Excello 602 Power Feed Repair

[Safarir]

I decided that I wanted to fix the power feed on my Excello 602. The 602 have a power feed mounted on the knee which is basically a DC servo motor and a speed controller. The servo is constantly turning and when the lever on the saddle is engaged, a spline shaft is engaged that connect to the lead screw via a gear near the hand wheel.

On my machine, the electronic seem functional but I am missing some hardware:
- Spline shaft
- Spline shaft gear
- Feed coupler
- 2x Trust washers

I have yet to figure out how I will make the spline shaft or the feed coupler, so I decided to start with the gear.


This picture show the gear attached to the lead screw. The hole on the right is the bronze bearing for the spline shaft. I need to make the matching gear, so first step is to identify the gear I already have.

Some quick math reveal that it is a 30 teeth gear ;p

Also, with it diameter of 2", it seem to be a 16DP. After measuring the distance between the axis of the leadscrew and spline shaft, I calculated that the matching gear should be 14 teeth.

The last question is what is the contact angle ? I did not find any good reference on how to measure that, so I started by scanning the gear with a document scanner.

I then generated a 14.5° and 20° contact angle gear in fusion360 and compared the profile:

14.5°


20°


From those picture, the 20° contact angle seem a better fit, which is quite surprising to me as 14.5° seem more common. Does someone have a better way to identify the contact angle ? Those gear cutter are pretty expensive, so I don't want to end up buying the wrong one.

 

[YYCHM]

Results Page 1 :: KBC Tools & Machinery

www.kbctools.ca

 

[Safarir]

Results Page 1 :: KBC Tools & Machinery

www.kbctools.ca

I think those are all 14.5° pressure angle ... and way too expensive ...

 

[YYCHM]

Your gear sure looks like a 14.5 to me. Been down this road twice now. How old is the machine?

 

[Safarir]

Your gear sure looks like a 14.5 to me. Been down this road twice now. How old is the machine?

Between 1975 and 1982 I think

 

[YYCHM]

Are gears with the same Diametral Pitch (DP) guranteed to mesh?

I'm looking for a 28 tooth mate for this 14 tooth gear..... The DP appears to be 16. The only gears that match the required diameters on the McMaster-Car website are 16 DP 14.5 PA gears. So is going with 16 DP 14.5 PA a safe bet?

canadianhobbymetalworkers.com

 

[Mcgyver]

Your gear sure looks like a 14.5 to me. Been down this road twice now. How old is the machine?

The scans above looks 20 degrees - based on the overlaid images?

According to Engineering Tips, the 14.5 standard was officially dropped in the early '70's however 20's were common if not the majority long before that. My '42 Monarch for example is 20.

Those leaf gauges do give a strong hint at the right pressure angle. I've a boston gear set with 14.5 and 20 and one will roll over the teeth more smoothly than the the other. If you are local (toronto, locations no longer appear on the left margin) happy to have you come by and try it. There is also a way with a gear tooth vernier to measure by going across several teeth. I've done but so but infrequently I'd have to google for figure it out again

 

[LenVW]

Used to work for ExCellO back 30 years ago as a machinist.
Last year I ran across a guy here in Cambridge, Ontario, who rebuilds ExCellO 602s.
Roy could help you out for parts, etc.

Preston Rebuilt Machinery Roy Weidinger C. 519-621-4258
Email: info@redcam

 

[YYCHM]

McMaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.

www.mcmaster.com

Not seeing a 20PA 16DP 14 Tooth offered?

 

[Safarir]

Used to work for ExCellO back 30 years ago as a machinist.
Last year I ran across a guy here in Cambridge, Ontario, who rebuilds ExCellO 602s.
Roy could help you out for parts, etc.

Preston Rebuilt Machinery Roy Weidinger C. 519-621-4258
Email: info@redcam

This is awesome ! Do you have any idea what happen with the company documents (mostly drawing) when they stopped production ?

I emailed that guy, thank you for that.

The scans above looks 20 degrees - based on the overlaid images?

According to Engineering Tips, the 14.5 standard was officially dropped in the early '70's however 20's were common if not the majority long before that. My '42 Monarch for example is 20.

Those leaf gauges do give a strong hint at the right pressure angle. I've a boston gear set with 14.5 and 20 and one will roll over the teeth more smoothly than the the other. If you are local (toronto, locations no longer appear on the left margin) happy to have you come by and try it. There is also a way with a gear tooth vernier to measure by going across several teeth. I've done but so but infrequently I'd have to google for figure it out again

I am unfortunately in the Ottawa region. Our location should really show under our name.


Now, does anyone have a source for a DP16 PA20 #7 gear cutter. I emailed a bunch of Chinese provider without success, they seem to only have hob in that format. For some unknown reason, KBC only list #2, #3, #4 and #8 . There is a 2 listing on ebay that look promising, but they are located in the UK.

There is also one guy around Toronto that have a 36" spline shaft and the gear, but he is asking 220$ + shipping. I could probably use the spline shaft with a extension and the gear but I would still need to make the feed coupler (that slide on the shaft). I think I prefer to spend the money on tooling and spend 6 months making my own.

