Is Taper Attachment worth it?

[Susquatch]

Lots of discussion about taper attachments has prompted me to think seriously about getting one.

My lathe came without one but it is still available as an accessory. It's the kind that bolts to the back of the cross slide and you remove the cross slide leade screw nut.

It's a lot of money. $550US plus shipping and taxes. Prolly a grand Canadian all in.

I replaced my old lathe with a brand new one 12 years ago now and never needed a taper attachment. Even now, the only job on the horizon is a balancing arbor for my surface grinder. WAAAAY cheaper to just buy the arbour! My guess is that I could also just make one using my compound.

I am only a few weeks from harvest and maybe a few months from completing my fall repairs. Then I get to play all winter in the shop. The main shop jobs are to convert my lathe to a 3-phase motor, and install a DRO. I think it would be rather foolish to ignore the possibility of installing the DRO Z Axis without considering the install of a taper attachment. So the time to decide once and for all is here.

Do I splurge on a taper attachment, or do I put the idea away forever?

If you have a taper attachment, what do you use it for? And could you have done that with a compound instead?

How would a taper attachment affect the price you would pay for a given lathe? (Thinking about my bride here.)

Have you ever wished you had one when you didn't?

Do you have one and ever wish you didn't?

How much of a chip trap are they?

How solid are they and do they ever have a negative affect on the rigidity, accuracy, and backlash of the cross slide?

Are there any questions I should have asked but didn't?

 

[Tecnico]

I’ll pipe up here, a TTA came with my Myford and I have made “good” use of it.

When I was updating the chuck on my drill press I used it to cut a JT2 taper on the shaft. It came in handy for making tapered fittings for my shop vac and I made a shaft extender for my shop stool too too. I don’t remember what else I’ve used it for but it has been a nice to have.

What do I like about it?

Since it has a longer baseline I can do more precise tweaking and measurements during setup compared to messing with the compound. Don’t trust the stamped angular marks. I can use power feed vs the compound so I get better finish. I can do a longer cut than the reliable travel of the compound.

While you’re scoping out your DRO install is the right time to be thinking about adding the TTA because you could burn bridges that you don’t know about until it’s too late. In my case the TTA was built into the existing design so I had to work around it but I found what seems to be a good solution to accommodate both but it did reposition some of the TTA. It’s documented in my “Tecnico’s Shop Window” thread. I’d ref link it but I’m on my iPad…..BTW, any typos/odd words that turn up are thanks to Steve Jobs/autocorrect, not me…..

My TTA as stock isn’t much of a chip trap but adding the DRO meant adding a channel to space the TTA to clear the DRO scale and that can catch chips but it hasn’t been a problem and I clean/vac the channel after a job anyhow. It’s part of the swarf separation-by-material thing I do anyway. The worst that happens is the scale armoured cable drags through some swarf in the channel but that would happen if the cable was dragged through the chip tray anyhow. No big deal.

I think I probably touched on accuracy/play/tolerance when talking about the baseline length but using the TTA doesn’t introduce angular slop like the compound because it takes the compound out of the tolerance stack. It also removes the backlash attributable to the cross leadscrew and replaces it with whatever is in the (minimally used) taper (gibed - is that a word?) slide.

Now, given that you’re a gentleman farmer with the winter relaxation season coming up you might want to give all the tools in your shop some exercise to make sure they’re all in fine tune and make yourself a really nice TTA that you’ll be able to show off to your sweetie and show how all those tools are saving you piles of cash! Is that helpful, LOL!

D

 

[cuslog]

I have owned 2 different lathes now for 20+ years - both have / had taper attachments - never used either - and I have cut lots of tapers. Short ones, I cut with the compound, longer ones , offset the tail stock. Taper attachment I currently own looks like it would do ~10" taper. Bit of a chip trap but never really bothered me. Buying a new machine, if it were an option, I might consider it just for re-sale value, don't think I'd ever buy one to add to a machine.
For intermittent or occasional use, I think they'd be a bit of a pain because you'd have to clean out chips, lube and adjust it for every use.

 

[PeterT]

Maybe you know this already but before you click BUY, have a complete understanding of your lathe leadscrew assembly & what the taper package includes / doesn't include. If the kit is only the bar & follower shoe & arm that attaches to cross slide, that's only half the requirement. Those components are arguably the easier things, might even consider make yourself, I think maybe @thestelster did?

You also need a convenient way to detach leadscrew from ABL nut during taper mode. That typically requires a different leadscrew assembly and/or specific cross slide features. Some have telescoping lead screws where the mechanism all stays put, but you flip modes mechanically (in other words they designed it from the onset). Some machines are relatively simple to take apart to detach leadscrew & get the required end result. But if its like my Taiwan 14x40, its a royal pita. Not really intended to do this. Every once in a while sketch up some new parts as a workaround, then I run out of enthusiasm when it comes to actually altering the lathe. King & Grizzly used to sell the complete assembly but I think it was north of $500 way back when. Doubt its even available anymore.

