# Magnum 7" X 12" bandsaw from KMS Tools



## John Conroy (Apr 8, 2017)

I was in KMS last week when their Magnum 7 X 12 band saw was on sale for $1099. While I was looking at the saws another fellow came along who was thinking of buying the same saw.  We got together with the assistant manager and asked for the best deal he would give us for the 2 saws they had left in stock. We both wound up buying one for $950 including a spare Starrett blade. After I got it uncrated I cut a slice off one of the 4" 4140 logs and then a 6.75" log as well. With the blade speed at the second slowest setting, using the factory 8 TPI blade and no coolant the 4" piece took 11 minutes and the 6.75" piece took 34 minutes. I monitored the temperature of the motor and gear box when cutting the big piece and they both got to a peak temperature of 120 degrees F after about 30 minutes. Warm to the touch but not hot. The only thing I don't like about the saw is the wheels, there are no casters so it only wants to roll in a straight line. You have to drag it sideways to turn it.  I had the parts on hand to correct this flaw. A couple of years ago I pulled an old automotive floor jack from the scrap bin at work and salvaged some parts from it including the rear mounted casters which were mounted in nice cast iron brackets to the side plates of the jack. I cleaned up the casters and brackets and gave them a fresh coat of paint and mounted them to the sides of the vise end of the saw. I used some 1/4" thick re-enforcing plates on the inside of the saw body and also threaded both ends of the original 5/8" axle from the saw wheels and installed it as a strut to resist the bending forces from casters since they are mounted further outboard than the originals and have no axle connecting them. It rolls around very easily now and I may replace the 2 other plastic wheels with the cast iron ones that came from the floor jack. I'm really happy with how the saw performs, it cut through those big chunks of steel with out breaking a sweat.


----------



## PeterT (Apr 8, 2017)

Nice setup & some serious log hogging there! I had a similar thought for my castor wheels one day, it could be improved. They are in line so more difficult to rotate the saw out of the corner when cutting. they have these drop down bolts like yours that I guess are intended to act as permanent feet? If so, doesn't really suit my needs. Do you think those swivel castors with the lock-in-position foot lever would be a good idea? I doubt the wheels have to be too large. I saw a set but they had a vertical axle, so not quite right for my existing brackets.

What's the wood in the frame for? (last pic)


----------



## John Conroy (Apr 8, 2017)

You need heavy duty wheels, I was thinking that as I set up the 550 lb log for cutting. The floor jack wheels are perfect but have no locking mechanism but so far that hasn't been a problem. In the bottom picture, you can see through to the floor from inside the saw housing. It does look like wood in the picture though.


----------



## DPittman (Apr 8, 2017)

Good report on the saw.  I'm wishing I would have been with you when you bought it and made it group of three.  I think  going to be buying one of those same variants of that saw here in the next while.  $950 is a good deal. 
Thanks for the info and pictures


----------



## DPittman (Apr 8, 2017)

Maybe we can do a group buy on bandsaws?! Lol


----------



## John Conroy (Apr 8, 2017)

The other fellow who bought one and I actually met at the Busy Bee store before we went to KMS. The sales guy at Busy Bee would not consider a price match to the KMS sale price of $1099. He told us that the Magnum saw was inferior and that it was not made in Taiwan like the Craftex. Lucky for us that he was a dickhead because we hopped in our trucks and drove 6 blocks to KMS and got a much better deal. As far as I can see the Magnum saw is identical to the Craftex and as you can see in the picture above, it is made in Taiwan. The assistant manager at KMS was friendly and easy to deal with. Both of us probably would have bought a saw even without the further discount from the sale price. We were the only 2 customers in the Busy Bee store but when we got to KMS it was super busy. It's easy to understand why.


----------



## Janger (Apr 8, 2017)

Updated performance table on bandsaw cutting. John C. I've got your two cuts in here. Do you think the cutting speed on your saw would improve with coolant and more downforce/speed setting? What 'number' on the hydraulic ram did you have it set at? @kylemp care to add a result as I think you have been able to get a lot more performance with a small saw than the rest of us so far. Be interesting to know what you have managed. As good as Mike's work saw 6.5 sq/in per min?


