Tool Tooling up a milling machine

[phaxtris]

your missing 2 flute end mills, unless you only plan on working with steel, and you should buy multiples of the small-cheap endmills, namely the 8mm and under, sizes, anything 6mm and under explode pretty easily, and 8mm's are so cheap its worth having a few

it can (not always) take quite a while to get to you, so its worth stocking up, esp on the easy to break sizes/cheap sizes

 

[justin1]

your missing 2 flute end mills, unless you only plan on working with steel, and you should buy multiples of the small-cheap endmills, namely the 8mm and under, sizes, anything 6mm and under explode pretty easily, and 8mm's are so cheap its worth having a few

it can (not always) take quite a while to get to you, so its worth stocking up, esp on the easy to break sizes/cheap sizes

Is it worth buying carbide for aluminum when i mainly work with steel, I was just gonna buy a cheap hss set for aluminium use

 

[LenVW]

I use carbide for all sorts of milling in steel (2” Flycutter w/ inserts to 1/16“ EndMill).
Just be careful with carbide, they are tough, but, brittle.
Always put down cardboard if you are setting the cutters on a steel surface.
I used to have access to carbide everyday at Ex-Cell-O because we had a carbide grinding section of the machine tool shop.

HSS cutters work well for softer metals like aluminum and brass, but, also when working on CRS & HRS steel with adequate coolant.

Experiment with your machines, start lighter and slowly increase your feeds and DOC, you will get a feel for what they can handle.

 

[Former Member]

You are going to find HS tooling flex's compared to Carbided.

As to Aluminium (other soft materials are similar) I find using a 1/2 cutter (prior to CNC, CNC just made it worse) that the flex causes grab which causes a number of things, chart being the least and destroyed work pieces being the worst, HS steel does this.

So once you start down the road of Carbide you'll continue down that path.

 

[Susquatch]

Is it worth buying carbide for aluminum when i mainly work with steel, I was just gonna buy a cheap hss set for aluminium use

I don't agree with others who don't like HSS. But I don't buy cheap HSS.

I actually prefer HSS to carbide for most of my work.

I find HSS to be less demanding of me as a hobbiest. My take is that the guys who do a crap load of machining (usually doing it for a living) prefer carbide. But they do enough work to learn its intricacies and can push carbide to do what hss can't or won't do.

Low volume hobbiests like me are more likely to be miles away from pushing their machines and their tooling to any limits. As a pure hobbiest, I really don't care much about productivity or tool life. I'd rather make a nice part first crack than spend time optimizing the process.

Don't get me wrong, I do have a lot of carbide, but there is a very warm loving spot in my tool drawers for HSS. Not just for aluminium but for most kinds of steel too!

I see nothing wrong with your plan to get some low cost HSS end mills too.

Especially after you break a few carbide ones - as you WILL do! (@phaxtris is dead on - buy several of the smaller ones cuz you WILL break them - ESPECIALLY since you will be experimenting). Just so you know, I have probably broken 4 carbide end mills for every 1 HSS one. And before any of the peanut gallery pipes up..... OF COURSE I'm not doing it right! I'm a pure hobbiest. I don't run my machines all day every day. In fact, I'm lucky to make just one part a week or so.

 

[phaxtris]

I've got nothing against hss, I have some cheap hss that I often use in aluminum, and hss is substantially cheaper when you get into larger sizes

It can be harder to find on Ali, but it is there, I can't remember but I don't think there was much price difference for the small stuff, so personally I don't bother tracking the small stuff down, but it is worth it for the larger sizes

 

[little ol' e]

Is it worth buying carbide for aluminum when i mainly work with steel, I was just gonna buy a cheap hss set for aluminium use

As Degen mentioned above, once you start with solid carbide/indexable on the mill, it will be hard to go back to HSS and coolants.

Within the next few weeks, I will be changing up tooling distributers. Will have some carbide em's, drills and taps that may interest some folks on the forum.
This is not low end stuff, yet not the most expensive either.

I will have pics available in the near future. First come gets first pick of the litter. If anyone is interested, shoot me a PM.
Would also consider trade to save your cash. Milwaukee, Dewalt ...

