10-11 inch lathes -- Precision Matthews, Modern Tool
- Thread starter trlvn
- Start date
Should have known better.
Congratulation Craig!
Gearhead88
Super User
That looks like a miniature version of the axle that holds the wheel on a Harley sidecar
I am now occupying your boat, @trlvn
Looking at purchasing my first metal lathe and also looking at the Busy Bee Craftex CX706 (10x22) ($3099 CDN) https:// www.busybeetools.com/products/lathe-10in-x22in-metal -with-digital-readout.html or should I consider the larger Craftex CX709 (13x24) for $3699 which includes a stand
https://www.busybeetools.com/products/metal-lathe -600mm-with-stand.html
The US equivalents are the Grizzly G0602 ($2250 USD) and Precision Matthews PM1022V lathe ($2899 USD).
My thinking is, start with the CX706 and put it on a sturdy bench rather than a $359 stand and spend $1,500 on tooling for a total budget of $5,000 CDN.
Thoughts?
I'd go for the 1.5" bore size rather than the 1". When all is said and done that slightly larger turning ability at 13" and 1.5" hole size will be handier. The CX709 is also reduced more so it was way more expensive.
IMHO
Dabbler
ersatz engineer
The 10x22 is half the weight of the 13X24, and weight will help with vibration and parting, and using form tools. The larger lathe lacks finer thread pitches than 40TPI, but I have never needed finer...
I thing the better value is in the larger lathe, as the stand is set up for the lathe already.
I thing the better value is in the larger lathe, as the stand is set up for the lathe already.
Hi @Darren I'm in Belleville, ON.
trlvn
Ultra Member
I've been quite pleased with my CX706 so far; not that I've done all that much yet.
In the Busybee Fall Catalogue, I saw that the CX709 was on sale for a good price. It would not fit in my space in the basement so it was a non-starter for me. Note that it says it is a "1.5 HP" motor but the max draw is 11 amps at 110 volts. IOW, it is really a 3/4 HP machine. Which should be enough.
Also, it is a change-gear machine, right? To thread, you have to put the right gears on in the right order. If you are looking in the 13 inch range, there are a number of machines out there that have a threading gear box.
Looking at the CX709, it looks like the feed rates are set by change gears, as well? On my CX706, there is a knob to switch Fast/Med/Slow feed rate which I don't see on the CX709. If this is correct, I think it is a significant drawback. I often rough stock down on one speed and switch to a slower one for a fine finishing pass.
Finally, I'm pretty sure that a belt change is required to get the highest speed range on the CX709. Not a big deal but something to be aware of. On my CX706, it is a pain to take the belt cover off. It is not hinged; the whole thing pulls off. To put it back on, there is a safety interlock that has to be lined up before it will click in. Not the end of the world but I can't easily switch to high range for drilling small holes and whatnot. Maybe the CX709 belt cover is at least hinged?
Let me know if you want any more details on the CX706. HTH.
Craig
In the Busybee Fall Catalogue, I saw that the CX709 was on sale for a good price. It would not fit in my space in the basement so it was a non-starter for me. Note that it says it is a "1.5 HP" motor but the max draw is 11 amps at 110 volts. IOW, it is really a 3/4 HP machine. Which should be enough.
Also, it is a change-gear machine, right? To thread, you have to put the right gears on in the right order. If you are looking in the 13 inch range, there are a number of machines out there that have a threading gear box.
Looking at the CX709, it looks like the feed rates are set by change gears, as well? On my CX706, there is a knob to switch Fast/Med/Slow feed rate which I don't see on the CX709. If this is correct, I think it is a significant drawback. I often rough stock down on one speed and switch to a slower one for a fine finishing pass.
Finally, I'm pretty sure that a belt change is required to get the highest speed range on the CX709. Not a big deal but something to be aware of. On my CX706, it is a pain to take the belt cover off. It is not hinged; the whole thing pulls off. To put it back on, there is a safety interlock that has to be lined up before it will click in. Not the end of the world but I can't easily switch to high range for drilling small holes and whatnot. Maybe the CX709 belt cover is at least hinged?
