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What am I doing wrong?

J

JimGnitecki

Active Member
My son bought me a Canaweld AC-DC TIG 201 Pulse D welder kit (machien plus most items needed to get started in TIG welding), as a birthday present for my 72nd birthday! I ahve never welded before in my life, so am in the process of learning TIG welding via a video course from Pacific Arc TIG Welding (the course is excellent!). It is going very well so far. I have learned to do dry arc dabs, and dry arc welding lanes so far, and am about to add step motion with heat inout control. :)

I have one issue using my setup:

Most of the time, when I slowly press the foot pedal in AC TIG mode (set up per my instructor's settings instructions), I get an arc start like I am supposed to get. Sometimes, there is only a tiny blue momentary arc, and then nothing. And, even less often, NOTHING happens at all when I press the pedal. After a few more attempts over a few seconds to a minute, I get my arc.

What am I doing wrong when I get either that momentary tiny blue arc or nothing at all until after several attempts? (I AM maintaining the proper stand-off distance throughout).

Jim G
 
Almost sounds like a machine issue, OR perhaps your pedal.
So you are are in AC mode doing aluminum with HF start ? Or DC mode for steel?
Turn off your pulse and everything else silly and try to do bare bones, Perhaps remove the pedal from the equation and use just the trigger on the torch ?
Perhaps the POT wiper in the foot pedal is funky?

Report back and some one will guide you along.
Gluck
 
Sounds suspiciously like a poor ground to me. Check your ground connections and try clamping your ground directly to the workpiece to see if that solves your issue.
 
Proxule said:
Almost sounds like a machine issue, OR perhaps your pedal.
So you are are in AC mode doing aluminum with HF start ? Or DC mode for steel?
Turn off your pulse and everything else silly and try to do bare bones, Perhaps remove the pedal from the equation and use just the trigger on the torch ?
Perhaps the POT wiper in the foot pedal is funky?

Report back and some one will guide you along.
Gluck
Click to expand...
This is in AC mode, welding Aluminum, at 120 hz, 1 second preflow, 30% balance, no pulse, and current set amperage does not seem to make a difference.

Dusty at Pacific Arc TIG Welding (My instructor on the video training course I am taking) has replied to my direct question to him and said this happens to him as well. He does not know the cause. But, he also then said:

"
A very strange thing that I discovered and started to teach people that for some reason helps this out, is to tap the filler material right next to the area where you wanted to make a contact with your ARC. Essentially I push down the foot pedal, begin to tap my filler material, for some reason if a machine is struggling to make this connection, it's sometimes actually helps. It sounds bizarre, but I have had many students take care of this problem, and I have no idea how to explain why it helps… I had one student describe it as a magician tapping his magic wand, I thought that was a pretty good one
"

What if anything does that tell us about the possible cause of the issue?

Jim G
 
JimGnitecki said:
I had one student describe it as a magician tapping his magic wand, I thought that was a pretty good one
Click to expand...

Ground?, Or your surface has contamination, Wire wheel or SS brush and try again.
Like van suggested, Move your ground around and see what happens?
 
I will try moving the ground to the workpiece. What I don't like about doing that is that the workpiece will no longer be flat on the welding table, so more prone to warping during welding. This is because during my self-training, I am doing dry arc dabs, dry arcs, dry arcs with stepping, and then arcs with filler, all on 3/16" thick 3" x 6" aluminum 5356 coupons.

The welding table surface is diamond plate aluminum turned upside down since I wanted to avoid steel because it could contaminate the aluminum weld coupons I am using. The welding table size is 24" x 25". The ground clamp from the machine is firmly attached near one corner of the table surface, and the workpiece is maybe 18 inches away from the ground clamp.

I am very particular about cleaning each coupon just before welding. Lacquer thinner wipe down, then brushing with s.s. wire brush in one direction only, then another lacquer thinner wipe down in the same one direction. No black deposits being left, so I think the coupon is clean.

Jim G
 
Pacific Arc Welding is ok but some of what he says is flakey IMHO.

Here are the ones that give way better advise.


The one I like the most is from


Machine wise, you have what you have, its no better or worse than others out there. The basic settings are all the same, tweak here or there for a specific machine.

Justin's video TFS (second link) has excellent videos explaining this, including a live instructional video. His videos are what convinced me from using MIG to going to TIG. Truth be told just using his advise let me make decent looking and solid welds straight out of the box. Over all TIG has become my favourite welding of choice because it is so controllable and versatile.
 
Moving the ground to the workpiece was not really meant as a permanent solution, more to help diagnose the issue. Maybe just weld a tab onto your practice plate to clamp to so it can sit flat for testing purposes.

