# El-Cheapo tail stock to go with my indexer



## John Conroy (Nov 8, 2015)

I stole the idea for this tailstock from another forum and made a few changes in the plans. I wanted to build it all from scrap parts but I had to buy a length of 2" round aluminum from the "drops" bin at Metal Supermarket.
I don't have any pictures of the machine work in progress, just the finished parts.

I mounted the 2" round aluminum in my 4 jaw chuck and bored the hole off-center for the tailstock spindle and the stud for the adjuster nut. Then I milled 2 flat sides on it and split one end with a slitting saw mounted in the mill and drilled a couple of 5/16" holes for the through bolts. I milled a flat on the bottom side and drilled and tapped a hole intersecting the spindle bore for a depth stop screw. I turned the spindle from 3/4" CRS with a taper on one end and a slot for the adjuster nut on the other. Then I milled a slot for the travel stop screw into the spindle. I drilled and tapped a hole in the split end for a pinch bolt.




















The scrap metal for the sides and bottom was purchased by the pound from a scrap metal dealer who empties the metal bin where I used to work. You may recognise the source, all 3 of the pieces were rough cut from the same part with my band saw then machined on the mill. After the 3 parts were machined they were clamped together and the holes were drilled for the through bolts. The flat side were done with my shop built flycutter and the rest was done with a 2" indexable end mill or a 1/2" end mill.

























The adjuster nut was made from a piece of 1-1/4" CRS with a 3/8" threaded hole and a knurled OD as well as a slot to match the one in the spindle so it pulls or pushes the spindle.



















The sides and bottom were bolted together and the bottom was milled flat with them assembled.



















The spindle body it adjustable for height and there is also a pic of the tailstock in use before I finish machined the outer part of the side pieces.


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## Alexander (Nov 9, 2015)

That footstock is preety nice buddy.I'll probably make one my self one of these days. I like the design, It is really simple


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## Olivier Rioux (Feb 28, 2017)

Awesome work I am collecting the parts to make one myself ,  I would be very thankful if you could give me some measurement ?   I got to know this forum by searching  :   |tailstock build| on google image when I saw this one I found it simple and strougly made, then I looked at your other project going on John you are a really talented machinist I enjoyed lookin at your motorcycle build .


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## PeterT (Feb 28, 2017)

Nice work John.
One question - is there a feature in your assembly that helps preserve the dead center arbor staying positioned in a horizontal plane after you have adjusted it up or down, or how do you dial that aspect in?


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## John Conroy (Feb 28, 2017)

Thanks Oliver, I am away from home on business this week but I will post measurements when I get home.

Peter, there is nothing to keep the horizontal arbor level. I just use a digital level if I want it perfectly level.


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## Dabbler (Mar 1, 2017)

looks great!


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## Olivier Rioux (Mar 1, 2017)

Alright thanks alot!


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## Janger (Mar 5, 2017)

ah I see. The sides are beveled because of the origin of the sides? (hint last picture everyone). I thought you were deliberately bevelling them and I was going to ask why. I do have another question, why does there appear to be a milled flat on the spindle? 2nd last picture. Of course I have another q too - you briefly said you bored out the barrel for the spindle. Did you drill holes and then finish with boring? Or ream the hole? Given your barrel can compress to lock the spindle is the boring dimension not that critical? I was surprised at how accurate the barrel on my tailstock is - and I was wondering how this could be bored so accurately - perhaps it is actually reamed?

I learned a lot looking at these pictures John Thank you for posting them.


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## John Conroy (Mar 5, 2017)

Yes the sides are tapered due to source of the steel I used. I drilled the holes for the spindle and only had to bore the last .020" and it came out very straight but you are right, it was not really critical because the pinch bolt arrangement allows no movement when tightened. As for the milled flat on the spindle, do you mean the one at the tip? I use that so I can mill very close to the end of the supported shaft. It is less than half the thickness of the spindle so it works well with a small pilot hole.


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## Dabbler (Mar 5, 2017)

Commercial (adjustable) ones have a flat milled to help set the height of the spindle.


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## Alexander (Mar 6, 2017)

John Conroy said:


> Yes the sides are tapered due to source of the steel I used


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## John Conroy (Mar 6, 2017)

I don't know where the scrap metal dealer got them from but I decided to mill the logo off.


