# New Project - AXA Multifix



## thestelster (Jul 30, 2022)

New project in progress.  Don't let the cat out of the bag
@Susquatch


----------



## Susquatch (Jul 30, 2022)

thestelster said:


> New project in progress.  Don't let the cat out of the bag
> @Susquatch



Your secret is safe with me......


----------



## Chip Maker (Jul 30, 2022)

1 x 3 x 6 blocks ???


----------



## thestelster (Jul 30, 2022)

Chip Maker said:


> 1 x 3 x 6 blocks ???


Nope.


----------



## Chip Maker (Jul 30, 2022)

Flux capacitor ???


----------



## thestelster (Jul 30, 2022)

Chip Maker said:


> Flux capacitor ???


No, sorry.


----------



## Canadium (Jul 30, 2022)

A gun!


----------



## 6.5 Fan (Jul 30, 2022)

A action for a rifle? Not thick enough unless a falling block rimfire. Oh so many possibilities.


----------



## whydontu (Jul 30, 2022)

very precise meat tenderizer?


----------



## thestelster (Jul 30, 2022)

Step 1.


----------



## phaxtris (Jul 30, 2022)

the oil makes it looks like you murdered that chuck of steel


----------



## thestelster (Jul 31, 2022)

Step 2:
-HR steelplate 
-2" indexable face mill
-850rpm
-app. 9ipm
-DOC:  0.050"


----------



## Canadium (Jul 31, 2022)

Maybe some kind of supersized 1-2-3 block? A 2-4-8 block?


----------



## thestelster (Jul 31, 2022)

Canadium said:


> Maybe some kind of supersized 1-2-3 block? A 2-4-8 block?


No, sorry.  I already have a pair of 246 blocks.


----------



## Proxule (Jul 31, 2022)

Gyro stabilized fins for elon musks rockets.


----------



## thestelster (Jul 31, 2022)

Done for the day.  Plus put in a 2 hour bike ride!  Now to make dinner and have a cold beer.  Not necessarily in that order!


----------



## Susquatch (Aug 1, 2022)

thestelster said:


> Done for the day.  Plus put in a 2 hour bike ride!  Now to make dinner and have a cold beer.  Not necessarily in that order!



You are quite the photographer too you know!


----------



## Canadium (Aug 1, 2022)

He didn't say it wasn't a gun! I'm guessing it's a copy of a HIMARS designed to destroy blackbirds in @Susquatch 's cornfields.


----------



## Dabbler (Aug 1, 2022)

I'm going to guess QCTP tool holders.


----------



## thestelster (Aug 1, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> You are quite the photographer too you know!


Thank you. I use to dabble in the art.  Taking product shots of stuff I customized, or traipsing through Algonquin Park, or Banff, or local parks.


----------



## thestelster (Aug 1, 2022)

Dabbler said:


> I'm going to guess QCTP tool holders.


Quick change tool post, I do not have.  Tool holders, I need not build.


----------



## Susquatch (Aug 1, 2022)

thestelster said:


> Thank you. I use to dabble in the art.  Taking product shots of stuff I customized, or traipsing through Algonquin Park, or Banff, or local parks.



You are welcome. Your talent shows through very clearly to me.


----------



## thestelster (Aug 1, 2022)

Canadium said:


> He didn't say it wasn't a gun! I'm guessing it's a copy of a HIMARS designed to destroy blackbirds in @Susquatch 's cornfields.


Haha!  Maybe....no.


----------



## Dabbler (Aug 1, 2022)

Very clearly I missed your hint.  It is a device to stop the cat from getting out of the bag.


----------



## YotaBota (Aug 1, 2022)

You're making chips, big friggin chips, lots and lots of chips. lol


----------



## jcdammeyer (Aug 1, 2022)

I give up.


----------



## Canadium (Aug 2, 2022)

thestelster said:


> Haha!  Maybe....no.



Ah come on! It qualifies as a HIgh Mobility Artillary System!


----------



## thestelster (Aug 2, 2022)

jcdammeyer said:


> I give up.


Patience my friend.   This may take a little while.


----------



## thestelster (Aug 5, 2022)

2"OD Uddeholm Ramax HH, stainless pre-hardened to 350HB.  600rpm@0.005ipr, 0.100" depth of cut.  I really have to get a chip guard, they burn!!  Ouch!!


----------



## 140mower (Aug 5, 2022)

Not sure what it is yet, but I am pretty sure that I am going to like it.


----------



## thestelster (Aug 6, 2022)

Well, she finally bit the biscuit.  Bit off more than she could chew.  Off to the tool graveyard in the sky.


----------



## Susquatch (Aug 6, 2022)

thestelster said:


> Well, she finally bit the biscuit.  Bit off more than she could chew.  Off to the tool graveyard in the sky.



That's too bad the holder got pooched too.


----------



## thestelster (Aug 6, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> That's too bad the holder got pooched too.


Yeah, they probably take the most abuse of any cutting tool.


----------



## thestelster (Aug 9, 2022)

It's a little boring.  1.261"


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 10, 2022)

Degen said:


> Heres and update, now you can likely guess (its also had a few more operation)
> 
> View attachment 25475


Hey there, you might want to start a new thread for this


----------



## Susquatch (Aug 10, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> Hey there, you might want to start a new thread for this



For those wondering. At his request, I have moved @Degens part of this post to his own new thread here:









						Degen's New Project
					

Ok, going to match you @thestelster.




					canadianhobbymetalworkers.com


----------



## thestelster (Aug 11, 2022)

thestelster said:


> Well, she finally bit the biscuit.  Bit off more than she could chew.  Off to the tool graveyard in the sky.


Well, today I received my new parting blade, and inserts.  Can't wait to try it out.


----------



## Susquatch (Aug 11, 2022)

thestelster said:


> Well, today I received my new parting blade, and inserts.  Can't wait to try it out.



