New lathe choices in Canada

Chipper5783

Well-Known Member
Some makers / vendors describe a lathe by center height (common in the UK). I'm more familiar with describing the lathe by swing over the main portion of the bed (in the link provided it would be perhaps an 18" swing). There are some small heavy pattern machines around, though perhaps none still in production (I've an 11"x 24 swing S&B which is ~2700 lbs), Holbrook, CAV, 10EE - and numerous are very robust.
 

ShawnR

Ultra Member
Premium Member
LMAO...imagine driving to Ohio thinking you are the proud new owner of a heavy duty 9 "lathe only to find you bought an 18' or 16" as Robin mentions.... and then only 27" long....? Sounds like we are making pylons to me. Trying to picture the applications, and I am sure there are lots, but from my limited experience, and days in the paper mill, big lathes just get longer.
Thanks for the input. That explains the weight.
 

RobinHood

Ultra Member
Premium Member
Yup, I agree on the center height bit. That would be more plausible. The manual states a swing of 17” over the bed so a ~9” center height seems fair enough, depending where one puts the measuring tape.
 

Brent H

Ultra Member
Yep! That was 2019 - probably going to be there at some point when I get back next week - tis the T-Bay time of year!
 

ShawnR

Ultra Member
Premium Member
For those of you with a more varied level of exposure than me, where would you put this lathe on a scale with the King Canada, or Craftex? The price, even in US dollars, is in the same ball park but PM has a great reputation. It was mentioned earlier in this thread. If I can swing getting it over the border, I might be looking at it. They are not in stock now but expected next month, according to an email from them.

https://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/pm-1236/
 

DPittman

Ultra Member
Premium Member
For those of you with a more varied level of exposure than me, where would you put this lathe on a scale with the King Canada, or Craftex? The price, even in US dollars, is in the same ball park but PM has a great reputation. It was mentioned earlier in this thread. If I can swing getting it over the border, I might be looking at it. They are not in stock now but expected next month, according to an email from them.

https://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/pm-1236/
I'm pretty sure the small PM lathes are identical to the Craftex lathes. The bigger ones "may" have small electrical component improvements but they are certainly no worse. IF I could buy a PM lathe for similar money as the Craftex I would choose the PM lathe over the BusyBee option for service and parts alone. I suspect the dollar exchange and freight will make the PM lathe a hefty premium over the Craftex or King. That lathe you linked to appears in my dreams along with other bombshells. LOL
 

boilerhouse

Ultra Member
The PM lathe linked weighs 1000 lbs, and the 12x36 King weighs 700 lbs, so that would certainly tip the scales for me with all else being equal. I don't know about the Craftex as I didn't check the specs. PM seems to be a great dealer, but I wold find it a real hassle dealing with a border. If you proceed. let us know how it worked out. If it turns out to be a near seamless process, I might be interested in their Taiwan 13x40.
 

John Conroy

member
Premium Member
I bought a PM932 mill from Precision Matthews a few years ago. I have since replaced it with a bigger knee mill but my purchase from PM was pretty seamless. They shipped it to Edmonton for the same cost as they charge to ship in the USA and handled the customs brokerage for me. It arrived at the local Day and Ross depot where it was loaded onto my trailer with a forklift. There were no unexpected charges. Their prices have gone up quite a bit since then due to the import duty placed on Chinese machines by the Trump government.

PM32 mill invoice.jpeg
 

CalgaryPT

Ultra Member
Vendor
Premium Member
Standard Modern (SM) was/is a Canadian lathe manufacturer in the GTA. Modern Tool is a machinery dealer. They have a house brand called “Modern”. Unless you get a used Standard Modern machine from Modern Tool, the machines are not one and the same. Sorry sounds confusing, I know.

Yup, KBC sells the SM machines. Not sure if they are still made in Canada, but from what I have seen at KBC, still seem very good quality.
You explained that really well. Thanks. Always wondered....
 

Dabbler

ersatz engineer
+1 on the extra weight. I hope he told you if the model number ends in a "T" then it is a higher quality machine (made in Taiwan)...
 

