# Sourcing Metal | General Discussion



## Janger (Jun 19, 2015)

At the last meetup we were discussing where to buy metal. I have more information.

Metal supermarket: they have lots of selection including the only place I know of to get 12L14 here in town which is very good for machining. They also have aluminium, steel, hot & cold roll, plate, sheet, stainless, copper, and brass. They are open on weekends, Sat. Still on the bad side they are as expensive, more expensive or less expensive than home depot depending on I don't know what. Whims, the moon, maybe qty but not always. Check your invoice before you pay.

Federal metals:
I just called federal metals. Their new building which will add aluminium, stainless steel, to their hot roll steel sales is still not finished as they keep having delays with the builder apparently. He was unable to say when it would open. Soon I hope, and I have high hopes for a better smaller supplier than metal supermarket. They are great for hot roll steel if that is what you want. Good prices. M-F only I think.

Samuel specialty metals. They have aluminium and stainless. Example Price was $50 for angle 1.5x1.5" x1/4 thick by 20'  long aluminium angle. $125 minimum charge so you would have to buy three pieces for $150 in that example. I dont think they do cutting to buy less, but they probably would cut so you can get it home. Group purchase anyone? To compare angle 1x1x 1/8 thick by 6 feet long at homedepot is probably $30. Their sister company is wilkinson steel but I didn't call them. Open M-F 9-3!

Big Box suppliers... Homedepot, rona, princess. Princess is a little less than the other hardware stores. They are good for threaded rod. They also have really cheap bearings, but tend to be out of stock on particular sizes. All these stores are convenient and expensive. A few things not intended for machining can be used for various metal working projects. Electrical conduit. Gas pipe. Grounding rods.

I think steel should be about $1 a pound. At federal it seems to be $1-1.5 a pound generally. What about Al? at Samuel its $3.11/lb for example. And Stainless? And 12L14? Anyone?

Who else? Please relay your experience.
Online? Just browsing it seems expensive.

And fasteners. Screws etc. where is good? Good selection, open on weekends, and not expensive.

2016 edits 
Metal Works Canada
http://canadianhobbymetalworkers.com/threads/new-metal-supplier-in-calgary.390/#post-3662


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## Jwest7788 (Jun 19, 2015)

Hey, Great write up. Agreed, Federal is cheap, but limited selection of metals. (But great selection of hot rolled, haha)

One note, you have an extra dimension in both of your examples:
1.5x1.5 x1/4 X 20' 
1x1x1/8 X 6'
My brain basically fell apart trying to visualize the examples until it clocked what was going on.

I would be open to a group order!

onlinemetals.com is the only online supplier I look at, their "protobox" things seem cool. (like a 20lb protobox of mixed aluminum could be awesome, or terrible. Not sure yet.)


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## Janger (Jun 19, 2015)

Yah if that protobox is full of 20 pounds of aluminium window extrusion, maybe 40 three inch cutt-offs, that would suck. You still want to use my band saw?


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## Jwest7788 (Jun 19, 2015)

Janger said:


> Yah if that protobox is full of 20 pounds of aluminium window extrusion, maybe 40 three inch cutt-offs, that would suck. You still want to use my band saw?


Yes I do, and yes, that would be awful.

It's my birthday today (yay!, lol).  "The gang" and I are going out tonight, so depending on how the night goes, I may or may not be out of commission early tomorrow. Is there any time that works particularly well for you over the weekend though? I can work to your schedule!

JW


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## Alexander (Jun 19, 2015)

Anything under $1.50 per pound is a good deal to me. I dig the scrap pile at federal allot. Sometimes there are nice 3' length's of round bar. Try allied metals they are on the other side of the bridge from federal metals. Rock bottom prices there if you want a full length.


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## Janger (Jun 19, 2015)

Allied metals, ok another place to try. What do they carry? Btw Federal does not let you dig anymore. 



Alexander said:


> Anything under $1.50 per pound is a good deal to me. I dig the scrap pile at federal allot. Sometimes there are nice 3' length's of round bar. Try allied metals they are on the other side of the bridge from federal metals. Rock bottom prices there if you want a full length.


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## Alexander (Jun 19, 2015)

I am sorry to hear federal metals isn't letting the public in anymore. When did they tell you that? I know I bought some material out of there scrap pile in the back corner of the yard in April. Allied is a great source for everything hot rolled. If you call them they may have more stuff. I have only bought hot rolled material there twice, but it was really good deal


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## Janger (Jun 20, 2015)

Alexander said:


> I am sorry to hear federal metals isn't letting the public in anymore. When did they tell you that? I know I bought some material out of there scrap pile in the back corner of the yard in April. Allied is a great source for everything hot rolled. If you call them they may have more stuff. I have only bought hot rolled material there twice, but it was really good deal



I dont see Allied on the map near federal metals. There is a sheet metal fabricator called Allied in the NE....


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## Alexander (Jun 20, 2015)

I drove past the shop because I was totally confused by your post. It is called  Varsteel sorry about that. I rember seeing a little catalog from Varsteel at one of the shops I worked at. One of us should grab a stack of those and we can distribute them at the next meet up.


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## Kris Jensen (Jun 30, 2015)

There is also russel metals they got pretty much anything and can cut down to size for you, my friend gets his 20 foot lengths and 4x8 plate delivered to his house.


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## Kris Jensen (Jun 30, 2015)

Anyone know when federal will have their new building open? it would be interesting to see what their aluminum and stainless goes for.


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## Jwest7788 (Jul 1, 2015)

Seems like not even the guy running the place knows for sure when the new building will be up.


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## PeterT (Jul 3, 2015)

I used OnlineMetals recently out of necessity for my model engine. http://www.onlinemetals.com/
I needed smallish sticks, but specific materials that were hard to source locally without buying a 10-footer which I'll never use (specific aluminum alloys, bearing bronze, 416 stainless, stress proof steel). I am not aware of a Canadian version of OLM. Of note, they offer a discounted shipping feature that helpful to us Kanucks. Basically its UPS but they discount the brokerage & duty assessment fees & so avoids the usual UPS dinger-fee pain. They must have a deal set up like how Amazon (usa) where UPS parcels show up without extra fees. Oh, & they also have plastics & nylon type stock too. You can't get out of the shipping component, metal is heavy so you pay. But I did a couple test orders & it worked out pretty reasonable IMO. For this project I really don't have many options. I did notice many OLM materials were lower than typical MetalSupermarket even with FX exchange, so that helps. I got everything in a 1-foot length so it could come in same single box. The website allows picking onesey-twosey mode with no cut charge, so I got progressive diameters just for handy inventory. (How many times have wasted my 1.0" dia turning down to 0.60" because I didn't have 0.75" etc.)

On the aluminum front, I wish I knew of a local place to dumpster dive. Maybe machine shops keep their cut-offs to themselves these days? MetSup has 6061, but very little else. Aircraft Spruce (Canada division) has cut lengths of various alloys & shapes in 1 foot increments & so no cross border / exchange issues & pretty reasonable shipping. At least aluminum is lighter.
http://www.aircraftspruce.ca/menus/me/aluminum.html?UCOUNTRY=CANcharge


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## PeterT (Jul 3, 2015)

You also asked about fasteners. Locally there is Bolt Supply House (work day hours). Triad just shut down this year. Other places are mostly hardware / construction orientated type suppliers.

I've used KBC for my tooling needs & they offer typical fasteners - cap screws, set screws, washers, imperial, metric, usa, offshore....  http://www.kbctools.ca/
At some point, I'm not sure when, they started pricing their fasteners individually as opposed to min box quantity of 100's. So you can get 25 of these plus 50 of those for reasonable stock charge. The nice thing about KBC is flat 8.95$C shipping. So click-click, composite order shows up at your door within days. I want to support local places but just cant be bothered to take time off work to drive there anymore, only to find out they don't have stock or min qty orders anyway.

Travers (Canada) has much the same service as KBC http://www.traverscanadacatalogs.com/
I've heard about Spanauer (sp?) out east which back in the day was better for the micro thread stuff, but haven't used them myself. I figure a lot of this hardware is all coming out of Asia, so every distributer is a middle man. I've also got some good scores through ebay if you can wait a few weeks. I'm amazed at how they can offer free shipping. Lots of USA based suppliers, just read the shipping to Canada fine print first.


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## Mphenley (Jul 15, 2015)

There's the "new" Reno Depot store, seems like the only location is in Symon's Valley, but their stock in the misc hardware section is actually organized and stocked. Full aisle of assorted fasteners and hardware, most of which in the little drawers like they used to be at Rona or Totem. Metals were typically priced for box stores, but again was fully stocked and available, instead of the smattering of leftovers that most of the box stores have in the angle/flat/threaded/rod section. Fair amount of brass rod too, up to 3/8" diameter, I think.


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## BradH (Sep 5, 2015)

@Peter T - re fasteners...

I use Quest Industrial down near Blackfoot Trail.  The guys there are awesome.

Never used Online Metals, but I have used Speedy Metals out of the US.  Shipped to Montana and picked up there...  chunk of cast iron.


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## PeterT (Sep 5, 2015)

I haven't looked into it yet, but my RC buddies have been shipping some largish kits to Montana & picking up at some border location. Seems like shipping is reasonable within the US, then picks up a whack of expense the last 4 hours into Calgary. The service that will hold for them & allows multiple packages from different sources. Just curious if that's what you are doing?


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## BradH (Sep 6, 2015)

Hi Peter:

Yes, Montana Shipping Outlet / MSO has depots at both Eureka (crossing from west of Fernie in BC) and Sweetgrass (south of Lethbridge).

Have used Eureka pretty much exclusively.  It is a bit of a trek, but makes for a good excuse to ride motorcycle out that way.

Someone indicated they were able to get stuff held at UPS nearer the Chief Mountain crossing, but not sure where that would be.  Babb maybe?  Would cut a few hours off of the trip.


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## SeeWell (Oct 12, 2015)

@PeterT I received my order from www.aircraftspruce.ca the other day and they were great to deal with.  Price was ok for what I wanted, thin walled 4130 cromo tubing in this case and shipping was pretty reasonable.


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## Max Simons (Nov 3, 2015)

Has anybody tried sourcing stock from metal recyclers?


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## John Conroy (Nov 4, 2015)

General Scrap on 156 St. and 121 ave. in Edmonton gives access to recycled metals and also General Steel in the same location sells full lengths of any size of steel you want for wholesale prices. Usually about 25% what it would cost at Metal Supermarket. Metal Supermarket on 156 St and 114 ave. has a "drop bin" where I often pick up short lengths of material which they sell by the pound and is pretty reasonable. For example I got a 16" long piece of 4.5"  6061 aluminum round stock for $42.


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## Kris Jensen (Nov 13, 2015)

Anyone know where I can get some high carbon steel flat bar or even plate need 1/8th to 3/32 for making knife blanks, 1095 steel would be perfect


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## Janger (Nov 13, 2015)

Metal stupid market. If you find anywhere else I would like to know too.


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## Kris Jensen (Nov 13, 2015)

I'll ask around see if any of my contacts know


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## Alexander (Nov 13, 2015)

Stop buying crap from metal supermarkets please! That place is a dam rip off. Check with encore metals. They have a nice website too. I'm not sure if they have that though. I'll hammer my contacts list when I get home tonight.


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## Kris Jensen (Nov 13, 2015)

be on the look out for 1084 steel or 440c stainless too


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## Janger (Nov 13, 2015)

@Alexander Hi - I looked at the encore site. They carry lots of different material! Alex will they sell in smaller quantities? if I needed 1.5" of 6" diameter 12L14 would they do that? Or do they have a minimum like russel metals?


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## Alexander (Nov 13, 2015)

I know when I used to have an account there they would cater to whatever I wanted but there was at least $1000 a month on that account. I haven't bought anything there for 5 years. I was in there recently looking for tool steel. They were super friendly but couldn't get me a piece. It is definitely  worth a try.


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## Janger (Nov 13, 2015)

@Jwest7788  is there a way to ask everyone on here a question in their email or something? I think we should see if encore would setup an account for Canadian Hobby Metal Workers, a cash account, pay for your stuff at the time of order, and everyone in here buying metal commits to buying it from them. Assuming the prices are what I would expect. Maybe it's worth asking everyone?


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## Max Simons (Nov 14, 2015)

I scored a bunch of 2" brass hex stock from Recon metal recycling yesterday for $2/lb


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## Janger (Nov 14, 2015)

Max Simons said:


> I scored a bunch of 2" brass hex stock from Recon metal recycling yesterday for $2/lb



Hey Max
That's good haul! Are you casting it? 

At recon what's the deal? Do they let you pick stuff out of the yard? Do they have steel scrap for cheap? 
J


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## Max Simons (Nov 14, 2015)

Yep, you can go in there and just pick through the scrap


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## Jwest7788 (Nov 18, 2015)

Janger said:


> @Jwest7788  is there a way to ask everyone on here a question in their email or something? I think we should see if encore would setup an account for Canadian Hobby Metal Workers, a cash account, pay for your stuff at the time of order, and everyone in here buying metal commits to buying it from them. Assuming the prices are what I would expect. Maybe it's worth asking everyone?



Good thought. @Alexander and I were discussing something similar after our last meet up. 

I'm on vacation till Monday, with poor access to Internet. But I have an idea on how we can centralize the process. When I get back I'll see about the best way to implement, likely run a beta and see how it goes. 

Expect a new thread in the forum in this regard next week. 


JW


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## Jyman (Dec 9, 2015)

Does anyone know of a scrap metal place in Edmonton that you can pick through?


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## EricB (Dec 9, 2015)

I'd be interested in that too, @Jyman. General Scrap off 50th has a cut-offs shed you can buy from, but you can't go looking for scrapped machines or anything.

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## Jyman (Dec 9, 2015)

Thanks Eric, 

I don't really need to go looking for scrapped machines, it's more so just off cuts I'm looking for.  General scrap you say, the 41 street and 82ave? Have you been there much


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## EricB (Dec 9, 2015)

Been there a few times. Service is less than stellar. I don't have enough experience with suppliers to say if I'd recommend them or not.

I would love to find a yard that lets you buy machines, vises, etc for a price per pound. I've heard of it in the States, and considering the things I've seen thrown out...

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## Janger (Dec 22, 2015)

Note below I sent to Federal Metals ...  I encourage all forum members to follow up to encourage them to stock more material... 

dan@federalmetals.ca, leslie@federalmetals.ca

Hi Dan, Leslie,

I found your names on the web site. I just wanted to tell you how much I appreciate your hassle free - no minimum - easy going service. Being able to drop by and get some new material for my projects and clients for a good price is so helpful. Your web site has the prices which makes it easy and the staff are always great. My only complaint? Not enough selection. I’m machining/metal working - and sourcing material is always a challenge. I know you have this new building saga happening… Recently I have needed some material you don’t have. Aluminium. 20 ga hot roll sheet metal, small lengths of big diameter round stock. 6” OD x 2”. 

My suggestion is to build another set of racks out in the yard there and put up another tent. Stock 6061 Aluminium and some thinner sheet metal. Sell it just how you’re doing now in 10’ lengths. I’ll buy, and so will all my friends on http://canadianhobbymetalworkers.com - there are about 75 members now… 

Thanks for the service, and I’ll see you in the yard. 

John
​


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## Kris Jensen (Dec 22, 2015)

Hey here's what I sent....

Hey Dan and Leslie,
I'm a member of Canadian hobby metal workers and a red seal journeyman welder. As per johns request, we are in need of a readily available supply of 6061 aluminum in various lengths. You guys have always been there when I have needed you for mild steel. If you guys were to build a rack for aluminum I would be one of the first in line to pick up some lengths.

If you need some cheap labour to build and weld that rack let me know

Thanks 
Kris


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## sorrelcreek (Dec 24, 2015)

Thanks for sending that Kris let's hope they will carry more it would be great if they stocked more solid round for machining cause that would be my only place to buy steel from they are the cheapest and best service


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## Matt_b_m (Dec 27, 2015)

@Janger @Kris Jensen

Guys,
Thanks for doing this. So far I haven't had a need for found stock, but it's coming soon. Even if they were able to make a small pile of some 2"- 12" pipe cut offs, some plate scraps, and perhaps some short I beam scraps I'd be happy. I know it's not what everyone wants, but I'd gladly pay for smaller pieces I can use than have to change my ideas to  fit into what's available as new. Current example is the 10" channel iron I needed. I bought 10', because I needed 16". My original design was to be a piece of plate, but it was cheaper to adapt and go with channel, than buy a sheet.
As the group grows, I really think it would be great if some of our needs could be fulfilled and different materials were available with their fair pricing and friendly staff. Been going there for years, always enjoyed the trip.
I too will send them an email, thanks for passing this along.


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## Kris Jensen (Feb 19, 2016)

Hey I'll post this in a few places or help me spread the word. 

I am now working with a trucking company, and a metal supplier to do residential deliveries of full lengths of steel to people who can't get full lengths to their garage shops. Still working on pricing per delivery, but the price of steel will be on par with federal metals website prices. Can do deliveries of any kind of mild steel right now. Need to still hash out the specialty metal stock. 

I hope to start a website where you can order your material online and then maybe one day a week do deliveries.

Best part is the trucking company is very flexible and can time the delivery when you get home from work.

Have had a few test runs with friends and it worked really well. One bulk order and a day of delivering the material.

Starting in Calgary and area 

Let me know what you guys think.


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## Alexander (Feb 20, 2016)

Good idea Kris.  Who do people contact if they want to enquire about taking advantage of this premium service?


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## Kris Jensen (Feb 20, 2016)

Alexander said:


> Good idea Kris.  Who do people contact if they want to enquire about taking advantage of this premium service?


Contact me for now until I setup all the details with the driver, when it's all set up on a regular basis the trucking company will be taking the material orders


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## Janger (Feb 20, 2016)

Kris Jensen said:


> Contact me for now until I setup all the details with the driver, when it's all set up on a regular basis the trucking company will be taking the material orders



Wow Kris 

Ok I'm shopping for 
60' of 1x1 0.125 box tubing and 
a full sheet 4x8 of 1/8" plate. 
And 1/8" round bar 40'
How much is the material and the delivery? 

The alley behind my place is a little tight with corners. Garbage trucks navigate ok but a semi will not fit. What the delivery vehicle? 

What about cold roll? And 20 gauge sheet? Have you got that?


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## Jwest7788 (Feb 20, 2016)

Fantastic work Kris. Exactly the type of thing that we have been looking for. 

Interested in aluminum in particular. Let us know as you get the details worked out!


Sent from my iPhone.


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## Kris Jensen (Feb 21, 2016)

Janger said:


> Wow Kris
> 
> Ok I'm shopping for
> 60' of 1x1 0.125 box tubing and
> ...


It's a 5 ton with a 20' flat deck on it what do you need the 1/8" round bar for? The smallest I can get right now 1/4", when I need that small of round bar I usually just use a 1/8 TIG filler rod


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## Kris Jensen (Feb 21, 2016)

I'll post a price list when we're ready


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## Janger (Mar 6, 2016)

How you doing on this venture Kris?


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## Kris Jensen (Mar 6, 2016)

Janger said:


> How you doing on this venture Kris?


Going to meet with another metal supplier tomorrow for specialty metals to see if I can work something out


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## Jimbojones (May 11, 2016)

Re: Metal Supermarket

I needed some hot-rolled 2" wide bars of various thicknesses for a project and went in to bought some end-cuts. They no longer use their scale but take actual MEASUREMENTS OF SCRAPS to 'calculate' the weight, then charge it out.  Then they dropped the bomb about the cost once they calculated the weight: $30 for a handful.

They didnt indicate 1) the total weight 2) the price per lb..they just simply told me to pay.  I insisted that they explain how they came up with that price since it seemed like nearly retail piece price vs scrap price and they finally told me the details: $1.84/lb for hot roll scraps.  Since I was already there/needed the variety, I paid but man, this place just continues to get pricier each time I go.

BTW - I've been going there off/on for years and used to hand them $20 cash for a good arm load of metal...now I get a single 4' piece of 2 x 3/8"

I stopped by Calgary Metal Recycling on the way home; they don't sell retail.


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## Jwest7788 (May 11, 2016)

@Kris Jensen 

Whatever happened to your supply project you were working on?



Jimbojones said:


> Re: Metal Supermarket
> 
> I needed some hot-rolled 2" wide bars of various thicknesses for a project and went in to bought some end-cuts. They no longer use their scale but take actual MEASUREMENTS OF SCRAPS to 'calculate' the weight, then charge it out.  Then they dropped the bomb about the cost once they calculated the weight: $30 for a handful.
> 
> ...



Yeah, this place is brutal, It seems harder and harder to find good supplies in town if you just need a little bit of something, for sure.

JW


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## Janger (May 11, 2016)

Jimbojones said:


> Re: Metal Supermarket
> 
> I needed some hot-rolled 2" wide bars of various thicknesses for a project and went in to bought some end-cuts. They no longer use their scale but take actual MEASUREMENTS OF SCRAPS to 'calculate' the weight, then charge it out.  Then they dropped the bomb about the cost once they calculated the weight: $30 for a handful.
> 
> ...



Metal stupid market...

Federal metals for hot roll. They even have prices on the web and they're accurate. No scrap though just new in 10' lengths.

Who has been to ReconMetal? In Ogden? The web says they're open Saturday morning. Someone on here talked about buying some material from these guys...


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## Janger (May 11, 2016)

Jwest7788 said:


> @Kris Jensen
> 
> Whatever happened to your supply project you were working on?
> 
> ...



Kris took a job on Vancouver island. How's that going Kris?


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## Jwest7788 (May 11, 2016)

Janger said:


> Kris took a job on Vancouver island. How's that going Kris?


Yeah, I'm curious if @Kris Jensen will pass the torch on that one. Seemed like he was making good progress on a system..


