Grinder for sharpening metalworking and woodworking tools- low speed or normal speed?

[StevSmar]

Along with my clamp and ruler fetish, I appear to be developing a grinder fetish… I mean I have two 6” grinders already…

Anyway, I’m looking for an 8” grinder that has dust collection ports and which I’ll also to set up nice grinding rest on (I’ve purchased the eccentric engineering one).

If it’s feasible, I’ll likely use it for sharpening both metalworking tools and for regrinding the primary bevel on woodworking tools. (Regularly dipping woodworking tools in water to cool them down doesn’t seem like a big hassle for me).
I’d probably set it up with an Aluminum Oxide wheel for HSS tool bits and a Silicon Cabride wheel for Tungsten Carbide tool bits.

If you were making a similar purchase, would you look at a low speed grinder, or stick with regular speed?

Thanks in advance for your advice.

 

[whydontu]

I have a 6” cheapo bench grinder, 8” slow wet grinder Grizzly T10097 as well as a 1x30 belt sander. 6” for rough stuff. 8” slow for fine stuff and kitchen knives where I want to be able to slice paper, belt sander for metal lathe tools. You can never have enough power tools.

If I only had room for one, the wet grinder would be my choice.

(last week there was a 24” old-style treadle sharpening rig on Craigslist in Vancouver. $200. The type you’d see 50 years ago, going door to door sharpening knives. Unfortunately, no room in my shop or I would have bought it.)

 

[Former Member]

There are a lots of ways to go. The primary reason you need cooling is being too aggressive in cutting no matter what you do. The latest trend is low speed grinders.

I have just upgraded to a Deckel clone. RPM is high well over 3000 but the big thing is amount of cut, only a 0.001" or 2 at a time so heating is minimal.

I have a 6" grinder I rarely use any more, be cause I built a 2x72 belt grinder. Its faster and transfers less heat with aggressive cuts.

Knowing what I know now (and had I had this wisdom 40 years ago) my first purchase (or build) would be a 2x72 belt grinder (dyi built during Covid for a product line) for all purpose (and wood tool) grinding. Second would be a Deckel clone for metal working bits and drill bits.

Skip the Drill Doctor (yes I have 2 model 750's, which I will be selling, since I now have the Deckel clone) they do work extremely well but have limitations that can cause serious frustrations when you hit them. Yes I've used them for years, but have exceeded their limitations, unfortunately this is where I need the now. If you have the budget upgrade to the Deckel but it is not for the thin walleted as an all in investment is around $2K if you get a good deal.

If you only need it for drill bits a
https://www.kbctools.ca/itemdetail/1-805-825 and a belt grinder (or 6 or 8" grinder), no split points (the 750 does that really well), the Deckel doesn't, but it does do 4 facet grinds flawlessly. If you need a split point a sharp wheel and good hands/eye and you can free hand it (old school).

Wet wheel while nice (and relatively cost effective) I would pick a belt grinder first.

Carbide tooling, diamond only is my recommendation.

BTW while you can get the Deckel clone from a few sources in Canada, get it from SHARS in the USA (they don't ship Canada with this product thats your solution), is it is one of the few that has a 5C collet, most use a U2 system (good luck in getting those) or an R8 which is better (Accusize), still limits application because of collets.

 

[LenVW]

I did get good at sharpening machine tools on a belt sander
. . . back in the 1980s !!
The backing plate served as a good flat reference. So I thought I would get a ‘desktop belt sander‘ for my growing home shop.
I will have to let you know, after I get it in 3 weeks.
It is coming from HongKong.

 

[PeterT]

BTW while you can get the Deckel clone from a few sources in Canada, get it from SHARS in the USA (they don't ship Canada with this product thats your solution), is it is one of the few that has a 5C collet, most use a U2 system (good luck in getting those) or an R8 which is better (Accusize), still limits application because of collets.

