Show us your shops!

[SomeGuy]

This is the sort of thing I'm talking about. The can recommend it, they can explain why it would to your benefit and so on .... but should they force it? That is stepping outside of their mandate imo, and they are a non elected entity. If they've done it once you can bet it isn't the only time. Too many rules. The enormous force of special interests pushes for more and more laws, rules and regs, but there is no countervailing forcing calling BS and getting rid of them.

There's also keeping up with the times, people want to install smart switches everywhere (heck, I've got a couple dozen in the house) and without the neutral they are going to hack around it and make things not safe.

How did you not manage to have neutral wires in your box? You would have to go out of your way to omit them

On switch lines if you run power to the light first, then just run a 14/2 down to the switch and run the hot only down, through the switch, and back. That's how a lot of light switches used to be wired. The other pain in the royal ass is 3 way switches and trying to get neutrals everywhere, you have to use 14/4 wire, or run two 14/2's, or run neutral lines to both switches on either side of the 3 way.

 

[Elektrishun]

How did you not manage to have neutral wires in your box? You would have to go out of your way to omit them

For example, you bring the power to your junction box behind the ceiling fixture first and then run a 2 wire to the switch. The white gets tied to the hot at the JB then goes down to terminate on one side of the switch. The black ties onto the other side of the switch going back up to the "hot" of the light fixture. This used to be how it was done and how I assume justin1 did some of his lights/switches.

Some electricians would properly cover the white insulation in black electrical tape to identify it as a "hot" conductor.

In that example, since the code change, that 2 wire now has to be a 3 wire to provide a neutral whether it's used or not.

 

[Elektrishun]

There's also keeping up with the times, people want to install smart switches everywhere (heck, I've got a couple dozen in the house) and without the neutral they are going to hack around it and make things not safe.



On switch lines if you run power to the light first, then just run a 14/2 down to the switch and run the hot only down, through the switch, and back. That's how a lot of light switches used to be wired. The other pain in the royal ass is 3 way switches and trying to get neutrals everywhere, you have to use 14/4 wire, or run two 14/2's, or run neutral lines to both switches on either side of the 3 way.

Or spend a lot of money to do, with greater difficulty, what could have been done when it was first wired and everything was open.

 

[Downwindtracker2]

In my shop, I am the only one working a power tool, unless I have the vacuum hooked to the tool. With good shop vacs, a couple of circuits are needed. So having a couple 220 plugs on the same circuit makes sense.

 

[mbond]

For example, you bring the power to your junction box behind the ceiling fixture first and then run a 2 wire to the switch. The white gets tied to the hot at the JB then goes down to terminate on one side of the switch. The black ties onto the other side of the switch going back up to the "hot" of the light fixture. This used to be how it was done and how I assume justin1 did some of his lights/switches.

Some electricians would properly cover the white insulation in black electrical tape to identify it as a "hot" conductor.

In that example, since the code change, that 2 wire now has to be a 3 wire to provide a neutral whether it's used or not.

Ah - the remote switch versus the inline switch situation.

 

[justin1]

Ah - the remote switch versus the inline switch situation.

Ye basically @SomeGuy @Elektrishun explained it good.

I put a lot of 3 way switches in house and 1 - 4 way and I just wired it too old code because that's what I was most familiar with at the time.

It's not like it's changes the cost much it's just annoying to be forced install stuff that you may never use.

Like my trusses had to be load rated to include solar panels weight on top of snow load. I'll never install solar but it's just an extra cost I have to shoulder. I just missed out on having to install electric car plug in garage. Which is something that someone can add later on pretty easy later on, so why do I have to pay for it.

Some stuff makes sense but some stuff I think is just a bit over reaching.

It's hard to future proof past 5 years anyways as now you can install wireless switches and lights so I could of just not put switches in the whole house and just gone wireless and screwed the next guy if I ever sell lol like the people in the 80's and 90's who installed nothing but switched plugs in every room for lamps because they didn't like ceiling lights.

