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Anyone own a GH1440W lathe from Modern Tools or a PM1440HD from Precision Matthews?

PeterT

Ultra Member
Premium Member
#22
I haven't worried about inrush current on my mill as it is running on a VFD and ramps the motor current up over a set time (3 seconds is what I have mine set at). So there is much less of a spike at start up. Also the mill never has to start with a large mass in the chuck should make this less of an issue with a mill.
Those are good points. I was just using my mill motor as an example because that's where my underrated wire/breaker issue reared its head. Curious, almost seems like single phase 240v mill motors draw more current than lathe motors for the same wattage, or maybe that's just limited or selective data on my part.
 

Dabbler

Well-Known Member
#23
Over the last 25 years at this location, I've run the gammut of the electrical specs. My lathe and old mill were on 30 A twist lock connectors, my welder is 50A stove type, my bandsaw is 15A 220V, and I also have a plug with 20A 220V that isn't used any more.

It gets expensive if you don't plan ahead!
 
#24
The lathe I had delivered (14x40 but the step down from John's) from Modern in March came exactly as Peter described, cord with no plug end. I had 220v 15amp plugs on both sides of the shop, so wired it for that plug. It has a 3hp motor, no issues thus far. My wire is in-wall, as is the panel (flush mount) so i'm guessing at the wire gauge, suspect I just have 12 gauge.

I should probably run some 10g and put the 20amp breaker in........... someday
Im not really convinced 10 gauge wire is necessary. The schematic shows the main circuits coming into the machine are 2.5 sq/mm which is equivalent to AWG #12 so 10 may be overkill. I only went with 10 because i was running wire for new wall plugs anyway. Screenshot_20190224-031755.png
 
#25
Those are good points. I was just using my mill motor as an example because that's where my underrated wire/breaker issue reared its head. Curious, almost seems like single phase 240v mill motors draw more current than lathe motors for the same wattage, or maybe that's just limited or selective data on my part.
There are no motor specs in any of the manuals I have. I downloaded the Jet and the Precision Matthews as well as the one from Modern. Maybe they just install what ever 3hp motors are available at time of manufacturing. I'll get pics of the motor tag when it arrives.
 

kevin.decelles

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
#26
Modern swapped out the motor on my lathe due to some failures they had on the stock motor in that batch. Rather than do them piece meal on service calls I guess they got preemptive

The motor they did use (see picture ) is a bit of an odd ball and has a metric bore (28mm)

It works though. And you are correct , the cord wiring was 12 gauge. If I were to wire w/conduit right now I'd put in 10g as well




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#27
Well Modern delivered the new lathe on Wednesday afternoon. I have a couple of days off work to play with my new toy. Having it put on the floor of my garage with a crane made the installation painless. It came with levelling screws and steel pads and I added hockey pucks to them for vibration damping. My floor is so far from level that I had to use a puck and a half on the headstock end to get it level. Lots of work to do cleaning all the packing grease off. When I removed the tailstock to clean it I found what looks to be signs of sraping of the way surfaces. I wonder if it is just decorative or if someone actually hand sraped it. It came with a quick change tool post but it is a button style instead of the wedge style I had on my old lathe. I don't know if it will be a nice as my old one but I'll try it for a while. The chucks look pretty decent. I checked the runout on the 3 jaw and it's right at .001" with a 1/2" drill rod in it, better than I expected. The 4 jaw looks like it has a lot of grinding debris in it so I plan to disassemble both chucks for a thorough cleaning and lubing.

Joe, the delivery guy is a skilled hand with the crane and set it down gently far enough inside the garage to get the door closed. I had to move it about 15 feet and used 4 pieces of 1.375" bar stock as rollers. I went slowly and it took a couple of hours to get it to it's final resting place. I put it about 8 inches from the wall so it will need to be moved out if i need to get to any electrical stuff on the back. I just don't have enough room to allow walk around space behind it. Here are some pictures.
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#28
Looks exciting and it sounds like you will be pleased with quality, nice to hear.

The lathe looks like it's a good colour match to your band saw. How fashionable! Lol!
 

kevin.decelles

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
#30
Great pics! Made me remember my delivery day from modern, very professional driver and very sweet when they put it right in the shop!


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PeterT

Ultra Member
Premium Member
#31
Awesome! I agree, the tail stock looks like it has seen some legitimate scraping from the pic as opposed to oil frosting. If that's the case hopefully same for carriage saddle underside.
- So is there an exposed motor plate to show amp duty?
- On your final roll back to the wall, do you wedge up the machine to get the roller bars out the way (as shown) re position new bars 90-deg in order to roll machine the other way?
 

