10-11 inch lathes -- Precision Matthews, Modern Tool

[trlvn]

Hi:

I'm edging toward upgrading from my tiny, beat-up Atlas 618 lathe and I thought I'd ask for input about new lathes. Whatever I choose has to go down the basement stairs, including a 90 degree corner, and into the available space which is ideally 51 inches or maximally about 60 inches.

Most everything I've read indicates that I'd be happy with a Precision Matthews 10" lathe. Probably the PM-1030V:

https://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/pm-1022v-pm-1030v/

The only negatives are the price (I'm waiting for a shipping quote) and that delivery would be late May 2022--at the earliest.

However, I've contact Modern Tool Ltd (Newmarket office) and they have an 11 X 26 offering that might fit the bill. In stock; in Ontario. I've requested some more information, including current pricing, but I wondered if anyone here has hands-on experience?

Modern Tool Ltd.

Find Manual Lathes, Saws, CNC Lathes, Brakes, CNC Milling Machining Centers and other equipment for sale at Modern Tool Ltd.

www.moderntool.com

The Modern CQ6 seems to have most of the basic features. 11" swing, 6.5 over the compound. Includes 3 and 4-jaw chucks plus steady and follow rests. A deficiency seems to be that it only has 6 speeds although it ranges from 150 rpm to 2400. It would be nice to have more choices especially in the lower end.

There is some stuff I can't figure out from the website:
* Does it have power cross-feed?
* Does the chuck have a standard mount or is it some Chinese oddball?
* Are the lead and cross feed screws metric or imperial? (IE does one rotation of the cross-feed equal 0.100 or something else?)
* The web page says it has a 4-way tool post but the photo clearly shows a QCTP. Which is it?

I've pretty much ruled out the Busybee and King Canada 10" lathes due to the 22 inches between centres. That just seems too limiting. Also, they just seem to be lower-rung Asian production; especially compared to the Precision Matthews offering.

Any other suggestions that I should look at? I have got an eye out for a good used lathe but the price/value equation seems to have flipped on its head recently!

Thanks,

Craig in Oakville

 

[eotrfish]

There is some stuff I can't figure out from the website:
* Does it have power cross-feed?
* Does the chuck have a standard mount or is it some Chinese oddball?

Craig

The Modern CQ6 does not appear to have power cross-feed and the chuck mount does look like some Chinese oddball.

Most everything I've read indicates that I'd be happy with a Precision Matthews 10" lathe. Probably the PM-1030V:

I know that the price of the PM 1127 VF LB is higher than the PM 1030V but I think you will quickly become disillusioned with the bolt-on chuck mount.

The PM 1127 VF LB
- has a D1-4 spindle which is infinitely quicker and more user friendly for chuck changes
- has seperate drive shaft so you don't wear out the lead screw and/or half nuts for normal turning
- has a 1.5" spindle bore

The PM 1127 VF LB is mechanically essentially a clone of the EMCO MAXIMAT SUPER 11. I've moved my Super 11 up and down basement stairs 3 times with no problems.

 

[DavidR8]

@trlvn doesn't Quinn (Blondihacks) use a PM-1030?
Looks plenty capable to me.

 

[trlvn]

@eotrfish Thanks. I'll have a look at the PM-1127 but I think it was quite a bit more money. Plus the increased length would mean that I'd have to put it in a much less desirable position in the shop.

@David_R8 Yes, I'm pretty sure that's what she has. She did a video on choosing a import lathe that I found extremely helpful. I've basically made a feature checklist out of the points she mentioned!

Both Precision Matthews and Modern Tool (MdT) got back to me promptly. I need to sit down and digest what I got from them. The starting point is that the PM is USD $3,762 delivered or about CAD $4,740.

The MdT 11X26 is CAD $3,485 including the stand (that I don't need) but not a QCTP. From the manual the MdT machine has both native inch and metric versions. I've asked them to clarify what they are selling.

Major differences:
Swing: MdT +1 inch on PM
Power cross-feed: PM yes, MdT no
Turning speeds: PM continuous, MdT only 6

At first look, that is a lot more money for the Precision Matthews machine. Is it worth it? Hmmm...

Craig
(Why, yes, I do have Scottish ancestors and I did inherit a wide cheap streak from them!)

 

[DavidR8]

@eotrfish Thanks. I'll have a look at the PM-1127 but I think it was quite a bit more money. Plus the increased length would mean that I'd have to put it in a much less desirable position in the shop.

