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Grinder for sharpening metalworking and woodworking tools- low speed or normal speed?

Mcgyver said:
thats a strong endorsement, glad its working well for you.

Cuttermasters, seems some sort of incarnation of Cuttermaster, no "s". The Cuttermaster was available in two styles, with a column and without. imo the column drastically improves its functionality. It was made in the US was a good quality machine. Looking at the CuttermasterS, I do not like the column, doesn't seem very substantial. I also am shocked at the price, 9600? Wow. I assume its made in China as Accusize also sells it, but their web site claims made in Canada and US.

There is some weirdness around the name/brand. Knowing the original machine was definitely "Cuttermaster" (manual page below), I kind of became the proverbial dog with a bone trying to figure it out. Cuttermaster belonged to Conquest Industries Inc, Santa Fe. The cuttermaster.com url sits unused and and Conquest Industries no longer lists them as a product.

Accusize's web site notes "Cuttermasters with an S is a multinational company. It has offices and factories across Canada and the U.S. Its products include Drill Sharpeners, End Mill Sharpeners, Annular Cutter Sharpeners, Neck Relief, Weldon Flat Grinding, Corner Radius, Carbide Cut Off, etc. All the Cuttermasters products are made in Canada or made in the U.S.". It looks like there is lone Canadian office and "factory" is a bungalow in Ottawa, 2353 Ridgecrest Pl. The US web site claims made there (US), seems surprising and I'm doubtful. Furthermore, Cuttermasters's US website gives the address 808 Proctor Ave, Ogdensburg, NY, which appears to be a freestanding building with NAS Logistics, a drop ship/forward as the occupant.

Toycen Industries of Ottawa claims to have designed the Cuttermaster Professional. Jeff Toycen is listed as the President of Cuttermasters, and his web site says they are active in Business Analytics, Construction Planning, Energy Infrastructure, Global Markets, Startup Funding and Wealth Management. The empire's HQ is 2353 Ridgecrest Pl, Ottawa. A 411 search says there is a J Toycen living at 2353 Ridgecrest Pl.

It's possible they could still have NA manufacturing, but they try very hard to hide it. They claim a amazing list of customers (Gucci, Rolls Royce, Amazon, Google, NASA and Pauls Tool and Die...scroll down here https://cuttermasters.com/about-us-2/?currency=CAD) and that they usually fix the machines for free: https://cuttermasters.com/about-us-2/. The whole thing just seems way off.

Conquest (Cuttermaster) is still in business, has a 40,000 sq ft with 11 CNC machines (according to the website) but does not list tool grinders as a product.

Anyway,I ended up with a Chevlair bench top grinder, a clone of the real (orginal US) Cuttermaster with the column. It's a substantial and well balanced machine. It was 1500 used from a dealer 10 years ago and if you see one come up, I'd recommend it. They do on kijiji and at auction occasionally. Hienman in Miss, a good sized distributor sold a lot of them (according to the old boy Hienman himself when I asked him).

Chevelair are made in Tiawan and somewhere between ok and good imo. That view is mostly from working on/with the floor model I reconditioned (ok), and I would say benchtop is better made (good). The floor model, has received a ground reconditioning (scraping), really performs well now, but there were a few things about that make you shake your head. If I hold my tongue just so, I can grind a cylinder to less than tenth error, as measured with an indicating mic

In the age of the insert, its tough to be in the tool and cutter grinder business. It looks like Cuttermaster is gone, and Chevalier has dropped the the T&CGs. Sign of the times I guess.


original Cuttermaster manual - note url, no "s"
View attachment 21116


Accusize's claim

View attachment 21117

current Cuttermasters

CM-01P-CUTTERMASTER-Professional-End-Mill-Grinder-Flute-Grinding-1_700x.jpg



my little Chevalair FCG-610


View attachment 21119

larger floor model chevalier...used a lot for cylindrical grinding - basically a knock off of a K O Less T&CG



View attachment 21118


View attachment 21120



]
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Nice detective work and Intel. Cool sharpening machines also.
 
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Mcgyver said:
Its not impossible to sharpen an end mill with one, but its night and day using an air bearing. I suppose one could adapt an air bearing to it, the sizes/configuration wouldn't seem to promote it. Just saying, if the goal is to sharpen endmills imo you'd want to pursue a solution with an air bearing
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The Journeyman was my first choice, missed getting a good used one, the rest of used was in poor condition. As to the air bearing yes it helps, but my unit is actually extremely smooth. The biggest difference is the range of motion and adjustment, the JM has more and lets you do more. Given the cost difference of these two units these are easily overcome with a little ingenuity.
 
