# Back into it... sorta...maybe a bit.



## painly (Feb 15, 2021)

Hello all.

My name is Barret Russell and I reside in Saskatoon Sk. The home of almost no good used machinery! ha. Actually, I hitch hiked back from Toronto with an SB 9a about 15 years ago; but that's another story. My involvement in fabrication started in my early teens when I bought a MIG welder and started making lowrider bicycles, then in highschool started working on cars. Took a hiatus for uni and then in my late 20's became a bicycle frame fabricator. I built all my own jigging and to do this I owned a Peerless 18in shaper, Cincinnati 2mh, Sb 9a, and some other peripheral equipment for machining. I really enjoyed bike building but it was a hobby that never took off into a real paycheck. I also did my own paint. In those 5 years, I made maybe 30 frames and forks. I went back to school for a BSN and along with a few moves, lost the mill and shaper, rotary table, frame jig, and a good lot of scrap metal I'd been dragging around. Now, settled into nursing, and wanting to get my hands dirty, I have started to watch more and more machining videos and daydreaming of projects...still mostly bicycle related. I bought a little x2 sieg mini mill as it popped up locally, a 4in vise, and a 4in rotary table last month. My first project is a spindle for an electric bike motor pack. I broke the original while traveling down a mountain at 50kmh. This spindle may also force me to build a small oven...that's for another topic as well. It feels good to have a mill again to complement my little lathe, and albeit small, I am more than content with tiny cuts for my tiny parts I intend to make for my tiny projects. I also have a stepper motor and controller on order to turn the RT into an arduino controlled machine to act double duty as a dividing head and welding RT. 

Anyways, thanks for the awesome forum! it has been fun lurking and I look forward in participating. 

Barrett


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## CalgaryPT (Feb 15, 2021)

You're going to fit right in here Barret. I'm more on the fabricating side than machining, but can relate to the bike frame stuff as I have done a few of those, but more with roll cages etc. and hydraulic bending. Maybe you do some silicon bronze brazing as well???

Welcome from Calgary.


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## painly (Feb 15, 2021)

CalgaryPT said:


> You're going to fit right in here Barret. I'm more on the fabricating side than machining, but can relate to the bike frame stuff as I have done a few of those, but more with roll cages etc. and hydraulic bending. Maybe you do some silicon bronze brazing as well???
> 
> Welcome from Calgary.



Hi Pete!

All brazing for the bikes I made, no arc ever touched them. Mostly silver (56%) and brass (mostly for fillets and the odd lug)...and sadly I SOLD my oxy-acetylene last year to fund (mentally) a tig welder. Now I am looking at oxy-prop setups, and kicking myself. I did a lot of fancy work, carved lugs and bi-laminate work.


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## CalgaryPT (Feb 15, 2021)

That's beautiful work...way above my hacks.

I started playing with silicon bronze TIG welding last year a bit. Technically it is brazing and not welding, but because you use your TIG machine people still call it welding. With the right rod it is strong enough for bike frames. I use it on chrome moly and regular steel tubing. I'm no expert, but I can see with enough practice it could become a go-to process. Plus, it looks different, especially if you buff the joints and clear coat instead of paint. I sold my O/A years ago too. I regretted it only until I discovered silicon bronze rods and a TIG are a nice substitute.


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## francist (Feb 15, 2021)

Nice frames there Barrett. And one of few people who own or have owned a Peerless shaper — I have an 8” that still does a lot of things for me. Welcome.

-frank


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## painly (Feb 15, 2021)

CalgaryPT said:


> That's beautiful work...way above my hacks.
> 
> I started playing with silicon bronze TIG welding last year a bit. Technically it is brazing and not welding, but because you use your TIG machine people still call it welding. With the right rod it is strong enough for bike frames. I use it on chrome moly and regular steel tubing. I'm no expert, but I can see with enough practice it could become a go-to process. Plus, it looks different, especially if you buff the joints and clear coat instead of paint. I sold my O/A years ago too. I regretted it only until I discovered silicon bronze rods and a TIG are a nice substitute.



Thanks Pete!
I have been meaning to p/u some of those rods. .028 chromo tubing would take waaaay more skill than I have to weld, and I feel it will be a bit safer to attempt with the bronze. Speaking of chromo. I have always ordered my non-bicycle specific brands from aircraft spruce, are there other choices for the thinner stuff? I am in the process of building an electric dutch style cargo bike and can't get mild steel in thin enough walls locally so I might as well go chromo.


