Welding carts & compressed gases

[Chicken lights]

Back when Ron was running Praxair, if I was doing a big job and thought i'd run out, he'd toss me an extra bottle and i'd just pay for the gas, and bring the next empty back and we'd be square again. They don't do that sort of thing anymore. Mark a Liquid Air is great to deal with though...

Praxair used to be awesome. If I couldn’t make it before closing time it would be on the back dock for “after hours” service. One of the managers actually drove to my house once to drop off a refund. Now whoever is running it took almost 6 months to order in a gauge for my torches and it was still wrong.
Used to be $50-60 a year to lease a K size oxygen tank. Then it bumped to $80. Then environmental fees. Then $100. Then they tried charging me for 10 bottles. Then they refunded me the overage but then billed me interest on the 10 bottles. All in the last couple years. Sad to part ways with a company after a dozen years but that’s how she goes. I’ll be in the same boat as you guys once my last K size cylinder runs out.

Didn’t someone on here mention getting tanks filled at a scuba place?

 

[Former Member]

What province are you in? Who regulates what bottles one can own? I wonder if this is a local policy, provincial, federal or supplier policies.... Air Liquide will only sell the 40/45 cuft bottles. Praxair is who sold the original 80 ft bottle that I now own (they don't sell them anymore) but if you own the larger one yet, that would be a good size to own for a homeowner. The guy who bought my welder was talking about bottles. He said he did not want to lease cause it cost too much as a friend of his just returned his and "had $1400 into it" I asked how and turns out he had it for 14 years and never used a full bottle, sooooo, one has to be realistic about their uses, which change year to year, project to project for most, I think. Praxair will also rent a bottle for a short term. I don't know how cost effective that is but if one had a large project for a short term, that might be. IIRC, it was reasonable.

Ontario.

Yes it is a purchase, but....its more like a long term lease, basically no yearly rental but I walk in and replace the cylinder with a filled one and pay the filling fee.

As to legal stuff, not sure if this is the case or a scam set up in Canada. I suspect it a way of keeping the tanks tested and certified

I have Scuba tanks that I own, and need to be tested and certified every so often, but even there one is a true test, the other by the scuba shops for more money (don't ask how I found this out). Funny thing my Argon tank has about 1200-1300psi, my steel 100cf new allows for over 3000psi (significantly more dangerous) and NITROX at that.

I must say Canada is definitely a Nanni state.

Forgot to mention as far as I know there are only 2 major gas suppliers in the Canada, everything else is just a sub set of them.

 

[Dan Dubeau]

I must say Canada is definitely a Nanni state.

True for some stuff, not others though. You jump through hoops to get bottles and stuff like that but you can haul them to get refilled on the jankiest homebuilt trailer, welded with a 120v fluxcore, that doesn't need to be inspected lol.

I own my 80cf bottles (praxair) from TSC/peaveymart in ontario. I have one store about 20 minutes from home (bowmanville), and another around the corner from work (peterborough). Both recent times neither store had an argon in stock when I needed it, so I had to drive 40 minutes to a different store (lindsay) I'd like to step up to a bigger mig mix bottle, but will cross that bridge when I come to it. We have air liquid service at work, and I'll probably go that route with leased bottles when the time comes. But I'll keep my owned bottles for backups.

Keep an eye on Kijiji/market place for bottles for sale that can be exchanged at TSC. Actually don't bother....nevermind I said that.....It probably wont work anyway.....

 

[DavidR8]

Hmm my local KMS sells bottles and refills same. Actually my experience has been that they just exchange them to save you time as they need to cool/settle/rest and recuperate after filling before they can be taken home.

 

[ShawnR]

Back when Ron was running Praxair, if I was doing a big job and thought i'd run out, he'd toss me an extra bottle and i'd just pay for the gas, and bring the next empty back and we'd be square again. They don't do that sort of thing anymore. Mark a Liquid Air is great to deal with though...

I remember Ron. He was good to deal with, but, back then, I was not overly active. And yes, I deal with Mark all the time now. He is awesome but AirLiquide will not fill (technically, exchange) my Argon as it is a Praxair thing to allow the 80's so Praxair for Argon but 40 cuft bottles at AirLiquide. The guys at Praxair here seem good to deal with, so far too so all good.

 

[Former Member]

Must say I'm lucky have least 2 sources within 10 minutes from house and both stock, one is a major supplier (which is how I found out how these buyouts have happened over the last couple of years.

 

[Tom O]

I have the 80cf bottle for the welder that I bought at Liquid Air and just exchange it for another with no problem the smaller Oxy Accetaline bottles I got at KMS I haven’t filled yet.

 

[PeterT]

Give OxyPro a call just for comparison. No actual $ experience but when I was tire kicking, it was a one time 'lease' if that's the right word, filled tank, then X $/refill after that. It's never your tank, you're just recycling from their pool I think, so I don't know if it perpetuates indefinitely or 10 years or...? I don't want to guess at my bad memory but I seem to recall like 280$ for first tank (filled), then 85$ per fill.. whatever gas we were chatting at the time. Be interested to know how this compares to other Calgary vendors. They had a selection of sizes.

 

[6.5 Fan]

The only tanks Air Liquide would sell me are the small tanks, exchange for a full oner when needed. The little oxy tanks suck on my oxy/propane cutting outfit, don't last very long if your cutting. The dealer here also farms and says he has 2 of these little tanks because they run out to fast when doing an extended job.

