# Lesson learned



## David_R8 (Feb 4, 2020)

After a bunch of research I ordered a 4-jaw chuck and backplate from Shars in Dec.
Got them, had issues with the backplate as it was not spec'ed correctly. Sorted that out with Shars.

Just got a bill from $90 bill FedEx for GST, PST and brokerage.

All in it cost me $440 CDN
Chuck and backplate: $275
Shipping: $75
Brokerage: $90

I could have ordered similar product from KBC for $415 and had free shipping.

Lesson learned.


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## YotaBota (Feb 4, 2020)

We can probably all say "Been there, done that". I ordered $35usd worth of SS screws one time that would have cost me $100cdn to buy downtown. Buy the time exchange, UPS and customs got done bending me over it was $105cdn.


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## David_R8 (Feb 4, 2020)

I buy so much stuff from eBay that I completely forgot about the taxes and duty for the chuck. Doh!


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## Tom Kitta (Feb 4, 2020)

Why on earth do pp still use ultra expensive UPS brokerage? Come on its 2020 - get a free account with a brokerage service such as Border Bee and pay like $10 for brokerage. Here is actual copy of my last invoice:

DUTY 01 0.00 
GST ON B3 50 6.58 
BROKERAGE 03 10.00 * 
USE OF BOND/DISB. FEE 09 0.33 * 
GST ON SALES/SERVICES 60 0.52

I hope you stop overpaying for brokerage - unless you buy over 5000 or something it should never be more then around $15. 
Cannot do much about GST... 

Just wait 3 more months and new NAFTA will come into effect with its $100 exemption - wooo hooo!


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## David_R8 (Feb 4, 2020)

It was FedEx not UPS. I refuse to do cross-border business with any company that ships via UPS. I just was not thinking about it because I do the majority of my buying via eBay where I've never paid duty on anything.
Thanks for the BorderBee tip


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## francist (Feb 4, 2020)

Ugh, that hurts.


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## David_R8 (Feb 4, 2020)

Yeah, I was not happy but it’s my own fault. 


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## Crankit (Feb 4, 2020)

I used to do courier for a while, educating customers on how to avoid brokerage was common, best advice was bring cross-border shipments through the postal system being the cheapest way. I saw way to many US shippers send multiple box shipments as separate orders resulting in doubled brokerage costs!


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## PeterT (Feb 4, 2020)

Tom Kitta said:


> Just wait 3 more months and new NAFTA will come into effect with its $100 exemption - wooo hooo!



What have you heard  on the new regs Tom, that the first $100 on incoming N-Am items is duty free? Or anything under $100 is duty free? etc.

How do you typically get your items from Border Bee to Calgary?


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## PeterT (Feb 4, 2020)

Crankit said:


> I used to do courier for a while, educating customers on how to avoid brokerage was common, best advice was bring cross-border shipments through the postal system being the cheapest way. I saw way to many US shippers send multiple box shipments as separate orders resulting in doubled brokerage costs!



Yes multi-box is yet another issue although my experience is the couriers are actually on top of that. The predominant problem is most USA shippers use couriers like UPS extensively within their country & it works great. The manifests are all done electronically, the brown truck comes to the door & picks up 1000 packages. But as soon as that package crosses the border to Canada, its a new ballgame. All the couriers like UPS & Fedex charge customs assessment fees. So they could typically charge $45 for the task of determining what duty may apply (even if duty is zero). So you would pay $45 + any duty + GST + whatever the transport component is.

Some progressive USA dealers are sympathetic to the plight of Kanukistan citizens & will ship USPS (the equivalent of Canada Post but better). The transport cost is comparable but the most you pay is 5$ at the post office on top of duty & taxes. If it lands on your doorstep under the radar, you save the 5$. Big dollar items typically always get routed to post office.

Re Shars, they actually will ship USPS but you have to tell them. They recommend to non-USA customers to just call the order in. I recently bought something & clicked Buy thinking it would give me the opportunity to specify this (USPS) since my destination address was in Canada. Unfortunately their website doesn't quite catch this. I sent them an email immediately & they altered the order the next day with confirmation. Arrived USPS to my door no problemo. A chuck (depending on the weight) might be in the range of USPS. They are smarter than Canada post. They have progressive box sizes, if it fits in the box you pay that flat fee (as long as its not a box of tungsten or something overly dense).