Woah! That's a serious looking cutoff tool! 

Can't wait for the test cuts either!


----------



## Dabbler (Aug 12, 2022)

nice  kit!


----------



## thestelster (Aug 22, 2022)

I received a package today


----------



## Susquatch (Aug 22, 2022)

Hmmmmm...... I wonder what it could be...... LOL!


----------



## 140mower (Aug 22, 2022)

We 


Susquatch said:


> Hmmmmm...... I wonder what it could be...... LOL!


We need a bird flipping emoji for those of us not in the secret circle....


----------



## Janger (Aug 22, 2022)

140mower said:


> We
> 
> We need a bird flipping emoji for those of us not in the secret circle....


I’ll see if we can get a bird flip when we upgrade.  probably not. What I will do though is see why the fancy text editor with emojis no longer works on iOS.


----------



## PeterT (Aug 22, 2022)

Comes from Germany... multiple, identical boxes.... If only this darn tracking number would register


----------



## DPittman (Aug 22, 2022)

Ooo


PeterT said:


> Comes from Germany... multiple, identical boxes.... If only this darn tracking number would register
> 
> View attachment 25743


You're a smart cookie Peter! Good detective work. I want you on my team.


----------



## RobinHood (Aug 22, 2022)

Here is the originating address in Germany:

48268 Greven
North Rhine-Westphalia
Germany

Was sent on Aug 2nd. Took a trip on AC 841 on Aug 11th (I think) from FRA to YYZ, where it cleared customs. They both x-rayed it and ETD checked the package before it went aboard.


----------



## 140mower (Aug 22, 2022)

RobinHood said:


> Here is the originating address in Germany:
> 
> 48268 Greven
> North Rhine-Westphalia
> ...


....yet it still got here... Hmmm, so much for uranium...


----------



## jcdammeyer (Aug 22, 2022)

That's just the postal code and the city.  The postal code covers and area of 142.6 sq. km.  So the clue is equivalent to saying the inside of the box is brown.


----------



## Susquatch (Aug 23, 2022)

Janger said:


> I’ll see if we can get a bird flip when we upgrade.  probably not. What I will do though is see why the fancy text editor with emojis no longer works on iOS.



I like the bird..... EVEN if it's aimed in my direction ......  LOL! 

But there are LOTS of emojii's we need...... I frequently find myself having to explain why I chose the one I did because it isn't really very appropriate. Can I make a list?


----------



## Tom O (Aug 23, 2022)

RobinHood said:


> Here is the originating address in Germany:
> 
> 48268 Greven
> North Rhine-Westphalia
> ...


I’ve no idea I googled the address  that shows a website in German.


----------



## thestelster (Aug 23, 2022)

Tom O said:


> I’ve no idea I googled the address  that shows a website in German.
> View attachment 25763


Cool shirts though!


----------



## Dabbler (Aug 23, 2022)

140mower said:


> We need a bird flipping emoji



@140mower you could always use


----------



## Tom O (Aug 23, 2022)

Yeah but would you wear it out somewhere knowing that some people have never forgot about the Crusades? Keep in mind we are at 94 oops 96 on the shooting/stabbing death chart here in Calgary.
(it reminds me of the kick me signs.)


----------



## Tom O (Aug 23, 2022)

Dabbler said:


> @140mower you could always use
> 
> 
> View attachment 25764


Naw it wouldn’t catch on with paper straws


----------



## jcdammeyer (Aug 23, 2022)

Tom O said:


> I’ve no idea I googled the address  that shows a website in German.


The address is incomplete.  That location is just city hall.


----------



## 140mower (Aug 23, 2022)

Dabbler said:


> @140mower you could always use
> 
> 
> View attachment 25764


Or an audio clip that says "PISS OFF" in a heavy English accent, Monty Python style as you scroll by......  I reckon I might hear that one myself quite frequently.....


----------



## Susquatch (Aug 23, 2022)

jcdammeyer said:


> That's just the postal code and the city.  The postal code covers and area of 142.6 sq. km.  So the clue is equivalent to saying the inside of the box is brown.



Come on guys......

How about looking at all those boxes.... 

Sorry @thestelster , Devil made me say that....


----------



## Tom O (Aug 24, 2022)

97


----------



## thestelster (Aug 24, 2022)

Ok. Finally.  The reveal.


----------



## Susquatch (Aug 24, 2022)

thestelster said:


> Ok. Finally.  The reveal.



Wow! Nice wood! 

What's all that shiny stuff in front of it?


----------



## YYCHM (Aug 24, 2022)

thestelster said:


> Ok. Finally.  The reveal.



What's this got to do with your new QCTP?


----------



## thestelster (Aug 24, 2022)

YYCHM said:


> What's this got to do with your new QCTP?


That was for the new t-plate to get bolted into the compound slide.


----------



## thestelster (Aug 25, 2022)

The centre bolt is finished.  Thread: 3/4"-10.  I just have to bore open up the top piece to 0.750".  Tomorrow morning.  Time to feed the dog, and make dinner for us.


----------



## whydontu (Aug 25, 2022)

thestelster said:


> The centre bolt is finished.  Thread: 3/4"-10.  I just have to bore open up the top piece to 0.750".  Tomorrow morning.  Time to feed the dog, and make dinner for us.


not to be picky, but the barrel in photo 308 is upside down. The holes in the barrel are for a dowel pin to lock the barrel to the t-nut.


----------



## thestelster (Aug 25, 2022)

Hi @whydontu

Actually those holes for the anti-rotation pin go  all the way through.  This is the bottom of the barrel.


----------



## whydontu (Aug 25, 2022)

thestelster said:


> Hi @whydontu
> 
> Actually those holes for the anti-rotation pin go  all the way through.  This is the bottom of the barrel.


I stand corrected. On my Swiss multifix the anti-rotation holes are only on the bottom.


