# New 10" X 54" mill ordered.



## John Conroy (Jul 22, 2021)

As some of you already know I have ordered a new Precision Matthews PM1054 mill. Due to production and shipping issues caused by the pandemic the ETA has been pushed back to late August. I ordered a 3 phase motor as I really like the electronic variable speed functionality afforded when using a VFD so it will be set up much like my old Ferro mill. I have sold 2 vintage motorcycles and my old mill to raise funds for the new machine and I have been watching our dollar value compared to the USD and sent PM the money in early July when the USD was at $1.21 Canadian. PM offered a 2% discount if paid by wire transfer in advance. I am going to install a Teco L510 VFD in a steel box enclosure on a swing arm mounted to the machine similar to what I had on the old mill. I am also going to install the 6" riser block that I had one the old mill.

I did a lot of research before choosing  PM as the vendor over Modern Tools, where I bought my new lathe a while back. These are some of the factors I used to make my choice.

Milling machine comparison notes: Modern Tools 3VM vs Precision Matthews PM1054T

3VM available immediately (June 1 2021), PM1054 available end of August 2021 (advantage Modern)

PM1054 weighs 3000LBS vs 3VM weighs 2300LBS. (advantage PM)

Both are completely manufactured in Taiwan and have Turcite B coating on X and Y axis ways (draw)

3VM has 16” of ram travel, PM1054 has 20” (advantage PM)

3VM has 30” of X axis table travel, PM1054 has 36” (advantage PM)

3VM comes with Three HP 3 phase motor and CSA electrics, PM1054 three HP 3 phase motor has no CSA electrics (much simpler to install VFD) (advantage PM)

As quoted 3VM comes with X and Y axis power feeds ( Align brand) and a Sino 3 axis LED DRO installed, a halogen work light and flood coolant system. PM1054 comes with power feeds for X, Y and Z axes (Align brand), heavy duty leveling pads, a PM branded 3 axis LCD DRO and a Maxi Torque Right power draw bar (all accessories to be installed by purchaser) (advantage PM, I would never use flood coolant, don’t like the halogen work light and would rather install my own accessories)

3VM comes with 1 year warranty, PM1054 comes with 5 year warranty (advantage PM)

Total price including shipping, tax and customs brokerage for PM1054 is $1400 CDN less than the Modern 3VM machine (advantage PM)

I have already bought the VFD and installed it in the enclosure and I have all the wiring and set up done, I connected the VFD to the 3 phase motor on my drill press to function test it. When the machine arrives I will only have to bolt the swing arm bracket on and connect the 4 wires at the motor. I also stripped and repainted the riser block to match the color of the new mill.

Now I just have to be patient until it arrives.

























Picture of a single phase version of the PM1054.


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## Tom O (Jul 22, 2021)

Looking good! Sooooooo what kind of Vintage motorcycles did you part with?


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## John Conroy (Jul 22, 2021)

I sold my 78 Yamaha  XS650 scrambler project bike and my 73 Kawasaki H1 triple.









Both were fun long term projects but weren't getting ridden so are better off with new homes. I love restoring the old bikes but I always sell them after completion to help fund the next project.

A couple of previous projects that got sold.





https://johnconroy.smugmug.com/1974-Yamaha-DT250/n-8MSzSk/i-pBwSw7n/A


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## Tom O (Jul 22, 2021)

They are nice looking bikes.


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## David_R8 (Jul 22, 2021)

Nice rides John!
Still got a nice looking Kawi Concours I see!


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## John Conroy (Jul 22, 2021)

Thanks guys, yeah David I bought the C14 new in 08 and it's my main ride. Fantastic bike. I still have a DR650 dual sport for exploring backroads and the Buell X1 for when I feel like riding a back to basics torque monster. It reminds me of the Norton Comando I had in the 70's but it's reliable and doesn't leak. I was going to sell the Buell but my son has other ideas. I also still have a few vintage bikes lined up to get their turn being brought back to life.


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## DPittman (Jul 22, 2021)

Oh boy the waiting will be hard but exciting to get such a beautiful new mill, and it sounds like it was the better deal/choice on top of it all.

I love the picture of the old Yamaha 250.
I had an old pass me down 1969 CT175 junker when I was a teenager. Man I loved that bike.  It had been rode hard and abused long before I got it but I always had dreams of restoring it.  I had bored and put in new rings and pistons but that's as far as I got.  31 years later after sitting idle I figured I better get rid of the thing so I fired it up and rode it around the block a couple of times and sold it.
He is a clip of it just before I sold it.  I don't know if the 250's sounded like it did but the 175's all sounded the same and that brings back good memories for those that ever rode them.

https://youtube.com/shorts/FK6YeIgY6kw?feature=share


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## PeterT (Jul 23, 2021)

I'm looking forward to the mill arrival too. 
Very interesting on the warranty period, hadn't realized that about PM.


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## John Conroy (Jul 28, 2021)

I got word from Matt today that the shipment containing my mill is on the container ship Ever Lunar due to dock in L.A, on Aug 10. Then it goes by rail to Pittsburg. There  is will get a pre-delivery inspection and be crated and come the rest of the way to Edmonton by truck. Interestingly the sister ship of the Ever Lunar is the Ever Given that was stuck in the Suez Canal back in March. No canals between Taiwan and L.A. thankfully!


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## PeterT (Jul 28, 2021)

Lots of goodies in those sea cans. Apparently the 'Ever-Stuck' was causing all sorts of supply chain issues from IKEA to computer hardware. But it was the subsequent impounding that really added delay time.


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## combustable herbage (Jul 28, 2021)

That's very detailed tracking information you won't get that from bangood although the last two items I received I received an email the same day it was delivered so there does appear to be some feedback from Canada Post.  I am sure you are watching many videos everyday in anticipation of your new arrival.


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## Chip Maker (Jul 28, 2021)

Nice bikes! Wow that 1974 250 Yamaha brings back some memories. I bought a 1974 DT 360 Yamaha brand new as a kid.


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## DPittman (Jul 28, 2021)

Chip Maker said:


> Nice bikes! Wow that 1974 250 Yamaha brings back some memories. I bought a 1974 DT 360 Yamaha brand new as a kid.


That must have been a dream come true huh?! They were powerful and lovely bikes.


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## John Conroy (Jul 29, 2021)

I bought a brand new 1972 Kawasaki F9 Bighorn (350 cc enduro) and it's one of the bikes I wish i had never sold. They are extremely rare today but I have a running bike and a parts bike so that will be the next project. I have it all apart right now and the wheels are restored but it will be winter before I resume work on it. This is the thread I started on it.

https://canadianhobbymetalworkers.com/threads/kawasaki-f9-bighorn-project.1764/









Should look like this when done.


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## John Conroy (Jul 29, 2021)

combustable herbage said:


> That's very detailed tracking information you won't get that from bangood although the last two items I received I received an email the same day it was delivered so there does appear to be some feedback from Canada Post.  I am sure you are watching many videos everyday in anticipation of your new arrival.




I found that you can track most cargo ships just with a Google search. The first pic shows the position of the Ever Lunar as of last night, just off the west coast of Japan. Second pic shows the zoomed out view where you can see just how many boats/ships there are around East Asia.

https://www.shiplocation.com/vessels/EVER-LUNAR/CURRENT-POSITION/9629093

The shipping lane from Taiwan to North America leaves Taiwan and heads north through the Sea of Japan then turns east and a little south to get to L.A.  I assume this is because of the calm sea conditions  between China and Japan.


