I wish I’d known that before I welded 2mm steel, I thought I just sucked- which is probably true too…
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What kind of welding machines you guys have ? Anyone got a Miller multimatic 220?
- Thread starter MW/MC
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I laughed at that. But Ya, that puts it in good perspective for me.
Heck, I don't even like cranking down on an ER collet WITHIN its range!
But when you weld as poorly as I do....... Almost anything that sticks together is a big success.
Dabbler
ersatz engineer
Do it with my Miller 250 - just turn the voltage and feed waaaay down.
To clarify-
1 - I'm a self-taught welder and far from knowledgeable about welding limitations
2 - I think we are talking about stick welding here (Shielded Metal Arc Welding or SMAW) not wire feed (MIG)
3 - a practical minimum thickness for normal stick (SMAG) welding is 1/8" material
4 - using the smallest electrodes + lowest machine voltage + experience & practice --you can get good results stick welding 1/16 " thick material (a continuous weld bead, not just stitch welding). But to clarify - this comment applies to fillet or lap joints - not to butt joints. Butt joints on thin materials are very difficult with stick welding.
1 - I'm a self-taught welder and far from knowledgeable about welding limitations
2 - I think we are talking about stick welding here (Shielded Metal Arc Welding or SMAW) not wire feed (MIG)
3 - a practical minimum thickness for normal stick (SMAG) welding is 1/8" material
4 - using the smallest electrodes + lowest machine voltage + experience & practice --you can get good results stick welding 1/16 " thick material (a continuous weld bead, not just stitch welding). But to clarify - this comment applies to fillet or lap joints - not to butt joints. Butt joints on thin materials are very difficult with stick welding.
Former Member
Guest
Recently I met a fellow that was a retired welder for CN Railways, who was taught by his dad.
All he welds with is Stick. This includes thin sheet metal (ie car body panels, including the super thin stuff we have today) and Aluminium (didn't believe that at first and had to double check after he left).
It comes down to the skill of the welder pure and simple. Some have the knack, some don't.
I may have the knack but definitely not the skill so I'll stick with TIG for almost everything and try Stick for the heavy dirty stuff.
All he welds with is Stick. This includes thin sheet metal (ie car body panels, including the super thin stuff we have today) and Aluminium (didn't believe that at first and had to double check after he left).
It comes down to the skill of the welder pure and simple. Some have the knack, some don't.
I may have the knack but definitely not the skill so I'll stick with TIG for almost everything and try Stick for the heavy dirty stuff.
historicalarms
Ultra Member
Ive watched my old man (self taught welder) weld thin stuff (farm & construction equipment hoods & such) with a 450 amp Hobart ( from U.S Navy war surplus) turned waaaay down and using common steel clothes hanger for rod....I could never get the hang of it but watched him many times weld a perfect bead with that outfit.
Experience is so very important to continually improve your skill.
That CN welder’s ability didn’t come easy and are very impressive. I’d say he qualifies as an expert stick welder. For most of us mortals- stick welding 1/16”materials would be an amazing achievement.
Time and money are both assets that you can spend (or waste).
It takes time and money to become smart enough to be an expert in your field.
A good friend of mine (that was considered an expert in his field) would say” I don’t know how smart I can afford to get”
That CN welder’s ability didn’t come easy and are very impressive. I’d say he qualifies as an expert stick welder. For most of us mortals- stick welding 1/16”materials would be an amazing achievement.
Time and money are both assets that you can spend (or waste).
It takes time and money to become smart enough to be an expert in your field.
A good friend of mine (that was considered an expert in his field) would say” I don’t know how smart I can afford to get”
Dan Dubeau
Ultra Member
6013 rod is great for thin sheet metal. The numbers actually mean something and there are many different rods for many different purposes, positions and materials.
https://workshopinsider.com/a-guide-to-6010-6011-6013-and-7018-welding-rods/
I have some 3/32 6013 that came with my buzz box that works great on thin sheet metal. Welding thin stuff out in the yard, is much easier with my long stick leads, than the short whip on my mig. I don't have space in my shop to bring large projects in. No shielding gas issues either. It's a handy arrow to have in your quiver whenever the needs arises, and IMO really isn't that hard if you have the right rod, machine setup, and fundamental skills (properly observing the puddle and it's behavior as you weld no matter the rod/wire or process).
https://workshopinsider.com/a-guide-to-6010-6011-6013-and-7018-welding-rods/
I have some 3/32 6013 that came with my buzz box that works great on thin sheet metal. Welding thin stuff out in the yard, is much easier with my long stick leads, than the short whip on my mig. I don't have space in my shop to bring large projects in. No shielding gas issues either. It's a handy arrow to have in your quiver whenever the needs arises, and IMO really isn't that hard if you have the right rod, machine setup, and fundamental skills (properly observing the puddle and it's behavior as you weld no matter the rod/wire or process).
I don't leave Praxair/lide/alpine gas with less than 1000$ worth of rod every few months, so I have some experience when it comes to stick welding
I 60% agree with @CWret, stick is not anywhere near ideal for thin materials, your not going to want to weld a fender on your Buick with it, but welding say a mower deck and all you have is a stick welder, sure, 3/32 or smaller (yes they do make 1/16 rod), cruise, and don't get greedy. You can be sure to have plenty of penetration at the least.
