What am I doing wrong?

[phaxtris]

A better quality ground clamp is always a good choice, they style you bought is the style I prefer, they last a very long time and are very durable


Going to get some hate for this, removing the oxide layer is entirely unnecessary, half of the Ac waveform does that for you, that is the reason you Tig weld aluminum with AC in the first place, but cleaning it with acetone doesn't hurt to remove contaminants (oil, dirt, whattever), also wiping down your filler rod can help of you have dirty/oily filler

If your weld coupons are satin coat, or have a varnish finish, that will need to be removed, princess auto sold this stuff for a while, they may still....you can tell it apart because the color is slightly different than raw aluminum

 

[JimGnitecki]

. . .

1. There a reason for the balance to be set to 25%? I think I would set it midrange, and forget about it for a while, until you can get good results without the bells and whistles.

2. At school, we ran beads, built up layers of beads, and ran beads across those, as we learned the basics. We learned heat control by building up vertical columns, or by stacking weld bead to build arches across open space.

3. If you have not watched any of his videos yet, YouTube username weldingtipsandtricks is worth the time! Good practical advice, and some great up close views of what is going on in the weld puddle!

1. Yes, my online welding instructor specified all the key parameters for each welding exercise, but also said to adjust from the ones he provides as you learn what works for you. He specified approximately 30% balance for the current exercises, but he likes to have a small ball on the end of the Tungsten. I prefer a small blunt end (betetr precision), and my Tungsten was starting to ball more than I wanted at 30% balance, so I reduced the balance to 25% and now have the Tungsten shape I want. And yes, no need to learn pulsing yet, as the current exercise material is 3/16" thick, not thin material where pulsing would be advantageous or even required. I am also experimenting with higher and lower amperage and seeing how higher amperage can actually keep the coupon cooler because you use less TIME heating it.

2. That "stacking" of weld beads sounds like a worthwhile exercise. I have been doing some stacking on the coupons, as well as "extending" both cooled and still hot beads to see if I can do so without wrecking them.

3. I have been watching YouTube videos extensively. Each video maker has his own techniques and preferences, so I have learned to select the best from multiple sources!

Jim G

 

[JimGnitecki]

Do be aware that you may be introducing yet another variable in, and that is the issue of having your puddle decide to fall out the underside of your weld, if the weld area is unsupported.
. . .

Yes, I guess that could become a problem. I will see. If that does occur, I'll go back to setting the coupon onto 2 other coupons instead, with just enough gap between those 2 supporting coupons to enable inserting the bottom scissor of the grounding clamp.

Jim G

 

[JimGnitecki]

A better quality ground clamp is always a good choice, they style you bought is the style I prefer, they last a very long time and are very durable


1. Going to get some hate for this, removing the oxide layer is entirely unnecessary, half of the Ac waveform does that for you, that is the reason you Tig weld aluminum with AC in the first place, but cleaning it with acetone doesn't hurt to remove contaminants (oil, dirt, whattever), also wiping down your filler rod can help of you have dirty/oily filler

2. If your weld coupons are satin coat, or have a varnish finish, that will need to be removed, princess auto sold this stuff for a while, they may still....you can tell it apart because the color is slightly different than raw aluminum

1. I think my instructor (Dusty at Pacific Arc TIG) is teaching us students to clean ALWAYS not necessarily because it is always essential, but because it usually is, especially with steel that has either mill slag or anti-rust protection or paint residue or other unknowns on it. It's a great HABIT, and it is better to do it "automatically" unless we have consiously thought out what material we are welding and are sure we don't need to clean it that well. This prevents doing a weld and then finding that contaminants have made that a "bad" weld.

2. My weld coupons started as 3/16" x 3" x 20' flat bar at a local steel supplier where they cut the flat bar into 6" lengths to make my coupons, and evidently used a cutting lubricant because the coupons DID have residue on them. For my next batch of coupons, I will have a plasma cutter in hand, so the steel supplier will just cut the 20' length (their minimum order) into 3 pieces to fit in my pickup truck. I will then cut the coupons myself using the plasma cutter. So I will have much better control of the cleanliness of the coupons.