Once upon a time cat 5 cable and telephone line used to be installed in every room but now I don't think anyone even installs it anymore unless you have a purpose for it.

@Mcgyver "This is the sort of thing I'm talking about. should they force it? , rules and regs, but there is no countervailing forcing calling BS and getting rid of them."

I agree with this too. It's part of the reason why we can't compete in manufacturing and input a dozen or more problems we currently have. That topic should be on a seperate post anyways as I could probly write a 3 page essay of ranting of stupid stuff government/self funded safety enforcement agencies do that just hurt us. We just spend more of our money so other countries can pollute and screw stuff up for us. Blah blah could go on and on about this lol haha.

 

[mbond]

EV chargers and solar panel roof loads are part of the code where you live? Those things don't even have well recognized / adopted standards

 

[Susquatch]

Once upon a time cat 5 cable and telephone line used to be installed in every room but now I don't think anyone even installs it anymore unless you have a purpose for it.

Too bad too. The latest 6 & 7 WiFi systems prefer to use an Ethernet backhaul to feed the mesh nodes. They will work without it but peak performance requires a hardwired backhaul.

 

[justin1]

EV chargers and solar panel roof loads are part of the code where you live? Those things don't even have well recognized / adopted standards

It's not in BC code persay but it's enforced by the municipalities in which you build in. Most municipalities are trying to make all new homes meet net zero "guidelines".

It's like Vancouver banning natural gas appliances in new construction. The RDNO forces you to go above and beyond the minimum building code so I had to add radon protection and HRV and had to meet certain insulation requirements set out by them and even had to have HRV system teca certified. It Also was mandatory to have footing under concrete walls and some other stuff the building code says is optional. But having a proper footing is better anyways vs not having so don't mind doing extras that make sense.

From what I hear now you have to have some one come in a test air tightness of home and do more stuff in regard to insulation values.

Canada Building code says I can build a house to a minimum code but the municipality have final say of what they want to see done. If they want blue houses only they get blue houses. If I wasn't in a municipality I would just have to follow minimums set up by building code.

 

[SomeGuy]

It's not in BC code persay but it's enforced by the municipalities in which you build in. Most municipalities are trying to make all new homes meet net zero "guidelines".

It's like Vancouver banning natural gas appliances in new construction. The RDNO forces you to go above and beyond the minimum building code so I had to add radon protection and HRV and had to meet certain insulation requirements set out by them and even had to have HRV system teca certified. It Also was mandatory to have footing under concrete walls and some other stuff the building code says is optional. But having a proper footing is better anyways vs not having so don't mind doing extras that make sense.

From what I hear now you have to have some one come in a test air tightness of home and do more stuff in regard to insulation values.

Canada Building code says I can build a house to a minimum code but the municipality have final say of what they want to see done. If they want blue houses only they get blue houses. If I wasn't in a municipality I would just have to follow minimums set up by building code.

And this is why homes continue to cost more and more to build...

As with the electrical, some of it I get and would happily pay for, but some is just absurd and adds thousands or ten's of thousands to build cost for no reason whatsoever.

 

[mbond]

And I though Toronto was bad.

I also learned that dealing with building inspectors it a skill in and of itself. And in particular the ones fishing for graft - it is an unfortunate reality.

as an individual, working on only one property / renovation, you are at a distinct disadvantage versus a contractor who works with the building department on many projects. Again, an unfortunate reality

 

[SomeGuy]

And I though Toronto was bad.

I also learned that dealing with building inspectors it a skill in and of itself. And in particular the ones fishing for graft - it is an unfortunate reality.

as an individual, working on only one property / renovation, you are at a distinct disadvantage versus a contractor who works with the building department on many projects. Again, an unfortunate reality

Luckily the inspector I've had here (it's always the same guy for the neighbourhood, he did the original house, my deck, neighbours deck I built for them, now the basement) is outstanding, no grief at all, super helpful, hasn't asked me to change anything or always offered a way to make it work for what I wanted. I wish all inspectors were like this. The ESA guy on the other hand, total dick...

