Welding Cables Discussion

[Janger]

I think the spring loaded clamps we use on booster cables and on welding ground connecters is also very suspect. In the old days welders used clamps that were an actual clamp with a screw. Jody, the welder guy on YouTube he puts a piece of copper steel wool underneath the clamp to improve the connection. My MiG welder improved performance significantly when I replaced the cheap spring loaded ground clamp that came with the welder with a much better one. And it’s even better when I put a threaded clamp on top of the spring clamp.

 

[phaxtris]

@Janger like these ? You're right those spring ones are garbage, 100% worth spending the money when that little sheet of copper or braided wire burns out

I have both of these styles, the first one is my favorite, when brand new it takes two hands to open the clamp, I just had to replace one...spring broke after 3 years, i have a pipedream of melting it down for something one day

The screw ones are good when you don't want to have any stray arcs from the ground


US Forge Welding Heavy Duty Bronze Ground Clamp 300 Amps https://a.co/d/6T5f8Fz

Welding Clamp G Ground Earth Clamp, 500A Brass Material Classical G Shape Ground Clamp, Ground Welding Earth Clamp for Welding Machine, Oil Exploitation, Automobile Manufacturing https://a.co/d/0MOpcNT

 

[DavidR8]

@Janger like these ? You're right those spring ones are garbage, 100% worth spending the money when that little sheet of copper or braided wire burns out

I have both of these styles, the first one is my favorite, when brand new it takes two hands to open the clamp, I just had to replace one...spring broke after 3 years, i have a pipedream of melting it down for something one day

The screw ones are good when you don't want to have any stray arcs from the ground

View attachment 29371View attachment 29372
US Forge Welding Heavy Duty Bronze Ground Clamp 300 Amps https://a.co/d/6T5f8Fz

Welding Clamp G Ground Earth Clamp, 500A Brass Material Classical G Shape Ground Clamp, Ground Welding Earth Clamp for Welding Machine, Oil Exploitation, Automobile Manufacturing https://a.co/d/0MOpcNT

I put one of those first ones on my Primeweld and it is definitely a two-handed affair. Light gauge metal beware!

 

[Dabbler]

...And Safe is Safe, by definition, and I think the CSA has more skin in the game than a random internet website

My welder extension cords are 50A style from princess auto. they work just fine for my use. I have a 50ft, a 25ft, and a 15ft.

My booster cables are just average decent ones from Can Tire. I find they work just fine. I've been *super tempted* to make "the perfect booster cables", but never pulled the trigger.

 

[6.5 Fan]

I have a set of home made booster cables with some heavy spring clamps, Not sure where they came from but they are very aggressive, they dig in to lead battery posts and clamps. My Mig welder was equipped with a long heavy lead by the previous owner, no extra cables needed to reach across the shop. Tis a pain coiling up all that cable on the machine though.

 

[Susquatch]

Oh you're getting me wrong, I'm not saying these cables are as good as the nice ones you guys have posted, I just thought it was funny to post a pic of my sub 100$ cable's

Nah, I got you right. And I did smile! I was just saying those crappy cables of yours can actually do just fine when you have nothing else and it's just a car. Better those than nothing.

Btw, if you are ever in need and they don't do the job. Just leave those old jumper cables connected for 15 minutes or so. That will allow the jump vehicle to partially charge the dead one so you don't need as much jump current when you go to start it.

 

[Susquatch]

Solder the connection?

It is odd to me that I never tried that and even odder that I never tested it. It's one of those great questions I've always put away for "some day".

I suppose I should have done it when I was working with big industrial spot welders. Especially since that cable connection was often the problem.

The worry is that the current flow would melt the solder in the connection so why bother.

But the reality is that it doesn't melt the plastic covers so it probably doesn't get that hot.

The next question is what solder? Prolly best to use old high-lead solder not the new low lead stuff.

Standard practice is without solder. Don't know if there is a reason.

It's a good question. Sorry I can't answer it.

Edit - another worry is the size of the heat sink. Soldering on a cable that big might not work without an OA Torch that would damage the cable or separate the solder metals. Just noodling the possible issues.