Jim G

 

[trevj]

1. I think my instructor (Dusty at Pacific Arc TIG) is teaching us students to clean ALWAYS not necessarily because it is always essential, but because it usually is, especially with steel that has either mill slag or anti-rust protection or paint residue or other unknowns on it. It's a great HABIT, and it is better to do it "automatically" unless we have consiously thought out what material we are welding and are sure we don't need to clean it that well. This prevents doing a weld and then finding that contaminants have made that a "bad" weld.

2. My weld coupons started as 3/16" x 3" x 20' flat bar at a local steel supplier where they cut the flat bar into 6" lengths to make my coupons, and evidently used a cutting lubricant because the coupons DID have residue on them. For my next batch of coupons, I will have a plasma cutter in hand, so the steel supplier will just cut the 20' length (their minimum order) into 3 pieces to fit in my pickup truck. I will then cut the coupons myself using the plasma cutter. So I will have much better control of the cleanliness of the coupons.

Jim G

I find plasma leaves a dirty edge.

Got any woodworking tools? A woodworking band saw will cut aluminum very well, as will a circular saw (Skilsaw) or Chop Saw. Clamp your work, if using the circular saws. Knew a welder who built Herring skiffs and other boats, out on Vancouver Island. He used a SkilSaw, and whatever blades were the cheapest at the hardware store to cut all his aluminum sheet goods.

I see that they are selling CerMet blades for cutting steel, for cordless saws now, too.

In my experience, I have found that you can handily ignore the 'three teeth in the cut' rule, if you have the brains to resist gronking the stock in to the moving teeth!

Much of what you are describing, as reasons to clean, are not going to come off with a little brush and some solvent! Angle grinders, and die grinders were the tools of choice!

 

[JimGnitecki]

I find plasma leaves a dirty edge.

Got any woodworking tools? A woodworking band saw will cut aluminum very well, as will a circular saw (Skilsaw) or Chop Saw. Clamp your work, if using the circular saws. Knew a welder who built Herring skiffs and other boats, out on Vancouver Island. He used a SkilSaw, and whatever blades were the cheapest at the hardware store to cut all his aluminum sheet goods.

I see that they are selling CerMet blades for cutting steel, for cordless saws now, too.

In my experience, I have found that you can handily ignore the 'three teeth in the cut' rule, if you have the brains to resist gronking the stock in to the moving teeth!

Much of what you are describing, as reasons to clean, are not going to come off with a little brush and some solvent! Angle grinders, and die grinders were the tools of choice!

The plasma cutter seemed like a no brainer since I need the plasma cutter to do pattern cuts in aluminum and stainless steel. But, my biggest concernwas not the rough edges it might create on the coupons, but rather the sparks and molten metal it throws, which of course are a safety issue (fire, and burn injuries to the operator).

But wouldn't a circular saw, jigsaw, or wood bandsaw (all of which I have) actually propel lots of metal and sparks horizontally? (whereas the plasma cutter propels them DOWNWARD where they can be caught in a waterfilled tray). Also, it would seem that there is a far greater potential for injury from a circular saw blade or jig saw blade than from a plasma cutter, as you have to apply FORCE to both the saw and the workpiece to keep things under control. You also likely have to use a cutting lubrcant, which can then spray into the air as well as leave a residue on each piece cut.

Am I seeing this correctly or incorrectly? (I have no experience in cutting metal)

Jim G

 

[phaxtris]

@trevj is right, the plasma edge is garbage for Tig welding, if you plasma cut, and want to weld that edge, be prepared to grind off the kerf, and wood working tools are great for aluminum, no fancy blades required, Infact the production Tig shop I used to work at cut all of the structural shapes with Hitachi brand wood chop saws. Clean and fast but very loud, glad they had saw operators for that.