 

[PeterT]

I think I probably touched on accuracy/play/tolerance when talking about the baseline length but using the TTA doesn’t introduce angular slop like the compound because it takes the compound out of the tolerance stack. It also removes the backlash attributable to the cross leadscrew and replaces it with whatever is in the (minimally used) taper (gibed - is that a word?) slide.

Basically yes but remember, the taper slide mechanism tolerance / backlash is only as good as the fit between taper bar & slider/follower mechanism. Some followers are quite beefy & have their own adjustments somewhat analogous to gibs. But I've also seen others that are somewhat Mickey Mouse.

The usual motivations for taper attachment is you can do much longer tapered work vs ~couple limits travel of typical compound. You can also power feed in taper mode, or taper thread for that matter. And at shallow angles the compound often conflicts with tailstock support whereas not the vase with taper bar. Also once the angle is set, it can stay that way for another day while in regular cross slide mode & that can be beneficial for sequential machining ops.

 

[Bandit]

I have not had a taper attachment on any of the 5 lathes I have owned and still have 3 of. None of the lathes any where I have worked have had such either, another 12? maybe. The only lathe I ever used that had one was in school, half a century ago, SouthBend 10 inch, flat belt drive, the instructor didn't seem to know how to use it. I have only seen a few lathes with them in any of the shops I have been in over the years, visiting.
The one I have used, and those seen and tried, did not seem to lengthen taper machining lengths by huge amounts vs. the compound slide, 2 to 4? times maybe, compared to the length of the attachment itself.
Any long tapers I have needed to turn, used the set over of the tail stock with a dial gauge to set and then return to zero.
Seems, unless you are going to make a number of tapers longer then your compound will do or perhaps a tapered thread, it may see little to no use.
CNC has maybe/likely removed the need in the industry as such.
Just my limited take on it, which does not amount to more then a bean or two in a very large pot.
Susquatch, what does the balancing arbour look like?

 

[Susquatch]

Susquatch, what does the balancing arbour look like?

Prolly only need the 52273 below:




Other than finding the steel, I have very little concern about cutting it with my compound. I don't even think the taper or its finish is critical. Any problems with either would be invisible to the balancing process. In fact, I think a taper with a small waist like my bride's would work quite well and have even fewer problems.

Edit - these arbours are $500US and the balancing fixture is a US grand. I found cheaper but of dubious quality. So I plan to do what @thestelster did and make my own arbour, balancer, and adjustable balancing system.

 

[cuslog]

Never thought of the power feed / threading option with the taper attachment - that would be useful if you really needed it -- though, I do power feed when tapering long shafts (offset method).
Regarding attach / detach of the cross slide from the lead screw, my current lathe has 2 X .250" pins through the casting and into the bronze cross slide nut - tight enough to locate but loose enough to pull by hand with vise grips (extra long) - looks like an in house mod - would be quick and easy to switch.

 

[Dabbler]

If you have a taper attachment, what do you use it for? And could you have done that with a compound instead?

2 of my lathes have a taper attachment. Never used them. All my tapers have fit the (just under) 4" compound travel on my smallest lathe.

Why? -- because it takes a chunk of time to get the taper attachment dialed in. I can get the compound right in half the time. I seldom use my power feed in either direction., so that advantage for a TA is not applicable. If I really had to, I could cut 12" tapers using the big lathe, but never have had the need.

 

[Tecnico]

Basically yes but remember, the taper slide mechanism tolerance / backlash is only as good as the fit between taper bar & slider/follower mechanism. Some followers are quite beefy & have their own adjustments somewhat analogous to gibs. But I've also seen others that are somewhat Mickey Mouse.

The usual motivations for taper attachment is you can do much longer tapered work vs ~couple limits travel of typical compound. You can also power feed in taper mode, or taper thread for that matter. And at shallow angles the compound often conflicts with tailstock support whereas not the vase with taper bar. Also once the angle is set, it can stay that way for another day while in regular cross slide mode & that can be beneficial for sequential machining ops.

I guess my setup is rather unique, it is on the small size for a lathe but it came with a TTA and it seems well built. I had never seen one (TTA) before that. The TTA is fitted with an adjustable, gibbed slider which is actually as long as the compound so as far as stability I trust the TTA more than the compound for taper turning. This detailing is probably one of the reasons that they have such a loyal following in the UK.

Good point about being able to leave the TTA set for multi-operation jobs.

