Gearhead88
Super User
Each electrical box is like a box of chocolates , you never know what you might get
CT 043 issues ..... Repairs - Completed !!
- Thread starter Gearhead88
- Start date
Drum switch and you'll never have to look in that electrical box again.............
Gearhead88
Super User
I used to have a text book , probably from a technical school or vocational college all about motors , I scoured the house and garage , gone , some dickhead swiped it
Gearhead88
Super User
I spoke with a master electrician on Friday and mentioned that I'm mulling over using a drum switch , he advised that there could be problems related to using one . We'll be speaking again and I'll find out if or if not this is a reasonable and safe route to take . I might go buy one of those switches at PA , they are $70 I think.
My mill / drill uses a drum switch
What HP are we talking here? Would you miss all the interlock crap or the jog function?
Gearhead88
Super User
The label on the motor says 2 HP as did the one I removed , however , the machine is advertised as having a 1.5 HP motor in the catalog , I still have one of the catalogs they used to print .
I've never used the jog function .
During this whole episode for the ease of getting at the motor I removed the chuck safety switch and the guard itself , purely for the convenience of working on the lathe , also , the belt guard / gear cover switch is removed .
I won't be putting either of those back on . I do not feel that the chuck guard is necessary in my situation , it's cheaply built and I never liked it anyways , having operated several lathes that never had one.
While the machine is down , I'm working on tightening up the forward / reverse linkage , it's kind of loose and flimsy after 17 + years of use ., the switches , at this point still work as intended.
If I had to use a drum switch to select forward or reverse , mounted in an alternate location and lose the carriage mounted fwd/rev switch , it wouldn't break my heart.
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LOVE THE GIF!!
I swiped it and you will probably see it again soon enough!
@YYCHM should copy it too. He is ALWAYS asking for pics!
My lathe does not have the gaurd. I've often thought about adding one to control chip fling. Then I realize it would soon be covered in sling oil and be useless. In a weird way, I'm kinda glad to hear you have one and won't be putting it back. Always nice to scratch something off of the potential project list.
If you were to replace all the wiring complexity with something simple as @YYCHM suggests, what functionality would you want to keep and what would you be happy to lose?
I ask this later question because I may be doing something similar down the road. I want to replace my single phase 2hp motor with a 3phase 3hp motor and vfd - primarily to get lower speed capability, but better speed control in higher ranges would be good too. So I'm just thinking ahead and noodling the issues. Your thread has been great food for thought.
Gearhead88
Super User
There's several ways this machine could be altered to eliminate some of the complexity , There have been some great suggestions so far .
I'd like to retain the "E" stop button and as already suggested use that to power up a single contactor , I'd also like a front control panel mounted master power switch to kill all power to the transformer and control circuits . The drum switch idea is favourable too for directional control , if it will work and be safe . I'm not sure what thermal overload protection this motor requires so I need to learn more about that . As far as re-wiring it goes , I'd be all over that and is well within my comfort zone , I just need to work out the details .
The 3 phase conversion with a VFD ? sounds like a good idea, however I have zero knowledge of how it works ? , what I'd need ? , how much it would cost ? . I do not know what VFD is .
Replacing everything that's wrecked with new components , not changing the layout or wiring scheme was what I was going to do initially and may still do if I can locate the correct parts.
I'd like to retain the "E" stop button and as already suggested use that to power up a single contactor , I'd also like a front control panel mounted master power switch to kill all power to the transformer and control circuits . The drum switch idea is favourable too for directional control , if it will work and be safe . I'm not sure what thermal overload protection this motor requires so I need to learn more about that . As far as re-wiring it goes , I'd be all over that and is well within my comfort zone , I just need to work out the details .
The 3 phase conversion with a VFD ? sounds like a good idea, however I have zero knowledge of how it works ? , what I'd need ? , how much it would cost ? . I do not know what VFD is .
Replacing everything that's wrecked with new components , not changing the layout or wiring scheme was what I was going to do initially and may still do if I can locate the correct parts.
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I'd either fix the problem, or go 3ph/vfd....you won't regret it. All your factory controls will integrate easy. On both my lathes, you'd never know a vfd was powering them, except for the speed control knobs.
The idea of fixing this problem with a drum switch is silly, in my mind. Its not a 1/2hp 1943 6" craftsman
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Former Member
Guest
I pulled off another site I visit that uses the same system for its forum.
I see.
Good list.
I basically agree with @dfloen. If it were mine, I'd either fix it and keep it original or go VFD. But heck, mine isn't even broken and I want to go VFD! So I'm not sure what my opinion is really worth. I'm so biased it is almost criminal......
A VFD has built in reverse. You just need a simple inexpensive SPDT switch. Certainly a better solution than a drum switch. But to go with that cheap switch you will need a new very expensive 3phase motor..... LOL!
You can get full shutoff with a wall switch. No power in = no power period.
Fools rush in where wise men fear to tread. The wise man in me says let someone else answer that question. The fool in me says here goes....
In the simplest terms I can muster. A VFD (Variable Frequency Drive) is a device that typically converts single phase input into a 3 phase output to drive a 3 phase motor. But with the wizardry of modern microcontrollers, a VFD can also change the output frequency and sequence to change the speed and direction of the motor. The end result is a lathe that will still run at all your mechanically set gear speeds and virtually anything in between. With the right motor, your minimum speed can be 1/10 it's current minimum and that is what really turns my crank!
All of his factory switches will control the VFD, no need for additional switches or shutoffs
Here's an overly complicated diagram of a v13 retrofit, which could be much simpler
That v13 diagram is for a motor with a brake. If you don't have a brake you don't even need the 24 power supply, relay etc. ,just a contactor to control master power to the vfd. Don't really need the fuses. The contactor can be switched via the Estop, although not recomended. A simple small toggle switch will work best. Then just the apron fwd/rev switch to the vfd
Converting to 3PH VFD doesn't have to break the bank. This was my basic outlay to convert my mill.
2 HP 3 PH motor $60 from Kijiji
4 HP VFD $75 from Amazon
Former Member
Guest
What most modern VFD do is also vary the voltage to keep current usage at the same level while the frequency changes, this is what allows the big ranges in rpm on the motor.
Mine (a Teco L510) goes way beyond that. It's amazing really. The unit measures current flow, phasing, voltage, and inductive feedback to measure and refine the output to provide very precise motor control. With a VFD ready motor, 1000:1 speed control is achievable. It's actually an amazing device!
