# New lathe choices in Canada



## ShawnR (Feb 24, 2021)

Impromptu poll...

If you were to buy a new lathe, 12x36, what would you buy? The only ones I see in Canada are the Craftex or the King Canada. Main want is the quick change gear box, and other features associated with lathes that come with that option.


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## Brent H (Feb 24, 2021)

Hey Shawn,

you are indeed far from the southern extremities - there are some ways to get things up to you in T-Bay but it is getting more tricky for me.  Our ship doesn’t go into T-Bay as much anymore and they are selling off the Coast Guard base. There is a nice South Bend 1042 at the base and a few other metal breaks and shears that should be in the government sell off at some point.

I am a fan of the older machines - not that that is a super great thing all the time - LOL.  

If you see something down in the Barrie neck of the woods we can always try and get it to you


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## Brent H (Feb 24, 2021)

Not a lathe but did you see this add Shawn:

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-other-busin...p_ios&utm_medium=social&utm_source=ios_social


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## Scattered Parts (Feb 24, 2021)

I spoke to the gentleman in Thunder Bay regarding the above mill. He is a retired machinist from the paper mill there and was doing small projects on the side. It is converted from 3 phase to single phase but he still has the original motor.  The asking price was $7000 with a bunch of tooling.


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## ShawnR (Feb 24, 2021)

No, did not see that. I did not read the last post from Scattered Parts before I sent an email to the seller but I suppose my question has been answered. It looks nice but out of my league. Thanks.


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## ShawnR (Feb 24, 2021)

I have been corresponding with a fella selling the one mentioned earlier. A friend passed away and this guy is sellling it. I will post some more info if he sends it to me or he might join and post here himself. It is a Craftex DF-1237G 12x37". He said he is near Ottawa


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## Crankit (Feb 24, 2021)

PM ships into Canada, not cheap but they do offer a higher quality option in their line up, if you see "T" in the model number that represents a Taiwanese lathe

https://www.precisionmatthews.com/product-category/lathes/12-14-swing/


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## ShawnR (Feb 24, 2021)

Thanks Crankit
I have heard good things about them but did not look at them, till now. Yes, it would be quite a bit more. I doubt a guy like me would notice the difference so my money might be better spent on accessories, if I do decide to bite the bullet and go new. No rush. I have a perfectly good working lathe now. I might just sit tight and wait for something used, local to come along. 

I was wondering if anyone knew of any other lathe models available in Canada but it sounds like KC and Craftex are it. There are lots of KC dealers.

Thanks


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## Chipper5783 (Feb 24, 2021)

Most any of the main machinery dealers would be glad to sell you a lathe (Skinner, KBC, Travers, Modern Tool - likely many others).  I bought my first lathe from Modern Tool (they have new and used machines), that was near 40 years ago, good service - no issues with the machine.


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## ShawnR (Feb 24, 2021)

Chipper5783 said:


> Most any of the main machinery dealers would be glad to sell you a lathe (Skinner, KBC, Travers, Modern Tool - likely many others).  I bought my first lathe from Modern Tool (they have new and used machines), that was near 40 years ago, good service - no issues with the machine.



I have heard of Modern lathes as in Modern Standard iirc, but, except for KBC, have not heard of the other suppliers. Thanks. I will look around.


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## YYCHM (Feb 24, 2021)

ShawnR said:


> I have heard of Modern lathes as in Modern Standard iirc, but, except for KBC, have not heard of the other suppliers. Thanks. I will look around.



https://www.moderntool.com/products/category/lathes-new/
https://www.moderntool.com/products/category/lathes-used/


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## RobinHood (Feb 24, 2021)

Standard Modern (SM) was/is a Canadian lathe manufacturer in the GTA. Modern Tool is a machinery dealer. They have a house brand called “Modern”. Unless you get a used Standard Modern machine from Modern Tool, the machines are not one and the same. Sorry sounds confusing, I know.

Yup, KBC sells the SM machines. Not sure if they are still made in Canada, but from what I have seen at KBC, still seem very good quality.


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## DPittman (Feb 24, 2021)

RobinHood said:


> Not sure if they are still made in Canada, but from what I have seen at KBC, still seem very good quality


There website only seems to claim that they are made in North America.  I guess that means Mexico.


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## Dabbler (Feb 24, 2021)

wow  I've forgotten how far tBay is from the bigger cities!   Been about 16 years since I drove through it.  You could make a glad-hand deal with one of the members and wait until someone is going your way...

What are you looking for in a 12 incher?  would a good 13 do?  would a 10 work for you?  do you need all the metric and imperial and the DP threading?


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## Dabbler (Feb 24, 2021)

Standard Modern lathes are manufactured by Racer Machinery Corp in Cambridge, Ontario.  They moved from Etobicoke near Toronto in the (late?) 70s


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## ShawnR (Feb 24, 2021)

Thanks for all of the information. I currently have a BusyBee 10x18 B2227L. I have had it for probably almost 20 years. My interest has ebbed and flowed so it is relatively speaking, lightly used. But, just thinking that I got my money out of it, and would like to move to something with a quick change gear box and do more threading and such. But honestly, just being whiney... the gears are not so bad...I guess...maybe...  the more times I change gears, the easier it is getting. It does get tight sometimes when turning on shorter items that need to be supported by the tailstock. Almost like the saddle it too big for the machine. 

So I am thinking about moving up, no rush. I just thought I would ask what else is out there, in Canada. When the border opens, I can order to Grand Portage and go get it. But even then, it seems that many Grizzly machines look like Craftex and other makes so that does not make sense to do. That is how I got the mill from LittleMachineShop. But I can't see borders opening anytime soon, especially with how our COVID numbers are moving in Ontario, especially locally. 

Thanks for the input. Cheers,


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## ShawnR (Feb 25, 2021)

Dabbler said:


> Standard Modern lathes are manufactured by Racer Machinery Corp in Cambridge, Ontario.  They moved from Etobicoke near Toronto in the (late?) 70s



I did not know nor expected that we had machinery makers in Canada, especially Ontario.....interesting! I have sent them a note to find out about pricing, stock etc. My guess is they are going to be way way more than KBC or BusyBee but will be interesting to get some numbers. Just the name makes me want one. I remember a local highschool selling off their lathes probably 30ish years ago and they were all Standard Moderns. At the time, the selling price was more than what I wanted to spend but in retrospect..... 

I think they all (3 or 4?) went around $1500 so not too different than todays used market.


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## DPittman (Feb 25, 2021)

ShawnR said:


> I think they all (3 or 4?) went around $1500 so not too different than todays used market.


Ya you'll be wishing you bought one then after learning of the new prices.


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## John Conroy (Feb 25, 2021)

HHRoberts in Mississauga sells Sunmaster Taiwanese lathes. They make a 1330 and 1340 models. Very high quality machines. They also sell Hardinge clone Cyclematic precision tool room lathes.

Their website shows a used Western brand 1340 lathe in stock also.

http://www.hhrobertsmachinery.com/index.html


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## ShawnR (Feb 25, 2021)

DPittman said:


> Ya you'll be wishing you bought one then after learning of the new prices.



lol...ya, no doubt!


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## Dabbler (Feb 25, 2021)

SM lathes come up quite a bit in on kijiji.  one 8will* show up with your name on it!


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## ShawnR (Feb 25, 2021)

John Conroy said:


> HHRoberts in Mississauga sells Sunmaster Taiwanese lathes. They make a 1330 and 1340 models. Very high quality machines. They also sell Hardinge clone Cyclematic precision tool room lathes.
> 
> Their website shows a used Western brand 1340 lathe in stock also.
> 
> http://www.hhrobertsmachinery.com/index.html



Thanks John. Did not know about them either. Apparently, I have not been very diligent on my web searching. I have emailed them asking for more info on the Western and a new one.


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## ShawnR (Feb 25, 2021)

Dabbler said:


> SM lathes come up quite a bit in on kijiji.  one 8will* show up with your name on it!



Yes, fun to look for sure and patience usually pays off. Some days I have it and some days I don't. I can wait but it is nice to now have these other references. I had tunnel vision on KBC and Busybee. 

Do you own all that equipment in your signature? Or is that stuff that you have owned...? That is a lot of stuff for a hobbyist.....

"15X60 Leblond lathe
14X40 Modern Lathe
12X37 Busy Bee Lathe
9X49 First mill
8X36 Modern Mill
7X42 Hartford Mill
7X24 Horizontal mill
Brown and Sharpe 6X12 Surface Grinder...."


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## PeterT (Feb 25, 2021)

Sunmasters look very nice. But they are big bucks.
http://www.hhrobertsmachinery.com/Sunmaster-lathes/Sunmaster-RML-Lathes.html


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## ShawnR (Feb 25, 2021)

Sooooo, just got off the phone with a distributor for Standard Modern

Any guesses as to how much they are worth new? He would not even quote me exactly. .... I left lots of room in this message for you to ponder....scroll down for the answer. Apparently, they are made to specs for the US Navy. And that is one of their main clients. School boards and government agencies of course too...
























My answer was......"North of 20K for the 13" model"


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## RobinHood (Feb 25, 2021)

Yup, that would be the price.

I was in KBC‘s showroom in YYZ about 4 years ago, the SM 16x60 was listed just around 30K, IIRC.


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## YotaBota (Feb 25, 2021)

New 1334 is 22k USD.
https://www.penntoolco.com/standard-modern-lathe-model-1334-13-swing-sm-1334/
If you want the mil spec version it's about double that.
From what I can find the mil-spec model is the same machine but comes with "all" the accessories.


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## Dabbler (Feb 25, 2021)

ShawnR said:


> Do you own all that equipment in your signature?



@ShawnR  Uh, well, that's not all of it, unfortunately.  I am in a mode of getting some of them ready for sale, I want them in the best shape possible first.  I kinda like rebuilding old equipment.



ShawnR said:


> North of 20K for the 13" model



For new, that is the expected price...   They are well made, even for the price.  There's always best value in a well cared for used machine - the risk is that it isn't cared for...


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## ShawnR (Feb 25, 2021)

Too bad we are not closer...I could shop at your shop....


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## Dabbler (Feb 25, 2021)

In theory one mill and lathe are spoken for, but reassembly is required first...


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## boilerhouse (Feb 28, 2021)

I am in the same boat - also looking for a new lathe.  A few of the Canadian distributors who had lathes suitable for a home hobbiest that I stumbled on through google searches are; Modern Tool (BC, Alberta, Newmarket, Ont.), Bell Machinery (West coast), Stan Canada (Edmonton), in addition to Busy Bee and KBC,   I am generally leaning towards a Taiwanese machine, although the Chinese models tend to be  cheaper and sometimes a bit better equipped.  If I find other suppliers i will post them here.


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## Crankit (Mar 1, 2021)

boilerhouse said:


> I am in the same boat - also looking for a new lathe.  A few of the Canadian distributors who had lathes suitable for a home hobbiest that I stumbled on through google searches are; Modern Tool (BC, Alberta, Newmarket, Ont.), Bell Machinery (West coast), Stan Canada (Edmonton), in addition to Busy Bee and KBC,   I am generally leaning towards a Taiwanese machine, although the Chinese models tend to be  cheaper and sometimes a bit better equipped.  If I find other suppliers i will post them here.



https://www.traverscanada.com/metalworking-machinery/c/298691/

Cheers....


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## ShawnR (Mar 1, 2021)

Thanks Crankit. Did not see them before either. I have looked at Jet products before. I think a step up from the basic import but not quite the top echelon. 

Boilerhouse, what are you using now? Where are you?

I am still leaning towards the listed below. But not rushing into buying soon. If you compare the CX 707 to the Baleigh listed on the travers site, they look very similar, enough to make me think same manufacturer.

KBC 1236    https://www.kbctools.ca/itemdetail/6-125-063
Craftex CX707   https://www.busybeetools.com/products/lathe-12in-x-36in-2hp-gear-head-craftex-cx-cx707.html 
Baleigh    https://www.traverscanada.com/dual-voltage-metal-lathe/p/87-115-101/

It makes the 707 look good. My Craftex has been good to me. I also have some King Canada equipment and it seems decent too.


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## Chipper5783 (Mar 1, 2021)

The Travers example helps to put things in context.  They list quite a nice 13" lathe - which makes the eye popping price of the SM ("north of 20K for the 13" model") look like it is on a half price sale.

If you can get a good condition industrial lathe, with attachments and basic tooling for $5000 - that really is cheap.  One figuring they can get that for much less is like hoping to win a lottery - it happens, but don't count on it.  You can buy a similar work envelop machine for a lot less than a top end machine and many of the parts manufactured on the cheaper machine will be the same, but don't kid yourself that the $5000 13" Craftex is pretty much the same as the $42,000 13" Clausing.