D

 

[Janger]

Ok John I have a surprising answer for you. You don’t need or want a taper attachment. Instead you need one of these to easily match and turn tapers.

Printables

www.printables.com

@Dabbler thought this up and I modeled and printed it. There’s a thread on here about it. So instead of a taper attachment (which are boat anchors in my opinion at least mine is) you need a 3D printer to print the model. There you go perfect reason to buy a printer! I love the forum and the way we spend other people’s money!

 

[Susquatch]

There’s a thread on here about it. So instead of a taper attachment (which are boat anchors in my opinion at least mine is) you need a 3D printer to print the model. There you go perfect reason to buy a printer!

Here is a link to the thread Janger referred to.

Thread 'Compound angle setter' https://canadianhobbymetalworkers.com/threads/compound-angle-setter.6020/

I remember it well. Yes, ideal job for a 3D printer. Nice way to set a compound too.

But entirely limited to compound length. You are SOL if you want or need a longer taper.

I'd want one of these regardless of whether or not I had a taper attachment.

Thanks John.

 

[Chipper5783]

I have two lathes fitted with TTAs. I use them very seldom (couple times to cut Morse tapers). I suspect it would not add any value to the lathe resale. The other place I have used it is for cutting pipe threads. For a small pipe thread, just use a tap/die. Alternatively I have used off the shelf fittings and cut/weld to create the special fitting that I need. A couple times I’ve generated my own thread (I think it was 2”) and single point threading in the lathe was the best option - not sure how to do that without a TTA (or a CNC).

I‘d love to hear how others are generating a tapered thread w/o a TTA (especially on a bore, can’t use tailstock off set).

 

[DPittman]

Anyone have one of these?
NEW IMPROVED TAPER TURNING ATTACHMENT WITH REVOLVING LIVE CENTER FOR LATHE MACHINE-METRIC (2MT)- SEE Working VIDEO** https://a.co/d/2SSK0F4

I'd like to try one but in addition to the expense, I'm also leary that it it is from India.

 

[Susquatch]

I‘d love to hear how others are generating a tapered thread w/o a TTA (especially on a bore, can’t use tailstock off set).

You make an excellent point. +1 for a taper attachment.

I've never had to do that, but if I had to do it on a lathe, I would be inclined to make a die holder for my tailstock, and thread into that. That would work male or female.

If I was told I had to single point, I'd practice backing off on the cross slide smoothly as the cut progressed. In my mind, I can do it. In reality, it might not be so easy. It sounds like a worthy challenge though......

But the truth is that I wouldn't bother doing it on my lathe. I'd just use a big tap wrench with the part held in a bench vise.

 

[Susquatch]

Anyone have one of these?
NEW IMPROVED TAPER TURNING ATTACHMENT WITH REVOLVING LIVE CENTER FOR LATHE MACHINE-METRIC (2MT)- SEE Working VIDEO** https://a.co/d/2SSK0F4

I'd like to try one but in addition to the expense, I'm also leary that it it is from India.

I have had zero success ordering from India. It is either junk when it arrives or never comes. That includes two orders from Assorts.

Beyond that, I would be worried about how well it would work under load. I could just see it turning in the taper and totally destroying my part and maybe my lathe. I'd want a tang on the end of the taper to prevent that.

Couldn't find the video.

 

[thestelster]

Those components are arguably the easier things, might even consider make yourself, I think maybe @thestelster did?

Taper Turning Attachment for Standard Modern

I recently finished up a taper turning attachment for my Standard Modern 16" Utilathe. And it works!! I utilized several different designs which I Googled. Most of the material was from stuff laying around the shop, which means, cold rolled, hot rolled, O1, A2, aluminium.

canadianhobbymetalworkers.com

 

[Former Member]

There is a wonderful video(s) on you tube that shows you how to setup tapers with no muss or fuss, along with doing long ones with just the compound. I believe they where done by Joe Pie......

I was taught how to offset the tail stock to do long tapers (in a 15min lecture in HS) and lets you use the power feed, doing with the compound is just way easier and though no power feed.

I can see the attraction of a tapering jig with a lot of repetitive pieces (or offset tail stock for that matter). For onesies or short lengths compound is way easier.

As to using the indications for angle, well anyone knows you only use them for roughing in, not precise setups so why even worry about it.

 

[RobinHood]

Made my own 52273 style arbour using the TA, tool post grinder and the compound set at a shallow angle to split the thou. Use power feed to traverse.

A TA is a must if you work with any pipe threads (or other tapered threads). I have taps and dies to about 1 1/4” NPT. After that, the prices for quality taps and dies goes through the roof - so does the torque required to use them by hand…

 

[6.5 Fan]

I am in the save your money and spend it elsewhere, maybe a new corn planter.