# Admirable Nelson (Standard Modern Utilathe 10 LD)



## Cryoine (Aug 31, 2022)

*Meeting Admirable Nelson*

Earlier this year I got a call from a friend that a machine shop was going out of business and they have some equipment for sale. I went there honestly with no expectations of finding anything since most shops have machines that are larger than what a home user needs.

But I was wrong, there right at the end of a Harrison M550(beast of a machine) lathe was a Standard Modern 10 inch Utilathe that would soon become mine. I paid $30k JDM which is about $300CAD (I know my currency is monopoly money at this point) for. It then spent the next few months waiting for me to move it.





the utilathe in all is grimy glory, believe me somewhere under there is a lathe
not the best video but it works to show the grunge, people here don't seem to care much about machine tools.





*Almost Lost Nelson(Lathe) *

Moving the machine was one adventure after the other, first the lathe was separated off the table and a 3 ton crane used to lift it, I followed the instructions on lifting as outlined in the manual and nearly damaged the lathe, because it was separate from the table it was now extremely head stock heavy and this was not accounted for during the lift, well it was but was underestimated as the carriage was moved all the way to the other end of the bed. It started to swing in the crane towards the headstock and then the carriage which was not locked started to move towards the headstock adding more weight to a problem its almost as if old U 613 wanted to sink before we even started. If the machine fell out of the crane I suspect the damage to it would have killed it since its a lot of cast iron that makes it up. Fortunately it was a simple lift and place operation and somehow we got the machine on the hand truck with all that was going on. The weight of this machine will not be underestimated again.

We eventually man handled lathe to an awaiting pickup then man handled it up into the bed then went back for the table which we found was concreted in place (oh joy). Some gentle persuasion with the persuader more commonly known as the sledge hammer made short work of that problem. Ah the humble hammer, truly a tool of an artist.

We then moved the machine to the room that it is currently at where I decided that I may as well dismantle it to see if I could get it cleaned up and that led me to tearing it apart almost completely for cleaning and repairs

*Actually Lost Nelson(Dog)*

I received a Belgian shepherd Groenendael to care for for the final years of his life and lost him recently which is why I decided to name the lathe nelson in his loving memory.

*Things that aren't working currently*
3 Jaw Chuck ( jaws mismatched and seized somehow)
Half nut doesn't want to engage (ok so I goofed and did not know about the lockout, don't judge me)
quick change gearbox selector doesn't want to move
Busted Cross feed nut
Tailstock clamp missing (to clamp to the bed)
Bull Gear Tooth Chipped

Some of the other stuff that I should be getting from the machine shop once i find somewhere to put them, but I like these problems having machine tools and no where to put them :3

two Meddings Drill presses(both bench top one with a table and one with out, they clock in at about 275 and 265lbs
Surface Grinder
Southbend Lathe
2 Myford Lathe (7s I believe)
grinder
hydraulic press
and a bunch of nick nacks for the machine tools ill know when i get them

all this stuff needs to be repaired in the long run though


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## Susquatch (Sep 1, 2022)

Lotta work! Go @Cryoine Go!


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## YotaBota (Sep 1, 2022)

There's a lot of experience with the different machines here, you'll be in good hands.
A Myford with gear box is another good find, you have enough equipment to keep you busy for a while.


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## Tecnico (Sep 1, 2022)

Congrats, you've scooped up a lifetime of "barn find" projects there!  Where to start???

Not sure how up on Myfords you are but it looks like you have a couple of ML7s in your collection.  As @YotaBota notes, one with a QC gear box is a nice bonus.  Both are similar to the one in this thread:  Lathe Auction Thread and if I'm not mistaken the ML7 does not have a powered cross feed which came with the Super 7 upgrades.

Do your drill presses have Whitworth or "regular" Imperial fasteners?  I got introduced to that fun with my Super 7.

D


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## Cryoine (Sep 1, 2022)

Tecnico said:


> Congrats, you've scooped up a lifetime of "barn find" projects there!  Where to start???
> 
> Not sure how up on Myfords you are but it looks like you have a couple of ML7s in your collection.  As @YotaBota notes, one with a QC gear box is a nice bonus.  Both are similar to the one in this thread:  Lathe Auction Thread and if I'm not mistaken the ML7 does not have a powered cross feed which came with the Super 7 upgrades.
> 
> ...