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## David_R8 (Feb 4, 2020)

Shars told me that 28 lbs was too heavy for USPS. 


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## PeterT (Feb 4, 2020)

I thought it was closer to 70 pounds by Ground but it could be they have some arrangement it has to one of the preferential modes & that item was over.
https://support.pirateship.com/en/articles/1964328-maximum-size-and-weight-limits-for-usps-services

That's what I didn't finish saying above. USPS is kind of a pain for USA sellers. Yes, if you buy something from Joe on Ebay he will go over to the post office & stand in line. A bigger business typically wont do that. Or they may have a deal set up where USPS comes for pickup (like UPS) but only on expedited or one of the more expensive modes, faster delivery, tracking etc.

That's what strange about Amazon, you sometimes find an item 'fulfilled' by the same company using them for exposure, but their shipping is better than a brick & mortar shop. But that's because Amazon is the 2000 pound gorilla & commands discounted shipping rates other companies cant compete with.


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## Dabbler (Feb 4, 2020)

I use Fedex ground regularly and usually pay about $10 per hundred USD.  When I order from Shars, I do it over the phone and specifies their freight carrier (I think it is called 'Hercules')  When it arrives in calgary, I broker it myself.  Been self brokering for years.

Never bothered to self broker  for Fedex ground.


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## Crankit (Feb 5, 2020)

PeterT said:


> I thought it was closer to 70 pounds by Ground but it could be they have some arrangement it has to one of the preferential modes & that item was over.
> https://support.pirateship.com/en/articles/1964328-maximum-size-and-weight-limits-for-usps-services
> 
> That's what I didn't finish saying above. USPS is kind of a pain for USA sellers. Yes, if you buy something from Joe on Ebay he will go over to the post office & stand in line. A bigger business typically wont do that. Or they may have a deal set up where USPS comes for pickup (like UPS) but only on expedited or one of the more expensive modes, faster delivery, tracking etc.
> ...




USPS now does scheduled pickups like the rest of the couriers in the US.....The courier companies swing smokin deals with the likes of Amazon and Walmart  giving them flat rates for items under a certain weight and usually a fixed number of shipments.


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## trlvn (Feb 5, 2020)

David_R8 said:


> ...
> All in it cost me $440 CDN
> Chuck and backplate: $275
> Shipping: $75
> ...


Were you actually charged any duty?  Appears your cost from Shars was CDN $350 so 13% HST on that would be about CDN $45 plus about $45 to FedEx for their 'services'?  As mentioned above, Canada Post only charges $5 for essentially the same service.  The GST would be the same in either case.

Did the KBC price include GST?

Craig


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## David_R8 (Feb 5, 2020)

$31.56 in taxes
$10 “Advancement fee
$2.77 GST on advancement fee
$45.35 in Clearance entry fee

So from KBC I would have not paid the advancement, tax on that and the clearance entry fee or the $56 in shipping. 


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## trlvn (Feb 5, 2020)

Somehow, I can picture Tony Soprano explaining to a mark that he must pay "Clearance and Advancement fees".  

Or else.

Craig


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## Tom Kitta (Feb 5, 2020)

Border Bee is actually I think in Quebec. They simply do brokerage. All it takes is contacting them. They contact UPS / Fedex / DHL etc. telling them that they are your new brokerage. If after that contact date UPS charges you brokerage just let Border Bee figure it out and they reverse the charge. After its in the system its smooth sailing - you don't pay 90 CAD you pay 10 CAD. 

Yes it is that ridiculously easy way to save money.

All you have to do is say "I want to save money". And its done.

You can self broker to save more - or pay the $10. I believe you self broker near the airport - so the gas money depending on where you live may eat into that $10 saved. You also waste some of your time. Certainly it would be worth it if it was $90 like others pay! 

