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AXA Tool Holder for Tapered Cut Off Blades

Don't you sleep? LOL!

What make of drill?

Cool that you reamed it.

I have a Cummins too..... Very interesting...... I'll have to try that! I assume you just used a torch to heat the block?

My backhoe bucket tooth pins are just big roll pins. No Bolts.

Sleep is for the weak. haha. No was busy all day, this is my time. Hope nobody minds,,,,,

i drilled it on my mill, with some probably American brand drill....we don;t really like the other kinds of drills around here.....

yes, rosebud torch, then drop er in the pail. Might take a few times before she gets the tint....that u want.

These were the actual linkage pins, the main guys. The guys you should always take care of, and never talk about.
 
Sleep is for the weak. haha. No was busy all day, this is my time. Hope nobody minds,,,,,

i drilled it on my mill, with some probably American brand drill....we don;t really like the other kinds of drills around here.....

yes, rosebud torch, then drop er in the pail. Might take a few times before she gets the tint....that u want.

These were the actual linkage pins, the main guys. The guys you should always take care of, and never talk about.

How can anyone mind? Logging onto the forum is a personal choice.

I will try that surface treatment the first chance I get. Lots of Cummins Black Oil to try it with.

Btw, I also use that oil to winter coat plow blades.

Any reason why diesel tractor engine oil wouldn't be just as effective? Even more of that laying around here. .
 
Couple of excellent videos on parting tools and holders, one with Joe Pie and the other with Quinn Dunki.

There's so many great tips here for the novice and those who've been there before, call it a refresher course. Enjoy!


 
No nothing to do with Bill LOL.... Slipped on some ice and went down hard on my hand. Two broken fingers, three wire pins. Old bones are brittle:(
At least yours was an understandable accident, not like that dipstick that stuck his finger in the milling machine a while back;)
Hope you heal quickly.
 
So then why wouldn't you do that all the time then?

This is an excellent question. Mostly because the answer isn't technical.

I am a man of science. I usually let facts, testing, and knowledge dictate what I do. I could never find any of that for parting upside down. Just many examples of people successfully doing it especially on smaller lathes.

Therefore, I mostly only do it because I have to and I almost always try to do it conventionally first. So it's somewhat more of a practical answer than a science one. If I could get my head around the science, I'd prolly feel differently.

The other piece of the answer is somewhat emotional. It feels uncomfortable to do it that way. Almost everyone does it conventionally. I don't like to be different. It feels uncomfortable to be so different. If it were really so much better, everyone else would do it too. But they don't. Why not? Your question could easily be asked differently - if it works so well, why doesn't everyone do it that way?

With your question as my motivation, I'd like to explore the process a bit more. Please forgive the lengthy discussion - or just stop reading here.

The reason that parting upside down works is mostly geometry.

With regular parting, the cutting tip can grab and can get pulled into the part - the resulting chatter and damage can be catastrophic. The other possible result is failure to cut at all. It just starts squealing against a part that becomes work hardened to the point that even a hack saw won't cut it. Then the only way to make progress is to do side cuts to expose new material and then progress in side-to-side steps. Yuk.

"I think" that the reason that parting upside down works so reliably is because it is more like using a hack saw. If the tip doesn't cut, it just bounces, or cuts a wee bit at a time till it finally gets enough bite to cut.

The reason for this is the geometry. An upside down tool bit doesn't get pulled into the work when it cuts, it just lifts up and away from the part. "I think" this is a bit analogous to the climb VS conventional milling situation where some backlash can allow a bit to "dig in" during climb milling with bad outcomes.

My main objection to parting upside down is probably my concern for the way that the saddle, cross slide, and compound are tied down. Normal parting exerts a downward compressive force on all the parts of the tool holding system against the bed. But upside down parting is trying to pull them apart. The system is designed to handle compressive forces with strong solid flat surfaces, not tensile forces trying to pull everything apart. I just don't know enough about how that all translates to the parts of the lathe so I am reluctant to do it unless I have to. That said, it has never been a problem and has always worked when other methods don't.

In summary, I am a chicken and I prefer to do what everyone else does. I only venture into unknown territory when I have no other viable choice. Hopefully I never have a problem and maybe in time I'll end up always doing it that way.

Prolly more said there than needed but at least I tried to answer a very worthy question. Thanks for asking it and making me think about it more than I would have otherwise.
 
Maybe this will help:


There are some formulae (to calculate deflection and feed rate) and concepts that the CNC crowd look for when parting off - applies to manual machines as well.

Of note: the concept to use a Y-axis parting blade with the insert mounted 90* to the conventional location which improves blade stiffness by 600%..
 
Maybe this will help:


There are some formulae (to calculate deflection and feed rate) and concepts that the CNC crowd look for when parting off - applies to manual machines as well.

Of note: the concept to use a Y-axis parting blade with the insert mounted 90* to the conventional location which improves blade stiffness by 600%..

Good stuff @RobinHood. I've never seen that y axis stuff before. I can understand the magic. But no Y on my machine.

Also good stuff on when to use various geometries - 2 or 3 cutting edges, thin VS thick inserts, etc. All things to consider next time conventional parting fails me.

I wish they addressed upside down parting but prolly too much to ask.
 
