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Next lathe?

Marknb

Member
I’m already thinking about my next lathe, I currently have a Craftex cx709 that I like, but I now see where mass and rigidity come into play. Ive also realized change gears are going to get old fast for me.

I think I’m after something in the 14x40 range with at least a 1.5 inch spindle bore and relatively narrow headstock, gun smithing is my eventual goal.

Any recommendations on lathes to keep an eye out for? Everything seems to go quick when they pop up for sale, I‘m going to need to jump on something when I see it.

What about new lathes? I was looking into the modern C0636, but from the 14x40 threading thread it seems like changing gears is still necessary to get different threads depending on what you’re doing. Are there any reasonably priced new lathes that don’t require changing gears?

Thanks
 

Darren

Ultra Member
Premium Member
Quite a few 1440 class lathes still require change gear changes for different threads. Once you get up to 1660 class that seems to go away. My Standard Modern1660 threads all metric and standard threads without messing with change gears. Just something to keep in mind.
 

garageguy

Super User
Premium Member
I bought a Busy Bee 1236 lathe in about 1985 and threading is a breeze on it. The only time I need to change gears is switching from TPI to metric, and in all the time I've used it I have never had to cut a metric thread. If you are gunsmithing I would strongly advise getting a lathe that doesn't require gear changing. There are some older lathes out there like that but do lots of research. I think Harbour freight sells one aimed at the gunsmithing trade.
 

Shoprat

Well-Known Member
Had a Modern Tools 1440. Loved it. Now Big iron. I have to say buy as big as you can fit in. Contrary to what they say size matters. Lol.
 

Susquatch

Ultra Member
Administrator
Moderator
Premium Member
@Marknb - I think you will find that there are a LOT of members on here who do some gunsmithing. Some much more than others and at least one as a profession. In general however, this is not a gunsmithing forum. Therfore, many of us simply exchange ideas privately. You can search the forum and then message us (or start with me) and I'm sure you can get smithing advice going forward including what to look for in a lathe.

If you are gunsmithing I would strongly advise getting a lathe that doesn't require gear changing.

I cannot even begin to imagine why you would say that. Smithing does favour certain lathe features but IMHO, avoiding gear changes isn't one of them. I think we can safely say that most machinists would prefer to avoid gear changes, but I don't think smithing makes that a stronger or a weaker point. It's always an advantage period.

Unless of course you don't mind changing gears. I openly confess that I am weird and that I actually look forward to it! I love my lathe, I love threading, and I love changing gears. For me, it's an opportunity to enjoy my hobby.

I also like milling and turning manually. I have no interest in CNC. I like the feel of turning the handwheels in my hands and sensing how happy the tool and the metal are. I can easily adjust the feed rate for a better or faster cut on the fly and I am quite happy and confident in my ability to feed smoothly and consistently
 

DPittman

Ultra Member
Premium Member
I bought a Busy Bee 1236 lathe in about 1985 and threading is a breeze on it. The only time I need to change gears is switching from TPI to metric, and in all the time I've used it I have never had to cut a metric thread. If you are gunsmithing I would strongly advise getting a lathe that doesn't require gear changing. There are some older lathes out there like that but do lots of research. I think Harbour freight sells one aimed at the gunsmithing trade.
Yes I too had an older 12x36 asian lathe and the only gear swapping that had to be done was when you switched from imperial to metric. I've never understood why they went away from that style of gearbox setup.
 

Susquatch

Ultra Member
Administrator
Moderator
Premium Member
Yes I too had an older 12x36 asian lathe and the only gear swapping that had to be done was when you switched from imperial to metric. I've never understood why they went away from that style of gearbox setup.

I'm talking through my ears here (again), but I think it's just a practical reality of cost. As the number of possible threading pitches goes up, so does the complexity of the required gear box. With a change gear setup, the thread pitches are only limited by the number of change gears you have. And if you want something you don't have, you just get or make new gears.

