New to me Ammco 7" Metal shaper

[gerritv]

Manually turning is done by handwheel on the final pulley shaft. RTFM

 

[Susquatch]

Surely you are not suggesting that you don't have a way to operate your shaper manually?

Sort of Mickey. I don't have a crank. I have to turn the pulley or pull on a belt manually.

Yes, I am aware of the need to check the stroke before turning on the power.

My comment in my earlier post was just acknowledging what a PIA pulling belts and turning pulleys is. My AMMCO has no crank, so I'm thinking of adding a hand crank to the drive pulley so it can be more easily turned by hand.

 

[trevj]

Surely you are not suggesting that you don't have a way to operate your shaper manually? A shaper MUST have a way to run through a complete cycle manually (slowly and carefully) before you apply power whenever you do a new set up. Otherwise you at least may not have the tool travel and stroke length correctly set, and worse, may run the tool head back into the column, causing great weeping and gnashing of teeth. Reading backwards, I see someone suggested pulling on the belt. No, you need a proper crank handle. More often than not on a small shaper this will also fit the Ram clamp and stroke positioner.

That's exactly why the wheel on the end of the second stage driven pulleys (that's the knob that they built the belt Guard around, so as to leave it accessible!), is knurled, so you can get a good grip to cycle the shaper through it's stroke, before you apply power and break something more expensive than your heart! LOL!

 

[trevj]

Always a possibility. But one I'd like to avoid.



Good eye! I don't think I could have noticed that from a photo. But when you are looking at it in person, it's rather obvious. I noticed that when I first held it in place. To hit the 4 pads as much as possible, I have to pull the pulley inward. It looks like there is enough room on the shaft to hit the drive pulley. I have not looked yet, but I might also be able to push the drive pulley out a bit too. Last, but not least, the motor pulley can be reversed. Lots of ways to get there.

Since there are only 3 speeds, I am also thinking about a small 3 phase motor and a cheaper VFD. Or maybe a DC motor and speed control.



The motor I have is reversable.

I might also mount a drive crank so I can operate it manually.

If the pulley isn't too munged up, you may be able to simply remove and replace it, or just relocate it. Small drive pulleys, are cheap as chips!

Reversible is good! But checking if it needs reversing 'before' you bolt it up, is even better!

I don't think you are really going to get value out of 3 Phase, and a VFD. Shapers is a slow motion (and quite relaxing to watch run!) process, and it really isn't a place where having infinite control over stroke speed, is any real benefit

 

[mickeyf]

Shapers is a slow motion

Actually shapers are more often than not run too slowly. If you actually calculate the material cutting speed and FPM etc, they can be quite ...um, brisk. At least if they are seriously earning their keep in a for-profit-not-hobby shop.

 

[Susquatch]

I don't think you are really going to get value out of 3 Phase, and a VFD. Shapers is a slow motion (and quite relaxing to watch run!) process, and it really isn't a place where having infinite control over stroke speed, is any real benefit

There is much more to the value of a VFD than variable speed.

I especially love the smoothness of SLV mode. But I think that smooth adjustable accel and decel are important too - especially so in a small inertia based machine. I'd also guess that speeds close to zero might be an excellent way to cycle the machine to test clearances and adjustments.

We will see what will be as I move forward on this journey.

 

[Susquatch]

Manually turning is done by handwheel on the final pulley shaft. RTFM

My manual, as well as the one you provided, say nothing about this Gerrit. They are not big manuals, but I do read fast, so maybe I missed it.

It seemed obvious to me that the best way to move the Ram is by manually turning the input pulley at the back of the machine. All the leverages are correct that way.

 

[Bandit]

I use the hand wheel to set stroke, the most important (to me) is making sure there is clearance on the back stroke. Making sure the head is not hitting anything, and giving room for the clapper to return to home position before starting cut. I also like to confirm the over stroke? past the work piece, not a lot of wasted stroke. Therefore somewhat faster to the next cut, relative as it is a shaper. It also allows me to check for resistance of mechanism, and sometimes results in a reset up of work piece and cutters/holders/angles and so on.
But then a trial run though with many machines is the norm for a lot of us.

 

[Downwindtracker2]

My little 6" shop made shaper project wasn't made with one, he had just exposed sheaves. I bolted a 160mm hand wheel to the 3step sheave. A bigger one would have been nicer but that was the size of the one pulled off a metric machine from work. I picked it out of the scrape bin. A 10" hand wheel would have been better but that one was free. At work the old nail machines had to be cycled for set up by hand. They had big hand wheels/ flywheels. It's common design feature of old machines.

