# Farmer Porn



## Susquatch (Jun 18, 2022)

Finally finished my taxes and taking a little time to stop and smell the roses.

Got my crops in a bit late this year but the corn is looking GREAT! Thought you folks might appreciate a little Farmer Porn - aka nice rows of corn! Guaranteed to get any farmer all excited!






My rows are not as straight as the best farmers, but I'm proud of it anyway. I built myself an RTK 1cm precision GPS System back before I joined the forum. It would have been an interesting project to share. But I have no autosteer so I don't use it for planting - only for fertilizing, spraying, and working dirt. Otherwise those corn rows would be precision aligned to be perfectly parallel to my laneway. Approximately the same precision as a tenth of a thou over the length of a 10" bar..... LOL!


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## LenVW (Jun 19, 2022)

Looking good !!
Is autosteer accurate enough for scuffling and applying anhydrous ammonia ?
What are planting NRK, Pioneer, Dekalb ?


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## Susquatch (Jun 19, 2022)

LenVW said:


> Looking good !!
> Is autosteer accurate enough for scuffling and applying anhydrous ammonia ?
> What are planting NRK, Pioneer, Dekalb ?



That's Pioneer Seed. 

Yes, Auto Steer based on an RTK GPS signal is plenty accurate enough for scuffling and post fertilizing. RTK is the best GPS Positioning there is for real time use. I built two units. There is a base unit up at the house that knows exactly where it is. It compares its gps signal to its known position and then sends that correction to the mobile unit by radio so it can correct its own signal by the same amount. The result is 1cm precision. It is possible to further correct that signal with post processing for other applications, but that doesn't help much in real time applications. 

Anyway, what the picture shows is what Susquatch did with his eyes and hands. It's not nearly as good as what autosteer and RTK gps can do but it's mine. Kinda like making a complicated part without CNC.


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## Chicken lights (Jun 19, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> That's Pioneer Seed.
> 
> Yes, Auto Steer based on an RTK GPS signal is plenty accurate enough for scuffling and post fertilizing. RTK is the best GPS Positioning there is for real time use. I built two units. There is a base unit up at the house that knows exactly where it is. It compares its gps signal to its known position and then sends that correction to the mobile unit by radio so it can correct its own signal by the same amount. The result is 1cm precision. It is possible to further correct that signal with post processing for other applications, but that doesn't help much in real time applications.
> 
> Anyway, what the picture shows is what Susquatch did with his eyes and hands. It's not nearly as good as what autosteer and RTK gps can do but it's mine. Kinda like making a complicated part without CNC.


It only has to be straighter than the neighbours.....


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## LenVW (Jun 19, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> That's Pioneer Seed.
> 
> Yes, Auto Steer based on an RTK GPS signal is plenty accurate enough for scuffling and post fertilizing. RTK is the best GPS Positioning there is for real time use. I built two units. There is a base unit up at the house that knows exactly where it is. It compares its gps signal to its known position and then sends that correction to the mobile unit by radio so it can correct its own signal by the same amount. The result is 1cm precision. It is possible to further correct that signal with post processing for other applications, but that doesn't help much in real time applications.
> 
> Anyway, what the picture shows is what Susquatch did with his eyes and hands. It's not nearly as good as what autosteer and RTK gps can do but it's mine. Kinda like making a complicated part without CNC.


I have to talk to my ‘farmer‘ brother, who lives near Bayfield, to stay up to date on the corn brands and agricultural technology. I am sure the tools have made long days on the tractor much more bearable.
My father was the biggest DEKALB dealer in SW Ontario in the 1980s.


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## Susquatch (Jun 19, 2022)

Chicken lights said:


> It only has to be straighter than the neighbours.....



I love your insights! 

Ya, and exactly there is my problem. The guy who farms the place next to me has gps planting with rows straighter than a lathe alignment bar...... 

But for $30 grand, I can deal with human precision.


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## Susquatch (Jun 19, 2022)

LenVW said:


> I have to talk to my ‘farmer‘ brother, who lives near Bayfield, to stay up to date on the corn brands and agricultural technology. I am sure the tools have made long days on the tractor much more bearable.
> My father was the biggest DEKALB dealer in SW Ontario in the 1980s.



