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RF30 Basement Install
- Thread starter YYCHM
- Start date
DRO install phase I...….
After much agonizing over which side of the mill to install my DRO display, I finally concluded as @David_R8 did the right side is the only real option. Hell, I even agonized over what size cap screws to use LOL. Ended up using 1/4-20 as I have a drill bit of the appropriate size, the correct size drill bit for a M5 screw kind of eluded me.
As you can see, the LH side of the mill gets a little crowded with the belt cover open. I was sorely tempted as the RH side bumps into the down feed handles by a smidge.
Man cast iron drills and taps nicely, that was the easy part
Monday I take the table and saddle over to @RobinHood to have lubrication ports drilled, Gibb adjustment screw holes installed and DRO scale holes drilled and tapped.
More to come...….
After much agonizing over which side of the mill to install my DRO display, I finally concluded as @David_R8 did the right side is the only real option. Hell, I even agonized over what size cap screws to use LOL. Ended up using 1/4-20 as I have a drill bit of the appropriate size, the correct size drill bit for a M5 screw kind of eluded me.
As you can see, the LH side of the mill gets a little crowded with the belt cover open. I was sorely tempted as the RH side bumps into the down feed handles by a smidge.
Man cast iron drills and taps nicely, that was the easy part
Monday I take the table and saddle over to @RobinHood to have lubrication ports drilled, Gibb adjustment screw holes installed and DRO scale holes drilled and tapped.
More to come...….
Well..... I just spend the last two days with Rudy (@RobinHood) from 10am to 5pm non-stop installing oiling ports, x-axis Gibb adjustment screws and x-axis DRO scale mounting screws in my table and saddle. Rudy also took some dovetail measurements and did some fine tuning (aka scraping) of my saddle dovetails and Gibbs. I'll let Rudy explain what he found regarding that.
Monday was essentially spend installing the lubrication ports in the table and saddle.
For the Gibb side of the y-axis we drilled a 1/8" through the saddle, then intersected that hole with another 1/8" hole, and installed a grease fitting. Further more we drilled a 1/8" hole in the Gibb and recessed a channel across that on the stationary side of the Gibb to accommodate some Gibb adjustment movement. Oil can always reach that hole in the Gibb and lubricated the sliding side. Rudy really knows his stuff I tell you.
The other side of the y-axis is the same arrangement but of course there is no Gibb. Notice how that vertical hole intersects a curly oil groove. That was a bit of dumb luck as you will see.
For the x-axis we decided to leverage off two bolt holes already in the table rather than drill two more. The plan here is to drill through the bolt and install a press fit grease fitting, so all's we had to do was drill the 1/8" intersecting hole. In this case we didn't luck out and intersect a curly oiling groove and had to mill a shallow channel over to it. Once again the Gibb was drilled 1/8" and an adjustment channel milled.
This the back side of the x-axis.
By the time we got this all done it was 5pm and I was exhausted so we called it quits, tomorrow was another day.
Lots of learning was involved here including how to drive a full size manual Bridgeport Rudy is very much a hands on instructor.
Craig
Monday was essentially spend installing the lubrication ports in the table and saddle.
For the Gibb side of the y-axis we drilled a 1/8" through the saddle, then intersected that hole with another 1/8" hole, and installed a grease fitting. Further more we drilled a 1/8" hole in the Gibb and recessed a channel across that on the stationary side of the Gibb to accommodate some Gibb adjustment movement. Oil can always reach that hole in the Gibb and lubricated the sliding side. Rudy really knows his stuff I tell you.
The other side of the y-axis is the same arrangement but of course there is no Gibb. Notice how that vertical hole intersects a curly oil groove. That was a bit of dumb luck as you will see.
For the x-axis we decided to leverage off two bolt holes already in the table rather than drill two more. The plan here is to drill through the bolt and install a press fit grease fitting, so all's we had to do was drill the 1/8" intersecting hole. In this case we didn't luck out and intersect a curly oiling groove and had to mill a shallow channel over to it. Once again the Gibb was drilled 1/8" and an adjustment channel milled.
