# Horseless Carriage Project; Here is the latest on my horseless carriage project, one of a series of steam powered vehicles..



## Todd McBride (Jul 27, 2020)

This 1900 vintage steam powered "horseless carriage" is the "two door hard top" version of the Cochrane Ranch Steam Locomobile, the first car in Alberta (Its at the Reynolds in Wetaskiwin) 

Right now it has a 36V electric drive that will be used for parades (0-10kph), plus a 6hp gasoline drive that provides a "road gear" (0-25kph). In the next month or so I will build a boiler and 2 cylinder double acting steam engine of about 1hp that should run the car at parade speeds. I need to keep the boiler small enough that it is exempt from all the $$inspections prescribed for larger boilers posing a public safety risk. The original Locomobiles had a much larger boiler to supply 300psi steam to a 5.5hp engine.

The spindles, axles and transmission to engage the electric/gas/steam drive kept me busy on my Craftex 709 lathe. A Miller 180 MIG, Hypertherm 380, Princess auto band saw, TurboCAD and some laser steel cutting by HD  LaserTech did the rest. 





 

This vehicle adds to my steam bicycle that you might have seen on the CBC a few weeks ago, and a steam boat that we often cruise on Chestermere Lake. I think it would be the only operating steam powered boat and bicycle in Alberta, and the horseless carriage should be unique as well.


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## Tom O (Jul 28, 2020)

I Very cool! What do you use for gland packing?  So far I have had no luck and am looking at ordinary gland material for plumbing but I’m not sure about the heat.


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## DPittman (Jul 28, 2020)

Todd McBride said:


> This 1900 vintage steam powered "horseless carriage" is the "two door hard top" version of the Cochrane Ranch Steam Locomobile, the first car in Alberta (Its at the Reynolds in Wetaskiwin)
> 
> Right now it has a 36V electric drive that will be used for parades (0-10kph), plus a 6hp gasoline drive that provides a "road gear" (0-25kph). In the next month or so I will build a boiler and 2 cylinder double acting steam engine of about 1hp that should run the car at parade speeds. I need to keep the boiler small enough that it is exempt from all the $$inspections prescribed for larger boilers posing a public safety risk. The original Locomobiles had a much larger boiler to supply 300psi steam to a 5.5hp engine.
> 
> ...


Looking forward to seeing that completed project as well. Good stuff.


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## Todd McBride (Jul 28, 2020)

Tom O said:


> I Very cool! What do you use for gland packing?  So far I have had no luck and am looking at ordinary gland material for plumbing but I’m not sure about the heat.


I found the plumbing stuff to be quite inadequate for steam because the temperatures are too high for simple plastic based packings. My online research found that graphite filled teflon would be ideal due to its low friction, high temperature tolerance and low thermal expansion coeficient. But I could never find an economical source for a bit of bar stock to turn my own seals on my CX 709 lathe. Finally found some "plain" teflon and turned rod and steam valve seals from it that seam to work. I will try piston seals from FluidSeal AB (they are in Cgy and have an online store) since they claim to have high temperature rated teflow materials that are affordable.

Another issue is oil. Steam seems to flash off the lighter components of even the saponified steam oils leaving a very heavy goo that I don't think worked well with the small two cycle engine rings I tried to use. The blowby was always way high. Will try running the teflon and FuidSeal AB seals "dry" to avoid that gooey residue.


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## Tom O (Jul 28, 2020)

Thats what I thought about the temperatures reached I did find a place a good year ago that would sell me some 1/8 graphite material but they wanted around $200.00 for it needless to say I didn’t get it. I’m sitting here now wondering why I didn’t ask who they sell it to.    I have about 6 inches of 3/8 in 1/16 strands that I’ll use in a pinch that I found in my dads Tool box. The rings I have were bought on line from a steam place I’ll have to look who it was.


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## Todd McBride (Jul 28, 2020)

Tom O said:


> That's what I thought about the temperatures reached I did find a place a good year ago that would sell me some 1/8 graphite material but they wanted around $200.00 for it needless to say I didn’t get it. I’m sitting here now wondering why I didn’t ask who they sell it to.    I have about 6 inches of 3/8 in 1/16 strands that I’ll use in a pinch that I found in my dads Tool box. The rings I have were bought on line from a steam place I’ll have to look who it was.


I bought some graphite cord packing off an Amazon site and it didn't prove adequate either. I just got a foot or so of it, a roll was $$$. Where did you buy your rings, what steam place? I couldn't find anyone selling those in the 1.5-2.0 range until I found the FluidSeal AB site.

I see my Semple engine (3" x 4") in the steamboat has "plastic" seals of some sort though I haven't had them out for a few years. They certainly don't leak much and have lasted well at 140psi & 300'F, with a bit of Chevron steam oil (mostly for the "D" style steam valve). Couldn't find any details about them online and don't know where I will ever replace them, if necessary.


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## Tom O (Jul 28, 2020)

I got them from  https://www.stuartmodels.com/  their add says to 2” and over 2” they are the type that meet flush not overlapping I haven’t tried them in the bore yet I’m not at that stage yet the gland material they sent is yarn/graphite it looks thin to me.


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## Tom O (Jul 28, 2020)

Just out of curiosity what is the size of your prop I hear they are big on the Steamboats 14” on some.


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## Todd McBride (Jul 29, 2020)

Tom O said:


> Just out of curiosity what is the size of your prop I hear they are big on the Steamboats 14” on some.


Yup, I'm running a 3 blade 17" prop


 on a 21' boat and driving it to hull speed of about 5kn at full steam. I think the engine is turning around 500rpm when you push it. We usually cruise it at 2-3knots rather than firing the boiler so hard and stressing the engine.

Now I need to invent some way to keep the dang weeds in Chestermere from building up on that prop.


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## Todd McBride (Jul 29, 2020)

Tom O said:


> I got them from  https://www.stuartmodels.com/  their add says to 2” and over 2” they are the type that meet flush not overlapping I haven’t tried them in the bore yet I’m not at that stage yet the gland material they sent is yarn/graphite it looks thin to me.


I bought some ordinary graphite and was going to graphite some yard or cotton, before I made the packing "beads" out of teflon on my lathe.

Those Stuart rings look a lot like the ones I bought off Amazon for small engines at a fraction of the price, under $2.00 ea in a pack of 10. I tried one, then two on my piston with the end gaps offset, and only .004 piston clearance. Still wasted a good fraction of my steam. The blow-by is insignificant for a display engine running under no load at negligible steam pressure (<10psi) but for my bicycle the blow-by at 130psi just had to be deal with.


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## RobinHood (Jul 29, 2020)

You probably have seen this company:

https://adpistonring.com/steam-engine-piston-rings.html


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## Tom O (Jul 29, 2020)

No I haven’t but it’s bookmarked now Although they say 2” and up, my high pressure cyl is 1 1/2”. Wow 17” prop I was thinking 14 or so But on a 21 foot craft it sounds about right.


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