Electric panel questions.

[Susquatch]

Oh the stories I could tell about RV wiring and RV Park wiring..... Nobody knows what they are doing there!

 

[Dabbler]

I was at a garage sale where the guy was selling an RV extension/hookup cord -- using a connector that was delisted over 12 years ago, but apparently still in use in Alberta. He offered me a great deal, and I told him it wasn't code any more he indignantly told me he used it a few months ago at [RV park name redacted]

The grandfathering clause expired at least 5 years ago!!!

You aren't even allowed to buy that connector anywhere in Canada any more! (so people buy them on Amazon, and this cable was very cheap offshore. (so how does all this contribute to safety, he ponders...)

 

[Susquatch]

I was at a garage sale where the guy was selling an RV extension/hookup cord -- using a connector that was delisted over 12 years ago, but apparently still in use in Alberta. He offered me a great deal, and I told him it wasn't code any more he indignantly told me he used it a few months ago at [RV park name redacted]

The grandfathering clause expired at least 5 years ago!!!

You aren't even allowed to buy that connector anywhere in Canada any more! (so people buy them on Amazon, and this cable was very cheap offshore. (so how does all this contribute to safety, he ponders...)

I saw some just like it at an RV sales place while I was there buying a love-seat lawn chair for my bride and I. (She loves to cuddle around a campfire.)

There were a dozen hazards there including several home-made ones that they put together themselves that were being openly sold to anyone interested.

Truthfully, there are some very handy people in the RV world, but there are also a gazillion others who don't own a Screwdriver.

And then there are all those power posts at the trailer park at "nofish lake"......

Ever look at the panel box on the side of the utility shed at one of those parks. ......

@Dabbler - how long and what gauge was the cable? I might have bought it and put new connectors on it or used it for something else. That would at least stop someone else from using it.

 

[Dabbler]

@Susquatch It was the delisted 30Amp cable with the diagonal blades and the cable was a flex I'd say 12 gauge - yes it would have burrnt up eventually...

 

[Susquatch]

@Dabbler - I see. You are prolly right.

 

[Perry]

How many of you have seen a power tool with a factory 120V 20 plug?

I was just wondering if it is worth the effort to install the 120 20 amp plugs? I personally have never seen a tool that required that .....yet.....let me finish the drywall.


Electrical inspection tomorrow. (or actually today....12:07 am) Anywhere between 8:00 am and 5:00 pm.

I have a list of questions. Might as well ask the inspector. Maybe I'll be one step ahead when I get my permit.

Thank you for the input from all of you.

 

[Dabbler]

I was just wondering if it is worth the effort to install the 120 20 amp plugs

My view is this for almost exactly the same price, you can install a 20A breaker, 2A plugs - the 12 Ga wire is more expensive, but I found out that I'd prefer 20A plugs instead of 15A. This is your wiring for 20 years, not just for the near future. I've burnt out 3 cheap 15A duplex receptacles over the years. I hate to fix my electrics once in place.

If I did it over:

...my walls are all about 25 feet...

1) I'd put 3 duplex 20A receptacles per wall, (sides and back) the top ones on one circuit, the bottom ones on the other. This is just for hand power tools. at 4 feet off the floor.
2) I'd also put 3 duplex 20A receptacles in the ceiling on another circuit.
3) I'd also put a single 15A 110V duplex right at the breaker. (near the floor standard height)

4)Then I'd wire one 220V 20A circuit as twist lock, 3 receptacles - one by the breaker panel, one in each corner about 6 feet from the corner. (extension cords work well for this part)
5) I'd also wire 2 220V50A stove plugs along the back of the garage, 8 feet from the breaker panel, and 16 feet from the panel. 3 feet from the floor.

Oh and 2 separate switched lighting circuits on 15A breakers.

The way to pass inspection is that all the plugs above 15" off the floor are for workbenches' potential location(s).

This would do you for almost any long term needs, and additional wiring will be minimal.

 

[Susquatch]

My view is this for almost exactly the same price, you can install a 20A breaker, 2A plugs - the 12 Ga wire is more expensive, but I found out that I'd prefer 20A plugs instead of 15A. This is your wiring for 20 years, not just for the near future. I've burnt out 3 cheap 15A duplex receptacles over the years. I hate to fix my electrics once in place.

If I did it over:

...my walls are all about 25 feet...

1) I'd put 3 duplex 20A receptacles per wall, (sides and back) the top ones on one circuit, the bottom ones on the other. This is just for hand power tools. at 4 feet off the floor.
2) I'd also put 3 duplex 20A receptacles in the ceiling on another circuit.
3) I'd also put a single 15A 110V duplex right at the breaker. (near the floor standard height)

4)Then I'd wire one 220V 20A circuit as twist lock, 3 receptacles - one by the breaker panel, one in each corner about 6 feet from the corner. (extension cords work well for this part)
5) I'd also wire 2 220V50A stove plugs along the back of the garage, 8 feet from the breaker panel, and 16 feet from the panel. 3 feet from the floor.

Oh and 2 separate switched lighting circuits on 15A breakers.

The way to pass inspection is that all the plugs above 15" off the floor are for workbenches' potential location(s).

This would do you for almost any long term needs, and additional wiring will be minimal.p

My kinda thinking @Dabbler!

Hey @Perry, I especially love @Dabbler 's ceiling outlet thoughts! Nothing beats a cord drop over cords on the floor for equipment located away from the walls. You can always put a cord relief hook (or several for a cord run) in later. I wish I had that!

And don't forget an outlet for the future overhead door opener!

I'd add another stove outlet at the front so you can weld or whatever on the driveway.

