# Milling Vises



## Tecnico (Apr 19, 2022)

I hope I'm not opening a can of worms here but I'm looking for opinions about milling vises.

First, how big a vise is the "right size" for a full size mill?  6 inch?  

Second, right now I'm feeling mill poor so I'm not running out to invest in a Kurt, not to mention that they don't show up in the local Kijiji.  I do know from using one that they're good equipment and quite desirable but..... is the equivalent Vevor 6" a reasonable option for a hobby machinist? Pro/Cons? I've seen some commentary/teardown that spoke favorabley of the Vevor/far east knock-offs.

Thanks

D


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## Susquatch (Apr 19, 2022)

If you have the patience, I'd wait for a good one on Kijiji or Marketplace. If not, get a cheap one knowing it's only temporary and then sell it when the right one follows you home.


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## YYCHM (Apr 19, 2022)

Use the search function.  This has been discussed many times already.


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## Darren (Apr 19, 2022)

If you are looking for a good Vise, I'm going to have a very nice 6" Rohm (opens to about 7.5"), with swivel base, for sale fairly soon.


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## kevin.decelles (Apr 19, 2022)

I’d date my share vise, I’d marry my curt.  

Both turn out product.   I’m not machining  beyond either of their limits.  I’d buy the Kurt again if I had the money, I’d probably complete all my projects in the last two years with any vise.

I drive a Chevy,  I’d take a Ferrari........


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## Susquatch (Apr 19, 2022)

kevin.decelles said:


> I’d date my share vise, I’d marry my curt.
> 
> Both turn out product.   I’m not machining  beyond either of their limits.  I’d buy the Kurt again if I had the money, I’d probably complete all my projects in the last two years with any vise.
> 
> I drive a Chevy,  I’d take a Ferrari........



OMG Kevin! Have you been drinking again?


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## Dabbler (Apr 19, 2022)

I lived with and managed with mid-quality vises for 30 + years, and then I bought a Kurt Knockoff sold by Thomas Skinner, new in the 6" size, and it changed my world  - in milling, at least.  Then I managed a price match on a Kurt DX6, and things got even better.

A thing to keep in mind is that the old style Asian 6" vises only open to 4 3/4";  The next generation ones open to 6+" and by reversing the jaws give you about 14" of clamping.

Buy what you can afford and keep looking for a deal on a better one.  You won't lose much money on any reasonable vise.


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## Degen (Apr 20, 2022)

I have a 6" Accusize on, low cost better than Busybee and less expensive than KBC.


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## Canadium (Apr 20, 2022)

Vevor claims precision of .002, Accusize claims 0.0002. I don't see any where that Kurt tells us but I had found one poster who found 0.0006 error in his brand new Kurt 6 inch. Accusize is almost 3X more expensive than Vevor and half the price of a similar Kurt. Now I imagine others could find a better critique for comparison but this newbies leaning toward an Accusize compromise.


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## Susquatch (Apr 20, 2022)

Sounds like a plan to me. 

Then start watching the community ads for an upgrade. Might take a while but lots and lots and lots of Kurt's out there. Just takes a while before someone sells theirs. Watch for a GS too. Mine was free with my mill. Guy selling didn't know it was worth more than I paid for the mill. Then again, at the time neither did I!


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## Mcgyver (Apr 20, 2022)

To state the obvious, the vise is a basic bit of mill tooling and the accuracy of everything you hold in it will be a function of how good it is.  

If you don't have a grinder and ability to fix them, its important to get a good one.  I recently did a video (posted here somewhere) on surveying a "happy vise" and it once again showed the propensity for (some/ a lot/most) of the China made stuff to completely fabricate claims of accuracy.   I've done this on another large Chinese vise once, and got the same results.

The Kurts are excellent.  You can sometimes get greatly reduced prices by going to smaller industrial supply/tool dealers.  There is HUGE mark up on this stuff.

Fortunately the angle lock patent is expired so that are many clones.  Maybe look to the better ones?  I'm leery of Accusize, they were basically a distributor of low end Chinese stuff then one day branded it all Accusize and trebled the price.  Maybe its good, but I'd have to have a tour of their QC lab (rather doubting there is one, but maybe) in Richmond Hill before becoming a believer.   While I suspect its getting better, the few pieces of Chinese tooling I've had my hands on, none was in spec to the claims or certs.

Because manufacturers claims can't be trusted with all these clones, imo its all BS and hearsay until someone does a survey of it.  If anyone wants to bring me a new Accusize vise I'll survey it and post the results.  Evidence vs claims.