 

[RobinHood]

Travers Tool has them:

https://www.travers.com/category/gear-cutters?pressure_angle_1391%5B0%5D=20°&diametrical_pitch_2850%5B0%5D=16

 

[YYCHM]

Still not convinced it's 20PA. Can't find a match for the 16DP, 30T or 14T in 20PA but I can find a match for both in 14.5PA, including the 2" OD for the 30T.

 

[Safarir]

Still not convinced it's 20PA. Can't find a match for the 16DP, 30T or 14T in 20PA but I can find a match for both in 14.5PA, including the 2" OD for the 30T.

I am not sure how I could get more accurate that the scan ... Is there any other measurement I should do ?

Travers Tool has them:

https://www.travers.com/category/gear-cutters?pressure_angle_1391%5B0%5D=20°&diametrical_pitch_2850%5B0%5D=16

TTC 10-289-167 2-1/2

Involute Gear Tooth Cutter from TTC Production for Precision Milling Gears. TTC has designed these gear cutters to deliver easy and error-free machining of gear pitches. These high-end gear cutters provide you with pressure angles of 14-1/2 degrees and 20 degrees. These gear tooth cutters are...

www.traverscanada.com

174$ CAD ... I was hoping for something around 50$ ...

 

[LenVW]

Here is a little history about Ex-Cell-O Corp.
I worked at their Special Tools Division in Clinton, ON (1980-85)
It was a feeder plat for the larger London plant.


In 1948 Ex-Cell-O acquired Robbins Engineering Co. of Detroit, whose primary line of business was jet-engine rotors and related components, but also had a machine tool business, including magnetic chucks, sine bars and sine plates. In 1958 Ex-Cell-O acquired the Bryant Chucking Grinder Co., of Springfield, Vermont, whose line of production grinding machines dovetailed nicely with Ex-Cell-O's line of special-purpose grinding machines. In 1963 they acquired honing machine maker Micromatic Hone Corp., and in 1968 they acquired woodworking machinery maker Greenlee Brothers & Co. of Rockford, Illinois. In 1977 they acquired McCord Corp., maker of automotive, industrial and agricultural products.

In 1986 Ex-Cell-O was acquired by defense-industry conglomerate Textron, and at some point the machine tool division became Ex-Cell-O Machine Tools, Inc.

Ex-Cell-O began laying off all employees on April 28, 2006. So far as we know, parts and service for Greenlee machinery are no longer available. Many of the Ex-Cell-O machine tool products are supported by Kenrie, Inc., of Holland, Michigan.

In Canada, Ex-Cell-O Corporation of Canada, Ltd., was located at 120 Weston Street in London, Ontario, where they manufactured a very successful line of heavy machine tools such as ram-type milling machines.

Ex-Cell-O's product lines varied over the years. In their early years they made grinding machines, including Carboloy branded grinders that were sold by Carboloy, Inc., a maker of tungsten carbide and tooling. By the early 1940s they were also making high-precision machinery including including boring machines, facing machines, thread grinders, and lapping machines. By the early '50s their machines had become progressively more massive and precise. Cylinder boring machines and vertical boring mills were among the machine-tool products that had been added to an increasing diverse product lineup. Ram turret milling machines joined the lineup and these were exceptionally heavy and rigid, and as with most Ex-Cell-O machines they were hand-scraped and fit to achieve the tightest possible tolerances.

 

[Susquatch]

Now, does anyone have a source for a DP16 PA20 #7 gear cutter. I emailed a bunch of Chinese provider without success, they seem to only have hob in that format. For some unknown reason, KBC only list #2, #3, #4 and #8 . There is a 2 listing on ebay that look promising, but they are located in the UK.

I might have one I could loan you. I'll check in the morning.

 

[YYCHM]

I am not sure how I could get more accurate that the scan ... Is there any other measurement I should do ?

With luck Preston Rebuilt Machinery can answer the question?

 

[LenVW]

With luck Preston Rebuilt Machinery can answer the question?

The last time I stopped in to see Roy at PRM he had (8) 602s tore down.
I am past his shop daily. (He may be off until Jan.4)

Hey Craig, what does YYCHM mean ?
I thought ‘CHM‘ might be your home airport.
There are a lot of you guys out in Western Canada !!

 

[YYCHM]

The last time I stopped in to see Roy at PRM he had (8) 602s tore down.
I am past his shop daily. (He may be off until Jan.4)

Hey Craig, what does YYCHM mean ?
I thought ‘CHM‘ might be your home airport.
There are a lot of you guys out in Western Canada !!

YYC = Calgary, HM = Hobby Machinist. I started out as YYCHobbyMachinist but that handle is way too long LOL.

 

[LenVW]

I figured it had something to do with the airport.
I was a pilot back in the 1990s, but have not flown since.
Just single engine, VFR (Cessna 152 & 172).

 

[YYCHM]

I figured it had something to do with the airport.
I was a pilot back in the 1990s, but have not flown since.
Just single engine, VFR (Cessna 152 & 172).

1990s eh, same here only I trained in and rented a Grumman Cheetah. Spin training was in a Piper something or other.