• Scam Alert. Members are reminded to NOT send money to buy anything. Don't buy things remote and have it shipped - go get it yourself, pay in person, and take your equipment with you. Scammers have burned people on this forum. Urgency, secrecy, excuses, selling for friend, newish members, FUD, are RED FLAGS. A video conference call is not adequate assurance. Face to face interactions are required. Please report suspicions to the forum admins. Stay Safe - anyone can get scammed.

NUMOBAMS 8x16 (NU-210G) Lathe Review

UPDATE - Electrical Quality

So during my disassembly I had to remove most of the electrical. While doing so I had two terminals fall off their wires. One connection fell out of the 3 pin connector for the rpm gauge and one on the power on off switch. I'm sure I'll discover more during round two of the alignment.
:confused:
Well I guess on the bright side of things when you get the thing up and running you will have confidence in the machine because you will have thoroughly gone through everything.:rolleyes:
 
I know MT is supposed to be standard but if you have one company making MT stuff using metric machines and one company using inch machines is there not a chance the MT could differ enough between the two that it could be measured?
I have a lathe test bar that has a mt3 on one end and a mt2 on the other end. The mt3 has never fit my mt3 headstock properly. I wonder if what you described above is the reason.
 
Hoping all works out for you and that a new chuck makes up for all the aggravation.

I know MT is supposed to be standard but if you have one company making MT stuff using metric machines and one company using inch machines is there not a chance the MT could differ enough between the two that it could be measured? That would also include the competency of the programmer and to what decimal place they programmed the machine cutting the MT.
That is one of my fears about getting a bar. The affordable ones seem to be made in India, it'll be shipped from there and I have no assurance of it arriving safely. They all seem to claim .0002" but I don't have a lot of faith in that either.

At least if I make a cut with the rotation of this lathe then I'll know it is what it is.
 
Well I guess on the bright side of things when you get the thing up and running you will have confidence in the machine because you will have thoroughly gone through everything.:rolleyes:
Yep, and part of me knew that I would need to do that but I was falsely given the impression and believed that this one would be better. I fell for it.
 
FWIW I have three MT test bars from India MT5, MT3 and MT2 and all appear to meet specifications.
 
I know MT is supposed to be standard but if you have one company making MT stuff using metric machines and one company using inch machines is there not a chance the MT could differ enough between the two that it could be measured? That would also include the competency of the programmer and to what decimal place they programmed the machine cutting the MT.
MT (Morse Taper) number is basically an angle when you get down to it. It came about for historical reasons & has perpetuated to current machines. Whether expressed as inch/foot, inch/inch, mm/meter, decimal degrees, Angular Deg-Min-Sec.... its the same thing & should be metric/imperial agnostic. What you might be asking is how accurately is it made which is a tolerance issue & machine/operator certainly comes into play. If there is no stated tolerance then you have to cross your fingers. If its a stated tolerance & hobbyists class & from a far away land with certain reputations & costs $50, you might also have to ask if you can believe it. And if you even have the means to even validate it. Generally speaking, centerless grinding if done properly, should be superior to anything cut off a lathe in both accuracy & finish, unless the lathe part has been lapped.

The Ebay test bar I bought was made in India which I figured was probably throwing money out the window big time. The USA made ones were way out of the budget & these are generally not high volume items. I cant recall exactly now but I think mine said 'centerless ground within 0.0002", but no stated tolerance as to the MT angle. So now we get into relative tradeoffs of unknowns & I suspect others may have a different opinion. I felt reasonably confident that my MT spindle socket was ground sufficiently accurate and ground simultaneously as the other spindle features that dictate chuck fit-up & concentricity. My DTI said it was concentric at increments down the bore (not egg shaped). Several decent quality MT tools fit very well as evidenced by blue-ing. When the test bar arrived (in a hopelessly inadequate bubble wrap envelope but semi-padded box) I checked the socket fit again by bluing & it was exceptional. Diameter readings down the length of bar confirmed the tolerance to the best of my devices (10-ths reading micrometer). I don't have a granite surface plate / datum surface to detect bar bowing but I semi-faked it by traversing down the bar with 10-ths indicator, rotate 90-deg & repeat. Again it checked out for my intended purposes.

With these basic quality checks /- confirmed, what is important to say is a test bar in this application is a glorified extension stick. We are using simple trigonometry to our advantage by comparing bar end position over an extended length: 12,18, 24" away (depending on which one you buy). The longer the length, the more it exaggerates axis displacement. Its as simple as that. So even if the bar diameter varies by 0.0002", its not nearly as significant as if bar is pointing in/out/up/down by say 0.005" over its length. Now we have a starting reference point. Assessing this same geometry discrepancy by cutting a coupon is do-able not quite straightforward because cantilever gripping a 24" long piece of whatever metal & cutting a slice off, we are left with a question: how much of the noted diameter difference (taper) is due to geometry issues and how much is due to cutting force variations, material deflection etc. Is 0.005" difference comprised by 0.003" geometry + 0.002" cutting forces? Or maybe its 0.004" cutting forces + 0.001" geometry. Lots of opinions, significantly less real world examples & hard data at least that I have seen. if someone has something to share, lets all have a look. The test bar in the socket provides some convenience in that you have the means to make the HS adjustments right then & there with DTI residing on the bar.