 

[gerritv]

The handwheel is here, direct on the main shaft.

 

[Susquatch]

I missed an important photo.

Extracting the shaper from my truck box with forks on my loader tractor!



The shaper is screwed down to the 2x4 cross boards that span the forks.

 

[trevj]

I missed an important photo.

Extracting the shaper from my truck box with forks on my loader tractor!

View attachment 63276

The shaper is screwed down to the 2x4 cross boards that span the forks.

That seems like a lot of extra work, given that I unloaded mine from a Chrysler mini-van, by myself.And humped it down the stairs...

Mine had a motor attached... LOL!

BUT!... You got the Vise with it! YAHOO!

 

[Susquatch]

And humped it down the stairs...

Pervert.

Ya, I discovered afterward that I could lift it manually too. But why take chances when it's a glorious chance to use my loader tractor!

 

[historicalarms]

Ya, I discovered afterward that I could lift it manually too.

"discovering that i could lift it" led to me haveing to use a front end loader to even move a battery now with my back the way it is....keep on using your forks!!!!

 

[Dan Dubeau]

When I bought my shaper he showed up with it on a flat bed with a Hiab. Picked it off, and swung it right inside the garage door on a heavy duty wheeled frame. I've wanted one of those ever since

I've also done my share of stupid lifting stuff I shouldn't just because I can. A couple of my next projects will be devices to keep me from doing that anymore.....

 

[Downwindtracker2]

It amazing what a certain level of stupidity can do. I just finished moving my 800# surface grinder from the middle of the shed to a wall with a 3' pry bar, a couple of 2x4s and two strips of UHMW .

 

[Susquatch]

It amazing what a certain level of stupidity can do. I just finished moving my 800# surface grinder from the middle of the shed to a wall with a 3' pry bar, a couple of 2x4s and two strips of UHMW .

Colour me stupid too......

That's pretty much SOP around here. I'm almost always alone. I do what I gotta do. At my age time is meaningless. I routinely get down on my hands and knees and do the crow-bar dance from one place to another as warranted. Yes, I have an engine hoist and a 4 ton gantry crane too. But sometimes a bar and a few blocks is actually easier and safer.

 

[Susquatch]

Looks like that 1/2 horse motor isn't gunna work after all. It's fried internally. Thank God, I plugged it in before I drilled any holes in the shaper bracket. Magic smoke filled the air. Turns out the bearings are toast too.

No biggie, it was a free bee. I'll save the mount and the pulley, and the rest will go to the land fill. It's not even worth investigating.

Guess I'm on the hunt for another motor again......

 

[trevj]

Looks like that 1/2 horse motor isn't gunna work after all. It's fried internally. Thank God, I plugged it in before I drilled any holes in the shaper bracket. Magic smoke filled the air. Turns out the bearings are toast too.

No biggie, it was a free bee. I'll save the mount and the pulley, and the rest will go to the land fill. It's not even worth investigating.

Guess I'm on the hunt for another motor again......

Told ya to test before installing! LOL!

 

[trevj]

Actually shapers are more often than not run too slowly. If you actually calculate the material cutting speed and FPM etc, they can be quite ...um, brisk. At least if they are seriously earning their keep in a for-profit-not-hobby shop.

If you start to understand the so-called 'optimum' speeds and feeds, take a note that they are designed for a commercial shop to strike the balance between money spent, and money earned, not about making the best possible finishes, or the least risky set-ups.

Shapers in a Hobby environment, have no need to be run balls-to-the-wall, and in truth, trying to push the speeds and feed up to what is considered commercially viable, has long since proven to be a money-loser for most commercial shops. Which is to say, there is a reason they claim that you can make anything with a Shaper, except a living!

Slower cuts put less wear on the machinery and tooling (as cheap as it is, it's kinda nice to preserve it for use again later).

And, you don't have to ensure it is all bolted down to the Continental Shield in order to be sure it will still be sitting in the same corner of the shop when done...

If ya gots a Missus, ask her if slow, comfortable and smooth is alright, vs. trying to ride a jackhammer every time!

Seriously, slow is OK. I pretty much guarantee that you will spend more time obsessing over the set-up and planning, of the cut, than you will actually cutting. As much as I am a fan of time efficiency, this is not a place to rush things. Nor is it the tool that you would pick, if time, truly, was of the essence.