The reality is, I'm never going to buy a new top end machine.  Either I'm buying something pretty good (used industrial) and cleaning and fixing, or I'm buying 'el cheapo and appreciating it for what it is (thankful that it gets me into a fun hobby).   I've done a bit of both - either options works.


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## boilerhouse (Mar 1, 2021)

Thanks Crankit - Travers certainly has a large selection of machine tools.  Looks like  something there for everyone.  With it shipping from the US, I would want to check if duties, brokerage fees, shipping costs etc would apply. 

ShawnR - I am in Muskoka (Central Ontario), and currently have a 1940's era Atlas, and while it is in fairly good shape for its age, it just lacks weight and rigidity.  I have been keeping an eye on Kijiji for some time, looking at older iron, but most of the stuff that comes up looks like it would be a project.  If I were to consider one of the older N American machines, (which is very unlikely at this point), I would really want to be familiar with the history of the machine and know the owner.  I have King and Craftex machine tools that have held up well over the years, however, in both cases they are of Taiwan origin.  The Chinese seem to have upped their game in recent years, but if I were to buy one, much like a used machine, I would prefer to see it in person, turn all the cranks and check it under power.  This should drastically reduce unpleasant surprises when it is shipped and uncrated.


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## John Conroy (Mar 1, 2021)

If you want new and heavy duty KBC sells a Kent USA 1340 lathe that I believe is made by Sunmaster in Taiwan. At 2440 lbs it will be stout and Sunmaster makes very good stuff.

https://www.kbctools.ca/itemdetail/6-273-058


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## boilerhouse (Mar 1, 2021)

Yes - a very stout lathe, here was another KBC lathe that they sell as their brand, 3HP,  2400 lbs  a couple chucks and other goodies, and less than 10 grand,  I searched for any first hand accounts from users with this lathe, but so far haven't found anything.  

https://www.kbctools.ca/itemdetail/6-269-006


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## John Conroy (Mar 1, 2021)

The other Grip brand 1440 is exactly the same machine as the Precision Matthews PM1440HD. and very similar the the Jet GH1440W and the Modern branded GH1440W that I bought a couple of years ago.

https://www.kbctools.ca/itemdetail/6-269-007-N3

https://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/pm-1440hd/





Modern normally carries the C0636A lathe which is priced under $10K but are out of stock until this summer.


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## Dabbler (Mar 1, 2021)

A bunch of us have the C0636 lathes, which is an older and less capable unit, and are very happy with it!


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## John Conroy (Mar 1, 2021)

The C0636 had a 1.5" spindle bore and the C0636A was upgraded to a 2" spindle bore but that meant going to D1-5 chucks instead of the much more common D1-4


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## Crankit (Mar 1, 2021)

boilerhouse said:


> Thanks Crankit - Travers certainly has a large selection of machine tools.  Looks like  something there for everyone.  With it shipping from the US, I would want to check if duties, brokerage fees, shipping costs etc would apply.
> 
> ShawnR - I am in Muskoka (Central Ontario), and currently have a 1940's era Atlas, and while it is in fairly good shape for its age, it just lacks weight and rigidity.  I have been keeping an eye on Kijiji for some time, looking at older iron, but most of the stuff that comes up looks like it would be a project.  If I were to consider one of the older N American machines, (which is very unlikely at this point), I would really want to be familiar with the history of the machine and know the owner.  I have King and Craftex machine tools that have held up well over the years, however, in both cases they are of Taiwan origin.  The Chinese seem to have upped their game in recent years, but if I were to buy one, much like a used machine, I would prefer to see it in person, turn all the cranks and check it under power.  This should drastically reduce unpleasant surprises when it is shipped and uncrated.



@boilerhouse
I buy from Travers occasionally and they have shipping charges starting at $14(under 5lbs)and up with no import fees...ships Purolator


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## Dabbler (Mar 1, 2021)

@John Conroy The tailstock was also 'upgraded' to MT4, and the compound was beefed up a little.  Both 636 lathes should be fine for most hobbyists, I think...


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## ShawnR (Mar 2, 2021)

Check out this one...anyone know anything about YUWE products?

The video was a good run through on it. Standard features for anyone used to bigger machines probably. Not sure if pricing is US or Can$ but will email them. Wish I could find some small job to justify this thing......need a purpose other than making youtube projects.... 

https://stancanada.com/collections/preowned-lathes/products/yuwe-l1440


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## Chipper5783 (Mar 2, 2021)

Don't try to hard to create an external purpose. Get a lathe that works well for you, then you can count on one happy customer.  If you get some others, or the "build it and they will come" concept works out - well that is a bonus. If you, as that one customer, are satisfied, then that is great.


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## John Conroy (Mar 2, 2021)

ShawnR said:


> Check out this one...anyone know anything about YUWE products?
> 
> The video was a good run through on it. Standard features for anyone used to bigger machines probably. Not sure if pricing is US or Can$ but will email them. Wish I could find some small job to justify this thing......need a purpose other than making youtube projects....
> 
> https://stancanada.com/collections/preowned-lathes/products/yuwe-l1440



We talked about that one a while back, it looks very much like the C0626A that Modern sells. Looks like a good deal.


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## boilerhouse (Mar 2, 2021)

I was going to mention the YUWE but I saw that this deal was discussed on another thread.  As mentioned, no 4 jaw chuck, no faceplate or centers, and I don't believe either the video or specs mentioned anything about metric change gears. (maybe just an oversight?). But still seems to be a good deal.   Stan Canada talks about free shipping, but I am not sure if this applies to higher end models, or across the board.

Crankit - thanks for the follow up comment re Travers
John - I went through your thread on the 1440 purchase.  A good roadmap for any new lathe purchase.


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## ShawnR (Mar 3, 2021)

Almost new lathe in Edmonton, King Canada 14x40 Same one as sold here at auction a few weeks ago. I quit bidding when it got over $4000 as I did not know the condition and could not see it before buying it. It is bigger than what I wanted too so not perfect. In hindsight, maybe I should have kept going. The bids were going in pretty fast at the end which means they were set to autobid and not sure how high it would have gone for. I think it hit $4800. 

But another one in Edmonton, 2 hours on it. no taxes. ......

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-tool-other/edmonton/king-canada-metal-lathe-14-x-40/1549720989


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## ShawnR (Mar 3, 2021)

John Conroy said:


> We talked about that one a while back, it looks very much like the C0626A that Modern sells. Looks like a good deal.



Do you mean the 626 is the same as the YUWE? You guys are happy with the 626 or 626A so it sounds interesting. I seem to be fixated on a 12x36. When do you stop upping size?  I am really just looking for the features generally associated with bigger machines, not a bigger machine. I did find out the KC 12x36 is discontinued so now their machine in that league is the 1440 too. The 1236 is still available. My local supplier upped the price by $400 based on the list price on KBC, which shows out of stock now. 

Sagas are us, by Shawn....



Chipper5783 said:


> Don't try to hard to create an external purpose. Get a lathe that works well for you, then you can count on one happy customer.  If you get some others, or the "build it and they will come" concept works out - well that is a bonus. If you, as that one customer, are satisfied, then that is great.




Those are good words Chipper. I have spent most of my life, usually, justifying actions, financial or otherwise. Nerd at heart. This sounds like a, dammit, just buy it situation. A new lathe is in my future, when it feels right. Research is good. 

Thanks all.


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## John Conroy (Mar 3, 2021)

Is the Yuwe the same as the C0626A? Good question. It seems that lots of vendors source their machine tools from the same Chinese or Taiwanese manufacturers. The exact level of quality control and quality components is up to the vendor to specify. Vendors like Modern tool and Precision Matthews have good reputations for demanding the highest levels of QC and better components such as high end spindle bearings etc. I was told by Matt at Precision Matthews that he spends a significant amount of time in China overseeing the manufacture of the machines he buys. Vendors that buy large quantities of machines have the ability to affect the QC of their machines. How does the QC of a Modern Tools machine compare to a Yuwe or King Canada machine? I can't answer that. When i bought my new lathe I considered a few different vendors including Modern, Precision Matthews and KBC. I chose Modern for a number of reasons. I was able to see the machine run in their showroom and the fact that they are a local business with a solid reputation were also factors. They also delivered the machine to my home and placed it on my garage floor at no extra charge.

Things like that could also have an effect of someone choosing the Yuwe machine or the used King on Kijiji. Is Stan Canada willing to deliver the machine for the stated price? Does the buyer have the means to pick up the used machine and deliver it to their shop with no damage? If not how much will it cost to have that done?

When I bought my first used CanTek 1440 lathe I bought it from a local business. It was loaded into the bed of my truck by a very sketchy forklift rigging move that should have made me more nervous than it did.. I unloaded it my self with an engine crane without too much drama but it only weighed about 1200 lbs total and I seperated the lathe from the base so the heaviest lift was less than 1000 lbs and able to be done with the crane arm extended to max length. A heavier machine would have meant needing help to get it home.

There are a lot of factors to consider and what is a great deal for one person is not for another based on their location, ability to handle loading/transport/unloading, or confidence   in the machine and seller.

The used King machine is very similar looking to the Yuwe and the C0626A and comes with quite a few accessories but it's  not a steal of a deal. In my opinion it is decent value if it's as shown in the pics and not covered in rust.


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## ShawnR (Mar 3, 2021)

John Conroy said:


> Is the Yuwe the same as the C0626A? Good question. It seems that lots of vendors source their machine tools from the same Chinese or Taiwanese manufacturers. The exact level of quality control and quality components is up to the vendor to specify. .....................
> 
> There are a lot of factors to consider and what is a great deal for one person is not for another based on their location, ability to handle loading/transport/unloading, or confidence   in the machine and seller.
> 
> The used King machine is very similar looking to the Yuwe and the C0626A and comes with quite a few accessories but it's  not a steal of a deal. In my opinion it is decent value if it's as shown in the pics and not covered in rust.



Good information John. Thanks for typing all that. I knew or figured that one factory supplies many resellers but did not know that within that factory, different variations may be developed. That makes sense. Many machines look very similar.....but then something is slightly off.......that explains it. 

Very true on the different needs for different folks. It would be nice to go to showrooms and look get the impression but not possible for me. That is why I value and respect all of the input I can get on these forums. It is very helpful. 

I agree on the King Canada in Edmonton. Not a stinker of a deal but if as advertised, no taxes, local pickup...probably pretty decent. 

Cheers, 

Shawno


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## Crankit (Mar 3, 2021)

Woods Creek Workshop did some Youtube videos on repairs he had to do on a Jet version of the 13x40


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## historicalarms (Mar 3, 2021)

Personally I would give that King Canada machine with 2 hrs time on it a more thorough inspection than a similar machine with a fair bit of use.
    My reasoning is that i would look strongly for "jam up/crash" damage with a "maybe very new operator" with only 2 hrs experience made a boo-boo...just suspicious why someone would buy a machine costing that much money and only find 2 hrs work for it.


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## ShawnR (Mar 3, 2021)

Tempted to bid on this one and hope I can find someone to pack and ship...tempted only so far

https://www.govdeals.ca/index.cfm?fa=Main.Item&itemid=341&acctid=9288


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## ShawnR (Mar 3, 2021)

I just found this thread which I have not seen before. It has good info in it.

https://canadianhobbymetalworkers.com/threads/looking-at-new-lathe-opinions-and-options.818

Good to see the number of members here that use the 636. Dabbler stated that in a post but I did not get it. Now I get it.

I talked to the Ontario sales guy for Modern Tool and he gave me a quick price of $8500 for the CO626N.  He is supposed to put a quote together with details and then we discuss further


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## Dabbler (Mar 3, 2021)

One telltale about 'is this lathe the same as that lathe' question is the QCGB.  Of course even the Modern lathe is different in just about every shipment, but what I think is important is that it is '_essentially_' the same lathe.  I think the King is closer the the current 636 than the older 636 is.

The main difference is the 'Colchester' gear changing mechanism on the King, which I would rate a little better than the 'two lever' version that Modern sells. 

I noticed the new King lathes have exactly the same headstock gearing controls as the Modern, they are very probably the 'same lathe'.  Thing is, you can order a container of then with just about any quality level and feature you want.  There will be differences between them, but Frankly it won't matter to you too much.  At least not in setting a value for the lathe.

Here's a pic for comparison:


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## Brent H (Mar 6, 2021)

@ShawnR : https://www.kijiji.ca/v-power-tool/...p_ios&utm_medium=social&utm_source=ios_social


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## ShawnR (Mar 6, 2021)

mmmm....that looks like it would work. If it was within say 4ish hours, I would go look at least but it is 16 hours one way. Says it must be picked up.

Are you just picking on me cause I live in tim buk tu?......

Thanks for thinking of me. I am trying to be patient before "just" buying one of the ones previously discussed. Over analyzing the H___ out of it of course! In the meantime, still making chips so all good.

Counting on this......but I also have a wanted ad running so someone might answer that. 