Coincidental that you mention this. I was just about to send Shars an email to see if/how much the 5C block assembly would cost. The idea being to swap it for the R8 assuming it fits. Over the phone they weren't opposed to it, but I wont know for sure until I post the PN details. Now whether it fits & whether the cost warrants is another consideration. I have full set of 5C collets but, limited R8. Didn't really bother me too much at the time (due to the Shars shipping). But when I eventually get my butt in gear & start using it, might be something to ponder. I wish they just made collet type a selectable item when you order, but maybe there are other considerations. OTOH it might be a matter of replicating the collet holder barrel but I haven't dug into that aspect yet.

I'd like to see some of the things you've done on your TCG.

Universal End Mill Cutter Drill Bit Grinder Sharpener

www.shars.com

 

[Former Member]

@PeterT you want me to post some pics of the belt grinder?

 

[Susquatch]

The type you’d see 50 years ago, going door to door sharpening knives.

The SHEENIE man!

And don't forget the snake oil man!

 

[PeterT]

@PeterT you want me to post some pics of the belt grinder?

I'm more interested in the Deckel clone = TCG = Tool Cutter Grinder

 

[deleted_user]

Along with my clamp and ruler fetish, I appear to be developing a grinder fetish… I mean I have two 6” grinders already…

Anyway, I’m looking for an 8” grinder that has dust collection ports and which I’ll also to set up nice grinding rest on (I’ve purchased the eccentric engineering one).

If it’s feasible, I’ll likely use it for sharpening both metalworking tools and for regrinding the primary bevel on woodworking tools. (Regularly dipping woodworking tools in water to cool them down doesn’t seem like a big hassle for me).
I’d probably set it up with an Aluminum Oxide wheel for HSS tool bits and a Silicon Cabride wheel for Tungsten Carbide tool bits.

If you were making a similar purchase, would you look at a low speed grinder, or stick with regular speed?

Thanks in advance for your advice.

I use two 6" CBN wheels I use exclusively for woodworking tools. And bunch of different grinder options for metal grinding.. and a tool and cutter grinder. Yet I feel compelled to make a 2x72 belt grinder as well.

So what I think I am saying is that options are nice to have

 

[Former Member]

Sorry misunderstood. Currently have started getting used to how it is grinding and the motion is. The biggest thing I have done is relief cut a 10mm carbide endmill to allow deeper boring, specialized application as the unground shank would drag and create issues. Couple of 0.001 was all that was needed. Second was a standard drill grind, good works well. Then did a few 4 facet bits 1/2" and 3/16" was really impressed with the cutting action. Here I use 7 and 20 for the angles.

As to sharpening endmills, working on that....there seems to be two schools of thought here, cut outside in or inside out. For 2 flutes it dies matter, for more I feel that outside in is the only method (don't accidentally drag a edge into the stone).

Still have to make an arbor take off tool.

Considering I've only had it for about a month and have a lot of other project on the go, it becomes a learn and use as needed. Its definitely a worth while investment for any shop, but it does have a longer ROI.

Any advice or skills you might add.

 

[PeterT]

Any advice or skills you might add.

In this particular regard I am a sheepish underachiever, you are already ahead by a distance! LOL. I bought it some time ago because I had plans/requirements to make specific cutters. But one by one I solved those issues in other ways, so it always took a back seat to other priorities. I need to locate it to a proper work area but even that is a rather lame excuse. I'm going to make a concerted effort to start working with it in the near future.

 

[Former Member]

In this particular regard I am a sheepish underachiever, you are already ahead by a distance! LOL. I bought it some time ago because I had plans/requirements to make specific cutters. But one by one I solved those issues in other ways, so it always took a back seat to other priorities. I need to locate it to a proper work area but even that is a rather lame excuse. I'm going to make a concerted effort to start working with it in the near future.

I think you and I are going to have to share some notes to progress faster

 

[combustable herbage]

I came across this one on kijiji in Calgary looks like a nice setup.

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[StevSmar]

Thankyou @whydontu , @Degen , @LenVW , @PeterT , @TorontoBuilder and @combustable herbage for the suggestions!!