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## Alexander (Mar 6, 2017)

100% chance that company doesent care. In AB you are never more than 1 mile away from old railway junk.


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## Janger (Mar 6, 2017)

I still don't understand why those plates are tapered.


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## John Conroy (Mar 6, 2017)

There is no good reason except that was the shape of the scrap plate material I started with. I bought 4 of those railway track brackets for $12, they weigh about 15 lbs each. The tail stock is made from 1/2 of one of them.


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## PeterT (Mar 6, 2017)

You put a lot of thought & work into that, John I'm impressed. Particularly boring that long hole for the arbor & multitude of slots & fits.

You got me thinking about resurrecting my hair brained 'offset' tailstock idea for my lathe. I figure because they aren't commercially available there must be a good reason!  ha-ha. Seems like I'm always wrestling with my compound limiting or conflicting with the tailstock. Or I have to extend the quill so far out for clearance, its loses rigidity anyway. This isn't to scale, just intended to show general idea & rough out dimensions. I'd beef it up & incorporate some of your nice adjustability features.


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## Alexander (Oct 15, 2017)

@John Conroy hey man your photos disappeared. Any chance you can take a picture of it for us again?i have been thinking about this Footstock it is a great design


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## John Conroy (Oct 16, 2017)

Here's a link to a photo gallery of the tailstock project. One of the pictures is the one I used to model mine after, I'm not sure where it came from. Dimensions should be made to fit your needs.

https://johnconroy.smugmug.com/fram...transition=fade&transitionSpeed=2&clickable=1


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## Alexander (Oct 16, 2017)

Oh the link doesent work for me. I just see one bolt


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## John Conroy (Oct 17, 2017)

If you click on the first picture of that screw it should open the gallery.


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## Alexander (Oct 17, 2017)

Oh thanks your right. That works


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## Janger (Jan 29, 2019)

Hi @johnconroy John
I've been studying your design - I'm thinking about making one too. I notice yours is perhaps 2.5" wide. Has that proven to be wide enough? Any tendency to rock? I always overbuild. 

I see there is a pocket in the side rails at the bottom - was that already in the source stock?

Did you harden the center or is it just as is? 

Thanks John, Nice photos.


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## John Conroy (Jan 29, 2019)

It gets clamped down to the mill table and the side plates taper from 1/2" thick at the top to more than 3/4" thick at the bottom. The pieces are bolted together at the bottom with three 5/16" bolts and 4 at the top so there is no flex or tipping possible. The source of the steel was old railway track plates that hold the rails to the ties (like in the attached picture). I bought 3 of them from a scrap dealer. The square holes were in them for spikes to pass through. I didn't harden the center but nothing turns against it so I didn't think it necessary.






This is the design I used as a template.


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## kevin.decelles (Jan 30, 2019)

My dividing head and rotary table each came with a tailstock, I said to @Janger that i would post picks for general dimensions 

This one is from the rotary table (busy bee)





























And this one came with the shars dividing head
























Overall I like the castings on the first and the mechanism for the centre adjust on the second 





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Janger (Jan 31, 2019)

Thanks for posting those pictures. One the second tail stock/foot stock Kevin - is the quill threaded inside the block? and at the left end there is a bolt at the quill axis - does that go into a keyway on the quill?


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## PeterT (Jan 31, 2019)

Is this an optical illusion of is the point non-concentric by design?


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## kevin.decelles (Jan 31, 2019)

Not an illusion, that's how it is


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## kevin.decelles (Feb 2, 2019)

Some pictures of the quills removed

Tailstock that had threaded quill (from shars dividing head)



















Quill from bb rotary table. 

























Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## RobinHood (Feb 2, 2019)

Some very good designs here. Anyone should serve the user well.


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## PeterT (Feb 2, 2019)

Why is the dead center point at an elevated axis that the middle? Maybe allows machining on the end of the part without interfering with the cone? (kind of like those slim nose cnc live centers?). Inquiring minds need to know!


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## Janger (Feb 2, 2019)

@kevin.decelles There is some subtle magic on the Shars quill.  I like that design. I don't quite follow how the nut handle moves the quill back and forth. Turning the knob would just move the threaded bolt/nut part in and out of the quill unless it is held in place somehow? The BB one has that notch which pushes the quill back and forth with the nut rotation. I don't see how that works on the shars one?


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## Janger (Feb 4, 2019)

My own progress. Hope you don’t mind John that I’m adding to this thread.


