Vactra

Bandit

Super User
In general, I have found bar oil to be some what sticky, get it on your hands and it takes a bit of wiping to get off, heavy gear oil is some what the same in that regard.
As to how much your saw uses, well, most saws I have used it was a 1 to 1 ratio, tank of gas to tank of bar oil. One Stil I had used a little more bar oil then that, the 280xp Husky used less, the latest Echo Timber Wolf also less. The older saws from my younger days don't remember, but refill gas --refill bar oil.
Some saws have an adjustment to control bar oil flow.
Yes, I have used engine oil, (not used) for bar oil, if short of bar oil.
I got a pail of way oil from Napa some time ago, about 200 + dollars now.
Just seen 140mower post, yes it is a difficult job for bar oil, mostly seems to come of the tip as change of direction.
 

Dan Dubeau

Ultra Member
You should look into adjusting the oiler on your saws if they fling that much oil. A general rule of thumb I was taught and adhere to (before the internet, so no doubt I'm wrong and don't know it yet :D) is to hold the saw WOT with the tip of the bar 3-4" away from the end of a log and observe the oil being flung off onto the log. Adjust it until you DON'T see that anymore, and then open it up just a tich more, until you just start to see it again. I think most saws come being turned wide open as a way to sell more bar oil lol. I think all the pro, and prosumer saws have adjustable oilers, but the homeowner ones generally don't. My bigger Stihls do, but my little ms170 doesn't. I run that simple check everytime I use my saws after periods of inactivity simply to check and see if the oiler is working or not before cutting. They ususally use a tank of oil per tank of gas, which IMO is a bit too much. But some tend to err on the side of caution. Depends on what type of wood you're cutting too. A few other variables like bar length etc too (which is one reason for adjustable oilers on bigger saws). While I don't really cut a lot of wood anymore, enough to really worry about excess oil consumtion anyway, I never noticed any excess bar and chain wear running my oilers turned down a little from factory when I used to cut alot to heat the house. It usually shows up early as excess heat and burning of the bar. Great way to diagnose that your oiler isn't oiling anymore.....

If the bar oil didn't have tackifiers, it wouldn't be able to do its job at all, it would just fly off immediately. Which is why engine oil does such a poor job. I'm sure way lube has other additives to withstand the pressures and such of lubing bearing surfaces, but I'd be really curious to learn just what the differences are. From a practical standpoint though, I think bar oil would be the closest box store solution to an industrial problem there is. It's really cheap too.
 

Susquatch

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If anything, I think chain oil might be just a little bit too sticky...... But, I use it anyway.

What do you think about thinning it or mixing in a bit of winter bar oil?

Your thoughts on the need for a sticker in bar oil are also interesting. The fact that chain saw manufacturers recommend bar oil and sell it with stickers is a compelling argument. Although it's a giant rabbit hole, I'd still like to know more.

In the meantime, being the penultimate Doubting Thomas myself, I guess I prefer to play it safe and "stick" with purpose formulated way oil for my machines and purpose formulated bar oil for my saws and not worry about it till I know much much more.
 

Susquatch

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You should look into adjusting the oiler on your saws if they fling that much oil. A general rule of thumb I was taught and adhere to (before the internet, so no doubt I'm wrong and don't know it yet :D) is to hold the saw WOT with the tip of the bar 3-4" away from the end of a log and observe the oil being flung off onto the log. Adjust it until you DON'T see that anymore, and then open it up just a tich more, until you just start to see it again. I think most saws come being turned wide open as a way to sell more bar oil lol. I think all the pro, and prosumer saws have adjustable oilers, but the homeowner ones generally don't. My bigger Stihls do, but my little ms170 doesn't. I run that simple check everytime I use my saws after periods of inactivity simply to check and see if the oiler is working or not before cutting. They ususally use a tank of oil per tank of gas, which IMO is a bit too much. But some tend to err on the side of caution. Depends on what type of wood you're cutting too. A few other variables like bar length etc too (which is one reason for adjustable oilers on bigger saws). While I don't really cut a lot of wood anymore, enough to really worry about excess oil consumtion anyway, I never noticed any excess bar and chain wear running my oilers turned down a little from factory when I used to cut alot to heat the house. It usually shows up early as excess heat and burning of the bar. Great way to diagnose that your oiler isn't oiling anymore.....