----------



## kylemp (Apr 8, 2017)

I'm going add a result.. but not with that saw. I was going to post this under the 4140 thread but...
I bought a new saw.
Picked up an Ellis 1800 from the auction the other day, out the door it was just shy of 1100, but I am tired of fighting with stock cutting.. its kind of the first step in any project.
If you want to look it up: http://www.trick-tools.com/Ellis_1800_Dual_Mitering_Head_Bandsaw_1800_ELL_2164 or http://www.ellissaw.com/mitre-band-saw-overview/1800-mitre-band-saw/
Specs are:

1 hp motor
Miters 50 degrees left and right
Hydraulic head down feed
Cuts 11 inch round at 90 degrees, 9 inch at 45 degrees
Dry cutting saw
•*Blade Width (inches):* 1
•*Blade Length (inch):* 132
•*Blade Thickness (inches):* .035
•*Number of Speeds:* 3
•*Speed(s):* 70, 135, 250 feet per minute
•*Mitering Range:* 50 degrees, left and right
•*Round Solid Capacity 90 Deg (inches):* 11
•*Round Solid Capacity 45 Deg (inches):* 9
•*Round Tube Capacity 90 Deg (inches):* 11
•*Round Tube Capacity 45 Deg (inches):* 9
•*Square Tube Capacity 90 Deg (inches):* 10
•*Square Tube Capacity 45 Deg (inches):* 6
•*Rectangle Tube Capacity 90 Deg (inches):* 10 x 11
•*Rectangle Tube Capacity 45 Deg (inches):* 6 x 11
•*Weight (pounds):* 640
•*Dimensions (LxWxH):* 66 x 29 x 47

Today I got it on a mobile base and got to try cutting with the blade that came with it. It needs some cleanup but I'm really happy so far.
The cuts I did were 4" ish and they were complete in around 3 min +/- a few seconds. Once I get the 6-3/4 steel outta my truck I will throw one on there and see how it does for cutting. I still intend on adding powered downfeed, not just holding back the blade with hydraulic rams, as well as running a more appropriate blade.. something in the 3 - 5 TPI range for this type of thing.

If you guys want I can see what I can get out of the small one, but I can tell you I was able to do 5" x 3" 4140 solid in 16 min.

I'll upload some pictures over the next few days, and once I get the larger stock through I will let you know those results.


----------



## Janger (Apr 8, 2017)

That's a pretty nice saw, $5K CAD new for 1100, good purchase. You were cutting 4+ sq inch / minute. Heres the new stats.


----------



## John Conroy (Apr 9, 2017)

I think my saw would cut a lot faster with more blade speed. I'll test it that way next time. The blade was not even warm after cutting the big round. I'm not going to use coolant as I don't want the mess that goes with it. I cut off a 1 foot chunk of the big round thinking it would be light enough to lift easily but I think it must be about 200 lbs. I have the hydraulic lowering ram set to lower very slowly but I don't think that has any effect of the cutting speed as the head lowers much slower than that when cutting. I plan to experiment with that also.

Kylemp that Ellis saw looks great and I think you got a great deal. At 640 lbs it about twice as heavy as the one I bought. It should last a lifetime for a hobby user. Nice score.


----------



## DPittman (Apr 9, 2017)

John Conroy said:


> The other fellow who bought one and I actually met at the Busy Bee store before we went to KMS. The sales guy at Busy Bee would not consider a price match to the KMS sale price of $1099. He told us that the Magnum saw was inferior and that it was not made in Taiwan like the Craftex. Lucky for us that he was a dickhead because we hopped in our trucks and drove 6 blocks to KMS and got a much better deal. As far as I can see the Magnum saw is identical to the Craftex and as you can see in the picture above, it is made in Taiwan. The assistant manager at KMS was friendly and easy to deal with. Both of us probably would have bought a saw even without the further discount from the sale price. We were the only 2 customers in the Busy Bee store but when we got to KMS it was super busy. It's easy to understand why.



Well your experience at Busy Bee is about what I would expect and have experienced myself.  I'm usually disappointed with them although I do own a " Craftex" lathe and drill press along with a bunch of smaller tooling stuff.  They have the exact same Asian machinery available at many other places and unless they are cheaper I can find no reason to shop there. Their service certainly is NOT worth the premium price they seem to charge for most things.

I was going to call them also and see if they would price match but after your experience I can see I shouldn't waste my time. 

Apparently the owner of Busy Bee Tools and Grizzly Tools in the states are relatives, which is somewhat surprising as Grizzly is known for good customer service and having parts on hand.  Complete opposite of BB.

Don


----------



## John Conroy (Apr 9, 2017)

In the edmonton store there are only a couple of sales guys who know anything about metal working tools and they are both arrogant. If that was my store I'd fire both of those asshats. It's the attitude of those 2 guys that drives customers away in Edmonton.