Dabbler said:


> SM lathes come up quite a bit in on kijiji.  one will show up with your name on it!


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## Chicken lights (Mar 6, 2021)

ShawnR said:


> mmmm....that looks like it would work. If it was within say 4ish hours, I would go look at least but it is 16 hours one way. Says it must be picked up.
> 
> Are you just picking on me cause I live in tim buk tu?......
> 
> ...


Where are you again? Thunder Bay?


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## ShawnR (Mar 6, 2021)

So, the only reason I have been upselling myself on lathe size is to get away from the manual change gears and maybe be able to cut left threads (why? I don't know, sounds cool)...
Power cross feed might be nice too and these sort of features come with big boy machines so I have been upping the want list but, realistically,  I have never not been able to do a job cause my 10x18 was too small. The length does get tight sometimes. But in doing that upsizing right to 1440, I glossed over this one....

https://www.moderntool.com/products/modern-cq6128x660a-lathe-11-swing-26-between-centers/

Does anyone have one?

It has, I think, all of the features I want. It should be the same quality that Modern Lathe users here have been happy with. So it has stirred an interest.

*Edit...looks like to change spindle speeds, one has to mess with belts......that would be a step backwards, imho although you can pick tool feed by switching the knobs. A unique combination of controls....*

It would be cool to have a 1440 sitting in my shop, but 1 inch pieces on it does sound like over kill....but still cool ...


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## ShawnR (Mar 6, 2021)

Chicken lights said:


> Where are you again? Thunder Bay?



Yes, 

Ever drive through here? I am close to the highway. I would buy you coffee or lunch just to say hi!


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## Chicken lights (Mar 6, 2021)

ShawnR said:


> Yes,
> 
> Ever drive through here? I am close to the highway. I would buy you coffee or lunch just to say hi!


I’ll be through there tomorrow


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## Brent H (Mar 6, 2021)

@ShawnR - part of me just wants to go buy that lathe and clean it up and have it on hand for guys like yourself- @Chicken lights is an amazing delivery guy for sure!   I think I will be in T-Bay in a couple weeks on the ship If harbour break out is the deal


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## Chicken lights (Mar 6, 2021)

Brent H said:


> @ShawnR - part of me just wants to go buy that lathe and clean it up and have it on hand for guys like yourself- @Chicken lights is an amazing delivery guy for sure!   I think I will be in T-Bay in a couple weeks on the ship If harbour break out is the deal


Can you smuggle a lathe on board?


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## Brent H (Mar 6, 2021)

Yep - no issue there, can even have my people load it for me.  I have a Perkins 3/144 in rebuild in the cargo hold - LOL. Need a small diesel?


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## YYCHM (Mar 6, 2021)

Brent H said:


> Yep - no issue there, can even have my people load it for me.  I have a Perkins 3/144 in rebuild in the cargo hold - LOL. Need a small diesel?



So now we need the whole story on this one


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## ShawnR (Mar 6, 2021)

Chicken lights said:


> I’ll be through there tomorrow



Going to have time for coffee? I will message you my contact info.


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## Brent H (Mar 6, 2021)

@YYCHobbyMachinist, the story:

once upon a time there was a tug boat that hit a piece of rebar while coming into the dock.  Slowly overnight water came in and the poor tug settled to the bottom with just enough water level to flood the front engine room area.  The water wrecked the 10kw generator end but the wee Perkins was lifted to safety- or so it thought.  For many years it sat at the local boat yard, the original tarp destroyed in the winds.  As I had repaired the tug boat several times for various things, the owner gave me the engine.  I brought it to the ship and loaded it as a method to help train some of the new folks on small diesel repair.... should be about $300 in parts and perhaps it will live on in a tractor or another small boat!


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## Dirt Machinist (Mar 6, 2021)

Very first post here, but oddly it doesn't seem many Canadians know of Garant Machinery in Quebec. Just do a Google search on the name since I don't think the forum will allow me to post any links yet. I'm in B.C. and at the time I was looking for my 11" x 27" lathe they were the only dealer within Canada who carried them. Yes there mostly an industrial machine tool dealer, but also sell some models at the more average hobbyist level. Even with the distance involved they were great to deal with and as long as I was willing to wait the 4 months it took I could special order my lathe with a few options there in stock lathes didn't come with at the time. An MT 3 tail stock for one example. I think Garant are at least worth knowing about anyway. Something else worth considering and even more so at the hobby level for any new or used machine. That it has at least a proper tee slotted cross slide. It's something rarely considered, but is imo a non optional part of the lathes design.  Some jobs are just easier to do using the lathe like a mini HBM or horizontal mill. And between centers through hole boring can be an essential but over looked method.

My shop's pretty small and limited on actual weight or I would have bought something in the 12" -14" swing size. Most manufacturer's today have a fairly large jump in weight and rigidity once you hit that 13"-14" swing for not a whole lot more considering what your then getting. Budget for most of us is of course one of our big limitations. But if it were me, I think I'd list out every important design detail you want before even starting to look for something that matches as close as you can to what's on that list and what your not willing to do without.  Your requirements might be a lot different than mine, but to be honest I think most would want something with a built in back gear, a decent QCGB with a double check to be sure just what threading pitches it actually has. Some off shore machines aren't capable of cutting a few fairly common thread pitches. I'd also want a threading dial, a spindle with a minimum of two front taper roller bearings and at least one in the rear. A large spindle through hole would be important to most. And if you ever see adding a collet set up then 5C is the obvious choice. So that means having at least a MT 5 taper in the head stock. And today I wouldn't even consider any lathe with a reversible motor that came with a threaded spindle nose. Yes they work and have proved themselves for a few centuries, but there's simply much better spindle nose designs today. A D1-3-D1-6 spindle nose would be my first choice.I'd also want something that at least allows an exact and not approximate gear ratio with an additional 127 tooth gear that gives you the option of Imperial or metric thread cutting. From what I saw for the difference with my 3 ph BP clone mill I'd also want that lathe to have a proper 3 ph motor and then just drive it with a VFD. Other that the fairly small extra cost for that VFD there's every reason to go that route and none not to do so. Even a simple search turns up ample issues with any of the off shore variable speed single ph electronics. It's not if the boards are going to fail, it's only how long until they do. And those replacement components aren't that cheap and may take awhile to even get.

I don't recall seeing the brand mentioned in this thread yet. There not exactly cheap compared to what Busy Bee or King Canada are selling, but there definitely a large step above those anyway. Eisen is one that's also worth checking out if your budget will go that high. For used machines one I'd recommend putting on the list is the Emco (not Enco) Super 11's or even better there Maximate V13. Hard to find in decent shape now since there no longer made, but they were built as a true light duty tool room class of lathe.

Pete


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## ShawnR (Mar 7, 2021)

Brent H said:


> @ShawnR - part of me just wants to go buy that lathe and clean it up and have it on hand for guys like yourself- l



That would be fun, although it would be like fostering puppies. Once it is done, you won't want to give them up! It might become Brent's lathe museum.


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## Janger (Mar 7, 2021)

Dirt Machinist said:


> Very first post here, but oddly it doesn't seem many Canadians know of Garant Machinery in Quebec. Just do a Google search on the name since I don't think the forum will allow me to post any links yet. I'm in B.C. and at the time I was looking for my 11" x 27" lathe they were the only dealer within Canada who carried them. Yes there mostly an industrial machine tool dealer, but also sell some models at the more average hobbyist level. Even with the distance involved they were great to deal with and as long as I was willing to wait the 4 months it took I could special order my lathe with a few options there in stock lathes didn't come with at the time. An MT 3 tail stock for one example. I think Garant are at least worth knowing about anyway. Something else worth considering and even more so at the hobby level for any new or used machine. That it has at least a proper tee slotted cross slide. It's something rarely considered, but is imo a non optional part of the lathes design.  Some jobs are just easier to do using the lathe like a mini HBM or horizontal mill. And between centers through hole boring can be an essential but over looked method.
> 
> My shop's pretty small and limited on actual weight or I would have bought something in the 12" -14" swing size. Most manufacturer's today have a fairly large jump in weight and rigidity once you hit that 13"-14" swing for not a whole lot more considering what your then getting. Budget for most of us is of course one of our big limitations. But if it were me, I think I'd list out every important design detail you want before even starting to look for something that matches as close as you can to what's on that list and what your not willing to do without.  Your requirements might be a lot different than mine, but to be honest I think most would want something with a built in back gear, a decent QCGB with a double check to be sure just what threading pitches it actually has. Some off shore machines aren't capable of cutting a few fairly common thread pitches. I'd also want a threading dial, a spindle with a minimum of two front taper roller bearings and at least one in the rear. A large spindle through hole would be important to most. And if you ever see adding a collet set up then 5C is the obvious choice. So that means having at least a MT 5 taper in the head stock. And today I wouldn't even consider any lathe with a reversible motor that came with a threaded spindle nose. Yes they work and have proved themselves for a few centuries, but there's simply much better spindle nose designs today. A D1-3-D1-6 spindle nose would be my first choice.I'd also want something that at least allows an exact and not approximate gear ratio with an additional 127 tooth gear that gives you the option of Imperial or metric thread cutting. From what I saw for the difference with my 3 ph BP clone mill I'd also want that lathe to have a proper 3 ph motor and then just drive it with a VFD. Other that the fairly small extra cost for that VFD there's every reason to go that route and none not to do so. Even a simple search turns up ample issues with any of the off shore variable speed single ph electronics. It's not if the boards are going to fail, it's only how long until they do. And those replacement components aren't that cheap and may take awhile to even get.
> 
> ...


Good comments Pete welcome on board.


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## ShawnR (Mar 7, 2021)

Dirt Machinist said:


> Very first post here, but oddly it doesn't seem many Canadians know of Garant Machinery in Quebec.
> 
> Pete



Thanks Pete. I did the search and found their site but could not find any lathe on it. Maybe I made a wrong turn.....?

https://garantmachinerie.com/en/


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## Dirt Machinist (Mar 7, 2021)

Hmmm, I may have just done a real stupid error Shawn. I double checked there website through your link and also did a Google search for Garant Machinery Conventional lathes. You appear to be correct and to me it looks like my previous information about them might now be worthless. They've been sending me an email every 6 months or so since I bought my lathe, but even though there fully bilingual those emails are always in French so I've just deleted them.  Any one of those might have been to inform me they were moving away from selling the more conventional machine tools. My sincere apology's for what was a bogus lead I guess. :-(


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## ShawnR (Mar 7, 2021)

Absolutely no problem Pete! Thanks for trying! I think some of these companies change their supply line time to time depending on options available to them. 

Cheers,
Shawno


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## Dirt Machinist (Mar 7, 2021)

Thanks Shawn, but my OCD good/bad personality defect depending on point of view hates making dumb mistakes like that. I obviously should have checked it was valid information before even mentioning the company.


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## Brent H (Mar 7, 2021)

@Dirt Machinist - the web site does say they offer metal lathes - however, there is no follow up anywhere about “lathes” - bummer
So you were not misleading - the company seems to be the one needing a tune up.


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## John Conroy (Mar 7, 2021)

This company in Quebec City advertises a lot on Kijiji. They list their own version of the C0636A lathe but no price.

http://www.soudogaz.com/product/co636a-13x-40/


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## YYCHM (Mar 7, 2021)

John Conroy said:


> This company in Quebec City advertises a lot on Kijiji. They list their own version of the C0636A lathe but no price.
> 
> http://www.soudogaz.com/product/co636a-13x-40/



Here is the English version...

http://www.soudogaz.com/en/product/co636a-15x-40/

Interesting..... they seem to have used machines as well.


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## Chipper5783 (Mar 8, 2021)

ShawnR said:


> So, the only reason I have been upselling myself on lathe size is to get away from the manual change gears and maybe be able to cut left threads (why? I don't know, sounds cool)...
> 
> It would be cool to have a 1440 sitting in my shop, but 1 inch pieces on it does sound like over kill....but still cool ...



1" bar in a 14" lathe - not really over kill.  I can assure you it works great.  1/8" bar is a bit of a pain as the chuck jaws don't close down that far.  Of course for smaller items there are some other options (using collets, put the drill chuck into the head stock, . . . .).  If you never work material larger than 1" in diameter, then it would make sense to look at a smaller machine so as not to tie up so much cash in capabilities that are not being used.  Often the medium size machines will have nice features that are not present on small hobby lathes (hence the quest for small quality industrial machines).


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## ShawnR (Mar 8, 2021)

Not in Canada, but check this one out in Ohio....I wonder what the rails are like. It just needs some love.....

https://hgrinc.com/productDetail/Machine-Tools/Used-Porter-Mcleod-Porter-Mcleod-Lathe/01210160003/

3300 lbs for a 9" lathe...  Puts our current 1200 lb models into perspective....


