Dabbler
ersatz engineer
usually they have an electronic ballast in a box built in for wiring and supplying power to the LEDs. You make the junction there.
Electric panel questions.
- Thread starter Perry
- Start date
usually they have an electronic ballast in a box built in for wiring and supplying power to the LEDs. You make the junction there.
This might be helpful to some one who reads this thread in the future. I found it on the city of Airdrie website, but I'm sure most of this would apply to Calgary also. Some good information in here. Answered a lot of the questions I already had searched for answers for.
Electrical for Garages
If the link does not work, contact me, I kept a copy of it.
I'm glad I read page 5. I could see myself drilling holes thru trusses to run wiring. lol.
Contractor updated me today. On hold until November 17th. This is the first appointment for Enmax to come out and do the disconnect. (and hopefully the reconnect later that day) for the new service. Garage furnace will be installed on the same day.
So all I can do is sit and plan my wiring. I'm planning for something in the future. I have no idea what I will need next year let alone tomorrow.
Some other reading lead me to this interesting note of information. The US rules are very close to the Canadian rule regarding having a duplex plug in each car location in a garage. (These can be on a shared circuit.) A lot of the US electrical guys recommend a 20 amp duplex plug on its own circuit for each car location. This is an ideal plug to use as a level one charger plug for an EV.
Electrical for Garages
If the link does not work, contact me, I kept a copy of it.
I'm glad I read page 5. I could see myself drilling holes thru trusses to run wiring. lol.
Contractor updated me today. On hold until November 17th. This is the first appointment for Enmax to come out and do the disconnect. (and hopefully the reconnect later that day) for the new service. Garage furnace will be installed on the same day.
So all I can do is sit and plan my wiring. I'm planning for something in the future. I have no idea what I will need next year let alone tomorrow.
Some other reading lead me to this interesting note of information. The US rules are very close to the Canadian rule regarding having a duplex plug in each car location in a garage. (These can be on a shared circuit.) A lot of the US electrical guys recommend a 20 amp duplex plug on its own circuit for each car location. This is an ideal plug to use as a level one charger plug for an EV.
Tom Kitta
Ultra Member
Power to a garage can be seen as factor of size. My dads is 60amp for about 400sq, mine is 100 for 800 sq so I assume one would want say 200 for 1600 sq garage. In many LEDs there is no controlled outside of LED - its build in. So you just wire it directly to a octagonal (usually) box. At least all of my LEDs are that way.
I'm getting a new 200 amp service in the garage. That should be useful. The house will be fed from that panel. There will be a 100 amp panel in the house.
I should be good for a while in the garage.
Just need to figure out what to install before I drywall. Presently running super small machines in my basement shop, but I see all the toys you gents have and well envy starts to build.
I should be good for a while in the garage.
Just need to figure out what to install before I drywall. Presently running super small machines in my basement shop, but I see all the toys you gents have and well envy starts to build. 
Chicken lights
Forum Pony Express Driver
Are you planning on doing the drywall? If you are, and haven’t done much drywall before, there’s a few tricks that make it a lot easierI'm getting a new 200 amp service in the garage. That should be useful. The house will be fed from that panel. There will be a 100 amp panel in the house.
I should be good for a while in the garage.
I'm getting a new 200 amp service in the garage. That should be useful. The house will be fed from that panel. There will be a 100 amp panel in the house.
I should be good for a while in the garage.
I put 200 into my old shop - a 30x20 garage at my old house, and the new shop came with 200. I've always been happy with that. Can't have too many electrons. My advice is to go as big as you can.
If you are drywalling, then I'd put as many outlets in as practical and also run half as many 220 outlets as you have 115V outlets. If you use 3 wire 220V Romex for all of them you can reduce the number of 220v outlets (and add them later if needed) AND you can reduce the amount of wire needed by splitting the 220 for the 115 Outlets (think kitchen split receptacles) which can also give you 220 if ever needed down the road and also gives you more outlets for the wire. (costs more for the wire per foot but less wire is needed per circuit). But most importantly, those future 220V needs will thank you eternally!
Also, wire in at least two 50Amp welder outlets (on different walls), and don't let them run two wire circuits to them - run the neutral wire there too. Even if the neutral isn't needed at the welder outlet, you will be glad it's there if you ever need to install a small panel box for lower current supplies or even a higher current 115 (20 or 30Amp).