----------



## thestelster (Aug 26, 2022)

Ok.  Top piece bored out.  All good so far.  

I now have to remove the compound slide.  Bolt the new t-plate to the compound, mill and surface grind the top of the compound.  Basically, converting the US/British method of attaching a tool post (i e. T-slot and T-plate), to the European method, fixed bolt.


----------



## Susquatch (Aug 26, 2022)

thestelster said:


> All good so far.



No it's not! You have a serious problem waiting to bite you! Your shop has critters in it! Something is peeking out from under your tool post! And I think I see another one through the crack in that wood! 

Best to go get your live traps and then ship them to BC!


----------



## thestelster (Aug 26, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> No it's not! You have a serious problem waiting to bite you! Your shop has critters in it! Something is peeking out from under your tool post! And I think I see another one through the crack in that wood!
> 
> Best to go get your live traps and then ship them to BC!


Haha...I think BC have enough critters!


----------



## jcdammeyer (Aug 26, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> No it's not! You have a serious problem waiting to bite you! Your shop has critters in it! Something is peeking out from under your tool post! And I think I see another one through the crack in that wood!
> 
> Best to go get your live traps and then ship them to BC!


Careful.  Next thing you know he'll start using it as a "smiley" in all his posts.


----------



## PeterT (Aug 26, 2022)

thestelster said:


> Ok. Finally.  The reveal.



So now that your beautiful parts have arrived, can you tell us more about the particular vendor in Germany you used & why. I'm not after price, that's your business. Just wondering if they are a designated distributer for this line, or maybe the manufacturer? What other goodies they offer, if it was less cost vs (if it even exists) via N-Am sellers etc. Lastly, how was payment made? I've tried to order a few things from Germany, maybe it was bad luck with the particular vendors I was attempting to dealing with. But they had some very weird (what I would say almost regressive) payment modes unlike common e-payment methods we are more familiar with.


----------



## thestelster (Aug 26, 2022)

PeterT said:


> So now that your beautiful parts have arrived, can you tell us more about the particular vendor in Germany you used & why. I'm not after price, that's your business. Just wondering if they are a designated distributer for this line, or maybe the manufacturer? What other goodies they offer, if it was less cost vs (if it even exists) via N-Am sellers etc. Lastly, how was payment made? I've tried to order a few things from Germany, maybe it was bad luck with the particular vendors I was attempting to dealing with. But they had some very weird (what I would say almost regressive) payment modes unlike common e-payment methods we are more familiar with.


For the last 20 years I have wanted a quick change tool post.  But researching information boiled to two major systems:  Aloris type and Multifix type.  I wanted Multifix, but couldn't afford it.  So I just stuck with my home made 4-way tool post.  The original Multifix was designed and sold as JF. Minder in Switzerland.  But they have been out of business for a very long time.  Currently there are several companies that I know that make Multifix systems:
1.  Klopfer    made in Germany, distributed by KAR Industrial Canada
2.  Pewe Tools   German company but made in China to his specifications
3.  Create Tools  Made in China
4.  AXA Made in Germany  Sold by www.stahlhalter24.de  and www.top-maschinen.de

I was going to go for the Create Tools version after seeing many Youtube videos and comments on the net. But when I tried to get a hold of them, no response.  Apparently the owner died.  The Klopfer unit sold by KAR Industrial was literally a fortune.  So I decided to go with the AXA, and ordered through stahlhalter24.de.  I just picked what I wanted, put it into my cart.  When the site asked for destination, it had Canada (Kanada) listed.  So it immediately removed the VAT tax, and added the shipping costs.  Paid by PayPal.  I had a confirmation response right away.  The following day another email from them advising of expected shipping time.  In less than a week the package was sent by DHL.  It took several weeks for the packages to arrive.  I received an email from them saying that they would split the order into two orders and shipped a week apart so that it incurred less paper work and permits.  Over a certain value they have to apply for export permits.  Easy peasy!  The company I ordered from only sells the AXA Multifix.  The other company, top-machinen sells everything!


----------



## PeterT (Aug 26, 2022)

Thanks for details! Neat to see what's on the other side of the pond. Even if it is a financial fantasy LOL

Saw this on the website, Woot-Woot!


----------



## thestelster (Aug 26, 2022)

PeterT said:


> Thanks for details! Neat to see what's on the other side of the pond. Even if it is a financial fantasy LOL
> 
> Saw this on the website, Woot-Woot!
> View attachment 25884


Though, with the Euro in the gutter, perhaps there are better deals to be had there as opposed to the US.


----------



## Darren (Aug 26, 2022)

Do they have an English website?


----------



## PeterT (Aug 26, 2022)

Things are going to get interesting in the next year, but I digress...


----------



## Susquatch (Aug 26, 2022)

thestelster said:


> The company I ordered from only sells the AXA Multifix. The other company, top-machinen sells everything!



Hey @thestelster,

Your holder is labelled AXA a d you seem to refer to that like AXA is a company.

But given that AXA, BXA, CXA, etc are also common sizes of toolposts, I can't help but wonder if there is a connection there. What size equivalent are those holders of yours? Are they like the AXA many guys on here have or are they much bigger? They look MUCH MUCH MUCH bigger!


----------



## thestelster (Aug 26, 2022)

Darren said:


> Do they have an English website?


You have to use the translation button on your desktop at the top bar.


----------



## VicHobbyGuy (Aug 26, 2022)

Darren said:


> Do they have an English website?


If you use Chrome, right-click and select Translate...works surprisngly well.


----------



## VicHobbyGuy (Aug 26, 2022)

PeterT said:


> Even if it is a financial fantasy LOL


Yes - a couple of thousand $ probably once you buy a 'reasonable'  collection of tool holders.


