# 10” Utilathe (Miss Metric) Overhaul Repair



## Brent H (Nov 25, 2021)

Hello!

So this is the thread where I will post a bunch on overhauling and making some repairs to a 10” Standard Modern Utilathe that has been converted to metric (ish).  The lead screw is 7/8” x 4 mm pitch.  The cross feed is 1/2” x 2.5 mm LH and the compound is 1/2” x 2.5 mm RH.  The conversion to the metric lead screw allows for most of the important metric threads. 

The lathe is missing the threading dial and that will be an upcoming project. The lathe also needs a new cross feed nut and I have a trapezoidal 1/2 x 2.5 mm LH tap.  This will be one of the first items built and then I can create some of the other items that require a metric pitch.

I will not have to do a lot of tearing apart and gabbing from scratch like my other Utilathe. That story is here: https://canadianhobbymetalworkers.c...irs-on-a-10-ld-utilathe-standard-modern.1475/

I will be doing mostly a cosmetic update and making a few parts. That being said, if anyone needs some focus placed on anything in particular let me know and I can adapt the thread.  I will try and do a decent job on the set up, alignment from scratch and adjustments to get a lathe dialled in. 

As a bunch of you guys are aware I just got home and will be off to Calgary tomorrow morning.  I stripped the lathe this morning - everything looks great.


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## trlvn (Nov 25, 2021)

Brent H said:


> The lathe is missing the threading dial and that will be an upcoming project.


Somewhere, and I'm sorry that I can't remember where, I saw postings about using a 3D printer to reproduce a threading dial.  Since there is no load to be concerned about, it seemed like a real possibility.  Even just printing the gear would probably save time.  

Of course, you'd need the gear modelled in 3D but there is an open source library for that:









						Getriebe Bibliothek für OpenSCAD / Gears Library for OpenSCAD by janssen86
					

OpenSCAD Bibliothek für Evolventen-Zahnräder, Schnecken und Zahnstangen  Eine Bibliothek zur parametrischen Erzeugung von Stirn-, Hohl- und Kegelrädern, Schnecken und Zahnstangen sowie von Zusammensetzungen. Die deutschen Begriffe werden gemäß der Definitionen in DIN 868 verwendet. Zu Begriffen...




					www.thingiverse.com
				




FWIW

Craig


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## YotaBota (Nov 25, 2021)

And it has a "tail stock!!!!!!!!"
Have a safe trip.
Fare winds and following seas.


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## Tom O (Nov 25, 2021)

If memory serves Johnwa posted that found on Thingiverse I believe.


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## YYCHM (Nov 25, 2021)

I've seen lots of 3D printed threading dials listed on Ebay.  Mostly SB clones though.


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## Brent H (Nov 25, 2021)

There probably will not be any “printed” gears.  Gotta go hard core. Plus, I don’t have a printer, access to a printer, or anyone that does. Also, by the time I drew the gears, I will have made them.  LOL.  Plus, with @Johnwa pics and some math/measure I should be able to create a close to original- but better  

Project right now is relaxing until about 10 days from now when I get home, finish the keg of beer and wake up 2 days later ……


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## YYCHM (Nov 29, 2021)

Anything of interest to you here Brent?









						Kijiji - Buy, Sell & Save with Canada's #1 Local Classifieds
					

Visit Kijiji Classifieds to buy, sell, or trade almost anything! New and used items, cars, real estate, jobs, services, vacation rentals and more virtually anywhere.




					www.kijiji.ca


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## Brent H (Dec 9, 2021)

@YYCHM - late response but the Kijiji add you have has been there for many months.  The parts are expensive and I have made them in house.

After returning from a great adventure to Calgary I have been cleaning things up on the lathe and hope to re-assemble the lathe over the next few days.  I will have a pause for paint and a few other jobs. 
The before:






The after:






Cleaned other parts:





The head stock 





This will get sanded and masked for paint 

Stripping the chip tray:






Hopefully will have things set for paint ASAP

Parts to make: new cross feed nut, thread dial, levelling foot

Parts to install: Gits oilers, sight glass, missing cap screws etc.


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## kevin.decelles (Dec 10, 2021)

what are you brushing on in your last photo?


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## David_R8 (Dec 10, 2021)

kevin.decelles said:


> what are you brushing on in your last photo?


Looks like gel paint stripper. 
@Brent H your shop is too organized!


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## Brent H (Dec 10, 2021)

@kevin.decelles - yes @David_R8 is correct - it is an “environmental friendly” paint stripper.  It works well to get rid of the old hard grease and oils as well as the paint.  The lathe pan (at least for me) can stay unpainted as the cutting oils etc keep things pretty no rust.  Heated shop also helps 

@David_R8 - I try to keep organized, it helps with being away a month at a time and then trying to find stuff - saying that, there are a bunch of messes I need to fix.  Having those “parts” and not able to find things dives me nuts. - LOL


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## David_R8 (Dec 10, 2021)

Brent H said:


> @David_R8 - I try to keep organized, it helps with being away a month at a time and then trying to find stuff - saying that, there are a bunch of messes I need to fix.  Having those “parts” and not able to find things dives me nuts. - LOL


I totally hear you! My shop is too small and I have too many on-the-go projects. I did manage to move my bike trainer setup to the basement so that cleared up some space which was promptly occupied by the return of my 12" compound mitre saw from my nephew.
Sigh...


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## Susquatch (Dec 10, 2021)

I prefer organized chaos.


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## Brent H (Dec 13, 2021)

So today Miss Metric got her lipstick applied and will be matching Mr Imperial.  













This will allow me to re-assemble the Lathe to the point that I do not have pieces all over the place.  

The longitudinal feed gear on the lathe needs to be repaired in way of the front screw as the threads are stripped out.  A new nut for the  cross feed out of bronze and I think I might weld up the longitudinal feed handle that was smashed.  It is still a sexy part - heavy and well made, just can’t let it get binned. I have some new guys oilers to pop in and a new sight glass for the headstock.  Should be nice!


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## David_R8 (Dec 13, 2021)

Looks amazing! Did you use a rattle-can or gun for that?


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## Brent H (Dec 13, 2021)

@David_R8 : I have the Fuji spray system - the Mini mite 4 with an older style HVLP gun.  It is not cheap by any means and when I first bought it it was a great deal.  Fuji was just starting out (sort of). I made them a chart for their gun tips and such.

I used the same paint (the farm implement paint) they used to carry at Peavy Mart or TSC.  

I find now, that since so much is going water based (the farm paint is not) it is easy to just buy a gallon or small can and spray away.   The Fuji was bought for spraying cabinets etc. but has helped refirb lathes, lawn tractors etc etc. 

I blew up the 3 stage I had after 14 years of use.


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## Brent H (Dec 14, 2021)

Another day working on the young lady to get her up to working order. 

Utilathes of this vintage have a few  quirks that make adjustments difficult.  A few other things can be fixed very quickly.  The drive gear for the feed box is pinned to the shaft with a brass 1/8” dowel.  Easy solution is a 1/8 brazing rod with the flux knocked off. 










The head stock is secured with 2 strong backs that lock it to the ways.  The back one is held with just one bolt.  To get at it you need to remove the 4 Allen screws that hold the feed box idler gear and the seal for the high/low speed plunger.  The operation above (putting in the brass rod) should be done after you tighten the back screw down - or you have to pull the gear off again. 






I needed to make a new quill lock for the tailstock so I whipped that up quick out of some 3/4” cold rolled.  





 And put a screw driver slot in the new one to avoid any vice grip action. 






Gear train all back on:




Nice looking piece of tail…….stock:






Some projects remaining on the lathe - repair to carriage handle, new cross feed nut and a new foot for levelling the lathe. 






I will get the electric motor up to speed soon enough - need to fashion a FWD/REV switch handle.


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## Susquatch (Dec 14, 2021)

Wow! Miss metric is looking drop dead gorgeous!


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## trlvn (Dec 14, 2021)

Miss Metric is 3 phase powered?  I don't think I picked that up before.  It appears you have a VFD ready to supply the 'go juice'.  If that is the case, wouldn't you just use the VFD's controls for forward/reverse rather than repairing the broken switch handle?

Craig


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## Brent H (Dec 14, 2021)

Hey @trlvn - yes Craig the lathe is 3 phase as I my other lathe and mill.  I am essentially just using the VFD to give me the third phase and then I use the headstock in all it’s geared glory.  I don’t use the VFD for any speed control.  It does yield the benefit of braking - which is nice.  

I like using a larger forward and reverse switch wired through the VFD logic but I want to keep my oily dirty fingers off the control pad  and not having to look away from the lathe to find a small button. 

The original control was interesting, a single throw three pole “light switch” allowed power to the machine, that went to a relay box with the motor starter circuit.  You selected FWD or REV and then pushed the start button, push the stop to interrupt power to stop the motor.  There is a blank cover for what I assume would be the coolant pump - it would make for a good work light switch location.


