Restoration/Repairs on a 10" LD Utilathe - Standard Modern

[Brent H]

A bit of information that maybe one in a few million may find interesting......

A person on Kijiji was looking for a motor for his 10" Utilathe so I contacted him and we have a few e-mails going back and forth. He sent me some pics of his lathe and the mount section and I got to thinking.......

I went to the Lebond site and re-read their brief history of "Standard Modern"

"Standard Machine & Tool was founded in 1931 by two partners in Windsor, Ontario, Canada. In 1935, an unrelated company began operations in Toronto as Modern Tools Works. Staveley Industries, a British company, purchased both Standard Machine & Tool Ltd. and Modern Tool Works Ltd. in 1955. The combined entity was incorporated under the name Standard Modern Tool Company Ltd. with operations in Toronto."

The big "MODERN" is also cast into the gear cover on the end of his lathe. My lathe has a plaque riveted on and no "Modern" on the gear cover :


There are a couple other noticeable things as well, his lathe is metric - all metric for the QCGB. His head stock sports a threaded chuck spindle verses the D1-3 spindle fitted to mine. I am not sure if the gibs on his are set screw adjusted or a taper but I think they are probably set screw. His Serial number is like 71-4 and mine is U530

I am now wondering if his lathe is perhaps from the Modern Tool Works and would be built between 1935 and 1955. My lathe has the "Standard- Modern" plaque and has Toronto Windsor as the build location - So built after 1955.?

It is fascinating that the "MODERN" lathe is metric and built possibly before 1955 as Canada was not really a metric place until things got going in the 1970's. My lathe is all Imperial and it is laid out that way in the manual.....The fact that a British company bought and put the two companies together should have strengthened the metric preference, however, a big purchaser was the US military. hmmmm.....can the serial numbers be worked into a date code........will have to break out the enigma machine...

 

[RobinHood]

hmmmm.....can the serial numbers be worked into a date code........will have to break out the enigma machine...

i would contact Standard Modern with your serial number(s). When I asked them for info regarding date of manufacture of my SM1340 (by giving them the serial number), they came back with a “shipping date” out of the factory. Based on that, at least I knew ball park what vintage it is. I was told that they had some ”event” in their archives in the past (fire/flood - not sure) and have lost a lot of the detailed info; that is why some of their older manuals have faded/hard to read blue prints in them.

 

[Brent H]

Ahhhhhh........ the dreaded “event”.
Could be why there is so little out there on the company when it was split. (Modern/Standard Pre 1955). Seems like the “MODERN” machines are the ones in the manuals for the 10 and 12” LD models (pre 1955) and then changes started with the amalgamation - the change or phase out of the 10/12 to the 11/13?
My 10 seems more like the 11 with its construction differences between the 10/12 in the older manual? and sort of firmed up with the man who needs a motor.

When I got my lathe it cam with 2 motors, a 1 Hp 3 phase older model Century electric and a 3/4 Hp farm duty type Leeson.

When YYC bought the 9" Utlathe donor lathe I pulled off a 1/2 Hp Century 3 phase motor looking to be in the same era. This suggested to to me that the motor now running on my lathe (3 phase Century) is the original for the machine. The Part Number is 8-111069-01 possibly hinting that this motor is from 1969. With a serial number on the lathe of U530 it is possible this lathe was made on my birthday.....how crazy would that be! I think I will send off a blurb to Standard Modern. My last contact was for gears and that prompted me to buy enough tooling to do it myself and still save hundreds......hmmmmmm... LOL

 

[RobinHood]

sure would be interesting to somehow piece together their history....

My last contact was for gears and that prompted me to buy enough tooling to do it myself and still save hundreds......hmmmmmm..

i hear you: they quoted USD 1600 + for a set of change gears to make my 1340 (a metric machine) also cut SAE threads. I just made them myself after I got my mill with all the accessories. I was even ready to try to make them on the lathe itself before that...

 

[YYCHM]

At least you guys got a response. Did you phone them? I tried their on-line msg system. Got nothing.

 

[Brent H]

Try Amanda Stagg at Racer astagg@racerinternational.com

Racer is the Standard Modern place in Cambridge Ontario:

Amanda Stagg

1030 Fountain St N. Cambridge, ON Canada N3H 4R7
CANADA T +1.519.623.6223 x212 | F +1.519.623.1122 | USA T +1.716.462.6224 x212 | F +1.716.462.6227

astagg@racerinternational.com | www.racerinternational.com | Toll NA 1.888.514.1661 |

 

[YYCHM]

So a few weeks ago I purchased a 10' LD Standard Modern Utilathe serial number U530. The serial number is a bit like a submarine so I hope this project stays afloat and the lathe doesn't become a dive site somewhere.

Some trivia for you.

U530 was surrendered in Argentina in 1945 and later sunk as a torpedo test target.

My machine is serial U379. U379 was sunk by the allies in the Atlantic in 1943

 

[Brent H]

Today was a good day and a bad day.....
After re-machining my tailstock spindle I needed to do a proper alignment.
At work, we have been tweaking our lathe and I machined a test piece. Over 11” our lathe at work was out less than a tenth - I brought the piece home to test my lathe between centres.

originally i was out 0.001 over the 11” length but my real question was how low my tailstock was. It was low 0.005”. I had new shim stock so I cut a new set of shims and bolted things up.
After re-setting everything and adjusting the tailstock I am about 0.0002” on the horizontal and about 0.0005 high on the vertical - I did a little dance!!!

The set up:


then came the bad part of the day with a mag chuck I was working on that was a bit stuck. I gave the on/off handle a tap to see if it would free up - heard a crack and then - “lots of cursing and WTF’s!!”


