Really ?

[YotaBota]

Maybe they were hearing protection style ear muffs

The news reports said they were music headphones and not just hearing protection. You're right about the safety devices though, mine are 32db muffs and work great as long as no one is yelling "LOOK OUT" at me.

 

[Susquatch]

Money factors into everything. But if the evidence shows that helmets and seat belts save people why wouldn't you adopt it?

Humans make decisions based on many factors, not just safety and risk. Thrillseeking with activities like skydiving and rodeos don't make any sense at all to many of us. Similarly we take risks driving to work each and every day. In that context, it's easy to think about the safety of a helmut vs the wind in our hair riding a pedal bike. It's just a choice we make despite the evidence. We all make risk related decisions each and every day. Some people are just more risk averse than others. But we all take risks. It's just a matter of degree.

 

[Elektrishun]

Humans make decisions based on many factors, not just safety and risk. Thrillseeking with activities like skydiving and rodeos don't make any sense at all to many of us. Similarly we take risks driving to work each and every day. In that context, it's easy to think about the safety of a helmut vs the wind in our hair riding a pedal bike. It's just a choice we make despite the evidence. We all make risk related decisions each and every day. Some people are just more risk averse than others. But we all take risks. It's just a matter of degree.

Can't prevent all accidents but you can go a long way to mitigate the damage when something goes wrong.

I don't know the stats but I would expect that it is riskier to not use a seatbelt or a helmet when driving in a city than it is to jump out of a plane.

 

[slow-poke]

Can't prevent all accidents but you can go a long way to mitigate the damage when something goes wrong.

I don't know the stats but I would expect that it is riskier to not use a seatbelt or a helmet when driving in a city than it is to jump out of a plane.Skydiving fatalities 10 per 3.6 million, so safer than many activities for example scuba diving.. IMHO if you pick a good skydiving school you're pretty safe. The school I went to everyone packs their own chute. The initial free fall until your chute opens is quite the feeling landing if you flare properly is like stepping off a chair or perhaps even softer. N your first jump you can maneuver to within say 10' of your desired target.

Yes safer than many activities for example scuba diving. Stats are 10 per 3.6 million jumps. Picking a good school can further change those odds in your favour. We avoided the school north of GTA at the time they used antiquated equipment and had a poor safety record. The school we chose had no fatalities and very low accidents. Everyone packs their own chute.

For those that have not done it, the initial free fall is quite the feeling but after your chute is open it's a really pleasant slow ride down. You can maneuver very easily you can land within about 10' of your desired landing spot on your first jump and if you flare properly the actual touchdown is softer than stepping off a chair.

They rehearse what to do if your chute doesn't deploy or if you get a bad chute (a twister). If that were to happen on your first jump, you better have composure because you need to jettison your bad chute (making sure to not jettison your emergency backup and you don't have forever to do it, I would imagine some percentage of the population would screw up under pressure.

I scuba dive and I found cave diving much riskier and scary in comparison. I find a ride on a fast motorcycle or even driving a car at > 140MPH a bit scary not so much the actual event but the thought of what happens if something goes sideways. I'm a bit of a thrill seeker but I once had a ride in an old spy plane and the pilot quickly found my thrill seeking tolerance;-) so it's all relative. I have a good friend that is a serious adrenaline junkie and he had a "good" ride in a voodoo and he was white hours later I had a good chuckle hearing from him about how scary it was.

I think "those" pilots are another breed altogether, I recall picking strawberries in California adjacent to a military airfield, some guy was heading home for the day I guess and the road from the airbase to the highway was > km long he had his motorcycle up to at least 175MPH I have never observed a motorcycle going that fast.

 

[Elektrishun]

I scuba dive and I found cave diving much riskier and scary in comparison. I find a fast ride on a motorcycle or even driving a car at > 140MPH a bit scary not so much the actual event but the thought of what happens if something goes sideways. I'm a bit of a thrill seeker but I once had a ride in an old spy plane and the pilot quickly found my thrill seeking tolerance;-) so it's all relative. I have a good friend that is a serious adrenaline junkie and he had a "good" ride in a voodoo and he was white hours later I had a good chuckle hearing from him how scary it was.

