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Milling Vises

T

Tecnico

(Dave)
Premium Member
I hope I'm not opening a can of worms here but I'm looking for opinions about milling vises.

First, how big a vise is the "right size" for a full size mill? 6 inch?

Second, right now I'm feeling mill poor so I'm not running out to invest in a Kurt, not to mention that they don't show up in the local Kijiji. I do know from using one that they're good equipment and quite desirable but..... is the equivalent Vevor 6" a reasonable option for a hobby machinist? Pro/Cons? I've seen some commentary/teardown that spoke favorabley of the Vevor/far east knock-offs.

Thanks

D:cool:
 
If you have the patience, I'd wait for a good one on Kijiji or Marketplace. If not, get a cheap one knowing it's only temporary and then sell it when the right one follows you home.
 
If you are looking for a good Vise, I'm going to have a very nice 6" Rohm (opens to about 7.5"), with swivel base, for sale fairly soon.
 
I’d date my share vise, I’d marry my curt.

Both turn out product. I’m not machining beyond either of their limits. I’d buy the Kurt again if I had the money, I’d probably complete all my projects in the last two years with any vise.

I drive a Chevy, I’d take a Ferrari........
 
kevin.decelles said:
I’d date my share vise, I’d marry my curt.

Both turn out product. I’m not machining beyond either of their limits. I’d buy the Kurt again if I had the money, I’d probably complete all my projects in the last two years with any vise.

I drive a Chevy, I’d take a Ferrari........
Click to expand...

OMG Kevin! Have you been drinking again?
 
I lived with and managed with mid-quality vises for 30 + years, and then I bought a Kurt Knockoff sold by Thomas Skinner, new in the 6" size, and it changed my world - in milling, at least. Then I managed a price match on a Kurt DX6, and things got even better.

A thing to keep in mind is that the old style Asian 6" vises only open to 4 3/4"; The next generation ones open to 6+" and by reversing the jaws give you about 14" of clamping.

Buy what you can afford and keep looking for a deal on a better one. You won't lose much money on any reasonable vise.
 
Vevor claims precision of .002, Accusize claims 0.0002. I don't see any where that Kurt tells us but I had found one poster who found 0.0006 error in his brand new Kurt 6 inch. Accusize is almost 3X more expensive than Vevor and half the price of a similar Kurt. Now I imagine others could find a better critique for comparison but this newbies leaning toward an Accusize compromise.
 
Sounds like a plan to me.

Then start watching the community ads for an upgrade. Might take a while but lots and lots and lots of Kurt's out there. Just takes a while before someone sells theirs. Watch for a GS too. Mine was free with my mill. Guy selling didn't know it was worth more than I paid for the mill. Then again, at the time neither did I!
 
To state the obvious, the vise is a basic bit of mill tooling and the accuracy of everything you hold in it will be a function of how good it is.

If you don't have a grinder and ability to fix them, its important to get a good one. I recently did a video (posted here somewhere) on surveying a "happy vise" and it once again showed the propensity for (some/ a lot/most) of the China made stuff to completely fabricate claims of accuracy. I've done this on another large Chinese vise once, and got the same results.

The Kurts are excellent. You can sometimes get greatly reduced prices by going to smaller industrial supply/tool dealers. There is HUGE mark up on this stuff.

Fortunately the angle lock patent is expired so that are many clones. Maybe look to the better ones? I'm leery of Accusize, they were basically a distributor of low end Chinese stuff then one day branded it all Accusize and trebled the price. Maybe its good, but I'd have to have a tour of their QC lab (rather doubting there is one, but maybe) in Richmond Hill before becoming a believer. While I suspect its getting better, the few pieces of Chinese tooling I've had my hands on, none was in spec to the claims or certs.

Because manufacturers claims can't be trusted with all these clones, imo its all BS and hearsay until someone does a survey of it. If anyone wants to bring me a new Accusize vise I'll survey it and post the results. Evidence vs claims.

Its a frustrating dilemma. Its a key tool, but the trusted brands want an arm and leg and we're home shop guys. otoh, if you don't buy a trusted brand, you need the grade A plate, tenths indicator, accurate square etc to be able survey them to know how accurate it is vs the fiction in the advertisement or on the certificate.

