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Milling Vises
- Thread starter Tecnico
- Start date
Rauce
Ultra Member
In my experience the cheap vises (busy bee, vevor, aliexpress etc.) fall short in both accuracy and how well they clamp the part. Even if one of them happened to have all perfectly square and flat surfaces it would still be frustrating to use.
I have a “GS” brand Kurt clone I got from a buddy. It’s much better but still probably not as good as the top tier brand name stuff.
Also, I would add that I think the best place to find a good brand name 6” milling vise is industrial auctions. They usually get separated from the machines so you’ll often see a dozen or more vises in one auction. They don’t go for super cheap but you could easily get a Kurt or similar quality vise for $200-400.
I have a “GS” brand Kurt clone I got from a buddy. It’s much better but still probably not as good as the top tier brand name stuff.
Also, I would add that I think the best place to find a good brand name 6” milling vise is industrial auctions. They usually get separated from the machines so you’ll often see a dozen or more vises in one auction. They don’t go for super cheap but you could easily get a Kurt or similar quality vise for $200-400.
Former Member
Guest
I see things as follows on VISE's,
Do they clamp properly?
Are surfaces in the correct planes?
Since I set up my vice on the fixed jaw, that portion of accuracy is taken care of.
Don't forget all set up
Is off the part. So as long as those are met, the final is the becomes longevity then which is where the difference is between between Good cost effective Asian and Expensive Kurt.
For me that cost difference vs life of tool allows me to buy other important consumable items such as Carbide tooling as I won't likely wear out the Good Asian one.
Do they clamp properly?
Are surfaces in the correct planes?
Since I set up my vice on the fixed jaw, that portion of accuracy is taken care of.
Don't forget all set up
Is off the part. So as long as those are met, the final is the becomes longevity then which is where the difference is between between Good cost effective Asian and Expensive Kurt.
For me that cost difference vs life of tool allows me to buy other important consumable items such as Carbide tooling as I won't likely wear out the Good Asian one.
Six O Two
(Marco)
Glacerns are cast in Taiwan, same as Shars' Tegara line. For my money, that's a world of difference.
If I lived in the GTA, I'd definitely be looking at industrial auctions for a used Kurt, as Rauce mentioned. But I don't, and I couldn't even justify to myself the scratch and dent Kurts (which are a relatively good deal from Kurt, even with the exchange and shipping). I ended up looking at the mid-tier Taiwanese Kurt knockoffs - Homge (Precision Matthews and KBC), Teco, Tegara and the like.
If yours is a GS as in Gerardi Spa or Gerardi SOWA with a logo that looks like this one etched onto it,
Then it's an outstanding quality Vise that is like 2 to 5 grand new.
There is some debate about whether the S stands for Spa (which is Italian for "Ltd") or SOWA who they partnered with here in North America. But regardless, the GS Vises are all first rate.
I got mine free with my Hartford mill. The seller had no idea that the vise was worth more than the mill!
It cost me 300 bucks just to buy new jaws for it.
Rauce
Ultra Member
It’s not like the modular style GS vises we have at work, it looks like a Kurt and only opens to 5.9” or something like that. I know it originally came from Sowa but I don’t think it is a Gerardi, the newer ones like it under the GS branding are only $700.
Dabbler
ersatz engineer
The vise that @Janger and I bought is an Autowell vise made in Taiwan, and it goes on sale for around 500$ from time to time. It is an exact clone of as Kurt 633 vise, which is a very solid vise that opens to the same 6 inchish that all the clones do.
I got my Kurt, brand new, from the same place, Thomas Skinner by doing a 3 step price match... I picked it up in Calgary for just over 600$.
On the mill, your most used item is the vise, and between your ways and the vise, is responsible for all of your accuracy.
I have sold all my clone vises except the Autowell, which I am convinced is just as good as, or better than, my Kurt.
KAR has it on sale at $558.00 Thomas Skinner will price match it. If you are in Hamilton, there is going to be a distributor that will give you the same price. As I said, you won't notice the difference between this one and the Kurt DX6, and I own both.
here's the KAR link:
kar.ca
I got my Kurt, brand new, from the same place, Thomas Skinner by doing a 3 step price match... I picked it up in Calgary for just over 600$.