Its a frustrating dilemma.  Its a key tool, but the trusted brands want an arm and leg and we're home shop guys.  otoh, if you don't buy a trusted brand, you need the grade A plate, tenths indicator, accurate square etc to be able survey them to know how accurate it is vs the fiction in the advertisement or on the certificate.

There was one clone maker that seem to get some good press, Glacern.  I think they are made in China but they either assembled and inspected or finish ground in California.  Not sure, and not saying they are any better, really don't know, but I remember a few years ago they put a bunch of effort into telling everyone they were lol.  I'd survey a new one them as well if anyone wants to bring one by

PS: don't entirely pass up on the old but quality vises that aren't anglelocks.  With a pair of hold downs, a good quality non anglelock vise can do as good or a better job...its just more of a pita to setup.  For thin stuff that would have to be gripped at the very top of the jaws, I still go with hold downs despite having a Kurt.


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## Susquatch (Apr 20, 2022)

Mcgyver said:


> To state the obvious, the vise is a basic bit of mill tooling and the accuracy of everything you hold in it will be a function of how good it is......
> 
> ..... I'm leery of Accusize, they were basically a distributor of low end Chinese stuff then one day branded it all Accusize and trebled the price.  Maybe its good, but I'd have to have a tour of their QC lab (rather doubting there is one, but maybe) in Richmond Hill before becoming a believer........



For one, I'd like to know more about Accusize. I've purchased more and more of their stuff as time passes. Initially it was just the odd thing that seemed like a reasonably safe purchase. But of late they seem to be doing better. I especially like their "Northern" line of tools. I have no idea where Northern is, if it is wholly owned, or what their QC is like. But I do "feel" that it's better than an apple barrel dunk from China and I have not been disappointed with a Northern tool - yet anyway.


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## Mcgyver (Apr 20, 2022)

I don't really know.  I do know they were simply a distributor.  Bought sold shipped.  That is a very different business activity than manufacturing (design make inspect).  As I can't see how just about overnight one goes from being one to other, I think there is a very high probably its just rebranding in which case it feels a bit wrong and is not worth with the premium.  Just my view, and its mostly speculation from a few touch points.

Its probably fair to say the quality of stuff out of China has improved (although there is still tons of junk ala my review of the (un-)happy vise).  Maybe Accusize is able to source better stuff, I don't know.  Not saying they are bad, I'm just leery.  Really to assess, things should be quanitifed, a feeling either way is only good for the look and finish lol.

As a side bar, there are significant culture differences around business and manufacturing there that makes it different and difficult.  I was involved with a business that had a plant there and, well, you're not in Kansas anymore.  An excellent book, "Poorly made in China" is by someone from the west who ends living there as a full consultant specializing in bridging the gap between east and west around outsourced manufacturing.  He gives an insightful  account and discussion of these differences and the quality challenges they create.  Really resonated with my experiences there.

As more manufacturers there learn the power of branding, they become stakeholders in product quality and things will change.  Already happening.  I bought a Chinese made gimbal for my camera, expensive and and a beautifully made product.  A good part the resin 3D printer market is branded Chinese product, same thing: pretty decent quality.  The more that takes hold, the great pressure there will be on existing "quality" manufacturers here and elsewhere, and the more the China=low quality thing will fade..but it will take time.


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## Aliva (Apr 20, 2022)

I purchased a 6" Kurt DX6 a couple of years ago from Travers. It was quite expensive compared to Accuzize and others. I look at this way, if you want to produce accurate parts on the mill eliminate the items that can introduce errors, and to me that starts  with the vise, next  would be tooling and finally operator proficiency. I'm still working on the last 2, but at least I know I can't blame the vise for poor results.


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## Susquatch (Apr 20, 2022)

Everything you say makes sense to me @Mcgyver .   

I spent two weeks there as a consultant for a customer looking at buying a fleet of electric vehicles made there. It was mostly garbage. But there was a really big political push (from both sides) to say it was world class. Wasn't coming out of my mouth. I believe that you are right, it will change eventually - but prolly not in my lifetime. Much easier to compete on price than quality. But I'd bet the small stuff will get there a lot faster and some probably already has. 

Just so you know, I'm not buying you a vise to test....  

LOL!


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## Mcgyver (Apr 20, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Just so you know, I'm not buying you a vise to test....
> 
> LOL!



Dude, it was just an offer of my time and tools.....you still keep the vise


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## Susquatch (Apr 20, 2022)

Mcgyver said:


> Dude, it was just an offer of my time and tools.....you still keep the vise



I assumed that, but it was fun to poke you! 