I was looking into them a while the Myfords and yeah I think they are ML7s but not sure specifically which ones, one was dropped and the gearbox broke off of the machine sadly(if you look at the last picture you notice that the cover is lean on the machine) but they say they are going to try to repair it. I'll do some more digging on it later


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## Cryoine (Sep 1, 2022)

The teardown complete

I spent a few weeks on and off the machine learning how to take it apart, first was the easy stuff. Took off the feed gear that was missing a share pin, after this moment i was unstoppable, pulling the board off the headstock (which I will be keeping on, never liked it originally but it grew on me).

Now *EMBOLDENED *I set my sights on the rest of the machine tearing it apart, got stuck found this forum pulled a bit more then got stuck again, read a little more and pulled it apart completely
The quick change gearbox was dirty that was cleaned and oiled and it functions better than before. still has a binding to it, I suspect that either it needs a good oiling or a shaft may be bent. fingers crossed.








living on an island does have its ups and down and shipping things here isn't one of those ups the chuck wasn't happen all the jaws never wanted to move and upon inspection all the jaws are in the wrong place


I had the motor sent to be refreshed professionally. got new windings, insulation, shaft machined again and new bearings also got a VDF to go with it. This colour isn't working for me though, the guy repainted it without asking me a nice gesture in the grand scheme of things but I'm feeling a nice 'record' blue for this











*Things that aren't working currently*
3 Jaw Chuck ( jaws mismatched and seized somehow)
Half nut doesn't want to engage (ok so I goofed and did not know about the lockout, don't judge me)
quick change gearbox selector doesn't want to move  *sorted*
Busted Cross feed nut
Tailstock clamp missing (to clamp to the bed)
Bull Gear Tooth Chipped
Motor is Dead *Fixed*


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## Cryoine (Sep 1, 2022)

*Le Chuck*
Now on to the chuck, the 3 Jaw that I got with this machine has seen better days. Its jaws were all stuck and one of the cam lock pins is bent. Never a dull moment with old machine tools, I guess that's why we love em.

*The problem*

All 3 jaws are in the wrong slots and somehow by some miracle they actually meet near centre...they probably forced them to do so and that's probably why the whole thing locked up. I told the guy I bought the lathe from about this and he gave me two other chucks that are also damaged(what are these people machining with, hammers?) but this will be important later. I pulled the whole chuck apart and prepared the grease in my elbows and some degreaser for some good old fashion scrubbing











*A worthy foe*

An allen key lost its life in service on admirable nelson








I then bought an Allen socket and that combined with my Ryobi impact driver made short work of the rest of the screws, that hammering action from the impact driver made it invaluable for releasing the bolts/screws/nuts with very little effort on my part. If memory serves correct that is a 7/32 Allen 

*Secrets to the universe*

When I removed the screws there are two additional threaded holes on the left and right in the picture with the allen key that are used for jacking bolts to push the chuck off the back plate, I used M5 and got lucky because there was enough grunge for them to bite into a do the job this is not an M5 job. How I actually got the chuck apart though, since the jaws are stuck I could not use the conventional method which was to remove the jaws first then tap the spiral gear out next, after removing the spider gears that the chuck key turns. I had to remove those first, the spider gears, then turn the chuck on its back and hit the face of it with a block of wood to disengage the spiral gear from the jaws, then tap the jaws out with another block of wood, this was much better than the atrocities I was planning to commit which was the over power the whole thing using the chuck key to open the jaws.  

Inside the chuck I discovered the horrible secrets to the universe, grungy sticky mechanical parts don't like to slide on each other...wait what do you mean this is common knowledge







those black things that you see near the chuck that looks like an o ring is 3D printer filament where I work( just incase you wanted to know)










it also seems that one of the jaws teeth broke off and wedged itself into the chuck body where it probably blocked the spiral gear from passing it I'm not too sure

*Dentist Work*

Clean parts just make a world of difference its a crime and shame that these parts wont be seen





















Chuck was then reassembled and a very light coating of grease added(regular grease, not positive this is a good move on my part please advise)





*Things that aren't working currently*
3 Jaw Chuck ( jaws mismatched and seized somehow) *Fixedish waiting for the results*
Half nut doesn't want to engage (ok so I goofed and did not know about the lockout, don't judge me)
quick change gearbox selector doesn't want to move *sorted*
Busted Cross feed nut
Tailstock clamp missing (to clamp to the bed)
Bull Gear Tooth Chipped
Motor is Dead *Fixed*


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## YYCHM (Sep 1, 2022)

Cryoine said:


> Half nut doesn't want to engage (ok so I goofed and did not know about the lockout, don't judge me)



Hey, I've had my 9" for well over 3 years now and only just discovered that feature LOL.....  Holy panic for a few minutes.