I for one, am quite happy I have a modern lathe with change gears. I'd prefer that over one that couldn't cut a particular thread I wanted.
 

garageguy

Super User
Premium Member
I suggested a lathe that doesn't need gear changing because gunsmithing requires threading different things like receiver threads, muzzle brake threads etc. and not having to change gears every time would ,I think, be nice, no? If you enjoy changing gears that's great, but if the OP is buying a lathe anyhow , why not get one that makes the job quicker and easier. The OP did not say that he liked changing gears.
 

garageguy

Super User
Premium Member
I had to cut a 24tpi thread a couple days ago. All I had to do was shift one lever to engage the lead screw, shift 2 more for the gear box setting and away I went. Cut a 3/8 long 24tpi thread in a few minutes , quick and easy.
 

garageguy

Super User
Premium Member
LOL I spent 45 yrs up to my elbows in grease and changing greasy lathe gears when I just want to cut a quick thread is not my idea of fun. Maybe I'm just getting too grumpy in my old age!
 

Marknb

Member
Thanks for the comments, I appreciate all the input. A few bits to ponder.

Mainly I want to thread 1 1/16 x16 and 5/8x24, and I don’t want to be switching gears every time i do a barrel.

I appreciate some folks enjoy every moment of garage time, I‘m still at the point where every moment in the garage needs to be (semi) productive.

I was hoping for an easy answer, doesn’t seem that’s quite the case.

thanks
 

YotaBota

Mike
Premium Member
Sounds like you already know what you want in a machine. Now comes the tough part, finding one your happy spending the $ to get it.

Keep an eye on govdeals.com, a lot of times machines come up out east state side that might fit your needs and budget if you have time to wait.

All the best in your search.
 

DPittman

Ultra Member
Premium Member
Thanks for the comments, I appreciate all the input. A few bits to ponder.

Mainly I want to thread 1 1/16 x16 and 5/8x24, and I don’t want to be switching gears every time i do a barrel.

I appreciate some folks enjoy every moment of garage time, I‘m still at the point where every moment in the garage needs to be (semi) productive.

I was hoping for an easy answer, doesn’t seem that’s quite the case.

thanks
Take a look at each individual lathe threading chart. Here is a picture of a PM 12x36 ultra precision lathe that shows both a 16 and 24 tpi thread can be cut with a simple lever change. This said lathe has what I call "old fashioned" lever gearbox like I had on my old 12x36 lathe. Many new lathes have the easier knob controlled gear box but most will require some gear swapping to be done. Thread-panel.jpg
 

Finhead

Member
Take a look at each individual lathe threading chart. Here is a picture of a PM 12x36 ultra precision lathe that shows both a 16 and 24 tpi thread can be cut with a simple lever change. This said lathe has what I call "old fashioned" lever gearbox like I had on my old 12x36 lathe. Many new lathes have the easier knob controlled gear box but most will require some gear swapping to be done.View attachment 34290

I would post links/pics but I'm too new. lol
But the King Canada KC=1236CL (12x36) as well as the Craftex CX707 (12x36) has the identical thread chart, just a dial switch no need for a gear change.
 

DPittman

Ultra Member
Premium Member
I would post links/pics but I'm too new. lol
But the King Canada KC=1236CL (12x36) as well as the Craftex CX707 (12x36) has the identical thread chart, just a dial switch no need for a gear change.
Oh I didn't look specifically at those lathes but have seen some variations. That's very good I formation to know.
 

Susquatch

Ultra Member
Administrator
Moderator
Premium Member
I suggested a lathe that doesn't need gear changing because gunsmithing requires threading different things like receiver threads, muzzle brake threads etc. and not having to change gears every time would ,I think, be nice, no? If you enjoy changing gears that's great, but if the OP is buying a lathe anyhow , why not get one that makes the job quicker and easier. The OP did not say that he liked changing gears.

My add about my own wishes was just expressing my preferences. Only the beginning of my post was about the gunsmithing question.

