# Thoughts on this package deal



## Tomc938 (May 6, 2021)

I've been looking for a medium size milling machine.  I do light hobby work and space and money are tight. 

I am aware of the pros and cons of round column mills, but also live in the boonies, so machines for sale are few and far between.

I found the following:  Includes everything in the pictures - and includes stand, tilting vice and power X feed. (in case you missed them in the pictures.  The vice is not pictured)

He's asking $2500.  Does this seem reasonable?  I don't want to rob the guy, but I also don't want to be robbed.

Thanks in advance!

Tom


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## CalgaryPT (May 6, 2021)

I'd wait until others post WRT price, especially as I am a fabricator and not a machinist. However, since you mentioned that you are aware of the limitation of round column mills, it prompts the question: _what level of accuracy are you comfortable with_? If you don't need the accuracy of a larger knee mill for the type of projects you work on, then you've answered the most important question in your decision making process.

Best of luck. I'm sure other members more knowledgeable than me will chime in over the next few days.


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## Dusty (May 6, 2021)

Tomc938 said:


> I've been looking for a medium size milling machine.  I do light hobby work and space and money are tight.
> 
> I am aware of the pros and cons of round column mills, but also live in the boonies, so machines for sale are few and far between.
> 
> ...



If it were me I wouldn't hesitate on the asking price and I would have a certified cheque or cash in his hands right smartly. Go for it.


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## YYCHM (May 6, 2021)

Looks to be in excellent shape.  A new King PDM-30 goes for $2400.  There is at least a $1000 in extras.

Are you in a position to run it up and check things out?


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## David_R8 (May 6, 2021)

I’d be all over that!


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## Dusty (May 7, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> Looks to be in excellent shape.  A new King PDM-30 goes for $2400.  There is at least a $1000 in extras. Are you in a position to run it up and check things out?



Hi Craig, that King mill/drill comes with much more, a stand $300.00 plus a table power feed another $600.00. One can easily add on an additional $1,000.00. Only item that appears missing is a table vise.  And there's no federal or provincial tax or shipping charges.
Also keep in mind the seller likely didn't pay out current prices for any of it and very few of us really require a Bridgeport or knee mill clone.

Just saying!


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## DPittman (May 7, 2021)

I understand the real constraints you mentioned and I would say that deal would be a very good fit for you.


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## Dusty (May 7, 2021)

DPittman said:


> I understand the real constraints you mentioned and I would say that deal would be a very good fit for you.



Way I see it more like anyone, would have been nice if I had sound advise when first starting out.


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## kevin.decelles (May 7, 2021)

Great deal.  rotary table, Power feed, boring head, collets......  the tooling is more than 1000.


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## Tomc938 (May 7, 2021)

Thanks for the input.  You have confirmed what I was thinking, but it's nice to have some advice from people who are better informed and objective.  I'll keep you posted!


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## Tom Kitta (May 7, 2021)

It is an good deal (but not smoking one) as long as the machine is in excellent shape. Note that new mill is (with tax) about 2500. So he is adding few extras such as stand, rotary table, power feed, few collets, clamping table as extras. The mill new comes with a vice, chuck and a face mill so these are not extra. The extra tooling when new is around 1000. So what you are getting for 2500 would cost 3500 brand new. Need to make sure that the mill is indeed all fine and in excellent shape. 

Note I just purchased old and a bit (maybe more then a bit) abused RF-30 for 350 CAD. I think that was an excellent deal. I am basing this all on AB prices. Used RF-30s usually go for around 1000 without much tooling if any. 

The main problem with round column is that you will need to re-tram the head if you indeed move the mill head on the round column. You can make a brace to keep mill mostly in tram if you desire so. Many people just do not move the head too often - what I am planning to do.


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## Dabbler (May 7, 2021)

Tom beat me to it but I also agree with him  It is a 'doable' price, but not a screaming deal.  If it is in like-new condition, and I needed a small mill, I think that would be fine.  

If your mill there has seem a lot of use, i.e. spindle runout or inconsistent Z height over the X and Y travel a lower counter offer might be warranted.


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## Mcgyver (May 10, 2021)

I'm surprised the price of these things compared to new vs that same ratio of developed world machines.  It doesn't compute imo.  Also, with new its new, you can pay by visa, get return privileges, a warranty, can buy whenever it suits you etc.  

I guess the important part is assessing whether it meets your needs.  Always hard to do as a beginner, but personally I would find the 'cons' of a round column a real issue.  Not sure what the pros are   Then again thats me, it might be perfect for what you want


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## Dabbler (May 10, 2021)

@Mcgyver price and quality is so personal, and it is hard to evaluate deals in a way that would be perfect for everybody.  Since I have bought and sold a bunch of used machines, and even bought new machines, I can give some informed ideas based on my own personal values and trade-offs.

