How bad of an idea is it to cut structure out of my lathe base?

[Susquatch]

My guess is that your meter is set to DC amps or maybe not plugged into the high current connector on the meter.

Are you are measuring across neutral?

No way is it really 80 amps. You would blow the main. Again, Guessing it is 8 and the wrong meter input made that 80.

 

[Susquatch]

Another thought...... Did you blow the meter fuse? Some Flukes will still work with a blown fuse but it multiplies the output.

Also, are you using a fluke coil input to measure current? If so, many require a specific voltage setting to be accurate.

 

[Redneck_Sophistication]

My fluke is a T5-1000, it only has AC amps and hardwired leads do there is no wrong port to use.

I thought since the battery is low it might be showing a bad reading, but my 7amp grinder read 4.6 no load so it’s not multiplying the reading.
I don’t think I blew the fuse, still
Functional

Obviously I’m not leaving the breaker on for more then a couple seconds.

Too early for a rye? I’ll pick an Alberta distillers one from my collection in your honour!

 

[Redneck_Sophistication]

So I drew up the wiring as best as I can see it in my head.

I’m guessing red/green is the main winding
Black/brown being the starter winding.

To ME it looks correct.
But that doesn’t mean much lol

 

[Redneck_Sophistication]

Ok.

You know I used to think I was smart (somewhere deep inside I knew it was a lie)
But the more I hang around you fellers I feel more dumb. Like I was an ace in little league so they moved me up to the farm team and you guys are hitting homers I’m just kicking windows over here.

As I was posting my drawing it occurred to me that I was only switching the coil wires but let the windings energize with no coil! (Missing some terminal screws at the moment)

Hooked it back up turned the switch on THEN flipped the breaker and she WORKS!

Amp meter on and it blips to 80 on start up, then settles into 12 right where it’s supposed to be.

 

[Susquatch]

My fluke is a T5-1000, it only has AC amps and hardwired leads do there is no wrong port to use.

I know you got it working, but your meter is bugging me anyway. I guess I need that rye!

Ive used dozens of different Flukes in my life, but not one like yours.

If you are willing, I'd like to push the envelope a bit to satisfy my curiosity.

Looking at your meter, it only shows voltage hookup for the leads. Current is shown only at the top gap. There are also marks to show correct positioning of the wire in the gap.

Yet, you say it worked! I would have thought you had to use the gap method to measure current.......

But hey, it works. Yup, I need that rye.

 

[Susquatch]

I downloaded the manual for your fluke. According to the manual, it should not be able to measure current using the probes. It should only work using the current loop in the nose. But hey, leave it to fluke to include more features than documented. And Kudos to you for finding them.

Glad your motor is working now.

Oh yes, one more comment about Fluke fuses. Fluke (and many other high current meters) usually have two fuses - one for general operation and one for the high current mode alone.

When I mentioned the fuse earlier, I was specifically referring to the high current fuse. When it blows, the meter will still work. It just won't properly measure high current anymore.

I only mention this in case you or anyone else refers back to this thread again in the future.

 

[Redneck_Sophistication]

Susquatch I was only using the nose sorry if that wasn’t clear, I’m not aware of a way to measure amps with the probes.

Spent some time today installing the motor, a frustrating task as it takes up every inch, capacitor box has about 1/4” of clearance, feet are right on the edge of the mounting plate. Rear of the motor I can’t get to, In order to fasten it, it’s mounted to an oversized 1/4” plate I can weld in on one end (mounting plate is separate from body of lathe no worries about heat or warping)

Finally figured where the idler pulley goes as there is no spot for it. As it turns out the lid to the gearbox that was shop built at some point with these “extra” holes are actually the mounts!

But I could turn it on! And it spins! Fwd/rev needs some work.

BUT …..

It’s was short lived

It slowed down and tripped the breaker.
I’m thinking Belt slipping maybe?

Really wanted to make a chip! Something. So I actually got it “working” today.


Was hard as hell to spin the chuck.

Put the gears in neutral, still really hard near impossible.

