Really ?

[Elektrishun]

Her choice.

I don't think we're too far apart on this subject.

We both believe adults should be able to choose for themselves.

If someone is dictating/educating/demonstrating to others what they should do then would it not seem rather absurd to then do the opposite right in front of those same people, especially your own children?

Most kids may not know the word "hypocrite" but most know bull***t when it's right in front of them. Teaching kids isn't always easy. Even harder when they don't respect you.

 

[JustaDB]

If someone is dictating/educating/demonstrating to others what they should do then would it not seem rather absurd to then do the opposite right in front of those same people, especially your own children?

No. It's one of the privileges of being an adult. The ability to make your own choice. Until then, suck it up. None of our children ever had an issue w/ that. Don't get me wrong, the questions were asked. However, the answer was always good enough for them.

 

[JustaDB]

Hypocrisy to me is when I see a cop roll through a stop sign. Or a co-worker texting & driving, despite it being not only against the law but against company policy.

 

[Elektrishun]

Hence my rather limited support for underage safety devices.

Not sure what safety devices you are referring to but if the device is proven to save children's lives then what is the downside?

 

[JustaDB]

Not sure what safety devices you are referring to but if the device is proven to save children's lives then what is the downside?

Bicycle helmets, seat belts, etc. The downside? (No politics) Gov't mandates interfering in every aspect of our lives, from the minute we get up in the morning until our heads hit the pillow at night. And then every minute we're asleep.

Once again: educate, train, then let us make the decisions for our children & ourselves. Quit addressing the effect instead of the cause. Lose the Nanny State.

 

[Elektrishun]

No. It's one of the privileges of being an adult. The ability to make your own choice. Until then, suck it up. None of our children ever had an issue w/ that. Don't get me wrong, the questions were asked. However, the answer was always good enough for them.

So tell your child that they should always wear a bike helmet and the go riding with them without one on because it's your privilege?

That is a privilege and it's also 100% the definition of hypocritical:

hypocritical

1. saying that you have particular moral beliefs but behaving in a way that…

dictionary.cambridge.org

 

[Elektrishun]

Bicycle helmets, seat belts, etc. The downside? (No politics) Gov't mandates interfering in every aspect of our lives, from the minute we get up in the morning until our heads hit the pillow at night. And then every minute we're asleep.

Once again: educate, train, then let us make the decisions for our children & ourselves. Quit addressing the effect instead of the cause. Lose the Nanny State.

Just disagreeing about the definition of "hypocrite" not "Nanny States".

 

[JustaDB]

So tell your child that they should always wear a bike helmet and the go riding with them without one on because it's your privilege?

No, because it's the law.

 

[Elektrishun]

No, because it's the law.

Where you live bike helmets are enforced by law?

Ahhh...did not know. Not a law here.

 

[slow-poke]

About five years ago I had a nasty spill on my mountain bike. I was on a paved path through the forest going fast. Ahead with his back towards me was one of those zombie people with big headphones on. As I was about to pass him he suddenly made a sudden step left into my path, no choice but to go off the paved path, I had to get back on the pavement because there was a tree directly ahead, front wheel got up but the rear wheel did not and I lost the bike. I bounced off the pavement three times and each time when my head came down hard I could feel the cushioning in the helmet doing an amazing job. Those helmets are incredibly well designed. I was beat to shit bleeding and messed up my shoulder that did not heal for about a year, actually still bothers me on occasion.

Lessons learned:
1) I don't get on my bike without a helmet. I would have had a nasty concussion who knows how bad.
2) Slow the f**k down when passing zombie walkers, actually slow down regardless because 50% of the time even when ringing my bell like a maniac and well in advance and they hear me, they wait until your too close for me to react and then they panic and step in your path when if they simply kept walking as they were, everything would be fine. This is especially true for groups of 2-3 woman chatting don't ask me why.
3) I'm not on an on olympic time trial, I'm a 60 something old geezer that likes to push hard and pretend he's on an Olympic time trial. Hitting a tree or a rock at speed is going to be bad so break your rhythm and slow down when passing.

I don't understand this generation of people who walk around with something blasting in their ears while walking such that their sense of hearing is effectively disabled. It just seems to be asking for trouble. Further this hoodie wearing cohort also has a tendency to step into an intersection without looking the moment the walk light illuminates, I have no doubt that Darwin will get them eventually.