----------



## thestelster (Aug 26, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Hey @thestelster,
> 
> Your holder is labelled AXA a d you seem to refer to that like AXA is a company.
> 
> But given that AXA, BXA, CXA, etc are also common sizes of toolposts, I can't help but wonder if there is a connection there. What size equivalent are those holders of yours? Are they like the AXA many guys on here have or are they much bigger? They look MUCH MUCH MUCH bigger!


AXA is a company:  AXA-Entwicklungs-und Maschinenbau GmbH (www.axa-maschinenbau.de)  If you go to the either of the websites I mentioned and they will have a PDF catalogue.  If you go to the Stahlhalter24.de there is a blue box at the bottom right where you can get the brouchure.  They have 8 different sizes that will accomodate tool bit sizes from 6mm to 63mm.


----------



## PeterT (Aug 26, 2022)

I've never found an article or description of who started the ABCD sizing designation/standard. I've read it was Aloris & they had patents in the 50's & expired. Anyways I think its mostly N-Am-centric thing? The big names like Aloris & Dorian have had it for a long time. To complicate matters, I'm not sure if the copycats have truly adopted the dimensions &/or mechanism universally. So yeah, 'AXA' is just coincidental that they both refer to lathe toolholders.


----------



## VicHobbyGuy (Aug 26, 2022)

When I looked at the Multifix info from those German sites, I found it strange that the toolholders are "sized" by lathe power (kW/H.P.) and tool size.


----------



## thestelster (Aug 30, 2022)

Yesterday I drilled & tapped the compound, drilled and counterbored the t-plate.  Milled and then surface ground both as a unit.  I just have to drill and ream the top plate for 10mm dowel pins.  I'll be getting the pins and reamer today.  All is looking pretty good.


----------



## thestelster (Aug 31, 2022)

Drilled and reamed the t-plate, 10mm anti-rotation dowel pin installed.  Set up a number of tools to center height.  Now to use it!


----------



## jcdammeyer (Aug 31, 2022)

thestelster said:


> Drilled and reamed the t-plate, 10mm anti-rotation dowel pin installed.  Set up a number of tools to center height.  Now to use it!


No no no no no no no!  Now you have to be like the rest of us and let it sit for 6 months looking pretty.


----------



## thestelster (Aug 31, 2022)

Making a split bushing for the Multifix boring bar holder.  40mm OD, 1" ID, 130mm in length.  Making it out of Uddeholm Ramax HH stainless, pre-hardened to 340HB.  I'll hone the bore and slit it tomorrow.


----------



## jcdammeyer (Aug 31, 2022)

thestelster said:


> Making a split bushing for the Multifix boring bar holder.  40mm OD, 1" ID, 130mm in length.  Making it out of Uddeholm Ramax HH stainless, pre-hardened to 340HB.  I'll hone the bore and slit it tomorrow.


Even used more than one tool holder.  Congrats.


----------



## PeterT (Aug 31, 2022)

Nice tooling. Should last you an eternity of happy machining.


----------



## thestelster (Sep 1, 2022)

I have to open the bore of the bushing by about 0.0015" to accept 1" tools.  Tool post grinder won't go that deep, and the Sunnen hones I have only go up to around 0.800", so I have to use the brake hone.


----------



## Susquatch (Sep 1, 2022)

thestelster said:


> Making a split bushing for the Multifix boring bar holder. 40mm OD, 1" ID, 130mm in length. Making it out of Uddeholm Ramax HH stainless, pre-hardened to 340HB. I'll hone the bore and slit it tomorrow.



Yup! First job for every tool should be to make another tool for the tool........ LOL!

Looks great Stelster!


----------



## PeterT (Sep 1, 2022)

thestelster said:


> I have to open the bore of the bushing by about 0.0015" to accept 1" tools.  Tool post grinder won't go that deep, and the Sunnen hones I have only go up to around 0.800", so I have to use the brake hone.



I'm kind of interested in this, more for model engine cylinders. Do you mean you have a Sunnen hone machine & tooling but for that particular diameter is somehow depth limited?  Or is it some other kind of Sunnen honing tool that is meant to be mounted similar to your (I'll call it a brake cylinder style hone) shown in your picture? Reason I ask is seems like model engineers that use the sprung, tri-stone type hones seem to always encounter bell-mouthing issues. On my radial I used brass Accu-lap, good control & finish but brutally laborious process to remove a thou.


----------



## thestelster (Sep 1, 2022)

PeterT said:


> I'm kind of interested in this, more for model engine cylinders. Do you mean you have a Sunnen hone machine & tooling but for that particular diameter is somehow depth limited?  Or is it some other kind of Sunnen honing tool that is meant to be mounted similar to your (I'll call it a brake cylinder style hone) shown in your picture? Reason I ask is seems like model engineers that use the sprung, tri-stone type hones seem to always encounter bell-mouthing issues. On my radial I used brass Accu-lap, good control & finish but brutally laborious process to remove a thou.


Hi Peter, have a look at this thread that I posted a little while ago https://canadianhobbymetalworkers.com/threads/honing-bores.5591/
I also have the Sunnen Porta-Hones.  But because I use the hones for shotgun barrels, the bore diameters I can hone is from about .5" - .8".  Yes,  those spring hones will generally follow and existing bore, even its crooked, and they can bell mouth.  You just have to keep the whole stone within the bore, ant not coming partially out, if you get my drift.


----------



## thestelster (Sep 1, 2022)

Machining the relief slot, and through cut.  Suggested speed for this 3" slitting hss blade is 61 rpm.  Lowest on the mill is 100rpm, so had to change the VFD from 60Hz to 36Hz.  Checked it with my laser tach, and was at 55rpm, close enough.


----------



## thestelster (Sep 1, 2022)

Houston, we have a problem.

After slitting, removing the burrs, and cleaning it up, it appears to have sprung about 0.002" closed.  So now the bore is 0.998" and a 1" tool won't fit.  Of course in the Uddelholm brochure for this metal says to stress relieve it after rough machining at 985°F for 2 hours.