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## SeeWell (May 11, 2016)

Anybody have experience with "Steel Inc."?  Somebody passed a business card my way but I havent checked it out.  I went to the website but doesnt seem to exist (www.steel-incorporated.com)

Bay #30 - 3260 46th Ave SE. Owners name is James Basnett.


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## Jimbojones (May 11, 2016)

Amen, Janger.

I really just needed 1-2' sections of a variety of thicknesses in 2"-wide HR so I cringe when I have to contemplate buying full lengths of multiple sizes of metal.   If I come across something that is hard-to-find or price per length isn't much more $ than my partial cost, I will pay-up for a full length but my shop is already overwhelmed with full lengths of threaded rod, etc.

fwiw - Federal (if I'm reading their price charts properly) appear to be a notably better deal if you're after full lengths.  Thats the problem with a place (MS) that sells it by the inch; they mark it up like it's being sold literally an inch at a time and it becomes unrealistic when compared to longer lengths compared to other suppliers.

I checked Princess Auto on their bar prices;  indeed (relatively) poor selection and the prices on lengths isn't stellar...but at least a few times a year it comes on sale so folks can keep an eye open for those if they want to stock up.



Janger said:


> Metal stupid market...
> 
> Federal metals for hot roll. They even have prices on the web and they're accurate. No scrap though just new in 10' lengths.
> 
> Who has been to ReconMetal? In Ogden? The web says they're open Saturday morning. Someone on here talked about buying some material from these guys...


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## Tom Kitta (Jun 9, 2016)

Russel minimums: Steel - $500.00 and $250.00 for aluminum and stainless steel. But they don't have cold rolled ;(

I am going to get some 2x2 square from federal... others didn't even reply to my emails (encore and varsteel).


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## alman (Jun 10, 2016)

new spot for metal,  Metal Supply, 3260 46 Ave SE CGY   James 587 349 4766


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## Alexander (Jun 10, 2016)

Varsteel is great. I went down there and used my mastercard for a  few 20' lengths. There was no problems, they even cut it in half for me


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## Janger (Jun 10, 2016)

alman said:


> new spot for metal,  Metal Supply, 3260 46 Ave SE CGY   James 587 349 4766


What do they have? Cold roll? Aluminium? Thinner Sheet?


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## alman (Jun 10, 2016)

have to call them yourself, , , , ,


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## Janger (Jun 10, 2016)

alman said:


> new spot for metal,  Metal Supply, 3260 46 Ave SE CGY   James 587 349 4766



These guys seem to be at
Www.steel-incorporated.com
Open Saturday's....
Their Kijiji ad says they have steel and aluminium.


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## Tom Kitta (Jun 10, 2016)

Well, I came in today and paid the steel inc guy a visit. This is the same guy whom has worked at Federal Metals for the last 5 years - he just started his own company.
Good:
- open on Saturdays
- sells aluminium
- stored indoors so less or no rust
- can place custom orders
Bad
- a bit more then Federal for hot rolled steel - around 10%
- only hot rolled steel - no grades
- similar assortment to Federal
- same selling model as Federal

Both him and Federal get steel from the states. 

If anyone wants a small piece of 2x2 solid steel bar I now have 10ft of it.

He says that Edmonton scrapyard will soon stop letting you pick stuff - for federal it was a single guy that almost killed himself.


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## EricB (Jun 10, 2016)

What scrapyard in Edmonton still lets you pick stuff? The ones near me (General Scrap and Maple Leaf) won't let that fly. Closest you get is the cut offs shed at General.

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## Tom Kitta (Jun 10, 2016)

Not sure which one - someone mentioned, I think even on this thread, that it is (or recently was) possible to pick things from a scrap yard in Edmonton. 

At least you get a cut offs shed.


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## Janger (Jun 11, 2016)

Ok I made a visit to Steel inc this morning! Here's my receipt. Good selection of hot roll. Plate and tread. A sheet of 16 ga is $73 or $46 for the satin sprayed (primer?). Some aluminium angle and flats and some sheet too he has more aluminium coming in. 22 ga steel sheet should be in this week. And ... he will order cold roll etc. Call him. He says he gets orders 3 times a week so lead time might not be too bad. I wouldn't expect 6" lengths or anything but buying 10' at a good price is fine by me. Also he can provide mill spec sheets if required. Check out his hyd-mech band saw pretty cool. Open Saturday's. My fav new store.


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## Tom Kitta (Jun 11, 2016)

he will also try to compete with federal on price of hot rolled - negotiate.


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## Dabbler (Jul 25, 2016)

I thought I'd add my experience with Encore metals.  I got two sticks of 4140 (SPS) steel from Encore Metals on Friday.  Price was okay:  $105 for 24ft of 1/2" dia  heat treated/ground stock, and $120 for 20 feet of 1" annealed stock (which will need heat treating).

they gave good service, only sell in full lengths, price was as expected.  They were happy to cut them to a specific length (+/- 1/4") for transport.

One wierdness:  for cash sales (via credit card) the don't give you a receipt or invoice.  You have to specifically ask for it.

Oh yeah:  $200 minimum (but for full lengths, it is easy to go over that)


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## Janger (Jul 25, 2016)

Dabbler said:


> I thought I'd add my experience with Encore metals.  I got two sticks of 4140 (SPS) steel from Encore Metals on Friday.  Price was okay:  $105 for 24ft of 1/2" dia  heat treated/ground stock, and $120 for 20 feet of 1" annealed stock (which will need heat treating).
> 
> they gave good service, only sell in full lengths, price was as expected.  They were happy to cut them to a specific length (+/- 1/4") for transport.
> 
> ...



I think for the 1" that's 53.4 lbs and $2.25 per pound. Is that pretty good for annealed 4140? What did you think of the prices ?


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## Dabbler (Jul 25, 2016)

I like the per-pound pricing.  

By having to purchase full lengths (20 or 24'), the costs become prohibitive over 2" in diameter.    I shared this purchase with a friend, who in turn split his 10' lengths with another acquaintance.  After all, who wants $250 on the shelf for just two sizes, when a working shop needs many more, in a bunch of materials.... (sigh)

Back in the 70s when I started  machining, there were 10 places in Calgary where you could buy 2' lengths, with a  very accessible minimum. Those were the days!


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## CalgaryPT (Aug 26, 2016)

Janger said:


> What do they have? Cold roll? Aluminium? Thinner Sheet?


I'm brand new to this forum but had to weigh in. I just paid my first visit a few hrs ago to Steel Inc. at 3260 46 AV SE. They don't have as much as Metal Supermarkets, and will only sell in 1/2 lengths (no off-cuts), but the prices are so much better. The owner (James, who came from Federal Metals) seems like a great guy. They just opened in Jan, but he said they are doing well. I like that the small guy can buy whole sheets easily...the last few sheets of 3/8 plate I bought from Varasteel were a nightmare: 3 hour lineup behind all the big loads, and the staff made me feel like I was a huge inconvenience because I wanted it loaded into a 3/4 ton truck instead of having a trailer. I only buy a few sheets a year to CNC plasma cut so I went to Steel Inc. just to check it out today. I think Metal Supermarkets is OK for off cuts and very small quantities, but I'm buying all my larger quantities of tube and rod from James in the future. Parking is a little tight, but do-able.

Yes they have cold rolled and AL sheet, as well as expanded and tread plate.


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## schor (Aug 26, 2016)

Depending on the stock you need, especially if you just need it for your metal crib, going to the metal scraper is sometimes a great way to find metal. I brought my swarf into the local guy and got $8 for it, saw a few aluminium rods, cost me $8. It was slightly less weight than the scrap I brought in.

Now I have the guy call me anytime he has someone drop in some good materials.


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## Tom Kitta (Aug 26, 2016)

Steve, which scraper is that? All the big guys in Calgary that I know of don't let you pick their stuff anymore.

Also for "construction" metal one can consider auctions -- they sell by the pallet.


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## schor (Aug 26, 2016)

I am in Ajax outside of toronto. Little guys all over, I wonder sometimes if the stuff they get is not ripped off from somewhere.


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## Tom Kitta (Aug 26, 2016)

Oh, Ontario is for sure quite better then Alberta - lots of industry all around. Used market for machinery is filled with ads. Even super expensive metal supermarkets is cheaper in Ontario.


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## Janger (Aug 26, 2016)

Tom Kitta said:


> Steve, which scraper is that? All the big guys in Calgary that I know of don't let you pick their stuff anymore.
> 
> Also for "construction" metal one can consider auctions -- they sell by the pallet.



Pallets of metal at auction? What auctions Tom? Where ? Who? Etc.


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## Tom Kitta (Aug 26, 2016)

Check out http://www.maauctions.com/ they have now like 1000 industrial items for sale including palets of weldable steel.


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## Jimbojones (Aug 27, 2016)

If anyone is looking for threaded rod in Calgary, drop me a PM.   I've gotten a supplier that can get bare metal, zinc plated, (common) acme, B7-hardness and SAE and METRIC threads.  Right-hand thread mostly; 3 to 12 foot lengths (depends on material).   Prices on the most-common sizes  e.g. 3/8, 1/2, 5/8 zinc RH  are notably cheaper that retails.


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## Janger (Aug 28, 2016)

Tom Kitta said:


> Check out http://www.maauctions.com/ they have now like 1000 industrial items for sale including palets of weldable steel.



Interesting stuff. I could fill my back yard and front yard. Lot Y313 looks useful. Thats page 3 of the building materials section. What would be typical per pound price? Anyone know? It must be more than what federal would give you per pound. (How much is that? I recall something like $0.05 per pound from Calgary metal 20 years ago. )


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## Janger (Aug 28, 2016)

Tom Kitta said:


> Check out http://www.maauctions.com/ they have now like 1000 industrial items for sale including palets of weldable steel.


They also have 30 MIG welders and 30 TIG welders, 30 steel fab tables and 30 sets of welding curtains. Who shut down? If you want a welder this is probably the deal of the year. Look at the picture in lot X314


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## kylemp (Aug 28, 2016)

Janger said:


> They also have 30 MIG welders and 30 TIG welders, 30 steel fab tables and 30 sets of welding curtains. Who shut down? If you want a welder this is probably the deal of the year. Look at the picture in lot X314


I but way too much shit at auctions, Calgary tends to be much higher for cost than edmonton but if there are large numbers of things like welders, by the end they tend to go pretty damn cheap.. Just go to the preview and make sure they aren't like 440v 3ph or something.


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## CalgaryPT (Aug 29, 2016)

kylemp said:


> I but way too much shit at auctions, Calgary tends to be much higher for cost than edmonton but if there are large numbers of things like welders, by the end they tend to go pretty damn cheap.. Just go to the preview and make sure they aren't like 440v 3ph or something.


Great point from kylemp on voltage everyone -- for those of us on restricted 220V / 100 Amp residential panels you can get burned (pun intended) if not careful. A lot of these oil-field support auctions have equipment designed for a true industrial shop. You can't run this stuff without costly utility upgrades or dimming your wife's curling iron (I think the latter is worse). Check the spec panels by viewing the auction lots or pallets yourself,  A great reminder from kylemp -- this could save $$$. Thanks.


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## Tom Kitta (Sep 1, 2016)

Today's auction has over 1100 items... so many great tables and like 50 welders. For stuff that uses a three phase motor you usually see dual voltage 220/440 - when its in 220 mode you can add VFD.


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## Janger (Sep 1, 2016)

Did you go to the auction Tom? Can you comment on prices you saw for stuff? Welders? material? and especially those four hot steamer cleaners?


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## Tom Kitta (Sep 1, 2016)

Well, I didn't go b/c I don't really have space for another machine. What I need now is a nice 6 or 8 inch vice. But I looked at the prices:

Well the s20 band saw sold for 1700 ... so with GST and fees < 2000CAD. Great deal for a 2000lbs tool that probably costs 10k new. Even if needing some love and care. The other band saw went for 2700cad - must have been in better shape.

TOA machine drill press sold for 1400... looked like in good shape. I have no need to drill lots of holes but for a 3000lbs drill press the price looks great. Good for tool collectors.

Welders went cheap!
Invertec V350 Pro for just 1100CAD... new over 7000! ... multi process!

pressure washers went for 1600cad - Magnum 400 Gold

Dynasty 350 tig went for 4500

All pallets of steel I can see went for > 1000 cad.

I should have tried for the gear head drill press - it's not in the list so maybe went for few hundred and that would have been a great deal ;(


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## kylemp (Sep 2, 2016)

I didn't realize that it was going on so once you said the name I headed up there. Most of what I saw I was unimpressed with, didn't even register..
I want a picker truck and this puppy went for 12.5k, smokin deal.. The one saw was in rough shape, the one that presumably went for more was in better condition and had been covered. The thing that really does make those 2 valuable is that they are swivels, both of them.. In my experience, that's rare. I looked at the steel and there was some I would have liked (loooooong I beam and some solid) but I don't have space or a decent method of moving them.


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## CalgaryPT (Sep 15, 2016)

kylemp said:


> I didn't realize that it was going on so once you said the name I headed up there. Most of what I saw I was unimpressed with, didn't even register..
> I want a picker truck and this puppy went for 12.5k, smokin deal.. The one saw was in rough shape, the one that presumably went for more was in better condition and had been covered. The thing that really does make those 2 valuable is that they are swivels, both of them.. In my experience, that's rare. I looked at the steel and there was some I would have liked (loooooong I beam and some solid) but I don't have space or a decent method of moving them.



Just a recent update as of Sept 14, 2016 on some steel prices:  I needed 200' of 1" x 1" angle and 80' of 1" flat steel (both 0.125 wall). Metal SuperMarkets quoted $307.40. I went to my new favourite place, Steel Inc., in Calgary and it cost me $206.22. Happy...happy.....


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## Tom Kitta (Sep 15, 2016)

If you went to Federal Metals you would have saved $40. I like the steel inc guy but his prices are not that great.


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## CalgaryPT (Sep 15, 2016)

You're right... I just checked. Thanks. I had a bad experience at Federal once...first of all the stock I needed was all rusty from being left outside in the tent (not a huge issue, but it added some prep time. I was buying something that didn't move quickly so had likely sat there a little longer than normal (and it was right after the big rains in 2005 I think), so maybe it was an unusual set of circumstances. But worse of all they wouldn't cut anything....even 20 footers to ten. I think I just got a snippy employee that day as I'd at least expect one cut so I could use a 3/4 ton truck. Luckily, I recently got a smoking deal on a Honda EU2000i generator for $200 brand new. So now I can take my Milwaukee Port-A-Band with me anywhere, cut whatever I want, and get the cheapest deal around.

Considering the bad experience happened 10 years ago I suppose I should build a bridge and get over it.


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## Alexander (Sep 15, 2016)

CalgaryPT said:


> Honda EU2000 generator for $200 brand new.


What? Those rang from $1700 for the cheap EU2000 which I bought and $3000 for the likable EU2000 that i couldn't even get my hands on locally. Best portable generator you can buy. Where did you find that deal?


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## Tom Kitta (Sep 15, 2016)

Alex, quick google check yelds under $1000USD for brand new EU2000 - so like maybe 1400CAD with shipping, maybe max 1500CAD. Wait just saw a like new unit on Amazon (open box) for just 525USD - so its like say 700CAD. Cannot be more than 900 shipped home with all charges. 

Through $200 seems like an believable deal - probably an auction. There seems to be lots of selling on auction these days - what is left of Alberta industry is literally disintegrating as I am typing this.

Back to Federal - I never had problems with the cutting things for me - but that was all done by the guy that now runs Steel Inc. He is a very nice guy. Yeah 10 year grudge seems like a long time - lets hope they didn't replace Steel Inc. guy with another bad employee.


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## Janger (Sep 15, 2016)

Hmm federal. A recent purchase there netted some box tubing which had one wall side which was thinner than nominal in the middle of the length. Could not tell until i was cutting it. Also some 90 degree angle which was more like 80 or 85 degrees. Seconds? Other box tubing was just really really greasy.


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## Tom Kitta (Sep 15, 2016)

Steel Inc. guy told me a lot of Federal stuff is seconds - or it could also be poor storage practices.


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## CalgaryPT (Sep 15, 2016)

Tom Kitta said:


> Steel Inc. guy told me a lot of Federal stuff is seconds - or it could also be poor storage practices.


I heard the same rumour about variable wall thickness from Federal. I haven't seen it first-hand...just feeding the rumour mill.

Back to the EU2000i...I never score great finds like this...but (you guys will love this)...it was an garage/"estate" sale in Bearspaw (off 12 Mile Coulee Road in Calgary NW) where the guy was downsizing . After poking around for a bit I spied the thing in its original box and plastic wrap. I asked him if it was for sale in front of his wife, and she went off in a huff. So I knew I hit a nerve and there was a story there. Turns out their son bought it for them a year or so earlier, but it had a "rattle" in it. His wife was concerned it was defective and would EXPLODE if fired up. No idea why he didn't take it in to get checked. Anyways, it did have a pronounced rattle to it. He had obviously had it with the whole "spousal discussion" on the matter and said: "200 bucks and it's yours...no guarantee!" So I took it. Half and hour and a few bolts later I found the screen on the flame arrestor in the exhaust manifold had just come out (probably just a QA/QC issue). I went into Adventure Honda to buy a new one and the service counter guy said, "this has never been used," so he just replaced it free.

Best deal I ever got. Later I remembered that I _think_ I saw a new cover and hour/rpm meter for it in his garage as well. I should have gone back for that, but I was already feeling like the cops were going to arrest me for the deal as is and I should join a witness protection program and just stop being so greedy.

I love those EU2000's...quiet and powerful.


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## Alexander (Sep 15, 2016)

Tom Kitta said:


> Alex, quick google check yelds under $1000USD for brand new EU2000


Probably true, but for some things I would rather buy from an authorized dealer. When i got my new Syil CNC turning center I could have ordered the thing on Aliexpress direct from china and saved a bunch. Probably also could have picked something up in the USA and brought it back across the border. But both Adventure Honda and Modern tool said i can try before i buy so i went with them.


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## Tom Kitta (Sep 15, 2016)

Amazon.com seller is Honda direct so even better than any dealer. Also Amazon.ca and Amazon.com have bullet proof policy on merchendise - nothing compared to aliexpress. I still buy electronics stuff from China through aliexpress - frequently reviews are good enough.


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## Jwest7788 (Sep 16, 2016)

Tom Kitta said:


> Amazon.com seller is Honda direct so even better than any dealer. Also Amazon.ca and Amazon.com have bullet proof policy on merchendise - nothing compared to aliexpress. I still buy electronics stuff from China through aliexpress - frequently reviews are good enough.


This is the truth, I've had to return products to amazon.ca, it's a fantastic process. Two clicks online, print a piece of paper and tape it to the box, next day UPS picked it up, and the cash was already back in my account (before pickup even)

My friend just had an issue with a motorcycle helmet camera + communicator ($600!) after, get this, 8 months since he bought it. Asked Amazon and the same thing happened for him, print a page, sent back for a full refund.

Amazon really has buyers in mind, not so much the sellers, it appears.

JW


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## Tom Kitta (Sep 16, 2016)

Even better - for small $20 item I said defective they just told me to keep it and refunded me money.


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## Tom Kitta (Oct 17, 2016)

I just acquired large amount of round rod steel - mostly 4130 / 4145 alloy steel. I can sell some of it to anyone that wants it for few times less then what metal supermarket charges for 1018. Sizes go all they way to 10 inches round. I need to get a new band saw to cut it. Let me know what you need. There is a big step in steel quality to 4130/4145 from the usual "scrap" I am used to.


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## PeterT (Oct 17, 2016)

Hi Tom. I don't have any experience turning 4130, but just wondering if you have 1.5-2" dia?
"Up to 10" round"... those must be some hefty paperweights you acquired! I kind of had my heart set on using cast iron to make some tooling & plates for my rotary table. CI round slabs are cheap in the states but that doesn't do me any good until shipped here. Could something like 6" dia be slabbed off into ~3/4" thickness, or is that what you mean by needing a new saw? I've had so-so experience machining bigger plates from cold drawn, sometimes they like to unload & warp a bit, mind you that was bar, not round.


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## Tom Kitta (Oct 17, 2016)

There are some smaller stuff coming in tomorrow and I may have some 2''. I have to see whatever my little saw can manage a 6''. I have lots of the 6.25 inch stuff. I let you know tomorrow. I only turned it once. It leaves a nice shiny finish. In a chuck I didn't damage the surface when I chucked it in - definitely step up in hardness from "scrap". Didn't have issues drilling with quality drill bit. Cheap Chinese inserts died quickly. Premium US inserts seem to last through - I cut off few pounds on a single edge and its still good.


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## Janger (Oct 17, 2016)

10"! Pizzas! Logs! You'll need a crane. We need a photo...

10" bar stock, 340 pounds per linear foot.


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## Tom Kitta (Oct 17, 2016)

Well, the 9.5 inch 4 ft log is nice. Its not that heavy once you get it to roll. No idea how am I going to get it onto a saw to cut a slice. First is getting at least 9 x 16 saw to actually have something to cut this thing with. 

Right now there are many logs in a pile in my back yard. I simply got angry about not having ability to get any steel and got a bit overboard with what I got. 

I also got small piece of aluminium and stainless.


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## kylemp (Oct 19, 2016)

I'd be into some of the round you have Tom. Any chance you have a list?


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## Tom Kitta (Oct 19, 2016)

I work on a list over the weekend. I have few small 3'' pieces, more 4'' pieces of say 10 inch length and then even more 5''. Most I have is of 6.25'' pieces. I also have some pipe as well as stainless. Just one large piece of aluminium.


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## Dabbler (Oct 19, 2016)

I'd really like some as well.  How about I come over with a bucket of cash?


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## Jwest7788 (Oct 20, 2016)

I'm still holding my breath for a photo of all this steel! 10" is a pretty big round, haha.


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## Tom Kitta (Oct 20, 2016)

I take one on the weekend - I am usually home after dark. Dabbler can also take on when he comes by with a bucket of cash to remove some of it.