This the back side of the x-axis.
By the time we got this all done it was 5pm and I was exhausted so we called it quits, tomorrow was another day.
Lots of learning was involved here including how to drive a full size manual Bridgeport
Rudy is very much a hands on instructor.Craig
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thriller007
Well-Known Member
What do you use to get all the symmetrical grooves in there? And after you are done with your machine feel free to come work on mine.
Those circular oils grooves are original to the machine. We just modified things such that oil can be pumped in to reach them and the sliding side of the Gibbs.
historicalarms
Ultra Member
DRO install phase I...….
View attachment 10442
After much agonizing over which side of the mill to install my DRO display, I finally concluded as @David_R8 did the right side is the only real option. Hell, I even agonized over what size cap screws to use LOL. Ended up using 1/4-20 as I have a drill bit of the appropriate size, the correct size drill bit for a M5 screw kind of eluded me.
View attachment 10443
As you can see, the LH side of the mill gets a little crowded with the belt cover open. I was sorely tempted as the RH side bumps into the down feed handles by a smidge.
Man cast iron drills and taps nicely, that was the easy part
Monday I take the table and saddle over to @RobinHood to have lubrication ports drilled, Gibb adjustment screw holes installed and DRO scale holes drilled and tapped.
More to come...….
Yes that top is always in the road... I just removed the top lid forever on my 30. The belts are high enough that there is absolutely no danger of becoming entangled in a pulley. You have to fully open it anyways to do any belt changes and that is the only time an operator will be within the danger zone. I store the lid behind the column so it is there for re-sale and quick access to the speed chart.
Edited to add: just to clarify, I leave the bottom pan part of the belt guards intact...just removed the top lid. the bottom of the pan still encases all the belt drives & will deflect any errant long bars or tool handles that I might not be watching close enough.
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Back in post #227 of this thread, Craig asked the group for help installing the table gib. @Dabbler and I went over to Craig’s and managed to install the gib by shimming it up off the saddle so that the machine at least became usable. Then there was the problem with tramming in the vise because the table has ”slop” in Y (about 2-3 thou) on the gib adjusting screw side. It was overcome by permanently having the RH gib lock push against the gib to take up the slop.
While the table and saddle were at my shop, we had a look at it. The table dove tails were measured over pins (well, a 9/16” and a 5/8” end mill shank actually since I don’t have any gage pins larger than 0.500”). The actual measurement does not matter, we just wanted to see if the DTs are parallel - they were (deviation anywhere along the table was about 2-3 tenths). I call that good.
Next we used a Grade A straight edge to check the table’s bearing surfaces on the saddle. They were not very good. Lots of light shone through underneath. We draw filed the surfaces until the straight edge was showing equal light distribution. Sliding the saddle on the table produced enough “shiny” high spots (clearly visible in the bright sunlight), which were scraped off. We repeated that process until we got the table to slide well on the saddle. We did the same with the gib / table / saddle combo.
(Richard King and any of the other scraping gods would probably have a heart attack if they read how it did this).
Please note: what I did here was to make the mill more functional by correcting the major bearing surface problems. It is just a start down the road of scraping / blueing / checking all the surfaces to each other. It would probably take a few days to do this effectively with power tools and quite a bit longer with hand tools only. But, the gib can now be installed without a fight and no paper shimming is required.
So the gib: it does have a slight bend (a thou or two) in the center. I don’t think it is so bad that it can’t be salvaged. The bigger problem is the taper angle is not quite correct; the thin end is too thick (or the thick end too thin) by about 2-3 thou. The same amount that Craig sees as table slop in Y. The way to correct that is to accurately measure the error, surface grind the new geometry and then scrape to fit. Or it could all be step scraped out. Possibly a project for the future?
In the mean time we installed “push screws” 1.25” from each saddle end to take up the slop. The gib locks can thus be used as normal.
