Garage furnace

[historicalarms]

Natural gas on the farm? For serious! Do they call you uncle Jed too?

Pretty much universal in Ab. Gov. initiative started in the mid seventies to install rural gas service to anybody that wanted it and completed mid 80's. Only some very remote areas in the north or south areas that are very sparsely populated don't have it.

I worked construction in the summer months and worked winter months in a local open pit coal mine. When I started in mid 70's there were 7 full time employees in the winter and we served rural customers in a 300 mile radius. then they started to install the gas everywhere and our customer base dwindled to almost nothing. In my ninth year there I was the only outdoor worker left & I was only 3 days a week . That mine went from a major local employer to closed in 10 yrs.....but i didn't miss the ash cleanouts twice a day at home....now I have a wood burner in my living room, used daily from Nov to March and love it, ash and all.

 

[PeterT]

Misery loves company. This sustained -40C froze off some pipes adjacent to wall downstairs over Xmas. First the supply line to faucet, then the drain pipe. The dishwasher drains into common pipe so back to oldy-time manual mode. Then the toilet stopped flushing, same water supply side issue. I chased down some space heaters & installed them into the crawl space. A couple days of that & we are back in business again finally. Thankfully no burst pipes. I'm going to change the filter in the furnace today, that poor thing has been going 24/7 the past 2 weeks. I would hate to see my energy payment this Dec if it wasn't on the equalized/normalized plan. Well it could be worse, I could be kayaking down my street if I lived in a different part of the country this year, or whatever....

So I finally solved some CAD puzzles on my radial & got to the shop to do some milling. The dang contactor switch under the centrifugal switch decided to bug out again, almost to the day of the year. When that happens the motor goes into hyper cog mode, sounds like a Gatling gun. By now I know the ritual, grab the ladder, pull off the motor end bell, fan, centrifugal switch & contactor plate. Cleaned the arcy-smoky points, ready for another 2000 starts I guess. I was convinced my CS was somehow drifting or the swing arm movement was impeded but I can see my witness marks from last time, exact same position. I'll call Modern in the new year & figure out some options. At minimum a new contactor. I heard from Matt at PM last year there were some baddies & these 935 machines all come from the same place. Maybe I got a lemon. Maybe the universe is whispering 3p motor swap & VFD... to be continued

 

[Susquatch]

Misery loves company. This sustained -40C froze off some pipes adjacent to wall downstairs over Xmas. First the supply line to faucet, then the drain pipe. The dishwasher drains into common pipe so back to oldy-time manual mode. Then the toilet stopped flushing, same water supply side issue. I chased down some space heaters & installed them into the crawl space. A couple days of that & we are back in business again finally. Thankfully no burst pipes. I'm going to change the filter in the furnace today, that poor thing has been going 24/7 the past 2 weeks. I would hate to see my energy payment this Dec if it wasn't on the equalized/normalized plan. Well it could be worse, I could be kayaking down my street if I lived in a different part of the country this year, or whatever....

So I finally solved some CAD puzzles on my radial & got to the shop to do some milling. The dang contactor switch under the centrifugal switch decided to bug out again, almost to the day of the year. When that happens the motor goes into hyper cog mode, sounds like a Gatling gun. By now I know the ritual, grab the ladder, pull off the motor end bell, fan, centrifugal switch & contactor plate. Cleaned the arcy-smoky points, ready for another 2000 starts I guess. I was convinced my CS was somehow drifting or the swing arm movement was impeded but I can see my witness marks from last time, exact same position. I'll call Modern in the new year & figure out some options. At minimum a new contactor. I heard from Matt at PM last year there were some baddies & these 935 machines all come from the same place. Maybe I got a lemon. Maybe the universe is whispering 3p motor swap & VFD... to be continued

Been there. Done that. I feel for you......

 

[Janger]

Back to this thread... I was going on vacation and needed a quick solution as again the furnace was acting up. So I bought a Princess Auto Dynaglo 7500W electric heater. It did the job while I was away and kept the garage above freezing. But is it good? No on a couple fronts. The first is does it even work? Sort of. Once I had it all hooked up, hoisted into the ceiling, it wouldn't power up. argh. No lights on the panel, remote or panel wouldn't work, just dead. It was the last one in stock. I thought to jumper the external thermostat terminal and it started right up. I installed an old thermostat I had lying around and so it kind of works - I can live with this for now. I emailed Dynaglo for warranty support. They told me I had to have an electrician explain to them what was wrong and only then would they provide warranty support. Thank you Dyna-glo! The heater cost $180. What would an electrician visit cost? $180 bucks? Or I could take back to princess for a refund/exchange. So I've been living with it. I have a power meter on the thing and it's hitting $10+ a day in this cold weather. So back to the furnace. I'm getting quotes on a heat pump installation to replace it. We will see where that goes. That will give me AC as well as heat and they apparently now can work in very cold weather. I'll let you all know what the sticker shock is.