I wish they addressed upside down parting but prolly too much to ask.
If you look at some videos, it seems that the parting blade is upside down in the holder and the spindle is run in the opposite direction of the turning operation. Then again, some turning centers seem to do most of the machining on the away side from the operator. So upside down becomes a relative term… Perhaps they also look at where the parted piece ends up if they don’t use a secondary spindle to hold it. So, again, it depends on the required op as to which way they part off.
 
If you look at some videos, it seems that the parting blade is upside down in the holder and the spindle is run in the opposite direction of the turning operation. Then again, some turning centers seem to do most of the machining on the away side from the operator. So upside down becomes a relative term… Perhaps they also look at where the parted piece ends up if they don’t use a secondary spindle to hold it. So, again, it depends on the required op as to which way they part off.

Ya, it is a little vague/relative. I'm specifically referring to the uncommon practice of parting on the front of the lathe in reverse with an upside down parting blade. That's what I was describing above.

What I meant in my last comment was that I wish somebody like Sandvik would discuss the technical aspects of parting upside down in reverse on the front of the lathe.

All I can find is YouTube videos by jockies with no real depth of technical expertise on the matter. I'd like to see somebody with Sandvik's expertise cover the technique.
 
My intention with posting the videos above, besides just messing around, was to show that parting really isn't anything mystical, you don't need flood coolant (it would help tool life for sure), and power feed is the way to go. Some videos i've seen where guys are having problems they are hand feeding, or have loose gibs, bad tool geometry, too much stickout of the tool or work, loose spindle bearings or something else is wrong. Parting upside down or using a spring loaded holder can help, as they do self relieve cutting pressure, but usually something else is wrong.
 
My intention with posting the videos above, besides just messing around, was to show that parting really isn't anything mystical, you don't need flood coolant (it would help tool life for sure), and power feed is the way to go. Some videos i've seen where guys are having problems they are hand feeding, or have loose gibs, bad tool geometry, too much stickout of the tool or work, loose spindle bearings or something else is wrong. Parting upside down or using a spring loaded holder can help, as they do self relieve cutting pressure, but usually something else is wrong.

No worries. Your intention hit the mark - at least for me. It made me jealous and caused me to wonder why you can make it seem so easy and effortless, while I can't - at least not every single time.

That said, can you come and visit me and my lathe and show me how it's done? I keep thinking I must be missing something simple.

My Gibbs are tight, my lathe is in great shape, spindle is rock solid, nothing is loose, my part stickout is minimum, my tool stick out is minimum, my tool holder is tight, everything is square, tool is on center, tools are sharp, everything is as rigid rigid rigid as I know how to make it. Yet every once in a while it fails to part properly - I dunno, maybe one time in 10? When that happens, upside down ALWAYS works.

Your comment about the tool holder is one of my suspicions. Mine is a BXA piston style. It is tight but perhaps not as rigid as the wedge style. Hence my comments elsewhere about making a custom parting tool holder that sits right on the compound or perhaps even a one piece that replaces the tool holder and tool post. This project is high on my priority list.

I will also say that your comments about autofeed might be telling too. I generally don't use autofeed when parting. Why not? I'm scared of it. What if the tool grabs like it did on @YYCHM (without looking, I'm pretty sure it was Craig anyway). That's why I prefer the feel of hand control where I can dis-engage in the blink of an eye at the first sign of trouble.

Do you think the darn thing knows I'm afraid of it? I've heard that animals often bite if they sense your fear.... Maybe my lathe is the same! LOL!

No worries, @dfloen. I'm glad you shared your video and I was very impressed - and very jealous too. And it did help me give that fellow in the mirror another good look.....
 
I have had much better luck parting with power feed, with as an aggressive feed as she'll take. Constant pressure.

On my old Emco V10P, which is a fairly light machine, when i first got it, I had parting issues. It was like a resonant frequency that i seemed to hit all the time. Tightened up the spindle bearings and it was 75% gone. Solid toolpost (no coumpound) took care of the rest. It parted off great after that with a standard axa holder and blade.

@Susquatch , what kind of lathe is it that you have?
 
(without looking, I'm pretty sure it was Craig anyway)
Yup, that was me and I've tried every thing you mentioned from monolithic compound replacement tool post to dedicated cutoff tool holder. Parting off was still an operation I avoided until now.
 
I have had much better luck parting with power feed, with as an aggressive feed as she'll take. Constant pressure.

On my old Emco V10P, which is a fairly light machine, when i first got it, I had parting issues. It was like a resonant frequency that i seemed to hit all the time. Tightened up the spindle bearings and it was 75% gone. Solid toolpost (no coumpound) took care of the rest. It parted off great after that with a standard axa holder and blade.

@Susquatch , what kind of lathe is it that you have?

It is a 14x40 D1-5 with an oil bath gear head. It has change gears including a metric 127 gear and no threading selector. Sort of a medium duty machine in the small lathe category. It has a removable bed gap that I would never remove. It has both a flat and a V way on the front and on the back.

Here is a photo of her play area.

20220202_150650.jpg


Perhaps I should add that the backlash is all quite good. About 10 thou on the carriage, 3 on the cross slide, and 2 or so on the compound. Maybe I should lock the carriage when parting, but I have never done that.
 
@Susquatch That machine should have no trouble at all. My advice would be to try more/less rpm, feed speeds, etc. Maybe move the toolpost towards the center of the compound instead of hanging off the edge
 
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