Excello 602 Power Feed Repair
- Thread starter Safarir
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I have this set... https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00HSRD1K4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
What do you mean by Delta Inserts?
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You got it !!
I have been using some 1/2” End Mills for the time being. I bought 1/4”, 3/8” and 1/2” collets because I have a couple dozen 2 and 4 flute end mills from years ago. The Carbide Flycutter will toss quite a few more chips with less load on my mini mill.
That is one of the tools that I was looking at.
We used to call ‘triangular’ inserts Delta Style .
Not sure I understand why the indexible carbide is better than a plain hss or carbide end mill in the smaller sizes Len.
Carbide and high speed steel endmills are readily available and have the advantage of being able to both plunge cut and cut along a very deep edge.
I'm kinda stretching here, but I also suspect they would outlast and be cost comparable to inserts. You can buy plain old end mills super cheap on Ali.
Anyway, always willing to learn.
Do those fit a 3/4" welden shank?
Carbide and high speed steel endmills are readily available and have the advantage of being able to both plunge cut and cut along a very deep edge.
I'm kinda stretching here, but I also suspect they would outlast and be cost comparable to inserts. You can buy plain old end mills super cheap on Ali.
Anyway, always willing to learn.
Do those fit a 3/4" welden shank?
Not sure, maybe, they have a flat. I just use a 3/4" R8 collet.
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Indexable carbide inserts are used in production shops because it is quicker to switch to another cutting edge without having to reset the tooling position. When it comes to production shops cycle time is the important factor. They are also available with negative or positive clearances depending on what material you are machining. They even call the one tool in the LINK above ‘a hogger tool’ because that is a machinist term for removal of a large amount of material before a finishing cut is carried out.
I remember grinding HSS bits to use in the school shops, but, except for special cutting forms you do not find machinists grinding tool forms in production shops unless they are in a small or specialized shop.
I remember grinding HSS bits to use in the school shops, but, except for special cutting forms you do not find machinists grinding tool forms in production shops unless they are in a small or specialized shop.
That all makes perfect sense in production. But why would we hobbiests want that?
Some of us do not have 2-5hp motors on our workcenters and need to find other ways of completing operations for projects. With the use of innovative cutters (cemented carbide inserts in this case) I may be able to remove material at a reasonable rate without exerting too high a load on my mini-mill.
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I didn't intend to slight the size of your mill Len. It looks like you took it that way, but it wasn't my intention. I really was seriously wondering why indexible was desireable to you in order to understand why I might like it too. I'm always trying to learn.
While I do have a 2hp Bridgeport, I've used a 1/2hp mill drill for the last 10 years and a drill press with side bearings before that.
I understand the indexing advantage. I also understand the convenience factor. But I'm not sure I understand why speed is important for hobbiests like us. I guess I'm just old with lots of patience. I don't mind taking smaller cuts and enjoy the journey. Especially if it saves me money.
BTW, about half the tools I use on my lathe are indexable carbide. The rest are HSS. On the lathe, I like the convenience of not having to sharpen tools and the cost is a wash. But when I have work to do that matters, I use hss.
Here are a few options I ran across using your definition of fly cutter.
These might be too big but they did appeal to me.
Don’t worry about being critical.
I am experimenting and trying to get the most out of my little mill.
Keep those ideas and comments coming, when I was working at process design, the more input the better, good ideas come from many avenues & experiences.
I have not done very much machining In the last twenty years and I am gasping at the price of these cutters and inserts. When I was a machinist, the area manager provided them for our workorders and all the tool and die makers helped each other with setups and jigs.
Of course if I was to use HSS bits, I would have to get a pedestal grinder and my wife would have a FIT when the sparks started flying in our basement. LOL
I am experimenting and trying to get the most out of my little mill.
Keep those ideas and comments coming, when I was working at process design, the more input the better, good ideas come from many avenues & experiences.
I have not done very much machining In the last twenty years and I am gasping at the price of these cutters and inserts. When I was a machinist, the area manager provided them for our workorders and all the tool and die makers helped each other with setups and jigs.
Of course if I was to use HSS bits, I would have to get a pedestal grinder and my wife would have a FIT when the sparks started flying in our basement. LOL
I like the R8 integrated type - I get better results. You don't have to spend that much either. Look on Aliexpress. Those accusize ones are made in china anyway so you might as well skip the middleman. look at MZG and nicecutt on aliexpress. I got all these from Ali. Except for the little hoggers from accusize.
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Omg! You don't have a grinder? That's a bit like saying you don't own a screw driver! I couldn't live without a grinder. Can't you put one in the garage or the garden shed?
Seriously though, if you can't have or use a grinder, that sure puts a stop to a lot of HSS.
I'd be doing exactly what you are doing if I had that limitation. That said, I do have a few tools that have indexible hss inserts. You might want to look into something like that.
Looks like a great set to me John! Did you get them from MZG on Ali?
My go-to facing/sizing/finishing tool is a 4x insert 2" wide face mill. This one is from Taiwan. I probably would have selected R8 integrated like John's but this manufacturer makes standard heads to fit any kind of arbor. I can change the inserts in a couple minutes. If I have a wide plate I just step over 3/4 width or whatever. I think the inserts are APKT 16xx which are very common. These are brand name (but probably not) Ebay sourced.
I've read about people who have had problematic offshore face mills. The pocket datum surfaces were not accurate so the inserts had misaligned geometry. Years ago I had a KBC/China 1" diameter offshore mill with triangular inserts, but for whatever reason it just did not perform, despite having correct & variety of inserts. You could feel the labored feed rate even at moderate DOC, made a lot of heat, crappy looking chips. A good quality regular EM outperformed it hands down. Not sure what to say there, it can be a crap shoot sometimes.
The other consideration is HSS is not as common as it once was. Industry moved on multi-decades ago. What used to be inexpensive, high quality tool steel has been replaced by some cheesy mystery materials IMO. And the good stuff costs real money. Its valuable to have around the shop because you can make special forms or shapes or cutting geometry. But for plain turning & milling, inserts are so convenient & abundantly available. Like any tooling they have downsides too, but for me the pros outweigh the cons.
I've read about people who have had problematic offshore face mills. The pocket datum surfaces were not accurate so the inserts had misaligned geometry. Years ago I had a KBC/China 1" diameter offshore mill with triangular inserts, but for whatever reason it just did not perform, despite having correct & variety of inserts. You could feel the labored feed rate even at moderate DOC, made a lot of heat, crappy looking chips. A good quality regular EM outperformed it hands down. Not sure what to say there, it can be a crap shoot sometimes.
The other consideration is HSS is not as common as it once was. Industry moved on multi-decades ago. What used to be inexpensive, high quality tool steel has been replaced by some cheesy mystery materials IMO. And the good stuff costs real money. Its valuable to have around the shop because you can make special forms or shapes or cutting geometry. But for plain turning & milling, inserts are so convenient & abundantly available. Like any tooling they have downsides too, but for me the pros outweigh the cons.
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I think you are pretty much right about the industry moving on. I think that was most driven by the convenience but also by the higher faster cutting rates that the carbide offered.
Still, hss can be used slower, has far superior interrupted cut resilience, and can be customized. I'm not ready to give up on it yet. I absolutely love hss for smooth quiet cuts on the lathe and the mill.
That sure as heck doesn't mean I don't like carbide inserts. Prolly 80-90% of my lathe work is done with inserts. And I'd like to get there on my mill too.
With the mill, I am finding that there are sooooo many inexpensive hss/carbide endmills out there that it's gunna be a struggle to replace them with indexable carbide.
I love your face cutter. That's exactly what I'm looking for.