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## Cryoine (Sep 1, 2022)

Tecnico said:


> Congrats, you've scooped up a lifetime of "barn find" projects there!  Where to start???
> 
> Not sure how up on Myfords you are but it looks like you have a couple of ML7s in your collection.  As @YotaBota notes, one with a QC gear box is a nice bonus.  Both are similar to the one in this thread:  Lathe Auction Thread and if I'm not mistaken the ML7 does not have a powered cross feed which came with the Super 7 upgrades.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure about the drill presses tbh, all i know is one if made April 1964 if I'm not wrong, i emailed Meddings the serial number and they gave me back that info. I'll actually move it pretty soon and by then i should have better video making gear to do videos of these things. Withworth fasteners?? you just gave me more home work.


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## Tecnico (Sep 2, 2022)

Cryoine said:


> Withworth fasteners?? you just gave me more home work.


LOL!  

Yeah, that was an unexpected "Easter egg".  Makes sense given how old the design is and where it came from,  all part of the charm for those machines.  I scrambled around and found some wrenches from when my father worked on his Morris cars back in the day but I did have to improvise in some places. 

My shop speaks many languages, there's metric and imperial in my First Mill!  At least there's no metric on my S7!  

D


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## Cryoine (Sep 4, 2022)

Making My Bed

After a few weeks I got the all major parts removed from the lathe and got it stripped back to the bed, the paint isn't in really bad condition it was just CAKED in grease(which I consider the enemy) I then got the head stock bull bear removed and packaged up for sending off to the machine shop also started on the machine table then ran out of rags and degreaser.

It was also just now then I was messing around with the apron gears then I found the piece of metal that acted as the lock out on the half nut and the power feed and also found out that I needed at least one new cam lock stud 

*Things that aren't working currently*
3 Jaw Chuck ( jaws mismatched and seized somehow) *Fixedish waiting for the results*
Half nut doesn't want to engage (ok so I goofed and did not know about the lockout, don't judge me) Found the problem lol
quick change gearbox selector doesn't want to move *sorted*
Busted Cross feed nut
Tailstock clamp missing (to clamp to the bed)
Bull Gear Tooth Chipped
Motor is Dead *Fixed*
Cam Lock Stud Bent


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## Cryoine (Sep 4, 2022)

Tecnico said:


> LOL!
> 
> Yeah, that was an unexpected "Easter egg".  Makes sense given how old the design is and where it came from,  all part of the charm for those machines.  I scrambled around and found some wrenches from when my father worked on his Morris cars back in the day but I did have to improvise in some places.
> 
> ...


I also work with both units and this lathe is a bit on the strange side, it reports measurements in metric but has parts made to imperial standards, my metric tools don't fit quite so snug where as the imperial ones do.


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## Tecnico (Sep 4, 2022)

> Cryoine said:    I also work with both units and this lathe is a bit on the strange side, it reports measurements in metric but has parts made to imperial standards, my metric tools don't fit quite so snug where as the imperial ones do.



Made in (metric) Canada Eh!

I am, but I suppose I shouldn't be surprised that you're having to scrape layers of grunge off your SM. 

Your machine looks like the one I first used when I was introduced to turning.

D


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## Cryoine (Sep 5, 2022)

Just a mini update today 

Did some bright work today on the ways with some kerosene oil and scotch brite pads, also cleaned up the chip pan

dropped off the bull gear at the machine shop and started to hunt around for a few bearings ( bearing 16, 6303 in the head stock is due for a change its making a faint grinding noise) next set of updates should be when I'm fitting everything together, I also might be working to convert this machine to a CNC capable I'm playing around with the idea


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## That-Guy (Sep 8, 2022)

Nice project! I've got a soft spot for those ol' standard not so moderns myself. Have had two, and a half of the bigger brother to yours. My first one had a broken tooth on the bull gear just like yours. I just drilled and pinned it with some long set screws and then filed my heart out. Had a slight "click", but did alot of good work! 