On the mill, your most used item is the vise, and between your ways and the vise, is responsible for all of your accuracy.
I have sold all my clone vises except the Autowell, which I am convinced is just as good as, or better than, my Kurt.
KAR has it on sale at $558.00 Thomas Skinner will price match it. If you are in Hamilton, there is going to be a distributor that will give you the same price. As I said, you won't notice the difference between this one and the Kurt DX6, and I own both.
here's the KAR link:
PRECISION MILLING MACHINE VISE 6" X 7.5" JAW OPENING
<p><img src="https://kar.ca/media/wysiwyg/PrecisionMillingMachineVise_SKETCH.png" alt="Vise SKETCH" width="309" height="109" /></p> <table class="details_table" border="1" cellspacing="5" cellpadding="1"> <tbody> <tr style="background: #B23F46; color
kar.ca
When I bought my first mill I also bought a Magnum brand 6" vise from KMS tools. I did some measurement checks on it and found that the bed was .010" higher at the rear than the front on one rail and .005 higher on the other.. I took it apart and used a flycutter to make the bed as flat as possible.
I also found that the fixed and moveable jaws were not the same height, both the permanent and replaceable ones. So after the bed was flat I also milled the jaws to match each other.
After all that the vise is pretty flat and square but I got frustrated with it's flexing when clamped tightly so I bought a Kurt DX6. The Kurt is a work art compared the the Magnum vise and the castings are so much harder and stiffer. It is a joy to use. I do still occasionally use the Magnum when I need 2 vises but I hate doing it.
I also found that the fixed and moveable jaws were not the same height, both the permanent and replaceable ones. So after the bed was flat I also milled the jaws to match each other.
After all that the vise is pretty flat and square but I got frustrated with it's flexing when clamped tightly so I bought a Kurt DX6. The Kurt is a work art compared the the Magnum vise and the castings are so much harder and stiffer. It is a joy to use. I do still occasionally use the Magnum when I need 2 vises but I hate doing it.
I hope I'm not opening a can of worms here but I'm looking for opinions about milling vises.
First, how big a vise is the "right size" for a full size mill? 6 inch?
Second, right now I'm feeling mill poor so I'm not running out to invest in a Kurt, not to mention that they don't show up in the local Kijiji. I do know from using one that they're good equipment and quite desirable but..... is the equivalent Vevor 6" a reasonable option for a hobby machinist? Pro/Cons? I've seen some commentary/teardown that spoke favorabley of the Vevor/far east knock-offs.
Thanks
D
I have had my eyes on a 5" Tegara vise sold by Shars. https://www.shars.com/products/workholding/vise/5-550v-cnc-milling-machine-vise-0-0004-1
I don't know if Shars has changed their UPS only to Canada shipping policy but I got hosed by UPS shipping and brokerage charges when I bought a 4-jaw chuck from them.
You are right, shipping could be quite expensive. If I were to purchase a heavy item like a vise, then I would have it shipped to the border and go pick it up.
Call Shars first. They will ship items via USPS to Canada if requested (vs UPS = $ dinger fees over & above shipping). But only up to a certain weight. My guess is vise will be outside that range. So yes border pickup or intermediary drop point probably advisable. I don't think their online cart system is smart enough to provide options knowing the customer location, but they are accommodating over the phone.
Dabbler
ersatz engineer
When I did a lot of business with them they told me that USPS would only be possible for international shipments up to 30 lbs. They insisted I used UPS, but I got them to use Hercules transport instead. But man, they are $$$. (UPS was more) that's why I stopped using shars for anything biggerish. I like Shars, but not for the heavy stuff.
Nowadays choose their free shipping for continental US and chose a border agency - it is about half the price.
Nowadays choose their free shipping for continental US and chose a border agency - it is about half the price.
I had a very negative experience with Shars early on and I'll never buy from them again.
They sent me a defective backplate for my 4-jaw and I had to pay $60 UPS charges for the warranty replacement.
Former Member
Guest
My most first experience with Shars was great, mind you I have a business address in Niagara Falls NY I ship to and pick up regularly (even during COVID).
I’ve ordered a fair amount from them but always using a border service. Nothing for the past year or so