# Craftex milling machine



## trlvn (Jul 18, 2019)

I snagged a Craftex mill-drill via an online auction last night.  A model B1977, it seems to be from 2002 or so and includes a digital readout and power on the X axis.  With "Buyers Premium" and HST, the price was OK but not gloatable.  I'm also going to have to rent a vehicle and an engine hoist to get it home so that's going to add the cost.

Here's a picture from the auction listing:






Pickup is on Saturday so I'll probably be posting more questions and whatnot after that.  

BTW, it is supposed to rain on Saturday so I'm planning to rent a cargo van.  If I take the machine off the base, it will fit into the van upright, won't it?  The manual says the height is 43.5 inches but somehow it looks taller.

Craig


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## YYCHM (Jul 18, 2019)

So what did it end up costing you (less moving it)?  DRO and x-axis power feed. NICE!


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## trlvn (Jul 18, 2019)

My winning bid was $1,002--apparently that "2" made all the difference!  But with buyer's premium and HST, the total was almost $1,300.

I really thought the bidding on the mill was going to go to $1,300 and maybe past $1,500.  OTOH, there is no proper milling vise and just a single collet (mounted).  (Hmm, wrench??)   Earlier in the auction, there were lots with a collet set, boring head and a drill chuck on R8.  Since I didn't expect to win the mill, I didn't even bid on these.  And they generally went for near the price of new stuff!

Craig


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## Tom Kitta (Jul 18, 2019)

It feels to me that in ON you paid a bit too much for it. Bidding at $1500 would put it into new category for this mill sans DRO / power - i.e. you could just get a new one for that price (with fees included).

In AB similar mill drill on auction with same stand about same age went for around 830 CAD with 20% fee (5% GST + 15% auction) that makes it under $100. It didn't have power feed and Y axis needed work BUT in AB you pay premium for machines. New DRO and power on X would put this above what you paid but they would be new and machine is in AB.

Similar vintage mill drill is on Kijiji here for a while and they want $1500. Through it has no power feed nor a dro - but no one touched it for over a month. 

So I think you are right that you paid "OK" but nowhere close to "I got a great deal".

You paid about 50c on a $1 vs. all new machine. I have a mill listed on sale for around 25c to a $ and its a 1995.


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## trlvn (Jul 18, 2019)

Ontario prices may be higher than you think.  This is the third RF-30 type mill that has sold in the last 3 weeks.  The most comparable one, a Craftex B1976, went last week for a little more money ($1,050 hammer price + BP + tax).  Included power feed but did not have a DRO.  Also appeared to have been used in home-based business so I was more concerned about wear. 

The third one was quite a bit older (circa 35 years old), included a DRO but didn't have power feed.  The asking price was $850 but I don't know what they actually got for it.  There were multiple guys looking it over.  And it would have been a nightmare to get it out of the basement!  Narrow stairs and multiple tight turns.

I've been keeping an eye out for 6 months or more and these are the only 3 mill/drills I've seen offered in that time. 

BTW, there was a mini-mill also offered in last night's auction.  The pictures clearly show that it was heavily rusted.  I attended the preview and the X and Y would barely move.  Could not figure out if the Z was frozen or locked.  I'm guessing that it was left unprotected because something is broken.  Nevertheless I think the final bid was $232.  I think someone is going to be crying on Saturday when they see how bad it is!

Craig


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## Tom Kitta (Jul 18, 2019)

That is very interesting - I always though ON was at least 20% less then AB but you are proof that it is not so - at least not in the small machine sector. Good thing to know. Guess I am not going to go to ON to pick up some machines anytime soon.


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## YYCHM (Jul 18, 2019)

What's this buyers premium about?  Is it a fixed value?

I think you got a pretty decent deal.


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## Tom Kitta (Jul 18, 2019)

Auctions used to make $$$ only on seller fees. Some time ago - like 10 or 20 years they figured they charge the buyer as well... 

Buyer fees are usually like 10% or 15% here in AB plus GST of 5%. This is for machinery - for cars or maybe large machines you may get a flat fee buyers fee of say $250. 