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## combustable herbage (Jul 29, 2021)

Amazing I never knew that existed, crazy the number of ships, reminds me of the GTA at any time!!


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## Dabbler (Jul 29, 2021)

nice choice for the mill - two of my friends have the Modern setup and are happy with it. You, on the other hand, wile LOVE the PM one.  And Matt is a great guy to do business with.


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## John Conroy (Jul 30, 2021)

Well the Ever Lunar is heading through the Tsugaru Strait between the main island of Japan and Hokkaido. It will be out in open Pacific the rest of the way, about 8000 km. Average speed is 18 knots of about 33 kph Which means it will take 242 hours or 10 days to reach L.A.


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## John Conroy (Aug 8, 2021)

The Ever Lunar is getting close to the port of LA, about 3 more days.


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## YYCHM (Aug 8, 2021)

Underway Using Engine?  As opposed to what


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## 6.5 Fan (Aug 8, 2021)

Oars? Sail?


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## Tom O (Aug 8, 2021)

Towed I would think


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## historicalarms (Aug 9, 2021)

John Conroy said:


> I found that you can track most cargo ships just with a Google search. The first pic shows the position of the Ever Lunar as of last night, just off the west coast of Japan. Second pic shows the zoomed out view where you can see just how many boats/ships there are around East Asia.
> 
> https://www.shiplocation.com/vessels/EVER-LUNAR/CURRENT-POSITION/9629093
> 
> ...




      Actually the "turn north' thing is a distance saving exercise. Airlines & shipping companies all go "north " a bit on trans oceanic travel...I was told by a pilot one time that it is shorter distance to go "over the top" as he called it than around the belly of the earth.


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## Tom O (Aug 9, 2021)

I can hear it now…… In 3000 waves turn right…….Recalculating!


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## John Conroy (Aug 12, 2021)

Well I got some disappointing news this morning. The Ever Lunar has arrived at the Port of Los Angeles and was scheduled to dock and begin unloading today but because of a huge backlog of ships waiting there it is now estimated that it will not happen until Aug 20. There are currently 111 ships being unloaded and 47 more, including the Ever Lunar are waiting at anchor for their turn. Apparently the return to more normal shipping volumes has overwhelmed port around the world. This pic shows the congestion at Los Angeles.


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## DPittman (Aug 12, 2021)

John Conroy said:


> Well I got some disappointing news this morning. The Ever Lunar has arrived at the Port of Los Angeles and was scheduled to dock and begin unloading today but because of a huge backlog of ships waiting there it is now estimated that it will not happen until Aug 20. There are currently 111 ships being unloaded and 47 more, including the Ever Lunar are waiting at anchor for their turn. Apparently the return to more normal shipping volumes has overwhelmed port around the world. This pic shows the congestion at Los Angeles.
> 
> View attachment 16566


Wow. It's neat that you can track the shipment of your machine but I think I'd be jumping out of my skin with each delay.  I guess it is what it is and will get here when it gets here but I'm even exited for just pictures and your evaluation of the machine.


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## John Conroy (Aug 12, 2021)

Yeah I am getting pretty antsy and bummed by all the delays. It's looking like it will be near the end of September before it gets here.


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## YYCHM (Aug 17, 2021)

John Conroy said:


> Yeah I am getting pretty antsy and bummed by all the delays. It's looking like it will be near the end of September before it gets here.



Any updates?  Still waiting it's turn to be unloaded?


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## John Conroy (Aug 17, 2021)

The Ever Lunar now is 19th on the list of ships waiting to be unloaded and the ETA for that is now Aug 21. I am told that could change because only a few of the dock locations have cranes that can work with a ship 335 meters long. Every part of the cargo system is so overburdened that I'm sure there will be more delays along the way. I'm still thinking end of September. A full 2 months later than I expected when I made the order. Can't fault PM, they have no control over any of the shipping.


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## John Conroy (Aug 21, 2021)

Well the Ever Lunar is finally in port being unloaded.


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## YotaBota (Aug 21, 2021)

What's the ETA to your shop and are you still getting the collet chuck?


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## John Conroy (Aug 21, 2021)

I've given up trying to predict the ETA as every type of cargo transport seems to be running way behind schedule. The ship was supposed to be unloaded on the 12th, there was a 9 day delay due to over taxed port facilities. I'm guessing the rail trip to Pittsburgh and then the truck transport to Edmonton will be slower than normal as well. It's taking all my will power to not cancel the order from PM and just buy a 3VS mill from Modern. I haven't canceled the collet chuck, I was kind of waiting  for your review of it.


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## YotaBota (Aug 21, 2021)

John Conroy said:


> I was kind of waiting for your review of it.


Then I guess I'd better get to it, anything in particular you want to see?


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## John Conroy (Aug 21, 2021)

Just your general impression of it. How did the "SET Tru" feature work for you?  Were you able to get the runout a low as advertised? I already have a 5C collet chuck but it is not very good as far as runout goes (.0015") and I like the extended clamping range of the ER40 system so I'm ready to commit to ER40 if the chuck is good quality.


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## YotaBota (Aug 21, 2021)

The Set Tru feature works very well, it's just like setting up the 4 jaw chuck. As for runout I got it to less than .0005 in the taper using a new Mitutoya DTI. The unit itself seems well made and is a tight fit on my spindle, I have to go around tightening the locks a few times to get it locked in but that may just be that it's new. To remove it takes some light taps with the plastic hammer but nothing harmful. If it works as well as it looks it will be a good addition to the tool box.


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## John Conroy (Aug 22, 2021)

Thanks Mike, I'm in.


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## YotaBota (Aug 22, 2021)

One thing I just remembered is the wrench is a multisize wrench, 55-62mm, so it doesn't fit the collet nut well. The wrench will work by why not include a wrench that actually fits the nut. I'm making a new wrench that fits the nut but you may want to ask Matt to include the proper wrench.


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## Dabbler (Aug 22, 2021)

Did you torque the collet to 130 ft lbs when you tested the runout?


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## YotaBota (Aug 23, 2021)

My runout test was just the chuck, not with a collet.
My lathe doesn't have a spindle lock so I'm thinking of making a wrench for the chuck as well as the collet nut wrench. The chuck has predrilled holes evenly spaced around the outside so a chuck wrench is doable. That way I'll be able to put some torque on the nut and hopefully get it somewhere close to the 130 mark. I hope to get the nut wrench finished in the next couple of days so then I'll try a collet.


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## kevin.decelles (Aug 23, 2021)

I made a fixture for my er40 but it broke on attempt to torque. Need to make it beefier

I don’t have a torque wrench that has a fitting for the er40 so I was going by feel. I was not at 130 ft lbs when the fixture broke


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## YotaBota (Aug 23, 2021)

Has anyone made a proper 1/2" drive socket to allow using a torque wrench? 
My next comment may get a bunch of "eye rolls" and "duhs" but would the torque needed not depend on the material and material size being clamped? DOC would also play a big part in how much clamping force is needed.
Would smaller diameter material need more clamping force as there is less clamping area than larger diameter material?


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## YYCHM (Aug 29, 2021)

Any idea where your mill is now?


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## John Conroy (Aug 29, 2021)

Apparently they have no way to track the rail shipment so I won't know where it is until it gets to Pittsburgh.


