• Scam Alert. Members are reminded to NOT send money to buy anything. Don't buy things remote and have it shipped - go get it yourself, pay in person, and take your equipment with you. Scammers have burned people on this forum. Urgency, secrecy, excuses, selling for friend, newish members, FUD, are RED FLAGS. A video conference call is not adequate assurance. Face to face interactions are required. Please report suspicions to the forum admins. Stay Safe - anyone can get scammed.

First Milling Machine, Windsor ON, $2200

The problem is, within the GTA the prices are always high, often stupidly high. When ads pop up outside of GTA dealers in Cambridge, Hamilton, and surrounding cities swoop in on the deals then sell them in GTA for triple the cost.

I barely look at Toronto area ads, only ontario as a whole

It just sucks more because I let Bob know immediately after the ad was posted that we wanted it. We've been seriously looking for a 9x42 or thereabouts knee mill for over a year

A couple of years ago I found an awesome deal on a knee mill with loads of accessories included for just $1500 listed on Kijiji. It was in Mississauga. I was the first to reply (I'm an insomniac and replied about 4AM immediately after it was posted) I could have had it but passed because I had no idea how to get such a heavy machine home and into my garage. Still kicking myself over that!

Dealers definitely add to the challenge and are of course better equipped to move heavy machines quick.
 
A shop I worked at once upon a time in Newmarket closed it's doors last year and had an auction. They had the same First mills (only newer) with Heidenhain dro's and imperial r8 collet sets go for around $1000.00 each. To me they seem to come up fairly regularly and 575v are always lower priced. This one looks to have been painted, but the older ones were green. Patience will bring success!
Please let us know when you see one!!! ;)
 
A couple of years ago I found an awesome deal on a knee mill with loads of accessories included for just $1500 listed on Kijiji. It was in Mississauga. I was the first to reply (I'm an insomniac and replied about 4AM immediately after it was posted) I could have had it but passed because I had no idea how to get such a heavy machine home and into my garage. Still kicking myself over that!

Dealers definitely add to the challenge and are of course better equipped to move heavy machines quick.

This is almost always the case. A good deal is posted. I see it and contact the seller and say "hey I am interested, but I need to first see about arranging transport. Please note, I am very very interested and will get back to you"

Meanwhile dealer contacts them and says Hey can I come look at it today? They show up wish cash, trailer, palleting tools, and tow motor.

Boom, equipment gone.

This has happened to me so many times I can't count. Despite my brother having favoured tow company on speed dial and usually being able to say we can take it away the next weekend.
 
I bought 2 mills last year. My story is short and sweet.

I had been looking for a decent mill for several years. Your version and that of others is all too familiar to me.

Then I found this forum, joined, and learned some simple rules from the forum members.

1. Figure out what you want, what you are willing to accept, and what repairs you can manage.
2. Learn as much as you can about what you are after.
3. Wait for it to show up on eBay, Kijiji or wherever.
4. Call, get an address, pack cash, and hit the road with a trailer in tow.
5. Assess the machine and decide if you want it and what you are willing to pay given that it will almost always have issues that you were not told about, and negotiate a deal. Be prepared to walk away.
6. If you strike a deal, load er up and leave before someone else shows up willing to pay more.

Another related rule I learned is that you can always find great machines if you are willing to pay more than what they are worth. These machines will sit and sit and sit until the seller loses patience or a buyer is willing to pay the price.

I think many people make the mistake of thinking that a deal follows this last rule too. They don't. Speed is required, or the machine will be gone.

It is also true that some sellers will hold the machine if you pay up front, but many sellers want it gone yesterday.

Bottom line, if you wait, it will almost always be gone before you get there.
 
To add to the above: buy the machine you will be happy to make chips with. And hold out for that machine - the will always be another deal down the road.

A quick anecdote: I found a European Mill from just after WW2, one owner, fully tooled, for a song. He wanted to use it for another year or more. I was patient, calling him only once every 3 months. After 2 years of waiting, I called him and he said (annoyed) "I sold it to you the day after you last called" My guess is that he was telling people it was reserved for "john" and so "john" showed up and bought it out from under me...

