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Electric panel questions.
- Thread starter Perry
- Start date
A separate octagonal junction? If I'm reading this correctly, another separate box with my junctions in it. Then feed my wire to the light mounting box?
The front of the garage has three boxes. One between the two doors and one on either side. So I would feed into a junction box. Split my three feeds. One to each light box. Terminating each feed in each light fixture.
That's the way I read @Dabbler s suggestion.
But I'd be starting a debate with whoever wrote that code. Unless they accept the no pigtails version I suggested earlier.
That said, pigtails are actually a requirement for interior wiring. Electricians frequently ignore this and use the device terminals instead. But it's there to try to prevent a problem with a half live circuit and most inspector's will catch it.
Dabbler
ersatz engineer
You are not allowed to bury an octagonal (junction) box so it is inaccessible.
One New years eve, hours before 40 people were to arrive I lost all power in my living room/dining/kitchen area. It took 45 minutes and a signal tracer to find an Oct box that was full of drywall mud, and a fried connection. We finished the fix minutes before the first guests were to arrive.
When I had my garage inspected and the inspector said the same thing. (Alberta weirdness?)
I had to comply with this rule to get my wiring passed in Calgary. Since I only have 2 outside boxes, one light, and one plug on separate circuits, it wasn't a problem for me. He mentioned it if I ever was to put a second light on the outside, then I'd have to use an inside junction box. I don't know why, but I wish I did.
Ok, still up researching this. Re reading the posts here and maybe I'm overthinking this.....
but this line from Dabbler has me wondering...
"Your weatherproof box mounts on the outside or inside"
I installed regular octagonal boxes from the inside prior to the stucco going on so they would be flush after the stucco was complete. My understanding is the outdoor light fixtures sit up against this with a seal and that is all that would be required. Do I need a special box in these locations? Weather proof?
(Still easy to change at this point)
Not finding any thing online or in my Electrical Code Simplified House Wiring Guide by PS KNIGHT 2021.
but this line from Dabbler has me wondering...
"Your weatherproof box mounts on the outside or inside"
I installed regular octagonal boxes from the inside prior to the stucco going on so they would be flush after the stucco was complete. My understanding is the outdoor light fixtures sit up against this with a seal and that is all that would be required. Do I need a special box in these locations? Weather proof?
(Still easy to change at this point)
Not finding any thing online or in my Electrical Code Simplified House Wiring Guide by PS KNIGHT 2021.
Yup, that's the case nationwide. The reason is simple. Bad connections create heat. Many Electrical Fires start at a bad connection. If that connection is inside a wall nobody sees the smoke until its too late.
Ouch. Bet your boss was royally pissed! Also betting it was all your fault no matter what really happened!
Yup, arguing with the inspector is like shooting yourself in the foot.
But as I said in my last post, I'd sure like to talk to the folks who wrote that into the code. FWIW, I looked through the national code last night and couldn't find any reference to it. So last night I set my mind to why "might" it be code? The only thing I could come up with is extra connections.
Four more (three for the hot pigtail and one for the extra neutral) than otherwise - all in a location where nobody would ever see or smell smoke.
The other connections thing that crept into my dreams last night was the extreme temperature cycling you guys get in Alberta. Temperature cycles could stress and loosen connections over time. So again, it's in everyone's best interest to minimize the number of connections. Perhaps that kind of thinking made it into the code.
But wow, talk about extra wiring! My house has 12 exterior lights (mostly pot lights) on the front of the house all controlled from one switch at the front door and 10 lights at the back of the house all controlled from two 3-way switches at both back doors. You would practically need a breaker box to distribute all those connections if you are not allowed to daisy chain them. You sure are not doing in in a standard junction box!
So this probably (I have no Alberta expertise) depends on where it is outside. If it's in the soffit, it isn't needed. If it's on the wall (as you said it was) it should be weatherproof. Frankly, I would do weatherproof no matter where it is.
Although I agree that this makes sense, I'd want to confirm that with the inspector himself.
Johnwa
Ultra Member
The restriction applies when you use a shallow box that fastens on the outside of the exterior sheeting for your light. There’s only room for the one set of wires. I don’t know if it applies if you use a full depth box or whether that depends on the inspector. My 1973 house has full depth boxes and pigtails. I assume it passed inspection back then but times change. There’s also not a gasket to be found.
Dabbler
ersatz engineer
I was just about to add the same when John Wa piped in (Thanks BTW)...
To clarify: that there are 2 types of mountings for external weatherproof lights: one that fastens to an existing octagonal box as per Perry's post #147, and totally enclosed and sealed boxes that mount entirely on the outside of the building. The code for installing each of was different. that's where it gets confusing and a little weird.
The totally enclosed boxes that mount on the FRONT of the stucco or siding cannot contain anything other than a termination. no pigtails, no marettes, nothing. The ones that use an existing inside octagonal box and mount on top used to allow the normal number of connections (I think 6, it was a long time ago) BUT that was deprecated and now for new installations they are treated the same as flush mount.
My only explanation is to remove the confusion as to the two types of boxes. Who know for sure? I know some inspectors don't care about the extra connections but some now do.
Something Johnwa said sparked a neuron. What type of boxes do I actually have installed?
I physically went and checked, because apparently I can no longer trust my memory.
This photo answers everything. I'm sorry. I would have bet my life savings these where regular 4" boxes 1.5" deep. I installed these 5 years ago, but I still have the memory that I had cut through the sheathing to install them from the inside. ( I claim insanity for my defense.)
Ok, thank you for the help. Sorry for wasting your time. Let the flaming and roasting begin.
I physically went and checked, because apparently I can no longer trust my memory.
This photo answers everything. I'm sorry. I would have bet my life savings these where regular 4" boxes 1.5" deep. I installed these 5 years ago, but I still have the memory that I had cut through the sheathing to install them from the inside. ( I claim insanity for my defense.)
Ok, thank you for the help. Sorry for wasting your time. Let the flaming and roasting begin.
Electrical finished. Final inspection tomorrow. Furnace and gas complete. Final inspection on Monday.
It was a little cool at 07:30 this morning, but the sunny day took the chill off pretty fast. I think I can say we beat the snow.
Interesting part of the switch over. Enmax reused the feeder from the pole . Disconnected at the house. Shortened. and re attached at garage. I figured they would have ran a larger cable.
Tomorrow I have Shaw coming in to deal with their connection. It will be going to the new data mast on the garage and then into the house.
What I forgot was there is still aTelus line. Not sure if I should get them to run a new one into the house. I don't have a house phone. That was disconnected years ago.
Furnace was running and blowing heat today. I won't be able to use it until final gas inspection is done.
Looks like I'm almost ready to start wiring the garage part of the project.
It was a little cool at 07:30 this morning, but the sunny day took the chill off pretty fast. I think I can say we beat the snow.
Interesting part of the switch over. Enmax reused the feeder from the pole . Disconnected at the house. Shortened. and re attached at garage. I figured they would have ran a larger cable.
Tomorrow I have Shaw coming in to deal with their connection. It will be going to the new data mast on the garage and then into the house.
What I forgot was there is still aTelus line. Not sure if I should get them to run a new one into the house. I don't have a house phone. That was disconnected years ago.
Furnace was running and blowing heat today. I won't be able to use it until final gas inspection is done.
Looks like I'm almost ready to start wiring the garage part of the project.
Attachments
Lowe's has it. They will sell online.
Do you have an electrical jobber outfit there?
+1 EECOL
