7 years


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## Tom O (Sep 15, 2022)

I just wheel my plasma cutter under the welding table when it is not in use.


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## Tom Kitta (Sep 15, 2022)

Everlast 200 DX
Lincoln invertec 350
Lincoln 175 plus mig
Chinese plasma cutter

I just got the MIG - so far so good, learning how to weld with MIG.


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## digitalbilly (Oct 3, 2022)

i want one of these for my home shop


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## Chris Cramer (Oct 3, 2022)

I'm not sure how well one of those would perform, but it looks like you would get the most bang for your buck out of only $1000. However the lower capability of each process as well as the plasma cutting, would not really pay off for me buy how far I am planning on taking my welding and cutting skills.


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## phaxtris (Oct 3, 2022)

What are the 7 processes? Mig, Tig, stick, plasma, Make me a sandwich, hold my beer, and ??


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## Chris Cramer (Oct 3, 2022)

There are 5 processes, it does gmaw, fcaw, dc tig, stick, and plasma cutting.


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## CWret (Oct 4, 2022)

In addition to the Chris’s five, it also shows that it does AC TIG (for aluminum). I’m guessing that the manufacturer indicated seven because they are including the built in plasma air compressor. That machine has an awesome spec sheet but that’s a lot of eggs in a Jack of all trades basket. I have not heard of that brand. It will be very interesting to see an independent product review, not just functionality but also service and reliability.


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## phaxtris (Oct 4, 2022)

@Chris Cramer & @CWret it was a joke regarding the misleading marketing


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## StevSmar (Oct 6, 2022)

CWret said:


> Start of the second half - welding - I showed up as John Doe (or whoever) - before roll call the lab tech saw me and said "who are you tonight?" That ended my free classes


That’s too funny. Wonder if they would have let you stay if you stopped being John Doe and just hid in the class.

I have a made-in-Manitoba stick welder that has plugs to change the AC amperage. I suspect that this is good enough for what I currently need, which is the occasional bit of welding. Is DC stick that much better that I should look at a new welder? Eventually, I would like to try TIG but that’s currently several years away.

I do like collecting shiny new toys though, however I think I’m currently more likely to purchase a track-saw (I don’t have room for a table saw) than a welder.


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## CWret (Oct 6, 2022)

Stick is fine for most home / farm  / construction welding. It’s main limit is that it can’t do thin material (less than 1/8”)


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## Susquatch (Oct 6, 2022)

CWret said:


> Stick is fine for most home / farm  / construction welding. It’s main limit is that it can’t do thin material (less than 1/8”)



Another member showed me how to do thin TIG welding by stitching.

Could you not stitch thinner sheet like say 1/16 with an arc welder too?


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## CWret (Oct 6, 2022)

Yes it’ll do it, but tricky and not ideal. Like lots of things home hobby guys do. You can also put an undersized end mill or drill bit in a R8 collet- like someone once said.


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## StevSmar (Oct 6, 2022)

CWret said:


> Stick is fine for most home / farm  / construction welding. It’s main limit is that it can’t do thin material (less than 1/8”)


I wish I’d known that before I welded 2mm steel, I thought I just sucked- which is probably true too…


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## Susquatch (Oct 6, 2022)

CWret said:


> Yes it’ll do it, but tricky and not ideal. Like lots of things home hobby guys do. You can also put an undersized end mill or drill bit in a R8 collet- like someone once said.



I laughed at that. But Ya, that puts it in good perspective for me. 

Heck, I don't even like cranking down on an ER collet *WITHIN* its range! 

But when you weld as poorly as I do....... Almost anything that sticks together is a big success.


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## Dabbler (Oct 6, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Could you not stitch thinner sheet like say 1/16 with an arc welder too?


Do it with my Miller 250 - just turn the voltage and feed waaaay down.


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## CWret (Oct 6, 2022)

To clarify-
1 - I'm a self-taught welder and far from knowledgeable about welding limitations
2 - I think we are talking about stick welding here (Shielded Metal Arc Welding or SMAW) not wire feed (MIG)
3 - a practical minimum thickness for normal stick (SMAG) welding is 1/8" material
4 - using the smallest electrodes + lowest machine voltage + experience & practice --you can get good results stick welding 1/16 " thick material (a continuous weld bead, not just stitch welding). But to clarify - this comment applies to fillet or lap joints - not to butt joints. Butt joints on thin materials are very difficult with stick welding.


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## Degen (Oct 7, 2022)

Recently I met a fellow that was a retired welder for CN Railways, who was taught by his dad.