 

[justin1]

So this is what I've ended up with and probly gonna place an order for this evening, added some more carbide and few other cheap goodies. Not everything I need to open a machining business lol but should be enough to let me do it as a hobby and start using this stuff to build more tools and one off parts for the crap I keep bringing home.

I'm still looking into vises as I'm still mulling over what I want, still leaning towards the Kurt dx6 but seeing what I can work with as I don't plan on machine in the tenths just want to do thous and seems like there is a few vises out there that are capable of working in the thous pretty comfortably for a bit less then a Kurt.

Thank you guys for your input and I look forward to see what kinda trouble I can get in with some of this stuff.

 

[LenVW]

So this is what I've ended up with and probly gonna place an order for this evening, added some more carbide and few other cheap goodies. Not everything I need to open a machining business lol but should be enough to let me do it as a hobby and start using this stuff to build more tools and one off parts for the crap I keep bringing home.

I'm still looking into vises as I'm still mulling over what I want, still leaning towards the Kurt dx6 but seeing what I can work with as I don't plan on machine in the tenths just want to do thous and seems like there is a few vises out there that are capable of working in the thous pretty comfortably for a bit less then a Kurt.

Thank you guys for your input and I look forward to see what kinda trouble I can get in with some of this stuff.

Determine what you are going to be working on and buy your tools to suit the items you are making. You can quickly spend a lot of money on things that may collect dyst in your toolbox.
Keep an eye on machine shop auctions in your area.

 

[phaxtris]

oh wow you have some big carbide cutters in there, you can get indexable end mills that are much cheaper if you don't plan to be doing a bunch of side milling where you need a full length carbide

i dont know if i would be buying something that big (20mm dia) and expensive unless i knew i needed it for something

 

[Susquatch]

Agree with above comments.

Also, if you are gunna buy those collet blocks, get two of each the same. If you need the second later on, it prolly won't match the one you have. They never seem to be the same if made at different times. By buying the two together you can return them both if they are different and simply try again. The choice about how much difference you can tolerate is yours to make when they arrive. Then you keep them or send them back and try again. Amazon is great for that. Ali is not.

Normally I like to help guys spend their money. But I gotta say, I am against buying the Rotary table and the tilting table. I bought the Vevor tilting table a while back. It was junk and got returned. Mine was easy cuz it was Amazon. It's not so easy to return to Ali.

Also, thats a lot of money for a small rotary table. You can get a much nicer bigger used one on Kijiji for that kinda money if you are willing to wait a while.

Frankly, I doubt you will need either one of these for a while anyway. Why don't you get your feet wet first and then decide if you really need one. If so, find a good used one. They pop up all the time.

 

[Stellrammer]

I missed the part about you have a 10” X 50” table and 5 hp machine. Vertical Knee Mill? Does it have enough speed range to run small carbide endmills?
I see you bought cermet inserts TPMT style, turning or milling application? They aren’t very strong in a chip breaker pressed insert, more for high speed finishing in steel. A flat top with edge protection no screw hole can be used in heavy milling in low carbon steels, just curious what you expecting of them.

 

[justin1]

Determine what you are going to be working on and buy your tools to suit the items you are making. You can quickly spend a lot of money on things that may collect dyst in your toolbox.
Keep an eye on machine shop auctions in your area.

Ye that's why I'm trying to stay bit leener on the bigger stuff I would love to buy the whole shabang to do gear hobbing but probly won't make any gears anytime soon or maybe ever. But if I guy could find a set up for next to nothing thennn maybe lol. As far as machine shop auctions we don't have much for manual machine shops closest areas for it to me are Vancouver and Calgary.

I missed the part about you have a 10” X 50” table and 5 hp machine. Vertical Knee Mill? Does it have enough speed range to run small carbide endmills?
I see you bought cermet inserts TPMT style, turning or milling application? They aren’t very strong in a chip breaker pressed insert, more for high speed finishing in steel. A flat top with edge protection no screw hole can be used in heavy milling in low carbon steels, just curious what you expecting of them.

Ye I found a good deal on big machine and couldn't help my self just needed some love. And I haven't ordered them yet but they would be for the boring bar set for my 2inch citrean style boring setup I'm using the Wnmu style inserts for the 4" shell mill.