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## RobinHood (Mar 8, 2021)

That does not look like a 9” lathe as the add says. It seems to match the 16” Porter McLeod lathe described in the manual from vintage machinery. See below.

http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=15042


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## Chipper5783 (Mar 8, 2021)

Some makers / vendors describe a lathe by center height (common in the UK).  I'm more familiar with describing the lathe by swing over the main portion of the bed (in the link provided it would be perhaps an 18" swing).  There are some small heavy pattern machines around, though perhaps none still in production (I've an 11"x 24 swing S&B which is ~2700 lbs), Holbrook, CAV, 10EE - and numerous are very robust.


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## ShawnR (Mar 8, 2021)

LMAO...imagine driving to Ohio thinking you are the proud new owner of a heavy duty 9 "lathe only to find you bought an 18' or 16" as Robin mentions.... and then only 27" long....? Sounds like we are making pylons to me. Trying to picture the applications, and I am sure there are lots, but from my limited experience, and days in the paper mill, big lathes just get longer. 
Thanks for the input. That explains the weight.


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## RobinHood (Mar 8, 2021)

Yup, I agree on the center height bit. That would be more plausible. The manual states a swing of 17” over the bed so a ~9” center height seems fair enough, depending where one puts the measuring tape.


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## ShawnR (Mar 10, 2021)

Brent H said:


> @ShawnR -   I think I will be in T-Bay in a couple weeks on the ship If harbour break out is the deal



Brent, what ship are you on?

https://www.tbnewswatch.com/your-photos/samuel-risley-arrives-at-thunder-bay-port-2-photos-1338695


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## Brent H (Mar 10, 2021)

Yep! That was 2019 - probably going to be there at some point when I get back next week - tis the T-Bay time of year!


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## ShawnR (Mar 17, 2021)

For those of you with a more varied level of exposure than me,   where would you put this lathe on a scale with the King Canada, or Craftex? The price, even in US dollars, is in the same ball park but PM has a great reputation. It was mentioned earlier in this thread. If I can swing getting it over the border, I might be looking at it. They are not in stock now but expected next month, according to an email from them. 

https://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/pm-1236/


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## DPittman (Mar 17, 2021)

ShawnR said:


> For those of you with a more varied level of exposure than me,   where would you put this lathe on a scale with the King Canada, or Craftex? The price, even in US dollars, is in the same ball park but PM has a great reputation. It was mentioned earlier in this thread. If I can swing getting it over the border, I might be looking at it. They are not in stock now but expected next month, according to an email from them.
> 
> https://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/pm-1236/


I'm pretty sure the small PM lathes are identical to the Craftex lathes.  The bigger ones "may" have small electrical component improvements but they are certainly no worse.  IF I could buy a PM lathe for similar money as the Craftex I would choose the PM lathe over the BusyBee option for service and parts alone.  I suspect the dollar exchange and freight will make the PM lathe a hefty premium over the Craftex or King.  That lathe you linked to appears in my dreams along with other bombshells. LOL


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## boilerhouse (Mar 17, 2021)

The PM lathe linked weighs 1000 lbs, and the 12x36 King weighs 700 lbs, so that would certainly tip the scales for me with all else being equal.  I don't know about the Craftex as I didn't check the specs. PM seems to be a great dealer, but I wold find it a real hassle dealing with a border.  If you proceed. let us know how it worked out.  If it turns out to be a near seamless process, I might be interested in their Taiwan 13x40.


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## John Conroy (Mar 17, 2021)

I bought a PM932 mill from Precision Matthews a few years ago. I have since replaced it with a bigger knee mill but my purchase from PM was pretty seamless. They shipped it to Edmonton for the same cost as they charge to ship in the USA and handled the customs brokerage for me. It arrived at the local Day and Ross depot where it was loaded onto my trailer with a forklift. There were no unexpected charges. Their prices have gone up quite a bit since then due to the import duty placed on Chinese machines by the Trump government.


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## CalgaryPT (Mar 17, 2021)

RobinHood said:


> Standard Modern (SM) was/is a Canadian lathe manufacturer in the GTA. Modern Tool is a machinery dealer. They have a house brand called “Modern”. Unless you get a used Standard Modern machine from Modern Tool, the machines are not one and the same. Sorry sounds confusing, I know.
> 
> Yup, KBC sells the SM machines. Not sure if they are still made in Canada, but from what I have seen at KBC, still seem very good quality.


You explained that really well. Thanks. Always wondered....


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## Dabbler (Mar 17, 2021)

+1 on the extra weight.  I hope he told you if the model number ends in a "T" then it is a higher quality machine (made in Taiwan)...


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## ShawnR (Mar 17, 2021)

In the earlier comments, it was mentioned about the "Taiwan " upgrades but in looking at the Precision Matthews site, those words are used to describe the "Ultra Precision" model, not this one. In another place they mention taper bearings but I think all of these lathes have taper spindle bearings so that is why I thought I would verify. I knew some here had PM experience. The company has a solid reputation. But in the end, if it is the same lathe, just with a more respected name, then might be better to stay in Canada. Glad to her John had such a good experience with them, even over the border. I did not look at the weights. Mmmmm...

Thanks for the reminder about Trumps charges. I recently repaired a friends HAAS CNC. I ordered a power supply board from the company that made the original for HAAS and when it came in, I saw the effects. The board was $32 US and ended up being $150 Canadian after everyone got their piece of the import. Still a lot cheaper than the HAAS $800 quoted for the replacement board, The board was not a slide in but I modified the old board to act as a carrier. It worked out well and he was happy.

From PM site. Not the same lathe linked above....

*PM-1340GT 13″x40″ Ultra Precision Lathe*
*Main Features Of This Machine:*

Extremely High Quality Lathe, meant for very high precision work, and suitable for every day use. Perfect for the professional user who is looking for the best available
*100% Made in Taiwan, no shortcuts taken, built to a very high level of quality*
Excellent machine for Gunsmithing use, Very Short Spindle, Ultra High Precision
Available in either Single or 3 Phase power, to match the user’s needs
High Precision, *Hardened and Ground gears throughout headstock*, which leads to extremely smooth and quiet running for a geared head lathe, and much longer life (Suitable for daily, professional use)
Leadscrews Are True Inch Pitch Screws (Not Metric Conversions Like Many), 10 Threads Per Inch (.100” Per Turn)
Backed by an industry leading 5 year warranty

I live near the Pigeon River border crossing. If the borders were open, I would not hesitate. We have a depot on the other side that stuff is/was often shipped to. But having said that, stuff is still going back and forth so I was going to look into it. I think crossing over, I would have to self isolate for 14 days, but I would have a new lathe so that would be no problem....


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## ShawnR (Mar 17, 2021)

Dabbler said:


> +1 on the extra weight.  I hope he told you if the model number ends in a "T" then it is a higher quality machine (made in Taiwan)...



I didn't speak to anyone, just perusing website and emailed them.


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## ShawnR (Mar 17, 2021)

[QUOTE="DPittman, post: 39822, member: 38"......  That lathe you linked to appears in my dreams along with other bombshells. LOL[/QUOTE]

ok, that is funny!

Thanks for the input


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## kevin.decelles (Mar 17, 2021)

I was in a similar position in 2018.....  the choice to start was the Busy Bee/Grizzly/King/Modern/PM 

I ended up going Modern out of Calgary C0636A (14x40) which is essentially (to the part #) identical to the PM-1440E-LB.  Price was nearly identical (after factoring exchange) but the lynch pin was buying local.  Free delivery....  Now, I've never needed parts and have never been back to Modern, but I suspect if I ever need something they will probably be there to help.

That said, I wouldn't have hesitated to (at the time pre-covid) to purchase from PM.  I only went Modern after input from members here, and after attending a forum meet-up which demystified the place for me.  I am quite hesitant about just popping into places that don't typically deal with joe-hobbyist.  I never get a good vibe.  This would go for a lot of the non-mainstream places mentioned on the forum (Thomas skinner......)   The meet up @ Modern made it easier.......  which is why vendors should follow/read this forum because it's $$$$.    I bet that HH Roberts machinery sold 10  of thos NOS Bison/Atlas chucks based on input from this group in the last 18 months....

I downloaded the manual from PM.  Head and shoulders better than the factory one.


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## ShawnR (Mar 17, 2021)

Thanks Kevin. A 1440 is bigger than what I wanted to get into. I had a chance to bid on a local KC 1440 but quit early. It looked good, lightly used, from the local college automotive shop. It ended up selling for $3800. In hindsight, I should have kept bidding, but at the time, thinking it was not really what I wanted. I am still of that mindset, generally. The YUWE 1440 we discussed earlier looks appealing and got me considering a 1440 again, and the rave reviews that Modern has been given here on this site by members brought me to it. I spoke briefly with the Ontario salesman for the Modern 14x40 but he was hard to talk to. He gave me a brief est of $8500 but was busy running somewhere. I then I sent an email, as he requested, asking for more info, then an actual quote request but still have not heard anything. I assume that one, I have to go through the Ontario guy and two shipping will be 500-1000. Maybe I should call the Calgary store. If I could go to a store, and see one, and get the service that it sounds like you all have gotten, I might be swayed but not so right now. The YUWE looks good at 6900 but hard to compare all of these machines from internet photos. Side by side would be sweet!

Input here has  been great but I need to go reread it again. Basically, the machines are all very very similar ..... but slightly different. And the majority come back to a discussion on 1440's. Modern's 1136 just does not grab me. I have a 1018 so not enough of a gain and if I understand correctly, the spindle speeds are belt changes, a step backwards, imho. I think I mentioned it earlier so just going in circles now.  KC has the features I want in the 1236 but once I started looking at these other ones, it just is not as appealing, so damned if I do and damned if I don't!  The PM seems to have it all in a 1236, and with a solid reputation. They sent me a quote today, considering all of President Trumps extra charges but it is some format I cannot open so I need to wait till they are open tomorrow to see it in a .pdf. There is a local company that started up, bringing stuff across the border, so I may be able to swing the PM, but not sure if they are doing 1200 lb machinery. Their website only mentions weights up to 75lbs and it almost looks like I have to do a pick up request, as in the parcel is there now, to find out (where is that head banging on wall icon?..! ) I confirmed with a friend who works for CBSA. He said I cannot go over the border. 

So, in the meantime, I wait. Not like I am not using one. I am growing fond of my little guy but don't change speeds (carriage feed) much. I made a tailstock die holder last week and ! have been using it lots for threads. It works great!  If I had the quick change box, I would have done/practiced single point threading. And as @RobinHood pointed out, I was pushing the limits (of my chuck) with my pipe project, but I learned from that. I don't forsee many more of those size projects. There is a KC1236 locally that I tried to talk the fella into selling. His last text to me was "maybe in the near future" so if it came to that, and he was fairly priced, I would jump on that, even if it is a KC. The 1236 quick change box uses levers where most of the 1440's have knobs there. I don't know if this reflects the method of gear selection or just user inteface. Most of the later models have knobs there now. No rush. Patience usually pays off if balanced with good research. I am still in the research phase.      I should know more tomorrow even....

But we all know that the day after I pull the pin on ordering something new, that guy with the KC will contact me with a smoking deal or something will pop up on Kijiji...   lol

First world problems

Thanks, cheers, stay safe.


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## Dabbler (Mar 17, 2021)

Used 1440s can be had for about the price of new 1236s, but you need to know the machine and be sure of your survey.  

If you have the bucks, the Taiwanese 1236 and 1440 are really the best machines for the money.  The used 16" machines  and bigger start to go down in price, as most guys don't have the room.  If you can get the guy with the KC1236 to commit to you being 'first in line' at an agreed price, you might do very well there.

As a sidenote:  I couldn't find a decent bigger mill in Calgary (this was 8 years ago) so I bought my 3500 lb mill out of Richmond, BC and had it shipped. With tailgate delivery it was about 800$ to ship...


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## ShawnR (Mar 18, 2021)

Precision Matthew quote came back as $4726 US after taxes, shipping to the border, cast iron stand and High precision keyless drill chuck. 
Converts to $5900 Can

They are working on shipping costs to my door since I am so close., which will include the Trump tariff. 
Found out the drill chuck is not available so that will not be available. A chuck is easy enough to get here. I have a couple for my lathe so could keep one of those too and change the taper in it.....


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## PeterT (Mar 18, 2021)

Assume you are talking the 12x36? Personally I wouldn't fret over the drill chuck. Readily available from many place & you may have a preference as to quality. 
Something I would consider carefully now is DRO & taper attachment. 
- DRO because presumably has the proper length scales & some familiarity of reliability & quality. You can probably do just as well sourcing elsewhere but now a different vendor & package arrival, warranty or lack thereof.  299 to have them install is tempting IMO.
- Taper attachment because if its like many lathes, the cross feed leadscrew & other attributes are very likely different. Buying this later just costs more & is a pita. I've said this many times but I wish I got mine up front.
BTW these 2 items are often found on package deals like (specific) lathes at Modern. So you have to factor this in to compare apples to apples. I'm not promoting one over the other, just mentioning.


