# Estevan Model Engineering Show



## Dabbler (Oct 16, 2022)

@johnnielsen and I went out to Estevan, Sask for North America's oldest Model Engineering Show.  It has been held since the 80s.

There were about 50 booths, and everyone was very friendly.   An overview of the proceedings:






 Here are a few highlights that caught my fancy:

For @PeterT a radial engine, but with a twist:  Peter ( got his contact details if you are interested)







it featured 3 non-compression engines, 2 of which were working for the show:











A large number of multi-cylinder engines, but this one really impressed me:







I had to include at least one hit-and-miss engine:






We had a great day and good weather for driving.  Well worth the effort.


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## phaxtris (Oct 16, 2022)

I didn't even know we had such shows in Canada, cool

That's quite the long haul, i take it you guys stayed over night ?


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## garageguy (Oct 16, 2022)

rats! I would have been there but lost track of the date. It would have been nice to meet you guys in person and say thanks for the help you've given to me on this board. I only live 20 mi. down the road and usually attend this show. Glad you enjoyed it!


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## DPittman (Oct 16, 2022)

Damn I have been wanting to go to that for years.  It was canceled during covid at least once and then another year I couldn't fit it in and then I totally forgot about it this year. 

Thanks for the report and pictures.

Maybe I'll  get to it next year if the good Lord is willing.


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## Dabbler (Oct 16, 2022)

To keep in touch,  here's all the contact info:

organizer:  
Kelly Tylandsvik
emes@sakstel.net
306-461-5808
821 Phillips Place
Estevan SK
S4A 2G9

Show site:
www.estevanmodelengineeringshow.net


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## PeterT (Oct 16, 2022)

_For @PeterT a radial engine, but with a twist: Peter ( got his contact details if you are interested)_

Thanks for picture. Small correction, that's a rotary (cylinders & crankshaft spin together as one vs radial cylinders are stationary). 
Rotaries boggle my mind. Nonetheless, impressive looking. I heard there was someone on Edmonton working on one. I'll have to follow up on that.
Glad you guys had a good road trip. Hopefully something heavy followed you home LOL.


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## Darren (Oct 16, 2022)

How does the rotary handle exhaust? Through the ports on top of the heads? I assume the intake charge is throught the crankcase like most 2 strokes? I've seen them before but never really gave them much thought. Pretty wild.


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## phaxtris (Oct 16, 2022)

Darren said:


> How does the rotary handle exhaust? Throught the ports on top of the heads? I assume the intake charge is throught the crankcase like most 2 strokes? I've seen them before but never really gave them much thought. Pretty wild.



straight out the head

what i dont understand is how the heck they came up with that before radial engines, i dont understand how its easier to have the whole engine spin vs just the crankshaft


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## combustable herbage (Oct 16, 2022)

Looks like a great show glad you got out, I grew up about an hour north of Estevan lived right on hwy 47 that heads into it.


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## PeterT (Oct 16, 2022)

Some basic rotary info. I've seen some videos of post restoration flights & they support most of what you read about them - huge gyroscopic affect, castor oil shower for the pilot, challenging blippety-blip throttle control.... The ignition system is another mind boggling thing especially considering the era.








						Rotary engine - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




nice cad assembly model


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## PeterT (Oct 16, 2022)

There aren't too many running models of rotary's but this is one


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## Hruul (Oct 16, 2022)

I went back before covid and was quite impressed, I forgot all about it this year.  I have heard that Saturday is way busier (more presenter's) than Sunday.  Through Kelly and his group is how I found my lathe.  Great group.


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## garageguy (Oct 17, 2022)

Hard to imagine what advantages ( advantage? ) they saw in spinning the whole engine as opposed to just the crank. Maybe some engineer type saw it as a challenge. Maybe it would cool better?


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## DPittman (Oct 17, 2022)

I don't know about your other explanations of why the engineer designed it that way but it is definitely COOLER that way.


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## Tom O (Oct 17, 2022)

Maybe they changed it so the machine guns didn’t shoot the motor off just the prop 
before they got the firing timing downpacked.
Evolution at its finest.


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## trlvn (Oct 18, 2022)

@Dabbler Were there any kit suppliers or other interesting vendors at the show?  I had a look at the show web site but they didn't have an exhibitor list.

Craig


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## Susquatch (Oct 18, 2022)

garageguy said:


> Hard to imagine what advantages ( advantage? ) they saw in spinning the whole engine as opposed to just the crank. Maybe some engineer type saw it as a challenge. Maybe it would cool better?



I'm just speculating here from the perspective of someone who worked on engine design teams for a portion of my career. 

The primary application of the rotary engine at the time was aviation. Weight was a huge issue especially for early aircraft. In rotary engines, the engine itself was the flywheel and the block was very small and simple. The cooling system would be trivial. This meant a very high power to weight ratio - ideal for aircraft. 

