Cincinnati No 2 Cutter Grinder Restoration

[Brent H]

Great day making gears today. Spent yesterday making blanks and cursing the failed broach fiasco and then came today!!!

cutting gears to replace the missing parts in my tool grinder. The slow feed in my model was supposed to have helical gears - hard to make, so I made spur gears as would have been the way of the 1930’s models. Since they didn’t change the casting for the handle I could revert to the old gearing.
I made a new stationary gear shaft from 1-1/2” 4140 with bushing pressed into either end to support a 3/4” shaft that drives a bronze gear. This gear moves the rack back an forth while grinding. This shaft received 19 gear teeth. 14DP - 14.5° PA.

Then I machined the broached blank with 20 Teeth - all same cutter so set up was quick and easy.

I then cut the spool with 18 Teeth on one end and 17 teeth the other.

Then we had some assembly time:

The smaller gears are Cast Iron.
I lubbed up everything with some assembly grease and put it on the machine.

Works like a charm!!

You push in the centre shaft to engage the slow gear and it rotates on the bigger shaft to reduce the feed speed - I forget the amount sorta 4-1 type thing.
I would like to make a new bronze drive gear for this machine but having trouble finding a 12 DP -20°PA cutter. Most are the 14.5°.
Anyway - new belt to install and hook up the VFD and should be good to start wrecking end mills very soon!!

 

[Chipper5783]

Very nice write up. Thank you. I've not touched my Cinci #2 in a couple years (so many other projects). I have tuned up the side flutes on about half dozen end mills (the air bearing end mill holders is incredibly smooth). I have not sorted out sharpening the end teeth of the EM - let me know when you get that sorted.

 

[Brent H]

Nice looking machine @Chipper5783 ! I have a few different attachments so I will post my success and failures for sure!!

 

[Payner]

Brent . Great looking job , I will watch as you finish up .
Bill

 

[Brent H]

@Tom Kitta and @Dabbler :

I found this you tube video today:

There is also a few others for doing the helical edges.

I am looking for any Oz40 collets or Weldon adaptor sleeves if anyone has any of those out there?

If things go well I may be doing some sharpening sooner than later - just need to get home....

 

[RobinHood]

I think I have some orphan OZ collets. Not sure if they are OZ 40. I will check.

 

[Brent H]

@RobinHood - that would be great. I have 1/4” and I think 3/4” for the sharpening head. I have been looking for a few more and then I can start doing some sharpening. My Weldon sharpening jig will be getting some tune up as well - that would be the helical part of the sharpener

 

[Mcgyver]

looking good...a super useful addition to the shop!

 

[RobinHood]

So I checked. They are OZ25s made in Germany, not the 40s you are looking for. I also have a MT3 & a MT4 collet holder for them. Not sure if that would help you any.

 

[YYCHM]

So I checked. They are OZ25s made in Germany, not the 40s you are looking for. I also have a MT3 & a MT4 collet holder for them. Not sure if that would help you any.

Hmmm... are the holders threaded for a draw bar? What size are the collets? I might be interested.

 

[RobinHood]

The MT3 holder (top left) only has a tang. The MT4 uses a 5/8-11 thread. There is only one nut for both holders and no key.

The collet sizes are: 1/8, 1/4, 5/16, 1/2, 5/8, 3/4, 7/8 and 1”. They are Made in Germany by Ortlieb, sold by KAR here in Canada.

 

[Brent H]

@RobinHood :I will PM you on the units. I have a 50 taper To MT4 and MT3 that fits the head of the main grinder holder. Your selection should be good for any end mills I have as well I have the fill in sizes of oz 25

 

[JohnH]

So back in February, when Covid was just a buzz word I bought a (Approx) 1935 to 1940 Cincinnati No 2 Tool Grinder/Sharpener from a sharpening service that was closing its doors. I picked it up for $500 including a bunch of accessories, grinding wheels and some other odds and sods. I have been slowly working on it along with other things. This machine is one of those - built like a tank - items and every piece, including the smallest screw must weigh at least several pounds. I was able to download and find most of the original manuals and accessories pictures - parts are scarce, but I am making most of them so it is not as problematic as much as it takes time.

The machine is capable of just about every sharpening function you could imagine from 10" saw blades to 1/8" end mills. It will let you sharpen most cutter tools if you have the right jig. I have most of them except for a radius accessory and the planer knife holder. @Chicken lights may be able to pick up a few parts I have in the US that will do all the small end mils and another jig that will hold and properly grind saw blades.