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## Johnwa (Feb 5, 2019)

I think Kevin has the tailstocks mislabeled.  The busybee one has the threaded spindle. I found this exploded diagram on Grizzly that show how it works
https://cdn0.grizzly.com/partslists/t25937_pl.pdf


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## Janger (Feb 5, 2019)

Interesting diagram Johnwa - seems to show more detail. Thanks for locating this. It's still a little hazy to me how the quill action works.

Part 60 & 61 have to be held in place in line with the quill to push/pull the quill. That could be done 3 ways maybe. With A) set screw 55 sliding into the groove on 61, B) with a roll pin Kevin mentioned in the end of the holder - two small holes circled - pin going into the groove on 61, or C) with set screw 52 somehow but I think that just holds the knob 25 on to 60/61.


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## kevin.decelles (Feb 5, 2019)

@Johnwa Correct sir -- I have them reversed -- Shars tailstock did not have the threaded quill.


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## YYCHM (Apr 20, 2019)

How does one cut the pinch slot in the dead center carrier?






That will be my next operation once my mill is up and running again.

John, how did you do it?  My experience with a slitting saw on my mini mill was less than favorable.


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## John Conroy (Apr 20, 2019)

I used a slitting saw. Low rpm and WD40 as lube.


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## YYCHM (Apr 20, 2019)

John Conroy said:


> I used a slitting saw. Low rpm and WD40 as lube.



Darn….. I was afraid you were going to say that.  I'm going to attempt it using the band saw in the vertical.

Is there a rule of thumb as to how deep to make the pinch slot?


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## John Conroy (Apr 20, 2019)

A bandsaw would probably work fine


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## historicalarms (Apr 21, 2019)

years ago I had to cut the same type of slot in some pipe and the bandsaw worked fine (the same kind as the one as you just bought)  I bolted an ordinary drill press vise crosswise to a flat bar and then bolted the whole jig to the bandsaw deck so that a pinched pipe that I wanted to slice was centered at the blade track. I could pinch the workpiece at the same angle as the blade frame came down at so that it could cut completely through the top without marking up the inside bore on the bottom.


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## PeterT (Apr 21, 2019)

I've used a bandsaw for slits too. Its worth mounting a makeshift fence so you can stabilize the cut. If the piece is irregular you can mount it to scrap like even a piece of plywood & use that edge along the fence. The bandsaw kerf width is you get what you get. Also wear gloves if you are hand feeding because a) things can get hot b) those chips can get into your skin.


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## YYCHM (Apr 27, 2019)

After having my mill down for a good week and a half due to a toasted gear, I finally got my RT tail/foot stock project back on track.






Using my band saw in the vertical to cut the pinch slot went well.  I was surprised how much pressure I had to exert on the work piece in order to get the cut to progress.  In any event I still have all my fingers which is good.

Now I'm appreciating why John made his dead center carrier out of aluminum.






The pinch slot has no effect.  If I put a snipe on that key I'll be pulling my vise off the bench.  That or break something.


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## PeterT (Apr 27, 2019)

I ran into a similar issue on a clamping part. Metal is surprising strong, go figure. I've noticed commercial parts either have 
- a stress relief hole (which thins the metal near the hinge point)
- they orient the slit to accomplish the same
- an opposing slit, leaving some magic amount of metal so it doesn't crack

Superimposed on your part might look something like this, although I wouldn't muck up your part without some experimenting on scrap.


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## YYCHM (Apr 27, 2019)

oooooops.  This ain't gonna work.






Guess I'll have to make a mounting plate for the RT.  Best do that before deciding how high to make the tail/foot stock mount.

Will the fun ever end


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## YYCHM (Apr 28, 2019)

A few days off and a blizzard, how opportune is that!  Finally got her done.





















Looks like something concocted in Bubba's garage LOL.

The stand is just high enough (and a smidge more) for my RT.  I'll probably re-do it with a larger piece of angle iron some day.  The pinch bolt has no effect.  Part of that problem is the fact that the bolt I'm using is threaded to the head and the head threads are engaging the non-threaded hole (drill it bigger or get a bolt with a non-threaded head shank?).  In any event I tried squishing the dead center carrier in my vise with no effect so it's obvious some sort of relief slot or hole is in order.

I keep looking at this RT and thinking lathe indexer...…. How to couple the two?


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