Got looking at the headstock and ALL The cap screws are missing!
Previous owner was tying to open it up.
This is the exact reason I didn’t want to buy non running machines! Inheriting someone else’s problems. I just want a working machine

How do I remove this plate? I tapped the joint with a thin chisel, it gives slightly but I’m not forcing anything.
Pulled the thread on chuck off and I’m more mystified, there’s nothing there to remove.

Do I have to remove the entire spindle shaft?


I’ve resorted to a cigar out in the shop, I’ll go in for a rye and a cry I think lol

Hey the redneck seals worked at least! Not pissing out oil!

 

[YYCHM]

Does that lathe have a brake or spindle lock on it?

 

[Susquatch]

It slowed down and tripped the breaker.
I’m thinking Belt slipping maybe?

I doubt it. Slipping belts usually reduce load on the motor. I'm guessing it just got hot from high loads as you found later.

Was hard as hell to spin the chuck.

Put the gears in neutral, still really hard near impossible.

Yup, high loads.

You will have to find and fix the high loads.

How do I remove this plate? I tapped the joint with a thin chisel, it gives slightly but I’m not forcing anything.

Is there a silicone gasket under it? What is the cover made of?

If the cover is fairly strong, you can probably get it off with a bunch of putty knives. Shove them between the cover and case a little at a time on each. Think about it almost like even torquing/tightening of Bolts. You don't want to bend or break the cover - you just want to pull it off a little at a time evenly.

If the cover is robust, you can be more aggressive.

 

[Redneck_Sophistication]

Anyone else watch Cutting Edge Engineering on YouTube?

He just went over his “new” jumbo lathe that had a bunch of issues from the last owner and wanted to drag it out of his shop chop it in half with a thermal lance and scrap it??

Same brother. Same

 

[Redneck_Sophistication]

There is no spindle break as far as I can see,
I think the cover is aluminum like the rest of the headstock.

There might be some sort of gasket material under, hard to tell as someone slathered the whole thing with thick white paint.

It doesn’t look like the plate could come off without of the base of the chuck out of the way.

I’m pretty good mechanically but don’t know lathe construction.

 

[Susquatch]

Sounds like taking the chuck off is a good idea. That can't hurt anything.

 

[YYCHM]

There is no spindle break as far as I can see,
I think the cover is aluminum like the rest of the headstock.

There might be some sort of gasket material under, hard to tell as someone slathered the whole thing with thick white paint.

It doesn’t look like the plate could come off without of the base of the chuck out of the way.

I’m pretty good mechanically but don’t know lathe construction.

Does the motor run the gear box only without tripping? Turning the chuck by hand with the machine in low range might be a bit of a challenge. With the machine in neutral turning the chuck by hand shouldn't be a problem.

 

[RobinHood]

I’m thinking Belt slipping maybe?

You would hear a squealing noise if the belt slips.

Before you go any further trying to run the lathe, you need to figure out the lubrication system. The inside of the head stock looks bone dry. Judging by the copper oil lines going to the front and rear spindle bearings (and bull gear, etc), there should be an oil pump somewhere in the drive train. IT HAS TO PUMP OIL, otherwise the bearings overheat (and get damaged) in very short order and cause the spindle & thus the motor to bog down. Spindle bearings are close tolerance, high precision bearings that must be lubricated at all times.

Put the gears in neutral, still really hard near impossible.

Could be that the bearings are in too tight or starting to go because of lack of lubrication?

There probably is some sort of adjustment collar / system to set bearing pre-load. If they tried to get the spindle out (they did remove the cap screws on the front plate), but never finished the job, it could be that the front bearing is not seated properly and thus binding up.

Typically, the spindle comes out the front. The retaining plate bolts are already out. The co-axial gears, bearings, spacers, etc, slide off the spindle as it is withdrawn. They are retained somehow with a collar system on the back of the shaft (probably the same one that adjusts pre-load).

I think it would help us if you could post detailed pictures of the HS from the top as the cover is now off. Probably an overall view (the whole spindle in frame), then close-ups of a few gears/bearings along the spindle at a time.