So now to decide my options.  Maybe just enlarge the bore?  But the OD of the bushing is now 0.002" less than 40mm for the boring bar holder.  But it probably has enough clamping movement for it to still grip the bushing.


----------



## jcdammeyer (Sep 1, 2022)

thestelster said:


> Houston, we have a problem.
> 
> After slitting, removing the burrs, and cleaning it up, it appears to have sprung about 0.002" closed.  So now the bore is 0.998" and a 1" tool won't fit.  Of course in the Uddelholm brochure for this metal says to stress relieve it after rough machining at 985°F for 2 hours.
> 
> So now to decide my options.  Maybe just enlarge the bore?  But the OD of the bushing is now 0.002" less than 40mm for the boring bar holder.  But it probably has enough clamping movement for it to still grip the bushing.


What if you press in a 1" ID shaft?  Then bring it up to 985°F for 2 hours.  Then press out the shaft.  Can't hurt.


----------



## Susquatch (Sep 1, 2022)

thestelster said:


> Houston, we have a problem.



How much of the bushing is actually sprung? Could that part be Yielded? 

Couldn't you just put a 1 inch bushing into it to stress relieve it? 

Or how about a screw (or three) to push it apart as needed?


----------



## thestelster (Sep 1, 2022)

jcdammeyer said:


> What if you press in a 1" ID shaft?  Then bring it up to 985°F for 2 hours.  Then press out the shaft.  Can't hurt.


I don't have an oven to get to that temperature.


----------



## thestelster (Sep 1, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> How much of the bushing is actually sprung? Could that part be Yielded?
> 
> Couldn't you just put a 1 inch bushing into it to stress relieve it?
> 
> Or how about a screw (or three) to push it apart as needed?


A 1" shaft won't fit.  I'm afraid that if I force it in, it might gall, and then you'll never separate them, or if you do, you'll end up damaging the interior of the bushing.

I actually have a hydraulic dent raiser for shot gun bores.  I can put a spacer in (shotgun bores are 0.730" (12g)) and give it a go.


----------



## thestelster (Sep 1, 2022)

I just measured the MT4 adapter bushing, and it is the same size as my new bushing, so the holder will clamp down enough to grip it.

Perhaps I just open up the bore so that it will hold the 1" tools and be done with it.


----------



## Susquatch (Sep 1, 2022)

@thestelster - How about a floating bushing - ie just there to hold it apart the right amount to get the boring bar in.

Can you post a few different views of this bushing you made? I can't really see how a split bushing could gall as you describe. I'm thinking maybe I don't really know what the split bushing looks like.


----------



## whydontu (Sep 1, 2022)

My Multifix 1/2" nominal boring bar sleeve is 0.503" bore. No problem securing holding a 1/2" boring bar, never had any issues with tools spinning or slipping. Don't forget you have an enormous amount of clamping area, a 3" long x 3/4" bore sleeve has 7" of contact area on the tool. So a bit sloppy isn't the end of the world.

I use aluminum for my sleeves, easy to make them up as needed.

Cut a shim to fill in the slot of your undersize holder, chuck the holder in your lathe, and open up the bore a tiny bit.


----------



## thestelster (Sep 1, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> @thestelster - How about a floating bushing - ie just there to hold it apart the right amount to get the boring bar in.
> 
> Can you post a few different views of this bushing you made? I can't really see how a split bushing could gall as you describe. I'm thinking maybe I don't really know what the split bushing looks like.


Here is the boring bar holder on the right.  It accepts 40mm tools. On the right in an ER40 collet chuck with 1" shank.  In the middle is the split bushing.  40mm OD: 1"ID.


----------



## thestelster (Sep 1, 2022)

whydontu said:


> My Multifix 1/2" nominal boring bar sleeve is 0.503" bore. No problem securing holding a 1/2" boring bar, never had any issues with tools spinning or slipping. Don't forget you have an enormous amount of clamping area, a 3" long x 3/4" bore sleeve has 7" of contact area on the tool. So a bit sloppy isn't the end of the world.
> 
> Cut a shim to fill in the slot of your undersize holder, chuck the holder in your lathe, and open up the bore a tiny bit.


Yes, I agree, but instead of turning it on the lathe  I'm thinking to just hone the bore until the ER chuck fits.


----------



## thestelster (Sep 1, 2022)

Or I can just slit right through the other side and have 2 pieces.


----------



## whydontu (Sep 1, 2022)

thestelster said:


> Or I can just slit right through the other side and have 2 pieces.


PITA. Two-piece ones always seem to slide around, and you can't leave the tooling in the sleeve if you are swapping tools. I have a 3/8" boring bar for small stuff, and a 3//4" for big stuff and often have jobs that need both, easy to sit the bars in the sleeves and just have them next to the lathe for quick access.


----------



## thestelster (Sep 1, 2022)

whydontu said:


> PITA. Two-piece ones always seem to slide around, and you can't leave the tooling in the sleeve if you are swapping tools. I have a 3/8" boring bar for small stuff, and a 3//4" for big stuff and often have jobs that need both, easy to sit the bars in the sleeves and just have them next to the lathe for quick access.


Yes, I agree.  As soon as I mentioned it, I threw that idea out the window.


----------



## Susquatch (Sep 1, 2022)

thestelster said:


> Here is the boring bar holder on the right. It accepts 40mm tools. On the right in an ER40 collet chuck with 1" shank. In the middle is the split bushing. 40mm OD: 1"ID.



The reason I wanted more photos was to understand how the part bends under load.

On looking at your picture, one side is cut right through and the other side is cut lengthwise about halfway through. So virtually all the unconstrained bending will take place in the remaining section of the half slice. Of course when constrained it will bend in the entire cylinder.

My own preference would be to drill and tap through the cross-section of the full gap and use a grub screw to pry the halves apart enough to get whatever you want into the bushing. Think like expanding a threading die for a bigger thread. Then remove the screws for the actual machining period. They are only there to pry the halves apart enough to insert or remove a tool.