 

[mbond]

About 10 years ago I did a major renovation on the house, then I put in a pool, and I'm working on another renovation now. I also helped my parents and my brother with their dealings with the various departments at city hall.

Here in the big city there are lots of inspectors. I haven't dealt with the same one twice. Most of them have been quite good - sometimes tough, but fair. And then there are specific ones who are obvious not. Of the maybe twenty I have dealt with, only one was obviously looking for a bribe. And one other was either doing it in a more subtle way, or was just incompetent / obtuse. It is sad that this kind of thing happens, but what can you do

 

[JustaDB]

only one was obviously looking for a bribe

I'd have hung the SOB by his heels from the rafters for a night. With an oily rag stuffed in his mouth & duct taped shut. That kind of crap just toggles something inside me.

 

[slow-poke]

We did a large renovation in the GTA some time back, and there is absolutely no question some of the city people we dealt were on the take and they were not subtle about it. At one point we had to attend a committee of adjustment process sort of a kangaroo court type of affair and you would have to be blind dumb and stupid not to notice who was on what side of that line. One side of the line and they threw every possible minefield in the way, the other side " oh this looks like a wonderful, well thought out improvement, please raise your hand if your department approves" , 10 hands go up in unison, "Approved"

 

[Ironman]

I'd have hung the SOB by his heels from the rafters for a night. With an oily rag stuffed in his mouth & duct taped shut. That kind of crap just toggles something inside me.

It's the main reason these people take low paying city jobs, and the reason politicians quit lawyering to get elected.

 

[Downwindtracker2]

Thanks to climate change, we installed central air and needed to upgrade to 200amp service. The electrician said they did it a fair bit, it was for either EV plugs or air-con. Hydro had to upgrade plus the service and panel, which had to be brought up to code. I got four 220volt plugs for my workshop as well.

 

[Ironman]

Ye pretty much unless you get lucky and your insurance tells you that your once approved aluminum wiring or polyB piping makes you not eligible for insurance lol.

I would say code enforcers would leave you alone for old house. I doubt a city would pull your occupancy permit on a old building because it wasn't built to current code. Unless they are informed of a structural defect and even then I doubt they would do anything as there are lots of pre 1970 buildings that could be at risk of roof collapse as they didn't really care about snow loading as much back then and you were kinda at the whim of whoever built the house to use there better judgement when designing the trusses.

I would say insurance will be the first one to come out the wood works and make you fix a problem. Also probly the first ones to find any reason to not cover you.

I have insurance on my truck, that's all. Been 10 years now with no fire insurance after seeing the performance against other insured people in this area. Insurance companies kept jacking it 1000 a year because of flooding in Calgary, they wanted me to have a sewer rider on my septic system. Good riddance. I have enough savings to replace mine if it burns, but that is very unlikely. In the US it's 1 in 3000, in the country where houses are miles apart it's way more unlikely.

 

[Elektrishun]

I have insurance on my truck, that's all. Been 10 years now with no fire insurance after seeing the performance against other insured people in this area. Insurance companies kept jacking it 1000 a year because of flooding in Calgary, they wanted me to have a sewer rider on my septic system. Good riddance. I have enough savings to replace mine if it burns, but that is very unlikely. In the US it's 1 in 3000, in the country where houses are miles apart it's way more unlikely.

Everytime there is a big flood in an area where numerous buildings and houses are affected I always wonder what the long term affect is?

Some of the old buildings I worked in were prone to plumbing failures and sewer line back-ups. Often after the repairs and basic clean-up we would need to bring in a company to do a thorough clean. Those buildings were still nasty.

When I see places like Calgary and New York flooding I can't imagine everybody is getting their homes and buildings properly repaired and cleaned afterwards. The mold and rotting infrastructure in those locations must be exceptional - no?

 

[Tom O]

I just use the age old saying “ Always build on the high ground “ the Calgary flood was a lot of low lying areas but I’m sure they did a risk assessment before building Cough, Cough.