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## ShawnR (Mar 18, 2021)

Thanks Peter. Yes, 300 to install may be worth it but also 600 min for the DRO itself so now $ 900 US dollars. I don't think a DRO on a lathe is important to me. The YUWE and others in the 1440 league had them and it would have been great but if I was to spend that money somewhere, I would rather put one on my mill. A taper,although would be one of those things needed when needed, I have not needed yet. Those lathes pictured are the Ultra precision ones. The one I am considering is the regular one but preferred package. My skill set does not warrant an "Ultra precision"


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## YotaBota (Mar 19, 2021)

If you are going new, have you looked at the King from Lenmark? 
https://www.lenmark.com/collections/lathes/?_=pf&pf_p_price=999:10037
The 1440 with taper (and stand?) is only $350 more than the 1236 with taper. Might work out close or as good as importing the PM.
Lenmark has an office in Leduc as well.


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## PeterT (Mar 19, 2021)

Interesting. And comes with taper attachment. The Lenmark doesn't say anything about other accessories so good to check. Its probably the same package but you never know. 
https://www.kingcanada.com/en/produ...athe/kc-1440ml-2-14-x-40-gearhead-metal-lathe

must be typo on the King specs. I thing D1-5 & MT6 go together but why would they package a D1-4 faceplate?
Web page: 12" D1-5 camlock face plate
Spec sheet: 12" D1-4 camlock face plate, TAPER IN HEADSTOCK MT #6


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## YotaBota (Mar 19, 2021)

PeterT said:


> must be typo on the King specs.


Agree, it would be a neat trick to get a D1-4 on a 2" hole spindle.


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## ShawnR (Mar 20, 2021)

I am looking at 1236. The thread did steer towards 1440's bit I am still thinking I don't want that big in my shop. 

The Precision Matthews 1236 PEP is looking doable right now. I have emailed with the company that has been bringing things over the border. Pricing looks reasonable for getting it to my house. But I am off to spend some time on a KC1236 this week and will see "how it feels"....


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## Brent H (Mar 20, 2021)

@ShawnR : I will keep my eyes peeled for a Standard Modern for you....there were 2 for sale in Timmins - $3000 for both.  I should have just bought them at the time....alas....  You will probably have a 1236 before then.....but I will look just in case...


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## YotaBota (Mar 20, 2021)

ShawnR - I missed the part where you are in Thunder Bay when I mentioned the machines in Leduc, oops. I thought you were a bit south of Leduc, not just a bit east lol.


ShawnR said:


> But I am off to spend some time on a KC1236 this week and will see "how it feels"....


Are you going to a dealer?


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## ShawnR (Mar 20, 2021)

Probably a dealer. Right now, the forerunner is ordering from Precision Matthews. Dragging a bit cause I figure something will pop up here right after I order but if I understand correctly, it should be better than a King Canada and landed here will be cheaper. 

This popped up a little while ago, very near me 

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-view-details.html?adId=1556449333

I think my introduction to a metal lathe happened on one of these when I worked at a hospital back in 1987! MIght go see it. Not really what I was looking for but heard good things about them. The guy has it tricked out for sure!


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## Janger (Mar 20, 2021)

That one has a QCGB and a DRO both desirable features. Also a quick change tool post. The brand is unrecognizable though in the pictures.  It's an EMCO - aren't those supposed to be pretty good? I don't know. it has one of those weird bolted on milling heads. Combo machines are not usually all that great. Still that could be a good alternative to a new craftex as you are getting more features for your money. I would want to try it out.


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## ShawnR (Mar 20, 2021)

Janger said:


> That one has a QCGB and a DRO both desirable features. Also a quick change tool post....... Combo machines are not usually all that great. Still that could be a good alternative to a new craftex as you are getting more features for your money. I would want to try it out.


I have contacted him. Yes, I agree, the combos are a compromise. I think the biggest loss is in the functionality of the mill due to loss of rigidity. But then they are smaller machines. He is away this weekend but says he has a few guys who want to come see it. Not really what I was looking for but worth a visit. It is only about 10 minutes from my place.


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## ShawnR (Apr 6, 2021)

I guess the search is off. A new Precision Matthews 1236PEP is ordered and paid for. Won't see it till mid May though. supposedly

I had emailed back and forth with them and received quotes for shipping to the nearby border and all the way into Canada. It is better for me to have it shipped to the border and a local broker to bring it in for me. But with recent talks, there is a slim chance that nearby borders could be open by then so I might be able to bring it in myself. (slim chance)

When I actually placed the order, the unit had gone up $400 US! that week.....but they honoured the quote. It was after a conversation with @Brent H that I actually made the order. I was not rushing into it so  Thanks Brent for getting me going on it. 

Thanks for all of the input.


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## boilerhouse (Apr 6, 2021)

Congrats- A nice step up from where you are now and you will be happy with it.  I believe they quote $299 to ship to the border.  How much more did they quote to have it shipped to your door?


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## DPittman (Apr 6, 2021)

Well congratulations, that's a big happy purchase.  Stop looking at other models and prices (if you figure out how to do this, let me know how) and start planning on how to enjoy your purchase.


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## ShawnR (Apr 6, 2021)

boilerhouse said:


> Congrats- A nice step up from where you are now and you will be happy with it.  I believe they quote $299 to ship to the border.  How much more did they quote to have it shipped to your door?



SHIPPING Shipping Charge to Canada - SAIA-7787947 650.00 650.00T
CUSTOMSFEES Customs Charge GST Tax 252.15 252.15T
CUSTOMSFEES Customs Charge Brokerage Fee 95.00 95.00T

Almost a grand. That is in US dollars.  To Grand Portage, MN is $300 and then the local broker will do it to my door for $375 Canadian so probably about half after conversions. No duty on metal lathes so just taxes at the border. I found a whole forum dedicated to Precision Matthews on Hobby Machinist and see that PM posts in there occasionally so they are in touch with their customers. And they have been great so far in emails so I feel good about it, so far. There were 5 left on the shipment scheduled ...and then there was 4....


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## ShawnR (Apr 6, 2021)

DPittman said:


> Stop looking at other models and prices (if you figure out how to do this, let me know how) and start planning on how to enjoy your purchase.



As to stop looking.....lol....right....

As to planning how to enjoy it....find bigger projects I guess....but I think even the smaller ones will be more enjoyable. Not that they have not been lately, well, you know....

Might just cut a whole bunch of different pitch threads and not get my fingers covered in grease, or curse counting teeth cause I am not quite sure what that stamp says on that gear...or....maybe flatten a really big face with a power feed....just cause....


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## David_R8 (Apr 6, 2021)

Woohoo! NLD. Well in May anyway


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## Crankit (Apr 6, 2021)

ShawnR said:


> SHIPPING Shipping Charge to Canada - SAIA-7787947 650.00 650.00T
> CUSTOMSFEES Customs Charge GST Tax 252.15 252.15T
> CUSTOMSFEES Customs Charge Brokerage Fee 95.00 95.00T
> 
> Almost a grand. That is in US dollars.  To Grand Portage, MN is $300 and then the local broker will do it to my door for $375 Canadian so probably about half after conversions. No duty on metal lathes so just taxes at the border. I found a whole forum dedicated to Precision Matthews on Hobby Machinist and see that PM posts in there occasionally so they are in touch with their customers. And they have been great so far in emails so I feel good about it, so far. There were 5 left on the shipment scheduled ...and then there was 4....



Shawn

Was that a flat charge for shipping to the border? No duties on lathes is good news...I thought Canada would have tagged some on it for being an import. I might apply for my import license now for the potential of running across the line to bring back a mill in the future.

Cheers


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## ShawnR (Apr 7, 2021)

Crankit said:


> Shawn
> 
> Was that a flat charge for shipping to the border?
> 
> Cheers



Shipping to Grand Portage MN. They have a $300 flat fee anywhere in the lower 48 but to bring it across the border, and they mentioned COVID in the conversation, not sure if I would call the fee flat. Probably some logistics worked into it for my location. I am only 30 minutes from the border so if they checked a map, and went this way versus up through Sault Ste Marie, then it is not far into Canada.


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## Tom Kitta (Apr 7, 2021)

Ship it to one of postal forward locations near the border, it probably cost you like 30 USD extra. If you are just 30min of the border, once it opens, just drive over, load onto your truck and pay 5% GST (AB). If you stay in US for 48h you can save on 800 worth of taxes. If you divide the package into two, you can save 1600 if taking someone with you. 

Note they tax you on the 300 shipping to the US - strange rule - if item arrives in Canada no tax on shipping, but if item picked up in US, tax on shipping. 

In AB we have also a forward service, through not worth it for 30min. 

Process is easy, arrive at the border with lathe, show them the receipt, pay your tax and drive away, if no lineup its under 15min, no broker needed.


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## Dabbler (Apr 7, 2021)

Postal forward locations charge storage at high rates if you leave it there longer than, say, a week.  It is by size.  A 36" square surface plate was going to be 40$ a day for storage at the one near the BC border. I cancelled the order because I couldn't get to it for 3 weeks.  Standridge sold it elsewhere.


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## Tom Kitta (Apr 7, 2021)

Depends on postal forward locations and on size it occupies on their shelfs - usually packages are free for some time but freight may not be. Obviously check with them on all prices as they do change and each location is quite different. 

For example, here https://www.montanashipping.com/montana-shipping-receiving/

Freight is free storage for 15 days, but you pay after that. Start at $20 per freight. So unless you are getting a large lathe I doubt you go over 30 USD and I would want my toy a bit sooner then 15 days anyways.


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## Chicken lights (Apr 7, 2021)

Another option is to make friends with a truck driver, I hear some of them don’t mind bringing stuff home 

A full size lathe might be hard to smuggle unless you tarp it and if I have to tarp a lathe that just moved it from “favour” into the “you owe me money” category 

Tom is right though, the bumper and tailgate I brought back from Texas they didn’t even look at, or want to see paperwork. I was down there over a week both times and they were both under the $800 limit for paying duty


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## kevin.decelles (Apr 7, 2021)

Montana mailbox ha pretty fair rates. I don’t think I’ve paid more than 5 bucks for a parcel . Palette rates are also fair


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ShawnR (Apr 7, 2021)

Tom Kitta said:


> Ship it to one of postal forward locations near the border, it probably cost you like 30 USD extra. If you are just 30min of the border, once it opens, just drive over, load onto your truck and pay 5% GST (AB). If you stay in US for 48h you can save on 800 worth of taxes. If you divide the package into two, you can save 1600 if taking someone with you.
> 
> Note they tax you on the 300 shipping to the US - strange rule - if item arrives in Canada no tax on shipping, but if item picked up in US, tax on shipping.
> 
> ...



There is a depot right on the other side of the border, Ryden's Border Store. It has been practice for many years to have parcels shipped there, to the point where they built an extra garage for storage. That is, in fact, where the lathe is going, included in the $300 flat rate. We do "just drive over" when the borders are open. But at this point, in Ontario, Premier Ford just implemented a "Stay at home order" as numbers of new COVID cases, in the late second wave, continue to increase and our (meaning Southern Ontario...you guys!!!.....)  ICU units are getting near capacity. Ironically, in Thunder Bay, we are seeing a decline finally, in active cases, and few new ones daily.... but Ford's order is not regionally based, so we are caught in it. The shipping to Grand Portage will not take place for another month yet, minimum, as the lathes have not even left China yet, I don't think. Precision Matthews don't expect them till late April. Maybe in a month, times will have changed and I will go get it, as we have done for years. If not, then the local company, that only came to be because of our locals frequent ordering to Ryden's, will go get it. I have communicated with them and although something that large is not their norm, they can do it on a special run for me. I have aleady spoke to Rydens too. 

So all good.


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## ShawnR (Apr 7, 2021)

Chicken lights said:


> Another option is to make friends with a truck driver, I hear some of them don’t mind bringing stuff home
> 
> A full size lathe might be hard to smuggle unless you tarp it and if I have to tarp a lathe that just moved it from “favour” into the “you owe me money” category
> 
> Tom is right though, the bumper and tailgate I brought back from Texas they didn’t even look at, or want to see paperwork. I was down there over a week both times and they were both under the $800 limit for paying duty



So all good.[/QUOTE]

Dave, when it gets closer to being delivered (Early to mid May, I have been told), I will check in with you. I certainly thought of you but had the impression you do not get this way too often. 

Thank you for speaking up!! 
Cheers!


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## Chicken lights (Apr 7, 2021)

ShawnR said:


> Dave, when it gets closer to being delivered (Early to mid May, I have been told), I will check in with you. I certainly thought of you but had the impression you do not get this way too often.
> 
> Thank you for speaking up!!
> Cheers!