As I said before, the other way to do it is to deliberately yield the half sliced section. It could be done with a small expander or perhaps even your shotgun tube mandrel. It shouldn't be too hard to do and would not affect the function one iota. If it is too hard to do, then the section is too thick anyway. Yielding the section once won't hurt it given the way it works. Especially if you are careful about how much you yield the section. Just enough to get a tool in and no more.

Another possibility is to slice through the bushing in a few more places. Enough so it stays together for convenient use but not so much as to constrain it for tool insertion. I think you could safely complete about 75% and perhaps much more of the length of that cut. Even keeping it intact at just one end would be better than leaving the entire half slit as is. But I'd try leaving a half inch at each end and just cut the center out. This should make it about 5x easier to insert a tool.

Although I'm not keen on the idea, you could also cut it right through from end to end and then use sliding pins and/or slip screws to keep the assembly together. Again, I'm not keen on this one but throw it out there in case it spawns a better idea.


----------



## PeterT (Sep 1, 2022)

Oh you mean like this? LOL.  In my case the offshore boring block QC was giving me grief. It was not really bored true & constantly had to hammer out the original C spacer, which didn't fit my tooling OD anyways. So I made a fore & aft pair of spacers completely parted into halves. It clamps up very rigidly now. You could make them with some grooves for an O-ring just to keep them mated for assembly.


----------



## thestelster (Sep 2, 2022)

Well, sorry boys, I got fed up.  I tried to expand the new split bushing using my shotgun barrel dent raiser and several sections of 3/4" type L copper tubbing.  It would expand the bushing, but as soon as I released the pressure it went back to where it was.  I reached the limit of the raiser.  So I said @#$#%, I have exceeded my allotment of time devoted to this, so I chopped off a section of the bushing, expanded that section, held the slit open with some spacers, put the collet chuck in, and removed the spacers.  Now the outside diameter is exactly 40mm, and the bore of the bushing is still 1.000".  Now that tool is dedicated for that holder.  It is what it is.  I've learned a valuable lesson  and hopefully I will remember it, which is getting more difficult with time!!


----------



## PeterT (Sep 2, 2022)

It wasn't all in vain. Now I know what a barrel dent raiser looks like. Haha. Cool tool. How much rise can you get out of the anvil displacement?

So your ER tool accessory will be used to hold regular length tooling? (the shank doesn't look like it has a through hole to accommodate extended lengths like the bushing system?)

I mostly use insert type boring bars which have flats for regular toolholders. I don't use use my classic round bar with perpendicular (or angled) HSS bit much anymore. But looks like I have to break it out again for a special task - to widen the clearance trough on my radial crankcase which is ~15mm depth. I always questioned why the clearance was so narrow relative to the rotating parts. Just asking for trouble & maybe masking lubrication. I've rechecked the plans & my parts many times, I'm within a thou on collective assembly. But now in real life I really don't like it so need to either make or cannibalize a holding fixture & deal with this, Ugh.


----------



## thestelster (Sep 2, 2022)

PeterT said:


> It wasn't all in vain. Now I know what a barrel dent raiser looks like. Haha. Cool tool. How much rise can you get out of the anvil displacement?
> 
> So your ER tool accessory will be used to hold regular length tooling? (the shank doesn't look like it has a through hole to accommodate extended lengths like the bushing system?)
> 
> I mostly use insert type boring bars which have flats for regular toolholders. I don't use use my classic round bar with perpendicular (or angled) HSS bit much anymore. But looks like I have to break it out again for a special task - to widen the clearance trough on my radial crankcase which is ~15mm depth. I always questioned why the clearance was so narrow relative to the rotating parts. Just asking for trouble & maybe masking lubrication. I've rechecked the plans & my parts many times, I'm within a thou on collective assembly. But now in real life I really don't like it so need to either make or cannibalize a holding fixture & deal with this, Ugh.


The anvil only moves out about 0.050-0.070".

The shank is treaded for a stop, I can't remember the thread, I think 5/8", but you can pass a 0.500" bar right through.  I made a ER40 Collet chuck for the lathe, and bored it out to take up to 3/4" bar stock, but that chuck has a 1.250" shank.


----------



## thestelster (Sep 10, 2022)

An Update:

I've been using the lathe with the the new Multifix QCTP, and I have to say, I love the convenience of quick change, and its rigidity, and its ability to quickly adjust for different leads or clearances.  One thing that bothered me a bit, not in the system, but the sizing, is that the tool holders had to sit fairly high on the post for the cutting tip to be on center.  My tools are all 3/4" shanks.


----------



## whydontu (Sep 10, 2022)

thestelster said:


> An Update:
> 
> I've been using the lathe with the the new Multifix QCTP, and I have to say, I love the convenience of quick change, and its rigidity, and its ability to quickly adjust for different leads or clearances.  One thing that bothered me a bit, not in the system, but the sizing, is that the tool holders had to sit fairly high on the post for the cutting tip to be on center.  My tools are all 3/4" shanks.


Never had a problem with mine, no noticeable increase in chatter or loss of rigidity at any mounting height. If you’re concerned, maybe make a 1/4” plinth to go between the centre cylinder and the tee nut?


----------



## thestelster (Sep 10, 2022)

It was bothering so much I decided to put a spacer between the tool post and compound.  1/4" spacer would be perfect. Of course I didn't have 1/4" HR, but I did have 5/16".  So I said to myself, self,  why don't I surface grind the one side, and then fly cut the other side and then grind to size.  So I put the plate right on the magnetic vise, ground the one side and removed it, checked it with a square for flatness, and you know what?......gaps of light in sections. Hmm?!  Ok  let's turn it 90° and try again.  Hmm...same thing.  Obviously, the magnet chuck was strong enough to bend the hot rolled plate to flatten it, and when released, it bent back.  I decided I needed less magnetism.  So I put several sheets of card stock between the plate and magnet, and of course blocked it off so the plate wouldn't go flying.  With the card stock, between, I was able to move the plate with a little force but not much.  I only took light passes off 0.0004" per pass.  After several passes, all was good, and plate was flat, no gaps of light.


