Need help with drill spindle!

[Brent H]

@PeterT : Loctite 648 (bearing retainer) should work very well and has up to a 0.006 gap fill. I would suggest that @DH930 perform all the work required and then use the compound for the final assembly. If all goes well it will never be apart again.

@PeterT great work on cleaning up the imperfections. I may have a chuck kicking around but sadly I am way way far away from the action. Here is a link to the taper charts: http://www.jacobschuck.com/MagentoShare/media/documents/jacobs-technical-information.pdf

 

[DH930]

@PeterT : Loctite 648 (bearing retainer) should work very well and has up to a 0.006 gap fill. I would suggest that @DH930 perform all the work required and then use the compound for the final assembly. If all goes well it will never be apart again.

@PeterT great work on cleaning up the imperfections. I may have a chuck kicking around but sadly I am way way far away from the action. Here is a link to the taper charts: http://www.jacobschuck.com/MagentoShare/media/documents/jacobs-technical-information.pdf

If I have to remove the bearings in the future for any reason at all, is loctite 648 bearing retainer can be removed? I have no experience in removing bearings that have been held by loctite.

 

[Crosche]

Just out of curiosity, would it be possible to use silver solder to build up the areas where the bearings mount and then machine away the excess? Or would the application of heat warp the shaft?

Cheers,

Chad

 

[YYCHM]

If I have to remove the bearings in the future for any reason at all, is loctite 648 bearing retainer can be removed? I have no experience in removing bearings that have been held by loctite.

For disassembly of the Loctite 648 material use heat approximately 250 degrees Celsius and the material will disassemble. Cured material can be removed by soaking it in a Loctite Solvent and using a wire brush.

 

[RobinHood]

Maybe the chuck needs to be re-assembled? Perhaps old preservative material is stuck in it. Regrind the chuck jaws (when it is assembled onto the spindle) in it’s own bearings?

 

[PeterT]

From what I can tell, the chuck is out ~0.010" meaning how the jaws are aligning to a pin relative to conical arbor seat axis. When I look at the jaws they seem in good shape as one would expect from new but you can see one set is maybe a hair open more than the other. 10 thou isn't a lot but I think your spindle is already more accurate, in the order of 2 thou. So it would kind of be a shame for the chuck to be the weak link in the chain. You have a VFD & can probably spin decent rpms. That is normally an enviable recipe for accurately drilling small diameter holes. But not with this kind of runout. For example consider a 1/32" drill = 0.031" diameter, the runout rpresents 0.010/.031=32% of the drill diameter vs 6% with a (theoretically perfect) alternate chuck & only spindle runout. A woodworker may not care but too much for an accurate machine.

If you can determine the taper number you bought, maybe one of us as a known decent chuck to plop on just to test before committing to buy another. Possibly you could increase the capacity of the chuck and/or consider a keyless unless you like the key style for nostalgia. I was going to take the chuck off my drill press which I know is pretty good, but I couldn't find my drift set.

But I will try a dry assembly just using bearing/spindle/quill/components & see what the runout is looking like on the arbour because right now I am only looking at the spindle in isolation. In this particular case I'm a little bit apprehensive of Loctite too because we don't want to tappety-tap things anymore. But I think heat would break the bond, at least that has been my experience. I think we want gap fill but just enough strength to hold the race in position.

 

[PeterT]

Just out of curiosity, would it be possible to use silver solder to build up the areas where the bearings mount and then machine away the excess? Or would the application of heat warp the shaft?

I'd personally be reluctant to introduce heat just because its so hard to control the even application of the torch & potentially mess up what seems to be good spindle runout. Thats why I want to test assemble the quill now. Who knows, sometimes little tolerances collect & cancel to work in our favor (or it could go the other way but visually the quill bearing seats look great). Primer is looking like a worthwhile option IMO if we are dealing with say 0.0015" annular gap & want them snug.

 

[DH930]

Is it possible to apply epoxy glue and then turn it down to the diameter on the lathe once it is cured? This way the bearings sit centred to the spindle. If not epoxy glue, perhaps some substance that can be applied on the spindle and then turns to proper diameter.

 

[YYCHM]

Is it possible to apply epoxy glue and then turn it down to the diameter on the lathe once it is cured? This way the bearings sit centred to the spindle. If not epoxy glue, perhaps some substance that can be applied on the spindle and then turns to proper diameter.

