# A blast from the past - moving a mill



## Dabbler (Apr 13, 2022)

A member asked me about moving a mill up an incline, so here's a picture:


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## Chicken lights (Apr 13, 2022)

Dabbler said:


> A member asked me about moving a mill up an incline, so here's a picture:
> 
> View attachment 23033


Where is most of the weight on the average (full sized) mill? I assumed the base was heaviest but there always looked to be weight in the head too


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## Dabbler (Apr 13, 2022)

Chicken lights said:


> Where is most of the weight on the average



With the knee all the way down and the head inverted, The CoG is still about table height or a touch higher. That's because the mill is reinforced where the ram turns, making the column heavier at the top, by a little.

The turret weighs 75 lbs and the ram weighs 250 lbs.  The milling head alone is about 160-180 lbs.  The knee weighs about 200 lbs, and the milling table on a 42" mill weighs about 225 lbs.  Th XY yoke for the table weighs a puny 35 lbs.   The base on a Hartford 42" and a BP 42" is around 900 lbs, with the rest in the knee, ram and head. 

The average weight of a BP or BPclone is about 2000 lbs.

My Modern 9X34 is 1875 lbs, and my First 9X49 weighs in at 3400 lbs.

Ever since I got that crane scale...


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## Tecnico (Apr 13, 2022)

OK, I'll fess up, that's me asking about loading a mill onto a Jerr-Dan ramp truck.  I'll start a thread about the acquisition soon when I have more time - life & work keep getting in the way and in fact delay the process.

That photo shows plenty of thinking, planning and team work all key to a successful operation.  The beer cooler must be at the destination?

Here's a video I tripped over (Machinery Moving Video) that shows good practice, starting at the lifting lever to get it up on blocks (making a note to make one if I have the time), using a pallet jack (which I don't have) to move things and loading on a ramp truck.

I've designed and started to build a dolly with 4 steel casters (4" wheels) but the truck guy says he doesn't use them and just slides the equipment up the ramp with the winch and for offloading tilts the bed until things slide.  Not so sure about that last part.....

Anyhow can't wait to get my hands on the machine.

D

EDIT:  I see Dabbler has added more info, you must have a BIG First machine!  Long Chang/First claim ~2200 lb for my LC1 1/2TM.  My c of g will be slightly higher because it comes with a 4" riser.


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## kevin.decelles (Apr 13, 2022)

That was my move in the picture , and my motto now is that you can do anything with the right number of John(s) from this forum , and a Rudy.

A built a set of toe jacks for this move that have paid me back many many times.  I learned a lot and can’t wait to see your pics


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## Dabbler (Apr 13, 2022)

I haven't fessed up before, but the most but-puckering time I had was to raise Bert's surface grinder up  and lower it onto the 4 wheel dolly...

Because my gantry crane was already out of the basement, I hed to do it with levers and cribbing.  I had to crib it almost 12" off the floor before I could wheel the dolly under the beams.  I then had to lower the cribbing, until the beams were on the cart, then reraise it to get the beams out.  All in all, it took 7 hours.


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## Dabbler (Apr 13, 2022)

Here's a  short video by a woodworker about moving heavy equipment.  It is good general advice and shows off many of the toys.


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## Six O Two (Apr 13, 2022)

Tecnico said:


> OK, I'll fess up, that's me asking about loading a mill onto a Jerr-Dan ramp truck.
> 
> ...
> 
> the truck guy says he doesn't use them and just slides the equipment up the ramp with the winch and for offloading tilts the bed until things slide.  Not so sure about that last part.....



Thats how my mill arrived. Loaded with a forklift onto a towing company's tilt bed wrecker at the freight company's depot, then slid off the deck right in front of my garage with the winch. I can't remember if I had to slip 1" round bar under it to get it rolling or not. Might have been the case. I do remember I had to coax it a bit to get it moving. Despite that, it was surprisingly drama free.

I'd do it again. And if I needed to get a mill onto the flat bed, I'd just bolt it to a really sturdy custom wooden pallet with some 4x4 skids. The winch would have no problem pulling it up onto the bed.


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## Chicken lights (Apr 14, 2022)

Tecnico said:


> I've designed and started to build a dolly with 4 steel casters (4" wheels) but the truck guy says he doesn't use them and just slides the equipment up the ramp with the winch and for offloading tilts the bed until things slide.  Not so sure about that last part......


Most tilt n load trucks have “skates”, pieces of plastic they’ll put under dead equipment or vehicles to make winching easier. Another trick is to use dish soap on the deck, get the deck slippery and stuff slides off and on easier. Quick trip to a car wash and the decks clean. So in all likelihood he’s not kidding, about tilting the deck until stuff slides. With the winch controlling the rate of descent its (usually) quite safe

The other half of that coin is its much nicer just securing equipment to a deck, once it’s on casters it can be more squirrelly.


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## Tecnico (Apr 14, 2022)

LOL! A clean deck is a happy deck!  BTW, I like hearing from someone who has trucked a few loads around the country, experience is worth listening to.

I had my Wile E. Coyote thinking cap on when contemplating the castors and planned to raise the dolly off the castors and set the chassis down on lumber for the trip, the best of both worlds.  The original use for the dolly was to move the machine around the shop.

