# DavidR8's shop shenanigans



## David_R8 (Dec 31, 2020)

Now that my shop is nearer to being sorted out I thought I'd start a general project thread for stuff I'm bashing away at. It won't be all metal work as I dabble in a few mediums, all mediocre to medium well


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## David_R8 (Jan 1, 2021)

I’ve been working on an ensuite bath. 
Built in cabinetry is near the end of the job. 
Framing in and finishing work left undone by a previous owner.


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## David_R8 (Jan 1, 2021)

After working in my reconfigured shop I came to the conclusion that the configuration that worked on paper, didn’t work in reality.
So I spent the day moving the mill and lathe, swapping them into the spots previously occupied by my tablesaw and other woodworking machines.
Now I can easily access my saw which was previously a real bear to use.
The saw used to live along this wall and I would swing it out to use it. Problem was that I couldn’t get by the thing. Plus I had no way to use the dust collector so it made a hellacious mess.
So now the mill and lathe are on this wall.


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## Dusty (Jan 1, 2021)

@David-R8, do you have any idea how much your mill weighs ?
Did you move your mill with your shop crane, lifting straps, and stand attached ?
What strength  and length are your lifting straps being used with your lathe ?
To lift your mill which pin hole position was your shop crane, 1/2 ton ?


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## David_R8 (Jan 1, 2021)

Dusty said:


> @David-R8, do you have any idea how much your mill weighs ?
> Did you move your mill with your shop crane, lifting straps, and stand attached ?
> What strength and length are your lifting straps being used with your lathe ?
> To lift your mill which pin hole position was your shop crane, 1/2 ton ?



Hi Dusty, the mill is a 1980 Long Chang and comparing it to other RF30 mills it has beefier castings. I did move it with the stand (which is a beast unto itself) attached. So I’d guess it’s in the 500-600 lb range.
I have 12 ft lifting straps rated for 2600 lb in a cradle configuration. I had the hoist in the 1/2 ton configuration.
I have moved it several times the same way.
Likewise I used the hoist to move my 1800 lb surface grinder. Albeit in the 1.5 ton position.


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## Dusty (Jan 1, 2021)

Thanks David your comments offers me some info to think about.  PA has 4 foot with end loops although their 8 foot are endless whatever that means ?  I assume your slings are 1 inch wide ?  From whom did you purchase your slings ?

https://www.princessauto.com/en/1-in-x-4-ft-lifting-sling-with-end-loops/product/PA0008480170
https://www.princessauto.com/en/1-in-x-8-ft-endless-lifting-sling/product/PA0008021561
https://www.princessauto.com/en/2-in-x-8-ft-endless-lifting-sling/product/PA0008480162


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## YotaBota (Jan 1, 2021)

I'm looking at buying the same hoist, have you had any issues/limitations with it?


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## David_R8 (Jan 1, 2021)

Dusty said:


> Thanks David your comments offers me some info to think about. PA has 4 foot with end loops although their 8 foot are endless whatever that means ? I assume your slings are 1 inch wide ? From whom did you purchase your slings ?
> 
> https://www.princessauto.com/en/1-in-x-4-ft-lifting-sling-with-end-loops/product/PA0008480170
> https://www.princessauto.com/en/1-in-x-8-ft-endless-lifting-sling/product/PA0008021561
> https://www.princessauto.com/en/2-in-x-8-ft-endless-lifting-sling/product/PA0008480162



I purchased them from Western Supply , a local equipment supply house. They are indeed an inch wide with reinforcement around the loops. 
They may rated higher than I originally said. I can check tomorrow.


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## David_R8 (Jan 1, 2021)

YotaBota said:


> I'm looking at buying the same hoist, have you had any issues/limitations with it?



No issues whatsoever other than having to fill and bleed the cylinder when I first got it. To be fair, the instructions said it would be necessary. I had oil so it was no big deal.


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## Dabbler (Jan 2, 2021)

I have both the 4 foot  and the 8 foot 'endless' PA slings the both work fine.


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## David_R8 (Jan 3, 2021)

@Dusty 
I looked at my straps and they have a much greater capacity than I previously said. 
Straight pull - 3100 lbs
Loop - 2400 lbs 
Cradle - 6200 lbs 
And they are 10 ft. 
Blame it on my lousy memory.


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## David_R8 (Jan 4, 2021)

Spent the day running conduit and electrical to supply power to the newly relocated mill and lathe. Two 4-gang 120v receptacles and one 240v for the mill. 
Now I can put everything back in place...


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## YYCHM (Jan 4, 2021)

Need a panoramic view of the shop now to appreciate...


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## David_R8 (Jan 4, 2021)

Behold the chaos @YYCHobbyMachinist!
I am embarrassed by this


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## Dusty (Jan 4, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> Behold the chaos @YYCHobbyMachinist!
> I am embarrassed by this



Chaos never lasts you'll have things in top shape soon enough just keep on trucking. Like your equipment covers, airborne dust and such is a sure killer on oiled machines and components. Hard to avoid when doing woodwork and shop rebuild.


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## Dusty (Jan 4, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> @Dusty
> I looked at my straps and they have a much greater capacity than I previously said.
> Straight pull - 3100 lbs
> Loop - 2400 lbs
> ...



Thanks David good info to know before making a purchase., shall watch the sales as they turn up.


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## David_R8 (Jan 4, 2021)

Dusty said:


> Chaos never lasts you'll have things in top shape soon enough just keep on trucking. Like your equipment covers, airborne dust and such is a sure killer on oiled machines and components. Hard to avoid when doing woodwork and shop rebuild.


Thanks @Dusty, indeed the descent into chaos was swift and so shall be the return to normal


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## Chicken lights (Jan 5, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> Behold the chaos @YYCHobbyMachinist!
> I am embarrassed by this


It happens. It’s either a work shop or a museum, it’s hard to find the middle road where it’s organized but functional


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## DPittman (Jan 5, 2021)

I dunno know maybe its just me but I really like pictures of people's shops.


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## David_R8 (Jan 5, 2021)

DPittman said:


> I dunno know maybe its just me but I really like pictures of people's shops.



Me too. I always learn something about workflow or organization when I see other shops.


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## 6.5 Fan (Jan 5, 2021)

Hmmm i see several spots of unused floor space. Room for more stuff, that's my moto. Keep at it.


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## CalgaryPT (Jan 5, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> Me too. I always learn something about workflow or organization when I see other shops.


All great progress David.

It took me 15 years to fully tweak the layout of my shop. I had to consider the ability to unload heavy stuff from my tailgate into the shop, orientation of the foot shear to cut 8' sheet, bandsaw layout, and workflow from grinding, sanding and buffing stations as you always go back and forth between these. But the trick I am most proud of is that my slip roll doubles as an infeed roller for my dry cut saw (previously abrasive type), while the outfeed goes through a space between my grinder and PortaBand table on my welding bench. The same gap serves as outfeed for my Beverley sheer from the opposite direction. Another bench shear I have only has one permanent bolt holding it down so I can pivot it out of the way to work when needed.

I thought I had considered everything, including my Cardinal Rule that all machines must be on casters so I can push them to the side and work in the center of the shop if needed. That only worked for a while until I had a 14' x 8' job I did for a friend out of 2" tubing. I realized that once I pushed all the machines to the side, I can't access my tool boxes along the sides of the shop. So I had to anticipate _every_ tool needed before I started. That was a big fail. Additionally, the foot shear and a magnetic brake get reefed on hard and necessitate anchoring to the floor, so this challenged my plan even further.

More recently my post crane needed to be next to my welding bench so I can hoist snowblowers up there for maintenance.

Point being—shops evolve. As you acquire new machines and change your focus, you'll change your layout occasionally. I finally found my sweet spot I think. But if there were an emoji of a wife rolling her eyes, it would be inserted here....


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## David_R8 (Jan 5, 2021)

6.5 Fan said:


> Hmmm i see several spots of unused floor space. Room for more stuff, that's my motto. Keep at it.


Indeed, it is an evolution. 
I did some CAD (cardboard aided design) initially pushing cutouts of the machines, tool chests etc around a scaled drawing of the space. I thought the tablesaw would work where I had it and it did but was a total PITA to use because I couldn't move around it. 
Doing the cabinet work over Christmas, I just pulled it out into the open area and it was a real treat to use. That confirmed for me that the flow was all wrong. The other thing I had not considered was space to use the machine. I don't need acres of room around the mill or lathe but I do around the table saw, jointer and planer. That was a big factor in shuffling stuff around. 
A big plus now is that the woodworking machines are all together and I can curtain off the metal working machines. 
I have not yet encountered the eye-roll but she did ask me why I keep trying to organize it...


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## David_R8 (Jan 5, 2021)

I spent a bit of time tonight picking up the pieces from the wiring, hanging up my wooden double-acting clamps, pushing the big lumps of mobile cast iron into place and clearing a temporary spot on the bench for my surface plate.
No pics as my phone was dead....tomorrow I'll shoot a pic.


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## JohnnyTK (Jan 6, 2021)

David your work on your shop is an inspiration to me as I putter along to complete mine. Just when I grind to a halt  another post appears and I find my honey do list  once again has vanished and myself back working in the future shop.


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## David_R8 (Jan 6, 2021)

JohnnyTK said:


> David your work on your shop is an inspiration to me as I putter along to complete mine. Just when I grind to a halt  another post appears and I find my honey do list  once again has vanished and myself back working in the future shop.


Thank you @JohnnyTK, I'm glad that my machinery machinations are helping you!


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## David_R8 (Jan 6, 2021)

Tool box quandary for the group: I have two Kennedy 520 boxes like this one.




The challenge is how to arrange them so they are useful. They are 20" wide, 8.5" deep and ~14" tall when closed. I have limited bench space so not keen on putting them on the bench.
I was thinking of building a cabinet on casters for them so that they could function like a roll-around box and I'd still be able to access both top tills .
I'd love to hear other design options.


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## YotaBota (Jan 6, 2021)

I can cut your Kennedy toolbox problem in half,,,wink wink nudge nudge  You don't need two.
Will the boxes fit on the shelf under the lathe and still open? They would be handy there.


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## Chicken lights (Jan 6, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> Tool box quandary for the group: I have two Kennedy 520 boxes like this one.
> View attachment 12550
> The challenge is how to arrange them so they are useful. They are 20" wide, 8.5" deep and ~14" tall when closed. I have limited bench space sonot keen on putting them on the bench.
> I was thinking of building a cabinet on casters for them so that they could function like a roll-around box and I'd still be able to access both top tills .
> I'd love to hear other design options.






Why not a bottom roll cab? That’s just a random picture but you can get all different sizes and combinations. 

I have a similar size tool box as your Kennedy and that’s “probably” the route I’m going to go


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## David_R8 (Jan 6, 2021)

YotaBota said:


> I can cut your Kennedy toolbox problem in half,,,wink wink nudge nudge  You don't need two.
> Will the boxes fit on the shelf under the lathe and still open? They would be handy there.


In the present configuration one would fit but not both. I would need to widen the existing base for them to both fit. 
One option could be to put them on two separate drawer slides under them bench.


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## David_R8 (Jan 6, 2021)

Chicken lights said:


> View attachment 12551
> Why not a bottom roll cab? That’s just a random picture but you can get all different sizes and combinations.
> 
> I have a similar size tool box as your Kennedy and that’s “probably” the route I’m going to go


That could work...one on a bottom roll cab and the other on the end of the lathe bench maybe...


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## David_R8 (Jan 6, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> I spent a bit of time tonight picking up the pieces from the wiring, hanging up my wooden double-acting clamps, pushing the big lumps of mobile cast iron into place and clearing a temporary spot on the bench for my surface plate.
> No pics as my phone was dead....tomorrow I'll shoot a pic.



Here’s a before and after. Notice the astonishing difference. 
Before 






After


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## YYCHM (Jan 6, 2021)

Nope...… not seeing it LOL


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## David_R8 (Jan 6, 2021)

I'm so disappointed... 
All the red circled items moved or changed. Seriously it was very subtle and more obvious in person


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## Hruul (Jan 6, 2021)

You also moved the ironing board, which I am confused on why it is in the shop unless it doubles as an outfeed table.


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## David_R8 (Jan 6, 2021)

Hruul said:


> You also moved the ironing board, which I am confused on why it is in the shop unless it doubles as an outfeed table.


Good catch! 
Indeed, I do use it as an outfeed table. They work very well and hang on the wall when not on use.


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## Chicken lights (Jan 6, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> That could work...one on a bottom roll cab and the other on the end of the lathe bench maybe...


If they’re only 8.5” deep, 20” deep is a common size for roll cabs. They could fit back to back. Even if you snag a skinnier one you could make a plate for the top to make it wider. Just throwing it out there


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## David_R8 (Jan 6, 2021)

Chicken lights said:


> If they’re only 8.5” deep, 20” deep is a common size for roll cabs. They could fit back to back. Even if you snag a skinnier one you could make a plate for the top to make it wider. Just throwing it out there





Chicken lights said:


> If they’re only 8.5” deep, 20” deep is a common size for roll cabs. They could fit back to back. Even if you snag a skinnier one you could make a plate for the top to make it wider. Just throwing it out there


I like your idea!


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## David_R8 (Jan 8, 2021)

Some shop activity tonight. 
KMS had the Super Dust Deputy on sale over Christmas so I decided to splurge. 
I have relatively minor collection requirements, only one machine at a time, the worst dust creator being my Unisaw. 
I have a Sharkguard on it with a dust port and my shop vac which works ok but not amazing. 
I plan to add a 4” duct to the back of the saw cabinet and Y that into an over arm connector of 2” conduit that connects to the Sharkguard. 
In any case I got the collector, cyclone and bin mounted to the wall tonight.


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## CalgaryPT (Jan 9, 2021)

Now that's a dust collector.


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## Brent H (Jan 9, 2021)

@David_R8 :  this is the beast I made following the instructions and tweaking plans from Bill Penz:

https://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/cyclone_plan.php

This is a Frankenstein from a 3 Hp busy bee - used the motor and housing.  Made the body, cone, exhaust.  Works amazing:  





No thread high jack but if you wanted to go nuts or if anyone else wants more info I can find my build and start another thread. - and yes  it runs smoothly so that that speaker stays put.

You milling anything on that face plate ?


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## David_R8 (Jan 9, 2021)

Looks great @Brent H, I wish I had the space for a bigger unit, I just can't spare it... 

No slots yet. I think maybe next week I'll start on it.


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## David_R8 (Jan 11, 2021)

I took some time tonight to carefully grind an HSS lathe tool as I've not been happy with the cheap insert tooling I have.









Put it in a holder, lined it up to centre and proceeded to turn some 1018 and 12L14.
Got a decent finish on the 1018, could take as light a cut as .0025 and as much as .050 with ease. The chips were tight little curls.


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## PeterT (Jan 11, 2021)

Nice. That's the beauty of HSS, you can alter the cutting geometry to completely change (hopefully improve) the cut and swarf if that's an issue. I admit to becoming lazy & complacent for regular turning. Inserts may well be cheap & that's the root problem. But often they are just wrong for the job/material and/or machine or constraints/speed/feed. But I have also stuck on a very similar insert with different nose radius or breaker profile & gotten great results. Personally I think 'HSS is better than carbide' for hobby machines is largely overblown. Sometimes it just takes some trial & error. Buying offshore stuff with missing or ambiguous specs doesn't help the situation either. I'm pretty much a CCMT & DCMT kinda guy & break out the HSS for special situations or profiles they cant reach. The only trick with HSS is re-dressing & replicating the magic when it wears eventually LOL


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## David_R8 (Jan 11, 2021)

Thanks Peter, 
I use CCMT and DCMT also. I’ll admit to having cheap import inserts which don’t make me cry if they chip but I’ve never had much luck getting good finishes with them. 
I have some Korloy CCMTs and DCMTs on order as I’m curious about the difference between cheap and quality carbide. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dabbler (Jan 11, 2021)

Kennametal inserts have in some cases come down to sane prices also.


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## Chicken lights (Jan 13, 2021)

Hey @David_R8 i found you a radial drill for the shop. It’s a Kitchen and Wade brand. For size reference those are 2x4’s in that brace blocking up the head


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## David_R8 (Jan 13, 2021)

Thanks @Chicken lights, that seems like a totally reasonable machine for me 
That thing is a monster!!!


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## David_R8 (Jan 14, 2021)

My 5C collet chuck arrived today. 
It’s the same one the Clough42 did a video on. He got decent results. 
Took a few minutes to machine the backplate flat and round. Things was like a taco chip, .02 runout on the face, same amount out of round on the register. Thankfully there was enough material to true up the register. 
Managed to get it to .00025 runout before I shut the lights off and came inside.


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## kevin.decelles (Jan 15, 2021)

Always interested in the procedure used to cleanup registers and surfaces — it doesn’t come naturally to me, even when I see diagrams posted. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## YYCHM (Jan 15, 2021)

Where did that come from?  I never see anything new offered with a 1-1/2" - 8 TPI back plate.


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## Hruul (Jan 15, 2021)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> Where did that come from?  I never see anything new offered with a 1-1/2" - 8 TPI back plate.


I believe it is on Ebay.  Clough42 had links to it on his youtube video for the 5C collet chuck.


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## David_R8 (Jan 15, 2021)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> Where did that come from?  I never see anything new offered with a 1-1/2" - 8 TPI back plate.





Hruul said:


> I believe it is on Ebay.  Clough42 had links to it on his youtube video for the 5C collet chuck.


Yup, it's this one:
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/BOSTAR-5C-C...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


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## YotaBota (Jan 15, 2021)

Nice, do you have the collets or is that next on the list?


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## David_R8 (Jan 15, 2021)

kevin.decelles said:


> Always interested in the procedure used to cleanup registers and surfaces — it doesn’t come naturally to me, even when I see diagrams posted.


I first spun it on the spindle to see how concentric and flat it was. Turned out it wasn't. Nor did it thread on very far because the spigot was almost 3/4" deep.
I chucked in my 4-jaw, spigot facing out.  dialed it in off the spigot. I then turned off about 1/2", basically all of the non threaded portion. Then I bored out 1/2 deep so that it would screw all they way to the spindle register. A bit of a chamfer and done.

I unscrewed the 4-jaw so I could try the fit on the spindle. Fit like a glove.
I loosened the 4-jaw and took it off. 
Took a facing cut on the area the chuck rests on to get that flat and then gradually eased up to the register dimension with very light cuts and checking the chuck for fit with every pass. 
It was a perfect fit on my second pass.


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## David_R8 (Jan 15, 2021)

YotaBota said:


> Nice, do you have the collets or is that next on the list?


I bought a set of collets from Accusize on Amazon for $125 with free shipping
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00TA5LRQW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Accusize sells the same set on their site for $156 plus shipping. Go figure...


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## YotaBota (Jan 15, 2021)

Accusize is kinda goofey that way, they give you a deal and free shipping thru Amazon and pay Amazon to do it rather than being competitive on their own site. I don't get it either.


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## YYCHM (Jan 15, 2021)

What do you guys think about Accusize in general?  Any good?


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## David_R8 (Jan 15, 2021)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> What do you guys think about Accusize in general?  Any good?


I think it depends on the specific item.
Shipping in general is about $15 to the Island from ON so that's not bad considering KBC in Vancouver to the Island is $10 flat up to 50 lbs.

They have what appears to be the same 5C collet chuck and back plate for significantly more dollars.
But the collet set I bought came very well packaged, each collet is in a plastic screw top tube. They are really nicely made, no burrs and I cannot measure any runout.
The only other thing I've bought from them is a tenths DTI and it's pretty good though the bezel is very stiff to turn.


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## Hruul (Jan 15, 2021)

My QCTP is from them and all the tool holders I have are from them.  No issues so far.  They seem to resell the same china made stuff as others.  I would hope that they might do a more stringent job on manufacturing quality checks since there name is actually on the item, but cannot say for sure on that.


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## kevin.decelles (Jan 15, 2021)

I like the accusisze bxa holders and bought a set of er40 collets (imperial and metric sets), which are fine because 1) I don’t know better 2) are more accurate than my abilities at this time

The collet sets are well packaged (nice case) and all were individually wrapped

All off of Amazon


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## kevin.decelles (Jan 15, 2021)

David, can u post a picture of the collet chuck from a 45 degree view from the back? Would like to see the back side w/threads etc


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## David_R8 (Jan 15, 2021)

kevin.decelles said:


> David, can u post a picture of the collet chuck from a 45 degree view from the back? Would like to see the back side w/threads etc
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Will do later today.


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## Dabbler (Jan 15, 2021)

All  my BXA tool holders are Accusize, except for the few Aloris that came with my toolpost.  They fit perfectly, and seem well made.

Good intel on the collets from Accusize, Thanks!


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## johnnielsen (Jan 15, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> Thanks Peter,
> I use CCMT and DCMT also. I’ll admit to having cheap import inserts which don’t make me cry if they chip but I’ve never had much luck getting good finishes with them.
> I have some Korloy CCMTs and DCMTs on order as I’m curious about the difference between cheap and quality carbide.
> 
> ...



One of these days, I am going to order some hi speed inserts and tool holders from https://www.arwarnerco.com/ . I have heard good things about their hi speed steel inserts made of T15 steel.


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## DPittman (Jan 15, 2021)

johnnielsen said:


> One of these days, I am going to order some hi speed inserts and tool holders from https://www.arwarnerco.com/ . I have heard good things about their hi speed steel inserts made of T15 steel.


I had some of their inserts when I had my little 6" atlas lathe and thought they were great but I had little experience and only cheap carbide to compare them to.


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## Tom O (Jan 15, 2021)

I bought some angle gauge blocks and some expanding mandrels from them through Amazon the last of them came today not unboxed yet though.


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## YYCHM (Jan 15, 2021)

Tom O said:


> I bought some angle gauge blocks and some expanding mandrels from them through Amazon the last of them came today not unboxed yet though.



Them?  As in Accusize?


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## Tom O (Jan 16, 2021)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> Them?  As in Accusize?


Yep Accusize they look good too I’ll post some pics tomorrow


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## PeterT (Jan 16, 2021)

From what I have seen & bought, Accusize is pretty much the exact same (Chinese) stuff you would find in our normal places. Sometimes the price/shipping/time makes it more attractive, sometimes not. As someone mentioned, sometimes its better to buy their stuff through their Amazon store, it can be net cheaper with Prime.


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## Tom O (Jan 16, 2021)

Here is the accusize angle blocks they look good but are not marked by angle on them.





Expandable mandrels for common diameters 





These are the adjustable mandrels for odd size bores.


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## David_R8 (Jan 17, 2021)

kevin.decelles said:


> David, can u post a picture of the collet chuck from a 45 degree view from the back? Would like to see the back side w/threads etc
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Here’s a shot of the back.


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## David_R8 (Jan 19, 2021)

Inspired by @John Conroy Y-axis power feed I splurged on the same unit that I will adapt to my RF30 clone.
Going to follow much the same approach as PragmaticLee


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## Brent H (Jan 19, 2021)

Is it $189 now @David_R8 ?


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## David_R8 (Jan 19, 2021)

Brent H said:


> Is it $189 now @David_R8 ?



$187 actually. 
https://vevor.ca/products/power-fee...pp&context=order_first_order_detail_line_item


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## YYCHM (Jan 19, 2021)

Ad states Y-AXIS yet the details state X-AXIS?


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## David_R8 (Jan 19, 2021)

No idea what’s going on there.
I looked at all of them on Vevor and elsewhere and they are all identical except for small details.


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## John Conroy (Jan 19, 2021)

I think you want this one since you will need the x axis mounting bracket. A Y axis one will only come with a round mounting block.

https://vevor.ca/products/power-fee...machine-0-200-rpm?_pos=4&_sid=540757b72&_ss=r


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## David_R8 (Jan 19, 2021)

This is the one I ordered:
https://vevor.ca/products/power-fee...or-bridgeport-type-milling-machines-0-200-rpm.
While the title says Y-axis, all the details and photos show the large table mounting bracket.

If it is the incorrect one I'll send it back as they seem to have a good return policy.


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## John Conroy (Jan 20, 2021)

Yeah it's hard to know whether the picture or the description is incorrect with these guys. I gambled that the description was accurate and the picture was generic and got lucky. They do respond to emails at support@vevor.ca so you could try that before they ship. They were slow to ship my order and responded quickly after I emailed to ask why. It was shortly after Christmas and they were very busy but responded the same day.


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## David_R8 (Jan 20, 2021)

John Conroy said:


> Yeah it's hard to know whether the picture or the description is incorrect with these guys. I gambled that the description was accurate and the picture was generic and got lucky. They do respond to emails at support@vevor.ca so you could try that before they ship. They were slow to ship my order and responded quickly after I emailed to ask why. It was shortly after Christmas and they were very busy but responded the same day.


Thanks John, I've emailed them. We shall see what they say.


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## YYCHM (Jan 20, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> Inspired by @John Conroy Y-axis power feed I splurged on the same unit that I will adapt to my RF30 clone.



Is your lead screw keyed?  Mine's not.


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## YotaBota (Jan 20, 2021)

That's the same one I installed on my mill, so far so good after 6ish hours of use.


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## David_R8 (Jan 20, 2021)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> Is your lead screw keyed?  Mine's not.


No, mine has roll pins to secure the dials.


----------



## YYCHM (Jan 20, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> No, mine has roll pins to secure the dials.



Mine uses set screws.  Seems to me you will be loosing a good 4-5 inches of usable(?) travel on one end doing this?


----------



## David_R8 (Jan 20, 2021)

I'll lose some, I don't think it will be that much though. I'll take some measurements late today.


----------



## YYCHM (Jan 20, 2021)

Should this be considered usable travel or not?


----------



## David_R8 (Jan 20, 2021)

I guess it could be considered usable if you need it. 
I just measured my table. 
I have 18” of table that has T-slots. 
If I line up the vertical edge of the table with the base and mark it with the edge of the Y-axis casting and then crank to the end of the T-slots I will lose 4” of travel to the left. 
This isn’t a concern to me as I don’t have any need to have that much travel.


----------



## YYCHM (Jan 20, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> No, mine has roll pins to secure the dials.



Are you planning to pin the drive gear to the lead screw then?


----------



## David_R8 (Jan 20, 2021)

This is the arrangement I have now.
I may make a thicker mounting block which will space the drive further out from the table. I have some leeway because of the depth of the hub that carries the vernier markings.


----------



## YYCHM (Jan 20, 2021)

Got you now.  Ya, mine if roll pinned on right side as well.  So does the PF have to be mounted on the right side?


----------



## David_R8 (Jan 20, 2021)

It doesn’t have to be but if mounted on the left the controls will be on the back.


----------



## YYCHM (Jan 20, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> It doesn’t have to be but if mounted on the left the controls will be on the back.



That sucks


----------



## David_R8 (Jan 20, 2021)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> That sucks



Are you left handed?


----------



## YYCHM (Jan 20, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> Are you left handed?



Nope.  Are you?


----------



## David_R8 (Jan 20, 2021)

No, I'm extremely right handed 
I need to make a duct cover to cover the bevel gear. Even though I never use the dial I will include the indicator mark.


----------



## David_R8 (Jan 23, 2021)

John Conroy said:


> Yeah it's hard to know whether the picture or the description is incorrect with these guys. I gambled that the description was accurate and the picture was generic and got lucky. They do respond to emails at support@vevor.ca so you could try that before they ship. They were slow to ship my order and responded quickly after I emailed to ask why. It was shortly after Christmas and they were very busy but responded the same day.



Well I sent an email to Vevor and haven’t received a response. 
Not sure what to think of that but not great service.


----------



## David_R8 (Jan 31, 2021)

Spent some time today on shop storage projects. 
Built a drawer for the lathe bench. 












And a chuck storage rack


----------



## YotaBota (Jan 31, 2021)

This afternoon I was thinking about how to store the chucks and plates, thanks for the idea.


----------



## DPittman (Jan 31, 2021)

YotaBota said:


> This afternoon I was thinking about how to store the chucks and plates, thanks for the idea.


And I making a way to hold my tailstock centers...


----------



## Dabbler (Jan 31, 2021)

FYI I made this board to fit just under the headstock to store all the bigger accessories:


----------



## David_R8 (Feb 13, 2021)

Yesterday I got started on the power feed for my RF30 clone.
I bought a cheap Vevor powerfeed that I'll have to adapt to fit. Need to enlarge the bore of the gear first. Got it dialed in the 4-jaw yesterday while my sweetie watched, completely intrigued by the process. She asked if she could watch the boring but I didn't feel well enough to try it. So today I sit on the couch trying to beat off whatever malady ails me.


----------



## YYCHM (Feb 13, 2021)

I was just about to ask where you were with that project...…...

Got the Covid lockdown blues?


----------



## David_R8 (Feb 13, 2021)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> I was just about to ask where you were with that project...…...
> 
> Got the Covid lockdown blues?


No blues, I'm actually sick. I don't have Covid symptoms just headache and general malaise.


----------



## Dusty (Feb 13, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> Not, I'm actually sick. I don't have Covid symptoms just headache and general malaise.



Whatever the issue do take care of yourself then hurry back.


