VFD fundamentals

PeterT

Ultra Member
Premium Member
Yes, thanks. That's what this post was about - VFD and 3P motor retrofit. After I price everything out & see what other factors might be in store for me like potentially metric motor shaft & sheaves of current 1P motor, I'll take stock & evaluate 'nice to have vs need to have'. Flipping belts isn't the end of the world. It's a lazy mans problem. As Mcgyver noted, this DP has an intermediary shaft, so is actually pretty functional in its existing fixed RPM mode. Other DP's are more constrained so would be a better VFD candidate from that standpoint.

OTOH the same VFD/motor moola could be applied to a belt sander kit, which realistically I would probably utilize more. Another thing this discussion has yielded to my simple brain is sharing a VFD to another machine is probably not a great option on multiple fronts. The motor/application would have to be nearly identical in order to preserve the programming effort.
 

Hacker

Super User
Sorry I have been pretty busy the last couple of days. Looking at your cabinet I don't see any vents for air circulation and the door looks like it is sealed so that is not going to help. The VFD has a fan on it and all you might need to do it to drill in a couple of holes. I have a vent on the bottom and on the side at the top of my cabinet to allow for air circulation and have not had any issues. The other thing that might be saving me is that the RPC and VFD don't don't run at the same time.
 

thestelster

Ultra Member
Premium Member
Sorry I have been pretty busy the last couple of days. Looking at your cabinet I don't see any vents for air circulation and the door looks like it is sealed so that is not going to help. The VFD has a fan on it and all you might need to do it to drill in a couple of holes. I have a vent on the bottom and on the side at the top of my cabinet to allow for air circulation and have not had any issues. The other thing that might be saving me is that the RPC and VFD don't don't run at the same time.
I put my VFD's in electrical pull boxes and remove a couple of knock outs from the bottom sides and top for air circulation. I also have these little vent caps that fit into the knock outs. On my VFD's you can monitor the heat sink temperature. On this picture I have a clear plastic sheet hanging on two screws so that I can quickly change settings, and its spaced about 1/4" away from the pull box, for added ventilation.
 

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Hacker

Super User
I put my VFD's in electrical pull boxes and remove a couple of knock outs from the bottom sides and top for air circulation. I also have these little vent caps that fit into the knock outs. On my VFD's you can monitor the heat sink temperature. On this picture I have a clear plastic sheet hanging on two screws so that I can quickly change settings, and its spaced about 1/4" away from the pull box, for added ventilation.
Looks good, here is a shot of mine. I should put some sort of screen over my holes. I have one in the top left and one under the capacitors on the lower right.
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Hacker

Super User
Thanks Craig, yes it is for the RPC the VFD is used for the coolant pump and trace r attachment on my lathe.
 

Susquatch

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Premium Member
There is much to be said for good support if you need it.

Amazon VFDs = zero support which makes anything but the most basic install an adventure

I had the same experience as @Dabbler . The only time they let me down was when I started asking really tough questions along the lines of what @Brent H asked earlier. They certainly were awesome to begin with and my VFD does work great.

To be fair though, the door is not closed yet. I am still waiting for a reply and a few days ago when I checked on it, my support ticket is still open. If I were to guess, I'd say that the design engineers are busy qualifying a new product and won't have time to answer questions like mine until after the new product is launched.
 

Brent H

Ultra Member
@Susquatch - I believe I found an answer for the intermediate voltage:

“The intermediate circuit smoothes the DC voltage and compensates for load surges, such as during start-up or during sudden load changes, and acts as a buffer circuit for the energy the VFD supplies the motor. Modern drives use a DC voltage of constant amplitude. For energy storage, they typically use electrolytic capacitors that also smooth the pulsating DC voltage.

In practice, under no-load conditions, the VFD DC link voltage is typically about √2 x mains voltage. The DC link voltage drops under load but in motor regenerative operation, such as during fast deceleration of high-inertia loads, the motor feeds energy back into the intermediate circuit and the DC link voltage increases. If the voltage attempts to exceed the intermediate critical value, the VFD will either back off the deceleration ramp, or cut the supply to the motor to prevent damage.

In contrast to a purely resistive load, the capacitive smoothing of the DC link results in a non-sinusoidal voltage. This creates network effects or harmonics. In a three-phase supply, these harmonics range in frequency up to about 2 kHz. As a countermeasure, inductive chokes are fitted in series in the intermediate circuit to limit these harmonics. Another advantage of chokes in the DC link is that they smooth the charging of the capacitor and thereby extend its life.

To minimize system disturbance, some manufacturers reduce the capacitance of the intermediate circuit, or even eliminate the DC link capacitors entirely. This does not completely eliminate the line-side disturbances, but moves them to other frequency ranges (up to 10 kHz). This, however, causes problems through the reduced or lack of smoothing of the DC link voltage. Thus, only a reduced motor voltage is available at the drive output, resulting in higher currents for full-load motor operation at the same duty point, with increased motor heating.

Picture2.jpg

Built-in chokes reduce the line harmonic distortion and protect the dc link capacitors.”

That is quoted from a article on the web. It still does not specify anything about settings for a typical motor - basically that the intermediate voltage setting will not be exceeded for the protection of the motor during sudden load changes- like stopping. The Intermediate frequency setting is to keep the v/f ratio correct during the changes of load.

Essentially your average Joe hooking one of these VFD’s up will be lost in the math. I am not sure how many of us would even require the speed programming for different operations that the units can do either? Anyway, mine is left at default 110/30 (I adjusted the 25 to 30 as we are running a 60 Hz motor. Things run well.
 
I did my conversion last summer using a Lenze SVC VFD and good quality 3 phase motor (china made). I sourced both from a motor shop I knew from my elevator days (so its trusted). Basically walked in and said I want a motor to match this single phase one and make it VFD. Did all the wiring myself. I was warned that this motor is a regular 3 phase motor and depending how I push it the VFD will handle it the motor might not perform to spec. At that point upgrade to a VFD rated motor for big bucks and go from there. So far not needed and no complaints.
 

Susquatch

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At that point upgrade to a VFD rated motor for big bucks and go from there.

I guess big bucks is a little vague but still directionally correct. My 1000:1 motor was just a bit more $ than a regular motor because it was an "open box" scratch & dent return. It ran perfect though so I'm not complaining. Very very happy with the end result.

Looking forward to converting my lathe to 3ph VFD from single phase 220 later this year some time.
 

deleted_user

Super User
I want to add something else about amazon sourced VFDs

IF you have a simple demand to drive a 3/4HP motor that you want variable speed on without anything fancy or if you have performed a VFD conversion using another better supported product then you will likely be well served by an amazon sourced VFD OF THE CORRECT SIZE OUTPUT AND 220 single phase input and 3 phase output.

I'd be far more concerned with sourcing the motor.

I have an antique bench drill press I got from my grandfather... Just for fun I may convert it to a VFD
 
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