I wish I had someone to tell me that another deal would come along. It did, and another after that, both even better.
 
The best strategy I've found to securing a deal is to go right away. Keeping an eye on the used market and knowing the buy/sell price for a lot of things will tell you when something is a great deal, and that if you make contact with the seller to let them know you are on the way. Now, that's not always possible, but from my experience on the selling side, you can sort out the flakers, and those serious pretty quickly. And there are a LOT of flakers. One of the reasons I HATE selling stuff. Facebook market place has made it much better, but kijiji is terrible for that. Too much anonymity. With facebook people are a bit hesitant to be idiots and waste your time when their name and entire breakfast history and dog pictures are on the line lol. Still doesn't stop some though. Be assertive and if it's a good deal, take a risk. Commit to it, send a deposit if needed and sort the details out afterwards. Fortune favours the brave.

With a mill like that he probably had at least 20 or more emails about it. It's not always about first come first served, and sometimes tough to keep track of, although I tend to lean that way (even being burned by no shows before), sometimes it's the path of least resistance that gets the gold. If a guy says he can come right away with cash and a trailer he goes first in line. There's always going to be 5 guys that will show up Saturday morning, and maybe 1 might actually show. Sometimes you risk losing a serious buyer that was 2nd in line for a flaker that might show up a week later and try to haggle you down a few hundred bucks. It's tough as a seller to read minds and intent through emails. A bird in hand....

While that mill was a decent deal, I'll still think you can find a better value (maybe not as cheap) for something with a DRO, powerfeed and some tooling if you are patient and are able to pounce. Use this time to find a source for a trailer to borrow/rent on short notice. Come up with a moving strategy, and maybe pick up an engine hoist, cribbing, rollers, etc so that when the time comes you can say "I'll be there in 2 hours, I'm leaving right now". I can almost guarantee success that way.

Your needs might be different but I consider a DRO and powerfeed essential on a knee mill. I wouldn't even consider buying one without those unless it was much cheaper than that one. As I'd rather not go through the time and expense of installing them. Some enjoy cranking handles and counting revolutions. I don't, I enjoy making stuff the quickest most efficient way possible.
 
To add to the above: buy the machine you will be happy to make chips with. And hold out for that machine - the will always be another deal down the road.

A quick anecdote: I found a European Mill from just after WW2, one owner, fully tooled, for a song. He wanted to use it for another year or more. I was patient, calling him only once every 3 months. After 2 years of waiting, I called him and he said (annoyed) "I sold it to you the day after you last called" My guess is that he was telling people it was reserved for "john" and so "john" showed up and bought it out from under me...

I wish I had someone to tell me that another deal would come along. It did, and another after that, both even better.

deposit into trust account, draw up simple option to purchase contract. IF the perfect item comes along and the owner just can't let go yet
 
The best strategy I've found to securing a deal is to go right away. Keeping an eye on the used market and knowing the buy/sell price for a lot of things will tell you when something is a great deal, and that if you make contact with the seller to let them know you are on the way. Now, that's not always possible, but from my experience on the selling side, you can sort out the flakers, and those serious pretty quickly. And there are a LOT of flakers. One of the reasons I HATE selling stuff. Facebook market place has made it much better, but kijiji is terrible for that. Too much anonymity. With facebook people are a bit hesitant to be idiots and waste your time when their name and entire breakfast history and dog pictures are on the line lol. Still doesn't stop some though. Be assertive and if it's a good deal, take a risk. Commit to it, send a deposit if needed and sort the details out afterwards. Fortune favours the brave.

With a mill like that he probably had at least 20 or more emails about it. It's not always about first come first served, and sometimes tough to keep track of, although I tend to lean that way (even being burned by no shows before), sometimes it's the path of least resistance that gets the gold. If a guy says he can come right away with cash and a trailer he goes first in line. There's always going to be 5 guys that will show up Saturday morning, and maybe 1 might actually show. Sometimes you risk losing a serious buyer that was 2nd in line for a flaker that might show up a week later and try to haggle you down a few hundred bucks. It's tough as a seller to read minds and intent through emails. A bird in hand....