In my opinion, the complexity increase is just more opportunity for things to go wrong..... I just don't like it when the guy in the combine is bitching about my crooked rows. It's kinda like a poor finish on that part you turned for the brother in law...... It's a pride thing.


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## LenVW (Jun 19, 2022)

When I was on the farm in Huron County, the ‘side hills‘ were so bad we were running duals on the tractors so that we did not roll them while cultivating. I can remember compensating a row because the plater would wander 24” off the marker line. 
LOL
Manual override was required for in field conditions.


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## Degen (Jun 19, 2022)

When I was in Univ, Surveying was part of the course.  At the time civilian GPS was still being scrambled, commercial GPS access was too expensive and Military access, enough said.

The work around for surveying our properties was simple.  Take a known point record the location in UTM format, measure your locations and re-measure your initial location.  Most times only one time standard is drifting resulting in linear shifts.  Now based on your time frame you can add corrections to your points within a cm in open areas.

Marine Loran and Framing RTK use the same system because its a real time correction.

The only draw back is the further you get from the accurate location slowly degrades as the shift changes with distance.

Now there is an article about 25yrs ago that you can pigback the Military GPS signal, though not decode it.  All you are looking for is the time shift difference in the signal and with that you can calculate the correction in that Satellite adding the precision to the GPS.

Currently to my knowledge Civilian GPS is no longer drifted, but that may change given current state of world affairs.


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## LenVW (Jun 19, 2022)

I will ask at our next KWRAA meeting about the GPS drift.
Our president keeps the club updated as to per Canadian Aviation Regs.


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## Degen (Jun 19, 2022)

Basically how they drift it is drifting the time clock signal (not the actual clock) slightly intentionally.  The precision comes from how many decimal places they use for the clock signal.  Civilian, commercial, military.

Other things that effect accuracy is multipath signals (ie reflected signals) that change the apparent distance.  This is why your accuracy changes with tree cover or in around tall buildings in a car GPS.

How GPS signals are also degrades is radio noise (intentional or un-intentional) that distorts the clock message (among other methods).


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## Susquatch (Jun 19, 2022)

Degen said:


> Currently to my knowledge Civilian GPS is no longer drifted, but that may change given current state of world affairs.



No need to ask @LenVW .

The military deliberate drifting was removed by Bill Clinton on my birthday many decades ago. It has not been deliberately drifted ever since. 

But @Degen is correct. There are many other sources of error. A single reading is still time precision limited by such things as the antenna, reflections, etc etc etc. It's plenty good enough for navigation purposes though. In fact, with a decent antenna, position can be determined within a meter without any correction at all. 

RTK (Real Time Kinetic) was developed to further improve all those errors. It uses a known position base station to determine the signal and time shift errors and send a correction to a rover unit. And yes, distance introduces another error. But since I built my own base station right on the farm, distance degradation is not an issue. I get real time exact location within a centimeter.


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## Degen (Jun 19, 2022)

It has been drifted on a few occasions 911, and a couple other occasions when the threat level was high.


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## Susquatch (Jun 19, 2022)

Degen said:


> It has been drifted on a few occasions 911, and a couple other occasions when the threat level was high.



Didn't know that. I thought the current generation of satellites didn't even have the capability to have deliberate error. Are you sure of that? The simple fact is that it wouldn't matter to any corrected system though so if they did do that, it's kind of a waste of effort if you ask me.


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## historicalarms (Jun 19, 2022)

I prefer a steering wheel...it will turn equally well in both directions every time.


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## Chicken lights (Jun 19, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> In my opinion, the complexity increase is just more opportunity for things to go wrong..... I just don't like it when the guy in the combine is bitching about my crooked rows. It's kinda like a poor finish on that part you turned for the brother in law...... It's a pride thing.


We held the same feelings for our stumps, when I was logging. It won’t mean much to many people but we took pride in both how we left the bush looking overall, and how low and clean the stumps were left. Plus, if we did a good job cutting, there was a better quality butt log. It arguably didn’t put any more money in our pocket, but the company kept a good name, so in a long term way it kept us employed. So I get wanting straight rows, most people driving by won’t care but the neighbours judge, gotta have something to talk about in a small town LOL


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## Susquatch (Jun 19, 2022)

historicalarms said:


> I prefer a steering wheel...it will turn equally well in both directions every time.



