Sourcing Metal | General Discussion
- Thread starter Janger
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Tom Kitta
Ultra Member
Rents are still high in industrial areas - coming down. I was told by a compressor company owner whom reduced from 5 to 3 buildings that he is now paying $6 per square foot. I saw cheaper rates but even $2000 for say 1000 ft bay a month seems a lot of money in addition to other expenses.
The 20K could be a good buy. It looked new few months ago. Not sure why he has two forklifts - he can probably offload these at an auction.
The 20K could be a good buy. It looked new few months ago. Not sure why he has two forklifts - he can probably offload these at an auction.
Deni822
Member
New guy here, first post. Great forum.
Wanted to find another supplier to Federal that was open on a Saturday and went to see James on the weekend after reading about him on here. Yup, the prices are 30-60% higher than Federal. I didn't realize 'til I got home and went through the invoice in detail. My fault, I should have checked before I picked it up but was fed up with not having stock to work on. He has a long piece of flatbar that he uses as a prop to show that Federal sells kickouts and his stock is better and warrants the "slighly" higher price. Probably last time I go to him.
Just so everyone knows, James made an account and basically lamb-basted us as a group which is unfortunate. His point were all extremely valid, so having him discuss it openly with the group would have brought a lot of respect, but instead the text was pretty inflammatory, and generally not productive, so I'm not going to post it verbatim, but I feel his points should be heard none-the-less.
His points were all really spot on:
Federal has been around for 60 years, so it makes sense that they have a larger scale of ordering and infrastructure to facilitate lower pricing. We all agree that the quality of their steel isn't the greatest in alot of cases too, and price isn't everything, We had in the past praised Steel Inc. for free cuts and good service, none of which has changed, but he was quickly thrown to the wolves based on pricing, with no regard to those positives (my choice of words).
He has two forklifts in case one breaks.
He's not looking to sell his business, it's alive and well.
His overhead recently changed, distributors increase their pricing as the mills raise their price.
@Tom Kitta 's comment about him going under and $.10 on the dollar was uncalled for.
The rest of it was not super productive, some of it just plain old insults being tossed around about "working out of garden sheds", etc.
---> Note: Hobbyists unite! Work where you can when you can, that's the spirit of a hobby! If all I had were a shed, god knows I would be turning steel there!
Finally, he asked his account be deleted, so it has been.
Anyways, take away guys, please keep in mind that James isn't some evil dude trying to squeeze every penny out of us or anything like that, he's just doing what he feels is right for his business, as any prudent business owner should.
We can shop where we want to, or not where we don't, but either way, lets try to keep it civil.
Finally, I'm posting all of this for transparency, as I want us to be a community, but please do not let this thread get too messy or it'll have to get locked, and that's not good for anyone!
JW
His points were all really spot on:
Federal has been around for 60 years, so it makes sense that they have a larger scale of ordering and infrastructure to facilitate lower pricing. We all agree that the quality of their steel isn't the greatest in alot of cases too, and price isn't everything, We had in the past praised Steel Inc. for free cuts and good service, none of which has changed, but he was quickly thrown to the wolves based on pricing, with no regard to those positives (my choice of words).
He has two forklifts in case one breaks.
He's not looking to sell his business, it's alive and well.
His overhead recently changed, distributors increase their pricing as the mills raise their price.
@Tom Kitta 's comment about him going under and $.10 on the dollar was uncalled for.
The rest of it was not super productive, some of it just plain old insults being tossed around about "working out of garden sheds", etc.
---> Note: Hobbyists unite! Work where you can when you can, that's the spirit of a hobby! If all I had were a shed, god knows I would be turning steel there!
Finally, he asked his account be deleted, so it has been.
Anyways, take away guys, please keep in mind that James isn't some evil dude trying to squeeze every penny out of us or anything like that, he's just doing what he feels is right for his business, as any prudent business owner should.
We can shop where we want to, or not where we don't, but either way, lets try to keep it civil.
Finally, I'm posting all of this for transparency, as I want us to be a community, but please do not let this thread get too messy or it'll have to get locked, and that's not good for anyone!
JW
Tom Kitta
Ultra Member
Agreed that gossiping about future of James'es business is counter productive for the forum. On the other hand pointing out a place is no longer - for many of us - a good source of metal is as per forum topic. I don't see anyone pointing out any negatives about James himself - he always was super nice as a person to me - maybe I missed a post somewhere. Both myself and others have criticised his business and decisions related to such business that effect us - his customers.
Deni822
Member
I didn't have any problems with James, he was great, friendly and hard working trying to hustle getting stuff out the door. You can see he really cares about his business. I was just surprised how much more my bill was than I was expecting. Like I said, it was my fault for not checking first. He sets the prices so he can make a living but we're all spending our hard earned money and watching our bottom line, especially in these tough times. That is why I shared my experience, which was purely based on price, not service which was great.
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Dabbler
ersatz engineer
I've been troubled about the turn of this thread. I didn't jump to James' defense because I wasn't there and didn't know what you bought.
Recently I bought several whole sticks of 4X4 tubing from him - at 20% less than the going rate at Varsteel and similar. I don't shop at Federal, because several times I was offered bent product, with no option to take a straight one. After the 2nd time, I refuse to go back.
If James was offering things at the same price - I would still go to him. 1) he cut it into 6 foot chunks to fit into my box for no charge. 2) He had it available instantly without hassle. 3) He is a nice person 4) potential long term competitor, which may help to foster some pricing reality. 5) he helped me load it onto my truck on a very busy day.
To me these issues weigh very heavily. Price is important, but my experience has always been positive.
Recently I bought several whole sticks of 4X4 tubing from him - at 20% less than the going rate at Varsteel and similar. I don't shop at Federal, because several times I was offered bent product, with no option to take a straight one. After the 2nd time, I refuse to go back.