I was just up to the big city of Longlac last week, went to the Soo to grab a load heading south. Good gawd is 631 from 11 to 17 misery.


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## YYCHM (Apr 7, 2021)

Chicken lights said:


> Good gawd is 631 from 11 to 17 misery.



One of those short cuts that seemed like a good idea at the time but wasn't  What was miserable about it?


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## Chicken lights (Apr 7, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> One of those short cuts that seemed like a good idea at the time but wasn't  What was miserable about it?


If ya dig out a map and look for Longlac you’ll see there aren’t very many choices for roads. 
No cell service, no FM radio, bunch of sharp corners, rough road, the normal Northern Ontario BS 

Better than where I delivered-


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## ShawnR (Apr 7, 2021)

Yes, unfortunately, we are not know for great roads! But how about that highway twinning you were on a few weeks back? They are working on the next piece now, from Pass Lake to Nipigon (ish..don't know how far they are going. ) It makes our drive to the cottage quite nice, for half. After next year, twinned almost right to our turn! Sweeeet!!


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## Hruul (Apr 7, 2021)

Congrats on the new lathe @ShawnR


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## Proxule (Apr 7, 2021)

Do you mind sharing what the pm1236 pep cost. I was going to pull the trigger and then seen you mentioned it jumped 300$?

Did you opt for cast iron stand?

Thanks


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## YYCHM (Apr 7, 2021)

Proxule said:


> Do you mind sharing what the pm1236 pep cost. I was going to pull the trigger and then seen you mentioned it jumped 300$?
> 
> Did you opt for cast iron stand?
> 
> Thanks



See this post https://canadianhobbymetalworkers.com/threads/new-lathe-choices-in-canada.2995/page-5#post-39870


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## Proxule (Apr 7, 2021)

ShawnR said:


> Precision Matthew quote came back as $4726 US after taxes, shipping to the border, cast iron stand and High precision keyless drill chuck.
> Converts to $5900 Can
> 
> They are working on shipping costs to my door since I am so close., which will include the Trump tariff.
> Found out the drill chuck is not available so that will not be available. A chuck is easy enough to get here. I have a couple for my lathe so could keep one of those too and change the taper in it.....



So that is 300 for shipping. So the lathe was 4100$?


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## YYCHM (Apr 7, 2021)

Proxule said:


> So that is 300 for shipping. So the lathe was 4100$?



Read through the posts, he explains the cost break down.  The $300 was to the US border at Grand Portage, MN.  He needs to get the lathe to Thunder Bay, ON.


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## ShawnR (Apr 8, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> Read through the posts, he explains the cost break down.  The $300 was to the US border at Grand Portage, MN.  He needs to get the lathe to Thunder Bay, ON.



Craig is correct. I know I was trying to provide running updates but it does get confusing if you don't read this thread as it evolved.

Bottom line, the lathe was $3999 US dollars (price before the 400 increase) plus stand @ 299 (optional but they had no date on the other stand so I got this one.) plus 299 shipping. That price previously mentioned included the keyless chuck but they had not stock nor expected date so it was removed leaving basically, 4597 US. I will have taxes at the border but no duty. And then brokerage fees, depending on how you can bring it in, which, apparently, may depend upon province......

I should add that the sales staff at Precision Matthews have been super to deal with! Emails are quickly answered and he was quick to adjust my price when I pointed out that my credit card charge was substantially different than the quote recently provided. So far, as their reputation was, they look like an upstanding company! 

If you visit blondiehacks (online machinist channel), she uses PM. In one video, she goes over problems she had with a mill from them, the repair process, and interactions with PM. Of course, her being an internet presence, it would be in the company's best interest to really treat her well, and they did. Cheap marketing for them. But, in my research, I have heard nothing else that contradicts that philosphy so feel good about the purchase. Wish I could have stayed in Canada but we do not seem to have the level of care (although, from postings here, it sounds like Modern in Calgary does, they did not have the size I wanted and costs were several thousand more to jump up to the 1440. Honestly, if I was in Calagary, I probably would have jumped up to that size, 1, because I could have seen it, touched it....( I fall in love quickly  ) and 2, they just sound good to deal with)  

So @Proxule , I don't know where you live but if you can get to an actual machinery dealer, might be worth it to visit first. If running out of choices in Canada, then, so far, I would recommend Precision Matthews.  Hopefully, I am not premature on that. 

Cheers,


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## ShawnR (Apr 8, 2021)

Soooo, thinking the lathe has not even left China yet, I received this email late last night!! 



_We are happy to say that the PM1236 Lathe that you have been waiting on_

_has arrived at our warehouse. We are beginning our inspections on these_

_machines, running them and looking them over to make sure they are up to_

_our standards. _


_Once these inspections are complete, we will begin shipping out the back_

_orders as fast as we can, we understand these were delayed and many of_

_you are in need of your machine. Each of the machines that have arrived_

_are spoken for already, so we will be shipping them out in the order_

_that each was received. If you ordered your machine in 2020, it is_

_likely your order will be ready to ship out later this week or early_

_next week, if any changes are needed to be made, please let us know_

_right away. Once your order ships out, you will receive tracking_

_information in an email. If you will be out of town any time in the_

_next 3 weeks for more than a few days, please let us know so we can plan_

_your shipment accordingly._

Sounds like I got my order in at about the perfect time. I was told 6 were left available on the shipment, then 5, then I caused 4, and now it sounds like they are sold out again, but that might be just a general comment. One would have to call or email them to find out.   

Woo Woo!!!! Better start cleaning....  Need to pull a 240 line over to it too or make some changes in that area. There is a 240 receptacle in the area that was intended for an air compressor and is not being used now. It is dedicated and available, but about 15 feet away. Or just pull a whole new circuit in....decisions, decisions,.....


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## Proxule (Apr 8, 2021)

Much appreciated on the price breakdown, and happy to hear you are getting yours NOW!
I am not keen on the price bump, I am not sold on the PM yet.
Thanks\


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## Tom O (Apr 8, 2021)

15‘ or so feet of armoured cable shouldn’t set you back much mind you it’s the route you plumb it that usually adds on another 15 or so feet.


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## ShawnR (Apr 10, 2021)

Tom O said:


> 15‘ or so feet of armoured cable shouldn’t set you back much mind you it’s the route you plumb it that usually adds on another 15 or so feet.



I am not worried about that part. In fact, if the compressor circuit is 20 amp, might just put a cover plate and conduit fitting in place of the receptacle and surface mount conduit to my spot. I see the new lathe specs a 20 Amp circuit. I probably have most of what I need already. More my comfort zone than making metal parts..... 
BX will work too, just a little less attractive than a nice conduit run since it will be visible.


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## Darren (Apr 12, 2021)

Hey Shawn, that was my Emco you mentioned earlier in the thread. It sold fast. I wish I had 10 more, they all would have sold that day. Anyways, to add to the discussion, business owners and employees can cross the border. So if you were to register a personal company, called Shawn R******* Enterprises (it costs $65, if i recall), and got your Master Business License, you can cross. You'll need to register as an importer as well, which is free. I presume you ordered the lathe in your name, so make sure you call your business something with your name in it. You can only cross for business purposes. You can only bring back items for your business. Hope this helps.


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## ShawnR (Apr 13, 2021)

dfloen said:


> Hey Shawn, that was my Emco you mentioned earlier in the thread. It sold fast. I wish I had 10 more, they all would have sold that day. Anyways, to add to the discussion, business owners and employees can cross the border. So if you were to register a personal company, called Shawn R******* Enterprises (it costs $65, if i recall), and got your Master Business License, you can cross. You'll need to register as an importer as well, which is free. I presume you ordered the lathe in your name, so make sure you call your business something with your name in it. You can only cross for business purposes. You can only bring back items for your business. Hope this helps.



Thanks @dfloen  but I think I will let the local broker bring it in rather than go through the business setup. $375 and they deliver to my door. I used them last week for a plasma cutter and they are very well organized. 

Regards,


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## Proxule (Apr 14, 2021)

What broker did you use if we can ask?

That PM1236 sure is sexy!
thanks


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## ShawnR (Apr 14, 2021)

Proxule said:


> What broker did you use if we can ask?
> 
> That PM1236 sure is sexy!
> thanks



Border Giant


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## ShawnR (Apr 14, 2021)

I was making wheels for the sander today.....can hardly wait for the new lathe! It is not going to make me any better or more knowledgeable, but will be nice to use, I am sure!


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## Chicken lights (Apr 14, 2021)

ShawnR said:


> I was making wheels for the sander today.....can hardly wait for the new lathe! It is not going to make me any better or more knowledgeable, but will be nice to use, I am sure!


There’s some debate on this forum about Snap On tools versus cheap tools. You may not do better work with your new lathe but it won’t be because the tools are holding you back 
Not everyone has the budget for a $150 ratchet nor do most people need that quality but quality tools are a joy to use. Hope you enjoy the new lathe


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## ShawnR (Apr 15, 2021)

Chicken lights said:


> There’s some debate on this forum about Snap On tools versus cheap tools. You may not do better work with your new lathe but it won’t be because the tools are holding you back
> Not everyone has the budget for a $150 ratchet nor do most people need that quality but quality tools are a joy to use. Hope you enjoy the new lathe



I agree. I have often said to younger guys talking about making a purchase of a tool that I have never regretted buying a quality tool, but often regretted buying a cheap one. For me, usually one in the middle works well enough and gives me the confidence that it won't break. 

As for the lathe, an example...  I had my lathe set up for a ~.010" feed rate but last week, I needed to thread a mandrel so off come 4 gears, change it all up, and get my 13 pitch set up. Left it on there and in the last week, several times I wanted to do some tool feeding but was too lazy to change all the gears out again, wishing I had the option to throw a lever and get a tool feed I could use. Yesterday, I needed to cut that 1/2" thread again so the 13 pitch already geared was convenient. But then I needed the tool feed back to something usable so off come 4 gears again, clean off old grease, move all the banjos, yada yada ......  

That will be some of the biggest sense of "joy" I get out of this purchase. And all the other little things. I will probably still miss my boring diameter occasionally or botch up something, but have more fun doing it. And to fix it won't be a detour of tasks...

Cheers,


----------



## Hruul (Apr 15, 2021)

On the other hand, you now know how to adjust the banjos and replace the gears on the lathe.  My first (and only) lathe came with a gear box, so no need to change gears or adjust them.  So, I have not had that experience, and honestly I don't want to mess with it just in case I screw it up.


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## kevin.decelles (Apr 15, 2021)

Regarding gear-changes, If I were doing it every hour, or was using this to earn revenue I'd have an issue with it.  As it is, yes I change gears, but I use it as an opportunity to check my belts, pullies, lubrication etc.


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## ShawnR (Apr 15, 2021)

Hruul said:


> On the other hand, you now know how to adjust the banjos and replace the gears on the lathe.  My first (and only) lathe came with a gear box, so no need to change gears or adjust them.  So, I have not had that experience, and honestly I don't want to mess with it just in case I screw it up.



True, I used to be afraid of doing it for the same reasons. Finally, a few years ago, I decided to do it more often. I made it easier by making a tool that combines most of the 4 tools required to do it(actually 5 different tools required), then made a knurled knob for the door so I would not have to find the allen key to open that with, and then made a stand to hold the gears somewhat organized. It was much easier after doing that...



kevin.decelles said:


> Regarding gear-changes, If I were doing it every hour, or was using this to earn revenue I'd have an issue with it.  As it is, yes I change gears, but I use it as an opportunity to check my belts, pullies, lubrication etc.



True too. A few changes back, I adjusted the drive motor belts and checked them.  Now, the novelty is gone.....

Having whined and complained about that enough....*got an email today that my PM1236 has shipped ! Woo Woo! *


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## Fermic (Apr 23, 2021)

ShawnR said:


> https://www.kijiji.ca/v-view-details.html?adId=1556449333
> 
> I think my introduction to a metal lathe happened on one of these when I worked at a hospital back in 1987! MIght go see it. Not really what I was looking for but heard good things about them. The guy has it tricked out for sure!



It wasn't the Emco Compact 8 with a mill/drill head on it ? If so, I might have snagged that one.


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## Darren (Apr 24, 2021)

Fermic said:


> It wasn't the Emco Compact 8 with a mill/drill head on it ? If so, I might have snagged that one.



That ad was for an Emco V10P that I was selling after I brought my V13 home.  Emco machines are like puppies. You want to keep them all. They are that nice.


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## ShawnR (Apr 24, 2021)

Fermic said:


> It wasn't the Emco Compact 8 with a mill/drill head on it ? If so, I might have snagged that one.



Honestly, I am not sure. That would have been in the late 80's. IIRC, it might have been this one or similar, which sounds like the one you got.

http://www.lathes.co.uk/emco/page2.html 

@Fermic did you buy one that was in a Thunder Bay hospital? Our hospitals amalgamated after I left and I don't know if that machine went into the merger or was sold.