 

[Susquatch]

I think the spring loaded clamps we use on booster cables and on welding ground connecters is also very suspect. In the old days welders used clamps that were an actual clamp with a screw. Jody, the welder guy on YouTube he puts a piece of copper steel wool underneath the clamp to improve the connection. My MiG welder improved performance significantly when I replaced the cheap spring loaded ground clamp that came with the welder with a much better one. And it’s even better when I put a threaded clamp on top of the spring clamp.

Exactly my earlier point. Love my cables. Hate the connector clamp.

 

[Susquatch]

@Janger like these ? You're right those spring ones are garbage, 100% worth spending the money when that little sheet of copper or braided wire burns out

I have both of these styles, the first one is my favorite, when brand new it takes two hands to open the clamp, I just had to replace one...spring broke after 3 years, i have a pipedream of melting it down for something one day

The screw ones are good when you don't want to have any stray arcs from the ground

View attachment 29371View attachment 29372
US Forge Welding Heavy Duty Bronze Ground Clamp 300 Amps https://a.co/d/6T5f8Fz

Welding Clamp G Ground Earth Clamp, 500A Brass Material Classical G Shape Ground Clamp, Ground Welding Earth Clamp for Welding Machine, Oil Exploitation, Automobile Manufacturing https://a.co/d/0MOpcNT

Never considered these. Not even for welding.

They look awesome!

Best be really careful not to short them if used to jump start a vehicle.

 

[Chicken lights]

It is odd to me that I never tried that and even odder that I never tested it. It's one of those great questions I've always put away for "some day".

I suppose I should have done it when I was working with big industrial spot welders. Especially since that cable connection was often the problem.

The worry is that the current flow would melt the solder in the connection so why bother.

But the reality is that it doesn't melt the plastic covers so it probably doesn't get that hot.

The next question is what solder? Prolly best to use old high-lead solder not the new low lead stuff.

Standard practice is without solder. Don't know if there is a reason.

It's a good question. Sorry I can't answer it.

Edit - another worry is the size of the heat sink. Soldering on a cable that big might not work without an OA Torch that would damage the cable or separate the solder metals. Just noodling the possible issues.

Rosin core

Just like plumbing, heat one end of the terminal then feed solder from the other end

I use a butane torch

Then let it cool and add heat shrink

Edit- I’m sure there’s other ways. That’s just my way

 

[phaxtris]

Nah, I got you right. And I did smile! I was just saying those crappy cables of yours can actually do just fine when you have nothing else and it's just a car. Better those than nothing.

Btw, if you are ever in need and they don't do the job. Just leave those old jumper cables connected for 15 minutes or so. That will allow the jump vehicle to partially charge the dead one so you don't need as much jump current when you go to start it.

Not just cars I've literally started stone cold dead telehandlers (70hp diesel tractor), and more than one Cummins truck, but your right you do need to let them charge up the offending battery for a while, and they are only 10ft. They aren't actually that cheap, the pair on the right retail for 80$ currently

 

[phaxtris]

Never considered these. Not even for welding.

They look awesome!

Best be really careful not to short them if used to jump start a vehicle.

Oh, I didn't mean for booster cables, janger went on to the upgrade to his ground clamp on the welder, probabaly make some good sparks when you inevitably shorted one out as a booster clamp! And hey you could probabaly get a solid ground just by clamping to the fender with one of the first ones ! No need to use the ground terminal !

Rosin core

Just like plumbing, heat one end of the terminal then feed solder from the other end

I use a butane torch

Then let it cool and add heat shrink

Edit- I’m sure there’s other ways. That’s just my way

I've soldered up ro 0/1 this way, clamp the copper crimp deal in the vise, heat it with a propane torch and fill the cup half way full of solder, Jam the cable in, actually takes a bit for the solder to solidify

Doesn't solder melt at like 400 deg, might be bigger problems if your cables are getting that hot?

 

[Susquatch]

Rosin core

Just like plumbing, heat one end of the terminal then feed solder from the other end

I use a butane torch

Then let it cool and add heat shrink

Edit- I’m sure there’s other ways. That’s just my way

If I did it, I'd do almost exactly that, but I'd use a dip can of rosin not rosin core, and I'd prolly try to start with MAPP Gas and move up to OA if it didn't work.