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## John Conroy (Sep 8, 2021)

I talked to Nicole at Precision Matthews today, they have a rail car being delivered tomorrow morning that is probably the one containing my mill. Keeping my fingers crossed.


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## John Conroy (Sep 9, 2021)

Got notice this morning that the machine is in PM's warehouse in Pittsburgh, so it took 19 days to get from the hold of the Ever Lunar to there. Actually that's faster than I expected. They will now do some pre-delivery inspections and ship to me by truck. They say that could happen as soon as Monday since all the accessories I ordered with the mill just have to be put in the crate. I plan to install the power feeds, DRO and power draw bar myself. When I ordered my PM932 mill from them in 2013 it took 7 days to get to the Day and Ross freight terminal in Edmonton. I may get it before the end of September after all.


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## Proxule (Sep 9, 2021)

Wooohoooo


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## DPittman (Sep 9, 2021)

Yeehaaa!


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## John Conroy (Sep 15, 2021)

I got notice from PM today that the mill has been shipped with Estes Express, a company the specializes in LTL freight  to Mexico and Canada from the USA. The commercial invoice has been sent to the customs broker so hopefully there is no hold up there. I used their "Transit Time Calculator" and came up with an ETA 6 days from now, Tuesday September 21. We'll see how accurate that is.


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## John Conroy (Sep 16, 2021)

I'm following the mill using the tracking info supplied by Estes. They say it has arrived at the Estes facility in Joliet Illinois. I assume it will be loaded onto a different truck there. Only 7.5 hrs from Coraopolis PA where PM is but better than nothing.


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## John Conroy (Sep 17, 2021)

It has left Joliet and Estes is now giving an ETA of Thursday Sept 23 at a logistics outfit in Edmonton.


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## 6.5 Fan (Sep 17, 2021)

More stress than waiting for xmas.


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## John Conroy (Sep 17, 2021)

At the Estes facility in Minneapolis this afternoon.


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## John Conroy (Sep 18, 2021)

The trucking industry never sleeps. Overnight it made it from Minneapolis to Fargo and got loaded onto a different truck. I hope all those forklift operators are fully awake and sober. Looks like it should hit the border crossing at North Portal in Saskatchewan today.


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## Crankit (Sep 18, 2021)

John Conroy said:


> The trucking industry never sleeps. Overnight it made it from Minneapolis to Fargo and got loaded onto a different truck. I hope all those forklift operators are fully awake and sober. Looks like it should hit the border crossing at North Portal in Saskatchewan today.



Might be in Edmonton on Monday?


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## Susquatch (Sep 18, 2021)

Holy cow. Following your mill's journey across the globe is like watching a walnut tree grow!


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## John Conroy (Sep 19, 2021)

Well a day later and it's still in Fargo but they still have 5 days to meet their ETA.


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## John Conroy (Sep 21, 2021)

After a 3 day stay in Fargo it is finally on the move again. Next stop Winnipeg as of 0600 this morning.


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## Susquatch (Sep 21, 2021)

Oh my...  This is like watching mountains grow......

But I bet you are as excited as a little boy on Christmas Eve....

I can barely stand the wait for a custom timing belt to arrive, I can only imagine waiting for a brand new mill.......


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## John Conroy (Sep 21, 2021)

Tracking shows it's on the way to Edmonton after a short stop in Winnipeg!!


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## YotaBota (Sep 21, 2021)

If you post the delivery time and date you'll need to set up chairs and sell beer for all those who'll be attending  the event  lol


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## John Conroy (Sep 21, 2021)

I have arranged to have a friend with a tilt deck trailer meet me to pick it up Thursday afternoon. The beer will be free and I have plenty of chairs.


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## YotaBota (Sep 21, 2021)

I have a cousin in St Albert,,,,, damn,, If it wasn't for a previous engagement Thursday or I might be able to get there,,,lol
Enjoy the new addition.


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## John Conroy (Sep 22, 2021)

I got a call just before noon, the mill is here. The lady I talked to on the phone asked when they could deliver it. I told her I think it's too heavy for liftgate service at 3300 lbs. She said that's not too heavy, they can deliver it. I asked her to check with the guys on the loading dock. She called back 15 minutes later and said the liftgate max weight is 1500 lbs, as I suspected. We are going to pick it up tomorrow afternoon, unfortunately my friend with the trailer has to work in the morning. I'll take as many pics as I can documenting the unloading and un-crating.


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## Brent H (Sep 22, 2021)

Go John Go!!! Exciting!!!!!


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## Dabbler (Sep 22, 2021)

That is exiting - I'm looking forward to the pictures!


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## Everett (Sep 22, 2021)

Awesome, thanks for letting us join in the adventure!  I for one have learned a lot from your documentation and details, it's amazing how anything reaches its final destination in reasonable time given all the many layers of transportation and logistics involved!

I'll be watching for pictures too.  If my family wasn't all dealing with a horrible cold (no, not COVID, tested negative) I'd pop over.


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## RobinHood (Sep 23, 2021)

3 - 2 - 1 and here it is… Looking forward to the “final chapter” of your mill purchase. Thanks for sharing John.


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## kylemp (Sep 23, 2021)

John Conroy said:


> I got a call just before noon, the mill is here. The lady I talked to on the phone asked when they could deliver it. I told her I think it's too heavy for liftgate service at 3300 lbs. She said that's not too heavy, they can deliver it. I asked her to check with the guys on the loading dock. She called back 15 minutes later and said the liftgate max weight is 1500 lbs, as I suspected. We are going to pick it up tomorrow afternoon, unfortunately my friend with the trailer has to work in the morning. I'll take as many pics as I can documenting the unloading and un-crating.


I'm not sure what kind of trailer your friend has but a drop deck trailer is the best way to move stuff like this. I rent them from sunbelt as I haven't found anywhere else that has them here, but because they squat down flat to the ground you can move top heavy things (like a mill) quite easily using a pallet jack (if it will take the weight). I don't think that I'll move a machine without one since I found them, it's a lot less scary when moving things that have the majority of their weight so high up.


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## Tom O (Sep 23, 2021)

When We used one it was great although due to the alley/garage discrepancies we placed blocks under one side of the deck so lowering it would bring it closer to level That would be a nice feature on these they are well worth the cost of rental.


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## YYCHM (Sep 23, 2021)

The suspense is killing me

It just occurred to me, the length of the table on your new mill is 10" longer than the entire length of my lathe


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## John Conroy (Sep 23, 2021)

Well we got the new mill home safely. Started the day getting the gantry crane adjusted to the highest it can go in the sweet spot in the garage where there is nothing on the ceiling to hit. The beam clamp and chain hoist in place and ready to go.





I met my friend Glenn at Pacific Coast Express and they loaded it onto Glenn's' trailer deck. The crate is 66" X 66" X 76" tall and the fork lift operator made short work of it. The crate was in perfect condition which made me very happy. 





Once at my place Glenn got the trailer backed in with it's tail aligned with the door opening and we double checked the clearance through the 8' tall door opening. We put a strap around the belly of the crate and connected it to the winch cable then put the pallet jack under the downhill side. We lifted the crate just high enough so it would roll down the deck slowly as the winch was rolling the cable out until the bottom edge was off the trailer. Then with the pallet jack raised as high as it would go we put the machine skates under the bottom corners.

















Then we moved the pallet jack to the uphill side. The skates allowed the bottom edge to roll into the garage as soon as the weight was raised and we let it down slowly with the winch.