Thankyou too to @Susquatch for introducing me to the SHEENIE man.

Since I don’t have a vey large shop, to grind tools I’ll either have to go to the garage to do it, or have dust collection to try to minimize grinding dust getting on the lathe’s ways. That’s probably how I’m trying to justify getting yet another grinder (plus the others will then have permanently mounted wheels: scotchbrite, wire, general fine grinding, general coarse grinding)

That’s interesting the number of suggestions for a grinding belt, I‘ve heard they are great for sharpening tools. I could have four grinders then…
(Actually, I’m a bit wary of the belt grinder option because it seems like it might be tough to do adequate dust collection?).
I’ve been following a 2x72(?) grinder build on HobbyMachinist, it’s definitely intriguing though I don’t have the room for one of those.

I’d love to have a Quorn or D-bit grinder, but either of those are “future tools” for me once I’ve got more experience under my belt.

 

[LenVW]

Steven,
Dust collection is just some properly shaped metal ducts and enough air flow to handle the volume of material. I was a Technical Sales Rep for a large dust collector company and it is not rocket science.
Since we are working with metal particles you do have to be careful with sparks and hot dust. That is why I said metal ducts in the introduction above.
Alternatively, I have been using a ‘Cool & Collect’ version of clean-up for my milling and grinding.
If an operation generates ’hot’ cuttings, I simply use ducts or barriers to guide the material to a non-flammable steel container and leave them to cool before disposal.
No chance of igniting a shop vac bag or hi volume filter.

 

[Susquatch]

Thankyou too to @Susquatch for introducing me to the SHEENIE man.

Don't forget the milk man, the bread man, the coal man, and..... The snake oil man!

 

[deleted_user]

Thankyou @whydontu , @Degen , @LenVW , @PeterT , @TorontoBuilder and @combustable herbage for the suggestions!!

Thankyou too to @Susquatch for introducing me to the SHEENIE man.

Since I don’t have a vey large shop, to grind tools I’ll either have to go to the garage to do it, or have dust collection to try to minimize grinding dust getting on the lathe’s ways. That’s probably how I’m trying to justify getting yet another grinder (plus the others will then have permanently mounted wheels: scotchbrite, wire, general fine grinding, general coarse grinding)

That’s interesting the number of suggestions for a grinding belt, I‘ve heard they are great for sharpening tools. I could have four grinders then…
(Actually, I’m a bit wary of the belt grinder option because it seems like it might be tough to do adequate dust collection?).
I’ve been following a 2x72(?) grinder build on HobbyMachinist, it’s definitely intriguing though I don’t have the room for one of those.

I’d love to have a Quorn or D-bit grinder, but either of those are “future tools” for me once I’ve got more experience under my belt.

For raw power and versatility you can't beat a good 2x72 belt grinder. Adequate dust collection would require high static pressure fan ergo a dust collector system. A wide tapering air collection box will assure wide capture area and adequate velocity to the air movement.

You want to design in a spark arrestor trap that catches the metal and abrasives, you empty the sludge every once in a while

A Quorn is on my list of tools I'd love to build... casting kits are available but costly. I am going to make my own one day, I think using investment casting process. The fellow I bought my old barnes lathe from had a quorn he'd made, he was asking more for it than the lathe... I had to pass at the time. I regret that decision

 

[deleted_user]

BTW, martin model has casting sets for the Mk1 for $445 USD available Feb 15th... and the Mk2 for $495 USD.

Tom Blough has great info and plans on his site and a build log that is worth a look

QUORN TOOL AND CUTTER GRINDER

Hemingway has the Mk3 kits for £700 and the plans alone for £61.25

 

[Former Member]

I missed buying a Journey Man grinder for about $1500.00 they list currently for about US$8,000.00

Exceeds the Deckels (and the Quorn) by a long shot.

BTW thanks TB for bringing the Quorn to my attention, more info to process.

 

[PeterT]

Wow, that is quite the machine. And price <gulp>

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