Regarding USPS - their limits are high on weight but not so limits of Canada Post. USPS is far and wide better then Canada Post - in US most regular pp ship metal with flat rate shipping boxes - when you watch videos on youtube you see people opening USPS boxes all the time - their flat rate boxes were a huge hit. People even experimented with weight sending just pennies in a box etc. and it all went through. Not so in Canada. Canada Post is very expensive. They use non-creative excuses for why we cannot have same in Canada for major cities. Somehow they want us to believe that road between New York and Los Angeles is magical vs. road between Toronto and Vancouver. Sure hwy #1 has more pot holes and is not wide in places but its still paved road. Very high shipping costs in Canada are a damper on Canadian online business.


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## Crankit (Feb 5, 2020)

If your going to have a 3rd party broker handle your shipment the package has to be very clearly marked as such by the US shipper or UPS/FedEx will broker anyways(Canadian Gov't allows them to) In ten years I had never saw a self-broker item come through the UPS system successfully, and boy did I see a lot of brokerage disputes!! One thing about brokerage is it has a base and a sliding scale tacked on to it, even though the paperwork doesn't really change, this is why CP's flat rate is so nice. UPS used to include brokerage on their Express shipments which was handy, you would get the COD tag but the amount owing was"0"....they changed it about 8 years ago and tagged on a $10 fee. Another thing, if you put what looks like a business name for a receiver, UPS would call you and ask if you wish to pay over the phone....now you can clear over their website. 

Also if you do have a shipment come through that you get double charged brokerage, you can dispute it through the driver and they will tag it as a dispute and send it to the resolution dept, then you get a hold of the US shipper and explain the issue, they then will need to contact UPS etc. for resolve....pay up front to get the package and fight afterwards and I will almost guarantee you will never get repayment!


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## John Conroy (Feb 5, 2020)

I think most of us have been burned by UPS or Fedex. I had Fedex deliver a package to my house when I was not home and then send me a bill for brokerage fees in the mail. I hope no one is holding their breath waiting for that to get paid.


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## Tom Kitta (Feb 5, 2020)

Crankit said:


> If your going to have a 3rd party broker handle your shipment the package has to be very clearly marked as such by the US shipper or UPS/FedEx will broker anyways(Canadian Gov't allows them to) In ten years I had never saw a self-broker item come through the UPS system successfully, and boy did I see a lot of brokerage disputes!! One thing about brokerage is it has a base and a sliding scale tacked on to it, even though the paperwork doesn't really change, this is why CP's flat rate is so nice. UPS used to include brokerage on their Express shipments which was handy, you would get the COD tag but the amount owing was"0"....they changed it about 8 years ago and tagged on a $10 fee. Another thing, if you put what looks like a business name for a receiver, UPS would call you and ask if you wish to pay over the phone....now you can clear over their website.
> 
> Also if you do have a shipment come through that you get double charged brokerage, you can dispute it through the driver and they will tag it as a dispute and send it to the resolution dept, then you get a hold of the US shipper and explain the issue, they then will need to contact UPS etc. for resolve....pay up front to get the package and fight afterwards and I will almost guarantee you will never get repayment!



I had dozens of packages cleared by Border Bee - no special marking at all needed - I never asked. A lot of commercial places do it all the time. Its all handled by computer systems now and automatic. Been that for years. 3rd party brokerage simply uses API of UPS / FedEx etc. and enters your address as handled by said 3rd party. Its a transaction. Once its in the system it goes smoothly. I.e. no one reads what is on the package anymore - its all 100% electronic. Even processing is electronic. Documents are all scanned in. Receipt is electronic and billing is electronic. Payment is... same way - automatic CC charge. 

Many years ago when I got Border Bee for the first time I got a dispute with brokerage - Border Bee handled it - it did not make it to the system. UPS had no issues they simply refunded it. And I paid BB. Only occurred once at the very beginning. 

I fail to see why anyone would still pay UPS brokerage rates - its super easy and quick to just pay $10. There are multiple companies that do it not just Border Bee. 

Ebay for example in their global shipping business uses a large company Pitney Bowes to do their brokerage. Grizzly industrial has their own brokerage - they do it on the sender's side.


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