 

[Chicken lights]

I believe that adulthood should bring certain privileges: some driver's licenses, joining the armed forces to defend my country if needed, having a beer w/ my buddy, voting for the idiots that shove this (as @Warlock notes) Nanny State Protection down our necks, marriage & having children, among a plethora of others. I also believe that we should protect our children, to a point.

I can almost deal w/ some mandatory things for children <18: seat belts, bicycle & motorcycle helmets, limited access to alcohol (not complete abstention), just as a few examples. Again, look at most of us what, 50+? We made it alright. Bumps, bruises, the occasional broken bone, sure. That was called growing up.

I don't believe that age-related restrictions is hypocrisy. There's a reason you don't give a class 1 license to a 14 year old: They're simply not ready.

Nor do I believe that strapping a bicycle helmet onto your child's head exhibits any particular degree of common sense. Common sense would be taking your children out & teaching them how to properly ride that bicycle, turns, braking, hand signals, dirt & gravel trails, bouncing down off a curb & back up again, the rules of the road, the joys & dangers of bicycling. Then, at 18, if they decide to continue wearing a helmet, so be it. If not, fine.

Education & proper training will save far more lives than any alleged safety device.

I've told this story to a couple members- helping a club clean up fire wood and stack it there was a father and son, the son was using a wedge and sledgehammer to split wood. I don't like poking my nose where it doesn't belong but set up a block and grabbed a splitting axe. Showed the son a better method and went back to stacking wood. The father said something about not hitting his shin and I responded he'll only do it once. It was flippant on my part but I didn't realize how society has changed so much

I'm 10-15 feet away, loosely watching the younger person, his dads roughly the same distance, there's several other adults within shouting distance, how else do you let someone learn a skill? Like you're saying about letting a child learn to bike while supervised how do you give them the space to try it without trying it?

I don't want to see anyone get hurt either but good grief

 

[JustaDB]

Where you live bike helmets are enforced by law?

<18, yes.

 

[JustaDB]

...how else do you let someone learn a skill?

4H motto: Learn to do by doing.

 

[Elektrishun]

<18, yes.

Ok, I think that might clarify our points of view.

Where you live, parents have their kids helmet up even if they don't believe it is beneficial for safety because it is a law.

Where I live, there is no bicycle helmet laws and parents can make a choice for their kids.

So when I see mom, dad, and kids biking and mom isn't wearing a helmet it appears she is being a hypocrite. Unless she and dad are at odds about helmets and safety then she is in direct contradiction with her safety message to the kids.

In your neighborhood, the same scenario, and the kids are wearing helmets because it is a law regardless what the parents stance is on safety. So if I were to assume mom was being a hypocrite I might be wrong because she might think helmets are not necessary for kids safety.

 

[Elektrishun]

I don't understand this generation of people who walk around with something blasting in their ears while walking such that their sense of hearing is effectively disabled. It just seems to be asking for trouble. Further this hoodie wearing cohort also has a tendency to step into an intersection without looking the moment the walk light illuminates, I have no doubt that Darwin will get them eventually.

I once went for a run during the winter. Took the path that leads around the river. Went off the asphalt trail onto a wood chip trail through a heavily treed area. It was middle of winter at around 7 pm so it was dark. No one else around except one jogger in front of me about 20 yards ahead. I was running a faster pace and caught up to the runner. Based on their reaction they didn't know I was there until I was about to pass. Scared the devil out of a young female jogger wearing headphones. I felt bad but really?

 

[slow-poke]

I once went for a run during the winter. Took the path that leads around the river. Went off the asphalt trail onto a wood chip trail through a heavily treed area. It was middle of winter at around 7 pm so it was dark. No one else around except one jogger in front of me about 20 yards ahead. I was running a faster pace and caught up to the runner. Based on their reaction they didn't know I was there until I was about to pass. Scared the devil out of a young female jogger wearing headphones. I felt bad but really?

My point exactly, I think many of this cohort were coddled to the point that they have learned near zero street smarts. Hopefully they will experience enough close calls that they will eventually grow up. Reminds me of the tourist in South Africa that got out of the car in a nature reserve and then walked within 6' of a lion to take a good picture of the nice cuddly lion. At least the family back home could enjoy the one and only action photo.

 

[YotaBota]

A few years ago there was a helicopter crash in residential area of a town in BC. The chopper landed on and killed a guy wearing earmuff style headphones, he never heard it coming.