So, now that I've thought a bit more and the Friday morning window for the ramp truck guy slipped away I'm feeling out renting a U-haul 6 x 12 dual axle trailer that comes with a ramp.  The ramp would have to be protected but the trailer would give me the flexibility to do the move when I wanted to vs. when it works for the truck guy .....and the seller (cat herding,...).  I'll have to swing by U-Haul and look over their trailer to see if the mill would break it!  Price would be about half the ramp truck guy too FWIW.

Appreciate the discussion, keep the thoughts coming!

D


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## Dabbler (Apr 14, 2022)

@Tecnico You might consider a trailer that lowers its bed, available from Sunbelt Rentals.

I moved a lathe on a HDepot trailer (exactly like UHaul) and it was torture.  Never again.

The ramp was too short.  lack of tie downs.  Tie downs too light / or too small for my hooks.  I had all of this on a single trailer.


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## Brent H (Apr 14, 2022)

If you look closely at the first
Picture @Dabbler is just lowering the mill off with one hand - sort of like “bless you mill, descend to the ground now”.  Quite amazing!  The “mill whisperer” in action. 

First mill was neat and tidy -
Fork Lift in and fork lift out.   Set it into a wheeled frame and rolled it about the shop. 

Second mill was fork lift onto the trailer and essentially same off load as depicted by the Mill Whisperer.  

First lathe was lifted into and out of the trailer by my son. - not sure how the heck he did it. Said it was heavy - yes, like 1000 lbs lathe and base - not sure and he won’t say

Second lathe was pipe rolled across the floor, engine hoisted in and out of trailer (remove base to keep centre of gravity low).  

Third lathe was in a basement - done with that type of move - it was a combination strip the lathe, engine hoist around corners, muscle to the stairs on roller carts, plywood line the stairs and then muscle/winch up the stairs, muscle/winch/ chain fall onto the trailer.  Gravity helped with off load.  

Fourth lathe was in pieces already so it was lighter and we basically hand bombed it onto the trailer after separating from the bed. 

Just make sure to Follow @Dabbler ‘s advice to lower the knee all the way, swivel the head so it is upside down and make sure the y axis is in to the turret and the head is in the lifting position


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## Dabbler (Apr 14, 2022)

I prefer Method 2.  Not everybody's ram castings are super thick, and it becomes a single point of failure with a high stress concentration.

method 2 distributes the forces ti a wider area on the ram, and allows a measure of control over the tilt.


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## Brent H (Apr 14, 2022)

You can also advance the ram (if it is not seized) and insert the forks under the points to lift - be sure to add some wood to protect the ram.  (Same load points as example 2)


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## Tecnico (Apr 14, 2022)

I keep hearing about Sunbelt Rentals, it would appear that I don't live in the sunbelt!  Yeah, one of those kneeling trailers would be great.

I'm skeptical of pretty much anything U-haul, although I have had good luck with one of their half tons + a car trailer.  Expensive though.  All the more reason to scout them out if they're an option.

D


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## YYCHM (Apr 14, 2022)

I need some fresh eyes to look at my lifting set-up. Safe or Not?
					

@John Conroy You are taking a risk in bolting to the table.  Use a 2000lb ratchet strap to the base, and lift the top corner with that.  The maximum load from that point will be around 700 lbs.  I'd feel bad if the table blows out.




					canadianhobbymetalworkers.com


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## Six O Two (Apr 14, 2022)

I've loaded and unloaded lathes into a 5x7 uhaul trailer with an engine hoist.  As @Dabbler mentions, it's... unpleasant. The trailer's ramp, high sides, and tires all conspire with the engine hoist legs to make things really difficult.


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## PaulL (Apr 14, 2022)

Dabbler said:


> I haven't fessed up before, but the most but-puckering time I had was to raise Bert's surface grinder up  and lower it onto the 4 wheel dolly...
> 
> Because my gantry crane was already out of the basement, I hed to do it with levers and cribbing.  I had to crib it almost 12" off the floor before I could wheel the dolly under the beams.  I then had to lower the cribbing, until the beams were on the cart, then reraise it to get the beams out.  All in all, it took 7 hours.


I like moving heavy things.  And I like to do it alone, removing any possibility of someone helpfully trying to just "heft it along".
I've moved this saw 4 times now with rollers and a pallet jack:




My small power hammer is *too* portable.  Three silly contractors decided to move it themselves to get it out their way one day.  Only one of them needed stiches afterwards, so they got off easy.


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## Dabbler (Apr 14, 2022)

I love to move heavy things also.  Cribbing a surface grinder with a 18X24 base 12" off the ground when the COG is neasr the top is worrying.  I should have put it on the dolly while the gantry was right there.  I didn't for *reasons*.


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## PaulL (Apr 14, 2022)

Dabbler said:


> I love to move heavy things also.  Cribbing a surface grinder with a 18X24 base 12" off the ground when the COG is neasr the top is worrying.  I should have put it on the dolly while the gantry was right there.  I didn't for *reasons*.


I did actually purchase a gantry this year, to go with the new shop.  Life-changing.


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## Six O Two (Apr 14, 2022)

I don't know if I'd say I *like* to move heavy things alone, but... I do *have* a lot of heavy things, and not too many friends, so... that's how that goes.  It is oddly satisfying though.


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