Attachments

#32
Thanks guys. The motor tag shows only the generic info pretty much the same as Kevin's. I forgot to take current measurements before putting it against the wall so I'll have to make up a circuit splitter so I can measure it at the plug end. You're right Peter, I moved it the lenght of the garage by placing the rollers as shown in the picture and turned the rollers 90 degrees to roll it to the wall. It's amazing how easily it rolls. Any slope in the floor will allow gravity to move it so wedges must be used to prevent it from rolling when you don't want it to. Each time I re-positioned the rollers I used pieces of plywood under the outside corner jacking screws to raise the machine. When backing the last jacking screw off to put it back on the rollers it would start rolling on it's own where the floor had any little slope. Scared the crap out of me the first time it happened. Joe and I discussed how I was going to move it and he offered to stay and help but he still had a 4 hour drive ahead of him so I told him I would cautiously do it on my own. He told me a story of a customer who tried to balance a 20 ton press break on 2 toe jacks and tipped it over on its front while moving it. The machine was destroyed and the floor of the shop was badly damaged. They were very lucky no one got hurt or killed. I kept that in mind the whole time to keep me from getting impatient. I was especially cautious when the rollers were in line with the lenght of the machine to back it up to the wall, keeping the 2 rollers on each end at least a foot apart and keeping a piece of wood under the leading edge of the machine on both ends so if it did start to tip it couldn't tip far before touching something solid and stopping. I raised and lowered it with the jacking screws about 20 times to move it 5 feet in that direction. Even though it wasn't really hard work my knees and back are sore from kneeling to standing so many times. I have to say those little 12mm jacking screws and the steel discs they sit on are very tough material. All that jacking and lowering didn't leave a mark on them and the threads in the machine base are about .75" deep so they also handled it with no complaint.

The machine sits lower than my old one did on it's welded steel base frame and I'm considering raising it a couple of inches. I'm also planning to build some moving skates. It's only a matter of time until it has to be moved away from the wall and I want to be prepared.

20190227_151743.jpg
 

PeterT

Ultra Member
Premium Member
#33
It looks great in your shop. Be interested to hear your comments & tweaks as you get familiar with the machine.

I notice Modern don't use what I think are the dedicated lifting holes with crossbar inserted in. Seem to recall a conversation with them in the past that they are actually more trouble in practical use because they don't match the CofG very well (vertically or horizontally). So you have to futz around or chain it a certain way... which I thought was the whole point of locating them in specific spots.

Well there are no pics of the lathe down the end of the block or in your neighbors kitchen so another successful delivery & install mission accomplished!
 

Attachments

#34
Joe used an interesting purpose built tool for lifting lathes. It has 2 stout metal brackets that are joined together with a pivot pin in the center. Each of the brackets has a machined L shaped part at its bottom that fits against the inside and bottom edges of the ways. There is an eyelet at the top of each bracket that is used to lift with a common chain or cable so they get pulled toward each other when upward force is applied. As the top pieces are pulled together the pivot forces the bottom of the 2 brackets apart so they are pushed tightly outward under the inside of the ways. Joe said by lifting from one central position, once the balance point is determined, there is no chance of anything slipping ďuring the lift. My lathe just hung perfectly level with no drama or swaying. You could have balanced an open beer on the machine during the lift and not spilled a drop. Since to tool does not touch any painted parts there is no damage to the machine. The brackets lift on a section about a foot long on each way so the load is spread over a large area. That is how they lift even the heaviest lathes. Joe said mine is a baby lathe compared to most he usually moves. Smaller lathes where the way bed is too narrow can't be lifted this way as the tool won't fit between the ways.
The tool made me nervous but those guys at Modern are pro's and know what they're doing. 20190227_135353.jpg
 
#35
That is how I lift my Lath as well, I move the saddle, tail stock as far right as it will go, this makes the right end heavier than the headstock end when lifting from the first pocket between the bed-ways. then I use a small chain from the last bed pocket to the main lift chain as a "steadier" to prevent any over-centering in any direction when in the air. I leave the "steadier" chain a few links slacker than the lift chain so that the headstock end is off the ground a couple inches before the right end starts to lift. You can safely lift & move a 1440 sized lathe with an inexpensive Hyd. engine hoist.
 

RobinHood

Active Member
Premium Member
#36
I moved it the lenght of the garage by placing the rollers as shown in the picture and turned the rollers 90 degrees to roll it to the wall. It's amazing how easily it rolls.
Congrats on your new lathe, looks very good.

Good job in moving it into position safely. As you discovered, keeping things balanced and under control at all times is absolutely paramount. Turning the rollers 90* under the lathe is usually not necessary as it will slide laterally on the rollers themselves since you have metal - metal contact. Use a pry bar to push or a come-along to pull the machine on the rollers sideways. It keeps everything nice and stable and is no more risky than moving it longitudinally on the rollers.

Here are some ways that I place the rollers when I move machines:
FE64DABA-21A2-4727-93D7-FF295AFA3A57.jpeg
Fig1 is the most common placement. The item moves longitudinally. If you have 4 rollers, then you place two under initially by jacking the machine up. As you roll ahead, the other two rollers are placed in sequence so the machine rolls on top of them and the original two become free to be placed ahead of the second pair, and so on. Machine can be moved quickly.

