Tomc938
Ultra Member
I see tons! Amazing results on rust removal.
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New to me colchester lathe
- Thread starter quitereal
- Start date
skippyelwell
Super User
Great idea for the way wipers.
The lathe looks to be coming along very nicely. I would not worry about some wear in a few spots, let's be honest, this unit was made in 1963. While it would be nice to be "old, new, stock, still in the box", it's not. It likely got 50+ years of use, done who knows how many turn of the spindle, if that was converted to miles traveled, well who knows!
I am always looking at way wipers, and can not decide if they should be soft, firm, or hard. If soft, will they pickup, hold shavings/grit and cause more wear, but have the give to not push hard on the ways, forcing shavings and grit to cause wear. A firm/hard wiper pushs stuff off/away but can get shavings, grit stuck in/under them, causing wear.
So I try to bush/wipe ways often, remove wipers, clean/change/replace as needed. Flood ways with oil while wipers are off, move carriage back and forth to flush out anything that's got past the wipers. In a worst case, remove carrage/saddle to clean/remove buildup and shavings/ grit. It seems there is always some in there. Likely a used lathe/mill etc, should be checked anyway. A few new units have been found with "extra" material by some.
I am always looking at way wipers, and can not decide if they should be soft, firm, or hard. If soft, will they pickup, hold shavings/grit and cause more wear, but have the give to not push hard on the ways, forcing shavings and grit to cause wear. A firm/hard wiper pushs stuff off/away but can get shavings, grit stuck in/under them, causing wear.
So I try to bush/wipe ways often, remove wipers, clean/change/replace as needed. Flood ways with oil while wipers are off, move carriage back and forth to flush out anything that's got past the wipers. In a worst case, remove carrage/saddle to clean/remove buildup and shavings/ grit. It seems there is always some in there. Likely a used lathe/mill etc, should be checked anyway. A few new units have been found with "extra" material by some.
Chipper5783
Super User
“I should be able to start on electrical - my thoughts on that atm are maybe a new contactor needed - the thermal overloads will see twice the current at half the voltage...”
I’ve had good success repairing the contactors on my old machines (late ‘50s to early’70s). I think of them like those wooden block puzzles - you can take them apart, but there is a trick to it (you seem to be the sort that likes a challenge). Of course take pictures, label everything, make yourself a wiring diagram, mark the wires etc.
My Huron mill had sat outside for a while, there was half a litre of water in the motor (full to the level of the bearings), the contractors looked awful (2 reversing contractors, electric clutch and break controls, coolant pump, reduced voltage controls, controls for the rapid feeds with two sets of buttons for front or side operation = a lot of wires, terminal strips and control elements). I went one device at a time, one wire at a time and had a good result.
On my surface grinder I did a voltage change and had the same issue of needing to resize the thermal overloads on 4 motors. Three of the motors there was enough adjustment to dial up the setting, but one needed a higher current overload block (naturally I tried it, but the hydraulic pump would trip after a minute or two). I don’t recall the brand (machine from Eastern Europe) - eBay to the rescue.
My air compressor uses a SquareD contactor - I’ve had that one apart to clean it’s contacts.
The point being that the electrics on your lathe may not a complete write off.
I’ve had good success repairing the contactors on my old machines (late ‘50s to early’70s). I think of them like those wooden block puzzles - you can take them apart, but there is a trick to it (you seem to be the sort that likes a challenge). Of course take pictures, label everything, make yourself a wiring diagram, mark the wires etc.
My Huron mill had sat outside for a while, there was half a litre of water in the motor (full to the level of the bearings), the contractors looked awful (2 reversing contractors, electric clutch and break controls, coolant pump, reduced voltage controls, controls for the rapid feeds with two sets of buttons for front or side operation = a lot of wires, terminal strips and control elements). I went one device at a time, one wire at a time and had a good result.
On my surface grinder I did a voltage change and had the same issue of needing to resize the thermal overloads on 4 motors. Three of the motors there was enough adjustment to dial up the setting, but one needed a higher current overload block (naturally I tried it, but the hydraulic pump would trip after a minute or two). I don’t recall the brand (machine from Eastern Europe) - eBay to the rescue.
My air compressor uses a SquareD contactor - I’ve had that one apart to clean it’s contacts.
The point being that the electrics on your lathe may not a complete write off.
quitereal
Andy
Cleaned the compound and toolpost
Check out the factory scraping under there
So pretty
Slap it back on, its starting to look deadly
Ok on to the tailstock, got it free and it felt good so i didnt do a full teardown. Also the live center cleaned up nicely
Ill have a peek in the gearbox and headstock next.
Check out the factory scraping under there
So pretty
Slap it back on, its starting to look deadly
Ok on to the tailstock, got it free and it felt good so i didnt do a full teardown. Also the live center cleaned up nicely
Ill have a peek in the gearbox and headstock next.
quitereal
Andy
And lastly I had a look at the electrical. Ok first I give you exhibit A which led me to believe it was setup for 440v.
Very good lets have a look at the motor
Alright lets crack the wiring box. Oh look a little envelope
Yes, yes,
What is this?! There are B1-C2,A1-B2, and C1-A2 jumpers, which tells me it was wired for 220v! I thought it was common courtesy to update the machine plate with a voltage change. But I believe this means the contactor should be good to go and i need only apply 3phase 220v to run it. Can someone confirm this? Either way I think Ill try it tomorrow.