----------



## David_R8 (Feb 13, 2021)

Dusty said:


> Whatever the issue do take care of yourself then hurry back.


Thanks Dusty, I've been under the weather for about two weeks now. I actually don't know what's going on.


----------



## YotaBota (Feb 13, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> I've been under the weather for about two weeks now.


Wasn't that about the time I saw you?????? cough cough sniffle sniffle,,,lol, 
Just toying with your emotion, take care and have sweetie make you some chicken soup.


----------



## David_R8 (Feb 16, 2021)

Small update on my health. 
I’ve been admitted to hospital with multiple pulmonary embolisms. 
Not the end of the world but not to be trifled with. 
On a positive note, the vendor for the power feed unit refunded me $120 of the $168 total cost due to misrepresentation of the product and failure to communicate with me.


----------



## Chicken lights (Feb 16, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> Small update on my health.
> I’ve been admitted to hospital with multiple pulmonary embolisms.
> Not the end of the world but not to be trifled with.
> On a positive note, the vendor for the power feed unit refunded me $120 of the $168 total cost due to misrepresentation of the product and failure to communicate with me.


Dang it 
Speedy recovery


----------



## David_R8 (Feb 16, 2021)

Thanks mate, I’ll be out making chips very soon, likely 24 hrs


----------



## YYCHM (Feb 16, 2021)

Yikes!!!! I had to look that one up.   Get well soon Bro.


----------



## Dusty (Feb 16, 2021)

Miss your wild and wacky shop projects all ready.  Not much fun being laid up in sick bay unless the nurses are too cute. LOL

Take care, hurry back because we miss you!


----------



## Hruul (Feb 16, 2021)

Yikes, speedy recovery David.  Great deal on the power feed.


----------



## YYCHM (Feb 16, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> .On a positive note, the vendor for the power feed unit refunded me $120 of the $168 total cost due to misrepresentation of the product and failure to communicate with me.



What's the story on the power feed? What was misrepresented?  You got $120 back and kept the PF?


----------



## David_R8 (Feb 16, 2021)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> What's the story on the power feed? What was misrepresented? You got $120 back and kept the PF?



The pics were all X-axis feeds and I had asked about that. Their response was completely nonsense and said everything was fine. 
So I guess they felt badly and gave me back a bunch of money for my trouble. 
Thanks for all the well wishes. I’m getting great care!


----------



## Brent H (Feb 16, 2021)

Speedy recovery @David_R8  - if I lived closer I would make sure your surface grinder wasn't lonely....get well soon!


----------



## David_R8 (Feb 16, 2021)

Brent H said:


> Speedy recovery @David_R8 - if I lived closer I would make sure your surface grinder wasn't lonely....get well soon!



I’m sure it would appreciate the company!


----------



## francist (Feb 16, 2021)

Wow David, sorry to hear that. I was almost to the point of shooting you a note today just to check in, hadn’t heard from your usual self lately. Get well and back to the shop soon.

-frank


----------



## John Conroy (Feb 16, 2021)

Get well soon David. Glad your didn't let Vevor get away with their sloppy advertising.


----------



## David_R8 (Feb 16, 2021)

francist said:


> Wow David, sorry to hear that. I was almost to the point of shooting you a note today just to check in, hadn’t heard from your usual self lately. Get well and back to the shop soon.
> 
> -frank



Thanks Frank, I’m an edge case apparently. All my vitals are completely normal but they want to run some additional tests. 
I’ll do my level best to get better soon!


----------



## David_R8 (Feb 16, 2021)

John Conroy said:


> Get well soon David. Glad your didn't let Vevor get away with their sloppy advertising.



Thanks John. 
I can see the ring gear all set up in my 4-jaw, ready for my return!


----------



## francist (Feb 16, 2021)

Oh I always figured you for an edge case alright...


----------



## David_R8 (Feb 16, 2021)

francist said:


> Oh I always figured you for an edge case alright...



I told my partner that all my vitals were normal and she said that better not be my epitaph. 
I replied that I’m actually abnormal but still a nice guy


----------



## YotaBota (Feb 16, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> I’m actually abnormal but still a nice guy


I can vouch for that.  lol 
Look after yourself and if I can lend a hand with anything don't hesitate to give me a call.


----------



## David_R8 (Feb 16, 2021)

YotaBota said:


> I can vouch for that. lol
> Look after yourself and if I can lend a hand with anything don't hesitate to give me a call.



Thanks mate, I expect to return to active duty tomorrow sometime. Thursday at the latest. Really appreciate everyone’s support!


----------



## Tom O (Feb 16, 2021)

Don’t eat the food “ It‘s a trap! “


----------



## David_R8 (Feb 16, 2021)

In a wild stroke of luck they released me!
So no risk of food related illness!


----------



## DPittman (Feb 16, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> Small update on my health.
> I’ve been admitted to hospital with multiple pulmonary embolisms.
> Not the end of the world but not to be trifled with.
> On a positive note, the vendor for the power feed unit refunded me $120 of the $168 total cost due to misrepresentation of the product and failure to communicate with me.


Wow that ain't no fun!   Glad to hear your being taken care of and are on the mend.  Sending you good vibes your way.


----------



## David_R8 (Feb 16, 2021)

DPittman said:


> Wow that ain't no fun! Glad to hear your being taken care of and are on the mend. Sending you good vibes your way.



Thanks mate, it’s a risk I’ve run since 2004 when I first developed the blood clot in my leg.


----------



## CalgaryPT (Feb 16, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> Thanks mate, it’s a risk I’ve run since 2004 when I first developed the blood clot in my leg.


Take care David...we need you here 

I had a acquaintance with the same condition. He was a kale addict. Apparently there is a connection between certain foods and this condition.


----------



## David_R8 (Feb 16, 2021)

CalgaryPT said:


> Take care David...we need you here
> 
> I had a acquaintance with the same condition. He was a kale addict. Apparently there is a connection between certain foods and this condition.



Thanks Pete, seems you’re stuck with me! 
Between my partner and excellent medical care I’m in good hands 

Kale (and most leafy green veggies) are high in vitamin K which is the antidote to anticoagulants. I expect that your acquaintance probably raised his clotting factor too high. 

If I have to have surgery they will give me a shot of vitamin K so that I don’t bleed out.


----------



## trlvn (Feb 17, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> In a wild stroke of luck they released me!
> So no risk of food related illness!


Take good care and best wishes for a full and speedy recovery.  I'm sure they've got you on quite a regime at home.  I had to do Fragmin injections (blood thinner) for 4 weeks after surgery recently.  I coerced my wife into administering them.  She's game but if she had any inclination to go into health care, she wouldn't have spent all these years in banking!  My GP was able to give her some coaching and then we both did much better.

Craig


----------



## YYCHM (Feb 17, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> The pics were all X-axis feeds and I had asked about that. Their response was completely nonsense and said everything was fine.



What are the differences between what you got and what you thought you were getting?


----------



## David_R8 (Feb 17, 2021)

trlvn said:


> Take good care and best wishes for a full and speedy recovery. I'm sure they've got you on quite a regime at home. I had to do Fragmin injections (blood thinner) for 4 weeks after surgery recently. I coerced my wife into administering them. She's game but if she had any inclination to go into health care, she wouldn't have spent all these years in banking! My GP was able to give her some coaching and then we both did much better.
> 
> Craig



Thanks Craig, between the docs and my partner I’m getting good care. 
I’ve had heparin injections in the past and they were not fun. Tiny needles, big pain! 
Thankfully I get to skip that torture this time.


----------



## David_R8 (Feb 17, 2021)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> What are the differences between what you got and what you thought you were getting?



The bracket that attaches to the table is what’s missing. I can easily make one so it’s not a big deal just annoying. Especially when the styrofoam packaging had a spot for it.


----------



## Crankit (Feb 17, 2021)

Heal up quick David! I hope you have a laptop with Fusion on it for you can design up some projects while you heal.

Cheers

Wayne


----------



## David_R8 (Feb 17, 2021)

Crankit said:


> Heal up quick David! I hope you have a laptop with Fusion on it for you can design up some projects while you heal.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Wayne



Thanks Wayne, I do have my laptop with Fusion on it. 
I’ve been putting in as much practice as my brain can handle


----------



## YotaBota (Feb 17, 2021)

David_R8 - I've still got the BP style mount that came with my PF, if you can use it it's yours.


----------



## David_R8 (Feb 17, 2021)

YotaBota said:


> David_R8 - I've still got the BP style mount that came with my PF, if you can use it it's yours.


Gosh that'd be great. That would save me a bunch of layout and machining steps!
No great rush, let me know your schedule and we can sort out delivery.


----------



## David_R8 (Feb 17, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> Gosh that'd be great. That would save me a bunch of layout and machining steps!
> No great rush, let me know your schedule and we can sort out delivery.


@YotaBota Does it look like this?


----------



## YotaBota (Feb 17, 2021)

That's it. I was able to bolt my PF directly to the boss on the table without said bracket.


----------



## David_R8 (Feb 17, 2021)

YotaBota said:


> That's it. I was able to bolt my PF directly to the boss on the table without said bracket.


Sweet, I'll definitely take it!


----------



## YotaBota (Feb 17, 2021)

Done, I'm going to do a KMS run next week so I'll text you when that is going to happen.


----------



## David_R8 (Feb 17, 2021)

YotaBota said:


> Done, I'm going to do a KMS run next week so I'll text you when that is going to happen.


Cool! Thanks mate, I really appreciate it!


----------



## Tom O (Mar 3, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> Thanks Pete, seems you’re stuck with me!
> Between my partner and excellent medical care I’m in good hands
> 
> Kale (and most leafy green veggies) are high in vitamin K which is the antidote to anticoagulants. I expect that your acquaintance probably raised his clotting factor too high.
> ...


I’m curious do you eat a lot of ginger? When I was on blood thinners and was getting monitored weekly I ate a bag of candied ginger and the next test they told me to stop taking the thinners and any problems go straight to the hospital it took a good week to balance itself out.


----------



## David_R8 (Mar 3, 2021)

Tom O said:


> I’m curious do you eat a lot of ginger? When I was on blood thinners and was getting monitored weekly I ate a bag of candied ginger and the next test they told me to stop taking the thinners and any problems go straight to the hospital it took a good week to balance itself out.


Interesting, I appreciate that information as I'm more wary of and avoid things that counteract the thinners but wasn't aware of foods that increase their effects. 
We do have candied ginger in the house and I have a piece likely every other day, maybe more often.


----------



## Tom O (Mar 3, 2021)

I’m not sure how much it takes to change blood levels like I said I ate a bag, probably 
300 g over a 3 day Period.


----------



## David_R8 (Mar 3, 2021)

I'm likely not eating an amount that would alter the levels but always good to know!


----------



## David_R8 (Mar 5, 2021)

I finally felt well enough to venture into the shop so I took the afternoon off.
Made serious progress on the mill power feed.
Originally I planned to mount the feed on the right side of the table. That would have required boring out the ring gear to fit the end of the lead screw.
For reasons unknown to me, the two ends of the lead screw are different diameter. The left side fit the ring gear perfectly. So I revised the plan and decided to put it on the left side of the table.
I also decided to lay the drive horizontally front to back as that gave me more clearance over the base of the mill.
This also allowed me to use the round mounting collar that came with the unit.
(Huge thanks to @YotaBota for donating the regular horizontal mount but it proved unnecessary in the end.)

I faced off 1/2” of the collar and then bored it out so it slipped over the snout of the cast iron bracket that bolts onto the table.
(The pic below is a test to make sure it would fit snug on the bracket)







I then positioned the ring so the two of the three mounting holes in the above photo were horizontal on the cast iron bracket.
None of the two tapped holes in the collar matched up with the many holes in the unit but two spots were partially drilled and those worked perfectly.






The gear and shaft is long so I parted it off at the threads.











I still have to figure out how to secure the gear to the lead screw. It has a key way but there isn’t a matching one on the lead screw and don’t have a way to cut one into it. I may cross drill it and use a roll pin but I’d like to be able to adjust the gear mesh.
Another idea is to drill and tap the gear for a set screw or a pair of them on opposite sides. The lead screw is not hardened so I could easily file a flat into it for the screw(s) to land.

Edit: I also need to figure out a cover for the gear so that swarf and chips don't get in there. 
One option is to make one from aluminum, the other option is to CAD one up and 3D print it.


----------



## YotaBota (Mar 6, 2021)

Cross drilling won't be my first choice because, as you stated, there is no way for any future adjustment. Plus the fact that you weaken the shaft at that point.
You may have been premature in cutting the gear shaft, how are you going to secure the gear at the required clearance?
Do you know any one with a milling machine that might let you use it to cut the keyway in your lead screw? wink wink nudge nudge.


----------



## David_R8 (Mar 6, 2021)

YotaBota said:


> Cross drilling won't be my first choice because, as you stated, there is no way for any future adjustment. Plus the fact that you weaken the shaft at that point.
> You may have been premature in cutting the gear shaft, how are you going to secure the gear at the required clearance?
> Do you know any one with a milling machine that might let you use it to cut the keyway in your lead screw? wink wink nudge nudge.



Sorry I don’t think I was really clear. 
I haven’t cut anything except the long end of the brass gear. There’s still plenty of material to secure the gear to the shaft.
The key way is tiny, probably only a 2mm wide by 1cm long. I’ve had to search for the key once already when it went skittering off the bench.


----------



## DPittman (Mar 6, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> I finally felt well enough to venture into the shop so I took the afternoon off.
> Made serious progress on the mill power feed.
> Originally I planned to mount the feed on the right side of the table. That would have required boring out the ring gear to fit the end of the lead screw.
> For reasons unknown to me, the two ends of the lead screw are different diameter. The left side fit the ring gear perfectly. So I revised the plan and decided to put it on the left side of the table.
> ...


Good to hear your getting back at it.


----------



## David_R8 (Mar 6, 2021)

DPittman said:


> Good to hear your getting back at it.



Thanks! It felt good to make some chips. 
Even if one of them landed on my nose and burnt me!


----------



## YYCHM (Mar 6, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> I finally felt well enough to venture into the shop so I took the afternoon off.
> Made serious progress on the mill power feed.
> Originally I planned to mount the feed on the right side of the table. That would have required boring out the ring gear to fit the end of the lead screw.
> For reasons unknown to me, the two ends of the lead screw are different diameter. The left side fit the ring gear perfectly. So I revised the plan and decided to put it on the left side of the table.
> ...



I've been looking at this over and over again, and just don't get the arrangement?

I assume the piece you parted off threads into the gear that meshes with the PF gear?

Why would they have that sleeve in the first place?


----------



## David_R8 (Mar 6, 2021)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> I've been looking at this over and over again, and just don't get the arrangement?
> 
> I assume the piece you parted off threads into the gear that meshes with the PF gear?
> 
> Why would they have that sleeve in the first place?


I don’t know what the piece I parted off is for when the unit is used on the Y-axis of a Bridgeport style mill. 
I saw @YotaBota mill but I didn’t notice exactly how it was arranged. 

Here’s a couple of pics that may help. 
This is the unit mounted without the ring gear in place. The pinion gear is to the left of the lead screw. 
There is also a bushing slips over the shaft and runs on a needle bearing in the opening. It’s the silver ring that’s visible around the end of the lead screw. 






Here is the ring gear partiality on the end of the lead screw.


----------



## John Conroy (Mar 7, 2021)

David I see a threaded hole in the end of the shaft I assume fastened the original crank handle. How is torque transfered from the handle to the shaft? Is there a key? Does the handle slide over the OD of the shaft like a Bridgeport style machine? I'm thinking that you might use a collar and selective shims that slip over the shaft to force the brass gear in mesh with the motor pinion and allow adjustment of backlash. All of this stuff to be held in place by the bolt that fastens crank handle. Then perhaps an axial drive pin or 2  through the handle into the end of the brass gear to transfer torque?


----------



## kevin.decelles (Mar 7, 2021)

On my mill (6x26 knee) the part your parted off is for the dual spacer which has the graduations on it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## David_R8 (Mar 7, 2021)

John Conroy said:


> David I see a threaded hole in the end of the shaft I assume fastened the original crank handle. How is torque transfered from the handle to the shaft? Is there a key? Does the handle slide over the OD of the shaft like a Bridgeport style machine? I'm thinking that you might use a collar and selective shims that slip over the shaft to force the brass gear in mesh with the motor pinion and allow adjustment of backlash. All of this stuff to be held in place by the bolt that fastens crank handle. Then perhaps an axial drive pin or 2  through the handle into the end of the brass gear to transfer torque?



You know I never noticed that that hole was so deep, I always thought it was just a centre drill for a live centre when the lead screw was made.
I don't believe it's tapped though.
The handle is attached with a set screw that bears on the shaft. It has a dog style connection that connects a round collar which is pinned to the shaft.
When the handle and collar are in place there's about .25" of shaft sticking out of the handle.
When the brass gear is snugged up to the pinion gear, there is about .75" of shaft sticking out past the brass part. I might try to see if I can make a thinner version of the round collar and see if I can put the handle back on. I'm not sure I'll have enough shaft length though. I suppose I could just put the handle back on and call it good.


----------



## YYCHM (Mar 7, 2021)

David_R8 said:


>



Where did the threaded brass piece in the first image disappear to in the second image?


----------



## David_R8 (Mar 7, 2021)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> Where did the threaded brass piece in the first image disappear to in the second image?


That's what I parted off. 
In the first pic, there's a groove just past the threads. That seemed a logical spot to lop off the excess. I've since parted off an additional .25" or so to make more room on the shaft for another locking collar, or maybe the handle.


----------



## David_R8 (Mar 8, 2021)

Well the power feed is complete save for the collar on the end of the lead screw. 
I 3D printed the grey cover for the gear. 
Works great!


----------



## YYCHM (Mar 8, 2021)

How did you fix the gear to the lead screw?


----------



## David_R8 (Mar 8, 2021)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> How did you fix the gear to the lead screw?



I drilled and tapped it for a set screw.


----------



## YYCHM (Mar 8, 2021)

Can you post an image of the overall installed as it sits on the table please?  How far to the left does it extend past the end of the table?  I'm really tight for space on the left hand side and am wondering if this would work for me.

Thanks,

Craig


----------



## ShawnR (Mar 8, 2021)

I was cranking the left and right, back and forth today, and thinking of you @David_R8 

I think I have to look at adding some motorage to my machine


----------



## David_R8 (Mar 8, 2021)

ShawnR said:


> I was cranking the left and right, back and forth today, and thinking of you @David_R8
> 
> I think I have to look at adding some motorage to my machine



I haven’t used it to mill but I can tell you that cranking that table was getting real old fast. 
It was a dead easy project on my mill. 
I think it would have been several times more difficult had I stuck with the plan to mount it on the right side.


----------



## YYCHM (Mar 8, 2021)

If your right handed it belongs on the left side IMHO.


----------



## ShawnR (Mar 8, 2021)

@David_R8 ,......I have a Sieg X3, small by the standards I see on these machining forums. Adding motorization, and even CNC to them though is well documented on the web. As much as I have had it for a while, I have not used it much but now with more time on it, my mind is starting to drift,.....motor on at least X and Z axis, DRO, ......mmmmmmm    slurp...... 

Posts like yours are inspiring....thank you!


----------



## David_R8 (Mar 8, 2021)

ShawnR said:


> I have a Sieg X3, small by the standards I see on these machining forums. Adding motorization to them though is well documented on the web. As much as I have had it for a while, I have not used it much but now with more time on it, my mind is starting to drift,.....motor on at least X and Z axis, DRO, ......mmmmmmm slurp......
> 
> Posts like yours are inspiring....thank you!


Happy you found it inspiring!

If I’m not mistaken Pragmatic Lee did a video on the X-axis power feed that he built for his X3 mill. Really slick design.


----------



## YYCHM (Mar 8, 2021)

A 3 axis DRO on a mill is a must have as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## David_R8 (Mar 8, 2021)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> A 3 axis DRO on a mill is a must have as far as I'm concerned.



Yup. Definitely agree.
Here’s a pic Craig
It’s 6.5” from the end of the table to the top of the handle.
4.25” from the edge of the table to the side of power feed housing.
It takes up less room than the handle did.


----------



## David_R8 (Mar 8, 2021)

@Brent H now I can slot the faceplate! 
I couldn't afford the physio bill that would come with cranking the mill table that much


----------



## Brent H (Mar 8, 2021)

@David_R8 - excellent!!!!   More “power feed” to ya!!


----------



## YYCHM (Mar 8, 2021)

This would work for me.  What dia is your lead screw on the LH side?

Did you end up covering over a gitz oiler on the LH side lead screw support casting?  I assume you ended up drilling and taping the support casting correct?


----------



## David_R8 (Mar 8, 2021)

[mention]YYCHobbyMachinist [/mention] oddly there is only an oiler on the right side bracket. 
I don’t know the diameter but I’ll measure it for you.
I did drill and tap the bracket. A couple of 1/4-20 SHCS.


----------



## YYCHM (Mar 8, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> [mention]YYCHobbyMachinist [/mention] oddly there is only an oiler on the right side bracket.
> I don’t know the diameter but I’ll measure it for you.
> I did drill and tap the bracket. A couple of 1/4-20 SHCS.



Found it thanks.  5/8".

https://canadianhobbymetalworkers.c...-find-for-my-milling-machine.2820/#post-35789

Mine is 17mm (0.668").  Would I be able to bore that gear out to 0.668"?


----------



## David_R8 (Mar 8, 2021)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> Found it thanks. 5/8".
> 
> https://canadianhobbymetalworkers.c...-find-for-my-milling-machine.2820/#post-35789
> 
> Mine is 17mm (0.668"). Would I be able to bore that gear out to 0.668"?



Oh definitely. There’s a lot of material. 
The outside of the hub that remains is 33mm in diameter. 
(I remember that because I designed the cover in mm).


----------



## YYCHM (Mar 9, 2021)

Rats...… appear to be sold out of all power feeds.

https://vevor.ca/products/power-fee...or-bridgeport-type-milling-machines-0-200-rpm


----------



## David_R8 (Mar 9, 2021)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> Rats...… appear to be sold out of all power feeds.
> 
> https://vevor.ca/products/power-fee...or-bridgeport-type-milling-machines-0-200-rpm



They are available through Vevor.com for 145 US.


----------



## YYCHM (Mar 9, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> They are available through Vevor.com for 145 US.



Vevor.com doesn't ship outside the US.  Vevor.ca is out-of-stock.

Interesting though.  Their RF30 style feed is only $145 as well.


----------



## David_R8 (Mar 9, 2021)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> Vevor.com doesn't ship outside the US. Vevor.ca is out-of-stock.
> 
> Interesting though. Their RF30 style feed is only $145 as well.



The challenge with the RF30 style is the width.


----------



## YYCHM (Mar 9, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> The challenge with the RF30 style is the width.



As in how far it extends the table to the left?  Ya, that's a problem for me.


----------



## YYCHM (Mar 9, 2021)

So it looks like you lucked out getting the Y-Axis model instead of the X-Axis model as you got the round mounting ring.  Is that correct or do they both come with that ring?


----------



## David_R8 (Mar 9, 2021)

As far as I know the Y comes with the ring and the X comes with the plate. 
I actually think that the ring could be easily made as it’s just a ring with some through holes and some tapped holes.


----------



## Crankit (Mar 9, 2021)

Kinda a silly question but have you looked at the power feeds on Amazon?


----------



## David_R8 (Mar 9, 2021)

Crankit said:


> Kinda a silly question but have you looked at the power feeds on Amazon?


Yes, they are all outrageously expensive. I paid $186 and they refunded me money because of it being mis-advertised.


----------



## Crankit (Mar 9, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> Yes, they are all outrageously expensive. I paid $186 and they refunded me money because of it being mis-advertised.



Wow....big price difference!


----------



## David_R8 (Mar 9, 2021)

Crankit said:


> Wow....big price difference!


Yup, the only reason I went for this was because of how inexpensive it was.


----------



## YotaBota (Mar 9, 2021)

Man, the prices really have gone stupid. I paid $180 for mine and I see it's listed anywhere from $540 to over $1k. May as well buy the Align at $540,,,,,, if it is actually an Align.


----------



## David_R8 (Mar 9, 2021)

Here's a clip of the power feed, well feeding I suppose.


----------



## historicalarms (Mar 9, 2021)

That is a lot clicking & thumping going on compared to my Align.  It almost sounds on the video that it has a "pulse" to the movement. My Align just smoothly hums away no clicking throughout the speed spectrum. Also mine appears to move the table faster with less motor rpm/whine.


----------



## David_R8 (Mar 9, 2021)

historicalarms said:


> That is a lot clicking & thumping going on compared to my Align. It just smoothly hums away no clicking throughout the speed spectrum. Also mine appears to move the table faster with less motor rpm/whine.


It's definitely noisy, I may not have the gear lash just right yet. But it was only $60


----------



## historicalarms (Mar 9, 2021)

If it works, who cares what it sounds like in the long run...and ya I paid a lotttt more than $60.


----------



## YYCHM (Mar 9, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> It's definitely noisy, I may not have the gear lash just right yet. But it was only $60



Ohhhhh….. I wish....  With my shot hearing I wouldn't notice.


----------



## David_R8 (Mar 9, 2021)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> Ohhhhh….. I wish....  With my shot hearing I wouldn't notice.


I feel pretty fortunate to have snagged the deal I got.


----------



## YYCHM (Mar 19, 2021)

https://vevor.ca/products/power-fee...achines-0-200-rpm?_pos=1&_sid=6ab528051&_ss=r

Hey David,

Is this the one you intended to get?  You think this would work on my RF30?

Appears to be no shipping charge?

Craig


----------



## David_R8 (Mar 19, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> https://vevor.ca/products/power-fee...achines-0-200-rpm?_pos=1&_sid=6ab528051&_ss=r
> 
> Hey David,
> 
> ...


Yes it is. Note that the pictures, title and description are not consistent for either an X or Y axis drive.
The box it came in said Y-Axis on the outside but the styrofoam packing was clearly for an X-axis feed as the metal collar didn't fit any of the molded areas.
When I asked about it they said not to worry it is X-axis. 
When I got it it was a Y-axis drive. I complained and they refunded me money. 
In the end it was OK so I feel like I made out like a bandit. 

Title says Y-Axis
In the Features and Details it says X-Axis




Then further down it says Y-Axis.


----------



## YotaBota (Mar 19, 2021)

That's a good price compared to Amazon. 
Besides the BP style mounting bracket, what's the difference between the models for X and Y movement?


----------



## YYCHM (Mar 19, 2021)

YotaBota said:


> That's a good price compared to Amazon.
> Besides the BP style mounting bracket, what's the difference between the models for X and Y movement?



That's a good price compared to AliExpress to.

@David_R8 is the gearing arrangement the same between yours and this one?  My other concern is that I have a 17mm lead screw not 5/8"

Craig


----------



## David_R8 (Mar 19, 2021)

YotaBota said:


> That's a good price compared to Amazon.
> Besides the BP style mounting bracket, what's the difference between the models for X and Y movement?


I honestly don't think there's any difference. Everything in the photos looks like what I received except it doesn't show the bushing to adapt the 5/8' shaft to the inner diameter of the needle bearing inside the drive housing or the piece to extend the shaft to attach the handle.



YYCHM said:


> That's a good price compared to AliExpress to.
> 
> @David_R8 is the gearing arrangement the same between yours and this one?  My other concern is that I have a 17mm lead screw not 5/8"
> 
> Craig


It looks identical. When I log into my account and click on the product I ordered it goes to the link you shared.
There is plenty of wall thickness on the gear to bore it out to 17mm. 5/8" is 15.87mm so only need to open the bore by 1.13mm.
I was originally going to bore it out and put it on the right end of the table but when I saw that the gear fit perfectly on the left side it was an easy decision.


----------



## YYCHM (Mar 19, 2021)

Done Ordered.  No shipping charge?  Say's it ships from Australia?


----------



## David_R8 (Mar 19, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> Done Ordered.  No shipping charge?  Say's it ships from Australia?


Wow, mine came from Ontario.


----------



## YYCHM (Mar 19, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> Wow, mine came from Ontario.



No tax added?  It will be interesting to see where it ships from.

And the ad looks to be messed up.  Image of a x-axis kit yet a mixture of x and y axis in the description. 

In any event if it's useable I'll be a happy camper.


----------



## David_R8 (Mar 19, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> And the ad looks to be messed up.  Image of a x-axis kit yet a mixture of x and y axis in the description.


Yup, that was what I was trying to illustrate with those pics. It's completely confusing.


----------



## kevin.decelles (Mar 19, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> Done Ordered. No shipping charge? Say's it ships from Australia?



Here we go again ! I’m rooting for ya yyc


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## David_R8 (Mar 19, 2021)

I'll make a call @YYCHM, it'll be all good


----------



## YYCHM (Mar 19, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> I'll make a call @YYCHM, it'll be all good



Just got an email saying it has been shipped.  This is the link to the tracking info https://www.51tracking.com/


----------



## David_R8 (Mar 19, 2021)

What’s the tracking number?
(My Cantonese is only marginal...)


