# Morse Taper Arbors - Drawbar to Tang conversion



## Jimbojones (Dec 20, 2017)

Anyone have a source for these drawbar-to-tang screws?   I've seen them listed as Tang Screw-ins or Tang Screws but the price is usually pretty silly ($10+/ea).


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## Dabbler (Dec 21, 2017)

I'd love a few, too!


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## Jimbojones (Dec 21, 2017)

I got a guy overseas whos say he can get them to me approx $8 shipping incl (assuming 10 or more); would be combo of MT2 and MT3; Better than the $15 I've seen on other guys
Anyone got a cheaper source and/or interested in group buy...let me know.

Got another guy that sent me a nice floating tailstock die holder w/5 holder sizes and MT2 & 3 alignment bars accurate to 1 micron and shipped from mid-east to Canada...in 3 days!!!  Nicer quality than usual overseas stuff and notably cheaper than NA suppliers (who also get it overseas...some of them from him).  Says he's got 1500 SKU's of machine tools and a factory of workers behind him.  If he keeps selling to me direct, might be my new best friend


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## PeterT (Dec 21, 2017)

*floating tailstock die holder* - tell me more.. with pictures!  Are you saying this was a one-off or he has others?

I'm also looking for something with MT3 tailstock taper but a 0.500" straight bore ID. I have a mini precision chuck with straight 1/2" shank I want to use as hand feed sensitive drill for teeny drills. Most guys machine a collar, but then you are back to holding that in bigger chuck. I'm trying to reduce the number of middleman.

Speaking of floating, I'm also intrigued by floating reamer holders. They are either spendy or complicated to build. Does your 'guy' do those?


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## Jimbojones (Dec 21, 2017)

These can come with 1/2" straight, MT2 or MT3 shank and there is a channel on both sides of the holder to allow it to float on the shank..  Note that this isn't the cheaper shallow version where the cup-only gets swapped .  Plus the barrel is knurled in case you want to grip it manually. Usually sells with 4 holder sizes but he also banged together a 5th size for me (2") which is a bit uncommon in this type of setup (usually only goes up to 1-1/2" die) .  

Looking forward to testing his MT2 alignment bar for centering my rotary table to mill: pop the MT2 end in to middle of rotab and then line up with collet in quill....should be dialed-in within seconds.  Claims the bar is within 1 micron concentric...

Better workmanship than comparables at same/higher price point and I'd be willing to bring samples to our next gathering so guys can check them out for themselves.  

 He's been quite candid that he doesn't want to do one-offs but has plenty of plans for making other tools and will bang out a batch if he has buyers....I've asked for his entire catalog of what's possible and he didn't gouge for shipping so I'm definitely looking forward to the rest of his lineup.


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## PeterT (Dec 22, 2017)

So the shiny shaft segment sticking out of the die holder (middle picture), what diameter is that? Is that intended to slide in a MT shank with matching ID hole so you hold or turn tool by hand? Or is the shaft stub intended to be gripped in TS chuck & you advance the TS while chuck is turning?

Actually I made a similar die body as those for my TS because typical die handles are so crappy these days. I have a cross hole for an insertable tommy bar for leverage.


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## Dabbler (Dec 22, 2017)

jimbo, that's a great deal on the tangs...  I'd like to get a few:  was (eventually) going to make some for myself, but that price is not much more than the cost of materials and wear on the cutters...

the die holder is interesting... how much could we get one for, or is a group buy needed?

regardless - you found a great resource!


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## Jimbojones (Dec 22, 2017)

The straight shaft in that photo is meant to be held by a collet or drill chuck (stock photo).  I would image that you'd need a tommy bar with the straight-shank version and simply replace the guide pin with a bar.

The one I ordered is MT3 taper w/tang so that it can drop directly in to tailstock and then thread under power (tommy bar not required). Also, you could remove the pin and rotate manually.

here's a link to a site that shows multiple photos so you can get a better idea of the details of the Morse-type versions (I didnt have my set handy but its nearly identical to this one)
https://www.lprtoolmakers.com.au/ta...die-holder-set-13-16-1-1-5-16-1-1-2-dies-3mt/
fwiw - my set cost notably less than that site





PeterT said:


> So the shiny shaft segment sticking out of the die holder (middle picture), what diameter is that? Is that intended to slide in a MT shank with matching ID hole so you hold or turn tool by hand? Or is the shaft stub intended to be gripped in TS chuck & you advance the TS while chuck is turning?
> 
> Actually I made a similar die body as those for my TS because typical die handles are so crappy these days. I have a cross hole for an insertable tommy bar for leverage.


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## PeterT (Dec 22, 2017)

I like that each die size is a separate dedicated part. I don't have a ton of die threading experience on the lathe but having a tough time visualizing hand gripping on the knurl on threads much above 3/8 dia steel (or maybe I'm a wimp LOL). I think with the MT tang & slot/pin mechanism this is meant to be advanced with TS locked down. Maybe that's a smarter way to go.