The beast was loaded at the sharpening place using a fork truck and was removed from the trailer and loaded into my garage using another fork lift. On the way home the unit crushed a solid oak pallet and tilted sideways when I got caught in a kilometre stretch of road construction - just a bit of panic and cursing the Toronto area for its wonderful roads.

The grinder unit is listed at 2050 lbs plain - not entirely sure what "plain" means but it is heavy considering there are only 4 main parts. The grinder is built to absorb vibrations and keep the wheels cutting true. As I was reading about this type of machine it "appears" to be the best thing for sharpening tools and most large shops will have one or two of this type sharpener set up for some sharpening activity - by shops I mean a large sharpening facility or tool fabrication facility - CNC has pretty much turned sharpening into a past practice and disposable/recyclable cutters are more in use.

The Cincinnati will also surface grind (most say it is just "ok to adequate" but I had nothing before so........) and it will also grind cylindrical items as well - I have a few attachments for that purpose.

Pictures of the start of things:

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The first task was to pull apart the top and see what sort of repairs were needed. I found I will be making new shafts and putting in new bushings as needed. The only missing things were two gears in the front handle. The front handle has the ability to engage a planetary gear arrangement that will slow feed the table as you crank verses using the back handles. The back handles are direct drive and I tell you the table can boogie - very fast left to right as it rides on ball bearings. I would also be doing a bit of cast iron welding to fix a few accessories.

Here is the ball bearing system exposed (not x rated but there are a lot of balls......) hahaha

View attachment 9416

The balls are 3/4" and there are 20 a side. They ride in a brass cage and on hardened ways/ Nothing appeared worn.

I removed the saddle assembly and found that the lead screw nut was badly worn - it was cast iron and pretty much nothing left for solid grip.

View attachment 9417

But, I am getting better at the internal left hand ACME thread so what the heck - mill it out and insert a bronze threaded bush

It only took about 0.020" and the original threads were gone. I was in the process of making the left hand nut for the lead screw (this screw moves the saddle in and out) when I suffered my gear failure on the Utilathe - other restoration project ...LOL.....

Anyway - after setting up on a different lathe at work I finished the nut.

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Hi Brent, it appears a lot of your photos are not displaying, do you still have them to update the thread?

 

[Brent H]

Hey @JohnH - I am just in the process of receiving a full set of oz32 collets that will allow me to get every endmill sharpened.

If you have specific interest (pics) let me know and I will repost. It will take a bit as all pics are off into other folders.

 

[TonyK]

Hey @JohnH - I am just in the process of receiving a full set of oz32 collets that will allow me to get every endmill sharpened.

If you have specific interest (pics) let me know and I will repost. It will take a bit as all pics are off into other folders.

John can you post a few pictures of the machine. I have a Cinci #2 and the darn thing is top heavy. It toppled over when I picked it up, lucky it fell towards the lawn and only bent one of the hand wheel shafts.

I grind all of my engine valves on it. Takes a bit to set up, but once there things go nicely. I may even have a manual, will have to look. I have a 600 Volt motor on it and use a roto phase to run it. Also has an Aux motor to turn the work holder. It is belt driven, but I cannot seem to find the leather belt it came with.


TonyK.

Grimsby Ontario Canada.

 

[Brent H]

@TonyK - I can link
You to the belt.

 

[TonyK]

@TonyK - I can link
You to the belt.

Please do. I have in the past used a car fan belt, but it is ugly. I would like to purchase a proper belt for it.

Thank you.


TonyK.

Grimsby Ontario Canada.

 

[JohnH]

Hey @JohnH - I am just in the process of receiving a full set of oz32 collets that will allow me to get every endmill sharpened.

If you have specific interest (pics) let me know and I will repost. It will take a bit as all pics are off into

Hi Brent, I won’t have the grinder in my possession for a few more weeks. My first priority will be to strip the whole machine down and inspect all the components. It is currently wired for 3 Phase but I only have single phase 240v so I will be re wiring the machine to run off a VFD. This will likely require the original motor to be replaced with a modern one that can be wired for 240 delta. Once I have it up and running I hope to sharpen end mills, lathe tools and do some cylindrical grinding.

 

[Brent H]

@JohnH : here is the listing for the belt. It is from ebay. They have increased $20 since I bought mine but it should be a one time only thing.

As far as the motor goes it should be 3/4 Hp 240 V I believe and I have just a small VFD for mine. I will check on that and get back to you with some additional pictures of the motor space.

 

[JohnH]

I think TonyK was after the belt.

My motor is hard wired 400/440 volt in star configuration. It’s cheaper to buy a new motor than to get a motor rewinder to chase the windings to get 240v delta.