----------



## YYCHM (Mar 19, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> What’s the tracking number?
> (My Cantonese is only marginal...)



8548587671644210 ????? Maybe???  or this 1127890714739 ??? Kind of strange to get something like that from a .ca website?


----------



## YotaBota (Mar 19, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> Say's it ships from Australia?


????? We need one of those little "head scratcher" emoji things.
Fingers crossed for you.


----------



## YYCHM (Mar 19, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> What’s the tracking number?
> (My Cantonese is only marginal...)



What manner of tracking info did you get with your vivor.ca order?


----------



## David_R8 (Mar 19, 2021)

It was shipped via UPS so typical UPS tracking.


----------



## YYCHM (Mar 21, 2021)

Ok,  the 8548587671644210 number shows as a valid CP tracking number issued in the right time frame.  Looks like the 26th for delivery.  It must be being shipped from within CA, CP tracking doesn't show the origin yet?


----------



## David_R8 (Mar 21, 2021)

That’s great news!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## YYCHM (Mar 21, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> That’s great news!



That tracking link they provided really had me worried.  I emailed customer service for tracking info in English, they haven't responded yet.


----------



## David_R8 (Mar 21, 2021)

Looks like it’s in the system now. 








Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## YYCHM (Mar 24, 2021)

VIVOR finally got back to me about the Chinese tracking info.  It WILL BE shipped via CP however it HASN'T actually shipped yet. Apparently, their automated ordering system was just a tad premature with issuing the shipped email


----------



## David_R8 (Mar 24, 2021)

I guess they aren't McMasterCarr


----------



## DPittman (Mar 24, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> VIVOR finally got back to me about the Chinese tracking info.  It WILL BE shipped via CP however it HASN'T actually shipped yet. Apparently, their automated ordering system was just a tad premature with issuing the shipped email


Hey that sounds just like AliExpress.


----------



## Janger (Mar 24, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> https://vevor.ca/products/power-fee...achines-0-200-rpm?_pos=1&_sid=6ab528051&_ss=r
> 
> Hey David,
> 
> ...



I was looking at some tool holders on vivor so I checked BBB.org not being familiar with them. They get an F! There are lots of scathing reviews if you look around. I think they must specialize in old stuff that has issues so it’s cheap. Maybe they resell other sellers returned goods for cheap?


----------



## David_R8 (Mar 25, 2021)

No idea. But for the $60 I paid I’m plenty happy with my power feed. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## YYCHM (Mar 25, 2021)

Not all that impressed with these guys


----------



## Brent H (Mar 25, 2021)

@YYCHM : I ordered side boards for my new truck from BC shipped Fedex.  Ordered them Feb 10, shipped Feb 11 and they never arrived.  Took me a week after they never showed up (March 13) to get my money back - and my order disappeared after it "shipped" - the seller told me to contact FedEx to locate them as they were having no luck....at least you can see yours are in "transit" and that means HOPE!


----------



## ShawnR (Mar 25, 2021)

Yea, COVID baby!...seems the universal excuse these days. I ordered this week from DigiKey. As long as I can remember if I order before noon one day, it is on my doorstep the next day. Don't know how they do it (for $8 too) but it has been solid. I ordered this week from them and 3 days later, I still do not have confirmation of shipping....

Strange times.....


----------



## YYCHM (Mar 29, 2021)

Delivered 3 days ahead of schedule.  They sent the X-Axis kit not the Y-Axis


----------



## David_R8 (Mar 29, 2021)

I'd send them an email. You may end up with a refund like me.


----------



## David_R8 (Apr 2, 2021)

I took 5 mins and drilled and tapped two opposing 1/4-20 holes into the brass power feed gear for a better purchase on the lead screw shaft. Also filed two flats for them to seat on. Snugged the gear back on works even better now.
Acting on @YYCHM's idea I also reoriented the lever  so that it's more obviously left and right. There's a slotted screw in the knob and a set screw in the lever. the set screw was hellish tight. I almost didn't proceed because initially I couldn't get it to budge.




A roll pin limits the lever movement. A total of three places where it could be located. I moved it to the hole directly beside the original position.




Back on.




All I have left to do is add the limit switches.
@YYCHM your cover is printed. I'll get it packaged up today for mailing tomorrow.


----------



## YYCHM (Apr 2, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> All I have left to do is add the limit switches.



Have fun installing this switch cover






Don't know why it's necessary but it is sure a PITA to put on.  Something I don't like about this arrangement is that you lose the use of the hard stops


----------



## David_R8 (Apr 2, 2021)

I'll give it a go after lunch methinks.


----------



## David_R8 (Apr 2, 2021)

After bumping along with the lump that is my vise handle I made a quick modification.
The biggest issue I had was the thing was too long so always smacked into the Y-axis handwheel.
So I put it in the bandsaw and lopped off about two inches. I thought I'd just sand the cut end down and call it good till I make a speed handle.
But I looked at the round end and decided to fit it back onto the handle.
I cut the stub off, drilled a hole and counter bore for a 1/4-20 SCHS.
Held the handle bit vertically in my crappy drill press vise and drilled for a 1/4-20 thread.
Turned out pretty alright for 20 mins work.


----------



## DPittman (Apr 2, 2021)

Good easy fix.


----------



## YYCHM (Apr 2, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> I'll give it a go after lunch methinks.



Methinks you got side tracked LOL.  Vise Handle.... CNC Plasma Cutter...


----------



## David_R8 (Apr 2, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> Methinks you got side tracked LOL.  Vice Handle.... CNC Plasma Cutter...


Yup. I had to add bigger set screws to the gear, then I got to work on the plasma cutter but got fed up with the handle as I was about to drill and tap the gears. Off with its head!


----------



## David_R8 (May 17, 2021)

I bought the 4-jaw chuck from @Phaneron for use on my rotary table.
It is a rear mount chuck so I drilled the mounting holes through to the front and counterbored for SHCSs.
Turned out great.
Just need to make some T-nuts to fit the table.


----------



## David_R8 (May 29, 2021)

Whipped up a trellis for the clematis on our shed. There will be another on the opposite side plus a connecting piece over the top.


----------



## David_R8 (Mar 26, 2022)

A while back I bought a Makita track saw so I could more easily break down sheet goods. 
I wanted a set of parallel guides to make repeatable cuts. Looked around and darn near fell over at the cost. Delivered to my house a 30” pair of TSO guides would have been almost $425. 
Decided to make my own. 
Bought a pair of 48” Incra T-tracks for $22 from Busy Bee. A pair of adjustable stops for $12, four 5/16” knobs and a pair of T brackets will get me sorted. 
Only problem was the T-nuts on the stops were a very loose fit in the track. 
So I made a new set that are a slip fit in the track so they lock the stop square.



This is how it is assembled. 
5/16” bolts in the saw track and the T-track. Knobs so it can be disassembled.


----------



## Susquatch (Mar 27, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> Behold the chaos @YYCHobbyMachinist!
> I am embarrassed by this



I know this is an old photo, but I really enjoy looking at pictures (or visiting) other shops.

Sometimes I feel like we should have a chaos and best organized competition. I like them all. 

I can't help but think I would be a bit prouder of a neater shop, but then I realize mine would never be like that. It's just not my nature. At my age, I'm not about to change very easily and the mental stress of trying to be someone I'm not would prolly kill me. 

FWIW, @David_R8 , I think that photo of your shop is neat compared to mine. But I also have tractors, farm equipment, and a boat in mine. 

Any chance you have a recent photo of the same area that you care to share?


----------



## Susquatch (Mar 27, 2022)

@YYCHM , @David_R8 

I confess you guys got my interest with your Vevor $60 power axis. I considered buying one too. 

But it looks like they have both increased the price to $300 AND then discontinued it too! 

So you both lucked out big time! 

I'll have a look on Ali & Bangood but fully expect the confusion to be much worse! Did either of you ever figure out how to get the x VS y confusion on the Vevor website straight?


----------



## David_R8 (Mar 27, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> I know this is an old photo, but I really enjoy looking at pictures (or visiting) other shops.
> 
> Sometimes I feel like we should have a chaos and best organized competition. I like them all.
> 
> ...


Hah, yeah I'll shoot one from the same vantage point today. Different stuff, same mess


----------



## David_R8 (Mar 28, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> I know this is an old photo, but I really enjoy looking at pictures (or visiting) other shops.
> 
> Sometimes I feel like we should have a chaos and best organized competition. I like them all.
> 
> ...


Here you go.
As I said, different stuff; the surface grinder is gone from the corner. In it's place is the CNC router.
Now that I have a bit of CNC design/build under my belt I may embark on a rebuild of my CNC plasma cutter.
We shall see...


----------



## Susquatch (Mar 28, 2022)

Nice @David_R8 !  Looks like my kind of shop. I think you described it perfectly!

Edit - Btw, I see you got your photo uploads working again.


----------



## David_R8 (Mar 28, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Nice @David_R8 !  Looks like my kind of shop. I think you described it perfectly!
> 
> Btw, just wondering what it took to get your photo uploads working again?


Thanks!
I'm planning another big shop renovation 
The only thing I did differently was I emailed the pic to myself instead of exporting as jpeg from Preview.


----------



## DPittman (Mar 28, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> Here you go.
> As I said, different stuff; the surface grinder is gone from the corner. In it's place is the CNC router.
> Now that I have a bit of CNC design/build under my belt I may embark on a rebuild of my CNC plasma cutter.
> We shall see...
> View attachment 22534


Looks like a place alot of good things happen.


----------



## David_R8 (Mar 28, 2022)

This is what I’m thinking about for redesign.
Woodworking on the left side. Motorcycle storage is at the top right and metal work will be in the lower right.


----------



## David_R8 (Mar 28, 2022)

DPittman said:


> Looks like a place alot of good things happen.


It's definitely a place where a lot of mistakes are made


----------



## Susquatch (Mar 28, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> This is what I’m thinking about for redesign.
> Woodworking on the left side. Motorcycle storage is at the top right and metal work will be in the lower right.
> View attachment 22539



I like it. My place is organized chaos too. But I did separate wood working from metal working. No curtain or walls. But there is a big multilevel storage rack system in between them that I got from a pet shop when they were renovating. They were taking them to the scrap yard. But they are heavy duty racks rated for skids so I offered to drive them away for them! Wish I was there two days earlier.


----------



## Dan Dubeau (Mar 28, 2022)

I got rid of my woodworking tools from my shop too.  Some out in the barn, others in the basement.  Garage went strictly metal.  I made the mistake a couple weeks ago of cutting some 2x4s out there It was cold outside . on the miter saw, and was instantly reminded of why mixing the two in one space is a bad idea lol.  I'm still reminded of it weeks later as the wood dust just gets everywhere.  

Looks like a great space David.


----------



## David_R8 (Mar 28, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> I like it. My place is organized chaos too. But I did separate wood working from metal working. No curtain or walls. But there is a big multilevel storage rack system in between them that I got from a pet shop when they were renovating. They were taking them to the scrap yard. But they are heavy duty racks rated for skids so I offered to drive them away for them! Wish I was there two days earlier.


Part of the reason for the wall is to gain some more wall space.


----------



## David_R8 (Mar 28, 2022)

Dan Dubeau said:


> I got rid of my woodworking tools from my shop too.  Some out in the barn, others in the basement.  Garage went strictly metal.  I made the mistake a couple weeks ago of cutting some 2x4s out there It was cold outside . on the miter saw, and was instantly reminded of why mixing the two in one space is a bad idea lol.  I'm still reminded of it weeks later as the wood dust just gets everywhere.
> 
> Looks like a great space David.


It works pretty well for my small projects. I wouldn't want to build a set of kitchen cabinets in there. Well maybe I would


----------



## David_R8 (Mar 28, 2022)

Picked up this chunk of structural steel for $20
1/4" x 4” x 8” x 72” long


----------



## Susquatch (Mar 28, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> Picked up this chunk of structural steel for $20
> 1/4" x 4” x 8” x 72” long
> View attachment 22546



Looks like the piece they use to hold bricks and blocks above doors and windows but the Mason's labourer only measured once.....


----------



## David_R8 (Mar 28, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Looks like the piece they use to hold bricks and blocks above doors and windows but the Mason's labourer only measured once.....


That's exactly what it is/was. Problem was they needed the reverse; the cutouts and holes needed to be on the short side.
Fellow said they expected to have more mis-made pieces... Woohoo for me!


----------



## phaxtris (Mar 28, 2022)

@David_R8 just wait until near the end of the job, bring a 24 to the job super and you'll walk out with all the extra brick angle, lintels and crap the structural guys left behind...it all ends up in the bin anyhow


----------



## David_R8 (Mar 28, 2022)

phaxtris said:


> @David_R8 just wait until near the end of the job, bring a 24 to the job super and you'll walk out with all the extra brick angle, lintels and crap the structural guys left behind...it all ends up in the bin anyhow


An excellent idea!


----------



## Blouin55 (Apr 2, 2022)

YYCHM said:


> View attachment 13939
> 
> Delivered 3 days ahead of schedule.  They sent the X-Axis kit not the Y-Axis


Just received mine...how is it hard to install?


----------



## David_R8 (Apr 2, 2022)

Blouin55 said:


> Just received mine...how is it hard to install?


No idea to be honest but I don't expect it to be that hard. 
What machine are you installing it on?


----------



## Blouin55 (Apr 2, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> No idea to be honest but I don't expect it to be that hard.
> What machine are you installing it on?


King Canada pdm30


----------



## David_R8 (Apr 2, 2022)

Blouin55 said:


> King Canada pdm30


You will have to make some of your own brackets. I used a few pieces of the kit brackets but had to fabricate a bunch of stuff.
Have you seen my install thread?








						DRO install on a LC-30A mill (RF-30 clone)
					

Thought folks here might want to see how I'm progressing on my DRO install. One of the things I mused over was whether to put the X-axis scale on the fron or back of the table. Front mean I keep all my Y-axis travel and it's easier to mount but I lose my table stops and a powerfeed auto-stop...




					canadianhobbymetalworkers.com


----------



## Blouin55 (Apr 2, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> You will have to make some of your own brackets. I used a few pieces of the kit brackets but had to fabricate a bunch of stuff.
> Have you seen my install thread?
> 
> 
> ...


I think i made a mistake...
I'm talking about installation of the power feeder.


----------



## David_R8 (Apr 2, 2022)

Blouin55 said:


> I think i made a mistake...
> I'm talking about installation of the power feeder.


Sorry... It wasn't too bad once I had a plan. I think the install is chronicled back in this thread.


----------



## YYCHM (Apr 2, 2022)

Blouin55 said:


> Just received mine...how is it hard to install?











						Feeder for pdm30
					

Someone ever installed it on pdm30




					canadianhobbymetalworkers.com
				












						Feeder for pdm30
					

Someone ever installed it on pdm30




					canadianhobbymetalworkers.com


----------



## David_R8 (Apr 30, 2022)

Picked up this 3-drawer cabinet off Marketplace for $20. Fits neatly under my drill press and holds pretty much all the drills and associated paraphernalia.


----------



## DPittman (Apr 30, 2022)

U da deal masta!


----------



## Blouin55 (Apr 30, 2022)

Never have enough drawers to put stock in nice buy!


----------



## David_R8 (Apr 30, 2022)

Two more shop projects knocked out today.
Added a cap screw to my live center so it ejects from the tailstock. The cap screw is a tad long as I lose about 1/4" of tailstock travel. Not that I've ever come close to needing all of the bed length. I'd need a follow or steady rest first...





I bought this 6" jointer about 2 years ago. Didn't come with a blade guard though so I never used it.
Decided today was the day to make a guard. Used CAD (Cardboard Aided Design )to develop the shape of the guard then transfered the shape to a chunk of 1/2" ply. Cut to shape on the bandsaw and then cleans up on the belt sander.Turned down a length of aluminum for the pivot, left a boss on the end so it could pivot on the top of the table and slit the end of it to catch on the tension spring. Tapped it for an M6 SHCS and bored shallow hole in the underside of the guard, added a hole for the cap screw and a bit of red paint for safety 
Then grabbed my belt sander with a 3M purple woven belt and shined up the tables. A bit of paste wax and it's ready to go.
Just need to fabricate a chip collection chute.


----------



## David_R8 (May 2, 2022)

Found this basically new Makita angle grinder for $60. Now I can dedicate one to cutting and one to grinding.


----------



## 140mower (May 2, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> Found this basically new Makita angle grinder for $60. Now I can dedicate one to cutting and one to grinding.
> View attachment 23627


One more, and along with collector status, you can dedicate one to a wire wheel as well. I think I am up to 6 now due to deals I couldn't pass up. Lol.


----------



## David_R8 (May 2, 2022)

140mower said:


> One more, and along with collector status, you can dedicate one to a wire wheel as well. I think I am up to 6 now due to deals I couldn't pass up. Lol.


I also have a 6" Makita 'rat tail' handle grinder but the guard is MIA and NLA. I'd like to press it into service for heavy work but I need to make a guard.


----------



## DPittman (May 2, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> Found this basically new Makita angle grinder for $60. Now I can dedicate one to cutting and one to grinding.
> View attachment 23627


I think you live on island of deals!  Or maybe you're building your own island of deals?  Nice find.  While you certainly can find any old grinder for less than that, I'm going to guess for a new makita like that one you probably saved 80%.  I bet it will be a very nice grinder to use.


----------



## David_R8 (May 2, 2022)

DPittman said:


> I think you live on island of deals!  Or maybe you're building your own island of deals?  Nice find.  While you certainly can find any old grinder for less than that, I'm going to guess for a new makita like that one you probably saved 80%.  I bet it will be a very nice grinder to use.


I keep a hawkeye out for certain items and I have alerts setup for things I really want.
Also picked up a Makita RT0701C palm router tonight for $80. Needs a new cord so feels like less of a deal but I picked it up because I wanted a small router instead of my 1.5 hp Porter Cable.


----------



## David_R8 (May 8, 2022)

Mother’s Day present for my lady. First batch of garden bed fencing.





Formed using this buck.


----------



## David_R8 (May 14, 2022)

Picked up this import .0001 mic. I have a fantastic digital Starrett mic of the same precision but wanted a vernier to go with it.


----------



## David_R8 (May 14, 2022)

Seem like today was pick up material day.
Paid $20 for an 8ft length of 2"x3" tube on 10"tall risers that was used as a skateboard ramp thing.




I also need to build some more garden fences so I moseyed out to a weld fab shop that was selling off stock.
Picked up 35 20 ft long pieces of cold rolled 1/4" rod for $117.
I previously thought I did OK with $60 for 10, 10 foot lengths from MSM.

Also picked up some 3/4" hot rolled round, 1.5" round and some short lengths of 2" .125 wall tube to go with the 2"x3"make a new mill base.
@YotaBota The place is Mainline fabrication on McDonald Park Rd. They are selling off all their steel. $1/lb. A literal shedload of shorts, structural steel, solid round and square stock.


----------



## LenVW (May 14, 2022)

David,
How long have you been stockpiling drops ?
Have you compared the accuracy of the digital to the vernier mic ?
You can confirm them if you have a confirmed test block.
How are the DROs working ?


----------



## Susquatch (May 14, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> Picked up this import .0001 mic. I have a beautiful digital Starrett mic of the same precision but wanted a vernier to go with it.
> 
> View attachment 23863



A beauty by any man's standards. But especially by mine. I love vernier anything. Only my eyes complain. Nothing a desktop lamp magnifier can't fix.


----------



## Degen (May 14, 2022)

I have a digital 1" mic that is 0.00001" it is great for checking standards for the for the cheap 2" 0.0001" Mic.

I bought the 1" one as I plan on making some custom cutters.


----------



## jcdammeyer (May 14, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> After working in my reconfigured shop I came to the conclusion that the configuration that worked on paper, didn’t work in reality.
> So I spent the day moving the mill and lathe, swapping them into the spots previously occupied by my tablesaw and other woodworking machines.
> Now I can easily access my saw which was previously a real bear to use.
> The saw used to live along this wall and I would swing it out to use it. Problem was that I couldn’t get by the thing. Plus I had no way to use the dust collector so it made a hellacious mess.
> So now the mill and lathe are on this wall.


I like the lathe table!


----------



## YotaBota (May 14, 2022)

@David_R8 - sounds like a road trip comin up, thanks for the tip. Did you see any 2" square aluminium bar?


----------



## David_R8 (May 14, 2022)

YotaBota said:


> @David_R8 - sounds like a road trip comin up, thanks for the tip. Did you see any 2" square aluminium bar?


I didn't but I was focused on looking for steel tube...there was definitely aluminum mostly structural shapes are what stood out.


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## David_R8 (May 14, 2022)

jcdammeyer said:


> I like the lathe table!


Thanks John, it came with the lathe. The top is part of a laminated beam that came out of a old Safeway store that was torn down. It weighs a ton!


----------



## David_R8 (May 14, 2022)

LenVW said:


> David,
> How long have you been stockpiling drops ?
> Have you compared the accuracy of the digital to the vernier mic ?
> You can confirm them if you have a confirmed test block.
> How are the DROs working ?


Oh that's not my shop... that's the place I went to today that was selling material for a dollar a pound 

I had my Starrett calibrated when I had it serviced. It measures all my 123 blocks at exactly 1.0000 and the vernier agrees with that. Pretty happy with that for $25.

I haven't had a chance to mess with the DROs yet as I'm getting set to reorg my shop. Again. I bought casters for my lathe bench so I'll be able pull it out and work on it from the back to do the Z axis scale.


----------



## LenVW (May 15, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> Oh that's not my shop... that's the place I went to today that was selling material for a dollar a pound
> 
> I had my Starrett calibrated when I had it serviced. It measures all my 123 blocks at exactly 1.0000 and the vernier agrees with that. Pretty happy with that for $25.
> 
> I haven't had a chance to mess with the DROs yet as I'm getting set to reorg my shop. Again. I bought casters for my lathe bench so I'll be able pull it out and work on it from the back to do the Z axis scale.


Good choice !!
Keeping units easy to move gives you versatility and makes life easier. 
I have been checking out metal depots and fab shops for ‘drops’ around their cutoff saws. When I was Sales Manager at a large fabricator there were always leftovers from lengths of bar stock around the saws. ($1/# would be OK these days)


----------



## David_R8 (May 15, 2022)

A bit of an update on my shift from horizontal bandsaw to portable bandsaw. I bought a King 5x5 saw with the associated horizontal cutoff table.
Saw generally works great, putting it on the table takes maybe a minute depending how many time you drop the cap screws.
The blade that comes with the saw is junk so I bought a set of 10/14 and 12/14 blades.

One thing that I noticed is that the tires on the hubs are not consistent thickness so the saw frame flexes a tiny bit with each blade revolution. I spoke to my local KMS store manager who promptly sent an email to their King rep.
They may replace the saw or simply give me a new set of tires.
If they are unresponsive, the wheels are the same size as Milwaukee saws so I'll just pick up a set of those tires.


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## GlenG (May 15, 2022)

Love my King 5x5 with base.  The only things I‘ve had to do is shim the vice so it cuts straight and periodically adjust the vice clamp


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## David_R8 (May 16, 2022)

Couple of projects started:
1) Started a new base for the mill. The existing base has legs that are 24" wide at the base and 12" wide at the top. I want to put a cabinet with drawers under the mill so with the existing base the cabinet could only be 12" wide. Yesterday I cut up the 2"x3" tube rail from post 273 into 27" long pieces to be legs for a new 24" wide mill base. I have some 1.5" square tube for stretchers. Going for maximize space utilization!

2) Tonight started cutting out pieces to make a flip top cart to hold my oscillating sander on one side and my planer on the other side. Used my table saw and track saw. Great combination for breaking down sheet goods!
(I bought the plans from Fisher's Shop)


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## David_R8 (May 17, 2022)

Got a call back from my KMS store manager. King said the variance in tire thickness is not normal. They are going to replace the saw.


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## David_R8 (May 17, 2022)

Being married to an English professor means I get cool book gifts. 
This arrived today. Basically the first DIY how-to book written circa 1703.


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## 140mower (May 17, 2022)

I love old books that relate back to the same type of interests that I have in our so called modern society, like taking large bulky pieces of metal and transforming them into pieces more suited to smaller projects prior to starting over..... The home handyman has been around for a long time.


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## David_R8 (May 17, 2022)

140mower said:


> I love old books that relate back to the same type of interests that I have in our so called modern society, like taking large bulky pieces of metal and transforming them into pieces more suited to smaller projects prior to starting over..... The home handyman has been around for a long time.


Oh me too. We have some rare books in our collection and I've been fortunate to put my hands on a Shakespeare first folio... Way cool.


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## PaulL (May 18, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> Seem like today was pick up material day.
> Paid $20 for an 8ft length of 2"x3" tube on 10"tall risers that was used as a skateboard ramp thing.
> View attachment 23877
> I also need to build some more garden fences so I moseyed out to a weld fab shop that was selling off stock.
> ...


Well, there's a stop for me on Friday.  I have another small load going to the cabin, and that's right near!


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## David_R8 (May 20, 2022)

Made a flip top cart for my sander and planer.


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## LenVW (May 20, 2022)

Excellent flip-top !!    Great space saver !!
Where are your dust collector inlets ?
You might plan on vacuuming around, before you ‘flip’ your lid !!
Nice build though, very robust and the plywood is a strong dampener.
Looks good David !!


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## David_R8 (May 20, 2022)

LenVW said:


> Excellent flip-top !!    Great space saver !!
> Where are your dust collector inlets ?
> You might plan on vacuuming around, before you ‘flip’ your lid !!
> Nice build though, very robust and the plywood is a strong dampener.
> Looks good David !!


Both have ports although the one on the sander is a bit weak so I may move it to a place on the table. The planer one works great.


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## David_R8 (May 20, 2022)

Finally added a drawer to my welding cart. Only took a year and some.


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## Tom O (May 20, 2022)

Is that the clear gas lens how do you find it works for you?


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## David_R8 (May 20, 2022)

They are just the normal alumina cups. I’ve never dropped my torch but sure would likely happen if I put a spendy Pyrex cup on it!


Tom O said:


> Is that the clear gas lens how do you find it works for you?


----------



## David_R8 (May 23, 2022)

A bit of Victoria Day welding on more garden fencing.
All jigged up.




All done. Now to paint.


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## David_R8 (May 23, 2022)

All painted.


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## LenVW (May 24, 2022)

You know it’s Springtime when the garden centre trips become bi-weekly.
My wife likes to fill the backyard with colour. It is our summer entertaining space.

David, if you were closer, I would be ordering some of those fencing sections.


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## David_R8 (May 24, 2022)

LenVW said:


> You know it’s Springtime when the garden centre trips become bi-weekly.
> My wife likes to fill the backyard with colour. It is our summer entertaining space.
> 
> David, if you were closer, I would be ordering some of those fencing sections.


Thanks Len, I've barely made a dent in the pile of 1/4" rod that I bought. I likely still have 50 10' lengths left. At this point I'll have fencing for the whole yard!


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## LenVW (May 24, 2022)

20 years ago there was a time when wrought iron dinette sets were in vogue.
I made a table and 6 chairs that looked good and had that same weathered iron look.
The table top, seats and back boards were all made of routered oak and I roll formed all the frame section from hydraulic steel tubing that I painted Black Oxide.
We were buying, renovating and reselling houses at that time and I ended up selling the dinette set to a guy when we moved to our current house in 2006.


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## Tomc938 (May 24, 2022)

Wow!  After looking at the pictures on the previous page I must say - I didn't realize you were so rich DavidR8.

Anyone who can afford 3/4" plywood has my respect.


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## David_R8 (May 24, 2022)

Tomc938 said:


> Wow!  After looking at the pictures on the previous page I must say - I didn't realize you were so rich DavidR8.
> 
> Anyone who can afford 3/4" plywood has my respect.


Hah! I'm too cheap for that. I scour Used.com and Facebook marketplace for surplus materials and wood/metal items for sale.

Case in point was the 8 ft 2"x3" rail for $25. This supplied the legs for my new mill base. The rest came from the $1/pound metal surplus sale.

A free 8 ft x 3 ft boardroom table base got turned into a sewing table for my wife with a top of 3/4" pre-finished birch ply for $30. The old table top will eventually become wall cabinets.

A 3-drawer cabinet from a hairdressing shop for $20 became a cabinet for my drill press.

I built the flip top cart from three 3 ft x 4 ft pieces of 3/4" sub-floor sheeting that I got for $40.

The welding cart drawer was built from 1/2" ply that I got for $50 sheet from a lady who bought a container of lumber and sheet goods to build her house. Unfortunately the wood is not CSA approved so she couldn't use it for sheeting or framing. Not a great buy for me as the plys are very uneven and lots of voids.

I very nearly jumped on a 20 ft x 10 ft metal shelter frame but I had no way to easily cut it up as there was no power on site.

I know that lots of folks are not Facebook fans but I have scored some amazing deals from the Marketplace.


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## Susquatch (May 24, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> I know that lots of folks are not Facebook fans but I have scored some amazing deals from the Marketplace.



I absolutely HATE Facebook.
I absolutely LOVE Marketplace.

Had to install Facebook and actually use it before the creeps gave me access to Marketplace. That was also the last day I used Facebook.