Craig will make brass pads for all his gib locking screws and the new push screws so that the steel does not bear directly on the cast iron (like is does from factory) and mar up the gib surface.
While the table and saddle were at my shop, we had a look at it. The table dove tails were measured over pins (well, a 9/16” and a 5/8” end mill shank actually since I don’t have any gage pins larger than 0.500”). The actual measurement does not matter, we just wanted to see if the DTs are parallel - they were (deviation anywhere along the table was about 2-3 tenths). I call that good.
Next we used a Grade A straight edge to check the table’s bearing surfaces on the saddle. They were not very good. Lots of light shone through underneath. We draw filed the surfaces until the straight edge was showing equal light distribution. Sliding the saddle on the table produced enough “shiny” high spots (clearly visible in the bright sunlight), which were scraped off. We repeated that process until we got the table to slide well on the saddle. We did the same with the gib / table / saddle combo.
(Richard King and any of the other scraping gods would probably have a heart attack if they read how it did this).
Please note: what I did here was to make the mill more functional by correcting the major bearing surface problems. It is just a start down the road of scraping / blueing / checking all the surfaces to each other. It would probably take a few days to do this effectively with power tools and quite a bit longer with hand tools only. But, the gib can now be installed without a fight and no paper shimming is required.
So the gib: it does have a slight bend (a thou or two) in the center. I don’t think it is so bad that it can’t be salvaged. The bigger problem is the taper angle is not quite correct; the thin end is too thick (or the thick end too thin) by about 2-3 thou. The same amount that Craig sees as table slop in Y. The way to correct that is to accurately measure the error, surface grind the new geometry and then scrape to fit. Or it could all be step scraped out. Possibly a project for the future?
In the mean time we installed “push screws” 1.25” from each saddle end to take up the slop. The gib locks can thus be used as normal.
Craig will make brass pads for all his gib locking screws and the new push screws so that the steel does not bear directly on the cast iron (like is does from factory) and mar up the gib surface.
The x-axis Gibb installed without a glitch
And the table just glides back and forth smooth as silk by hand. What a difference Rudy's scraping made!
DRO install phase II complete.
I now have the x-axis reading, thanks to @RobinHood drilling and tapping my table and saddle.
Thanks Rudy!!!!!
And..... killed a long overdue to-do item.
Made brass pads for all of my Gibb locking screws.
Craig
And the table just glides back and forth smooth as silk by hand. What a difference Rudy's scraping made!
DRO install phase II complete.
I now have the x-axis reading, thanks to @RobinHood drilling and tapping my table and saddle.
Thanks Rudy!!!!!
And..... killed a long overdue to-do item.
Made brass pads for all of my Gibb locking screws.
Craig
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Thanks for the compliments guys.
Not all of the DRO mounting hole drilling/tapping was smooth sailing... they are M4x0.7
This Is what happens when you power tap into a blind hole and don’t pay attention.... yeah, I turned the spindle off in time, but did not “dead-stop” it with the brake, rather let it coast - - - to a “crunch”.
The good news was that we got to practice our tap-extraction skills...
Both the hole and threads were saved in the end.
Not all of the DRO mounting hole drilling/tapping was smooth sailing... they are M4x0.7
This Is what happens when you power tap into a blind hole and don’t pay attention.... yeah, I turned the spindle off in time, but did not “dead-stop” it with the brake, rather let it coast - - - to a “crunch”.
The good news was that we got to practice our tap-extraction skills...
Both the hole and threads were saved in the end.
I did my brass pads a little overly complicated with a bearing ball in between. So it was near frictionless torque but applied axial force to the gib. Depending on how much thread you have in the table I guess you could just stick the brass slug it in the hole, tighten the bolt & it should self-align to dovetail angle. Or you could drill a recess hole in the bolt for a matching stem on the pad & therefore the pad could be quite short if you are running low on thread. Either way you have to make the dovetail angle so it might be beneficial to leaving the brass longer so you have something to hold onto in the mill vise to mill the angle.