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## Susquatch (Dec 15, 2021)

Brent H said:


> I like using a larger forward and reverse switch wired through the VFD logic but I want to keep my oily dirty fingers off the control pad and not having to look away





Brent H said:


> There is a blank cover for what I assume would be the coolant pump - it would make for a good work light switch location.



I would have assumed that you know that many VFD's can be externally wired for switches and whatnot. So you could put a big HUGE GNARLY BEEFY switch anywhere you want and not have to look away to find that "teeny" little button elsewhere....


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## Brent H (Dec 15, 2021)

Making the new cross feed nut today.

A little layout on the surface plate:









A little gold flying around:


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## trlvn (Dec 15, 2021)

Newbie-level question but...how did you determine the height of the centre of the through hole?

Craig


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## Brent H (Dec 15, 2021)

Hey @trlvn so I had the original, measured the root diameter for the threads (0.404” or a Y drill bit)

The distance from the top of the old nut to the inside thread was 0.625”.  Basically the centre of the hole had to be 0.625 + 1/2(0.404) = 0.827”. 

I set that up and scribbed the line. Then halved the width of the block (0.980/2= 0.490) and scribed that distance on the block.   I used a centre punch to create a reference mark for aligning the piece in the 4 jaw chuck.  

Using the centre hole scribe lines I was able to get the jaws in rough alignment - just a second and I will make some sketches.  

The tap I used is a trapezoidal 1/2”  x 2.5 mm pitch I bought on eBay- worked great - perfect fit.


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## Brent H (Dec 15, 2021)




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## Brent H (Dec 15, 2021)

I ran out to the shop and did this mock up for you as an example.


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## Chicken lights (Dec 15, 2021)

Yo @Brent H 

Why the three thread pitches for M10?


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## Brent H (Dec 15, 2021)

Hey @Chicken lights - there are 4 actually Dave and it’s all based on the force you want the bolt to be able to apply to a given application.  As the pitch reduces the more torque you can give the bolt so a 1.5 pitch can take a torque of 49.8 N-m for an M8.8 and as the pitch reduces- 1.25 (52.7 N-m), 1 (55.7 N-m) and 0.75 you can torque to 58.7 N-m.  

Practically speaking it gets a bit silly as you “should” go to the next size bolt.  Sometimes space is the issue and they increase the material strength or the pitch or both.  It is enough to drive you nuts / hahahaha

The car I am restoring - M7 bolts in places - difficult to find. Also some silly small M5’s in a place better suited for M 8  - argh! 

Miss Metric may get a work out!!


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## Chicken lights (Dec 15, 2021)

Brent H said:


> Hey @Chicken lights - there are 4 actually Dave and it’s all based on the force you want the bolt to be able to apply to a given application.  As the pitch reduces the more torque you can give the bolt so a 1.5 pitch can take a torque of 49.8 N-m for an M8.8 and as the pitch reduces- 1.25 (52.7 N-m), 1 (55.7 N-m) and 0.75 you can torque to 58.7 N-m.
> 
> Practically speaking it gets a bit silly as you “should” go to the next size bolt.  Sometimes space is the issue and they increase the material strength or the pitch or both.  It is enough to drive you nuts / hahahaha
> 
> ...


That’s silly, who has M5 or M7?? 

I thought it was bad enough trying to match up what M10 thread was being used. It’s “usually” m10.1.5 but man it’s hard to tell 

Metric system is goofy


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## YYCHM (Dec 15, 2021)

Chicken lights said:


> That’s silly, who has M5 or M7??
> 
> I thought it was bad enough trying to match up what M10 thread was being used. It’s “usually” m10.1.5 but man it’s hard to tell
> 
> Metric system is goofy



What does M10.1.5 stand for?


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## Brent H (Dec 15, 2021)

That would be a 10 mm diameter bolt with a 1.5 mm pitch and then you have to cypher out the grading.  Typical is 8.8 or 10.5 or 12.2  it’s all …. Argh!!


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## Chicken lights (Dec 15, 2021)

Brent H said:


> That would be a 10 mm diameter bolt with a 1.5 mm pitch and then you have to cypher out the grading.  Typical is 8.8 or 10.5 or 12.2  it’s all …. Argh!!


It makes no sense 

Back to miss metric repairs please


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## Susquatch (Dec 15, 2021)

Brent H said:


> The tap I used is a trapezoidal 1/2” x 2.5 mm pitch I bought on eBay- worked great - perfect fit.



So, not to be a trouble maker, but given my recent laugh at the Ali folks and your discussion about metric shenanigans above, I feel a bit awkward asking "what the heck is a 1/2 x 2.5?" Is that mixed metric and imperial, or is it a 1/2 inch mini auger with just 2.5 threads per inch?


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## Brent H (Dec 15, 2021)

@Susquatch : this tap is the perfect example of why dumbass scientists and theoretical types should remain in their own “space” when you enter reality. 

To “update” school learning in the big 70’s push to make Canada Metric, idiots felt the need to change lathes in school tool rooms to metric.  The Metric “system” works fine for weights and other measures but drops the ball when it comes to practical “building or creating”.  They sold this bill of divisions by 10 - make it all easy but then, it’s a lie. “It’s all based on decimals / no fractions- no ratios” total bull schite.  Gravity is like 9.81 - not “10”  thread pitch of 0.33 - yep super “10” factor  So many things could have been simpler and have some scale - 

So yep, the tap I needed is 0.500 inch outside  diameter (plus a bit of clearance) with a 2.5 mm thread pitch with a trapezoidal profile - verses a standard Acme.  

This was the way to pervert a perfectly good lathe over to a bastardized Miss Metric version and satisfying the cheap government.  

I have found that to “save the old” they pinned the gear on the cross feed screw with a roll pin and re-drilled holes rather than fitting the “0” taper pin.  - screws up back lash - fixing that.   Noticed the same on the lead screw.  Couple other mods that were poorly done to achieve sudo metrification. 

Metric has its place - someday I will find out where …..


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## Susquatch (Dec 15, 2021)

Brent H said:


> So yep, the tap I needed is 0.500 inch outside diameter (plus a bit of clearance) with a 2.5 mm thread pitch with a trapezoidal profile - verses a standard Acme.



Not to beat an old horse too much..... But 2.5mm is awful close to 10tpi.  In fact, just under two thou (1.6 thou) per thread. Ie +/- 8 thou over an inch wide nut. Might be a pretty effective equivalent to a split nut!

Is it possible that's its actually 10 TPI and simply called 1.5 for stupid sake?

How does it work after 100 turns or so?

Assuming the Leade screw really is 2.5mm, could you get away with 10tpi on just the nut?

If not, can you thread on the lathe instead of buying a wierdo tap that will cost a fortune - if you can even find it?

I think you and I are on the same page though about the stupidity of the way the whole world was turned upside down.

You might recall that my mill/drill has a similar (the opposite) lead screw problem.

I should probably fix mine too. It's just hard to justify given that I have an awesome mill that works great.


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## Susquatch (Dec 16, 2021)

Yet another thought along the same line.

Why is a metric leade screw and nut required when there is a 127 gear in the handwheel assembly? More and more I suspect that there is a metrication gremlin hiding under the skirts with a metric pen in its hand......


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## Brent H (Dec 16, 2021)

@Susquatch : yes, the 10 TPI is very close but combined with the trapezoidal tooth profile and just that hair of pitch difference- not gonna fit.  

I was able to get a custom tap made and delivered for $70 - took a chance on eBay and won! Yeh me!!  

When the conversation happened a new feed screw was assembled into the lathe.  This screw has the drive gear pinned to it with a tapered 0 pin - or let’s say that it should heave been fitted that way. The person fitting the gear did a poor job and used a roll pin in a re-drilled hole 90° offset from the original holes and not properly centred.  This gear sets the allowable movement of the cross feed table relative to the feed shaft -not including the back lash that develops on the feed screw and nut. In this lathes case you could push and pull the cross feed table 0.022” back and forth. 

Today I need to clamp the assembly- re-drill the gear/shaft pilot hole just a scoash and ream it for a proper #0 taper pin. After that  I will make a foot levelling bolt and it’s then up to the motor.


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## Hacker (Dec 16, 2021)

Brent H said:


> Hey @trlvn - yes Craig the lathe is 3 phase as I my other lathe and mill.  I am essentially just using the VFD to give me the third phase and then I use the headstock in all it’s geared glory.  I don’t use the VFD for any speed control.  It does yield the benefit of braking - which is nice.
> 
> I like using a larger forward and reverse switch wired through the VFD logic but I want to keep my oily dirty fingers off the control pad  and not having to look away from the lathe to find a small button.
> 
> _The original control was interesting, a single throw three pole “light switch” allowed power to the machine, that went to a relay box with the motor starter circuit.  You selected FWD or REV and then pushed the start button, push the stop to interrupt power to stop the motor.  There is a blank cover for what I assume would be the coolant pump - it would make for a good work light switch location._


That is a very clever use of a three way switch. I will have to remember that!!