If you wanna buy used farm equipment, you better have access to Marketplace cuz that's what 95% of farmers use to buy and sell equipment.


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## Degen (May 24, 2022)

I find the deals are both facebook and kijiji, gotta shop both for the best results.


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## Susquatch (May 24, 2022)

Degen said:


> I find the deals are both facebook and kijiji, gotta shop both for the best results.



Don't forget Craigslist, ebay Canada, and auctions. 

I would also add that some of the best deals I got were gems hidden under a mis-spelled title. For example, I search mil and mill and mille, Lathe and laith and lath. Farmers are notorious for bad spelling.


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## David_R8 (May 24, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Don't forget Craigslist, ebay Canada, and auctions.
> 
> I would also add that some of the best deals I got were gems hidden under a mis-spelled title. For example, I search mil and mill and mille, Lathe and laith and lath. Farmers are notorious for bad spelling.


In my small market Craigslist, Used.com have the same listings with maybe a few more on either. kijiji doesn’t seem to have a big presence here.


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## historicalarms (May 25, 2022)

LenVW said:


> Excellent flip-top !!    Great space saver !!
> Where are your dust collector inlets ?
> You might plan on vacuuming around, before you ‘flip’ your lid !!
> Nice build though, very robust and the plywood is a strong dampener.
> Looks good David !!


  I wish I had photo's of a "space maker" I built in a previous garage shop I owned. It was a single car garage & the wife parked her car in it every night .  
I used every extra inch of floor length for the lathe base and the side room was totally used up by the mill bench...but I had a bench grinder & two different belt sanders that I used often enough that I wanted them to be handy. so I hung a 2x10 x 12 ft bench from the rafters of the garage. There were 2 hanging legs on each end of the bench plank that were attached to the rafters with bolts through angle iron brackets. 
This bench was retractable with an inexpensive PA boat winch.  I space & placed the machines on the bench so that when the bench was lifted out of the way of the car, the machines fit between the rafters. When I wanted to use any of the machines it took 30 seconds to lower the bench to the middle of the floor and it retracted just as quick.


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## David_R8 (May 25, 2022)

historicalarms said:


> I wish I had photo's of a "space maker" I built in a previous garage shop I owned. It was a single car garage & the wife parked her car in it every night .
> I used every extra inch of floor length for the lathe base and the side room was totally used up by the mill bench...but I had a bench grinder & two different belt sanders that I used often enough that I wanted them to be handy. so I hung a 2x10 x 12 ft bench from the rafters of the garage. There were 2 hanging legs on each end of the bench plank that were attached to the rafters with bolts through angle iron brackets.
> This bench was retractable with an inexpensive PA boat winch.  I space & placed the machines on the bench so that when the bench was lifted out of the way of the car, the machines fit between the rafters. When I wanted to use any of the machines it took 30 seconds to lower the bench to the middle of the floor and it retracted just as quick.


Sounds like a brilliant solution to a lack of space problem. I also have a lack of rafter space as my garage has a flat roof. I've considered adding trusses to create an attic but the power comes in from the street over the garage so I'd have to have that lifted which would require a new mast on the house. All in all a very expensive proposition.


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## David_R8 (May 28, 2022)

Welded up the main part of a new stand for my RF mill. 
Need to add some angle iron across the lower part of the legs to support a cabinet.


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## LenVW (May 28, 2022)

Is that a ‘ShopFox’ welding jig holding the legs ?

Is that the same company that makes the ‘M1111’ Mill ?


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## YYCHM (May 28, 2022)

LenVW said:


> Is that a ‘ShopFox’ welding jig holding the legs ?
> 
> Is that the same company that makes the ‘M1111’ Mill ?











						Product - Shop Fox mobile base for mill
					

I want to put my mill on a mobile base so I don't have to mess with the d@mn engine hoist if I want to move it a foot. Thought maybe I'd build my own I started looking at casters and steel. Well that's just painful. $60/caster for ones rated for 300# each plus steel was going to put it north of...




					canadianhobbymetalworkers.com


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## LenVW (May 28, 2022)

Thanks Craig.


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## David_R8 (May 28, 2022)

LenVW said:


> Is that a ‘ShopFox’ welding jig holding the legs ?
> 
> Is that the same company that makes the ‘M1111’ Mill ?


Yep it surely is 
I'm quite impressed by the base actually. It's very stout, rated for 1300#, the plates in the corners for the legs are 1/8" thick, the wheels are cast iron.


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## LenVW (May 29, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> Yep it surely is
> I'm quite impressed by the base actually. It's very stout, rated for 1300#, the plates in the corners for the legs are 1/8" thick, the wheels are cast iron.


Make sure you pile some MASS in the area within your ‘tube base’ to lower the C of G.
I was talking to a friend the other day that tipped over his mill when he was replacing some leveling feet.
Luckily it fell on a pile of cardboard.


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## David_R8 (May 29, 2022)

LenVW said:


> Make sure you pile some MASS in the area within your ‘tube base’ to lower the C of G.
> I was talking to a friend the other day that tipped over his mill when he was replacing some leveling feet.
> Luckily it fell on a pile of cardboard.


I'm planning to build a cabinet to go inside the legs. It will hold all of the mill tooling and some lathe tooling. I also have two 50 lb lead ingots that I'm going to try to attach to the base. That should add at least 150 lbs to the base.


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## David_R8 (May 29, 2022)

Added in supports for the yet-to-be-built cabinet.  Should be able to fit four 5” tall drawers.


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## David_R8 (May 29, 2022)

And painted.


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## 6.5 Fan (May 30, 2022)

Two fifty lb lead ingots!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That would make a lot of bullets for those into casting slugs. Lets see 7000 grains in a lb, 130gr bullet just because, that would make 2692 bullets from 1 of the ingots. Keep a fellow shooting for a while.


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## David_R8 (May 30, 2022)

6.5 Fan said:


> Two fifty lb lead ingots!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That would make a lot of bullets for those into casting slugs. Lets see 7000 grains in a lb, 130gr bullet just because, that would make 2692 bullets from 1 of the ingots. Keep a fellow shooting for a while.


They are not worth much here as lead is easy to come by because of its use in fishing lures.


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## historicalarms (May 30, 2022)

Lead should be easy to come by in your area with all the derelict boats I hear about on the news....some keels will have 1500 lbs of lead for ballast weight. being an avid caster, I would be trying to root them boats out of the mud continually....we can make usable ingots in short order cant we Craig


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## David_R8 (May 30, 2022)

historicalarms said:


> Lead should be easy to come by in your area with all the derelict boats I hear about on the news....some keels will have 1500 lbs of lead for ballast weight. being an avid caster, I would be trying to root them boats out of the mud continually....we can make usable ingots in short order cant we Craig


Derelict boats are a touchy subject here. Unfortunately many are power boats so no keels. And too boot (boat?) not all keels are lead, some are cast steel, and worse some are encapsulated in fibreglass making removal a real bear. 
Then there is the challenge of getting the boat to a place where the keel can be removed... and what to do with the rest of the boat.


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## phaxtris (May 30, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> They are not worth much here as lead is easy to come by because of its use in fishing lures.



? I thought they banned the use of lead fishing weights? Or do they not care off shore


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## David_R8 (May 30, 2022)

phaxtris said:


> ? I thought they banned the use of lead fishing weights? Or do they not care off shore


No idea to be honest, my only experience is seeing ads for fishing weights for melting and recasting.


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## PeterT (May 30, 2022)

I don't fish but I use small amounts for ballast in the RC gliders. From what I can tell, its still available in various form factors. Tungsten is nice because of increased density, you can pack more in confined spaces. but it costs more. Lead shot used to be available everywhere but that seems to be getting harder too. I could mix it in epoxy slurry & it conform it to nose profiles or whatever. Not sure if its facing environmental issues or maybe shooting related issues? I found a source shot/grains for scuba weight packs but my buddy said they are going different way too. I'm not sure if that meant the beads were being coated or different material.



			Amazon.ca


----------



## David_R8 (May 30, 2022)

PeterT said:


> I don't fish but I use small amounts for ballast in the RC gliders. From what I can tell, its still available in various form factors. Tungsten is nice because of increased density, you can pack more in confined spaces. but it costs more. Lead shot used to be available everywhere but that seems to be getting harder too. I could mix it in epoxy slurry & it conform it to nose profiles or whatever. Not sure if its facing environmental issues or maybe shooting related issues? I found a source shot/grains for scuba weight packs but my buddy said they are going different way too. I'm not sure if that meant the beads were being coated or different material.
> 
> 
> 
> Amazon.ca


If tungsten is a good material you need to find someone who TIG welds as there comes a point where the tungsten we use is too short to be used typically about 1.5 inches is too short to be held in the torch collet.


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## PeterT (May 30, 2022)

That's a good idea. I actually saw tungsten powder on Ebay which would be useful to mix with epoxy, but the minimum quantity was outside my lifetime use. I tried some tungsten putty but it wasnt tacky enough for my purpose. The other system we employ are tungsten coated fishing weights with hole already in the middle so no drilling involved. So insert piano wire & collars on either side to adjust CG. Should the unfortunate occur & model gets impaled into the loam, no lead poisoning to Mother Earth LOL.


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## Dan Dubeau (May 31, 2022)

Look into using broken endmills/inserts.


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## David_R8 (May 31, 2022)

Dan Dubeau said:


> Look into using broken endmills/inserts.


Good idea, solid carbide seems heavier than HSS @PeterT


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## historicalarms (May 31, 2022)

Lead is getting hard to find these days, rumored to me that there is only one lead mine still operating in the world.
    Wheel weights used to be a continuous supply of salvage lead for us bullet casters but WW manuf started bulking up their alloys with zink and zink in a lead melt will not mold worth a damn. Likewise, tintype used to be a viable supply for casting but digital printing has killed that option. 

    We on the prairies dont have a continuous supply of sail boats so I have started salvaging all the underground water lines i can get from municipalities when they do a change-over to plastic. It might surprise you folks living in urban areas that you are probably still drinking water from the 10's of thousands of miles of unlined pure lead waterlines installed up till the early 70's....yup... the same lead lines that killed folks in Michigan.


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## David_R8 (May 31, 2022)

historicalarms said:


> Lead is getting hard to find these days, rumored to me that there is only one lead mine still operating in the world.
> Wheel weights used to be a continuous supply of salvage lead for us bullet casters but WW manuf started bulking up their alloys with zink and zink in a lead melt will not mold worth a damn. Likewise, tintype used to be a viable supply for casting but digital printing has killed that option.
> 
> We on the prairies dont have a continuous supply of sail boats so I have started salvaging all the underground water lines i can get from municipalities when they do a change-over to plastic. It might surprise you folks living in urban areas that you are probably still drinking water from the 10's of thousands of miles of unlined pure lead waterlines installed up till the early 70's....yup... the same lead lines that killed folks in Michigan.


I'll ship my lead ingots... you pay shipping 
(only half joking...Canpar shipping on my 100# pan brake was only $150)


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## David_R8 (May 31, 2022)

Added a 1 micron canister filter to my dust collector.


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## LenVW (Jun 1, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> Added a 1 micron canister filter to my dust collector.
> View attachment 24227


The filter will ensure you are not breathing-in those micro particles.
(Lead, Arsenic, Hot Chilli powder . . . LOL)


----------



## David_R8 (Jun 1, 2022)

LenVW said:


> The filter will ensure you are not breathing-in those micro particles.
> (Lead, Arsenic, Hot Chilli powder . . . LOL)


Indeed, I wish I had some way of measuring any performance increase. My collector is only 3/4 hp so every bit helps but mainly I was looking for better filtration over the cotton twill bag


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## David_R8 (Jun 1, 2022)

Well I managed to score a Delta Platinum 14" bandsaw at BC Auction. First win ever there. Absolutely mint, with factory mobile base. 
Pick it up on Friday.
I'll sell my Busy Bee wood metal saw and build up a table for my portable bandsaw.


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## LenVW (Jun 2, 2022)

. . . with the transferable warranty ?


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## David_R8 (Jun 2, 2022)

LenVW said:


> . . . with the transferable warranty ?


Sadly no warranty.


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## YotaBota (Jun 2, 2022)

The pictures look good, did you get to see it before hand?
Now this is something I can help move if you need a hand.


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## David_R8 (Jun 2, 2022)

YotaBota said:


> The pictures look good, did you get to see it before hand?
> Now this is something I can help move if you need a hand.


No unfortunately, onsite previews were stopped because of Covid.Thanks for the offer Mike, I should be able to manage.


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## David_R8 (Jun 2, 2022)

It’s not metal but at least it’s surrounded by metal! 
Made the case for the drawers under my new mill stand. 
Will have four 24” deep by 23” wide drawers with full overlay drawer fronts.


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## David_R8 (Jun 3, 2022)

Absolutely mint condition!


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## DPittman (Jun 3, 2022)

Beautiful


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## David_R8 (Jun 3, 2022)

Made the drawers for the mill base today.
Still need to spray them with finish but I had to make some room!


----------



## Dan Dubeau (Jun 3, 2022)

I have almost the same saw.  Be careful moving it, as the diecast trunions are very fragile, and I broke mine when I very slightly tried lifting it from the table.   The table comes off easily, so you're almost better off removing it.  Mines not a platinum, but knowing delta they're probably very similar in that area, if not identical.  Yours has the roller blade guides, and fully enclosed base, vs my open stand and block guides.  

Replacements trunions are cheap, but still just as fragile.  I machined some replacements out of aluminum that are much stronger than the stock delta die cast ones.  There are high quality replacements available from a few other sources from what I remember as it's a pretty common problem on those delta saws.  They used the same design for many years.  I was just too cheap to buy them and wanted to machine my own lol.


----------



## David_R8 (Jun 3, 2022)

Dan Dubeau said:


> I have almost the same saw.  Be careful moving it, as the diecast trunions are very fragile, and I broke mine when I very slightly tried lifting it from the table.   The table comes off easily, so you're almost better off removing it.  Mines not a platinum, but knowing delta they're probably very similar in that area, if not identical.  Yours has the roller blade guides, and fully enclosed base, vs my open stand and block guides.
> 
> Replacements trunions are cheap, but still just as fragile.  I machined some replacements out of aluminum that are much stronger than the stock delta die cast ones.  There are high quality replacements available from a few other sources from what I remember as it's a pretty common problem on those delta saws.  They used the same design for many years.  I was just too cheap to buy them and wanted to machine my own lol.


Thanks for the heads up! 
On the saw I sold both the trunions and the curved bits under the table were cast aluminum, On the Delta the parts that attatch to the frame are cast iron but the curved bit under the table is cast aluminum I think.


----------



## YotaBota (Jun 3, 2022)

Gotta luv the smell of a "new to me" tool. You may want to add a fence to it, https://www.amazon.ca/Grizzly-H7587...ce&qid=1654309777&sprefix=band,aps,232&sr=8-9
This one is almost identical to mine but I didn't pay $500 plus for it.


----------



## David_R8 (Jun 3, 2022)

YotaBota said:


> Gotta luv the smell of a "new to me" tool. You may want to add a fence to it, https://www.amazon.ca/Grizzly-H7587-Complete-14-Inch-Bandsaws/dp/B000BBIROE/ref=sr_1_9?crid=6UPKOM7ORBP3&keywords=bandsaw+fence&qid=1654309777&sprefix=band,aps,232&sr=8-9
> This one is almost identical to mine but I didn't pay $500 plus for it.


Thanks Mike, I picked up a Kreg Precision fence for it at KMS today along with a couple of Tuff Tooth blades.


----------



## David_R8 (Jun 4, 2022)

Spent a bit of time making a dust collection setup for the bandsaw.
Recycled a leftover fitting from a shop vac, three rare earth magnets, a 3/8" bolt and a scrap of 1/2" ply.
I didn't take a pic but there are three magnets epoxied to the open end of the nozzle so that it sticks to the underside of the saw table.
The pictures will tell the story better than I can.
Works very well.


----------



## David_R8 (Jun 5, 2022)

Put the drawer handles on and made the top for the mill base. 
Very pleased with how this came together. 
Aside from the handles and the Shop Fox base, everything was bought used. The frame was made from a 2x3 skateboard rail ($25) the cabinet carcass was made from a model train display base ($20) the drawers were made from 12mm birch ply ($50 sheet) four pairs of drawer  slides were part of set of 30 pairs of full extension slides for $75.


----------



## David_R8 (Jun 7, 2022)

Just picked up this Veritas router plane for $35. Lee Valley price...$229.


----------



## Susquatch (Jun 8, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> Just picked up this Veritas router plane for $35. Lee Valley price...$229.
> View attachment 24365
> View attachment 24366



Hmmmmm..... Looks like something a fellow could make for himself!


----------



## David_R8 (Jun 8, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Hmmmmm..... Looks like something a fellow could make for himself!


It's a pretty intricate tool with a cast iron body.


----------



## Susquatch (Jun 8, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> It's a pretty intricate tool with a cast iron body.



Ya, but I'm guessing the cast iron is a cost control.

I looked closely at the tool and it's function and decided the most difficult part is making the blade. But you can probably buy those separately. And who knows - I bet there are members on here who would laugh at me saying it is difficult.

All that said, the tool and even the case is just beautiful. All the Veritas stuff is gorgeous. I'd love to have one too. Whatever I made would never look that good!


----------



## Dabbler (Jun 8, 2022)

Several youtubers have made these planes, some quite beautiful.  You are right in that it is an easy design, but it takes quite a bit of work to do.  35$ is the best of both worlds!  well done @David_R8


----------



## Six O Two (Jun 8, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> Just picked up this Veritas router plane for $35. Lee Valley price...$229.



Damn, that is a crazy good deal! I just bought a shoulder plane for $30 bucks off, but I see now I have to up my deal hunting game...


----------



## David_R8 (Jun 8, 2022)

Six O Two said:


> Damn, that is a crazy good deal! I just bought a shoulder plane for $30 bucks off, but I see now I have to up my deal hunting game...


I was pretty surprised that I got it for that to be honest.


----------



## DPittman (Jun 8, 2022)

Six O Two said:


> Damn, that is a crazy good deal! I just bought a shoulder plane for $30 bucks off, but I see now I have to up my deal hunting game...


Yup @David_R8 
Finds all the good deals


----------



## David_R8 (Jun 8, 2022)

DPittman said:


> Yup @David_R8
> Finds all the good deals


My secret is to create alerts in Used.com, Facebook Marketplace. And be ready to jump.
I got the router plane because of a Used.com alert and I was the first person to view the ad.


----------



## Degen (Jun 8, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Ya, but I'm guessing the cast iron is a cost control.
> 
> I looked closely at the tool and it's function and decided the most difficult part is making the blade. But you can probably buy those separately. And who knows - I bet there are members on here who would laugh at me saying it is difficult.
> 
> All that said, the tool and even the case is just beautiful. All the Veritas stuff is gorgeous. I'd love to have one too. Whatever I made would never look that good!


Blade is easy, heat and bend then shape or shape and weld on tang as required.

Body, you got a mill and a welder you are good.

Beat $30, not on your life, good buy.


----------



## Susquatch (Jun 10, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> It's a pretty intricate tool with a cast iron body.



Google is listening.... 

Guess what popped up in my feed........ 





__





						More On My Router Plane - Paul Sellers' Blog
					






					paulsellers.com


----------



## phaxtris (Jun 10, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Google is listening....
> 
> Guess what popped up in my feed........
> 
> ...



Google is always listening.....


----------



## Tom O (Jun 10, 2022)

I tried saying ”SEND MONEY” but nothing happened.


----------



## StevSmar (Jun 12, 2022)

phaxtris said:


> Google is always listening.....


I’ve stopped using Google Chrome because it seemed like every time I typed in a search I got adds on FB or Amazon for it.

I have a Gmail email address which doesn’t help. There’s no such thing as “free”…


----------



## phaxtris (Jun 12, 2022)

StevSmar said:


> I’ve stopped using Google Chrome because it seemed like every time I typed in a search I got adds on FB or Amazon for it.
> 
> I have a Gmail email address which doesn’t help. There’s no such thing as “free”…



im probably the odd one out......but i like the targeted add's, some cool stuff comes up for me


----------



## Tom O (Jun 12, 2022)

I hate the YouTube ads popping up especially those little rectangular ones that cover any text while missing content getting the mouse to click a piddly a** close button.
Rant over.


----------



## David_R8 (Jun 12, 2022)

Managed to move the mill onto the new stand. 
Took some doing as the outriggers on my hoist are too narrow for the width of anything that requires the hoist. 
Decided to try putting the outriggers on the outside of the hoist which made the bottom wide enough to get the roller base in between the legs. 
Was definitely sketchy and next time I’ll make up some longer pins and some filler pieces for the middle bits.


----------



## David_R8 (Jun 12, 2022)

Not at all metal related but I’m super stoked to have picked up issues #1 through #161 of Fine Woodworking. All in like new condition.
For the princely sum of $60


----------



## historicalarms (Jun 13, 2022)

Man be careful with all that knowledge at one time....I did that with 12 yrs of civil war artillery magazines at an auction ...been building all sorts of "replica's" since then from photo's in the mags...hence my forum handle.


----------



## David_R8 (Jun 13, 2022)

historicalarms said:


> Man be careful with all that knowledge at one time....I did that with 12 yrs of civil war artillery magazines at an auction ...been building all sorts of "replica's" since then from photo's in the mags...hence my forum handle.


Funnily enough with so much inspiration my wife is now expecting great things to emerge from the shop. If only my skills were up to the task!


----------



## Susquatch (Jun 13, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> Funnily enough with so much inspiration my wife is now expecting great things to emerge from the shop. If only my skills were up to the task!



Start shopping for cooking and needlepoint magazines now. But don't give them to her unless she complains about the lack of output in the woodworking shop.

After you give them to her, look up divorce lawyers and funeral homes.


----------



## David_R8 (Jun 13, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Start shopping for cooking and needlepoint magazines now. But don't give them to her unless she complains about the lack of output in the woodworking shop.
> 
> After you give them to her, look up divorce lawyers and funeral homes.


Yeah, been there, done that. Definitely not doing that again!


----------



## Dabbler (Jun 15, 2022)

to quickly revisit the router plane thing, here is the video I was thinking of about a home built router plane.  Beautiful job, but took a lot of effort:


----------



## Susquatch (Jun 16, 2022)

Dabbler said:


> to quickly revisit the router plane thing, here is the video I was thinking of about a home built router plane.  Beautiful job, but took a lot of effort:



It took extreme effort to watch any video, but I watched it. My heart went out to the fellow making the planer. He did a great job with mostly common tools and parts. It would be a little easier for someone with a bandsaw, mill, grinder, and sander. 

Very impressive! Thank you @Dabbler.


----------



## trlvn (Jun 16, 2022)

They don't have to be that elaborate:








This style is called a "hags tooth plane".  They are fairly common on the antique tools circuit.  The blade and the clamp might be made by a local blacksmith, back in the day, or perhaps purchased from a catalog.  The wood body would definitely be made by the user to fit their hands and their needs.

Here is another style with a wedge to retain the blade:







The cutter appears to be a re-purposed plow (plough) plan iron.

Craig
(I've been into old tools longer than metalworking.)


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## Tincup (Jun 16, 2022)

Have a peek at the Paul Sellars router, he is big on hand tools only woodworking.





__





						The Paul Sellers Router Plane - Paul Sellers' Blog
					

This is the home page for The Paul Sellers' Router Plane. Here you can find videos, drawings including parts list and technical details.




					paulsellers.com


----------



## Tincup (Jun 16, 2022)

Oops, repeat
Should have looked back one more page


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## David_R8 (Jun 17, 2022)

Started on my mobile dust collector setup. Picked up a brand new, used metal trash can this morning for $30.
Reused the original base from the collector, couple of 2x4's and a chunk of ply to support the cyclone. 2x4 uprights to support the fan unit.
Still a work in progress.


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## Dabbler (Jun 17, 2022)

@David_R8 A couple of guys on youtube have crushed their 'waste can' because their vacuum was pretty high.  You might consider a reinforcing band about 1/2 way up to strengthen it?  All depends on your primary vacuum. A large shop vac will draw considerably higher vacuum than a squirrel cage blower type.


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## David_R8 (Jun 18, 2022)

Dabbler said:


> @David_R8 A couple of guys on youtube have crushed their 'waste can' because their vacuum was pretty high.  You might consider a reinforcing band about 1/2 way up to strengthen it?  All depends on your primary vacuum. A large shop vac will draw considerably higher vacuum than a squirrel cage blower type.


Thanks I have a 1.5 hp fan style blower rated for 1200 cfm and static pressure of 9.5 inches of static pressure.


----------



## StevSmar (Jun 18, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> My secret is to create alerts in Used.com…


That site doesn’t seem to work for me, it comes up with “content coming soon”. 

I’ve now worked out how to put alerts on FB Marketplace.


----------



## David_R8 (Jun 18, 2022)

StevSmar said:


> That site doesn’t seem to work for me, it comes up with “content coming soon”.
> 
> I’ve now worked out how to put alerts on FB Marketplace.


Sorry it’s Used.ca my mistake.


----------



## StevSmar (Jun 18, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> Sorry it’s Used.ca my mistake.


That worked, now I’ve just got to find something to look for…


----------



## David_R8 (Jun 18, 2022)

Got the collection system all done.
This is a bit of a temporary setup till I get the shop rearranged.


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## David_R8 (Jun 19, 2022)

Having bought this metal tray about two, maybe even three years ago I decided it was high time it was put to its intended purpose. 
Now my wife can have her cookie sheet back…though I doubt she’ll want it


----------



## PaulL (Jun 20, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> View attachment 24294Absolutely mint condition!


She's the very model I sold before moving back to BC a few years ago.  A decision I'm now regretting.


----------



## David_R8 (Jun 21, 2022)

Picked up this Leigh dovetail jig tonight.


----------



## Brent H (Jun 22, 2022)

Great Score @David_R8 !

Did you get the manual with it?


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## David_R8 (Jun 22, 2022)

Brent H said:


> Great Score @David_R8 !
> 
> Did you get the manual with it?


I sure did. All 108 pages of it!


----------



## Brent H (Jun 22, 2022)

@David_R8 : it is a great machine - I have mine on the stand it suggests you create and the dust collection system.  If you have any questions I can help you out.  Been using mine for over 15 years..... maybe more?


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## David_R8 (Jun 22, 2022)

Brent H said:


> @David_R8 : it is a great machine - I have mine on the stand it suggests you create and the dust collection system.  If you have any questions I can help you out.  Been using mine for over 15 years..... maybe more?


Thanks mate, it's just mounted on a board at the moment. I'll need to make something a bit more elegant.


----------



## architect (Jun 22, 2022)

@David_R8 What dust collector is that? I'm in the (long) process of setting up some shop space int he basement and was looking at the Princess Auto collectors on sale.


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## David_R8 (Jun 22, 2022)

architect said:


> @David_R8 What dust collector is that? I'm in the (long) process of setting up some shop space int he basement and was looking at the Princess Auto collectors on sale.


It's this one: https://www.kmstools.com/king-industrial-1-1-2-hp-dust-collector.html
I picked it up used locally.
All of the research I did said that minimum size is 1.5 hp. That will give you enough CFM to have longer runs of flex hose which really reduces airflow. I plan to eventually run 5" HVAC ducting with a few drops to machines.


----------



## architect (Jun 22, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> It's this one: https://www.kmstools.com/king-industrial-1-1-2-hp-dust-collector.html
> I picked it up used locally.
> All of the research I did said that minimum size is 1.5 hp. That will give you enough CFM to have longer runs of flex hose which really reduces airflow. I plan to eventually run 5" HVAC ducting with a few drops to machines.


Ah ok the PA one is only 1hp but only $230. I'll wait around for a 1.5hp then. Are there an other criterias from your research? I see you were able to add all these extras and guessing it's pretty universal?


----------



## David_R8 (Jun 22, 2022)

The subject of dust collection is very complicated. I went the easy route as I only need to collect from a table saw, mitre saw, planer, spindle sander, and maybe my CNC router. And none at the same time. I had a 3/4 hp Delta unit on a 4" inlet Oneida Dust Deputy. It simply wasn't powerful enough to run through ducting hence the upgrade.
All of the home shop collectors are pretty much the same; single stage with either a cloth or felt bag or a pleated filter. I highly recommend a 1 micron filter which can be easily added.
The new Oneida cyclone that I bought has a 6" opening at the top and a 5" inlet on the side. The Magnum collector has a 6" inlet and it dropped right into the top of the cyclone. I used 5" HVAC fittings to connect everything together. I cut disc from 3/4" ply to fit into the top of the filter and it's held in place by friction and the band clamp.
To clean thew filter I undo the band clamp and drop the filter.

When I eventually get the thing in its permanent location I might reuse this part of the collector that holds the bag and filter.




I may put the filter on top and adapt a 5 gallon bucket to the bottom so any dust that reaches the filter is easy to remove.
Like this:




The problem is the filter is only 14" in diameter and the ring thing is 19" in diameter so takes up a huge space. It would be easy to whip up a 6" tall x 14" square box like this:


----------



## architect (Jun 23, 2022)

What's the length of ducting you were trying to run? The price of the 1hp at $220 is too good so still wondering if I can make it happen if I have everything close together, or maybe a system where I move the collector on a dolly and quick connect it to different machines as needed. I've seen some pretty snazzy quick connect through my preliminary research. I have less machines than you and only run them one at a time as well.


