# Cincinnati No 2 Cutter Grinder Restoration



## Brent H (Jun 1, 2020)

So back in February, when Covid was just a buzz word I bought a (Approx) 1935 to 1940 Cincinnati No 2 Tool Grinder/Sharpener from a sharpening service that was closing its doors.  I picked it up for $500 including a bunch of accessories, grinding wheels and some other odds and sods.  I have been slowly working on it along with other things.  This machine is one of those - built like a tank - items and every piece, including the smallest screw must weigh at least several pounds.  I was able to download and find most of the original manuals and accessories pictures - parts are scarce, but I am making most of them so it is not as problematic as much as it takes time.

The machine is capable of just about every sharpening function you could imagine from 10" saw blades to 1/8" end mills.  It will let you sharpen most cutter tools if you have the right jig.  I have most of them except for a radius accessory and the planer knife holder.  @Chicken lights may be able to pick up a few parts I have in the US that will do all the small end mils and another jig that will hold and properly grind saw blades. 

The beast was loaded at the sharpening place using a fork truck and was removed from the trailer and loaded into my garage using another fork lift.  On the way home the unit crushed a solid oak pallet and tilted sideways when I got caught in a kilometre stretch of  road construction - just a bit of panic and cursing the Toronto area for its wonderful roads.

The grinder unit is listed at 2050 lbs plain - not entirely sure what "plain" means but it is heavy considering there are only 4 main parts.  The grinder is built to absorb vibrations and keep the wheels cutting true.  As I was reading about this type of machine it "appears" to be the best thing for sharpening tools and most large shops will have one or two of this type sharpener set up for some sharpening activity - by shops I mean a large sharpening facility or tool fabrication facility - CNC has pretty much turned sharpening into a past practice and disposable/recyclable  cutters are more in use.

The Cincinnati will also surface grind (most say it is just "ok to adequate" but I had nothing before so........) and it will also grind cylindrical items as well - I have a few attachments for that purpose.

Pictures of the start of things:





















The first task was to pull apart the top and see what sort of repairs were needed.  I found I will be making new shafts and putting in new bushings as needed.  The only missing things were two gears in the front handle.  The front handle has the ability to engage a planetary gear arrangement that will slow feed the table as you crank verses using the back handles.  The back handles are direct drive and I tell you the table can boogie - very fast left to right as it rides on ball bearings.  I would also be doing a bit of cast iron welding to fix a few accessories.

Here is the ball bearing system exposed (not x rated but there are a lot of balls......) hahaha






The balls are 3/4" and there are 20 a side.  They ride in a brass cage and on hardened ways/  Nothing appeared worn.

I removed the saddle assembly and found that the lead screw nut was badly worn - it was cast iron and pretty much nothing left for solid grip.






But, I am getting better at the internal left hand ACME thread so what the heck - mill it out and insert a bronze threaded bush 

It only took about 0.020" and the original threads were gone.  I was in the process of making the left hand nut for the lead screw (this screw moves the saddle in and out) when I suffered my gear failure on the Utilathe - other restoration project ...LOL.....

Anyway - after setting up on a different lathe at work I finished the nut.


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## Brent H (Jun 1, 2020)

The accessories for the grinder all got pulled apart and I found that the indexing head had been poorly repaired by brazing ad was failing.  I went at it with the special high nickle wire.  I was also dissolving the paint off of components and spraying some industrial coatings.



























The other items were getting painted:











There was an overhaul on the indexing head and the motor and head for the rotary grinding attachment:











I then started on the shafts and the main saddle..........


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## Brent H (Jun 1, 2020)

The shafts and bushings were all pretty worn and I found a few parts in the wrong place (like dials) and a few poorly adjusted bearings.

The shafts came out great and are made from 4140.  


























In the above picture the old shaft is in the front.  Notice there are three groves (should only be 2) and you can see the stepped wear at each end.

There are two of these shafts and they are the speed feeds on the back of the machine. You can lock them to freeze the table (the result of the third grove) and dis-engage them if required - a ball bearing clicks in the two slots for in and out position.  I found several screws missing, balls missing and the springs also missing...waiting on some amazon orders.....

