VFD programming Hz ?

[Susquatch]

At the risk of derailing this somewhat, how much can you safely increase the max hz of a 220V 3 phase motor?
20%? 30%? 50%?
This is the VFD I have.

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07PXSF1PQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Your vfd doesn't really matter. Your motor is what defines the max. Lots of opinions around on what is safe. I basically agree with what @DPittman said with some caveats.

The lowest speed is usually limited by motor cooling capability, and the top end by the quality of the motor bearings. I am a 25% more or less believer when you don't know enough to feel safe stretching things - so 45 Hz to 75. You can stretch that by adding cooling at the bottom end and limiting the exposure at the top end.

Many motors are actually rated so you can just read the manufacturers specs and know how far you can go. A VFD Rated motor can do 10 :1, 20:1, and mine is 1000:1. Just search your motor specs on-line. Surprising what you can find.

You asked about top end. If you don't know your motors capabilities, I'd stick with 75 for long exposure and 90 for short periods. Lots of guys do much more and have no problems with it though.

What makes a VFD so nice is that you can set your Max to 90 and then only go that fast when you need to!

 

[Ironman]

but it will take it and run at about 2000 rpm for an hour or more without any other drama if I roll into it slowly.
Maybe I need a bit bigger VFD ?

No, bigger is not the solution for that issue. Try asking a question on the Amazon page from other users. Sometimes that is a help. Why I went with the Mollem when replacing the exploded Vevor, was that they have a tech in the USA and you can email him, he answers promptly, and English is his first language. He was a help in finding out the factory reset, the manual was not.
I am guessing, but there should be human tech support available for your rig, just need to find it.

I was reading about this and the author stated that after 90 cycles on a 60 hz motor the efficiency goes out the window. Not sure but I would assume hysteresis of the cores and such is the issue

 

[Ironman]

I took mine up to 90 cycles by following Craig's and my advice to verify, and then set it all back to 60 max. I have gears and I know how to shift them.

 

[slow-poke]

The most important parameters are the ones related to your actual motor, HP, current voltage etc. Followed by settings for min and max RPM, acceleration and deceleration. Icing on the cake is sensorless vector control for low speed torque (If your VFD supports it, not all do). Should be no problem running at 90Hz if the other settings are correct.

 

[Susquatch]

I was reading about this and the author stated that after 90 cycles on a 60 hz motor the efficiency goes out the window. Not sure but I would assume hysteresis of the cores and such is the issue

That's only true of older motors. Most of the newer ones don't fall apart like that. I've run my VFD Rated motor at 120hz with no issues but still have my max set at 90.

 

[Susquatch]

Icing on the cake is sensorless vector control for low speed torque (If your VFD supports it, not all do).

In essence I agree with you. But a few times I have found that I couldnt get it to run in SLV mode if I didn't set it first. I confess that I don't really understand why. I suspect it might be related to a few settings that are not compatible with SLV. But once you set it up for SLV mode, it won't let you make those other incompatible settings. So I prefer to do it right after setting my motor parameters.

A word of advice to everyone using a VFD - if your VFD supports SLV mode, you need to do yourself a favour and try it. The difference in smoothness, response, and vibration is unbelievable. It's like the motor is suddenly 50x the quality. Has to be seen to be believed!

 

[BaitMaster]

That drive does not do vector flux. It is a straight v/hz control scheme.

The parameters P00 to P07 are going to be used by the controller to decide what averaged voltage to output at each frequency.

Those parameters being out of whack could make the drive output wacky voltages at wacky frequencies, such as a low or high voltage for the speed it’s running, causing high current draw and triggering your overload fault.

Show us the parameters when you get a sec.

 

[cuslog]

Usually not the case.

Is it possible to list the parameters you have entered for P00 to P07

OK, seems I've made some progress, went out to the shop to record and list P00 thru P07 while looking at the default parameters, noticed P03 (intermediate frequency) set at 46 while default is listed at 25. Reset P03 to the default of 25. Reset P06 to 70, seems to take it fine, reset P06 to 75 ......... takes it fine. I've never knowingly changed P03 to 46 but changing it back to the default of 25 seems to make it happier.
So here's what I have set currently:
P00......... 220
P01...........50 (The default)
P02........... 110
P03.......... 25
P04.......... 0.0
P05......... 0.0
P06.......... 75
P07.......... 0.0

 

[Susquatch]

That drive does not do vector flux. It is a straight v/hz control scheme.

That's too bad, but it is what it is.

You wouldn't happen to know what the least costly drive is that does support SLV mode? Say for a 2Hp motor, or whatever size that can be compared fairly.

 

[BaitMaster]

That's too bad, but it is what it is.

You wouldn't happen to know what the least costly drive is that does support SLV mode? Say for a 2Hp motor, or whatever size that can be compared fairly.