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## Dabbler (Oct 22, 2016)

Just got home from Tom's.   He has quite a pile of round stock sitting there.  All of it is 4" or larger in diameter, some of it heavy wall tubing.  I picked up a few shorter 4" pieces for future use (I don't have a need for it at the moment).   I met his dad, too we must have talked about machining and stuff for an hour.  Thanks again, Tom!


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## Dogpounder (Oct 24, 2016)

Tom do you have any 3" .250 square tubing?


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## Tom Kitta (Oct 24, 2016)

I may have 3 inch rounds tubing but I don't have anything square.


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## Dogpounder (Oct 24, 2016)

Great thanks for looking


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## Dabbler (Nov 10, 2016)

Was just over at Steel Inc to get some Square tubing to liberate my mill from 'pallet madness'.  He as usual filled the order very quickly, enthusiastically and economically.

He wanted me to pass on a big thanks for the positive reviews and the business he has had  from our group.


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## Tom Kitta (Nov 10, 2016)

I know someone wanted some cast iron pieces but I am not sure who. I have two, both over 1ft long. One is 4.5 inch round the other is 5.5 inch round. Let me know if you are interested.


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## Dabbler (Nov 10, 2016)

I PM'd you about cast iron.  I can take the longer of the 2, or a short piece if someone else needs the long one. I was also interested  in a piece of the thing that had a 2" hole in the center, 4140, about 8" in diameter, I think.  I can come over again and look if you'd like


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## Johnwa (Nov 11, 2016)

I picked up several pounds of yellow brass strips at auction.  They are about 7/8" wide, up to 1/8" thick and up to 24" long.
I have more than I need so am willing to sell the rest at $2/lb.


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## alman (Nov 30, 2016)

Hi All
its seems that Steel Inc. is raising their prices to Metal Supermarket levels, , ,


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## kylemp (Nov 30, 2016)

alman said:


> Hi All
> its seems that Steel Inc. is raising their prices to Metal Supermarket levels, , ,


Good luck. Just one more place not to buy steel.


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## Tom Kitta (Nov 30, 2016)

Well, their problem - federal was always cheaper anyways. Besides I seem to have plenty of steel stored for milling and welding its federal.

Wait till steel inc goes under and buy at 10% of the price.


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## Janger (Nov 30, 2016)

I have a friend  who seemed to think the guy was trying to sell. He's got a $20K bandsaw and two forklifts, Calgary rent. Payments must be high. Sigh


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## Tom Kitta (Nov 30, 2016)

Rents are still high in industrial areas - coming down. I was told by a compressor company owner whom reduced  from 5 to 3 buildings that he is now paying $6 per square foot. I saw cheaper rates but even $2000 for say 1000 ft bay a month seems a lot of money in addition to other expenses.

The 20K could be a good buy. It looked new few months ago. Not sure why he has two forklifts - he can probably offload these at an auction.


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## Deni822 (Dec 5, 2016)

alman said:


> Hi All
> its seems that Steel Inc. is raising their prices to Metal Supermarket levels, , ,



New guy here, first post.  Great forum.  

Wanted to find another supplier to Federal that was open on a Saturday and went to see James on the weekend after reading about him on here.  Yup, the prices are 30-60% higher than Federal.  I didn't realize 'til I got home and went through the invoice in detail.  My fault, I should have checked before I picked it up but was fed up with not having stock to work on.  He has a long piece of flatbar that he uses as a prop to show that Federal sells kickouts and his stock is better and warrants the "slighly" higher price.  Probably last time I go to him.


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## Jwest7788 (Dec 7, 2016)

Just so everyone knows, James made an account and basically lamb-basted us as a group which is unfortunate. His point were all extremely valid, so having him discuss it openly with the group would have brought a lot of respect, but instead the text was pretty inflammatory, and generally not productive, so I'm not going to post it verbatim, but I feel his points should be heard none-the-less.

His points were all really spot on:

Federal has been around for 60 years, so it makes sense that they have a larger scale of ordering and infrastructure to facilitate lower pricing. We all agree that the quality of their steel isn't the greatest in alot of cases too, and price isn't everything, We had in the past praised Steel Inc. for free cuts and good service, none of which has changed, but he was quickly thrown to the wolves based on pricing, with no regard to those positives (my choice of words).
He has two forklifts in case one breaks.
He's not looking to sell his business, it's alive and well.
His overhead recently changed, distributors increase their pricing as the mills raise their price.
@Tom Kitta 's comment about him going under and $.10 on the dollar was uncalled for.

The rest of it was not super productive, some of it just plain old insults being tossed around about "working out of garden sheds", etc.
---> Note: Hobbyists unite! Work where you can when you can, that's the spirit of a hobby! If all I had were a shed, god knows I would be turning steel there!

Finally, he asked his account be deleted, so it has been.

Anyways, take away guys, please keep in mind that James isn't some evil dude trying to squeeze every penny out of us or anything like that, he's just doing what he feels is right for his business, as any prudent business owner should.
We can shop where we want to, or not where we don't, but either way, lets try to keep it civil.


Finally, I'm posting all of this for transparency, as I want us to be a community, but please do not let this thread get too messy or it'll have to get locked, and that's not good for anyone!

JW


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## Tom Kitta (Dec 7, 2016)

Agreed that gossiping about future of James'es business is counter productive for the forum. On the other hand pointing out a place is no longer - for many of us - a good source of metal is as per forum topic. I don't see anyone pointing out any negatives about James himself - he always was super nice as a person to me - maybe I missed a post somewhere. Both myself and others have criticised his business and decisions related to such business that effect us - his customers.


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## Deni822 (Dec 7, 2016)

I didn't have any problems with James, he was great, friendly and hard working trying to hustle getting stuff out the door.  You can see he really cares about his business.  I was just surprised how much more my bill was than I was expecting. Like I said, it was my fault for not checking first. He sets the prices so he can make a living but we're all spending our hard earned money and watching our bottom line, especially in these tough times. That is why I shared my experience, which was purely based on price, not service which was great. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jwest7788 (Dec 7, 2016)

I agree completely. And don't get me wrong. I'm fairly agnostic about the whole situation. I haven't had the chance to even checkout steel inc. as of yet, so don't think I'm picking sides or anything. Haha


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dabbler (Dec 7, 2016)

I've been troubled about the turn of this thread.  I didn't jump to James' defense because I wasn't there and didn't know what you bought.

Recently I bought several whole sticks of 4X4 tubing from him - at 20%  less than the going rate at Varsteel and similar.  I don't shop at Federal, because several times I was offered bent product, with no option to take a straight one.  After the 2nd time, I refuse to go back.

If James was offering things at the same price - I would still go to him.  1) he cut it into 6 foot chunks to fit into my box for no charge.  2) He had it available instantly without hassle.  3) He is a nice person   4) potential long term competitor, which may help to foster some pricing reality. 5) he helped me load it onto my truck on a very busy day.   

To me these issues weigh very heavily.  Price is important, but my experience has always been positive.


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## Tom Kitta (Dec 7, 2016)

I suggest we go back to the original purpose of the thread. Sources for steel in Calgary. For mild weldable steel in small quantities we have, as far as I know:
- Federal
- Steel Inc.
- Metal Supermarket
- retailers such as Princess Auto

For alloy steel in small quantity:
- metal supermarket
- online shipping from the US
- I have some round stock

For larger quantities, usually over $500 per order there are multiple sources - however, most as far as I know deal with mild weldable steel not with alloy steel and not in larger sizes used by a milling machine or a larger lathe.

In short, we don't have much choice for use on a milling machine or a lathe. Some of us have friends they can buy stuff of but there is no established business that will sell at reasonable prices alloy or even mild still stock in smaller quantities to be used in hobby machining.

Did any of the above change recently? Say I need 2'' by 4'' by 2 feet bar of alloy steel - anyone know another source to the above?


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## Janger (Dec 8, 2016)

@kylemp I think you probably have some ideas on sourcing ... any feedback? 

Is it time to organize club purchases?


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## Dabbler (Dec 8, 2016)

What I would like is a chart that was 'sticky' with the current supplier situation.  I would be happy to moderate the chart, and we could do 'likes/dislikes' count for REGISTERED members. (we would have to allow people to change their vote, if 'bad things happen', or situations change)  Even if it were a downloadable spreadsheet, it would be better than paging through a forum for an email address or supplier name.  (I can't remember names very well)

If we were to do some club purchases, I would be game at reasonable prices per pound  (even though I have a lot of material right now)


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## Tom Kitta (Dec 8, 2016)

Dabbler said:


> What I would like is a chart that was 'sticky' with the current supplier situation.



Excellent idea!


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## Janger (Dec 8, 2016)

Ok other suppliers. Encore, Wilkinson steel, Allied. Varsteel. Samuel.

Quoting my first post on this from two 1/2 years ago:
Samuel specialty metals. They have aluminium and stainless. Example Price was $50 for angle 1.5x1.5" x1/4 thick by 20' long aluminium angle. $125 minimum charge so you would have to buy three pieces for $150 in that example. I don't think they do cutting to buy less, but they probably would cut so you can get it home. Group purchase anyone? To compare angle 1x1x 1/8 thick by 6 feet long at home depot is probably $30. Their sister company is wilkinson steel but I didn't call them. Open M-F 9-3!
​


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## Jwest7788 (Dec 8, 2016)

Hey Team,

Can you see:
http://canadianhobbymetalworkers.com/forums/sourcing-metal-stock.34/

I've added a new setup to better facilitate discussion around each individual metal supplier, and keep it all in one spot. While it's not a chart (I'm not sure how to set that up, while restricting editing access to members only, but am open to discussion.) But hope this is one step closer to where we need to go.

How do you guys propose to manage a single chart page, which I agree would be best. Any thoughts? 
--> I'll do some digging for components to add to the forum to manage this better than the existing forum functionality.

In the mean-time, we can start gathering relevant data into dedicated threads as shown in the above example link. Then when we have a chart system figured out, can simply copy the info over. Thoughts?

JW


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## Johnwa (Dec 8, 2016)

Janger said:


> Ok other suppliers. Encore, Wilkinson steel, Allied. Varsteel. Samuel.
> 
> Quoting my first post on this from two 1/2 years ago:
> Samuel specialty metals. They have aluminium and stainless. Example Price was $50 for angle 1.5x1.5" x1/4 thick by 20' long aluminium angle. $125 minimum charge so you would have to buy three pieces for $150 in that example. I don't think they do cutting to buy less, but they probably would cut so you can get it home. Group purchase anyone? To compare angle 1x1x 1/8 thick by 6 feet long at home depot is probably $30. Their sister company is wilkinson steel but I didn't call them. Open M-F 9-3!
> ​


Protospace did a group buy from Samuels.  Samuels would not cut it for them.  IIRC they were allowed to plug a cutoff saw into an exterior outlet tho.


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## Jwest7788 (Dec 8, 2016)

re: Group buy,

What does everyone have in mind?

Like 1" Round stock? Angle? Aluminum, Steel?

I dont mind coordinating, but not sure what the group buy would be for.


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## Dabbler (Dec 8, 2016)

I have enough right now but getting new 7075 T5 or T6, 6061 or 2024 aluminum has been hard.
I'd love to get some 4140 in 3X3, 4X4 and 6X2 square sizes, but would only buy a meter each.
I'd be up for some pre-heat treated exotic stainless as well (there are a lot to choose from, all equal in my mind.


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## PeterT (Dec 8, 2016)

Dabbler, Aircraft Spruce has 6061 & 2024 in progressive diameters & reasonable stick lengths. No 7075 & nothing like the steel you're after though.
http://www.aircraftspruce.ca/menus/me/aluminum.html


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## Dabbler (Dec 8, 2016)

thanks!


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## kylemp (Dec 8, 2016)

Johnwa said:


> Protospace did a group buy from Samuels.  Samuels would not cut it for them.  IIRC they were allowed to plug a cutoff saw into an exterior outlet tho.


I just bought 1 x 4 x 12' 6061. No crops, no cuts and they won't let you cut it there.


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## Janger (Dec 8, 2016)

55.3lbs How's much was that Kyle @kylemp ? Must be over the $125 minimum so $150ish?
You like Samuels?


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## kylemp (Dec 8, 2016)

It was.. 14/foot plus tax. Not bad price.


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## Janger (Dec 8, 2016)

Janger said:


> 55.3lbs How's much was that Kyle @kylemp ? Must be over the $125 minimum so $150ish?
> You like Samuels?



http://www.twmetals.com/catalog.htm...:2:Extruded;thickness:2:1.0;dimension_2:2:4.0

Similar on a USA web site. $132USD for 1x4x8' only


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## kylemp (Dec 8, 2016)

I think that was the price at least. For the amount of material I thought it was a decent price. The pain in the ass part is that they don't cut it and you can't cut it on their property.


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## Mphenley (Dec 30, 2016)

Been a while since I chipped in on anything (or logged in, for that matter), but I had a bad experience at federal metals turn into a good experience because of russell metals and another place called metalworks. 6 months ago I was looking for some 0.250 thick 3x3 angle iron, 0.125 2x3 rectangle box, and 0.125 1.5x1.5 angle so I could make a t-square fence for my table saw. Federal had decent prices, no minimum that I recall (other than needing at least one a set length, probably 20') but when I asked where I could setup a couple portable sawhorses so I could cut my pieces to fit in my own car, they wouldn't let me. Since I wasn't about to haul some long angle irons out to the road to cut (and risk being run over), I went drove around a bit in the area, and then called Russell Metals. 

While the lady was SUPER helpful, she did mention the $200 minimum (or something along those lines, maybe it was $300?), but also said they couldn't do shorter lengths, at least that day. However, as I was about hang up, she told me to check a place in the highfield industrial area (11th and 46th ave, near blackfoot and glenmore) called Metalworks Canada. After driving over there, I got probably the best customer service I've had with the small metal suppliers. I had to wait a week or so for the rectangle box to come in, but the guy said he was trying to get a bit more stock handy for hobby orders. Price was significantly less than metal supermarket (not hard, obviously), but they would cut to any length, and assist with loading. When I came to pick up the order later, the staff drove the stock right to the back of my car on the forklift, and helped me lift the heavy pieces in.

While chatting with the order desk, he said they're trying to get into the smaller order market, and some of their employees used to work at metal supermarket, and didn't like the MO there. Normally they deal with metal gutters and roofing and what not, so they don't show up on a search of metal stock suppliers, but I definitely wanted to toot their horn a bit. They said they could order anything that's readily available, even somewhat strange sizes or alloys, etc.. and they sell by the foot or by the full length, whatever's easiest for you.

That's probably enough from me, hope everyone had a good holiday season!


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## Janger (Dec 31, 2016)

@Dogpounder also had a good exp there. Somebody else too maybe. How were the prices @mphenly Matt? Care to share your bill with us?
I've notice the prices at metal supermarket seem to go way up the by the pound the less you need. Is it similar? 

metalworkscanada.com
1115 48 Ave SE
Calgary AB T2G 2A7
Canada


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## Murdoch (Jan 6, 2017)

Hi guys I'm looking for perforated titanium sheet. Not to be confused with wire mesh. I don't need a lot,  maybe 2'×2' thanks in advance...GMurdoch


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## Chris Cramer (Feb 5, 2017)

Hi, correct me if I'm wrong, but by what has been posted here so far it looks like Federal Metals, and Samuel Specialty Metals would be the best place to buy some stainless steel. I am looking for a sheet of 10 - 14 gauge stainless steel, as well as a 1/4" x 2 1/2" stainless steel flat bar. The last time I stopped by metal supermarket the prices were too high, so comparing prices between Samuel, and Federal which of the two would be the best option?


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## Deni822 (Feb 5, 2017)

Federal doesn't sell stainless as far as I know so Samuels is your best bet and I've had a good experience with them.


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## Chris Cramer (Feb 5, 2017)

I have also just noticed a few other distributors such as Ryerson, and Russel metals. Would they be any better than metal supermarket, or even Samuel?


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## Alexander (Feb 5, 2017)

My experience is that Federal Metals is a great spot for a hobbyist to pick up hot rolled steel I would rate them as 9 out of 10 as a supplier and as a scrap yard. Varsteel is a great place to go if you need some big stuff. They have a huge selection and great prices but the yard is busy and it may take them 2 hours to load your truck so i give them 7 out of 10. I don't know much about Samuel specialty metals but I have picked up 4 loads of aluminum from them and they seem great. I don't mind picking up 12 foot lengths but i know that is a problem for most people. I will give them a 9.5 out of 10 for having rock bottom prices and loading my truck up fast. I could easly rate Samuel a perfect 10 if they were willing to cut there full lengths into ease to transport 6 foot lengths. Just my opinions while i am rating places i want to give metal supermarkets a 2 out of 10. the staff are friendly and continue to smile while they take your money. That is the nicest thing i can say about them right now.


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## Murdoch (Feb 5, 2017)

http://www.mrmetal.ca/
Just found this place, calling tomorrow for Ti.
Any


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## Chris Cramer (Apr 2, 2017)

Does Recon still allow you to pick scrap from their yard, or do they only recycle the metal you bring them?


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## Janger (Apr 2, 2017)

Chris Cramer said:


> Does Recon still allow you to pick scrap from their yard, or do they only recycle the metal you bring them?



It seems nobody lets you pick anymore. Recon said no when I was there recently and they were not interested in selling me anything. There is another place right off Deerfoot that used to be called Navajo metals . Now it's something that starts with a E. their sign says they sell metal. 12st and 60ave SE. anybody been there?


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## CalgaryPT (Dec 3, 2017)

What about I-Beam? I am starting to source for my gantry crane I will be building next year. I found some great plans online and a design I really like.  Will need 20 feet of S-6 x 12.5. 

I think Varsteel has it, but they aren't very user friendly to the little guy.


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## Janger (Dec 3, 2017)

I beam... there were some ads on kijiji... @kevin.decelles mentioned a place he goes that sells to him in fairly big minimums but has everything... Kevin? how are you going to move a beam like that Peter? You need a crane for the crane?


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## CalgaryPT (Dec 3, 2017)

Janger said:


> I beam... there were some ads on kijiji... @kevin.decelles mentioned a place he goes that sells to him in fairly big minimums but has everything... Kevin? how are you going to move a beam like that Peter? You need a crane for the crane?



FYI to Members: when I complete the gantry crane build in 2018, I envision a KILLER deal on my PA engine hoist (w/ air over hydraulic upgrade), which I won't need anymore. _So sweet a deal I'm getting a cavity just thinking about it...._


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## kevin.decelles (Dec 3, 2017)

I placed my last two orders at surreway metal, just off glenmore by heather glen golf

Minimum was 400, but it is easy to do that.  Very professional sales, pickup was drive through and crane loaded onto trailer

They have some stock they only cut to 20' but some they'll do at 10 or 16

I bought 3/8 plate (4x8 sheet) 1x2x1 bar stock, 4x4 square.....

Did it All via email , scheduled a pickup time and done.  They like a few days notice


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## CalgaryPT (Dec 3, 2017)

kevin.decelles said:


> I placed my last two orders at surreway metal, just off glenmore by heather glen golf
> 
> Minimum was 400, but it is easy to do that.  Very professional sales, pickup was drive through and crane loaded onto trailer
> 
> ...


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## CalgaryPT (Dec 3, 2017)

Thanks so much Kevin.  I'll look into them tomorrow or this week. I know I am into it for 4 small ones at least.

My experience at Varsteel the last few times wasn't pleasant.  Probably my fault. I showed up just when the big boys with their 18 wheelers were loading. They wouldn't let me get out of my 3/4 ton w/o a a hard hat or flashing amber light.  OK, I get that now and admire it. In fact, I am impressed by these higher safety standards. I like that fact that the you are not allowed on site w/o PPE and flashing ambers for your truck. But it would have been nice if they told me before I entered the yard, or posted on their site. I was trapped for 1 hour between trucks. I called ahead for protocol, but must have got Bubba @CustomerService.

I found Varsteel staff were abrasive and cared little for the small guy. I disliked that I had to pull off road after loading to inspect what I paid $350 for before I knew I got my money's worth. The crane operator didn't understand that the distance between wheel wells on a pickup is designed for 4 x 8 sheets. A big panic ensued and they brought out a waiver I had to sign prior to loading.

P.S. I now wear a reflective vest, always have PPE, and have an amber light on dash for movement in any yard. Lesson learned. My bad. BTW I was at the Wolseley yard a few months ago in SE Calgary and the warehouse staff were very informative: if you go in the yard you need a vest, and a lid if w/i 5M of overhead, and flashing light is preferred. Best of all staff were nice, so I go back regularly.


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## kevin.decelles (Dec 3, 2017)

Wow , quite the experience.   I felt like a small fish in a big po d at sureway too, but only because of the scale of their operations .  I wasn't asked for ppe, but probably should have had it.  The guys let me help place dunnage under the load etc.  

I'll probably end up with an order in the spring.  Let me know how much they quote u for ibeam




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## DPittman (Dec 4, 2017)

Good lord that trip to Varsteel sounded like major P.I.T.A.  Its been a while since I've been to Varsteel Lethbridge but it sure wasn't like that then.  Things have probably changed there too.

Where should a fellow look for 1-2" round brass bar?

Don


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## Janger (Dec 4, 2017)

DPittman said:


> Good lord that trip to Varsteel sounded like major P.I.T.A.  Its been a while since I've been to Varsteel Lethbridge but it sure wasn't like that then.  Things have probably changed there too.
> 
> Where should a fellow look for 1-2" round brass bar?
> 
> Don


I need some 1 inch for my lathe steady...
Metal supermarket... omg. Don if you find a source for some 1 inch I’d be interested in splitting some with you.


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## DPittman (Dec 4, 2017)

Janger said:


> I need some 1 inch for my lathe steady...
> Metal supermarket... omg. Don if you find a source for some 1 inch I’d be interested in splitting some with you.