Seller fees are all over the map. You can have huge seller fee of 30% when dealing with small items < $100. Or more reasonable 13% for items that sell over 2500. Or flat fee of say $250 per car. 

Items you purchase at auctions come usually without any guarantees. Through some have successfully sued auction houses for not disclosing some know facts when selling vehicles. As a rule you should never pay the same at an action vs. private sale - always less - especially a lot less for a car. Auctions are filled with "mines" - it is safer to buy private party but expect to pay more.


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## Chicken lights (Jul 18, 2019)

trlvn said:


> I snagged a Craftex mill-drill via an online auction last night.  A model B1977, it seems to be from 2002 or so and includes a digital readout and power on the X axis.  With "Buyers Premium" and HST, the price was OK but not gloatable.  I'm also going to have to rent a vehicle and an engine hoist to get it home so that's going to add the cost.
> 
> Here's a picture from the auction listing:
> 
> ...


Need a hand dragging this home?


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## YYCHM (Jul 18, 2019)

Tom Kitta said:


> Auctions used to make $$$ only on seller fees. Some time ago - like 10 or 20 years they figured they charge the buyer as well...
> 
> Buyer fees are usually like 10% or 15% here in AB plus GST of 5%. This is for machinery - for cars or maybe large machines you may get a flat fee buyers fee of say $250.
> 
> ...




Ok..... I think I'll stay the H away from auctions then.  Sounds to risky for me thanks


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## trlvn (Jul 18, 2019)

Chicken lights said:


> Need a hand dragging this home?


Thanks for the offer but I think I'm OK.  I've got my son coming to provide the muscle but with the engine hoist we shouldn't have to work too hard.  I hope.  More concerned that it may be a zoo trying to get in and out.  It is a narrow lane with limited room to back up to the garage.

Craig


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## Chicken lights (Jul 18, 2019)

trlvn said:


> Thanks for the offer but I think I'm OK.  I've got my son coming to provide the muscle but with the engine hoist we shouldn't have to work too hard.  I hope.  More concerned that it may be a zoo trying to get in and out.  It is a narrow lane with limited room to back up to the garage.
> 
> Craig


Sounds good. Don’t be shy if you need a hand if plans fall through


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## trlvn (Jul 18, 2019)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> Ok..... I think I'll stay the H away from auctions then.  Sounds to risky for me thanks


There is risk in everything.  Doesn't everybody have a Kijiji story where the seller turned out to be an unsavoury character or you had a strong suspicion that items being sold didn't legally belong to the seller?  Etc.

Online auctions have really surged in the past few years around here.  If you check the pictures carefully and don't let yourself get caught up in 'auction fever' during the close, you can snag some decent deals and avoid over paying.  

The only thing I regret buying in the last year was a milling vise I paid $60 for.   I might still be able to fix it.  I'll be much more careful if I ever get interested in an item offered through that auctioneer again, though.  I never did determine if the damage was actually visible in the online pictures or not.  I certainly didn't recognize it during the auction and I guess the backup bidder didn't either!

OTOH, I used to attend live auctions.  At those, you often had little time to size up the condition of an item.  And if you spent too much time looking, you were likely to get other interested and then the price much get run up.  There aren't many auctioneers that actually know much about tools so you certainly couldn't count on them to point out flaws.  Plus you got to spend all day hanging around in the sun waiting for them to get to the items you're interested in.

Craig


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## Tom Kitta (Jul 18, 2019)

Yeah Kijiji has its risks. I have my horror stories. Even buying new can be a problem sometimes! Heck I am waiting over 2 months for a milling table I ordered from KMS. That taken the $$$ and made "special order"... 2 months. Any moment now.


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## kevin.decelles (Jul 18, 2019)

I love live auctions. Adrenaline rush!

Sometimes I feel bad for the seller, some poor widow or elderly couple with health issues.....poorly advertised , low turnout and great deals because there is no bidding competition

Or...... all the idiots in a too small space paying over retail for 20 year old welders.........