----------



## thestelster (Sep 10, 2022)

Ok, now one side is done, let's fly cut the other.


----------



## thestelster (Sep 10, 2022)

After flycutting, bored for center post, drilled, countersunk, tapped, 1/4"-28 flat head socket screws.  Attached the plate to the compound, put the compound on the surface grinder, and ground the plate.

Put everything back together, installed tool holder with tool, and adjusted for center.  I'm a happy camper!!


----------



## thestelster (Sep 12, 2022)

This is today's recent delivery for the AXA Multifix QCTP.  2 boring bar holders with, what they call prisms, which is a spacer for smaller diameter boring bars.  These holders will only hold round tooling.


----------



## thestelster (Oct 8, 2022)

I have been drilling with the drill chuck mounted on Multifix QCTP for a little while now.  I am extremely happy with set-up.  The Multifix has a tool holder for boring bars, 40mm in my "B" size.  Though, I do not have 40mm boring bars, I can utilize reducing bushings for smaller boring bars, or what I've done previously, made a 1" bushing to hold an ER40 straight shank collet chuck.       But you can also get morse taper bushings to hold those type of tools.  I have an MT3 and an MT4 bushing.  Currently I have my small (0-10mm) Albrecht drill chuck mounted in the MT3 bushing and mounted in the boring bar tool holder.  
The beauty of this is that the drill chuck arbor is tanged, and the MT bushings will accept the tang.  Once assembled, there is no way that you will spin the chuck, as opposed to it being mounted in the tail stock, which (at least on my lathe), has no provisions to accept the tang.  As you can see in one of the photos, the chuck spindle has spun several times (due to a damaged tail stock bore (which I remedied in another post.))

I can now quickly drill, under power feed; I don't have to clean the lathe bed, then squirt way-oil onto it, then drag the tail stock up and down the lathe bed; I don't need to tighten the tail stock, drill, loosen the tail stock, move it backward, change bit, push forward, tighten it, drill, repeat.  Max travel of my tail stock spindle is 4", but I only go 3" because it sticks out so much. Using the QCTP, I have 50"!! so no more repositioning of the tail stock when drilling long holes.
Once the center height is established, it literally takes a couple of minutes to dial it in the x-axis with a DTI, and a couple seconds if you have  a DRO.  Changing tooling:  loosen the two bolts of the split tool holder, remove the MT busing with tool A, insert MT bushing holding tool B.  Tighten bolts. 

I think this is one of the best uses of a QCTP.


----------



## Susquatch (Oct 8, 2022)

thestelster said:


> I have been drilling with the drill chuck mounted on Multifix QCTP for a little while now. I am extremely happy with set-up.



My tailstock has an MT3 Taper with the tang provisions so I am happy using it to drill with. It is also 4 inches, but not with a tang. The tang will self eject at 0.75 inches so I lose 3/4" of travel. It has never been an issue and even if it was, I love the auto eject feature so I'd simply live with it.

I have an MT3 tool holder that came with my lathe that I've never used. I will have to try it your way just to get a feel for your joy.

One of the concerns I would have with using a tool holder is concentricity to the spindle. It's easy to adjust side parallelism, but how do you adjust the vertical? Just pray that it's ok?


----------



## thestelster (Oct 8, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> My tailstock has an MT3 Taper with the tang provisions so I am happy using it to drill with. It is also 4 inches, but not with a tang. The tang will self eject at 0.75 inches so I lose 3/4" of travel. It has never been an issue and even if it was, I love the auto eject feature so I'd simply live with it.
> 
> I have an MT3 tool holder that came with my lathe that I've never used. I will have to try it your way just to get a feel for your joy.
> 
> One of the concerns I would have with using a tool holder is concentricity to the spindle. It's easy to adjust side parallelism, but how do you adjust the vertical? Just pray that it's ok?


OMG, haha,  are we going to open up that can of worms again about headstock alignment, tail stock alignment, carriage and crosslide alignment


----------



## Susquatch (Oct 8, 2022)

thestelster said:


> OMG, haha,  are we going to open up that can of worms again about headstock alignment, tail stock alignment, carriage and crosslide alignment



Nah, no worries. Just having fun! Then again, speaking of alignment, see *My First Major DRO Job* thread update:









						First Major DRO Job
					

The Rego info is quite clear to me :) Is it becasue I am born in EU? Not sure.    I didn't land on an individual product page. I landed on a generic info page for the entire collet set in a chart that was sort of like the LMS info. I can't seem to find it now.




					canadianhobbymetalworkers.com


----------



## Susquatch (Oct 9, 2022)

thestelster said:


> OMG, haha,  are we going to open up that can of worms again about headstock alignment, tail stock alignment, carriage and crosslide alignment



Having had fun with it, I think I need to get serious. 

I mounted my Southbend Keyless chuck in my MT3 toolholder and checked the alignment....... 

It was horrible. Much much worse than I expected. 

Using a short piece of 3/8 dowel, it was just under 10 thou over 1 inch. 28 thou over 3 inches - oddly high at the tip, not low. Much as I know that drills and reamers follow the hole, I don't personally feel like 30 thou over the length of a normal drilled hole is a good thing. At a minimum, it's likely to result in a conical hole. 

I think it would be worth measuring yours @thestelster. Might save you wondering what happened on some future job. 

Now my original question haunts me. How do I adjust that out? Or should I bother?


----------



## thestelster (Oct 10, 2022)

I just did some testing for this set up.

Firstly, when I was doing the installation of the Multifix QCTP, I surface ground the top of the compound slide.
As you can see  the error in parallelism is  0.0026" over 3" in the z-axis, tilted downwards towards the headstock.