I'm not saying cutting has no place, it certainly does because it reflects real world conditions where the lathe is doing what its intending to do. But IMO, if its a bolt on HS I see value in validating what might be overriding dominating problems with a test bar first & followup/validation cutting second. In the end we all have to try & sort out amongst the chatter what makes sense & find our own way.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_5727_edited-1.webp
    IMG_5727_edited-1.webp
    18.9 KB · Views: 8
  • IMG_5728_edited-1.webp
    IMG_5728_edited-1.webp
    28.5 KB · Views: 8
Just wondering, could a test bar not be easily made by someone with a lathe that's accuracy is known and repeatable?
I'm curious why you need to order one from across the globe?
Ken
 
Just wondering, could a test bar not be easily made by someone with a lathe that's accuracy is known and repeatable?

The short answer is: yes.

The long one: it is not that easy, takes time and $$s to make one. Not sure what an import MT5 test bar sells for. The cost of a suitable piece of 4140 here is probably at least that amount, if not more. You have not even machined, hardened and ground it yet.

Now, if you want to make your own just for a fun project, by all means. It will take much more time/effort than most think to make an accurate test bar.
 
Looks like different (Ebay) seller names vs when I bought mine, but prices look something like this. Just enter 'MT3 test bar' or 'lathe alignment test bar'. Some sell shorties only, others various lengths. I'm reluctant to endorse so best to review the purchaser satisfaction comments & familiarize with refund policy beforehand (assuming its even offered). Looks like some now come in a wood box which is a step up from my cardboard.

I do recall the outfit I bought from had a link showing the cylindrical grinding in action. Not that I would recognize the machine or how it was operated. Or maybe that's the factory all right & I'm dealing with a middleman... who knows. For $50 I'm not expecting nuclear aerospace equipment & I personally cannot replicate grinding like this. They might be available at other distributors like Accusize or Shars now too, I haven't checked. That might provide some added QC or bailout option.
 

Attachments

  • SNAG-2022-04-30 8.49.18 AM.jpg
    SNAG-2022-04-30 8.49.18 AM.jpg
    114.2 KB · Views: 11
  • SNAG-2022-04-30 9.02.56 AM.jpg
    SNAG-2022-04-30 9.02.56 AM.jpg
    117.2 KB · Views: 10
This subject comes up quite often and usually gets re-hashed to death. In an attempt to get things back on track and no offense intended to those who disagree, I think there are many ways to test (and if possible correct) the alignment of the spindle and bed of a lathe. Its a relatively doable thing for those who understand it and voodoo magic for those who don't.

Those that do understand it seem to have their preferred method. and like me, we don't like it when someone else tells us why our method sucks compared to theirs. I don't think that's usually the intention, but it seems to be what often happens.

But the bottom line is that they all work under the right conditions. The other thing about those that do understand is that we usually assume the other guys who are asking about it are misunderstanding the whole situation or the method.

So all that said, it is my opinion that this particular OP - @opensourcefan - understands the issue just fine. I really don't think I/we are helping by further debating the matter.

For those that are particularly interested in this subject, I previously created a special thread on this forum for it. I have not had a chance to work on that project for quite a while now (main focus has been on getting my mill working) but I do hope to get to it soon. Since it's MY THREAD, it is about making a special dumbbell bar test bar with re-usable collars and optimized constraints and goals. It isn't about using Morse Tapers. Nonetheless I welcome the discussion about how much better an MT might be. In fact, ideally I'd even like to reach a consensus. Therefore, I invite anyone who has thoughts, beliefs, and preferences to join me there to help me beat the subject to death.

Thread 'Lathe Alignment' https://canadianhobbymetalworkers.com/threads/lathe-alignment.4723/



Just wondering, could a test bar not be easily made by someone with a lathe that's accuracy is known and repeatable?
I'm curious why you need to order one from across the globe?
Ken

See the above thread where I am attempting to do just that. The project is on hold right now while I finish my mill work. My concept is a fair bit more complex than just making a simple dumbbell primarily to make it re-usable but also to improve the accuracy.
 
MT5 Test Bar ordered from India. I'll advise if I don't like and when I put it up for sale.
UPDATE

Seller flaked, never shipped and didn't respond to any messages. Ebay cancelled it for me without issue. I can't seem to find a seller from India that doesn't have the same negative feedback.
 
Sorry that you’ve had such a negative response to your purchase.

I do like the colour, probably because it reminds me of the old kitchen cabinets at the cottage.

When I was looking for a lathe I stopped off at a vendor who appeared to stock only Chinese lathes at an aggressive price point. I left with the feeling that whatever I purchased from them I’d be dissapointed with. Knowing what I know now I think I’d be less reluctant, as long as I saw the actual lathe in person.

I did end up purchasing a Precision Mathew’s lathe that more than met my biases, however it was significantly more expensive than where I started out…
 
I can't seem to find a seller from India that doesn't have the same negative feedback.
I've bought as few different things from Indian eBay seller sputniktools - MT test bar, mini lathe milling attachment - and gotten good service. Very fast delivery (week to 10 days) by UPS which means that GST + $10 handling fee was payable, but that was OK with me. The test bar I bought was MT3, obviously the MT5 is bigger and more expensive: https://www.ebay.com/itm/363622460904?hash=item54a9966de8:g:o5oAAOSwIuNhkg7B
I've also purchased (adjustable reamers, HSS parting tool blanks) from eBay Indian seller daily_tools, and wasn't so impressed with the quality, though the items did arrive.
 
I got my MT5 test bar from Atoz Tools just a few weeks ago, they sell on eBay and amazon but I got it on eBay. It checks out well accuracy wise. Only real disappointment was that the wood box was not very good and went straight in the trash.
 
Back
Top