Nice work and thanks for the update.


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## Brent H (Dec 16, 2021)

Reaming out for the taper pin.  Enlarged the hole to 1/8” and made sure the gear was held tight





Reamer now through.  Hammered in tight the taper pin, hacksaw’d it flush and then cleaned up with a file. 





Inserted into the lathe and all is good. No cross slide play and everything turns properly.  









Threaded a new 1” x 14 TPI leveller for the lathe:

Used the upside down tool bit and running in reverse as it was pretty close to the chuck for straight threading






Milled some bolt flats to give the top a 1” wrench option.  






And the reproduction:






The idea is that you level out the lathe and then bore 1/2” hold downs into concrete. Insert the hood downs or ready rod into the levellers and you can then seriously bolt the lathe to the workshop floor.


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## Susquatch (Dec 16, 2021)

Brent H said:


> Milled some bolt flats to give the top a 1” wrench option.



Very clever use of hexagonal collet holders! I wasn't planning to get one like that. Just changed my mind! 



Brent H said:


> The idea is that you level out the lathe and then bore 1/2” hold downs into concrete. Insert the hood downs or ready rod into the levellers and you can then seriously bolt the lathe to the workshop floor.



I'm jealous. My feet are hidden inside the cabinet. I had to use paint to locate them.


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## Brent H (Jan 4, 2022)

So, an exciting day in the life and times of Miss Metric.  At some point in the life of the lathe it was dropped or fell or tipped over and the apron hand wheel was pretty buggered.  In the bag of parts I found most of it - the centre (on the lathe) the wheel, and the handle.  The handle was broken off the wheel and the wheel was missing a spoke:






After some grinding, cutting fitting and lathe work - and some welding with the high nickel cast iron mig wire we had some success:





The Blue arrow is an inserted chunk of steel ground into a reasonable shape to fit and welded to the wheel.  It is slightly wonky if you put it in the lathe and rotate it at 200 rpm but it should run true enough for hand speeds on the apron 




There are a few places ai could have ground a bit nicer but @ShawnR was enroute with some tasty treats to throw over the Covid line so I counted it all good


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## David_R8 (Jan 4, 2022)

Nice work, is that wire from Blue Demon?


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## Brent H (Jan 4, 2022)

Hey @David_R8 - yes it is the devil indeed! 

I am still dialling it in - seems to run nicer on my Everlast at home.  The miller at work has too much “brain” and not as easy to fudge around the settings.


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## David_R8 (Jan 4, 2022)

Brent H said:


> Hey @David_R8 - yes it is the devil indeed!
> 
> I am still dialling it in - seems to run nicer on my Everlast at home.  The miller at work has too much “brain” and not as easy to fudge around the settings.


I was looking a buying a roll of that wire and was genuinely shocked by the price. 
Instead I bought a TIG welder so I could run silicon bronze rods! Bahahaha, clearly I failed Econ 101.


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## RobinHood (Jan 4, 2022)

Nicely done Brent.

That is one thing I did not try on my hand wheel repair on the CMT: high nickel rods. I should, just to see - got nothing to lose - I already have a replacement and it would just be nice to repair the original one…


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## 6.5 Fan (Jan 4, 2022)

Nice work. If that hand wheel gets up to 200 RPM your arm may fall off.


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## Susquatch (Jan 4, 2022)

Brent H said:


> There are a few places ai could have ground a bit nicer but



Hey, I think it's absolutely beautiful! Very well done Brent!


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## PeterT (Jan 4, 2022)

_high nickel cast iron mig wire_
Nice job. Didnt know such an animal existed. Could that wire work in TIG process or is there a TIG equivalent I wonder? That looks like it would have a lot of applications in, how do they say 'gently used' machine components. I'm not a welder but assumed braze is what stuck best, unfortunately not a great color match for iron.


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## Brent H (Jan 4, 2022)

@PeterT - I bought the first roll for the ship to try and fix a cast iron valve body.  It worked well so I tried it out at home.  It wasn’t so costly for my first roll (2lb) at the time I bought it. I welded up my son’s exhaust manifold that was split In half. Was still 100% 2 years later. 

I am still trying to get the heat right for max penetration- it is 0.035 wire. Not sure if they make a 0.030?  

If you check out my Cincinnati rebuild it was great!!


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## David_R8 (Jan 4, 2022)

Not to hijack @Brent H 's thread...
I think this is the wire. $148 for a 2 lb roll 








						Nickel 55 Cast Iron MIG Wire
					

ENiFe-CI Nickel 55 welding wire is designed for welding gray iron castings to themselves as well as joining them to mild steel. It can also be used to repair castings. The welds are moderately hard and require carbide tipped tools for post weld machining. Free shipping across Canada




					canadaweldingsupply.ca
				



Sorry only .035 and .045.

I think this this is the TIG rod








						ERNi-CI Nickel Alloy 55 Cast Iron TIG Rod
					

Blue Demon ERNi-CI Nickel alloy 55 Cast Iron TIG Rod available from Canada Welding Supply. Free shipping across Canada




					canadaweldingsupply.ca


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## Brent H (Jan 4, 2022)

@David_R8 - it is now pretty much off the charts for cost - sad - that said I have repaired way more expensive items than the roll cost. For a one time repair - nope. 

Next time, I will set up and braze it.  It may have been a better repair option.  BUT:  On the ship it takes about 2 hours to set up the oxy/acet  torches.  I will not go into it (bane of my existence) but suffice it to say: stupidity of the irresponsible condemned the responsible.  So having the MiG works well 

All that said it still takes about 1/2 hr to set up the Mig welder and then get the nut kickin that the other crew ran out the gas and didn’t get a new bottle.


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## Hacker (Jan 5, 2022)

I feel your pain. Unfortunately in large organizations it is easier to put a rule/standard/practice/procedure in place then dealing with the root cause. I call them stupid bugger rules.


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## Brent H (Jan 6, 2022)

When I was making the handle repair on the lathe I needed to cut a taper on the adaptor and so I used the compound to do this.  It was only about 3.5* so nothing serious.  I had a bugger of a time to use the compound as it was very stiff to turn.  Today I had my guys take it apart and see if there was an issue.  I had replaced the compound complete in 2019 as someone had run the part into the headstock and it was not working properly.  Guess what......yep, about a 20 thou bend right on the outer end of the new compound.  You can see several "slam" points where some careless idiot rode the tooling or the compound into the chuck.  The bend starts right in the middle of the compound where the tool post attaches.   $1800 USD down the toilet......UGH!!


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## David_R8 (Jan 6, 2022)

Oh man... that really sucks.
Is this a case of "not my stuff, so I'll treat it like crap?"


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## Brent H (Jan 6, 2022)

@David_R8 - you got it.  We are struggling to find good quality people (as most companies are these days).  A lot of abuse on equipment and a blah attitude when it comes to taking ownership of the equipment.  We also have a strict policy of not using equipment if you are not trained to do so, however, questioning any individual’s competency seems to be outside of my jurisdiction as it “could be found offensive”.  My one guy who loves the lathe is down there trying to scrap/lap it back to a reasonable tolerance for use.  I am not looking to purchase another one so soon after the first one took a hit.  We also found the drill press is all seized up with respect to the quill operation and there are scads of grinding particulate caught up in the vise table.  Could be someone trying to do cylinder grinding on the press - it never ends -


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## David_R8 (Jan 6, 2022)

Brent H said:


> @David_R8 - you got it.  We are struggling to find good quality people (as most companies are these days).  A lot of abuse on equipment and a blah attitude when it comes to taking ownership of the equipment.  We also have a strict policy of not using equipment if you are not trained to do so, however, questioning any individual’s competency seems to be outside of my jurisdiction as it “could be found offensive”.  My one guy who loves the lathe is down there trying to scrap/lap it back to a reasonable tolerance for use.  I am not looking to purchase another one so soon after the first one took a hit.  We also found the drill press is all seized up with respect to the quill operation and there are scads of grinding particulate caught up in the vise table.  Could be someone trying to do cylinder grinding on the press - it never ends -


That would really frost me so I feel your pain. Good on the fellow trying to make it right. I'm sure there's a huge amount of frustration fuelling his work.


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## Chicken lights (Jan 6, 2022)

Brent H said:


> @David_R8 - you got it.  We are struggling to find good quality people (as most companies are these days).  A lot of abuse on equipment and a blah attitude when it comes to taking ownership of the equipment.  We also have a strict policy of not using equipment if you are not trained to do so, however, questioning any individual’s competency seems to be outside of my jurisdiction as it “could be found offensive”.  My one guy who loves the lathe is down there trying to scrap/lap it back to a reasonable tolerance for use.  I am not looking to purchase another one so soon after the first one took a hit.  We also found the drill press is all seized up with respect to the quill operation and there are scads of grinding particulate caught up in the vise table.  Could be someone trying to do cylinder grinding on the press - it never ends -


We are missing the farm boys. (No disrespect if anyone grew up in the cities) I don’t know how else to say that, I used to have a 5 and 10 foot rule. If you’ve shown common sense I’ll work within 5 feet of you, if you’re not then I try to keep 10 feet away. Growing up logging, in shops and working with day drinkers has given me good reflexes 

But yes it’s brutal out here these days, it’s like half the workforce is on pogey or retired in the last two years.