Ok I will keep you posted if I find any.  I'm hoping to find some just to have on hand for some "someday steam engine projects".  I would like to buy a foot of  1/2" , 1" and 2" rod but am afraid the price of it may scare me off. I'm thinking metal supermarket sort of dealers are not even a consideration for me.

Don


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## Johnwa (Dec 4, 2017)

I bought a piece of brass from metalsupermarket a couple of years ago.  It was pricy but was in line with the online suppliers that I checked.

You could try Samuel Specialty metals.  They do have minimums though.


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## DPittman (Dec 4, 2017)

I just tried Samuel Speciality Metals and he told me they don't handle brass anymore. He suggested Metal super market or maybe have to buy full length (12ft) of the stuff. Ouch either way.
Don


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## PeterT (Dec 4, 2017)

I haven't heard of or dealt with Samuel before. The aluminum selection caught my eye. How are they to deal with for us non-industrial types price? ie minimum orders, cutting fee etc.?

Brass is getting spendy regardless of source. Typically I wait for the %discount sales & use OLM for sticks of specialized stuff. They discount the UPS ground fee to Canada but I seem to average 40$ for a box-o-metal depending on weight etc. Strangely, that can sometimes work out cheaper that the local 'market' depending on the item.
http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=1270&step=4&showunits=inches&id=1117&top_cat=79


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## DPittman (Dec 4, 2017)

PeterT said:


> I haven't heard of or dealt with Samuel before. The aluminum selection caught my eye. How are they to deal with for us non-industrial types price? ie minimum orders, cutting fee etc.?
> 
> Brass is getting spendy regardless of source. Typically I wait for the %discount sales & use OLM for sticks of specialized stuff. They discount the UPS ground fee to Canada but I seem to average 40$ for a box-o-metal depending on weight etc. Strangely, that can sometimes work out cheaper that the local 'market' depending on the item.
> http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=1270&step=4&showunits=inches&id=1117&top_cat=79



I have never dealt with them either but the fellow I talked to on the phone was pleasant and tried to be helpful with suggestions.  I have a feeling they would be good to deal with.  

Don


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## Dabbler (Dec 4, 2017)

Peter - wow. The last time I went to Varsteel the yard was empty.  The foreman and crane operator were great, and they loaded my tubing  right on my roof rack and let me tie down right there.  Things have changed in 5 years!


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## Johnwa (Dec 4, 2017)

I went to Samuels once to price out some aluminum.  I believe they want to sell in 20’ lengths and their minimum was $120.  They’re definitely willing to sell a piece at a time though.
 I ended up getting in on a protospace group buy from them.  10’ x 3”x 1/2” for $60.


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## Janger (Dec 4, 2017)

That seems cheap John. Federal wants $40 for that much hot roll. Thats 17.85 lbs of aluminum and $3.36 / lb. I think Steel Inc is more like $5-6/lb. no min though...


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## Johnwa (Dec 4, 2017)

I checked my archives and it was even better.  $4.25/ft.  That was 2 years ago, I don’t know if there was a volume discount,


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## Joshua Abbott (Jan 30, 2018)

Hey guys, I'm new to the forum. I've been looking for decently priced aluminium rectangular bar stock. I've ordered from metal supermarkets and online metals in the past, and while their metal is fine of course, it is pricey. The shipping and handling hits me pretty hard as well since I'm in cold lake. John- I'm going to check out Samuels for sure if they have a volume discount. I have found an unlikely supplier that may end up alot cheaper than the "small quantity consumer" companies though. I gave Sculpture Supply Canada a call today, and it seems that they have what looks like 3"x3.75" aluminium bar stock 30" long (the alloy is A356). They're selling it as an "ingot" by the pound. Approximate weight is 35 Lbs and they quoted me $2.25/lb over the phone. With UPS standard shipping being $100.00 for that weight and dimension, total cost should come out to about $180.00 before taxes. An approximately equivalent sized bar of 6061 of the same weight from metal supermarkets costs about $315.oo with shipping and before taxes. I'm not sure how good A356 alloy is. Comparing the material properties data sheets it looks like has lower tensile strength than 6061, but I'm not sure how much that matters for most applications.


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## kylemp (Jan 30, 2018)

Joshua Abbott said:


> Hey guys, I'm new to the forum. I've been looking for decently priced aluminium rectangular bar stock. I've ordered from metal supermarkets and online metals in the past, and while their metal is fine of course, it is pricey. The shipping and handling hits me pretty hard as well since I'm in cold lake. John- I'm going to check out Samuels for sure if they have a volume discount. I have found an unlikely supplier that may end up alot cheaper than the "small quantity consumer" companies though. I gave Sculpture Supply Canada a call today, and it seems that they have what looks like 3"x3.75" aluminium bar stock 30" long (the alloy is A356). They're selling it as an "ingot" by the pound. Approximate weight is 35 Lbs and they quoted me $2.25/lb over the phone. With UPS standard shipping being $100.00 for that weight and dimension, total cost should come out to about $180.00 before taxes. An approximately equivalent sized bar of 6061 of the same weight from metal supermarkets costs about $315.oo with shipping and before taxes. I'm not sure how good A356 alloy is. Comparing the material properties data sheets it looks like has lower tensile strength than 6061, but I'm not sure how much that matters for most applications.


Probably doesn't matter much unless you're doing something pretty specific.
I'd try samuels which will only sell full bars and not cut them then steel inc.


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## PeterT (Jan 30, 2018)

Interesting. I knew it was used in casting & generally less common, but the properties aren't that much different than 6061. Just check machining properties depending on what you are doing, some grades of aluminum can be gummy on cutting tools & particularly threading. the casting folks may not care about that much.
https://www.makeitfrom.com/compare/356.0-T6-Cast-Aluminum/6061-T6-Aluminum

But the price sounds off (to your advantage). I didn't check extensively but it seems to approximate 6061 on $/pound. One example, 39 USD for 13.5 pounds
http://www.budgetcastingsupply.com/product-p/9100-013-7.htm

Re 6061, I order form these guys on occasion. Just as price reference 3x4" goes for 73 $/ft
http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=17683&step=4&showunits=inches&id=997&top_cat=60


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## Janger (Jan 30, 2018)

Try steel inc. for aluminium.


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## PeterT (Jan 30, 2018)

What intrigues me is A356 seems to be Googling as 'cast aluminum'. Now that's of interest because typical cast aluminum like MIC-6 is friggen expensive, but makes very nice tooling plates & non-distorting molds which is its primary industry purpose.


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## CalgaryPT (Feb 26, 2018)

Bit of an update on sheet as of 2018 Feb 26.

Just bought a 4x8 sheet of 16 gauge (uncoated) hot roll steel from James at Steel Inc. for $82.50. Then I headed to Metal Supermarkets for some smaller stuff. Out of curiosity I asked for _their_ price: I knew it would be more, but the same sheet there was $161   !!!!!  WHAT??????????????????????????????? I felt an southernly muscle pucker up when they told me. 

It reminded me of the $12 sandwiches at the airport. Has Canada Revenue created unique a economic zone at Metal SuperMarkets that I am unaware of? 

 James gets my business


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## Tom Kitta (Feb 26, 2018)

You overpaid - http://www.federalmetals.ca/we-sell/plate 
$67.5


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## Janger (Feb 26, 2018)

Federal can be less BUT James has nice clean rust free plate stored indoors. He also has various gauges and even a grade primed and ready for paint. 

I didn’t know federal carries thinner gauge material. Last time I asked I thought it was 1/8 minimum. Anybody seen the stuff at federal? What does it look like?


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## CalgaryPT (Feb 26, 2018)

I'm sure you are right Tom...I usually do.. Last time I was at Federal they told me their online prices were out of date and charged me more. "Last time" was exactly how I recall the experience, because I haven't been back since.

Worse yet, there was so much rust on the sheet it took me hours to sand so I didn't get charged extra at powder coat. A total waste of time for me.

John, when I was at Steel Inc  today he had some 20 and 24 gauge. Hopefully even more selection when he moves.

(Plus, I got to play with his new dog  )


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## Johnwa (Feb 26, 2018)

I was there last Friday, it was worth the trip to play with the little pup!


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## CalgaryPT (Feb 26, 2018)

Ha ha ha. That's what a thought too John. But he's probably doubled in size since then. Imagine almost 60 lbs @ 12 weeks. I took a pic of him and sent to my wife with the caption 'Think we have our hands full?"

Clearly a soon to be shop-dog!


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## Alexander (Feb 26, 2018)

I bought 2 sheets of 16 gauge at federal metals. It was rust free and straight. The price Tom quoted is correct.


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## CalgaryPT (Feb 26, 2018)

Alexander said:


> I bought 2 sheets of 16 gauge at federal metals. It was rust free and straight. The price Tom quoted is correct.


I'll go shopping with you guys next time


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## Jwest7788 (Mar 1, 2018)

Last I was at federal everything had a bit of surface rust, but I admittedly cannot recall about the status of their sheet or plate stock.


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## Dieselbenz1 (Mar 27, 2018)

I purchase lots of auto parts and send them to kinek in Babb. They are very reasonable they will recieve your package on average I pay $5 US per item with free storage for 30 days. I ship from most parts of the US by USPS and when in a rush pay the extra $5 for 2 to 3 day with tracking. I can get parts a week faster than having them ship to my door not to mention my sayings. I was just there yesterday. Kinek has a Web site and have excellent customer service.


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## Tom Kitta (Mar 27, 2018)

There is another service centre for parcels in Sweet Grass MT. They charge $5 per parcel and can hold for free up to 90 days. It is more for heavy or large items. They can even receive LTL shipments through they cost way more than $5. This makes sense if you are actually purchasing a lot of things in the US and don't mind the drive. Or if we got a drive group together and every month or so someone else drove to the border. Note that if you go back to Canada you pay GST on the package contents and the shipping costs (not your stuff or returning same day).


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## PeterT (Mar 27, 2018)

I see lots of these 'holding' places in Montana. But then how are you getting transportation from there to your home in Calgary? Isnt it back to a trucking service & clearing customs etc? For bigger shipments or group buy, it would be worth the round trip in your own vehicle. But I cant see the cost benefit for smaller items, 7-8 hours round trip, tank of gas...

BTW, I'm giving DYK a try on a transaction as we speak. Somewhat similar - you use their Montana address as destination shipping but they pickup daily to Calgary (for a sliding scale fee). So not 1-shot delivery to your door, pickup is from their place in NE Calgary. I'll let you know how it pans out. Anyway, they are in the process of switching to another drop location, similar kind of holding cost structure.
https://www.montanamailbox.com/


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## Tom Kitta (Mar 27, 2018)

OK, let me know how does the DYK work out & their pricing structure.

Yes, you need to buy a lot of stuff over few months to make it worth a whole day and a tank of gas. Or you can make a vacations out of it - go for the weekend and save GST.


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## Janger (Mar 27, 2018)

PeterT said:


> I see lots of these 'holding' places in Montana. But then how are you getting transportation from there to your home in Calgary? Isnt it back to a trucking service & clearing customs etc? For bigger shipments or group buy, it would be worth the round trip in your own vehicle. But I cant see the cost benefit for smaller items, 7-8 hours round trip, tank of gas...
> 
> BTW, I'm giving DYK a try on a transaction as we speak. Somewhat similar - you use their Montana address as destination shipping but they pickup daily to Calgary (for a sliding scale fee). So not 1-shot delivery to your door, pickup is from their place in NE Calgary. I'll let you know how it pans out. Anyway, they are in the process of switching to another drop location, similar kind of holding cost structure.
> https://www.montanamailbox.com/


I’ve heard of this through the grape vine I’ll be interested to know how you make out Peter.


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## jmottle (Mar 27, 2018)

As someone who travels across US and international borders extensively, you are not allowed to bring goods across the US border for someone else, you can end up in a lot of hot water trying to do that, especially if you have a NEXUS card. If it's a group buy you'd have to say it all for you and not be obvious that it is not.  Also, if you are cross border shopping and your stay is under 24 hours you don't qualify for a personal exemption so you will pay GST on everything including goods + any applicable duties.  I've noticed however that CBSA agents are usually quite accommodating with these fees if you are honest. Especially on higher ticket items.  I've been over my personal limit by $800+ and they waive me on without paying anything. I've also been over my exception by thousands and technically owe GST and expensive duties.   They have often knocked the duties down to the cheapest they can (books category), far below what the actual goods are and sometimes waive certain items.  

End of the day, DON'T try to smuggle the goods in. If you're caught you will be blacklisted and guarantee yourself secondary inspection for the foreseeable future, not to mention the fines.


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## Tom Kitta (Mar 28, 2018)

There is no issue bringing goods for someone else per CBSA. My parents brought stuff for me. They declared it to the agent that it is for me. They showed the invoices. No issues. CBSA agent calculated the tax GST on the value + shipping value. There is a strange rule for the shipping. I have given my parents permission to act as my broker in writing.

"Goods you bring in for commercial use or for another person do not qualify for the exemption and are subject to applicable duties and taxes. In all cases, goods you include in your 24-hour exemption (CAN$200) or 48-hour exemption (CAN$800) must be with you upon your arrival in Canada."

https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/travel-voyage/bgb-rmf-eng.html

For a group buy the person moving it across the border would be essentially a broker for all his friends. As long as the broker service is free I don't see any tax implications.

If the case were to mature to a group buy we can always ask CBSA to clarify.


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## jmottle (Mar 28, 2018)

Tom Kitta said:


> If the case were to mature to a group buy we can always ask CBSA to clarify.



Typical CBSA...They are really really poor at uniformly enforcing rules. I have literally asked the same question (not this one) to 3 different agents and received three different answers.  I personally have seen people turned away for trying to import goods for someone else.


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## Tom Kitta (Mar 28, 2018)

Well I asked in writing why I was charged GST on shipping and they returned with a rule why so multiple people looked at this.

CBSA is a "lazy" institution. If it involves paperwork they will say no. Long time ago they didn't want to let my US plated car in. My parents didn't bend and went on a strike... right at the border. After 1h seeing our resolve grumpy head guy told me ... he forgot how to file the form and I made him read about it. Suddenly not only was it OK, there was a form for it as well. 

Lots of stories with good old CBSA... when I had an exemption an agent looked at her falling apart belt and blamed me for it. Like I should pay extra tax.


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## jmottle (Mar 28, 2018)

Tom Kitta said:


> Lots of stories with good old CBSA... when I had an exemption an agent looked at her falling apart belt and blamed me for it. Like I should pay extra tax.



Sounds about right.  I try to use one word replies with CBSA and US customs and have as little interaction with either as possible.  One of the reasons I have a NEXUS card, but also the reason I declare everything and try to follow the rules to a T.  The penalties for NEXUS members are very severe. 7 year blacklist (read 7 years rubber glove treatment) and potentially losing NEXUS for life.


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## kevin.decelles (Mar 28, 2018)

I can usually justify the trip to babb with one item . Gas to/from babb is about 40-50 bucks cdn$. My next pickup will be implement tires and a vice ( saving my bottles and cans to buy a Kurt )

I also subscribe to following the rules. Nothing worse than someone who is bored and who has the ability to make your life uncomfortable. All in all I find the Canadian folks very pleasant and almost wanting to chit chat about anything




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## PeterT (Mar 28, 2018)

So Kevin, you drive to the USA storage place, get your items, grab a burger & U-turn to crossing with paperwork in hand?
I can see the value being straightforward, you have receipts in hand. But do you pre-prepare customs forms? I mean because the US shipper isn't 'exporting' so its now up to you to say this is a USA Kurt vise, this is a stick of aluminum, that is a Chinese tool from Shars USA... That's the part I'm fuzzy on. Most things I looked up were duty free anyway, but that's a moot point. I suspect the border guy wants to see a completed form with believable code numbers etc.


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## Tom Kitta (Mar 28, 2018)

When my parents moved about 2000 CAD contained in multiple parcels across the border the CBSA agent at the border crossing filled the stuff in, and got them to pay. Each time I import various tools its called "tooling" with a source as US and a single code line. Its not detailed out as you say - who would have time?

For example you have $1000 worth of US tooling and $1000 worth of various Chinese tooling. Its 2 lines. You would not list all 100 items 1 by 1 (you will have them listed out on a supporting invoices).

Same thing when you say move from US to Canada - my list was about 1 1/2 pages long and it was "detailed". That is for all items one owns. 

At least this has been my experience. 

I would think different rules apply for much larger amounts of $, say above 100k. Or if you buy plenty of tooling in just say 4 categories - for example you got $500 drills, $500 cast iron bars, $2500 lathe, $500 DRO - that is 4 lines.


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## PeterT (Mar 28, 2018)

Found this link, seems like pretty well defined rules about eligible amounts based on travel duration. Whether you get lucky & the border guys fail act on them or to what degree is another matter. http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/travel-voyage/pdt-pdt-eng.html#details-panel1

Tom, do you recall what the specific form you've typically used? I suspect the invoices would constitute most of the backup they would check. I just made up an example like if you had a variety of stuff arriving from different vendors to make the trip worthwhile. I'd guess as long as the sub-totals added up to total declared value that would be the first check. Its just occurs to me that we are dealing with the exact same institution crossing the border as when you ship/receive good through post or courier. They have the ability & right to get into minutia detail & I have seen challenges where they deem it to be X unless you prove otherwise.


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## Tom Kitta (Mar 28, 2018)

Peter, the duration limits are just for the exemption to pay GST (and duty for some items - shoes are 20% if from EU) - if you stay a weekend in the US you can exclude $800. If you stay with someone else its another $800 per person (there are rules for age - 18 and above). The $800 cannot be combined so if you get a $2500 lathe its $800 off it and GST on the rest even if you are with 3 friends. 

Technically the items in the $800 exemption are for your personal use or your family use - this should exclude commercial use or unrelated people.

So say you and your wife go the US and get some stuff over a weekend stay there and have combined $1600. Get beer and stuff up to the limit (OK you can exceed the limit a bit - mileage will very; also if you bring the limit too often you run into another limit... ) You also get some tools/ power tools. It all is under $1600 with receipts for items. You also bring some US made cheese - the one that is filled with some stuff we don't get in Canada - supposedly nasty as per dairy industry. CBSA should not harass you for personal amounts of food - even if for a short trip without exemption. Anyways it is all under $1600 with receipts. The CBSA agent asks you anything to declare. You say you got some tools, power tools, some beer (2 cases), some food - cheese (supposed limit is 20kg and/or $20 (figure out that one)) The agent will ask you for a total of all items. You say as per invoices that the total is $1500. In CAD.

At this point either the agent will wave you through or he will send you to secondary. In secondary you show your invoices. I guess for some people they can do a search. Then you go home.

This is 100% legal way to do it. There are a lot of boxes ripped open near the "pickup" areas and it feels a lot of people don't declare everything. $1400 of tools per trip is not "little" + beer and some cheese. 

I don't remember the exact form - sorry. I am sure I could google that. It is very simple - they will do it at the border. Vendor number doesn't matter - unless its like 100 - maybe suspicious then. Amount doesn't matter - maybe if say $50000 its suspicious. 

You only need to step into the office if A) you are on your weekend trip and have significantly more than $1600 (you and say your wife) a1) if under 48h but more than 24h and over the $400 or B) are just crossing the border after 1h & have to pay GST on everything.

Yes, they can say X unless you prove it costs Y. I guess you can get a guy that just broke up with his wife of 10 years yesterday and he may give you extra hard time. Obviously if you are bringing say brand new DSLR camera from the US to Canada and claim its $100 they will say prove it or its $500. I mean use common sense. 

Sometimes its just stupid bureaucracy. I imported a trailer from the US. I didn't pay any duty in Canada as it was under my "special" exemption of $10000. All was fine. I got the RIV for it. I was at the border & they said they needed to see the trailer again (!). So I towed it to the border in the next few days. They didn't even look at it - they just asked where it is parked - they just made me tow it & didn't actually need to check anything... How did it get into CA in the first place - they refused my 10k and got me to pay taxes on it. They "forgot" the rule - supposedly training issue. I had to go back to get a refund. 

BTW, the refund process works smooth for other things. I used it few times.

BTW2: you can clear your own packages - it just a drag and a bit time consuming - there is a small form & you go to office I think near airport.

There is tons of info on this topic - this is just a forum so the examples are not all inclusive. You can always just ask CBSA with your specific example. You can ask through email as well.


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## kevin.decelles (Mar 28, 2018)

Peter -- you just described my typical visit, minus the hamburger.  Babb is about 15 miles over the border, my average trip is less than 28 minutes in the USA.

Tom has it 100% correct - declare everything, have receipts, be honest and polite.

When I go down, I have all the receipts printed out, which is usually just print outs from Ebay.  I circle the totals, and indicate the currency.  I usually do a simple spreadsheet as a cover sheet with all the items listed and in the same currency.

When I stop at the window, I'm asked how long I was down (28 minutes), what I was doing (picking up parcels), and how much the stuff is worth (usually about 700 - 2000 USD).  They tell me to angle park in a spot and come in the office.  Walk up to the desk, hand over the receipts, pay the GST (on everything),  MAYBE pay duty, pay with my master card, use the bathroom and get on my way.

I've never paid duty though.  On my first trip, it was a quiet morning, so I asked the lady if I could ask her some questions.  I asked her when the duty kicks in.  She said mostly on electronics and clothes, and maybe up to 20% depending.

To give you an example of stuff I brought across:

Trip A - $1200 USD in boat motor parts (bearings, pistons, rings, gaskets, props) from about 10 different sources in the USA.  Also had 3 bags of refractory cement (3 x 90lb bags) which were white in color w/poison symbols on the bag.  She ask what refractory was, and as I started to answer she said "never mind, we'll call it ceramics".  No duty, no questions, no search, no-one looked in the car.  

Trip B - $800 dollars consisting of a 3D printer made in china, filament, etc.  No duty, no questions, no search, no-one looked in the car.