----------



## kylemp (Apr 9, 2017)

John Conroy said:


> I think my saw would cut a lot faster with more blade speed. I'll test it that way next time. The blade was not even warm after cutting the big round. I'm not going to use coolant as I don't want the mess that goes with it. I cut off a 1 foot chunk of the big round thinking it would be light enough to lift easily but I think it must be about 200 lbs. I have the hydraulic lowering ram set to lower very slowly but I don't think that has any effect of the cutting speed as the head lowers much slower than that when cutting. I plan to experiment with that also.
> 
> Kylemp that Ellis saw looks great and I think you got a great deal. At 640 lbs it about twice as heavy as the one I bought. It should last a lifetime for a hobby user. Nice score.


I'm not 100 percent sure but I don't hinkle that you want any heat at all on your blade when cutting. What kind of blades are you running, for solid material the most aggressive blade you can get your hands on would be best.
As for your downfeed not being at the same rate when cutting - that's normal. Big industrial saws are either hydraulic or pneumatic and they apply pressure down as well to keep the blade at a semi consistent rate, there has to be some variability to it as when you reach the centre of the stock you have to travel slower obviously but they keep a specific amount of pressure on the blade to cut effectively.. again this becomes an issue of horsepower. Higher blade speeds would produce more heat and increase the chance of blade bounce so be a little careful when bringing it up.


----------



## Dabbler (Apr 9, 2017)

When I bought my lathe from BB in 1981 I met the two brothers (their revised history video says they are cousins) and the guy who bankrolled them.  The one partner who believed in quality had a falling out with them and moved to the US and started Grizzly.  Until around 1990 they shared purchaes from Taiwan and a few from China.  That cooperation ended badly and now Grizzly sells aggressively to Canada.  Unfortunately they are exclusive with a not-to-be named courier company that I won't do any business with.  I pick up all my Grizz orders personally when I go to Bellingham to visit friends.

Starting in 2015, I've been using Shars more than Grizzly.  You have to be careful with what you buy from them, but they will ship by truck if asked, and some of their stuff is far superior to Grizz and BB.

I'm back from BC but the cutting test will have to wait until I get my new machine off my truck.


----------



## kylemp (Apr 23, 2017)

Janger said:


> View attachment 1587 That's a pretty nice saw, $5K CAD new for 1100, good purchase. You were cutting 4+ sq inch / minute. Heres the new stats.


I thought this was under the 4140 thread. I did my cuts with the new 2/3 varipitch blade. 6.75 inch took 14.5 min. It's possible that could come down with some tweaking but after blowing up one blade I'm not planning to push it too much. I am planning on putting pneumatic downfeed on it so I can get a better constant down force but that's not going to happen any time too soon.


----------



## Janger (Apr 23, 2017)

The 4140 and this bandsaw thread have gotten mixed. 

How does this hydraulic approach work? Does it maintain a pressure with some sort of control so the cutting rate varies depending on material thickness? And how would the cylinder be mounted? In the same place as the feed rate cylinder but it would pull instead of restrict down motion?


----------



## kylemp (Apr 23, 2017)

It's the same system you have on your saw except instead of relying on the weight of the saw it forces it down. It stops the saw from being able to bounce as it is applying fairly decent force down on the blade and relying on the blade tension and saw horsepower to make the cut.


----------



## John Conroy (Sep 2, 2018)

Since the original pictures have been lost in the Photobucket mess im going to post a couple showing the Magnum 7 X 12 saw in action. It is still functioning as new and i use it quite a bit. I added a plate so it can be used as a vertical saw also. One like it is optional from KMS but i made this one from a 8 X 8" plate of 12" steel and milled a groove for mitre gage i made from 3/4" X 3/16" stainless and a piece of 1" angle iron.


----------



## Janger (Sep 2, 2018)

Hey John that’s a great mod. The flimsy vertical table that came with my saw attaches to the blade guide. I’m not sure such a beefy plate would work for me but I love the mitre guide. Post another picture of how yours is supported from below?

Incra has a nice mitre guage with precision stops. @CalgaryPT Peter has one. https://m.kmstools.com/incra-5-precision-mitre-gauge-2468

@johnnielsen showed me an article on another approach. You make a folding bench to sit on which is clamped in the saw vise. It then has a vertical table attached with hinges for cutting on. I’ll see what I can find and post.

Edit : here we go- similar to this

https://www.instructables.com/id/Vertical-Bandsaw-Table/

In the other article I was reading they did not use big L shaped supports. Instead it had hinges so the whole thing folded flat when not in use. Easier to store.