That being said....I would never recommend a hobbyist buy a stick welder for his first or only machine, even if it's cheaper....the cost of rod alone will destroy any savings (rod has more than doubled in price in the last 5 years), MIG is really the more useful and go to process for most garage projects
But hey, use what you got, and if you already have a DC stick welder....you're a torch and bottle of gas away from having Tig (yes any DC stick welder is a Tig welder)
I 60% agree with @CWret, stick is not anywhere near ideal for thin materials, your not going to want to weld a fender on your Buick with it, but welding say a mower deck and all you have is a stick welder, sure, 3/32 or smaller (yes they do make 1/16 rod), cruise, and don't get greedy. You can be sure to have plenty of penetration at the least.
That being said....I would never recommend a hobbyist buy a stick welder for his first or only machine, even if it's cheaper....the cost of rod alone will destroy any savings (rod has more than doubled in price in the last 5 years), MIG is really the more useful and go to process for most garage projects
But hey, use what you got, and if you already have a DC stick welder....you're a torch and bottle of gas away from having Tig (yes any DC stick welder is a Tig welder)
Dan Dubeau
Ultra Member
6013 rod is great for thin sheet metal. The numbers actually mean something and there are many different rods for many different purposes.
https://workshopinsider.com/a-guide-to-6010-6011-6013-and-7018-welding-rods/
I have some 3/32 6013 that came with my buzz box that works great on thin sheet metal. Welding thin stuff out in the yard, is much easier with my long stick leads, than the short whip on my mig. No shielding gas issues either. I don't have space in my shop to bring large projects in. It's a handy arrow to have in your quiver whenever the needs arises, and IMO really isn't that hard if you have the right rod, machine setup, and fundamental skills (properly observing the puddle and it's behavior as you weld no matter the rod/wire or process).
https://workshopinsider.com/a-guide-to-6010-6011-6013-and-7018-welding-rods/
I have some 3/32 6013 that came with my buzz box that works great on thin sheet metal. Welding thin stuff out in the yard, is much easier with my long stick leads, than the short whip on my mig. No shielding gas issues either. I don't have space in my shop to bring large projects in. It's a handy arrow to have in your quiver whenever the needs arises, and IMO really isn't that hard if you have the right rod, machine setup, and fundamental skills (properly observing the puddle and it's behavior as you weld no matter the rod/wire or process).
Coming back to welding after a 40 year break… I’m finding my latest difficulty is that I can no longer hold the welding rod anywhere near as steady as when I was learning as a teenager. Now I actually have to “make myself comfortable”.
I can see that eventually (maybe even soon…) , I’ll need to make up some form of contraption to support my hand that I can slide it along.
I can see that eventually (maybe even soon…) , I’ll need to make up some form of contraption to support my hand that I can slide it along.
140mower
Don
It sucks getting old doesn't it...... Now the "weave" comes natural and puddle control has a whole new meaning......
Have read that it was pretty common, in the earlier days of electric welding, to roll newspaper around the bare rods as a cellulosic coating. Figure to give it a try some time. It'll either fall in the category of stupid welder tricks, or it will become just another rabbit to pull outta the hat when needed!
<cough cough>My name is Trevor, and I have a welder problem....
Right now, I am down to 3 welding machines. I have a Miller 250HF, ac/dc welding machine that has a water cooler on it, an Acklands branded Miller 225D Bobcat, with a TIG HF box and an air cooled torch, a little Miller 110v MIG machine with gas, and have a Lincoln LN-25 suitcase MIG unit I can hook on to either of my bigger power sources. Been trying to set all my connections on cables and the like, up, so I can run what I need, linked together, for when I need the reach.
Currently mucking about with setting the 250HF up as a water cooled TIG machine with a 20 Torch, and a foot pedal. Really want AC TIG for fixing aluminum irrigation pipe! But I use it for stick when I am working in the shop with the doors closed. The diesel Bobcat is pretty loud, so it does outdoor stuff and sits in the doorway when the weather is nice enough. The LN-25 came with an ex-rental Red-D-Arc gasoline welder, that I got for a decent price as a package, and then sold on.
Proxule
Ultra Member
Swap polarity and be amazed on what it can do on sheet metal!
Downwindtracker2
Well-Known Member
Ol'Shackey here, I use the Braille method of welding. I have a couple of welding machines. A Miller 250x MIG, it has been discribed as the second worst welder Miller ever made. Starting is like using arc-air.There is a patch, BTW, but I haven't done it. By 251, they got it right. I don't do sheet metal much, so it doesn't matter. And a Magnum Wave 200KD TIG/stick. It's a HuiGong (sp). Think ESAB 187 , both are made in Shanghai .About the same quality, good machines, but not great. Once you learn how to program, stick is nice. It'll do 1/8" 7018 easily enough.What more do you want. I rarely did 5/32 in years of working. Using TIG,with 1/4" aluminum, it's pedal to the metal. It doesn't have the circuitry to do beer cans. I have a spoolgun for the Miller, so I can do < 1/4". I have a LA oxy/acc set that I use for cutting, bending, and brazing.
Dan Dubeau
Ultra Member
I'll try to remember that next time I get the chance, thanks.
I've never been able to weld sheet metal very effectively, so I'm very curious. What does swapping polarity do to the process that makes it so amazing on sheet metal? And why?
Does that work for TIG too?
Straight polarity puts less heat into the material and more into the rod
it has to do with Wich way the electrons are flowing, from the rod into the material, or from the material into the rod, one way puts 70% of the heat into the material and the other puts 70% into the rod
It does not work for Tig, you end up with to much heat in the tungsten, give it a try, you'll find your tungsten glowing long before you would with it in the normal polarity
Proxule
Ultra Member
Beat me to it, you summed it up. thanks