Trip C - $800 dollars, cast-iron tea pot, Tea (loose leaf),  Car parts, lathe parts, stuff from Grizzly.   No duty, no questions, no search, no-one looked in the car.  On the way down, the USA guy asked if it was a nice tea-pot to drive all that way.

On each trip, the USA guy asked where I was going.  I say Babb.  He says "whatcha picking up?"

If it isn't indicated on my receipt, I do try to have the country of origin identified.  This can only help if questioned.  No-one has asked yet.

I prepared like mad for my first trip, now I pop down on a saturday morning and can be back by 1pm if I leave at 7am


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## Dabbler (Mar 29, 2018)

Two summers ago, My daughter and her friend moved their complete household to Calgary.  We arrived at the border in our truck with around 20 boxes of stuff.  We asked about the correct forms, etc and said we were prepared to do a complete declaration...  He asked about 6 or 7 questions about the contents, and he and I negotiated a rough value (in this case $900), and he had us pay GST on the 900 minus the personal deductions for the two of us -which amounted to around 20 bucks.  He seemed to be reluctant to do a complete declaration.  (We  had one page of contents for each box in hand, in case he wanted to see)


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## RobinHood (Mar 30, 2018)

I have been dealing with US and Canadian Customs (and other Countries’) on a regular basis for the last 20 years or so. The most important thing one can do is declare absolutely everything (right down to the fresh mint in your mouth/pocket - because it is considered a food item). The officers appear to have quite a bit of freedom as to how they deal with your decs. That’s possibly where the discrepancy in how folks are treated at the border seems to come from.


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## jmottle (Mar 31, 2018)

RobinHood said:


> The officers appear to have quite a bit of freedom as to how they deal with your decs. That’s possibly where the discrepancy in how folks are treated at the border seems to come from.



Yup, because all day long they deal with people who try to under declare, declare nothing and lie about what they are importing.  It feels like being honest is such a rarity that when you are, you are often rewarded.  I don't think I've ever paid the proper duty or tax on anything as they always knock it down or waive me on without paying anything.


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## Tom Kitta (Mar 31, 2018)

This could be province and/or amount dependant. In Ontario my complaints went all the way to the top guy who sent me apology / excuse letter. Others that I talked to when doing RIV told me of searches to the new trailer all sorts of problems. I lived in US over 5 years. Once you are over 5 and you are moving back they give you up to $10000 off any duty/ tax for each item without limits. With GST+PST this quickly works out to 1000s. There are plenty of Canadians in US moving back and forth... Yet this little thing supposedly is not in training manual and CBSA agents need to be told about it. Sure, you work on the border for 10 years and you never had anyone move back.

For say tools and gear for few 1000 the GST is few hundred $$$ give or take a hundred - at most. Not few thousand or zero.


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## PeterT (Apr 5, 2018)

DYK shipping results are in.

So my Speedy Metal USA package arrived in Sweetgrass Montana & DYK took it from there, very quick turnaround. The order was 67$U & UPS ground to border was 23$U for 20 pounds shipping weight. Most of the fees lined up from DYK website, except there was no mention of warehouse fee & I paid bit of duty. I chatted with the staff member about duty & still cant quite figure out how it was determined. Maybe a guess, but I chocked it up to experience. Seems to me when I looked up the duty codes for most of the common alloys I consistently see zero if made in USA which they are. So next time I'm going to be proactive & provide the specific tariff numbers for them to punch in & hopefully that $ line item will disappear.

DYK has also switched border warehouse providers to https://www.montanamailbox.com/ for more seamless transactions & a few other advantages. I set up an account figuring it will come in handy one day. But as you can see, its ~ same cost. For example 1-60 pounds = 4$US charge for 60 day hold. From what  I have seen all these border places seem to have similar price structure & drop location fee is inevitable.

So... not exactly cheap relative to the 90$C value of goods. In this particular case it was lesser of evils. Speedy has specific alloys I cannot get elsewhere in these cut size quantities. I did a dummy transaction beforehand assuming direct USA to Canada via UPS & the freight charge was significantly higher. Then once landed you have to pull the $45 UPS bone out of your a$$ with their usual dinger fees unless you want to do the Customs Canada self clearing rigamarole.

So my personal conclusion is use a service like this for generally hard to land items where the seller just plain wont ship to Canadians or where they only ship UPS vs USPS & the value/weight/duty combination does not warrant UPS. FYI, Online Metals also uses UPS but they do a slight discounted underwriting (kind of like Amazon shipping is magically less than 2 individuals shipping the same item by Canada Post... even though it arrives by Canada Post). DYK also goes the reverse process when you need to ship Canada to USA, gets trucked to border then turns into a USPS parcel which I am pretty sure must be less than CanPost on certain items.


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## Janger (Apr 5, 2018)

Thanks for posting the details. So it arrived in Calgary and you went to the warehouse to get it?


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## PeterT (Apr 5, 2018)

Correct. DYK pickup is a commercial walk-in building in NE Calgary. Open 10A-6P weekdays.


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## Tom Kitta (Apr 5, 2018)

So you paid 34.94 CAD plus the UPS fee to the US border, correct?

For medium USPS parcel to US border it costs roughly 13USD which is 17 CAD. The cost of the fees of DYK would be the same so total would be 17+35 = 52. So it compares OK but not super great to fees paid with eBay global shipping program. 

However, no everyone offers global shipping on eBay & some sellers will only ship in the US. I am signing up and going to test this soon.

Also combined shipping doesn't work with eBay global shipping program --> major weakness.


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## Tom Kitta (Apr 5, 2018)

Also the brokerage fee they charge is way more than Border Bee I use with UPS / FedEx. Border Bee never exceeded $10 (I think the limit is over $2000). But DYK is high - https://www2.dykpost.com/canada-bound-shipping/ 

Thus shipping via UPS say 50 lbs and $400 worth would be cheaper direct to Canada with Border Bee custom house than UPS into US and to Canada with DYK. 

Still just another service to consider for some cases.


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## PeterT (Apr 5, 2018)

Speedy only ships UPS, period. So you either go UPS to the border, or UPS all the way to Calgary. http://www.speedymetals.com/t-shipping.aspx
If you choose UPS international (meaning USA to Canada) you pay increased transportation costs for the distance which is expected, PLUS the typical 45$+ in added customs dinger fees that UPS puts on top of transportation. At least that has been my painful experience as a non-business regular dude.

With DYK, you are kind of married to their specified USA drop off partner, now Montana Mailbox. Because that's where the Calgary truck is going to & coming from. If I found a cheaper drop off service (which as it stands is only 4$U of the total bill) you still need some way to get it home from there. Yes, I suspect cost is a curve based on weight & these small orders pay a disproportionately higher % in fees. That's the bummer. But this is what I required from this particular vendor. Probably if we did a group buy & traded turns doing the mule trip splitting gas, that would be the least expensive.

ps - part of the goodies in this particular order was 1.25" diameter sticks of decent grade cast iron for my cylinder liners. Speedy has a good selection of this in rounds, discs & blocks. Very hard to find in reasonable quantities.


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## PeterT (Apr 5, 2018)

Tom Kitta said:


> So you paid 34.94 CAD plus the UPS fee to the US border, correct?
> For medium USPS parcel to US border it costs roughly 13USD which is 17 CAD.



Sorry I didn't answer your specific question, yes 34.94C + UPS to border. But I think next time I can make the duty they charged me zero. I think that was a mistake on their part but I didn't quibble.

Re USPS, if Speedy (or anyone really) offered that I would take it in a heartbeat. Then I would get it shipped directly to my home & either pay zero if it lands on my doorstep or 5$ CRA fee plus whatever GST is payable. I'd say 80% of my say sub $200 orders come right to the door. Problem is many vendors don't do USPS. It can vary by their business model but for smaller shops in means someone has to go to a physical post office vs. the brown truck coming to their door.


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## Tom Kitta (Apr 5, 2018)

I don't pay more than $10 in extra UPS fees for years now - just go to Border Bee and sign up. They will inform all providers such as UPS and FedEx that from now on Border Bee is the default processor for your shipments... and poof no more $45 or whatever UPS charges. 

Regarding USPS to Canada direct - yes the CRA fee of just $5 is nice but usually for heavy shipments such as tools the USPS costs are huge - unlike the US where the small/ medium/ large flat rate box are just wonderful (wish this existed in Canada) - no weight restriction and very low price. I mean you can ship in US a box filled with pennies for one low rate. 

For larger orders my preferred shipment is UPS as it is cheap - customs fees are very low - you just cannot use UPS default but a custom provider such as border bee which is cheaper than DYK.  I mean $10 for brokerage is cheap - not as cheap as $5 but close.

Should have asked me about cast iron... through I don't know the grade and I think the smallest stick I have is like 2.5"


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## PeterT (Apr 5, 2018)

OK thanks Tom, I'm going to check into Border Bee.
I think if I was a little more strategic in my materials procurement I would just dedicate a few trips a year & be done with it. This is kind of a nuisance value, not quite a tank of gas, not quite worth the time. I plan on flying in a few RC contests in Montana this summer so I can use that opportunity too to place a time aligned order & pick up myself with the right holding company.


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## ThorsbyDude (Apr 13, 2018)

Quite a bit of dimensional steel at a Ritchie Bros auction on April 19th in Athabasca, AB: https://www.rbauction.com/steel-sup...8631&taxind=31413388980&taxsubcat=12313433057


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## Chris Cramer (Jun 23, 2018)

Would there happen to be any supplier of wrought iron in canada? There are some companies in the US that suppy wrought iron for a fair price, but the shipping is far too expensive.


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## CalgaryPT (Jun 24, 2018)

Doesn't Russel Metals still sell it?


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## Chris Cramer (Jun 27, 2018)

No, their website does list it, but I called and all they carry is steel.


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## Tom Kitta (Jun 27, 2018)

I think wrought iron is no longer made - the only source available is to re-melt old stuff. At least not in commercial quantities. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrought_iron 

So if you want to get a hand on the original stuff it is not that easy.


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## Janger (Jun 28, 2018)

Chris if you find a source please post. Post those USA ones anyway. Interesting. What about shipping to the border and going to get it?


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## Chris Cramer (Jun 28, 2018)

The real wrought iron company is the only supplier I could find of wrought iron. Their 20 KG sample bundles of wrought iron for 62 USD before taxes seems reasonable; but at that weight the cost of shipping would most likely exceed the amount I'm willing to pay.


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## Alexander (Jul 7, 2018)

@Chris Cramer what are you using the wrought iron for? I dont have any just curious about what it is even used for


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## Chris Cramer (Oct 18, 2018)

Wrought iron, unlike cast iron is easy to forge. I've forged quite a bit of mild steel which is the closest match to wrought iron; but I would realy like to try forging some easier metal into some more complex, more detailed designs.


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## Chris Cramer (Oct 18, 2018)

what would be the best place to purchase thicker shainless steel? All the places I've looked up, other than metal supermarket only carry stainless steel sheet metal and not plate. I'm looking for stainless 3/16" - 1/4" plate.


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## CalgaryPT (Oct 19, 2018)

According to their website Russel carries SS plate, although I know there is a big difference between their US and Canadian locations.


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## Tom Kitta (Oct 19, 2018)

Stainless is expensive - thus 8x4 ft plate in 1/4 should be around $1000 or so based on https://www.federalmetals.ca/we-sell/plate price for hot rolled stuff. At $1000 you should go above the minimum price of all large metal suppliers. Its 150kg of stainless. 

Alternatively you can hit auctions BUT finding stainless plate will be very difficult - I seen at least 4 auctions this year with lots of plate of different sizes but I don't recall seeing any stainless. 

I just have round bars of stainless. If you are looking for small pieces then I would try online or the dreaded metal supermarket.


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## Dieselbenz1 (Oct 19, 2018)

What amount are you wanting? I purchased a garbage can of aluminum scrap and 20% turned out to be stainless steel I'll need to check if I still have it, that is if you are interested.


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## gsg9.ca (Oct 28, 2018)

For anyone looking to comparison shop this is what my most recent order looked like. 

Brass - round -
BRASS .375 DIA    $ 5.61
BR316  .187 DIA    $ 1.25
BR516  .312 DIA    $ 3.80 

AR12 ALU ROU .500 DIA 6061-T6         $ 1.45 

AR316 ALU ROND .188" DIA 6061-T6     $  1.30 

AR58 ALU ROU .625 DIA 6061-T6       $  2.25 

AR34 ALU ROU .750 DIA 6061-T6     $  3.20
AR1 ALU ROU 1.000 DIA 6061-T6     $  5.38 

AR114 ALU ROU 1.250 DIA 6061-T6     $  7.00 

CR316 187 DIA 1018    $ 0.40
CR14  .250 DIA 1018     $0.45
CR516 .312 DIA 1018    $ 0.85 


The CR - cold rolled is up about 10% from my May order, the Brass is up @ 20% from May and 30% from this time last year.   The aluminum is 6' and everything else was 12's.  

Crossing my fingers that my local scrap guy gets a nice 'end of year ' clean out again.  I much prefer aluminum at 75 cents a pound to five bucks a foot.


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## PeterT (Oct 28, 2018)

Sorry, where was this order from gsg9? Didn't really check all the items but recognized the aluminum price looked quite decent


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## gsg9.ca (Oct 28, 2018)

Metaux Solutions in Longueuil just outside Montreal.  They're my main supplier when I need full bars.

I've got a friend who owns a machine shop.  When I just need a few inches for a proto I can usually trade him beer for bar.    And I've got walkabout privileges at 4 scrap yards in the region.  It's very hit and miss but from time to time I find some decent stuff and end of year ( fiscal and calendar ) can be like winning the lottery.


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## PeterT (Oct 28, 2018)

Ah, that explains it, thanks.


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## Tom Fitzpatrick (Aug 18, 2019)

Janger said:


> At the last meetup we were discussing where to buy metal. I have more information.
> 
> Metal supermarket: they have lots of selection including the only place I know of to get 12L14 here in town which is very good for machining. They also have aluminium, steel, hot & cold roll, plate, sheet, stainless, copper, and brass. They are open on weekends, Sat. Still on the bad side they are as expensive, more expensive or less expensive than home depot depending on I don't know what. Whims, the moon, maybe qty but not always. Check your invoice before you pay.
> 
> ...


Federal Metal used to allow customers to browse through their bins marked stainless steel, aluminum, brass etc., until some goofball wondered into the area where the big machinery and was hit by a backhoe - totally HIS fault because of stupidity - but Federal Metals lawyers shut this practice down and our beautiful system for scrap metal of all kinds for the home user and amateur machinist/welder/hobbyist ended.  I've asked around and still have not found a comparative supplier of used scrap metal - sorely needed.  If anyone knows of a similar place in or around Calgary please let us know.


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## David_R8 (Jan 15, 2020)

Hi all, I'm wondering if there's been any recent additions of online suppliers to this list.


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## Tom Kitta (Jan 15, 2020)

Not to my knowledge. Federal Metals find your own scrap service ended ... like 5 years ago. I am not aware of any new suppliers coming onto market in the last 12 months in Calgary area. Same for online availability - at least for Canada service.


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## David_R8 (Jan 15, 2020)

Thanks @Tom Kitta 
Guess it's Metal Supermarket for me here in Victoria.


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## CalgaryPT (Jan 15, 2020)

Another option to look at is metal fabrication shops, such as Varsteel. I find many of these offer their offcuts at good prices, especially plate. I know it's not Victoria, but Vancouver has one. In Calgary they call it their "Materials Processing Facility"; it's where they do the CNC cutting, brake work, fabricating, etc.


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## Janger (Jan 15, 2020)

Try checking out fasteel in Vancouver. Let us know too please.


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## francist (Jan 15, 2020)

I found these guys a few weeks ago. Haven’t had a chance to look seriously into an order yet but they sounded promising, especially for some of the not so common stuff. The Metal Supermarket inventory is getting pretty skinny recently.

Anyway, here’s a link if anyone wants to look further.

-frank 

https://millenniumalloys.ca/


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## PeterT (Jan 15, 2020)

That looks like it has potential. Unfortunately hard to know what the shipping cost will be. They have a weight calculator but it doesn't translate into dollars delivered to address X. The devil will be in the details, but trucking inside Canada one would think be better than the standard shipping modes. Might have to do a dummy order to see. I'll wait for any firsthand experience & check the prices with 

*Shipping Information*
_Due to the nature of shipping large and heavy materials, shipping will be coordinated for you after your order is placed online. We have an extensive network of shipping companies and expertise on how to get you the best option for your order.

After your order is placed, we will contact you to confirm shipping costs and finalize processing your order.

Since orders often contain materials of varied dimensions, we may split your order into separate packages to make sure that each item is properly padded and secured in the optimal way to prevent damage during shipping._


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## PeterT (Jan 15, 2020)

Hmmm... I just happen to know this 1/2" x 6" was about 17 $/ft at Metal Supermarkets Calgary when I called. Millenium is 30$/ft FOB wherever they are out of
https://millenniumalloys.ca/product/msf-mild-steel-flat-bar-0-5in-x-6in/


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## Dabbler (Jan 16, 2020)

At least Kelowna isn't too far or over the border.  Cut stock prices seem to be all over the map these days, as people scramble for business.


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## Janger (Jan 16, 2020)

PeterT said:


> Hmmm... I just happen to know this 1/2" x 6" was about 17 $/ft at Metal Supermarkets Calgary when I called. Millenium is 30$/ft FOB wherever they are out of
> https://millenniumalloys.ca/product/msf-mild-steel-flat-bar-0-5in-x-6in/



It is $7.25 a foot at federal metals. I assume steel inc would be quite similar. These millennium guys and metal stupid market are out of sight as usual. They can cut you a small quantity which is their niche.


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## Dabbler (Jan 16, 2020)

I needed some 1.25" square  X 10 foot for a project, and steel inc was 7.20 per foot and Federal was 5.25.  I'd love to buy from Steel inc, but for 3$ more gas, I'll do Federal.


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## PeterT (Jan 16, 2020)

I know this has probably been mentioned but is Federal kind of a full length shop or do they cut or min $?


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## Dabbler (Jan 16, 2020)

I can buy 10 foot or 20 foot lengths.  Mostly from pressure by Steel Inc in selling half-lengths.


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## Tom Kitta (Jan 16, 2020)

Federal has no min $. They cut to 10ft or 12ft segments which is good enough for most pp. Maybe if you paid more someone would cut it more or you can just use your own angle grinder. 

Given millenium pricing I doubt they should even be listed as a source of anything but super specialty metals - they are almost double metal supermarket for mild steel and these guys I have not used for ... almost a decade now.


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## Janger (Jan 16, 2020)

Dabbler said:


> I can buy 10 foot or 20 foot lengths.  Mostly from pressure by Steel Inc in selling half-lengths.


Federal now has a big sign saying no cutting. So full or half lengths is your choice.


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## Tom Kitta (Jan 17, 2020)

Well you can still cut yourself if you really need to but the 10ft lengths fit even in small pickup such as Tacoma so not a big deal.


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## Dabbler (Jan 17, 2020)

I was contrasting with the days that only whole lengths could be bought.  THey'd cut it in half, but you had to buy the whole length.

When steel Inc begans selling half-lengths, Federal eventually started selling half lengths also.


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## aubster (Jan 20, 2020)

I went to Steel Inc. on Saturday, prices were higher than Federal, but lower than metal supermarket. I did buy some stuff from him, I know what its like to try and get a new business off the ground, apparently there is a new owner, Dylan Hobel. It was the first time I met him, he was really nice, the steel was stored inside with no surface rust. Hopefully he will get more business and be able to order in bigger quantities and get his prices down.  Just a thought, I wonder would it be worthwhile for someone who owns a business selling steel to get aligned with a scrap dealer to get smaller pieces and sell them at a profit. With most stuff metal supermarkets prices are really high. It would be nice to have a place to buy scrap stuff at a reasonable price.


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## aubster (Jan 20, 2020)

I went to Steel Inc. on Saturday, prices were higher than Federal, but lower than metal supermarket. I did buy some stuff from him, I know what its like to try and get a new business off the ground, apparently there is a new owner, Dylan Hobel. It was the first time I met him, he was really nice, the steel was stored inside with no surface rust. Hopefully he will get more business and be able to order in bigger quantities and get his prices down.  Just a thought, I wonder would it be worthwhile for someone who owns a business selling steel to get aligned with a scrap dealer to get smaller pieces and sell them at a profit. With most stuff metal supermarkets prices are really high. It would be nice to have a place to buy scrap stuff at a reasonable price.


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## Tom Kitta (Jan 20, 2020)

Dabbler said:


> I was contrasting with the days that only whole lengths could be bought.  THey'd cut it in half, but you had to buy the whole length.
> 
> When steel Inc begans selling half-lengths, Federal eventually started selling half lengths also.



I bought half lengths from Federal metals before Steel inc was the thing and the Steel inc previous owner worked at federal metals. Maybe they only offered 20ft / 24ft minimum say 10 years ago. Maybe you got some other guy that was unwilling to be helpful - Steel inc guy was always a wonderful person to work with. Or maybe they had a minimum 20ft purchase but you could get larger odd amount - I remember getting 70ft. Or they had secret minimum amount you needed to spend so no one bothers them with 10ft of 3/8 rod. Or maybe my memory is starting to fail me.

I only got stuff once from Steel Inc. right after he opened up the business. Already was more then FM. Now they are even more. Him as well as new owner simply don't have the volume to compete with FM. 

As for cut offs the business model is very difficult unless you go MS prices. I experienced it myself when trying to sell some steel. I talked to Steel Inc guy about it. Sure you could get a bin with scrap metal from scrap yards or even buy from some steel manufacturer at double the rate FM pays (say 200 per t). But imagine the storage, transport costs needed in addition to very low volume of sales. If someone knows FM owner he or she can ask them how much money they made from cut offs. I bet it will not be more then few 1000 per month max. This is side business at most if you have storage space.