I don't need or want another vise though. Sounds like a great offer for @Canadium !


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## Mcgyver (Apr 20, 2022)

I will continue to make myself available as a wide, slow moving easy target


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## Gearhead88 (Apr 20, 2022)

All my vices  are junk , that’s all I got .


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## Canadium (Apr 20, 2022)

Mcgyver said:


> ...
> Because manufacturers claims can't be trusted with all these clones, imo its all BS and hearsay until someone does a survey of it.  If anyone wants to bring me a new Accusize vise I'll survey it and post the results.  Evidence vs claims.
> 
> ...



I think it would be fantastic if we could do exactly such a comparison/survey. Unfortunately I can't afford to get one of each kind of vice. Can we find a sponsor some where? Maybe Kurt would be willing to demonstrate why they are better?


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## 6.5 Fan (Apr 20, 2022)

I think my clone was made in India, bought it a long time ago from a Winnipeg based outfit that has folded the doors. Vise serves my purposes.


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## Rauce (Apr 20, 2022)

In my experience the cheap vises (busy bee, vevor, aliexpress etc.) fall short in both accuracy and how well they clamp the part. Even if one of them happened to have all perfectly square and flat surfaces it would still be frustrating to use.

I have a “GS” brand Kurt clone I got from a buddy. It’s much better but still probably not as good as the top tier brand name stuff.

Also, I would add that I think the best place to find a good brand name 6” milling vise is industrial auctions. They usually get separated from the machines so you’ll often see a dozen or more vises in one auction. They don’t go for super cheap but you could easily get a Kurt or similar quality vise for $200-400.


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## Degen (Apr 20, 2022)

I see things as follows on VISE's,

Do they clamp properly?
Are surfaces in the correct planes?
Since I set up my vice on the fixed jaw, that portion of accuracy is taken care of.

Don't forget all set up
Is off the part.  So as long as those are met, the final is the becomes longevity then which is where the difference is between between Good cost effective Asian and Expensive Kurt.

For me that cost difference vs life of tool allows me to buy other important consumable items such as Carbide tooling as I won't likely wear out the Good Asian one.


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## Six O Two (Apr 20, 2022)

Mcgyver said:


> There was one clone maker that seem to get some good press, Glacern.  I think they are made in China but they either assembled and inspected or finish ground in California.



Glacerns are cast in Taiwan, same as Shars' Tegara line. For my money, that's a world of difference. 

If I lived in the GTA, I'd definitely be looking at industrial auctions for a used Kurt, as Rauce mentioned. But I don't, and I couldn't even justify to myself the scratch and dent Kurts (which are a relatively good deal from Kurt, even with the exchange and shipping). I ended up looking at the mid-tier Taiwanese Kurt knockoffs - Homge (Precision Matthews and KBC), Teco, Tegara and the like.


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## Susquatch (Apr 20, 2022)

Rauce said:


> In my experience the cheap vises (busy bee, vevor, aliexpress etc.) fall short in both accuracy and how well they clamp the part. Even if one of them happened to have all perfectly square and flat surfaces it would still be frustrating to use.
> 
> I have a “GS” brand Kurt clone I got from a buddy. It’s much better but still probably not as good as the top tier brand name stuff.
> 
> Also, I would add that I think the best place to find a good brand name 6” milling vise is industrial auctions. They usually get separated from the machines so you’ll often see a dozen or more vises in one auction. They don’t go for super cheap but you could easily get a Kurt or similar quality vise for $200-400.



If yours is a GS as in Gerardi Spa or Gerardi SOWA with a logo that looks like this one etched onto it, 






Then it's an outstanding quality Vise that is like 2 to 5 grand new. 

There is some debate about whether the S stands for Spa (which is Italian for "Ltd") or SOWA who they partnered with here in North America. But regardless, the GS Vises are all first rate. 

I got mine free with my Hartford mill. The seller had no idea that the vise was worth more than the mill! 

It cost me 300 bucks just to buy new jaws for it.


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## Rauce (Apr 20, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> If yours is a GS as in Gerardi Spa or Gerardi SOWA with a logo that looks like this one etched onto it,
> 
> View attachment 23316
> 
> ...


It’s not like the modular style GS vises we have at work, it looks like a Kurt and only opens to 5.9” or something like that. I know it originally came from Sowa but I don’t think it is a Gerardi, the newer ones like it under the GS branding are only $700.


