What is there to hate about digital?!
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10-11 inch lathes -- Precision Matthews, Modern Tool
- Thread starter trlvn
- Start date
What is there to hate about digital?!
Well said!
I have a few similar sayings I like:
Never let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
Never forget that there are other people all over the world who would give everything to have your worst day.
There will always be someone who has more or better. Don't let that get in the way of enjoying what you have.
Envy is the enemy of happiness.
Don't waste your life wishing for tomorrow. It may never come.
Happiness is a choice. Unhappiness is a bad choice.
Prolly many many others.
But again, very well said. I do love my lathe and I enjoy using it at every opportunity I get.
Rauce
Ultra Member
Batteries? Long term reliability?
I use mitutoyo digital calipers at work because they’re fast to read and if anything goes wrong with them my employer will replace them.
At home I almost exclusively use analog measuring tools. I have a 0-1” digital mic that is great but I have an analog one in the same size as a backup.
Re: threading, for anything under 1/2” I like to use a die on a tailstock die holder. I make a lot of a certain part with M10x1 threads. I sell these things so time is money and the die in the tailstock just makes it so quick and easy.
I use mitutoyo digital calipers at work because they’re fast to read and if anything goes wrong with them my employer will replace them.
At home I almost exclusively use analog measuring tools. I have a 0-1” digital mic that is great but I have an analog one in the same size as a backup.
Re: threading, for anything under 1/2” I like to use a die on a tailstock die holder. I make a lot of a certain part with M10x1 threads. I sell these things so time is money and the die in the tailstock just makes it so quick and easy.
Very deep subject. I've written here about it before. "Sometimes" digital can lie. Analog never lies.
I did sensor technology and control systems for a large part of my career. At the heart of "almost" every digital system is an a/d converter which may or may not include either hardware or software programming. Far too many programmers are not system designers. They write software or design hardware control systems that do what they are told to make them do. But most have no clear understanding of what it really is that they are doing.
Would you want a heart surgeon operating on you who read about how to do it in a book but never did one before? Well, this applies to engineers too.
Most digital readouts depend on counting of some kind. They don't really measure distance or signal or any physical property like an analog system does. Instead, there is a circuit that does some kind of conversion and outputs pulses. Miss a pulse or count an extra one or introduce noise, and bingo - wrong answer.
Trust is earned, not given. Human nature has evolved to fear the unknown and to mistrust once lied to one time. I have fundamentally learned to distrust digital. Just because you see a number on the screen doesn't mean it's right.
I have learned to trust certain digital devices that have earned that trust. But I'm nowhere near ready to trust them completely.
I'll give you a few real world examples.
Weigh scales. I've tested literally hundreds of digital weigh scales. But I've yet to use one that gives reliable repeatable results. They are ALWAYS wrong. You can actually count on it! Even the very best ones routinely lie. On the other hand, a quality balance beam NEVER lies.
RPM Readouts. Prolly a great example of something that is close enough, but almost never perfect. Only a few have real time capabilities, and those that do are often very sensitive to noise.
Digital Calipers - I confess I like the Mitutoyo Digimatic Absolute Calipers. I have not been bitten yet, so trust is growing. But I do not trust any other ones I've used. Yet I do trust low cost manual ones. Nonetheless, even with good digital ones, my reference is always a good mechanical analog vernier. They never lie.
Perhaps a good way to express my feelings about digital goes like this:
I fundamentally don't trust the media. Whenever I read about something where I actually know the facts, they are wrong. Why should I trust them when I don't know? And why do they insist on interpreting the facts for me? I prefer to get my own interpretation. Same goes for digital.
Digital Readouts are a lot like that. People trust them just like they trust the media, but I don't.
I readily confess that digital readouts have come a very long way. And perhaps someday they will earn my trust. But for now, I prefer analog.
The jury is still out on the Ditron Digital Readout (DRO) I am installing on my mill. The convenience may win me over. But I am still wary. The manual documents several ways to correct them which include both linear and variable compensation. Merely reading about this made me nervous. From the gitgo I have been suspicious about how they work. I have not been able to find any reliable information. The best I can do is to speculate. They contain a magnetic strip which has a 2 mm pitch. While drilling the mounts, some swarf got on the scales and clearly shows the pitch.