To be clear, I love rosin core. It's my goto for most soldering. I even have some micro fine stuff.

But as you can read between the lines, I'm a bit scared of this job going bad.

Might also tin the cable and clamp first.

3 fears -

1. Heat Conduction rate of big cable might melt the insulator before the solder flows.

2. Cold joints in the connection because of low temp from too much heat flow.

3. Connection resistance causes high voltage drop at the connection

But hey, Lotta discussion here without trying it.

Oh, I didn't mean for booster cables,

I DID!

 

[phaxtris]

To be clear you are talking about this style of lug? Right?

Tinning the conductor doesn't work, the torch just burns away the strands and the jacket, I've made several cables of various awg over the years, filling up the cup full and jamming the cable in always seemed to work the best, if you put the cable on first....burnt jacket, if you try to tin the cable, burnt strands and jacket, the puddle of molten solder seems to have enough heat to wick into the cable without pre heating the cable, you actually need to hold the cable still in the connector for a few seconds for the solder to solidify

Just my experiance, propane torch was always enough

 

[cjmac]

Decades ago, I made a bunch of cables for my boat using welding cable. I used 1/2" copper (water) pipe for terminals. It fit the wire nicely and soldered very easily with a propane torch. I used 2 1/2" or 3" of copper pipe, stuck it on the wire cable (it was a snug fit), hammered the end flat, soldered it and then drilled a 3/8" hole in the flattened part. Looked similar to the copper lugs we use now. It turned out really cheap to do. I had to connect 2 diesels and a lot of batteries and switches so there were a lot of connections.

Chris

 

[Susquatch]

To be clear you are talking about this style of lug? Right

No, not that kind.

I can't find a photo, but more like the block connectors that your service lines use to connect a 200 amp service to your breaker box.

The cable inserts 2 or 3 screws deep and then a sliding Internal block tightens down on the cable. The sliding block is intended to stop distortion of the wire strands when the screws are tightened. The main block is an integral part of the input connection. In this case, the main block would be built (machined) right into one side of the bigger better booster cable clamp.

 

[phaxtris]

No, not that kind.

I can't find a photo, but more like the block connectors that your service lines use to connect a 200 amp service to your breaker box.

The cable inserts 2 or 3 screws deep and then a sliding Internal block tightens down on the cable. The sliding block is intended to stop distortion of the wire strands when the screws are tightened. The main block is an integral part of the input connection. In this case, the main block would be built (machined) right into one side of the bigger better booster cable clamp.

Oh boy these cables are getting expensive!

You could also just use hammer lugs, fill the connection with dielectric grease and pound down

 

[Susquatch]

We are all prolly on different pages here.

In my case, I'm talking about dual 800+ CCA batteries (OVER 1500 Amps) to start a big diesel truck or a big Agricultural tractor with. 2000 amps or more is not unheard of. Less will often work, but I know from my own experience that 1000 amps does not always cut it. My own 2500 truck comes from the factory with dual 850CCA batteries so 1700 CCA. I just finished replacing them last winter cuz they didn't cut the mustard anymore at 550 & 525 respectively. My puny big jumper cables didn't work even using my big tractor as the jump vehicle. Even putting C-Clamps on the alligator Clamps didn't work. Two new batteries did.

I'm not saying that less than that is no good. I'm just saying that it isn't what I'm after. I do like @Chicken lights Clamps, but I'd like to see them first. Do you ever use those to jump your big horse when the batteries were dead Dave?

 

[phaxtris]

No we are not on different pages, I just think you and I have different ideas of a big truck, a 6.7 with 2 800cca battery's is not what I consider a big truck. I am a welder/ironworker, I work with some of the biggest stuff around

 

[Susquatch]

No we are not on different pages, I just think you and I have different ideas of a big truck, a 6.7 with 2 800cca battery's is not what I consider a big truck. I am a welder/ironworker, I work with some of the biggest stuff around

I agree with that. Hence my question to @ChickenLights.

Doesnt really matter though. My personal goal is to be reliably able to jump my little toy truck and my wee tiny farm tractors. LOL! I can't do that with the cables I have.