So given the high electric bill I am expecting I decided to give fixing the furnace another go. I took the board out and discovered cracked solder joints - kinda expected that. I re-soldered that one and resoldered the other ones all feeding a 6 conductor automotive style connector. Cleaned the sparker and the flame sensor again. put it all back together and I'm pleased to say it's running again. Who knows how long this will last. I need to get this solved once and for all and end this thread! Stop being cheap as my wife would say...

 

[PeterT]

Have you ruled out radiant heat furnace? Mine has been bulletproof for many years. Fits along the corner of wall/ceiling. Needs 110v for burner fan & NG connection, which you probably have.

 

[deleted_user]

Back to this thread... I was going on vacation and needed a quick solution as again the furnace was acting up. So I bought a Princess Auto Dynaglo 7500W electric heater. It did the job while I was away and kept the garage above freezing. But is it good? No on a couple fronts. The first is does it even work? Sort of. Once I had it all hooked up, hoisted into the ceiling, it wouldn't power up. argh. No lights on the panel, remote or panel wouldn't work, just dead. It was the last one in stock. I thought to jumper the external thermostat terminal and it started right up. I installed an old thermostat I had lying around and so it kind of works - I can live with this for now. I emailed Dynaglo for warranty support. They told me I had to have an electrician explain to them what was wrong and only then would they provide warranty support. Thank you Dyna-glo! The heater cost $180. What would an electrician visit cost? $180 bucks? Or I could take back to princess for a refund/exchange. So I've been living with it. I have a power meter on the thing and it's hitting $10+ a day in this cold weather. So back to the furnace. I'm getting quotes on a heat pump installation to replace it. We will see where that goes. That will give me AC as well as heat and they apparently now can work in very cold weather. I'll let you all know what the sticker shock is.

So given the high electric bill I am expecting I decided to give fixing the furnace another go. I took the board out and discovered cracked solder joints - kinda expected that. I re-soldered that one and resoldered the other ones all feeding a 6 conductor automotive style connector. Cleaned the sparker and the flame sensor again. put it all back together and I'm pleased to say it's running again. Who knows how long this will last. I need to get this solved once and for all and end this thread! Stop being cheap as my wife would say...

These decisions should not be made on purchase price.

You need to consider the total cost of ownership and the efficiency with which the products heat.

I'd only recommend this type of product in your situation.
2 stage Radiant tube gas fired heater

IIRC these are about 45,000 BTU and come with between 10 to 30 feet tube options,

They heat the mass of your equipment, and your bones internally. You're more comfortable while the air temp can be kept lower about 60F ergo lower bills

Local calgary distributor

I'm pretty sure that in AB owners can perform their own installations on gas furnaces etc. Your unit heater has existing gas line and vent that may be reused. Basically you only need to mount the tube to the ceiling, make gas and vent connections eh voila, heat

 

[deleted_user]

These decisions should not be made on purchase price.

You need to consider the total cost of ownership and the efficiency with which the products heat.

I'd only recommend this in your situation

2 stage Radiant tube gas fired heater

IIRC these are about 45,000 BTU and come with between 10 to 30 feet tube options,

They heat the mass of your equipment, and your bones internally. You're more comfortable while the air temp can be kept lower about 60F ergo lower bills

Back to this thread... I was going on vacation and needed a quick solution as again the furnace was acting up. So I bought a Princess Auto Dynaglo 7500W electric heater. It did the job while I was away and kept the garage above freezing. But is it good? No on a couple fronts. The first is does it even work? Sort of. Once I had it all hooked up, hoisted into the ceiling, it wouldn't power up. argh. No lights on the panel, remote or panel wouldn't work, just dead. It was the last one in stock. I thought to jumper the external thermostat terminal and it started right up. I installed an old thermostat I had lying around and so it kind of works - I can live with this for now. I emailed Dynaglo for warranty support. They told me I had to have an electrician explain to them what was wrong and only then would they provide warranty support. Thank you Dyna-glo! The heater cost $180. What would an electrician visit cost? $180 bucks? Or I could take back to princess for a refund/exchange. So I've been living with it. I have a power meter on the thing and it's hitting $10+ a day in this cold weather. So back to the furnace. I'm getting quotes on a heat pump installation to replace it. We will see where that goes. That will give me AC as well as heat and they apparently now can work in very cold weather. I'll let you all know what the sticker shock is.