----------



## Metalistico (Jan 6, 2022)

Hats  off to you on that resto, that Lathe is a beaut, I'd love to find 1 for myself


----------



## Brent H (Jan 20, 2022)

Just the electric stuff to do.  VFD is mounted inside the cabinet.  New proper belt on the motor and pulleys are aligned.  She is smooth as silk on the bed (LOL) just gotta get her motor running and que the AC/DC “she was a fast machine….”


----------



## David_R8 (Jan 20, 2022)

Looks awesome Brent!


----------



## Metalistico (Jan 20, 2022)

Brent H said:


> View attachment 20110
> 
> Just the electric stuff to do.  VFD is mounted inside the cabinet.  New proper belt on the motor and pulleys are aligned.  She is smooth as silk on the bed (LOL) just gotta get her motor running and que the AC/DC “she was a fast machine….”


She looks awsome


----------



## YYCHM (Jan 20, 2022)

You didn't paint the compound  How come?


----------



## PeterT (Jan 20, 2022)

Very nice. 
OK newbie VFD question. Will you have an external rpm control knob somewhere?


----------



## Brent H (Jan 20, 2022)

@PeterT : rpm change - nope. I just use the VFD for the 3 phase change.  The speed is through the gear head.  If I was to change motors to a more VFD friendly motor I might use the speed control.  I have not had much issue using the features of the lathe as built - speeds /feeds depth of cut.  
I found the motors run hot when you change the frequency- this is also a factor with the voltage out of the VFD. Typically way higher than 220. Somewhere around 265 …. On this I will digress as there is more to explore and the voltage out may be adjustable???

@YYCHM - yes, I neglected her compound as I wasn’t sure / Mr Imperial gets the compound quite chipped up and, well Hmmmmmm


----------



## Brent H (Jan 21, 2022)

Well, Miss Metric is up and running!! Woo Hoo!  No chips yet as I have to make a switch lever for the FWD/OFF/REV. But it is spinning and I am grinning!!

Funny thing is that the lead screw rotates opposite to the feed screw.   So when threading I need to switch the feed to reverse if I want the travel towards the chuck.


----------



## Darren (Jan 21, 2022)

Brent H said:


> @PeterT : rpm change - nope. I just use the VFD for the 3 phase change.  The speed is through the gear head.  If I was to change motors to a more VFD friendly motor I might use the speed control.  I have not had much issue using the features of the lathe as built - speeds /feeds depth of cut.
> I found the motors run hot when you change the frequency- this is also a factor with the voltage out of the VFD. Typically way higher than 220. Somewhere around 265 …. On this I will digress as there is more to explore and the voltage out may be adjustable???


 Even being able to go from say 50-70 hz can be really nice in the middle of a cut. Sometimes a small difference in rpm can eliminate chatter, or make the chip break, surface finish, etc.


----------



## PeterT (Jan 21, 2022)

Brent H said:


> If I was to change motors to a more VFD friendly motor I might use the speed control.



ah, forgot about that detail, you maintained the same motor, makes sense, thx


----------



## YYCHM (Jan 21, 2022)

Brent H said:


> Funny thing is that the lead screw rotates opposite to the feed screw.   So when threading I need to switch the feed to reverse if I want the travel towards the chuck.



That's interesting.... and the imp machine doesn't behave the same way?


----------



## Brent H (Jan 21, 2022)

@YYCHM : nope - if you want to thread “FWD” just leave the feed as forward.  Makes me curious about Miss Metric and the aversion to forward feed - hahahaha


----------



## YYCHM (Jan 21, 2022)

Brent H said:


> @YYCHM : nope - if you want to thread “FWD” just leave the feed as forward.  Makes me curious about Miss Metric and the aversion to forward feed - hahahaha



Sounds like there is more to the metric conversion than meets the eye?


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## Darren (Jan 21, 2022)

Miss metric goes both ways


----------



## YYCHM (Jan 21, 2022)

Idler gear and bracket upside down some where?


----------



## Susquatch (Jan 22, 2022)

YYCHM said:


> Idler gear and bracket upside down some where?



That was my first thought too. But missing is more likely. Then I added the @Brent H factor and said no way. He has already gone over her from head to toe...... 

Also, I just couldn't figure out how or where. So I've accepted in my minds eye that this is how she works. As all us guys know....... we were not meant to understand how "they" work. At some point or another we just have to accept them the way they are and enjoy them anyway.....


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## thestelster (Jan 22, 2022)

Hey Brent, beautiful.  Well done.


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## Brent H (Jan 22, 2022)

Thank you guys!  It runs very nicely!  

On the lead screw rotation - no idea other than the conversion to metric must have reversed Miss Metric. I will have to be careful with tool insertion and make sure she is running in the right direction. Of course lube will always play a factor.  Speaking of which, I over filled the head and will have to drain some off before we get into the rough stuff.   

The lads were into the keg yesterday and good ol’ tequila joined the party.  Lots of sleep today - anyone heard of a weighted blanket?  Those things are nasty, pin you to the bed and zzzzzzzzz


----------



## Darren (Jan 22, 2022)

Brent H said:


> Thank you guys!  It runs very nicely!
> 
> On the lead screw rotation - no idea other than the conversion to metric must have reversed Miss Metric. I will have to be careful with tool insertion and make sure she is running in the right direction. Of course lube will always play a factor.  Speaking of which, I over filled the head and will have to drain some off before we get into the rough stuff.
> 
> The lads were into the keg yesterday and good ol’ tequila joined the party.  Lots of sleep today - anyone heard of a weighted blanket?  Those things are nasty, pin you to the bed and zzzzzzzzz



LOL i was wondering why i got the same 3 texts 50 times last night!

I just got a weighted blanket...definatley good for oversleeping....you don't want to move because you can't


----------



## Brent H (Jan 22, 2022)

I was trying to have you join the party Darren .


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## Darren (Jan 22, 2022)

Don't worry, I was there with you. Had to restock the beer fridge today....


----------



## ShawnR (Jan 23, 2022)

Great job on Miss Metric @Brent H !
Of course, as we have come to expect from you! 
I even showed management and she gave you a thumbs up on the workmaship (but I think more on the coordination of machinery colours in your shop..)


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## Susquatch (Jan 23, 2022)

ShawnR said:


> Great job on Miss Metric @Brent H !
> Of course, as we have come to expect from you!
> I even showed management and she gave you a thumbs up on the workmaship (but I think more on the coordination of machinery colours in your shop..)



I'm not showing my management any of that..... 

The very first thing out of her mouth will be something like.... "Why doesn't your shop look like that?" The comment will include both visual and sensory snarls and hisses. 

If I let her into my shop too often, she starts measuring for curtains, carpet, oil paintings, and chandeliers. So I keep her visits to a minimum. 

I have no idea why big gnarly machines don't get her all excited. Next time she starts measuring my shop I'm gunna take her for a drive through Manitoba.


----------



## Brent H (Jan 24, 2022)

So electric work is complete for now.  Still may add the switch back for a task light and not sure on the push buttons - a coolant pump would be nice but it is messy as all get out and so who knows…..

Made the lever for the FWD/REV and finished up hooking in the VFD and everything is running.  Chips - not yet

The ball is from Amazon - 5 for $20 and they have a brass insert for the threads.  3/8”-16 thread aluminum shaft.






Had a chunk of aluminum stock and turned it down to 1-1/4” about  1-3/4” long and cut a 30 degree landing for the handle:









Parting off the piece (for @ShawnR ) held nice and close to the chuck with lathe at 50 RPM and cutter 90° to the face. Moderate cross feed speed and spritz with WD40. Keep chips cleared








No “Yahtzee” or any special comments - basically happy.  Put the part in the mill and drilled and tapped for the handle and a set screw. 






The VFD:




It is actual right side up - picture flipped.  Anyway it is in the cabinet and should be fine. The cabinet is pretty spacious. 






Back of the cabinet is nice and clean.  Just the power and motor cable. 

Space between the lathes will become storage for stock- I will make up a rack with some slides perhaps.






Top view:






The reason I haven’t made any chips is that the tool post supplied need some trimming to work on this lathe.  It holds the bits all 1/8” high.   I only have a few carbide insert holders and all of them sit to high - alas.  I can “borrow” the one from Mr Imperial


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## Susquatch (Jan 24, 2022)

Nice couple. Both very into each other. 

Great work @Brent H !