----------



## kevin.decelles (Sep 3, 2018)

@Janger John, you got the direct drive model correct? If yes, any feedback on that vs belt drive?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Janger (Sep 3, 2018)

kevin.decelles said:


> @Janger John, you got the direct drive model correct? If yes, any feedback on that vs belt drive?Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The gear change model is very convenient. I will switch it for aluminum regular steel and stainless. On my old saw I never changed the belt too much hassle.


----------



## PeterT (Sep 3, 2018)

John's saw might be different than mine, but judging by the familiar bolt pattern might be +/- similar to these offshore types. They support the table by a block which accommodates one of the blade bearings sets. You can see the 2 tapped holes on upper surface. The thing I don't care for is its a relatively small surface area to support a big table. Not so much rigidity but alignment. I was already contemplating making a new block but then realized in swing down chop saw mode (with table off) it has to clear the edge of the vise & not bottom out prematurely. That's primarily why its the size that it is. My table is actually pretty rigid for stamped sheet metal, maybe 3mm thickness with 90-deg bent over edges on 2 sides. But it has no real control to ensure it is square to the blade plane as a function of bolt/hole clearance in the 2 screws. A thicker & more rigid table like John's & fence or even a reliable outside edge would be a big improvement. If there was a way to tweak it into alignment or better yet preserve alignment that would be bonus. Maybe if they had alignment dowels & the bolts were just to secure it.

I never thought of an independent table/seat like the link. I must admit I sit on mine when I'm on it for a while because its otherwise at an awkward height & orientation.


----------



## PeterT (Sep 3, 2018)

Here is another idea I had (yet to be acted on). I had some repetitive small fussy bits to cut on the table. Some were tool steel or thicker aluminum so you still have to take your time cutting. Meanwhile your fingers are getting cramped & the metal is getting hot. So you give it the water dunk, now its wet & slippery even with welder gloves. And you have to get back in the kerf where you left off.... you get the idea. 

So I was going to get one of these hardwood clamps & just grasp the part. It is self squaring on the table. Mostly it provides a better place for your hands for more leverage & control .


----------



## Janger (Sep 3, 2018)

PeterT said:


> Here is another idea I had (yet to be acted on). I had some repetitive small fussy bits to cut on the table. Some were tool steel or thicker aluminum so you still have to take your time cutting. Meanwhile your fingers are getting cramped & the metal is getting hot. So you give it the water dunk, now its wet & slippery even with welder gloves. And you have to get back in the kerf where you left off.... you get the idea.
> 
> So I was going to get one of these hardwood clamps & just grasp the part. It is self squaring on the table. Mostly it provides a better place for your hands for more leverage & control .


Good idea Peter. $5.99? From where?


----------



## Bofobo (Sep 3, 2018)

Id bet kms has some john


----------



## PeterT (Sep 3, 2018)

Various sizes & other clamps too.
https://www.blackrocktools.com/advancedsearch/result/?q=clamp

I ordered a power tool from them once at a good price & it was free shipping, but I think there is a minimum$.


----------



## PeterT (Sep 3, 2018)

Lee Valley carries but looks like their own Guccibag brand
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=69825&cat=1,43838,47843


----------



## John Conroy (Sep 3, 2018)

You're right Peter. The bolt holes are 1/4" nc thread so it is actually pretty robust. I used tapered head screws so alignment is the same every time.













I started by squaring up the plate in the mill. It's a piece that i got from Al in Cochrane when he was getting ready to move. Then i set it upright in the saw and cut the slit for the blade and made the measurements for the blt holes off the slit. The pictures show i set it up and i slit it 1/2 way across.





The picture shows the finished part but this was the first operation after squaring the plate. Since the screws are always going to stay with the plate i countersunk the holes on the bottom and put o-rings over them to keep them from getting lost.









It stores in the bottom of the saw cabinet.





I have one of those fancy Incra mitre gages for my table saw but it is 5/16" thick so i couldnt mill the fence deep enough to use it on a 1/2" thick plate.


----------



## Janger (Sep 3, 2018)

Nice build John. So the blade guide is sufficient to hold up the heavy plate?


----------



## John Conroy (Sep 3, 2018)

It seems very solid


----------



## Janger (Sep 3, 2018)

I think I have another item for the to-do shop tooling list.


----------



## Tom Kitta (Sep 17, 2018)

Looks like standard belt drive with a worm gear in the metal box thing - ribbed next to the motor.


----------

