# y.a. first 7x lathe Q



## whirlwynds (Feb 4, 2020)

I am debating between the busy bee cx704 and the Littlemachineshop hitorque 5100. worth the extra bucks and hassle for the 5100? I'd order it to niagara falls and use crossborder pickups to broker customs and transport it across the border to toronto. busy bee is local... 3 year warranty on the BB, 1 year on the LMS. brushless motor on the LMS. any other considerations?


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## kylemp (Feb 4, 2020)

Don't expect to get reasonable warranty support out of busy bee.


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## whirlwynds (Feb 4, 2020)

yes, i've read. kind of the bare minimum. "we'll order you a part, but who knows when it will arrive"


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## Marc Moreau (Feb 4, 2020)

Oui en effet ils manquent de personel qualifié pour faire leurs réparation. Je possède ce tour CX704  il va bien ,mais j'ai du canceller la (safety switch ) du garde ,elle empêchait le tour de démarrer. Le mandrin pour les mèche est beaucoup trop grop gros pour la capacité du moteur et prend beaucoup de place pour rien. Pour des petites pièces c'est bien. Je ne suis pas machiniste mais débutant. A la minute que le moteur force trop le tour arrête. Vous remettez la switch a off et et a on et sa fonctionne de nouveau. Je ne suis pas déçu du résultat.


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## David_R8 (Feb 4, 2020)

If I could easily obtain a LMS machine that would be my choice. 
Everything I’ve read about Busy Bee leads me to never want to order from them. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dabbler (Feb 4, 2020)

Up to 1990 or a little later they were still co-ordering with Grizzly and their quality was excellent.  Now these days, no one in any store seem to know or care about metal work.  The quality has gone down hill.  Some of their woodworking machines and belt sanders are just fine.


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## whirlwynds (Feb 4, 2020)

Merci Marc. Alors vous trouvez le précision acceptable? Avez vous considérez des autres modèles comme king ou LMS?


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## whirlwynds (Feb 4, 2020)

Dabbler said:


> Up to 1990 or a little later they were still co-ordering with Grizzly and their quality was excellent.  Now these days, no one in any store seem to know or care about metal work.  The quality has gone down hill.  Some of their woodworking machines and belt sanders are just fine.


Yes. It’s tough these days to distinguish between all of these Asian tools. For example the craftex 10” bandsaw vs the rikon one. The price is obviously tempting, but will it function in the way you need it to...


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## Dabbler (Feb 4, 2020)

King machines seem to be robust.  I don't know about today's quality.  The Modern 636 is a nice machine, but a little spendy.


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## Dabbler (Feb 4, 2020)

I have a busy bee CX101 bandsaw.  I couldn't be happier.  80-2200 sfpm on a vfd.


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## Marc Moreau (Feb 5, 2020)

grizzly et Busybee tant qu'a moi sont la même chose un USA et l'autre Canadien j'ai eu plus d'infos sur ma milling Craftex sur le site de Grizzly que les infos de Busybee. Mais j'ai déjà vue des mauvaises expériences sur nos voisins Américains qui semblaient enragés par leurs mauvais service. Moi j'ai un très bon service avec Rock chez Busybee a Ottawa il est très attentif et s'occupe bien de moi. La personne qui vous sert peut faire toute la différence. Aujourd'hui il est difficile de parler a quelqu'un au téléphone ,je site faite le 1 pour parler a un autre département faite le 2 ainsi de suite et finalement nos employés sont toutes présentement occupé,gardez la ligne et j'ai attendu jusqu'a une demi heure. Sa me fait du bien d'en parler.


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## trlvn (Feb 5, 2020)

On Youtube, there are several good channels where they make use of a Chinese mini lathe.  I don't own one but my impression is that you need to basically treat it as a "kit" that you can make into a usable lathe.  Initially it may need a bunch of cleaning and deburring, etc.  Later, you may do a bunch of modifications to make it more capable.

ThisOldTony did a great video on a similar machine:






Personally, I'd rather buy an older non-asian lathe even if it needs some repairs and tuning.  South Bend, Atlas, Myford and Logan all made bench-top lathes that, to me, have better 'bones'.  Parts are generally available; some more reasonably priced and other more ridiculous.  It may need work but so with the Chinese lathe.  In the end, I think you'll have more to show for your efforts with a used non-asian lathe.

YMMV

Craig


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## Tom Kitta (Feb 5, 2020)

I would look into online orders for larger models like 7 x 14 or even 7 x 16. No support but price is good. They are made in the same factory (1 or more) so "quality" will be the same. I would not worry at all about parts availability - as long as it is a mini lathe or mini mill they made so many millions of them that parts are all over the place. 

Yes you can get used lathe - but getting one that is in excellent shape is more of an art - it takes some time to figure stuff out. Frequently you need a lathe to fix more broken down lathe. Also badly clapped out US / UK made iron may not be such a great deal - not that it should matter that much for a beginner. You are not going to be making precision parts anytime soon.

Think of resale value, what you are getting for how much $$$ spent. Both with new and used. 