Tip for grinding aluminum, use the sanding discs and grind in some candle wax before you use it on the aluminum, it will prevent the disc from plugging

I am not advising you to not clean dirty material, I am saying that removing the oxide layer on aluminum (wire brush) is absolutely not required, in fact if you do that in a Tig shop be prepared for a scolding, and if you keep doing it start looking for a new job

 

[trevj]

The plasma cutter seemed like a no brainer since I need the plasma cutter to do pattern cuts in aluminum and stainless steel. But, my biggest concernwas not the rough edges it might create on the coupons, but rather the sparks and molten metal it throws, which of course are a safety issue (fire, and burn injuries to the operator).

But wouldn't a circular saw, jigsaw, or wood bandsaw (all of which I have) actually propel lots of metal and sparks horizontally? (whereas the plasma cutter propels them DOWNWARD where they can be caught in a waterfilled tray). Also, it would seem that there is a far greater potential for injury from a circular saw blade or jig saw blade than from a plasma cutter, as you have to apply FORCE to both the saw and the workpiece to keep things under control. You also likely have to use a cutting lubrcant, which can then spray into the air as well as leave a residue on each piece cut.

Am I seeing this correctly or incorrectly? (I have no experience in cutting metal)

Jim G

Try the stuff out. It will likely be an epiphany! My wood bandsaw gets more use on metal than wood. No lubricant! Of the types of saws, I would say that he bandsaw is the easiest to use, and leaves the roughest surface. Still best choice for separating off a thick chunk, or if a curved cut is wanted.

About the only word of warning, would be, if you were doing high end woodworking, you don't really want metal chips around your stuff. You will have to clean your wheels off really well, before you attack that $1000 block of figured maple! If ya know what I mean.

Metal chips will fly, just as sawdust will, if using a circ saw. Pick your place, and wear eye protection. Never seen a spark off aluminum. Have seen the after effects of cutting a magnesium aircraft wheel, though. That was bad! The edge left, will be pretty and clean, and will require a stroke of a file, to knock off the sharp edge. Set the stock in a vise or clamp it at the edge of a table or bench, and run the saw across it. A speedsquare makes a nice guide to use. A cold cut saw would be nice, but they want some pretty good money for one, and, frankly, I have better things to spend mine on right now.
I have also used a sled on a table saw.

My biggest circ saw job was breaking down a 5 foot by 12 foot sheet of 2 and 1/4 inch thick 7075 plate, in to manageable pieces. Another was 5, 4x8 sheets of 1" 7075, into sections to fit a jig I made for a big project on my mill at that time.

If you have a plasma cutter, I recommend that you find a chunk of aluminum that you won't miss, and have a go at it, to see what you think of the edge left behind.

 

[JimGnitecki]

I do realize that a plasma cutter also "hardens" the edges of the material where it has cut, via heating to a very high temperature, but the cut edges would often be "not-for-welding edges, but rather edges that are going to be just ground or belt sanded (with aluminum oxide belts) for a finished look.

So I can use my 10" bandsaw to cut aluminum without changing blades even? Does cutting the aluminum simply wear the blade faster than cutting wood? Do you need to isolate that blade afterwards for use on aluminum only, or can you still use the blade on wood? Why I am asking is not to save the cost of a bandsaw blade, but rather its the lengthy process to remove and replace bandsaw baldes and reset the correct tension each time you do it!

I'd like to avoid using ther jigsaw or circular saw for safety and ergonomic reasons. Both tools would seem to me to require great care for safety, a lot of properly applied force and/or clamps to hold both the tool and the workpiece steady, and a MUCH larger debris field to clean up afterwards.

Jim G

 

[trevj]

I do realize that a plasma cutter also "hardens" the edges of the material where it has cut, via heating to a very high temperature, but the cut edges would often be "not-for-welding edges, but rather edges that are going to be just ground or belt sanded (with aluminum oxide belts) for a finished look.