I did have a peek at the contactor
Very good lets have a look at the motor
Alright lets crack the wiring box. Oh look a little envelope
Yes, yes,
What is this?! There are B1-C2,A1-B2, and C1-A2 jumpers, which tells me it was wired for 220v! I thought it was common courtesy to update the machine plate with a voltage change. But I believe this means the contactor should be good to go and i need only apply 3phase 220v to run it. Can someone confirm this? Either way I think Ill try it tomorrow.
I did have a peek at the contactor
TorontoBuilder
Sapientia et Doctrina Stabilitas
Yep. I found the exact same thing when I looked into my chipmaster and motor. But I changed out the original motor to use a VFD. I've been debating refurbishing the original motor. Its same output but twice as large as the new one
Just change the oil, run it for a bit till the oil warms up, and change again. No diesel oil. I doubt a diesel bath would hurt it, but for the cost of an oil change why bother? IMO, warming the oil up before changing would have a better cleaning effect than diesel would.
If you really want a diesel rinse, don't run it on the diesel, just rinse.
Chipper5783
Super User
I agree with Susq - not diesel (it won’t destroy it or anything). The prescribed lube is never a bad thing. I have also used kerosene flush for cleaning gear boxes - both to flush and blasting around all the non-wetted surfaces (easy to get, not expensive, goes through the solvent sprayer better than lube oil). That was on the Huron main gear box that had some sort of black coating throughout (you gearbox looks relatively good).
TorontoBuilder
Sapientia et Doctrina Stabilitas
kerosene worked great in grinder spindle so +1
Dabbler
ersatz engineer
The unspoken thing about heastocks that share oil with the bearings is clean, clean, clean. Clean out any junk and old oil so you could eat off the insides. Then add lube. it can be anything cheap. If you go kerosene, then i agree to not rotate the bearings with kerosene. The reason is that there will be microparticles suspended in the oil in the bearings. as you dilute this oil, they are no longer suspended in the oil, and will cling to the bearing surfaces. This makes them harder to rinse out, not easier. There are too many nooks and crannies for the particles to cling to.
however - it is a great idea to flush the gears with varsol, naptha, or diesel. this, along with a tooth brush, can help free any deposited crud on the faces and teeth of the gears. It just isn't so good for the bearings, with all the hidden corners.
I try to use a similar viscosity to what is there to flush a headstock. After installing a bunch of cheap magnets in the bottom pan, I add new oil and run it with no chuck (no load) for a little bit, and check the oil. If there are particles clinging to the magnets, then careful monitoring is needed to get the bearings completely clean. (usually another flush with oil) I always use clear ISO 32 hydraulic oil, so it is easy to spot the build up. (and it is cheap-ish)
I hope this helps.
however - it is a great idea to flush the gears with varsol, naptha, or diesel. this, along with a tooth brush, can help free any deposited crud on the faces and teeth of the gears. It just isn't so good for the bearings, with all the hidden corners.
I try to use a similar viscosity to what is there to flush a headstock. After installing a bunch of cheap magnets in the bottom pan, I add new oil and run it with no chuck (no load) for a little bit, and check the oil. If there are particles clinging to the magnets, then careful monitoring is needed to get the bearings completely clean. (usually another flush with oil) I always use clear ISO 32 hydraulic oil, so it is easy to spot the build up. (and it is cheap-ish)
I hope this helps.
quitereal
Andy
The thread dial is completely seized patiently waiting to be looked at. Good point with the magnet, Ill do that.
quitereal
Andy
Now you have me paranoid about particles. I was about to send it with the old oil for a bit, it looked not terrible, but getting right in there with an eyeball there was small particles in there, so Ill drain and flush a bit before new oil before I run it. Ya I got iso32 on tap.
quitereal
Andy
Send it? Or no?
Ok I go to put a plug on for to run it, and come across this
Im no professional mind you, but something aint copacetic there. Fished through the armor is 3 16awg wires. Melted little whaddya callit. But 16 gauge? Wtf?
I went to the big city and grabbed some 10/4 getting ready to get back to putting a plug on and running it, but it has me wondering what is going on - did someone half ass a voltage change? Is the contactor for 220 or 440? Theres not much for markings on the contactor - can a guy check the resistance to see which heaters it has?
Or just send it, if it kicks out ya have the wrong ones?
I have other misc stuff to do before that, so opinions on wtf is going on welcomed.
Ok I go to put a plug on for to run it, and come across this
Im no professional mind you, but something aint copacetic there. Fished through the armor is 3 16awg wires. Melted little whaddya callit. But 16 gauge? Wtf?
Or just send it, if it kicks out ya have the wrong ones?
I have other misc stuff to do before that, so opinions on wtf is going on welcomed.
quitereal
Andy
I got particles for days and burrs on a couple of me hardened and ground gears, those are just particles looking to pounce
This may be a 3 day headstock aenema. Diesel for me is cheaper than kerosene, what i did on the mill with a drill pump is circulate clean diesel through the gearbox over a paint filter and magnets and back for a while. Id kinda like to file those gears and get rid of most of that sediment before even running. The particles are after me!
There was chips and slivers with a magnet.
This may be a 3 day headstock aenema. Diesel for me is cheaper than kerosene, what i did on the mill with a drill pump is circulate clean diesel through the gearbox over a paint filter and magnets and back for a while. Id kinda like to file those gears and get rid of most of that sediment before even running. The particles are after me!
There was chips and slivers with a magnet.