ShawnR

Ultra Member
Premium Member
In the earlier comments, it was mentioned about the "Taiwan " upgrades but in looking at the Precision Matthews site, those words are used to describe the "Ultra Precision" model, not this one. In another place they mention taper bearings but I think all of these lathes have taper spindle bearings so that is why I thought I would verify. I knew some here had PM experience. The company has a solid reputation. But in the end, if it is the same lathe, just with a more respected name, then might be better to stay in Canada. Glad to her John had such a good experience with them, even over the border. I did not look at the weights. Mmmmm...:oops:

Thanks for the reminder about Trumps charges. I recently repaired a friends HAAS CNC. I ordered a power supply board from the company that made the original for HAAS and when it came in, I saw the effects. The board was $32 US and ended up being $150 Canadian after everyone got their piece of the import. Still a lot cheaper than the HAAS $800 quoted for the replacement board, The board was not a slide in but I modified the old board to act as a carrier. It worked out well and he was happy.

From PM site. Not the same lathe linked above....

PM-1340GT 13″x40″ Ultra Precision Lathe
Main Features Of This Machine:
  • Extremely High Quality Lathe, meant for very high precision work, and suitable for every day use. Perfect for the professional user who is looking for the best available
  • 100% Made in Taiwan, no shortcuts taken, built to a very high level of quality
  • Excellent machine for Gunsmithing use, Very Short Spindle, Ultra High Precision
  • Available in either Single or 3 Phase power, to match the user’s needs
  • High Precision, Hardened and Ground gears throughout headstock, which leads to extremely smooth and quiet running for a geared head lathe, and much longer life (Suitable for daily, professional use)
  • Leadscrews Are True Inch Pitch Screws (Not Metric Conversions Like Many), 10 Threads Per Inch (.100” Per Turn)
  • Backed by an industry leading 5 year warranty

I live near the Pigeon River border crossing. If the borders were open, I would not hesitate. We have a depot on the other side that stuff is/was often shipped to. But having said that, stuff is still going back and forth so I was going to look into it. I think crossing over, I would have to self isolate for 14 days, but I would have a new lathe so that would be no problem....:D
 

ShawnR

Ultra Member
Premium Member
[QUOTE="DPittman, post: 39822, member: 38"...... That lathe you linked to appears in my dreams along with other bombshells. LOL[/QUOTE]

ok, that is funny!

Thanks for the input
 

kevin.decelles

Jack of all trades -- Master of none
Premium Member
I was in a similar position in 2018..... the choice to start was the Busy Bee/Grizzly/King/Modern/PM

I ended up going Modern out of Calgary C0636A (14x40) which is essentially (to the part #) identical to the PM-1440E-LB. Price was nearly identical (after factoring exchange) but the lynch pin was buying local. Free delivery.... Now, I've never needed parts and have never been back to Modern, but I suspect if I ever need something they will probably be there to help.

That said, I wouldn't have hesitated to (at the time pre-covid) to purchase from PM. I only went Modern after input from members here, and after attending a forum meet-up which demystified the place for me. I am quite hesitant about just popping into places that don't typically deal with joe-hobbyist. I never get a good vibe. This would go for a lot of the non-mainstream places mentioned on the forum (Thomas skinner......) The meet up @ Modern made it easier....... which is why vendors should follow/read this forum because it's $$$$. I bet that HH Roberts machinery sold 10 of thos NOS Bison/Atlas chucks based on input from this group in the last 18 months....

I downloaded the manual from PM. Head and shoulders better than the factory one.
 

ShawnR

Ultra Member
Premium Member
Thanks Kevin. A 1440 is bigger than what I wanted to get into. I had a chance to bid on a local KC 1440 but quit early. It looked good, lightly used, from the local college automotive shop. It ended up selling for $3800. In hindsight, I should have kept bidding, but at the time, thinking it was not really what I wanted. I am still of that mindset, generally. The YUWE 1440 we discussed earlier looks appealing and got me considering a 1440 again, and the rave reviews that Modern has been given here on this site by members brought me to it. I spoke briefly with the Ontario salesman for the Modern 14x40 but he was hard to talk to. He gave me a brief est of $8500 but was busy running somewhere. I then I sent an email, as he requested, asking for more info, then an actual quote request but still have not heard anything. I assume that one, I have to go through the Ontario guy and two shipping will be 500-1000. Maybe I should call the Calgary store. If I could go to a store, and see one, and get the service that it sounds like you all have gotten, I might be swayed but not so right now. The YUWE looks good at 6900 but hard to compare all of these machines from internet photos. Side by side would be sweet!