So I can use my 10" bandsaw to cut aluminum without changing blades even? Does cutting the aluminum simply wear the blade faster than cutting wood? Do you need to isolate that blade afterwards for use on aluminum only, or can you still use the blade on wood? Why I am asking is not to save the cost of a bandsaw blade, but rather its the lengthy process to remove and replace bandsaw baldes and reset the correct tension each time you do it!

I'd like to avoid using ther jigsaw or circular saw for safety and ergonomic reasons. Both tools would seem to me to require great care for safety, a lot of properly applied force and/or clamps to hold both the tool and the workpiece steady, and a MUCH larger debris field to clean up afterwards.

Jim G

Pretty much every bulk roll of band saw blade that I ever welded up blades from, stated that the blade was suitable for wood and non-ferrous metals. So far, that has held true for my uses.

I use the regular wood blades that I can get on sale at KMS tools, or wherever else, and simply leave them in place. I don't do much woodworking, and none of the "Fine" variety. Have not seen the need to isolate a blade for aluminum only use.

In the case of Plasma on Aluminum, you are creating a rough surface with lots of oxides. You are essentially using an air blast to blow out the material melted by the plasma stream from the torch. Air with it's fair share of oxygen.

It's quick, but dirty.

Pretty much every heat based process has to deal with a Heat Affected Zone. The results vary, depending on the material type. Heat (welding level heat) makes Aluminum go soft. Some alloys can be subsequently heat treated to make them harder (artificial aging) or the alloys can simply be left to precipitate out the alloying elements in real (long) time. Heat treating is a set of skills and knowledge in it's own right, and there are some great reference books out there. Not everything gets hard just because you got it hot and quenched it!

EVERY tool requires it's own due care for safe use!

 

[Janger]

In one of the Dan Gelbart video's he is talking about painting and getting a surface clean. He says there are hydrocarbons in the air in cities which stick to the metal. He then says solvents, acetone, and the like are pointless as they just smear & move the hydrocarbons around without removing it. Surprisingly his conclusion is bathroom powdered cleanser is best for removing and cleaning a surface to get it really clean. I think avoiding chemicals like acetone or solvents is best. In chem class acetone was required to be handled with gloves on and reach under the fume hood door to pour or do anything with it. Other posters noted cleaning with solvents is not necessary. I just use some fine sandpaper to take off the oxide. Good welding technique is more important than sweating these details.

 

[Former Member]

I must say listen to the professional welders here. Everything that they say is pretty well spot on. They rest well, experience but not the best advise.

Additionally Aluminium scarf should be treat a potential hazard and flammable, not that it happens often but enough that its on a WHMIS label. Right amount of aluminium dust/scarf some iron filing/dust and a touch of water.....well think termite. Surprised the hell out of me the first time I got the WHMIS label on a large purchase years ago.

 

[phaxtris]

He then says solvents, acetone, and the like are pointless as they just smear & move the hydrocarbons around without removing it

im sure thats true, the solvents do help to get rid of the larger contaminants , bandsaw cutting fluid like the op mentioned, or other stray oils that may have ended up on the material during shipping/handling/sitting in the shop....that is if they are present

But, in an aluminum shop, the process normally goes like this....material is brought in (normally in a covered/enclosed semi trailer), it goes through the initial forming stages dry, weather that be cutting, stamping, or braking, then it goes straight to the welders to be welded, typically in some form of steel jig, there is no additional cleaning steps before or after, and the welders will typically not clean anything unless there is obvious grease or oil present. most of the welding is done with transformer machines, without pulse. This is the process used for even the most high end of weldments, GD contract stuff (Turret baskets for the G-wagons, Cooling units for tanks, and other msc aluminum parts for military equipment), using a wire brush on even the lowest end aluminum weldment was never aloud, the damage to the finish was undesirable and in certain cases could cause the part to be rejected. This is how its done in ISO certified shops, for literally the highest paying most discerning customers.

Aluminum mig is a different story, no one gives a dam there, it looks terrible either way.