Shafts assembled:






New  50 taper draw bar::






New thumb screws for the calibrated dials:






I think the brass looks nicer than the cheap thumb thing in the forefront - LOL

Redid the hand wheels:






And it continues.........


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## Chicken lights (Jun 1, 2020)

I’m gonna try to scoot by Kentucky Wednesday for your parts, assuming all goes well they’ll be in Ontario by Friday


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## Brent H (Jun 1, 2020)

@Chicken lights - I will be feeding you up right good when I see you next!!!!!    Woo hoo!


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## Chicken lights (Jun 1, 2020)

Brent H said:


> @Chicken lights - I will be feeding you up right good when I see you next!!!!!    Woo hoo!


Wait...I gotta deliver this stuff too? I’m not UPS/Purolator  

But then I get your wife’s/family cooking....

Seems legit!


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## Brent H (Jun 2, 2020)

@Chicken lights  I will scoot down and pick things up -  no problem - whatever is easiet!!


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## Tom Kitta (Jun 2, 2020)

This looks almost identical to what I have. For a 500 you got excellent deal - you can turn around and with extra accessories sell it for at least 3x that.

Mine came without much of an accessories except small 3 way vise and modified mechanism you have there brazed - but with a lathe QCT holder welded to one end.

I take some pictures and you will see that the table casting at least its back is identical same with some wheels and even placement. 

Even paint color is the same, light gray. I just started to look into the machine this weekend.


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## Brent H (Jun 2, 2020)

Hey @Tom Kitta , 

That is cool!  I have the three way vise - it was fitted with a crappy tire vise but it seemed to work - I will make a new vise for it later on.  The work head I have for it has a 50 taper on one end and what is I think a Brown and Sharp #12 - I have a taper adapter that changes that to a #3 Morse.  

I guess a list is easiest:

1.  Indexed work head 50 taper and 12 B&S
2. 50 tapers: #4 MT, #5 MT, OZ40 Collet (1/4 and 1/2"), 1" mandrel, 1/2" mandrel
3. 12 B&S to #3MT
4. Cylindrical grinding attachment with #3MT end and 2 mandrels (will be adding a 4 jaw chuck if it works well)
5. Left hand and right hand tails stocks
6. slitting saw sharpening accessory
other odds and sods and indexing tools.

If your Cincinnati has the open front then it is probably exactly like mine.  They changed that in the 1940's and I think the grinding head was able to tilt on the next version.

I ran into a bit of a snag with the bushing replacement.   The fast speed handle shafts have bronze bushings that are 7/8" OD and an 11/16 ID.   I bought some Princess Auto 5/8 x 7/8 bushings and was hoping to just machine out that 1/16" but the "cintered" type bushing just cracked and would not work, so I wait on some bronze. 

I did some additional welding on the one spring loaded tail stock to repair a good grind into a part that supports some wiper felts.  After paint I will grind a bit of weld back on the inside to make sure the wiper fits:






various stages of welding:





















I didn't push it too much after that and the center still fit fine so I will hit it with the paint tomorrow.

@Tom Kitta If you want any pics of things let me know  - I would be interested to see your machine as well


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## Tom Kitta (Jun 3, 2020)

Yes it is British. But look at similarities especially the back. Head moves with the column round and up and down with the help of the wheel on the left near power switch. Right front wheel moves side to side and left front wheel moves table back and forth.








I have this accessory with welded lathe tool holder on one end. The base looks identical to what you have - it has one corner broken off. 











Side and back view. I have two things on my spindle - one is super short and the other looks like tapered holder - at least this one can reach the table. You can also see tiny 3 way vise. Wheel on the back duplicates left - right wheel from the front. There is also one quick movement wheel - same function as two quick movement ones on cincinati - same identical shape. 

Unfortunately there are no more accessories. I tried to buy one with more accessories but they were expensive - one like this one but with addition of powered head went for 1800 with fees. I paid 720 for mine, 800 with gas $ for Edmonton. 

Motor transfers power to the work-head via ribbed belt like in a car - interestingly it was easy to get a replacement.