Input here has been great but I need to go reread it again. Basically, the machines are all very very similar ..... but slightly different. And the majority come back to a discussion on 1440's. Modern's 1136 just does not grab me. I have a 1018 so not enough of a gain and if I understand correctly, the spindle speeds are belt changes, a step backwards, imho. I think I mentioned it earlier so just going in circles now. KC has the features I want in the 1236 but once I started looking at these other ones, it just is not as appealing, so damned if I do and damned if I don't! The PM seems to have it all in a 1236, and with a solid reputation. They sent me a quote today, considering all of President Trumps extra charges but it is some format I cannot open so I need to wait till they are open tomorrow to see it in a .pdf. There is a local company that started up, bringing stuff across the border, so I may be able to swing the PM, but not sure if they are doing 1200 lb machinery. Their website only mentions weights up to 75lbs and it almost looks like I have to do a pick up request, as in the parcel is there now, to find out (where is that head banging on wall icon?..! ) I confirmed with a friend who works for CBSA. He said I cannot go over the border.

So, in the meantime, I wait. Not like I am not using one. I am growing fond of my little guy but don't change speeds (carriage feed) much. I made a tailstock die holder last week and ! have been using it lots for threads. It works great! If I had the quick change box, I would have done/practiced single point threading. And as @RobinHood pointed out, I was pushing the limits (of my chuck) with my pipe project, but I learned from that. I don't forsee many more of those size projects. There is a KC1236 locally that I tried to talk the fella into selling. His last text to me was "maybe in the near future" so if it came to that, and he was fairly priced, I would jump on that, even if it is a KC. The 1236 quick change box uses levers where most of the 1440's have knobs there. I don't know if this reflects the method of gear selection or just user inteface. Most of the later models have knobs there now. No rush. Patience usually pays off if balanced with good research. I am still in the research phase. ;) I should know more tomorrow even....

But we all know that the day after I pull the pin on ordering something new, that guy with the KC will contact me with a smoking deal or something will pop up on Kijiji...:mad: lol

First world problems

Thanks, cheers, stay safe.
 

Dabbler

ersatz engineer
Used 1440s can be had for about the price of new 1236s, but you need to know the machine and be sure of your survey.

If you have the bucks, the Taiwanese 1236 and 1440 are really the best machines for the money. The used 16" machines and bigger start to go down in price, as most guys don't have the room. If you can get the guy with the KC1236 to commit to you being 'first in line' at an agreed price, you might do very well there.

As a sidenote: I couldn't find a decent bigger mill in Calgary (this was 8 years ago) so I bought my 3500 lb mill out of Richmond, BC and had it shipped. With tailgate delivery it was about 800$ to ship...
 

ShawnR

Ultra Member
Premium Member
Precision Matthew quote came back as $4726 US after taxes, shipping to the border, cast iron stand and High precision keyless drill chuck.
Converts to $5900 Can

They are working on shipping costs to my door since I am so close., which will include the Trump tariff.
Found out the drill chuck is not available so that will not be available. A chuck is easy enough to get here. I have a couple for my lathe so could keep one of those too and change the taper in it.....
 

PeterT

Ultra Member
Premium Member
Assume you are talking the 12x36? Personally I wouldn't fret over the drill chuck. Readily available from many place & you may have a preference as to quality.
Something I would consider carefully now is DRO & taper attachment.
- DRO because presumably has the proper length scales & some familiarity of reliability & quality. You can probably do just as well sourcing elsewhere but now a different vendor & package arrival, warranty or lack thereof. 299 to have them install is tempting IMO.
- Taper attachment because if its like many lathes, the cross feed leadscrew & other attributes are very likely different. Buying this later just costs more & is a pita. I've said this many times but I wish I got mine up front.
BTW these 2 items are often found on package deals like (specific) lathes at Modern. So you have to factor this in to compare apples to apples. I'm not promoting one over the other, just mentioning.

1616091176323.png
1616091519134.png
 

ShawnR

Ultra Member
Premium Member
Thanks Peter. Yes, 300 to install may be worth it but also 600 min for the DRO itself so now $ 900 US dollars. I don't think a DRO on a lathe is important to me. The YUWE and others in the 1440 league had them and it would have been great but if I was to spend that money somewhere, I would rather put one on my mill. A taper,although would be one of those things needed when needed, I have not needed yet. Those lathes pictured are the Ultra precision ones. The one I am considering is the regular one but preferred package. My skill set does not warrant an "Ultra precision"


PM-1236.jpg
 
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