----------



## thestelster (Oct 10, 2022)

I then put the drill chuck (Rohm Supra) onto the Multifix and chucked a 6" carbide rod.  I rotated the compound so that I had zero deviation in the x-axis over 4".  And measured the parallelism error in the y-axis:  0.004" over 4", tipped downwards toward the headstock.  I think that's pretty good all things considered, and the versatility of drilling with the QCTP far outweighs the slight error in parallelism.  After all  its just to drill holes.  If I need greater accuracy I will be boring.


----------



## Susquatch (Oct 10, 2022)

thestelster said:


> I then put the drill chuck (Rohm Supra) onto the Multifix and chucked a 6" carbide rod.  I rotated the compound so that I had zero deviation in the x-axis over 4".  And measured the parallelism error in the y-axis:  0.004" over 4", tipped downwards toward the headstock.  I think that's pretty good all things considered, and the versatility of drilling with the QCTP far outweighs the slight error in parallelism.  After all  its just to drill holes.  If I need greater accuracy I will be boring.



Wish mine was that good. So going back to my original question, how would you correct for that?

Shim the Tool Post?


----------



## thestelster (Oct 10, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Wish mine was that good. So going back to my original question, how would you correct for that?
> 
> Shim the Tool Post?


I think first is to measure the top of the compound that the QCTP is sitting on, and see how it correlates with your readings off the chucked rod.


----------



## Susquatch (Oct 10, 2022)

Compound is only 0.0015 off over its full length of 7 inches. I'm not gunna try to change that. I think it's all in the tool post. I might try my piston style toolpost. But there is a limit to how much work I want to do to be able to use a toolpost mounted chuck. I'll prolly try a shim on the back edge though.


----------



## thestelster (Oct 10, 2022)

Ok, check this out!!  I decided to rotate the compound slide 90° so that it would be in the same position that I surface ground it.  Zeroed the x-axis, and now the vertical deviation is 0.001" over 4"!!!  Now, I almost never use the lathe in this position, so I think I will take the compound slide off and surface grind it in the position I usually have the compound (direction of travel along the z-axis.)


----------



## Susquatch (Oct 10, 2022)

@thestelster - I put a 6 thou shim under the backside of my Toolpost. My vertical runout is now 1.5 thou over the length of the 3" rod. But it has a dip in it right at the chuck so I know it isn't really straight. It's the best I have right now though. I should get a few short non-tapered indicator rods. Regardless, the shim seems to work just fine. Again, I'm not grinding my compound.


----------



## thestelster (Oct 10, 2022)

Here are a couple shots of the results.


----------



## jcdammeyer (Oct 10, 2022)

thestelster said:


> Here are a couple shots of the results.


Any chance the bed might also be worn ever so slightly?


----------



## PeterT (Oct 10, 2022)

Maybe one day you will eliminate the middle man (compound) for a solid tool post. You have a much better quality, repeatable tool holder than most mortals & looks like a relatively rapid way of removing/installing. Of course when you need a compound you need a compound so that's kind of the pita aspect. But a solid TP is still on my to-do list for stability reasons.


----------



## Susquatch (Oct 10, 2022)

jcdammeyer said:


> Any chance the bed might also be worn ever so slightly?



Not likely. My head alignment is awesome over the same range. 

Someday soon I'll have time to work on my new alignment dumbbell design and hopefully extend the alignment to the majority of my bed. We will see.


----------



## Susquatch (Oct 10, 2022)

PeterT said:


> Maybe one day you will eliminate the middle man (compound) for a solid tool post. You have a much better quality, repeatable tool holder than most mortals & looks like a relatively rapid way of removing/installing. Of course when you need a compound you need a compound so that's kind of the pita aspect. But a solid TP is still on my to-do list for stability reasons.



Mine too. But I'll be happy just making a special toolpost block just for parting. I plan to remove the entire quick-change toolpost to do that. I want a solid steel column between the bottom of the parting tool and the top of the compound. It's project #42 on my list...... LOL!


----------



## thestelster (Oct 10, 2022)

PeterT said:


> Maybe one day you will eliminate the middle man (compound) for a solid tool post. You have a much better quality, repeatable tool holder than most mortals & looks like a relatively rapid way of removing/installing. Of course when you need a compound you need a compound so that's kind of the pita aspect. But a solid TP is still on my to-do list for stability reasons.


Hi Peter, I've thought about it, but I use the compound for a couple of operations.  1:  I occasionally have to do a tapered cone at the entrance of a bore (actually rifle chamber), and 2:  I use the compound for widening the root of screw threads.  Most of my threading inserts are non-topping, so they are able to cut 36-12tpi.  Their tip width is 0.006", which is great for very fine threads, but if I need to cut a 12tpi thread the root width for that 0.020",  so I have to move the compound in the z-axis by 0.014" to achieve the proper pitch diameter.  Different pitches have different root widths.  Without a compound I would need to get topping inserts for almost every thread pitch I want to cut.

And other operations like dressing a center, making punches, change the compound angle slightly for clearance during boring, etc.


----------



## PeterT (Oct 10, 2022)

Yes, that's the rub isn't it? The advantages of solid TP vs disadvantages of missing compound. That's why making one always seems to get pushed back by other priorities and why I want it to me as quick as possible to assemble & knock down.


----------



## Dabbler (Oct 10, 2022)

I want to build a solid toolpost riser - just because.  It is in the C priority list....


----------



## Susquatch (Oct 11, 2022)

Dabbler said:


> I want to build a solid toolpost riser - just because.  It is in the C priority list....



Me too! Just because! 

Truth is that I got parting working fairly well thanks to a donated parting tool from another member. It was too big for his lathe. But I'm still smarting over why it's so difficult. I have to try a solid riser - just because! 

Too funny!


----------