You have got to watch with some of the you tube welding guys, many of the ones ive seen are more content creators than they are welders. so just be aware that it may not be the only or best way things are done.

 

[trevj]

I must say listen to the professional welders here. Everything that they say is pretty well spot on. They rest well, experience but not the best advise.

Additionally Aluminium scarf should be treat a potential hazard and flammable, not that it happens often but enough that its on a WHMIS label. Right amount of aluminium dust/scarf some iron filing/dust and a touch of water.....well think termite. Surprised the hell out of me the first time I got the WHMIS label on a large purchase years ago.

My understanding (sometimes a stretch!) is that the powdered metals have to be really super-fine to be able to initiate the Thermite reaction. Lots of the Pyrotechnics guys are ball milling fine aluminum to use to brighten up their fireworks, while others are simply buying it ready milled.

Have not searched the usual places, to see if any of the usual suspects have posted videos on making the home made stuff...

 

[JimGnitecki]

Thanks guys, for the additional very useful and reassuring ways the best pro shops do it. That makes things a lot simpler for me as I learn about TIG welding.

Jim G

 

[johnnielsen]

Try putting the ground clamp right on the piece you are welding. You may already have tried this and I missed it.

 

[JimGnitecki]

Try putting the ground clamp right on the piece you are welding. You may already have tried this and I missed it.

Yes, I did.

 

[trevj]

Thanks guys, for the additional very useful and reassuring ways the best pro shops do it. That makes things a lot simpler for me as I learn about TIG welding.

Jim G

I really gotta say, again, that stuff like worrying about contamination, and cleanliness, is something you should learn and practice, but if you are just getting started out, your time is worth far more to you just running beads in different directions, watching what is going on in the puddle, and getting the hands kills and muscle memory down. Learn to keep a tight arc, and keep the filler rod in the gas shield as much as possible. After that, it's just form a puddle, feed in rod, move forward, repeat as required!

I was never a Pro Welder, but I got paid to weld, and never had any of my work thrown down in front of me, looking for an explanation. As little as that is, it's still experience to fall back on!

 

[Former Member]

My understanding (sometimes a stretch!) is that the powdered metals have to be really super-fine to be able to initiate the Thermite reaction. Lots of the Pyrotechnics guys are ball milling fine aluminum to use to brighten up their fireworks, while others are simply buying it ready milled.

Have not searched the usual places, to see if any of the usual suspects have posted videos on making the home made stuff...

Like I said its not a common occurrence but considering that it is including in a WHMIS warning should make you think just a little.

In just over 3 months I created 2/3's of a 40gal pail of aluminium scarf . It still amazes me how much I create. So yes I do take the best precautions possible.

If I can find the original WHMIS sheet, I'll post it for all to keep a copy of.

 

[trevj]

Like I said its not a common occurrence but considering that it is including in a WHMIS warning should make you think just a little.

In just over 3 months I created 2/3's of a 40gal pail of aluminium scarf . It still amazes me how much I create. So yes I do take the best precautions possible.

If I can find the original WHMIS sheet, I'll post it for all to keep a copy of.

Swarf? Auto-Correct is a PITA!

I keep in mind, all the times I saw emails claiming that welding while wearing Contact lenses, would cause them to weld to your eyes, and a bunch along those lines.

The shop I worked in had only one metal fire, it was a magnesium aircraft wheel that bound up on the blade of a bandsaw, as it was cut, and the friction ignited the metal flakes below the table.

Pretty exciting stuff, when you know the guy responsible for clearing almost 500 people out of one building!

Would be interested in seeing that WHMIS sheet. I was the "WHMIS Guy" in our shop for some years, and my major takeaway was to wash your hands, and don't eat what they force feed the rats! Or at least, only eat less than what killed half of them!

I can recall several times this 'issue' was discusse or warned about in various Hobby Magazines (HSM, ME), but it was always "a friend told me that someone he knew, knows a guy...."