We jacked up the pallet jack as high as it would go and placed the other 2 skates under the front edge and when we lowered the jack the weight was all on the skates and it rolled easily into the garage.


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## DPittman (Sep 23, 2021)

Woo-hoo!!


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## John Conroy (Sep 23, 2021)

Once all 4 corners were on skates and we rolled it into the garage we celebrated with a cold beer.

Then we popped the top and sides off the crate, which was amazingly flimsy. I think the plastic wrap around the outside was most of what was holding it together.













With the shell removed we rolled it under the center of the gantry crane and stripped off all the plastic and removed the accessories from the crate.

















With all that stuff out of the way we removed the 4 half inch lag bolts holding it to the pallet and raised it with the chain hoist so we could drag the pallet from under it .





We set it down on the skates and had a close look at the machine. As far as I can tell it all looks good but I'll have to clean off all this packing grease to be sure.













The pre-delivery inspection was done on Sept 9 according to the tag they put on the head.













All the accessories I ordered were in the crate and now the fun begins to install 3 power feeds, a DRO, a power draw bar and the VFD.













The ER40 collet chuck I ordered for my lathe was in there as well as a R8-ER40 chuck for the mill. The ER40 wrench even fits the chuck Mike!













That's it for today, tomorrow morning the cleaning of the brown spooge will begin.


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## RobinHood (Sep 23, 2021)

That’s the way to do it.

Nice unboxing… looking good.


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## Crankit (Sep 23, 2021)

Great picture updates John...looking forward to seeing your accessories being added!


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## YYCHM (Sep 23, 2021)

Are all the accessories just bolt on?  No drilling and tapping required?


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## Doggggboy (Sep 23, 2021)

I'm relieved. I was starting to feel bad for leaving you mill-less for so long.
Not real bad, but a little.


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## John Conroy (Sep 23, 2021)

There will be lots of drilling and tapping I'm sure.


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## Everett (Sep 23, 2021)

Very cool, I can hear your "Christmas morning" giggling while unpacking stuff from here! Nice when a plan comes together.


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## Susquatch (Sep 24, 2021)

I am totally thrilled for you @John Conroy. I can't wait to see it all cleaned up and ready to make chips. Wish I could see that little boy look on your face right now. 



John Conroy said:


> The crate was in perfect condition which made me very happy.



When my lathe arrived, there were two horizontal slots in the box. Exactly what you would expect when an unhappy forklift driver tries his very best to damage the contents. Fortunately, the forks went into empty space inside and nothing was damaged. I'm glad nobody was there to take a picture of my face when I saw those holes....... 



John Conroy said:


> Then we popped the top and sides off the crate, which was amazingly flimsy. I think the plastic wrap around the outside was most of what was holding it together.



When I saw the photo of you rolling it off the flatbed, that's all I could think. Omg, what if that box collapses? In my experience, everything gets fastened to the base skid, and the box is just a dust cover.

Anyway, thanks for sharing John, I'm luvin it!


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## kevin.decelles (Sep 24, 2021)

well played!  congratulations!


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## DPittman (Sep 24, 2021)

Well the wait has been sort of grueling even for us on the sidelines, it has been fun to anticipate the arrival  and I sense that pretty much everyone has shared in the excitement  just like kids at Christmas.  Who knew such a thing could even be fun for those of us on the sidelines.  Thanks for sharing, I think it's safe to say we all are happy for you John.


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## Hruul (Sep 24, 2021)

Congrats on the new mill!! Looks awesome.  Looking forward to the projects that will be coming off of it.


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## YotaBota (Sep 24, 2021)

Congrats John, I'm guessing the final location is prepped and ready.
As Kermit would say "it aint easy being green" (envy). 
Now the whole garage has that "new machine smell" gotta luv it.lol
I like that they feel the need to brag about the power feeds being brand new.
Looking forward to the DRO install, I'm thinking maybe Santa will bring me one.


John Conroy said:


> The ER40 wrench even fits the chuck Mike!


Sure,,, go ahead,,,, twist the knife LOL.


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## Brent H (Sep 24, 2021)

@John Conroy : Bravo for a safe landing!!!  always awesome when you can say it "fit like a glove"

That will be one pimped out machine - awesome!  hope to see lots of project pics as you make the machine your own!

Congrats!


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## 6.5 Fan (Sep 24, 2021)

Congrats on the new mill. Glad to hear it arrived without any damage.


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## Dabbler (Sep 24, 2021)

What a smooth operation!  Nicely done!  It looks like you are well on your way...  can't wait to drop by sometime soon!


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## combustable herbage (Sep 24, 2021)

@John Conroy  Wonderful job on the safe arrival of your mill, it will surely bring you hours of enjoyment I too have enjoyed following the journey and it has made me realize just the unthinkable amount of logistics going on worldwide, the amount of ships out there and how many containers on each and the amount of goods moving just mind boggling.
Congrats and enjoy


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## John Conroy (Sep 24, 2021)

Thanks for all your comments and feedback guys. I started today cleaning and it took about 3 hours with scrapers, Varsol and WD40, and a toothbrush to get all the waxy stuff off. I removed all the way wipers to allow access to all the nooks and crannies and it came out looking great.


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## PeterT (Sep 24, 2021)

Nice looking machine, John. I'm glad it finally landed & everything went well. No doubt do to a lot of careful planning & preparation on your part. Looking forward to the rest of of the build.


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## YYCHM (Sep 24, 2021)

I'd be scared to use it, it looks so nice and clean and smooth


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## Susquatch (Sep 25, 2021)

It is drop dead gorgeous John. Looks better than a new car! Bet it sees a lot of luvin! My bride would make me put clothes on it.......

A picture of the head please?


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## historicalarms (Sep 25, 2021)

Susquatch said:


> It is drop dead gorgeous John. Looks better than a new car! Bet it sees a lot of luvin! My bride would make me put clothes on it.......
> 
> A picture of the head please?



    Use the cloths from the "bride".....brides don't need much for clothing as a rule.


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## Tom O (Sep 25, 2021)

Great looking machine.


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## PeterT (Sep 25, 2021)

Just curious, are both your X handles the conventional 'fixed to the leadscrew' or is one of them a 'push in to engage' type? Modern told me they are obligated to have one of the latter on, mandatory CDN? safety thing. I hated the push-in & ended up buying a 'spare'. But one needs to careful around a turning handle in power feed mode, which is probably what this requirement is all about.


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## John Conroy (Sep 25, 2021)

I spent today sorting out the leveling feet. Matt told me this is their first shipment of mills with a different design for foot mounting so he sent me ones with short 12mm studs that really don't offer  height adjustability since the holes in the base are threaded 3/4"-10. I had to run a tap through all the holes to clear out all the sand, paint and other crap. I shortened the studs that came with the feet so 3/4" protrudes above the washer. I bought some 3/4"-10 X 2.5" bolts that are fully threaded and bored a 12mm hole .800" deep in the ends. The 12mm studs fits up into the end of the 3/4" bolt and I have about 1.25" of height adjustment on each corner, enough to deal with the slope of my shop floor. I machine off 1/2 the thickness of the lock nuts to allow as much adjustment as possible.


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## John Conroy (Sep 25, 2021)

Once I got that sorted I moved it to it's final resting place, exactly where my old mill was. I drilled and tapped four M6 bolt holes for my VFD enclosure mounting arm which is really meant for wall mounting a TV. I chose it so I could mount to a non vertical surface and still have the articulating arm level with the table. I had already test run this VFD but I had to change to acceleration and deceleration times from 3 seconds to 5 as I was getting over current errors occasionally on starts and stops. Other than that it runs like a top and is incredibly smooth and quiet.