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## trlvn (Jul 21, 2019)

Many, many thanks to @Chicken lights for helping me load the mill/drill at the auction site.  And especially for pointing out that we could just slide it off the table and onto the lift gate of the truck.  Duh!  I would have screwed around for an extra hour trying to safely lift the machine off and down to the ground.  

No pictures from loading and unloading the machine as it was busy at the pickup and I wasn't going to peel my gloves off to fool with the phone.  It was also insanely hot but thankfully the rain came long after the machine was safely in my garage.  






It is a Craftex B1977 (September 2008) with 28.7" by 8.3" table.  "1-1/2" HP motor drawing 12 amps at 240 volts.  I think I get 240V power to the garage temporarily by running an extension cord from the laundry room.  BT-3 digital readout by Shooting Star Technology (with manual).  Power feed by Align (with manual).  It was detached for transport.  

Don't have a proper milling vise.  There is a single 1/4" R8 collet in the machine so I need more tool holding. It came with a Busy Bee clamping set.

Did get some other bits & bobs with it but not anything exciting.  

Craig


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## trlvn (Jul 21, 2019)

BTW, the manual says almost nothing about lubrication.  How am I supposed to get oil into the X ways?  Should I be using Way Oil like for the lathe?  Same for the Y travel.  What about the spindle and column? 

 I'm guessing the motor and the idler pulley are all sealed ball bearings and don't require regular lube.

Craig


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## YYCHM (Jul 21, 2019)

NICE!  What is the thing mounted on the front of the table that looks like a bent feed screw?


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## Tom Kitta (Jul 21, 2019)

You can oil the bottom of the table with way oil. In bigger mills there is lubrication reservoir and I put in sae 30 non detergent oil in it so it goes nice through little tubes. 

Spindle probably has an oilier cup - use same as for drill press column... after all you have a ... drill press. Its to lubricate the movement of the spindle housing when drilling holes. There may be additional cups for bearings.

for column you can use heavier oil so it sticks.


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## trlvn (Jul 21, 2019)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> NICE!  What is the thing mounted on the front of the table that looks like a bent feed screw?


Believe that's part of the DRO.

Craig


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## Chicken lights (Jul 21, 2019)

You’re welcome!! Glad I could be some help. 

Good to hear you got it home safely!


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## trlvn (Jul 21, 2019)

Tom Kitta said:


> You can oil the bottom of the table with way oil. In bigger mills there is lubrication reservoir and I put in sae 30 non detergent oil in it so it goes nice through little tubes.
> 
> Spindle probably has an oilier cup - use same as for drill press column... after all you have a ... drill press. Its to lubricate the movement of the spindle housing when drilling holes. There may be additional cups for bearings.
> 
> for column you can use heavier oil so it sticks.


You mean a Gits cup oiler or similar?  I've been all over the mill and I don't see anything like that.  If I look up under the table, I can see the screw and nut so it wouldn't be hard to get some oil on those. 

Perhaps I should pull the table off before I go to far.  I do see bits of swarf and trash here and there.  Maybe I should take this opportunity to clean everything up and get lube on the full length of the slides.

I can also see the spindle action as the original cover was removed to mount the DRO.  I guess I can just squirt some oil on the visible bits.

Craig


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## trlvn (Jul 21, 2019)

Tom Kitta said:


> after all you have a ... drill press


Albeit 700 pounds of 'drill press'!  

Craig


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## trlvn (Jul 23, 2019)

Well, the good news is that I got my 240 V extension cord made up and powered up the mill/drill for the first time.  No drama; no magic smoke.  Everything runs quiet and smooth.  I did notice that the pulley grooves had rust--at least where the belt wasn't sitting.  I think this machine sat idle for at least a couple of years.  Maybe longer.