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## ShawnR (Jan 24, 2022)

Brent H said:


> Parting off the piece (for @ShawnR ) held nice and close to the chuck with lathe at 50 RPM and cutter 90° to the face. Moderate cross feed speed and spritz with WD40. Keep chips cleared



Why does my nose feel like it just got rubbed ?...

Not sure who I am happier for ...you or @justindavidow  .... both looking at new equipment up and running in the shop this week!


----------



## YYCHM (Jan 24, 2022)

I see you scored some doors for the Opel... LOL


----------



## Brent H (Jan 24, 2022)

@YYCHM those are the original doors. The Opel is butt naked and just needs the old engine dropped and suspension.  Engine parts came and a new block is going in with about 20 more HP.

My attic in the shop is pretty full with parts, glass, etc etc 













Then we have the welding project. @Susquatch if I do not burn a 11 pounder I will be cheating the car - LOL. 





New sexy pistons 











Should be fun - plus we have a couple boxes of all new parts to keep the boss comfortable- like seats, carpet, heater core et etc


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## David_R8 (Jan 24, 2022)

How big is your shop?!?! 
(suffering major square footage envy here!)


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## Brent H (Jan 24, 2022)

@David_R8 - the main shop - detached is 750 sqft and then I have the garage - 480 sqft.  My super wife has given her parking space in the garage up for the Opel restoration project.  

The main shop has all the cabinet making stuff, 2 metal lathes and the mill and the tooling for those. The one side of the garage is partitioned so that has the tool sharpener, tooling for that- a work bench, cabinets and the welding station - welding table (mobile) and the parts clean up - more storage. 

I have a baby barn that is 8x 10 with a loft and it has the wood storage, some steel, second tractor and car stuff/gardening ?? Shovels etc and a rack for framing nails, roofing etc. 

Thinking on another out building for the HVAC company stuff, the one tractor and maybe a spray booth section - who knows lots of dreams hahaha


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## David_R8 (Jan 24, 2022)

Wow... I'm working in 310 sq ft!


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## YYCHM (Jan 24, 2022)

David_R8 said:


> Wow... I'm working in 310 sq ft!



 I have 60 sq ft


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## Brent H (Jan 24, 2022)

Ummm - check your math @YYCHM  60 sqft is like 6x10.  Your lathe alone would do that-
With some walk around.


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## YYCHM (Jan 24, 2022)

Brent H said:


> Ummm - check your math @YYCHM  60 sqft is like 6x10.  Your lathe alone would do that-
> With some walk around.



Ok,  14' X 6'   84 sq ft. LOL.


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## Darren (Jan 24, 2022)

Its not the size , its how you use it.....right guys? right?


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## YotaBota (Jan 24, 2022)

dfloen said:


> Its not the size , its how you use it.....right guys? right?


Ya, what he said.
Nothin like a little shop size envy.....lol


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## Susquatch (Jan 24, 2022)

dfloen said:


> Its not the size , its how you use it.....right guys? right?



Right @dfloen, right...... 

I have always said that anyone building a garage or a workshop should build it at least twice as big as they think they would ever need. Then double that. It will still be way too small.


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## David_R8 (Jan 24, 2022)

I'm fixing to rearrange mine soon!


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## Brent H (Jan 24, 2022)

@Susquatch - that’s when your f’n s’t F:/k municipality steps in and dictates that your max shop is 750 sqft and you cannot build bigger on 2 acres because it would be an eyesore to a bunch of dumb Fcks  that are really pieces of fecal matter flung at a fan. 

The story is here somewhere but my neighbour, good guy - has 4 shops because some piece of sndndt woman needed her VIEW. Her view was his back yard / many many many bad feelings -    Well - 2 of the shops block her view now and he cuts down the tree growing so she always sees it. 

Argh!!


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## David_R8 (Jan 24, 2022)

Thread hijack follows, apologies in advance.
Years back I went to my local planning dept to get a permit to build a 12'x16' (192 sq ft) outbuilding on my city lot.
To get a permit I had to submit architectural plans and pull permits for electrical (and plumbing if I was going to have running water inside)
Even though I was building on the foundation of the single garage that was on the survey they had.

Long story made somewhat short I looked at the bylaws and saw there was no limit to the number of "accessory buildings" so long as each was under 100 sq ft.
So I built two 8'x12' accessory buildings. Right smack dab next to each other, so close in fact that for safety reasons I had to bolt them together. 
When I sold the house not a word was said.
<hijackoff/>


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## Susquatch (Jan 24, 2022)

Brent H said:


> @Susquatch - that’s when your f’n s’t F:/k municipality steps in and dictates that your max shop is 750 sqft and you cannot build bigger on 2 acres because it would be an eyesore to a bunch of dumb Fcks  that are really pieces of fecal matter flung at a fan.
> 
> The story is here somewhere but my neighbour, good guy - has 4 shops because some piece of sndndt woman needed her VIEW. Her view was his back yard / many many many bad feelings -    Well - 2 of the shops block her view now and he cuts down the tree growing so she always sees it.
> 
> Argh!!



Weird, I was just talking to a friend a few counties over who encountered a similar bi-law. He bought a place with 5 acres specifically so he could build a nice pole barn. Nobody told him there was a bi-law against it. They wouldn't even entertain an exemption. Man is he ever pissed!


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## Darren (Jan 24, 2022)

Planning office never said a word about my 1800 sq ft shop, but my neighbor across the road who can't see my house or shop sure did.


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## Susquatch (Jan 24, 2022)

dfloen said:


> Planning office never said a word about my 1800 sq ft shop, but my neighbor across the road who can't see my house or shop sure did.



What the heck was his problem? Was he related to @David_R8? (major shop envy)


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## Darren (Jan 24, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> What the heck was his problem?


Maybe he doesn't like the view from google earth....i dunno.


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## Susquatch (Jan 24, 2022)

dfloen said:


> Maybe he doesn't like the view from google earth....i dunno.



I'm still going with Shop Envy.


----------



## Brent H (Jan 24, 2022)

@Susquatch - my original plan was for a barn with a loft - shot down by council.  My original zoning is residential/ Agriculture and my “deed” is just that - lawyers and the whole thing - I “should” have been able to build the barn/shop - burns me to this day. My poor neighbour has 4 heating systems because of that crap shite  neighbour- yep - shouldn’t speak ill of the dead or maybe living- but a-holes die and live - so screw them!   

Sorry - rant a bit as I really could use a place for my son and some biotch living a km away should not have a say.  - maybe it’s time for the wind turbine - I can build a tower as high as need be


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## Darren (Jan 24, 2022)

Brent H said:


> @Susquatch - that’s when your f’n s’t F:/k municipality steps in and dictates that your max shop is 750 sqft and you cannot build bigger on 2 acres because it would be an eyesore to a bunch of dumb Fcks  that are really pieces of fecal matter flung at a fan.
> 
> The story is here somewhere but my neighbour, good guy - has 4 shops because some piece of sndndt woman needed her VIEW. Her view was his back yard / many many many bad feelings -    Well - 2 of the shops block her view now and he cuts down the tree growing so she always sees it.
> 
> Argh!!



Theres a thread somewhere on garagejournal...Guy owned a very nice, ritzy-ish rural property and wanted to build a shop. If he built it on one side of his property, where it wouldn't bother anyone, he would have no access to the new shop unless his neighbor would grant him an easement off the end of his driveway. Neighbors house was actually behind his property. Neighbor said no way, was a huge dick about the whole thing, so the guy built his huge shop directly in front of the guys living room, less than 50' away. It was hilarious. Absolutely destroyed the guys property value.

edit: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/combative-neighbors.76321/


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## 6.5 Fan (Jan 24, 2022)

No restrictions in my R.M. on out buildings. Going to price out a double car garage but have a feeling it will have to wait.


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## Brent H (Feb 10, 2022)

Miss Metric is now a dirty girl!  Woo Hoo!  First chips went flying with way better than expected result.  

After adjusting the eccentrics for the D1-3  Three Jaw original chuck  (Pratt)  I put in a piece of cold rolled 1-1/2” diameter with a pretty good stick out (about 5 inches).  Ran at 450 RPM and some metric feed - I think .054 mm/rev and let it cut taking a couple deep ones and then one at .05 mm (0.002”)

Surface finish was pretty good for for a dull cutter. Measured both ends of the stick and Woo de freaking ya baby - out less than a tenth!  (That is metric speak for 0.00254 mm! ) 




I faced off the end of the blank and  eyeballed the tailstock- looks great  so hopefully my next “adjusting the tailstock” also goes well.  Since Miss Metric performed so well I spent some time buffing up her chuck. 

I will need to pick up a new tool post, and I need to make the threading dial (thank you @Johnwa  ) 
This lathe is proving to be a solid runner.!


----------



## Susquatch (Feb 10, 2022)

Brent H said:


> I will need to pick up a new tool post,



Awesome Brent! I can literally feel your happiness with her all the way from here! 

Why do you need a new tool post?