Ya, I'm on the same page. I'd like straighter rows. But.....

In my opinion, the only thing more untrustworthy than a self guided tractor is a self driving car. At least the tractor is out on a farm field instead of surrounded by innocent people on the highway. But there are many who argue they would rather drive next to a computer than most of the idiots on the road now.


Chicken lights said:


> gotta have something to talk about in a small town LOL



So true! You are full of wisdom lately! I love it!


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## whydontu (Jun 19, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Ya, I'm on the same page. I'd like straighter rows. But.....
> 
> In my opinion, the only thing more untrustworthy than a self guided tractor is a self driving car. At least the tractor is out on a farm field instead of surrounded by innocent people on the highway. But there are many who argue they would rather drive next to a computer than most of the idiots on the road now.
> 
> ...


The concept of a powered vehicle driven in traffic, controlled by software, terrifies me. Have you met many programmers? My older brother is a senior software engineer, his boss is a P.Eng (chemical) and a also a senior software engineer. Both of them need help to go to a 7-11.


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## DPittman (Jun 19, 2022)

Rows look great! I've never been able to drive straight for the life of me.  Even with a mile long even summerfallow fields with telephone poles to aim at I couldn't keep it very straight.  I don't do alot of field work  but when I do it's all on the latest gps guided machinery and I love it!  

The evenness of the corn stand looks awesome.  And that is from an agronomist and former Pioneer seed rep ( I can talk about farming with more confidence than I can machining)


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## Degen (Jun 19, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Didn't know that. I thought the current generation of satellites didn't even have the capability to have deliberate error. Are you sure of that? The simple fact is that it wouldn't matter to any corrected system though so if they did do that, it's kind of a waste of effort if you ask me.


Actually its very simple as they send the time and the GPS calculates the distance and location based on the sat location, which is why you need at least 3, the more the better the location.

As to why they scramble mobile long range systems (think foreign ICBMs) do not track LORAN or the RKT systems but rely on Civilian GPS which if scrambled to a 100m is the difference between a miss or  a damaging hit.

GPS sat's are all USA sat's.

Now to be fair there is a lot more to it than this, but for the purposes of general info and understanding it is more than enough.


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## Susquatch (Jun 19, 2022)

Degen said:


> Actually its very simple as they send the time and the GPS calculates the distance and location based on the sat location, which is why you need at least 3, the more the better the location.
> 
> As to why they scramble mobile long range systems (think foreign ICBMs) do not track LORAN or the RKT systems but rely on Civilian GPS which if scrambled to a 100m is the difference between a miss or  a damaging hit.
> 
> ...



No need to explain or simplify anything for me. I understand how it all works in very great detail.  

Whatever the US does to their Satelite system, doesn't affect ICBMs. ICBMs use inertial guidance systems not GPS. Even short range missiles only use gps for course verification. GPS is simply too easy to jam. 

Besides, the Russians & Chinese both have their own GPS satellite constellations called GLONASS & BeiDou respectively. 

Lastly, ICBMs are all armed with nuclear war heads. A near miss doesn't really matter. As far as I know, there are no non-nuclear ICBMs.

FWIW, there is also an EU system called Galileo and there are two regional systems QZSS (Japan) and IRNSS or NavIC (India). Most modern GPS units use more than just one constellation. The one that I designed and built uses all four of the existing constellations. 

But I could see an older nav system on an airplane that might be on a suicide run aimed at an office tower being affected. I was only saying I had not heard that the US deliberately put error into the gps system on 9/11 and therefore I was asking if you know for sure that it was or were just speculating.


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## DPittman (Jun 19, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Finally finished my taxes and taking a little time to stop and smell the roses.
> 
> Got my crops in a bit late this year but the corn is looking GREAT! Thought you folks might appreciate a little Farmer Porn - aka nice rows of corn! Guaranteed to get any farmer all excited!
> 
> ...


It makes no sense to me that if you have 1cm accuracy that you do not have auto steer.  Surely you are not using that precision to chase around a light bar?