The bad news is that DRO scale for the X axis was bent.  This style has uses a thin metal rod with tiny teeth down one side.  The company, Shooting Star Technology, is still around and can supply a replacement for USD $100 plus $35 shipping.  Ouch.  They said that perhaps I could straighten the existing scale to be usable.  I fooled with it for a while this afternoon and I'm close.  Unfortunately, two spots are giving me trouble.  There seems to be a kink in one spot that may be just too much.  I'm going to have another go at it but I'm not confident I can salvage it.  

I think I have a line on some more collets and a drill chuck.  Going to see tomorrow.  

How big a vise do people normally put on an 8 X 29 machine?  4 inch?  I know a good quality vise is important but I want to keep my marriage, too!

Craig


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## PeterT (Jul 23, 2019)

That's too bad about the bent DRO scale. Yes its kind of a special ground 'rack' rod that Shooting Star employed. If you cant resolve the kink that might be a problem because its also probably not great for the encoder head either. I assumed they still employed the same rod but just upgraded the readout box. Maybe that's not the case anymore. I had SS system on my RF-45 & it worked quite well. The nice thing is you just cut to length. But that was long before the low priced Chinese systems came along. I don't know what to say. 165CDN would put a good dent in a Chinese system that people are having reasonably good luck with. If its a common table size you stand a chance of selling it again if you ever upgrade the mill. 

I installed the shooting star scale on the front of table (not knowing better). But when I upgraded to different DRO I put it on the rear face under protective angle channel & under a rubber apron. I think its a better spot as long as it doesn't limit movement.


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## PeterT (Jul 23, 2019)

In case you have grief with your power feed casting & lead screw alignment, this is a mod I did on my RF-45 a while back. Same principle.
https://canadianhobbymetalworkers.com/threads/mill-power-feed-mount-improvement.753/#post-7105

You could fit a 4 or 5" vice on the table no problem. The issue isn't so much the jaw width. Its that typical mill vises gets proportionately thicker & robs vertical height. A 6" might be 3-4" off the table before you have a part clamped. YouTube Stefan uses a 4 or 5"" Chinese 'precision vise' knockoff (meaning something that looks more like a grinding vise) which is actually quite well suited to the bench mills. They are very accurate, & reasonably priced. The import cast iron mill vises are kind of hit & miss quality wise so check carefully or they become expensive door stops. Lots of discussions here on the forum.


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## trlvn (Jul 24, 2019)

@PeterT Thanks for sharing your experience.  Looks like you and the previous owner of my mill mounted the SS scale exactly the same way.  At this point, there isn't much left to lose on the bent scale so I'm going to try tapping it.  Right now, it binds a little in the encoder head at one spot and stops dead at the other.  I'm hoping that a lot of light taps may chase out the kink without damaging the teeth or flattening the round rod.  :fingers crossed:  

That is a very cool mod to the power feed, as well.  I haven't reconnected and tested mine yet.

I did some searching last night regarding a vise.  So many choices and so few first hand reports of quality or lack thereof.  I don't think I have to rush into buying one.  I have two clamping kits and a couple of drill press vises that I can get by with for now.  I'll keep an eye out for sales.

Craig


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## trlvn (Aug 2, 2019)

So I've made some progress on my mill in the last week.  As I mentioned above, the mill did not come with a vise.  Back in April, I had bought a vise through an online auction that was in pretty tough shape:






At the time, I couldn't get the movable jaw removed and therefore couldn't get the base off.  The locking collar (left end, above) would not move.  I decided I had little to lose and applied some brute force whereupon everything came apart easily!  After some clean up and using my mill to make some soft aluminum jaws, it now looks like:






Still need a proper handle and a non-marring set screw for the collar.  And it is a bit of a weird vise.  It is 4 inches wide but the jaws are not quite an inch high.  I will get something better at some point.

I also got some collets and other bits for the machine.  A fellow (way up in Orillia) was selling a lot of stuff.  He'd already sold the machines but still had two garages piled high with all sorts of machinist stuff.  To keep the peace at home, I had to say "No" to an awful lot of tempting stuff!  