I'll have to look and see if my Husky has an adjustable oiler. If so, it is definitely turned up high. Perhaps as a way to sell oil but more likely to err on the safe side. Who knows how many people might use winter oil in the summer and maybe burn a bar.

Edit - got that backwards. Should have said summer oil in the winter.

If the bar oil didn't have tackifiers, it wouldn't be able to do its job at all, it would just fly off immediately. Which is why engine oil does such a poor job. I'm sure way lube has other additives to withstand the pressures and such of lubing bearing surfaces, but I'd be really curious to learn just what the differences are. From a practical standpoint though, I think bar oil would be the closest box store solution to an industrial problem there is. It's really cheap too.

If you ever run across anything that explains the difference from the perspective of a real expert please keep me in mind. I'd love to see it too.
 
I am definitely not an expert in oils, I just know that when I took the Sthil master tech training, the instructor kept coming back to the tackifiers that Sthil uses in their bar oils. With the limited use that my machines get, and the fact that they were well used when I got them, it's going to be Sthil light bar oil for me.......
 

Susquatch

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I am definitely not an expert in oils, I just know that when I took the Sthil master tech training, the instructor kept coming back to the tackifiers that Sthil uses in their bar oils. With the limited use that my machines get, and the fact that they were well used when I got them, it's going to be Sthil light bar oil for me.......

That's what I use too. Expensive but readily available everywhere in seasonal grades.

Sometimes you can find it on sale and I'll buy a few jugs of each grade when I see it.
 

Dan Dubeau

Ultra Member
To be completely honest when I say "really" curious, what I really mean is, I'd love to stumble across papers explaining the differences, linked on a forum by someone else, but I'm not "that" curious to go out on my own to try and find such info lol. My curiosity has limits, linked directly to laziness :D

Until then, I'll keep using way lube, but wouldn't hesitate to run bar oil if I had to in a pinch. Also just found it amusing why I prefer to call it way lube, not way oil, and bar oil, and not bar lube. Perhaps that's the only difference at all. One is a lube, and one in an oil......:D. OK, I'll stop now, and go out and do something today. lol
 

Susquatch

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I'd love to stumble across papers

I'm done looking for now too. I'd have to bored out of mind to do any more research on it than I already have. Which isn't likely to ever happen to me. So I don't really care how you find it. Just PLEASE keep me in mind if you ever do.
 

Dan Dubeau

Ultra Member
Will do. I'll make a post linking it here, if I ever stumble across anything related, as I'm sure there are many curious mind that would be interested too.
 

Dabbler

ersatz engineer
I'm also a proponent of 'any oil better than none' -- One of the lathes I'm rebuilding got close to the edge on that idea. The previous owner used ATF to lube the ways. It etched the paint (or stripped it right off) and There was very good evidence it didn't do its lubing job either. I think it is formulated to have good lubricity at high temperatures and lower pressures than ways provide.

When the bar oil came up, I (at first) went "huh?" but after reflection it sounded like a promising idea. I do have a concern it might be sulfated, however. Over the years I have talked with Shell and Boss technical people and they seemed to be quite forthright and helpful. Perhaps time for another call after I just clear the current round of projects.... Perhaps in 2028?
 

DPittman

Ultra Member
Premium Member
I can't help but give my 2 cents (and that's an over-inflated price)
My first opinion is that any oil is better than none and don't go sparingly.
I originally used straight 30w oil for way oil. I've have since added a bit of STP oil treatment to it to thicken it up and make it cling to surfaces better. I think it works.
In the old days before I could buy chain oil for motorcycles I used to add STP to whatever oil I was squirting on my chain and it greatly helped in it sticking on the chain. Now you can buy sticky chain lube. Talk about dirt clinging to chain and being abrasive ! But that's the life of a motorcycle chain.
 

Susquatch

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Now you can buy sticky chain lube. Talk about dirt clinging to chain and being abrasive ! But that's the life of a motorcycle chain.

If you think that's bad, you should see what a farm Impliment drive chain's life looks like! Wooaahhhhh!!! Even a dirt bikes chain life can't compare.
 