----------



## David_R8 (Jun 23, 2022)

architect said:


> What's the length of ducting you were trying to run? The price of the 1hp at $220 is too good so still wondering if I can make it happen if I have everything close together, or maybe a system where I move the collector on a dolly and quick connect it to different machines as needed. I've seen some pretty snazzy quick connect through my preliminary research. I have less machines than you and only run them one at a time as well.


I would probably have about 40-50 ft of 5" ducting plus short runs of 4" flex at each machine.
Having the collector mobile is definitely a good option and can work well. The one thing to remember is that flex hose is much more restrictive than rigid duct so keeping the flex runs as short as possible is key with a smaller collector.
Bill Pentz has written a ton on the subject





						Dust Collection Research - Ducting
					

This site helps small shop workers understand the risks from fine dust exposure and how to effectively protect themselves and their families from airborne dust hazards. Fine dust is so extensively studied that researchers call it PM short for particle material. A Google search on PM Health Risks...



					billpentz.com


----------



## Dabbler (Jun 23, 2022)

Great advice from Bill Pentz  THE guru of dust collection/cyclones...


----------



## Degen (Jun 23, 2022)

The problem with multiple ports is loss at each one.  They all effect each other!  Keep the branches to a minimum for best performance, better to have a longer central hose than lots of branches.  Less loses.


----------



## Brent H (Jun 23, 2022)

Just an FYI - I have built a 3 HP model based on Bill Pentz computer program and plans - works terrific.  It was also a very fun welding project.  If I can find the construction pics I can post them if anyone is interested.


----------



## David_R8 (Jun 23, 2022)

Brent H said:


> Just an FYI - I have built a 3 HP model based on Bill Pentz computer program and plans - works terrific.  It was also a very fun welding project.  If I can find the construction pics I can post them if anyone is interested.


Yes please @Brent H


----------



## Brent H (Jun 23, 2022)

Hi @David_R8 - your system hook up that you have looks really nice - you can "take it to the next level" if you want - you have most of the good parts required.

For all those looking into dust collection, the Bill Pentz site is great - lots of super information and his designs are super great as well.  I have a modest cabinet shop area and I build kitchens, custom cabinets etc and then there is the houses and shops etc....in 2017 I decided enough of the crap dust and went at it.  

Here is the calculations and cut sheet from Bill Pentz' spread sheets:









The cut sheet and spread sheet are NOT to scale  and it is very important to lay out the project.  you will also require and exhaust for the collector.  This will take some creativity depending on your intentions.  For @David_R8 you would use your pleated filter.  The pleats VASTLY increase the exhaust surface area and increase efficiency over a bag filter 100 x plus.  It is important to have flow as that makes the dust go.  Restrict the output and you will have issues.  My unit has a 6" suction port and exits to approximately 500 sqft of pleated filter.  A typical busy bee bag will be about 32 Sqft at best.

I cannot find a lot of the build pics as I was going back and forth between the metal shop to roll parts and then back to the ship to weld things up.  I made the majority out of 16 gauge and the flanges out of 1/8" - yes - it was a biotch to get into place.  Some build pics:

The Donor blower - 3HP off a double bagger Craftex






The main body showing the inner swirl plate and center draw:





The main body with the inlet attached.  Note the angle, length and transition from rectangle to 6" round.  All kept as clean as possible for flow and to reduce turbulance:






Then there was the cone, no pics that I can find and mounting it.  This is how it came out and its location.  It is tall - very tall and surprisingly it is out of the way - does not interfere with anything and tucks into the are behind the shop's big door.  You will note the fancy exhaust and the double filter stack.  






The drum lid is steel and has a gasket to seal the drum.  The unit will filter out most of all the dust - even down to MDF flour.  not much hits the filters unless you screw up and forget to change the drum when full.  For planning material I hook up a secondary drum on the suction with a barrel swirl and that catches the planner chips first - not much back to the collector except the fine stuff.

This thing is great!

@David_R8 :  Here is the dust collector port for a unisaw:


----------



## David_R8 (Jun 24, 2022)

Yet another @David_R8 deal sccop...
A next-to-new DeWalt DW735 planer. $400


----------



## YotaBota (Jun 24, 2022)

Good grab.
I've got the same machine and it works very well. Keep the table clean and waxed to keep the wood moving smoothly.


----------



## LenVW (Jun 25, 2022)

architect said:


> What's the length of ducting you were trying to run? The price of the 1hp at $220 is too good so still wondering if I can make it happen if I have everything close together, or maybe a system where I move the collector on a dolly and quick connect it to different machines as needed. I've seen some pretty snazzy quick connect through my preliminary research. I have less machines than you and only run them one at a time as well.


Do not spend a lot of time putting up vacuum lines in your shop. It is costly and you will be constantly cutting and refitting them. After you put up all the ducting for dust collection you need to size up the main CFM to handle your ‘inlet losses’ and ‘ducting feet’. 
Your idea of using QCs and a mobile dust collector is the best choice and will be the most cost effective.


----------



## Brent H (Jun 27, 2022)

Hey @David_R8 :  Check this video out - Schmitt must be listening to us on Google


----------



## Dabbler (Jun 27, 2022)

heya, his build is fantastic.  A very nice improvement on Penz's design.

@Brent H Very nice build!  I wished I had seen it when I visited - the engineer in me is very interested in cyclone designs.


----------



## Brent H (Jun 27, 2022)

@Dabbler : it tucks away pretty nicely in the shop where space is mostly wasted.  Fully assembled, however, it is very tall.  This works well over other designs as the floor space occupied is only that of a 45 or 55 gallon drum.   With Schmitt's design change for the fan motor area he may end up with some grief or having things a bit more complicated than required.  I rolled the upper drum on a metal roller as well as the cone so I did not use any "jigs" to get things built up.  

If you are "into the wood" and have a dust collector already, it is a great modification to strip off and use the duct collector blower assembly as your power and mount it on the top of the Pentz design.  One thing that this also allows is for you to reduce the suction aperture to be more in line with the blade tips (also closer) and greatly increase efficiency.   

Some folks will build the housing and then mount a motor with a store bought impeller or try and make the impeller.  In my searching the impellers were pretty $$ from the USA and I was not going to fab a blower out of shite MDF or other wood with a 3 to 5 Hp motor turning a heavy disk of steel at 1750 plus RPM.  When added up, even trashing a Busy Bee or Kijiji found blower was way cheaper and more efficient use of time.

Here is another  design idea:











The first picture is the part for clearing the dust on the filters.  As I stated way earlier- unless you make a mistake (been there 2 times) and don't change out the collection drum, the filters will stay really clean.  When they need a good blow out (after a screw up) then you have to take things apart.  The clear plexiglass design, however, will give the wood shop guy (that is not lost in thought and paying attention) time to shut'er down before chaos.


----------



## LenVW (Jun 27, 2022)

Brent H said:


> Hey @David_R8 :  Check this video out - Schmitt must be listening to us on Google


Good fabrication demonstration !!
He should have explained a little better how he came up with the points to layout the base and top curves. At a metal forming shop we made use of a basic ‘Plate & Sheet’ CAD program to plot out flat paper layouts of the sheet metal required for cyclones and transitions.
I thought the ‘black board’ wall in his shop was great for sketching up ideas and requirements while working on a job. Just remember to take a photo of it before you erase your notes.


----------



## David_R8 (Jul 9, 2022)

I just missed my saw too much…$200.


----------



## Dabbler (Jul 9, 2022)

it looks brand new!


----------



## David_R8 (Jul 9, 2022)

Dabbler said:


> it looks brand new!


It basically is. There aren't even any metal filings anywhere...


----------



## Degen (Jul 10, 2022)

Extremely good price.


----------



## LenVW (Jul 10, 2022)

A good little power saw can save alot of time, sweat and aggravation.
Money well spent.


----------



## Susquatch (Jul 10, 2022)

Except for the colour, it looks the same as my King - even down to those flimsy orange blade gaurds. I think I paid 200 for mine too but mine had more use on it. I like my saw. 

Nice find!


----------



## PaulL (Jul 10, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> The subject of dust collection is very complicated. I went the easy route as I only need to collect from a table saw, mitre saw, planer, spindle sander, and maybe my CNC router. And none at the same time. I had a 3/4 hp Delta unit on a 4" inlet Oneida Dust Deputy. It simply wasn't powerful enough to run through ducting hence the upgrade.
> All of the home shop collectors are pretty much the same; single stage with either a cloth or felt bag or a pleated filter. I highly recommend a 1 micron filter which can be easily added.


I did mine a little differently - sent the "clean" outlet of the cyclone into a plenum which dumped into the filters, which then dumped into bags right under.  The chips drop out the bottom of the cyclone into a pail I don't seem to have a photo of:









The sheet metal work convinced me to never do sheet work again.  I left this for the new owner at that shop.  Kind of regret it.  But it was well plumbed into under-floor runs and didn't warrant pulling out, especially since the new owner asked for it explicitly as part of the house sale.
Paul


----------



## David_R8 (Jul 17, 2022)

I made a bunch more garden fencing last weekend and it needed paint. The last batch I sprayed with Tremclad gloss black from spray cans. I had five more cans but all of them had been stored so long they wouldn't spray. No way was I going to buy more at $10 can.
Bought a Vaper brand HVLP (high volume, low pressure) spray gun at KMS for $100 and a quart of water based Tremclad for $26.
Thinned the paint; 8 oz paint, 3 oz water and went to town. Sprayed fantastic. Used half a can of paint. My Speedaire 20 gallon compressor worked like a champ. 
Need to rig up a temp spray booth though.


----------



## DPittman (Jul 17, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> I made a bunch more garden fencing last weekend and it needed paint. The last batch I sprayed with Tremclad gloss black from spray cans. I had five more cans but all of them had been stored so long they wouldn't spray. No way was I going to buy more at $10 can.
> Bought a Vaper brand HVLP (high volume, low pressure) spray gun at KMS for $100 and a quart of water based Tremclad for $26.
> Thinned the paint; 8 oz paint, 3 oz water and went to town. Sprayed fantastic. Used half a can of paint. My Speedaire 20 gallon compressor worked like a champ.
> Need to rig up a temp spray booth though.


I've salvaged the paint from aerosol cans by drilling a hole carefully at the top and pouring it out. Start with a small hole (1/8) to let pressure out first.  Probably not recommended shop practice but if you have a bunch of paint that will go to waste otherwise, it is something I would consider.


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## PeterT (Jul 17, 2022)

Back when I was spraying my RC planes I had a Billy Bob routine of a) wait for a calm day, preferably morning with indirect sunlight b) spray the parts just outside my shop passage door & immediately hang them  inside to minimize dust, debris & miscellaneous cling-ons. It was a big PITA. I like painting but no way I could do this inside my shop in the presence of machines & other things that would not tolerate mist settlement. 

I've seen makeshift booth's made from some simple 2x2 wood frame & clear poly (drop cloth) walls stapled on. But they don't really assemble or store or knock down very quickly, depending on your space. I commented to a buddy that I found a cheapo made in China outdoor tent for same price as aforementioned building materials. He ended up doing that & said it worked out quite well. He has some kind of sucking fan that extracts air via a dryer exhaust tube. He left the opposing tent flap open a bit is enough to allow air movement. When spraying is done, he just collapses the tent & stores it in the attic. Seems kind of wasteful to sacrifice a tent, but if you did enough weekend warrior spraying the math might work. I've heard people say a regular fan is a bad idea because its not an explosion proof motor, so there's that.


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## historicalarms (Jul 17, 2022)

I needed a "booth for spaying my powder coat inside the shop in the winter  and use the biggest Tupperware tub I could find. works excellent cleans easily and the over-spray powder can be just dumped out and re-used....again, that "poverty' thing...


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## David_R8 (Jul 17, 2022)

Thanks gents. I’ve seen some clever fold up booths made from sheets of foam core and hinged with cloth hinges. Also thought about a big tub.
My challenge is the size of the pieces I spray ranged from 2’ x 2’ to furniture so I kinda need a one size fits most setup.


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## PaulL (Jul 17, 2022)

When I was ammonia-fuming oak furniture I made my boxes out of core-plast and duct tape.  Robust, packable, re-usable.


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## David_R8 (Jul 17, 2022)

DPittman said:


> I've salvaged the paint from aerosol cans by drilling a hole carefully at the top and pouring it out. Start with a small hole (1/8) to let pressure out first.  Probably not recommended shop practice but if you have a bunch of paint that will go to waste otherwise, it is something I would consider.


I thought about doing this but was a bit terrified that it would be a bit, umm messy!


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## Susquatch (Jul 17, 2022)

A tent! What a great idea! 

I'd probably add a small vacuum to keep it negative or positive pressure depending on location indoors or outdoors.


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## Susquatch (Jul 17, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> I thought about doing this but was a bit terrified that it would be a bit, umm messy!



Chicken. And not @Chicken lights either. 

I think as long as the hole is near the top, it wouldn't be as messy as you fear. You should man up and try it for the team a few times.


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## jcdammeyer (Jul 17, 2022)

Last year I finally bit the bullet and bought one of these collapsible paint booths c/w fan and LED lighting.  The hose doesn't fit in the box when it's all folded up but does compress to a short length or stretches out and the vent can be set up to blow outside.    Keeps some of the fumes out of the shop (and house).

I use it for conformal coating PC boards and spray painting casting patterns.  (Hence the green overspray for milling machine patterns.).   IIRC, I bought it from KMS I think...  I bought generic filter material from Lowes and cut to fit new filters.


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## David_R8 (Jul 17, 2022)

jcdammeyer said:


> Last year I finally bit the bullet and bought one of these collapsible paint booths c/w fan and LED lighting.  The hose doesn't fit in the box when it's all folded up but does compress to a short length or stretches out and the vent can be set up to blow outside.    Keeps some of the fumes out of the shop (and house).
> 
> I use it for conformal coating PC boards and spray painting casting patterns.  (Hence the green overspray for milling machine patterns.).   IIRC, I bought it from KMS I think...  I bought generic filter material from Lowes and cut to fit new filters.


Is this the model you have?








						Magnum Spray Booth for Airbrushing
					

Extracts overspray & filters airIncludes turntable & exhaust hose kit




					www.kmstools.com


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## jcdammeyer (Jul 17, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> Is this the model you have?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes.  Pointing the exhaust in my face never quite made sense but it doesn't really matter.  You can flex the hose anywhere.    You are welcome to come over and take a look at it.


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## Six O Two (Jul 20, 2022)

The large Lee Valley tent spray booth at $80  doesn't seem too expensive to me.





						Portable Spray Shelters - Lee Valley Tools
					






					www.leevalley.com


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## Susquatch (Jul 20, 2022)

Six O Two said:


> The large Lee Valley tent spray booth at $80  doesn't seem too expensive to me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Looks like you could even rotate the tent instead of crawling in there.


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## David_R8 (Jul 20, 2022)

The big one is pretty huge. basically the sixe of a sheet of plywood.
This one would be about right I think.




__





						Wagner Medium Spray Shelter | Paint & Stain Containment Tent
					

This medium spray shelter is a great booth for spraying projects like upcycling furniture & more, while preventing overspray drift from getting on other surfaces.




					www.wagnerspraytech.com


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## Six O Two (Jul 20, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> The big one is pretty huge. basically the sixe of a sheet of plywood.
> This one would be about right I think.
> 
> 
> ...



On the Lee Valley link I posted above, if you switch the size dropdown to small, Lee Valley has the same smaller one for $10 less.

ETA, actually, now that I look at the listed sizes, the Lee Valley small is er, smaller...


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## BMW Rider (Jul 20, 2022)

That Wagner medium one looks easier to set up too.


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## David_R8 (Jul 20, 2022)

Wonder if Lee Valley would bring in the medium one...
Amazon has it for $109


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## Hruul (Jul 20, 2022)

I have the small spray tent from Princess Auto.  They are about $25 on sale.  Pops up when you take the elastic off.  Too small for what your doing I would guess (about 2' inside).  The other idea I have seen is to attach poly tall enough to go from the floor to the garage door track and attach a board at the top and bottom.  Attach the top to the garage door track (on the outside) and then roll up the bottom board in the poly and tie it up when not in use.  When you need it untie and roll down.  I have not done this, but I do a similar thing with welding blankets to make a welding booth in my garage.  I have a piece of 1/2" conduit attached between the single garage door tracks to hang a blanket from that part.  It forms a three sided welding booth with the fourth wall the door if I need to open it a bit.


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## David_R8 (Jul 23, 2022)

Great news, Lee Valley is bringing in a medium size tent for me. $60. Seems like the perfect size for my space.
Long lead time though as it won’t be here till October.


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## Susquatch (Jul 23, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> Great news, Lee Valley is bring in a medium size tent for me. $60. Seems like the perfect size for my space.
> Long lead time though as it won’t be here till October.



Do they sell tents to fit a tractor? 

Edit - my wife wants to know if they sell cages for big hairy guys with big feet? I am hoping she means @LenVW but I'm not sure he meets the hairy criteria .....


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## David_R8 (Jul 29, 2022)

Made a new saw blade washer for my Unisaw.


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## jcdammeyer (Jul 29, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> Made a new saw blade washer for my Unisaw.


Trying to figure what the purpose of that washer is.


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## LenVW (Jul 30, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Do they sell tents to fit a tractor?
> 
> Edit - my wife wants to know if they sell cages for big hairy guys with big feet? I am hoping she means @LenVW but I'm not sure he meets the hairy criteria .....


@Susquatch   there are all kinds of fabric buildings for sale that are big enough to be accommodate a semi-truck or farm tractors. I thought you were looking for something more formidable like cement block or pole barn.
BTW
Tell your wife that both my grandfathers died with a full head of hair !!
 LOL


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## Susquatch (Jul 30, 2022)

I was just kidding. 

I have no real plans for more buildings - fabric or otherwise. I *might* build a 40x20 lean-to on the north side of my pole barn as a sort of "car port" for my planter, grain wagon(s) and a few other impliments, but even that is a long shot. The tractors go inside for the winter and I just crawl around them.


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## David_R8 (Jul 30, 2022)

jcdammeyer said:


> Trying to figure what the purpose of that washer is.


It holds the blade against the arbour flange. The dished washer that came with the saw lost all of its dish so wasn't holding the blade correctly.


----------



## jcdammeyer (Jul 30, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> It holds the blade against the arbour flange. The dished washer that came with the saw lost all of its dish so wasn't holding the blade correctly.


Ah. UniSaw=TableSaw.  I should know that since I have one.  For some reason I was thinking metal cutting band saw and from the pictures couldn't figure out where that washer went.  Duhhhh!


----------



## Degen (Jul 30, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> It holds the blade against the arbour flange. The dished washer that came with the saw lost all of its dish so wasn't holding the blade correctly.


Since you made a HD version of it drill&tap 6 or 8 set screws around the outside, this makes a true blade truing disk.  By tweaking with the set screws you can make a blade run perfectly true.


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## LenVW (Jul 30, 2022)

Be careful with those set screws. 
They can create concentrated stress points in the blade and lead to cracks.
I would hate to hear about you guys on the news.


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## Degen (Jul 30, 2022)

LenVW said:


> Be careful with those set screws.
> They can create concentrated stress points in the blade and lead to cracks.
> I would hate to hear about you guys on the news.


Yes they should definitely be blunted.  The idea is to use absolute minimum pressure to tweak that final perfection.

A version of this used to be sold in Lee Valley.


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## David_R8 (Jul 30, 2022)

Degen said:


> Yes they should definitely be blunted.  The idea is to use absolute minimum pressure to tweak that final perfection.
> 
> A version of this used to be sold in Lee Valley.


Ironically I have one of those. Well I have the side with the set screws. Should there be a mate to it? It's maybe 4-4.5" in diameter.


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## Degen (Jul 30, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> Ironically I have one of those. Well I have the side with the set screws. Should there be a mate to it? It's maybe 4-4.5" in diameter.


If I recall the instructions correctly, no just a standard washer as a little pressure and offset is required to allow the blade to tweak.  Again just a little pressure after the blade is tightened.


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## trlvn (Jul 31, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> Made a new saw blade washer for my Unisaw.
> View attachment 25262
> View attachment 25263
> View attachment 25264
> View attachment 25265


Looking good.  What material did you use?  Just mild steel?

Since the part has 'features' on both sides, what was your order of operations?  How did you hold it?

Are you going to blacken the washer?  Looks like a great candidate for Jax Blackening solution.  (My new shop favourite!)

Craig


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## David_R8 (Jul 31, 2022)

trlvn said:


> Looking good.  What material did you use?  Just mild steel?
> 
> Since the part has 'features' on both sides, what was your order of operations?  How did you hold it?
> 
> ...


Hey thanks Craig!
It's made of 44W . I was looking for 4140HT but no one had it in 2.5" diameter.

Order of operations using 3-jaw and 4-jaw
Cut a .50" length
Turn to 2.5" diameter
Make the recess and bore the hole
Take it out flip it, turn the section that was in the chuck to 2.5" diameter
Face it down to .45"
Make the chamfer
I have to make another for a fellow and I think I'll make a mandrel as it was a pain to swap chucks and indicate in after flipping it.

I haven't blackened it but I probably should.
@trlvn Where did you get you Jax? The only CDN source wants $30 to ship a pint of it.


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## David_R8 (Jul 31, 2022)

Well not quite shop shenanigans but near to the shop so that counts.
We had grand plans of washing and painting our front steps today.
Problem was that one of the steps was loose. So I peeled it up to investigate.
Next thing I knew this happened.

The stringer on the right was completely rotten as was the wall is was attached to.
The stub wall on the right is completely rotten.
The stairs came up from the right to a landing then carried on up to another landing at the door.

I'm tearing the whole thing off including the false wall on the left, the wall on the right and will build a set of freestanding stairs to a landing at the top.
And I'll build a small storage shed under the top landing 
This was about 3 pm. Subsequent to this shot I peeled off the rim joist on the left and the landing at the top.


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## jcdammeyer (Jul 31, 2022)

Watch that first step.  It will be a doozy.


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## PaulL (Jul 31, 2022)

Ok dear.  Flashback to our first house, in Vancouver, circa 1999.  Both the front and back stairs did just that.  Stucco was the only thing holding it all together.  We rebuilt the front right then so we could get furniture in; the rear got cordoned off and waited are for the kitchen work.  
I feel your pain!


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## Degen (Jul 31, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> Well not quite shop shenanigans but near to the shop so that counts.
> We had grand plans of washing and painting our front steps today.
> Problem was that one of the steps was loose. So I peeled it up to investigate.
> Next thing I knew this happened.
> ...


There are days when you look for trouble you will find it in spades.


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## jcdammeyer (Jul 31, 2022)

I suspect we've all been there when it comes to repairing rotten porch steps.  Nice to have help for the repair too.


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## David_R8 (Aug 1, 2022)

Well the show continued today. Six solid hours of labour to get almost to the point of having it all demoed. 

The first photo is stub wall that held the stairs down to ground level. It was only held together but the stucco. 
Hilariously there was a sill gasket under all that mess. The problem was that the top had zero waterproofing; no building paper nothing so water just filled up the wall cavity. There was a 2x6 that was actually dripping water when I pulled it out.





I peeled the stucco off the inside of the wall with a pitchfork. The diagonal is where the old stair stringer was.
Bottom of the wall was completely rotten to about 4 ft from the house.












I used a diamond wheel on my angle grinder to score a line in the stucco where the wall joined the house. Worked sorta alright. I wasn't able to get deep enough into the corner and some of the house stucco cracked. No big deal as we will get the whole mess stuccoed.








This is the view looking down from the front door. With any luck I can get a bin here tomorrow.


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## Degen (Aug 1, 2022)

Sorry to hear, but this was a blessing in disguise in find a bad problem and given a chance to rectify it before it became a terrible nightmare.

In this moment think glass half full and hopefully no more surprises.


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## David_R8 (Aug 1, 2022)

Degen said:


> Sorry to hear, but this was a blessing in disguise in find a bad problem and given a chance to rectify it before it became a terrible nightmare.
> 
> In this moment think glass half full and hopefully no more surprises.


Most definitely!
I think about the number of deliveries I've received and shudder at though of some unsuspecting delivery person falling through the steps.


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## Degen (Aug 1, 2022)

Now hopefully thinking, how can you turn this into the all desired shop expansion....all of course of corrective reconstruction and improvement.


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## David_R8 (Aug 1, 2022)

Degen said:


> Now hopefully thinking, how can you turn this into the all desired shop expansion....all of course of corrective reconstruction and improvement.


I'm going to build a small shed underneath close to the house. I'll be able to store all wood that is currently occupying a space about two ft by 20ft where my motorcycle is stored. 
And my wife asked me tonight if there was any reason I couldn't build a small shed on top of the garage. Hmmm


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## Susquatch (Aug 1, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> I'm going to build a small shed underneath close to the house. I'll be able to store all wood that is currently occupying a space about two ft by 20ft where my motorcycle is stored.
> And my wife asked me tonight if there was any reason I couldn't build a small shed on top of the garage. Hmmm



Your post doesn't need a reply, but I felt my laughing out loud emoticon needed a bit more lest it be interpreted as laughing at a stupid idea - which it is not. 

Out of the mouth's of babes they say. Cool idea! So what would you put up there?


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## David_R8 (Aug 1, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Your post doesn't need a reply, but I felt my laughing out loud emoticon needed a bit more lest it be interpreted as laughing at a stupid idea - which it is not.
> 
> Out of the mouth's of babes they say. Cool idea! So what would you put up there?


Here's a shot of the back of the shop showing the proximity to the house.
Imagine a foot bridge going up a couple of steps from the house stairs then across to the roof.
It would be a small shed, maybe 6'x6' basically above the door away and from the power lines. The roof has 2x8 rafters on a 10ft span so plenty strong.
I'd be able to store all of my seldom used tools like my tile saw, Black and Decker saw horse things. If I got brave I could put my compressor or dust collector up there...


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## YYCHM (Aug 1, 2022)

How do you get up there now?


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## David_R8 (Aug 1, 2022)

YYCHM said:


> How do you get up there now?


Ladder, don't go up except to clean off the pine cones and leaves that clog up the roof drain.


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## jcdammeyer (Aug 1, 2022)

Be careful.  Often you are allowed to 'repair' stuff without building permits but even just the stairs up and across to the roof is considered 'new' construction and will likely require a building permit and inspection.

I wanted to replace carport beams that were then already too long for their width according to code.  I was told that I could 'repair' the rotted ones with replacements of the same size but not make them bigger.  Silly but them's the rules.  So I put the same size in but this time made sure it couldn't rot.


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## David_R8 (Aug 1, 2022)

jcdammeyer said:


> Be careful.  Often you are allowed to 'repair' stuff without building permits but even just the stairs up and across to the roof is considered 'new' construction and will likely require a building permit and inspection.
> 
> I wanted to replace carport beams that were then already too long for their width according to code.  I was told that I could 'repair' the rotted ones with replacements of the same size but not make them bigger.  Silly but them's the rules.  So I put the same size in but this time made sure it couldn't rot.


Oh yes, I'm 100% sure Saanich would have a fit if I put shed on top of my garage.
Part of my challenge is that I grew up in the country and we just built whatever we felt like building. Dad built a 25x40 shop and didn't get a permit. I miss that. 
Oh well, we make do with the situation we're in. Once get the bike out and the wood out I'll gain about 90 sq ft.


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## Dabbler (Aug 1, 2022)

@jcdammeyer in Calgary the rules for building permits are extraordinarily lax...  I hope you don't mind the side note--

Several years ago I was repairing a friend's industrial property.  The flat roof had been leaking for years and years, with the attendant roof rot.   It was spongy to walk on.  I installed a double scissor gambrel roof on top of the building - without any permit - this is considered a 'roof repair' in Calgary.  we even had a City inspector come over during construction, 'just in case'... it was fine.


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## David_R8 (Aug 1, 2022)

Dabbler said:


> @jcdammeyer in Calgary the rules for building permits are extraordinarily lax...  I hope you don't mind the side note--
> 
> Several years ago I was repairing a friend's industrial property.  The flat roof had been leaking for years and years, with the attendant roof rot.   It was spongy to walk on.  I installed a double scissor gambrel roof on top of the building - without any permit - this is considered a 'roof repair' in Calgary.  we even had a City inspector come over during construction, 'just in case'... it was fine.


I've wondered if I could get away with adding rafters and a ridge beam and calling it roof repair. I doubt it because it's not built the same as the original roof.


----------



## Degen (Aug 1, 2022)

I think the phrase is, it's been there as long as I can remember.....


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## Dabbler (Aug 1, 2022)

We were using engineered trusses, so we were quite safe.  My guess is any alterations in structure might be suspect.  However if you are reinforcing a structure, it might be allowed.  

I'm 'reinforcing' my trusses in my garage for a bridge crane.  I'm sure I'm fine.