Would they be ideal for boring? I did add 1 round style insert boring bar to test out as I was under the impression the round inserts offer better surface finish

As far as spindle speed only goes up too 2000 rpm (correction goes from low 70-500 and high 600-3800) I think so probly not enough for some of the really small bits but I would think I could still make some use out of them even if I sacrifice tool in the process but for bits that are only 3 bucks ish EA probly not the worst thing to fuck up lol.

 

[Stellrammer]

Ye that's why I'm trying to stay bit leener on the bigger stuff I would love to buy the whole shabang to do gear hobbing but probly won't make any gears anytime soon or maybe ever. But if I guy could find a set up for next to nothing thennn maybe lol. As far as machine shop auctions we don't have much for manual machine shops closest areas for it to me are Vancouver and Calgary.


Ye I found a good deal on big machine and couldn't help my self just needed some love. And I haven't ordered them yet but they would be for the boring bar set for my 2inch citrean style boring setup I'm using the Wnmu style inserts for the 4" shell mill.

Would they be ideal for boring? I did add 1 round style insert boring bar to test out as I was under the impression the round inspects offer better surface finish

Cermet will be just fine in a boring application , small radius and a very sharp edge, good choice.
The rounds in a boring bar are not a good combination, you will get chatter and push off, too much surface contact.
For boring to close tolerance on small depth the smaller the nose radius the better. Edge prep matters as well but in reality taking a .001” cut the insert is effectively negative ,but not enough extra pressure to affect finish.
Straight turning it’s best to keep a nose radius buried to avoid chatter, more difficult to do when boring.
What is the top rpm your machine can do?

 

[StevSmar]

Homge

5” available from Precision Matthews:
https://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/5-inch-homge-ultra-high-precision-milling-vise-wswivel-base/

 

[StevSmar]

- Start collecting endmill holders.

What would you consider a “starter set” for end mill holders?

I can imagine that having an end-mill pull out is not the nicest experience.

 

[justin1]

oh wow you have some big carbide cutters in there, you can get indexable end mills that are much cheaper if you don't plan to be doing a bunch of side milling where you need a full length carbide

i dont know if i would be buying something that big (20mm dia) and expensive unless i knew i needed it for something

That why I figured it would be best to post my buy list before buying so I can get better feed back lol so at what size would it be better to get indexable mills? And would it be better to buy maybe one big one for side roughing then maybe stick with smaller carbides for everything else?

@Susquatch
Im not sure If I would need more then one as I was originally planning to make some but they were pretty cheap and figure I could still make some.in future if I needed a longer set up or something more special

As far as rotary table goes I may go bit small as they do get a lot cheaper for the 4 inch ones as I don't have couple gun smithing related projects I would like to use a small rotary table for probly could even use a 2 inch one if they make them for the gun stuff I want to dick around with but I want to find a large used one for everything else for rounding corners and other stuff that looks better with a curve.

I thought the tilt table and rotary would work good with small chuck to do angles without having to tram machine back in for something non critical too small to want to bother with moving the head of mill.

 

[Stellrammer]

5” available from Precision Matthews:
https://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/5-inch-homge-ultra-high-precision-milling-vise-wswivel-base/

Pretty respectable brand. I wish I could flog this hydraulic monster, too big for my XLO. 85 lbs, ain’t shipping it too far.

 

[justin1]

Cermet will be just fine in a boring application , small radius and a very sharp edge, good choice.
The rounds in a boring bar are not a good combination, you will get chatter and push off, too much surface contact.
For boring to close tolerance on small depth the smaller the nose radius the better. Edge prep matters as well but in reality taking a .001” cut the insert is effectively negative ,but not enough extra pressure to affect finish.
Straight turning it’s best to keep a nose radius buried to avoid chatter, more difficult to do when boring.
What is the top rpm your machine can do?

Ok so the round inserts for boring wouldn't be worth while and probly should removed from my order and my machine tops out at 3800 rpm

 

[StevSmar]

85 lbs, ain’t shipping it too far.

Apparently my 5” is 55lbs (with the swivel base). The weight caught me off guard…