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## Degen (Jun 19, 2022)

After 911 the error was activated again for a short period and on a few other occasions since then.

BTW Wrong choice of missile for example, but that is the concept for scrambling.

I have seen drifts as far as 150m on a few occasions in the early 90's.  The fastest was drift about 40m in about 3hrs.


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## Susquatch (Jun 19, 2022)

DPittman said:


> It makes no sense to me that if you have 1cm accuracy that you do not have auto steer.  Surely you are not using that precision to chase around a light bar?



Well sort of but not really. I use a tablet with Google maps instead of a light bar. That way I can follow a superimposed vector instead of a bar of LEDs. 

Recall that I don't use it for planting. Just fertilizing, spraying, and working dirt. In those situations the precision is not required. A simple point and go is plenty good enough. 

The trouble with steering is my old tractors. They are not autosteer ready. I'd have to design and build a standalone system or buy new tractors. I'm just not ready for that kind of expense. My planter marker system works just fine for the money. 

Ya, I didn't have to design the gps system for that kind of accuracy, but then again why not? This way I can use it for surveying too. 

If I ever come up with an easy steering interface, maybe I'll reconsider.


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## DPittman (Jun 19, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> Well sort of but not really. I use a tablet with Google maps instead of a light bar. That way I can follow a superimposed vector instead of a bar of LEDs.
> 
> Recall that I don't use it for planting. Just fertilizing, spraying, and working dirt. In those situations the precision is not required. A simple point and go is plenty good enough.
> 
> ...


Just a couple of points...

Yes great precision is not necessary for those field operations you listed. However it sounded like you purposely incorporated high precision components and planning in your design.   It seems like a waste not to use that effort.

Almost any farm machinery with a steering wheel can be EASILY adapted with auto steer technology.

Don't quote me on the price but several years ago (6-10) I believe one of the more popular retrofits could be had for under $4000.  And the basic ones can be easily swapped out of one tractor into another if need be. No need to design your own "standalone system or buy new tractors". Check out Trimble Ez Steer.

I'm going to assume you are using GPS more for fun and pride than for economical reasons.  Typically a fellow needs to farm at least several hundred acres (or fewer very high value crops) to make most GPS guidance systems pay.  And if you farm alot of acres, then it is usually very easy to justify expensive GPS guidance systems.


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## Susquatch (Jun 20, 2022)

DPittman said:


> Just a couple of points...
> 
> Yes great precision is not necessary for those field operations you listed. However it sounded like you purposely incorporated high precision components and planning in your design.   It seems like a waste not to use that effort.



You are a smart cookie. Yes, part of me likes to play, but another part likes to look ahead. Autosteer planting is a long term goal. In the meantime, locating survey stakes for my neighbours and I is a short term goal. I have a surveyors theodolite but GPS is WAY Better for that.



DPittman said:


> Almost any farm machinery with a steering wheel can be EASILY adapted with auto steer technology.
> 
> Don't quote me on the price but several years ago (6-10) I believe one of the more popular retrofits could be had for under $4000.  And the basic ones can be easily swapped out of one tractor into another if need be. No need to design your own "standalone system or buy new tractors". Check out Trimble Ez Steer.



I looked at all these systems exhaustively before deciding to make my own. Your 4 grand is more like 10 today. EXCEPT, I have heard that Field Bee is planning to make a steering unit that is much less expensive. It just isn't yet available. I believe you remove your old wheel and replace it with theirs.




DPittman said:


> I'm going to assume you are using GPS more for fun and pride than for economical reasons.  Typically a fellow needs to farm at least several hundred acres (or fewer very high value crops) to make most GPS guidance systems pay.  And if you farm alot of acres, then it is usually very easy to justify expensive GPS guidance systems.



I only farm cash crops on 100 acres. Plenty enough for an old man. Regular GPS is 20 grand for the hardware and 10 grand a year for the base station subscription. Not happening here.

Planting is one thing, but fertilizing and spreading is another. Prior to building my gps units, I had to go out and put survey flags across both ends and at several intervals in between each of my three  200 yard wide fields to mark off 50 ft Spreader intervals. Usually, you are in a hurry to beat the rain or get it done before planting. Let's not forget my poor eyesight.