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## Fermic (Apr 24, 2021)

ShawnR said:


> @Fermic did you buy one that was in a Thunder Bay hospital? Our hospitals amalgamated after I left and I don't know if that machine went into the merger or was sold.



I don't think so, I got this one from Mississauga peel region


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## ShawnR (Apr 28, 2021)

It has arrived. Hey @Brent H can you come help me lift it?


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## Hruul (Apr 28, 2021)

Congrats! Send along pictures once it is setup.


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## David_R8 (Apr 28, 2021)

ShawnR said:


> It has arrived. Hey @Brent H can you come help me lift it?


When you cut off the metal banding don't they just fly into your shop?


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## Brent H (Apr 28, 2021)

@ShawnR !!  Woo Hoo!! Awesome!   Just give me a few weeks to steal the ship and we will be there!!!
I hope that pony package is full of liquor!!  LOL


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## ShawnR (May 1, 2021)

Installed. Powered it up this morning just to see if it works. Some controls, as expected, will need to work in a bit as they seem rough or hard to engage but over all, looks good. After looking at the photos, I see the sling impinged on the chuck guard a bit. I think the photo looks worse than it actually was.  No damage done. I guess I was so worried about the balance and placement of the sling, I missed that. My buddy has one of these forklifts and it worked great to move the machine off the trailer once I brought it to the back with the hoe but, as with an engine hoist, we had to play around a bit with positioning of the lathe relative to the stand and forklifts legs. All worked out well. 

Now to clean it up and familiarize myself with it, level it, etc. It has a few more controls than what I am used to! As per the manual, and common sense, I went to check the cam locks on the chuck before turning it on. The key does not work on 1 of the three. a 3/8" ratchet extension seems to get in there. Is this normal? Or maybe just after taking it off and putting it on again, the socket will align in a different position but as it sits now, the key will not work. 

I will get into a bit of a review on it later as I use it a bit.


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## kevin.decelles (May 1, 2021)

How much counter weight do you have in the hoe? I have a little hoe for my tractor and there is no way it will lift that lathe, your setup is beefier


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dusty (May 1, 2021)

Pictures from well-known-member, I assume Dan's fork lift moved your lathe into the shop placing it on it's stand?

That's a neat fork lift never seen one like it before. What brand name is it?


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## Dusty (May 1, 2021)

kevin.decelles said:


> How much counter weight do you have in the hoe? I have a little hoe for my tractor and there is no way it will lift that lathe, your setup is beefier
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I agree Kevin I would think the hoe was close to being maxed out although the lift worked.


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## ShawnR (May 1, 2021)

I don't recall how much counterweight I have in there. It has been years since I built it. Now that I type, I think my counterweight was some old leaf springs, whatever would fit in the 4" tubing. No where near what the plans called for but I thought I would try it and have not looked at it since. Seems to work. It does lift very well for its size. If the object was not so valuable, I would have been a little more carefree with it but I wanted to just lift it off of the pallets and bring it to the end of the trailer. If need be, I would have put it on the ground or even onto the bench but that would mean working in the exhaust in the garage and a bit of juggling.  I was by myself at the time so did not go too high. Dan was not available till later. 

For those interested, the plans are the CADplans 821


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## RobinHood (May 1, 2021)

Congrats on getting the lathe into your shop and safely onto the pedestal.



ShawnR said:


> The key does not work on 1 of the three.



That is not normal, but I guess if the cam lock square is at it’s smaller limit for size and the key is at it’s upper limit, there is the chance that they won’t engage. Measure them. Check for and deburr both of them. If still no go, I would take a bit off the key.

Most folks make their own, longer, key as the factory ones are “knuckle busters” by usually being too short to clear the headstock casting.

Would be a good first project for the new machine...


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## combustable herbage (May 1, 2021)

Great new purchase Shawn, should serve you well for many years looks good in the shop.


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## ShawnR (May 1, 2021)

RobinHood said:


> Congrats on getting the lathe into your shop and safely onto the pedestal.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks @RobinHood ...It is not that the tool will not fit into the socket, but rather, the handle conflicts with the headstock. Just that angle that is a little bit off! I will play around with it but good idea on making a new longer one. Even the sockets that are oriented in a way that works still look like bandaid territory


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## ShawnR (May 3, 2021)

I spent the morning cleaning the machine, deburring where I can, fitting the rear chip guard, etc. , and just learning a bit about the machine. I had some time to figure out some of these new controls. I found it very hard to get the carriage change gear box into any or all gears. I was trying with the machine off. I also found that with the power feed engaged in the left to right position (reversed?) there was a very loud "gears slight not meshing " noise coming from the machine but in neutral or normal (right to left), it was quiet. I took a video and emailed the link to Precision Matthews. The reply I got was that this is normal. It sure does not sound normal so I kept exploring. I found that the lever has 2 stops to the right. The first one would tend to get missed and right into the second one, which seems to move the gear past a good mesh and into a slight miss. I emailed PM back and the tech says he has the same machine and has just put up with the noise. I am hoping he gets back to me with a similar finding and can advise future customers with the advice to not "over engage" the feed lever to the right. Moving it to the left, I think the throw lever in the gear box hits the side and prevents it from going too far.

And then, I actually, made some chips and played with power cross feed and feeds, speeds, etc. Wow! Big step up from what I am used to....

It came with 5 tool holders for the BXA holder. I cleaned those up and checked them out. Massive compared to the QCTP on my little B2227. Interesting, found a knurling tool (did not recall it came with one) and on the backside, it holds a regular tool. I will need a much larger boring bar I guess....everything just got bigger.  And probably need more regular tool holders too..... Might have to come out of retirement....

Cheers,


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## Brent H (May 3, 2021)

@ShawnR : sounds exactly like poor meshing gears. Could be just a proper detent adjustment.  Our lathe at work has three settings for speed and a loose set screw and slight gear adjustment made a big difference


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## Proxule (May 4, 2021)

What a joker reply from PM
No ty for 7500$
There are ball detents with springs and set screws compressing the detent balls. Crank in on the screws.... so when you hit the designed spot for the balls to fall into ( a hole on the casting ) it will engage with force and you will know youre home. As apposed to over shooting and thus your mis match gears.

Gluck


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## PeterT (May 4, 2021)

Agree that the ball detente may be influencing the position engagement where it's not quite 'in'. Check your manual but typically there is a roll pin through the knob & shaft to remove. Then carefully remove the knob because the spring & ball may want to fly across the room. It could be the detente is drilled proper but filled with debris. Or its a bad hole & the ball doesn't fit proper. (Careful here you dont want to modify unless you are sure). If that all checks out you may have to inspect the lever /slider mechanism inside that is displacing the gears which is what the shafts are moving.

Also when you shift a lever into gear its common to have to rotate the chuck just a bit just to get the gears to engage into phase with one another. Just pushing the lever is forcing them to try & align but that doesn't work well if they happen to be further out of phase. I don't think there is anything like a synchro mechanism on these machines


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## YotaBota (May 4, 2021)

Congrats on the new machine.


ShawnR said:


> the tech says he has the same machine and has just put up with the noise


I wonder if the tech is the owners son.


ShawnR said:


> everything just got bigger


I'm in the same boat going from the SM9 to the SM1120, bigger tool post, bigger boring bars, bigger centers and the list goes on, but totally worth it.


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## Darren (May 4, 2021)

Shawn,  is the change gear quadrant adjustable? My Emco , which may be similar,  will make a lot more noise if the gears are too tight.  Post a pic


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## historicalarms (May 5, 2021)

When i took a SAIT night gunsmithing course one of the first things we were shown to lookout for was improper gear meshing on the outboard gearing that runs the power feed directional shaft & feed speed gearbox. A lathe was set up purposely to run noisily and then re-set to run smoothly....I was surprised by how noisy a gear train could be with a little bit of incorrect gear meshing. 
    While I have never had ant problem with power feed gearing , I did have a bunch of adjustments that had to be done in the headstock gearbox so gears mesh lined up with the lever detents (mine has levers, the one in the video here has those two 'arrowed" knobs). In my lathe, and i suspect yours will be the same as they originate from the same side of the ocean I think, I soon run into problems shifting gears and having the detents not place/lock the change-gears in the proper place. So, off came the gearbox cover and I discovered the problem immediately. The locking grub screws that lock the shift forks to the shaft from the outside levers couldn't be tightened enough to hold with much resistance it the gears didn't instantly line up . Two reasons I couldnt tighten them up enough ....first was constant oil splash kept the shafts very well lubed up and the second, mostly the culprit was the shift fork casting was not very beafy and I was very leery of stripping the threads on a "not very readily replaceable part". When i first removed the cover I could see that some of the gears, when i thought they were in position were actually only engaging corner-to-corner, just enough to drive the headstock.

    The fix was really quite easy, and I suggest you have a look under the cover on your new lathe.  I positioned the sliding change gear for each shift fork on a gear that it was supposed to run on, with the grub screw removed I center punched the shaft thru the screw hole. Now I manufacture a center-drilled drill guide that would slip fit into the screw hole to protect the threads from damage and drilled a small dimple into the shaft for the grub screw to embed into. That was 15 years ago and they have yet to come loose since then.


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## Crankit (May 5, 2021)

Yuchol from Woods Creek Workshop had to adjust the detents on his Jet lathe, He did a YT video on it a while ago


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## YotaBota (May 5, 2021)

historicalarms said:


> suggest you have a look under the cover on your new lathe


That would also give you a chance to see how clean it is inside. There are horror stories out there about how much casting flash /sand and swarf is left in the bottom of a head stock from the factory.


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## ShawnR (May 5, 2021)

YotaBota said:


> Congrats on the new machine.
> 
> I wonder if the tech is the owners son.
> 
> I'm in the same boat going from the SM9 to the SM1120, bigger tool post, bigger boring bars, bigger centers and the list goes on, but totally worth it.



lol..don't know if he is related. I think he was young and inexperienced. Just happened to answer the email. I cc'd sales on the correspondence to let them in on conversation.

Yes, as to bigger is better. The rigidity is noticeably better, resulting in a better finish, so far. Attached photo shows difference in size of tool holders.


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## ShawnR (May 5, 2021)

dfloen said:


> Shawn,  is the change gear quadrant adjustable? My Emco , which may be similar,  will make a lot more noise if the gears are too tight.  Post a pic



Honestly, I am not overly worried about it. Now that I know what is going on, it is easy to deal with....but, due to the response here, maybe I should be more concerned. 

I will take another look at it. I don't want to void my warranty messing with something that is like a manual transmission,,,you can find the wrong gear if looking for it. Having said that, it would be nice to just throw the lever into position. I am giving my self time to get used to it...maybe it is my small but generally ham fisted actions causing the issue...

Here is the photo. As shown, the arrow points to the feed gear. In the photo, it is in the correct position for a right direction feed, and this position does have a corresponding "endent?" where it should be. However, when moving it, cause things are still tight, I suspect, it is easy to overshoot this position and move the gear more to the right, causing the noise in the video. The same distance is not attainable when going in the other direction cause the gear is limited by the wall of the gearbox. 

I will compare what is there to what the parts diagram shows.


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## ShawnR (May 5, 2021)

Crankit said:


> Yuchol from Woods Creek Workshop had to adjust the detents on his Jet lathe, He did a YT video on it a while ago



Interesting...I will go take a look. Thanks!



YotaBota said:


> That would also give you a chance to see how clean it is inside. There are horror stories out there about how much casting flash /sand and swarf is left in the bottom of a head stock from the factory.



I will do that. Good idea. I only looked at the gears the one time I was in but will do a better look this time.


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## ShawnR (May 5, 2021)

historicalarms said:


> When i took a SAIT night gunsmithing course one of the first things we were shown to lookout for was improper gear meshing on the outboard gearing that runs the power feed directional shaft & feed speed gearbox. A lathe was set up purposely to run noisily and then re-set to run smoothly....I was surprised by how noisy a gear train could be with a little bit of incorrect gear meshing.
> While I have never had ant problem with power feed gearing , I did have a bunch of adjustments that had to be done in the headstock gearbox so gears mesh lined up with the lever detents (mine has levers, the one in the video here has those two 'arrowed" knobs). In my lathe, and i suspect yours will be the same as they originate from the same side of the ocean I think, I soon run into problems shifting gears and having the detents not place/lock the change-gears in the proper place. So, off came the gearbox cover and I discovered the problem immediately. The locking grub screws that lock the shift forks to the shaft from the outside levers couldn't be tightened enough to hold with much resistance it the gears didn't instantly line up . Two reasons I couldnt tighten them up enough ....first was constant oil splash kept the shafts very well lubed up and the second, mostly the culprit was the shift fork casting was not very beafy and I was very leery of stripping the threads on a "not very readily replaceable part". When i first removed the cover I could see that some of the gears, when i thought they were in position were actually only engaging corner-to-corner, just enough to drive the headstock.
> 
> The fix was really quite easy, and I suggest you have a look under the cover on your new lathe.  I positioned the sliding change gear for each shift fork on a gear that it was supposed to run on, with the grub screw removed I center punched the shaft thru the screw hole. Now I manufacture a center-drilled drill guide that would slip fit into the screw hole to protect the threads from damage and drilled a small dimple into the shaft for the grub screw to embed into. That was 15 years ago and they have yet to come loose since then.