 

[Mcgyver]

Thoughts on the lease vs own the bottles ??

Better to own if you can imo. Here, you can only own the small bottles. More of a pain having to take the odd extra trip, but better than leasing.

if you do lease, make sure you read every line of the lease contract. Some are rather unfair imo. Given the litigious nature of some of the players I'm reluctant to name names. I spend a lot on welding gas per month, and some of these firms, well, they're not nice people...so study the contract.

 

[Dabbler]

I have a story about own/lease

I have always owned my bottles, I only need gas every 5 years or so. When Air Liquide closed in Calgary years ago, Linde bought their old phone number and lied about acuiring their Alberta business. They got me to turn in my old bigger bottle for a smaller Linde one for an exorbitant price on a Friday afternoon, when I was over a barrel. I will NEVER do business with Linde again, -- even if means driving to Red Deer or Lethridge to avoid it. I am cautiously avoiding using profane language in this regard.

 

[Gearhead88]

Originally I went with Air Liquide for my personal / home shop welding supplies because I was used to dealing with them on commercial accounts , they were close by ( Barlow trail ) and they were open Saturday . The convenience of being open Saturdays and using the close by location no longer applies , they've closed that branch .

 

[Susquatch]

Most of my neighbours have had bad experiences with gas and gas bottles. I'm not thrilled either. I really don't use that much of anything.

My worst experience which I have NEVER forgotten, was the purchase of an oxy/acet kit with bottles, torches, and a cart about 30 years ago. Wanted the bottles filled. NFW, had to give them my brand new gorgeous bottles in exchange for two crappy rusty old bottles. Bailed on that and went down the street. Same story but slightly better bottles so I folded.

Still pissed today.

 

[PeterT]

FWIW here are my OxyPro Calgary recent phone call notes.
50CF argon, $299 (initial rental, filled first time), $59/refill thereafter. He said (paraphrasing) tanks are typically 10 years cert but doesn't really matter because you typically just get handed a filled one from pool, so I don't think 10 years means anything related to initial purchase. Maybe he was referring to a self-owned tank, not sure. I didn't ask for sample paperwork /lease agreement but that's a great suggestion. 80CF was something like $300-ish & $110 refill, but I cant read my own scribbles.

 

[Dan Dubeau]

80CF was something like $300-ish & $110 refill, but I cant read my own scribbles.

That's inline with what I pay at TSC/peaveymart here in Ontario for owned bottles in an exchange (praxair). You can catch the odd bottle sale, and fill/exchange sale (-15-20%) at the store, but it never aligns with when I'm empty lol. I've got all 3 of my bottles cheaper though. One from the store on sale, one with a Mig purchase, and another off marketplace for $20, but it's only a 40cf. If you pay attention to marketplace/kijiji you can sometimes find praxair bottles that they will exchange for tsc branded ones for around $100-150. I've bought another one before but gave it to a friend starting out a couple years ago. Been too late for a couple other deals too. Gas type doesn't matter, you can exchange any gas for the same size bottle.

 

[Tom O]

Originally I went with Air liquide for my personal / home shop welding supplies because I was used to dealing with them with commercial accounts , they were close by ( Barlow trail ) and they were open Saturday . The convienience of being open saturdays and using the close by location no longer applies , they've closed that branch .

They are across the road from the Road King Truck Stop about 5 minutes away from me.

 

[Tom O]

Most of my neighbours have had bad experiences with gas and gas bottles. I'm not thrilled either. I really don't use that much of anything.

My worst experience which I have NEVER forgotten, was the purchase of an oxy/acet kit with bottles, torches, and a cart about 30 years ago. Wanted the bottles filled. NFW, had to give them my brand new gorgeous bottles in exchange for two crappy rusty old bottles. Bailed on that and went down the street. Same story but slightly better bottles so I folded.

Still pissed today.

Still exchanging them like that you never have to get your bottles tested that falls on them.

 

[Gearhead88]

They are across the road from the Road King Truck Stop about 5 minutes away from me.

That's where I've been going since the North Barlow trail store closed .

I’m going there tomorrow , we’ll see how it plays out.

I should come up with an alternate plan , in case I need to sever my relationship with Air Liquide , Oxy pro has been recommended as a possible substitute .

 

[ShawnR]

The cart is coming along, slowly...

I reconfigured the metal from the original cart to be used as shelves. That meant filling the hole in for the tank in the old cart. Since I have a new TIG welder, and need a lot of practice, I went for it. Turned out OK, for me. The bottom section will be a drawer for the accessories. Tomorrow, I am hoping for TIG rod rack and cable hooks. It will be getting close to paint by then. The big Oooops for this project.....while shortening the top shelf, and over thinking it 20 times, I managed to go out and "just get it done"....now it is about an inch too short!! Not a big deal as I can make it work but just when I figured I had it all figured out....Oh well.

 

[Former Member]

Unfortunately filling acet. is extremely dangerous, and they do it extremely far way from any housing or population. If you think propane is dangerous this is even worse (just remember the 2008 Downsview incident in Toronto and that was only propane).

BTW Messer Gas is now the biggest supplier in Canada (both Linde and Paxair got bought by them).