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## jcdammeyer (Aug 1, 2022)

This was my rotten experience.    It's the 3 season 'sun room' built on the outside deck.  Apparently without permits.  But because we bought the house with it there and the roof had been extended over it it's now an integral part of the house.





Why did it rot?  Well.  The front bearing wall with the large window and holding up the roof etc was sitting on 5/8" plywood halfway between the two joists.  The 4x4 support outboard of the wall was pushing that joist higher than the one on the inside of the wall.  So water, which runs downhill apparently, collected in the low spot.  Made a low spot because 5/8" plywood isn't that strong.




This was the solution which now sits directly under the bearing wall.  






The 4x4 beam has additional supports now too.  That's my South Bend under the tarp.  Foundry Furnace in the background.


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## 6.5 Fan (Aug 2, 2022)

Instead of stairs to the garage roof.........a nice ramp wide enough for say a motorcycle to go up to it's nice dry home.  You could pretend to be Evil K. or the Pastrami dude.


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 2, 2022)

Demolition is complete. One of my angle grinders, the Makita went up in smoke. Pity as I liked it.
The sill plate was completely rotter up to about 20" from the house. 

Bin arrives tomorrow as will a stucco estimate.
Once the stucco is done I can start putting this back together.


----------



## YYCHM (Aug 2, 2022)

What were you using the angle grinder for?


----------



## Hruul (Aug 2, 2022)

cutting the stucco likely.  I did the same on our previous house.  The front wall was rotten under all the wooden windows because the previous owner did not look after them.


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## David_R8 (Aug 2, 2022)

Yup, Lee is bang on. It was going along just fine, I stopped to peel a chunk of stucco off and when I tried to start it again it kinda juddered and the magic smoke poured out of it. I'll crack it open and see if it's really dead.


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## LenVW (Aug 3, 2022)

Dabbler said:


> We were using engineered trusses, so we were quite safe.  My guess is any alterations in structure might be suspect.  However if you are reinforcing a structure, it might be allowed.
> 
> I'm 'reinforcing' my trusses in my garage for a bridge crane.  I'm sure I'm fine.


Those Engineered Trusses are excellent, their laminated construction increases their cross-sectional modulus value for better load bearing applications. There is also better long-term protection from deterioration due to humidity and insects because of the inter layer bonding used.


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## Susquatch (Aug 3, 2022)

LenVW said:


> Those Engineered Trusses are excellent, their laminated construction increases their cross-sectional modulus value for better load bearing applications. There is also better long-term protection from deterioration due to humidity and insects because of the inter layer bonding used.



That's interesting.

One of us has misinterpreted what @Dabbler meant by "engineered truss". I had thought he meant trusses that were prebuilt and pre-approved by an engineer for a given span, application, and construction standard. They are assembled out of regular lumber at a truss yard and delivered in a stack to the job site.

But you thought he meant those man-made Laminated Trus-Joists developed by Weyerhaeuser. I knew the chief engineer at Weyerhaeuser in BC. Great guy.

Assuming @Dabbler meant the man made joists (which come in a million sizes and design types), you are right about their many advantages. But I think you missed their two biggest advantages - which are consistency and big trees are not required. The strength properties of Natural lumber vary all over the map. A simple knot or a growth varience can dramatically reduce their strength. So they are rated at minimum and graded. Trus-Joists are very uniform and the properties are more consistent which makes them much more reliable. They can also be made from small trees which make the forestry management more sustainable. 

My home is built with Weyerhaeuser "Silent Floor" Trusses which look and act a bit like wooden I-Beams. I love them. We also have huge 16x6 Trus-Joists for high load bearing locations that would usually use a steel beam.

Can't wait to see which one @Dabbler meant. I'll be happier if it's your version.


----------



## DPittman (Aug 3, 2022)

It's amazing someone would build a wooden structure like that especially in a wet climate.  Do you know when that was built?

Yes today's natural lumber is a far cry from what used to be available.  My father built my house in the 50's and the floor joists are beautiful knot free, perfectly straight and square clear that I don't think could be bought today.  The subfloor was fir plywood and looking at the bottom side of it,  which would have been the worst side, it is much nicer than the spruce/pine G1S plywood of today. 

I bought "treated" lumber just yesterday for my own outdoor staircase replacement project and the 2x4'd are not even the same thickness  of the 2x8's. Good lord man.


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 3, 2022)

DPittman said:


> It's amazing someone would build a wooden structure like that especially in a wet climate.  Do you know when that was built?
> 
> Yes today's natural lumber is a far cry from what used to be available.  My father built my house in the 50's and the floor joists are beautiful knot free, perfectly straight and square clear that I don't think could be bought today.  The subfloor was fir plywood and looking at the bottom side of it,  which would have been the worst side, it is much nicer than the spruce/pine G1S plywood of today.
> 
> I bought "treated" lumber just yesterday for my own outdoor staircase replacement project and the 2x4'd are not even the same thickness  of the 2x8's. Good lord man.


We've owned the house for sixteen years and it was there when we bought.
In principle it would be fine if there had been proper waterproofing. But non-pressure treated lumber and builder's paper is not going to cut it in this environment. 
I'll be rebuilding with cedar deck boards and stair treads on pressure treated framing.


----------



## Doggggboy (Aug 3, 2022)

DPittman said:


> It's amazing someone would build a wooden structure like that especially in a wet climate.  Do you know when that was built?
> 
> Yes today's natural lumber is a far cry from what used to be available.  My father built my house in the 50's and the floor joists are beautiful knot free, perfectly straight and square clear that I don't think could be bought today.  The subfloor was fir plywood and looking at the bottom side of it,  which would have been the worst side, it is much nicer than the spruce/pine G1S plywood of today.
> 
> I bought "treated" lumber just yesterday for my own outdoor staircase replacement project and the 2x4'd are not even the same thickness  of the 2x8's. Good lord man.


Same same.
Bought PT 2x6 and 2x8 for the new pool deck and besides the usual hockey stick curves they were as much as 3/8ths difference end to end on some of them on width.


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 3, 2022)

The bin arrived at 0800 hrs. Exactly on schedule. Asbestos testing report arrived at 0805 hrs. Perfect timing as they wouldn't drop the bin unless they had the report.

Today's task is to put this:




In here:


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 3, 2022)

And done.


----------



## Dabbler (Aug 3, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> One of us has misinterpreted what @Dabbler meant by "engineered truss". I had thought he meant trusses that were prebuilt and pre-approved by an engineer for a given span, application, and construction standard. They are assembled out of regular lumber at a truss yard and delivered in a stack to the job site.


 Exactly.  You cannot make a double scissor truss using the laminated method, but you can make a gambrel beam using OSB webs.  It is  a lot more expensive than my friend had in his budget. 

The enitrroof for a 26X40 gambrel roof, structurem, sheathing and roofing was just over 18K$


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 4, 2022)

Today's theme was fun with concrete.
Made a small form to finish off a chunk of wall that had been broken off. No pics sorry.
Then I dug into dealing with the slab that was the landing for the stairs.
Measured 53" long by 24" wide by 10" thick. Rough calculation put its weight north of 550 lbs.
I lifted it out of the ground with my engine hoist. Man that thing has been useful!
Oh and my Bike Barn arrived. Happy days!








We thought we might sink it into the ground in front of the person door to the shop (just visible in the upper left corner in the above pic) but neither of us had the desire or energy to dig a hole big enough for it. Nor could we figure out a way to move it the four feet to its potential new resting place.
So off to the rental place for a jack hammer. I discovered the slab contained lengths of 3/4" rebar. At random intervals.




The Hilti prevailed and I ended up with this.



The big upside to this is that we have gained a huge amount of room between the house and the shop which was previously a bit cramped.


----------



## Degen (Aug 4, 2022)

I had a friend that could have moon launched it for you and made it disappear at about 3-400ft.  Never seen him do it personally but have heard from other friends it impressive and scares the c@&p out of the neighbors.

@Susquatch he's done a few silo's that way, into the sky like roman candles.


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 6, 2022)

We just received the quote to stucco the area under the old stairs. 
Good thing I was sitting down. $4980 plus GST and PST. 
Seems outrageously expensive but I have no prior experience with this type of work. Knowing that it's difficult to compare costs does anyone have any relevant experience.
@PaulL @francist @jcdammeyer have you had any stucco work done?


----------



## Dabbler (Aug 6, 2022)

By Calgary standards, your quote seems high, depending on what was included.


----------



## YYCHM (Aug 6, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> We just received the quote to stucco the area under the old stairs.



If it's under the stairs does it really need to be re-stuccoed?  Is it visible?


----------



## jcdammeyer (Aug 6, 2022)

I had work done on our little house back in 1992 but I don't remember how much it was.  And since that was 30 years ago and in Edmonton I have no idea if your quote is high or low.  Sorry.  
All I can suggest is get a few more quotes.  Construction trades are booming at the moment with a shortage of workers which may have a bearing on the price.


----------



## Dabbler (Aug 6, 2022)

YYCHM said:


> If it's under the stairs does it really need to be re-stuccoed? Is it visible?


He lives in Rain Central.  The stucco is to shed the water - if done correctly.


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 6, 2022)

YYCHM said:


> If it's under the stairs does it really need to be re-stuccoed?  Is it visible?


Yes it has to be stuccoed so that it's weatertight.


----------



## jcdammeyer (Aug 6, 2022)

Assuming you've done all the prep work as discussed.  Like bringing out that lower area even with the existing plywood.  Assume 2 guys billed at $100/hr (car dealerships now want over $150 for their mechanics) and an 8 hour day that's only $1600.  Several days for the initial layer and a return to do the second.  Plus cleanup time.  Call it 16 hours for two is $3200.  Materials $1000?  Expecting 18% profit?

When I had the perimeter drains done, it was roughly $7000 per side.  Which included heavy equipment and fill etc.  Three to four guys.  I'd done the front so the price was about $21,000.  

But I no longer have a creek running through the shop.






Maybe ask him how many guys and how long it will take?  It could be since you were asking him to do it quickly that there's a rush charge?


----------



## PaulL (Aug 6, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> We just received the quote to stucco the area under the old stairs.
> Good thing I was sitting down. $4980 plus GST and PST.
> Seems outrageously expensive but I have no prior experience with this type of work. Knowing that it's difficult to compare costs does anyone have any relevant experience.
> @PaulL @francist @jcdammeyer have you had any stucco work done?


I've had stucco done recently, once on house envelope, then over the new garage.  Let me dig through my invoices when I get into town tomorrow.  
Your quote seems a bit high, but I also don't expect them to mobilize 3 times for less than $3k.  So you're not way out of (Victoria) pricing.
Who did you call? We had DeCicco Bros. Do the work.  If they have other work nearby that's in your favour for a small job.  Also not being in a hurry helps - price goes up as you add end dates.


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 6, 2022)

PaulL said:


> I've had stucco done recently, once on house envelope, then over the new garage.  Let me dig through my invoices when I get into town tomorrow.
> Your quote seems a bit high, but I also don't expect them to mobilize 3 times for less than $3k.  So you're not way out of (Victoria) pricing.
> Who did you call? We had DeCicco Bros. Do the work.  If they have other work nearby that's in your favour for a small job.  Also not being in a hurry helps - price goes up as you add end dates.


DeCicco is who quoted the current price. I was sort of expecting $3K but $5K plus tax seems a bit steep.
I have another fellow coming to estimate on Monday.


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 6, 2022)

jcdammeyer said:


> Assuming you've done all the prep work as discussed.  Like bringing out that lower area even with the existing plywood.  Assume 2 guys billed at $100/hr (car dealerships now want over $150 for their mechanics) and an 8 hour day that's only $1600.  Several days for the initial layer and a return to do the second.  Plus cleanup time.  Call it 16 hours for two is $3200.  Materials $1000?  Expecting 18% profit?
> 
> When I had the perimeter drains done, it was roughly $7000 per side.  Which included heavy equipment and fill etc.  Three to four guys.  I'd done the front so the price was about $21,000.
> 
> ...


Thanks John, the estimator mentioned three days so at 1600/day that’s $4800 right there. I can’t see three days though. All the prep we talked about is done. So 1 day to paper, wire and parge and another to apply the finish coat seems reasonable to me. I’ll be very curious to see what estimate I get on Monday.


----------



## Degen (Aug 6, 2022)

Right now you will get prices all over the place.  I've had 2 gutter replacement quotes, one $1,600.00 the other $3,600.00.

Shop around, you'll be surprised at the differences.


----------



## PaulL (Aug 6, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> Thanks John, the estimator mentioned three days so at 1600/day that’s $4800 right there. I can’t see three days though. All the prep we talked about is done. So 1 day to paper, wire and parge and another to apply the finish coat seems reasonable to me. I’ll be very curious to see what estimate I get on Monday.


One day to prep, then an inspection, then a day for the cement coat, then a day for the brown coat, then a day for the color coat is what I had.  
The wire crew is different from the cement crew is different from the finish crew, so you wind up with 4 mobilizations anyhow.


----------



## jcdammeyer (Aug 6, 2022)

PaulL said:


> One day to prep, then an inspection, then a day for the cement coat, then a day for the brown coat, then a day for the color coat is what I had.
> The wire crew is different from the cement crew is different from the finish crew, so you wind up with 4 mobilizations anyhow.


What's a brown coat?  Isn't the second coat usually also a colour coat?


----------



## PaulL (Aug 6, 2022)

I'm not the stucco expert, but the two recent builds had a heavy cement coat, then a thinner leveling and "scratch" coat, then a polymer-based color coat.


----------



## jcdammeyer (Aug 6, 2022)

Just watched some youtube videos on how to stucco.  Now I understand.


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 6, 2022)

Took some time off this afternoon to make another arbour washer. Really happy with this one. And it's for a paying customer 
They spec'ed a thickness of .30" and I managed to hit .2995" so I'm happy with that.
A44 turns very nicely.


----------



## Degen (Aug 7, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> Took some time off this afternoon to make another arbour washer. Really happy with this one. And it's for a paying customer
> They spec'ed a thickness of .30" and I managed to hit .2995" so I'm happy with that.
> A44 turns very nicely.
> View attachment 25413View attachment 25414


Nicely done.  I'd worry less about thickness but about Parallelism.  As long as the reference back references the same on the lip thats what is important.


----------



## LenVW (Aug 7, 2022)

Good work David !!
It is really nice when you hobby can pay for itself.


----------



## Susquatch (Aug 7, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> Thanks John, the estimator mentioned three days so at 1600/day that’s $4800 right there. I can’t see three days though. All the prep we talked about is done. So 1 day to paper, wire and parge and another to apply the finish coat seems reasonable to me. I’ll be very curious to see what estimate I get on Monday.



The cost of this little project of yours makes hobby machining look cheap. 

Is there a good reason that you can't use vinyl siding or some other less expensive but equally good weather proofing? Even a thick plastic over the old wall and then covered with siding would cost WAYY LESS. 

Or how about a mesh backing and flat decorative stone? There are also decorative boards and panels that have artificial stone on them that could be gorgeous. 

Why Stucco? My own hand is on the E-Stop button.


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 7, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> The cost of this little project of yours makes hobby machining look cheap.
> 
> Is there a good reason that you can't use vinyl siding or some other less expensive but equally good weather proofing? Even a thick plastic over the old wall and then covered with siding would cost WAYY LESS.
> 
> ...


Stucco because the rest of the house is stucco. And I'm not confident that a weather-tight seal can be created between siding and the uneven surface of the existing stucco. And as @Dabbler said, we live in rain central. In the winter it rains all the time. Snow is a rarity. So watertight is paramount.


----------



## Susquatch (Aug 7, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> Stucco because the rest of the house is stucco. And I'm not confident that a weather-tight seal can be created between siding and the uneven surface of the existing stucco. And as @Dabbler said, we live in rain central. In the winter it rains all the time. Snow is a rarity. So watertight is paramount.



Sorry, I can't give up on you. Sheet Rock is pretty darn good stuff and would look great with Stucco.






Lots of other colours and styles. The adhesive is waterproof too.

Google man made rock walls.


----------



## phaxtris (Aug 7, 2022)

Unless they re do then entire wall you are always going to see the repair, the texture from the original is almost impossible to match

@Susquatch idea is worth a thought


----------



## Susquatch (Aug 7, 2022)

@David_R8 - I got interested in why Stucco is a superior weatherproofing product. 

What I found suggests it actually isn't. But most people think it is. Invariably it does leak and it actually absorbs water. It depends on a good waterproof barrier behind it. At least that is what I read. 

Here is a good representative quote "_Stucco is the most common exterior cladding here in Southern California. Properly installed, it’s tough, durable, and attractive. But it’s not waterproof. No matter how skilled the plasterer is, rain will get behind stucco._" 

GIve how expensive Stucco is, I would strongly encourage you to look at other alternatives. You might even save enough coin to visit me in Ontario or buy some really cool tools!


----------



## PaulL (Aug 7, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Here is a good representative quote "_Stucco is the most common exterior cladding here in Southern California. Properly installed, it’s tough, durable, and attractive. But it’s not waterproof. No matter how skilled the plasterer is, rain will get behind stucco._"


The BC solution (in most but not all municipalities) now involves "rain screen", which provides an evaporative gap between the stucco and the supporting wall.  Cladding tech just gets more and more complex.


----------



## Degen (Aug 7, 2022)

Based on the recent posts....

One of the things I learned in the high end window industry (yes one of the top products) was that the biggest issue with stucco was improper drainage which causes rot (nothing new here) but this also raises concern with the repair.

The second concern is do you have other hidden issues in the rest of the house that are yet undiscovered.  I would consider a examine of the rest of your house before is in order before going down the rabbit hole, if you are going to invest at least know how much pain there is.


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 8, 2022)

Our house was built in 1920, it is the original dairy farmhouse. It has a lath and plaster exterior so it's been this way since at least the 50's.
We rewired the entire house 16 years ago and took off all of the interior finishing and found zero evidence of water intrusion.


----------



## Dabbler (Aug 8, 2022)

Having renovated 100+ year old  houses in Ontario with my Dad, there's some things about stucco that aren't reflected in many web sites.  Stucco *is* a very effective moisture barrier that also breathes if applied correctly with the right cement.  I've seen stucco houses with the stucco touching beams for over 100 years that didn't rot them - in Ontario where there are 3 seasons of regular but not excessive rain.  

The new techniques of putting a air barrier is an improvement, no doubt - but I think it serves the community best that puts stucco on too thinly, or with more permeable (cheaper) cement).


----------



## PaulL (Aug 8, 2022)

Dabbler said:


> I think it serves the community best that puts stucco on too thinly, or with more permeable (cheaper) cement).


Awkwardly, the rain screen came into use in BC after the leaky condo debacle of the early 90's, where a non-breathing polymer stucco was being used.  It trapped so much moisture as to cause significant structural issues.  
So now we get use rainscreen under pretty much any siding tech.  Sigh.


----------



## Dabbler (Aug 8, 2022)

I remember the leaky condos!  And the cardboard roofs!


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 8, 2022)

Yes, I owned a condo here in Victoria that had to do a million dollar remediation after the leaky condo debacle. Full re-stucco of the exterior. Folks were not happy.


----------



## Tom O (Aug 8, 2022)

Yeah I remember that.


----------



## Degen (Aug 8, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> Our house was built in 1920, it is the original dairy farmhouse. It has a lath and plaster exterior so it's been this way since at least the 50's.
> We rewired the entire house 16 years ago and took off all of the interior finishing and found zero evidence of water intrusion.


Great no surprises (fingers crossed).


----------



## LenVW (Aug 8, 2022)

You never know what you will find in old houses.
When we bought our first house in Stratford, ON . . . we tore out all the original lath & plaster so that we could re-wire and insulate and found a newspaper from 1936 In the attic.


----------



## 6.5 Fan (Aug 8, 2022)

One more reason to move to rural SK. We tend to not get a lot of rain.


----------



## YYCHM (Aug 9, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> I’ll be very curious to see what estimate I get on Monday.



What became of the second quote?


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 9, 2022)

YYCHM said:


> What became of the second quote?


Fellow cam yesterday afternoon. Now I'm waiting for the quote.


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 9, 2022)

Second quote is in. $1600. Same work, same process.


----------



## YYCHM (Aug 9, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> Second quote is in. $1600. Same work, same process.



That's quite the discrepancy between quotes


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 9, 2022)

YYCHM said:


> That's quite the discrepancy between quotes


Yup, the first one pretty much feels like a "we don't want this job" estimate.


----------



## Susquatch (Aug 9, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> Yup, the first one pretty much feels like a "we don't want this job" estimate.



Well, at $1600 I'll stop pushing you to look at other options. Might be a bit cheaper but not enough to make me want to further test the wrath of David. 

Just git er dunn!


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 9, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Well, at $1600 I'll stop pushing you to look at other options. Might be a bit cheaper but not enough to make me want to further test the wrath of David.
> 
> Just git er dunn!


Yup, the fellow hopes to get going next week.


----------



## Susquatch (Aug 9, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> Yup, the fellow hopes to get going next week.



Awesome!


----------



## PaulL (Aug 9, 2022)

That's immensely better.  I found my old quote - $12k did my whole 2-car garage.
So your analysis of "we don't want the job" fits.
Paul


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 9, 2022)

I calculated the


PaulL said:


> That's immensely better.  I found my old quote - $12k did my whole 2-car garage.
> So your analysis of "we don't want the job" fits.
> Paul


I calculated the area to be covered at 60 sq ft. $5000 for that is just complete insanity.


----------



## Dabbler (Aug 9, 2022)

If you consider that they need 500$ to arrive and set up and clean up, $1100 for the coverage isn't out of line.  I was thinking at 1200$ here in Calgary, so it is in the ballpark.


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 10, 2022)

Stucco repair has started!!! 
<happydance>


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 10, 2022)

Oh yeah!


----------



## jcdammeyer (Aug 10, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> Oh yeah!


Looking good!


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 10, 2022)

jcdammeyer said:


> Looking good!


I'm happy. He did a nice job on the lower left corner where I asked if he could parge coat the rough aggregate of the foundation.


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 11, 2022)

All done except for paint!
The texture is almost exactly the same as the house. Very happy with the result.


----------



## jcdammeyer (Aug 11, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> All done except for paint!
> The texture is almost exactly the same as the house. Very happy with the result.


I guess once you slap some paint on it to match the house you'll see if there's any sort of variance. But it really does look great!


----------



## DPittman (Aug 11, 2022)

It seems to me matching texture can be a very difficult thing in stucco.  Now I've only had two stucco jobs done but the fellow that did my garage tried to match my house and he commented that the finish was a bit of a personal flair/technique thing.  
Yours looks very very good match, maybe there is more standard procedures nowadays.


----------



## LenVW (Aug 11, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> All done except for paint!
> The texture is almost exactly the same as the house. Very happy with the result.
> View attachment 25492


Looking good David !!
You never know what you will run into in an older home.


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 11, 2022)

I told the fellow that I was looking for a '10 ft job' meaning that I hoped it would look passable from 10 ft away.


----------



## Hruul (Aug 11, 2022)

Wow that was very quick turn around.  Looks great.


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 11, 2022)

Hruul said:


> Wow that was very quick turn around.  Looks great.


Thanks, we're pretty pleased given that the first quote and a second who got back to me yesterday and said to weeks to even come and look at it.


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 14, 2022)

In anticipation of moving my Unisaw to its new spot in the shop I  cut down the base so that it can fit up against the wall on the right hand end. Previously it extended out to the end of the extension table and would have run into the foundation and not allowed the saw to snug up to the wall.
I lost the shelf that was underneath but I’m going to build a small rolling cabinet instead.


----------



## Degen (Aug 14, 2022)

David, what you are doing applies to most of us.  Solve a problem as it arises and while we are at it improve on the functionality.

Nothing is ever perfect, even if we are the ones designing and building it.


----------



## LenVW (Aug 15, 2022)

Degen said:


> David, what you are doing applies to most of us.  Solve a problem as it arises and while we are at it improve on the functionality.
> 
> Nothing is every perfect, even if we are the ones designing and building it.


After 40 years of design work, the best outcome for any arrangement is . . .
‘continuous improvement’ keep you wits about you.
Tomorrow you will discover another way of making it work . . . better !!


----------



## Susquatch (Aug 15, 2022)

Holy Crap @David_R8 ! I just noticed that this thread has 544 posts on it! 

Your family could prolly use this thread to tell the story of your life!


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 19, 2022)

Two coats on. 




Time to start rebuildening


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 19, 2022)

Holy moly lumber is expensive!
Pressure treated 2x8x8 = $23.08
Pressure treated 4x4x8 =$23.46


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 19, 2022)

$232 worth of lumber.
Five 2x8s
Five 4x4s.


----------



## PaulL (Aug 19, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> $232 worth of lumber.
> Five 2x8s
> Five 4x4s.
> View attachment 25613


Have you priced 12L14 recently?


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 19, 2022)

PaulL said:


> Have you priced 12L14 recently?


No, but I expect it’s equally insane. 
Btw, went to Hardcore Metals for the A44 stock I used on my saw arbor washer and was pleased with the price. Thanks for the referral!


----------



## Degen (Aug 19, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> $232 worth of lumber.
> Five 2x8s
> Five 4x4s.
> View attachment 25613


Making it out of Aluminium is almost cheaper


----------



## LenVW (Aug 19, 2022)

You will be shocked by the price of any good materials these days.
I compared prices for some 6061T6 Bar and would you believe . . .
Metal Supermarket was the least expensive. That would never happen a few years ago.

Even spruce lumber is expensive.


----------



## Degen (Aug 19, 2022)

LenVW said:


> You will be shocked by the price of any good materials these days.
> I compared prices for some 6061T6 Bar and would you believe . . .
> Metal Supermarket was the least expensive. That would never happen a few years ago.
> 
> Even spruce lumber is expensive.


You are looking at the wrong sources


----------



## PaulL (Aug 19, 2022)

Degen said:


> You are looking at the wrong sources


When making one-offs for fun it's hard to order at real volumes.


----------



## Degen (Aug 19, 2022)

PaulL said:


> When making one-offs for fun it's hard to order at real volumes.


Sad but unfortunately true (and that how I started, though that difference between volume and retail has increased dramatically).


----------



## LenVW (Aug 19, 2022)

The CHMW members could become a buying group.
Each member does not consume an adequate amount to warrant ‘stock’.
but,
The total individual needs of the CHMW members could amount to a sizeable volume as long as there are a limited number of sizes and materials listed for SKUs.

The other problem is shipping and the location of SKUs.
Another reason to have more regional chapters of the CHMWs.

Possible . . . with some more information and number crunching.
Something to think about.

@Degen  . . . Any thoughts ?


----------



## Degen (Aug 19, 2022)

LenVW said:


> The CHMW members could become a buying group.
> Each member does not consume an adequate amount to warrant ‘stock’.
> but,
> The total individual needs of the CHMW members could amount to a sizeable volume as long as there are a limited number of sizes and materials listed for SKUs.
> ...


See my post here









						Degen's New Project
					

If members locally (GTA) are interested on my next order if you need something I'd be happy to include it at their minimum per line item cost (not sure what it is currently as my orders are general fairly large so they are somewhat accommodating).  Throwing this out as a feeler and with the...




					canadianhobbymetalworkers.com


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 20, 2022)

Had a change of plans yesterday. 
I remembered that I had eight rough sawn cedar 4x4s (so actually 4" x 4") so I returned the five pressure treated ones and bought three 2x12s for the stair stringers. Total price difference was $32.


----------



## BMW Rider (Aug 20, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> $232 worth of lumber.
> Five 2x8s
> Five 4x4s.
> View attachment 25613



Actually its about $100 *worth* of lumber, it just *cost* $232.


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 20, 2022)

100% @BMW Rider!


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 20, 2022)

The rebuildening has begun.


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 21, 2022)

Stair stringer template made. Fits perfectly. Stairs land exactly where I need them to land.


----------



## YYCHM (Aug 21, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> Stair stringer template made. Fits perfectly. Stairs land exactly where I need them to land.



Looks to me that you've done this before


----------



## RobinHood (Aug 21, 2022)

Notice the CAD drawing on the wooden posts… online stair calculator to the rescue?

Looks great David!


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 21, 2022)

YYCHM said:


> Looks to me that you've done this before


Only once at my Calgary house. Those were a full story tall. Hard to do by myself.


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 21, 2022)

RobinHood said:


> Notice the CAD drawing on the wooden posts… online stair calculator to the rescue?
> 
> Looks great David!


You got it sir!


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 21, 2022)

And decked.
Need risers filled in and railings but that’s me done for the today.
Tomorrow off to Vancouver to pick up my wood lathe.


----------



## YYCHM (Aug 21, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> Tomorrow off to Vancouver to pick up my wood lathe.



David got himself a new wood lathe?


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 21, 2022)

YYCHM said:


> David got himself a new wood lathe?


Yup. A Rikon 70-220VSR


----------



## Susquatch (Aug 21, 2022)

YYCHM said:


> David got himself a new wood lathe?



I think he isn't really happy with his new stairs and wants a spiral staircase with all the support systems turned on a wood lathe, and the steps milled out on a giant router (aka wood mill).......  Its just too painful to think he is really going over to the dark side.