You can make precision parts with a mini lathe - it just needs some "changes" - there are videos online where people made "ultra precision mini lathe" - involves changes like bearings and new chucks etc. Think of mini lathe like AK-47 - its cheap widely used and does basic job well. If you want precision you will need to make changes but most of the time for average use its not that needed.


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## Dabbler (Feb 5, 2020)

+1 to the above.  I have been doing this nearly 40 years (45 if you include High school shop class).  I've made some big mistakes in purchases, but I was earning enough that they were,'t devastating.    It takes a lot of time (sweat equity) knowledge (experience) and a little luck to get a really good used lathe.  

For instance, a previous purchase will be excellent, once I put another 100 hours into it.  I am going to sell my last 'purchased new' machine, and then all my mills and lathes will be used.

On the bright side: with very few exceptions, the larger, older, more worn out machines will often pull a better chip and be more accurate than the newly purchased micro/mini lathes.  They give better surface finish with less problems, and they can use a cutoff blade without chatter.  But I'm biased towards bigger, heavier machines.  Some people just don't have the room.


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## whirlwynds (Feb 6, 2020)

Thank you to all for the responses. How are the emco lathes? looking at a compact 5 as an alternative to a chinese 7x, but i feel like perhaps there are more parts available for the chinese lathes?


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## Dabbler (Feb 7, 2020)

Stefan Gotteswinter (youtube, check him out) now uses an enco lathe.  He does some pretty spectacular work on it.


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## Bofobo (Feb 7, 2020)

Small machines are as mentioned a kit lathe, needs love, lots of write ups on this forum, I’ve owned one and may get another.


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## PeterT (Feb 7, 2020)

My undertanding (could be wrong) 'old Emco' was Austrian made, well built hobby machines generally under the Maximat ## model name series.
https://www.google.com/search?q=emc...XRGTQIHaj9AKEQ_AUoAXoECAwQAw&biw=1920&bih=937

Similar to the Myford story, eventually stopped production in the 90's? at least in the smaller hobby sizes. I think there is still a European Emco entity but all high end industrial machines. There used to be  Yahoo group dedicated to the euro Enco  machines & even a decade or so there was much talk of parts cannibalization or re-creation to keep the oldies going. Not to be confused with EMCO lathes which were Asian, typically from Taiwan at the time sold under different labels. But AFAIK look a bit more like current conventional hobby lathes & not sure really? if there was an attempt to copy or model themselves after Emco style. I don't recall seeing to many with integral mill head pillar. Some liked the milling attachment, others not.


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## PeterT (Feb 7, 2020)

What Dabbler was mentioning = EMCO Maximat Super 11


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## Tom Kitta (Feb 7, 2020)

http://www.lathes.co.uk/emco/page4.html is not a small desktop machine - it is small but in the BB class of 13x24 machine size wise (https://www.busybeetools.com/products/metal-lathe-600mm-with-stand.html). I agree one in great shape for just $1000 would be a smoking deal. Does OP have space for it? I.e. can we go a bit bigger footprint then 7x lathe? Is there a price restriction?


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## whirlwynds (Feb 12, 2020)

Thank you all for the replies. I ended up finding a Busy Bee CX704 lathe and CX612 mill at an estate sale and got both. I had been comparing to the Emco Compact 5 and the LMS 5100. I am really only looking for a 7x lathe, not anything bigger. I like the quality of the Austrian-made Emco, but am a little worried about finding replacement parts and like the large ecosystem of parts for the 7x Chinese lathes. The CX704 is probably OK for my needs as a first lathe - I was close to a deal on a LMS 5100 but the seller and I couldn't reach an agreement on price. Too bad, as it seems a nicer machine. For now the plan is to just learn on what I have and upgrade if the need arises.


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## Marc Moreau (Feb 12, 2020)

You gone like it if you put to much pressure on it the motor stop. You put the switch on and it start again. The gear is in plastic but it work just respect it.  I have my 12x30 Ultilathe fot big job but for small part the CX 704  work nice. Small wrench for car and 3/4 ratchet for 10 wheels truck.


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## YYCHM (Feb 12, 2020)

CX612 eh..... Read these.

https://canadianhobbymetalworkers.com/threads/cx605-down-feed-tune-up.1281/

https://canadianhobbymetalworkers.com/threads/my-mini-machine-upgrades.439/

https://canadianhobbymetalworkers.com/threads/mini-mill-crash-and-burn.1368/

https://canadianhobbymetalworkers.com/threads/mini-mill-drss.1405/


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## YYCHM (Feb 14, 2020)

And these....

https://canadianhobbymetalworkers.com/threads/rotary-table-for-craftex-cx605.1140/

https://canadianhobbymetalworkers.com/threads/rotary-table-chuck-adapter-plate.1323/

https://canadianhobbymetalworkers.com/threads/4-soba-rotarty-table-for-sale.1603/


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## whirlwynds (Mar 2, 2020)

Thanks for sharing the links. I'm happy to say I've completed a few projects and so far am happy with the machines. I am using them for violin bow and musical instrument related tasks, so perhaps I am working more within the limits of their capabilities. I do have to admit, I was at the woodworking convention a few weeks ago and saw the "premium" tools up close next to the "cheap" tools, and if I hadn't found these used I probably would have passed in favour of something else.


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