So how does this work? I can only speculate that the read head contains two coils that generate a phased output which in turn creates a digital pulse based on the amplitude of the two different signals and that the readout counts these pulses to generate a digital displacement reading.
Any correction probably interpolates over the designated range. But even within the designated range, how accurate is it? Ditron claims the resolution of my scales is 1 micron. I can even display that resolution if I want. But quite honestly I seriously doubt their claim. I have mine set to imperial tenths and frankly, I'm even skeptical of that.
So that's my story. I understand if others feel differently. In fact I even understand that others may be better off ignoring my sentiments. Ignorance is bliss. We can agree to disagree.
Sometime when you are threading a few parts, I'd appreciate a photo or two.
Regardless, I can certainly appreciate your perspective. Time is money.
Well you could paint the ends of the wires with fluorescent paint so they stand out when dropped or use foam/styrofoam to hold all 3 wires so they don’t drop.
Ya, and believe it or not, I actually did most of that. I even got some plastic holders that are designed to help fumble fingered old fools like me hold the wires better.
But if I would have known what I know now, I'd have just bought a thread Micrometer right up front and totally bipassed feeling like I'd really rather shove those dumb wires up my A__ than use them as intended. And while I'm at it, let's be honest here. It's one thing to use those wires for a 10 TPI thread, but it's quite another to use them for a 24 or 36 tpi thread with eyes and hands that can't see the thread let alone which groove the wires are in. A threading micrometer is just a plain pleasure to use through the whole range.
trlvn
Ultra Member
OK, I made a decision: Busybee CX706.
I hope I don't regret it. Mostly it is due to the wishy-washy estimate from Precision Matthews of 'late-May or June' that's I'm afraid is going to turn into a much longer wait. Plus either the expense of having it shipped or the hassle of driving down to pick it up myself. It certainly doesn't hurt that the Busybee sale makes the machine a few hundred less than PM.
The CX706 is expected by mid-April and I've put down the minimum deposit.
Craig
[Don't look at Kijiji or Hibid. Don't look at Kijiji or Hibid. Don't look at Kijiji or Hibid. Don't look at Kijiji or Hibid. Don't look at Kijiji or Hibid. ...]
I hope I don't regret it. Mostly it is due to the wishy-washy estimate from Precision Matthews of 'late-May or June' that's I'm afraid is going to turn into a much longer wait. Plus either the expense of having it shipped or the hassle of driving down to pick it up myself. It certainly doesn't hurt that the Busybee sale makes the machine a few hundred less than PM.
The CX706 is expected by mid-April and I've put down the minimum deposit.
Craig
[Don't look at Kijiji or Hibid. Don't look at Kijiji or Hibid. Don't look at Kijiji or Hibid. Don't look at Kijiji or Hibid. Don't look at Kijiji or Hibid. ...]
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Congrats on making the decision. I'm sure you will enjoy your new purchase if you put to rest all the other "could have been." Enjoy for what it is...a new lathe within your budget and other constraints. That might all change someday but for now you can feel good about your decision. Cheers.
Hey, my dad used to say that a decision is what you have to make when you don't have enough info to make the answer obvious. So don't be afraid to make one. It's better than waiting forever for info that never comes.
Besides, my son was just telling me that his company ordered 6 new dump trucks in January. The truck company just called them and cancelled their order. No idea when they can build them. Won't accept a new order till they know new delivery and new cost. That kind of behaviour is new to me. But it's happening everywhere now.
Congrats on the new purchase Craig its always nice to get something new
and you will love the upgrade from your atlas which should get you a price on the market should you decide to sell it.
and you will love the upgrade from your atlas which should get you a price on the market should you decide to sell it.
trlvn
Ultra Member
Hey! I was just blathering on the internet. I never thought somebody would actually think I knew what I was saying!Trlvn you are a bad influence. I ordered the same machine yesterday, based it on your research. It's all your fault.
Did they give you the same mid-April ETA?
Craig
Hey! I was just blathering on the internet. I never thought somebody would actually think I knew what I was saying!
Did they give you the same mid-April ETA?
Craig
His is in stock.......
. LMAO!
terry_g
Ultra Member
Some reading while you wait for delivery. Here is a link to the owner's manual: https://www.busybeetools.com/content/product_manuals/CX706.pdf
Congrats 6.5!Trlvn you are a bad influence. I ordered the same machine yesterday, based it on your research. It's all your fault.