Milling Machine DRO

[Susquatch]

General - magnetic scales > glass scales... correct?

Yes. Magnetic is newer and better technology than glass. But glass will still work just fine and be just as accurate.

is there any advantage to having a scale on the tool slide? When I was researching websites trying to figure out how to figure out what I wanted, I thought I came across a diagram explaining that you could stack the tool slide dimensions on top of the x or y dimension kind of like a sum equation in excel. True? Am I misunderstanding?

Yes, that can work that way. I assume you mean compound when you say tool slide. But you have to get a DRO control box that has that feature. And even then it will only work at one angle at a time and will have to programmed to accommodate another angle. It can be quite the challenge to find one that does. You may need to learn to speak Chinese.

I believe the quill distance can be programmed to stack like the description above)?

Yes, same answer as above. And actually easier because there is no need to add an angle.

when I got the milling machine, the first comment from the one machinist (tool and die maker) friend I have was about retrofitting to CNC

He might be right. But I think that putting together a business case to actually do that is a LOT MORE complicated than setting up a cnc machine. Furthermore, it's probably easier (and cheaper) to learn to machine on a regular machine and then maybe play with cnc, and then buying a really good cnc machine to make money with. A hobby machine will probably be all worn out by the time you recoup the investment.

I'm not poo-pooing the idea, I'm just saying that I think it's a lot more involved than converting a hobby machine to cnc. Even hiring an employee is a huge issue - prolly even more than converting the machine.

But then again I'm old and don't have the energy or ambition that a young man might have....... Just saying it's a LOT more involved than asking the question here on a hobby forum.

 

[ThirtyOneDriver]

@Susquatch - not saying I would hire an employee, just referring to it to establish a value - I know earlier today I said that my time is virtually free, BUT if I could do two things concurrently I feel that it would have value. Retirement w/ injury sometimes means that doing one thing is pretty good...

It's hard to articulate and maybe I went about it in the wrong way, what's attractive about the CNC machine is not having to stand in front of it; if it pays for itself through increased income isn't as much of a factor as having to pay someone else to fab parts... when I have ideas for the racing cars that I think may/may not work, I went to be super confidential w/ it... not because I want to profit off the IP monetarily, I want to profit by having something other people/cars don't and hopefully that is an investment into being faster/more consistent.
(summary, expensive to pay for someone else's labour plus I want to keep shit a secret)

Of course, I don't need to sell anyone here on whether or not I get one but because I lack experience/knowledge I'm open to advice... explaining how I perceive things/my goals, etc. is a form of trying to get "tailor fit" advice instead of "off the rack".

I need a mentor lol and probably to steer this conversation back to Milling Machine DRO.

 

[ThirtyOneDriver]

Okay - you're input on compound and quill helps me narrow down some of the options. Magnetic vs. glass helps as well.

I've been looking on Ali for knock-off/Chinese Dorions for the most part. I have ~ 60 tabs open on one browser but your advice will help me whittle away and close a bunch. Shipping information discussed here will help close some more.

Thanks

@ShawnR - what size slides did you end up ordering? Is your Seig a 6"x21" table?

 

[LenVW]

John,
If it is your intent to start a CNC machine shop you can get a quote from vendors that are active in the machining market.
Haas and Mazak are popular names in CNC workcenters.
I would contact them to get a feel for the investment involved.

You should also research the completion currently around Cambridge.
(ie. Havlick, Wessex, Edgar Tool . . . etc)

Do some homework to see what you are up against. The shops listed have decades of experience in CNC production and already have experienced programming machinists.
I did some job estimating for a CNC shop a couple years ago.

 

[ShawnR]

I can't help you out too much. Not sure if you are asking for CNC advice or the DRO advice? I have gathered that the magnetic scales are better than the glass ones. I did not feel, that for my shop and abilities, it was worth it.
My mill, the Sieg X3 has been converted to CNC and documented online more than once. Some members here have converted their machines too so perhaps some will chime in if you are looking for CNC assistance.

I don't have enough experience to comment on the quill scale addition but I guess that milling is not usually done with the mill extended so it almost becomes a separate function. Nice to have for drilling and I am sure that a 4 scale DRO would do the trick. But again, not enough experience to give a good answer on that. I doubt that you would put a stepper motor on the quill for CNC but when you are the builder, you can do whatever your application dictates.

For me, as much as CNC sounds and looks cool, since I am so new to this world of machining, I figured I should learn how to machine first before learning the CAD/CAM software necessary to program a computer to do what, at this point, I don't know how to. I don't think I have enough years left to learn everything I want to so decided to make chips manually. I am working on my FreeCAD skills to go 2 dimensions with a Plasma Cutter someday.

