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Show us your shops!

In my opinion, it's ok to think poorly of the code, but sometimes it helps to ask why that particular requirement might be that way. The answers are often surprising. In my day, we wrote a summary of changes along with the rationale. Regrettably, I think that activity is gone now - probably because nobody read it.

On the flip side, there are also many very old requirements that are no longer valid as well as some that never should have been there in the first place. My grandfather's uncle said that's how it had to be done......

Never let perfection be the enemy of the good. All things considered, I think the code is a good thing.

100% agree with that statement.

It is a better Canada with it, than without. For example, let us turn to Mexico for some examples of what a world without Code rules looks like...

Speaking of code rules, when I would purchase the latest edition of the Canadian Electrical Code I would always get a copy of the Canadian Electrical Code Handbook which provides a more detailed explanation of the Code rules. I met a number of electricians over the years who didn't even know such a book existed. Worth the money IMO.

For those who take out a homeowners permit you can purchase a "simplified" version which can help get the job done correctly and to help pass inspection:

 
For example, let us turn to Mexico for some examples of what a world without Code rules looks like...

did you know in Mexico they dont use marretes, wagos or any other type of wire splicing device, just twist, tape, and put it in the box (im not even sure thats required there).

i have family who owns a house down there, one is an electrician, when i noticed that in some of the construction i asked him....'yea thats what they do here, even in my house' he did mention they had quite the taping skills though.
 
Here is my shop, and there are a few projects under construction, some waiting for time and some for inspiration.
21 ironworker and press
20 Gearhead drill and pressbrake
18 and 17 mill in the machine shop room
16 lathe in machine shop
14 tractor inside to fit some attachments I'm building
13 forklift and furnace project and the plasma table hidden behind forklift
12 Welding area
There is more in the stockroom but no pics, but you've all seen steel, oil filters compressor, etc.
The most relevant item in all those photo's...that sign on the wall, I recite the same sentiment every morning I get up...emphatically!!
 
100% agree with that statement.

It is a better Canada with it, than without. For example, let us turn to Mexico for some examples of what a world without Code rules looks like...

Speaking of code rules, when I would purchase the latest edition of the Canadian Electrical Code I would always get a copy of the Canadian Electrical Code Handbook which provides a more detailed explanation of the Code rules. I met a number of electricians over the years who didn't even know such a book existed. Worth the money IMO.

For those who take out a homeowners permit you can purchase a "simplified" version which can help get the job done correctly and to help pass inspection:


I have a recent copy of that simplified book if anyone ever needs to see it.

I realize this is code, and one point that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Really common to have multiple duplex receptacles on a single 15A breaker. Now two people in adjacent bedrooms decide to plug in hairdryers at the same time getting ready for the big party. #14 gets a bit warm, the breaker trips and nothing bad happens, okay they are five minutes late to the party. Now it's a 30A breaker with two receptacles in a workshop; guy decides to run the portable heater at the same time he is welding. I fail to see the difference, or the danger.

The 80% rule also doesn't make a lot of sense to me, #14 can happily flow 15A all day long. Is it ideal no, is it unsafe I would argue no.

BTW 30A through #14 will typically raise the temperature to the 90C rating of the insulation (lots of factors but decent estimate), at 15A it's just barely warm.
It's around expected loading...a 15a circuit around the house is expected to have a lamp, a tv, a phone charger, a clock, a computer, etc. plugged into it. Nothing exceeding 80%. Your hairdryer example is a bad one, those are used typically in bathrooms which will usually only have the 1 plug on the circuit, or on occasion 2 if the electrician was cheap.

The workshop on the other hand, the circuit is completely utilized by a single device...there's no conceivable scenario where you'd plug a device into a 30a circuit and it not use that entire circuit. If it were to use less, say 20a...then it would have be designed to be on a 20a circuit/plug in the first place. With two or more plugs, a person could easily plug in devices that would trip the breaker...the breaker isn't there to prevent person stupidity (to a point), it's there to protect the wiring/plugs.

The code is also there not just to protect you (because you know better, and you wired it), it's there to protect the future owner of the home. They don't know what you did or why you did it or how to use it right, they just expect code compliant behaviour.

Agreed, seems to me that the new arc fault breaker legislation is an expensive solution looking for a problem.

They have created the problem with kicking out for any brush equipped vacuum motor, electric drill, grinder and many more. A plasma torch can induce enough RF to pop them, I'm told
You can't fight the bastards, but after they give you the blessing, you pull the breakers and sell them on Kijiji, and replace with tried and true ordinary breakers. We all have to do that out here.