@David_R8 Yes, I'm pretty sure that's what she has. She did a video on choosing a import lathe that I found extremely helpful. I've basically made a feature checklist out of the points she mentioned!

Both Precision Matthews and Modern Tool (MdT) got back to me promptly. I need to sit down and digest what I got from them. The starting point is that the PM is USD $3,762 delivered or about CAD $4,740.

The MdT 11X26 is CAD $3,485 including the stand (that I don't need) but not a QCTP. From the manual the MdT machine has both native inch and metric versions. I've asked them to clarify what they are selling.

Major differences:
Swing: MdT +1 inch on PM
Power cross-feed: PM yes, MdT no
Turning speeds: PM continuous, MdT only 6

At first look, that is a lot more money for the Precision Matthews machine. Is it worth it? Hmmm...

Craig
(Why, yes, I do have Scottish ancestors and I did inherit a wide cheap streak from them!)

IMHO the power crossfeed and continuously variable spindle speed is worth the money. Also, I would bet that there are more PM10-30s in the world so the user base will be greater which translates to more tips and tricks.

 

[SomeGuy]

FYI, the PM-1127 is very similar to the Craftex CX-701...there are differences that lean in the PM favour of course, but just as a reference point.

 

[YotaBota]

$1,000 USD for shipping the PM-1030, have you thought about a road trip? The net says it's about a 5 hour drive depending on conditions and how you drive. Might make the PM-1127 doable if it has more of what you want.

 

[Rauce]

I hadn’t realized until looking at the manual but the PM1030 has a keyed leadscrew/worm gear arrangement so that powerfeed operation doesn’t wear the threads. Not sure how smooth it is to engage/disengage though.

The other downside of the PM1030 vs. The 1127 is that it requires gear changes to switch from fine feeds to coarse feeds to threading.

 

[Darren]

Knowing the features I want in a lathe, and your space constraints, the PM1127 would be a decent machine. D1-4, 1.5" bore, power feed shaft, etc.

 

[DPittman]

I have the Busy Bee 10x22 version and don't believe there is much if any difference between it and the PM version. Although I often wish I had gone with the bigger brother 11/12 x 27 lathe. I just couldn't afford the extra cost and my bench space is at a bit of a premium.

I too upgraded from an Altlas 618 and consider my 10x22 lathe a wonderful upgrade and really like it for the most part. It does have power cross feed and an odd chuck mount but it isn't all that bad really. The variable speed is great. I know the current 10x22 BB lathes have a larger thru spindle hole than mine and I think the PM version always did.
While no doubt PM warranty and service will be superior to the almost non existent BB support, I think I'd consider the lathes themselves equal. How much is warranty and service worth?

 

[PeterT]

I hadn’t realized until looking at the manual but the PM1030 has a keyed leadscrew/worm gear arrangement so that powerfeed operation doesn’t wear the threads. Not sure how smooth it is to engage/disengage though.

This keyed power feed shaft (independent of the screw thread) is a very common way to transmit power from the headstock gear train to travers the carriage & cross slide. Even much bigger lathes. The gear ratio is quite low because of the worm gear, so slipping in & out is quite smooth & effortless. The wear over time primarily occurs on the brass type alloy worm gear.

 

[Darren]

This keyed power feed shaft (independent of the screw thread) is a very common way to transmit power from the headstock gear train to travers the carriage & cross slide. Even much bigger lathes. The gear ratio is quite low because of the worm gear, so slipping in & out is quite smooth & effortless. The wear over time primarily occurs on the brass type alloy worm gear.

I have never seen one with a slipping clutch though, which is a bit of a disadvantage compared to a machine with a dedicated feed rod. On a clutched feed rod, you can set a carriage stop to feed up to a shoulder, repeatedly, the carriage stops, clutch slips until you disengage feed. Very handy feature. Also handy in crash situations to protect the gear train. Of course the leadscrew should have a shear pin to do the same....

 

[Rauce]

This keyed power feed shaft (independent of the screw thread) is a very common way to transmit power from the headstock gear train to travers the carriage & cross slide. Even much bigger lathes. The gear ratio is quite low because of the worm gear, so slipping in & out is quite smooth & effortless. The wear over time primarily occurs on the brass type alloy worm gear.

What I hadn’t realized that there were small lathes that key the lead screw (with no seperate feed shaft) so that the leadscrew does double duty. I’d always assumed that any small lathe with just a leadscrew relied on a half nut for power feed.

There is a very large lathe at my work that has a keyed lead screw that serves both purposes like that. Makes sense in that scenario I guess, that leadscrew is 3TPI and at least 3” in diameter.