Last, but not least, don't let your electrician load up the circuits to code. Leave some room for future additions and keep in mind that garage/shop loads are often a lot higher than three rooms in the house.
In other words, plan for much more than you think you will ever need. Bigger gauge wire will never hurt you, but wire that's too small will. Too many outlets is never a problem but not enough sure is. 220 you never use is no big deal but no 220 when you need it is a huge problem. Etc etc.
I personally don't like the idea of wiring to the minimum standards allowed by code. I prefer to go up the scale a bit. Run 12g where 14g is allowed, run fewer boxes per breaker than allowed, don't mix lights and outlets on the same breaker, etc etc.
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trlvn
Ultra Member
I've been doing some drywalling the last few days and all I can say is that it confirms that I was right to become an accountant!
Craig
Chicken lights
Forum Pony Express Driver
It’s easy, with the right tools and some experience. Panel lifter, Dremel with a drywall bit, drywall rasp, drywall saw and a T square. Do the ceiling first then the walls. Try to get as many factory edges to mate. Hang a sheet, then use the Dremel to cut out any electrical boxes or fixtures. Then finish screwing it down. The more time you spend doing a good job hanging the sheets, makes the tapers job 100x easier
trlvn
Ultra Member
Yeah, it is the mudding part I suck at. My late brother was really good at it and used to help me out when I needed it. He wasn't a great teacher, though, and I never learned myself.
Thank goodness I'm just doing a storage room 'cause it is turning out UGLY.
Craig
I watched a series of videos on Youtube. It all looks so easy when a pro is slinging the mud around.
@Perry I just saw this thread. Tons of good advice. I might suggest that all bench or wall receptacles be 20 amp. I have found that a lot of tools are rated at 13 amps but if bogged a bit, can exceed the 15 breaker rating. I have a Lincoln 120 volt Mig unit and it often blows the 15 amp breaker so I have to ensure that it is plugged into the only 20 amp breaker I have in that area (not that I use it much). For me, 240 outlets at 15 or 20 amp are handy too but depends on what you get into it. I have found I have had to add a few, meaning surface mount conduit or BX or Tec cable. It is a shop so ok but not as nice as planning ahead. My tablesaw can run on 120 but does better on 240 so it has a receptacle centralized for that and one 240 15 amp by the door which accommodates several different tools that have appeared over the years. The new metal lathe required 240 vac 15 amp (never saw that coming when I built the garage many years ago) so another surface mount run nor did I see a 30 amp 240 vac compressor going where I put the receptacle for the 15 amp 240 volt receptacle.
Power bars work great for bench lights, chargers, cordless phone bases, shop radio, pencil sharpener, etc....items that don't draw much power but all take a receptacle spot up. Larger hand grinders (ie 5 inch or 7 inch) might blow a power bar circuit breaker though so that should have its own receptacle. 20 amp wire is #12 and is not much more $$ than #14. The receptacles cost a bit more. And if you have a receptacle 120 vac 20 wire feeding it, and decide you need 240 15 or 20 amp, you can just swap in a split receptacle and change the receptacle and now have a 240 20 outlet there. Try not to put too many receptacles on one breaker. The code in Ontario is 13 per breaker iirc. As mentioned earlier, if usually only you in the shop, you will probably only run one tool at a time but get a buddy to help and you might be running extension cords to grab another circuit somewhere if you keep blowing breakers. If you are going to wire it yourself, try to have an idea of what the inspectors want to see in that area. Having dealt with a few, they tend to focus on a few things, ie the loop near the box to ensure no tension on the wire, no two lumex under one staple, despite the fact you can buy 2 lumex (cable) staples, nice neat runs into the electrical box, labelled (just a good idea). The neater your work, the nicer he will be (my experience) . I have had one say it is ok to use the friction connection (just plug wire into) on the back of the receptacle and others want a twisted loop around the screw). I have no experience in Alberta but have done garages and a couple of houses in Ontario so my info might not apply where you are. I too have a 200 amp service on my garage at the cottage and a 100 amp panel in the cottage. We had the power to the garage first so we could live in it while we built the cottage.
Receptacles mounted on the front of the bench are my preferred (if the benchtop overhangs enough to protect the receptacles with plugs ) versus having the cord run to the wall behind the bench. On my welding bench, I put 2 receptacles joined by BX cable there. I often have 3 grinders plugged in but only use one at a time and it keeps the bench top free.
Fun part of the planning. Only you know how you work but getting ideas from others is great! Hope my 2 cents helps.
