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What kind of welding machines you guys have ? Anyone got a Miller multimatic 220?

StevSmar

(Steven)
Premium Member
Just don't lose any sleep over it.
Too late, I’m going to be thinking about this forever now…
I annotated a work order that came in with "Cannot be made as drawn, with our current equipment!", and the guy came storming in to the shop and lost his mind on me, but the best he could say to me was "You're the f***ing Expert…
I tell people “I know in theory what to do” and (referring to one of the electricians I work with) “he knows in practise what to do” and “between the two of us we’ll probably get it right, but we may not”…

 

Downwindtracker2

Well-Known Member
Did you try Italian TIG welder? Trevj, that might even work. I'm sure it was the YouTube algorithm that kicked it up.

When I was working I would go over to the Miller welder, check to make sure it was wired reverse polarity, crank the knob to 120 or so and flick the switch.Almost only used LA 1/8" 7018. Now I have to get the manual out because I have forgotten the programing numbers for the start function. It varies with application and rod,I have to program the arc on my welder.
 

trevj

Ultra Member
Did you try Italian TIG welder? Trevj, that might even work. I'm sure it was the YouTube algorithm that kicked it up.

When I was working I would go over to the Miller welder, check to make sure it was wired reverse polarity, crank the knob to 120 or so and flick the switch.Almost only used LA 1/8" 7018. Now I have to get the manual out because I have forgotten the programing numbers for the start function. It varies with application and rod,I have to program the arc on my welder.
I used a couple variations of "Italian Inverter Welder" and did not get anything that looked or sounded like what you described. Italian vs. chinese welder teardown, inverter welder teardown comparison, and a bunch similar.

Not your fault. Google/YouTube is pretty messed up! Every time I go on there without signing in they try to force-feed me a bunch of Mr Beast, and the like, as if I really fu**ing cared, rather than what I actually searched for.
 
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Susquatch

Ultra Member
Administrator
Moderator
Premium Member
My total guess is that to generate the arc, you need to ionize the electrons to make them flow free from the atom, and where that happens has the most heat?

I’m intrigued too.

It could be the Peltier Effect?
https://amadaweldtech.com/wp-conten...rity-on-the-Resistance-Welding-ProcessWeb.pdf

Part of my problem is that I do know a fair bit about spot welding. I even hold a few patents. Basically, I know enough to know how little I really know.

But Spot welding is totally a resistance welding process. Basically, you pump enough current through the two layers that the power generated by their internal resistance melts and fuses the two layers together. There is no arc or plasma involved.

I don't know enough about the other kinds of welding to have any slightest idea about how the process works much less how heat manages to flow with or against the flow of electrons. But I would like to.

I do know that those above who describe the current as one electron being added in at one end for every one that pops out the other end are mostly correct. They all sort of shuffle over so to speak like a big crowd of people moving through a wide corridor - some entering, and some leaving. Interestingly though, the ones at the outside on the surface of the conductor move faster than the ones inside - quite the opposite of the way liquids flow in pipes.

Pure theoretical physics folks prefer to describe the process in quantum probability terms. I like to read that stuff, but in my own mind I prefer the applied science (engineering) way of thinking. When I used to teach electrical I liked to use the water hose analogy. The wire is analogous to a hose, The flow of water in the hose is analogous to current, the pressure to voltage, a container to capacitance, the inertia and water hammer in a long pipe to inductance, a transistor to a tap, a valve to a switch, etc. For most students, that works well to open the door to understanding.

It's very hard for the majority of us to understand or even comprehend the physics because the relative distances are so huge. If the nucleus of a hydrogen atom was a ping-pong ball, it's electrons would be invisible points with mass and energy but no size a kilometer away. Attempting to imagine the flow of electrons in a conductor or an arc becomes somewhat challenging to say the least.

My library doesn't seem to have anything in it to explain the science of welding arcs so I have reached out to a few colleagues. TBD here.
 

Downwindtracker2

Well-Known Member
Yeah, Trevj, Google as a search engine has turned into mostly an ad generator. I find I'm picking up the trail on page 3, if I'm lucky.

My best days as a weldor are 35 years ago. Even then I just passable. In one sawmill where I did weekend overload work, there was a big Westinghouse AC welder in the center of the main floor. I had difficult time getting even a half a** weld with AC. On the much more common Miller DC welders there was quite a difference in weld quality if you didn't make sure it was wired reverse. We used 7018 almost exclusively .
 

trevj

Ultra Member
Yeah, Trevj, Google as a search engine has turned into mostly an ad generator. I find I'm picking up the trail on page 3, if I'm lucky.

My best days as a weldor are 35 years ago. Even then I just passable. In one sawmill where I did weekend overload work, there was a big Westinghouse AC welder in the center of the main floor. I had difficult time getting even a half a** weld with AC. On the much more common Miller DC welders there was quite a difference in weld quality if you didn't make sure it was wired reverse. We used 7018 almost exclusively .
I have told a few folks that "Afore ah joined the Canadian Armed Forces, ah could not spell technician, and now ah are one!" :)

Never had any recognizable quals in most of what I do know, but a fair bit of experience, for good or bad. I worked for over a year on putting a post up the hind end of a CF-18. more or less a 20K pound steel structure. we did a LOT of welding on that show!

The guy in charge of lifting it into place, dropped the whole thing on the ground, because he thought he was smarter than the engineer who designed the project...

The stuff we built, withstood the impact just fine. Our structure was inside the airframe, from just inside the nozzles at the back, up to near the leading edge of the wing.

On the Ad's front, I have come to really enjoy having several Ad-Blockers running in my browser!
 

phaxtris

(Ryan)
Premium Member
Premium Member
looks like the straps broke to me? either undersized or rigged over a corner maybe?
 

trevj

Ultra Member
looks like the straps broke to me? either undersized or rigged over a corner maybe?
Nope. The hoisting mounts on the airframe, were grossly overloaded, and blew out of the structure.