I prefer to look at data. I tend to agree that some updates are merely money grabs, but arc fault breakers for bedroom circuits (maybe more) are not one of them. At least in my non electrician opinion. Maybe take a look see at this link?


Arc fault breakers are terrible. In the older code (2015ish and earlier?) it was only required in bedrooms, which could make some sense with beds pushed up against outlets and random things getting plugged in all the time. But requiring it almost everywhere except fridges and sump pumps and kitchens (but not kitchenettes? ffs) is excessive. In finishing my basement I had to use the damn things everywhere and turned the breaker cost from maybe $100-150 into nearly $1000, since the damn things are $100/pop give or take (don't buy them at home depot, they're over $150 there). I was doing some floor grinding yesterday with my big 7" grinder, a diamond wheel, and a shop vac....shop vac on separate circuit, and whether I was in the 15a or 20a plugs I put in down there, the arc faults kept tripping on the grinder...eventually just ran an extension cord from a non-arc fault breaker (central vac plug in the utility room that was "existing"). Kind of defeats the purpose of having them. Permit is closed, so I will likely start swapping them back in key spots where I use things that trip them.

Tamper resistant outlets are another annoyance of mine, the amount of force/wiggle/jiggle you need to get something to plug in, makes them more dangerous than just having a regular old outlet in there. They are code required everywhere now too.



So this is all to say, I like and hate code all at the same time. Some rules (like circuit loading and physical protection) makes perfect sense to me. Others, like the arc fault and tamper resistant plugs are just pure annoyance with little benefit if you use a bit of common sense. In the end though, I almost entirely try to follow the rules (or do better than the rules) because most of it makes actual good sense when you dig into the why.
 
Nice one.:)

And yet there is over a billion people and growing.
Yeah, quite the topic wander (sorry), but that may have something to do with poor education of women, esp in the north of India, and lack of contraception leading to huge numbers of kids/Mom.

On the other hand, seeing machine shops in India is quite the education on what can be done with determination and grit despite inadequate way oil and maintenance ;-)
 
I prefer to look at data. I tend to agree that some updates are merely money grabs, but arc fault breakers for bedroom circuits (maybe more) are not one of them. At least in my non electrician opinion. Maybe take a look see at this link?

Well, I wonder how how of those fires were caused by having more than 12A flowing on a 15A breaker, pretty safe to assume none unless there was some other fault condition and the safety standards are based on single fault conditions, because if you start trying to protect for multiple simultaneous faults, either the power would never be on or the cost would be unaffordable.

Agreed that much of what is in the code is not because a bunch of experts figured out the way things can fail, but what actually failed and caused problems. The problem nowadays is that the most of the experts running these committees work for the companies that sell the products. I'm all in for smoke detectors, seatbelts etc, not so keen on a mandated sprinkler system in every new house.

I will stop now;-)
 
If you really want to be shocked, try India. Code? What code. Geysers on 240v without gfi etc? Sure why not…

You made me laugh.

Here is a photo.

IcORM.jpg


If you want to see more, Google "power wiring in India"

The photos are good but seeing it first hand scares the living hell out of you! So does driving a car or riding a pedal bike.

I think it's all a population control strategy.
 
You made me laugh.

Here is a photo.

View attachment 57209

If you want to see more, Google "power wiring in India"

The photos are good but seeing it first hand scares the living hell out of you! So does driving a car or riding a pedal bike.

I think it's all a population control strategy.
Sadly , lots of the guys that masterminded that mess have immigrated here and are in the reno / home flipping business now
 
Afci are the shits in a garage. When I built the house pretty much everything had to be afci'd and tamper proof plugs everywhere aswell. I replaced the afci'd back to standard breakers as I couldn't run any of my power tools.

Even had to do afci/GFI on my well pump as it's In a shallow well beside a creek and if kids swim near it they could get zapped. The creek in question is 6 inches deep and very hard to get to.

Copy of 2024 code for the frugal

 
Just my 2 cents on code compliance, in the unfortunate circumstance that a fire occurred, an insurance adjuster will certainly look for a non compliant installation and if found, your insurance will likely be void.
 
Afci are the shits in a garage. When I built the house pretty much everything had to be afci'd and tamper proof plugs everywhere aswell. I replaced the afci'd back to standard breakers as I couldn't run any of my power tools.

Even had to do afci/GFI on my well pump as it's In a shallow well beside a creek and if kids swim near it they could get zapped. The creek in question is 6 inches deep and very hard to get to.