----------



## Darren (Feb 10, 2022)

She can take a LOT more than 5 inches Brent!

LOL great job!


----------



## Degen (Feb 10, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> I prefer organized chaos.


You and me both.

Messy desk messy mind, I always answer,  Empty desk empty mind


----------



## Brent H (Feb 10, 2022)

@Susquatch : I had to borrow the tool post off of the imperial lathe (AXA piston type) as the tool post that came with Miss Metric sits low and you would need to shim each cutter.  (It is a 4 tool rotary type) Also it is not a dovetail type holder so I could not exchange tools easily.  

@dfloen : I know Darren, 3 inches of pink steel was my typical.  I gave her 5 to see if things were going to work out (go big or go home).  It worked great! Next is to see how she rides 12 Inches between centres and check out  her tail stock.


----------



## YYCHM (Feb 10, 2022)

Brent H said:


> @Susquatch : I had to borrow the tool post off of the imperial lathe (AXA piston type) as the tool post that came with Miss Metric sits low and you would need to shim each cutter.  (It is a 4 tool rotary type) Also it is not a dovetail type holder so I could not exchange tools easily.
> 
> @dfloen : I know Darren, 3 inches of pink steel was my typical.  I gave her 5 to see if things were going to work out (go big or go home).  It worked great! Next is to see how she rides 12 Inches between centres and check out  her tail stock.



Did you not have to adjust the tool height when moving the post, holder and tool between machines?


----------



## Brent H (Feb 10, 2022)

No - just the one for the imperial lathe


----------



## YYCHM (Feb 10, 2022)

Brent H said:


> No - just the one for the imperial lathe



So you were able to take the post, holder and tool from the imp machine and just plunk it on the metric machine without having to adjust the tool height?


----------



## Brent H (Feb 10, 2022)

@YYCHM - no, the imperial lathe is slightly higher. But adjustment is just turning the height screw verses packing shims under each cutter or milling off the bottom of a cutter if it sits to high.  

I will keep an eye out for an AXA if one goes on a good sale or Kijiji


----------



## Brent H (Feb 11, 2022)

@dfloen : she took the twelve inches in style:








After a preliminary cut and then moving the tailstock I was able to dial things in to no real measurable difference over the length of the rod.  Pretty slick!


----------



## Susquatch (Feb 11, 2022)

Brent H said:


> @dfloen : she took the twelve inches in style:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I've been thinking again..... I know, I shouldn't do that.....

Why couldn't a fellow make an alignment bar out of a piece of black pipe and add replaceable aluminium collars at both ends?

This would make end cuts a piece of cake and still make for easy measurement.....


----------



## Brent H (Feb 11, 2022)

A fellow very well could do that


----------



## Tom O (Feb 11, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> I've been thinking again..... I know, I shouldn't do that.....
> 
> Why couldn't a fellow make an alignment bar out of a piece of black pipe and add replaceable aluminium collars at both ends?
> 
> This would make end cuts a piece of cake and still make for easy measurement.....


That is done quite often.


----------



## Susquatch (Feb 11, 2022)

Thanks @Brent H & @Tom O ,

I'll see what can fab up! I just hate the idea of using up a good bar for something like that.


----------



## Brent H (Feb 11, 2022)

@Susquatch - indeed, using a good Bar for just a simple adjustment is a travesty. Typically they start playing bad music and last call happens just when you are about to get the numbers ….and your “adjustment” needs another Bar …. Just saying - … LOL.


----------



## RobinHood (Feb 11, 2022)

Those lathes are really good machines - especially if they have been taken care of.


----------



## PeterT (Feb 11, 2022)

Don't even need solid. The Edge bar is just tubing with ends bonded into ID. All that's important is the collars are turned identically about their center drill, same setting close to the chuck. Make it once & save it as a tool, likely you will use it again in the future.


----------



## Susquatch (Feb 12, 2022)

Brent H said:


> @Susquatch - indeed, using a good Bar for just a simple adjustment is a travesty. Typically they start playing bad music and last call happens just when you are about to get the numbers ….and your “adjustment” needs another Bar …. Just saying - … LOL.



LOL! I know that drill all too well! 

OK, I will think something up for this and maybe create a new post if it turns into anything unusual that others might like. 

In the meantime it will likely be a cheap piece of black pipe to fit my jaws and two aluminium collars at each end. At the tailstock end I'll add a center to use for setting tapers as well as checking alignment.


----------



## Susquatch (Feb 12, 2022)

PeterT said:


> Don't even need solid. The Edge bar is just tubing with ends bonded into ID. All that's important is the collars are turned identically about their center drill, same setting close to the chuck. Make it once & save it as a tool, likely you will use it again in the future.



I must be missing something. I don't see how this would work. Don't you have to make a cut at both ends?


----------



## YYCHM (Feb 12, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> I must be missing something. I don't see how this would work. Don't you have to make a cut at both ends?



I haven't figured out how this works either....


----------



## Tom O (Feb 12, 2022)

It’s basically a dumbbell you just have to make both measurements the same to line up the tailstock.


----------



## Susquatch (Feb 12, 2022)

Tom O said:


> It’s basically a dumbbell you just have to make both measurements the same to line up the tailstock.



Ah, I see now. You guys think this is for lining up the tailstock! Not really.... 

Yes, I'd like to be able to use the same bar to do that too, but that is only a secondary objective. Lining up the tailstock does not require a cut just a measurement across two known identical diameters.

I am after @Brent H 's first task which is to align (or check the alignment of) the spindle with the bed. Unless someone knows something I don't know (which is always highly likely), that requires a cut.


----------



## PeterT (Feb 12, 2022)

I'm talking about a shop made alignment dumb bell either from solid, or from something like a section of tubing plus separate ends to economize on material. All you need is Loctite to bond the ends. Tubing is actually desirable because it doesn't need to be cut (stress relief) & has plenty of rigidity for this application. Once you have end blanks either center drilled & slightly oversize OD ends, you mount between centers (not a chuck or collet) & take a skim cut over the OD. Preserve that infeed setting exactly, flip the bar & repeat skim cut on other side. They are now centered and parallel. Indicating on the HS side & comparing that to the TS side will indicate in/out & up/down of the TS center. No cutting is ever required beyond making the test bar.

To check spindle alignment relative to bed, the best method I know of is a precision MT taper / parallel bar.  The one I bought is MT3 so I use my MT5/MT3 ground adapter that came with the lathe. You can also use this to stick in the tail stock MT socket & do some referencing there independent of the headstock. If you have a completely parallel test bar, it must be gripped by a chuck or something & you introduce potential errors.


----------



## YYCHM (Feb 12, 2022)

PeterT said:


> I'm talking about a shop made alignment dumb bell either from solid, or from something like a section of tubing plus separate ends to economize on material. All you need is Loctite to bond the ends. Tubing is actually desirable because it doesn't need to be cut (stress relief) & has plenty of rigidity for this application. Once you have end blanks either center drilled & slightly oversize OD ends, you mount between centers (not a chuck or collet) & take a skim cut over the OD. Preserve that infeed setting exactly, flip the bar & repeat skim cut on other side. They are now centered and parallel. Indicating on the HS side & comparing that to the TS side will indicate in/out & up/down of the TS center. No cutting is ever required beyond making the test bar.
> 
> To check spindle alignment relative to bed, the best method I know of is a precision MT taper / parallel bar.  The one I bought is MT3 so I use my MT5/MT3 ground adapter that came with the lathe. You can also use this to stick in the tail stock MT socket & do some referencing there independent of the headstock. If you have a completely parallel test bar, it must be gripped by a chuck or something & you introduce potential errors.



What if you just flip the test bar?


----------



## PeterT (Feb 12, 2022)

Not quite sure what you mean


----------



## YotaBota (Feb 12, 2022)

Sure, make me feel wasteful for using a bar. lol  The bar is 1"x16" and the disks (press fit) are 1"x2.250". You do have me thinking of changing out to a piece of pipe.





BTW, great job on little Miss.


----------



## YYCHM (Feb 12, 2022)

PeterT said:


> Not quite sure what you mean



Why do you need two ends turned to the same OD?  Just flip the bar around between the centers?


----------



## PeterT (Feb 12, 2022)

Ah I see what you mean. Yes if you machined into the bar it would have same OD & serve that alignment purpose. But when you register the DTI ball on the reduced diameter surface A you would also drag it down the length of the larger bar until you get to surface B. The idea is to keep the same indicator position locked, raised (dumb bells) make this easier.


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## Susquatch (Feb 12, 2022)

Rather than reply to each suggestion comment, I'm gunna just bulk reply to everyone who has commented and do this in a new post to avoid further hijacking this thread. It's a subject worthy of its own thread anyway.


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## Brent H (Mar 10, 2022)

@Johnwa : would it be possible to get these 2 measurements?  The big one would be from the centre line of the gear shaft to the centre line of the bolt holes. 







I totally measured the crap out of that when we met up at Robinhood’s but missed those two.


