Electric Panel Electrical Box
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Electric panel questions.
- Thread starter Perry
- Start date
Electric Panel Electrical Box
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Sorry, one more question.......
This is from the NEC not the Canadian code...... but better to check now....
Ambient temperature — PVC conduit isn’t permitted to be installed if the ambient temperature exceeds 50°C (122°F) [Sec. 352.12(D)].
and
Concealed — PVC conduit can be concealed within walls, floors, or ceilings, directly buried or embedded in concrete in buildings of any height [Sec. 352.10(A)].
I'm guessing that the Sche40 PVC is ok in the attic of the garage? I could see it being pretty warm in there on a hot summer day.
This is from the NEC not the Canadian code...... but better to check now....
Ambient temperature — PVC conduit isn’t permitted to be installed if the ambient temperature exceeds 50°C (122°F) [Sec. 352.12(D)].
and
Concealed — PVC conduit can be concealed within walls, floors, or ceilings, directly buried or embedded in concrete in buildings of any height [Sec. 352.10(A)].
I'm guessing that the Sche40 PVC is ok in the attic of the garage? I could see it being pretty warm in there on a hot summer day.
Not sure about your diagram. Sorry I confused this, in your situation you wont have to be too concerned about this as you will have fittings on both ends, you will just start with the spigot or male end in a fitting connect it to the box/panel and proceed to the end of the run and installing a connector there and attaching it to the box/panel
For my previous shop, I ran 2" conduit and #6 insulated (including green insulated ground). All conduit glued, straight run, with the only bends being the riser out of the ground and the 90 into the building. pulling #6 through 2" was pretty easy.
Thank you. Sorry that little text drawing got reformatted once I submitted the post. Basically it showed the main panel on the left. An electrical box on the right. The bell mouth on the left side of conduits positioned between the two. Apparently I'm no artist.
Thank you. Sorry that little text drawing got reformatted once I submitted the post. Basically it showed the main panel on the left. An electrical box on the right. The bell mouth on the left side of conduits positioned between the two. Apparently I'm no artist.
Your drawing made absolutely perfect sense to me Perry!
The rabbit hole goes deeper.
My main panel in the garage is surface mounted. The lack of 6/3 NMD90 has pushed me to run a PVC conduit for the heavier 50 amp circuit I would like to install.
The next question I came up with well getting this straight in my head. I will run the conduit out the right side of the panel and go directly into a 90 degree heading upwards. With the NMD90 I would have just gone up between the studs, drilled thru the top plate.
What to do here? I don't think I can flex the conduit in the stud space, plus that just doesn't seem right.
Plywood up the wall to the ceiling above the panel and plywood the right side of the panel to the ceiling. Run everything on the surface. Then build a cover box with quick release fasteners for easy access. Button-fix https://button-fix.com/products Interesting item. There is a gent on youtube building some nice boxes to hide utilities.
I think I will try to run most of my circuits out the right side of the panel.
The panel is stuck between the door and the window. Not the best location. This is because of the clearance issue in the alley. Needed the main mast to be as close to the peak of the roof on the yard side. This stationed the meter outside next to the door and the panel of course ends up beside the door on the inside.
My main panel in the garage is surface mounted. The lack of 6/3 NMD90 has pushed me to run a PVC conduit for the heavier 50 amp circuit I would like to install.
The next question I came up with well getting this straight in my head. I will run the conduit out the right side of the panel and go directly into a 90 degree heading upwards. With the NMD90 I would have just gone up between the studs, drilled thru the top plate.
What to do here? I don't think I can flex the conduit in the stud space, plus that just doesn't seem right.
Plywood up the wall to the ceiling above the panel and plywood the right side of the panel to the ceiling. Run everything on the surface. Then build a cover box with quick release fasteners for easy access. Button-fix https://button-fix.com/products Interesting item. There is a gent on youtube building some nice boxes to hide utilities.
I think I will try to run most of my circuits out the right side of the panel.
The panel is stuck between the door and the window. Not the best location. This is because of the clearance issue in the alley. Needed the main mast to be as close to the peak of the roof on the yard side. This stationed the meter outside next to the door and the panel of course ends up beside the door on the inside.
Attachments
Not super hard stuff to do, once you have a good plan. I'm just trying to make sure I have a good approach and there is nothing better but to learn from someone that has gone thru the same process.
The NMD90 would have made me lazy.....lol. I would have just fed it between the studs. Now I'm learning something. Probably better access for down the line when I need to add/alter something. I've tried to find photos online of how others have mounted surface mount panels in the garage, but nothing good .......yet.
The basement shop does have its pluses. I have all of my stuff downstairs. This will allow me to bring some of the larger stuff out to the garage and make some room.
The NMD90 would have made me lazy.....lol. I would have just fed it between the studs. Now I'm learning something. Probably better access for down the line when I need to add/alter something. I've tried to find photos online of how others have mounted surface mount panels in the garage, but nothing good .......yet.
The basement shop does have its pluses.
I have all of my stuff downstairs. This will allow me to bring some of the larger stuff out to the garage and make some room.
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Boy, I didn't realize how much work this endeavor would involve
I agree with Perry, it isn't the work. It's all the challenges!
But from what I have seen so far, the end result will be something @Perry will be very proud of and well worth doing.
I wish with all my heart that I could have helped design and install the wiring in my existing shop (and a few other things). I did it in my old shop and I loved the result. This one was already built when I bought it.
Overall, I love the shop, but I don't like the electrical, the lights, the leaky roof, or the concrete floor.