Even spraying existing crops is a pain cuz you have to count rows. Overlap is a VERY BAD IDEA, and missing a stripe or row means a row of weeds down the whole field - ugly and embarrassing too. GPS makes all that REALLY EASY.

Working dirt is another vote for GPS. Neither one of my tractors will turn sharply enough to make adjacent paths across a field. So randomly spaced paths are pretty much the rule. GPS makes that easy and efficient to do too. Just lay guidance lines at whatever spacing you want for your equipment and then just pick a guidance line and go, then pick another one for the next pass and go again etc.

I have two tractors I use for field work. I will need two autosteer setups. So interchangeability is also a goal if I end up doing that.

I am also mid 70s. In ten years I'll be mid 80s. In 20 mid 90s. I hope I'll still be driving a tractor and throwing seed bags by then, but the hedge rows may be wishing otherwise.......

I fully expect you know all that, but sometimes we all need reminding. My glass is way more than half full with what I have. Maybe some day I'll overflow the glass with autosteer. And yes, I did design the unit with output to control steering if I ever wanted it.


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## DPittman (Jun 20, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> I looked at all these systems exhaustively before deciding to make my own. Your 4 grand is more like 10 today.


I think you need to check out prices again, it looks like things have gotten cheaper not more expensive.  You already have the precision gps component in place all you need is the electrically driven steering wheel motor gizmo.








						EZ-Steer® for EZ-Guide® 250/500 Base Kit
					

The Trimble™ EZ-Steer® assisted steering system provides simple, portable, hands-free farming for more than 1200 vehicle models – old and new. The EZ-Steer® system turns the steering wheel for you by combining a friction wheel and a motor with guidance from any Trimble™ display. It keeps your...




					www.vantagenortheast.com


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## DPittman (Jun 20, 2022)

Possibly on 100 acres you may find it maneable as is but from my own limited experience I found trying to follow a screen or light bar for navigation  very tiring.  The auto steer makes it much much less exhausting for the operator.  
My brothers put an auto steer on a swather years ago (before that was common) for the very reason of making it less fatiguing for the operator.  Maybe it's no big deal for you yet while your still in your prime but maybe in another 20 years you might find it necessary


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## historicalarms (Jun 20, 2022)

I dont live in a row-crop area at all, just big open fields that most can be seen for miles and the bain of farmers in that environ is a seed drill section that doesnt "trip" the seed meter when the rest of the implement does and leaves a swath of unseeded field that can be seen by the neighbors for the rest of the year...shows up like stripes on a zebra.


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## 6.5 Fan (Jun 20, 2022)

We call those missed rows of crop "tram lines"


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## Susquatch (Jun 20, 2022)

DPittman said:


> I think you need to check out prices again, it looks like things have gotten cheaper not more expensive.  You already have the precision gps component in place all you need is the electrically driven steering wheel motor gizmo.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ya, that's about right. 

Keep in mind that the prices I mentioned before were for OEM. I believe I said that but could have been clearer. 

The motor drive you linked to still requires the column half. Don't know much that is altogether. Prolly not double. 

I think my problem with that system is that it's too much stuff between my legs. Not a lot of room left there as it is...... 

The new field bee system (no idea how much) replaces the wheel so it should be ok. My fingers are crossed. 



DPittman said:


> Possibly on 100 acres you may find it maneable as is but from my own limited experience I found trying to follow a screen or light bar for navigation very tiring.



Yes, this true. I found the best way to minimize this is to abandon the idea of trying to hold to an inch. Just use it to aim and correct only as needed. Ignore most of the time. A foot one way or the other is no big deal for spraying spreading or working dirt. 

Hey, in case it's not obvious here, I'm not trying to poo-poo autosteer for farming. It has its place and it's in the future plan. But there is only so much time and money. One step at a time.


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## Susquatch (Jun 20, 2022)

6.5 Fan said:


> We call those missed rows of crop "tram lines"



That's especially funny because none of the farmers in my area did tram lines till I arrived. I brought the idea east with me. After a few farmers asked me about them, and I showed them the economics, there has been a transformation. Everyone does tram lines in beans around here now.