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## Brent H (Mar 11, 2022)

Here are the rough sketches- transferring to AutoCAD and customizing it.  I only require the 26 and 30 tooth gears to cover the metric threads the lathe is capable of so I will modify things accordingly.  Turns out is is a slick 4.000” from the centre of the gears to the centre of the attachment bolt holes.  A nice chunk of 2-1/2” 4140 will make the body.


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## Brent H (Mar 13, 2022)

Here are the AutoCAD drawings to make a Utilathe threading dial.  This is the re-scaled version for 2 gears that provide all the thread choices for the QCGB that is fitted to my lathe.  Probably some details or measurements missing - job security- LOL


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## Susquatch (Mar 13, 2022)

I keep thinking about buying a cheap 10 TPI lead screw for my Mill Drill and adding new dials. Id do it mostly to improve the selling price, but with proper dials and lead screw, I might even want to keep it...... 

What is the best way (or at least a good way) to mark the dials for the gradations?


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## 6.5 Fan (Mar 13, 2022)

I thought this was a metric thread dial, all the measurements are in inch measurements. As they should all be.


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## RobinHood (Mar 13, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> What is the best way (or at least a good way) to mark the dials for the gradations?


You’ll need a way to index the dial face to the number of graduations. Then you need a way engrave the graduations/numbers.

If you have a way to index the lathe spindle, you could use it together with an engraving tool held in the tool post. A DH and a milling machine will work. In both cases you’ll have to use number stamps if you want digits on your dial.

A pantograph with a DH, number templates, and an engraving tool would be the old school, preferred method. A CNC mill with a 5th axis would be the modern way.


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## Brent H (Mar 13, 2022)

@6.5 Fan : yes, it is very fascinating how it is supposedly a metric lathe. The threading dial needs to fit onto the lathe and the lead screw is 7/8” diameter with 4mm pitch threads.  The distance from the centre of the pivot point to the centre of the gear teeth is maintained at 4.000”.  

@Johnwa measured all the gears for me and they work out to DP20.  I measured up his threading dial and that all worked out perfectly in Imperial measure.  So much for the metric system. 

I have a service manual for my 1970 German built (metric) car and it is all in inches and foot pounds -LOL. 

@Susquatch : I have a spring loaded diamond tip engraving tool and will use the rotary table on the mill.  For my dial I really only need the scribed lines as I am not adding the other gears and only need to engage on opposite lines. I figure adding more indexing lines will be confusing.  The gears are to line up such that the gear is on the threads of the lead screw and the indication lines match.


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## 140mower (Mar 13, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> I keep thinking about buying a cheap 10 TPI lead screw for my Mill Drill and adding new dials. Id do it mostly to improve the selling price, but with proper dials and lead screw, I might even want to keep it......
> 
> What is the best way (or at least a good way) to mark the dials for the gradations?


Dividing head and a shaper......


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## Johnwa (Mar 13, 2022)

Brent H said:


> @Johnwa : would it be possible to get these 2 measurements?  The big one would be from the centre line of the gear shaft to the centre line of the bolt holes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I won’t be able to measure these until the first week of April.  I might have it in a Fusion drawing but my account has expired.  I’m attempting to renew but……


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## Brent H (Mar 13, 2022)

@Johnwa - no worries good sir - I was able to extrapolate from scaling the drawings and measurements I had taken.   Thank you !!


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## Susquatch (Mar 13, 2022)

RobinHood said:


> You’ll need a way to index the dial face to the number of graduations. Then you need a way engrave the graduations/numbers.
> 
> If you have a way to index the lathe spindle, you could use it together with an engraving tool held in the tool post. A DH and a milling machine will work. In both cases you’ll have to use number stamps if you want digits on your dial.
> 
> A pantograph with a DH, number templates, and an engraving tool would be the old school, preferred method. A CNC mill with a 5th axis would be the modern way.



I think I need to find a way to think "mill" for projects like this. I have a universal dividing head and a dividing 5C Collet Holder that I got way back when with my mill/drill, and I recently acquired a 10" rotary table.

No CNC here. Prolly not till my wife pushes me in the hole and finds a younger more talented fellow to use my shop.

Quite obviously you are right about doing it that way on the mill.



Brent H said:


> I have a spring loaded diamond tip engraving tool and will use the rotary table on the mill.



I assume that spring loaded diamond bit goes into the mill. If so, where does one find such an animal?

@140mower - no shaper here either. Same story as CNC. 

Lucky guy will get a fantastic lover, a great cook, a shop full of old fashioned tools, and a farm to live off of too!


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## 140mower (Mar 13, 2022)

You can also do it in the lathe by indexing the spindle and putting the lines in by running the carriage up against a hard stop. This is of course done by hand and not under power......


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## Brent H (Mar 13, 2022)

It was $10 cheaper and no shipping cost when I got it.  I want to use it to also engrave the measurements into my tailstock shaft and I have another dial plan thing project I am working on ….


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## Susquatch (Mar 13, 2022)

Brent H said:


> View attachment 21953
> It was $10 cheaper and no shipping cost when I got it.  I want to use it to also engrave the measurements into my tailstock shaft and I have another dial plan thing project I am working on ….



OK, no shipping cost for me either. It's worth the extra $10 if it works. 

I gather you align the thing, load the spring, and then drag it back and forth until happy with the line it makes. Then realign and do the next mark, etc. 

Now I'm wondering if a spinning diamond burr might work too.....


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## Brent H (Mar 19, 2022)

A while ago @05plsrt4 reached out for some 10” Utilathe parts.  I will be making some gears and a new shaft - this will also tie in with @architect who needs the same shaft for his 11”.  Maybe I will make 3? Who knows.  Anyway the original parts arrived on Thursday and were checked out - gears were pretty worn and lots of sharp edges.  I already have one made up and the next one to build is the double gear that sports a bronze bush gear and a larger gear for the feed.  

It is alway great to see quality. This gear is put together very well and will be restored to original.  A nice set screw retains the press fit bronze gear from rotation.  Removed the set screw and pressed out the gear.  The gears all look and test to be 16 DP with 14-1/5 PA so that is great.  I am waiting on a gear profile/pitch gauge but should be fine.  Other gears are looking similar. 














Should be a cool project.  Anyone sitting on some 16 DP x 20PA cutters and would like to help me out I would send them back sharpened.  - there is a chance the 17 tooth shaft gear is 20PA and I don’t have that cutter.


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## Susquatch (Mar 19, 2022)

Brent H said:


> A while ago @05plsrt4 reached out for some 10” Utilathe parts.  I will be making some gears and a new shaft - this will also tie in with @architect who needs the same shaft for his 11”.  Maybe I will make 3? Who knows.  Anyway the original parts arrived on Thursday and were checked out - gears were pretty worn and lots of sharp edges.  I already have one made up and the next one to build is the double gear that sports a bronze bush gear and a larger gear for the feed.
> 
> It is alway great to see quality. This gear is put together very well and will be restored to original.  A nice set screw retains the press fit bronze gear from rotation.  Removed the set screw and pressed out the gear.  The gears all look and test to be 16 DP with 14-1/5 PA so that is great.  I am waiting on a gear profile/pitch gauge but should be fine.  Other gears are looking similar.
> 
> ...



I have a whole box full of gear cutters I got at an auction. I've only ever used one of them to make a new pinion to fit the rack on my mill/drill. I'll look and see if I have what you need. Happy to loan one to you if I have it.


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## Brent H (Mar 21, 2022)

Miss Metric will get some jewelry!

Wedge style tool post $220 off Amazon 

Unboxing it looks ok - will machine the base and fit it to see.


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## YYCHM (Mar 21, 2022)

That's the same one I got.  Same price as well.  I'm quite happy with it.


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## Brent H (Mar 21, 2022)

Great minds Craig!! 

If you find it opens too far you can adjust that with the set screw on the one jaw.  Takes some time to get it set.  - steel seems to be quite hard.  My carbide insert end mill is not liking it ….. hmmmm


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## Susquatch (Mar 21, 2022)

Seems hard to cut it stuff is popping up everywhere lately!


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## YYCHM (Mar 21, 2022)

Brent H said:


> Great minds Craig!!
> 
> If you find it opens too far you can adjust that with the set screw on the one jaw.  Takes some time to get it set.  - steel seems to be quite hard.  My carbide insert end mill is not liking it ….. hmmmm



Need a pic please.


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## Brent H (Mar 21, 2022)

Have to be tomorrow- stand by for that excitement


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## YYCHM (Mar 21, 2022)

Brent H said:


> Have to be tomorrow- stand by for that excitement



Is the set screw something that's already there or something you installed?  How do you disassemble one of these things?


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## Brent H (Mar 21, 2022)

Set screw is there - will post you some pics tomorrow


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## Brent H (Mar 22, 2022)

@YYCHM : here you go.  So when you want to undo the tool post the handle may have a tendency to rotate to far and into your tool removal process.  I adjusted mine so it stops before the wedge.