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## John Conroy (Sep 25, 2021)

PeterT said:


> Just curious, are both your X handles the conventional 'fixed to the leadscrew' or is one of them a 'push in to engage' type? Modern told me they are obligated to have one of the latter on, mandatory CDN? safety thing. I hated the push-in & ended up buying a 'spare'. But one needs to careful around a turning handle in power feed mode, which is probably what this requirement is all about.


All the handles are the non safety versions. As I found on my old mill you really have to be careful when using the power feeds.


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## PeterT (Sep 25, 2021)

Well that snugged up to the heater with a playing card gap to spare LoL. 
Dumb question (coming from the same guy that didn't consider potential interference of his garage door tracks vs ceiling height) - will you be able to rotate without motor can interfering?


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## John Conroy (Sep 25, 2021)

Yeah it is taller than my old mill. There is about 4" of clearance to the furnace. Not enough height for my riser block unless I move the mill forward about 6". I haven't tried to figure out where the extra height is yet but it is about the same total height as the old mill after the riser block was installed.


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## RobinHood (Sep 26, 2021)

Could it be that the base is taller than on other BP clones? The height above the floor pads / foot mounting looks substantially beefier than even on my real BP.


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## PeterT (Sep 26, 2021)

I've read where some people extend or retract the Y dovetail arm so they can make the head rotation with clearance, then return it back with tilt setting so its repositioned over the mill table. But its very shop  / encumbrance dependent. I thought of many applications I thought I'd be using my mill in tilt mode, but thus far mostly its stayed in the vertical position for the work I've done. I'm no longer apprehensive about dialing it back in, it's just a bit time consuming. In hindsight I probably could have accommodated a riser block & would have benefitted but there were just too many variables with my floor stand & overhead door rails, I didn't want to guess wrong. I didn't even think far enough down the road about pneumatic tool changer, I use a Milwaukee cordless socket wrench on tippy toes. Some of the forum comments said the manufacturer dimensions were not very trustworthy and/or manufacturer changes castings on the fly, although I think PM actually took the time to measure their machines & document it. The 1P motor on my mill is longer body so sticks up more than the 3P. I think if they offered an inflatable milling machine blowup doll or a 1:1 scale cardboard template in front/side view, people might actually buy it! LoL. I'm confident it will all come together to your satisfaction. We are problem solvers!


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## John Conroy (Sep 26, 2021)

I think you're right Rudy. With the knee fully lowered there is 21" from spindle to table top, 3 more than my old mill. If I add the 6" riser block it will put the top of the motor in front of the furnace. For now I'm going to put the riser block aside as I probably won't need it with the extra room under the spindle.


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## John Conroy (Sep 26, 2021)

I got started on the DRO today. I made a small bracket so I can mount the display on top of the VFD enclosure and got the X axis scale mounted. There were no screws in the kit so I had to use some of the M5 stainless screw I keeps around for motorcycle work. I successfully drilled and tapped the 6 required M5 holes with no mishaps. The X is usually easiest as the scale gets mounted to a machined surface but I wound up needing a .020" shim behind one end to off set what looks to be one oddball end cap on the scale. With a bunch to messing around I was able to get square within .002" in both planes. I think that's pretty good for a 37" scale.


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## YYCHM (Sep 26, 2021)

That sucks that all the accessory mounting points weren't pre-drilled and tapped, I'd complain and send it back


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## Tom O (Sep 27, 2021)

I’m still working on fitting my scale on the lathe I’ve machined this pocket to keep it more rigid.


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## John Conroy (Sep 27, 2021)

Installing a DRO is a lot of work and very time consuming if you don't do it often. I installed the one on my old mill but had forgotten. I had to make a run to the bolt house to pick up a bunch more screws but other than that I spent the rest of today installing the Y axis scale and integrated the power feed end stop switch and related hardware onto the same brackets. It turned out pretty well but I forgot to take pictures until I finished. Tomorrow onto the Z axis .


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## John Conroy (Sep 28, 2021)

This morning I decided that installing the Z axis DRO scale would involve moving the knee full travel bottom to top at least a few times to measure scale alignment. After I did it once I decided to put a hold on the DRO install while I installed the Z axis power feed. It takes 90 rotations of the knee lift crank to go full travel and my should was complaining after half travel. The power feed 8nstall threw a curve at me when the extensio shaft would not engage the threads on the original shaft. After a bit of head scatching I realized the original shaft was too long and after careful measurements I cut off .600" to make it fit. It went smoothly from that point. I only needed one .010" shim to get the gear mesh set correctly.


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## John Conroy (Sep 28, 2021)

After the power feed install I got serious about the Z axis DRO scale. What make this one a challenge is making the scale align perfectly with the knee travel when the column of the mill is tapered top to bottom and front to back. After some measuring trial and error I decided I could deal with the 2 degree angle front to back using an angle block in the milling vise so I went ahead and made the first chips. I dealt with the taper from top to bottom with different height mounting blocks with very narrow contact pads to prevent introducing bends into the mounting bracket. I learned a lot during this exercise, I just hope I can remember it next time I have to deal with a mounting challenge like this. Tomorrow I'll finish the mounting brackets for the read head. Matt sent me some pictures showing how they set up the brackets when they install the DRO a d I'll have to make some custom parts.


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## YYCHM (Sep 28, 2021)

Will the Z-Axis DRO/scale install combine the knee and the quill?


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## YotaBota (Sep 28, 2021)

First chips need to framed. lol
You're making good progress, should've invited one of the kids to wind the knee up and down.


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## John Conroy (Sep 28, 2021)

YYCHM said:


> Will the Z-Axis DRO/scale install combine the knee and the quill?


Nope just the knee. I have a separate non integrated quill dro to install also.


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## John Conroy (Sep 29, 2021)

I know it doesn't look like much but this collection of the supplied and shop made brackets for the Z axis scale and power feed stops represents over a day of work. I wanted to keep the power  feed stop hardware away from the knee lock handles, it always seemed in the way on my old mill. The cable to the switch is just barely long enough for this type of mounting. Without custom making all the hardware that's about as clean an install as I could come up with. Tomorrow I can install the X and Y axis power feeds.


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## John Conroy (Oct 1, 2021)

Over the last day and half I got the X and Y power feed units and the power draw bar installed. I'm glad I ordered the power draw bar, even when standing on a 2 step stool I can't see the draw bar, I have to loosen by feel. This Torque-Rite unit is pricey but comes enough hardware to mount it on pretty much every possible Bridgeport or clone you could find. Absolutely every thing I needed came in the box except Teflon tape. It even came with a bottle of air tool oil. 

I spent extra time getting the backlash in the power feed drive gears as low as possible while still having some, these unit came with a selection of shims down to .003" thick so it was possible to really dial the backlash down to a low amount. These are the quietest ones I have ever seen, really happy I spent a few extra buck and ordered the Align brand units. I still have to do some work on cable management as it looks like a den of snakes right now and I still have to install the quill DRO. I'm working on a solution for the tachometer speed sensor and magnet mounting but the machine is pretty much ready to go to work. I trammed the head this morning and got it dialed in at less then .0005" deviation on both axes. I need to get some sort of table covers as well, I have already made a couple of marks on that shiny new table. LoL

I also fabbed a couple of mount for my Ikea work lamps. You can't go wrong for $15 each for these things, they even had blue ones to match the blue on the new mill!