Let me know if you want any more details on the CX706. HTH.
Craig
Pretty sure it does. The specs say "Cross–feed range: 0.025-0.34mm/r". When I look at the photos on Busy Bee, I'm pretty sure I see a feed direction lever on the top right of the saddle. But as you say, if your gunna buy one, I'd get the Manual and study it cover to cover.
I know manufacturer horse power ratings are wonky most of the time, but I've always read that it takes 745 watts to make one horsepower. So with that figure the 1.5hp rating for the lathe would be accurate. What factor/formula do you use?
trlvn
Ultra Member
Horsepower is supposed to be an output rating and single phase electric motors aren't all that efficient. I think modern motors achieve something like 70% efficiency. More practically though, if you look at utility motors from the 50's through the 70's, they were generally rated as requiring 13 to 15 amps to be called a 1 horsepower motor. I think that is a reasonable benchmark.
In the 1980's, it became common to see shop vacs and woodworking routers, among other devices, that claimed to be 3 or 3.5 HP and yet they were rated for 15 amps at 110 volts. The 'footnotes' usually described this as "developed horsepower" which was just before the motor would stall. IOW, an unsustainable load.
I always look at the amperage rating. They can't fudge that because the CSA rating is all about fire safety. The "horsepower" rating is all too often just ill-defined marketing babble.
IMHO.
Craig
And then there's Metric HP which is 735 watts.
en.wikipedia.org
Horsepower - Wikipedia
There are some good calculators here too. For matching torque and RPM if you want to know if a specific motor will do what you want.
Electric Motors - Torque vs. Power and Speed
Electric motor output power and torque vs. rotation speed.
www.engineeringtoolbox.com
Oh, this could turn into a deep rabbit hole, but lets not go there. Even if everyone agreed on the underlying HP math & standards, some vendors would still find a way to cherry pick values to make their product appear one way or another, depending on what benefits sales. Electric motors tend to have curves similar to link example based on their winding & other variables. HP is a product of torque & RPM so all depends on where you are on the curve. Good luck finding curves for most any commercial tool, especially offshore. As already mentioned, max amps (stall current) doesn't really correlate to a useful bracket of the operating range. And for bigger motors with like start/run capacitors, there is also FLA (full load amps) which the motor sees but only briefly & more useful for sizing wires & breakers. Is that what they mean by 'max amps' (as opposed to running amps)? I think that about taps out my limited knowledge reservoir LOL.
CSA, hmm.. there's another can of worms. Maybe I'm wrong but I think a lot of import electrical devices including power tools, appliances just slip under the radar or its not strictly enforced or the regs are focusing on bigger power units or specific operating environments. Walk down Crappy Tire isle & look for a CSA sticker on everything with a cord. I bet not many. Maybe some machine tool vendors take it seriously & ensure compliancy at some corporate/import level, I really don't know. Modern Tool told me they specify certain electrical standards at factory level & add a few more thingies once landed for their machines. Not sure if that is proactive CYB if they are subject to some kind of spot check audit process? Do other importers do the same? Not sure.
islproducts.com
CSA, hmm.. there's another can of worms. Maybe I'm wrong but I think a lot of import electrical devices including power tools, appliances just slip under the radar or its not strictly enforced or the regs are focusing on bigger power units or specific operating environments. Walk down Crappy Tire isle & look for a CSA sticker on everything with a cord. I bet not many. Maybe some machine tool vendors take it seriously & ensure compliancy at some corporate/import level, I really don't know. Modern Tool told me they specify certain electrical standards at factory level & add a few more thingies once landed for their machines. Not sure if that is proactive CYB if they are subject to some kind of spot check audit process? Do other importers do the same? Not sure.
How To Read DC Motor & Gear Motor Performance Curves
Performance curves are a key aspect of any motor specification. Learn what all of this data means to help in your motor selection process.
islproducts.com
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Former Member
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Do yourself a favor, go to Grizzly's site and look for the most similar lathe down load their manual (user, parts and service) great extra info missed in the BB version, same goes for the PM manual.
I love my CX707 but that extra info is gold (ie lube specs and more).
I did exactly that.