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There is an old exact copy of the Toycen Journeyman on Kijiji right now. He’s asking $1500 for it, with the air bearing, radius attachment and a bunch of pieces. Search in Winnipeg for End Mill Grinder FCG-30. Worth every penny and it will do SO much more. Check out Cuttermasters on Youtube.
 

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StevSmar said:
Wow, something interesting showing up in Winnipeg where I live. I need a mill first though…
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I would guess that you’d be able to get this for between $1000 and $1300. A ridiculous deal imo. Look at the cost of end mills and then think of the money you’ll save being able to sharpen the north American made milling cutters that you can pick up for $2 each (dull). And you’ll be able to sell it for every penny you spend on it…… I know that the air bearing OR the radius attachment cost more than $1200 each, not to mention the grinding wheels that appear to be with it….. I use mine for everything inbthe shop, including drill bits and lathe cutters. With a diamond wheel you can even sharpen carbide…. Like me, when I bought mine I wondered is it was worth the money….. It’s one of those thing that you don’t realize that you need it until you have it….. and then you wonder how you managed without it. Good luck!!

Cheers.

Derek
 
Mcgyver said:
Cuttermasters, seems some sort of incarnation of Cuttermaster, no "s". The Cuttermaster was available in two styles, with a column and without. imo the column drastically improves its functionality. It was made in the US was a good quality machine. Looking at the CuttermasterS, I do not like the column, doesn't seem very substantial. I also am shocked at the price, 9600? Wow. I assume its made in China as Accusize also sells it, but their web site claims made in Canada and US.
Click to expand...

From https://cuttermasters.com/why-tradesman-dc/ :

We needed a reversing variable speed motor for a new tool grinder.
Jeff was going to redesign the venerable old CUTTERMASTER The world had changed since 1972 and it needed some help. In 2010 the Cuttermaster Professional was born using a Bodine Motor and control.

We bought one of every motor we could find and arrived at DC being the only thing that would work because of its smooth quiet yet powerful variable speed characteristics.

The control: We designed our own board, but realized that we needed support and big shoulders if we got busy , we landed correctly on KB electronics KBw16 and KBws25 (KB became very expensive and had a high failure rate)

The Wheels: This is a good story we landed a contract to sharpen 100000 plus tools for Boeing Canada in 2007 (this started the Toolgrinder design project, I bought 2 Darex M5 drill sharpeners and soon was wearing out super abrasive wheels, so we designed our own in 2008 we now have 50 or so wheels that have been designed to be better than the ancient designs that were available.

Mcgyver said:
There is some weirdness around the name/brand. Knowing the original machine was definitely "Cuttermaster" (manual page below), I kind of became the proverbial dog with a bone trying to figure it out. Cuttermaster belonged to Conquest Industries Inc, Santa Fe. The cuttermaster.com url sits unused and and Conquest Industries no longer lists them as a product.
Click to expand...

From https://cuttermasters.com/about-us-2/:

January 2020, Cuttermasters acquired the Trademark CUTTERMASTER Professional. In June of 2020 Cuttermasters purchased all of the CUTTERMASTER inventory from its US rival.

Mcgyver said:
Accusize's web site notes "Cuttermasters with an S is a multinational company. It has offices and factories across Canada and the U.S. Its products include Drill Sharpeners, End Mill Sharpeners, Annular Cutter Sharpeners, Neck Relief, Weldon Flat Grinding, Corner Radius, Carbide Cut Off, etc. All the Cuttermasters products are made in Canada or made in the U.S.". It looks like there is lone Canadian office and "factory" is a bungalow in Ottawa, 2353 Ridgecrest Pl. The US web site claims made there (US), seems surprising and I'm doubtful.
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Why doubtful?
Mcgyver said:
Furthermore, Cuttermasters's US website gives the address 808 Proctor Ave, Ogdensburg, NY, which appears to be a freestanding building with NAS Logistics, a drop ship/forward as the occupant.
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From https://tradesmangrinder.com/about-us-2/https://tradesmangrinder.com/about-us-2/ :