CWret

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As Combustible herbage said above - KBC has it at $29.96/gal or $127.48/ 5gal (Available in 10wt to 50wt). That’s where i sourced mine.
Chain bar oil or pneumatic tool oil (ie rock drill oil) are good substitutes for way oil because they have tackifier additives and also rust inhibitors. But I too way prefer way oil because (as Susq said above) it’s specifically designed for the ways and also it is in the same price range as chain bar oil. The advantage to chain bar oil is that it is available pretty much anywhere.
Chain bar oil ‘tackifiers’ are for improved cohesion and adhesion (basically cohesion is the force between the oil particles and adhesion is the force between the oil and the metal). IMO bar chain oil gives you things you don’t need. Try this: stick your finger in a drop of bar oil and as you remove your finger you’ll see a long spider web like strand of oil stretch out 4 to 6”, do the same thing with way oil and you get zero strand.

On a somewhat related item - for the movable jaws of my Gerardi vise i brush the sliding surfaces with anti-seize (Never-Seez) and then apply some way oil. There is lots of compressive pressures on the vise jaws that is trying to squeeze out the oil. This combo seems to work very well.
 
Try this: stick your finger in a drop of bar oil and as you remove your finger you’ll see a long spider web like strand of oil stretch out 4 to 6”, do the same thing with way oil and you get zero strand.
Not all bar oils are created equal. I won't use just any bar oil, as you say some are so stringy that I won't even use it in the saw. That being said, I only use Stihl light bar oil and this comes from sticking my fingers in a lot of oil. It breaks tension at roughly 3/8" , no thermometer in the shop but it's around 16 degrees.
My reason for using isn't because it was my first choice, but the best readily available option. I tried buying way oil at kms, thinking that they sell lathes and milling machines, pissed me off royally that they wouldn't even order in some. So, I went to the local machine shop, thinking that I would get some from him, but he just pointed to a bucket of 20wt hydraulic oil and said that is all I use on everything..... Stihl bar oil became the best available option and I highly doubt that my lathe knows the difference. On fact, it's probably never had it so good. ;)
 

CWret

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Not all bar oils are created equal.
Agreed.
Stihl bar oil became the best available option
Likely a good alternative. It is: really available; good quality name brand; inexpensive; and way better for the ways than no oil.

But this comment -
I only use Stihl light bar oil and this comes from sticking my fingers in a lot of oil. It breaks tension at roughly 3/8"
- was very puzzling. Not at all what i remembered or expected.

So I did a little experiment.
I got my jug of Stihl (medium weight) bar oil from the shed. I let it sit in the house for over 18 hours to get to room temperature. I put a bit of the oil in the cap of the jug, stuck in my finger, and then pulled it out.
I tried taking a picture of the strand of oil attached to my finger and quickly realized that was difficult. I also noticed, from the first picture attempts, that the shadow of the oil was more photogenic than the oil. Here’s my set up:
0857FA78-5992-450F-8801-00249676ACB3.jpeg
The oil strand / thread / fibre / filament or whatever you want to call it, was surprising quite long.
E0BC6F14-49FD-454F-9BF6-A5AB54C01F03.jpeg
931B2026-7A6D-4432-9312-0F236F8884DA.jpeg
I was having enough messy fun that I took a few more pics:
28F2FE41-8967-4EEA-A67E-E6909BB4AECA.jpeg
BC796A08-3169-4075-BA99-F5FD38342938.jpeg
E2AC08A5-632B-4F43-AE64-9C8255F4E502.jpeg
 

DPittman

Ultra Member
Premium Member
Agreed.

Likely a good alternative. It is: really available; good quality name brand; inexpensive; and way better for the ways than no oil.

But this comment -

- was very puzzling. Not at all what i remembered or expected.

So I did a little experiment.
I got my jug of Stihl (medium weight) bar oil from the shed. I let it sit in the house for over 18 hours to get to room temperature. I put a bit of the oil in the cap of the jug, stuck in my finger, and then pulled it out.
I tried taking a picture of the strand of oil attached to my finger and quickly realized that was difficult. I also noticed, from the first picture attempts, that the shadow of the oil was more photogenic than the oil. Here’s my set up:
View attachment 43729
The oil strand / thread / fibre / filament or whatever you want to call it, was surprising quite long.
View attachment 43735
View attachment 43736
I was having enough messy fun that I took a few more pics:
View attachment 43737
View attachment 43738
View attachment 43739
Well done experiment!
 
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