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 21, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> I think he isn't really happy with his new stairs and wants a spiral staircase with all the support systems turned on a wood lathe, and the steps milled out on a giant router (aka wood mill).......  Its just too painful to think he is really going over to the dark side.


Definitely been a woodworker longer than a metal worker


----------



## Degen (Aug 21, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> Definitely been a woodworker longer than a metal worker


Metal is just a harder wood.


----------



## DPittman (Aug 22, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> View attachment 25690And decked.
> Need risers filled in and railings but that’s me done for the today.
> Tomorrow off to Vancouver to pick up my wood lathe.


Looks good.  I'm just working on a set of stairs at my mother-in-laws place (also a very wet climate) and decided to go with metal risers instead of wood.  Is that something you considered and I am curious why you obviously chose wood over them?


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 22, 2022)

DPittman said:


> Looks good.  I'm just working on a set of stairs at my mother-in-laws place (also a very wet climate) and decided to go with metal risers instead of wood.  Is that something you considered and I am curious why you obviously chose wood over them?


I thought about metal stringers briefly but wanted the flexibility that came with making my own. Metal ones were also very expensive. I was looking at well over $750 for three stringers.


----------



## DPittman (Aug 22, 2022)

O


David_R8 said:


> I thought about metal stringers briefly but wanted the flexibility that came with making my own. Metal ones were also very expensive. I was looking at well over $750 for three stringers.


Oh my gosh, my 5 step risers were about $56 each and I'm using two of them for a 42" wide step. There were aluminum ones also available for similar cost (maybe $60 a piece).


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 22, 2022)

Let there be posts!


----------



## DPittman (Aug 22, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> Let there be posts!
> View attachment 25725


That wood all appears to be the brown "treated" stuff, is that correct. That's what I used also for the treads and I splashed on more of the zinc based treatment but still don't expect them to last real well.


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## jcdammeyer (Aug 22, 2022)

Very disappointed.  Here you went to Vancouver to get a wood lathe and yet the posts are square.  
sigh... what's up with that....    <WINK>


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 22, 2022)

DPittman said:


> That wood all appears to be the brown "treated" stuff, is that correct. That's what I used also for the treads and I splashed on more of the zinc based treatment but still don't expect them to last real well.


We will put the same stuff on all the end cuts too. 
If I get ten years out of them I’ll be happy.


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 22, 2022)

jcdammeyer said:


> Very disappointed.  Here you went to Vancouver to get a wood lathe and yet the posts are square.
> sigh... what's up with that....    <WINK>


I know right? I’m such a slacker!


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 22, 2022)

Thinking about adding a small bench at the top against the railing so a person can sit and deal with wet shoes.


----------



## Tom O (Aug 23, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> I know right? I’m such a slacker!


I hope you at least used a round hole for those square posts!
And the cones of silence don’t work they still scream as they go over the edge!


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 23, 2022)

Tom O said:


> I hope you at least used a round hole for those square posts!
> And the cones of silence don’t work they still scream as they go over the edge!


But of course, because I'm all about doing things right


----------



## jcdammeyer (Aug 23, 2022)

Maybe a flip up bench.  When down acts a small fence/railing.  When up it's in the way of anyone tumbling through and the upper part is then the back rest.


----------



## 6.5 Fan (Aug 23, 2022)

Perhaps a vise for that bench at the back door. You could use it to hold stuff as you swap shoes.


----------



## Darren (Aug 23, 2022)

Nice work.  

They make brackets for the bench that you want.  Home hardware  had em last time I needed them


----------



## Susquatch (Aug 23, 2022)

If I were you, I'd make that bench the whole wall and tie it down to the deck. Otherwise you are gunna have to lag the railing into that new oyster shell stucco of yours. 

Which begs the dumb question, why didn't you put a post in the back against the wall?


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 24, 2022)

Darren said:


> Nice work.
> 
> They make brackets for the bench that you want.  Home hardware  had em last time I needed them


You wouldn't have a link to them would you?


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 24, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> If I were you, I'd make that bench the whole wall and tie it down to the deck. Otherwise you are gunna have to lag the railing into that new oyster shell stucco of yours.
> 
> Which begs the dumb question, why didn't you put a post in the back against the wall?


I have now. That photo was prior to installing the post.


----------



## Darren (Aug 24, 2022)

https://www.homedepot.ca/product/peak-products-plastic-deck-bench-bracket-in-black/1000408112


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 24, 2022)

Thanks Darren.
It occurs to me that I have 2"x10"x4' cedar stair treads from the old stairs. I'll look through them and make a simple bench out of the best of them.


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 26, 2022)

Half the railing is done.


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## DPittman (Aug 26, 2022)

Purty nice.


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 26, 2022)

DPittman said:


> Purty nice.


Thanks, it’s fussy work that took longer than I expected.


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 29, 2022)

Managed to get the railings done and some paint on.


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## jcdammeyer (Aug 29, 2022)

That picture reminds me of painting our bedroom in our new house.  When I first glanced at your picture above I thought, why did you leave a bare spot on the railing closest to the house.  Then I realized it was the sun reflecting.  Now I can't see it as not painted anymore.  Like one of those drawings that looks one way and then clicks and looks different.

We painted our bedroom a pale yellow before we actually moved in. To cover an awful looking green.  After the first coat it was clear I needed a second coat as it had a definite green tinge.  Which I did.  When dry I looked at it and thought.  What crap yellow is this?  Still green showing through. Came back that evening to paint third coat and now it was light yellow like we expected.

Turns out the sun, reflecting off the green trees and bushes outside the window made the yellow look green.  One coat would have been enough.


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 29, 2022)

I have done exactly the same thing!


----------



## Susquatch (Aug 29, 2022)

I've done it too. I think the human brain is hardwired to remember things we don't like. Things we like are not so easily remembered. That's why it will continue to look green for years to come. 

It's the same with all the things I did wrong in my whole life. My bride cannot forget them no matter how many wonderful things I have done for her since.


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 29, 2022)

Under stairs shed framed up. 
Need to sheet it and put on the roof and door.


----------



## DPittman (Aug 29, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> Under stairs shed framed up.
> Need to sheet it and put on the roof and door.
> View attachment 25933


Looks a bit like the place my wife sends me to sleep once in awhile.


----------



## jcdammeyer (Aug 29, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> Under stairs shed framed up.
> Need to sheet it and put on the roof and door.


What kind of roof?


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 29, 2022)

jcdammeyer said:


> What kind of roof?


It’s going to be a simple shingle roof. I have a roll of 60# paper so I’ll lay down four or so layers of that and then shingle it. Shallow slope but I don’t have a lot of options to maintain as much height as possible. 
Right now I have four feet vertical to the bottom of the ‘rafters’.


----------



## Dusty (Aug 30, 2022)

DPittman said:


> Looks a bit like the place my wife sends me to sleep once in awhile.



Been there done that have the 'T' shirt, over time one forgets how many visits and forgetting is likely what got you there in the first place.  LOL


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## Susquatch (Aug 30, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> It’s going to be a simple shingle roof. I have a roll of 60# paper so I’ll lay down four or so layers of that and then shingle it. Shallow slope but I don’t have a lot of options to maintain as much height as possible.
> Right now I have four feet vertical to the bottom of the ‘rafters’.



With very iittle slope, I would not bother with the shingles. Just put two layers of rain gaurd on it.


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 30, 2022)

The heat is on.
So is the roof deck.
Just need to sheet the walls.
Holy sheet, I can almost see the end of this project.


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## YYCHM (Aug 30, 2022)

So how are you building this shed?  Pulling it out to work on it and then pushing it back under the stairs?


----------



## David_R8 (Aug 30, 2022)

The floor is complete and basically in the right place. The walls are framed but just tacked to the floor and the roof is only tacked at the front.
I’ll pull the roof off and shingle it, pull the walls out and sheet them.
I'll slide the sheeted walls back into position and screw them into the floor, then lift  the roof back into position and attach it to the walls.
Then I'll build the door and trim out the front.
@jcdammeyer


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## jcdammeyer (Aug 30, 2022)

YYCHM said:


> So how are you building this shed?  Pulling it out to work on it and then pushing it back under the stairs?


I second that question.


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## BMW Rider (Aug 31, 2022)

Kinda of a ship in a bottle build.


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## Tecnico (Aug 31, 2022)

BMW Rider said:


> Kinda of a ship in a bottle build.


LOL! Beat me to it with that one!  I was scrolling down to post & saw yours!

BTW, my vote for the roof (and walls) is roll roofing.  No seams (on top) and roll it down over the sides too!

Are you sure you don't want to put the shed on rollers recessed into the floor?

D


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## David_R8 (Aug 31, 2022)

I'd do roll roofing but I don't have any and don't really want to buy any. I do have a bundle of shingles leftover from another project. The roof is only 66" x 42".


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## Tecnico (Aug 31, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> I'd do roll roofing but I don't have any and don't really want to buy any. I do have a bundle of shingles leftover from another project. The roof is only 66" x 42".


I can't fault you for that, storage space cleaned out and no cash layout!  Saves $ for those rollers. 

D


----------



## Susquatch (Aug 31, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> I do have a bundle of shingles leftover from another project.



The trouble is that shingles will not seal a flat roof. The wood will just turn into a moldy mess underneath them. Get a small roll of rain and ice gaurd. It will stick to your existing plywood and seal around the roofing nails. As @Tecnico says, just fold it over the walls.


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## YotaBota (Aug 31, 2022)

I have some vinyl decking but alas not enough. The vinyl is waterproof, just glued down with contact cement and should last for ever under the porch. Any installers near you?, they may give you an end cut that size.


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## David_R8 (Aug 31, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> The trouble is that shingles will not seal a flat roof. The wood will just turn into a moldy mess underneath them. Get a small roll of rain and ice gaurd. It will stick to your existing plywood and seal around the roofing nails. As @Tecnico says, just fold it over the walls.


Do you have a link to this stuff?


----------



## Susquatch (Aug 31, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> Do you have a link to this stuff?



Here you go. 





__





						GRACE ICE & WATER SHIELD® Roofing Underlayment | GCP Applied Technologies
					

Other waterproofing products have an inconsistent seal. Grace Ice & Water Shield® roofing underlayment seals around fasteners, seals directly to the deck and seals to itself for watertight laps, protecting roofs from the damaging effects of water.




					ca.gcpat.com
				




You can get it at Home Hardware, Home Depot, Roofing Companies, Rona, Lowe's, etc etc. 

But I agree with @YotaBota . Just stop someplace where they are doing a new roof and beg for a small piece. 

If they don't have it, make a note to NEVER use them to roof your house. Any reputable roofer will apply one of two strips of Rain & Ice Gaurd along the bottom edge of your roof before nailing on the shingles. Basically, it stops water from backing up at the bottom due to freezing or ice buildup.


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## Tecnico (Aug 31, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Any reputable roofer will apply one of two strips of Rain & Ice Guard along the bottom edge of your roof before nailing on the shingles. Basically, it stops water from backing up at the bottom due to freezing or ice buildup.



That's been code in my neighborhood for at least a dozen years

D


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## Dabbler (Sep 2, 2022)

I get asked to do friends and friend of friends roofs, because a lot of roofers in Calgary see roofing as unskilled.  To the point:  a lot of their workers don't realize water runs downhill.  I also oversee roof jobs where insurance dictates the short list of companies and the customer wants a leak-proof roof.

For instance,  reusing the tar paper with thousands of holes in it.  Really?  for saving 100-200$ on a 14K$ job they do the shortcut and the roof leaks.  No ice shield is a touchy spot for me,  No drip guard on the perimeter.  What REALLY bugs me is no drip guard on gable ends.  the plywood is directly exposed to weather.  Relying on plastic cement as flashing instead of lead or galvanized flashing -- nope.  On one member's house they left a bunch of nails exposed, on cowings for penetrations and end of the peak.  I could list 30 more bad practices I've seen.  

Here in Calgary *most* roofers are unskilled.


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## Susquatch (Sep 3, 2022)

Dabbler said:


> I get asked to do friends and friend of friends roofs, because a lot of roofers in Calgary see roofing as unskilled.  To the point:  a lot of their workers don't realize water runs downhill.  I also oversee roof jobs where insurance dictates the short list of companies and the customer wants a leak-proof roof.
> 
> For instance,  reusing the tar paper with thousands of holes in it.  Really?  for saving 100-200$ on a 14K$ job they do the shortcut and the roof leaks.  No ice shield is a touchy spot for me,  No drip guard on the perimeter.  What REALLY bugs me is no drip guard on gable ends.  the plywood is directly exposed to weather.  Relying on plastic cement as flashing instead of lead or galvanized flashing -- nope.  On one member's house they left a bunch of nails exposed, on cowings for penetrations and end of the peak.  I could list 30 more bad practices I've seen.
> 
> Here in Calgary *most* roofers are unskilled.



It's not much different here in Ontario @Dabbler .

I am not good with heights so I have not done many roofs myself. The first roof I did myself was actually on the home farm in Saskatchewan. When I hire a roofer, I go by their reputation not the lowest price. 

Like you, I'm a real stickler on the details. Everything from proper use of step flashing, to valleys, to rain & ice gaurd (I even want 2 rows not one) to drip edges, and on and on. I think my biggest bitch is improper (or no) step flashing. 

I once had to go after an outfit that sealed my driveway without getting our consent and actually had the balls to put a lean on our house when we refused to pay. I had to take it to small claims court. He hired a lawyer - I didn't. His own lawyer threw him under the bus. Part of the lawyers defense was to point out that guys doing driveways are not nearly as bad as roofers. I remember it because the whole court room burst out laughing. 

Anyways, I'm not really adding any value here. Just reminiscing and agreeing with you. Roofers and driveway pavers are generally a bad lot. 

Perhaps if I could add just one detail nobody has mentioned (or I didn't spot it) is the use of long life shingles. I always pay the extra for long life shingles. As a result, I've never had a wind or hail related failure even when every other roof in the area was blitzed. As a bonus they usually look better too.


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## Dabbler (Sep 3, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> I always pay the extra for long life shingles.


Good point.   I've moved to using rubber roofing.  zero chance of hail damage, faster to install, Looks like they'll outlast asphalt, and it recycles tires.


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## Tom O (Sep 3, 2022)

I’ve lived in my house since 82 and have never had a hail claim my brother at the time lived 4 blocks away got hit hard I’ve just had no luck.


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## David_R8 (Sep 4, 2022)

New wall in. Now to move the other wall.


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## David_R8 (Sep 4, 2022)

What thrash to undo this wall.


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## jcdammeyer (Sep 4, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> What thrash to undo this wall.


Thrash?


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## David_R8 (Sep 4, 2022)

jcdammeyer said:


> Thrash?


Sorry, typo. What a thrash.
I somehow imagined that I could just unscrew the plywood and the framing would magically detach from the exterior wall and the post and poof, wall moved.
Nope, no magic occurred so I had to deconstruct it down to the last stud.

I ran into a snag with my shed build. 
Wednesday Home Depot had 60 sheets of LP Smartpanel. Friday they had none. Nor did Lowes or any other building supply. 
So my plan to get the shed done so I could move all the wood into it before moving the wall went sideways
Today I said “Sod it I’m moving the wall today.”


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## David_R8 (Sep 5, 2022)

Wall moved. 




Now I have separate and dedicated 91 sq ft of metal working space and 294 sq ft if woodworking  space.


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## YotaBota (Sep 5, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> Now I have separate and dedicated 91 sq ft of metal working space and 294 sq ft if woodworking space


Ya but do you have room to get yourself in to do some work? LOL
You made quick work of that, you hadn't even started when I was there yesterday.


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## David_R8 (Sep 5, 2022)

YotaBota said:


> Ya but do you have room to get yourself in to do some work? LOL
> You made quick work of that, you hadn't even started when I was there yesterday.


The metal working side is a mess because I can’t remove the wood. 
But I can see the floor on the woodworking side.


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## jcdammeyer (Sep 5, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> The metal working side is a mess because I can’t remove the wood.
> But I can see the floor on the woodworking side.


I think to be fair we should insist on seeing a youtube video of the door actually swinging on the hinges.  For all we know it's just set in place...


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## David_R8 (Sep 9, 2022)

Alrighty. Walls are sheeted and painted. Next up roof, door and trim.


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## David_R8 (Sep 10, 2022)

Roof is done.
Layer of IKO Stormguard and then a layer of shingles.
Blasted struggle to lift the shingled roof into place. Six, six ft long courses of shingles is a lot of weight.


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## David_R8 (Sep 11, 2022)

The Door.


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## David_R8 (Sep 11, 2022)

And it’s hung!
Just need something to keep it closed.


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## YYCHM (Sep 11, 2022)

What gets stored in there?


----------



## David_R8 (Sep 11, 2022)

YYCHM said:


> What gets stored in there?


Wood that’s currently stored in 1/4 of my garage. Building this basically gives me back a quarter of my garage.


----------



## Doggggboy (Sep 11, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> And it’s hung!
> Just need something to keep it closed.
> View attachment 26475


But, but....shouldn't there be pocket holes?
According to YouTube there should be pocket holes in everything.


----------



## David_R8 (Sep 11, 2022)

Doggggboy said:


> But, but....shouldn't there be pocket holes?
> According to YouTube there should be pocket holes in everything.


Hold on, I’ll put some in!


----------



## Susquatch (Sep 11, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> Wood that’s currently stored in 1/4 of my garage. Building this basically gives me back a quarter of my garage.



What kind of wood is this David? Surely not 2x4s or plywood. And are you putting wood racks in there now too? 

I always wanted to build a wood storage rack in my barn. Bur I never got around to it. Too many things with higher priority. I had wanted something that would handle everything from plywood to 2x12x16 - everything on end but not all leaning on each other. Been 10 years now and hasn't happened yet...... Might not ever happen......


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## David_R8 (Sep 11, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> What kind of wood is this David? Surely not 2x4s or plywood. And are you putting wood racks in there now too?
> 
> I always wanted to build a wood storage rack in my barn. Bur I never got around to it. Too many things with higher priority. I had wanted something that would handle everything from plywood to 2x12x16 - everything on end but not all leaning on each other. Been 10 years now and hasn't happened yet...... Might not ever happen......


I’m being ruthless in my wood purge so it’s strictly hardwood and some half sheets of Baltic Birch that I’m keeping as a hedge against inflation 
I’m not sure about the wood racks. Lee Valley used to carry a nice setup. Need to browse their catalogue again.


----------



## David_R8 (Oct 17, 2022)

Alrighty folks, an update from the shop.
Way back in June I bought plans from Rob Cosman for his workbench. It's specifically designed for handtool woodworking. Then I got Covid, then I had to rebuild the house stairs and finally I built a greenhouse in the backyard. After buying the materials in August, I finally got started on the bench last week.
The base is built from 3/4" Baltic Birch ply strips laminated into two legs and four stretchers. The top is three layers of 1" MDF.
The top weighs 90 lbs and the base is another 90 lbs. It's really solid.

Baltic Birch strips, all cut with my track saw. I was amazed by consistency I managed to get. These are all within 1/64" of the same width.




Cut to the required lengths for the glue up.





Two trestles and the top stretchers. The stretchers are secured with 3/8" threaded rod with nuts and washers. 
Even with only the top stretchers it did not rack.




The top is glued up in stages with 1-1/2" wood screws and washers  on a 6" grid providing the clamping pressure.
This was the part that I was more nervous about because it's a big area to glue and you only get one shot at it.
The bottom layer is cut to the final dimension of 60" x 20" and the subsequent layers are 1/4" over size then trimmed with a bearing bit in a router.








Tonight I hope to glue the final layer on the top.
Then install the vise, cut the vise chop and drill the dog holes and coat with shellac.


----------



## PeterT (Oct 17, 2022)

Looks robust. Are the screws / washers just to hold the 2 plywood laminations during glue cure?


----------



## David_R8 (Oct 17, 2022)

PeterT said:


> Looks robust. Are the screws / washers just to hold the 2 plywood laminations during glue cure?


Yes, the screws are removed after about an hour or two. 
Once the glue is spread and the second MDF layer is down, it's really hard to keep the two pieces aligned because the glue acts like like a lubricant. 
I used trigger clamps to clamp two corners at one end for alignment and then screwed down the middle two rows then down the edges


----------



## PeterT (Oct 17, 2022)

Its too late for you now & you are obviously following a specific design but I'll out a comment for future considerations. My buddy made me some work surface table tops back when I was doing work that required as flat & stiff a surface as possible. The top & bottom surface is 3/4" good grade plywood, but they are separated by vertical plywood (I'll call them) stringers from same material, about 5" tall spaced about 8-12" apart. They run the length of the surface & also box the periphery. Glued & screwed from both sides so very much self-aligning as long as the stringers are cut the same. So the end result is kind of like an 'I' beam in section, the depth yields very much stiffer surface than 2 plywoods laminated to one another. It also resists warping with different humidity or temperature.

Now mounting things like a vise is a bit different because the bolt passes through a thicker section, but its the same thing. I've also seen people open up windows in the periphery between the stringers which then makes for great storage space like bar clamps, even drawers if so inclined.
I'll snap a picture of mine if you are interested. One is a 4x8 work surface, the other is a table top with a bunch of IKEA cabinet drawer units.


----------



## David_R8 (Oct 17, 2022)

PeterT said:


> Its too late for you now & you are obviously following a specific design but I'll out a comment for future considerations. My buddy made me some work surface table tops back when I was doing work that required as flat & stiff a surface as possible. The top & bottom surface is 3/4" good grade plywood, but they are separated by vertical plywood (I'll call them) stringers from same material, about 5" tall spaced about 8-12" apart. They run the length of the surface & also box the periphery. Glued & screwed from both sides so very much self-aligning as long as the stringers are cut the same. So the end result is kind of like an 'I' beam in section, the depth yields very much stiffer surface than 2 plywoods laminated to one another. It also resists warping with different humidity or temperature.
> 
> Now mounting things like a vise is a bit different because the bolt passes through a thicker section, but its the same thing. I've also seen people open up windows in the periphery between the stringers which then makes for great storage space like bar clamps, even drawers if so inclined.
> I'll snap a picture of mine if you are interested. One is a 4x8 work surface, the other is a table top with a bunch of IKEA cabinet drawer units.


I believe that's called a torsion box. Definitely good for strong, lightweight stable surfaces.
The reason for this design is three-fold:
1) The bench is designed for hand tool woodworking so hand planing and sawing. That requires a bench with weight and solidity.
2) Cost. The materials to build a hardwood bench would likely run $3,000-$5,000
3) Easy to build


----------



## trlvn (Oct 17, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> The bench is designed for hand tool woodworking so hand planing and sawing.


Attaboy!

What height are you aiming for?

Way off topic here but have you run across the OldTools list?



			OldTools Mailing List Control Panel
		


I used to be subscribed years ago.  A fellow I met through the list has been a buddy for about 25 years.  He is now one of the Elders.  (He also posts on CanadianWoodworking from time to time.)  Great bunch.

Craig
(In 1993(?), the maple for my workbench--jointed, planed and cut to my list--cost me about $200.  I thought that was insanely expensive at that time!)


----------



## David_R8 (Oct 17, 2022)

trlvn said:


> Attaboy!
> 
> What height are you aiming for?
> 
> ...


Thanks Craig, appreciate the link.
@trlvn It should end up with a top at 34-1/2"
The material were insanely expensive... Two sheets of 5x5 3/4" Baltic Birch, one sheet of 1" MDF and a slab of 8/4 maple 10" x 30" was $495...


----------



## Chicken lights (Oct 17, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> I believe that's called a torsion box. Definitely good for strong, lightweight stable surfaces.
> The reason for this design is three-fold:
> 1) The bench is designed for hand tool woodworking so hand planing and sawing. That requires a bench with weight and solidity.
> 2) Cost. The materials to build a hardwood bench would likely run $3,000-$5,000
> 3) Easy to build


Four hardwood 4x4’s, four feet long and one 8 foot piece, fell off a trailer by the shop door. If a fellow was hankering to build a bench, there’s enough material there for four legs and two cross pieces. Weird coincidence


----------



## David_R8 (Oct 17, 2022)

Chicken lights said:


> Four hardwood 4x4’s, four feet long and one 8 foot piece, fell off a trailer by the shop door. If a fellow was hankering to build a bench, there’s enough material there for four legs and two cross pieces. Weird coincidence


That's probably $400 worth of wood...


----------



## DPittman (Oct 17, 2022)

PeterT said:


> Its too late for you now & you are obviously following a specific design but I'll out a comment for future considerations. My buddy made me some work surface table tops back when I was doing work that required as flat & stiff a surface as possible. The top & bottom surface is 3/4" good grade plywood, but they are separated by vertical plywood (I'll call them) stringers from same material, about 5" tall spaced about 8-12" apart. They run the length of the surface & also box the periphery. Glued & screwed from both sides so very much self-aligning as long as the stringers are cut the same. So the end result is kind of like an 'I' beam in section, the depth yields very much stiffer surface than 2 plywoods laminated to one another. It also resists warping with different humidity or temperature.
> 
> Now mounting things like a vise is a bit different because the bolt passes through a thicker section, but its the same thing. I've also seen people open up windows in the periphery between the stringers which then makes for great storage space like bar clamps, even drawers if so inclined.
> I'll snap a picture of mine if you are interested. One is a 4x8 work surface, the other is a table top with a bunch of IKEA cabinet drawer units.


That's sounds interesting, I'd love to see a picture.


----------



## David_R8 (Oct 17, 2022)

DPittman said:


> That's sounds interesting, I'd love to see a picture.


While this is made with solid material it would be like this:


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## PeterT (Oct 17, 2022)

DPittman said:


> That's sounds interesting, I'd love to see a picture.


Here is my smaller table top (grafted onto new bank of IKEA drawer units). And in lower left of one picture you can see corner of my 4x8 work table, same general construction. My buddy made the 4 corner posts  & 2 intermediary posts from 3/4 plywood in a 6x6" box section. David is scaring me about wood prices, I guess I better itemize it in the Will haha


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## Susquatch (Oct 17, 2022)

Chicken lights said:


> Four hardwood 4x4’s, four feet long and one 8 foot piece, fell off a trailer by the shop door. If a fellow was hankering to build a bench, there’s enough material there for four legs and two cross pieces. Weird coincidence



You are one very lucky fellow. Did he hit a speed bump..... LMAO!


----------



## Susquatch (Oct 17, 2022)

@PeterT & @David_R8. A Woodworking bench like yours has been on my to do list for decades. Maybe someday I'll actually make one. 

I love the idea of the hollow bench. 

My first bench was made by laminating 2x4s together and topping them with a piece of dressed one side 3/4" plywood. My son has that bench now. 

Every so often I look at various plans for building a cabinet makers bench and drool. 

I'm jealous of what both of you have done.


----------



## Chicken lights (Oct 17, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> That's probably $400 worth of wood...


There’s no way, 24’ of hardwood 4x4 is $400....

Is there? You’re gonna make me price this now


----------



## Chicken lights (Oct 17, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> You are one very lucky fellow. Did he hit a speed bump..... LMAO!


I don’t ask questions


----------



## Susquatch (Oct 17, 2022)

Chicken lights said:


> There’s no way, 24’ of hardwood 4x4 is $400....
> 
> Is there? You’re gonna make me price this now



Depends on what hardwood and what grade. 400 could be very cheap or very expensive. 

I have Ash and Wild Black Cherry up the wazoo. Expensive to buy but free to you. But you will have to dry and mill it.


----------



## David_R8 (Oct 17, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Depends on what hardwood and what grade. 400 could be very cheap or very expensive.
> 
> I have Ash and Wild Black Cherry up the wazoo. Expensive to buy but free to you. But you will have to dry and mill it.


If shipping weren't so expensive I'd love to have some cherry for turning!


----------



## David_R8 (Oct 17, 2022)

PeterT said:


> Here is my smaller table top (grafted onto new bank of IKEA drawer units). And in lower left of one picture you can see corner of my 4x8 work table, same general construction. My buddy made the 4 corner posts  & 2 intermediary posts from 3/4 plywood in a 6x6" box section. David is scaring me about wood prices, I guess I better itemize it in the Will haha


My hedge against inflation is a stash of Baltic Birch!


----------



## David_R8 (Oct 17, 2022)

Chicken lights said:


> There’s no way, 24’ of hardwood 4x4 is $400....
> 
> Is there? You’re gonna make me price this now


There's 32 bd ft in that amount of wood. Eastern Maple for me is $14/bd ft so that's $448. Red oak is $12 so a bit cheaper


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## Tom O (Oct 17, 2022)

Dads bench for the Clausing was 2x4‘s with 3/4 ply on top we added a piece of 1 1/2 thick solid desktop on top.


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## David_R8 (Oct 17, 2022)

Tom O said:


> Dads bench for the Clausing was 2x4‘s with 3/4 ply on top we added a piece of 1 1/2 thick solid desktop on top.


That basically what my lathe bench is; fir 2x3 laminated together. Heavy as heck.