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## 6.5 Fan (Oct 1, 2021)

Looks great, always fun mounting additions to a new machine.


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## PeterT (Oct 1, 2021)

Coming along nicely John! Your ceiling heater lives to heat another day without getting replaced to make way for tool changer haha.

I saw Clough42 just posted a video on his PF conversion to his new PM 935 mill (same model as mine). The way he did/re-did the shims was a bit different. Unlike you, I had PF installed when I purchased. Which is good because its done, but bad because I didn't get to learn & be picky (and oh ya, costs money). But now that I see the operation in video, there are quite a few important gaps & shims that need to be set up properly in sequence. Not pertaining to your build but interested to hear your comments if you have time to view. I'm glad I took your advice on the knee PF, Crank-o-rama would get old in a hurry.


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## Dabbler (Oct 1, 2021)

nice install!


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## Tom O (Oct 1, 2021)

Looking forward to seeing the chips fly.


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## John Conroy (Oct 1, 2021)

Thanks guys. I did watch that Clough42 video Peter. I found that my inner bearing race is a tight interference fit on the lead screw. I had to drive it on with a brass punch so there is no worry of it spinning  on the shaft. For that reason I didn't use that small spacer behind the race and the bearing is fully supported by the race. I had actually made a sheet metal spacer like James did before my machine was here but didn't use it.

You can see the inner race is further in than the shaft shoulder and the bearing rollers are fully supported by the race.


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## John Conroy (Oct 1, 2021)

The Y axis power feed was a bit challenging because you have to drill a hole for the roll pin through the extension shaft and the threads of the original shaft with a hand drill. I held the shaft with a clamp to keep it from turning while I drilled it.


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## YYCHM (Oct 1, 2021)

Did you pre-drill the extension and use it as a guide to drill through the original threaded shaft?


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## John Conroy (Oct 1, 2021)

That would have been smart but no I just winged it and it turned out OK.


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## John Conroy (Oct 1, 2021)

I installed the quill DRO that was on my old mill. I made a new plug to fit the quill stop. It has M5 female threads so it can be attached to the sliding part of the scale. It drilled and tapped a through hole in it at a 45 degree angle for a M5 set screw to retain it in the quill stop. I had to drill 1 new mounting hole in my bracket as the original screw hole did not line up with the hole in the new mill.


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## YYCHM (Oct 1, 2021)

What's the resolution of that quill DRO?  I'm only seeing 0.01 in your image?


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## John Conroy (Oct 1, 2021)

It is showing millimeters in the pictures. It has .001"  resolution. It's a normal Norman Igaging scale.


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## PeterT (Oct 1, 2021)

Someone was asking on another Bridgeport/clone post about mounting a shorter typical X,Y DRO scale on the quill & plug it into a 4th port on DRO box. John's picture shows why that's a PITA if even possible. Even with smaller scale systems there just isn't much real estate to mount brackets & scale & encoder cover without interfering with other mechanical things. The dedicated vernier style quill kits are the way to go. Nice clean installation, access to stop nut, no cables to mess with. There is one thing I learned on mine & that is to run a DTI up & down the scale to ensure its aligned to quill movement so there is no scale misalgnment or tension in the reader head. Sometimes the casting surfaces aren't as reliable as one would assume so might needs bit of shimming here & there. On that front, one trick I saw was to drill set screw holes in mounting brackets so you can micro adjust them in & out to correct plane geometry relative to casting surfaces & that does away with washers & shim stock. Its kind of situation specific but its a good idea IMO.


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## YYCHM (Oct 1, 2021)

John Conroy said:


> It is showing millimeters in the pictures. It has .001"  resolution. It's a normal Norman Igaging scale.



So You have 0.001 on the quill and 0.00001 on the knee. Is that correct?


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## John Conroy (Oct 2, 2021)

I checked both the bracket then the scale with an indicator. I got the bracket perfectly square side to side with .010" deviation front to back. The scale mounts to the bracket with 2 z shaped sheet metal mounts so I checked the scale in bothe axes and was able to get it perfect side to side with just the slotted holes but I needed a .025" shim behind the top z mount to get it perfect front to back. Then I measured the distance between the scale slider and the quill stop plug and turned a piece of 1/2" aluminum rod to match that distance so there is no twisting force on the scale throughout the entire 5" of quill travel.






The resolution of the DRO scales is actually .0002". I have to go into the settings menu on the display to  change the display resolution. There are one too many zeros right now. I have to spend some time with the DRO  manual as it is quite different from the one on the old mill. I'm not sure if I'm a fan of the LCD display, time will tell.

I was struggling with mounting the Z axis DRO scale and power feed stops with the brackets supplied with the kit so I emailed PM and Matt replied with a bunch of pics showing how they do it in their shop. Those pics really helped. I did custom make a couple of bracket parts to make my setup more compact but the mounting concept is the same as PM's. I screwed up when I mounted the Y axis scale, I did it the same way I did my old mill. I noticed how PM does it in the pics that Matt sent then realized why they do it that way. I'm going to change mine and I'll post that change when I do it. 

The installation of the spindle tachometer is still on hold until I come up with a better plan. I have already made the parts to mount the sensor and magnet on the quill nose but a couple of things about that setup bother me. Having a magnet that close to the cutting tools is bound to cause problems when it picks a bunch to swarf. The other negative is that the sensor and magnet mounting rings have to move up and down with the quill so keeping the wire harness out of harms way could be a problem. I would rather attach the magnet to the spindle pulley inside the head where it is away from the cutting so I'm working on a plan for that.


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## Chicken lights (Oct 2, 2021)

Sweet mill!! Can’t wait to see the first project from it!


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## John Conroy (Oct 3, 2021)

I've had the feeling that the spindle speeds were not as high as indicated on the front panel dial so I used my hand held tach and sure enough 4200 rpm indicated was 3400 rpm actual. Looking at the motor sheave pulley the belt should be right to the outside diameter at the highest speed but it was about a half inch inside that. I had to turn the adjuster for the front sheave rocker arm a full 3 turns to get it so the belt goes within about .060" of the OD of the motor pulley and gives me 4060 rpm max. I could get 4200 but I prefer to keep the belt a little inside the max diameter of the pulley. I tried to get a pic of the belt position on the motor pulley but it's just too dark and hard to see in there for the camera. The rocker arm adjuster screw is on top of the head between the motor and spindle.

You can see the black tape wrapped around the spindle with the small square of reflective tape in this pic


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## John Conroy (Oct 3, 2021)

I went to Lowes this morning and picked up a 4' X 2' piece of 1/8" hardboard and made a pair of table covers so I don't have to sweat about dropping tools on it.


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## John Conroy (Oct 3, 2021)

The last bit of work on the VFD was installing a brake switch. With this switch input to S4 of the VFD it will enter "base block" mode as Teco calls it. This mode allows the spindle to coast to a stop so the mechanical brake can stop it as fast as I want and will not conflict with the normal deceleration times.


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## John Conroy (Oct 3, 2021)

I fixed my screw up on the Y axis DRO brackets. The way I did it the first time , the X axis power feed would hit the DRO scale bracket before the table achieved full travel to the left in the X axis direction. I had to shorten 1 L bracket and make up a block to mount to the bottom of the saddle. It got me an extra 1.25" of table travel and will prevent accidentally crashing the power feed into the brackets. This is how I did it the first time.