The Toycen Group of companies has facilities in Ottawa (Engineering and Rapid Prototyping), Smiths Falls (Ontario-Distribution), and Ogdensburg, NY (Manufacturing and Distribution).

and also

Cuttermasters operates as a debt-free company. Cuttermasters has an engineering model shop and three warehouses in Canada, a US Office warehouse in New York, and the best warranty in the business; If it’s broken, we fix it. Machines are generally repaired for free as part of our research and life cycle test program. We maintain a large finished-goods inventory. Every prototype and product is designed by Jeff Toycen and then built by hand in our shop. Over the last decade, the company has developed a world-class crew of talented young men who are now experienced machine tool builders.
Mcgyver said:
Toycen Industries of Ottawa claims to have designed the Cuttermaster Professional.
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Jeff Toycen has been granted three patents by the United States Patent and Trademark Office: https://patents.justia.com/inventor/jeff-toycen

So, yeah, I guess it's probably true.

Mcgyver said:
Jeff Toycen is listed as the President of Cuttermasters, and his web site says they are active in Business Analytics, Construction Planning, Energy Infrastructure, Global Markets, Startup Funding and Wealth Management.
Click to expand...

He also designed explosive handling robots: https://cuttermasters.com/digital-x-or-y-axis-indicator-kit-fit-on-all-cuttermaster-machines/

Mcgyver said:
They claim a amazing list of customers (Gucci, Rolls Royce, Amazon, Google, NASA and Pauls Tool and Die...scroll down here https://cuttermasters.com/about-us-2/?currency=CAD) and that they usually fix the machines for free: https://cuttermasters.com/about-us-2/. The whole thing just seems way off.
Click to expand...

Why does it seem way off? I sincerely doubt someone that holds three registered U.S. patents would lie on his web site.

As per my signature, I have a Toycen Tradesman T8 grinder. It is, IMHO, the finest 8" bench grinder on Earth. Jeff's favourite demo is balancing a Loonie on top of the machine, then turns it on at low speed. The Loonie doesn't fall over. He then turns the speed to maximum, and the Loonie still doesn't fall over:

The grinder shaft concentricity is 2 tenths (.0002"), In comparison, my Rikon is 5 thou; my Princess Auto (now sold) was 30 thou. Something tells me the Toycen Tradesman shaft bearings are not from AliExpress.

Yes, it's bloody expensive. But it's one of those tools that you'll have to pry from my cold, dead hands.

We need more Canadian success stories, and Cuttermasters is one. Accusize is merely an authorized distributor of a fine Canadian-designed and Canadian-made product.
 
Glad to hear the positive account of the machine and that is working well for you.

Why doubtful? Tell me where do you think its made - whats the plant address? Not in Ottawa or NY according to what I found unless they are keeping it hidden. I've been a commercial guy for a long time and while I tried to be clear I can't be certain anything is amiss, the presentation and info strikes me as odd. If you don't see it, peace.

I sincerely doubt someone that holds three registered U.S. patents would lie on his web site.
Click to expand...

Not particular to this company (its not my intent to outright accuse, I have a view from hints not absolutes), but why do you say this? It seems a non sequitur. That a person holds US patents really doesn't provide any information on whether they lie or not.
 
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Mcgyver said:
Not particular to this company (its not my intent to outright accuse, I have a view from hints not absolutes), but why do you say this? It seems a non sequitur. That a person holds US patents really doesn't provide any information on whether they lie or not.
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I second this. I just didn't know how to say it without incriminating myself. ;)

I hold way more patents than 3. And I know lots of other people who hold lots of patents too. In my opinion, those who hold multiple patents are not any more likely to be honest people than any other cross-section of the rest of the population. I don't believe that holding a patent is a predictor of honesty. In fact, the one fellow I know who holds more patents than anyone else I know has to be the least honest person I have ever met in my whole life.

Caveat - My view of the patent/honesty aspect of the comments posted here is not intended as a criticism or a support of any other aspect of the discussion/debate.
 
You can look up the patent and it ownership and life left. How do I know I acquired and pay the maintenance fees on several patents. No they are not cheap to maintain.
 
Degen said:
You can look up the patent and it ownership and life left. How do I know I acquired and pay the maintenance fees on several patents. No they are not cheap to maintain.
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I consider myself VERY LUCKY that way. The legal department at my employer handled all that for me with the added benefit that nobody can look me up and/or hassle me. I just get nice royalty cheques ever so often.
 
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