@Perry - did you check the farm supply places in your area for the 6-3. I saw piles of wiring at Peavy mart yesterday, but no 6-3.
Yes, I did. Peavy mart only seemed to have the smaller 14 and 12 gauge stuff. Tried Home Hardware too. They no longer have stores in Calgary. They have stores in some of the smaller areas. I'm out to Canmore every couple days so I tried them with no luck.
I have kind of given up hope. I'm planning the PVC route. Stuck on the best method of routing the cables and the PVC from the panel. It appears most setups use all conduit or all NMD90. I'll be mixing the two. Hard to find a few good photos of main electric panels to get ideas from.
Did you try a Google "image" search?
What is your timing on this? If I found some around here would you be interested?
How is your stomach for the cost of 4 gauge?
My last shop I ran conduit to the house (riser/lb) into a box on the east side of the house where I terminated (Joined) the insulated lines to nmd 90 (#6) and ran another 60 feet to the panel on the west side
It passed inspection then (2002) but who knows what is good today .
It passed inspection then (2002) but who knows what is good today .
I have searched. Not finding any good ideas or photos. You can see the photos in my post 207. If I come out of the box at the bottom right with a PVC 90, normally that would be mounted on the surface. If I use a few 45 degree bends I can joggle the PVC back into the wall cavity and then head up between the studs. I have 2X6 walls but still leave very little room to clamp the PVC and then leave room for future 14 and 12 gauge runs to be secured. You can see the large Tech cable already taking up one side of the cavity. (That feeds the 100 amp panel in the house).
Timing? No rush, but I was hoping to get the permit last week and start on it. I held off because I did not have a complete plan with out the 6/3 NMD90.
This week coming up I was planning on using the PVC . Just got back from the Home Depot and they have everything I need to go the PVC route.
Just can not get my head around the feed from the panel to the ceiling area. (Taking into account the other feeds will most likely have to come out the right side of the panel also.
4 gauge would be hard to work with. Cost is also not good. This one Nema 14-50 plug is going to be approx $1000. That is using the 6/3 NMD90. The 240V 50 GFCI breaker alone is $290. Things have gotten to be expensive. I don't even have a use for this plug currently. (but if I don't install it......you know that goes...)
If you found 11 meters of 6/3 NMD90 I would need to figure out how to move it to Calgary, but it wouild make things a lot easier. Brent checked out east before he left with no joy.
Sooner the electrical is done, the sooner I can move on to insulating. No use having a furnace with no insulation.
Sorry, my post probably confused you. When I said "I'll be mixing the two." I meant I will have NMD and PVC runs coming out of the same electrical panel.
Usually they run NMD with a flush mounted panel and the cable in between the studs. The surface mount panel setup tends to have the conduit runs. (This is from my limited knowledge of searching the internet)
Ok. I'm just trying to gauge how much effort on my end is warranted. If it would be for naught, I won't bother. I may make a quick call to my big supplier in Chatham. It's a small enough big place that I might get lucky. Shipping is still an issue though.
Sorry I can't visualize your conduit conundrum.
Sorry I can't visualize your conduit conundrum.
Dabbler
ersatz engineer
@Perry - I think we have our 'wires' crossed (pun intended ) You only need the conduit between the house beaker panel and the sub panel. The rest can be done with lumex (th white stuff) This should simplify all the things you need to do, as you can wire your plugs now, even before you get the 6ga run done.
$1000 for a plug? Perhaps there has been some crosstalk here. I was referring to a standard 50A stove plug (4 contact) for your welders - they cost between 20$ and 30$ each...
) You only need the conduit between the house beaker panel and the sub panel. The rest can be done with lumex (th white stuff) This should simplify all the things you need to do, as you can wire your plugs now, even before you get the 6ga run done.$1000 for a plug? Perhaps there has been some crosstalk here. I was referring to a standard 50A stove plug (4 contact) for your welders - they cost between 20$ and 30$ each...
I would appreciate that. You just never know.
I purchased a Beck Spyder (replica of a Porsche 550 Spyder ) back in the day from Chatham. Good memories.
@Perry - I think we have our 'wires' crossed (pun intended
$1000 for a plug? Perhaps there has been some crosstalk here. I was referring to a standard 50A stove plug (4 contact) for your welders - they cost between 20$ and 30$ each...
I'm referring to the complete circuit run for just the 240V 50 amp branch. Just doing the math. It will be more like $700 for the one branch. For a car charger they do not recommend the cheaper Nema 14-50 sockets. ( Some do not have full width contacts in them. ) Hubbell part # HBL9450A or the Eaton/Cooper/Arrow HART 5754N is a better unit and they run around $100. Cable is around $240. Breaker $290. Box and cover plate $30. Plus hardware. This is based on the NMD90 cable.
The garage panel (200 main) and house (100 sub) are already finished and passed inspection. The lumex (th white stuff) AKA the NMD 90 6/3 is not availible anywhere in Canada. My plan is to use 3/4" PVC from garage panel to the Nema 14-50 plug with RW90 conductors inside.
It's this conduit run I'm having my issues with.
PVC conduit will come out the right side and turn 90 degrees upward. Do I joggle it with a couple 45's to get in in between the stud spacing? Where do I clmap it to? The 2X6 stud? If I do that I will not have a lot of room to secure my small circuit feeds.
The Tech cable takes up a lot of the space in that cavity. If this was a solid wall like in a basement you would just run it on the surface. Should I plywood in that right side and run PVC and cables on the surface?