If James was offering things at the same price - I would still go to him. 1) he cut it into 6 foot chunks to fit into my box for no charge. 2) He had it available instantly without hassle. 3) He is a nice person 4) potential long term competitor, which may help to foster some pricing reality. 5) he helped me load it onto my truck on a very busy day.
To me these issues weigh very heavily. Price is important, but my experience has always been positive.
Tom Kitta
Ultra Member
I suggest we go back to the original purpose of the thread. Sources for steel in Calgary. For mild weldable steel in small quantities we have, as far as I know:
- Federal
- Steel Inc.
- Metal Supermarket
- retailers such as Princess Auto
For alloy steel in small quantity:
- metal supermarket
- online shipping from the US
- I have some round stock
For larger quantities, usually over $500 per order there are multiple sources - however, most as far as I know deal with mild weldable steel not with alloy steel and not in larger sizes used by a milling machine or a larger lathe.
In short, we don't have much choice for use on a milling machine or a lathe. Some of us have friends they can buy stuff of but there is no established business that will sell at reasonable prices alloy or even mild still stock in smaller quantities to be used in hobby machining.
Did any of the above change recently? Say I need 2'' by 4'' by 2 feet bar of alloy steel - anyone know another source to the above?
- Federal
- Steel Inc.
- Metal Supermarket
- retailers such as Princess Auto
For alloy steel in small quantity:
- metal supermarket
- online shipping from the US
- I have some round stock
For larger quantities, usually over $500 per order there are multiple sources - however, most as far as I know deal with mild weldable steel not with alloy steel and not in larger sizes used by a milling machine or a larger lathe.
In short, we don't have much choice for use on a milling machine or a lathe. Some of us have friends they can buy stuff of but there is no established business that will sell at reasonable prices alloy or even mild still stock in smaller quantities to be used in hobby machining.
Did any of the above change recently? Say I need 2'' by 4'' by 2 feet bar of alloy steel - anyone know another source to the above?
Dabbler
ersatz engineer
What I would like is a chart that was 'sticky' with the current supplier situation. I would be happy to moderate the chart, and we could do 'likes/dislikes' count for REGISTERED members. (we would have to allow people to change their vote, if 'bad things happen', or situations change) Even if it were a downloadable spreadsheet, it would be better than paging through a forum for an email address or supplier name. (I can't remember names very well)
If we were to do some club purchases, I would be game at reasonable prices per pound (even though I have a lot of material right now)
If we were to do some club purchases, I would be game at reasonable prices per pound (even though I have a lot of material right now)
Tom Kitta
Ultra Member
Excellent idea!
Ok other suppliers. Encore, Wilkinson steel, Allied. Varsteel. Samuel.
Quoting my first post on this from two 1/2 years ago:
Quoting my first post on this from two 1/2 years ago:
Samuel specialty metals. They have aluminium and stainless. Example Price was $50 for angle 1.5x1.5" x1/4 thick by 20' long aluminium angle. $125 minimum charge so you would have to buy three pieces for $150 in that example. I don't think they do cutting to buy less, but they probably would cut so you can get it home. Group purchase anyone? To compare angle 1x1x 1/8 thick by 6 feet long at home depot is probably $30. Their sister company is wilkinson steel but I didn't call them. Open M-F 9-3!
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Hey Team,
Can you see:
http://canadianhobbymetalworkers.com/forums/sourcing-metal-stock.34/
I've added a new setup to better facilitate discussion around each individual metal supplier, and keep it all in one spot. While it's not a chart (I'm not sure how to set that up, while restricting editing access to members only, but am open to discussion.) But hope this is one step closer to where we need to go.
How do you guys propose to manage a single chart page, which I agree would be best. Any thoughts?
--> I'll do some digging for components to add to the forum to manage this better than the existing forum functionality.
In the mean-time, we can start gathering relevant data into dedicated threads as shown in the above example link. Then when we have a chart system figured out, can simply copy the info over. Thoughts?
JW
Can you see:
http://canadianhobbymetalworkers.com/forums/sourcing-metal-stock.34/
I've added a new setup to better facilitate discussion around each individual metal supplier, and keep it all in one spot. While it's not a chart (I'm not sure how to set that up, while restricting editing access to members only, but am open to discussion.) But hope this is one step closer to where we need to go.
How do you guys propose to manage a single chart page, which I agree would be best. Any thoughts?
--> I'll do some digging for components to add to the forum to manage this better than the existing forum functionality.
In the mean-time, we can start gathering relevant data into dedicated threads as shown in the above example link. Then when we have a chart system figured out, can simply copy the info over. Thoughts?
JW
Johnwa
Ultra Member
Protospace did a group buy from Samuels. Samuels would not cut it for them. IIRC they were allowed to plug a cutoff saw into an exterior outlet tho.
Dabbler
ersatz engineer
I have enough right now but getting new 7075 T5 or T6, 6061 or 2024 aluminum has been hard.
I'd love to get some 4140 in 3X3, 4X4 and 6X2 square sizes, but would only buy a meter each.
I'd be up for some pre-heat treated exotic stainless as well (there are a lot to choose from, all equal in my mind.
I'd love to get some 4140 in 3X3, 4X4 and 6X2 square sizes, but would only buy a meter each.
I'd be up for some pre-heat treated exotic stainless as well (there are a lot to choose from, all equal in my mind.
Dabbler, Aircraft Spruce has 6061 & 2024 in progressive diameters & reasonable stick lengths. No 7075 & nothing like the steel you're after though.
http://www.aircraftspruce.ca/menus/me/aluminum.html
http://www.aircraftspruce.ca/menus/me/aluminum.html
I just bought 1 x 4 x 12' 6061. No crops, no cuts and they won't let you cut it there.