The sawn-off little runt in the cherry picker, was running the lift. He had taken the normal lift sling, used to lift an aircraft that had belly landed or had a gear failure, and removed the cross braces. He was trying to use a chain fall hoist to tilt the whole thing over to 45 degrees. First pull on the chainfall, was when the whole thing came apart. Estimates were, that when he unloaded the one corner, he put the remaining three under much more load than they could hold, and when one hoist point blew out, the rest went really rapidly.

Of note, the whole assembly of mount and (ex)airplane, weighed around 40K pounds. The Center of Gravity of the whole assembly, was almost exactly on the end of the nozzles. He'd have known that, if he wasn't too smart to bother.
He put the small crane on the extreme end of the mount. The lift slings mount over the fuselage, about where the aircraft's Center of Gravity should be, and would have been, had it been an Aircraft lift. So he was using a bastardized lifting sling, without the engineered bracing that it was supposed to be used with, and trying to tilt the whole assembly, so the lift points would be loaded in a direction they were not designed to hold a load in.

The whole thing was a debacle, and the post incident investigations pretty much determined that it was all that one dude's fault.
 

phaxtris

(Ryan)
Premium Member
Premium Member
Sounds like a debacle for sure! I have been involved in some large lifts (biggest was 450k...but then your just a cog at that point), when it's large enough to have an engineered lifting procedure, you just fallow the procedure, anything goes wrong your not on the hook. Hours have normally been put into the plan, calculations have been made, things have been prepared.....just be the cog!

Buddy must have been some arrogant to just wing it!

Most of the regular heavy lifts I do are in the 12-18k range, and even in that there is normally an informal plan as things go wrong fast at even that weight, you want to have things thought out. Everyone involved needs to know what is going on and what there job is, no one wants an accident, Injury or not it's a giant pile of paperwork and a bad day
 

trevj

Ultra Member
Sounds like a debacle for sure! I have been involved in some large lifts (biggest was 450k...but then your just a cog at that point), when it's large enough to have an engineered lifting procedure, you just fallow the procedure, anything goes wrong your not on the hook. Hours have normally been put into the plan, calculations have been made, things have been prepared.....just be the cog!

Buddy must have been some arrogant to just wing it!

Most of the regular heavy lifts I do are in the 12-18k range, and even in that there is normally an informal plan as things go wrong fast at even that weight, you want to have things thought out. Everyone involved needs to know what is going on and what there job is, no one wants an accident, Injury or not it's a giant pile of paperwork and a bad day
I was on scene a few minutes after the drop, and the guy was still running around swearing at the list of names he blamed for it. The guy had been, until then, the supposed guru of aircraft recovery and slinging.
He was dead set convinced that my crew, who had built and installed the mount, and the others that had been involved in stripping the usable parts off the hulk, both to lighten it, and to recycle them back into supply, had cut something, that caused his plan to fail.

I had had some dealings with him prior, and had not very flattering opinion of him and his style, but after that, I really would have stood by and watched him burn, rather than pee on him...
 

trevj

Ultra Member
Ouch!!!

Maybe when we get F-35’s there will be more F-18’s available…
Though it seems a waste, that particular aircraft, and the one it got it's repair parts from, were both essentially write-off's due to heat damage from blown out borescope plugs in the engines grossly overheating parts if the main structure in the aft fuselage. Not 'impossible' to have Boeing tool up and make replacement aft fuselages, just not economical!

I joined the CF about the same time that the CF-18 came in to service, and saw a couple pretty badly damaged airframes get routed in to the trade schools over similar issues. One, went back to McDonnell Douglas, before Boeing bought them out, after a massive overstress event, where the pilot essentially pulled enough G's that they wanted to see why it was still holding together, instead of the wings having come off like they figured would happen...
Another early event that contibuted to the parts hacks and training aids situation, was a pilot that trimmed his aircraft nose down, instead of the required number of degrees Nose Up! When he reached the end of the runway on his takeoff roll, and was unable to get the aircraft to lift off, he ejected, and narrowly missed the razor wire that surrounded that area. The fix that came down, was so stupid simple too. They painted a line on the fuselage, to show the Ground crew where the Horizontal Stab was Supposed to be... High price of an education!
 

trevj

Ultra Member
Short answer. Because we said we would, 20+ years ago.

Long answer. It's complicated as hell!

We (Canadians) bought in to the development program a long time back (Cretin era) and have been paying in since, as a place holder.

Now, we have been called out on our waffling promises from over the years.

Not gonna claim we don't need something better than we have. Just that I'd rather see us get what we need, instead of what is 'currently' on offer!

And, I'd like to see the results arrived at by something resembling a competitive Bid Process.
 

little ol' e

Jus' a hobby guy
We (Canadians) bought in to the development program a long time back (Cretin era) and have been paying in since, as a place holder.

Now, we have been called out on our waffling promises from over the years.
Nothing new here in Chintario, we just continue to pay 'n' pay while they continue to take 'n' pull away.
Ohhh, the push back is.....

Ok, Welders, I'm far from ever being a welder but,
Jus' sayin',

My daughter recently bought me a Mastercraft mig and flux core welder for my birthday. She is a nurse, so I know she doesn't look at tools and such the same way most of us do.
So, I picked up a 1lb spool of Lincoln .03 flux core wire and went at it on a 70's car I have been working on.
Put some new sheet metal along the firewall, floors and rear wheel wells. This thing didn't miss a beat, overall did a great job.

I have to say, I never thought this type of welder would be good for much considering where it was purchased.
Perhaps, she picked Wednesdays model off the shelf.
 
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