With the tool post removed you can undo the wedge to the point the wedges will drop out.  Depending on where the worm catches the wedges will dictate where the handle stops.  If you open up your wedges and the handle stops overtop of the one dovetail it can be a PITA.  





Using a combination of where the wedge starts turning in on the worm and the set screw (down below) you can adjust the tool post to stop at a good spot.





Finished machining up the base plate for a nice fit.





The handle tightens up right in a good spot out of the way and releases the tools properly. 





Craig, if you go to nuts backing out the wedges it will possibly change where they thread in and it will move the position of the locking handle.  I played around to find a good spot, carefully took it apart making sure to keep the rotation on the handle - adjusted the set screw.  Took a couple times.


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## Brent H (Apr 3, 2022)

Some projects on Miss Metric!

A while ago a new member @05plsrt4 asked If I could make him some parts to restore his 10” Utilathe - well of course we can do that!!! 

Over the past month and a bit we have been emailing and he sent me the required parts.  The input gear shaft, the 50 RPM drive gear (it is part of the shaft) and a couple other gears to make up.  

I ordered some cutters (still waiting on them) as the gears (once checked very carefully) are 20° pressure angle and are 16 DP.  Turns out the 20° pressure angle cutters (other than hobbing ones) are hard to find.  I have the #6 cutter coming from England, and 3 other cutters when KBC tools gets their act together. 

Making the sliding shaft gear and the shaft out of 4140.  The other gears for the feed are bronze and cast iron.  





Reaming to 7/8”





 Perfect fit !




Need to cut the key way and make a mandrel to turn the blank between centres. 




Other replacements coming along.


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## Bill Perkins (Apr 3, 2022)

I'm completely off-thread here and wonder if you worked up a drawing for the "cross slide puller" that the taper attachment on a D1-3 11 x 20 Utilathe uses. As seen in the pic, you made the actual part for your 10" machine and I think you mentioned planning to do drawings for the 11" and 12" versions.

I don't know to take a subject off list w/o splashing an e-mail address in front of a billion spammers so if you could contact me I'd appreciate it.

    Thx,
    Bill @ PEARL, Inc


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## Brent H (Apr 4, 2022)

Hey @Bill Perkins - I have the drawings for the part in Cad and can scale it for the 1120.  All I need is some measurements off your cross slide:





W1= distance between bolt holes
W2 = width of cross slide
T= thickness of the cross slide

Is your 1120 the newer version of the taper attachment or like the one in your picture?  If it is the one in your picture it may be that the puller part is the same as the 10/12 one I already made.


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## Bill Perkins (Apr 4, 2022)

Mine is _exactly_ like the pix, I can pull dimensions and post this evening. Thx.


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## Bill Perkins (Apr 4, 2022)

Brent: These should be what you need. Thx


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## Susquatch (Apr 5, 2022)

Bill Perkins said:


> Brent: These should be what you need. Thx



OK Bill, gotta ask how you managed to dimension a photo like that? Beautiful job!


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## Bill Perkins (Apr 5, 2022)

Thx, an old version of Photoshop, 7.01 on my daily driver HP Z400, XP machine  *:  -)*


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## Brent H (Apr 5, 2022)

@Bill Perkins:  I think you have an error in the bolt spacing measurement.

Looks like you need the same puller as is fitted to the 10” Utilathe - which makes sense as the 10/12 combination were replaced with the series 2000 11/13 combo and I don’t believe much changed until they changed to the squared off profiles. 

Anyway - I am checking my notes for my drawings but here is the rough sketch and some pictures. 

You can check here: https://canadianhobbymetalworkers.c...-a-10-ld-utilathe-standard-modern.1475/page-3

When I made the one for my lathe.














Let me know if you need more.  My CAD program is not opening drawings for some reason.  Ugh!


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## Bill Perkins (Apr 5, 2022)

Thx for all that, here's your drawing tidied up somewhat. How'd you do the 0.6875" radius at the end, looks to me like a rotary table job?


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## Brent H (Apr 5, 2022)

Well, thanks Bill - that is all grinder close to the layout line and file to the line.  Setting up the rotary was too much for a small job. I show how I set up the taper cut in the link I stuck in there.  I can’t recall if the socket heads are 5/16 or 3/8?


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## Bill Perkins (Apr 5, 2022)

> I can’t recall if the socket heads are 5/16 or 3/8?


3/8" I think, I'll confirm later today


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## Bill Perkins (Apr 5, 2022)

5/16" NC, as shown


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## Brent H (Apr 21, 2022)

Part of the rebuild for a couple Utilathes is to remake the pulley shaft:





The shaft has an included gear that reduces the spindle RPM to 50 - the slowest speed.  The gear is a 17 tooth 16DP 20° PA gear that has a profile shift.  This can get confusing and be a pain in the butt to figure out if you only have the one gear.  Luckily I have the rest of the lathe.   

Essentially, the manufacturer shifts the cutter outward (typically) in order to either accommodate moving the centre line of mating gears or to increase the tooth strength in the gear they are cutting.  In this case a typical 17 Tooth 16 DP gear would have an outer diameter of  (17+2)/16 = 1.1875”.   That would be super except the diameter measure 1.244”. This profile shift allows for the gear to be cut into the shaft and maintain centreline distance to the shaft it runs parallel to as well as increases the base of the tooth profile to maintain strength.   As this is the 50 RPM gear it takes a lot of abuse driving the gear train at a reduction from 1725 to 50 RPM. 

Material for this shaft/gear will be 4140.  Couple high tolerance areas  for the bearing and sleeve bushing that also need to be fitted.  

The gear cutter for this gear arrived over from England last week and the cutters for the other gears arrived today in the post.  Hopefully I will get this all sorted when I get off the ship in a few weeks!


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## Bill Perkins (Apr 23, 2022)

I'm playing the lazy card: when you get back is there any chance you could post the CAD drawing of the cross slide puller. I'm vetting a machine shop in China and I'd like to send the guy a real drawing.
Also I found a bearing manufacturer who does ABEC 7 bearings so cheaply I wont' believe it until I see them. But they rep' for Timken, NSK and few other big names so they might be the Real Deal.
The single tapered roller and cone for the headstock spindle for my 11" machine is $US20.00, the rear 6207 2RS is $US2.40 and shipping on those and about 10 others (every bearing in the machine) is $US25.00 with about 14 day delivery. I'll update with details once I have everything in hand.


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## Brent H (Apr 23, 2022)

Roger that Bill, let me locate it, verify it and I will send it to you.  

If they are cheap - I could use a second one for Miss Metric.  

I will correct the cut angle so it looks like the original.


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## Bill Perkins (Apr 23, 2022)

'K, thx. I might have a few of them made but price is the deal.


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## Brent H (May 2, 2022)

Replacement shafts are coming along nicely!!


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## Susquatch (May 2, 2022)

Brent H said:


> View attachment 23615
> 
> 
> Replacement shafts are coming along nicely!!



Looking better than the original if you ask me! 

Go @Brent H !!!


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## Brent H (May 30, 2022)

Sweet day of making stuff!! I was hoping to show the guys gear making but set up was a bit more lengthy - got some basics discussed but here we go cutting gears.   The spec on the shaft is DP 16 PA 20 17 teeth - or Pitch 16, pressure angle 20°, 17 teeth 












Next up is the 37 and 26 tooth gear that fits to the shaft (7/8” bore and slides on a 3/16” key) 

First shot is cutting in the fap between the gears.  Basically part in to the depth - clear it out with a left and right tool. 







Ready for teeth:




Cutting teeth !!!




 All going well so far!!  Had to stop to cook dinner! (LOL )


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## combustable herbage (May 30, 2022)

Very nice work Brent the cuts look great! definitely a sweet day


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## Bill Perkins (May 30, 2022)

Looking good man. 
I think maybe you forgot about that 3/8" GITS oiler. I did too until the other day and no bigee in any case. 
I have just -nuts- quotes back on bearings from China, like an ABEC 7 7304DB - angular contact matched pairs, back-to-back = $US4.00. 
I'm like WHAT ! ? 55 year suppliers here in town will want $50.00 and whine about availability and lead times and Covid and what the h*ll am I rebuilding _now _and God knows what else. 
Anyway I'm going buy them and many other sizes at equally impossible prices and advise


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## Brent H (May 30, 2022)

Crap!! Yes!! Ugh!!  @Bill Perkins - yes, life is busy - I will get that out to you!


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## Bill Perkins (May 30, 2022)

No biggee, don't stress it; bearings are weeks away. So when you get to it.


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## Brent H (Jun 1, 2022)

Another great day at the shop!  Playing with some gold!  LOL 







And now we have a new cross feed nut!







Made up a broaching tool adaptor for the double gear and broached a 3/16” keyway: 







And the final products:


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## RobinHood (Jun 2, 2022)

Nicely done Brent!


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