Copy of 2024 code for the frugal


That's a handy link to have (and downloaded the pdf), thanks!

They went overboard on arc fault for sure. My house was built in 2015, right before they expanded the need for them, so luckily everything but the bedrooms and now the basement (since it had to comply with current code when finishing it - yes it was permitted work) don't have them, including my garage. At least we can still buy the regular style breakers and I've got a little stash of spares just in case.

Just my 2 cents on code compliance, in the unfortunate circumstance that a fire occurred, an insurance adjuster will certainly look for a non compliant installation and if found, your insurance will likely be void.

Yup, this is a good point....though only if it's the cause of the insurance claim.
 
Just my 2 cents on code compliance, in the unfortunate circumstance that a fire occurred, an insurance adjuster will certainly look for a non compliant installation and if found, your insurance will likely be void.
Your not wrong if it's direct cause but that would make any houses built before the 2024 code uninsured to a degree.

My house which is basically brand new completed 2023 would fail current building codes in regards to all the net zone stuff that's been added and fail some of the electrical changes.

One thing I failed on my electrical inspection was not having neutrals in all my switch boxes. There isn't any hazard by not having the neutrals as it was allowed in code till I think the 2nd last code update. it just won't allow you to use smart switch's in which I have no interest in having. As wifi controlled lights seems like bad idea to me.

Not to say you couldn't install smart switches without neutral but it would be frowned on to use the ground.
 
Your not wrong if it's direct cause but that would make any houses built before the 2024 code uninsured to a degree.

My house which is basically brand new completed 2023 would fail current building codes in regards to all the net zone stuff that's been added and fail some of the electrical changes.

One thing I failed on my electrical inspection was not having neutrals in all my switch boxes. There isn't any hazard by not having the neutrals as it was allowed in code till I think the 2nd last code update. it just won't allow you to use smart switch's in which I have no interest in having. As wifi controlled lights seems like bad idea to me.

Not to say you couldn't install smart switches without neutral but it would be frowned on to use the ground.

Older homes follow older code unless you modify, add, upgrade, etc. Then you have to follow the current code.
 
Just my 2 cents on code compliance, in the unfortunate circumstance that a fire occurred, an insurance adjuster will certainly look for a non compliant installation and if found, your insurance will likely be void.
Yeh but.....when our house burnt down our insurance limit for tools and for books was IIRC 50 bucks. I now have a few books under 50 bucks and a few tools too, but none of them would make me lose sleep if lost.
 
Older homes follow older code unless you modify, add, upgrade, etc. Then you have to follow the current code.
Ye pretty much unless you get lucky and your insurance tells you that your once approved aluminum wiring or polyB piping makes you not eligible for insurance lol.

I would say code enforcers would leave you alone for old house. I doubt a city would pull your occupancy permit on a old building because it wasn't built to current code. Unless they are informed of a structural defect and even then I doubt they would do anything as there are lots of pre 1970 buildings that could be at risk of roof collapse as they didn't really care about snow loading as much back then and you were kinda at the whim of whoever built the house to use there better judgement when designing the trusses.

I would say insurance will be the first one to come out the wood works and make you fix a problem. Also probly the first ones to find any reason to not cover you.
 
One thing I failed on my electrical inspection was not having neutrals in all my switch boxes. There isn't any hazard by not having the neutrals as it was allowed in code till I think the 2nd last code update. it just won't allow you to use smart switch's in which I have no interest in having.

This is the sort of thing I'm talking about. The can recommend it, they can explain why it would to your benefit and so on .... but should they force it? That is stepping outside of their mandate imo, and they are a non elected entity. If they've done it once you can bet it isn't the only time. Too many rules. The enormous force of special interests pushes for more and more laws, rules and regs, but there is no countervailing forcing calling BS and getting rid of them.
 
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Your not wrong if it's direct cause but that would make any houses built before the 2024 code uninsured to a degree.

My house which is basically brand new completed 2023 would fail current building codes in regards to all the net zone stuff that's been added and fail some of the electrical changes.

One thing I failed on my electrical inspection was not having neutrals in all my switch boxes. There isn't any hazard by not having the neutrals as it was allowed in code till I think the 2nd last code update. it just won't allow you to use smart switch's in which I have no interest in having. As wifi controlled lights seems like bad idea to me.

Not to say you couldn't install smart switches without neutral but it would be frowned on to use the ground.
How did you not manage to have neutral wires in your box? You would have to go out of your way to omit them
 
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