You might not know that gunsmithing was my first machining love. It might be my last too. We will see.

My question on your post was really only about your comment that "If you are gunsmithing I would strongly advise getting a lathe that doesn't require gear changing."

I just don't see why gunsmithing dictates the need to avoid changing gears any more than other areas of interest.

Perhaps it would have been better if you had simply said "I strongly advise getting a lathe that doesn't require gear changing." At that point I would have only said "fair enough, each to their own. We can agree to disagree". I'm a masochist and you are not.

I suppose for those who believe that gunsmithing is only about threading barrels and muzzle brakes, that might be true. But smithing involves many many many other activities, the vast majority of which don't involve threading on a lathe at all. I'd also submit that the actual barrel threading process itself is trivial compared to the setup and other work that needs to be done before a threading tool even touches the work. By the same token, changing gears prior to threading a barrel at either end is trivial by comparison too.

That said...... And this is important. Although I have change gears on my lathe, I also have 16 different positions of different gear ratios that can be selected internally. In other words I can select 16 times the number of gear combinations. And furthermore, if that didn't cover all the bases, I can make or buy another gear to get 16 more combinations.

The vast majority of standard thread pitches can be cut on my lathe without changing gears. I think (but I'm not positive) that this is true of most lathes with quick change gear boxes and a pair of gears that can be changed on the back of the headstock. What gears do for you is totally escape the limitations of a gear box with a fixed set of internal gears. There is no such thing as a thread pitch I cannot cut. The same cannot be said for a lathe without change gears. (Unless it has els or some other continuously variable leade screw ratio mechanism.)

But basically, I was only wondering why you thought smithing dictated a higher need than other interests to avoid a lathe with a change gear setup. You have answered that but I respectfully disagree.

I had to cut a 24tpi thread a couple days ago. All I had to do was shift one lever to engage the lead screw, shift 2 more for the gear box setting and away I went. Cut a 3/8 long 24tpi thread in a few minutes , quick and easy.

I can do the same.

I think there is a common misconception that modern lathes with change gears require a gear change for every thread pitch there is. That was certainly the case for the early lathes and may be true for some of the newer basic lathes too. But it is not the case for the many of the newer change gear lathes. Newer lathes like mine have both change gears AND a quick change gear box. Although that is no ELS, it does give you access to every single thread pitch that exists as opposed to just the ones that the manufacture thought were the most popular.

Edit - I didn't see @DPittman's post on this same issue. If I had, it would have saved my thumb some exercise.

Mainly I want to thread 1 1/16 x16 and 5/8x24, and I don’t want to be switching gears every time i do a barrel.

Sounds like a Remington with a muzzle brake.

I have change gears, but switching between 16 and 24 tpi does not require changing gears. It is as simple as flipping a lever.

At the risk of repetition, if you think that changing gears is a hassle whenever you want to switch between 16 and 24 tpi, wait until you do the setup required to do that. You will quickly find yourself wishing that everything was as easy as changing gears.

For me, dialing in a barrel so its axis is as perfectly concentric with the axis of my spindle, timing (or clocking) the components so they are both aesthetically and functionally perfect, setting my headspace perfectly, eliminating microscopic burrs, etc etc etc are all labours of love. Changing a pair of gears, for those few times when it is required, is total peanuts in the big picture of all that work. Put another way, almost anyone can change gears but you have to be a bit of a perfectionist to chamber a barrel in a way that is superior to a factory setup.

On the other hand, if all you are doing is other non-smithing threading, you might prefer a lathe without change gears..... (just poking fun with that one).
 
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DPittman

Ultra Member
Premium Member
Oh I didn't look specifically at those lathes but have seen some variations. That's very good I formation to know.
For interest sake....here is threading g chart for knob/dial gear box PM12x36 lathe. Threads under 16 tpi require a gear swap from those 16 and above. Still not bad as there is a good range of threads in each range.

Screenshot_20230507-205220_Acrobat for Samsung.jpg
 
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