I don't like tight spaces ever since my brother intentionally collapsed a snow fort on top of me and I got trapped. I think I was 7 at the time. Cave diving, cave exploring, anything to do with caves other than The Cave restaurant in Saskatoon and I'm out.

 

[Doggggboy]

I don't like tight spaces ever since my brother intentionally collapsed a snow fort on top of me and I got trapped. I think I was 7 at the time. Cave diving, cave exploring, anything to do with caves other than The Cave restaurant in Saskatoon and I'm out.

Brothers can be real a-holes.

 

[slow-poke]

Brothers can be real a-holes.

I have a great brother but he did test me. One thing he would do in front of his friends for their entertainment was the limbo, he would grab me and manipulate me so I was bent over backwards in the limbo position and somehow I was always able to get myself straightened up and out of the limbo position even when I was seriously bent over. Sometimes it would take a fair bit of time while they laughed and they found this hilarious. All in good fun.

 

[JustaDB]

But if the evidence shows that helmets and seat belts save people why wouldn't you adopt it?

I haven't seen any recent data, but when I was still following the motorcycle helmet debate back in the 80's & early 90's, the data clearly showed that states with mandatory helmet laws had both higher rates of accidents and higher death rates than those without mandatory laws. Better vision, better hearing, no false sense of security.

 

[Elektrishun]

I haven't seen any recent data, but when I was still following the motorcycle helmet debate back in the 80's & early 90's, the data clearly showed that states with mandatory helmet laws had both higher rates of accidents and higher death rates than those without mandatory laws. Better vision, better hearing, no false sense of security.

Accident stats

Just one source that flips that completely around. Is it legit? I dunno. I am always a little skeptical with stats.

 

[Elektrishun]

Same source making big claims

Lax helmet laws have killed more than 20,000 motorcyclists, study shows​

October 16, 2024


In my last job I was heavily involved with improving safety so that's where I am coming from.

Risk Management - what can you control vs what you can't.

You can put a helmet on and buckle up. Such an easy thing to do. Like wearing safety glasses and steel toed boots on a construction site. It's called due diligence at work. Covers management's ass and might save yours.

 

[JustaDB]

I don't understand this generation of people who walk around with something blasting in their ears while walking such that their sense of hearing is effectively disabled.

Up in Calgary today, heading east on Glenmore Trail. Stopped at the red light at 52nd behind a car in the hammer lane sporting a big yellow sticker, "Beginning Driver, please be patient". He pulled away from the light dead slow, traffic is piling up behind us. People are changing to the LH lanes & going around him. We did, too. As we got alongside we could see the full coverage headphones (not ear buds) on the young black kid.

 

[JustaDB]

I am always a little skeptical with stats.

Me, too. The stats back then also showed that states w/ mandatory helmet laws that repealed said laws had both lower accident rates & lower fatalities.

 

[Elektrishun]

Me, too. The stats back then also showed that states w/ mandatory helmet laws that repealed said laws had both lower accident rates & lower fatalities.

I am looking for sources that might be less likely to have conflicting hidden agendas:

Eastern Association for the Surgery of Trauma

According to the National Highway Traffic Safety Association, in 2008, 5,290 motorcyclists died and 96,000 were injured. Motorcycles make up ∼3% of all registered vehicles in the United States and account for only 0.4% of all vehicle miles traveled. However, motorcycle crashes accounted for ∼10% of all motor vehicle crash fatalities, and per mile traveled, motor cycle crashes are ∼37 times more lethal than automobile crashes.

Head injuries are one of the most common injuries after motorcycle crashes and were estimated to be the cause of death in >50% of these fatalities. In close to a third of these victims, the head injury is the sole organ system that is injured. However, in the majority of patients, estimated as high as 90% of some patient cohorts, a head injury is present along with other injuries. Despite these facts, it is estimated that only 50% of motorcyclists routinely wear helmets.

It was intuitive even to our earliest ancestors that a hard shell would protect the head from injury. However, establishing the effectiveness of the motorcycle helmet remains a challenging effort especially in light of the powerful opposition to universal helmet laws. Furthermore, quantifying the protective effect of helmets supports the promotion of helmet programs regardless of the controversial nature of legislative efforts.


I know this is a serious topic but I instantly got a picture of Fred Flintstone in my head after reading that last paragraph.