I asked Steel inc guy about different steels - no profit there as volume too low. I asked about 1/4 lengths - again what would he do with some odd cutoffs. Imagine he offered 3" square. He might have to wait a year or more for 1/4 length to sell! Who wants space and money frozen for such a long time?

You can always compete with me on auctions - there is a lot of cut offs to be had. I mostly need square. I have few lifetime supplies of large rounds stock. 

Maybe if someone had a farm or lots of land and was willing to use some of it for some scrap storage and you signed some disclaimer like on a car scrap yard this could work as side income.


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## PeterT (Jan 20, 2020)

Tom, what is your $/lb rule of thumb at auctions for steel or does it vary a lot by shape/alloy etc. 
Like if a guy saw some odd length sticks of 0.5" x 4", what would that typically go for?


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## Tom Kitta (Jan 20, 2020)

I look at how useful given metal is to me vs. current price of scrap and effort to scrap what I don't like. 

So its not exactly price per lbs.

Each auction is different and you are dealing with "different" market. Even same auction company few days apart. Sometimes the difference can be 10x or 30x so huge. 

Generally if I see lots of useful steel for me in a lot I will bid say 2x price of scrap for it. So 10c per lbs. Note that frequently the lot is not even close to 100% useful. Note I am looking for a deal. 

Sometimes I may want to go higher - if say lot would contain a lot of square or rectangle pieces of stock in larger sizes - I could double or even triple above price. 

As for your example sticks of 1/2 inch rod are not going to fetch a high price at auction unless it is some kind of special steel maybe precision polished. Say a whole 5 gal pile filled with pieces of 1/2" to 1" cutoffs from mild steel or 1018 or even 4140 would go for $5. BUT if there are at least two people that want it then it may go for something ridiculous like $30 or even more. 

Also large quantities lower the price - large lot - cheaper per lbs - or many. many lots of the same. The example of 10x or 30x above is from recent auction with spring steel (it was truck suspension shop). They had so much of it that on main auction it went for scrap price - like 5c to 10c an lbs - whole lots with loads of it went for 10 CAD. Some people did not pick up their lots and they had mini sale... few weeks later same stuff went for close to 300 CAD (!!!)


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## Everett (Jan 20, 2020)

A couple weeks ago I got in on an auction and got a truckload of cut plate circles and arcs, from pipe flanges and such.  It was one of those things where I couldn't resist.  Picked it up Wednesday, still in the process of unloading, sorting and stacking, all around time chasing my toddler son. Figure by the time buyers' fees and tax was in it is about 13¢/lb. Only issue is that I don't have a torch or plasma cutter at home but access to the ones at work so no real biggie. If anyone needs a piece of 3/4" or 1" plate let me know, just need to figure out details for cutting a piece off. I'm just west of Edmonton, for what it's worth.


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## PeterT (Jan 20, 2020)

Everett, that's a nice offer.
Tom what auctions do you go to around Calgary that would be best for metal prospecting in particular? I'd like to take one in one day just for a looksee.
I have to make an inventory list of my 'thickish' projects, then maybe I can search more sensibly.
Does cast iron come up very often or mostly plate type steel?


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## Dabbler (Jan 21, 2020)

Everett, I have just started designing a project that needs some steel in that range...  Maybe a reason for a field trip!


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## Tom Kitta (Jan 21, 2020)

Cast iron is a bit rare unless its a piece of a machine. You see a bit more often aluminium and stainless. 

I would look into Michner Allan Auctioneering and Club bid. Steel that can be of use to you may take some waiting for. Both are online auctions but you are advised to see stuff in person before bidding.


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## Chicken lights (Feb 2, 2020)

I’ve gone to scrap yards before and tried the game of finding what you want in the size you want. In my experience it’s kind of a time waster unless you’re already making a trip there. 
As much as MS gets a bad rep maybe my local one isn’t that bad. Last time I was there I wanted 5/16” stainless rod, they had an 8’ piece but said they only show 4’ in stock, so they could only charge me for 4’
Something like that but it was $15 or so for 8’ of stainless rod


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## Gerry Rush (Feb 4, 2020)

At my last job, I traveled extensively in AB SK and MB.

 I recommend you wear Safety Glasses and Safety vest or hoodie with the stripes. 
Makes you look respectful of their safety program (I happened to always have mine on for work, so they weren't shiny new either)

The only yards I found where to walk through and but were:

Brooks Industrial Metal, Brooks AB    Lots of oil field and farm, plus trimmings from their punches etc.

Silver Star Salvage and Recycling, Moose Jaw SK (In town)  Small yard, stuff turns over fast. I actually bought a leg vice there for $15.00 4 years ago.

Large yard East of Moose Jaw on HWY1, was part of Silver Star at one time. Lots of Farm Machinery and Railroad stuff. I usually just stopped in and asked permission. If they are loading at the back of the yard, you can scope a lot out on the way back to ask.....Thus the safety gear...

Hub City Iron and Metal, Saskatoon, SK   Lots of Stainless when I was there (tanks, piping, tubing). Have a separate yard for people to walk through, and will cut stuff in big yard when not busy.

CMS Metal Products, Regina SK.  Will let you wander in the small yard by the building, not allowed in yard across the street.

There may be a couple in Nisku/Edmonton area, I just called because I was looking for something specific.

Not ideal for Calgarians, but like I said, never found anywhere else that would even let you in the yard, unless you were unloading.


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## Janger (Apr 8, 2020)

Hey guys if you need Steel in Calgary I'd like to recommend Steel Inc. It's just a local guy, Dylan, who bought the place. He has a wide selection of hot rolled steel and also aluminium. He has plate too. He will sell in shorter lengths and does cutting. I just bought 1/2" by 10" flat bar steel and he cut 5' into three 20" lengths for me no extra charge. Dylan is a little more than federal but much better than metal supermarket. He also orders stuff in - I ordered some 1" by 2" solid 6061 aluminium for a project. It's all stored indoors so it's clean. 

Dylan is open on SATURDAY!

I'm sure it's rough right now for him. Let's keep this guy going and consider him next time you need some material.

He has a page on facebook.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/category/Shopping---Retail/Steel-Inc-Calgary-107853583985076/

Bay #30- 3260, 46 Ave. S.E.
Calgary, Alberta 237
(587) 349-4766

And yes I'm giving him a plug.


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## Dabbler (Apr 8, 2020)

Dylan is a great guy.  he really wants to give the best prices he can, and keep the lights on.


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## CalgaryPT (Apr 8, 2020)

Janger said:


> Hey guys if you need Steel in Calgary I'd like to recommend Steel Inc. It's just a local guy, Dylan, who bought the place.


Did James sell?

I know he was looking at a copper recycling arm.


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## Tom Kitta (Apr 8, 2020)

AFAIK James did sell. I only got some steel from them right after opening. James was a wonderful guy I met back when he worked at federal.


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## CalgaryPT (Apr 8, 2020)

Tom Kitta said:


> AFAIK James did sell. I only got some steel from them right after opening. James was a wonderful guy I met back when he worked at federal.


Ahhh.... if anyone has an email or contact info for him, I'd appreciate if you'd pass it on.


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## PeterT (Apr 8, 2020)

Janger said:


> He has a page on facebook.



Good plug, thanks
I'm not a FaceTwitt-er (LOL) just checking, looks like there is no website but I could call & inquire/order, is that the deal?


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## Dabbler (Apr 8, 2020)

James failed to renew the domain, so the website is gone.  I recommended to Dylan to make a new one as many people aren't on FB.


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## Janger (Apr 9, 2020)

PeterT said:


> Good plug, thanks
> I'm not a FaceTwitt-er (LOL) just checking, looks like there is no website but I could call & inquire/order, is that the deal?



Yes.


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## EliseLCR (May 21, 2020)

Hey you guys  I’m curious if anyone knows off by heart where to find small square tubing - 1” or less. Thickness doesn’t matter much but the lighter the better.
Lengths don’t matter, as my big brother and I both will be using it for a variety of projects (shelving, light simple furniture etc) 
Being in Rocky, I haven’t found anywhere local or in Red Deer yet.. but open to making a trip to Calgary if it exists down there! Lol. Gonna end up needing upwards of 80’ of it 
Thanks  
Elise


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## CalgaryPT (May 21, 2020)

I've bought hundreds of feet of 1/2" 1/16 wall from MetalSuper Markets, as well as 3/4" and 1". I'm sure it's cheaper at other places in Calgary. You can pre-order and they have it ready for you.

Doesn't Premier carry rect tubing in RD?


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## kylemp (May 21, 2020)

EliseLCR said:


> Hey you guys  I’m curious if anyone knows off by heart where to find small square tubing - 1” or less. Thickness doesn’t matter much but the lighter the better.
> Lengths don’t matter, as my big brother and I both will be using it for a variety of projects (shelving, light simple furniture etc)
> Being in Rocky, I haven’t found anywhere local or in Red Deer yet.. but open to making a trip to Calgary if it exists down there! Lol. Gonna end up needing upwards of 80’ of it
> Thanks
> Elise


You can get it at steel Inc or federal, in something like 065 wall it's super cheap, although not strong really. I've got some I could probably sell you if you're having a hard time getting it.. 1x1x065 I think


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## Tom Kitta (May 21, 2020)

Price at MS in Calgary is so high I expect it cheaper to buy ready made furniture then make it. Rectangular pipe is available at Federal Metals in Calgary. Expect to pay around $3 for kg for thin walled stuff. A bit less per kg for thicker stuff.


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## CalgaryPT (May 21, 2020)

Tom Kitta said:


> Price at MS in Calgary is so high I expect it cheaper to buy ready made furniture then make it. Rectangular pipe is available at Federal Metals in Calgary. Expect to pay around $3 for lbs for thin walled stuff. A bit less per lbs for thicker stuff.


Cheaper still to buy the house and just ask them to throw the furniture in.


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## Tom Kitta (May 21, 2020)

It does happen - when you buy a house you can be asked about furniture - it can be a bargaining chip. For my house in ON I just said it was not mine but my parents. 

Back before the days I had almost unlimited steel supply I run into having to source steel -  prices for items at MS were prohibitive as far as cost - it usually was simply cheaper to buy ready made thing then buy steel to make it (!). Go price steel for back plate for say 8 in chuck. You can get one made in China for around 130 CAD or so at your door - with pins. Now same stuff at MS Calgary (I used 3.5" bar as they don't have online price for 8" & went with weight) is 110. 

MS pricing model is a bit complex and not straight forward - so maybe for 80' of thin walled pipe you can get a good price - I got $167 in Calgary for 80 ft of 0.1 1" square. Given this is around 100 lbs that price would be good - at just 1.67 CAD per lbs - probably a bit more then Federal but not usual 2x. Given that MS can cut to your size etc. for someone like CalgaryPT extra expense of say 10% for extra service is a great deal - this is not the case for many people when buying solid bar of steel for 300% markup at MS.


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## Johnwa (May 21, 2020)

Both Federal metals and Steel inc have hot rolled tubing.  Federal used to have a page listing their products, dimensions,  weights and prices but that has disappeared. Steel Inc has a Facebook page where you can at least see some of their product.  Best that you figure out what you want and then contact them.


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## EliseLCR (May 21, 2020)

Thanks for all the suggestions - I bought a few “sample” chunks of tubing from peavey mart today (1/2”, 3/4” & 1”, ranging between 3’-6’) to play with so we know exactly what we want before making a big order. 
I’ll look into the options you guys suggested and let you know what I discover


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## Johnwa (May 22, 2020)

Federal has now put back the information that was missing on their website.


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## Johnwa (May 22, 2020)

@EliseLCR with the prices back on Federal’s website.  Your material is going to be about $1/ft.


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## YYCHM (May 22, 2020)

Johnwa said:


> Federal has now put back the information that was missing on their website.



So what's that 5' long piece of 1" X 5" for your metal break going to set you back?


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## EliseLCR (May 22, 2020)

Johnwa said:


> @EliseLCR with the prices back on Federal’s website. Your material is going to be about $1/ft.



Thanks John, that’s great


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## Johnwa (May 22, 2020)

I can work with 4” which is about $5/ft.  I’ll have to buy 10ft though.


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## YYCHM (May 22, 2020)

Johnwa said:


> I can work with 4” which is about $5/ft.  I’ll have to buy 10ft though.



I thought Steel Inc sold stuff in any length you needed with no minimum?


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## Johnwa (May 22, 2020)

YYCHobbyMachinist said:


> I thought Steel Inc sold stuff in any length you needed with no minimum?


The only times I bought there I got full lengths but they cut it into manageable lengths.


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## YYCHM (May 22, 2020)

Johnwa said:


> The only times I bought there I got full lengths but they cut it into manageable lengths.



Ah, I see.  I must have misread John's post then


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## BMW Rider (May 22, 2020)

Johnwa said:


> The only times I bought there I got full lengths but they cut it into manageable lengths.


I've only been there once just recently, but bought less than a full length and cut to fit into my truck. Very good price too, I'll certainly patronize them more.


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## Tom Kitta (May 22, 2020)

Full length = 20ft or 24ft, half length = 10ft or 12ft. Usually no one sells less then half length unless you go to Metal Supermarket. Places that need minimum purchase may only sell full lengths of 20 or 24. 

I feel multiple users interchange full length and half lengths - including myself - making it confusing as to what is actually meant by what. 

Generally places with minimum purchase are the cheapest but least friendly as far as cutting stuff to length is concerned - you may also be stuck behind someone picking up order for $20000. This is followed by Federal Metals in Calgary which sells half lengths but at least to my knowledge will not cut shorter even for just transport. Next is Steel Inc. which is measurable amount more then Federal but they will do few more cuts. Finally its MS which will cut for a price into as many pieces you want - they may for larger orders of structural steel be cheaper then Steel Inc. and may even touch Federal prices.

Only MS offers some specialty metals. 

You can also get special metals online, through shipping in Canada is ultra expensive. Online is mostly domain of people living in US or maybe Europe.


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## Ggordon (Mar 4, 2021)

I bought myself a portable 20v battery powered bandsaw  it’s ok if they don’t cut stuff.


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## CalgaryPT (Mar 4, 2021)

Ggordon said:


> I bought myself a portable 20v battery powered bandsaw  it’s ok if they don’t cut stuff.


Great idea. I did similarly years ago, but got a PortABand 110VAC. I just bring my Honda generator when I go to those places and cut it in the parking lot. Haven't been there in years, but last time I went there were two other guys in the lot I ended up cutting stock for.


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## Swharfin' (Mar 28, 2021)

Home - ASA Alloys Home | Carry Steel | LITERATURE - Redwood Plastics and Rubber
Just some places I've used  when you want what  you paid for. 
NOTE these may not be the least expensive or the closest to you but I've found them to be reliable & accommodating.


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## David_R8 (Apr 14, 2021)

I'm looking for a small piece of tool steel to make a forming tool. Maybe 3/16" thick by .75 wide by 3" long.
Anyone have a piece to spare?


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## trlvn (Apr 14, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> I'm looking for a small piece of tool steel to make a forming tool. Maybe 3/16" thick by .75 wide by 3" long.
> Anyone have a piece to spare?


I've got a stick of 1/8 X 3/4...believe it is O1 so you would have to harden and temper it.  Is that too thin?

Craig


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## David_R8 (Apr 14, 2021)

trlvn said:


> I've got a stick of 1/8 X 3/4...believe it is O1 so you would have to harden and temper it.  Is that too thin?
> 
> Craig


I need to make a form tool to turn a 5/16" radius so a pretty hefty bite, it could work if I go slooooow.....


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## trlvn (Apr 14, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> I need to make a form tool to turn a 5/16" radius so a pretty hefty bite, it could work if I go slooooow.....


I don't think my 1/8" O1 would be stiff enough...likely chatter city!

Why not just grind it out of a cheap 3/8 X 3/8 HSS blank?  Or even 1/4 X 1/4?

Craig


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## David_R8 (Apr 14, 2021)

trlvn said:


> I don't think my 1/8" O1 would be stiff enough...likely chatter city!
> 
> Why not just grind it out of a cheap 3/8 X 3/8 HSS blank?  Or even 1/4 X 1/4?
> 
> Craig


Yeah, I'm going to try that first. Just not confident in my ability to make a nice profile.


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## RobinHood (Apr 14, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> I need to make a form tool to turn a 5/16" radius so a pretty hefty bite, it could work if I go slooooow.....



Do you have a 5/8” ball nose end mill? If yes, (or something close), you just need to hold it in a round boring bar holder and use the one cutting edge. Done. Works like a charm - especially if you nibble from both z and the x direction and only engage the whole radius for the final clean-up pass of a few tenths.


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## Brent H (Apr 14, 2021)

Go @David_R8 go!!  You can do eeet!!

if you lived closer I have lots of tool steel you could try- small pieces - old end mills!?  I have a piece of 3/16 x 1/2” wide about 12” long ?


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## David_R8 (Apr 14, 2021)

RobinHood said:


> Do you have a 5/8” ball nose end mill? If yes, (or something close), you just need to hold it in a round boring bar holder and use the one cutting edge. Done. Works like a charm - especially if you nibble from both z and the x direction and only engage the whole radius for the final clean-up pass of a few tenths.



I’m not sure I understand what you mean. 
Do you have a video to a similar process?
Edit: I think I know what you mean now after thinking about it.


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## Johnwa (Apr 14, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> Yeah, I'm going to try that first. Just not confident in my ability to make a nice profile.


I believe one of the Dremel sanding drums is 5/16.  I used one to clean up a form tool ground in a piece of 1/2x1/2 HSS.


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## David_R8 (Apr 14, 2021)

Johnwa said:


> I believe one of the Dremel sanding drums is 5/16. I used one to clean up a form tool ground in a piece of 1/2x1/2 HSS.



I think I have some of those actually.


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## YYCHM (Apr 14, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> Edit: I think I know what you mean now after thinking about it.



I don't  Explain it to me now please.  I probably don't appreciate what kind of tool you need.


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## David_R8 (Apr 14, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> I don't  Explain it to me now please.  I probably don't appreciate what kind of tool you need.


I need a form tool that cuts this shape in the end of a 5/8" rod.




@RobinHood is suggesting that I put a ball nose endmill in a boring bar holder and use it to form the radius on the rod by moving the Z and X axis


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## YYCHM (Apr 14, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> I need a form tool that cuts this shape in the end of a 5/8" rod.
> View attachment 14196
> @RobinHood is suggesting that I put a ball nose endmill in a boring bar holder and use it to form the radius on the rod by moving the Z and X axis



So you need a 5/8" rod with a rounded end?  Why?


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## David_R8 (Apr 14, 2021)

It's for the floating vise handle.
I need to put the radius on the part with the pin.


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## YYCHM (Apr 14, 2021)

David_R8 said:


> It's for the floating vise handle.
> I need to put the radius on the part with the pin.
> View attachment 14197



Time to make a ball turning attachment for your lathe.


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## DPittman (Apr 14, 2021)

Guess you don't have a ball turner yet.  Put that on your project list.


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## DPittman (Apr 14, 2021)

Well it ain't a precise way of doing it but... I have put a nice round end on lots of rod by chucking it in a hand drill and then taking it to the belt sander or grinding stone. It sounds crude but it actually can turn out well.


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## David_R8 (Apr 14, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> Time to make a ball turning attachment for your lathe.


Like I need another project!
My project list also includes a straddle knurler for which I've had the parts for a year...


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## PeterT (Apr 14, 2021)

I don't have a ton of experience with those large radii tools but I find them fiddly to make & more-so to make cut properly without rubbing. A ball turning tool is really the weapon of choice, but if you just have the occasional part & its not crucial to have perfect geometry, you can just do a series of in-feed cuts, blue it, then round it smooth with abrasive until the blue is gone. That's how I did the nose case for my radial. So you could similarly do custom profiles for which you will never find a cutter. It does help if you have a CAD program to compute the X-Y intercepts, but circular steps can be done with a hand calculator.


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## Dabbler (Apr 14, 2021)

David I don't think you need a special tool.  call me.  it is very easy to do on your mill, not your lathe.


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## David_R8 (Apr 14, 2021)

Thanks gents, as always the group comes through with a raft of awesome ideas!


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## RobinHood (Apr 14, 2021)

Dabbler said:


> it is very easy to do on your mill, not your lathe.



Spindexer at an angle up from horizontal to the table and a boring head?


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## Dabbler (Apr 15, 2021)

I was thinking aof a version of rotate-around the pin technique with a normal milling cutter.  easy, quick.


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## buckbrush (Jun 1, 2021)

I just use a file and one of my lathes.


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## Alexander (Oct 4, 2021)

This short piece of brass showed up at my work in a box labeled Fragile handle with care. I had a good laugh. I don't think this could get damaged in shipping. Even Canada post couldn't break this.


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## kevin.decelles (Oct 4, 2021)

But Canada post could probably ship that across Canada and back by mistake….. don’t underestimate their true strengths


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CalgaryPT (Oct 4, 2021)

For those of us old experienced enough to remember the joke:


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## Susquatch (Oct 5, 2021)

Hey guys, I didn't read the whole thread but I have a suggestion for buying "rod" and "bar". 

There is a farm supply shop near me where I can get bolts in a plethora of sizes real cheap. I buy bolts (and sometimes nuts) there of various grades (stainless too), chop the heads off, turn off the threads and voila - real cheap bar for my projects. 

Gotta be lots of farm supply shops near Calgary. Farm equipment wrecking yards also have plate. It might be a chore to cut out what you need but it's often times available for less than the cost of scrap metal.


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## SparWeb (Nov 28, 2021)

Hello,
I'm still new here, so I will start reading this thread for its long history.
I'm having a TLDR moment with this thread, but I'll get over it because there's probably some gems hiding in here.

Before I dive into reading this whole (long) thread, is there a summary somewhere that I can use? 
For work, I need to source materials and processes as well (laser cutting, anodizing, composite bonding, etc) and I 'd like to find out when new players enter or leave the field (in Alberta especially).

