# PM Research Unmachined Casting Kits



## Tomc938 (Feb 1, 2022)

Anyone have experience with PM Research steam engine kits?  I'd appreciate it if you would share your experiences.


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## deleted_user (Feb 1, 2022)

Tomc938 said:


> Anyone have experience with PM Research steam engine kits?  I'd appreciate it if you would share your experiences.



They're fine for what you pay. I've made a #4 and a #6 but at the time lacked an appropriate boiler to power them, so i ran them on compressed air.

Those are rated 1/4. I found the plans that they were based on. I just wished they were a bit larger. I wanted to have a steam engine that could turn a generator. I have no faith in humanity avoiding the apocalypse. I designed a larger version with the goal to make castings if I ever get my shit together.

For comparison, the PM#5 is about the same as the Stuart V10 at half the cost....


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## YotaBota (Feb 1, 2022)

The #5 is on my list once the 10V is done. I like the fittings and might incorporate some into the 10V.
I'm guessing you've watch a bunch of the utube videos on the PM engines.


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## deleted_user (Feb 1, 2022)

YotaBota said:


> The #5 is on my list once the 10V is done. I like the fittings and might incorporate some into the 10V.
> I'm guessing you've watch a bunch of the utube videos on the PM engines.


actually I haven't really. I was into live stream before youtube became a thing with pretty much everything


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## Tomc938 (Feb 1, 2022)

YotaBota said:


> The #5 is on my list once the 10V is done. I like the fittings and might incorporate some into the 10V.
> I'm guessing you've watch a bunch of the utube videos on the PM engines.


I have been watching videos on MANY things.  Would like to give a steam engine a go.  Like the Stuart engines, and heard good things about them.  I haven't heard so much about the PM Research kits.  

Did some checking, and the shipping cost to Canada is a bit off-putting.  50% of the cost of the kit for shipping.


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## Ken Mach (Feb 1, 2022)

I’ve done 3 of their kits, the castings for the most part are very well made, drawings are excellent and all fasteners are included. Shipping cost are big draw back but if you can swallow that you won’t be disappointed.


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## Tomc938 (Feb 2, 2022)

Ken Mach said:


> I’ve done 3 of their kits, the castings for the most part are very well made, drawings are excellent and all fasteners are included. Shipping cost are big draw back but if you can swallow that you won’t be disappointed.


Thanks everyone!

I have decided to bite the bullet and pay USPS a crazy amount to ship #3 steam engine kit.


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## YYCHM (Feb 2, 2022)

@TorontoBuilder - Generator size






						Reliable Steam
					

Website(s) for Reliable Steam Engine



					www.reliablesteam.com
				









						Steam Engines and Kits
					

steam and electric launches and       tugboats, steam boilers, steam engines, electric launches are       manufactured. Delivery of stgeam power plants and boats       worldwide.



					www.steamboating.net


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## deleted_user (Feb 2, 2022)

Tomc938 said:


> Thanks everyone!
> 
> I have decided to bite the bullet and pay USPS a crazy amount to ship #3 steam engine kit.


I've always picked mine up during regular visits over the border in the past. 

post trump I informed all my US relations that they're all dead to me and I shall never again venture south. Is the USPS any more expensive than Stuart's shipping costs


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## deleted_user (Feb 2, 2022)

YYCHM said:


> @TorontoBuilder - Generator size
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, I used to troll reliable steam often but haven't been back in years. 

I have plans, I even started making a few patterns. I need the cast iron casting facility before I can proceed


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## Tomc938 (Feb 2, 2022)

TorontoBuilder said:


> Yes, I used to troll reliable steam often but haven't been back in years.
> 
> I have plans, I even started making a few patterns. I need the cast iron casting facility before I can proceed


What plans do you have?  Interested in selling?


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## deleted_user (Feb 2, 2022)

I have several old plans that are public domain that I've gathered over the years but I have to get into old desktop to retrieve them. I'll try to remember to pull them out next time I am on that computer. And I have my own design, but it is completely untested and therefore I don't want to share that yet. 

At one time I'd hoped to be able to sell the plans and a casting kit together but I have not been able to work out a satisfactory arrangement with a local ontario foundry


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## YotaBota (Feb 2, 2022)

Tomc938 said:


> I have decided to bite the bullet and pay USPS a crazy amount to ship #3 steam engine kit.


I'll be following your build.
The Stuart 10V with shipping comes to $241.49cdn plus whatever cdn taxes might be added.


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## Tomc938 (Feb 3, 2022)

TorontoBuilder said:


> I have several old plans that are public domain that I've gathered over the years but I have to get into old desktop to retrieve them. I'll try to remember to pull them out next time I am on that computer. And I have my own design, but it is completely untested and therefore I don't want to share that yet.
> 
> At one time I'd hoped to be able to sell the plans and a casting kit together but I have not been able to work out a satisfactory arrangement with a local ontario foundry


If you can locate those public domain plans and post them that would be awesome!  I have cast Al in the past, and hope to make the jump to iron in the next couple of summers.