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## Dabbler (Apr 20, 2022)

The vise that @Janger and I bought is an Autowell vise made in Taiwan, and it goes on sale for around 500$ from time to time.  It is an exact clone of as Kurt 633 vise, which is a very solid vise that opens to the same 6 inchish that all the clones do.

I got my Kurt, brand new, from the same place, Thomas Skinner by doing a 3 step price match...  I picked it up in Calgary for just over 600$.  

On the mill, your most used item is the vise, and between your ways and the vise, is responsible for all of your accuracy.  

I have sold all my clone vises except the Autowell, which I am convinced is just as good as, or better than, my Kurt.

KAR has it on sale at $558.00  Thomas Skinner will price match it.  If you are in Hamilton, there is going to be a distributor that will give you the same price.  As I said, you won't notice the difference between this one and the Kurt DX6, and I own both.

here's the KAR link:





						PRECISION MILLING MACHINE VISE 6" X 7.5" JAW OPENING
					

<p><img src="https://kar.ca/media/wysiwyg/PrecisionMillingMachineVise_SKETCH.png" alt="Vise SKETCH" width="309" height="109" /></p>  <table class="details_table" border="1" cellspacing="5" cellpadding="1"> <tbody> <tr style="background: #B23F46; color




					kar.ca


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## Dabbler (Apr 20, 2022)

-- I should add that if you own an RF35 or RF40, a lesser vise will do. The limiting factor is in the rigidity of the machine  more than the rigidity of the vise.  I sold the best of my clones to a member, but he has a smaller machine.


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## John Conroy (Apr 20, 2022)

When I bought my first mill I also bought a Magnum brand 6" vise from KMS tools. I did some measurement checks on it and found that the bed was .010" higher at the rear than the front on one rail and .005 higher on the other.. I took it apart and used a flycutter to make the bed as flat as possible.













I also found that the fixed and moveable jaws were not the same height, both the permanent and replaceable ones. So after the bed was flat I also milled the jaws to match each other.





After all that the vise is pretty flat and square but I got frustrated with it's flexing when clamped tightly so I bought a Kurt DX6. The Kurt is a work art compared the the Magnum vise and the castings are so much harder and stiffer. It is a joy to use. I do still occasionally use the Magnum when I need 2 vises but I hate doing it.


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## Crosche (Apr 20, 2022)

Tecnico said:


> I hope I'm not opening a can of worms here but I'm looking for opinions about milling vises.
> 
> First, how big a vise is the "right size" for a full size mill?  6 inch?
> 
> ...



I have had my eyes on a 5" Tegara vise sold by Shars. https://www.shars.com/products/workholding/vise/5-550v-cnc-milling-machine-vise-0-0004-1


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## David_R8 (Apr 20, 2022)

Crosche said:


> I have had my eyes on a 5" Tegara vise sold by Shars. https://www.shars.com/products/workholding/vise/5-550v-cnc-milling-machine-vise-0-0004-1


I don't know if Shars has changed their UPS only to Canada shipping policy but I got hosed by UPS shipping and brokerage charges when I bought a 4-jaw chuck from them.


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## Rauce (Apr 20, 2022)

Yeah their prices are good including the exchange but the shipping is ridiculous.


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## Crosche (Apr 20, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> I don't know if Shars has changed their UPS only to Canada shipping policy but I got hosed by UPS shipping and brokerage charges when I bought a 4-jaw chuck from them.



You are right, shipping could be quite expensive. If I were to purchase a heavy item like a vise, then I would have it shipped to the border and go pick it up.


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## PeterT (Apr 20, 2022)

Call Shars first. They will ship items via USPS to Canada if requested (vs UPS = $ dinger fees over & above shipping). But only up to a certain weight. My guess is vise will be outside that range. So yes border pickup or intermediary drop point probably advisable. I don't think their online cart system is smart enough to provide options knowing the customer location, but they are accommodating over the phone.


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## Dabbler (Apr 20, 2022)

When I did a lot of business with them they told me that USPS would only be possible for international shipments up to 30 lbs.  They insisted I used UPS, but I got them to use Hercules transport instead.  But man, they are $$$.  (UPS was more) that's why I stopped using shars for anything biggerish.  I like Shars, but not for the heavy stuff.
Nowadays choose their free shipping for continental US and chose a border agency - it is about half the price.


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## David_R8 (Apr 20, 2022)

Dabbler said:


> When I did a lot of business with them they told me that USPS would only be possible for international shipments up to 30 lbs.  They insisted I used UPS, but I got them to use Hercules transport instead.  But man, they are $$$.  (UPS was more) that's why I stopped using shars for anything biggerish.  I like Shars, but not for the heavy stuff.
> Nowadays choose their free shipping for continental US and chose a border agency - it is about half the price.