 

[trlvn]

I hadn’t realized until looking at the manual but the PM1030 has a keyed leadscrew/worm gear arrangement so that powerfeed operation doesn’t wear the threads. Not sure how smooth it is to engage/disengage though.

The other downside of the PM1030 vs. The 1127 is that it requires gear changes to switch from fine feeds to coarse feeds to threading.

Hi Rauce:

Both the PM1030V and the Modern Tool 11X26 require changing gears to go between feeding and threading. The PM has a 3-position selector to choose slow-med-fast feeds. The Modern has two 3-position selectors that give 9 feed rates.

Craig

 

[140mower]

South Bend is one of those makers with the keyed feedscrew in the 9a and 9b, as well as the 10k. But the 9c (the most basic machine) uses the lead screw and has no power cross feed.

 

[trlvn]

What I hadn’t realized that there were small lathes that key the lead screw (with no seperate feed shaft) so that the leadscrew does double duty. I’d always assumed that any small lathe with just a leadscrew relied on a half nut for power feed.

There is a very large lathe at my work that has a keyed lead screw that serves both purposes like that. Makes sense in that scenario I guess, that leadscrew is 3TPI and at least 3” in diameter.

The Blondihacks video mentioned earlier does a good job of explaining this.

I think it is pretty clever. It means that the force needed for feeding is transmitted through a fairly large key. So much less wear-n-tear on the nut or threads.

Craig

 

[PeterT]

I have never seen one with a slipping clutch though, which is a bit of a disadvantage compared to a machine with a dedicated feed rod. On a clutched feed rod, you can set a carriage stop to feed up to a shoulder, repeatedly, the carriage stops, clutch slips until you disengage feed. Very handy feature. Also handy in crash situations to protect the gear train. Of course the leadscrew should have a shear pin to do the same....

My Taiwan 14x40 has a rudimentary clutch on PF rod (only) which I see on similar makes of lathes. I'd call it more of an 'audible' safety feature, although I hear some people do trust it to run to a stop, which I don't. Its basically a split housing with the PF shaft on one side & headstock output on the other. It contains sprung bearing balls sitting in a vee groove. When torque is exceeded, the balls come out of the vee detent groove allowing the PF rod to spin free with a loud rackety-rack sound. There is also a shear pin if that fails. (There is only a shear pin on the threading rod).

I'd love a lathe with a dedicated disengage like for threading. Takes the drama out of approaching a shoulder & upside down tools going in reverse & all that rigmarole. More parts = more money. But they do exit.

 

[Darren]

My Taiwan 14x40 has a rudimentary clutch on PF rod (only) which I see on similar makes of lathes. I'd call it more of an 'audible' safety feature, although I hear some people do trust it to run to a stop, which I don't. Its basically a split housing with the PF shaft on one side & headstock output on the other. It contains sprung bearing balls sitting in a vee groove. When torque is exceeded, the balls come out of the vee groove detent & make a loud rackety-rack sound. There is also a shear pin if that fails. (There is only a shear pin on the threading rod).

I'd love a lathe with a dedicated disengage like for threading. Takes the drama out of approaching a shoulder & upside down tools going in reverse & all that rigmarole. More parts = more money. But they do exit.

My Emco has a similar clutch on the feed rod, and it works very well with the carriage stop. Handy for making multiple parts to the same dimensions, or multiple passes, ie large step in the work piece. It is the same, only a shear pin on the leadscrew. On my SM1660, it has threading stops for threading into a shoulder. Along with leadscrew reverse for threading.

 

[trlvn]

$1,000 USD for shipping the PM-1030, have you thought about a road trip? The net says it's about a 5 hour drive depending on conditions and how you drive. Might make the PM-1127 doable if it has more of what you want.

No, the shipping quote is USD $389 for trucking plus $79 lift gate service. I would probably go with the lift gate since it isn't that much. The killer is the 1.265 exchange rate right now.

From here in Oakville, the Maps app says 4.5 hours driving. A 9 hour round trip is doable but I'd have to check closely about whether it would fit in my vehicle. Hmmm

Craig

 

[Rauce]

Hi Rauce:

Both the PM1030V and the Modern Tool 11X26 require changing gears to go between feeding and threading. The PM has a 3-position selector to choose slow-med-fast feeds. The Modern has two 3-position selectors that give 9 feed rates.

Craig

I was referring to the PM1127 but that was a mistake, I see it also requires change gears same as the 1030. The one of I was thinking of was the PM1228, which has all feeds and thread pitches available from the gear selector… and is much more expensive.