According to the wiki article that @PeterT referenced above, the main disadvantage was the air resistance that an exposed whirling engine created. A thought I had was to get rid of the attached frontal prop and make the whole engine a prop so air resistance became an advantage. 

Anyway, it's virtually a certainty that a high power to weight ratio was the reason they did it. But yes, I think the inherent cooling system simplicity was another driver. 

As far as I can tell, oil spray wasn't a big issue. It seems like most of them used an oil fuel mix like the old two stroke outboard engines so the oil got burned by combustion. 

I think the whole thing is absolutely COOL! I'd never heard of it before you characters posted about it.


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## Tom O (Oct 18, 2022)

The way I heard it because they used castor oil all the pilots had the trots And the silk scarf was to reduce swivel neck (chaffing on the neck).


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## PeterT (Oct 18, 2022)

Like most recollections of the past, the real reasons might be true, false or somewhere in between. I cant find the video I'm looking for, but it was one of the restoration museums like Shuttleworth or Rhineback & they showed the classic castor smear on cowl & goggles once landed. And those planes are cared for. I'm sure some planes/engines were worse than others. Whether it was enough to cause the castor laxative sh*ts (as opposed to OMG I'm being shot at sh*ts) thats another matter. Interestingly some water cooled inline engines were developed around the same time & early radials were having teething pains. Its always an arms race of power, drag, fuel consumption, weight, reliability... The fittest survive only until the next thing takes its place. A lot of what you see in military engines had as much to do with what they didn't have in abundant or reliable quantities - specific alloys, fuels, production methods.... I'm still amazed at how nice the castings look & what they were able to machine back in the day. Mind you, they were near the pinnacle of tech & ingenuity, much like what a modern fighter is today.





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						Rotary Engine Theory - 100 hp Gnome Monosoupape
					





					www.aviation-history.com
				








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						Those magnificent flying machines
					

The assassination on June 28, 1914, of Archduke Franz Ferdinand, heir to the Austro-Hungarian throne, triggered a series of events that led inexorably to the outbreak of war in Europe a month later. The Great War began less than 11 years after the Wright brothers’ first flight.



					www.aopa.org


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## PeterT (Oct 18, 2022)

While on this aviation tangent, I just finished this (audible version) book. I knew a bit of the story, but not to the depth the book gets into. I won't spoil it it reads somewhere between a celebration of determined human genius & a Greek tragedy of how much sh*t & abuse one man had to endure within his own country. Who knows all the factors that came into play, particularly during times of conflict. But its an interesting slice of time in terms of turbine development.





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						Jet Man: The Making and Breaking of Frank Whittle, Genius of the Jet Revolution: Campbell-Smith, Duncan: 9781788544696: Books - Amazon.ca
					

Jet Man: The Making and Breaking of Frank Whittle, Genius of the Jet Revolution: Campbell-Smith, Duncan: 9781788544696: Books - Amazon.ca



					www.amazon.ca


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## Hacker (Oct 19, 2022)

Thanks for the suggestion, it looks like a good read.


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## PeterT (Oct 19, 2022)

Kermit doesn't look to greasy after the flight but you can see the castor slime on wing & landing gear when he lands.
The rotary blip-blip ignition throttle is just crazy.


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## PeterT (Oct 19, 2022)

Harder to tell on the Nieuport from a distance other than startup & shut down. Maybe they had emission controls on that one LOL


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## Susquatch (Oct 20, 2022)

@PeterT - Why Castor Oil? Why not a mix that would be burned instead?

Not developed yet?

I watched the cad assembly video you provided. Very cool! And also very sophisticated for the time. Watching the video answered a million questions about how it all works too. 

Just a few questions left. How did they do the ignition and particularly the timing? How was fuel delivered and metered? How did the throttle system work? And as above, why Castor Oil?


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## PeterT (Oct 20, 2022)

I actually know very little about rotary engines. I have some aviation engine books but information on why & how they did things is actually quite sparse. They are not well documented & vary between models & manufacturers. I have LK Blackmore's (building the the quarter scale working replica) Bentley BR2. It has some FS pics & sketches interspersed but more for visual reference, again quite brief. Apparently the drawings have some boo-boos & omissions, I've never felt brave enough to build it. It has knackered better model engineers than me.

There is some documentation out there above the typical forum chit chat, but I suspect the real dope is locked away in museums & the craniums of those who maintain them.




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						WO Bentley Rotary Aero Engines
					

Pre-Order and Advance Information for Rotary Engines Book




					wobentleyrotary.com
				




There is a Clerget in Calgary which I have from authority was discovered brand new in a barn amongst the chicken dung. Apparently some found their way to farms as war surplus. Thankfully it never saw that service. That engine was one of the critical bits that made the Sopwith Triplane project proceed back in the 70's. I have some familiarity with that airframe, did some volunteer construction work in my teens. Its a work of art faithfully reproduced to factory drawings. But it will never fly. Maybe better that way. 




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						SOPWITH TRIPLANE | The Hangar Flight Museum
					






					thehangarmuseum.ca


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