The beds on the utilathes wear easily when abused,  I'd pay close attention to this as it may render the bed not usable for a cnc conversion. I also ran into this issue on my first lathe. Could still turn parts out in dimension (0.0005" repeatability on shorter{less than 2"} parts. On long parts I had to account for the taper) manually though. Best of luck!!


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## Cryoine (Sep 8, 2022)

That-Guy said:


> Nice project! I've got a soft spot for those ol' standard not so moderns myself. Have had two, and a half of the bigger brother to yours. My first one had a broken tooth on the bull gear just like yours. I just drilled and pinned it with some long set screws and then filed my heart out. Had a slight "click", but did alot of good work!
> 
> The beds on the utilathes wear easily when abused,  I'd pay close attention to this as it may render the bed not usable for a cnc conversion. I also ran into this issue on my first lathe. Could still turn parts out in dimension (0.0005" repeatability on shorter{less than 2"} parts. On long parts I had to account for the taper) manually though. Best of luck!!


yup this is something ill have to look into, in the shop this machine was at they normally use the smaller lathes exclusively for threading, so with the threading sections of this machine properly kaput, they might not have used it that much (fingers crossed). even with that said though this machine was crashed at some point in time with the broken gear and sheared share pin, as well as some potential bent shafts in the gearbox


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## Tom O (Sep 8, 2022)

My Clausing also has a chipped bull gear I think it’s from engaging the back gear to loosen the chuck. I think usually when pinning a broken tooth with a set screw it is built up with braze then shaped to size.


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## RobinHood (Sep 8, 2022)

Just noticed this in the photo you posted: the oil scraper edges should be parallel to and touch the face of the bull gear. Can’t tell what material the scraper is (looks like steel?), but both my SM1340 and the SM1120 have brass oil scrapers. Perhaps in older SMs they used a different material / set-up?


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## Cryoine (Sep 8, 2022)

Another separate update, this will go into its own post later when its more developed but its a teaser for another project

it involves 3d cad, cnc and 3d printing lol


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## Cryoine (Sep 8, 2022)

RobinHood said:


> Just noticed this in the photo you posted: the oil scraper edges should be parallel to and touch the face of the bull gear. Can’t tell what material the scraper is (looks like steel?), but both my SM1340 and the SM1120 have brass oil scrapers. Perhaps in older SMs they used a different material / set-up?
> 
> View attachment 26342


i saw this and was wondering what that thing was in the first place, but because its a harder material like steel that could be the reason why its not parallel to the gear face?


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## That-Guy (Sep 9, 2022)

RobinHood said:


> Just noticed this in the photo you posted: the oil scraper edges should be parallel to and touch the face of the bull gear. Can’t tell what material the scraper is (looks like steel?), but both my SM1340 and the SM1120 have brass oil scrapers. Perhaps in older SMs they used a different material / set-up?


I never noticed!!!!!! Welp, I guess I'm poppin' the top on my new SM tonight to make sure that one is alright! THANK YOU! You definitely are correct. They should be parallel, but on all these vintage SM's they are a steel oil grabber.  I've been into a few of these headstocks and so far have not found one that touches, they all have about 0.025" to 0.040" clearance.


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## RobinHood (Sep 9, 2022)

The purpose of the part is to “scrape” oil off the face of the bull gear and feed it to the main (front) spindle bearing for lubrication. It works both in FWD and REV spindle direction. The oil level (if properly maintained in the HS) is such that the bull gear is always dipping through the oil as it rotates. The oil gets picked up by not only the teeth of the gear, but also by both front and rear faces. The teeth bring the oil to the bull gear driver and it’s bearings (these are heavily loaded). The scraper needs to touch the front face of the BG to get a good amount of oil off of it to feed the main spindle bearing.

The thickness of the oil film depends on both the oil viscosity and its temperature. I believe a 30 weight machine oil is specified in the manual. When the oil is cold (room temp say), the oil film is quite substantial and as long as the scraper is close to the face, some oil will make it to the bearing. As the oil heats up, the film thickness decreases substantially and a scraper that is not touching will not get enough oil off the face to properly lube the main bearing, causing it heat up very quickly.