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## Brent H (Jun 3, 2020)

@Tom Kitta - looks very cool - maybe a bit smaller than the one I have which would have been preferable - alas - LOL -   They have various spindle extenders that thread onto the short taper to push the wheels out further.    Mine has one long extension and a short one.  The shorter one can be fit with the cup wheels to reach the table with the other arm long enough for say a surfacing wheel.  




my belt is 85” flat - I have a new one but it was expensive ($180)  but I should never have to buy another.  

today I painted the majority of the parts to be re-fitted like the table, rotating table etc.  





today was a bunch of work - but so cool I machined in the Woodruff key slots for the fine adjustment shaft.  









Tomorrow I should have some shots of putting the table top back on etc.  


looking at your pics again @Tom Kitta  you should be good running the cup wheels on the short side.  There would normally be a big rubber bellows covering the big centre shaft.   Very cool looking machine!


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## Dabbler (Jun 3, 2020)

@Brent H @Tom Kitta what nice machines!  you guys are going to be in bliss using them!


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## Chicken lights (Jun 4, 2020)




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## Brent H (Jun 4, 2020)

@Chicken lights - You are awesome!!!!!


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## Brent H (Jun 4, 2020)

@Tom Kitta keep your eyes peeled for an end mill sharpener as lots of things will fit these machines - they were pretty much the most copied tooling out there.  If you needed/wanted one particular thing what would it be?  I will keep looking here - there is a fellow about 1 hour away that routinely sells off parts for these type machines.


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## Dabbler (Jun 4, 2020)

Hey @Brent H   I have a Keller T&D grinder, so any accessories Tom doesn't need, I might be able to use!  It isn't quite a versatile as a Universal unit, but does all the same things.


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## Tom Kitta (Jun 4, 2020)

I only have 2 other accessories that I bough long time ago for the surface grinder. One is an air bearing end mill sharpener and the other is a grizzly front teeth end mill sharpener. I guess I could also use on it little drill sharpening attachment (one patented 100 years ago or so to be used on side of grinder wheel). I would benefit thus from almost any extra equipment. 

I should also look more into using and learning how to use what limited stuff I have.


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## Brent H (Jun 4, 2020)

@Tom Kitta if you have the air bearing end mill sharpening holder you are off to the races.  @Chicken lights has picked up one I bought in the US many months ago along with the saw sharpening attachment for the unit.  @Dabbler I will keep eyes open for stuff.  Now that  I know what a lot of it looks like it is easier to sort out.  

Today was a fast day as I was helping my young lad shoot a video on using a drill press for his shop class - but I also got things going together on the Cincinnati.  

First was to make a bushing for the fine table angle adjustment.  It went pretty quick.  I used brass instead of bronze as I only had the brass on hand.









I put the table on as well as the angle table and then put the painted parts together.  This is the parts for the machine still in the shop: 









Here is the assembled stuff so far.  I still need to haul the beast out for a skirt painting.   Some bushing need to be made and the slow speed handle assembly will take some time.   My gear cutters for that project just arrived yesterday.


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## Chicken lights (Jun 4, 2020)

Brent H said:


> @Tom Kitta if you have the air bearing end mill sharpening holder you are off to the races.  @Chicken lights has picked up one I bought in the US many months ago along with the saw sharpening attachment for the unit.  @Dabbler I will keep eyes open for stuff.  Now that  I know what a lot of it looks like it is easier to sort out.
> 
> Today was a fast day as I was helping my young lad shoot a video on using a drill press for his shop class - but I also got things going together on the Cincinnati.
> 
> ...


There are three boxes with your name on them in Ontario as we speak.
Getting closer....


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## Brent H (Jul 12, 2020)

The project continues: Installed new bushings to go with the new shafts I made for the fast table handles.  Things are running smooth.  I am in the process of making a new slow speed gear box for the machine as it was missing some parts.  I made the outer bearing shaft yesterday and it didn’t take long.
Here is the old/new shaft pics.  








Note the wear on the old shaft.  New shaft is 5/8” cold rolled.  There is/will be a bronze bushing on the shaft. The slot is for oil to get to the bearing.  

here it is installed - a press fit back into the housing.  