As for the lathe DRO, looks GUCCI. I have thought about it. Since the compound adjusts for the angle, I don't know how that works but I am sure it does. I think most just put two scales on a lathe. When I sold my last lathe, the Craftex B2227L, iirc, the fella bought it to CNC it. He had a group of talented old retirees that messed around with that stuff in their shops. Talented group. I do now know how he made out with it but that would be kind of fun too. Not enough hours in a day and I am now retired. Still not enough time.

Sorry if I did not help. Good luck! Sounds like you have some priorities to set and decisions to make.

Cheers,
Shawn

 

[ShawnR]

Well, apparently by the time I finished typing this (and making dinner), you have received some great input. I feel that many people talk about CNC as the greatest thing but no one talks about the learning curve in learning CAD first (or I guess you could go GCode. ) I have started several times to learn CAD but usually ended up with a pad and pencil. f I wanted to get the job done. You can buy a CNC machine, and then only worry about learning to draw in CAD or try both. I found it difficult but necessity drives accomplishments and I never needed that end of it (although I am secretly jealous of those that can whip up a nice drawing in CAD, I will admit )

Or disregard if you already know one of the CAD/CAM packages. ...

 

[ThirtyOneDriver]

I can't help you out too much. Not sure if you are asking for CNC advice or the DRO advice? I have gathered that the magnetic scales are better than the glass ones. I did not feel, that for my shop and abilities, it was worth it.
My mill, the Sieg X3 has been converted to CNC and documented online more than once. Some members here have converted their machines too so perhaps some will chime in if you are looking for CNC assistance.

I don't have enough experience to comment on the quill scale addition but I guess that milling is not usually done with the mill extended so it almost becomes a separate function. Nice to have for drilling and I am sure that a 4 scale DRO would do the trick. But again, not enough experience to give a good answer on that. I doubt that you would put a stepper motor on the quill for CNC but when you are the builder, you can do whatever your application dictates.

For me, as much as CNC sounds and looks cool, since I am so new to this world of machining, I figured I should learn how to machine first before learning the CAD/CAM software necessary to program a computer to do what, at this point, I don't know how to. I don't think I have enough years left to learn everything I want to so decided to make chips manually. I am working on my FreeCAD skills to go 2 dimensions with a Plasma Cutter someday.

As for the lathe DRO, looks GUCCI. I have thought about it. Since the compound adjusts for the angle, I don't know how that works but I am sure it does. I think most just put two scales on a lathe. When I sold my last lathe, the Craftex B2227L, iirc, the fella bought it to CNC it. He had a group of talented old retirees that messed around with that stuff in their shops. Talented group. I do now know how he made out with it but that would be kind of fun too. Not enough hours in a day and I am now retired. Still not enough time.

Sorry if I did not help. Good luck! Sounds like you have some priorities to set and decisions to make.

Cheers,
Shawn

I was asking you specifically about the DRO you ordered for your mill - I believe my machine to be a clone of yours (if yours has a 6"x21" table). The post earlier stated that you reordered your DRO yesterday - I was hoping that you remembered the size of scales you ordered so I could take those measurements as a reference so that I knew I wasn't out to lunch when I measure mine (I've actively been preparing to purchase for more than a week).

 

[ShawnR]

@ShawnR - what size slides did you end up ordering? Is your Seig a 6"x21" table?

I ordered a 150 mm and 2- 400 mm scales. My X is 16 " and my Z is 15" and the 400 mm scales were the closest. If you table travels 21" then more than mine

 

[ThirtyOneDriver]

Well, apparently by the time I finished typing this (and making dinner), you have received some great input. I feel that many people talk about CNC as the greatest thing but no one talks about the learning curve in learning CAD first (or I guess you could go GCode. ) I have started several times to learn CAD but usually ended up with a pad and pencil. f I wanted to get the job done. You can buy a CNC machine, and then only worry about learning to draw in CAD or try both. I found it difficult but necessity drives accomplishments and I never needed that end of it (although I am secretly jealous of those that can whip up a nice drawing in CAD, I will admit )

Or disregard if you already know one of the CAD/CAM packages. ...

Yeah - I'm getting along w/ SolidWorks pretty well... I'm young (turning 40 soon) so computer programming similar to g-code is something we did in school... I went back to college a couple of years ago and finished a programming course w/o losing any marks over the semester.

Sorry.. lol

 

[ShawnR]

Yeah - I'm getting along w/ SolidWorks pretty well... I'm young (turning 40 soon) so computer programming similar to g-code is something we did in school... I went back to college a couple of years ago and finished a programming course w/o losing any marks over the semester.

