CT 043 issues ..... Repairs - Completed !!

[Darren]

Lets keep it simple. On a 240v motor, there will be two hot wires and a ground. disconnect the power cable where it comes into the cabinet, and hook the two hots to the two hot leads from the motor. When you flip the breaker, or plug in the cable, the motor, if its good, should spin. If it does, the power feed is good, and the motor is good, and we can move on to controls/contactors, etc.

 

[Gearhead88]

Lets keep it simple. On a 240v motor, there will be two hot wires and a ground. disconnect the power cable where it comes into the cabinet, and hook the two hots to the two hot leads from the motor. When you flip the breaker, or plug in the cable, the motor, if its good, should spin. If it does, the power feed is good, and the motor is good, and we can move on to controls/contactors, etc.

Thank's

There are four wires on this one , a ground and three more , this is where I get confused.

The wires are marked Z1 U2 Z2 & there is the ground

 

[Gearhead88]

What I did today ..........................

I removed the power cord from the electrical box , connected it to the old motor a couple of ways , it only ran in one direction .
I then connected the cord to the new motor and got nothing any way I tried to connect it.
I received new capacitors today , for now I'm gonna leave them in the package.

I have decided to bring in someone who's area of expertise is this kind of thing .

I'm a mechanic , I have been for a very long time , I have successfully repaired lots and lots of mechanical and electrical issues on all kinds of vehicles , my ratio of success to failure rate is proof I know my trade . This is not my trade , I'm venturing into unfamiliar territory with this. This type of thing is out of my wheelhouse , I'm un familiar with it and lacking in confidence .
Taking advice from random people on the internet is also something I'm not comfortable with.
Every electrical drawing I've found online is different than my machine , including the one that John posted of a CT 041 , my machine is not wired like that , it's almost like the little yellow man wires this crap randomly , each one being unique in layout and components used.
What I did do during the process of trying to repair this is make my own wiring diagram . How the contactors work is still a mystery , I am unable to operate the on / off switch while using my meter , I only have two arthritic hands. Also , because I don't work on this sort of equipment I have zero knowledge on how to test a capacitor .

Like Scotty said on the enterprise " I'm a mechanic Jim , not a magician"

I must thank everyone for participating up till now

 

[Darren]

What I did today ..........................

I removed the power cord from the electrical box , connected it to the old motor a couple of ways , it only ran in one direction .
I then connected the cord to the new motor and got nothing any way I tried to connect it.
I received new capacitors today , for now I'm gonna leave them in the package.

I have decided to bring in someone who's area of expertise is this kind of thing .

I'm a mechanic , I have been for a very long time , I have successfully repaired lots and lots of mechanical and electrical issues on all kinds of vehicles , my ratio of success to failure rate is proof I know my trade . This is not my trade , I'm venturing into unfamiliar territory with this. This type of thing is out of my wheelhouse , I'm un familiar with it and lacking in confidence .
Taking advice from random people on the internet is also something I'm not comfortable with.
Every electrical drawing I've found online is different than my machine , including the one that John posted of a CT 041 , my machine is not wired like that , it's almost like the little yellow man wires this crap randomly , each one being unique in layout and components used.
What I did do during the process of trying to repair this is make my own wiring diagram . How the contactors work is still a mystery , I am unable to operate the on / off switch while using my meter , I only have two arthritic hands. Also , because I don't work on this sort of equipment I have zero knowledge on how to test a capacitor .

Like Scotty said on the enterprise " I'm a mechanic Jim , not a magician"

I must thank everyone for participating up till now

I'm a fellow auto tech.

The contactors are relays, and work exactly the same. The coil pulls in the contacts.

 

[Gearhead88]

I'm a fellow auto tech.

The contactors are relays, and work exactly the same. The coil pulls in the contacts.

I partially disassembled one of the contactors to look inside , you can only go so far without breaking something so I stopped and put it back together , I was looking for burned contacts or obvious damage , I was unable to open it up far enough to see the contacts .
I've only worked on this in short intervals because it pisses me off and I've got other things to do that are progressing as planned and are more stimulating than dicking around with this lathe.