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## PeterT (Oct 3, 2021)

_Looking at the motor sheave pulley the belt should be right to the outside diameter at the highest speed but it was about a half inch inside that. I had to turn the adjuster for the front sheave rocker arm a full 3 turns to get it so the belt goes within about .060" of the OD of the motor pulley and gives me 4060 rpm max. I could get 4200 but I prefer to keep the belt a little inside the max diameter of the pulley. I tried to get a pic of the belt position on the motor pulley but it's just too dark and hard to see in there for the camera. The rocker arm adjuster screw is on top of the head between the motor and spindle._

Hmm... interesting. You'll have to show me what you did one day. I've been wondering if my rpm specific harmonic hum might be related to belt setup. Its been a while but I don't recall much mention of this kind of adjustment in PM manual. Does it sound any different now or was it just an rpm thing you were correcting?


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## John Conroy (Oct 3, 2021)

No real difference in sound except it's not got a top speed about 20% faster. It's a pretty easy adjustment. With your variable speed crank handle all the way to the 4200 rpm max speed setting remove the belt shield and look inside the head to the rear pulley with mill running at full speed. The belt should be all the way to the outer edge of the rear pulley. If it's  not you loosen the lock nut on the adjusting screw that sticks up on top of the head between the motor and the spindle. With a flat blade screw driver turn the screw counter clockwise. Turn it about 1/2 turn at a time and observe the belt position after each adjustment. It took 3 full turns to move my belt outward about 1/2". I was monitoring the spindle speed at the same time and got to a full 4200 rpm but turned the screw back clockwise a little to take the belt back in a bit. The mill needs to be running in order to make these adjustments just as it would be when turning the speed crank.

I'll post a video of the mill running through the speed range so you can see if it sounds the same as yours.

This adjustment is not covered in the PM manual or even the Bridgeport overhaul manual I have but it is the only adjustment for belt to pulley contact.


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## John Conroy (Oct 6, 2021)

Since I already had the parts machined and a spare digital tach I installed the spindle tach, the design was copied from one made by David Best on the Hobby Machinist forum. I'm concerned that chips will stick to the magnet on the spindle collar and cause problems but it's easy to remove if I don't like it. The collar is cast iron and is a slight interference fit onto the spindle, just a little heat with a heat gun and it slides on but it also has a back up brass set screw holding it. The magnet is attached to the collar with JB Weld the same as I did on my lathe. The sensor ring is aluminum and is a slight interference fit over the nose cap on the quill but also has a stainless M5 set screw holding it in place. The light ring is a 100mm LED halo light from Amazon and is held to the sensor ring with 2 sided tape. I drilled and tapped the sensor ring M12 X 1 so the sensor screws into it and has a jam nut to keep it from moving. There was no plug/wire harness with this tach so I soldered the wires directly to the pins on the back of the display. I shot a short video and you can see it functions fine and the speed agrees with the hand held tach I have. The harness with the tach sensor and light ring wires runs straight out the back of the sensor ring and I covered it with 1/2" split loom for protection. The design is pretty light duty and has lots of potential to fail since the whole thing moves up and down with the quill, time will tell.






























I also did a little cable management, more to come.


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## RobinHood (Oct 6, 2021)

That is a seriously tricked out mill, John. Well done.


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## John Conroy (Oct 8, 2021)

I was a little skeptical when Matt told me the spindle run out on these mills is .0001 or less. I'm a believer now.


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## PeterT (Oct 8, 2021)

Nice. Mine's the same. Brings a smile to your face. But the downside is you now look at cheaper tooling with a hairy eyeball LoL


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## DPittman (Oct 8, 2021)

PeterT said:


> Nice. Mine's the same. Brings a smile to your face. But the downside is you now look at cheaper tooling with a hairy eyeball LoL


Speaking of cheap tooling...
I measured the runout on my spindle when I got my milling machine but had forgotten what it measured ,so John's post above encouraged me to check again.  I'm doubtful my spindle runout could be as low as seen in the video.  Maybe the poor quality indicator? Maybe my setup?  A combination of the two factors? 

https://youtube.com/shorts/bNOJ6fNBChQ?feature=share


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## DPittman (Oct 8, 2021)

How do you post a YouTube video so it shows up here like Johns' and not just a link like I did?


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## YYCHM (Oct 8, 2021)

DPittman said:


> How do you post a YouTube video so it shows up here like Johns' and not just a link like I did?








I did a copy/paste embedded code and had to do some cleanup.....

You have one of those stupid metric DTIs as well Eh.  Was glad when mine crapped out and had to be replaced.
I want Johns DTI mine only measures to 0.0005"


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## John Conroy (Oct 8, 2021)

I bought this one on sale a few years ago from KBC. I think it was $90

https://www.kbctools.ca/itemdetail/1-808-513403


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## John Conroy (Oct 9, 2021)

When it comes to  cheap accessories I have been disappointed by a few that didn't live up to the sellers accuracy claims. PM sells this ER40-R8 collet chuck and claims -runnout of +-.0002" which is another way of saying .0004" or less total runout. Again I was skeptical but for $30 USD I thought I'd take a chance. I checked it yesterday when I was do a bunch of other accuracy checks on the machine. It passes but just barely.

https://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/er-40-collet-chuck-r-8-mount/


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## John Conroy (Oct 13, 2021)

I did a series of checks with a tenths indicator held in a collet in the spindle and a 2-4-6 block. The block was pre tested on my surface plate to be square to within .0001" and the head was trammed beforehand to within .0005" deviation in a 10" circle
I moved the table in all 3 axes with the power feeds and the gib locks lightly snugged. For the X and Y tests the block was lightly snugged in the vise. I am frankly quite amazed at the results as the indicator did not move more than .0002" on any of the 3 tests over 6" of travel on X and Z or 4" of travel on Y.


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## RobinHood (Oct 13, 2021)

That mill seems to be very well made. Good choice John.


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## Dabbler (Oct 13, 2021)

you gotta love it when it all comes together like that.


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## John Conroy (Oct 13, 2021)

Thanks guys I'm very happy it turned out be be so straight. While watching Clough42's videos he suddenly went from using a new PM940 square column mill to a new PM935 knee mill. The only explanation he gave is that the X and Y axis were not perpendicular to each other on the 940 and PM did a trade/upgrade for him. No details but it made me want to verify mine


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## Proxule (Oct 16, 2021)

Beautiful mill, Awesome numbers John, I am jealous!


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## PeterT (Oct 16, 2021)

John Conroy said:


> While watching Clough42's videos he suddenly went from using a new PM940 square column mill to a new PM935 knee mill. The only explanation he gave is that the X and Y axis were not perpendicular to each other on the 940 and PM did a trade/upgrade for him.



I noticed that too. I guess Monday machines can happen with any re-seller, but I bet Matt made it right. I've heard of some of the early RF-45 style Chinese machines where the (bolted) pillar column was out of whack relative to the base so had to be disassembled, shimmed & re-grouted. Do-able but not fun. And others where the Y dovetails had some issue. I can see spending time on a used machine but when it comes new out of box one wants to start making parts & not rebuilding the machine & rectifying factory problems.


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## Dabbler (Oct 16, 2021)

_but I bet Matt made it right._

The Matt part of the story was that Matt gave him a 100% credit, paid to have the imperfect one shipped back to PM, and even paid the shipping on the new upgraded one.  All James had to do was pay the smallish uplift in price.