I had a very negative experience with Shars early on and I'll never buy from them again.


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## Dabbler (Apr 20, 2022)

Shars is where I got my D1-6 cams from, at half price, then doubled the price for shipping.  but I got them in 2 weeks.  Total ws 80$ , but the Canadian alternatives were almost double that.


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## David_R8 (Apr 20, 2022)

Dabbler said:


> Shars is where I got my D1-6 cams from, at half price, then doubled the price for shipping.  but I got them in 2 weeks.  Total ws 80$ , but the Canadian alternatives were almost double that.


They sent me a defective backplate for my 4-jaw and I had to pay $60 UPS charges for the warranty replacement.


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## Degen (Apr 20, 2022)

My most first experience with Shars was great, mind you I have a business address in Niagara Falls NY I ship to and pick up regularly (even during COVID).


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## kevin.decelles (Apr 20, 2022)

I’ve ordered a fair amount from them but always using a border service.  Nothing for the past year or so


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## Tecnico (Apr 20, 2022)

Wow!  Lots of good discussion here, thanks for the input!  Lots of leads to follow up.

Just a couple of thoughts.  In this corner of the country (NS) we don't seem to have machinery auctions or much in the way of equipment being advertised on Kijiji which is what I think Craig was suggesting to search(?).  I'm doubting that there's much use in trying to answer an ad in Ontario or parts west for something like a vise.  Shipping would be a pain & expensive and you really want to see what you're getting unless the price is worth the risk.  Maybe I could score something in Quebec if I can line it up with a trip to visit the other half's family.

I've used a Kurt on a borrowed mill so I've seen first hand just how good they are but right now anything would be better then the 4" ERON drill press vise that came with my machine!  Like I said, lots to think about.  Interesting to see what John Conroy did to clean up an out of spec vise.  I imagined that the only way to true things up would be on a surface grinder...  Thanks for the heads up on the Rohm Darren, I'll have to look it up.

Wishing for a Ferrari & driving a VW.....of course both have their place!

D


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## Janger (Apr 20, 2022)

Workholding for Machinists
					

<p>Workholding for Machinists explains the various workholding options that are available to the metalworker, together with the principles behind them. The book explains the importance of precision in holding work in place and also the importance of tools and machines being held securely, so...




					www.chapters.indigo.ca
				




@Tecnico I'm gonna weigh in here as well. I've had good vises and they are worth it. However - in the short term another option for you is to get a clamping kit, $100ish. Learn how to work hold with that. This book explains a lot. Actually the cover picture explains an awful lot on it's own. Study the picture for lots of ideas on how to use a clamping kit. Put off buying the vise till you can get a good one and just use the clamp kit. Look for Vertex as another choice made in taiwan and very good products.

Instead of that shars vise you might as well buy one of the busy bee vises for far less money.


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## Tecnico (Apr 20, 2022)

@Janger As it turns out one of the things in my collection of accessories was a hold down kit so I'm going to have to explore what I can do with it.  Thanks for the reference.  I guess I've already gone there to some extent, I have had to make some hold downs so I could mill some things on my Myford lathe using the vertical slide.  I'm looking forward to having a real mill on site and giving the Myford a break.

I saw a couple of mentions of using a border service agency, what's involved there?  Do you have to come to the border to collect things or do they forward the shipment.  I'm not at a border point unless you consider a seaport to be one....

I engineered a Shars keyless chuck for my drill press as a Christmas present one year and I recall getting a "never again" comment from my S.O. because of the UPS fiasco.  Nice chuck though.

D


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## Janger (Apr 20, 2022)

__





						ACCURA/VERTEX 5" K-type milling vise new : Amazon.ca: Tools & Home Improvement
					

ACCURA/VERTEX 5" K-type milling vise new : Amazon.ca: Tools & Home Improvement



					www.amazon.ca
				




I've owned this one. It's very good. One possible issue is it is quite tall. I usually left the swivel base off. Also it only opens a limited amount - no huge parts.


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## Janger (Apr 20, 2022)

Tecnico said:


> I saw a couple of mentions of using a border service agency, what's involved there?  Do you have to come to the border to collect things or do they forward the shipment.  I'm not at a border point unless you consider a seaport to be one....


There are threads in here on that topic. You can go to the border or have it forwarded. Some people on here swear by it - others, not so much.


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## Tom Kitta (Apr 20, 2022)

If you want to try different vises I have like 10 all over my shop. Kurt gets by far the most use.