Looks like a part will need to be made out of aluminium - argh!!

and no, I didn’t beat the he k out of it -maybe a decent tap from a small child being carful. - anyway. Another post on this repair will be in order.

my stamps came in for indexing the spindle so we will see what goes on there.

 

[DavidR8]

Awesome stuff on the alignment.
Crappy luck on the mag chuck! [emoji51]


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[YotaBota]

Nice bar, you're going to miss those like perks when you retire I know I do.
Is the break in the base dirty like its been cracked for a while? If the crack had already started it wouldn't take a big hit to finish it off.

 

[Brent H]

One crack was there - possibly multiple. It is an 8 x 18 i think - got for $150 - it worked - ish - needed a clean - alas - gotta make stuff I guess-

 

[Brent H]

Picked up an ER 32 collet adaptor and a D1-3 back plate (5”) and took some time to machine the back plate and fit the collet adaptor.




Got the fit to be a tap on - nice - then found that the 3 holes needed for attachment were just a few thou off of being concentric - Argh! Fitted the collet adaptor, punched the thread centres and then drilled and counter bored the back plate.
I used those stubby drills from KBC tools - awesome bits!!! There is a thread on the Forums about them - great purchase.
Got everything set up (pic 3). The whole thing assembled dials in at maybe a tenth.

Should be a nice addition for making multiple items. The OD of the backing plate is 5 ish inches but you can see from Pic 2 that the multiple mounting arrangements sorta dictate to leave the thing as it is.

 

[PeterT]

Nice Brent. So does the ER plate have a recess like a chuck & that's what is fitting the lip of adapter plate?
Can you make provisions for any 'set-tru' type adjuster screws or is this what I'm seeing here?

 

[Brent H]

Hey Peter,

yes, the plate has a recess in the back- just like a regular type Chuck. The only thing I found is that the whole thing is hardened - so you cannot easily drill for new mounting holes. It is also ground to finish.
The hole you have pointed to is just that - a blind hole. There are two of them. They are for a rod to hold the chuck while you tighten or loosen the collet. (Not Supplied)

i deliberated the 5C type arrangement but I have both imperial and metric ER 32 collets for the mill. They go up to just under 1 inch - I also have the square and hex in the ER 32 so.... seemed somewhat logical. The collets also seem like they would do less damage to threads - like for working threaded rod or bolts etc.
The collet adaptor was amazon purchase.

 

[DavidR8]

I was just looking at a similar collet chuck on Banggood. Same price point too but obviously the Amazon one would arrive much quicker!
Overall are you pleased with it?


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[Brent H]

Hi David,
It seems pretty good. They make one size diameter smaller - cheaper as well.

After machining my backer plate, the ER 32 dialed in with no deflection on my gauge. Both inside the collet landing and on the outer diameter. The threaded part was off 0.002”. Did not seem to affect anything.

Arrived quickly. Given the small diameter the 100 mm OD was the limit for a D1-3 style. You can see I was close to machining off other bolts - LOL. A threaded chuck as you have would probably work quite well

Value wise I think this will be great for small rod, threaded rod, working close to the collet and if your lathe has a milling type holder for the saddle then this will hold end mills quite nicely.

 

[PeterT]

I think the ER plates could have another happy home on a rotary table. Depending on your T-slot (3 vs 4 vs hole pattern in the plate or ability to drill new holes) it could be mounted directly to the RT platten. Probably shave 2-4" over a chuck /plate combo all other things equal. The 'wedding cake' syndrome robs so much headroom from a mill. Mind you you could only collet smallish round stock to the limit of ER ID. A chuck is more useful for larger or irregular stock.

 

[DavidR8]

Thanks for that @Brent H, as a matter of fact I do have a milling attachment on the way so the ability to properly hold an end mill is a big part of why I’m thinking about one.

Plus Shars is sending me a new backing plate so I can use the one I cut for the 4-jaw for the collet chuck

I did see the smaller chuck but skipped over it in favour of the one you have.
I’ll go back and look at the smaller version.


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[Brent H]

Hi David - just make sure there is enough meat on the backing plate around the inner hole diameter if you go with the small one. I also left the backing plate original size so there would be some mass in the headstock end of things.

 

[Marc Moreau]

The Lathe re-assembled:

View attachment 5604


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Gear box not yet on on the above pic

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Things that didn't pan out:

Original 3 jaw chuck is pretty much scrap. The jaws would need 100% re-doing and there is damage to the D1-3 spindle pins that make it a bit sketchy to use. I bought new 3 and 4 jaw chucks, machined the back plates and fit them to the lathe. I turned a test shaft and shimmed the head stock in to less than 0.0002" of run out over a 5 inch stick out. The above pic is a quick test turning and it worked out quite well.

The Tail stock needs to be line bored to be on the money. I will be making up some jigs and giving that a go over the next couple months. With the tailstock quill out to 3" it will wobble quite a bit ( over .010") I have a new over size quill I machined up out of some 4140 so I have to thread it (1/2 x10 Tpi ACME LH) and I have the #2 MT already bored. It needs some oil passages and a 1/4" groove for the locking arrangement.

I will be re-making the main gear at some point and will also remake the bronze feed gear and fine/coarse selector rod and the feed bevel gears.

The lathe is running now quite well and although it has a few "more noisy" speeds it is a super great addition to the shop. I have used it to make up some 1" x 14 tpi levelling feet:
View attachment 5610

and some lathe chuck keys

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J'ai beaucoup plus de photos et d'autres choses, mais je vais m'arrêter ici --- c'est un jour de pluie, donc obtenir ce post était un beau projet! [/ QUOTE]
Wow la couleur de ton gris est ma couleur favorite . Mon plancher de garage était de cette couleur. Pouvez vous me dire tout sur cette peinture ? Merci