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## Tomc938 (Feb 3, 2022)

YotaBota said:


> I'll be following your build.
> The Stuart 10V with shipping comes to $241.49cdn plus whatever cdn taxes might be added.


I came up with an elegant solution to cut the $50 shipping for the kit in half - I just ordered 2 kits right away!  Not sure if it makes sense, but I'd rather pay $25 each to ship two kits than $50 to ship one.  I also got the #1 engine.

I'm hoping to be in the UK the summer of 2024 and want to swing past Stuart and pick up a few kits when shipping is free.  Long ways away, we'll see how it goes.


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## deleted_user (Feb 3, 2022)

Tomc938 said:


> If you can locate those public domain plans and post them that would be awesome!  I have cast Al in the past, and hope to make the jump to iron in the next couple of summers.


Will do

I should add, you can find many steam engine designs and plans in late 1800s books available on open library. Now admittedly you have to look at many books to find designs with enough of the design to copy and scale down. Sadly in many cases the idiots that scanned books often failed to scan every image fully. They frequently skipped fold out pages. that is how i managed to derive my plans


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## graig (Feb 3, 2022)

Quinn Dunkey (Blondyhacks) & Joe Pieczynski have built several and published them in You Tube videos. I highly recommend Joe Pi's for the education that he provides.


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## YotaBota (Feb 3, 2022)

@Tomc938 - that's the spirit, spend another $100 to save $25, lol you must be a Scotsman 
Just for that I'll follow both builds.
Here's a couple of sites I've saved;


			Elmers Engines Steam Engine Plans
		

https://www.mainsteam.co.uk/  -  Kieth Appleton's site


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## Susquatch (Feb 3, 2022)

Tomc938 said:


> I came up with an elegant solution to cut the $50 shipping for the kit in half - I just ordered 2 kits right away!  Not sure if it makes sense, but I'd rather pay $25 each to ship two kits than $50 to ship one.  I also got the #1 engine.
> 
> I'm hoping to be in the UK the summer of 2024 and want to swing past Stuart and pick up a few kits when shipping is free.  Long ways away, we'll see how it goes.



Jezz you remind me of my wife. 

She buys all this stuff she doesn't need on sale. 

Then she tells me how much she saved me by buying it on sale. 

Then she says she is entitled to go spend what she saved me. 

Huh?


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## YotaBota (Feb 3, 2022)

If you buy enough stuff on sale, you can save enough to pay the rent


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## phaxtris (Feb 3, 2022)

How did you guys get shipping prices ? It always just says TBD when I put my address in, I've never pulled the trigger because I've been worried about having some rediclious shipping charge show up on my credit card with no way to cancle


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## Tomc938 (Feb 3, 2022)

phaxtris said:


> How did you guys get shipping prices ? It always just says TBD when I put my address in, I've never pulled the trigger because I've been worried about having some rediclious shipping charge show up on my credit card with no way to cancle


They run the shipping past you via email and then ask what you want to do.  We actually back and forthed a couple of times, and then I added to my order 3/4 through the process.  No worries about surprises.


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## Tomc938 (Feb 3, 2022)

graig said:


> Quinn Dunkey (Blondyhacks) & Joe Pieczynski have built several and published them in You Tube videos. I highly recommend Joe Pi's for the education that he provides.


I"m going through Jo Pie's with a fine toothed comb.  Excellent set up and order of operations.  I have seen a few of Quinn's, and plant o watch of of those as well.  On the other end I have seen a couple of videos of Stuart builds where they mark and machine to the line.  They seem to work in the end also.

I have a feeling this will be. a. long. process.

But I am looking forward to the learning curve.


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## Tomc938 (Feb 3, 2022)

YotaBota said:


> If you buy enough stuff on sale, you can save enough to pay the rent


I like your way of thinking!

PS: I hope to be in the UK in the summer of 2023 and pick up some Stuart kits.  I don't even know what year it is anymore.


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## phaxtris (Feb 3, 2022)

Tomc938 said:


> They run the shipping past you via email and then ask what you want to do.  We actually back and forthed a couple of times, and then I added to my order 3/4 through the process.  No worries about surprises.



Well that's a relief, if you don't mind me asking what kind of shipping prices did they quote you ?


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## Tomc938 (Feb 3, 2022)

TorontoBuilder said:


> Will do
> 
> I should add, you can find many steam engine designs and plans in late 1800s books available on open library. Now admittedly you have to look at many books to find designs with enough of the design to copy and scale down. Sadly in many cases the idiots that scanned books often failed to scan every image fully. They frequently skipped fold out pages. that is how i managed to derive my plans


Thanks John!  I have looked at some books, but you are right - there are missing pieces, or copies so poor you can't make heads or tails of them.  I don't have enough hands on experience to fill in the blanks.  Maybe after a few builds.