All he welds with is Stick.  This includes thin sheet metal (ie car body panels, including the super thin stuff we have today) and Aluminium (didn't believe that at first and had to double check after he left).

It comes down to the skill of the welder pure and simple.  Some have the knack, some don't.

I may have the knack but definitely not the skill so I'll stick with TIG for almost everything and try Stick for the heavy dirty stuff.


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## historicalarms (Oct 7, 2022)

Ive watched my old man (self taught welder) weld thin stuff (farm & construction equipment hoods & such) with a 450 amp Hobart ( from U.S Navy war surplus) turned waaaay down and using common steel clothes hanger for rod....I could never get the hang of it but watched him many times weld a perfect bead with that outfit.


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## CWret (Oct 7, 2022)

Experience is so very important to continually improve your skill. 
That CN welder’s ability didn’t come easy and are very impressive. I’d say he qualifies as an expert stick welder. For most of us mortals- stick welding 1/16”materials would be an amazing achievement. 

Time and money are both assets that you can spend (or waste). 
It takes time and money to become smart enough to be an expert in your field. 
A good friend of mine (that was considered an expert in his field) would say” I don’t know how smart I can afford to get”


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## Dan Dubeau (Oct 7, 2022)

6013 rod is great for thin sheet metal.   The numbers actually mean something and there are many different rods for many different purposes, positions and materials.
https://workshopinsider.com/a-guide-to-6010-6011-6013-and-7018-welding-rods/

I have some 3/32 6013 that came with my buzz box that works great on thin sheet metal.  Welding thin stuff out in the yard, is much easier with my long stick leads, than the short whip on my mig.  I don't have space in my shop to bring large projects in.  No shielding gas issues either.  It's a handy arrow to have in your quiver whenever the needs arises, and IMO really isn't that hard if you have the right rod, machine setup, and fundamental skills (properly observing the puddle and it's behavior as you weld no matter the rod/wire or process).


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## phaxtris (Oct 7, 2022)

I don't leave Praxair/lide/alpine gas with less than 1000$ worth of rod every few months, so I have some experience when it comes to stick welding

I 60% agree with @CWret, stick is not anywhere near ideal for thin materials, your not going to want to weld a fender on your Buick with it, but welding say a mower deck and all you have is a stick welder, sure, 3/32 or smaller (yes they do make 1/16 rod), cruise, and don't get greedy. You can be sure to have plenty of penetration at the least.

That being said....I would never recommend a hobbyist buy a stick welder for his first or only machine, even if it's cheaper....the cost of rod alone will destroy any savings (rod has more than doubled in price in the last 5 years), MIG is really the more useful and go to process for most garage projects

But hey, use what you got, and if you already have a DC stick welder....you're a torch and bottle of gas away from having Tig (yes any DC stick welder is a Tig welder)


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## CWret (Oct 7, 2022)

Good comments. 
I’ve never tried that small rod - any thin stuff i tried with stick was a total failure- but i have MIG and TIG so i never really worked at improving that skill.


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## Dan Dubeau (Oct 7, 2022)

6013 rod is great for thin sheet metal.   The numbers actually mean something and there are many different rods for many different purposes.
https://workshopinsider.com/a-guide-to-6010-6011-6013-and-7018-welding-rods/

I have some 3/32 6013 that came with my buzz box that works great on thin sheet metal.  Welding thin stuff out in the yard, is much easier with my long stick leads, than the short whip on my mig.  No shielding gas issues either.  I don't have space in my shop to bring large projects in.   It's a handy arrow to have in your quiver whenever the needs arises, and IMO really isn't that hard if you have the right rod, machine setup, and fundamental skills (properly observing the puddle and it's behavior as you weld no matter the rod/wire or process).


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## StevSmar (Oct 8, 2022)

Coming back to welding after a 40 year break… I’m finding my latest difficulty is that I can no longer hold the welding rod anywhere near as steady as when I was learning as a teenager. Now I actually have to “make myself comfortable”.

I can see that eventually (maybe even soon…) , I’ll need to make up some form of contraption to support my hand that I can slide it along.


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## 140mower (Oct 8, 2022)

StevSmar said:


> Coming back to welding after a 40 year break… I’m finding my latest difficulty is that I can no longer hold the welding rod anywhere near as steady as when I was learning as a teenager. Now I actually have to “make myself comfortable”.
> 
> I can see that eventually (maybe even soon…) , I’ll need to make up some form of contraption to support my hand that I can slide it along.


It sucks getting old doesn't it...... Now the "weave" comes natural and puddle control has a whole new meaning......


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