Automation direct durapuls gs21-22P0

 

[BaitMaster]

OK, seems I've made some progress, went out to the shop to record and list P00 thru P07 while looking at the default parameters, noticed P03 (intermediate frequency) set at 46 while default is listed at 25. Reset P03 to the default of 25. Reset P06 to 70, seems to take it fine, reset P06 to 75 ......... takes it fine. I've never knowingly changed P03 to 46 but changing it back to the default of 25 seems to make it happier.
So here's what I have set currently:
P00......... 220
P01...........50 (The default)
P02........... 110
P03.......... 25
P04.......... 0.0
P05......... 0.0
P06.......... 75
P07.......... 0.0

Your going to want to change p01 to 60 and p03 to 30.

Change p06 to whatever you want.

Should work fine then.

 

[Susquatch]

Automation direct durapuls gs21-22P0

Thank you. I'll check it out. I'd like to be able to at least let others know about it if they don't want to pop for the likes of a Teco. I wouldn't be able to vouch for it, but at least I could give folks a lower cost option to get SLV.

As is prolly very evident, I think SLV is the cat's ass.

 

[BaitMaster]

Thank you. I'll check it out. I'd like to be able to at least let others know about it if they don't want to pop for the likes of a Teco. I wouldn't be able to vouch for it, but at least I could give folks a lower cost option to get SLV.

As is prolly very evident, I think SLV is the cat's ass.

The durapuls have worked well whenever I’ve had anything to do with them. The programming can be a little complicated as they are “full featured”.

Automation direct has awesome customer service and warranty as well.

It’s a good option.

 

[Susquatch]

The durapuls have worked well whenever I’ve had anything to do with them. The programming can be a little complicated as they are “full featured”.

Automation direct has awesome customer service and warranty as well.

It’s a good option.

Even better! I can say you vouched for them!

Thank you again!

 

[Ironman]

John, you use any braking resistors? and impressions?

 

[Darren]

Thank you. I'll check it out. I'd like to be able to at least let others know about it if they don't want to pop for the likes of a Teco. I wouldn't be able to vouch for it, but at least I could give folks a lower cost option to get SLV.

As is prolly very evident, I think SLV is the cat's ass.

Out of the 11 vfd's ive had, the 2 that have been completely trouble free, easy programming, etc...are both Teco L510's. Well worth a few extra bucks if you don't need a braking resistor.

On my emco lathe I have the L510 playing nicely with the electromechanical motor brake

 

[slow-poke]

Video of braking resistor effectiveness on my drill press.....
Post in thread 'VFDs and Emergency Stops'
https://canadianhobbymetalworkers.com/threads/vfds-and-emergency-stops.6771/post-100836

 

[cuslog]

Your going to want to change p01 to 60 and p03 to 30.

Change p06 to whatever you want.

Should work fine then.

Thanks for your help --- Much appreciated !

 

[BaitMaster]

My view on the different drive manufacturers is this… and take it with a grain of salt but also coming from someone who has installed/commissioned/replaced/programmed hundreds if not thousands of drives…..

You have Low tier… Amazon china special… usually they work for awhile at least but man are they cheap and sometimes they last awhile and work great…. Huangyang inverter co. Drives being the top end of this bracket… they seem to do really well. Almost all of these are volts per hearts control only.

Mid tier name brand drives, these are your tecos, Schneider Altivar, basic level Mitsubishi, basic Omron, basic vacon/danfoss, Delta, Allen Bradley , automation direct durapuls… etc. these are all basically comparable minus programming quirks on some. The ones with more complicated programming usually “do more” so it’s a trade off. Almost all have flux vector. Good reliability and service from reputable manufacturers….

Top end drives. Yaskawa. High end Mitsubishi or Omron. High end danfoss/vacon… etc… I would almost throw Toshiba in here just for reliability…. these cost a fortune but are crazy what they can do. There are other manufacturers I’m sure that I’m missing from this tier but yaskawa would be the best example I can think of.

If I had unlimited money I would do a yaskawa on what I was doing…..

In reality I have an ancient Altivar and a huangyang…..

Money talks.

The bargains in the space that I see are either the automation direct brand new, landed in Canada for somewhere around 300$, or look on eBay for one of the other mid tier brands new in box, but without warranty.

Buying any of the mid tier drives brand new from an approved distributor is the safest option for sure. Teco, Allen Bradley, Schneider altivar, danfoss etc all have widespread distribution in Canada and are comparable on price and features. Tecos being more affordable out of the group.

Really it’s kind of like a pick up truck…. People like dodge and chevy or ford…. And Toyota…..

Just my two cents.

 

[Susquatch]

Just my two cents

A pretty valuable pair of pennies if you ask me.

Thank you.