Fig 2 is the placement if you want to move the machine around an obstacle or change the alignment of the center line wrt a crane, or doorway, for example.

Place the rollers as in Fig 3 if you need to turn the machine around a corner or need to swap ends. The steeper the angle between the rollers, the tighter the turn.

Fig 4 shows what i’ve alluded to above; it allows you to move the machine laterally on its rollers, ie, move it against a wall, for example.

Having a set of machinery skates helps a lot as well.
 
#37
I spent today puttering on the new lathe. I don't plan to ever use flood coolant so I stripped the plumbing and pump out of the base to make room for storage.

20190301_121830.jpg

20190301_121814.jpg

20190301_170700.jpg

The bracket for the lamp and coolant nozzle looked like it was installed by a blind person. The mounting holes were drilled in the wrong locations and the whole thing was an eyesore and in the way if using the taper attachment. I reloacted the lamp and got rid of the bracket to clean things up. I'll have to just put screws in the extra holes where the bracket was. The cables for the dro scales were a mess also so I'm working on a solution to clean that up too. I'll post some pics of the finished product later.

I disassembled both chucks and cleaned out all the grit and lubed them up with machine oil. These are both very nicely made chucks and operate realy smoothly once cleaned

20190301_075820.jpg

20190301_075834.jpg

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20190301_085556.jpg

I discovered today that the spindle wouldn't run in reverse. It turned out that the screws holding the switch had come loose so it was an easy fix. The mounting post for the qctp was a joke with a thin round disc slid into the compound. I made the first chips by installing the 4 way tool post turning the shinny little disc off and then welded the qctp post to the base from the 4 way. It turned out well. Pics later.
 

Janger

(John)
Administrator
Premium Member
#38
It looks great in your shop. Be interested to hear your comments & tweaks as you get familiar with the machine.

I notice Modern don't use what I think are the dedicated lifting holes with crossbar inserted in. Seem to recall a conversation with them in the past that they are actually more trouble in practical use because they don't match the CofG very well (vertically or horizontally). So you have to futz around or chain it a certain way... which I thought was the whole point of locating them in specific spots.

Well there are no pics of the lathe down the end of the block or in your neighbors kitchen so another successful delivery & install mission accomplished!
Here is the cemetery crane crew lifting my 14x40 lathe. We used the lift holes and some 1" rebar. Note the snarl of chains and straps and crap. John C. made sure it was going to work. Glad it went ok. This went way better than when Alex and I and some guys moved my Mill. We nearly tipped it over down the hill into the alley. OMG. That bracket thing modern uses looks much better.

IMG_0640.JPG
 

DPittman

Active Member
#39
The bracket for the lamp and coolant nozzle looked like it was installed by a blind person. The mounting holes were drilled in the wrong
I'm laughing, not at you or your frustration, but at the absurdity that that sort of craftsmanship could happen when the manufacturer could have easily done a decent and quality job. They seem to figure out how to cut costs that won't be quickly noticed to the new purchaser. Damn frustrating. Maybe the cost saving was because they did in fact hire a blind person to do that job in the factory! If that's the case it's not so bad!
Hope any more quality control issues you discover are also fairly minor and easily fixed. It looks overall like its a good machine tho huh?
 

PeterT

Ultra Member
Premium Member
#40
John, on the chuck inspect & rebuild, did you choose machine oil over grease for a specific reason? The bigger chucks I've taken apart have always been greased. I've never opened my Bison or purchased their grease. I've heard (aside from marketing & magical special properties I'm sure) has higher viscosity than regular grease. Then you hear all sorts of conflicting opinions on lubrication recommending high viscosity oil. On a small chuck I rebuilt it didn't look like grease so I wasn't sure if they forgot it or used oil, so I used small amount of high viscosity way oil. The action was nice & smooth & gripping was fine, but after some run time I noticed oil seepage through the tightening screws threaded annulus so I guess it was slowly flowing outward by centrifugal force. I was surprised because there was very little oil in there.

On my import (Gator) chucks, they were actually quite clean but on the 4-jaw where one jaw action seemed stiffer & kind of intermittent. I found edges of the pinions that were not de-burred, just machined & left that way. So it had these rough hangnail type bits that eventually come off. The slot width vs jaw grinding fit was actually quite nice, but again a razor sharp corner edge. They apparently don't know what deburring is or this is one of the corner cuts for cost. So I lightly stoned or Dremel chamfered all the edges nice & uniform, cleaned & re-lubed. The action was then completely smooth. There are lots of YouTube vids on this subject +/- lots of opinions, but 2 on Stefen Gotteswinters channel - chinese 3 jaw chuck & chinese 5c collet chuck teardown.