Another option is just a brass ended bolt with a hemi shape. Or maybe a brass bolt since we don't gronk on them? But that will be point contact instead of the full footprint of a bevelled foot. I was very tempted to drill the hole larger so I could accommodate a larger pad with more surface area but I chickened out. It seemed to lock positively enough. For some reason my 935 mill is a lot more positive & I cant really figure out why. Its just the plain vanilla bolt. I can set a bit of drag & sneak up on a DRO number reliably. My RF-45 would drift by tightening until the remedy.
Another option is just a brass ended bolt with a hemi shape. Or maybe a brass bolt since we don't gronk on them? But that will be point contact instead of the full footprint of a bevelled foot. I was very tempted to drill the hole larger so I could accommodate a larger pad with more surface area but I chickened out. It seemed to lock positively enough. For some reason my 935 mill is a lot more positive & I cant really figure out why. Its just the plain vanilla bolt. I can set a bit of drag & sneak up on a DRO number reliably. My RF-45 would drift by tightening until the remedy.
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Whew! Good save. On blind holes I usually break out my homebrew. It slips in the chuck jaws or collet to guide axially.
I've never used those extractors before. Do the fingers go into the flutes? What do you do if its got chips packed in there?
Attachments
Yes, the extractor set comes with 2, 3 or 4 fingers in various sizes each to go inside the flutes of the broken tap. The biggest challenge is getting enough of the flutes cleared out to insert the fingers. In our case we were tapping CI, so a little work with a pick and compressed air cleared the flutes. The next challenge is to get the tap piece to unjam from the threads that it has already formed. Once that is achieved, the tap usually comes out. Patience is king. Any slight movement is good news. Probably took about 15 min to get it out. I have spent hours in the past to remove broken taps (when the part needed to be saved).
Nice home made tap holder. Must give you lots of control.
Yeah, I also usually leave the collet just snug to allow the tap to slip (it was obviously too tight this time). My problem in this case was 100% inattention at a critical time; the other 3 M4 holes and two 10-24 holes were power tapped just fine.
Nice home made tap holder. Must give you lots of control.
Yeah, I also usually leave the collet just snug to allow the tap to slip (it was obviously too tight this time). My problem in this case was 100% inattention at a critical time; the other 3 M4 holes and two 10-24 holes were power tapped just fine.
On my list of useful tooling is kind of a mini annular cutter that would cut a slightly oversize ring leaving the broken tap in the middle. I made a hack job one from O-1 & it actually worked OK despite being a hand Dremeled tooth affair. You kind of peck drill with fluid, clean chips but it makes progress. The goal is remove a slightly oversize plug of metal along with the tap remnant of course, Loctite a slug of native material in the hole & ideally save the valuable part. I think just having the emergency tool it in a drawer would emanate enough powerful JuJu to never break a tap again. LOL
More progress...… I installed the front and back x-axis oiling point grease fittings.
Front grease fitting.
Back grease fitting.
Pretty ease actually. Chuck up the 1/4" bolt on the lathe and drill through it with a 1/8" bit, then drill the head 3/16" the depth of the press fit grease nipple attachment barrel. Press the nipple into the bolt head with the vise and voila.
I tested them with my grease gun and they flowed grease so they should work with oil.
Front grease fitting.
Back grease fitting.
Pretty ease actually. Chuck up the 1/4" bolt on the lathe and drill through it with a 1/8" bit, then drill the head 3/16" the depth of the press fit grease nipple attachment barrel. Press the nipple into the bolt head with the vise and voila.
I tested them with my grease gun and they flowed grease so they should work with oil.
trlvn
Ultra Member
I've never used an oiling system with a pump gun. Do you have links to the fittings and gun you are using?
How much pressure will it take to inject the oil? Any concern that the nipple may work itself out of the drilled hole due to that pressure (and lube)?
Craig