So, as I stated above, I don’t know why your scraper is steel. Steel is harder than the CI of the BG. So it would wear the face if it touches. But if it does not touch (or is at least very close), the oil flow is dramatically reduced to the bearing.

I wonder if at some point the bronze scraper was replaced (because it wore out?) and the only material they had was steel?

The scraper spacing is adjustable by undoing a set screw under HS cover gasket.

Here are some pictures of what it looks like in my SM1120.


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## RobinHood (Sep 9, 2022)

That-Guy said:


> They should be parallel, but on all these vintage SM's they are a steel oil grabber. I've been into a few of these headstocks and so far have not found one that touches, they all have about 0.025" to 0.040" clearance.


Interesting…

There must have been a design change in the late ‘70s or early ‘80s to the bronze scrapers.

Both my SMs are from that era (as confirmed by SM after I inquired and gave them the serial number).

Observation showed that the scraper needed to pretty much touch the face of the BG for warm oil to make it to the bearing. There was some splash lub going on, but not enough to keep the main bearing from heating up.


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## That-Guy (Sep 9, 2022)

RobinHood said:


> Interesting…
> 
> There must have been a design change in the late ‘70s or early ‘80s to the bronze scrapers.
> 
> ...


This is mine, with the 0.0020" gap, used lockwire since my feelers got legs apparently. I definitely like the brass/bronze one better!!! While I get that the oil will thin with heat, it should not be THAT thin as to pose an issue for a gap like this. Turbine engines have gaps that oil transfers over, and let me tell you..... I've got scars to prove how hot that oil gets!!!! lol. Please ignore the terrible gasket.... the lid is bent a bit from prior owners and its the only way to stop the oil falling out when it runs.






Cryoine said:


> Making My Bed
> 
> After a few weeks I got the all major parts removed from the lathe and got it stripped back to the bed, the paint isn't in really bad condition it was just CAKED in grease(which I consider the enemy) I then got the head stock bull bear removed and packaged up for sending off to the machine shop also started on the machine table then ran out of rags and degreaser.
> 
> ...


Does the Utililathe not have the oil scraper? I didn't notice it in your photos. Would any parts be interchangeable from the 2000 series???


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## Cryoine (Sep 9, 2022)

That-Guy said:


> This is mine, with the 0.0020" gap, used lockwire since my feelers got legs apparently. I definitely like the brass/bronze one better!!! While I get that the oil will thin with heat, it should not be THAT thin as to pose an issue for a gap like this. Turbine engines have gaps that oil transfers over, and let me tell you..... I've got scars to prove how hot that oil gets!!!! lol. Please ignore the terrible gasket.... the lid is bent a bit from prior owners and its the only way to stop the oil falling out when it runs.
> View attachment 26374
> 
> Does the Utililathe not have the oil scraper? I didn't notice it in your photos. Would any parts be interchangeable from the 2000 series???


I was actually looking at it and saying the same thing, but between mine and a few others headstocks that i have seen inside they don't carry that oil scraper. also there is nothing like that in the parts list. It is sorta confusing how they name the series of these machines but the utilathe 10 shares some parts with the utilathe 12 not so much with the 9 or 11


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## Cryoine (Sep 10, 2022)

That-Guy said:


> This is mine, with the 0.0020" gap, used lockwire since my feelers got legs apparently. I definitely like the brass/bronze one better!!! While I get that the oil will thin with heat, it should not be THAT thin as to pose an issue for a gap like this. Turbine engines have gaps that oil transfers over, and let me tell you..... I've got scars to prove how hot that oil gets!!!! lol. Please ignore the terrible gasket.... the lid is bent a bit from prior owners and its the only way to stop the oil falling out when it runs.
> View attachment 26374
> 
> Does the Utililathe not have the oil scraper? I didn't notice it in your photos. Would any parts be interchangeable from the 2000 series???


I can confirm that the utilathe10 carries no scraper





This is facing the front spindle bearing from inside the head stock


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## RobinHood (Sep 10, 2022)

Looks like we found one of the differences between the Utilathes and the (upgraded?) series 2000 machines (besides the more square look).


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