I remember well the early, heady days when I wanted a mill soooo bad, and tried to buy a quality used unit, and having to 'settle' for a smaller new one.  The new one was twice the price of the unit I missed, and had zero tooling, as opposed to being mostly fully tooled.

For a guy with a present mill, and is looking to upgrade, then it is possible to be more picky about the price and quality.  When you find that 'unicorn' you have to be decisive and pounce!  That's how I got my PM 935V for the price of a round column mill.


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## David_R8 (May 10, 2021)

@Tomc938's challenge is the same as mine was. He's halfway up the island and there's no machining industry up there to speak of.
Likewise in Vancouver, there's just nothing coming up these days either privately or commercial sellers. Since I bought mine I have not seen another mill come up that wasn't 3-4000 dollars.


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## Tom Kitta (May 10, 2021)

If you have a mill / lathe combo, as Dabbler said, you can be very patient waiting for a good deal. I also only bought my machines new when I had nothing - same as Dabbler. Now wiser me always buys used. Sure, this has its issues - sometimes you don't get perfect stuff - some stuff can have hidden flows. But at least you are not bored! 

Also with used machines, if bought well, usually you can resell for much more $$$. My RF30 clone needed lots of cleaning, I made stand for it, it needed a drive home from Edmonton but now it is probably worth 2x as much as I paid for it.


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## David_R8 (May 10, 2021)

@Tomc938 how did you make out?


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## Mcgyver (May 11, 2021)

I hope I didn't create the impression I was opposed to used machines....I've a two car garage and basement full of them.  I don't think I've ever bought a new machine.  wait, 8" Delta bench grinder.  My point was the discount from new for a lot of these machines seems not nearly enough compared to that of what I consider better machines.   otoh, there is of course a premium for small machines as they are easy (comparatively) to cart and get down the stairs.

David makes a good point reminding me that location matters a lot.   Lousy spot for machine tools.  I was on Salt Spring Island summer of 2019 for awhile and while I certainly benefit from TO's manufacturing history with lots of old iron kicking about, I get that your coastal location certainly offers other advantages


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## JohnnyTK (May 11, 2021)

Here is a link to a video about modifications. Lots of other solutions.


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## Tomc938 (May 11, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> @Tomc938 how did you make out?


Great!  Thanks for asking. The machine and accessories were like new. One small ding on the table, far far left of the table. Many of the cutters have not even been used.   Ended up at $2400. Followed me home in the trailer no problem. Couple ladders, a plank and two come alongs and it’s in the floor in my shop.  Next week onto the stand. We’ll see from there. It’s a solid chunk of machine.

you said you had a fix for moving head and keeping it close. I’d be interested in the details if you have a chance. 


Mcgyver said:


> I hope I didn't create the impression I was opposed to used machines....I've a two car garage and basement full of them.  I don't think I've ever bought a new machine.  wait, 8" Delta bench grinder.  My point was the discount from new for a lot of these machines seems not nearly enough compared to that of what I consider better machines.   otoh, there is of course a premium for small machines as they are easy (comparatively) to cart and get down the stairs.
> 
> David makes a good point reminding me that location matters a lot.   Lousy spot for machine tools.  I was on Salt Spring Island summer of 2019 for awhile and while I certainly benefit from TO's manufacturing history with lots of old iron kicking about, I get that your coastal location certainly offers other advantages


Very true!  I was seeing old shapers and 10,000 lb 575 volt mills for about the same price as this vgc mill. Prices seem 2x on the West Coast as compared to the industrial heartland. I was looking at going to Portland or SF Bay Area. If travel was even an option.


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## David_R8 (May 11, 2021)

Tomc938 said:


> Great!  Thanks for asking. The machine and accessories were like new. One small ding on the table, far far left of the table. Many of the cutters have not even been used.   Ended up at $2400. Followed me home in the trailer no problem. Couple ladders, a plank and two come alongs and it’s in the floor in my shop.  Next week onto the stand. We’ll see from there. It’s a solid chunk of machine.
> 
> you said you had a fix for moving head and keeping it close. I’d be interested in the details if you have a chance.


Have a look here Tom
https://canadianhobbymetalworkers.com/threads/rf30-head-alignment-guide.2555/


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## Tomc938 (May 11, 2021)

Thanks for the link!  A novel approach.  More elegant (I think) than the sliding rod approach you see everywhere.  And a nice cost.


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## David_R8 (May 11, 2021)

Tomc938 said:


> Thanks for the link! A novel approach. More elegant (I think) than the sliding rod approach you see everywhere. And a nice cost.



I’m very happy with how well it works. 
I don’t hesitate to raise or lower the head now.


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