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AXA Tool Holder(s)

Susquatch said:
Silly question @YYCHM .

Why not cut the dovetail on your mill instead of on your shaper?
Click to expand...
The answer for me would be (if I had a shaper trying to do this of course) is I can easily create a cutter from HSS. I don't have a large 60 degree dovetail cutter for the mill. But I don't have a shaper so I'd have to buy a dovetail cutter and use the mill.

Or would I?

Having said that I do have, and they are fairly cheap, a set of three fly cutters bought at Busy Bee Tools ages ago.
www.busybeetools.com

Buy Fly Cutter 1/2" 3pc Set at Busy Bee Tools

Fly Cutter SetTop QualityCounter balancedMade of hardened steelUses standard tool-bitsShank Dia.: 1/2"Includes Head Dia.: 3/4", 1 1/8", 1 1/2"Standard Tool Bit Size: 3/16", 1/4", 5/16"
www.busybeetools.com www.busybeetools.com

I guess once could create a 60 degree tool for one of those. The depth of cut is 0.383" so likely a 3/8" piece of HSS would just work although it would have to be ground down to 5/16" to fit. Or 1/2" brazed to a piece of steel and then hardened again.

But again, if one has a shaper why not use it since that's the type of thing it was meant to do.
 
Six O Two said:
Using PeterT's linked dimensions, the theoretical opening with no radius is 1.198", assuming 60deg dovetails. Shars' numbers seem... fishy

View attachment 20465
Click to expand...

This sounds about right. When I created a 1.18" opening to start the dove tail it was a tad too narrow.

I'm not convinced these holders are actually 60 deg. Look to be 60 deg using a protractor but maybe they are actually 70 deg as someone has pointed out already.
 
YYCHM said:
This sounds about right. When I created a 1.18" opening to start the dove tail it was a tad too narrow.

I'm not convinced these holders are actually 60 deg. Look to be 60 deg using a protractor but maybe they are actually 70 deg as someone has pointed out already.
Click to expand...
FWIW
Here's a picture of a 60 degree dovetail cutter sitting in one of my import AXA tool holders
20220129_113945.jpg
 
Dan Dubeau said:
Bummer about the fitment, but the old saying goes, those who've never make mistakes, never make anything.
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Love it Dan. Great quote.

I saw an epitaph once that said, "Perfection is an insult to the Gods." I love that. Don't want to be incurring the wrath of those Gods— they're always casting out thunderbolts on mortals or throwing babies down mountainsides etc. Nasty business.

It was my tagline for years. It's a great model for the shop, as well as life actually.
 
Craig

There is a simple way to check the angle of your AXA dovetails. You could do the math but it's much easier to just use two different diameter dowel pins. 3/16 and 1/4 work well for AXA dovetails. Measure between the pins with an adjustable parallel. The differences may not be exactly what I have laid out depending on the accuracy of the dowel pins but you should see something close to 0.171" if the dovetail is actually 60 Degrees.

AXA DIMENSIONS.jpg
 
PeterT said:
If you give me the dimensions like my post #52 I can show a similar resultant angle.
Click to expand...

I can't provide those dimensions, all the corners and edges of the factory tool holders are rounded off (significantly).
 
CalgaryPT said:
Love it Dan. Great quote.

I saw an epitaph once that said, "Perfection is an insult to the Gods." I love that. Don't want to be incurring the wrath of those Gods— they're always casting out thunderbolts on mortals or throwing babies down mountainsides etc. Nasty business.

It was my tagline for years. It's a great model for the shop, as well as life actually.
Click to expand...
I can't take credit for it. Paul Edwards, a journeyman Patternmaker/Toolmaker I used to work with used to say it a lot. Great man, who taught me a lot.

Perfection is an insult to the gods is a good one too. Perfection is the enemy of completion is one that creeps into my projects all to often, and a constant struggle......

I need to make some of these into signs for the shop to remind myself sometimes lol
 
eotrfish said:
Craig

There is a simple way to check the angle of your AXA dovetails. You could do the math but it's much easier to just use two different diameter dowel pins. 3/16 and 1/4 work well for AXA dovetails. Measure between the pins with an adjustable parallel. The differences may not be exactly what I have laid out depending on the accuracy of the dowel pins but you should see something close to 0.171" if the dovetail is actually 60 Degrees.

View attachment 20472
Click to expand...

Rats.... don't have any dowel pins to try this with. All my endmills are 3/8 or 1/2 shank.
 
Janger said:
Turn down some stock to 1/4.
Click to expand...

Thought had crossed my mind all ready. Something else that occurred to me is that I need to devise a method of checking that the shaper head down feed is actually tracking 30 deg. So far I have assumed the angle graduations on the head swivel were accurate.
 
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YYCHM said:
Thought had crossed my mind all ready. Something else that occurred to me is that I need to devise a method of checking that the shaper head down feed is actually tracking 30 deg. So far I have assumed the angle graduations on the head swivel were accurate.
Click to expand...
I suppose, but there's only a 1/4" of dove tail flat available to check.
 
Use a last word indicator on it or extend it with a piece of hss clamped/pressed to its surface and read off it.
 
YYCHM said:
I can't provide those dimensions, all the corners and edges of the factory tool holders are rounded off (significantly).
Click to expand...
Ah, ok, I thought you were trying to work out a resultant dimension. @eotrfish has a good suggestion. As long as you have 2 identical dowels of 2 sizes his layout method will work.

And yes, that was my next question. How do you know the shaper is feeding at exactly the target angle. Usually those graduated lines are just to ballpark. It would be better if you could set a 60-deg triangle in there & traverse down a longer length with an indicator.

Backing up a bit, are you saying you do have a commercial 60-deg toolholder that fits your TP, or you don't even have that as a reference?
 
PeterT said:
Backing up a bit, are you saying you do have a commercial 60-deg toolholder that fits your TP, or you don't even have that as a reference?
Click to expand...

I have 5 commercial tool holders that fit the TP. They all appear to be 60 deg using a protractor as the measurement device. A 60 deg carbide insert appears to fit the dove tail just fine as well.

Yes... I need to check that the shaper tool head is actually tracking 30 deg down.
 
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