Cheers,
Power bars work great for bench lights, chargers, cordless phone bases, shop radio, pencil sharpener, etc....items that don't draw much power but all take a receptacle spot up. Larger hand grinders (ie 5 inch or 7 inch) might blow a power bar circuit breaker though so that should have its own receptacle. 20 amp wire is #12 and is not much more $$ than #14. The receptacles cost a bit more. And if you have a receptacle 120 vac 20 wire feeding it, and decide you need 240 15 or 20 amp, you can just swap in a split receptacle and change the receptacle and now have a 240 20 outlet there. Try not to put too many receptacles on one breaker. The code in Ontario is 13 per breaker iirc. As mentioned earlier, if usually only you in the shop, you will probably only run one tool at a time but get a buddy to help and you might be running extension cords to grab another circuit somewhere if you keep blowing breakers. If you are going to wire it yourself, try to have an idea of what the inspectors want to see in that area. Having dealt with a few, they tend to focus on a few things, ie the loop near the box to ensure no tension on the wire, no two lumex under one staple, despite the fact you can buy 2 lumex (cable) staples, nice neat runs into the electrical box, labelled (just a good idea). The neater your work, the nicer he will be (my experience) . I have had one say it is ok to use the friction connection (just plug wire into) on the back of the receptacle and others want a twisted loop around the screw). I have no experience in Alberta but have done garages and a couple of houses in Ontario so my info might not apply where you are. I too have a 200 amp service on my garage at the cottage and a 100 amp panel in the cottage. We had the power to the garage first so we could live in it while we built the cottage.
Receptacles mounted on the front of the bench are my preferred (if the benchtop overhangs enough to protect the receptacles with plugs ) versus having the cord run to the wall behind the bench. On my welding bench, I put 2 receptacles joined by BX cable there. I often have 3 grinders plugged in but only use one at a time and it keeps the bench top free.
Fun part of the planning. Only you know how you work but getting ideas from others is great! Hope my 2 cents helps.
Cheers,
@Perry I did not see @Johnwa 's post till I posted. That is a great way of doing it too! Similar to my suggestion but you already have the double breaker for future considerations of 240 at the breaker rating, be it 15 or 20 amp. You just won't use the neutral wire if go to 240 but it can be insulated at both ends.
Wow, lots of info here.
@Chicken lights Yes, I will be drywalling myself. Not a professional but I have done it before. I'm not as fast as the pros but I do good work. I even do the mudding and taping with success. Just slow.
@Susquatch "use 3 wire 220V Romex" Great idea.
"run the neutral wire there too" Yes, I read that in my research about the EV plugs. The NEMA14-50 has a neutral. The plug that was popular before this (I forgot the standard) did not have the neutral. Makes for an issue to upgrade at a later point. Plus you can always pull 120V off of it if need be.
Thank-you
@trlvn "I've been doing some drywalling the last few days and all I can say is that it confirms that I was right to become an accountant!"
I hung one sheet of drywall on the ceiling by myself ( where the furnace will be installed). Only dropped the sheet once. I must be out of shape, those 5/8 sheets feel heavier then they use to be. I will be using a lift when the time comes. Just didn't want to get it for the one sheet.
@Johnwa "3 wires off a 2x15 amp breaker" - Common thread here.
Sometimes I use my shop vac with my CNC mill in the basement. I noticed if the shop vac and the mill are on the same circuit I can have the
mill (CNC) miss random steps. I always use two separate circuits now when I use the two together.
@ShawnR More great advise.
I will keep the thread updated as I go.
All I can do now is read and plan while I wait the for the electrical and gas to be finished off. Presenlty scheduled for November 17th.
Thank you again gentlemen.
@Chicken lights Yes, I will be drywalling myself. Not a professional but I have done it before. I'm not as fast as the pros but I do good work. I even do the mudding and taping with success. Just slow.
@Susquatch "use 3 wire 220V Romex" Great idea.
"run the neutral wire there too" Yes, I read that in my research about the EV plugs. The NEMA14-50 has a neutral. The plug that was popular before this (I forgot the standard) did not have the neutral. Makes for an issue to upgrade at a later point. Plus you can always pull 120V off of it if need be.
Thank-you
@trlvn "I've been doing some drywalling the last few days and all I can say is that it confirms that I was right to become an accountant!"
I hung one sheet of drywall on the ceiling by myself ( where the furnace will be installed). Only dropped the sheet once.