 

[Dabbler]

I'd add another stove outlet at the front so you can weld or whatever on the driveway.

I have one of those, but I find I use my 75 foot welding extension cable more.

I should add that I have a laneway at back, so I don't have a lane facing outdoor receptacle. I do have a yard one toward my house, however. Now's the time to install those as well!

 

[PeterT]

If your ceiling is open to the extent you are considering running in some ceiling outlets, I would do it now. Because crawling into the roof wedge of a finished attic to do wiring work is a PITA. You can use ceiling outlets for impromptu lights or whatever. Often its a shorter length & may not interfere with cabinets shelves or more plug-ins down below. Typical use as others mentioned - garage door openers, ceiling mount heaters, fans... things like that. Sorry I don't know any of the code implications. Also a switch/light in the attic area can sure make life easier if you are storing seasonal stuff up there. Beats crawling around with a flashlight in your mouth or miners headlamp.

 

[Tom O]

I’ll never have a door opener having a detached garage at the back I’d worry about the buttons getting pressed or young ones playing with the buttons And if I put a outlet to the back alley I’d have a off switch in the garage like I have for the two led lights next to the garage door.

 

[Perry]

Well inspection day came and went yesterday. Only one finding. Ground required between main mast and data mast.

Wednesday the 17th is Enmax switch over and the electricians should finish up. The gas and furnace install should also be completed on the same day. Getting closer. Slow and steady.


I like the idea of the ceiling outlets. This will happen. I already have the two for the garage door openers outlets on the ceiling, but there will be three more on a 20 amp circuit now.


My original Nema14-50 plug (240V 50 amp) had me figuring that I need to use 6 gauge wire. The electrician mentioned I only needed 8 gauge. While talking to the inspector he mentioned the 8 gauge is only rated at 55 amps and I would need 6 gauge. He also stated to be careful when purchasing the 6 gauge. He said a lot of the stuff that goes on sale is only rated at 60C. (Black) I need to look the for the 6 gauge rated at 75C (White). Does this sound correct?

 

[Dabbler]

Does this sound correct?

First - it doesn't matter. Always do what the inspector recommends. He can legally come back later and fail you. It happened only once in rumour, for a colleague of my former electrician friend. Very rare.

Second. It won't hurt to be 6 gauge. More money by the foot, but better. I think my 50 A is 8 gauge 75C, but I can check if you wish. It is not against code to be one wire size bigger.

What was the run length, because this matters. for a long run it is always recommended to go up one gauge size, but I don't have a copy of the CEC handy so I cannot tell what that run length is.

For electrical I go for the best I can afford so I'm pretty careful about sales. The black coated 60C cable is meant for going in hostile environments (well in the days I did a lot of wiring).

 

[Perry]

Thank you Dabbler. I figured if the inspector recommendeds 6 gauge I better stick to that even if the electrician told me I was ok with 8 gauge. The white vs black was something I had no idea about.

The inspector also mentioned I could run a catwalk (plank along the attic joists) in the attic and run my cable along side of it. The only thing I seen for the attic runs was it had to be in an area of less then 1m of head space. This was a question I came up with when reading not to drill thru the joists.

The panel and the 240V 50 plug are on opposite walls. 24X24 garage So maybe 35' , up over and down.


On a side note I was offered a 240V compressor and sandblaster a couple weeks ago. I turned it down. The same gentleman now offered me the wiring that was installed for this unit. Not sure of the ratings on it, but there might be some cost saving here. Waiting for more details.


The second inspection was the same inspector as the first. Do they normally send the same inspector out until the permit is closed?

 

[Susquatch]

He also stated to be careful when purchasing the 6 gauge. He said a lot of the stuff that goes on sale is only rated at 60C. (Black) I need to look the for the 6 gauge rated at 75C (White). Does this sound correct?

Yes. The 50A outlets can be used for stoves and dryers that have 75C terminations. So the code requires 75C wire too. I'm a bit surprised that the inspector knew this. He is a sharp cookie.

I like @Dabbler 's advice - always do what the inspector wants. I like to remember that he is really there to protect you from yourself and shoddy electricians - lots of them around.

 

[Dabbler]

It if very unusual for the inspection to be handed off. you will have the same guy until you get approved.

 

[Perry]

shoddy electricians

and shoddy amatuers like myself!

 

[Perry]

This has been dragging on. This should be the final week. Wednesday Enmax and contractors should be here together. I'm sure they were waiting for the weather to get cold. Nobody likes to work when it's warm outside.

New question for you electrical types.

I have a few boxes mounted exterior for outdoor lighting on the garage. When talking to the inspector I had asked him if there was a height restriction for the light required outside the entrance (man) door. He said no and then went on to say......"don't forget that the box can not be used as a junction. Only wires into it for the light." This has me researching with no answers.

Do the wires have to terminate at this box? Last one in the run? All the other boxes will have to be the last in the run? I'm sure I missed something here.

P.

 

[Dabbler]

Your weatherproof box mounts on the outside or inside, depending on the design, and it must only have the connections for the light (or in other cases the plug). If you need to junction, you need to have an inside octagonal junction (accessible) on the inside to distribute the power to other external boxes..

 

[Susquatch]

You have me on that one @Dabbler ! That's a new one on me. I've never heard of that before. I have all kinds of lights outside that are in groups all wired together and mounted on junction boxes. An interior junction box for each one outside make no sense as junction boxes must never be buried. What if it was drywalled?

The only thing I can think of is a concern for corrosion. But seriously - one circuit per outside light? I can't see this one.

I'll check the Canadian code tomorrow