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## Tincup (Apr 20, 2022)

Saw this on kijiji here in GP, far exceeds my budget









						Kijiji - Buy, Sell & Save with Canada's #1 Local Classifieds
					

Visit Kijiji Classifieds to buy, sell, or trade almost anything! New and used items, cars, real estate, jobs, services, vacation rentals and more virtually anywhere.




					www.kijiji.ca


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## Janger (Apr 20, 2022)

And it’s bigger than your mill. ;>


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## Mcgyver (Apr 21, 2022)




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## Susquatch (Apr 21, 2022)

Tecnico said:


> I saw a couple of mentions of using a border service agency, what's involved there? Do you have to come to the border to collect things or do they forward the shipment. I'm not at a border point unless you consider a seaport to be one....



There are at least four types:

1. Outfits that give you a US Address where things get delivered to. They email you when you get a package. You have to go get it. 

2. Outfits that you ship to in the US but they import it for you and then deliver to you or hold for you. 

3. Outfits that do everything including delivery. AND GET AN IMPORT CERTIFICATE for things that are not normally allowed. 

4. A buddy of yours in the US who helps you out. 

Too many individual outfits to list. Just pick your poison and google it.


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## combustable herbage (Apr 21, 2022)

Janger said:


> Workholding for Machinists
> 
> 
> <p>Workholding for Machinists explains the various workholding options that are available to the metalworker, together with the principles behind them. The book explains the importance of precision in holding work in place and also the importance of tools and machines being held securely, so...
> ...


Thanks for the heads up on this one @Janger I was just down in the shop a few days ago and made a mental note to find some workholding resources this one might be just what I am looking for.


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## ShawnR (Apr 21, 2022)




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## Canadium (Apr 30, 2022)

Rauce said:


> ...
> Also, I would add that I think the best place to find a good brand name 6” milling vise is industrial auctions. They usually get separated from the machines so you’ll often see a dozen or more vises in one auction. They don’t go for super cheap but you could easily get a Kurt or similar quality vise for $200-400.



I've been cruising around these industrial auctions for ages. Just blew way too much money at yet another one! Among other things I brought home was an 8" Rohm I got for $125. Ya I know its too big but I couldn't resist the price. It needs a cleanup real bad though. Yet another project to add to the other millions of projects I have waiting in line already.


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## trlvn (Apr 30, 2022)

Canadium said:


> Among other things I brought home was an 8" Rohm


Pictures!  We need pictures!



Craig


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## Rauce (Apr 30, 2022)

Canadium said:


> I've been cruising around these industrial auctions for ages. Just blew way too much money at yet another one! Among other things I brought home was an 8" Rohm I got for $125. Ya I know its too big but I couldn't resist the price. It needs a cleanup real bad though. Yet another project to add to the other millions of projects I have waiting in line already.


The Millen auction in stoney creek? I picked up a Bison 4-Jaw for the Hendey there yesterday.

I think an 8" could work on a Bridgeport if you don't mind how far it sticks out. I did the same thing a few years ago and picked up a cheap 8" vise but in my small shop I kept bumping into it.


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## Canadium (Apr 30, 2022)

trlvn said:


> Pictures!  We need pictures!
> 
> 
> 
> Craig


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## Darren (Apr 30, 2022)

Good price. Looks just like mine.


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## Canadium (Apr 30, 2022)

Rauce said:


> The Millen auction in stoney creek? I picked up a Bison 4-Jaw for the Hendey there yesterday.



Yes indeed! I was worried that we might be bidding against each other! Was tempted to connect with you to coordinate that. There were some pretty good deals there. I had the impression the bidding was not very aggressive. As if the economy is faltering and the business guys were largely absent. Might post about what else I got somewhere else so as not to derail this thread if I haven't already.


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## Mcgyver (Apr 30, 2022)

Canadium said:


> As if the economy is faltering and the business guys were largely absent. Might post about what else I got somewhere else so as not to derail this thread if I haven't already.


Or so busy they have no time for auction watching.  

Everyone I talk says they are crazy busy right now.....hope the interest rate hikes aren't too big a dose of cold water....its been good times the last two years despite Covid.


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## Tecnico (Apr 30, 2022)

Hmmmm, not bad!

D


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## Rauce (Apr 30, 2022)

Mcgyver said:


> Or so busy they have no time for auction watching.
> 
> Everyone I talk says they are crazy busy right now.....hope the interest rate hikes aren't too big a dose of cold water....its been good times the last two years despite Covid.