 

[Darren]

Also, most contactors can be manually engaged for testing. So you could test their current carrying capability by putting the contacts inline between the cord and motor, for testing purposes, and close the contacts manually.

 

[Gearhead88]

If I could afford it , I'd get rid of this lathe , get a better one & be done with all of this BS , for the record , the last place I'd buy one is BBT

 

[deleted_user]

BigCliveDotCom did a tear down of these contactors if you want to have a closer look and then try again

 

[terry_g]

I have the same lathe which I purchased in 2009. It has never given me a problem.
When I bought it BB tools had a freight subsidy and paid around 70% of the freight.
A consideration when you live 1400 kilometres north of Vancouver. If I had any issues
with the electrical I would try to source a drum switch like I had on my 10K Southbend lathe
and replace the Craftex electrics with that.

Amazon.ca

 

[YYCHM]

I have the same lathe which I purchased in 2009. It has never given me a problem.
When I bought it BB tools had a freight subsidy and paid around 70% of the freight.
A consideration when you live 1400 kilometres north of Vancouver. If I had any issues
with the electrical I would try to source a drum switch like I had on my 10K Southbend lathe
and replace the Craftex electrics with that.

Amazon.ca

That's a heck of a good idea IMHO....

https://www.princessauto.com/en/2-hp-electric-motor-reversing-switch/product/PA0008078693

 

[Darren]

VFD is for 3 phase motors. If the new motor can be exchanged for a 3 phase motor, thats the way i'd go. one contactor to power up vfd, vfd powers 3ph motor, lathe controls will control inputs to vfd

 

[Tom Kitta]

The problem is that the electrical work in the lathe is so confusing for people not familiar with these lathes that the average person can't work on them. I doubt that gearhead really would be up to that task.

I have seen so many people have issues with the 043 that I wonder how BB remained in business. I know at any given time someone is on a forum calling for help

At this point with two apparently dead motors or at least partially dead motors and who knows what issues with the contactors I'd bite the bullet and gut the thing, and then rewire a with a couple of simple circuits to run estop button and the other safeties and then activate a single 220 v contactor that would power external VFD. Then wire the motor from there. Speed and directional inputs via the VFD ports.

BB just ignores the warranty. Easy solution

Why get motors from BB? If money is not an issue get motors from other places or used off auctions or even I probably have one or two hanging around. Main issue is reversing - PA motors in 1ph are all reversing AFAIK. I wired reversing for motors before, it can be confusing, especially when you make a mistake.

 

[terry_g]

The wiring diagrams on electric motors are awful.

 

[Gearhead88]

Eventually this Lathe will run again , it was a pleasure to use , when it ran and always produced nice parts .

The electrical is a joke and the product support from BBT is terrible.

I'm not sure what is going to happen to repair it just yet but If it makes anyone feel better , I am finding inspiration in the comments and suggestions .
Now , if I had enough experience to make a good decision on which direction to take.

 

[Gearhead88]

True.

But almost all 220 reversing motors are wired the same way...

L and N connect to U1 and U2 respectively. The confusion lies in reverse.... you not only swap the L and N leads but the Z1 and V1 leads reverse as well....

I'm voting for this comment as the best explanation today

 

[YYCHM]

 

[Gearhead88]

View attachment 20363

I think I have that same Mill / Drill or one very similar to it . Funny thing is , the motor on it is the same part # as my new lathe motor but it's 110 volt and it has a fwd / rev. drum switch

 

[Gearhead88]

I'm liking the drum switch idea

 

[Darren]

the only issue with the drum switch is that any safety interlocks will likely be defeated, and they are not nearly as safe or reliable as contactors.

 

[Darren]

You brought 110 to a gunfight?

I have had two old cast iron dewalt radial arm saws with dual voltage motors, they both came to me wired 110, and I immediately wired for 220v.

Less chance overheating IMO

I see 220 in his pic? besides, it doesn't matter for this discussion. Neutral can be exhanged for L2, its the internal connections that change.