Very interesting. I certainly hope I don't have to go that far but it will be good to explore this. Thank you!!


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## David_R8 (May 5, 2021)

That sounds exactly like my SB did when I engage the back gears. Turned out the gear mesh was waaaay loose. Fortunately I could adjust that which solved the problem. 
I did notice that it only occurs when feeding away from the chuck. Or am I mistaken?


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## Crankit (May 5, 2021)

Shawn 

Another thing you could do is search a thread on the hobby-machinist forum and see what is there for answers, or start a thread, Matt does occasionally pop up on there and has helped solve issues that pop up with his machines
https://www.hobby-machinist.com/forums/precision-matthews-quality-machine-tools.172/

Wayne


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## ShawnR (May 5, 2021)

Crankit said:


> Shawn
> 
> Another thing you could do is search a thread on the hobby-machinist forum and see what is there for answers, or start a thread, Matt does occasionally pop up on there and has helped solve issues that pop up with his machines
> https://www.hobby-machinist.com/forums/precision-matthews-quality-machine-tools.172/
> ...



Matt actually responded to one of my emails when I was trying to get the credit issued (remember the price went up between my quote and the actual purchase...? they honoured the quote but it took a few emails and Matt finalized it) And, as you point to, Precision Matthews has a whole forum dedicated to their machines. I posted there regarding spacing on the cast iron bases and got some good responses. One guy there was receiving the same lathe from the same shipment.

I kind of think this (clashing issue) is user error or new equipment familiarization stuff. It would be nice if the user could just throw the gear in but I don't expect that. After reading the comments here, I went back out to experiment a bit more.  I found that there is an indent in the right position, but it is very subtle. And then it is possible to go beyond it into the gear rubbing zone..*which I was doing*.. So, as a new user, I was going past it.  LIke my wife,.... I blame me...................................   As I get to know the machine, I will learn to detect the indent. I had no problem today switching it into the correct position. Interesting, the lathe shut off if I started it while the feed screw was in the "noisy" position but was ok to start with the power feed in the proper position...sooo, some switch is properly set somewhere, I think.

I would like to tweak it so I cannot overshoot, but honestly, now that I know what I am doing, it won't be an issue. 

Cheers, 

Shawn


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## ShawnR (May 5, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> That sounds exactly like my SB did when I engage the back gears. Turned out the gear mesh was waaaay loose. Fortunately I could adjust that which solved the problem.
> I did notice that it only occurs when feeding away from the chuck. Or am I mistaken?



that is interesting too. Thanks!


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## PeterT (May 5, 2021)

If its like my machine, it could be the spring that acts against the ball & thus ball into detente socket is set with a bit too light of compression. Some have a set screw that you can adjust. Some are just  spring plopped in a hole. Before stretching or whatever, maybe drop a small removable spacer plug in there to artificially increase compression force & see if that helps. Some levers can swing past the engage position, but what you want is a positive feel that its properly engaged. I had to monkey with my banjo gear change levers in this regard. And over time, the springs can loose force, so all part of the game.

But particularly when you engage/disengage the main levers, power feed mode, threading mode, Fwd/rev... make sure the gears are meshed. Like I was saying, its common to rotate the chuck just a fraction & have it drop into position with a satisfying thunk. Mine is a bit vague right around neutral. If the gears are only partially engaged & you hit power, no good becomes of this.


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## ShawnR (May 5, 2021)

PeterT said:


> If its like my machine, it could be the spring that acts against the ball & thus ball into detente socket is set with a bit too light of compression. Some have a set screw that you can adjust. Some are just  spring plopped in a hole. Before stretching or whatever, maybe drop a small removable spacer plug in there to artificially increase compression force & see if that helps. Some levers can swing past the engage position, but what you want is a positive feel that its properly engaged. I had to monkey with my banjo gear change levers in this regard. And over time, the springs can loose force, so all part of the game.
> 
> But particularly when you engage/disengage the main levers, power feed mode, threading mode, If the gears are only partially engaged & you hit power, no good becomes of this.



Thanks Peter.  I will look at that. From the parts diagram, it looks like the spring indents are set from the top, once the cover is removed.


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## Darren (May 5, 2021)

Did you check the change gear backlash? My emco sounded the same when the gears were too tight. Reversing the feed loads the gears the other way and they were a bit more quiet. Readjusted them and now they are silent. Something to check


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## ShawnR (May 6, 2021)

dfloen said:


> Did you check the change gear backlash? My emco sounded the same when the gears were too tight. Reversing the feed loads the gears the other way and they were a bit more quiet. Readjusted them and now they are silent. Something to check



Thanks @dfloen I will play around with that and see if it is adjustable but I had other success today.

The indent ball bearings are accessible directly from the lever. I looked at the parts diagram a little more closely today and they were right in front of me all this time..... 
I found them to be very lightly adjusted, as several of you suggested.  I pulled the set screws out to ensure that the ball bearings were in there and both springs were good and they are so I oiled and reassembled, then adjusted them quite a bit tighter than they were. It seems much easier to detect the correct position now. It is still possible to overshoot but I have to do it on purpose now to do it.

Thanks everyone for all of the input.


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## Proxule (May 7, 2021)

ShawnR said:


> Honestly, I am not overly worried about it. Now that I know what is going on, it is easy to deal with....but, due to the response here, maybe I should be more concerned.
> 
> I will take another look at it. I don't want to void my warranty messing with something that is like a manual transmission,,,you can find the wrong gear if looking for it. Having said that, it would be nice to just throw the lever into position. I am giving my self time to get used to it...maybe it is my small but generally ham fisted actions causing the issue...
> 
> ...



Yikes look at that bearing support, upper shaft left side, Shame they couldnt widen that casting half an inch, Good ol china. Willing to bet every copy of that lathe is the same.


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## Proxule (May 7, 2021)

ShawnR said:


> Thanks @dfloen I will play around with that and see if it is adjustable but I had other success today.
> 
> The indent ball bearings are accessible directly from the lever. I looked at the parts diagram a little more closely today and they were right in front of me all this time.....
> I found them to be very lightly adjusted, as several of you suggested.  I pulled the set screws out to ensure that the ball bearings were in there and both springs were good and they are so I oiled and reassembled, then adjusted them quite a bit tighter than they were. It seems much easier to detect the correct position now. It is still possible to overshoot but I have to do it on purpose now to do it.
> ...


youre most welcome! glad its solved


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## PeterT (May 7, 2021)

I've always wondered about the sequence of how they set these gearboxes up at the factory. My shifting forks are kind of crude looking parts. I guess they just have a simple function - slide the gear over. But if there is excess fork gap or non-adjust ability then that slop just cascades up to the selector knob & ball detente. So do they assemble the gear train & locate the detente hole last to suit eyeballing the gears are aligned? Is there anything that looks like an adjustment screw inside? It seems to me my gears had stops or rings to limit movement on the shaft. Maybe have a look at your manual & that the parts they show on exploded view match what is there in real life. Ya never know, anything is possible,


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## historicalarms (May 8, 2021)

PeterT said:


> I've always wondered about the sequence of how they set these gearboxes up at the factory. My shifting forks are kind of crude looking parts. I guess they just have a simple function - slide the gear over. But if there is excess fork gap or non-adjust ability then that slop just cascades up to the selector knob & ball detente. So do they assemble the gear train & locate the detente hole last to suit eyeballing the gears are aligned? Is there anything that looks like an adjustment screw inside? It seems to me my gears had stops or rings to limit movement on the shaft. Maybe have a look at your manual & that the parts they show on exploded view match what is there in real life. Ya never know, anything is possible,
> 
> View attachment 14650



There was infinite fork adjustment available on my machine as it came from the factory, just that set screw on a round shaft until I "fixed it" (post# 171). before the fix, I could have set the lever at any position in 360 deg circle if i wanted, bypassing the detents at any time if I so choose too.


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## John Conroy (May 8, 2021)

On my lathe it appears that they install the shift fork onto the shaft and tighten the set screw to hold it in place after alignment is established then drill a hole through the shaft and fork and install a roll pin to make the alignment permanent.


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## PeterT (May 8, 2021)

That's actually a pretty robust looking system on your lathe, John. Interesting
Mine has a few extra parts but suspect similar principal


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## historicalarms (May 9, 2021)

John Conroy said:


> On my lathe it appears that they install the shift fork onto the shaft and tighten the set screw to hold it in place after alignment is established then drill a hole through the shaft and fork and install a roll pin to make the alignment permanent.
> 
> View attachment 14653



  Its been a while since I've had the cover off my lathe but other than the roll pins, appears to be the a facsimile of yours.


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## LaurieF (May 30, 2021)

Crankit said:


> Woods Creek Workshop did some Youtube videos on repairs he had to do on a Jet version of the 13x40



Wow, that guy is remarkably sanguine given what he was faced with.  I'd be pretty bummed if I bought a lathe and found the gearbox in such a state.  I have also noted remarks on this forum about folks buying the more inexpensive new lathes and spending many hours getting them into decent shape b/f even powering them up.  Makes a newbie  like me apprehensive about buying anything like that.


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## Dabbler (May 30, 2021)

LaurieF said:


> buying the more inexpensive new lathes and spending many hours



I bought my first lathe new, but all my others have been used, bacause of that effect.  I prefer to buy bigger than I need, used, and known higher quality.  You end up paying about 75% of newer smaller machine, but you get a lot for your money, and rigidity to boot...


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## Darren (May 30, 2021)

Dabbler said:


> I bought my first lathe new, but all my others have been used, bacause of that effect.  I prefer to buy bigger than I need, used, and known higher quality.  You end up paying about 75% of newer smaller machine, but you get a lot for your money, and rigidity to boot...




 agree 100%


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## Crankit (May 31, 2021)

LaurieF said:


> Wow, that guy is remarkably sanguine given what he was faced with.  I'd be pretty bummed if I bought a lathe and found the gearbox in such a state.  I have also noted remarks on this forum about folks buying the more inexpensive new lathes and spending many hours getting them into decent shape b/f even powering them up.  Makes a newbie  like me apprehensive about buying anything like that.



He also had to do spindle bearings on a new PM mill that had more run out than spec'd for


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## John Conroy (May 31, 2021)

Congrats on the new lathe Shawn. It doesn't matter where a machine was made, USA, England, Germany, Taiwan or mainland China, it will have it's own set of shortcomings and positives. Put some hours on it and then change all the fluids. I recommend that you remove the headstock cover when you change the oil. I guarantee you will find wear metals, both ferrous and non-ferrous, in the bottom of the sump. Don't let rumors of junk Chinese machines worry you, that is perfectly normal, regardless of where the machine was made. Try to wipe out as much of the wear material as you can. You really don't need to worry about that material being circulated with the oil if you use the correct non-detergent circulating oil recommended in the manual. I placed a round magnet in the bottom of the sump when I did the first oil change on my lathe so I could monitor the accumulation of ferrous wear metal. I have changed the oil 3 times since and there is always a little bit of fuzzy wear metal stuck to the magnet but again, that is perfectly normal. I think you picked the right vendor. If you bought a Busy Bee or King Canada machine you could expect very little in the way of after sales support. Based on my previous experience with Precision Matthews, they will look after you if you have any problems and you will always be able to get replacement parts.

Here you can see that round speaker magnet stuck to the bottom of my headstock sump.


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## LaurieF (May 31, 2021)

Seems a bit much alright but, I wonder if maybe such stuff might also be considered as sort of sweat equity, similar to assisting in the building of one's house to save money?  I would hope that PM paid for the bearings in any case.

I'm getting the idea that one could buy a new inexpensive lathe (or milling machine), completely dissemble it, clean and lube thoroughly, replace all fasteners and maybe bearings with better quality and even do a little scraping, clean up the burrs, get a good result for a bargain price(?) and have a bit/maybe a lot of fun doing it.


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## John Conroy (May 31, 2021)

LaurieF said:


> Wow, that guy is remarkably sanguine given what he was faced with.  I'd be pretty bummed if I bought a lathe and found the gearbox in such a state.  I have also noted remarks on this forum about folks buying the more inexpensive new lathes and spending many hours getting them into decent shape b/f even powering them up.  Makes a newbie  like me apprehensive about buying anything like that.



If you look back at his previous videos you'll see that he bought that lathe as a damaged machine for 50% off the regular price so I think he was expecting to have some work to do on it.


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