I must be out of shape, those 5/8 sheets feel heavier then they use to be. I will be using a lift when the time comes. Just didn't want to get it for the one sheet.@Johnwa "3 wires off a 2x15 amp breaker" - Common thread here.
Sometimes I use my shop vac with my CNC mill in the basement. I noticed if the shop vac and the mill are on the same circuit I can have the
mill (CNC) miss random steps. I always use two separate circuits now when I use the two together.
@ShawnR More great advise.
I will keep the thread updated as I go.
All I can do now is read and plan while I wait the for the electrical and gas to be finished off. Presenlty scheduled for November 17th.
Thank you again gentlemen.
This would terrify me. Nice that you noticed it though. I think most of us would mess up a thousand parts before we realized what was happening.
Most likely you are either dropping voltage or getting noise on the circuit. A bigger gauge wire, shorter run, and sometimes just the quality of the wiring connections would fix the former and a line filter would fix the latter.
In any event, I'd be trying to find and fix the root problem.
I'm pretty sure it is a noise issue. I have a second vacuum that does not cause the issue.(Yet...lol) The larger shop vac seems to be the only one that does it. (could be a voltage drop with the larger unit.)
It was pretty random and it hardly ever did it. It took some time and slowly I realized it would only happen when I was using the shop vac to remove chips while I was milling/ (always on.....not turning the vac on and off).
Something online made me try a second circuit for the vac and presto, never happened since.
Very hard thing to troubleshoot when the fault is so inconsistent.
I'm in Calgary. I did a check with a meter and seen no issues. The problem is the problem is so intermittent.
I also own a scope, but never hooked it up. I also own a meter that can sample and log the readings over a longer time frame. Never hooked it up either.
The first winter it happened twice. The second winter once. It was the third winter I had a few in a row and figured something was up. I've had a few seasons (10+ years) now of no issues now either using a different vacuum or using a separate circuit. I'm not 100% sure I have it isolated but my money is on the vacuum.
The problem is getting it to fail consistently to prove it. I could go back to the original setup to see if it faults, but that could just lead to a messed up project.
I also own a scope, but never hooked it up. I also own a meter that can sample and log the readings over a longer time frame. Never hooked it up either.
The first winter it happened twice. The second winter once. It was the third winter I had a few in a row and figured something was up. I've had a few seasons (10+ years) now of no issues now either using a different vacuum or using a separate circuit. I'm not 100% sure I have it isolated but my money is on the vacuum.
The problem is getting it to fail consistently to prove it. I could go back to the original setup to see if it faults, but that could just lead to a messed up project.
I see. Sounds like it's maybe not worth worrying about then.
Usually (but not always), when problems are intermittent like that it's a marginality issue. In other words, the equipment with the failure has some resistance to the problem and only fails when the problem gets bad or when the good and bad signals coincide. One look with a Scope will tell you if the vacuum is generating unusual noise that could be causing intermittent problems. It's not very often that a machine generates intermittent noise. It's usually either noisy or not. Same goes with drop.
Anyway, sometimes it's best to just be happy with what works and move on.
Usually (but not always), when problems are intermittent like that it's a marginality issue. In other words, the equipment with the failure has some resistance to the problem and only fails when the problem gets bad or when the good and bad signals coincide. One look with a Scope will tell you if the vacuum is generating unusual noise that could be causing intermittent problems. It's not very often that a machine generates intermittent noise. It's usually either noisy or not. Same goes with drop.
Anyway, sometimes it's best to just be happy with what works and move on.
Dabbler
ersatz engineer
@Perry It might help to put a line filter on the input side of your CNC mill...
It is common practice and it can't hurt. Some of the better power bars have line filtering built in - they're just torroids with wire wrapped around them to inhibit high frequency noise, with some capacitors to help with other forms of noise. You can make then yourself, but choosing values for the components isn't for a novice.
THe MOVs in a power bar can help absorb transient spikes, which is what a large vaccuum specializes in creating fron the brush arcs.
It is a failry cheap thing to try that won't waste your money.
It is common practice and it can't hurt. Some of the better power bars have line filtering built in - they're just torroids with wire wrapped around them to inhibit high frequency noise, with some capacitors to help with other forms of noise. You can make then yourself, but choosing values for the components isn't for a novice.
THe MOVs in a power bar can help absorb transient spikes, which is what a large vaccuum specializes in creating fron the brush arcs.
It is a failry cheap thing to try that won't waste your money.