That's mostly what I hear as well. Job market for machinists and related professions is very tight right now as well. 



Canadium said:


> Yes indeed! I was worried that we might be bidding against each other! Was tempted to connect with you to coordinate that. There were some pretty good deals there. I had the impression the bidding was not very aggressive.


I really only had my eye on the chucks I bought. There was a Gerardi vise and a gage block accessory kit I was watching but was only going to bid if they stayed cheap. 

When I picked up the chucks on Friday just before noon there was a guy carting off dozens of boxes of toolholders and end mills, so there were some of the usual suspects at least.


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## Susquatch (Apr 30, 2022)

Rauce said:


> There was a Gerardi vise and a gage block accessory kit I was watching but was only going to bid if they stayed cheap.



Any idea what model Gerardi Vise and what it went for?


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## Canadium (Apr 30, 2022)

Rauce said:


> When I picked up the chucks on Friday just before noon there was a guy carting off dozens of boxes of toolholders and end mills, so there were some of the usual suspects at least.



We must have just missed each other! I was there about noon on Friday as well! But when I was there no one else was in sight. The guy running the show had lots of time for me.


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## CWret (May 1, 2022)

Re: US border address (comments by @Degen, @Tecnico, @Susquatch)
FYI: I use Kinek in Niagara Falls NY (kinek.com). They also have other locations. They work like Susquatch's option #1. 
They have worked well for me, with no issues.


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## CWret (May 1, 2022)

Re Auction: @Canadium, @Rauce 
I'm in Burlington and would be interested in attending a Millen auction. What is their www address/contact info, I couldn't find them in a quick search?
- Maybe if CHMW members are attending such an auction they should post or PM so as to avoid bidding against each other.


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## Rauce (May 1, 2022)

CWret said:


> Re Auction: @Canadium, @Rauce
> I'm in Burlington and would be interested in attending a Millen auction. What is their www address/contact info, I couldn't find them in a quick search?
> - Maybe if CHMW members are attending such an auction they should post or PM so as to avoid bidding against each other.


Millen was the name of machine shop closing down. Infinity Asset Solutions was the auctioneer. 





__





						Industrial machinery auctions – Infinity Asset Solutions
					

Home of industrial machinery auctions, Infinity Asset Solutions has been providing machine tool auction services to The Greater Toronto area and beyond.




					infinityassets.com
				




All their auctions are run online through Bidspotter. 









						Bidspotter.com | Industrial, Commercial, Plant and Machinery auctions
					

Bid online for industrial and commercial lots at the the Web's No.1 online auction site




					www.bidspotter.com
				




Typically there’s a day you can go and view the lots in person a day or two before bidding closes.


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## Canadium (May 1, 2022)

CWret said:


> Re: US border address (comments by @Degen, @Tecnico, @Susquatch)
> FYI: I use Kinek in Niagara Falls NY (kinek.com). They also have other locations. They work like Susquatch's option #1.
> They have worked well for me, with no issues.



I've used the UPS outlet in Niagara Falls. Don't know how the fees compare?


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## CWret (May 1, 2022)

I was thinking I would post the below question/photos in the "Looking for Answers" section. but I'll start here -
Yesterday my downsizing neighbour gave me a couple of very similar vises. I would like more info on this type of vise - use, manufacturer, value. They hold a part very securely and will be a much lower profile than a regular milling vise + can be placed on their side.
I cleaned them up and have them functioning perfectly. They seem to be very high quality and apparently tight tolerances. The one photo shows a AKT trademark but I couldn't find a match for that logo.
FYI: I'm on the hunt to add a mill to my toys, I have no milling experience. I have been adding things like: a milling vise (kijiji, 5" Precision Matthews); bar clamping kit; measuring instruments; cross sliding, T slotted table for my drill press; etc - so that my jump to milling will be a step, not a jump.
So here are the pics: (one of the pics is of the underside of the bases, where they differ a bit). Also, one came with a plastic box and appears old but maybe the box indicates it's not really that old or the box would be wood.


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## CWret (May 1, 2022)

Re: bar clamping kit comment by @Janger, post 42.
A bar clamping kit is not as quick/convenient as a vise but will do almost everything you need to hold a part + things a vise can't. Good vise advice from John, with an inexpensive vise and bar clamping kit then the expensive vise can be added later.