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## Tomc938 (Feb 3, 2022)

phaxtris said:


> Well that's a relief, if you don't mind me asking what kind of shipping prices did they quote you ?


Sure!  I'm on Vancouver Island, so international and across the continent.  They would send USPS International priority or something like that.

One kit $50 USD, two kits, $55 USD.  Or maybe one kit was $50 CAD.  Don't remember for sure, but shipping for the second was basically free.  Sucks when shipping almost equals the value of the item being shipped.  Thus the two kit order.  I can sleep with $25 for shipping.


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## phaxtris (Feb 3, 2022)

Tomc938 said:


> Sure!  I'm on Vancouver Island, so international and across the continent.  They would send USPS International priority or something like that.
> 
> One kit $50 USD, two kits, $55 USD.  Or maybe one kit was $50 CAD.  Don't remember for sure, but shipping for the second was basically free.  Sucks when shipping almost equals the value of the item being shipped.  Thus the two kit order.  I can sleep with $25 for shipping.



Yea i agree it sucks when the shipping doubles the price of something.

That's being said 50$ isn't to bad from the us from a small company, you just have to make it worth while...I see you know that trick  haha


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## YYCHM (Feb 3, 2022)

USPS is $10US min to Canada. That's what I got dinged for three tiny screws... 

I so, what to make one of these kits, but I know it will just morph into a boiler and who knows what else


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## deleted_user (Feb 3, 2022)

Tomc938 said:


> I"m going through Jo Pie's with a fine toothed comb.  Excellent set up and order of operations.  I have seen a few of Quinn's, and plant o watch of of those as well.  On the other end I have seen a couple of videos of Stuart builds where they mark and machine to the line.  They seem to work in the end also.
> 
> I have a feeling this will be. a. long. process.
> 
> But I am looking forward to the learning curve.


Check out Keith Appleton... he is in midst of lengthy series on building a stuart engine. He'll his channel is basically loaded with live steam content and he has series on machining model engineer for beginners


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## Tom O (Feb 4, 2022)

I watch Keith pretty much daily he’s the last video before bed.


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## deleted_user (Feb 4, 2022)

Mike's P.M. Research No. 6 Steam Engine
					

Hi All,  Buddy of mine at work approached me to see if I could help him complete a P.M. Research No. 6 Steam Engine kit that he bought 10 years ago. He used to work as a high school shop teacher and had access to machine tools, however not long after he bought the kit, he was laid off. He had...




					www.hobby-machinist.com
				





Tom O said:


> I watch Keith pretty much daily he’s the last video before bed.


I have watched him since his early days. I found him years ago while looking for Hammond organ information. When looking at his videos lists to see what else he might have on hammonds I saw he'd just been starting model machining videos so I thought cool, that's a subscribe.

Keith is one of the most prolific tubers I follow and I am never disappointed in his content. As Quinn says he has earned his place in the holy trinity of youtube Keiths


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## Susquatch (Feb 5, 2022)

TorontoBuilder said:


> Mike's P.M. Research No. 6 Steam Engine
> 
> 
> Hi All,  Buddy of mine at work approached me to see if I could help him complete a P.M. Research No. 6 Steam Engine kit that he bought 10 years ago. He used to work as a high school shop teacher and had access to machine tools, however not long after he bought the kit, he was laid off. He had...
> ...



I'm just not a fan of YouTube. Fundamentally, I don't like it when someone makes money because I watch them. I prefer to learn from someone who just wants to pass on their knowledge for the pure joy of doing so. Someone who takes the time to see if I am picking up what they are putting down. Someone who rewinds to explain something I missed. Someone who isn't trying to "entertain me". 

But maybe I should give youtube and Keith Appleton in particular another chance. There are enough of you guys who seem to like it.


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## DPittman (Feb 5, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> I'm just not a fan of YouTube. Fundamentally, I don't like it when someone makes money because I watch them. I prefer to learn from someone who just wants to pass on their knowledge for the pure joy of doing so. Someone who takes the time to see if I am picking up what they are putting down. Someone who rewinds to explain something I missed. Someone who isn't trying to "entertain me".
> 
> But maybe I should give youtube and Keith Appleton in particular another chance. There are enough of you guys who seem to like it.


From what I understand you have to have quite a large number of subscribers before you actually make much money.  I also think alot of the YouTubers I watch, started youtubing as a means to share and educate, not as a means to riches.