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## painly (Feb 15, 2021)

francist said:


> Nice frames there Barrett. And one of few people who own or have owned a Peerless shaper — I have an 8” that still does a lot of things for me. Welcome.
> 
> -frank


Tahnks Frank, 

You know, like all of my machines, I regret selling it. I got it with an 8in vise from Nutana machine here in town for $400! Sold it for the same. I made about half of my gears for the SB 9a on that thing though. If it were an 8in, it would still be in my shop!


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## David_R8 (Feb 15, 2021)

Welcome to the forum @painly, that's some beautiful work there!


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## CalgaryPT (Feb 15, 2021)

painly said:


> Thanks Pete!
> I have been meaning to p/u some of those rods. .028 chromo tubing would take waaaay more skill than I have to weld, and I feel it will be a bit safer to attempt with the bronze. Speaking of chromo. I have always ordered my non-bicycle specific brands from aircraft spruce, are there other choices for the thinner stuff? I am in the process of building an electric dutch style cargo bike and can't get mild steel in thin enough walls locally so I might as well go chromo.


You have me confused with someone who is skilled....LOL. I use the stuff, but don't claim to be good at it. The thinnest wall I will use is about 1/16". Thinner than that I tap out on tubing—sheet metal I'm OK to 22 gauge, but tubing I just can't get the hang of so well with TIG. Silicon bronze is more like soldering to me once the heat is dialed in. You'll notice my pics don't show the joint, because most are too ugly; I'm just not good enough on tubing yet. I usually resort to MIG.

BTW I have to ask—because lots of frame guys seem to be religious on this matter—how do you do your fish mouths? I've had lots of jigs over the years but finally settled on "The Beast" about ten years ago, which I love now.


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## painly (Feb 15, 2021)

CalgaryPT said:


> You have me confused with someone who is skilled....LOL. I use the stuff, but don't claim to be good at it. The thinnest wall I will use is about 1/16". Thinner than that I tap out on tubing—sheet metal I'm OK to 22 gauge, but tubing I just can't get the hang of so well with TIG. Silicon bronze is more like soldering to me once the heat is dialed in. You'll notice my pics don't show the joint, because most are too ugly; I'm just not good enough on tubing yet. I usually resort to MIG.
> 
> BTW I have to ask—because lots of frame guys seem to be religious on this matter—how do you do your fish mouths? I've had lots of jigs over the years but finally settled on "The Beast" about ten years ago, which I love now.
> 
> ...



Hey Pete, 
"The Beast" looks just that! I like it. For most of my miters I used a machined tool post of sorts that fit on the lathe. Maybe I will dig it out tomorrow and post a pic. If I recall correctly, I did some fancy interlocking v-block stuff so I could get 4 points of contact on the tube, but as well, being interlocking I could get it narrow enough to do the chain and seat stays, which are a smaller diameter than the block would naturally allow. On the thinner and more expensive stuff, I would end up just making a paper template and doing it by hand. A little more effort and a lot less stress.


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## Swharfin' (Feb 17, 2021)

Welcome painly< great projects. I look forward to your ebike posts


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## Hruul (Feb 17, 2021)

Welcome to the forum.  Glad to have you here.


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## BevanTaylor (Feb 27, 2021)

painly said:


> Hey Pete,
> "The Beast" looks just that! I like it. For most of my miters I used a machined tool post of sorts that fit on the lathe. Maybe I will dig it out tomorrow and post a pic. If I recall correctly, I did some fancy interlocking v-block stuff so I could get 4 points of contact on the tube, but as well, being interlocking I could get it narrow enough to do the chain and seat stays, which are a smaller diameter than the block would naturally allow. On the thinner and more expensive stuff, I would end up just making a paper template and doing it by hand. A little more effort and a lot less stress.



Do you have any tips on how to cut copes by hand? I've just started, and I'm using my 5" grinder and my 'eyecrometer' but the results have not been especially promising so far.


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## painly (Feb 27, 2021)

BevanTaylor said:


> Do you have any tips on how to cut copes by hand? I've just started, and I'm using my 5" grinder and my 'eyecrometer' but the results have not been especially promising so far.


Bevan, I remember there being a program that you entered the tube diameter and angle and it would give the shape to be printed , cut out and wrapped around the tube so a line could be drawn and then cut. Imo a file in addition to your hack saw or cut off wheel is necessary.


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## BevanTaylor (Feb 28, 2021)

painly said:


> Bevan, I remember there being a program that you entered the tube diameter and angle and it would give the shape to be printed , cut out and wrapped around the tube so a line could be drawn and then cut. Imo a file in addition to your hack saw or cut off wheel is necessary.


Thanks! I found a version of that here:
https://metalgeek.com/static/cope.pcgi
I'll try it out this week and let you know how it works out. Also an excuse for me to buy the set of files I've had my eye on at the tool liquidators!


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