So given the high electric bill I am expecting I decided to give fixing the furnace another go. I took the board out and discovered cracked solder joints - kinda expected that. I re-soldered that one and resoldered the other ones all feeding a 6 conductor automotive style connector. Cleaned the sparker and the flame sensor again. put it all back together and I'm pleased to say it's running again. Who knows how long this will last. I need to get this solved once and for all and end this thread! Stop being cheap as my wife would say...

dude, no way invest in a heat pump given the operating conditions in Alberta. Dont, just dont.

Unless you plan to use a ground source buried deep. Better yet, if you have an old disused oil well on your property... I wanted to open commercial greenhouse operation in AB on site of old oil wells that had high geothermal potential but we could never agree on site remediation issues necessary prior to our assuming liability for property

 

[PeterT]

I'd only recommend this type of product in your situation.
2 stage Radiant tube gas fired heater
IIRC these are about 45,000 BTU and come with between 10 to 30 feet tube options,

Pretty much my exact unit circa +20 years ago. @Janger I can snap some pics if you want to see typical install

 

[Janger]

Radiant heat? Ok I'm reading the links thanks John and Peter. @PeterT do you leave yours on the same temperature all the time?

 

[Janger]

Pretty much my exact unit circa +20 years ago. @Janger I can snap some pics if you want to see typical install

Love to see a few pictures. Side vent or vertical?

 

[deleted_user]

Love to see a few pictures. Side vent or vertical?

These units can be sidewall vented and that may be the easiest option in many cases, similar to how gas fireplaces vent, HOWEVER you have vertical B venting in place already. If the length of vent is less than 20' tall you can reuse that vent and save costs.

I dont know your shop layout, but you may want to consider a U-bend and use longer pipe length. The two tubes radiant wider area as well.

You can leave the temp set to low 50F and protect your shop equipment and only raise it when in use to 60F and likely be very comfy

 

[Darren]

our shop at work has radiant tube heaters. They are great. Very fast heat recovery, everything is warm. If you can't have infloor, radiant tubes are the next best thing in my opinion.

 

[Janger]

These units can be sidewall vented and that may be the easiest option in many cases, similar to how gas fireplaces vent, HOWEVER you have vertical B venting in place already. If the length of vent is less than 20' tall you can reuse that vent and save costs.

I dont know your shop layout, but you may want to consider a U-bend and use longer pipe length. The two tubes radiant wider area as well.

You can leave the temp set to low 50F and protect your shop equipment and only raise it when in use to 60F and likely be very comfy

It's a double garage 21'x23'. 10' ceiling.

 

[deleted_user]

It's a double garage 21'x23'. 10' ceiling.

Is the whole garage used for shop space, or combined vehicle and shop use?

 

[Janger]

It's all shop.

 

[wharris1]

It's a double garage 21'x23'. 10' ceiling.

Just so you know the radiant heater is very nice but one thing to note with a 10 foot ceiling you may find it a little warm on the head if you mount it near a standing work area
if it helps you can see what i mean if you you happen to live nearby (langdon)

 

[Susquatch]

I have two radiant tube heaters in my 40 x 80 barn shop. I'll take some photos tomorrow for you @Janger. They have a minimum temp setting of around 55F IIRC. But that was easy to fix. I just tipped the whole thermostat to bias them in the cold direction. I maintain the barn at about 40F (actual air temp) to stop water from freezing. When I am working out there, I turn them up to 60 (actual air temp). It doesn't take more than 15 minutes to warm up. They exhaust right out the wall.

I have a 20 ft ceiling in there. I'm not sure how well they would work at a lower height.

 

[deleted_user]

It's all shop.

I'd install it kitty corner across the shop, single tube.

The beauty is that it radiates across a wide area, and then warms the floor and equipment that then re-radiates the heat in a far less intense manner.

As @wharris1 says you'd want to avoid locating the length of radiant tube right over the space where you work most. Also I recommended the two stage heater just to address this issue.

NOTE: the heater I specified in designed specifically for residential garages at typical heights between 8 - 10 feet

You also need a radiant heating thermostat.

 

[deleted_user]

I'd install it kitty corner across the shop, single tube.

The beauty is that it radiates across a wide area, and then warms the floor and equipment that then re-radiates the heat in a far less intense manner.

As @wharris1 says you'd want to avoid locating the length of radiant tube right over the space where you work most. Also I recommended the two stage heater just to address this issue.

NOTE: the heater I specified in designed specifically for residential garages at typical heights between 8 - 10 feet

You also need a radiant heating thermostat.

I have been specifying HVAC equipment for decades and have experienced all of these types of products in numerous installations across the residential, commercial and industrial sectors

 

[kevin.decelles]

I’m also considering alternatives to electric for my wood shop (14x24x10ft ceil). My heating costs are between 3 and 6 bucks per day, using a 5400w heater. It’s ok, but natural gas or propane is what I’m looking at. Looked at heat pumps but we’re just too cold to pull that off . I’ll look at radiant as well