It's also related to another project on my todo list. Gotta find a way to turn off planter rows with a switch in the cab. It's a pain in the butt stopping to disconnect the drives.


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## Dusty (Jun 20, 2022)

Git yr self a keen farm doggy. Just saying!


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## 6.5 Fan (Jun 21, 2022)

You can go old school and use a low tech cheap disc marker. Used them for many years on the old hoe drills. Please no "hoe" jokes


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## DPittman (Jun 21, 2022)

6.5 Fan said:


> You can go old school and use a low tech cheap disc marker. Used them for many years on the old hoe drills. Please no "hoe" jokes


Yup and you never have to worry about the satellites being "down" or drifting for unknown reasons and all the other electronic glitches that go along with high tech.


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## Susquatch (Jun 21, 2022)

6.5 Fan said:


> You can go old school and use a low tech cheap disc marker. Used them for many years on the old hoe drills. Please no "hoe" jokes





DPittman said:


> Yup and you never have to worry about the satellites being "down" or drifting for unknown reasons and all the other electronic glitches that go along with high tech.



Jezz guys, isn't that exactly what I said I did do?

Markers work just fine for me.

Well,.... Except for the year the bolt slipped, and the year I forgot to switch the marker length when I switched from beans to corn, and the year the marker hydraulics broke down in the middle of planting, and the year I broke a marker when a big branch jumped out from between parked trees......

But ya, I like markers too.


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## combustable herbage (Jun 21, 2022)

What is the proper distance between plants and rows for corn?   When I was growing up we never grew corn so I now try and grow it in the garden they are amazing plants love how they funnel the water down to the roots.


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## DPittman (Jun 21, 2022)

combustable herbage said:


> What is the proper distance between plants and rows for corn?   When I was growing up we never grew corn so I now try and grow it in the garden they are amazing plants love how they funnel the water down to the roots.


That's a bit like asking what is the proper lathe to use.  
Well it depends on lots of different factors but corn (as should all crops) is planted based on target plant population per acre/hectare/ft/etc and so it depends on what row spacing is used that determines the spacing between plants.  But to give you a ball park idea (for Alberta anyhow) target plant populations are around 32000/acre and 30" row spacing is fairly common.  So plants end up being roughly 5" apart in the rows.


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## Susquatch (Jun 21, 2022)

combustable herbage said:


> What is the proper distance between plants and rows for corn?   When I was growing up we never grew corn so I now try and grow it in the garden they are amazing plants love how they funnel the water down to the roots.



There is no right answer. Or maybe I should say that it depends...... 

Your climate, your soil, the corn variety, etc etc all affect that. 

I plant 30 inch rows with seeds about 6" apart in my best two fields, and 7" in my 3rd field. On my farm, this will yield about 250 bu/ac and 200 bu/ac with optimum fertilizing. Keep in mind that farm production is a balance between the cost of inputs and the market price of corn. 

But I'm gunna assume you are talking sweet corn in southern Ontario in a vegetable garden. If so, you are not as interested in overall yield as you are in nice big full cobs. 

Therefore, you can do something like 36 and 8 or so and get a good garden harvest if you fertilize and water well, and control bugs, pests, and weeds.


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## Susquatch (Jun 21, 2022)

combustable herbage said:


> What is the proper distance between plants and rows for corn?   When I was growing up we never grew corn so I now try and grow it in the garden they are amazing plants love how they funnel the water down to the roots.



@DPittman is an agronomist. I think his advice for the Prairie will be hard to beat.

The only thing I really want to add here is that corn is REALLY REALLY nitrogen hungry. If it doesn't get the nitrogen it needs, you will not get a great harvest. I use a broadcast nitrogen mix with micronutrients up front, a liquid nitrogen starter in the seed trench, and then I knife in additional liquid nitrogen with a stabilizer at the 6 leaf stage.

The reason I advocate bigger spacing for garden corn is reduce plant competition to get bigger cobs. More space is always better.

You could also prune away any extra cobs before they grow silk on each of the plants to force them to grow one cob only.