Sorry.. lol

I took computer programming in high school. We used punch cards......

 

[YYCHM]

I took computer programming in high school. We used punch cards......

I used punch cards in University.... They still had one of the few super computers in the basement of the computer science building.

 

[Tomc938]

I used punch cards in University....

589& rocks!

And I used them in high school. High tech Comodore Super PETs in University.

 

[Susquatch]

In my opinion a very wise man said:

For me, as much as CNC sounds and looks cool, since I am so new to this world of machining, I figured I should learn how to machine first before learning the CAD/CAM software necessary to program a computer to do what, at this point, I don't know how to.

 

[Hacker]

I took computer programming in high school. We used punch cards......

LOL I can relate to that.

 

[LenVW]

A couple years ago, I did some job planning for a machine shop that did a lot of CNC on large bed mills and workcenters. I soon discovered that I knew about manual knee milling,
but, very little about CNC programming.
Most of my design work was also on 2D AutoCAD and board drawings. Solid modelling & CNC is interesting but the more I worked with P. Engs and Consultants, many times I discovered that they had never squared up a piece of stock or machine tapped a #10-32 hole. Practical skills will help you through times that you are facing the unknown.

You have to be able to pass on your knowledge so that you can investigate and learn about the next project.

 

[Susquatch]

I was hoping that you remembered the size of scales you ordered so I could take those measurements as a reference so that I knew I wasn't out to lunch when I measure mine (I've actively been preparing to purchase for m

If you get magnetic (which costs more) you can just buy bigger and cut to fit. Easy peasy. Some here have cut glass to fit too but I think most prefer to have the seller provide the right size.

I found that the "DRO Boys" are helpful but pricey.

I have not ordered a DRO kit for my mill yet. Still learning and not wanting to make a mistake. The lathe will get done after the mill is working and maybe after the motor gets swapped out to a 3PH with VFD too.

 

[ThirtyOneDriver]

'Hanging' around here I'm catching on that a manual mill is a requirement for the type of stuff I want to do/size of my shop/my shop capabilities, etc.

A second, small CNC machine will still be something I consider but further in the future and only as a companion to a manual mill... I enjoy being able to be 'hands off' with things and let automation do the monotonous... concurrent activity... while keeping an ear/eye out for things that don't seem "right". Again, I'm trying to look past what I want this week and what I may want next year, the year after... what I'd ideally like in 10 years. I started planning this shop 24 years ago and got to start building it only the last 3 years... the time between was gaining knowledge, experience, tools, etc. with this end goal in mind. I'll post more shop stuff to my intro thread at some point.

The DRO Pros had a bit of a write up on the differences between magnetic slides and glass - I did notice that the magnetic slides are the only ones that they warranty for life(? or whatever the longest term it is they have). Veteran owned business as well... if I order from overseas I get the same thing (mill setup) and then whatever I get for the lathe is essentially free(ish).

 

[LenVW]

I know a former BlackBerry programming guru that is experimenting with solid modelling and SPATIAL sensors for the inspection of machined parts and assemblies.

The sensors would use wireless technology to measure and report real-time dimensions to develop 3D models from the original parts and then the models could be modified and improved with better materials and features.

I will have to check on his progress.

 

[ThirtyOneDriver]

You should have seen the face I made when I read that @LenVW - it was very similar to a racoon seeing something shiny.

 

[LenVW]

'Hanging' around here I'm catching on that a manual mill is a requirement for the type of stuff I want to do/size of my shop/my shop capabilities, etc.

A second, small CNC machine will still be something I consider but further in the future and only as a companion to a manual mill... I enjoy being able to be 'hands off' with things and let automation do the monotonous... concurrent activity... while keeping an ear/eye out for things that don't seem "right". Again, I'm trying to look past what I want this week and what I may want next year, the year after... what I'd ideally like in 10 years. I started planning this shop 24 years ago and got to start building it only the last 3 years... the time between was gaining knowledge, experience, tools, etc. with this end goal in mind. I'll post more shop stuff to my intro thread at some point.

The DRO Pros had a bit of a write up on the differences between magnetic slides and glass - I did notice that the magnetic slides are the only ones that they warranty for life(? or whatever the longest term it is they have). Veteran owned business as well... if I order from overseas I get the same thing (mill setup) and then whatever I get for the lathe is essentially free(ish).

Lots of considerations go into planning. Justify your purchases with scheduled utilization and maybe some payback.
I consider that I am old when I am no longer learning !!