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## boilerhouse (Feb 5, 2022)

I am also a youtube fan and have been watching for 10+ years.  The creators put in a lot of work for little reward.  The videos I watch are meant to educate firstly, then entertain.  Unless they have  100's of thousands of viewers, the money is not great.  There is a lot of work to make a  quality video - camera, angles, lighting and a ton of other factors, then the real work is the editing.  Hours of "behind the scenes" effort to be able to upload a 30 minute video. And here is the kicker - once it is all done, the sheer volume of incredibly negative comments from viewers who have not paid a cent for this content.  I admire all the creators - I figure the least i can do is "like" their videos.


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## deleted_user (Feb 5, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> I'm just not a fan of YouTube. Fundamentally, I don't like it when someone makes money because I watch them. I prefer to learn from someone who just wants to pass on their knowledge for the pure joy of doing so. Someone who takes the time to see if I am picking up what they are putting down. Someone who rewinds to explain something I missed. Someone who isn't trying to "entertain me".
> 
> But maybe I should give youtube and Keith Appleton in particular another chance. There are enough of you guys who seem to like it.



When it comes to first learning model engineering and how to machine castings, you have far fewer choices than other hobbies. You can gain a lot from hobby magazines but sometimes you need to see video to get points across.

I dont gripe if a person makes money on youtube. My gripes are normally about how they do it. Keith does it right....


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## kevin.decelles (Feb 5, 2022)

TorontoBuilder said:


> I dont gripe if a person makes money on youtube.


I try to just worry about myself and what is in my domain.....  11pm desperation youtube watches have saved my bacon so many times over the years, I applaud anyone who can document a technique/tool/method to do something I haven't thought about.   

I was changing out the transfer case on a Ford Ranger, and I watched everything I could find.  Most of the professional videos were of shops with 100K worth of tools/hoists.....  I found a video of some 'good-ol-boys' from Kentucky that went out with a shovel and dug a hole (a pit)  in the ground in the heart of what looked like Hazard County... kept expecting Bo and Luke Duke to show up......  Then when reassembling it, the guy said "I've done a lot of these, the easiest way is to lay on your back, put the case on your chest (80 lbs) and slide it one this-way........  damned if that didn't work like a charm!  

My feeling is that anything you do for money will lose its shine over time......  told my kids, do something you like for a living, do something you love for a hobby.


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## Susquatch (Feb 5, 2022)

I didn't expect my view on YouTube would be popular. If it was, there would be no tubers out there.... 

I don't watch sports either but that doesn't mean I think others should be like me. I'm happy to see others happy watching sports. 

Life is great!


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## deleted_user (Feb 5, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> I didn't expect my view on YouTube would be popular. If it was, there would be no tubers out there....
> 
> I don't watch sports either but that doesn't mean I think others should be like me. I'm happy to see others happy watching sports.
> 
> Life is great!


just watch this one video....


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## DPittman (Feb 5, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> I didn't expect my view on YouTube would be popular. If it was, there would be no tubers out there....
> 
> I don't watch sports either but that doesn't mean I think others should be like me. I'm happy to see others happy watching sports.
> 
> Life is great!


Ha ha I don't watch sports either which is not particularly a common thing either.


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## YYCHM (Feb 5, 2022)

DPittman said:


> Ha ha I don't watch sports either which is not particularly a common thing either.



That makes 3 of us weirdos


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## Proxule (Feb 5, 2022)

TorontoBuilder said:


> just watch this one video....


I do not like his assumption that the core is indeed central - I would of indicated the outside, Especially considering that it will not be machined or altered - then boring the hole. 
He has good videos otherwise!


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## Tomc938 (Feb 5, 2022)

YYCHM said:


> That makes 3 of us weirdos


4!


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## Susquatch (Feb 5, 2022)

TorontoBuilder said:


> just watch this one video....



Ooooookayyyyy..... Just this one.....

But not right now. Maybe later tonight after the wife has had her way with me.

But for the record, I have watched the odd YouTube video you know. I just don't do it until I've exhausted other avenues such as asking questions here on the forum. I'd much rather learn from you guys cuz there is more combined knowledge and experience on this forum than on any YouTube video I could imagine in my wildest dreams.

And then there are the jokes and the debates that are all worth their weight in gold!


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## boilerhouse (Feb 5, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> I didn't expect my view on YouTube would be popular. If it was, there would be no tubers out there....
> 
> I don't watch sports either but that doesn't mean I think others should be like me. I'm happy to see others happy watching sports.
> 
> Life is great!


Didn't mean to come across as offensive.  While I don't think too many are getting rich from their channels, there is a minority who do flog promotional products without identifying that these were freebies from manufacturers.  It's unethical and I don't watch those channels either.


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## deleted_user (Feb 5, 2022)

Tomc938 said:


> 4!


5


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## phaxtris (Feb 8, 2022)

TorontoBuilder said:


> 5


6


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## DPittman (Feb 8, 2022)

Ha ha maybe this is where all us weirdos hang out


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## Everett (Feb 8, 2022)

I'd be #7 for unsportsmanlike conduct, lol . . .


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