I have some math to work out and 2 gear blanks to make and a few other odd and aids and the machine will be back to 100%.


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## Brent H (Jan 4, 2021)

Great day making gears today.  Spent yesterday making blanks and cursing the failed broach fiasco and then came today!!!

cutting gears to replace the missing parts in my tool grinder.  The slow feed in my model was supposed to have helical gears - hard to make, so I made spur gears as would have been the way of the 1930’s models.  Since they didn’t change the casting for the handle I could revert to the old gearing.
I made a new stationary gear shaft from 1-1/2” 4140 with bushing pressed into either end to support a 3/4” shaft that drives a bronze gear.  This gear moves the rack back an forth while grinding.    This shaft received 19 gear teeth.  14DP - 14.5° PA.  



Then I machined the broached blank with 20 Teeth - all same cutter so set up was quick and easy.  




I then cut the spool with 18 Teeth on one end and 17 teeth the other. 




Then we had some assembly time:





The smaller gears are Cast Iron.
I lubbed up everything with some assembly grease and put it on the machine.




Works like a charm!!





You push in the centre shaft to engage the slow gear and it rotates on the bigger shaft to reduce the feed speed - I forget the amount sorta 4-1 type thing.  
I would like to make a new bronze drive gear for this machine but having trouble finding a 12 DP -20°PA cutter.   Most are the 14.5°.  
Anyway - new belt to install and hook up the VFD and should be good to start wrecking end mills very soon!!


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## Chipper5783 (Jan 4, 2021)

Very nice write up.  Thank you.  I've not touched my Cinci #2 in a couple years (so many other projects).  I have tuned up the side flutes on about half dozen end mills (the air bearing end mill holders is incredibly smooth).  I have not sorted out sharpening the end teeth of the EM - let me know when you get that sorted.


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## Brent H (Jan 4, 2021)

Nice looking machine @Chipper5783 !  I have a few different attachments so I will post my success and failures for sure!!


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## Payner (Sep 22, 2021)

Brent . Great looking job , I will watch as you finish up .
Bill


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## Brent H (Sep 24, 2021)

@Tom Kitta and @Dabbler :

I found this you tube video today: 




There is also a few others for doing the helical edges.

I am looking for any Oz40 collets or Weldon adaptor sleeves if anyone has any of those out there?  

If things go well I may be doing some sharpening sooner than later  - just need to get home....


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## RobinHood (Sep 24, 2021)

I think I have some orphan OZ collets. Not sure if they are OZ 40. I will check.


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## Brent H (Sep 24, 2021)

@RobinHood - that would be great. I have 1/4” and I think 3/4” for the sharpening head.  I have been looking for a few more and then I can start doing some sharpening.  My Weldon sharpening jig will be getting some tune up as well - that would be the helical part of the sharpener


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## Mcgyver (Sep 25, 2021)

looking good...a super useful addition to the shop!


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## RobinHood (Sep 25, 2021)

So I checked. They are OZ25s made in Germany, not the 40s you are looking for. I also have a MT3 & a MT4 collet holder for them. Not sure if that would help you any.


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## YYCHM (Sep 25, 2021)

RobinHood said:


> So I checked. They are OZ25s made in Germany, not the 40s you are looking for. I also have a MT3 & a MT4 collet holder for them. Not sure if that would help you any.



Hmmm... are the holders threaded for a draw bar?  What size are the collets?  I might be interested.


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## RobinHood (Sep 25, 2021)

The MT3 holder (top left) only has a tang. The MT4 uses a 5/8-11 thread. There is only one nut for both holders and no key.

The collet sizes are: 1/8, 1/4, 5/16, 1/2, 5/8, 3/4, 7/8 and 1”. They are Made in Germany by Ortlieb, sold by KAR here in Canada.


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## Brent H (Sep 26, 2021)

@RobinHood :I will PM you on the units.  I have a 50 taper To MT4 and MT3 that fits the head of the main grinder holder.  Your selection should be good for any end mills I have as well I have the fill in sizes of oz 25


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