Suggestion: Anybody compiling a Google sheet?  Does on already exist?  Looks like a big enough audience here for that to be very valuable.


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## Susquatch (Nov 28, 2021)

SparWeb said:


> Hello,
> I'm still new here, so I will start reading this thread for its long history.
> I'm having a TLDR moment with this thread, but I'll get over it because there's probably some gems hiding in here.
> 
> ...



Lots of opportunities here and elsewhere in other threads here on the forum for that. Haven't seen anything though. 

I earmark threads I want to reference in future by sending myself an email with a link to the thread and a subject that I can search.


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## SparWeb (Nov 28, 2021)

The reason I ask is because it's a "backburner" project I've wanted to finish for a really long time.  I have always wanted an easy-reference chart of local or on-line suppliers of materials and processes to refer to.  Mostly for work (aircraft specialty modifications) where we find ourselves needing to specify a lot of very different materials and processes, and call up a qualified supplier for each.  I actually have purchasers here who have a better handle on it than me, but what they don't do is summarize what they know by writing it down.  They just have it in their head!


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## PeterT (Nov 28, 2021)

Welcome. I thing the thread (which started out in 2015) initially just attempted to pull together sources & leads for the local (meaning Calgary area) crowd. But a lot of time has since passed. Economy went through some fun times, some places no longer exist, pandemic made for a few more challenges, quite a few folks joined the forum from other regions who maybe have different resources. I guess I'm saying some of the info may well be dated & there has been no real effort to keep an active list per-se. Also people have different needs based on what they are building. It still might be worth skimming through just to get a feel.

If you have some information to contribute on this front, I'm sure it would be well received. From my own limited experience trying to source typical hobbyist quantities of lets say diverse but typical alloys, its a rather short & dismal list relative to my home town (Calgary). Lots of places in the USA like OnLine Metal, Speedy Metals, McMaster Carr who sell by inch or foot don't really exist to the same extent in Canada (aside from Metal Supermarkets). OLM will ship at slightly discounted UPS rates. Speedy is a UPS only shipper, so you really need a re-ship or border method to mitigate UPS dinger fees. McMaster is awesome, but technically only sells to CDN companies & institutions. Aircraft Spruce in Canada is pretty good for what they carry. Metal is heavy so we are at the mercy of shippers. Especially bigger quantities like full lengths of rod, pipe, bar, whatever usually shipping is the killer cross country. So 30% discount in one city or province gets gobbled up pretty quick to another region. Also, scrap yards seem to have changed over the years, region dependent. Maybe its liability or just extracting maximum value, half the places  we used to frequent back in the day don't even want you on the property unless you are dropping off under supervision. Sometimes some Kijii deals or auctions have come up & the hobby metal ravens circled & scooped in, but not often.

Not sure if this provides overview but feel free to add any knowledge to the pile. There was also some talk of us just getting organized & maybe doing a group buy couple times per year so that a 12 footer of whatever could be divvied up. But it takes an organizer & effort. Mostly I think people are just driven by their own project needs & get what they need when they need it more or less.


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## SparWeb (Nov 28, 2021)

Thanks Peter, my experience is much the same.
For example, Atlas became Ideal Metals, then became Ryerson.  I haven't been in contact with them for almost 10 years, so I'm quite out of touch.
Recently, there's a new supplier named Calgary Metal Market on 41st Avenue NE.  I've been meaning to check them out.
I used to have a list of suppliers that I maintained a long time ago.  I seem to have left that behind when I left that workplace.

Once I was in Windsor Plywood, or maybe Black Forest, and as I was talking to the guy at the desk, he consulted a list of names and phone numbers under the transparent plexi on his desk.  I asked him for a copy of it and that turned out to be a useful list of local (Calgary) suppliers of materials, fasteners, tools and other supplies, that still keep handy.

It sounds like you folks would like to see a copy of that, and bring it up to date.


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## buckbrush (Nov 29, 2021)

SparWeb said:


> The reason I ask is because it's a "backburner" project I've wanted to finish for a really long time.  I have always wanted an easy-reference chart of local or on-line suppliers of materials and processes to refer to.  Mostly for work (aircraft specialty modifications) where we find ourselves needing to specify a lot of very different materials and processes, and call up a qualified supplier for each.  I actually have purchasers here who have a better handle on it than me, but what they don't do is summarize what they know by writing it down.  They just have it in their head!


Are you aware of Aircraft Spruce?


----------



## Dabbler (Nov 29, 2021)

SparWeb said:


> new supplier named Calgary Metal Market


They are nice guys, but you have to watch their prices.  Great prices on used welding equipment.  I bought a rod oven from them for 50 bucks.

When they get metal at auction their prices are very good, and they try to keep near Federal metals prices but with better quality stock.


----------



## Susquatch (Nov 29, 2021)

Dabbler said:


> I bought a rod oven from them for 50 bucks.



What is a rod oven? Is that something designed to restore old rods when the flux gets full of water? (ie sort of like drying out old dessicant)???

If so, any idea what temp it operates at? And how well does it work?


----------



## Chicken lights (Nov 29, 2021)

Susquatch said:


> What is a rod oven? Is that something designed to restore old rods when the flux gets full of water? (ie sort of like drying out old dessicant)???
> 
> If so, any idea what temp it operates at? And how well does it work?


It’s more designed to store them, and keep them dry from the get go. Much like a cigar humidor. Rednecks just use an old fridge that’s broken but the lightbulb gets changed to stay on constant


----------



## Susquatch (Nov 29, 2021)

Chicken lights said:


> It’s more designed to store them, and keep them dry from the get go. Much like a cigar humidor. Rednecks just use an old fridge that’s broken but the lightbulb gets changed to stay on constant



I see. So is that better than the sealed plastic tubes I keep mine in? I do have an old fridge I could use....... I was saving it for the kids, but apparently they don't want my old junk so I have been planning to scrap it as soon as I have time (otherwise known as making it a "priority") to load it into the trailer and get it out of here. 

I assume that this trick works by keep the fridge above ambient and therefore at lower relative humidity.


----------



## DPittman (Nov 29, 2021)

Susquatch said:


> I see. So is that better than the sealed plastic tubes I keep mine in? I do have an old fridge I could use....... I was saving it for the kids, but apparently they don't want my old junk so I have been planning to scrap it as soon as I have time (otherwise known as making it a "priority") to load it into the trailer and get it out of here.
> 
> I assume that this trick works by keep the fridge above ambient and therefore at lower relative humidity.


If you are having problems welding then low hydrogen rods that may not be dry certainly won't be helpful to your welding skills.  If you don't already have some 7014 I'd suggest to try some.


----------



## Chicken lights (Nov 29, 2021)

Susquatch said:


> I see. So is that better than the sealed plastic tubes I keep mine in? I do have an old fridge I could use....... I was saving it for the kids, but apparently they don't want my old junk so I have been planning to scrap it as soon as I have time (otherwise known as making it a "priority") to load it into the trailer and get it out of here.
> 
> I assume that this trick works by keep the fridge above ambient and therefore at lower relative humidity.


Just like a desiccant pack, rods will pick up moisture. The fridge or a rod oven will mitigate that. “Wet” rods don’t weld well


----------



## Aliva (Nov 29, 2021)

The ideal temperature for low hydrogen rods is around 150F. A light bulb in a refrigerator will never achieve this.
I don't have a rod oven so I store all my rods if opened from the original packaging, in a cardboard document shipping tube. The tube is wrapped in clear packing tape to prevent moisture from penetrating.
I found the plastic rod tubes way too expensive at $15 each, I'd need about a dozen. The shipping tubes are about $ 3 for a 36" tube.
Before I do any serious welding I throw the rods in a toaster oven at 150F for a 45 minutes, this drives any moisture out.
At work we put all rod types in the rod oven, not just  low hydrogen.


----------



## Susquatch (Nov 29, 2021)

Aliva said:


> The ideal temperature for low hydrogen rods is around 150F. A light bulb in a refrigerator will never achieve this.
> I don't have a rod oven so I store all my rods if opened from the original packaging, in a cardboard document shipping tube. The tube is wrapped in clear packing tape to prevent moisture from penetrating.
> I found the plastic rod tubes way too expensive at $15 each, I'd need about a dozen. The shipping tubes are about $ 3 for a 36" tube.
> Before I do any serious welding I throw the rods in a toaster oven at 150F for a 45 minutes, this drives any moisture out.
> At work we put all rod types in the rod oven, not just  low hydrogen.



Plastic Tubes 12 x 15 = $180 

Rod Oven gotta be $200 plus

Hmmmmm. I think you should go buy the plastic weld tubes! 

I don't need a dozen. Think I have 6.


----------



## Aliva (Nov 29, 2021)

Susquatch said:


> Plastic Tubes 12 x 15 = $180
> 
> Rod Oven gotta be $200 plus
> 
> ...


6 full length mailing tubes will yield 12 rod tubes 3x6 $18. saved $162. And yes a rod oven well north of $200. I already have a toaster oven. The plastic rod tubes are great for storage but I still have to heat the rods to remove moisture


----------



## Susquatch (Nov 29, 2021)

Aliva said:


> 6 full length mailing tubes will yield 12 rod tubes 3x6 $18. saved $100. And yes a rod oven well north of $200. I already have a toaster oven. The plastic rod tubes are great for storage but I still have to heat the rods to remove moisture



I'm just not convinced that those mailing tubes stop water very well even if wrapped in tape. But I have no data to support that gutt instinct. 

But you answered a question I had. Glad to hear you can pop em in the oven and dry them out. 

Anybody have thoughts about the square plastic sleeves some rods come in?


----------



## Susquatch (Nov 29, 2021)

DPittman said:


> If you are having problems welding then low hydrogen rods that may not be dry certainly won't be helpful to your welding skills.  If you don't already have some 7014 I'd suggest to try some.



Is 7014 low hydrogen or just easy to weld with?


----------



## Aliva (Nov 29, 2021)

Susquatch said:


> Is 7014 low hydrogen or just easy to weld with?


Most 7000 series rods are low hydrogen. If you like easy welding try 7024 but it's only designed for flat welding not like 7018 which is all position


----------



## DPittman (Nov 29, 2021)

Susquatch said:


> Is 7014 low hydrogen or just easy to weld with?


No dry storage requirement for 7014 as they are not like low hydrogen 7018 rods.  My welding instructors referred to 7014 as "farmers electrode"  and I think he meant it as a " jack of all trades, master of none" sort of statement.


----------



## Susquatch (Nov 29, 2021)

Aliva said:


> Most 7000 series rods are low hydrogen. If you like easy welding try 7024 but it's only designed for flat welding not like 7018 which is all position



All my best welding is flat.

Usually sound asleep dreaming about nice welds. 

You said 7024 here but 7014 earlier...... Is one of them a thumb slip?


----------



## Susquatch (Nov 29, 2021)

DPittman said:


> No dry storage requirement for 7014 as they are not like low hydrogen 7018 rods.  My welding instructors referred to 7014 as "farmers electrode"  and I think he meant it as a " jack of all trades, master of none" sort of statement.



Sounds perfect for me here on the farm. I've only really ever used 6011. And a bit of hard face (no idea what number) for plow points. 

Prolly doesn't much matter though. All my welding looks like the mud nest of a barn swallow. Complete with grass and straw.


----------



## PeterT (Nov 29, 2021)

Back to Sourcing Metal Stock (LOL)....
Would there be any appetite organizing a bulk combined order from one of the larger USA suppliers like below, maybe if some logistics could be worked out? For example
- everyone has a wish list in the que, these would be assembled into an order, spreadsheet easy-peasy
- select a mutually acceptable date, ideally coinciding with the perpetual 10-20% off deals that comes along, maybe a 1-2 times per year spring/fall thing?
- place order, drop ship to favorable USA border depot (it all arrives ~ same time)
- the potentially tricky but not insurmountable bit: a dedicated mule with makes a run to border, reimbursed fuel & expenses etc.
- divide the load back in Calgary, everybody gets their drops of unobtanium bronze, brass, cast iron... etc





__





						Buy Metal and Plastics at Online Metals | OnlineMetals.com®️
					

With over 21 years of selling metal online, Online Metals offers the best service, selection, and knowledge. Free MTRs, no cut fees, fast shipping!




					www.onlinemetals.com
				







__





						Speedy Metals Online Industrial Metal Supply
					

Go to SpeedyMetals.com for Stainless Steel, Tool Steel, Aluminum, Bronze, Brass, Cast Iron and Copper. SpeedyMetals.com is your online source for industrial metal supply. Call 866-938-6061 to speak with a representative.



					www.speedymetals.com


----------



## Aliva (Nov 29, 2021)

PeterT said:


> Back to Sourcing Metal Stock (LOL)....
> Would there be any appetite organizing a bulk combined order from one of the larger USA suppliers like below, maybe if some logistics could be worked out? For example
> - everyone has a wish list in the que, these would be assembled into an order, spreadsheet easy-peasy
> - select a mutually acceptable date, ideally coinciding with the perpetual 10-20% off deals that comes along, maybe a 1-2 times per year spring/fall thing?
> ...


Not a bad idea as long as you factor in the shipping, duty ,exchange rate, and Canadian taxes.
You can order direct from McMaster Carr if needed.  Just set up an account under XYZ Machining that's what I did.


----------



## Aliva (Nov 29, 2021)

Susquatch said:


> Sounds perfect for me here on the farm. I've only really ever used 6011. And a bit of hard face (no idea what number) for plow points.
> 
> Prolly doesn't much matter though. All my welding looks like the mud nest of a barn swallow. Complete with grass and straw.


6011 is a hi penetration rod not quite as tough as 7018, and spatters a lot. It's usually used as the root pass on pipe welding, the pipe is then capped with 7018. Mine you it does start the arc pretty easily. Next time you use it, warm up in an oven, you'll see a marked difference in the quality of weld, it'll flow much better .


----------



## PeterT (Nov 29, 2021)

Yup, the various dinger fees must be factored for sure.

Re McMaster, we beat this to death in another post. I've confirmed with them nothing has changed in their export policy, but obviously some accounts are getting through as evidenced by a few folks on the forum & including yourself. I've been meaning to give it another go just for the heck of it. On another forum I frequent, some Canucks were recently rejected (with a similar, suitable sounding names) so not sure why some go through & others don't. I'm actually a bit reluctant to even chat too much on the inter-web anymore so as not to compromise anyone who holds the golden keys - as in they review accounts & some lucky lotto recipients will get an unwelcome email, which is what happened in the past. Apparently MCM got their fingers wrapped $ignificantly & that's what triggered the policy.


----------



## Susquatch (Nov 29, 2021)

PeterT said:


> Apparently MCM got their fingers wrapped $ignificantly & that's what triggered the policy.



Just curious. Who can rap their fingers and under what rules?


----------



## Aliva (Nov 29, 2021)

PeterT said:


> Yup, the various dinger fees must be factored for sure.
> 
> Re McMaster, we beat this to death in another post. I've confirmed with them nothing has changed in their export policy, but obviously some accounts are getting through as evidenced by a few folks on the forum & including yourself. I've been meaning to give it another go just for the heck of it. On another forum I frequent, some Canucks were recently rejected (with a similar, suitable sounding names) so not sure why some go through & others don't. I'm actually a bit reluctant to even chat too much on the inter-web anymore so as not to compromise anyone who holds the golden keys - as in they review accounts & some lucky lotto recipients will get an unwelcome email, which is what happened in the past. Apparently MCM got their fingers wrapped $ignificantly & that's what triggered the policy.


I guess I'm one of the lucky ones, but I had nothing to loose, all they could say is no.


----------



## PeterT (Nov 29, 2021)

I don't know the full details Susquatch, but I've heard the same story from different people on completely different forums. The Who may have been Customs. What constituted a rules breach, I have no clue. I do know that it was sudden & internal & date exactly coincided when I had an account (with a CRA business name & GST#). They politely informed me that they changed their internal policy & going forward would only ship to larger business accounts & education/institutions. They cited excessive customs processing effort & expense which didn't warrant 'smaller accounts'. Trust me, I/we tried multiple times & methods over the past decade to establish account, many with direct follow-up phone calls. No dice. It wasn't until it came up on this forum past year or so I heard of any success. I don't have the post link handy but you could do a search for the discussion/details.


----------



## Susquatch (Nov 29, 2021)

PeterT said:


> I don't know the full details Susquatch, but I've heard the same story from different people on completely different forums. The Who may have been Customs. What constituted a rules breach, I have no clue. I do know that it was sudden & internal & date exactly coincided when I had an account (with a CRA business name & GST#). They politely informed me that they changed their internal policy & going forward would only ship to larger business accounts & education/institutions. They cited excessive customs processing effort & expense which didn't warrant 'smaller accounts'. Trust me, I/we tried multiple times & methods over the past decade to establish account, many with direct follow-up phone calls. No dice. It wasn't until it came up on this forum past year or so I heard of any success. I don't have the post link handy but you could do a search for the discussion/details.



I see. Well, perhaps I can add to that a bit albeit perhaps anecdotally. 

My brother is a maintenance superindent at a very large Canadian company. They did a crap load of business with McMaster Carr. They were cutoff a few years ago too. I don't remember exactly when. They had a big meeting with the top honchos at MMC and were told that the issue was government related. Something about restricted products (military, overseas companies, Cuba, etc etc) Rather than fix the individual problems, MMC opted to discontinue business with Canadian companies. The end result was my brother moving their business elsewhere. 

A few months ago, I was talking to him again and he mentioned some letter punches he had just purchased. I asked him where he got them and he said MMC. So I asked how that was possible. He told me that MMC had fixed their international problems and were slowly and carefully working their way into doing business with Canadian businesses again. 

So it all fits. 

I may try to create an account under my business and see what happens.


----------



## Tom Kitta (Nov 29, 2021)

I have 6010 for few lifetimes as well as lots of specialty rods such as inconel. 

You can get a rod oven cheap on auctions. Main problem is many are big and will take lots of space. You can weld 7000 series without cooking it and a bit "wet" it will simply not be up to specs. I.e. for general "someone spitted some metal chunks on here" welding no need for rod oven. Heck some people shown on youtube you can weld with ... electrodes that were left in water overnight. 

I have enough TIG stuff for few lifetimes as well.


----------



## buckbrush (Nov 29, 2021)

DPittman said:


> No dry storage requirement for 7014 as they are not like low hydrogen 7018 rods.  My welding instructors referred to 7014 as "farmers electrode"  and I think he meant it as a " jack of all trades, master of none" sort of statement.


We always called 6013 Farmers rod.


----------



## Dabbler (Nov 29, 2021)

@Susquatch The rod oven I bought is 4" X 4" X 27"  65 watts, 300 degrees F.  It can take 2 lbs of rods (a pretty standard size to buy...  I  need it for my 7018 rods.  THey seem to work a lot better 'pre-dried'.

If you have an old houshold oven, you can restore rods at various temperatures.  I wouldn't use it for food after, however.  Pic one up off of freeshare and put it into your cavernous barn you own!


----------



## PeterT (Nov 29, 2021)

Susquatch said:


> He told me that MMC had fixed their international problems and were slowly and carefully working their way into doing business with Canadian businesses again. So it all fits.
> I may try to create an account under my business and see what happens.



Encouraging! No harm in trying, all they can say is no. Here is one of the more recent discussions








						McMaster-Carr
					

Has anyone ordered from McMaster-Carr? They seem to have some unique items that I've not seen elsewhere. I'm curious about shipping etc.




					canadianhobbymetalworkers.com


----------



## Tom Kitta (Nov 29, 2021)

You can buy small oven at a thrift store or auction for like $5. At least foot print involved is small.


----------



## DPittman (Nov 29, 2021)

buckbrush said:


> We always called 6013 Farmers rod.


Yes it is also pretty good farmers rod maybe even better  but I think it's easy to lay down a nice looking weld with 7014.


----------



## buckbrush (Nov 29, 2021)

I am amazed there are so many stick welders here.  I get criticized all the time for using stick, Mig seems to have made it extinct. I do have a Mlller tig for firearms work and other fine fussy work.


----------



## DPittman (Nov 29, 2021)

buckbrush said:


> I am amazed there are so many stick welders here.  I get criticized all the time for using stick, Mig seems to have made it extinct. I do have a Mlller tig for firearms work and other fine fussy work.


I have little mig for real light work but for anything heavier than about 1/8" my ac/dc stick welder is the one to be used.  I haven't yet gotten into tig but would like to just don't have a pressing "need" yet.


----------



## Susquatch (Nov 30, 2021)

buckbrush said:


> I am amazed there are so many stick welders here.  I get criticized all the time for using stick, Mig seems to have made it extinct. I do have a Mlller tig for firearms work and other fine fussy work.



I am like @DPittman. I have gas, stick, and MIG, but no TIG yet. Sometimes I think I should have bought TIG instead of MIG. I am also a farmer (think heavy machinery, 1 inch plate, etc) so stick usually rules over MIG. 

But unlike @DPittman & most others here, I can't weld worth a crap and never could. So almost anything I have to say about it needs to be heavily discounted (or even ignored).


----------



## 6.5 Fan (Nov 30, 2021)

Most of the metal i work with is repurposed stuff that was in the farm junk pile. An old rod weeder will yield a lot of good material. I had a real dilemma this summer when my daughter brought in a scrap dealer to clean up the mess, spread over a huge area with most buried in 4 ft tall grass. I spent 2 week salvaging usable material that i could find. Who needs 100 years of worn out cultivator shovels?


----------



## Susquatch (Nov 30, 2021)

6.5 Fan said:


> Most of the metal i work with is repurposed stuff that was in the farm junk pile. An old rod weeder will yield a lot of good material. I had a real dilemma this summer when my daughter brought in a scrap dealer to clean up the mess, spread over a huge area with most buried in 4 ft tall grass. I spent 2 week salvaging usable material that i could find. Who needs 100 years of worn out cultivator shovels?



Boy does that ever sound familiar. 