I've seen this (tang-less)Tommy bar style on Ebay but it has bolt-on adapter heads for larger dies.


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## Jimbojones (Dec 22, 2017)

manual holder turning = either starting the thread, backing the die off, etc...
- I just thought of another use:  cleaning up a thread in a confined space so not much force is required but there is no room to swing standard die holder handles...you don't need the shank to use the holders like other designs.

Overall, the TS would be locked and the holder has a slot to float while keeping the alignment in check. 

My biggest use is for making threaded studs and I don't like making 20+ passes to form a complete thread. Therefore, I used to resort to using a traditional die holder that I somehow managed to start off-square and then the stud has a slight lean to it.  With this tool, I make a few passes with the lathe to give me a starting thread that is square to the rod and then do the bulk of the work with this holder.


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## PeterT (Dec 22, 2017)

On the tommy bar style (or die wrench for that matter) you can hold the handle with right hand & rotate chuck with left hand in neutral gear. Its slower but I do this to advance the die a couple turns, back off to break the chip, then advance again. I've seen where people power die-thread with the handle stopped against the lathe bed. But even with handle protection I personally don't want to risk gouging the bed as it slides. I agree, starting the thread perpendicular is half the battle.

Last thread I did on was only 5/16-18 & it took some muscle with a normal die handle. Happened to be O1 tool steel which I wouldn't think to be tough stuff or prone to work hardening. I agree, cut threads, even partial, would take a lot of load of die threading. Especially larger diameters.


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## Janger (Dec 24, 2017)

Dabbler said:


> jimbo, that's a great deal on the tangs...  I'd like to get a few:  was (eventually) going to make some for myself, but that price is not much more than the cost of materials and wear on the cutters...
> 
> the die holder is interesting... how much could we get one for, or is a group buy needed?
> 
> regardless - you found a great resource!



Yes... that would be an interesting tool to own. Group purchase? Prices?


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## PeterT (Dec 26, 2017)

Not intending to thwart a group deal, but happened to notice this. Shows a slight variation? on the tommy bar & slider pin with some description.
http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Cutting-Tools/Sliding-Tailstock-Die-Holder-Sets


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## Jimbojones (Dec 27, 2017)

Not a fan of 1) single guide pin design 2) "cups" that you add for size changes.  Full-on individual holders w/dual guides are more rigid and you can swap the pin for a tommy bar, if you want leverage


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## Jimbojones (Dec 27, 2017)

Back to Tang screw topic; measured a few MT3 pullbar arbors I have and most are 3/8-16 (or 10x1.5mm) and that also seems to be common for MT2...I do have one though that is M12x1.75.   

What size are people here encountering in case I grab extras...


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## Dabbler (Dec 27, 2017)

I'd be happy to pick up 2 for MT3.  It has been on the 'round tuit' list for a lot of years already!


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## DPittman (Jan 3, 2018)

Jimbojones said:


> I got a guy overseas whos say he can get them to me approx $8 shipping incl (assuming 10 or more); would be combo of MT2 and MT3; Better than the $15 I've seen on other guys
> Anyone got a cheaper source and/or interested in group buy...let me know.
> 
> Got another guy that sent me a nice floating tailstock die holder w/5 holder sizes and MT2 & 3 alignment bars accurate to 1 micron and shipped from mid-east to Canada...in 3 days!!!  Nicer quality than usual overseas stuff and notably cheaper than NA suppliers (who also get it overseas...some of them from him).  Says he's got 1500 SKU's of machine tools and a factory of workers behind him.  If he keeps selling to me direct, might be my new best friend



Ok I'm going to let my ignorance shine through yet once again.....
What is the purpose of the screw in tang thingy?

Don


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## Jimbojones (Jan 3, 2018)

No worries, Don...this is NOT the Practical Machinist website where you get your @rse chewed for mentioning import equipment/tools 

1) The tang (tab) on the end of a Morse tape tool is used to help prevent it from spinning in it's holder and make it easier to eject

2) Let's say you have some MT3 drawbar-style tools (usually meant for a mill) but you also want to use them in a lathe tailstock; you can put the tool in the lathe as-is but if you can screw this part in, it converts it to a tang-style tool which then helps do the things mentioned in 1)

3) as a bonus, it could save you money by not needing to have both tang/drawbar styles of the same tool. I want tang for my lathe and no-tang for my rotary table...

Will be placing an order by month-end; expecting it to take up to a month to arrive and landed-cost (tax + shipping incl) will end up being about $10/ea....still decent considering other places I've found end up being double that.

Anyone interested can drop me a PM
James


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## Dabbler (Jan 3, 2018)

There is another very important use for the tang.  when you don't have it it is difficult to eject the tool from some MT3 tailstocks because it is too short.  The tang extension makes it possible (and quite easy)


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