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## Susquatch (Jun 21, 2022)

DPittman said:


> That's a bit like asking what is the proper lathe to use.
> Well it depends on lots of different factors but corn (as should all crops) is planted based on target plant population per acre/hectare/ft/etc and so it depends on what row spacing is used that determines the spacing between plants.  But to give you a ball park idea (for Alberta anyhow) target plant populations are around 32000/acre and 30" row spacing is fairly common.  So plants end up being roughly 5" apart in the rows.



A question I've always wanted to ask an agronomist is about emergence. One of my fields is clay. If I get a heavy rain after planting, my dirt will crust over and emergence really suffers with lots of plants dying underground before they ever reach the sun.

Some farmers tell me this doesn't matter because the seed companies deliberately develop seed that will accomodate this emergence issue. Do you know what kind of emergence percentage they target?


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## DPittman (Jun 21, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> A question I've always wanted to ask an agronomist is about emergence. One of my fields is clay. If I get a heavy rain after planting, my dirt will crust over and emergence really suffers with lots of plants dying underground before they ever reach the sun.
> 
> Some farmers tell me this doesn't matter because the seed companies deliberately develop seed that will accomodate this emergence issue. Do you know what kind of emergence percentage they target?


I'm not sure what your question is but I'll  can tell that if you are seeing that plants do not ever emerge in your field that is very important and must be addressed.  You may not be able to prevent the issue occurring but your ending plant population needs to be a factor in guiding your seeding rate.  Any long term soil ammendents like building organic matter can help reduce crusting problems.

A fact that often surprises people is that eveness of emergence of a corn stand is extremely important. Plants that emerge 10 days later are as good as weeds to the rest of the stand.


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## Susquatch (Jun 21, 2022)

DPittman said:


> I'm not sure what your question is but I'll  can tell that if you are seeing that plants do not ever emerge in your field that is very important and must be addressed.  You may not be able to prevent the issue occurring but your ending plant population needs to be a factor in guiding your seeding rate.  Any long term soil ammendents like building organic matter can help reduce crusting problems.
> 
> A fact that often surprises people is that eveness of emergence of a corn stand is extremely important. Plants that emerge 10 days later are as good as weeds to the rest of the stand.



OK, how about rephrasing my question..... 

Given that the seed companies mix old unused less-fertile seed with new seed, what percentage of them do they anticipate will never come up?


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## DPittman (Jun 21, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> OK, how about rephrasing my question.....
> 
> Given that the seed companies mix old unused less-fertile seed with new seed, what percentage of them do they anticipate will never come up?


You can (and should) get a certificate of analysis that shows the germination for every bag of seed.  But remember germination results on a certificate are under ideal conditions, what actually comes up in your field can be a different thing....hence using your actual emergence rate in guiding your planting rate.


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## Tom O (Jun 21, 2022)

What’s Farmer Porn without a joke.


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## combustable herbage (Jun 21, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> There is no right answer. Or maybe I should say that it depends......
> 
> Your climate, your soil, the corn variety, etc etc all affect that.
> 
> ...


Well I don't want to start any corn spacing wars I was asking for a friend he he.   I understand thinning them out for a better yield I just hate playing god and pulling out good growing plants.     I read the book "Teaming with Microbes" and have been using compost tea in the garden and yard for about 5 years better every year, I am planting my cannabis  and corn in the same spots every year to try and take advantage of the existing microbes in that spot. The problem is it makes everything including weeds grow well so I still have to get some straw down keep them down. I don't add any fertilizer from the store for nitrogen I make a natural one from stinging nettles and then I put my trust in nature and am thankful for the harvest I receive.


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## Degen (Nov 7, 2022)

A little off topic from machining but a new machine all the same (sort of )


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## DPittman (Nov 7, 2022)

Pretty cool.


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## LenVW (Nov 7, 2022)

Unfortunately when you spray crops it requires you to use water as a carrier.
Water is a heavy medium and will limit the acres of coverage completed by the drone Which has limited capacity for carrying liquid tanks.
Typical wheeled sprayers can be 500 - 1600 gallon capacity.

Pup tank refilling would be the practical way to use the spray drones. This keeps the drone in the air spraying and less time refilling on the ground.

When my family ran 600 acres, Farming was a race when weather conditions were favourable.


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