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## John Conroy (Oct 23, 2021)

I learned something about this style of variable speed head over the last few days. When you crank the variable speed handle toward the slow speed setting you will notice that it's much harder to turn than cranking it toward high speed. This is because the belt is being forced toward the center of the motor pulley/sheave. In order for the belt to go to the centre of the sheave it must compress a very strong spring which makes it harder to crank the handle. When you crank the handle to go faster the spring assists in pushing the belt outward on the sheave  so it cranks easier. I already knew this and anyone who has this style of variable speed head probably already figured this out as well. What I learned is that you should not leave the belt cranked to the low speed position for any length of time when the mill is not being used. When you do that the belt is being crushed between the 2 sheave faces by the force of the spring and it will develop a flattened out area in that crush zone. Similar to the flat spots that develop on vehicle tires when they sit in one spot for long periods of time. I learned this when I left the machine sitting in the low speed setting for 2 days without using it. When I went back to use it there was a significant vibration and sound from the flat spot on the belt as it went around the sheaves each time. I removed the belt access cover and could see the belt vibrating. After about 20 minutes of use the vibration and sound completely went away  as the belt warmed up and resumed it's original shape just like tires do after driving the vehicle until the tires warm up. Since then I have been cranking the head to the high speed position before shutting down for the night and had no more vibration or noise. The only reason this came to my attention is because this new mill has been so smooth and quiet that the sudden appearance of the vibration was concerning.The spring is number 44 in this picture.


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## John Conroy (Oct 23, 2021)

I did 3 short videos on the the tram checks I did and posted them on YouTube in case anyone would like to see the process I used.


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## DPittman (Oct 23, 2021)

I'd like to watch it but I am afraid I will just get jealous of your new machine.


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## PeterT (Oct 23, 2021)

John Conroy said:


> I learned something about this style of variable speed head over the last few days....


I'm seriously wondering if my in & out hum around a certain rpm level might have to do with this belt 'set'. What is a bit frustrating is I tend to operate around this rpm level a lot so of course in the noisy zone - either slower or faster & noise is not there. It could still be harmonics related to belt or spring or motor for that matter, but now you have me thinking. Do you think if I left it for a period in this 1000-1200 rpm then this is also where one would expect the noise? When you say crank it up to high for storage mode, do you mean like up near the red range? I'll have to record my sound again & compare notes with you if it sounds familiar to what you've discovered.


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## PeterT (Oct 23, 2021)

John Conroy said:


> I did 3 short videos on the the tram checks I did and posted them on YouTube in case anyone would like to see the process I used.


Pretty darn good. I'd say you're at the limit your blocks.. Unless those happen to be a brand like Suburban (spelled $uburban).
If your X is zero and Y is 0.0002" I still wouldn't discount the machine. It could be the block grind is a parallelogram. You'll need a squareness checker when you get that surface grinder LOL


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## RobinHood (Oct 23, 2021)

Those are great observations regarding belt set.

I guess you can select back gear and crank to highest speed (500 rpm) and the belt should be in the correct, “unloaded” position.


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## John Conroy (Oct 23, 2021)

PeterT said:


> I'm seriously wondering if my in & out hum around a certain rpm level might have to do with this belt 'set'. What is a bit frustrating is I tend to operate around this rpm level a lot so of course in the noisy zone - either slower or faster & noise is not there. It could still be harmonics related to belt or spring or motor for that matter, but now you have me thinking. Do you think if I left it for a period in this 1000-1200 rpm then this is also where one would expect the noise? When you say crank it up to high for storage mode, do you mean like up near the red range? I'll have to record my sound again & compare notes with you if it sounds familiar to what you've discovered.


I've been cranking it up to about 3000 rpm but I think just keeping in the 2000 range would probably be enough. With the vfd I can crank the speed up with the handle but turn the frequency down so the belt moves to the unloaded position but the actual spindle speed can be kept reasonable.


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## John Conroy (Oct 23, 2021)

PeterT said:


> Pretty darn good. I'd say you're at the limit your blocks.. Unless those happen to be a brand like Suburban (spelled $uburban).
> If your X is zero and Y is 0.0002" I still wouldn't discount the machine. It could be the block grind is a parallelogram. You'll need a squareness checker when you get that surface grinder LOL


I turned the block 180 degrees and got the same numbers. I checked the block on my surface plate and really couldn't see any more than about half of a tenth out of square in either direction. I have 2 blocks and one is very square and the second is about two tenths narrower at one end than the other.

It would be nice to have one of Suburban Tools squares but I'm not willing to spend that much considering how little it would get used. And I'd probably drop it! Lol


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## Susquatch (Oct 24, 2021)

John Conroy said:


> I've been cranking it up to about 3000 rpm but I think just keeping in the 2000 range would probably be enough. With the vfd I can crank the speed up with the handle but turn the frequency down so the belt moves to the unloaded position but the actual spindle speed can be kept reasonable.



Somehow or another I stopped getting notifications about updates to this thread and I missed a lot. It's amazing what you have all done since you got the machine. 

That belt compression thing was an eye opener but I think you are spot on! I like your ideas of how to deal with it but I didn't know you got a VFD for that machine. Or did it come with it? (sorry if you already mentioned this somewhere).


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## John Conroy (Oct 24, 2021)

When I ordered the mill I originally went with a single phase motor option but after some thought I changed my order to a 3 phase. I had a Huanyang vfd on my old mill and loved the ability to adjust spindle speed during a cut so easily. The programability of acceleration times is also nice and really like soft starts on motors instead of the large inrush of current you get with a single phase unit. VFD's are so inexpensive now, and I went with a Teco L510 the same as the one on my lathe, total cost including the enclosure, switches, fan etc was under $500. Even the el-cheapo ones seem to work fine as I have had no trouble with the $80 no name one I installed on my drill press. I actually had the VFD installed in the enclosure and pre-wired long before the mill arrived and all that was left to do was connect the motor and the brake switch.


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## Susquatch (Oct 24, 2021)

John Conroy said:


> When I ordered the mill I originally went with a single phase motor option but after some thought I changed my order to a 3 phase. I had a Huanyang vfd on my old mill and loved the ability to adjust spindle speed during a cut so easily. The programability of acceleration times is also nice and really like soft starts on motors instead of the large inrush of current you get with a single phase unit. VFD's are so inexpensive now, and I went with a Teco L510 the same as the one on my lathe, total cost including the enclosure, switches, fan etc was under $500. Even the el-cheapo ones seem to work fine as I have had no trouble with the $80 no name one I installed on my drill press. I actually had the VFD installed in the enclosure and pre-wired long before the mill arrived and all that was left to do was connect the motor and the brake switch.



I see. All good choices @John Conroy. My Hartford is a step pulley so it needs the VFD more than my Varidrive does. But I used the VFD (an L510 too) on the Varidrive before that and absolutely loved it there too. 

If I can find an inexpensive new or used 2HP VFD, I would install it on the Varidrive and just up my price accordingly. I think it would sell better with a VFD on it - ready to use on 220 single phase power.

Watching a Mill make an ultra low speed cut using a VFD is nothing short of amazing. That demo alone would pop the eyes of a seasoned machinist right out of their head! 

And I love your idea of using a VFD to bring down the spindle speed at max belt position to maintain a smoother belt. Just imagine what a cold winter shop would do.........


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