While that mill was a decent deal, I'll still think you can find a better value (maybe not as cheap) for something with a DRO, powerfeed and some tooling if you are patient and are able to pounce. Use this time to find a source for a trailer to borrow/rent on short notice. Come up with a moving strategy, and maybe pick up an engine hoist, cribbing, rollers, etc so that when the time comes you can say "I'll be there in 2 hours, I'm leaving right now". I can almost guarantee success that way.

Your needs might be different but I consider a DRO and powerfeed essential on a knee mill. I wouldn't even consider buying one without those unless it was much cheaper than that one. As I'd rather not go through the time and expense of installing them. Some enjoy cranking handles and counting revolutions. I don't, I enjoy making stuff the quickest most efficient way possible.
I offered to pay immediately, sight unseen, just because I could not attend immediately.

But everyone is correct when contacting the seller and saying I want to come right now, bring cash. Inspect make your offer while counting out the high denomination bills. Thrust them at person and say "do we have a deal"

They usually reach for the money. If they take it or say yes, you have a deal in legal terms. Then you can say, sorry but I can't remove it until... whenever you can remove it.

This was a special case where distance, and weather combined to allow a local to beat me out. That's cool though.
 
deposit into trust account, draw up simple option to purchase contract. IF the perfect item comes along and the owner just can't let go yet
He was very timid and touchy. we had not even met in person, and I never saw the mill. I learned about it through a mutual acquintance. That's how the other guy got to impersonate me.

He would never had gone for a purchase agreement. I even offered 1/2 his ask as a downpayment, and he said no. old school.
 
He was very timid and touchy. we had not even met in person, and I never saw the mill. I learned about it through a mutual acquintance. That's how the other guy got to impersonate me.

He would never had gone for a purchase agreement. I even offered 1/2 his ask as a downpayment, and he said no. old school.
yep this guy too wouldnt take my money... I hate old school...
 
Just saw this thread. Add me to the list of people drooling over that mill, if it was in my back yard I'd have been trying hard to get it rather then thinking about how I could ship it here. I had to think through whether it was worth the risk to send $ sight unseen and then try and hire a trucking outfit to go pick it up and bring it 2000 km to the local depot in one piece where I could hire a boom truck to bring it the last 20 km to my doorstep.

In the end I'm glad I didn't wind up going head to head with another forum member, too bad someone else got it.

I envy you guys up there in mill paradise where there's a great deal on every street corner....out here in NS that was probably a $5000 machine.

Next time.....there's always time......

D:cool:
 
Just saw this thread. Add me to the list of people drooling over that mill, if it was in my back yard I'd have been trying hard to get it rather then thinking about how I could ship it here. I had to think through whether it was worth the risk to send $ sight unseen and then try and hire a trucking outfit to go pick it up and bring it 2000 km to the local depot in one piece where I could hire a boom truck to bring it the last 20 km to my doorstep.

In the end I'm glad I didn't wind up going head to head with another forum member, too bad someone else got it.

I envy you guys up there in mill paradise where there's a great deal on every street corner....out here in NS that was probably a $5000 machine.

Next time.....there's always time......

D:cool:
I'm starting to think I need to buy a pick up trailer and trailer and go into the machine tool biz :cool:
 
I'm starting to think I need to buy a pick up trailer and trailer and go into the machine tool biz :cool:

I ran into one of these dealers once. He had just beat me to some machines by mere minutes. He had a beat up old Hiab truck and clearly a lot of experience moving heavy stuff. Yoda's protege! In contrast I had no truck, no experience, and no Yoda training. Very discouraging!
 
Update on the Windsor-London snow storm. Snow has stopped here. Looks like 6-8 inches on average. Some big drifts where the wind got at it.

Wife and I dug out the car and truck yesterday but didn't go anywhere.

Actually quite pretty right now...

20220204_081211.jpg
 
Back
Top