Also, I got the needed replacement parts for the X axis of the DRO.  Shooting Star Technologies shipped me the scale promptly.  Not sure how the previous owner had made it work.  I had to futz around a lot to get the scale and head properly aligned, including elongating some holes in a mounting bracket and making my own stand-offs for the scale.  Sorry, it was done after I took the above picture.  

BTW, the Z axis DRO isn't perfect.  If I feed downward and lock the quill, the DRO will jump 5-10 thous when I turn on the power.  I think the head is binding and then is released by the vibration when running.   This only seems to happen when feeding down.  The position readout doesn't change if I'm adjusting the quill upwards.

Also on the hit parade is the power feed.  It works...but just at max speed.  I'm hoping the Rapid Switch is just stuck.  Does anyone have an Align power feed?  I don't feel any action when I press on the rapid switch.  

Craig


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## Brent H (Aug 2, 2019)

Hey Craig,
Do you know if the Orilla guy is still selling things?  I am only 15 minutes from there.  

Your fast feed button might be gummed up and stuck. It should click on and release when you let it go.


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## trlvn (Aug 2, 2019)

Brent H said:


> Hey Craig,
> Do you know if the Orilla guy is still selling things?  I am only 15 minutes from there.
> 
> Your fast feed button might be gummed up and stuck. It should click on and release when you let it go.


The ad is still up and given the mountain of stuff, I expect he'll be selling for some time:

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-view-details.html?adId=1444790433

I checked the power feed.  It wasn't gummed up--the little bracket was bent so the button was always depressed.  With a bit of coaxing, I bent it back (straight-ish) and all is well.  I'll take an easy win any time I stumble across one!

BTW, I see now that the housing for the Z axis read head runs into the spindle lock handle near the end of its travel.  Still need to figure out why it is binding earlier in the path.

Craig


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## Chicken lights (Aug 2, 2019)

trlvn said:


> So I've made some progress on my mill in the last week.  As I mentioned above, the mill did not come with a vise.  Back in April, I had bought a vise through an online auction that was in pretty tough shape:
> 
> View attachment 5685
> 
> ...


https://www.kijiji.ca/v-hand-tool/h...ss/1450321703?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

 I’m not sure if you saw that ad yet


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## trlvn (Aug 2, 2019)

Chicken lights said:


> https://www.kijiji.ca/v-hand-tool/h...ss/1450321703?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true
> 
> I’m not sure if you saw that ad yet


Thanks, I know John.  He organizes the Tools of the Trades antique tool shows twice a year.  

http://ontarioantiquetools.com

He generally wants top dollar for his stuff.  I'm going to use the little vise I've got now and keep looking for a reasonably priced upgrade.

Criag


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## Janger (Aug 4, 2019)

trlvn said:


> Believe that's part of the DRO.
> 
> Craig



That's a Shooting Star brand DRO. A Guy in BC makes them. I have one in the cupboard I really need to attach to my lathe...

It's rack and pinion style mechanism under that plastic cover. Craig I hope it isn't bent. It would be better to re-mount it on the back of the table so you don't drop some heavy part on it.


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## trlvn (Aug 4, 2019)

Janger said:


> ...It would be better to re-mount it on the back of the table so you don't drop some heavy part on it.


I got the replacement part and I've remounted it on the front of the table.  I think I'd have to disassemble a lot of the X-Y carriage to be able to drill mounting holes on the back.  Plus the read head has to protrude past the scale a bit which could put it at risk of being squashed against the column if I moved the table all the way in.

Craig


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## Janger (Aug 5, 2019)

trlvn said:


> I got the replacement part and I've remounted it on the front of the table.  I think I'd have to disassemble a lot of the X-Y carriage to be able to drill mounting holes on the back.  Plus the read head has to protrude past the scale a bit which could put it at risk of being squashed against the column if I moved the table all the way in.
> 
> Craig


I’ve seen some guys put a piece of angle in to protect it from above.


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## trlvn (Aug 5, 2019)

Janger said:


> I’ve seen some guys put a piece of angle in to protect it from above.


I may well do something like that.  I'm thinking now that I may have to remount the Z axis scale.

Craig


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