Spray Weld.

 

[Tom O]

With the spray welding your dealing with the heat again up around 400 degrees so. Silver solder would be a better choice out of the two, I would think on the other hand knurling is a tried and true Solution you could even coat it with JB weld before turning to size.

 

[PeterT]

I reconfirmed that I can only get 0.001" shim into one half of the bearing ID, not the full circumference. So I just picked a spot on the spindle & assembled with half shims on that side to at least remove the bearing/shaft play & see what the entire assembly gives me. If it was more than I measured in the lathe, then I would phase the shims opposite. If I got lucky & they cancelled then remember this position.

The assembly sequence goes lower bearing on spindle, separation tube, quill body which engages lower bearing on a seat, upper bearing which engages quill body bearing seat, a threaded part that seats on the outer race screw, a tapered collar with set screws which prevents the spindle from sliding through the bearings. More on this later.

I got roughly the same 0.002" runout on the arbor with the quill held stationary in a vise.

 

[PeterT]

Then without disturbing the setup I put the chuck on the arbor end with an accurate pin, got the same +0.010" added runout seen in the lathe. So not great news but at least consistent. I put the DTI on the chuck nose just for the heck of it. It runs out about 0.004-0.005" so possibly suggesting the jaws but I don't trust the body OD is indicative of the seat & certainly not the jaws. So we have a pretty good arbor surface but the chuck is a separate issue.

 

[DH930]

Very nice work Peter. Love what you are doing. Thank you so much for doing the work and documenting the investigation. At least we know that the spindle and the quill is in good shape. I don't know which chuck I should get to replaced that one.

 

[PeterT]

I'm trying an experiment tonight. I am painting a stripe of CA glue on my steel shaft. Its just a turned finish but I just want to see if I can build it up say 0.002" by painting a layer on & then just give it a slight sand on the lathe to take it down to mimic the ever-so-slight amount needed to remove all play. And to see that its a decent bond. Think nail polish treatment. All the coating really needs to do is suspend the bearing centrally until the assembly comes together. Loctite could be wicked in either inner race if desired, but I'm becoming less convinced it even needs it.

I'm starting to wonder about the real purpose of that inner tube. I think maybe a spacer between the inner races, then the top screw fitting act against the upper bearing outer race (only) so like a rudimentary bearing play eliminator? I'll have to study the schematic again.

 

[PeterT]

Dai, if I can find my dang chuck removal wedges (they are somewhere) we might be lucky & I have same taper chuck in my drill press. Do you happen to know your taper number?

 

[DH930]

Dai, if I can find my dang chuck removal wedges (they are somewhere) we might be lucky & I have same taper chuck in my drill press. Do you happen to know your taper number?

No, I don't remember the taper number on that chuck. I will have to look up the parts number charts on schematic.

 

[YYCHM]

Dai, if I can find my dang chuck removal wedges (they are somewhere) we might be lucky & I have same taper chuck in my drill press. Do you happen to know your taper number?

I have a set of #2 tapers, if that helps.

 

[DH930]

I'm trying an experiment tonight. I am painting a stripe of CA glue on my steel shaft. Its just a turned finish but I just want to see if I can build it up say 0.002" by painting a layer on & then just give it a slight sand on the lathe to take it down to mimic the ever-so-slight amount needed to remove all play. And to see that its a decent bond. Think nail polish treatment. All the coating really needs to do is suspend the bearing centrally until the assembly comes together. Loctite could be wicked in either inner race if desired, but I'm becoming less convinced it even needs it.

I'm starting to wonder about the real purpose of that inner tube. I think maybe a spacer between the inner races, then the top screw fitting act against the upper bearing outer race (only) so like a rudimentary bearing play eliminator? I'll have to study the schematic again.

Yeah, I didn't understand the relationship of the in between sleeve either. They should have kept the quill hole at slightly larger than .625" with crown on both side to hold the bearings. I think that one might be a bad design.

 

[DH930]

See #5 post in this link which he said exactly what you find Peter.

https://www.practicalmachinist.com/...walker-turner-drill-press-restoration-319126/

 

[PeterT]

Any chance the documentation corresponding to your model number specifies the taper or you still have the chuck box/order details?
I can measure the arbor & probably figure it out, just wondering out loud.
What is the chuck typical jaw opening for this drill?