----------



## Tom O (Oct 17, 2022)

Yep I pity my son when I kick it so far downstairs there is a bb 601 mill, Clausing lathe, Atlas shaper, 2 Multi printing presses with camera and vacuum (arc) platemaker, Dads toolbox, Adrian’s English Wheel, 18” 3 in one for sheet metal, and a PA bead roller.
Luckily the garage toys (a) we’re too heavy (b) wouldn’t fit downstairs (c) some required 3 phase power.
I can see it now house for sale hobby shop included


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## Susquatch (Oct 18, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> If shipping weren't so expensive I'd love to have some cherry for turning!



Send me a PM with the size you need and let's figure it out.


----------



## Chicken lights (Oct 18, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> If shipping weren't so expensive I'd love to have some cherry for turning!


Don’t forget about Canada Post free shipping Tuesdays....

https://www.canadapost-postescanada...nMahBM8rittZpO8t4J4aAryFEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds


----------



## Janger (Oct 18, 2022)

I thought for sure you were kidding or something - but yea sign up for some sort of business account and you can ship a box today for free.


----------



## David_R8 (Oct 22, 2022)

A few more pics of my bench build.
Last top layer glue-up




Vise installed.













Sharpening station done




Dog holes drilled.




My layout was spot on and I didn't drill into the legs!




Dog holes chamfered.




I also soaked the holes in cyanoacrylate glue to firm up the MDF.
Next I'll start applying shellac to the top.


----------



## jcdammeyer (Oct 22, 2022)

I've had shellac on my table saw mdf out feed table for decades. Love it!


----------



## Susquatch (Oct 22, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> I also soaked the holes in cyanoacrylate glue to firm up the MDF.



Minwax sells a special wood hardener for soft or punky wood. Works great for repairing window and door sills and frames. I'd bet it would soak in and harden up your MDF better than cyanoacrylate would. But who knows till you try it. I've only ever used it to repair window and door frames. Works fantastic for that.


----------



## Dan Dubeau (Oct 22, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Minwax sells a special wood hardener for soft or punky wood. Works great for repairing window and door sills and frames. I'd bet it would soak in and harden up your MDF better than cyanoacrylate would. But who knows till you try it. I've only ever used it to repair window and door frames. Works fantastic for that.


I use that stuff to make wood buttons for my Wifes knitted sweaters.  I don't follow the instructions, I soak them for a few days in it, then take them out to dry.  It works great and hardens them right up.  Theres another product called cactus juice that wood turners use and it's supposed to be the best, but it's expensive, and has a shelf life.  

Nice bench David.  Looks really sturdy, and a nice spot to build from.


----------



## David_R8 (Oct 22, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Minwax sells a special wood hardener for soft or punky wood. Works great for repairing window and door sills and frames. I'd bet it would soak in and harden up your MDF better than cyanoacrylate would. But who knows till you try it. I've only ever used it to repair window and door frames. Works fantastic for that.


I haven't tried that but I know turners who have used it and it seems to work well on punky or spalted wood. 
I went with the CA as that what the bench designer has done. He's got a fleet of them in service at his school in NB and they are holding up well after many students have put them through their paces.


----------



## Susquatch (Oct 22, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> I haven't tried that but I know turners who have used it and it seems to work well on punky or spalted wood.
> I went with the CA as that what the bench designer has done. He's got a fleet of them in service at his school in NB and they are holding up well after many students have put them through their paces.



Hey, you can't beat experience. If it works and you know it works, go for it! 

Course, if you ever glue your finger into a glove or a bench hole it will be another experience that might suggest other approaches.... LOL!


----------



## StevSmar (Oct 22, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> Vise installed.


That’s an interesting looking vice, what type is it?

My favourite finish is from this range: Tried and True Linseed Oil
It (eventually) dries up quite hard and can easily be re-coated. It won’t stop oil-rings or things like that.
I’ve yet to use it on a workbench, but it’s been great for other things around the shop.


----------



## David_R8 (Oct 22, 2022)

Here's the new lathe.


----------



## David_R8 (Oct 22, 2022)

StevSmar said:


> That’s an interesting looking vice, what type is it?
> 
> My favourite finish is from this range: Tried and True Linseed Oil
> It (eventually) dries up quite hard and can easily be re-coated. It won’t stop oil-rings or things like that.
> I’ve yet to use it on a workbench, but it’s been great for other things around the shop.


It's a Sjoberg from Sweden. Very different design. It has rectangular tubes instead of round rods for alignment. And a phenolic block that can be adjusted to remove any racking. You can see the adjstment bolts in the second pic. Not cheap but very impressive bit of kit.








						Sjoberg Adjustable Vise
					

The Sjöberg Adjustable Vise is my favorite production vise and it fits most workbenches. These are the vises that I use on all Training Workshop benches. Find out why its the best at RobCosman.com by watching our product videos, seeing our detailed pictures, reading our in-depth product...




					robcosman.com
				



I just picked up a can of Tried and True, haven't tried it yet.


----------



## Susquatch (Oct 23, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> Here's the new lathe.



VERY NICE! I looked that baby up to get more info on it.

I'm not sure what the outrigger is for, but I noticed that the head can be swivelled! Not sure what that is for either!

Maybe you can mount a 6ft root ball that way...... LOL! Can you imagine the carnage if that ever came off! Just kidding about 6 ft, but bigger than 16" for sure! 







I've always used my metal lathe to turn wood. I don't think I do enough wood work anymore to justify buying a wood lathe.


----------



## StevSmar (Oct 23, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> It's a Sjoberg from Sweden.


It is a little expensive, though it looks nice.

I’ve been tentatively thinking about making a new woodworking bench and was looking at this vice: Veritas Quick-Release Front Vise It’s even slightly more pricey than yours…

It takes a days or so for the Tried and True Linseed oil to dry enough (from second or more coats) to where you can start using it, it’s become my favourite finish.


----------



## StevSmar (Oct 23, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> I'm not sure what the outrigger is for, but I noticed that the head can be swivelled! Not sure what that is for either!


My guess is that feature “bowls” purchasers over…


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## David_R8 (Oct 23, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> VERY NICE! I looked that baby up to get more info on it.
> 
> I'm not sure what the outrigger is for, but I noticed that the head can be swivelled! Not sure what that is for either!
> 
> ...


The headstock rotates so that you don't have to lean over the bed when hollowing out a bowl. It's a feature people either love or have no use for. Other lathes have a sliding headstock so that it can be slid to the end of the bed and the turner works from there. Similar result, different way of getting there. I prefer a rotating headstock.
The outrigger is exactly as @StevSmar notes, it is for turning pieces bigger than 16" in diameter. Spin the headstock 90 degrees and away you go.


----------



## Susquatch (Oct 23, 2022)

StevSmar said:


> It takes a days or so for the Tried and True Linseed oil to dry enough (from second or more coats) to where you can start using it, it’s become my favourite finish.



Have you ever tried Tru-Oil?


----------



## StevSmar (Oct 24, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Have you ever tried Tru-Oil?


No, I’ve just used the Tried and Tru so that when my wife complains about the stink I can point to the can and say “it’s food safe, and we could put it on our salads”.


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## David_R8 (Nov 12, 2022)

Picked up a completely nondescript maple blank yesterday. There was magic inside.


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## DPittman (Nov 12, 2022)

Beautiful.  I need a hat like that.


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## curmudgeon (Nov 12, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> Picked up a completely nondescript maple blank yesterday. There was magic inside.


very nice - what finish did you apply?


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## David_R8 (Nov 12, 2022)

curmudgeon said:


> very nice - what finish did you apply?


It’s one coat of a product called Tried and True. Polymerized linseed oil and beeswax. Completely food safe and it feels like velvet on the wood.


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## David_R8 (Nov 12, 2022)

DPittman said:


> Beautiful.  I need a hat like that.


There is actually a fellow who turns hats. Amazing things really.


----------



## David_R8 (Nov 20, 2022)

I'm installing a new dust collection system. I bought a two-motor (2000watts total) CamVac unit from Stockroom Supply in ON.
These units are low volume, high pressure which is the exact opposite of a traditional collector which is high volume, low pressure.
Basically this means that smaller duct work can be run without a loss in flow. They are designed to run 4" duct work vs. a high volume unit which are basically choked off if run on small duct work. 
The static pressure is rather staggering. I accidentally dropped the end of the 4" flex hose on the shop floor and the unit instantly collapsed the hose and came flying across the floor. 
When I connected it to my cyclone and restricted the airflow it started to collapse the metal trash can I use as a collection bin.

This is yesterday when I just mounted them for layout purposes.


----------



## David_R8 (Nov 21, 2022)

I'm running 4" PVC DWV for my dust collection.
Apparently there is a North America wide shortage of PVC pipe because of last year’s storms in Texas.
I'm super lucky that my niece works at Bartle and Gibsons and managed to wrangle me two sticks or I'd be stuck.


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## LenVW (Nov 21, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> I'm running 4" PVC DWV for my dust collection.
> Apparently there is a North America wide shortage of PVC pipe because of last year’s storms in Texas.
> I'm super lucky that my niece works at Bartle and Gibsons and managed to wangle me two sticks or I'd be stuck.


You are making me search for High School records of my wood shop course. We made sets of salad bowls by turning glued strips of Ash, Mahogany and Oak (I think).
Looks good David !!


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## David_R8 (Nov 22, 2022)

Managed to get 90% of the ducting completed.
2-1/2 port for overhead collection off the Unisaw
The flex at the end will lead to a 6' length running to my drill press and provide a port for the hose from my tracksaw and router.




Crosses over the ceiling to a drop for my planer and for a dust shroud at my lathe. At the far end is another 2-1/2" port for my mitre saw and bandsaw.
With both motors running the collection off the mitre saw is excellent. I also tried the planer and hogged of 1/8" off a 6" wide board and it carried everything away no problem.
I'm very pleased with the performance.
(I just realized that I have the wye in the picture below upside down! Blast!)


----------



## LenVW (Nov 23, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> Managed to get 90% of the ducting completed.
> 2-1/2 port for overhead collection off the Unisaw
> The flex at the end will lead to a 6' length running to my drill press and provide a port for the hose from my tracksaw and router.
> View attachment 28205
> ...


If it works, leave it.
Sure beats getting wood dust all over everything !!


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## David_R8 (Nov 23, 2022)

LenVW said:


> If it works, leave it.
> Sure beats getting wood dust all over everything !!


Too late, I flipped it around this morning before heading to Yotabota's to make a part for my bandsaw. flipping it did make a difference to the airflow so a good move.





I put a 6" riser kit on my Delta bandsaw so I could cut bowl blanks and resaw lumber. But the blade support rod in the riser kit was only 3/4" whereas the Delta rod is near 1". My lathe doesn't have a big enough spindle bore so @YotaBota kindly offered to make it. Thanks Mike!
Mike's SM 1120 lathe is a thing of beauty. Clean, clean, clean. Least it was when I arrived. After we were done not so much...


----------



## YotaBota (Nov 23, 2022)

We also found out Mike's SM1120 needs a better live center, even using the follow rest the cut wasn't good at the tail end.
Otherwise it was a good afternoon of machining and B.S.ing.
Your welcome, anytime my friend.


----------



## curmudgeon (Nov 24, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> I put a 6" riser kit on my Delta bandsaw so I could cut bowl blanks and resaw lumber. But the blade support rod in the riser kit was only 3/4" whereas the Delta rod is near 1".
> 
> View attachment 28228


David, I have a similar bandsaw; a Delta clone by King (model WA1403-C).  The previous owner installed a DIY riser block, and I made a cover for the blade on the frame side.  I'm still using the original guide post designed for the 6" throat, and it's rarely an issue because I'm often working with stock thicker than 6".  Now that I have a metal lathe I can make it safer for thinner stock...  

Did you upgrade the blade guides and bearings?  Upper and lower?


----------



## BMW Rider (Nov 24, 2022)

I had to do the same for my 14" Delta saw to use the currently available riser kits. Did you relocate the alignment pins in the riser? I chose to eliminate them and just bolted it down lining up the wheels with a straight edge. It hasn't been an issue thus far.


----------



## David_R8 (Nov 24, 2022)

curmudgeon said:


> David, I have a similar bandsaw; a Delta clone by King (model WA1403-C).  The previous owner installed a DIY riser block, and I made a cover for the blade on the frame side.  I'm still using the original guide post designed for the 6" throat, and it's rarely an issue because I'm often working with stock thicker than 6".  Now that I have a metal lathe I can make it safer for thinner stock...
> 
> Did you upgrade the blade guides and bearings?  Upper and lower?


Ironically the riser kit I bought is for the saw you own 
I have the guard but it's pretty cheesy. 
I bought the saw at BC Auction. It's a Delta Platinum Edition which came with the Carter roller guides. They are work well for dry wood but get gummed up when cutting green wood.



BMW Rider said:


> I had to do the same for my 14" Delta saw to use the currently available riser kits. Did you relocate the alignment pins in the riser? I chose to eliminate them and just bolted it down lining up the wheels with a straight edge. It hasn't been an issue thus far.


I pulled the pins from the bottom but had to grind the top ones off. I did the same thing as you and so far it's been fine. 
The new post thing solves a really annoying problem which was that as I raised the guides they moved away from the blade. If I went from a 4" height to 10" I'd have to adjust the guides and vice versa.


----------



## David_R8 (Nov 28, 2022)

Alrighty, final installment on the CamVac saga.
After watching Dennis from Hooked on Wood build a baffle box for his CamVac I decided to do the same. I bought some 2" thick acoustic foam tiles and built a box from 1/2" ply to fit in the rafter bay above the CamVac. 19" wide, 22" long and 6" tall inside. Drilled two holes for the 2-1/2" hoses and one 5" outlet.
Got it mounted and connected the hoses.
Some levels:
As delivered and installed with the baffles: 83.9 db with a distinct whine
With just the hoses: 75.9 db with less whine
With the baffle box: 72.3 db with no whine
Very pleased.


----------



## jcdammeyer (Nov 28, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> Alrighty, final installment on the CamVac saga.
> After watching Dennis from Hooked on Wood build a baffle box for his CamVac I decided to do the same. I bought some 2" acoustic foam tiles and built a box from 1/2" ply to fit in the rafter bay above the CamVac. 19" wide, 22" long and 6" tall inside. Drilled two holes for the 2-1/2" hoses and one 5" outlet.
> Got it mounted and connected the hoses.
> Some levels:
> ...


Pictures?


----------



## David_R8 (Nov 28, 2022)

jcdammeyer said:


> Pictures?


I'll shoot some tomorroow.


----------



## David_R8 (Dec 19, 2022)

Well I had my first turning injury yesterday.
I was getting set to sharpen my bowl gouge and I tucked it under my arm to slide the Vari-jig on. It slipped out and landed sharp end down on my leather shoe, slicing clear through the leather leaving a clean U-shaped hole and making a wicked gash on first metatarsal of my right foot.
Four hours in the ER and six stitches later.
Be careful out there folks!


----------



## DPittman (Dec 19, 2022)

Eeeegads  man!  Sorry to hear that, I hope you mend speedily and fully.  Thanks for the reminder to be careful, it's so easy to have wrecks.


----------



## thestelster (Dec 19, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> Well I had my first turning injury yesterday.
> I was getting set to sharpen my bowl gouge and I tucked it under my arm to slide the Vari-jig on. It slipped out and landed sharp end down on my leather shoe, slicing clear through the leather leaving a clean U-shaped hole and making a wicked gash on first metatarsal of my right foot.
> Four hours in the ER and six stitches later.
> Be careful out there folks!


That's a sharp edge!!  And you were going to make it sharper?!!


----------



## David_R8 (Dec 19, 2022)

thestelster said:


> That's a sharp edge!!  And you were going to make it sharper?!!


Yup... that was my plan... 
It's a heavy tool, about 12" of 5/8" HSS with a wooden handle. And the Vari-jig is maybe another pound of steel.


----------



## David_R8 (Dec 19, 2022)

DPittman said:


> Eeeegads  man!  Sorry to hear that, I hope you mend speedily and fully.  Thanks for the reminder to be careful, it's so easy to have wrecks.


Happened in an instant and I almost got my foot out of the way


----------



## Brent H (Dec 19, 2022)

Ouch!!!  Hope things heal up quick!!!


----------



## YotaBota (Dec 19, 2022)

Hopefully no permanent damage. 
Do you have a plan to prevent this from happening again? Maybe some kind of strap so it won't fall that far if it slips again.

Dad- did it smart?
Me -  Yes
Dad - did it smarten?
Me - TBD,


----------



## David_R8 (Dec 19, 2022)

Brent H said:


> Ouch!!!  Hope things heal up quick!!!


Thanks Brent, me too, I have a metric tonne of projects I want to move along!


----------



## David_R8 (Dec 19, 2022)

YotaBota said:


> Hopefully no permanent damage.
> Do you have a plan to prevent this from happening again? Maybe some kind of strap so it won't fall that far if it slips again.
> 
> Dad- did it smart?
> ...


First learning is to not hold it as I did... Doh!


----------



## Degen (Dec 19, 2022)

@David_R8 soccer playing reactions are not good with with sharp falling objects. 

Hope you added some ground wire in your collection system.  Very important.  High velocity dust build static in PVC ducting very quickly.  At some point it discharges, in some case arc's.  Depending on where becomes the issue.

Dust explosions are bad, very very bad.

As a simple denonstration take a soda straw filled 1/4 full with dust and over an open flame outside blow it over the flame ( works better if its dark outside, it will scare the c$&p out of you). It will demonstrate how big dust explosions can be and  as a why you want good grounding.  Remember all you are using is a teaspoon of dust.  Word of warning don't inhale.


----------



## curmudgeon (Dec 19, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> Happened in an instant and I almost got my foot out of the way


Good gouges are expensive; I thought you intended to sacrifice your boot to prevent the edge hitting the floor; good save!

Thanks for sharing; hope your foot recovers cleanly and quickly.


----------



## whydontu (Dec 19, 2022)

No steel toed boots? First rule of metal shops (loosely applies to wood shops): everything you touch will be some combination of heavy, hot, or sharp


----------



## TorontoBuilder (Dec 19, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> Well I had my first turning injury yesterday.
> I was getting set to sharpen my bowl gouge and I tucked it under my arm to slide the Vari-jig on. It slipped out and landed sharp end down on my leather shoe, slicing clear through the leather leaving a clean U-shaped hole and making a wicked gash on first metatarsal of my right foot.
> Four hours in the ER and six stitches later.
> Be careful out there folks!


wow... something I never worried about before but will think of all the time when I sharpen lathe tools now.

Good thing it was not an old 48" stuart batty handle with the taper lock system and a big bowl gouge or you may have lost your big toe... then forever be falling over on your face.


----------



## historicalarms (Dec 20, 2022)

Degen said:


> @David_R8 soccer playing reactions are not good with with sharp falling objects.
> 
> Hope you added some ground wire in your collection system.  Very important.  High velocity dust build static in PVC ducting very quickly.  At some point it discharges, in some case arc's.  Depending on where becomes the issue.
> 
> ...


  Good post D, I've seen complete grain elevators and feed mills turn into bombs over static spark, natural gas explosion dont hold a candle to a dust detonation.


----------



## David_R8 (Dec 20, 2022)

TorontoBuilder said:


> wow... something I never worried about before but will think of all the time when I sharpen lathe tools now.
> 
> Good thing it was not an old 48" stuart batty handle with the taper lock system and a big bowl gouge or you may have lost your big toe... then forever be falling over on your face.


It did have my vari-grind jig on it which added a few ounces. I was actually kinda shocked that it went clean through a leather shoe.


----------



## RobinHood (Dec 20, 2022)

Imagine if you had already sharpened the gouge…. no telling how far into your foot it would have gone then…

Be safe out there folks - danger is lurking everywhere and strikes when you least expect it.


----------



## David_R8 (Dec 20, 2022)

RobinHood said:


> Imagine if you had already sharpened the gouge…. no telling how far into your foot it would have gone then…
> 
> Be safe out there folks - danger is lurking everywhere and strikes when you least expect it.


Indeed... 180grit CBN wheels leaves a darn sharp edge.


----------



## TorontoBuilder (Dec 20, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> It did have my vari-grind jig on it which added a few ounces. I was actually kinda shocked that it went clean through a leather shoe.


I am too... 

I have a 12" stuart batty handle that has 2.5 lbs of shot to dampen vibrations. I had plans to make several more now that his tools are defunct, but maybe I'll skip the addition of the shot


----------



## Susquatch (Dec 20, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> Well I had my first turning injury yesterday.
> I was getting set to sharpen my bowl gouge and I tucked it under my arm to slide the Vari-jig on. It slipped out and landed sharp end down on my leather shoe, slicing clear through the leather leaving a clean U-shaped hole and making a wicked gash on first metatarsal of my right foot.
> Four hours in the ER and six stitches later.
> Be careful out there folks!



Feet are terrible targets...

About 20 years ago, I was deer hunting on Manitoulin Island. One night had no moon and was pitch black. Perfect for looking at the stars. There is no light pollution to speak of on the island. I grabbed my binoculars and drove out by myself to the West end where the rock flats stretch out into the lake for a mile. You can see the stars from horizon to horizon. On the walk out onto the flats I crossed a rock bridge over a crevass. It broke and I fell into the crack and the broken rock fell in with me pinning my leg and foot. I was there for hours with no way to call for help and nobody even knowing where I was. Stupid stupid stupid.

I figured I might have to cut my foot off. I even spent some time planning how to do it. But that would be a last resort.

After I got my witts together, I managed to further break one of the rock pieces to make a lever, and after many attempts I got my foot free. As soon as I got it out it started throbbing and bleeding like crazy. My boot turned bright red. 

I hobbled back to the truck and then drove back to the cabin using only my left foot. One of the other guys took me to the nearest hospital in Mindemoya.

The bones in my middle toe were smashed. The Doc said she could amputate it or try to fix it. She advocated the latter saying "what do you have to lose for trying?" I agreed. She sewed it up, stretched it out, smooshed it together with her fingers like a collet, pushed it back into place, and made a foot & toe cast. Then she told me to head to emergency again at the slightest sign of an infection. When I got home, I saw a bone surgeon. He looked at the x-rays and said there was no hope for it and it would be best if he amputated it. But since it wasn't infected, he also said there was no rush. A month later I was walking on it, and today my right foot is just a bit longer than it was. My toe even bends a bit.

What did I learn?  Never go far from civilization without telling someone where you went and don't be in a rush to cut off any body parts earlier than needed. 

Everyone should live long enough to watch a big hairy toe get colletized.......


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## David_R8 (Dec 20, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Feet are terrible targets...
> 
> About 20 years ago, I was deer hunting on Manitoulin Island. One night had no moon and was pitch black. Perfect for looking at the stars. There is no light pollution to speak of on the island. I grabbed my binoculars and drove out by myself to the West end where the rock flats stretch out into the lake for a mile. You can see the stars from horizon to horizon. On the walk out onto the flats I crossed a rock bridge over a crevass. It broke and I fell into the crack and the broken rock fell in with me pinning my leg and foot. I was there for hours with no way to call for help and nobody even knowing where I was. Stupid stupid stupid.
> 
> ...


Jeepers, that sounds truly terrifying. 
Wasn't there a movie like that? Some dude stuck in a canyon. Eventually sawed of some body part to get free.


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## curmudgeon (Dec 20, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> Wasn't there a movie like that? Some dude stuck in a canyon. Eventually sawed of some body part to get free.











						Aron Ralston - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


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## curmudgeon (Dec 20, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> don't be in a rush to cut off any body parts earlier than needed.


Wow!  Another life lesson I'm glad to learn by observation instead of first hand experience.


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## Susquatch (Dec 20, 2022)

curmudgeon said:


> Aron Ralston - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Quite the story. Guy is almost as stupid as I was. What the heck was he thinking out there alone with nobody knowing where you are...... 

15 years ago or so I bought a Find Me Spot which is a Satelite radio based location service that you can use to get help no matter where you are. A very useful thing for those who like to wander around in the great outdoors alone. 

I've never needed to use it again, but I carry it with me even when I have cell coverage. it was a scary event I never want to repeat. 









						SPOT Satellite Communication Devices | Saved by SPOT | CA
					

SPOT sells affordable satellite safety devices, delivering reliable location-based tracking, messaging and lifesaving S.O.S. technology. SPOT products monitor your location, connecting to emergency responders while out of cellular range.




					www.findmespot.com
				




I wonder if they have something you can use to detect a falling wood gouge before it hits....


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## David_R8 (Sunday at 2:47 PM)

Well the laser arrived last week and so today I built the enclosure. I just need some orange acrylic for the window.
It's 26" wide by 24" deep with a lid that's double-hinged; one at the back and at the halfway point.
Next I need to drill the vent in the back for the exhaust fan.


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## Janger (Sunday at 3:31 PM)

I’m getting excited to see some cutting and engraving.


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## David_R8 (Sunday at 3:46 PM)

Janger said:


> I’m getting excited to see some cutting and engraving.


Me too!
The exhaust port and blower are in now. 
Waiting on the charcoal canister filter which should be here tomorrow. Honeycomb bed arrives Wednesday. Then to make some boxes!


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## David_R8 (Sunday at 4:11 PM)

Ok I whipped this up.
50% power @ 50 mm/sec


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## Dabbler (Sunday at 7:39 PM)

This looks great!   Nice enclosure - sure is sturdy enough!


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## David_R8 (Sunday at 8:22 PM)

Dabbler said:


> This looks great!   Nice enclosure - sure is sturdy enough!


Thanks John, 3/4" base. 5/8" sides and top. My wife said it looked like a box a magician would use to cut someone in half!


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## jcdammeyer (Sunday at 9:36 PM)

David_R8 said:


> Thanks John, 3/4" base. 5/8" sides and top. My wife said it looked like a box a magician would use to cut someone in half!


Well there is a laser in it...


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## BMW Rider (Monday at 8:27 AM)

Did you ask for a volunteer from the audience?


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## David_R8 (Monday at 8:55 AM)

BMW Rider said:


> Did you ask for a volunteer from the audience?


I did and there were no takers...


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## TorontoBuilder (Tuesday at 11:04 AM)

David_R8 said:


> I did and there were no takers...


Have you done any cut tests yet? 

I am seriously considering getting one now for a marquetry project.


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## David_R8 (Tuesday at 2:02 PM)

TorontoBuilder said:


> Have you done any cut tests yet?
> 
> I am seriously considering getting one now for a marquetry project.


Not yet, but I plan to this evening as I my air filter should arrive today.


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## David_R8 (Tuesday at 4:33 PM)

Well blast. 
My carbon filter arrived and I did a quick test cut to see if it would remove the smoke from the laser and it did not. So I'm going to put a hole through the wall for a direct vent outside.


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## Degen (Yesterday at 9:36 PM)

I do have a Weller filter unit that would do it for you but in all seriousness you wouldn't want to pay the price.  I got it as a trade upgrade and even then I paid an arm and leg.  The filters alone are stupid expensive.


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## David_R8 (Yesterday at 10:49 PM)

Degen said:


> I do have a Weller filter unit that would do it for you but in all seriousness you wouldn't want to pay the price.  I got it as a trade upgrade and even then I paid an arm and leg.  The filters alone are stupid expensive.


Five minutes with a hole saw and I'm back in business venting to the great outdoors!


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## David_R8 (Yesterday at 10:52 PM)

First engraving off the laser.
This is a 1700's era printing ornament used on book printing. My dear wife teaches book history (among other subjects) at university and this is one of her favourite ornaments.


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## PeterT (Yesterday at 11:02 PM)

And your neighbor hasn't called 911 with a suspicious smoky odor - you're in laser business!

(Bit of an inside joke with me. My buddy used to spray his models with a makeshift vent booth. A bank of cheapo furnace filters in front of a fan sucking through a dryer hose, venting out a hole in his garage. His fence was an interesting blend of permanent fluorescent colors. His neighbor's house... did not come up in discussion LOL)


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## LenVW (Today at 5:07 AM)

PeterT said:


> And your neighbor hasn't called 911 with a suspicious smoky odor - you're in laser business!
> 
> (Bit of an inside joke with me. My buddy used to spray his models with a makeshift vent booth. A bank of cheapo furnace filters in front of a fan sucking through a dryer hose, venting out a hole in his garage. His fence was an interesting blend of permanent fluorescent colors. His neighbor's house... did not come up in discussion LOL)


Sometimes you can be surprised by your artistic side !!
I believe they call it ‘impressionism’.   LOL


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## PeterT (Today at 12:52 PM)

My buddy bought a smallish hobby laser with the intent of cutting modest RC parts from balsa & thin ply. It wasn't even done a small test job when the smoke detectors were going off. Shortly thereafter, SWMBO was going off. So he is similarly working on some kind of capture box & vent arrangement. Its been a while since I was wandering around a commercial laser shop but guessing them must have some high volume hoods like welders shops?


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## PeterT (Today at 12:59 PM)

PeterT said:


> .. furnace filters in front of a fan sucking through a dryer hose


Actually what troubled me more was the cheapo Walmart fan. Guessing that was not the explosion proof motor model LOL. Now you have all that fine mist volatile hydrocarbon overspray & flammable particulate matter flowing over the windings & brushes. Just one little spark and....


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