BTW, I've been told that the cost of Cultivator shovels is going through the roof. Used ones might be worth more than you might think. 

I'm even thinking about Hardfacing some of mine so they last longer.


----------



## 6.5 Fan (Nov 30, 2021)

When we got done with a shovel there wasn't anything left to weld hard facing on.  Used to do a lot of welding on seed drill boots and rod weeder boots.


----------



## Degen (Dec 24, 2021)

With Covid border lock downs it can be difficult using a USA shipping address.  As an alternative are some drop ship companys that you ship to a US address and they will deliver to your door.


----------



## Susquatch (Dec 24, 2021)

Degen said:


> With Covid border lock downs it can be difficult using a USA shipping address.  As an alternative are some drop ship companys that you ship to a US address and they will deliver to your door.



Not aware of this. Tell us more.


----------



## Degen (Dec 24, 2021)

Susquatch said:


> Not aware of this. Tell us more.


In the GTA area one firm is called Crossborder Pickups (can't comment on service because I haven't used them) because I do my own pickups and imports (and no I don't don't do it for others because there is certain registrations, insurance, certifications required).

Suggest you google US address Canadian delivery to your own local area.


----------



## Tom Kitta (Dec 24, 2021)

We have the same thing here in Calgary area - they pick up from Sweet Grass. Forgot company name. They also clear customs. Its in a warehouse in Calgary later on. For many items that ship to Canada its not worth it. Both Sweet Grass depot and forwarder charge extra as well as custom service is not the cheapest so for me UPS shipments it works out the same or even more expensive then just delivery to your door.


----------



## Degen (Dec 24, 2021)

Search around, the rates can very competitive if there is free shipping on the US side.  Most times they require complete invoice from you and depending if you do your Tariff Code look ups they may charge less.  Tariff codes can be found at https://cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/trade-commerce/tariff-tarif/menu-eng.html down load the PDF file as you can search it.  Secret is google the products Tariff code first 4-5 numbers are the important ones as it puts you in the right chapter now narrow down.  Typically I can determine my codes in less than 2 minutes.

If I did it this way most of the time for smaller packages savings would be about 10-60%, because I consolidate and do my own, I typically save about 60-85% (which includes my time and expenses, mind you I have been doing this for years just to keep the costs down).

Added...Mind you custom fees and taxes are still a must, but at least you know they are right.


----------



## PeterT (Dec 24, 2021)

Tom Kitta said:


> We have the same thing here in Calgary area - they pick up from Sweet Grass. Forgot company name. They also clear customs. Its in a warehouse in Calgary later on. For many items that ship to Canada its not worth it. Both Sweet Grass depot and forwarder charge extra as well as custom service is not the cheapest so for me UPS shipments it works out the same or even more expensive then just delivery to your door.


Maybe you are thinking of DYK? I use them for certain shipping situations. I agree, sometimes its a better way to go, sometimes not. You have to calculate the all in charges on both sides of the border. I made a spreadsheet that has their weight/fee tables & dinger fees all baked in. Where services like this are useful is when the USA seller just doesn't want to ship outside USA period. 





						Canada Post Alternative – DYK Post – Ship USPS from Canada
					






					www2.dykpost.com


----------



## Susquatch (Dec 24, 2021)

PeterT said:


> Where services like this are useful is when the USA seller just doesn't want to ship outside USA period.



This is basically where I sit too. There is a growing number of companies who won't ship to Canada - period. For these times, you really have few alternatives if you really need/want the product. That's why I asked about this earlier.

After researching the outfit that @Degen referenced, I'm actually quite happy to pursue it further. I downloaded the brochure from "CrossBorderPickups" and I'm gunna give them a try. It may well be expensive, but given no other alternative, I'm prepared to pay to get those few things I really do need.

For those things where the seller will ship to Canada, I'm not sure there is really any benefit over USPS or UPS.


----------



## Degen (Dec 24, 2021)

Currently USPS is not good at all.  As to how bad, you may never get it, so don't go down that route.  If you are going UPS as for World Wide Expedited, costs more but covers brokerage fees, customs and taxes no getting away with that.  I ship about $2-3k in UPS a month.


----------



## Susquatch (Dec 24, 2021)

Degen said:


> Currently USPS is not good at all.  As to how bad, you may never get it, so don't go down that route.  If you are going UPS as for World Wide Expedited, costs more but covers brokerage fees, customs and taxes no getting away with that.  I ship about $2-3k in UPS a month.



I don't do your volume, but have never had a problem with USPS other than shipping delays. WAY MORE problems with Canada Post and only the odd problem with UPS. 

I guess that just goes to show that we should not trust anecdotal data. The statistics of your higher usage are much more useful and telling.


----------



## Tom Kitta (Dec 24, 2021)

Susquatch said:


> I don't do your volume, but have never had a problem with USPS other than shipping delays. WAY MORE problems with Canada Post and only the odd problem with UPS.
> 
> I guess that just goes to show that we should not trust anecdotal data. The statistics of your higher usage are much more useful and telling.



I also only had issues with Canada Post - they LOST packages! I know such thing does happen but it should not be "common". Good thing I had insurance on them.  I always insure stuff sent via Canada Post - its free for 100 CAD. 

Main issues with UPS were before I had my own broker. I use Border Bee. They are cheap and great. Highly recommended. Process is automatic with UPS.


----------



## Dabbler (Dec 24, 2021)

I've had a consistent bad experience with UPS.  They ship to Calgary via Vancouver so I cannot use my broker here.  Then the next shipment lands in Montreal - their brokerage fee on one shipment was more than  1/3  the retail value 380/1000.  If a vendor only ships UPS I refuse to do business with them.

That was after 3 very good years, and then the 10 bad years began.  I haven't used them for 7 years now.

USPS has never lost a single package for me, and I'm around 50 now.


----------



## Tom Kitta (Dec 24, 2021)

Dabbler said:


> I've had a consistent bad experience with UPS.  They ship to Calgary via Vancouver so I cannot use my broker here.  Then the next shipment lands in Montreal - their brokerage fee on one shipment was more than  1/3  the retail value 380/1000.  If a vendor only ships UPS I refuse to do business with them.
> 
> That was after 3 very good years, and then the 10 bad years began.  I haven't used them for 7 years now.
> 
> USPS has never lost a single package for me, and I'm around 50 now.



My broker is somewhere in Quebec. No issues. UPS is far better the Fedex or DHL as they are automatic. I.e. they have my broker on file, package arrives, I pay tiny fee to my broker. With DHL and Fedex there are all sort of issues as process is not automated, I have to tell them about the broker and they always play stupid. UPS - no issues - they know no one would pay their huge outrageous brokerage fees ever so they know everyone has their broker. Dabbler just sign up for Border Bee.


----------



## Susquatch (Dec 24, 2021)

Boy, looks like I opened a can of worms........


----------



## Tom Kitta (Dec 24, 2021)

Susquatch said:


> Boy, looks like I opened a can of worms........



It actually is a total can of worms - UPS can be terrible for some and great for others. When I moved from US to Canada long time ago my US friend sent me stuff UPS and put in their value. Since this was my own stuff it should be duty free... but UPS decided to do duty anyways... and their world famous brokerage... it was like $500. Lets just say I was not impressed. After some letters Canada returned the duty but UPS kept the brokerage fee...  They can be "hard to deal with" - an understatement!


----------



## Degen (Dec 24, 2021)

Canada Post about 100+ shipments a year, no issues.  US Post at best with tracking 6 weeks plus at worst never arrives.  Do not ship US Post.  Ship Courier, pick your favourite.


----------



## Canadium (Dec 25, 2021)

Susquatch said:


> Boy, looks like I opened a can of worms........


Big time apparently! I don't do huge volumes but over the years many shipments. When coming from the USA only USPS does not add brokerage/customs fees for me. All other couriers do, so USPS has been my favorite for things coming from USA. I never yet lost anything this way. UPS has delivered my packages to wrong address so I now avoid them with a passion. Canada Post has also lost some of my packages. I have had a package mailed from Eastern US go to and vanish in California. I have had a package mailed from nearby central Ontario go to Quebec first! In some cases it has been the fault of the sender with buggered shipping addresses. In other cases something went wrong with the courier.


----------



## Degen (Dec 25, 2021)

Sorry no can of worms meant.  Some explanation is needed. The USPS issue got bad since about early 2018.  Defunding of Postal service, pension fund issues, reductions in staff.  The final straw was when a new Post Master General with an external agenda was put in charge that put it over the edge.

When main transfer stations get full the mail trucks get re-routed and redirected to a different hub to be sorted and directed.  Good in theory, but what is happening is some trucks get a continuous re-route so in effect the mail becomes stored in warehousing  on wheels and until the mail gets sorted (scanned) it vanishes (some cases permanently), its out there on a truck somewhere.

The issue got so bad with my suppliers that shipments are no longer done by mail at their choice (their customers complaining), payments are no longer by mail (either direction) even with tracking numbers (this is how I know).

The only exception so far is stuff being shipped to US armed forces bases aboard, likely a hub that doesn't re-route.

Be forewarned, don't go through my painful learning experience.


----------



## Degen (Dec 29, 2021)

In reading some of the threads for sources, here are some I try to use.

Big box stores, some and price.

Metal retail stores, better selection, can usually get you what you want at a cost.

Distributors, if they talk to you and you buy in wts that make it worth while for them likely yhe best pricing and selection.

Finally, a hidden gem, scrap buyers, I've been lucky and even gotten endmills, reamers and drill bits from them at pennies on the dollar.  Material at scrap pricing plus profit which is way less than wholesale new.  Make friends with them.  This can be a one stop material source, if its bigger than you want buy and run.


----------



## Chicken lights (Dec 29, 2021)

Degen said:


> In reading some of the threads for sources, here are some I try to use.
> 
> Big box stores, some and price.
> 
> ...


Insurance is killing this now, but wholeheartedly agree. You can get stuff for pennies on the dollar at the right locations


----------



## Susquatch (Dec 29, 2021)

Chicken lights said:


> Insurance is killing this now,



I'm sorry, I don't understand. What do you mean by that?


----------



## Chicken lights (Dec 30, 2021)

Susquatch said:


> I'm sorry, I don't understand. What do you mean by that?


Lots of places won’t let you walk around unsupervised anymore, or sell you anything. They say insurance regulations as a reason. I miss the “good old days” of wandering wrecking yards, too many idiots ruined it for the rest of us


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## Susquatch (Dec 30, 2021)

Chicken lights said:


> Lots of places won’t let you walk around unsupervised anymore, or sell you anything. They say insurance regulations as a reason. I miss the “good old days” of wandering wrecking yards, too many idiots ruined it for the rest of us



Ah, ok I get it now and I agree totally! I miss those days too. 

I have found though, that if you act like you belong there nobody will stop you. Just do it and then plead ignorance. I routinely explore the backroom and the warehouse at places where I shop. You just need to watch out for the owners wife. For some reason they usually act like the junkyard dog......


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## garball (Jan 9, 2022)

Degen said:


> In reading some of the threads for sources, here are some I try to use.
> 
> Big box stores, some and price.
> 
> ...


Degen, I’ll need to look into that a bit closer.  I’m in the Vancouver area so if anyone knows a good friendly recycler please post.  I recently got lucky with a machinist who got bought out and he was selling a lot of his shop material supply.  I spent $4600 on a life time supply of material.  Everything from 10” rounds of aluminum, 4140 steel, to 1/16th rod, brass, bronze and stainless.


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## David_R8 (Jan 9, 2022)

garball said:


> Degen, I’ll need to look into that a bit closer.  I’m in the Vancouver area so if anyone knows a good friendly recycler please post.  I recently got lucky with a machinist who got bought out and he was selling a lot of his shop material supply.  I spent $4600 on a life time supply of material.  Everything from 10” rounds of aluminum, 4140 steel, to 1/16th rod, brass, bronze and stainless.


How big of a pile is $4600 worth of metal????


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## Learreply (Jan 31, 2022)

Anyone have a recommendation on Auctions to check out for steel?


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## Susquatch (Feb 1, 2022)

Learreply said:


> Anyone have a recommendation on Auctions to check out for steel?


Search local farm auctions. There is usually some steel/aluminium lots or even machinery (full of big metal parts) up for bid. But you won't usually do better than the scrap value cuz the scrap junk yard dogs are almost always there keeping the bids honest. No real worries about excessive pricing though. When they quit bidding you know you won at a price about half of what it would have cost you to buy retail.


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## Dan Dubeau (Feb 1, 2022)

Just thought I put this here.  For the past year or so I've been buying some drops pallets and bundles from Kawartha metals through one of the managers on facebook market place.  Every once in a while he'll list a bunch of stuff, usually odds n ends, or a bundle of channel, or angle etc for a take it all price usually around $0.5/lb  For the home shop guy who likes to stock a bit of variety it's a pretty good deal.  I've been stocking up for a couple big projects on the go, and can build around whatever I get.  

I bought another bundle last night, but when talking to him, he mentioned they're thinking of setting up a walk in drops section and selling straight by the pound once covid restrictions clear up.  This would be at the Peterborough location, not sure about others, but I just thought I'd post it up here.  

I know it's sometimes tough to get industrial suppliers to talk to small time home shop guys, and you usually get the eff off price when you do.  Kawartha is pretty good though for that though.  

Also, if anybody in the east gta sees one of those bundles and wants to split it, let me know.  Usually a pallet bundle is about $350, and I can pick it up on my way home from work.  Search "steel" in the Peterborough region and you'll find them.


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## Degen (Feb 23, 2022)

This only part of my latest Aluminium  Purchase (about 1000lbs on this load).


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## Rauce (Mar 4, 2022)

I’ll put this here for anyone in the GTHA. My employer in Burlington scraps shafts at pretty regularly that are in the 2-4” diameter range. More material than I can ever use and they don’t mind employees taking scrap steel. So if anyone needs some for a project I can probably hook you up. I’m can’t say for sure what material these OE shafts are but when we make replacements we make them from 4140.


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## Canadium (Mar 4, 2022)

Rauce said:


> I’ll put this here for anyone in the GTHA. My employer in Burlington scraps shafts at pretty regularly that are in the 2-4” diameter range. More material than I can ever use and they don’t mind employees taking scrap steel. So if anyone needs some for a project I can probably hook you up. I’m can’t say for sure what material these OE shafts are but when we make replacements we make them from 4140.


PM sent.


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## Bluebird1337 (Apr 16, 2022)

I order my titanium 6al-4v from https://www.tigertitanium.com/ in USA, good service, and i didnt pay any customs fees so far.


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## Susquatch (Apr 16, 2022)

Bluebird1337 said:


> I order my titanium 6al-4v from https://www.tigertitanium.com/ in USA, good service, and i didnt pay any customs fees so far.



I'm curious. What do you use the titanium for?


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## Bluebird1337 (Apr 16, 2022)

Susquatch said:


> I'm curious. What do you use the titanium for?


Mostly for knife making


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## Rauce (Apr 16, 2022)

Bluebird1337 said:


> I order my titanium 6al-4v from https://www.tigertitanium.com/ in USA, good service, and i didnt pay any customs fees so far.


I’ve never ordered from them but I’ve seen Titanium Joe at trade shows before, they have a location in Kingston. 






						Home - Mobile - Titanium Joe
					

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## Susquatch (Apr 16, 2022)

Bluebird1337 said:


> Mostly for knife making





Rauce said:


> I’ve never ordered from them but I’ve seen Titanium Joe at trade shows before, they have a location in Kingston.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Good stuff! I'm impressed. 

Never tried knife making but I have a few really nice ones. I received a hand made knife from a well know knife maker as a gift for judging a dog trial and I won another one at a raffle. 

Titanium has its own mystique for lots of other things though. 

Thanks to both of you for pointing it out and locating a Canadian source.


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## PeterT (Apr 16, 2022)

Alixpress offers (metric) titanium fasteners in many different head configurations, some already color blinged if that's desireable. As to whether its a mil spec alloy, you be the judge. 
A friend gave me a slightly bent rod from some FS aircraft, haven't found a specific use for it yet. Any specific lathe turning experience to pass on?


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## PeterT (Apr 16, 2022)

Ali seller for smaller titanium fasteners (haven't used them, just curious)








						2.78C$ |Din 7991 M3 Titanium Screw M3x22 M3x25 M3x30 M3x32 M3x35 M3x40 M3x45 M3x50 Flat Head Hex 2.0 Driver Ti Gr2 Qcti Screw - Screws - AliExpress
					

Smarter Shopping, Better Living!  Aliexpress.com




					www.aliexpress.com


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## DPittman (Apr 16, 2022)

PeterT said:


> Ali seller for smaller titanium fasteners (haven't used them, just curious)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Awesome I  can get titanium fasteners for my own hip and knee replacements.  Now to just finding the joints themselves.


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## Janger (Apr 16, 2022)

DPittman said:


> Awesome I  can get titanium fasteners for my own hip and knee replacements.  Now to just finding the joints themselves.


Have you located an installer or is it DIY? :>


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## DPittman (Apr 16, 2022)

Janger said:


> Have you located an installer or is it DIY? :>


No but that's kind of my M.O. secure the material first and worry about how to use it after. 
My first trusted source of info for an important D.IY. project like that would be this forum.


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## Chris Cramer (Apr 16, 2022)

Titanium in itself is usually used for tools, and hardware. Titanium  when it comes to knife making is mostly used as an alloy in addition to carbon steel for higher hardness and corrosion resistance.


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## Chris Cramer (Apr 16, 2022)

Has anyone been to metal works Canada, here in Calgary to purchase their metal? I haven’t heard that they have a minimum purchase, and they do sell their off cut pieces for less; however I don’t know if they are any cheaper than metal supermarket.


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## BlueBird (Apr 16, 2022)

Chris Cramer said:


> Titanium in itself is usually used for tools, and hardware. Titanium  when it comes to knife making is mostly used as an alloy in addition to carbon steel for higher hardness and corrosion resistance.



In knifemaking,  titanium is used for screw, scales, standoff, pivot, pocket clip, etc.


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## Chris Cramer (Apr 16, 2022)

Because of titanium’s high strength to weight ratio, and high toughness, makes it suitable for high performance aircraft and spacecraft frames and components. It also has very high corrosion resistance, especially to chlorine which makes it useful for sea water/ marine frames.


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## Degen (Apr 16, 2022)

I'll have to consider it for a dive knife.


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## Bluebird1337 (Apr 16, 2022)

Degen said:


> I'll have to consider it for a dive knife.


 You can check the Spyderco marine/salt series. They are designed to be used is a wet environment. Blade steel LC200N. Any "titanium blade" gonna be junk with poor performance.


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## Degen (Apr 16, 2022)

I have had (still have a version) of this Spyderco for over 30 years.  One of my favour knives, but as a Dive knife, no.

Titanium as a dive consider 









						Buy Scubapro Mako Titanium Knife at Best Price | Divers Supply
					

ScubaPro Mako Titanium Knife




					www.divers-supply.com


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## BlueBird (Apr 16, 2022)

Degen said:


> I have had (still have a version) of this Spyderco for over 30 years.  One of my favour knives, but as a Dive knife, no.
> 
> Titanium as a dive consider
> 
> ...


Why not ?


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## Degen (Apr 16, 2022)

Folding knife as a dive knife is a bad idea, if you need it, it is the last thing you want to be unfolding to get to safety when you have a limited air supply.

I might add its not about fighting off sharks  but getting out of entanglements (discarded fishing line and nets).


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## BlueBird (Apr 16, 2022)

Degen said:


> Folding knife as a dive knife is a bad idea, if you need it, it is the last thing you want to be unfolding to get to safety when you have a limited air supply.


Oh yeah ok but im pretty sure they have a couple of fixed blade in the marine or salt series, in H1 or lc200n. The titanium blade is a big marketing thing. When you add enough Ti in an alloy to have a considerable corrosion resistance or weigh reduction, the result is a poor performing edge over time. This is why you don't see any titanium alloy blade in the knife enthusiasm world. In the spec of the Mako titanium dive knife (the knife you linked) they say "alpha (hardened) titanium. But the Alpha alloy of Ti is probably the worst alloy to make a blade; non-heat treatable and low strength at room temperature. (I'm not a metallurgist. I did a couple of knife but nothing more.. but i would prefer diving with a knife in LC200N, Vanax, H-1, VG10, we actually know the exact composition of the steel and they are engineered to be a corrosion resistant blade steel)


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## Degen (Apr 16, 2022)

Couple more for you.









						Buy Uk Blue Tang Titanium at Best Price | Divers Supply
					

UK Blue Tang Titanium




					www.divers-supply.com
				












						Shop Aqua Lung Argonaut Ti Blunt Tip at Best price | Divers Supply
					

*Aqua Lung does not allow shipping outside the United States




					www.divers-supply.com
				












						Buy Atomic Ti6 Titanium Pointed Tip Knife at Low Price | Divers Supply
					

A full-tang Titanium blade, that is beautifully crafted and resistant to corrosion.




					www.divers-supply.com


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## Chris Cramer (Apr 19, 2022)

Titanium is actually very soft compared to high carbon steel, or stainless steel; the highest Rockwell hardness you would find with a titanium knife is 55.Titanium has a high weight to strength ratio, and high corrosion resistance, so it is primarily used to reduce weight, and for water resistance. However, the corrosion resistance of titanium is comparable to stainless steel, and the latest stainless alloys that have been engineered for knives have had a high level of corrosion resistance, toughness, and hardness. So I wouldn’t have titanium in mind for the blades of any of my knives unless it were to be used under water. I just started crafting a custom meat carving knife with the latest, most advanced high carbon stainless steel called Cpm Magnacut.


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## Degen (Apr 19, 2022)

A steel you should look at is Aeromet Tool steel, in the Aircraft version its called Aeromet 100 was designed for the F35 (maybe the F22 can't remember).  Made by Carpenter.  High shock load resistance, corrosion resistance etc for land gear.  Makes a great tool steel also.


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