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## Susquatch (May 1, 2022)

CWret said:


> I was thinking I would post the below question/photos in the "Looking for Answers" section. but I'll start here -
> Yesterday my downsizing neighbour gave me a couple of very similar vises. I would like more info on this type of vise - use, manufacturer, value. They hold a part very securely and will be a much lower profile than a regular milling vise + can be placed on their side.
> I cleaned them up and have them functioning perfectly. They seem to be very high quality and apparently tight tolerances. The one photo shows a AKT trademark but I couldn't find a match for that logo.
> FYI: I'm on the hunt to add a mill to my toys, I have no milling experience. I have been adding things like: a milling vise (kijiji, 5" Precision Matthews); bar clamping kit; measuring instruments; cross sliding, T slotted table for my drill press; etc - so that my jump to milling will be a step, not a jump.
> So here are the pics: (one of the pics is of the underside of the bases, where they differ a bit). Also, one came with a plastic box and appears old but maybe the box indicates it's not really that old or the box would be wood.View attachment 23587View attachment 23588View attachment 23589View attachment 23590View attachment 23591



I believe these are all varients of what is often called a machinists vise. They can be used alone, but are more often used by clamping the machinists vise in a bigger vise and putting the work part in the smaller machinists vise. They come in a VERY WIDE range of quality. To use them alone, you usually have to make Pin Clamps.


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## Mcgyver (May 1, 2022)

CWret said:


> Yesterday my downsizing neighbour gave me a couple of very similar vises. I would like more info on this type of vise - use, manufacturer, value.


Grinding or toolmakers vise.  Use for, well, grinding . They get used on the mag chuck and should be very accurate - ground all over, parallel and square. Used, around here (toronto), they'd be $100-$125 unless some special make.  I don't know that brand, but a large percentage of the ones I've seen were shopmade, made by toolmakers likely during their apprenticeship. The quality of those is usually very high.

Lots of guys use them on benchtop mills, I guess because they are the right size.  Nothing wrong with that, if it works, it works.  Personally I'd prefer a milling vise in that those don't have a milling vise's clamping force and they're pain to adjust for size (well, the pin right through is, the scalloped style, on the left is less so).  otoh the clamping force might not matter so much on a small mill where cutting forces are less


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## CWret (May 1, 2022)

Thanks, @Mcgyver @Susquatch - comments much appreciated.
How do you start your reply with:
"CWret said ---"


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## Mcgyver (May 1, 2022)

click "+Quote" then click "Reply", both of which appears in the bottom right corner of a message


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## CWret (May 1, 2022)

Mcgyver said:


> click "+Quote" then click "Reply", both of which appears in the bottom right corner of a message


Got it - easy. Thanks


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## Chicken lights (May 1, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> There are at least four types:
> 
> 1. Outfits that give you a US Address where things get delivered to. They email you when you get a package. You have to go get it.
> 
> ...


5. Friendly cross border truck driver 
*coughs*


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## Degen (May 6, 2022)

Chicken lights said:


> 5. Friendly cross border truck driver
> *coughs*


This is coming to a stop Canada Customs is cracking down in this and turning trucks back.  COVID made it worse.


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## Chicken lights (May 6, 2022)

Degen said:


> This is coming to a stop Canada Customs is cracking down in this and turning trucks back.  COVID made it worse.


What do you mean? Up until January 2022 I didn’t see any changes


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## Degen (May 6, 2022)

Chicken lights said:


> What do you mean? Up until January 2022 I didn’t see any changes


I speak with the owner of the shipping address I use, and she has been seeing a lot more trucks turned back to return the goods as they are not licensed/insured couriers then the goods listed on their manifests.  I has lead to a few PO'd truckers.  Additionally, I have been suggested on several occasions last year not to being doing that (which I wasn't in any case) in case I was thinking of it.  Not sure what is going on or why, but it is a bad thing to get in their bad books.

Not sure how this is going to be now that restrictions are being lifted.  Just be careful and aware.


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## Chicken lights (May 6, 2022)

Degen said:


> I speak with the owner of the shipping address I use, and she has been seeing a lot more trucks turned back to return the goods as they are not licensed/insured couriers then the goods listed on their manifests.  I has lead to a few PO'd truckers.  Additionally, I have been suggested on several occasions last year not to being doing that (which I wasn't in any case) in case I was thinking of it.  Not sure what is going on or why, but it is a bad thing to get in their bad books.
> 
> Not sure how this is going to be now that restrictions are being lifted.  Just be careful and aware.


I’m not following? Are they declaring commercial goods at the booths not on the manifest?

Rookies 

I don’t go anywhere near the border unless all commercial goods have been cleared for entry 

I hadn’t heard about restrictions being lifted, I still can’t cross, what have you heard?


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