There was one clone maker that seem to get some good press, Glacern. I think they are made in China but they either assembled and inspected or finish ground in California. Not sure, and not saying they are any better, really don't know, but I remember a few years ago they put a bunch of effort into telling everyone they were lol. I'd survey a new one them as well if anyone wants to bring one by

PS: don't entirely pass up on the old but quality vises that aren't anglelocks. With a pair of hold downs, a good quality non anglelock vise can do as good or a better job...its just more of a pita to setup. For thin stuff that would have to be gripped at the very top of the jaws, I still go with hold downs despite having a Kurt.
 
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Mcgyver said:
To state the obvious, the vise is a basic bit of mill tooling and the accuracy of everything you hold in it will be a function of how good it is......

..... I'm leery of Accusize, they were basically a distributor of low end Chinese stuff then one day branded it all Accusize and trebled the price. Maybe its good, but I'd have to have a tour of their QC lab (rather doubting there is one, but maybe) in Richmond Hill before becoming a believer........
Click to expand...

For one, I'd like to know more about Accusize. I've purchased more and more of their stuff as time passes. Initially it was just the odd thing that seemed like a reasonably safe purchase. But of late they seem to be doing better. I especially like their "Northern" line of tools. I have no idea where Northern is, if it is wholly owned, or what their QC is like. But I do "feel" that it's better than an apple barrel dunk from China and I have not been disappointed with a Northern tool - yet anyway.
 
I don't really know. I do know they were simply a distributor. Bought sold shipped. That is a very different business activity than manufacturing (design make inspect). As I can't see how just about overnight one goes from being one to other, I think there is a very high probably its just rebranding in which case it feels a bit wrong and is not worth with the premium. Just my view, and its mostly speculation from a few touch points.

Its probably fair to say the quality of stuff out of China has improved (although there is still tons of junk ala my review of the (un-)happy vise). Maybe Accusize is able to source better stuff, I don't know. Not saying they are bad, I'm just leery. Really to assess, things should be quanitifed, a feeling either way is only good for the look and finish lol.

As a side bar, there are significant culture differences around business and manufacturing there that makes it different and difficult. I was involved with a business that had a plant there and, well, you're not in Kansas anymore. An excellent book, "Poorly made in China" is by someone from the west who ends living there as a full consultant specializing in bridging the gap between east and west around outsourced manufacturing. He gives an insightful account and discussion of these differences and the quality challenges they create. Really resonated with my experiences there.

As more manufacturers there learn the power of branding, they become stakeholders in product quality and things will change. Already happening. I bought a Chinese made gimbal for my camera, expensive and and a beautifully made product. A good part the resin 3D printer market is branded Chinese product, same thing: pretty decent quality. The more that takes hold, the great pressure there will be on existing "quality" manufacturers here and elsewhere, and the more the China=low quality thing will fade..but it will take time.
 
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I purchased a 6" Kurt DX6 a couple of years ago from Travers. It was quite expensive compared to Accuzize and others. I look at this way, if you want to produce accurate parts on the mill eliminate the items that can introduce errors, and to me that starts with the vise, next would be tooling and finally operator proficiency. I'm still working on the last 2, but at least I know I can't blame the vise for poor results.
 
Everything you say makes sense to me @Mcgyver .

I spent two weeks there as a consultant for a customer looking at buying a fleet of electric vehicles made there. It was mostly garbage. But there was a really big political push (from both sides) to say it was world class. Wasn't coming out of my mouth. I believe that you are right, it will change eventually - but prolly not in my lifetime. Much easier to compete on price than quality. But I'd bet the small stuff will get there a lot faster and some probably already has.

Just so you know, I'm not buying you a vise to test.... ;)

LOL!
 
Mcgyver said:
...
Because manufacturers claims can't be trusted with all these clones, imo its all BS and hearsay until someone does a survey of it. If anyone wants to bring me a new Accusize vise I'll survey it and post the results. Evidence vs claims.

...
Click to expand...

I think it would be fantastic if we could do exactly such a comparison/survey. Unfortunately I can't afford to get one of each kind of vice. Can we find a sponsor some where? Maybe Kurt would be willing to demonstrate why they are better?
 
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