One thing I would check is that there isn’t any coating on that diamond plate to prevent oxidation that could be interfering with the ground. At the same time the Aluminum oxide that will naturally form on the aluminum table could be the issue itself. The oxide layer could be interfering with the grounding of the workpiece to the table.

I have never seen an aluminum welding table before. Hopefully someone with more experience here can chime in. To test if it is the oxide layer causing problem you could tack your practice plate directly to the table.
 
I know that neither Acetone or Lacquer thinner is great for human inhalaiton, but Is Acetone no less safe to use than lacquer thinner?

Jim G
 
Last edited:
van123d said:
Moving the ground to the workpiece was not really meant as a permanent solution, more to help diagnose the issue. Maybe just weld a tab onto your practice plate to clamp to so it can sit flat for testing purposes.

One thing I would check is that there isn’t any coating on that diamond plate to prevent oxidation that could be interfering with the ground. At the same time the Aluminum oxide that will naturally form on the aluminum table could be the issue itself. The oxide layer could be interfering with the grounding of the workpiece to the table.

I have never seen an aluminum welding table before. Hopefully someone with more experience here can chime in. To test if it is the oxide layer causing problem you could tack your practice plate directly to the table.
Click to expand...
You raise a good point about the oxidization on the aluminum table being a potential issue. I suppose I could try doing the following:

1. I could brush both top and bottom surfaces of the corner where I have the grounding clamp to remove any oxidation, and then clamp the ground clamp back on, and never disturb it so that there is no chance of re-oxidation at the actual contact points.

2. I could wire brush the table surface where I put the workpiece just before each welding session.

Jim G
 
Lacquer thinner typically contains acetone (and other products). Acetone flashes quicker & leaves virtually no residue. LT is more aggressive on many paints & leaves a slight residue that evaporates 'over time'. Personally I cant stand the odor (the toluene?) I think that is what @Degen is saying, a wipe & weld in short time span might flash any residue. Not sure if its much worse than welding fumes, but cant be helpful in any event,

Neither are great to breath. Beware of fire hazard in proximity to heat sources... like welding.



en.wikipedia.org

Acetone - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Lacquer thinner - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
Yes, it sounds like Acetone or Lacquer thinner have similar nasty properties, so I guess I should use Acetone simply because it leaves no residue, and flashes off quickly. But lighting an arc too soon after using either one sounds like a good way to start a fire, since the vapors are flammable.

Jim G
 
Degen said:
Pacific Arc Welding is ok but some of what he says is flakey IMHO.

Here are the ones that give way better advise.


The one I like the most is from


Machine wise, you have what you have, its no better or worse than others out there. The basic settings are all the same, tweak here or there for a specific machine.

Justin's video TFS (second link) has excellent videos explaining this, including a live instructional video. His videos are what convinced me from using MIG to going to TIG. Truth be told just using his advise let me make decent looking and solid welds straight out of the box. Over all TIG has become my favourite welding of choice because it is so controllable and versatile.
Click to expand...
Thank-you Degen for the 2 links! I'll visit them both.

Jim G
 
I think you will have a tough time getting much of a fire from the residue, the rag you just used is your biggest concern, especially if it's sitting covering the open lid on the can for easy access next time...
 
140mower said:
I think you will have a tough time getting much of a fire from the residue, the rag you just used is your biggest concern, especially if it's sitting covering the open lid on the can for easy access next time...
Click to expand...
I always immediately place the cap back on the can, and fully tighten the cap once I have finished my cleaning, before I restart welding! I use a half-sheet of paper towel each time I clean, and dispose of it immediately after cleaning. No used rags laying around! In theory, the paper towel COULD leave a residue of paper towel, but i've never had any evidence of that.

Jim G
 
Six O Two said:
If you're concerned about acetone fumes, you could use 99% rubbing alcohol instead.
Click to expand...
I have never seen alcohol recommended as the cleaning agent, always either Acetone or Lacquer Thinner. Not sure why. But, I have already boguht the Acetone to try, and so will try Acetone first.

Jim G
 
I called Canaweld and asked what could be causing this occasional no-arc issue. The customer service rep asked a few questions and ended up offering to have me do a video of an occurrence and email it in to them.

She did narrow it down a bit. She said that if it only occurs sometimes, not consistently (which is what I have experienced), it is extremely unlikely that the welding machine itself if the cause. Apparently, when the machine has a problem, it's pretty consistent.

She did sugest trying as a test using the torch button control versus the foot pedal, to eliminate the foot pedal as being the cause.

She says that usually this no-arc issue is a result of either a Tungsten electrode problem or a technique problem (hence the invitation to send in a video). She suggested trying a new Tungsten with a good ground end and absolutely clean.

I'll see if I cna get a usable video somehow. Can you use an unprotected iPhone to video TIG welding without either the UV light or the electromagnetic field damaging the iPhone?

Jim G
 
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