We’ll be looking to determine how many bearings the spindle has, how they are retained, shifting mechanisms, etc, to help you with a possible solution/explanation why the spindle is hard to turn.

As you probably have gathered by now, it is quite difficult to advise you right off the bat on a course of action without a manual or someone else having the same (or at least similar) make and model of lathe. So the only thing that can be done is to ask more questions and for more pictures and have may pairs of eyes look at it to come up with a plan for you.

 

[Redneck_Sophistication]

Sorry that was more of a rant then a helpful amount of information.

Thinking belt slipping was more of my thought in the moment then a question.

I’m sure the barring previously needed work as the millwright I bought it off of had drained the oil for something I forget what he said for (been a few months) I’m guessing he started then decided to pass on the joy of it to me.

I knew the oil was low and needed more, I only ran it a few moments.

High winds shut down site today so I’m going to start on removing the spindle.

There are two final drive gears and a large collar between, a baring between the gearbox and quadrant gears, one gear and two collars there. Maybe something at the end plate behind the collar

Is the main barring behind the chuck a tapered roller baring? Need something as a thrust baring right?

 

[YYCHM]

What do you think removing the spindle is going to accomplish?

 

[Susquatch]

Rants are ok. We all have them.......

What is the vertical pipe clamped to the housing all about? (Nice Clamp btw).

Can you call the guy you got it from still?

Not sure why you think a bearing is implicated......

You can always add a little oil where needed for investigative purposes.

Visually, everything looks good that I can see. What should we be looking at here?

What are you thinking as you attack this beast?

 

[Redneck_Sophistication]

Oh I’ve got an led work light screwed to that alum tube shining down over the lathe to see.

Pics were as requested to see number of bearings/gears, and reference photos for reassembly

The guy I bought it off was selling before his move an hour away. I was not liking the non running status but thought being a millwright and these being his personal machines they’d be ok. (His work on the Bridgeport was nice, new bearings, new gibs in the ways, had the table reground, power feed&dro installed)
Think he went to route of CNC instead as converting the Bridgeport was one of his ideas.

He obviously had the headstock plate screws, and gearbox lid removed for a reason( top of lathe was never screwed down when I got it)

I’ve been squirting gear oil into the hole for the main bearing and the rear as I spin the chuck around to tap off one of the threaded collars.
Still very hard to turn with the headstock wrench (I’ve got a blown shoulder and turning it is right on the edge of hurting)

At the very least I think an inspection of the bearing is called for. Believe me I wish I didn’t need to, but I need eyes on the issue.

 

[RobinHood]

Maybe before you pull the spindle out entirely, you could try and back-off the locking collars. See drawing. If it is indeed just a question of too much pre-load, the spindle will feel light and turn easily once the pressure is off the TRBs.

I think this is the design of your spindle/bearings. Not sure about the tail end: could be another bearing (probably a floating ball bearing with a seal) as I can’t see it from the picture. The cover plate on the front will have an oil seal and retain the main bearing. The bull gear may have the front spacer integrated.

There are set screws securing the collars. They should have a brass (or other soft metal point that contact the threads. If not, a little brass plug may have fallen out and may be missing. There could be two set screws: on to lock the bottom one in place.
Ideally, you’ll need a hook spanner to turn the collar. Clamp the spindle nose between some 2x4s and brace them against the ways so the spindle does not turn on you when you rotate the collars.

Back the collars off just a bit - if they are indeed used to set pre-load, you’ll know right away as the spindle becomes easy to turn.

Once you have the spindle free turning, I would suggest setting the main (front) TR bearing pre-load first. Then the rear one. I am sure the factory had a specific procedure for setting the bearings. We won’t know what that was because we don’t have a manual. You will have to do it “by feel”, ie, eliminating end play and radial play using an indicator to measure. It is initially better to have them a bit loose than too tight. As you run the lathe for a good long time, monitor bearing temperature. Warm to the touch is good (<50*C-60*C), hot not so much.

Good call on your end to squirt oil into the bearings before running it.

Did you see an oil pump in the headstock?